1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and um Julie Witchy Pooh 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: Douglas one of my favorite witches witch which who was 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Witchy Pooch. She was like one of those cartoon witches 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: and she, you know, she had like the iconic like 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: green face and the long nose and the mole and 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: she was always making potions, just kind of like a 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: kindly witch. Okay, yeah, well that's good. I like that 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: the interpretation. I like that at that variegation of the 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: witch we're talking about, which is, of course, because this 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: is the week of Halloween, so we thought what better 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: time than to roll out a couple of our favorite 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: spooky episodes and uh and this one's one of them. 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: This one deals with you've You've got everything in this story, 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: which is psychedelic lubricants, rooms. What more could you want? Right? 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: So we hope that you enjoy the Halloween je What 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: do you like to put in your witches? Brute? A 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: little a little frog play, rosemary, yeah, rusty garlic, yeah 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: of course, um, little crystallized ginger, nice touch. Yeah, I 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: highly recommend um scale of dragon to the wolf which 22 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: is mummy man, gulf off the raven c salt shark, 23 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: root of himlock digged in the dark of course, liver 24 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: of a blaspheming jew if you can get it, uh, 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: and goll of goat slips of you. And of course 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: you want all the silver in the moon's eclipse. That's 27 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: just an old recipe that I picked up. You're such 28 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: a purist, picked up from old will there. But yeah, 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: I just get myself from Trader Joe's and you're all 30 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: of the earth the witches. I'll a Trader Joe's is 31 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: really good. I mean everything from your scale of dragon 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: to uh, you know, the eye of Newt and Baboon's blood. Yeah, 33 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: they have excellent pepoon's blood. You know this. This is 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: what I love about how stuff works is that we 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: can discuss these things. We've got our own coven here 36 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: and it really allows us to exchange ideas about witchcraft. 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: There's a coven at how stuff works. Yeah, like seriously 38 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: or like literally, there's a covenant how stuff works? Or 39 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: are you just talking about we throw ideas into a 40 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: call drof? Oh no, yeah, sure, it was just metaphorical yeah, sure, 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: of course, there's not a real coven. That would be weird. No, no, no, 42 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: it's metaphorical. Alright, well really well, I would I would 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: imagine you're you. You must be meeting in a separate space, because, 44 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: as we know from legends and myth and folk tales, 45 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: the classic version of the witch, and and by the 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: classic version of which I'm not craning this in on 47 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: on on Wiccan stuff, like a modern witches, of of 48 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: whom I know some of My friend Michelle is a 49 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: practicing Wiccan. And to my knowledge, you just don't have 50 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: a cauldron. No, no, Today we're talking about the witches 51 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: that are burned in our memories. And sometimes it's yes, 52 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: um who yeah, who have cauldron? Who are meeting in 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: the dark, who are plotting against Macbeth, that are casting spells, 54 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: that are hanging out with cats that hate Dorothy, that 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: hate Dorothy, that are dying underneath the weight of houses 56 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: that fall from the sky. Uh. This sort of thing, 57 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: the idea of the witch, is pretty fascinating, especially when 58 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: you get past sort of the the the typical Halloween 59 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: idea of just cackling old crones. I mean, you could 60 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: we could just talk for a long time about the 61 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: about about what the Witch represents, because as I've discussed before, 62 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: I mean, the Witch is basically a monster, the hag, 63 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: the hag, especially if you see the Hag as a 64 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: monster or the ogress, uh, appearing throughout different myth cycles 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: where uh, and some of this is tied to the 66 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: idea that some sort of cannibalistic, grotesque old woman will 67 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: come and eat your children if they don't behave, or 68 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: that if you're not careful, guys, you might be seduced 69 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: by what seems like a beautiful woman but turns out 70 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: to be a grotesque monster, right then sort of the 71 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: sucky best thing too, exactly exactly. And then when you 72 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean you also in the Witch you have a 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: situation where it's a woman with power, and of course 74 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: that is a very interesting idea throughout a predominantly male 75 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: dominated culture where suddenly here, here are women and they 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: have power. And what does his power mean? Is it 77 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: a threat to male dominance? And uh, I mean, I 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: mean make me stop, because well, I was gonna say that. 79 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: Erica John has at interesting perspective on this from historical context, 80 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: and she has a book called Witchcraft and some poetry 81 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: and fiction and some historical data in their few spells 82 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: in that I don't know, I hope. So I think 83 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: that she actually sort of approached this book in that 84 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: manner of like, Wow, could I become a witch myself? 