1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here and for the last two years, 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards listeners have funded the Portland Diaper Bank, 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: which provides diapers for low income families. Uh. Last year 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: y'all raised more than twenty one thousand dollars, which was 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: able to purchase one point one million diapers for children 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: and families in need in one um. And this year 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: we're trying to get two dollars raised for the Portland 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: Diaper Bank, which is going to allow us to help 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: even more kids. So UM, if you want to help, 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: you can go to bTB fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: at go fund me. Just type and go fund me 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: b TB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank. Again, that's go 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: fund Me bTB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank, or find 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: the link in the show notes. Thank you all. Oh 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: what is viciously executing and publicly torturing my son of God? 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: It's good Friday. Not when you listen to this, you'll 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: listen to this week's after Good Friday. UM. Hi, Sharene 18 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: Lonnie Unis, how are you doing? Hi? Robert Robert Evans, UM, 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: I'm okay. Robert's your middle name? Right, Robert, Robert. I'm 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: not gonna confirm or deny what my name is. There 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: isn't I have a number of names like most people, 22 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: like Jesus, who like all exactly exactly like our like 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: our Lord and Um our sovereign allah Um, like Hura, 24 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: mazda uh, like Buddha. You know, there's all sorts of 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: everybody's this time of year, for whatever reason, all the 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: religions are like, we should have a thing, you know. 27 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: We'll have us at Ramadan, we'll have us a passover, 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: we'll have us an Easter. We're all or at least 29 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: all of the all of the Abrahamic faiths. I don't 30 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: know if like, I don't think anything Hindus going on 31 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: right now. I don't know anything Zoroastrians going on anything, 32 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: anything Buddhist, Probably not any Shinto stuff happening right now, 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: but whatever, maybe there is. It is like major ones 34 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: up there, you know, although it's also I think it's 35 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: like the dead of summer where a lot of those 36 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: religions are Southeast Asia. This is kind of like the 37 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: hottest point of that. I don't know. I don't know anyway. Religion. 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: Do you like religion? Sharine? No, please don't hate me 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: the Internet. No, I don't. I actually that's fine. I'm 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: not a big fan myself. My teenager self, I would say, 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: like I despise religion. I loathe it. It made me 42 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: so angry. I hated it. And I think I like 43 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: eased up on that language recently. I don't want to 44 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: offend anybody, and like I realized, for some people, it's 45 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: like meditative and depending on the religion, it can really 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: help people. It's not for me. I just I don't 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: It's not I don't like it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 48 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: like that's completely where I am too sharene because like 49 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I was really angry atheist, 50 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:57,679 Speaker 1: you know, after not when I was like when I 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: was like eighteen nine. I just like seventeen is kind 52 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: when I decided I was an atheist. But yeah, I 53 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: started to get really angry about it as a young adult, 54 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm not angry about it anymore, just because 55 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: like I've realized that all of the things that are 56 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: shitty about religion are shitty about a bunch of stuff, 57 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: and some people just choose to do shitty stuff, and 58 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: whether or not they use a religion to justify it. 59 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: They'll find other things to justify it if it's not religion. 60 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: But that's really beside the point today. Um, yeah, it's humans, 61 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that they're shitty. 62 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: It's just that shitty people will find reasons to do 63 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: shitty things, yes or not, Yeah, religion or not, it's 64 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: it's just a thing that we do because we're cool. Um, 65 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: speaking of actually this does tie in a bit to 66 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. There's some religion. There's definitely some 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: religious stuff involved here. It's gonna be real uncomfortable. Um, Sharina, 68 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: what do you know about Liberia? Liberia? Yeah? Nothing that 69 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: you are you are more or less in the in 70 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: the where most Americans are then okay, great, Yeah I 71 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: know nothing about most things, so I'm excited to learn 72 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: about Liberia today. You are you are aware that they 73 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: had there's been a bunch of war there, right, Yeah, 74 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: you kind of there's conflict and in tragedy things that 75 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: my brain sometimes turns off because I can only handle 76 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: so much trauma. But that's my luxury of being privileged, asshole, 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Well, yeah, it's it's very 78 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: funny because like there's a bunch of places in the 79 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: world where horrible things are going on. UM, places like 80 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: me and mar places like the Democratic Republic of the 81 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: Congo Palestine. UM, where people you know, don't don't. Americans 82 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: are able not to care because and to some of 83 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: the degree, it's like, yeah, man, the world's fucking big. 84 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff going on, Like I can't, 85 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: No one can about all of the bad things that 86 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: are happening, and you can't. You shouldn't be expected to 87 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: like be aware of every single terrible thing happening in 88 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: the world. There's a particular reason why Americans ought to 89 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: know more about Liberia. UM, and it's because we made Liberia. 90 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna talk sharene today. The main subject of 91 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: our episode is a fellow who went by the name 92 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: General Butt Naked. UM. That's a that's a truth. That's 93 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty fun. It's pretty fun name. Not a 94 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: fun guy. UM, not a fun guy. But he's one 95 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: of those dudes. The broad strokes is that like he 96 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: was this warlord, did a bunch of horrible stuff in 97 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: the Liberian Civil War, fought naked, hence the name, and 98 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: then afterwards repented. And there's been a bunch of documentaries 99 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: about how he's he's a Christian preacher now and he's 100 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: apologizing to all his victims. He's a grifter in my opinion. 101 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: But in order to properly talk about this guy, because 102 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the ship he did, there's a lot 103 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: of witchcraft and sacrificing babies and all sorts of fucked 104 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: up shit. Um. Oh yeah, well, but the thing is 105 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: like that all sounds a lot more like, you know, 106 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: there's a problematic history of particularly white dudes like me 107 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: talking about witchcraft and occult practices in different African countries, uh, 108 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: and getting all like, oh my god, they did this 109 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: and they did that. Um, none of it is exactly 110 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: the way that it seems with like the casual uh 111 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: description of what's going on. So before we talk about 112 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: general butt naked, we're gonna have to spend an hour 113 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: or so talking about the history of conflict in Liberia, 114 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: where it came from, and how ship like human sacrifice 115 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: wound up getting kind of ground into the mix there. 116 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: So you're ready, you're ready for this, buckling? Yeah, let 117 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: me buck click, get your get your sad pants on? 118 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: By what pants on? Sad pants? Yeah? Yeah, they're they're 119 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: always on. Yeah. So the first enslaved African people from 120 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: North America landed at Jamestown on August nineteen. This is 121 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: pretty famous because of that New York Times thing. Now, 122 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: most of these folks were england who had been captured 123 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: by Portuguese slavers, and the centuries that followed, they and 124 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: the Africans who followed them became an integral part of 125 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: agriculture and economic viability in the colonies. When the United 126 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: States became a thing, a number of the founding fathers, 127 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: chiefly Thomas Payne, denounced slavery as a terrible evil that 128 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: would one day tear the new nation apart. Thomas Jefferson, 129 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: a slave owner himself, realized this when he wrote his 130 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: Notes on the State of Virginia in seventeen eighty five. 131 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: Here's what he had to say. Why not retain and 132 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: incorporate the blacks into the state and thus save the 133 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: expense of supplying by importation of white settlers the vacancies 134 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: they will leave deep rooted prejudices entertained by the whites. 135 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: Ten thousand recollections by the Blacks of the injuries they 136 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: have sustained new provocations. The real distinctions which nature has made, 137 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: and many other circumstances will divide us into parties and 138 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: produce convulsions which will probably never end, but in the 139 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: extermination of one or the other race. So what he's 140 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: he's talking about here is his idea that, like, if 141 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna end slavery, you should send the black people 142 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: who were brought here back to Africa. Right, That's kind 143 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: of Thomas could because otherwise there will be inevitably be 144 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: a race conflict. You know, you can't just keep them 145 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: here if you're going to free them. That's Thomas Jefferson's attitude. 146 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: And there's a number he thinks that black people were 147 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: probably inferior to white people. Um. And he thinks that 148 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: again there's just too much anger and whatnot. He also 149 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: like does note that white people are probably too bigoted 150 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: for it. It's a weird mix of things. He's a 151 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: strange man. Um. Now, others among his peers disagreed. There 152 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: was an attitude among kind of abolitionists in this early 153 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: period um Some felt that black people had just been 154 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: temporarily degraded by slavery and they could be gradually uplifted 155 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: to the point of social responsibility. This is still problematic, right, 156 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: the idea that they need to be uplifted rather than 157 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: just freed, but is generally better than the idea that 158 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: they're you know, genetically different. Uh So, I don't know. Um. 159 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: As the abolitionist movement picked up steam in the mid 160 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, advocates were often extremely racist themselves. Uh. Many 161 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: abolitionists believe that freed black people could not exist or 162 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: keep up in white society. Others like Jefferson just felt 163 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: that there would be too much understandable anger over slavery 164 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: for them to live alongside white people, which is not 165 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: like an unreasonable attitude to be, like, well, ship, why 166 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: would they want to hang out here? Like after all 167 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: the fun? It's mostly just like they're fearful for their 168 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: own lives, right, Like, Oh, the minute they are able to, 169 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: they're gonna come after us for us treating them like 170 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: actual animals, you know what I mean. I think there's 171 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: a mix of that. I think there's some people who 172 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: are honest abolitionists and for the time very racially progressive 173 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: who just like can't imagine them wanting to um And obviously, 174 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: like one of the problems you'll here again and again 175 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: is a lot of people who are abolitionists are not 176 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: great at actually listening to black people. That's the problem. 177 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: The whole abolitionist movement has. Um some people are better 178 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: at it than others, but it's like a thing that 179 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: happens at periods of time. Um. So, yeah, all of 180 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: these discussions are going on. Late seventeen hundreds, early eighteen hundreds, 181 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: is this abolitionist movement is building up steam, and some 182 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: of the people who are for abolition start to advocate 183 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: for a sort of sponsored immigration program to send freed 184 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: black slaves out of the United States and back to Africa. 