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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references

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Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: She's lived on both sides of the law. She's really

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Speaker 2: law savvy. She knows what it means to be a criminal,

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Speaker 2: and she had worked in law enforcement. She'd studied law

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Speaker 2: enforcement in college, so she has a sense for how

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Speaker 2: these cases could work. And she's also from Indian country,

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Speaker 2: so she understands that jurisdictional complexity that very often is

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Speaker 2: consequential for tribal members, but in this case was becoming

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Speaker 2: consequential for a non tribal member too.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor

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Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical

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Speaker 1: true crime podcast tenfold war Wicked On Exactly Right. I've

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Speaker 1: traveled around the world interviewing people for the show. I've

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Speaker 1: interviewed some people in person and some from my home

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Speaker 1: studio resume, and they are all excellent writers. They've had

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Speaker 1: so many great true crime stories, and now we want

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Speaker 1: to tell you those stories with details that have never

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Speaker 1: been published. Tenfold More Wicked presents Wicked Words is about

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Speaker 1: the choices that writers make. Good and bad. It's a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into the stories behind the stories. Author Sierra

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Speaker 1: Crane Murdoch has written a true crime book about a

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Speaker 1: woman investigating a true crime herself. It's called Yellowbird, Oil

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Speaker 1: Murder and a Woman's Search for Justice in Indian Country.

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Speaker 1: In this book, Sierra explores the story of an amateur

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Speaker 1: detective in her troubled history and how she manipulated people

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Speaker 1: to help solve a case.

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Speaker 2: I considered myself in some sense and environmental journalists an

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Speaker 2: investigative journalists, and I came to this crime story that

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Speaker 2: is at the center of my book Yellowbird, largely on accident,

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Speaker 2: just by continuing over the years to go back to

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Speaker 2: this reservation after that first story I wrote and reporting

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Speaker 2: other stories that emerge from that first one, and then

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Speaker 2: hearing about this crime, about the disappearance of a young

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Speaker 2: oil worker from the reservation, and becoming curious myself what

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Speaker 2: had happened to him. Going to the reservation. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was twenty three when I started going there, and

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Speaker 2: then spent largely the next eight years of my life

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Speaker 2: returning there and writing about the oil boom and writing

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Speaker 2: about the transformation of this place and the stories that

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Speaker 2: emerged out of that that has been, you know, the

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Speaker 2: defining journalistic experience of my adult life and really the

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Speaker 2: defining experience of my adult life.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about how you start the book.

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Speaker 2: So this is a story about a crime, but it's

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Speaker 2: largely a story about the woman who helped figure out

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Speaker 2: this crime. You could call her an amateur sleuth. Her

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Speaker 2: name is Lysa Yellowbird. And I met Lisa in twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen when I was going to the reservation to investigate

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Speaker 2: this crime, this disappearance of a year young oil worker.

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Speaker 2: He was white. He was working as a truck pusher,

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Speaker 2: which meant he just would order trucks to well sites

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Speaker 2: to bring water to use in fracking. So this water

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Speaker 2: would be pumped down the wells and that would sort

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Speaker 2: of like break apart the rock and the oil would

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Speaker 2: rush out. And he had been working in the Bachan

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Speaker 2: oil fields in North Dakota just for a few months

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Speaker 2: at that point, and he was working on the property

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Speaker 2: of the tribal chairman, essentially the president of the tribe,

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Speaker 2: this guy named tex Hall, and Lissa knew of tex

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Speaker 2: Hall because he was her chairman. He was a really

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Speaker 2: important political figure in Indian country at large, and he

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Speaker 2: also was in a certain sense of relative she was

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Speaker 2: related to him. A tribal chairman is essentially a president right.

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Speaker 2: A tribe is a sovereign nation, and that means that

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Speaker 2: the tribe has the inherent right to govern itself on

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Speaker 2: all sorts of matters. And over time, the federal government,

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Speaker 2: since the beginning of America as a governmental body, has

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Speaker 2: been shipping away at the sovereignty of tribes. But tribes

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Speaker 2: have this inherent right to govern their own people, to

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Speaker 2: govern their own land.

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Speaker 1: When she is growing up on the reservation, paint that

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Speaker 1: picture for me. What do people do and what was

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Speaker 1: life like?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the reservation was pretty quiet when Lissa was growing up.

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Speaker 2: Her mom was a professor at universities across North Dakota,

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Speaker 2: and so she was moving around a lot. And there's

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Speaker 2: this term urban Indian Native Americans who have grown up

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Speaker 2: in cities. But there is this constant relationship frequently that

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Speaker 2: people maintain with their home reservation because their family's still there,

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Speaker 2: their grandparents are still there, their uncles whoever. They're going

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Speaker 2: back for family reunions. They're going back frequently and maintaining

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Speaker 2: a close connection to this place that they're from, and

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Speaker 2: that was certainly the case for Lyssa. So she would

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Speaker 2: spend years here and there, going back, living on the reservation,

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Speaker 2: living back off of it, and it was really quiet.