85 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: Even though, um, she's someone who I think is grounded 86 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: in reality and knows that she wasn't necessarily going to 87 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: start flying around. But anyway, Um, she is the author 88 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: of fear Flying. That's what she's best known of. As 89 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: in her forward of the book, she says, witchcraft in 90 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: Europe and America is essentially this harkening back to female 91 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: divinity within a patriarchal culture. If you insist long enough 92 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: that God is the father, a nostalgia for the mother 93 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: goddess will be born. If you exclude women from church rights, 94 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: they will practice their magic in the fields and forests, 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: in their own kitchens. The point is female power cannot 96 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: be suppressed, It can only be driven underground. So this 97 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: is how she places which is really in a historical 98 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: sense of Okay, what's actually happening here when we talk 99 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: about which is when we get away from this idea 100 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: of pointy hats and broomsticks. Even though broomsticks certainly planned 101 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: to it as we will find out. Yeah, and it's 102 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: interesting that you mentioned the the necessary re emergence of 103 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: the feminine deity because I'm reminded of a series of 104 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: essays that I read, and have I known that you 105 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: were going to go in this direction, I would have 106 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: would have brought that book with me off to put 107 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: something on the blocks about it. But there's some interesting 108 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: material in there about depictions of Jesus Christ in medieval art, 109 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: and in some of these depictions, Christ becomes more and 110 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: more feminine, and you you actually have have varying in 111 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: some cases outright heretical. And I'm doing quotes with air quotes, 112 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: and I finker, is there heretical ideas or sometimes they're 113 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: just sort of quasi heretical, where individuals end up worshiping 114 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: a more female version of Christ in the same way 115 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: that there are female depictions of the Buddha. Okay, so 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: this is sort of a uh an effort to unify 117 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: right right and bring both sides to this right, and 118 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: to focus more on feminine aspects in this case of 119 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: of Jesus and then to venerate those aspects as opposed 120 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: to just bleeding man God on a tree kind of 121 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: a thing. It's a really fascinating accept because you get 122 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: into this whole interesting area of the wound of Christ, 123 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: the spear wound, and how this spear wound is also 124 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: kind of like a vagina. I mean, it's sorry, I'm 125 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: gonna be strong. That's not a big deal. Yeah, the 126 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: wound is like vagina. Yeah, next time you see an 127 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: image of doubting Thomas, think about that. Um. But moving 128 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: on side tangent there, But back to which is um 129 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: you were saying? Yeah, Erica doing that, she does. She 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: does explore the reasons why we have vilified, which is 131 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: throughout the ages, and one of the things that she 132 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: says really interesting is that women have always been the 133 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: bearers of life right, and we know historically women have 134 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: been repressed on all sorts of different fronts. She also 135 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: says that as women gain power, they began to um 136 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: to sort of be tamped down. And if you ascribe 137 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: witchness to someone, or you put power in the light 138 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: of negativity, then what you're doing essentially is saying that 139 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: not only is this person a life bringer, a life bear, 140 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: which is really powerful, but this person has the ability 141 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: to bring death right through potions, magic, uh general dark shenanigans, 142 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: right yeah, and if they're engaged in food preparation too. 143 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: I mean that's food can be the big life giver. 144 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: But if it's if something's wrong with it, that if 145 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: it becomes toxic in some way, shape or form, if 146 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: something goes off, there's some sort of bacterial, uh infection, 147 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: then it's a killer as well. That's right. That's why 148 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: you should always be kind to your server. Right. You 149 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: never know what's going on in the kitchen. She might 150 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: be a witch. Yep, she might be a witch, or 151 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: he might be right, yeah, a warlock. So it's gonna 152 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: sound flipped to say this, but but all of a sudden, 153 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: you've you've got something like a broom, which is becomes 154 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: really important, almost like a very high tech object in 155 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: the thirteenth century, right, which is interesting because I think 156 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: the broom is something we often discount as that very 157 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: Halloween idea of a witch. Like you've got a you know, 158 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: there's like a kindergartener. Let's put a funny nose on her, 159 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: paying her face screen, give her a broom, and she 160 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: can start collecting candy, right, striped tights. Right there we go. 161 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: But I mean it is important to understand that this 162 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: really was a prized object at the home. When we 163 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: talk about the kitchen and who's preparing your food, we're 164 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: also talking about the person who has you know, usually 165 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: elaborately braided broom, a cauldron, right that may have been 166 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: passed down from generation to generation, and these objects start 167 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:12,479 Speaker 1: to really gain importance that they are key feminine cultural artifacts. Yeah. Absolutely, 168 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: And so when you start to think about a witch, 169 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: you start to think about brooms. It would make sense 170 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: that somehow they would factor into the image of a witch. 