WEBVTT - The Global Financial System Is Cracking, Here's Why | Preston Pysh 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.760 Preston piss needs no introduction. So of course, as always, 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:05.480 we get into some crazy talk before. So we were 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:07.080 talking about, let's just jump right in. I want to 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:08.760 talk to you about this global bond market. But we're 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.680 talking about money transmission, sending money overseas, and we're talking 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:18.520 about how do we want to talk about what asset? No? 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.079 I mean, I mean I'm talking about lightning and how 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:21.960 you know there's not. 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.840 Enough liquidity to send massive amounts of money through global settlement? 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.560 Yeah, yeah, I just when I look at Lightning and 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.040 I look at Layer one bitcoin and you just see 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.839 that it's a true free and open market. The demand 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.839 for Layer two right now is not at a point where, 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.320 you know, if I wanted to send five thousand dollars 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.239 worth of bitcoin on Layer two or ten thousand, you're 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.080 probably going to run into some limitations with that as 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.040 far as channel management unless you've opened like massive channels, 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.680 and we're obviously talking about if like somebody else was 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.520 managing the custody of those channels on your behalf. I 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.319 guess just not there from a capacity standpoint. But it's 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.760 also because the demand hasn't fully arrived. We're at the 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.920 infancy of that. So I just think it's something that's 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.000 going to naturally solve itself with enough time and enough 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.000 demand that starts popping up in the global South and 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.440 maybe resourcing to resourcing because of AI and micro payments, 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.400 like all that stuff is in my humble opinions coming. 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.160 And why do they even need that much liquidity? If 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:31.200 you want to send one hundred million dollars, just send 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:32.360 it on maintained. 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.040 Well, that's right. So like if it's a large amount, 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.839 like if you're settling on a house, like I'm sorry, 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:38.480 you're just never going to do that on layer two. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.120 You're going to do that on layer one? Why would 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:42.520 you want to Why would you want to want the security? 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:47.119 It's ten minute blocks, Like you're one hundred x better than. 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.320 Even if you're doing it at peak time like we 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:50.560 just had with the ordinal thing. What are you going 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.240 to pay one hundred bucks to settle it? 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:53.880 Yeah, not even or whatever. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:55.160 Yeah, it wouldn't even be that. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.120 It would be significantly lower than that. So I think 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:02.000 it's just for a lot of us, like we can 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.880 see kind of where this is all going, and we're 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.760 a little impatient because like, how how can't we just 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.160 be there right now, Why why isn't this happening? And 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.480 and then you get the whole uh, all the all 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.760 the things happening on the fringes of all these other 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.799 tokens that are saying, well, we do have the liquidity, right, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.560 but you don't have the security and you don't have 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.040 the decentralization, which therefore means you don't have the twenty 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.799 one million hard cap because you don't have those other 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:28.720 two things right. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:34.480 Right, and so especially Ethereum, Yeah, I mean, because they 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.040 they just decided to become ultrasound money. But the fact 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:42.280 that they changed it disproved that, Yeah, exactly. At least 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.440 at least XRP hasn't changed one hundred million tokens. I mean, 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.440 at least they haven't changed it yet yet, whereas Ethereum 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.080 they seem to change all the time. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.440 I agree. I mean, it doesn't have liquidity, but again, 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.120 why does it need to If you want to transfer 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:57.679 a large amount of money, you would think you would 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:58.960 want that to be immutable. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.600 Yeah, right now, where I think the debate on layer 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.800 two gets really interesting when you're thinking of it like 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.480 five years, ten years from now, is like, what's going 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.120 to be really dominant between like people that are just 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.480 outsourcing the custody and the channel management, or are people 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.080 actually going to want to do some of that on 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.760 their own. And I think that's up for debate. I 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.000 know when I'm using noster or you know, sending SATs 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.000 to a friend or whatever, and it's a small, like 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.440 micro size, like I'm sending somebody five cents worth of bitcoin. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:36.000 Like what I find myself doing, and I guess I'm 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.040 a little ashamed to say this as a bitcoiner is 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.280 like I open up wault of Satoshi because it just 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.520 works and it's simple and that like I'm not managing 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.120 the key. Somebody else is managing the keys, and like 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.440 if I've done it with one hundred dollars worth of 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.640 bitcoin and it's gone, I just load another hundred dollars 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.640 a bitcoin in there. Because the speed at which all 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.000 of their channels that they've opened through their node network 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.560 that they run is just it's just so turnkey. Yeah, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.640 and if I mess up or it gets compromised, like 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.320 the email that's associated with gets compromised, like it's one 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.560 hundred bucks whatever. Yeah, right, I'm curious that like five 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.000 years from now, is that how most people in the 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.320 world are wanting to use it, and if so, is 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.680 that an issue that is that a attack factor? Is 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.160 that a centralizing you know? 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.040 I don't think so. I was just outside with Gary 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.600 cardone grand card owns brother, and I mean, he's very 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.320 very smart, very blown away, but he's not at the 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.520 level that most people are. So, for example, I was 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.200 talking about wallets, meaning like that's the toasty wallet or whatever, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.280 and like he wasn't up to speed. So he's like, 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.520 I don't really understand this, and I was like, okay, Well, 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:43.360 he's like, you know, I don't want to. I don't 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:44.479 know if I trust a one. And I was like, so, 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.599 I like, I have this, like how much cash do 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.839 you carry around? A couple hundred bucks? He's like they're 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.000 probably more in that, but the point is you don't 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.600 carry more cash here than you'd want to lose exactly. 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:55.640 He's like, yes, maybe a thousand bucks. I'm like, yeah, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.360 if you lose a thousand bucks, nobod deal, right, So 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.480 that's what you'd carry here. To your point, if I 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.960 use a hosted solution and I lose it, like whatever, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.200 I keep the rest in cold storage, just like you 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.120 would with your bank and so you didn't get that. 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:09.800 And then I showed him like I opened up Venmo 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:10.880 and I was like, if I want to pay you 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.640 on Venmo, I would, and I did. I opened up 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.800 in mycet, I hit pay and it opens up to 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.280 scans and now you got to show me your QR 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.479 code and then I venmo cure and then I opened 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.160 up blue wallet. That's what I just used to get 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.600 Safety's new book downstairs. And open up blue wallet and 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.080 I shows how many SATs I have send and opens 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.200 up a thing to scan a QR code like it's 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.960 the exact same thing, and he got it. He didn't know. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.440 Is that easy? But to the point that you're making 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.520 you use that wall to care around a little bit 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.240 of money, whether you want to use on a hosted 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.520 solution or not. And I think the key piece here 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.920 is that you can choose the trade off that you want. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:44.919 That's the key piece, no doubt about it. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.360 And we want it to be a There's one thing 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.080 we all learned and pitcoin is like, I want to 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.599 free and open market. I don't want to dictate anything. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.040 I just want to make sure that if a person 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.080 wants to have the option to run their own note 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.400 and to manage their their champ that somehow, some way 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:06.960 that does not ever become from an engineering standpoint, removed 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:11.680 through some type of disincentive that I'm not thinking about today. 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.320 And so although I don't think that's going to be 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.000 the case in five years from now, that like a 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.119 wallet of Satoshi where they're a custodying the private keys 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.719 on layer two becomes this dominant thing and that the 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:24.719 other gets pushed away. I don't think that's going to 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:29.599 be the case. But I don't know that I've spent 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.240 enough mental rigor working through the game theory, working through 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.680 the engineering, working through the vulnerabilities, and like what might 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:38.920 pop out of it. So like I'll give you another 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.640 example of like a vulnerability that I'm thinking a lot 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:46.400 about is like on the inscription side, huge topic right now, right, 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:51.800 And so David Bailey, love him, wicked smart, right, He's 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.159 he's looking at everything that's happening on the inscription side 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.640 and he's saying, Hey, everybody that was doing all these 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.760 bs activities and he's like, in their activities on Ethereum 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.640 and like all these other chains, He's like, they're coming 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.000 the Bitcoin, right, He's like, but it's not a bad thing. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.080 And the reason it's not a bad thing is because 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.320 if they're not actually creating economic value, like, it'll only 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:12.960 persist for so long and then they're going to be 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.160 bankrupt because nobody they weren't, you know, like actually having 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.680 real customers. It was all just fake. And he's like, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.760 but it's utility. It's people coming here and using the network. 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.800 You might not agree with how they're using the network. 