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Speaker 2: There's an important historical peace to the reservation that becomes

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Speaker 2: really critical and understanding the story of the oil boom,

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Speaker 2: and that's something that happened in the nineteen fifties. The

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Speaker 2: tribe used to be the manatidatsa recra nation, which is

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Speaker 2: this assembly of three tribes twitch list of belongs. The

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Speaker 2: nation used to be highly self sufficient. A lot of

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Speaker 2: tribal members were farmers. They had pretty tight knit communities,

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Speaker 2: They had their own schools. A lot of students weren't

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Speaker 2: being sent actually off to boarding schools at that point.

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Speaker 2: There were sort of contained places for those communities to

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Speaker 2: really flourish on their own. And the nineteen nation really

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Speaker 2: weathered the depression in a really impressive way. But in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties, Congress presented what was called the Pisloane Plan.

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Speaker 2: The Pixloane Plan was to build a series of dams

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Speaker 2: on the Missouri River, and these dams flooded out land

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Speaker 2: that largely belonged to tribes. It was land that was

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Speaker 2: the most arable land, and it was where all the

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Speaker 2: villages were. And so between nineteen fifty nineteen fifty four,

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Speaker 2: the Mannahadatsa recre nation relocated ninety percent of its communities

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Speaker 2: up to higher ground and had to completely start over

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Speaker 2: from scratch.

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Speaker 1: Was that intentional from the government, Was that intentional to

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Speaker 1: drive them out?

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Speaker 2: It was intentional to locate the dams, specifically in places

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Speaker 2: where it would relocate native communities and not quite communities.

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Speaker 2: It was like, we want dams because we're going to

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Speaker 2: try to control the flooding and we're going to get

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Speaker 2: electricity to these farmers out there. But the people who

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Speaker 2: are going to suffer the consequences are going to be

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Speaker 2: the Native people.

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Speaker 1: So they moved up and then they had to start

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Speaker 1: all over again.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Melissa was born in the late sixties. She was born

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Speaker 2: kind of into the aftermath of this major relocation, and

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Speaker 2: it was a relocation that led to this diaspora of

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Speaker 2: Native people from the reservation. So when Lissa was growing

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Speaker 2: up there, it was a very poor place and it

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Speaker 2: was the only place she really considered home, and it

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Speaker 2: was a place where she could feel really free, where

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Speaker 2: she could sort of run out through all these draws

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Speaker 2: along the lake with her uncles and her cousins, and

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Speaker 2: they had horses, and her grandparents had a farm, and

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Speaker 2: so it was very pastoral. There was something really comforting

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Speaker 2: to her about that place as well.

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Speaker 1: So how do we get from her being in what

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Speaker 1: seems to be comfortable and sort of an idyllic place

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Speaker 1: to drugs later on in life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the stories I unfold fairly slowly

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Speaker 2: over the course of the book. Why Lyssa, who's someone

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Speaker 2: who's brilliant, who has a lot of familial love surrounding her,

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Speaker 2: a lot of support surrounding her. Why she fell so

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Speaker 2: hard into this really difficult lifestyle that was ultimately pretty

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Speaker 2: damaging for her and for some people around her. And

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Speaker 2: a lot of it has to do with traumas that

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Speaker 2: she experienced when she was younger, and the shame of

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Speaker 2: those traumas. She has several kids, and she would have

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Speaker 2: these children taken away from her because something happened, right,

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Speaker 2: and then the kids being taken away from her would

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Speaker 2: then sort of compel her to want to use again,

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Speaker 2: and so she would go through these cycles of shame

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Speaker 2: and becoming addicted again, And it lasted for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Does she remain close to her mom during this whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she does remain close to her mom. Her mom

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Speaker 2: is a really important figure in her life in the

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Speaker 2: sense that Lissa's her only daughter. Her mom wants her

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Speaker 2: to survive. Of course, she loves her deeply, and she's

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Speaker 2: doing everything that she possibly can to try to get

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Speaker 2: Lisa to stop using drugs or to get Lissa to

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Speaker 2: be more present for her children, And this causes a

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Speaker 2: lot of conflict between them, right because sometimes it's her

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Speaker 2: own mom who reports her to police.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting, and there has to be some

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Speaker 1: sort of a turning point, or maybe not. Is she

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Speaker 1: just caught in some sort of sting.