171 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: But now you'll look at early typographs of which is 172 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: and you'll often see some depictions of which is uh, 173 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: quite naked on top of a stride, exceedingly naked. And 174 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: that's another thing that will Shakespeare. Um, well, no, I 175 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: don't know if they were naked, and that there was 176 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: any reference to the naked in the text. I'm thinking 177 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: of Roman Polanski's version of Matbeth, which is certainly naked, 178 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: which is awesome and uh and has some really naked 179 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: old witches and which I thought worked perfectly. But back 180 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: to these old engravings and woodcuts where you see naked 181 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: women flying around in the middle of the night talking 182 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: with goats, riding goat, um, you know, in engaging with 183 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: the devil and in various way shapes and form right 184 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: in terms of there's something to this right where if 185 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: you scratch the surface a little bit, you'll find out 186 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: that the broom actually figures pretty prominently and in which 187 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: is work. And let's just back up real quick. Um, yes, 188 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: the broom is the ultimate symbol of domesticity, but in 189 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: the hands of which it can become this really potent 190 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: symbol of liberation. Right, And the more disenfranchised a person is, 191 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: the more that they might turn to magical thinking to 192 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: gain some sort of mastery over their situations. So let's 193 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: look at it this way. Um. You know, maybe someone 194 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a self proclaimed which, but perhaps they did 195 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: uh dabble back of the day, you know, when we're 196 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: talking about this historical which in the thirteenth century in 197 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: ointments because it was important for healing in ritual and 198 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: magical spells, because this was a way to gain some 199 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: sort of control over their lives. Right, But back to 200 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: this broom. Yeah, there's kind of like two arresting ways 201 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: of looking at the power of the broom, one which 202 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: will discuss even more as of course, the magical thinking 203 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: side of it. And then there's this whole ointment situation ointment, 204 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: which you think is a gross word, but I do. 205 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: And then and now we're about to really sort of 206 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: dive into the flying ointment here and talk about something 207 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: that's very interesting about the broom in the ointment. You 208 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: want to you want to run with that, Okay, So 209 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: there's this idea that which is they're flying around in 210 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: broomsticks or they're flying around in a chair, but in 211 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: many of these tails and accusations, they are rubbing an 212 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: ointment on the broom or chair first, which it's often 213 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: glossed over generally when you it's not a part of 214 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: the Halloween costume. Um usually on a jar of ointment, 215 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: excepting the costume. So they're taking this broom they're coating 216 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: it with with some sort of mysterious ointment that they've 217 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: brewed up, and then they're riding this this broomstick naked 218 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: and just having a wonderful time doing it. So, I mean, 219 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: obviously that brings to mind some some various scenarios that 220 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: could be taking place, and there's actually some real um 221 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: some people put some real thought into this, and the 222 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: idea that the ointment is in fact a drug or 223 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: has has a pharmaceutical or or or psychedelic properties and 224 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: they are interacting with the ointment on the broom Yeah, 225 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: there are some pharmacologists who say, you know what, we 226 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: think that this is actually what was happening, is that 227 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: these ointments were being made and applied um through the skin, 228 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: basically applying a crazy pharmaceutical ointment to the genitals with 229 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: a broomstick. Yes, yes, they probably said that on the 230 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: side applied gently to broomstick, then ride broomstick genitals first 231 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: and gothic font And this is from the investigation of 232 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: Lady Alice Kepler in she was one of the first 233 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: women to be accused of witchcraft in Ireland. We have 234 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: this account quote in rifling the closet of a lady, 235 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: they found a pipe of ointment, wherewith she greased a 236 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: staff upon which she ambled and galloped through thick and thin. Okay, 237 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: these are actual documents that they're pulling some some of 238 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: this stuff from, and not that we put tremendous amount 239 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: of stock in the prosecutions materials in witchcraft trials. I 240 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: mean they're no. Take that with a whole lot of salt. 241 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: But who knows, like the idea that there could be 242 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: some shruded truth to this is fascinating. Okay, dig a 243 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: little deeper. And this is from the Journal of the 244 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: American Society of Anesthesiologists and a paper they called the 245 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: Legacy of a Tropos the fate who cut the thread 246 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: of Life, which I think is really poetic for for 247 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: a journal um. In the paper they describe a tone 248 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: written by sixteenth century Dutch physician Johan we Are, who 249 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: concluded that a plant called henbane was a principal ingredient 250 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: in which is through along with deadly nightshade and man drake, 251 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: and according to where there were other ointments, but the 252 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: essential ingredients remained the same in all of them, in 253 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: all the preparations. When they applied to the upper thighs 254 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: or general thills, it was said to induce the sensation 255 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: of rising into the air and flying. And by the way, 256 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: by applying this to their skin and rather than taking 257 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: it orallyy it was much more effective because then they 258 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: didn't have to digest this and have obviously the sort 259 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: of stomach ailments that would accompany that. Right, So at 260 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: some point they figured out that hey, this is this 261 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: is a pretty good way to get high. Well, it 262 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: kind of it's similar in a way to the way 263 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: some medications are applied via suppository rather than taken orally. Yeah. 264 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: And one of the dangerous with suppositories if you're taking 265 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: some sort of illicit substances, of course, that you can't 266 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: if you take to take it orally, you can get 267 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: you can become ill and vomited back up. But suppository 268 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: not so much. Yeah. And the people that were studying 269 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: in these appointments, they weren't necessarily thinking that that which 270 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: is at that time we're applying them and then actually 271 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: you know, taking flight. They understood this to have hallucinatory properties. 272 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: Back in the sixteenth century, Francis Bacon even said the 273 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: witches themselves are imaginative. Believe oftentimes they do that which 274 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: they do, not transforming themselves into other bodies, not by 275 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: incantations or ceremonies, but by ointments and anointing themselves all over. 276 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: So they had sort of an inkling there that yes, 277 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: they were transcending the experience, but not in physical body, 278 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: not actually where they get together and have transcendental experiences 279 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: and not invite them in folk I know. Um. And 280 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: this is interesting to the use of soot, which is 281 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: sort of alkaline would have enhanced the passage of organic 282 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: basis because a weak alkaline environment would be sufficient to 283 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: neutralize the positive ironic charge. This is again from that 284 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: um and it's thesiolist journal. Uh. This is an effective 285 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: ethnobotanical technique that may be seen with Peruvian cocoa tours 286 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: who mix in their mouth the cocaine containing leaves with 287 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: alkaline centers to enhance uptake. And this is and this 288 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: is interesting and a topic will probably go into in 289 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: greater detail in a future podcast. But this is by 290 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: far not the only, would not be the only situation 291 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: of individuals taking uh, some sort of psychedelic substance as 292 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: part of a ritual or or magical practice. Right, and 293 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: you actually don't you have an article on licking frogs 294 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: or am I thinking of something else? I have a pamphlet. 295 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: It was handed to me on a by a guy 296 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: in the train, but I've I've been very trepidicious about 297 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: trying it out. There's some hallucinatory frogs that if you've looked, 298 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: actually I think it's maybe the the the vom or 299 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: something that they have that people can actually get high. 300 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: So obviously, through trial and error, over thousands of thousands 301 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: of years people have figured out different properties and plants 302 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: and animals and manipulated them. So it's not weird that 303 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: someone would come up with an ointment. And it's not 304 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: weird that this person, the female and the family would 305 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: um be the person to come up with these ointments, 306 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: are mostly healing right and have a sort of power 307 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: in their household, maybe even in their village, as the 308 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,479 Speaker 1: go to person that has all these great little recipes 309 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: that can make you feel a lot better, possibly make 310 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: you feel as though you are writing a broom. And 311 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: let's also talk about that broom. I hate to sort 312 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: of bring it up, but again, you know, why not 313 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: just apointment? Why have the broom? And I'm just going 314 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: to point out that this perhaps was a a proto 315 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: sexual aid, So I'm gonna say old timey sex toy basically, yeah, 316 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: now and uh, And I wonder if too, have like 317 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: a going back vote from the from the side of 318 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: of women, liberated women engaging in a certain activity and 319 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: looking instead at um, really grumpy men deciding to crack 320 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: down on this and persecute women. Um. I wonder how 321 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: much with the broom too, there's this idea of you 322 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: have defiled. And not only have you defiled yourself and 323 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: your and your faith and all, but you've also defiled 324 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: this object which has um sympathetic and not sympathetic, oh yeah, 325 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: sympathetic importance in the household and in the family and 326 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: uh and also is a symbol of the status. And 327 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: you've somehow perverted this artifact. Well. Also, as we know, um, 328 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: the understanding of female sexuality certainly wasn't that complex or 329 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: nuanced back in the day, and some would argue that 330 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: today it's still Yeah, we just did the podcast. I've 331 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: been dealt with the female orgasm. Obviously, we still scientists 332 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: are still figuring out exactly what sexually human sexuality and 333 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: female sexuality is all about. Yeah, And so for a 334 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: woman to express sexuality, certainly during uh one period over another, 335 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: depending on what was happening when the thirteenth century is 336 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: opposed to the sixteenth century, Uh, they were certainly um 337 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: iconic images and ideals to live up to. Yeah, I'll 338 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: put it that way, right, So we discussed the ointment 339 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: based importance of flying around on broomsticks and so forth. 