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.760 So like, that's his argument, right, and I agree with 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.640 all of that, But I also look at it from like, Okay, 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.280 so five years from now, is are these people going 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.160 to create some massive campaign to increase the block size 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.200 because they don't want the miners similar to like what 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.160 you saw on ethereum eating up all this value? And 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:48.040 so is there this Does this introduce kind of a 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.080 initiative that is going to bring back the whole argument 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:53.280 for large blocks? 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:53.960 I don't. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.400 I have no idea, but as somebody who's just trying 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.760 to assess risk, you know, in the future, where does 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:00.920 that go? 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:02.520 Well, a couple of things I'd say about that. So, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:07.080 first of all, unintended consequences in complex systems exactly, So 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.640 when they made the upgrade, they didn't think that this 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.680 would happen. Is the unintended consequence of that previous action, 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.800 which is why myself and I'm sure you, I know 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:18.680 Michael Saylor has been vocal about like let's just leave 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.800 it as it is, like let's bring the changes on 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.000 higher levels. So because unintended consequence. Yes, The other thing 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:25.840 I'd say about that is, of course anyone can change 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.120 the blocks as anytime they want, fork it, go ahead 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:29.960 and fork it right the market at the market choose. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.800 But when I was doing the news desk this morning 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:35.520 and with Pete Rizzo and we were kind of talking 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.120 about this, and he was saying that he also thinks 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.640 it's a good thing because it's actually taken away all 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.000 the other chain's main use case because their whole marketing 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.280 pitches Bitcoin is all technology. It can't do this stuff. Yes, 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:49.280 it just did. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:54.400 So that's David's point. And so like, I don't disagree 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.079 with David, but I'm as the engineer, like coming out, 0:08:58.080 --> 0:08:59.600 I was like, Okay, so what is it that we're 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.160 not thinking about? What's the unintended consequence of this? And 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.400 you know, in my opinion today and I get most 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.839 of this because Pierro shirt I value his intellectual engineering 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.280 opinions so much, and like he looked at me, He's like, 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:19.000 what's the emergency. Nothing's breaking. This is great for miners 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.120 as of right now. It's great for expanding the channel 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.640 capacity on layer two because now you saw all these 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.760 exchanges buying its coin coin base, like all these exchanges 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.600 that were like, yeah, cool story, but like, we're not 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.200 doing layer two now. Literally within a week they're like 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.360 all of a sudden doing Layer two stuff. And so 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.360 you know, we have to have that stress in order 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.240 to grow, that's right. So you've got to stress the system. 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.200 And then to your point, maybe we even have new 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.560 layer twos that pop up that have new you know, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.280 new things or whatever. And you did an interview with 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.360 Jason Laurie which I had reteated at one point. I 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:51.360 thought it was an amazing interview. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.520 And at the end of the interview, I think you'd 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.199 asked him if you could say something to lawmakers, what 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.840 would you say, And he said he said, I would 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.000 tell them that just because it says bit, just because 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:02.559 that's coin the name, doesn't mean it to be regulated 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.599 by financial industry, no more than Amazon's cloud should be 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.600 regulated by meteorologists. And while I don't know if I 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.920 agree with his entire thesis, I love the different angles 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.000 that he comes from. And part of it is I 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.720 think about and you have a Bitcoin the network, and 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.920 you have Bitcoin the asset BTC, and so if you 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.760 think about the network itself, so you have a global, permissionless, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:28.000 censorship resistant, immutable, decentralized network. And so then like what 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.600 could you do with that network? Right? And so this 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.360 Ordinals is showing us what you can do with the network. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.760 So certainly all new technologies, if you go to the 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.200 invention of electricity, the first killer application was a light bulb. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.520 That the first killer application was money, a digital asset. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:45.800 But what else could this network do? And so the 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.319 Ordinals are showing us So like for decades people have 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.600 risked their lives smuggling physical copies of Bibles into authoritarian regimes, 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:57.160 and now the King James Bible is on the bitcoin blockchain, right, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.760 three D gun schematics or whatever it is, and like 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.880 that just starts to make it seem way bigger. And 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:08.040 so while putting JPEGs on there seems stupid, you know, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.120 now your point is super profound. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.679 It is, and and so that's why you know like you, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.320 I'm just like, hey, let's just wait, like just calm 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.000 the calm down. Yeah right, Yeah, there's no emergency. The 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.640 building's not on fire. In fact, like we're seeing benefits 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.839 actually from the fees popping out for like literally incentivizing 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.920 growth in these other areas that we need to have 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:38.200 infrastructure and growth happening. And I think it's a little 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.000 bit uh, you have a lot of hubrists to think 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.760 you understand how any of that block space is going 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.199 to be used ten years from now or twenty years 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:46.880 from now. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.680 Like or to say who can use the block space? Amen? 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:51.920 I mean so now you can't use electricity, mind, but 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.760 you can usely Like now we're into that now. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.800 Well, so let me push back. So with all of 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.559 that said, there's an analogy I like to use here. Okay, 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.400 So chess, okay, right, So when you look at the 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:10.360 pawn's you got values on the pieces. The pawn's worth one, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.720 the bishop, the knight, it's worth three, the Rook's worth five, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:19.240 the Queen's worth nine, the king. The king's value is unlimited, right, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.680 because if you lose the king, the game is over. 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.439 You lost, right. So when I apply this to bitcoin, 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:31.599 I'm saying, what's the king, right, what's the pawn? And 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.880 why why would the king be unlimited value? 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:36.040 Right? 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:42.320 So so for me personally, for me personally, you know, 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.480 I served in the military, I lived in a combat zone. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.640 I was basically the proof of work minor of the 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:55.240 legacy system. Okay, serving right, Yeah, And I'm looking at 0:12:55.360 --> 0:13:00.400 what incentives that pop out of that legacy system, which 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:07.880 is you're not actually incentivizing exchange in a way that 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.520 can't be, that's not immutable that there's bad actors that 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.080 can step in, whether it's this country or that country. 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.600 I'm not going in that direction. But what I'm saying 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.960 is we have an opportunity to literally have a phase 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.800 transition for humanity for the very first time in human 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:32.040 history that incentivizees global cooperation. It's as profound as the 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.400 ATP as an acting currency between all the organs in 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:39.200 your body. That's what we're That is what bitcoin is 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.280 truly representing. And for me, that's the king. You can't 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:48.120 sacrifice that ever, no matter what, Like it's that profound 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:53.600 of an idea for an inscription, because now I don't 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.960 have to go to the Triple A office and like 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.319 get the rubber stamp from from Sally saying, yes, you 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.640 you went to this office and you were here at 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.920 twelve nineteen. And I don't even know what's on the document, 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.320 but you were here at twelve nineteen. Here's the stamp, right, 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.280 Like to me, that's the pawn or like that's a bishop, right, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.920 and like we cannot as a community, we cannot give 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.559 up the king on the board, which are in money. 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.200 What's giving up the king money? So you're saying if 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.840 these inscriptions were to crowd out money, so if they 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:25.040 became worth more than. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:26.760 We lost the game. 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:28.560 So let me let me, let me, let me let 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.200 me flip this a little bit, not flip, but let's 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.840 dig into that a minute. So as things evolve over time, 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.520 we expand our definitions of things. So for example, in 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:40.840 the eighties still and you know, up to the eighties 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.240 and into the nineties, even what would what do we 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:44.360 consider information? 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:46.680 So figure about just what information was? 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.960 Well, I read the morning newspaper from three people, I 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:50.440 have the three channels the night of the news, and 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.080 I guess there are some books in the library, right, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.280 that's information. Today. You have a kid in Indonesia post 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:56.800 a picture on Instagram, and I know what the waves 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.320 are like and what the weather's like. I said, what 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.239 type of trees are there? And so like information has expanded. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.720 When Karl Marx with the Communist Manifesto, he was mad. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.520 He don't want to be an attorney. He wanted to 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.720 be a philosopher. Nobody valued philosophy at the time, and 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.240 so what he wrote is that the poor have no capital. 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:12.160 All they have is their labor. 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.840 Well, today you can get capital by writing philosophy. So 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.800 like definition change. So back to money. We don't want 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:22.440 to lose money. It's the most important thing. But what 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.880 is money? Money communicates value, That's. 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:29.080 Right, it's the honest ledger, it's the community. So like 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.760 Claude Shannon, right, it's all about information theory of exchanging information. 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.360 So if I come and I do some work for you, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.240 and you want to pay me, like, nobody can corrupt 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.520 that communication of like what happened. 