185 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: And so this is not they're they're advocating for abolition 186 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: in the United States, but they're also saying, we've got 187 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: all these free black people, we should create a colony 188 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: in Africa for them to send them back to, and 189 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: that once we start freeing more slaves, those people can 190 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: go to that colony, right. Um. One of these men 191 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: was Pennsylvania reformer John Parrish. He advocated manumitting that means 192 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: freeing slaves and sending them back home where they could 193 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: experience quote, liberty and the rights of citizenship without being 194 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: particularly near him. His hope was that sending over a 195 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: small number of black folks would convince other free black 196 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: people to leave North America, and that this would somehow 197 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: inspire the better nature of slave owners to free their 198 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: own people. Quote, many persons of humanity who continue to 199 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: hold slaves would be willing to liberate them on condition 200 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: of their so removing you know what he's saying, He's 201 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: not He's actually kind of saying the same thing Jefferson was, 202 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: because Jefferson was arguing like, well, you can't just free 203 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: him and have him stay here, you know, otherwise it 204 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: will be a problem. So Parrish is being like, well, obviously, 205 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: maybe a lot of these slave owners are really good people. 206 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: They just see that they've it's too dangerous to let 207 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: these people be free, so we have to It's very 208 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: racist again, but it's also not a kind of racism 209 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 1: in America that we talk about a lot, because a 210 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: lot of this history has been kind of brushed over. 211 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's like kind of backwards because you're like, 212 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: they're not saying like, oh my god, controlling another human 213 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: is terrible because you're still controlling them. You're still like, Okay, 214 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: let's stay am out. You know, they are they are 215 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: saying that they're just saying it's not the worst thing exactly. 216 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: That like freeing them would be right, because they are 217 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: saying it's bad to have slaves, but they're just saying 218 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: it's worse to you know. Again, very racist, just kind 219 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: of a type of racism we maybe don't talk about 220 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: enough that existed in this period. Um. So he felt 221 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: like a lot of slave owners didn't want slaves, they 222 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: just kind of inherited them, and they were scared about 223 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: what black people would do if they were free. Um, 224 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: which is a very silly thing to think. Um. Into 225 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: number of eighteen sixteen, a mix of people with good, bad, racist, 226 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: and only slightly racist intentions formed the American Colonization Society. 227 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: Now part of this group, some of these people are 228 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: very legitimately just like again, if you're like a civil 229 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: rights advocate, you're born into the mid eighteen hundreds, you 230 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: see this nightmare system. I can see a ways that 231 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: a decent person would be like, maybe this is the 232 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: best thing. Maybe providing these people like it's so racist here, 233 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: it's so hard for them. Maybe if we tried to 234 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: set them up with a place nice back in Africa, 235 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: this would not be This would be a more ethical 236 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: situation than having to live with all these fucking horrible racists. Right, 237 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: Some people in the American Colonization Siety Society are like that. However, 238 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: it is primarily a dark money organization funded by slave owners. Um, 239 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: and what's going on here is that powerful slave owners 240 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: want to push the idea of an African colony for 241 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: freed slaves because this will remove free black people out 242 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: of the America's and free black people they see as 243 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: like competition for slave labor at that they can profit from. Wait, 244 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: competition for slave they've got slaves, which is free labor, 245 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: but free black people because they you know, work for 246 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: less than free white people because of racism. Right, that's 247 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: competition for low paying work that otherwise will go to 248 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: their slaves that they just profited. Well, yes, yes, I 249 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: think they also see it as like a safety valve 250 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: because again they're really racist. They understand that like some states, 251 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: black people are going to get free, but they don't 252 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: let them sticking around because as long as there are 253 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: free black people in North America, that's a body of 254 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: people who are going to organize to abolish slavery. Right. 255 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: There's a few reasons, right, Yes, yeah. So there's a 256 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: number of reasons why slave owners really like the idea 257 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: of a colony in Africa for free slaves, and that 258 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: their dark money is kind of funding the American colonization society. Um. Yeah, 259 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: and again this group. There are abolitionists in this group, 260 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: but it's not committed to abolition. UM. I want to 261 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: quote now from a rite up on the American I 262 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: want to quote now from a rite up on the 263 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: African American Intellectual History Society's Black Perspective's blog by by 264 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: Nicholas Guyett. Quote. Its origins and trajectory always evinced a 265 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: watery commitment to abolition. Two facts made this commitment supremely insidious. First, 266 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: it placed the burden of ending slavery on the benevolent 267 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: slaveholders themselves, who would supposedly free their slaves when provided 268 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: with an outlet for doing so. Second, it marked an 269 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: epic endorsement of racial segregation, effectively denying the possibility of 270 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: coexistence while promoting what would later be termed separate but equal. 271 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: So you can see there the roots of a couple 272 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: of really fucked up things in the American colonization society. Now, 273 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: before the souring of sectional relations, in the eighteen theories 274 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: and eighteen forties. Colonization also supplied a bridge between mainstream 275 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: anti slavery sentiments in both North and South. The a c. 276 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: S opened auxiliary societies from New England through North Carolina. 277 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: When upper Southern legislatures engaged with the question of ending slavery, 278 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: invariably they identified a black colony as the prerequisite for 279 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: general emancipation. On of the Deep South became a Nogo 280 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: zone for colonization enthusiasts, with white politicians, editors, and businessmen 281 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: mobilizing their considerable power against even a feather light anti 282 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: slavery challenge. In New England, by contrast, colonization retained a 283 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: considerable appeal through the first years of the Civil War. 284 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: So colonization is popular proper in like these kind of 285 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: progressive you might say, like liberal chunks of the North 286 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: where abolition is. And that's why slavery enthusiasts don't want 287 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: any discussion of this in the South, right, because it's 288 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: even a little bit of of abolitionist tendency is too 289 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: much for them. But they love pushing this in the 290 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: North because it's a lot. If you can get people 291 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: focusing on this, they're not focusing on abolishing slavery, which 292 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: would actually hurt them, right, you get what's going on here. 293 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: So the chief accomplishment of the American colonization Society was 294 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: the establishment of the colony of Liberia on Africa's west coast. 295 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: It was founded in eighteen twenty one by a group 296 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: of roughly ten thousand free black migrants who took one 297 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: look at the U S and the eighteen to one 298 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: he's in figured, well, ship anywhere is better than here, right, 299 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: Like from the part of view of these guys who 300 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: are leaving and ladies who are leaving, it's like, yeah, 301 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: of course, Like I get why you wouldn't want to 302 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: stick around North America Right about now, it doesn't seem 303 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: like there's a that's a safe bet um. The first 304 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: big wave of immigration to Liberia was yeah, about ten 305 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: thousand people. And this this occurs over a period of 306 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: time from eighteen twenty two to eighteen forty one, and 307 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: several successive waves. Uh. And these these migrants formed several 308 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: towns on the coast with names like Robert Sport, Monrovia, Buchanan, 309 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: and Greenville. Although I think their initial Monrovia's first capital 310 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: name is Christopolis. Christopolis. Ye, that was the first name. 311 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: Very funny, um, although it's not going to be funny 312 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: actually because spoilers colonialism. So because of racism, these these 313 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: these black people who have gone to Liberia are not 314 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: actually the masters of their own domain. At first, Liberia 315 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: is a colony of the United States, and the new 316 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: immigrants are ruled by a white governor who appoints white officials. Uh. Now, 317 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: the new residents of the city did have a legislative 318 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: council that they got to vote for and their own 319 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: elected representatives who work with the governor. Right, so they 320 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: do have representation, certainly more than they did in the 321 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: United States at the time. Right. But final approval for 322 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: all actions voted for by the council pinned it on 323 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: approval by a board of managers for the Colonization Society 324 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: who lived in Washington, d c. So if the if 325 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: the black people living there voted for something, they had 326 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: to send it back across the Atlantic to get ratified 327 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: by this council who could also annull laws. Like they 328 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: leave these plantations, they're enslaved in the States and they 329 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: go to this just dry island plantation. Oh boy, you 330 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: have predicted some of where this is going, um, but 331 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: not for them actually, but yeah, there there is like 332 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: this is obviously very fucked up. It's in keeping them 333 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: with their right the idea of some of these these 334 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: dudes that like they need to be trained up before 335 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: they can run their own country. Right, That's that's why 336 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: they're doing it this way. That's why the white people 337 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: are doing it this way. Um. So now it is 338 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: the good news is that anytime they send a dude 339 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: over there, a white dude over there to help govern 340 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: the colony, that motherfucker dies immediately, right because there's all 341 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: sorts of there's all sorts of bugs and ship that 342 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: are biting white people. They get it right, Like, there's 343 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: all sorts of ship that like kills white people in 344 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: Africa in this period because we don't have good medicine. 345 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: They're just dropping like flies fucking mosquito. But white ass 346 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: motherfucker's um no son. Yeah, So these guys keep dying, um, 347 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: which is a real problem. It makes it difficult for 348 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: them to like run the colony the way they want 349 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: to and makes it hard for them to have white 350 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: people to report back to d c um and beyond that, 351 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: the society after the earliest years runs into a funding crunch. Um. 352 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: So part of this is because they stopped getting donations 353 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: because abolitionists wake up to the fact that this is 354 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: a dark money thing for slave owners. Part of this 355 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: is that like the conflict over slavery gets nastier and 356 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: slave owners stopped putting like they start putting money elsewhere. Right. So, 357 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: starting in the eighteen forties, white oversight of Liberia starts 358 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: to peel away. Liberians begin to agitate for total autonomy, 359 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: and when the last white governor dies in eighteen forty one, 360 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: they get it. The society appoints a black governor, Joseph Roberts, 361 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: who became the first not white person to run things 362 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: in Liberia. Now the colony then at this point, you know, 363 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: stops being a colony, not really a colony after this moment, 364 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: and it's it becomes an independent nation in July of 365 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: eighteen forty seven. And if that had been all that happened, 366 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: should be this would be one of the less depressing 367 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: stories in the history of slavery. Here's the thing. Now, 368 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: you send ten thousand black people in America, pretty much 369 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: all born in the United States as slaves, some of 370 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: them born free. But you take these these black Americans 371 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: and you send them to the west coast of Africa 372 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: to set up cities. Now, are you seeing any potential 373 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: problems here? Uh? Well, I mean are there I'm confused. 