340 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: But after this break, we're gonna really get into the 341 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: idea of magical thinking and how that enforces all these 342 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: things we were talking about. All right, so we're back. Yeah, 343 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: we solved the broomstick problem here. Yeah, and I want 344 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: to add one more thing about the broomstick. I couldn't 345 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: help but be reminded of the Bobby the Babba yaga, 346 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, the old Russian hag or witch or cannibalistic ogress, uh, 347 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, with the tusks for for teeth. Yeah, she 348 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: also shows up in uh, there's a movie called Jack 349 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: Frost which mry sents theater three thousand dead years ago, 350 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: and it has the Bobby Yaga in it. So she's 351 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: a really iconic character in Russian myth um. And she's 352 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: the witch. And she in addition to living in a 353 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: hut that walks around on hin legs, she also flies 354 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: through the air, sometimes in an iron kettle and sometimes 355 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: in a mortar and pestle, which of course is the 356 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, the the device for crushing up various herbs 357 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: and what have you and making them into powders for 358 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: use in ointments, for use in uh you know, and 359 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: you go to the pharmacist today and I mean that's 360 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: the symbol of the craft. Yeah, And here are these 361 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: these symbols of domesticity, right, that that are being harnessed 362 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: for for powerful goings on with witches, which I think 363 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: is really interesting and really plays into this idea of 364 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: the law of contagion, which is one of the two 365 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: laws of sympathetic magic. Ya. Sympathetic magic is this very 366 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: old idea, the idea that if something I think we've 367 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: discussed this before. Okay, so I have a rubber dinosaur 368 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: in my hand, all right, it's true, and I have 369 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: touched this rubber dinosaur, right, and in touching it, I'm 370 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: probably doing nothing more than getting some of my my 371 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: skin oil on it or my fingerprints what have you ink? 372 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: From my hands? My hands are really disgusting. But but then, 373 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: but then when I when I set it down, the 374 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: taint of my touch, that that will be the extent 375 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: of it. The idea of sympathetic magic is so that 376 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: there's a there's an even greater taint that is applied 377 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: to this rubber dinosaur, and that that I have somehow 378 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: imbued it with a sense of myself. You've transferred yourself 379 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: to this object. Yeah, And we continue to do this 380 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: sort of thing today, I mean, just dealing with my 381 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: own stuff I'm wearing my dad's watch that he died in. 382 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: I'm not a logical believer in sympathetic magic, but I 383 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: am sympathetic towards this object, and I have to a 384 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: certain extent imbuted it with a sense of him on 385 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: some level, you know. So, I mean we all do 386 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: this kind of thing every day. Yeah, And we talked 387 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: about this a little bit in the Science of Lucky Pants, 388 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 1: and you know how we ascribe meaning to things, and 389 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: we think, if if I do this, or if I 390 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: take this, then you know something will happen. Or in 391 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: the case of your father's watch, I mean, that's that 392 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: is for you, a part of him. So it's interesting 393 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: that we're all sort of hardwired to to have this 394 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: sort of symbolism in our lives, right, And I should 395 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: mention I explained the watch. I didn't explain why I 396 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: have a rubber dinosaur in my hand. And it's a 397 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: like a squeeze toy that I used to keep from 398 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: fidgeting too much while recording a podcast. Just to explain that, 399 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: why why I have a rubber dinosaur on my person? 400 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: It's true, he squeezes the heck out of it, and 401 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: that's fine, right, Another idea that arises from from sympathetic 402 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: magic is like the idea that you can treat a 403 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: weapon to treat the wound or somehow like if you 404 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: were to say, cut somebody with a knife, and then 405 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: you were to heat up that knife, then the person 406 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: would feel the burning of the wound. Things of that nature, 407 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: things that almost what we would have what a modern 408 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: um mind would think of as like a quantum entanglement 409 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: exists within the confines of sympathetic magic. Um. You know, 410 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: things objects becoming tainted, objects becoming haunted, objects made holy 411 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: through contact with you know, really important people. The whole. 412 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: I will never wash this hand again because hand is 413 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: come into contact with Brad Pitt's face or something. Well, 414 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: and and if I believed in voodoo or sorcery like that, 415 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: I would probably take care to deposit my fingernail clippings 416 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: in a way which I didn't want someone else to 417 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: get them, right to hiding clippings, hide your hair, because 418 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: these are parts of you. Well, these are even more 419 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: like this is an even easier thing to buy, I think, 420 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: because these were actually a part of me. These things 421 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: were once my body and now they are, you know, 422 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: hidden away in the wall of the house, lest a 423 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: sorcerer get ahold of it, use it to place a 424 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: curse on me, which make a nail clipping sculpture of 425 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: me and then drive pins into me exactly. That's my fear, 426 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: um and can only take ninety years with nail clippings 427 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: and real quick. Another another idea this side of you 428 