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Speaker 2: At some point, Lisa had been followed for a long

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Speaker 2: time by several investigators who were trying to break apart

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Speaker 2: a drug ring in mine not North Dakota or Lyssa

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Speaker 2: was living in the early two thousands, so she'd been

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Speaker 2: followed by these investigators and eventually they caught up with her.

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Speaker 2: She was dealing and using math at that time, and

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Speaker 2: she was caught twice and she was given to concurrent

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Speaker 2: prison sentences of fifteen years, and she actually ended up

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Speaker 2: serving only three of those years.

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Speaker 1: So she returns in two thousand and nine after serving

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Speaker 1: three years of a fifteen year sentence, and things have

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Speaker 1: changed on the reservation. We've gone from what sounds to

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Speaker 1: me like farmland and what does she find when she returns.

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Speaker 2: So when she gets back to the reservation around two

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Speaker 2: thousand and nine twenty ten, most of the reservation land

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Speaker 2: has been leased to oil companies. And this was something

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Speaker 2: that happened pretty quickly. It happened pretty much by the

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Speaker 2: end of two thousand and eight, almost the entire reservation

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Speaker 2: had been leased, and these companies had come in and

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Speaker 2: had hired people within the tribe who had some sort

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Speaker 2: of standing right. So tex Hall, for example, was hired

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Speaker 2: as a landman for a oil company. Where these relatives

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Speaker 2: would go around and they would knock on people's doors

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Speaker 2: and they'd say, hey, this company wants to lease your

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Speaker 2: land for oil drilling. What do you say. This is

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Speaker 2: the amount of money they're offering as an upfront bonus,

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Speaker 2: and in the end you'll end up with this much

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Speaker 2: in royalties here. Sign here, And pretty quickly a majority

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Speaker 2: of tribal members signed those rights away. And so when

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Speaker 2: Lissa arrived, the drilling was really just beginning. And all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, this community, which you know, wasn't solely

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Speaker 2: Native American, wasn't solely composed of members of the men,

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Speaker 2: and that's a recrenation. All of a sudden, there was

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Speaker 2: this influx of non indigenous people to the reservation. And

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Speaker 2: this wasented a really interesting and a really difficult problem

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Speaker 2: in that tribes have no criminal jurisdiction over non native

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Speaker 2: people within the boundaries of their own reservation. So the

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Speaker 2: reservation's popular was tripling to quadrupling with people over whom

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Speaker 2: their police force had zero control. I mean, they could

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Speaker 2: offer like a traffic ticket. That's pretty much it.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So let me see if I have this straight.

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Speaker 1: And the second part might be wrong. So the non

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Speaker 1: indigenous people who now are on the reservation because of

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Speaker 1: the oil boom, the Indigenous police department, I guess, is

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Speaker 1: that what it would be would have no jurisdiction over them.

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Speaker 1: But is it right to say that the US or

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Speaker 1: state investigators have no jurisdiction over anyone on the reservations?

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Speaker 1: Is that right too?

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Speaker 2: This is where it gets complicated. So you're getting at it.

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Speaker 1: So these guys can do anything they want because nobody

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Speaker 1: can get to them, right well.

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Speaker 2: So here's the thing. They don't technically have impunity and

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Speaker 2: the reservation. Right, if a crime is committed between a

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Speaker 2: non tribal member and a non tribal member, right, both

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Speaker 2: victim and perpetrator are non tribal members, then that case

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Speaker 2: belongs to the state. If either the victim or the

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Speaker 2: perpetrator is a member of the tribe, then that case

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Speaker 2: belongs to the FEDS. If it's any sort of major crime,

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Speaker 2: but also if it's like a minor crime. And the

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Speaker 2: problem is that a lot of these minor crimes end

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Speaker 2: up slipping through the cracks as well, because there's no

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Speaker 2: one with the money or desire to actually take on

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Speaker 2: those crimes. You end up with this jurisdictional tangle where

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Speaker 2: very often you need to actually know the race or

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Speaker 2: know the political affiliation of the perpetrator and victim before

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Speaker 2: you're even able to begin assigning investigators to a case,

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Speaker 2: which becomes really complicated, right because oftentimes cases are a

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Speaker 2: matter of time, Right, Like, the longer you take to

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Speaker 2: begin investigating, the more time you're giving for that evidence

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Speaker 2: to sort of slip away or get buried or just

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Speaker 2: disappear altogether.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that we should shift into the actual

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Speaker 1: crime that pulled Lissa into some of this. So let's

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Speaker 1: just start with she gets back at two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: twenty ten. Does she stay sober like her family hopes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she does, and I think it's remarkable, sort of

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Speaker 2: even to her. She has told me, you know, I

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Speaker 2: didn't necessarily expect to stay sober. And there was this