374 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: Were there already people online? Yes, they're they're absolutely we're 375 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: people there before. Okay, Yeah, we're people there. I mean 376 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: I'm sounding like people that don't understand about Palestine. Of course, 377 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: there's a ton of people there. Okay. And again, these 378 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: these these dudes, these these migrants are obviously these people 379 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: were stolen from somewhere in Africa, or at least their 380 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: ancestors were, right, Um, But they're from like potentially all 381 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: over like certainly not Liberia in specific generally. And also 382 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: they were they speak English, they're Christian, they dress like Americans. 383 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: There they have been living free in US cities. Yeah, right, 384 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: So these are this is not a case of like 385 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: these people returning to their homeland. These people are colonizing Liberia. Um. 386 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: And if you know anything about colonization, it's not nice. Um. 387 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: And and this was not suddenly fine just because the 388 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: guys doing the colonization in Africa we're black. It's it's 389 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: still pretty messy. Uh. And I'm gonna quote now from 390 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: an article by In M. B Akpan in the Canadian 391 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: Journal of African Studies titled Black Imperialism. Quote. The settlers 392 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: constituted the rulers who ran the Liberian government in much 393 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: the same way as the British and French constituted rulers 394 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: and naval it neighboring colonial territories like Sierra Leone and 395 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: the Ivory Coast. However, actual power rested in the hands 396 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: of prominent members of certain leading settler families or lineages, 397 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: in a manner that retained that maintained some balance of 398 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: power among the families. The settlers on whom the government 399 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: of Liberia that's evolved as from eighteen forty one, were 400 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: essentially American rather than African and outlook and orientation. They 401 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: retained a strong sentimental attach and attachment to America, which 402 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: they regarded as their native land. They wore the Western 403 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: mode of dress, which they had become accustomed in America, 404 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: However unsuitable this dress was to Liberia's tropical weather. A 405 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: black silk topper and a long black frock coat from 406 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: men and a Victorian silk gown for women. They built 407 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: themselves frame stone or brick porticoed houses of one and 408 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: a half to two stories, similar to those of the 409 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: plantation owners in the Southern States of America, and they 410 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: preferred American food like flour, corn meal, butter, large pickle, beef, bacon, 411 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: and American grown rice, large quantities of which they imported 412 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: annually to African food stuff like cassafa, plantain, yams, palm oil, 413 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: sweet potatoes, and country rice grown by Africans and the 414 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: Liberian hinterland. They were Christians, spoke English as their mother tongue, 415 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: and practice monogamy. They held land individually, in contrast with 416 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: the communal ownership of the African population, and their political 417 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: institutions were modeled on those of America, with an elected 418 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: president and a legislature made up of a Senate and 419 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: a House of Representatives, so that in spite of their color, 420 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: they were as a rule as foreign and lacking in 421 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: sentimental attachment to Africa, as we're European colonialists elsewhere in Africa, 422 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: like the British, the French, the Portuguese and the Spaniards. Yeah, 423 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: that's a really stir in the pot here. I mean, 424 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: like it just they're like conduits are like vessels for 425 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: still like white agendas. It sounds likely even if they 426 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: don't mean to be. I mean, it's not so much 427 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: white as like Western because obviously they're not white. For me, 428 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: it's interchangeable. I know that's a mistake, but yeah, yeah, 429 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: they are very much. They are Westerners, and they see 430 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: to a large extent the people who had been living 431 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: in Liberia as like backwards, um devil worshiping weirdos who 432 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: don't deserve political rights. Right, so the indigenous Liberians don't 433 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: get to vote in the same way that like, yeah, 434 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: like they're all they're shut out to a significant extent, 435 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: at least from the franchise, right. Um. And if you're thinking, boy, howdy, 436 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: I bet this coust a problem somewhere to on the line, 437 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: then good news, you're right on the money. Over the 438 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: next half century and change, the Americo Liberians became an oligarchy, 439 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: practicing what one historian called a quote sort of sub 440 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: imperialism at African expense. By nineteen hundred, about fifteen thousand 441 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: black American immigrants had settled in Liberia, along with around 442 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: three hundred immigrants from the West Indies. Liberia is often 443 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: claimed in twentieth century history books as one of two 444 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: African states that remained independent during the Scramble for Africa, 445 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: the other being Ethiopia, But this is not quite accurate. 446 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: Ethiopia is, for sure, but Liberia was a colony that 447 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: just became independent in eighteen forty seven, like certainly a 448 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: lot earlier than other colonies did, because most of Africa 449 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: hadn't been colonized in eighty seven. But the fact that 450 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: it was not recolonized doesn't really mean anything because it 451 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: was already a colony um and the actual indigenous people 452 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: in Liberia were a sub class within their own homeland 453 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: with very little economic or political power. The Americo Liberians 454 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: held all of the power, and their Americo Liberian WIG 455 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: Party was essentially the only legal political party in the 456 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: country from eighteen sixty to nineteen eighty. Despite the fact 457 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: that immigrant descended Liberians made up only two percent of 458 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: the population, they effectively turned the rest of the country 459 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: into a profit making engine for themselves. In nineteen thirty one, 460 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,959 Speaker 1: an international commission found that several prominent Americo librarians had 461 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: enslaved indigenous Africans. So yeah, uh, the West is pretty 462 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: pretty pretty pretty yeah, it does it does. It does 463 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: work that way sometimes. God, you know what else? People? 464 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: Is a virus, sharid. It is a virus. It's a 465 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: virus that keeps our democracy functioning in a healthy manner, 466 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: like the epstein bar virus. You know, you can't get 467 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: enough of it? Just nom good taste. Uh huh, that's 468 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: what everyone says about the epstein bar virus. Anyway, here's 469 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: some ads. Ah, we're back. We're really enjoying that message 470 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: from our sponsors. The epstein bar virus. Cat catch it 471 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: tomorrow anyway. Um So, if you want a good example 472 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: of how, like Sophie the good the good people at 473 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: the epstein bar virus paid us serious money for that plug. 474 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: Ever makes you happy, Robert, that does make me happy. 475 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: I'd be happier if everybody went and got the epstein 476 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: bar virus. Let's let's move on from the bit I think? 477 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: I think? Is that? Should we move on from the bit? 478 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: Is it not? You think so? I'm gonna look up 479 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: what the epstein bar virus does because I've forgotten. Uh yeah, 480 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: well you know, I just remember the name. I'm so 481 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: lucky or like it's like it's the herpes virus. I guess. Oh, no, 482 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: it's mono. Is it moto? I don't know that's let's 483 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: let's yeah. I think it's it's Monoe for seven time. Yeah. Yeah, 484 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: that's that's that good ship. Um. Yeah, so get motto. 485 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: Everybody get mono. Okay, Sophie, how are you doing? You happy? 486 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: You're happy with me as a podcaster. You're glad you 487 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: made this series of choices in your life that led 488 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: to you sitting here while a guy talks about however, 489 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: once you get mono on a podcast about Liberia kind 490 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: of Actually, I was gonna say, even though Sophie is 491 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: like not, She's like I wasn't talking, Like, I'm just 492 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: so glad her camera is always on because I can 493 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: just like every time you say something, I can just 494 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: look up and I know. Sophie's like we connect, you know, like, yes, 495 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: we connect, and you know what connecting is how people 496 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: get mono. Anyway, what move on from the bid okay example, 497 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: So we're talking about like mono. Colonization spreads, like the 498 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: colonial mindset and the imperial mindset spreads from the United 499 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: States to Liberia as do what's really as we noted, 500 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: like some of these America liberians take slaves from the 501 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: Native Africans for themselves. They also create a plantation I 502 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: mean several, but there's one in particular we're going to 503 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: talk about right now because this really high highlights how 504 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: fucked up some of the stuff going on here is. Um. 505 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: Starting in the nineteen twenties, the Firestone Corporation starts a 506 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: massive rubber plantation in Liberia, which profits obviously the two 507 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: percent of people who are America Liberian that sprawls from 508 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: the coast to like the hills of central Liberia. Um. 509 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: It's this like massive thousands and thousands of acres UM 510 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: with people like living on it, harvesting rubber rubber for 511 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: very little money, um, and have very little control over 512 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: their own lives, like indigenous people laboring day in and 513 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: day out to harvest the rubber that makes the tires 514 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: and like the cars that first start filling American streets. Um, 515 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. I'm gonna quote from a ride up 516 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: in pro Publica. At the center of this kingdom was 517 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: House fifty three, reserved for the plantation boss. It stood 518 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: up a hill overlooking the rest of the plantation, a 519 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: two story Antebellum style Georgian colonial mansion of pink brick. 520 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: It had a wide porch, six white Corinthian columns, and 521 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,479 Speaker 1: jalucy windows. Other homes for expatriates featuring verandas and manicured gardens, 522 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: were scattered nearby. In a section of the plantation known 523 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: as Harbor Hills, there was a nine hole golf course, 524 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: tennis courts, and a country club with a bar. About 525 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: three miles down the road was Harbor Firestone's Own Company Town, 526 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: a portmanteau form from the names of the businesses founder 527 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: Harveys Firestone Senior and his wife Idabell. It held Firestone 528 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: Central Office, industrial garages, and a latex practicing plant retlent 529 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: of ammonia and other chemicals. The town itself was a 530 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: collection of tin roofed homes and shops, a grocery store, 531 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: a bank, schools, and brick and cinder block bungalows for 532 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: mid level Liberian managers and domestic staff. There were the 533 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: homes of the tappers, the Liberian workers who did the 534 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: hard work of extracting the latex sap from the trees. 535 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: The camps were long, low rows of residences, almost like coops. 536 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 1: Units generally consisted of a single room. The homes had 537 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: wattle and daubed walls and aluminum roofs. There were no 538 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: windows and no kitchens. The work camps had communal pumps 539 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: for water and outdoor kitchens for cooking. There was no electricity. 540 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: Bathrooms were outhouses or the nearby bush. There was the world. 