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: mentioned voodoo, and of course that instantly brings the mind 429 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: the idea of the voodoo doll and uh. And you 430 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: see variations on this theme in numerous magical um and 431 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: religious practices where you have a semblance of something and 432 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: if I like, I can hurt the doll to hurt 433 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: the person that the doll resembles, or if I burn 434 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: somebody in effigy, I am And you know this is 435 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: something you see and everything guy Fox day to uh 436 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: to burning man. You know where an effigy is burned, 437 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: and by burning the effigy, you're on some level hurting 438 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: the person or the idea or feeling or thing that 439 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: it represents. We see this and flipp colw rallies all 440 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah. Yeah, And this comes down to something 441 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: called the law of similarity, which holds that humans inevitably 442 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: link superficial real life resemblances to deep unreal resemblances. Okay, 443 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: So I think about this in terms of the ted 444 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: dot com talk that you sent meets by skeptic Michael Schermer, 445 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: and he was talking about, uh, he's using examples of 446 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: how we can't help you describe meeting or see patterns. 447 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: And he brought up the case of the Virgin Mary 448 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: visage on the grilled cheese. The Virgin Mary grilled cheese. Yeah, 449 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: and he was saying that, you know, we've got this 450 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: really sort of grainy pattern recognition in our brains, and 451 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: so we really respond well to, like, you know, an 452 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: image on tree bark or a burnt girl cheese sandwich. 453 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, some of those grainy markings start 454 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: to take form into an image. And I thought, well, 455 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: that's really fascinating it, particularly when he pointed out that 456 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: if you really look at that grilled cheese sandwich, it 457 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: looks more like Jane Russell it does the version Mary, 458 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: because she's got very potty lips. Well, it's I mean, 459 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: it comes down to the same reason we can just 460 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: stare up into the sky the clouds and just see 461 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: one object after another. Oh, it's a it's a dragon 462 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: using a typewriter, it's Lauren Hardy making out on a steamboat. 463 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: You know that kind of thing. Yeah, except for that 464 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: last part. Well, I'm just saying you see random things 465 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: that they or may not make sense in the clouds. Alright, alright, yeah, 466 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: I mean it is. It depends on the perceiver, right. 467 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: And we talked about this a little bit in Science 468 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: of Lucky Pants, that some people may be more hardwired 469 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: than others to see connections. In a Sandra hu Shoop 470 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: Share article about the dopamine connection, neurobiologists Peter Breuger found 471 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: that people with high levels of dopamine are more likely 472 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: to find significance and coincidences and pick out meaning and 473 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: patterns where there are none. In one trial in which 474 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: skeptics and paranormal believers were both given the drug al dopa, 475 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: of course, I know it sounds like a street al 476 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: dopa increases dopamine levels in the brain, the skeptics began 477 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: to perform much more like the believers. You sent me 478 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: an interesting paper to discuss some of the ideas about 479 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,239 Speaker 1: like what, how, why ritual is important? Like what is it? 480 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: What is it accomplished? And when we say ritual, I mean, 481 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: in one hand, we could be talking about which is 482 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: going out into the middle of nowhere on the Sabbath 483 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: and uh and gathering together for dance or whatever. You 484 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: could be just talking about a local church coming together 485 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: and engaging in song, just like a glee club engaging 486 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: in song. You know, different communal activities, a community service 487 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: group coming together and picking up trash around a neighborhood. 488 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: Like I mean, that kind of thing can under certain definitions, 489 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: be seen as ritual. Yeah, yeah, Actually, uh, they're saying 490 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: that these synchrony rituals are really powerful, and so much 491 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: so that they may have endowed certain groups with a 492 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: competitive advantage over the eon, perhaps even causing some cultures 493 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: to flourish while others parish. That's from the article Uh 494 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: that I thought, well that that makes sense why we 495 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: would have these rituals that we participate in. And in 496 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: that article they even uh brought up the observation that 497 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: in modern day military things like um marching in formation 498 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: or muscular bonding, right, muscular bonding, Yeah, and even chanting 499 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: or the songs. I don't know what I've been told. Yeah, 500 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: that's the name of that one, right, Yeah, I don't 501 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: know what I've been told. Yeah, and I don't know 502 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: the rest, um well, the rest varies depending on who's 503 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: singing it. I think, yeah, something about Mama's and boots. Yeah, yeah, 504 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: I don't know. Clearly, I have a vast knowledge of 505 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: military uh songs, but any In any case, what they 506 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: were saying is that, you know, we still engage in 507 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: these rituals, even the warfare is not conducted in you know, 508 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: here's one side in a formation of rows against another 509 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: formation of rows that meet on a hilltop. Right, that 510 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: old school version of a very regimented forces meeting on 511 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: a battlefield and marching into place, basically playing out like 512 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: a table top game that just that does not exist anymore, 513 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: hasn't existed in a while. But a lot of these 514 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: these activities still exist because it builds this bond, and 515 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: it builds this uh, this cohesive feeling that we are 516 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: we are one. You know. It's I mean, it's like 517 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: that the idea you see in every boot camp movie 518 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: ever that these guys enterest this rag tag group of 519 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: miscreants and then they in the over the course of 520 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: the boot camp, they become a fighting force together. They 521 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: become brothers. That's right. Yeah, I mean yet through the experience, uh, 522 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: they are are They're transformed into the super group, right. 