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.360 What if I want to provide my labor to you, 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.440 or I want to trade you this iPhone, or I 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.280 want to give you this book, or I want to 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.840 give you a three D guns comatic that could be 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.760 money as a medium of exchange. I can exchange this 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.240 item for that thing. And so if I'm putting three 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.400 D guns commatics on the blockchain, is that my I mean, 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.200 it communicates value and I don't know. This is like 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.560 we'll see what happens. But I understand what you're saying. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.080 Well, and I'm not even using that example. I'm not 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.440 saying that that's what it is doing. I'm just saying 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.200 we got to make sure on a long timescale, right, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.720 Like here, I'll give you an example. So like let's 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.560 say it's five years into the future and we have 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.840 people that are crowded like the FIAT system, right, they 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.239 can print as much of that stuff as they want, Yeah, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.040 which can act as an attack vector if if the 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.400 right person already was and maybe it already was, but 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.280 now they're just they're literally blowing out the mind pool 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.280 and like the fees are blowing out, and like you're 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.760 in this. I mean, it's a perpetual money machine that 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.000 has no limits, right, Like maybe there needs to be 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.680 something that that needs to be discussed, but like I 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.680 don't think people should even remotely entertain that until like 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.080 years from now that it's demonstrating like hey, this is 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.240 continually getting worse and it doesn't seem like there's and 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:01.960 I don't think this is what's going to happen, right, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.960 but if it did. But because I just have an 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.600 appreciation for my total lack of actually understanding what something 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.080 could look like that far out in the future, I'm 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.840 just saying that we have to always remember that first 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.080 and foremost, no matter what, it has to serve as money, right, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.920 And you can get into the intellectual debate on money 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.879 what money is, and you know, we'll leave that for Robert. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.600 Yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying. And so you know, 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.720 there's already things that prevent spamol and things like that, 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.880 and so again, but to your point, I would agree 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:37.919 at first, and I was a little bit guilty, and 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:39.320 you know, we kind of have to think about these things. 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.520 But at first I was like, oh, man, you know, 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.240 why do they make these changes? And this is undertend 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.119 the consequence, and we should think about these things. And 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:47.600 then you start getting too this kind of like knee 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.280 jerk reaction, and that's the problem because you realize I 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.000 could change it to stop this, but then what else 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.720 am I doing? And so we just don't know. 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.120 And I think Michael, you know, he talks a lot 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:03.159 about just like the first layer solidified, like just like, 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.600 let's go to layer two to what I mean. And 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:07.720 I think he's I think he's very right, you know, 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.760 if I was gonna put my my chips down on 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.280 like who's right, Like, I think he's right. Yeah, And 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.320 I think that it's just gonna the free and open market. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.679 If there's one thing bitcoins taught me is like, just 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.480 give it some time, and the free and open market 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.240 is going to figure out, like where what is value 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.080 and if it if it's an like in value or 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.119 if what the activity is isn't adding value to some 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.440 end user, Like, it's just going to naturally sort that out. 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.000 It might not be at the timeline that you like, 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:32.800 but it's going to. 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:33.199 Sort it out. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.119 It's going to figure out how to take care of it. 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:39.720 Yeah. I hadn't really planned on going down that rabbit hole. 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.160 But it was a fun conversation. I told you before, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.200 I was really enjoying the kind of the I don't know, 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.199 the thesis that you threw out in Wyoming when you 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.960 talked about like the bond market and how yeah it's shifting, 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.400 and then I heard you talk about it again somewhere 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.879 else I forget or so many places. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.239 I don't think people. I think most people they're so 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.240 detached from and so like when they look at and 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:03.600 just to. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.520 Tee this up. We have this global financial system that's 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.920 on the verge of teet around the brink of collapsing 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.360 around the world, not just in the United States. Obviously, 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.720 the bond marketing the States, which is the deepest globe, 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.000 you know, deepest market bond market in the world, is 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.440 teeter around. The banks are failing, but also globally we're 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.920 in the same situation. And so bonds have been money 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.240 or the main store of value. Yes, and so I 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.040 think that's kind of where you would build this. So 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.200