541 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: This was the world of the Firestone operation, described in 542 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: a night in nineteen ninety by one company executive as 543 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: resembling an old Southern plantation. So fucking George H. W. 544 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: Bush is in the White House and white people are 545 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: running a plantation in Africa. Um, with the collusion of 546 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: the Americo Liberian government, where the workers there are just 547 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: a couple of steps above being enslaved. That was like yesterday, Yeah, 548 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: real recent. And when the civil war starts, Firestones company 549 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: presentatives are going to make some cool choices about how 550 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: to help. Yeah, this Firestone tired rubber. Yeah, this is 551 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: where the rubber comes from plantation in Africa. So that's neat. Um. Now, 552 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: you will not be surprised to hear that an awful 553 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: lot of Liberians and I mean like indigenous librarians were 554 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: not jazzed with the status quo. Right, people have problems 555 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: with it. Um. It was a pretty yeah at least yeah, 556 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: not psyched. It was. It was you have to give 557 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: it a really effective system because Liberia kind of if 558 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: you treat the America Liberian rule as a colonial project, 559 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: it lasts longer than basically any other African colony other 560 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: than like South Africa. Argued with like that, yeahs because 561 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: like people are never taught about it or like you 562 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: know what I mean, went under the radar because no 563 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: one even knew it was there. Well, I don't know. 564 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: I think there's a number of I don't know about 565 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean most I think I think very little of 566 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: this history is known to Americans. Like it's not something 567 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: we really talked about. I remember vaguely hearing that one 568 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: of the like I remember in like a textbook I 569 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: had in high school that was talking about like abolition 570 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: movement pre Civil War. There was like a little box 571 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: in like one of the pages that summarized like the 572 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: American Colonization Society and the colonizing of Liberia, and like 573 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: four paragraphs and like that was just kind of like, oh, 574 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: some people went over there. This is one thing that 575 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: folks tried. Like I don't, I didn't I didn't hear this. 576 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: I didn't learn anything about like the they again like 577 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: black imperialism is the title of one of the and 578 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: obviously it's not. I think it's I think they're using 579 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: that to kind of, uh illicit a reaction. This is 580 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: still in a lot of ways white imperialism. It's just 581 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: using black people because there's a huge financial benefit and 582 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: a military benefit which will discuss later to the United 583 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: States because Liberia functions this way. Um, so yeah, it's 584 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: a pretty effective system. Uh. The Americo Liberians remain in 585 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: charge until nineteen eighty when things begin to go terribly wrong. 586 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: The last president that the oligarchy was able to successfully 587 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: keep in power while install in power, I should say, 588 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: was a guy named William Tilbert. His administration was severely 589 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: weakened early on due to a series of rice riots 590 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: in the end of the nineteen seventies, and by early 591 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty his ability to stay in powder where was 592 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: teetering on the break because you might guess they were 593 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 1: like there was a lot of hunger. Poor people who 594 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: are indigenous librarians generally are starving the riot because they 595 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: want food. The government cracks down on it brutally. They 596 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: arrest a bunch of organizers. Um. But you know they 597 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: beat this down, but their their hold on power is 598 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: not secure. Um. Tober does not seem to have been 599 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: a very bright dude because he's not entirely aware of 600 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: how shaky his position is. He and his fellow oligarch's 601 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: um felt like they had control mostly locked down because 602 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: all of the officers in the Liberian military were Americo 603 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: Liberia in you could not be an indigenous Liberian and 604 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: be an officer. Now here's what's interesting. All of the 605 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: enlisted men are indigenous um. And so all of like 606 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: the sergeants and corporals are indigenous men. This is exactly 607 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: the same way we talked about years ago. It did 608 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: an episode on Idi Amine who becomes the dictator of Uganda, 609 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: which is a British colony after the British come out, 610 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: and and Idi Amine was like the highest ranking Native 611 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: African military officer in the military Uganda when the British left, 612 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: and he was a sergeant. Because the way the British 613 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: military worked in Africa, all of your officers are white dudes. 614 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: All of the enlisted men are are black Africans, so 615 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: the people that could die are usually not like yes, 616 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: but also the the officers are the ones who are 617 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: supposed to be able to do the coordinating and the 618 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: actual like executing a military operations. Um So that's part 619 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: of why you don't want indigenous people to be officers, 620 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: because then they'll have Sergeants are never supposed to have 621 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: command over big units of guys, right Like, that's the 622 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: thing for for for captains and may Jews and colonels 623 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: and whatnot. Um So, you can see that the Liberian 624 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: militaries organized the same way that like the British and 625 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: the French organized their colonial militaries. Um And because again 626 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: Idi Amine was a sergeant before he became dictator. When 627 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: Liberia has its civil war and the government gets overthrown, 628 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: it's going to be a sergeants who do the overthrowing, 629 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: because that's as high as you can rise in the 630 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: military as an indigenous person. Um So, Tibert was so 631 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: convinced that he was in a secure position that he 632 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: started doing the one thing an oligarchic leader of what 633 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: is effectively a US back dictatorship should never do. He 634 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: starts to funk with the US. Um See, the U 635 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: S Department of Defense had come to expect we, like 636 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: Liberia in part because there's a bunch of benefits. Financial benefits. 637 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: US companies make a lot of money cheap labor, get 638 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: rubber and shipped from Liberia. UM. But also the US 639 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: has a bunch of factory we get up to in Africa, right, 640 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: We got a ton of ship going on in Africa, 641 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: specially in this period. UM. In Liberia, we say, hey, 642 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: we need to land some fucking planes. We gotta keep 643 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: some marines there, we need to keep like a rapid 644 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: deployment force or whatever. In the past, Liberia is always 645 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: like absolutely, send as many troops as you want, say, like, 646 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: land your planes here, fly out of here, you can 647 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: get to go. We're buddies, you know, because intelligent people 648 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: who are part of this oligarchy recognize that the United 649 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: States being in your pocket is basically the best thing 650 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: you could do in terms of staying exactly what's what's 651 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: what is heaping is the benefit of that. Um. I 652 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: I don't think he's a very bright dude. I'm gonna 653 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: admit I'm not the most knowledgeable on this, but it's 654 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: it's generally reviewed regarded as kind of a baffling decision. 655 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: But he's also like, um, you know, there's there's the 656 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: the US is kind of like I think, withholding some 657 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: um some aid funding and stuff out of civil rights concerns. 658 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: So there's like there's some pressure being put on his 659 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: regime I think by the US, and he decides to 660 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: like push back in this way. Um. This proves to 661 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: be a really bad call because when basically d C 662 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: decides we want a new US rapid deployment Force in Liberia, um, 663 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: and they asked permission and Toilber is like no. So 664 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: then the CIA and the Department of Defense are like, well, 665 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: why do we want this guy in power now? All right? 666 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: Like this doesn't benefit us at all? Um. Who Well, 667 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: they try to It's kind of debatable as to how 668 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: much of an impact they really have on this, but 669 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: they certainly start thinking about it, and they start going 670 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: through some names of like what what sergeants and whatnot 671 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: in the in the Liberian military do we think could 672 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: like overthrow the government? Um. It was generally assumed Liberia 673 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: doesn't have much in the way of other political parties yet, 674 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: so there's not really an established opposition, So it was 675 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: assumed the army's the best place to actually get some 676 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: kind of revolutionary leader Um, they're not really able to 677 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: move forward unless the situation changes, though, and that change 678 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: starts to come courtesy if the Progressive Alliance of Liberia, 679 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: an advocacy group which decides to become a political party. 680 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty, they start holding events. Uh, and talk 681 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: spread that Tilbert's regime was planning to execute a bunch 682 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: of the organizers of the riots who were still imprisoned 683 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: on the one year anniversary of the Rice Riots to 684 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: like kind of solidified power threaten these people. Um. So 685 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: this inspires a lot of local Liberians to do something 686 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: ahead of that date. Uh. And it's very likely that 687 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: the CIA had some sort of I don't think we 688 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: know exactly what they were certainly talking about overthrowing Tollbear. 689 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: And then it happens. It's again, I can't tell you 690 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: exactly their role here, but what happens is that a 691 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: group of seventeen soldiers, mostly sergeants, which is the highest 692 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: rank that librarians could hold, um, attempt to launch a 693 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: coup ahead of that anniversary. And I'm gonna quote now 694 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: from the Liberian Civil Wars by Charles River editors the 695 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: senior ranking member of the coup party, although not Its 696 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 1: leader was Master Sergeant Samuel will Do, and almost entirely 697 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: unknown figure. The decision was rather spontaneous and aided by alcohol. 698 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: The party set off on the evening of the eleventh 699 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: fully armed, and made its way to the foot of 700 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: the Barclay Training Center towards Capitol Hill and the Executive Mansion. 701 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: The streets were unlit. An entry to the grounds of 702 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: the mansion was gained without challenge. At about ours in 703 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: the morning of the twelfth, the coup party broke into 704 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,439 Speaker 1: the basement, also without encountering any challenge, and cautiously entered 705 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: the upstairs section. Now purely by chance. It turns out 706 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: that President Tolbert had been out at a Baptist convention. 707 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: He was a preacher, uh so he had been preaching 708 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: at this convention, and instead of going back to his compound, 709 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: he decides to go back and sleep at the Capitol 710 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: building that night. So he's in his bathroom and his 711 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: pajamas when he hears gunfire, which is the coup members 712 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: assaulting his guards. The whole thing is very messy. It 713 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: ends with Tolbar, his teenage nephew, and a bunch of 714 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: guards all executed brutally. These are very violent killings. Um 715 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: When Tolbar's body is discovered the next day, his corpse 716 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: was found mutilated as best as anyone can tell. A 717 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: corporal named Harrison Penno had shot him in the head 718 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: after Tolbert attempted to bribe him. For more detail, I'm 719 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: gonna turn again to the quote from that book, the 720 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,800 Speaker 1: Liberian Civil Wars quote. After the shooting, Corporal Pinno was 721 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: asked what he thought he was doing, and his reply 722 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: was that he wanted to see Tolbert die in order 723 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: to debunk a generally held belief that the president was 724 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 1: a witch doctor. The idea of leadership allied to sorcery 725 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: remains common enough in Africa, and most Liberian leaders tended 726 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: to allow mythology of that nature to pass, since it 727 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 1: added to the mystique of their rule. Tolbert habitually carried 728 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: a short ivory tipped cane, and the belief was that 729 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: it was carved from the femur of a human leg bone. 730 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: It was remarked by one soldier that if Tolbert had 731 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: laid the cane down, he would not have been killed, 732 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: But it is unlikely that he was carrying any ceremonial 733 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: a koutrama. At that particular moment, regardless, three more bullets 734 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: were put in his head just to ensure the job 735 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: was done. And with that, the nineteenth President of the 736 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 1: Liberian Republic lay dead on the floor of his bedroom 737 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: in a pool of blood. So he gets disemboweled after this. 738 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: At some point after he's killed, his guts get removed, 739 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: which is again seen as the best way to kill 740 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: a witch doctor. It is hard to say who did 741 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: this because after the coup proof successful, these seventeen initial 742 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: dudes are joined by like a U to other soldiers. 