523 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: So I think that's interesting, particularly in the context of 524 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: magical thinking. And this was from an article Do you 525 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: Believe in Magic? And it was saying that that um 526 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: rituals and magical thinking give us a margin of control 527 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: over the randomness in our lives. UM. This is from 528 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: the article. It says magical thinking is most evident precisely 529 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: when people feel most helpless. Geo Canon, professor at Tel 530 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: Aviv University, sent questionnaires to one hundred and seventy four 531 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: Israelis after the Iraqi SCUD missile attacks. Of those who 532 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: reported the highest level of stress were also the most 533 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: likely to endorse magical beliefs, Like I have the feeling 534 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: that the chances of being hit during a missile attack 535 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: are greater if a person whose house was attacked is 536 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: present in the sealed room, or to be on the 537 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: safe side, it is best to step into the field 538 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: room right foot first. Yeah. And I think sometimes it 539 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: can come down to your your face with overwhelming odds 540 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: or some sort of situation that you just cannot control, 541 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: and it comes down to what can I do. I 542 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: can't actually stop this thing. Take the instance of death. 543 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: When death comes, there's like nothing you can do to 544 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: bring that person back. But you can go and pray 545 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: about it, you can go and light a candle about it, 546 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: you can go and engage in various rituals, even if 547 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: that ritual is just something as simple as like a 548 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: meditation type of thing, and it's something you can do. 549 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: And so there's this feeling of I am doing something 550 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: in the face of this uncontrollable force in my life. Well, 551 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: and it's a it's been brought up before to that 552 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: ritual healing practices aren't too far away from like the 553 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: plus ebo effect, right right, Yeah, Like if you if 554 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: you engage in this thing, you take the sugar pills, 555 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, your body is going to 556 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: respond as if it's actually being treated very much the 557 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: same in a ritual scenario. Another idea that came across 558 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: one of the links you sent me, and this comes 559 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: from Stanford University psychologist and graduate students Scott S. Biltmouth, 560 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: And the idea is that all this, you know, this synchronicity, 561 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: this this movement and sound in a communal ritual um 562 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: it really comes down to economic benefit, with the primary 563 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: goal of of being to spot the freeloader, yes, to 564 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: ferret out the person who's not really contributing really right, Right, 565 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, all right, we're all going 566 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: to do a big giant quare dance, and you can 567 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: tell that the guy who's totally not into it is 568 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: totally not into being a part of the group, and 569 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: therefore you can't you can't trust him as much him 570 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: or her. You can't trust them, you can't rely on them, 571 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: you know that in the end, or you can suspect 572 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: in the end they're going to be looking out for 573 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: number one rather than the whole group. They're not entering 574 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: into the social contract. So I think it's fascinating, right, 575 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean, is this just particularly uh important back in 576 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: the days you know, obviously when uh people got together 577 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: in a more I don't know, how would you say 578 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: it's just a more formal way or more intentional way, right, 579 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: Because if you lived two miles five miles from another family, 580 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: then you really had to make a concerted effort to 581 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,959 Speaker 1: get together socially. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot 582 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: of us have been in situations where there's like some 583 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: sort of a group activity that's happening with work, and 584 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: you maybe don't really want to go to it, or 585 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: you've got other things that need to be done, but 586 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: you feel like you should. And and part of that 587 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: is because, yeah, it's like the people who don't show up, 588 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: or the people who show up and are really obviously 589 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: not into it. Can they be trusted? Are they really 590 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: a part of the group or they are they freeloaders? Well, 591 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: and then also they're kind of wearing a little bit 592 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: of jerk perfume. You know, you don't want to look 593 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: like a jerk. Okay, So back to Erica jong Um again. 594 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: She talked about this in her ForWord that ritual intention 595 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: counts for everything. It must be positive. And the more 596 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: witches there are sitting in a circle practicing communal intention, 597 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: the more potency the magic will have. Okay, So that's 598 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: the other part of it, right, Like if you participate, 599 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: if not that person is not participating, then they're weakening 600 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: what the group effort is. The desire for magic cannot 601 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: be eradicated. Even the most supposedly rational people attempt to 602 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: practice magic. In love and war, we simultaneously possessed the 603 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: most primitive of brain stems, and the most sophisticated of 604 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: cortex is the imperatives of each coexist uneasily. That reminds 605 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: me a little bit of this bit that I ran 606 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: across in this book The False Myth, Religion and the 607 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: Rise of Representation by David Hawkes, And he points out 608 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: that magical thinking first and foremost. It makes perfect sense 609 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: in to borrow a phrase from William Manchester, a world 610 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: lit only by fire. If you live in a world 611 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: with a lot of a lot of magical beliefs, it 612 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: pays to believe in magic, because that is the currency 613 00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: um all right. But by the eighteenth century most un 614 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: Europeans are convinced that magic doesn't exist anymore. And and 615 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: you see which witches and wizards and warlocks. You see 616 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: them prosecuted not as a blaspheming monsters or dangerous idea dealers, 617 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: but rather as charlatan's and frauds, especially in the colonies. 618 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: And then m Hawks points out, and I'm going to 619 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: read a quotation here, he says, by the end of 620 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, however, this process of enlightenment had been 621 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: subjected to such cogent philosophical and political critiques that few 622 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: people would endorse it unequivocally. We are much more conscious 623 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: than our forebears of the complicity between reason and magic. Uh. 624 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: And many would argue that the postmodern era, with its 625 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: virtual reality, its faith in the image, it's electronic money, 626 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: it's new age religions, is witnessing a return to the 627 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: kinds of overtly magical thinking that imperialism unsuccessfully tried to 628 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: stomp out in the Southern hemisphere, which I found really 629 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: interesting because indeed there are all these like electronic money, 630 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: is this on a real thing? I mean, the internet 631 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: itself is kind of this. You know, where is the internet? Right? Well, 632 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: I guess it depends quite a bit on our ability 633 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: to think magically, right, to think metaphorically. So perhaps that's 634 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: the reason why it hasn't been done away with by evolution, right, 635 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: because there are some people who say, why why do 636 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: we even have magical thinking anymore? When we have the ability, 637 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: even as tiny babies too innately understand physics or math 638 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: or language and what is real and what is not real. Um. 639 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,959 Speaker 1: You know, kids by the age of six or seven 640 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: have a really great idea of what is real and 641 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: usually uh, let you know, Santa Claus or Easter Bunny 642 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: or anything else. So all those miss fall away. That 643 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: being said, why do we keep holding onto it? And 644 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: perhaps that's a reason why. Well, one more thing about 645 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: about all this before we close out the podcast, and 646 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: that's what we were talking about, which is meeting for 647 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: these Sabbaths. And I keep running across the image by 648 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: Francesca Dagoya, the which is Sabbath Great he Goat, which 649 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: is this this lovely image. Mcgoya's Goya was awesome, And 650 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: so it's all these women and they're they're they're arranged 651 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: like this big semicircle around the second like a harem. Yeah, 652 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: and there's somebody playing the accordion, which I thought was 653 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: a nice touch there with presumably Satan the Great he Goat, 654 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: this sort of goat figure. And and in many of 655 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: the old woodcuts, I love looking at old woodcuts of 656 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 1: witches and warlocks and all that, and the goat is 657 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: often depicted as really really raunchy and gross, and you know, 658 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: he's he's really deplorable looking, and it's like, oh, they're 659 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: these women are gathering to to worship and lay with 660 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: the horned one, and he's so gross and vile and 661 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: but in this image the great he Goat has it 662 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: seems to inspire some of the more sympathetic aspects of 663 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: like of of a goat for starters. And also this 664 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: kind of seems like a wise old man and these 665 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: ladies are I can't really judge him for going on 666 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: and hearing what he has to say. That's a goat 667 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: that looks like has wisdom. Yeah, no, I think that's 668 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: interesting take, but I still prefer the like um, the 669 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: red huge beast as depicted in South Park. Oh, and 670 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: it was very much in touch with his feelings. Yeah, 671 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: the way, and you I think you like the one 672 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: from a legend, right, I'm kind of partial to the 673 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: one Ernest borlad nine played in The Devil's Reign, which 674 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: had a cameo by Anton LaVey of the Church of Satan. 675 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: But Ernest borgnine turns into this man goat creature. It's 676 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: pretty awesome, all right. So you have it. One of 677 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: our favorite episodes and definitely one we wanted to resurrect 678 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: for your Halloween enjoyment. Indeed, do you have any thoughts 679 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: on witches on Halloween? You can send them to blow 680 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: the mind at house Stuff Works Dot com for more 681 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how 682 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com