743 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: They find the president's liquor cabinet, and they all just 744 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: get ship house drunk and go on a killing spree. 745 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: They just start murdering, like anybody associated with the old government. Right, well, yeah, 746 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: so this is gnarly. It's also like you're part of 747 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: an oppressed class. You're used as cannon fodder by the government, 748 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,439 Speaker 1: like you have no rights, and you get a chance 749 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: to murder them all. Historically, you murder them all. Um, 750 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: this is not the only place something like this has happened. Uh, 751 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: So we're going to talk a lot more about disembowment, cannibalism, 752 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: and other similar subjects. But you should probably discuss what 753 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: those things mean in a Liberian context, because again, a 754 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff gets like over like focused on 755 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: by foreigners talking about like this conflict and being like, 756 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, there's cannibals and witch doctors, and there's 757 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: like talking about why that exists in what that means 758 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: you talk about witch stuff a little bit. Yeah, we're 759 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,359 Speaker 1: going to talk about um. This particular, the particular part 760 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: of West Africa where the Liberian colony is established, a 761 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: history of a practice called good boyle uh, and good 762 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: boyle was at practice whereby people are killed so that 763 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: their body parts can be used as sacrifices to magically 764 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: obtain certain benefits. Now, one like local news source is 765 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: kind of like a West African news source described this 766 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: as an ancient practice and notes that Liberian elites, which 767 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: generally means the Americo Liberians, never really attempted to like 768 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: find ways to stop this and never really worked on 769 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: a good way for how to do it um. And 770 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: since they tended to be Christian and kind of dicks um, 771 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,439 Speaker 1: indigenous practices developed. A degree of gravity is like acts 772 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: of resistance to the oligarchy, a version of this happens 773 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: in Haiti, right, where a lot of these traditional practices 774 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: become associated with resistance to the colonial regime. Now also 775 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: that local source I found scholars will quibble with aspects 776 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: of that because, again, as was noted above, Tolbert whose 777 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: Americo Liberian and other presidents would definitely like signpost to 778 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: some of these kind of belief about much craft invincible 779 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: or like like the myste Yeah yeah. Um So, anyway, 780 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of these these kind of 781 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: traditional like boyo, this traditional practice is seen as kind 782 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: of a resistance practice to the Christian and like very 783 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: western regime. Um, this seems to have caused what had 784 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: been very fairly uncommon practices spiritual practices before colonization to 785 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: grow and mutate. University, Yeah, because this is what happens 786 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: in Liberia all of the ship we're going to be 787 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: talking about that happens in the Civil War. Ad. These 788 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: really fucked up practices. These are a lot of people 789 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: will argue did not really exist in the same fashion 790 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: prior to colonization. Yeah, they were. They were like in 791 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: response to being colonized and oppressed, they were like, we 792 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: can match onto these things that are becoming this form 793 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: of resistance, and they're also they're going to change over time. 794 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,839 Speaker 1: So the University of Wisconsin professor Florence Burno um right 795 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,800 Speaker 1: that quote. Public rumors depict human sacrifice and often related 796 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: sorceries as the most common way to achieve personal success, wealth, 797 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 1: and prestige in times of economic shortage and declining social opportunities. 798 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: Political leaders are widely believed to perform ritual murder to 799 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: ensure electoral success and power, and many skillfully use these 800 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: perceptions to build visibility and deference. So people like a 801 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: lot of these these rulers in this period, like aren't 802 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: necessarily doing these things, but they are kind of signaling 803 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: that they do, which leads to an increased belief that 804 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: there's some efficacy to this. And Burnout notes that rather 805 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: being a truly ancient practice, kaboya and other similar practices 806 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: have roots in the past, but are influenced in their 807 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: modern forms by the extractive nature of colonialism. Quote. The 808 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 1: colonial situation revealed significant contradictions in the Western fiction of 809 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: a modern disconnect between body and power. The series of 810 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 1: political and moral transgressions triggered by the conquest made apparent 811 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: how Europeans themselves envisioned political survival as a form of 812 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: positive exchange revolving around the body fetish. In the colony, 813 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: black and white bodies became re sacrilized as political resources. 814 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: Think about how in the can you explain what body fetish? Like? 815 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: What are saying, like fetish is kind of like a 816 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: religious term for like an object of sort of like 817 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: worship or at least of spiritual focus needed to Okay, 818 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: I understand that, but like, so think about one of 819 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: so one of the things people talk about, like cannibalism 820 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: in the Congo, and one thing they'll point out is 821 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of these practices were influenced to even 822 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: have their origin and what the Belgians were doing and 823 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: taking the hands of people who did not like harvest 824 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: enough rubber, because like what they're pointing out is that, like, well, 825 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: from the perspective of these people living in this region, 826 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: Europeans are engaging in the same acts. They're taking pieces 827 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: of human bodies and they are using them to gain 828 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: power in why wouldn't that work? Well, it's like you 829 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: get power by taking somebody's hand from them, right, you 830 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: get power over the whole community. You know that as 831 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: this threat how is that any meaningfully different than like 832 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: you kill somebody and you take take a part of 833 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: their body apart and like eat it or whatever. Like. 834 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: You can see a relation between those two things, and 835 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: you can see how like the the extractive nature of 836 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: colonial capitalism on these people influences these ideas of like 837 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: sacrificing and taking pieces of the body in order to 838 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 1: gain power. You know, it's not this is not evolving 839 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: in the point that these scholars, this doesn't These practices 840 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: aren't They're not. It's not just people doing what they've 841 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: been doing for thousands of years. There they have evolved 842 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: and changed over the period of colonization as much as 843 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: everyone has um and so have these practices. And these 844 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: practices cannot be extricated from from capitalism or from colonization, right. Um, So, 845 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,720 Speaker 1: by the time Sergeant Doan as allies overthrow the government, 846 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: these practices have become quote not a marginal but a 847 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: central dimension of the nature of public authority, leadership, and 848 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: popular identities. And this is going to cause a lot 849 00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: of real nasty problems. But you know what else is 850 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 1: going to call some real nasty problem. Serene Epstein bar Virus. 851 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: Oh boy, howdy, let me tell you, the Epstein I 852 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: should have brought it back, causes the problem of having 853 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,320 Speaker 1: a good time. Look, everybody loves a little bit of 854 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 1: mono smooch smooch. It was very popular in my high 855 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,879 Speaker 1: school me too. Actually, all the kids loved it. All Right, 856 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: here's some ads. Uh, we're back and and continue to 857 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: be the only podcast with the courage to be supported 858 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: by Mono Nucleus. Yeah, that's on me, Sophie, It's on me. 859 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: It's it is it is. Look, fucking NPRS whatever thing 860 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: they do the daily, that New York Times podcast, Those 861 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: fucking cowards would never be sponsored by the Epstein. Bar 862 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 1: virus cowards, cowards, all of them. Um. I will say that, 863 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,800 Speaker 1: like there's an impulse that I won't I won't entertain 864 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: like this, this fascination with physical body and power and 865 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: like what that means, like on a philosophical level, I'm 866 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,840 Speaker 1: so fascinated by that. And I said this before another podcast, 867 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: But there's always a tendency I have in any podcast 868 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: I guessed on to just become philosophy zz And I 869 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: won't do that this time. But I will say I 870 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: have the impulse too, because it's very fascinating when you 871 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: think about that overlap in that connection, because it's like, 872 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: so I don't know what it is. It's it's just sucking. 873 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: Why I would I don't know, I don't know what 874 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 1: the thor it is. I would really encourage people to read, UM, 875 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: some of what Burno has written on Florence Burno B E. 876 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: R in a U L T. I think that's how 877 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: it's pronounced from the University of Wisconsin. UM. Because there's 878 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: a lot of like writing on this, not just in Liberia, 879 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: because like versions of this are are recognized in other colonies, 880 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: but it is really We've we talked about it a 881 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: bit in some of our Congo episodes. It is a 882 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: really fascinating demand. And it also you often get from 883 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: not not just from racist because obviously racists be racist NG, 884 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 1: but from like people who don't who are racist but 885 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: don't want to frame themselves that way, talking about like 886 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,239 Speaker 1: problems in Africa as like, well, you do have this 887 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: problem of like you've got this ancient and culture that 888 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: has some really savage dimensions, and you know that this 889 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,240 Speaker 1: is a problem in like labor aria of like attaining 890 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,719 Speaker 1: any kind of peace, and it's like, well, actually those 891 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,600 Speaker 1: practices aren't. They are evolved from ancient practices, but they're 892 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,399 Speaker 1: very much rooted in the ship that like was done 893 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: to these people to make them a productive rubber plantation. 894 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, it's does not get it gets glossed over, 895 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Really pices, you know, should 896 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 1: be discussed like this. They are not any more savage 897 00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,719 Speaker 1: than slavery and then colonialism. You know, they're just nastier 898 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,560 Speaker 1: looking because there's a lot of value put in kind 899 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,680 Speaker 1: of like making the plantations. Is that's why people have 900 00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,680 Speaker 1: weddings at plantations, right, Because you're a slave owner, you 901 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 1: dry sit up more. It's so embarrassing how many like 902 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: friends of friends or whatever. Just the photos of like 903 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 1: having a wedding on a plantation makes me want to vomit. 904 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 1: But like why why why is it glossed over that 905 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,399 Speaker 1: like blinching happened and all these things, and like it's 906 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 1: still it's still fucking happens, you know what I mean, 907 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,120 Speaker 1: Like these violent acts that are so disgusting. I will 908 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: say it right here. I think killing a dude in 909 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: battle and eating his heart is a thousand times less 910 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,880 Speaker 1: gross than forcing a man to labor for you until 911 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 1: he dies. Yes, way less gross? Ye, God, that's I 912 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,279 Speaker 1: don't know, I fucking people, man, I don't know. But 913 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 1: like also like body power all the stuff. It's also 914 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 1: in every culture, not every culture, I can like think 915 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,520 Speaker 1: of a few cultures that uh still incorporate this fascination 916 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 1: with like someone like taking a part of someone's body 917 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: to demonstrate your power. Over Look, look look at Sam, 918 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,279 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, it's just like there's 919 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: like I can I want on deep dive into this 920 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: off air. There's somebody there's I mean, a lot has 921 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: been written. This is really a fascinating thing to read into. 922 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,560 Speaker 1: We're not gonna, I don't. I don't want to pretend 923 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,880 Speaker 1: we're doing anything but scratching the surface. But it is 924 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,480 Speaker 1: important to scratch the surface because when we read these 925 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 1: lurid stories of like child sacrifice and cannibalism, you need 926 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 1: to know that it's more complicated than just like, look 927 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,319 Speaker 1: at this fucked up thing they do in Liberia, right, 928 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,600 Speaker 1: the thing these non white people have exactly time because 929 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,320 Speaker 1: they're uncivilized or whatever. It's like, it's important to understand 930 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: that it's like it's part of a continuum of violence 931 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,839 Speaker 1: and it's not the it's it's an ugly it's certainly bad, 932 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: but it's not like it's not the start of it, 933 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,959 Speaker 1: and it's not the part that has caused the most 934 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,279 Speaker 1: harm at scale. Yeah, by the time Sergeant Do and 935 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: his allies over through the government, Uh, these practices have 936 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,920 Speaker 1: become again like central to the nature of public authority. 937 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: And guys like Tolbert probably maybe aren't actually doing anything, 938 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: certainly not aren't doing some of the stuff that other 939 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,919 Speaker 1: people will do. But when these indigenous folks come into power, 940 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: they have this expectation that, like, this is what you 941 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,359 Speaker 1: do when you're in power. These practices are both how 942 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,280 Speaker 1: you submit your power publicly and also how you ensure 943 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: that you won't lose it. So Doe founds a new 944 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: military junta government with himself at the head. Most of 945 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,920 Speaker 1: the people that he let run the country are members 946 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: of the Krawn ethnic group. Because Doe is Krawn. They 947 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: had been traditionally a fairly minor group in terms of 948 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,839 Speaker 1: their like numbers in power in the country, but Doe 949 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 1: puts them at the center of a building ship show. 950 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,920 Speaker 1: The government he headed was at least as brutal and 951 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 1: violent is the one he'd replaced. And by the way, 952 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,360 Speaker 1: the Firestone Plantation keeps right on shugging along because do 953 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: that for a brief moment. But well, Doe comes in 954 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 1: in part to be pro us, right, he's very he 955 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,480 Speaker 1: doesn't want he doesn't want to funk up things for business, 956 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, like because obviously is beneficial to him. Exactly, 957 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,279 Speaker 1: He's all about that. Um so, yeah, they do all 958 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,839 Speaker 1: their nastiest ship one of the one of the most 959 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 1: infamous moments, like after taking power, when everyone's still kind 960 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,840 Speaker 1: of like because again Liberia, prior to this had been 961 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,440 Speaker 1: they were very integrated into African the continent. Like there's 962 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: all these different economic and political organizations that are four 963 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,200 Speaker 1: different that all of these multiple African states will be 964 00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: a part of. Right even before uh, they're integrated in Africa. Yeah, 965 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,440 Speaker 1: but even after colonized state, it was still like not 966 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't like shitty like before they became like like 967 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,080 Speaker 1: before it was black imperialized. It was still a colony, 968 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,240 Speaker 1: right No, no, no, it was established by the US 969 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,200 Speaker 1: like it had just been people living in Africa like no, 970 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm talking, I'm sorry, I'm talking about the government. Dough 971 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 1: overthrows right the Toberian government, the America Liberian government. They're 972 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: integrated into the political I was math of Africa, right, Yeah, 973 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 1: so all of these when he overthrows the government, all 974 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,399 Speaker 1: of these he arrests all of these government officials who 975 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,440 Speaker 1: have who are like friends with the people running Nigeria 976 00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,880 Speaker 1: and like Kenya and all of these other countries. Right. 977 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: They they're in political organizations together. They're like managing trade deals, 978 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,719 Speaker 1: they're going on vacation, they're like there are they are 979 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,960 Speaker 1: buds with the other people who are in power in Africa, 980 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: And now they're in prison and Dough in a surprise moment, 981 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,080 Speaker 1: has them all executed by drunken soldiers on television. So 982 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,279 Speaker 1: I forgot this is like the eighties, baby, Oh my god. 983 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 1: So this this really pisss off a lot of other 984 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: people and like a lot of other African governmental leaders, 985 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,839 Speaker 1: right because like that's my fucking buddy, you just shot 986 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,520 Speaker 1: in the street, Like what the funk, dude? Um. So 987 00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: this causes a lot of folks in the international community 988 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,040 Speaker 1: to support his ouster. Uh. Still though the Reagan administration 989 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,760 Speaker 1: is like, hey, you're willing to let us land planes. 990 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,240 Speaker 1: They're like we'll play ball, you know. Uh. They invite 991 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 1: Dough to the White House. He meets with the President, 992 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,439 Speaker 1: where Ronald Reagan and what it might be an early 993 00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 1: senior moment, refers to him as Chairman Moe instead of 994 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,759 Speaker 1: Chairman Dough and do just kind of like goes with it. 995 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: You know, we haven't had to stop having these no, 996 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:13,319 Speaker 1: but there has to be a lock. You. Look, there's 997 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,080 Speaker 1: things we were all fine with the idea that you 998 00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,279 Speaker 1: can be too young to do certain things. Okay, maybe 999 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,920 Speaker 1: you can't be too old to do certain things exactly 1000 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 1: even now, I mean not whatever. There are so many 1001 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,160 Speaker 1: moments where like be in Congress, look, yeah, just oh 1002 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,560 Speaker 1: my god, we're being governed by people that are slowly 1003 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,239 Speaker 1: fading away. And you can't be president until thirty five, 1004 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: which is an implicit acknowledgement that the age you are 1005 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,080 Speaker 1: impacts your ability to do to the job property anyway, 1006 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: this is this is a rant for else another Yeah, 1007 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 1: so mo, which is what Reagan calls him. Uh assures 1008 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,839 Speaker 1: the Reagan administration that Liberia is totally going to return 1009 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: to democracy December of nineteen eighty five. Right, I need 1010 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,960 Speaker 1: a couple of years to get stuff into shape, right, 1011 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,080 Speaker 1: get purged the government of all these bad people, you know, 1012 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna fix stuff up and then I'm gonna stop 1013 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:13,040 Speaker 1: being dictator. Right nineteen eighty five where a democracy baby, Um, 1014 00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,919 Speaker 1: so Mo knows he does have to hold or Doe 1015 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,080 Speaker 1: knows he just does have to hold an election. Um correct, Yeah, 1016 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,360 Speaker 1: he knows he's got to hold an election. Um. But 1017 00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,800 Speaker 1: he also knows that like I'm not gonna have a 1018 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,239 Speaker 1: real election. So he does the kind of ship dictators do, right, 1019 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,359 Speaker 1: you know, um he and he cracks down. Every time 1020 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,120 Speaker 1: political parties will rise up, We'll find excuses to arrest them. 1021 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,560 Speaker 1: He's constantly arresting and purging people, including other folks he'd 1022 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,239 Speaker 1: carried out the coup with um and obviously a lot 1023 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,800 Speaker 1: of resistance starts to bubble up to his regime, and 1024 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,439 Speaker 1: the nexus of anti dough sentiment forms around a woman 1025 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:53,319 Speaker 1: named Ellen Johnson Surleaf. She's an economist who had been 1026 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,760 Speaker 1: educated in the US and had worked as an executive 1027 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: for City Bank. She decided to run for election alongside 1028 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,480 Speaker 1: Jackson f Doe, who is not related to Sergeant Dough 1029 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:07,360 Speaker 1: right separate does um and they's she comes back. She 1030 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,759 Speaker 1: comes back. That's one of the things she gets a 1031 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,520 Speaker 1: lot of, like early kind of respect is she like 1032 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,600 Speaker 1: leaves the US to go back to Liberia to run. Um, 1033 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:21,360 Speaker 1: So they run for president with the Liberian Action Party. Uh. 1034 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 1: The election is held largely so the bad Dough. I'm 1035 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,280 Speaker 1: gonna call him good Dough and bad Dough from this 1036 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: point on because it's going to get too confusing in 1037 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: the ways. Uh. And Doe is doing this because there's 1038 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,000 Speaker 1: like ninety three million dollars in US AID funds um 1039 00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,640 Speaker 1: that he wants, but he has to do an election first. Uh. 1040 00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,160 Speaker 1: He wins the election, but like immediately in every like 1041 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,800 Speaker 1: independent observer is like, well that was completely fraudules us. 1042 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,040 Speaker 1: The U S decides to work with Bad Dough anyway, 1043 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,520 Speaker 1: because again he's smarter than Tolbert. He's not gonna like 1044 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,560 Speaker 1: say no to the U S Military establishment. So Doe 1045 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,440 Speaker 1: sets to work carrying out happily carrying out an ethnic 1046 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,360 Speaker 1: cleansing in Nimba County where Jackson Doe had called home 1047 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,880 Speaker 1: because he gets to see where people are voting against him, 1048 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: He burns their ballots and then he sends his soldiers 1049 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: to massacre them. Um, so he most was the way 1050 00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,520 Speaker 1: just to see where he's hated the most. Yep, yep, 1051 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,600 Speaker 1: hell man. So his you know, again, the troops carrying 1052 00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 1: out these massacres are mostly krawn like him, right, because 1053 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: again he's very much and there's other ethnic groups that 1054 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,760 Speaker 1: are kind of allied with the Krown. Right. Um, this 1055 00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,960 Speaker 1: does really break down on like racial lines, tribal lines, 1056 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of whatever you want to call it. Um. But 1057 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 1: so he sends his krawn soldiers into this region which 1058 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,040 Speaker 1: is inhabited by other other people's um, and he massacres 1059 00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 1: a shipload of them because he sees them as like 1060 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,960 Speaker 1: enemies of the regime. Um. And whenever he captures men 1061 00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: who he had been like political leaders agitating against him, Uh, 1062 00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 1: he'll have them mutilated and have their corpses paraded through 1063 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,920 Speaker 1: the streets so soldiers can cut off pieces to eat 1064 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 1: or keep his souvenirs. Um. This isn't good for the economy, Sharine. 1065 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,160 Speaker 1: Now I'm not an economic expert, but I I I'm 1066 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,680 Speaker 1: not surprised to hear that this was like bad for money. Um, 1067 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 1: you might not want to invest in a country where 1068 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,400 Speaker 1: this is going on quite as much, you know, Um, 1069 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,480 Speaker 1: and versions exists. Remember so this, Yeah, tell, this is 1070 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 1: able to be down. People are looking at this and like, well, 1071 00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,520 Speaker 1: maybe I'm gonna pause on some of those developed those 1072 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,000 Speaker 1: building funds for a moment. I might want to wait 1073 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,120 Speaker 1: until this parading corpses thing is over. Yeah, so you 1074 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,960 Speaker 1: know it shakes out. So further economic problems are caused 1075 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,760 Speaker 1: by the fact that the Minister of Procurement shoe designer 1076 00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,800 Speaker 1: Charles Taylor, had embezzled something like a million designer. Yeah, 1077 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,000 Speaker 1: Chuck Taylor's he's the he's the one of what he's 1078 00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 1: the guy who designed the Chuck Taylor was Charles Taylor. Well, 1079 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,919 Speaker 1: he's the he's the Minister of Procurement for Liberia. Yeah. 1080 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: Why did you say that? As if it was like, like, well, 1081 00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,200 Speaker 1: how is that thing? You know? You've heard of Chuck Taylor? Yeah, 1082 00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:56,360 Speaker 1: but like I didn't know the inventor of fucking converse. Yeah, yeah, 1083 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 1: he's he's going to be He's a Liberian warlord. Don't 1084 00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,720 Speaker 1: look that up. Is that something everyone knows? Again? I 1085 01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:09,360 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, definitely common knowledge. I'm willfully ignorant so 1086 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 1: much of my time, so much of my my life. 1087 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,240 Speaker 1: I just can't handle this. That was a lie, Sharine. 1088 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I can't do this to you anymore. Yeah, 1089 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I was lying. I just it was just a joke. Well, no, 1090 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,160 Speaker 1: there's a Charles Taylor and embezzels a million dollars from 1091 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Liberry government later. The world is so fucked up and crazy. 1092 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,800 Speaker 1: I don't believe anything you say, Like was going to 1093 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,000 Speaker 1: burn my fucking com first, after this fucking episode, I 1094 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:34,800 Speaker 1: can't believe it was it was it was just a 1095 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,680 Speaker 1: joke because it get like Chuck Taylor's Charles Taylor. I 1096 01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: thought it was funny. I know, I know I'm gonna 1097 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,240 Speaker 1: get roads the internet. I don't care what I mean, Sharine, 1098 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,080 Speaker 1: This is why I tell everybody one lie. You should 1099 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,920 Speaker 1: never trust me, never trust Robert, never trust you. I 1100 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,000 Speaker 1: mean yeah, maybe maybe there's a level of me that 1101 01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,400 Speaker 1: trusts you. This isn't on you. This is on me, Sharine. 1102 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,360 Speaker 1: Firestone like Firestone, it's already like that's all real. That's 1103 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,640 Speaker 1: why we provide sources. Look, that's okay, that's a big 1104 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,640 Speaker 1: I know the Firesto thing is real, but it doesn't 1105 01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,400 Speaker 1: mean it's so far out that another fucking big American 1106 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: brand is rooted. I know, because like shoes and rubber. 1107 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,280 Speaker 1: I mean again, this we we could I could have 1108 01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,400 Speaker 1: just gone through with this and just waited for people 1109 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter to get really or ready, you wouldn't do that. 1110 01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: I felt bad, bad job, I felt bad. I felt 1111 01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,560 Speaker 1: that we've lied to me too. I lied to everybody once. 1112 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I, well, now I haven't lied to you yet, Shrine, 1113 01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: but I'll figure one out. Lying is the most human 1114 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,080 Speaker 1: quality you can have. So it's fine. I understand. Uh, 1115 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm just so excited. I'm just gonna it's okay, don't Sharine, 1116 01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,640 Speaker 1: trust me. I'm the one who's going to look bad 1117 01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,160 Speaker 1: as it was. No, it's I mean, because you were 1118 01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 1: so earnest about being angry about the converse. Guy lord, 1119 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,439 Speaker 1: It's okay. This is to all my gullible people out there. 1120 01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: Is that you. I hear you, and I have to 1121 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,120 Speaker 1: say it would have been really funny if if the 1122 01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,200 Speaker 1: actual Chuck Taylor guy had been a Liberian warlord like 1123 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,480 Speaker 1: that would have been hilarious. So Taylor had been born 1124 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,600 Speaker 1: in Liberia, but his dad was an Americo Liberian um 1125 01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 1: his mom though he's he's mixed. He's mixed kind of 1126 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,480 Speaker 1: between Americo Liberian and his mom is a member of 1127 01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,840 Speaker 1: the indigenous Gola tribe. Now that said, he is raised 1128 01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,200 Speaker 1: as an Americo Liberian. Right, Like the fact that his 1129 01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,720 Speaker 1: dad is means that, Um, there's obviously one of the 1130 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 1: things you have to say about Liberia, like kind of 1131 01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,760 Speaker 1: the racial cast system is not nearly what it is, 1132 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,000 Speaker 1: and like colonies that are are run by white people. Um, 1133 01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,840 Speaker 1: so Taylor benefits even though his mom is Indigenous and 1134 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,960 Speaker 1: his dad is Americo Liberian. He's raised Americo Liberrian. He 1135 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,560 Speaker 1: attends college in the United States, Bentley College in Massachusetts. 1136 01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,880 Speaker 1: Somebody else will have gone there and be like, holy shit, 1137 01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,280 Speaker 1: once we talk about this guy, Holy ship, this dude 1138 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,080 Speaker 1: went to my alma mater. Um he's but but the 1139 01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,800 Speaker 1: point is his early life, he's thoroughly Americanized. He speaks English, 1140 01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,080 Speaker 1: fairy like he I mean obviously, actually I should I 1141 01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,160 Speaker 1: should note here they all speak English. English is the 1142 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,760 Speaker 1: official language of Liberia. If you go to Liberia, like 1143 01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,280 Speaker 1: you don't need to learn. And now some of the 1144 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,040 Speaker 1: like there's a patois like accents are kind of different, 1145 01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,200 Speaker 1: like sort of like it is in in um parts 1146 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 1: of Louisiana, but it's English. Like you listen to these 1147 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,440 Speaker 1: like interviews with warlords and ship they're they're all speaking 1148 01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,480 Speaker 1: in English and stuff. Um, because again it's a colony 1149 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,080 Speaker 1: of the United States, right, Um, but he is he's 1150 01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: not just like he's he's incredibly Americanized. Um. His previous 1151 01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,880 Speaker 1: political experience came from rising through the ranks of a 1152 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: Liberian ex pact organization in Philadelphia. Uh. And when he 1153 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:44,760 Speaker 1: flies back or so, he goes back to Liberia after 1154 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,120 Speaker 1: Doe's revolution and gets a job in the government, and 1155 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 1: then he embezzles a bunch of money and he gets 1156 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,760 Speaker 1: kicked out. So he flees to the US because he 1157 01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,960 Speaker 1: doesn't want to get executed and paraded through the streets. 1158 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,600 Speaker 1: Doe tries to extradite him because he had almost certainly 1159 01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: actually committed the crimes he was being accused of. Um. 1160 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,360 Speaker 1: Charles Taylor is initially arrested by the United States, and 1161 01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,840 Speaker 1: we keep him in a correctional facility for two years 1162 01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:07,600 Speaker 1: while we're trying to decide what to do to the man. 1163 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,360 Speaker 1: But then, and I'm gonna quote again from the Liberian 1164 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,920 Speaker 1: Civil Wars, the story grows rather murky. Taylor escaped from 1165 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,439 Speaker 1: Plymouth House on the evening of September fifteenth, nineteen eighty five, 1166 01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,480 Speaker 1: apparently with the help of the CIA, responding to an 1167 01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,960 Speaker 1: obvious reluctance on the part of the government to extradite 1168 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,960 Speaker 1: Taylor to face almost certain execution at the moment he landed. 1169 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,720 Speaker 1: It is also possible that the CIA felt Taylor might 1170 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,920 Speaker 1: be useful, because if someone replaced or toppled Dough, Taylor 1171 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,600 Speaker 1: certainly seemed the most likely to do so. Either way, 1172 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,760 Speaker 1: The popular version of the story has it that Taylor 1173 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,360 Speaker 1: and three fellow escape pas cut through prison bars with 1174 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,320 Speaker 1: hack saws before lowering themselves to the ground outside on 1175 01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:46,080 Speaker 1: knotted bedsheets. More realistically, perhaps arrangements were made for his 1176 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,480 Speaker 1: cell to be left unlocked one night and he simply 1177 01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,000 Speaker 1: walked out. He was picked up by his wife, Jewel, 1178 01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,400 Speaker 1: at a local freeway exit, after which he dropped out 1179 01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,200 Speaker 1: of sight for a few months. Later, he reappeared in Ghana, 1180 01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,280 Speaker 1: having traveled to Africa via Mexico and Ghana. He was 1181 01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,040 Speaker 1: arrested in me on suspicion that he was somehow involved 1182 01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,400 Speaker 1: with the CIA, which tends to lean credence to the 1183 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: latter version of his escape. Taylor's lawyer at the time 1184 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 1: was Ramsey Clark, the former U s Attorney General, so 1185 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,720 Speaker 1: certainly there was money and influence floating around somewhere no 1186 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,880 Speaker 1: charges were ever brought against Taylor in America for his escape. 1187 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:20,800 Speaker 1: So he gets over to Ghana. Um and while he's 1188 01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:23,280 Speaker 1: in the US, he spends two years in custody. Right, 1189 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,920 Speaker 1: he gets the CIA kind of smuggles him out. Well, 1190 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,640 Speaker 1: all this is happening. Doe is in power in Liberia, 1191 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,600 Speaker 1: but there are constant coup attempts, right, or at least 1192 01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,480 Speaker 1: attempts at coup attempts that Doe cracks down on. And 1193 01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,560 Speaker 1: every time there's a threat to his reign, he does 1194 01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,880 Speaker 1: the same thing. He sends his soldiers to that region 1195 01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:41,760 Speaker 1: of the country and he massacres all of the men 1196 01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,600 Speaker 1: that he can find, you know, um and often like 1197 01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, rapes the women, kills baby like it's ugly. Ship, 1198 01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,560 Speaker 1: it's it's ethnic cleansing kind of, it's really nasty. Um. 1199 01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,440 Speaker 1: So by nine seven, Doe has murdered a lot of people, 1200 01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,760 Speaker 1: um and he has repeatedly purged ethnic groups. Um. So 1201 01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,720 Speaker 1: that's around the time when Charles Taylor makes his way 1202 01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,840 Speaker 1: to the Ivory Coast and he meets a guy who's 1203 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,840 Speaker 1: like a friend of the Avorian president who decides to 1204 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,960 Speaker 1: back him and his plans to overthrow dough. Now by 1205 01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,200 Speaker 1: this point, Doe has made the major mistake of pissing 1206 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,400 Speaker 1: off Momar Addafi. Um, because he again he's on the 1207 01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:24,720 Speaker 1: side of the United States, right, Um, and he the 1208 01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,440 Speaker 1: United States. I don't know if you're aware of this, 1209 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,200 Speaker 1: not big fans of momark A Daffi. Yeah, So Doe 1210 01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,240 Speaker 1: expels Libyan diplomats from his capital. Now this is a 1211 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,160 Speaker 1: problem because not only is Kaddafi kind of a petty dude, 1212 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,720 Speaker 1: he also runs a gigantic pan ideological training camp for insurgents. Right, 1213 01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,200 Speaker 1: if you are an insurgent and you want to learn 1214 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,080 Speaker 1: how to build bombs and shoot people, Momarkaddafi's got you. 1215 01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,880 Speaker 1: You're the i Ra, You're the your Palestinian or you're 1216 01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:53,840 Speaker 1: like he don't give a ship like Momar will take 1217 01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,400 Speaker 1: as long as you're like cool with Momar, He'll he'll 1218 01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,480 Speaker 1: train your dudes, you know, Ummary one eight hundred momer 1219 01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,640 Speaker 1: for all of your insurgent needs. So he and he 1220 01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,240 Speaker 1: and Taylor. So Momar Kadafi do pisses him off, and 1221 01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,560 Speaker 1: so Kadafi is like, one, I'm gonna get back at 1222 01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:13,840 Speaker 1: that son of a bitch. Um and he hears there's 1223 01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:17,480 Speaker 1: this motherfucker named Taylor who's got connections to the government 1224 01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,560 Speaker 1: of you know, in the Ivory Coast and ship. Um. 1225 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,280 Speaker 1: And so he and Taylor get into contact, and in 1226 01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,600 Speaker 1: very short order a number of militants who are like 1227 01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,520 Speaker 1: on Taylor's side. These are like generally like Liberians who've 1228 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:32,600 Speaker 1: had to flee the country because they were also associated 1229 01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,360 Speaker 1: with some sort of rebellion or another that Taylor's gathering 1230 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,280 Speaker 1: to him, these folks go over and get trained in Libya, right, um, 1231 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,520 Speaker 1: and again, good chance there's some CIA involvement here. It's 1232 01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:46,080 Speaker 1: very murky. Um. I assume they're everywhere. So yeah, they're 1233 01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,320 Speaker 1: always doing some ship. I mean, they certainly seems to 1234 01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,480 Speaker 1: have like helped Taylor get out right. Kadafi's maybe more 1235 01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,600 Speaker 1: a bigger part of like how he actually gets to 1236 01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:58,000 Speaker 1: carry out as it's whatever. On December nine, Charles Taylor 1237 01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,640 Speaker 1: and a hundred and sixty eight insurgents in her Liberia 1238 01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,200 Speaker 1: through uh the Ivory or yeah, the Ivory Coast. Um 1239 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,080 Speaker 1: Chuck makes an announcement through the BBC using a satellite 1240 01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: phone he'd been given by somebody uh again who knows 1241 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:13,560 Speaker 1: where he gets this kind of ship, that he has 1242 01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,160 Speaker 1: no personal ambitions for higher office. He just wants to 1243 01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:20,479 Speaker 1: liberate his people from President dough open civil war results 1244 01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,360 Speaker 1: resulting in bits in breaking out in kind of bits 1245 01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:27,639 Speaker 1: and pieces here and there um and gradually, like Taylor's 1246 01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,919 Speaker 1: forces start to make progress. They're pretty well organized, their competent. 1247 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,880 Speaker 1: They expand quickly, and more and more of the country 1248 01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,679 Speaker 1: starts to fall out of doze ability to control because 1249 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,600 Speaker 1: he's not really popular because of all the massacres, so 1250 01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,240 Speaker 1: he starts having his security forces round up hundreds and 1251 01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,720 Speaker 1: hundreds of residents of the capital from ethnic groups he 1252 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,840 Speaker 1: viewed as rebellious, and these people just disappear. Some of 1253 01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,560 Speaker 1: them do show back up headless on the streets, so 1254 01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,080 Speaker 1: citizens of the capital start greeting each other with the 1255 01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,200 Speaker 1: phrase glad to see you've still got your head um. 1256 01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,679 Speaker 1: Members of the yeah and members of the ethnic groups 1257 01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,679 Speaker 1: target by dose purges start flooding into Taylor's growing army. 1258 01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,640 Speaker 1: Right they get away from wherever the president controls, and 1259 01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them pick up guns. As they won victories, 1260 01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,800 Speaker 1: they replaced the initial weapons that they invade with the 1261 01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,040 Speaker 1: armies mostly equipped with these old Soviet Soviet like World 1262 01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:19,479 Speaker 1: War two Heiress submachine guns pps h s, and they 1263 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,479 Speaker 1: gradually replaced these with U S M sixteens from Doze 1264 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,280 Speaker 1: dead US backed fighters UM. And once his regular forces 1265 01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,160 Speaker 1: start to get real rifles, he hands these submachine guns 1266 01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,640 Speaker 1: off to little kids uh and he uses them to 1267 01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,639 Speaker 1: form what he calls his small boy units. Quote from 1268 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,040 Speaker 1: the Liberian Civil Wars. The bulk of advancing forces were 1269 01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,040 Speaker 1: locally recruited youth, handed guns, and fortified by alcohol and 1270 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,960 Speaker 1: cheaply sourced Chinese amphetamines we known colloquially as bubbles, and 1271 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,439 Speaker 1: of course a great deal of local marijuana. In much 1272 01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,360 Speaker 1: the same way as the Kron dominated AFL that's Doze 1273 01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,800 Speaker 1: Party took excruciatingly violent revenge against g O and Mano. 1274 01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,880 Speaker 1: These are other ethnic groups roving bands of armed youth 1275 01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,360 Speaker 1: singled out Krawn and and Dingo for similar treatment. Newsreel 1276 01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,920 Speaker 1: images of the Liberian Civil War, as the initial coup 1277 01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,960 Speaker 1: of inevitably be came, came to be characterized by images 1278 01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,960 Speaker 1: of children and young people, both male and female, dressed 1279 01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,320 Speaker 1: in civilian clothes, often in wigs and bizarre fancy dress, 1280 01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,920 Speaker 1: enacting scenes that might have been extracted from Lord of 1281 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,680 Speaker 1: the Flies. These were the first high profile displays of 1282 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,280 Speaker 1: child soldiers at work in the African context of war 1283 01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:27,000 Speaker 1: and the spectacle was utterly terrifying. So that's where we're 1284 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,080 Speaker 1: going to end for today. What a high note to 1285 01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:36,120 Speaker 1: just leave me on the vibes. Yeah, um, well I 1286 01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:38,280 Speaker 1: was hoping, I mean, I was hoping there's gonna be 1287 01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,920 Speaker 1: more more witchy stuff. To be honest, that stuff has 1288 01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,680 Speaker 1: been interesting to me. There will be next episode. Uh, 1289 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,080 Speaker 1: this is not going to be an interesting or it'll 1290 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:47,640 Speaker 1: be interesting. It's not going to be much of a 1291 01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,240 Speaker 1: you'll want to go elsewhere to learn and detail some 1292 01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,040 Speaker 1: more discussion of that. But we will talk about kind 1293 01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,439 Speaker 1: of one expression of these things from people who are 1294 01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,960 Speaker 1: like power hungry grifters. Um, you're not going to get 1295 01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,800 Speaker 1: a great sense of what the actual religious practices were 1296 01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:06,800 Speaker 1: among these people, but you will see some folks doing 1297 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:10,679 Speaker 1: fucked up ship and then deciding to be born again Christians. Yeah. 1298 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,760 Speaker 1: At this point, I'm not like, at a certain point 1299 01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:18,559 Speaker 1: when this is just me theorizing and not don't take 1300 01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,839 Speaker 1: any of these blankets statements seriously. But I would imagine 1301 01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:23,640 Speaker 1: that at a certain point, when like a religion or 1302 01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,280 Speaker 1: a practice is just used to gain power, it's more 1303 01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,760 Speaker 1: used for the violence versus the belief you know, I'm 1304 01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,080 Speaker 1: not like, I'm not convinced so many people believe it. 1305 01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm just convinced they're using it to benefit themselves or like, 1306 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:36,519 Speaker 1: you know, so that's just like, well, it's it's one 1307 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,639 Speaker 1: of those things like there's you know, you talk about 1308 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,639 Speaker 1: cannibalism and another kind of beliefs that involved taking pieces 1309 01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,439 Speaker 1: of the body. Certainly, thousands of years ago there were 1310 01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:46,200 Speaker 1: groups doing that in Africa, as there were in many 1311 01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,840 Speaker 1: other parts of the world for different reasons. But the 1312 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,360 Speaker 1: kind what you're going to see during the Liberian Civil 1313 01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,400 Speaker 1: War has about as much is related to those those 1314 01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,160 Speaker 1: indigenous belief practices in the same way that like a 1315 01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:05,360 Speaker 1: modern Baptist revival meeting is related to a Christian church 1316 01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:09,080 Speaker 1: meeting in like eight hundred and fifty a D you know, 1317 01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 1: to like a church service in Yeah, there is like 1318 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,360 Speaker 1: a line of descendants from one to the other, but 1319 01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:19,160 Speaker 1: it's changed tremendously over time for a variety of reasons, 1320 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,680 Speaker 1: and someone partaking in the eight D church service might 1321 01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:25,280 Speaker 1: look at a modern one and be like, well, I 1322 01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:31,040 Speaker 1: don't really know what the fuss going on here, you know, Yeah, anyway, 1323 01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:37,520 Speaker 1: any plugs at the end here? Shren I'm Sharine allegedly. 1324 01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:43,479 Speaker 1: Allegedly I'm on Twitter, show hero six, like six Instagram, 1325 01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:47,479 Speaker 1: Mr shar Hero. Um, I'm honestly like, I'm not really 1326 01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:52,880 Speaker 1: on the internet much these days. I'm trying have an 1327 01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,040 Speaker 1: impulsively everything all the time. But I think I just 1328 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,719 Speaker 1: need it just for this kind of stuff. But follow 1329 01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,439 Speaker 1: me you want. I'm posting less but the stuff I 1330 01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,920 Speaker 1: post gold, you know, so just stick around for that. Yeah, 1331 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,280 Speaker 1: but I will say I was thinking about this as 1332 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:13,960 Speaker 1: you were teaching me all these terrible things. Um, It's like, 1333 01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,760 Speaker 1: like sometimes I get frustrated, for example, that no one 1334 01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,560 Speaker 1: knows the history of Palestine or Syria or whatever, and 1335 01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,160 Speaker 1: there's like selective things, as you said, like people can 1336 01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,080 Speaker 1: there's so many there's so much bullshit and violence and 1337 01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,240 Speaker 1: terrible things in the world. You can only learn so 1338 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:30,960 Speaker 1: much about it. You can only handle so much of it. 1339 01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:33,719 Speaker 1: So I, for one, I am happy I know about 1340 01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 1: this terrible thing because I maybe was ignorant before. And 1341 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,040 Speaker 1: I hope people feel that way when they learn about 1342 01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:43,879 Speaker 1: other child terrible things. Yeah, you know, context is important, 1343 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,040 Speaker 1: not because it mitigates bad things, but it's like it 1344 01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:49,840 Speaker 1: would be fucked up to just get angry about the 1345 01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,640 Speaker 1: I r A bombing a bar and not recognize that 1346 01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,400 Speaker 1: that act of terrorism was directly influenced by the genocide 1347 01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:02,920 Speaker 1: of half of the Irish population, Right, that be fucked up. Likewise, yes, 1348 01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:06,639 Speaker 1: it's bad too. It's it's certainly bad to like shoot 1349 01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:11,479 Speaker 1: missiles into cities like uh Hamasta's. But also that's not 1350 01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,840 Speaker 1: happening in a vacuum, and it's happening in response to 1351 01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:16,599 Speaker 1: missiles being shot into there and a bunch of other 1352 01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,280 Speaker 1: fun up this history of like really horrible things. And likewise, 1353 01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 1: it is bad to make recruit child soldiers and carry 1354 01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:28,040 Speaker 1: out human sacrifices. It's not they didn't just decide to 1355 01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:31,839 Speaker 1: do that because Liberians are brutal. All of this occurred 1356 01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,799 Speaker 1: as part of a continuum of things that is heavily 1357 01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:40,160 Speaker 1: influenced by US policy and is heavily influenced by colonialism. Um. Again, 1358 01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:42,760 Speaker 1: it's just it's not a matter of like saying, well, 1359 01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:44,720 Speaker 1: this isn't bad because of this bad thing. It's a 1360 01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,760 Speaker 1: matter of you don't understand what's happening if you if 1361 01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,200 Speaker 1: you're only focused on one part of this picture. And 1362 01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,080 Speaker 1: the thing is the information we all receive is usually 1363 01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:57,160 Speaker 1: funneled through a white supremacist, fucking colonial you know what 1364 01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,400 Speaker 1: I mean, Like, it's all funneled through a different a 1365 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,360 Speaker 1: certain ends to make us think certain people are good. 1366 01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,719 Speaker 1: So people are bad. So I don't know, use your brains. 1367 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,360 Speaker 1: I suppose I will just mind too. I don't think 1368 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:14,000 Speaker 1: fucking Converse are evil. Yeah yeah, destroy your Converse shoes, UM, 1369 01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:19,280 Speaker 1: light their headquarters on fire, hunt down their corporate representatives 1370 01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,479 Speaker 1: in the street. No vengeance can be enough for Converse. 1371 01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,559 Speaker 1: Um Robert. On another note, we should probably plug two 1372 01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:29,760 Speaker 1: new podcasts on cool Zone Media that that are recently out, 1373 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:34,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't We We have what are now Sophie real quick sidebar? 1374 01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:40,400 Speaker 1: What is a podcast? All right? So this does not 1375 01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,280 Speaker 1: know where that's going. I was like, is he actually 1376 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,560 Speaker 1: doing this? It's like an edit note? No, okay, no, no, 1377 01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:48,120 Speaker 1: this is this is a bit. But also this is 1378 01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:52,320 Speaker 1: why I'm in charge. We have to there's Sophie. This 1379 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,400 Speaker 1: is like ten of why you're in charge. We have 1380 01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,200 Speaker 1: to podcasts and cool Zone Media that you should check 1381 01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,360 Speaker 1: out if you haven't checked matter already. We have a 1382 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,120 Speaker 1: Ghost Church by Jamie Loftus, which is a ghost church, 1383 01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:10,920 Speaker 1: fascinating podcast about American spiritually, Yes we are. And we 1384 01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,320 Speaker 1: also have a Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff hosted 1385 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,599 Speaker 1: by Margaret Killjoy that is in fact about cool people 1386 01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:21,000 Speaker 1: who did cool stuff. It's like it's like the allegedly 1387 01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,080 Speaker 1: the uplifting version of whatever. Then this podcast is you 1388 01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:28,519 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's great. Actually, Sharine, 1389 01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,000 Speaker 1: there's some really cool people who do some really cool 1390 01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:35,880 Speaker 1: stuff in this next Are you familiar with the story 1391 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:41,120 Speaker 1: of Lizza Strata? I stopped talking, Robert, okay, um, but yeah, 1392 01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:44,000 Speaker 1: check check those podcasts out, Sharina. Sharina actually works on 1393 01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:47,679 Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff and she and both 1394 01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,240 Speaker 1: Robert and Sharin are guests or upcoming guests depending on 1395 01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,160 Speaker 1: when this drops on the show, so check it out. 1396 01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,479 Speaker 1: We'm so happy, Sharine working with Margaret has taught you 1397 01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,280 Speaker 1: the most important thing about being an anarchist, which is 1398 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:07,600 Speaker 1: ang allegedly before ye in my vocab forever, and that 1399 01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:43,040 Speaker 1: is the episode. H h H. Behind the Bastards is 1400 01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:45,840 Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool 1401 01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,000 Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, 1402 01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,760 Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, 1403 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.