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Speaker 2: moment when she got back and she went to an

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Speaker 2: old storage unit to get couches and other furniture to

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Speaker 2: furnish her new apartment, and she had all these crates

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Speaker 2: of documents that she had saved. She's incredible documentation, which

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Speaker 2: was what made writing this book such a dream. But

245
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Speaker 2: she had saved all of her court documents and all

246
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Speaker 2: of her rest records from before. And in one of

247
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Speaker 2: these boxes, in one of these plastic crates, she found

248
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Speaker 2: a little bit of meth and she held on to

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Speaker 2: it for a little while, and then one day she

250
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Speaker 2: just flushed it down the toilet. Wow, that was the

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Speaker 2: closest she came, she says, to using again, But she didn't.

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Speaker 2: And instead, what she did, and sort of what her

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Speaker 2: children would accuse her of, was that she placed one

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Speaker 2: addiction with another, and her addiction became searching for Christopher

255
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Speaker 2: Clark and trying to figure out what had happened to him.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about Christopher Clark.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Christopher Clark was from the Pacific Northwest. He grew

258
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Speaker 2: up in western Washington and had spent some time in Texas.

259
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Speaker 2: He'd actually gone to Texas right before the buck and

260
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Speaker 2: oil boom to work at a car dealership and live

261
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Speaker 2: with his girlfriend. And then he and his girlfriend broke

262
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Speaker 2: up and he ran into a friend in Texas, a

263
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Speaker 2: friend he actually knew from Washington. They had been motorcycle

264
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 2: racers together, and his friends and his wife, This guy,

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Speaker 2: James Hendrickson and his wife, Sarah Kreveling, told Casey, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you know there's this oil boom going on in North Dakota.

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Speaker 2: We're thinking of getting some trucks and starting this company.

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Speaker 2: You should come with us. And at first he wasn't

269
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Speaker 2: really inclined to do it, but then after his breakup

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Speaker 2: he called them back and said, yeah, I'll come up

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Speaker 2: to North Dakota. So he came up to North Dakota

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Speaker 2: and he lived with James and Sarah in a little

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Speaker 2: t by the lake on the reservation, and they started

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Speaker 2: out working for a different trucking company, just sort of contracting.

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Speaker 2: And then one day James Hendrickson met Tex Hall, the

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Speaker 2: chairman of the tribe, and it seems likely that James

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Speaker 2: kind of knew that Tech's had a powerful position on

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Speaker 2: the reservation and that he would be someone who maybe

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Speaker 2: would be really helpful to their business, and he just

280
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Speaker 2: kind of stumbled across Texas house one day and he

281
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Speaker 2: had an empty gas can and he said, Hey, I've

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Speaker 2: run out of gas. Can you help me? And Tex

283
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Speaker 2: said yeah, sure and gave him some gas. And then

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Speaker 2: he came back the next day and said, hey, you know,

285
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Speaker 2: I've got this trucking company wondering if I can run

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Speaker 2: some trucks with you. And Tex was basically like, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: that sounds fine to me. What do you have? And

288
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Speaker 2: so he created this very convenient partnership right where there

289
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Speaker 2: are laws on reservations as to who can actually own

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Speaker 2: companies and who gets the first contracts when it comes

291
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Speaker 2: to construction or really any industry. And that's to help

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Speaker 2: boost the tribal sovereignty of these tribes so that they

293
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Speaker 2: could be giving preference to their own members or giving

294
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Speaker 2: their preference to indigenous business owners to help keep money

295
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Speaker 2: within their own economy. But there are loopholes to that,

296
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Speaker 2: and James Henrickson found one of those loopholes through tex So.

297
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Speaker 2: They had this trucking company and it was going really well.

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Speaker 2: They had quite a bit of business. And in February

299
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Speaker 2: of twenty twelve, Casey disappeared and he was supposed to

300
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Speaker 2: go on vacation. He had told some people that maybe

301
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Speaker 2: he was going to go see his grandpa and Oregon

302
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Speaker 2: and go from there. And before he went on vacation,

303
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 2: he drove to the trucking company to tex house property

304
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Speaker 2: and he was dropping off his credit card, his company

305
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 2: credit card, and then supposedly he took off and no

306
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Speaker 2: one saw him again.

307
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Speaker 1: How does everybody know about the story?

308
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 2: Casey's mother hadn't heard from him for several months. She

309
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 2: was already a little bit estranged from Casey. And it

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00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 2: was really his friends, a friend of his who worked

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Speaker 2: at the trucking company, and then also his roommate who

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00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 2: started to become really concerned. Investigators started looking in to it,

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Speaker 2: but also made no progress and also thought, this is

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Speaker 2: a transient scene here. Guys are moving in out of

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Speaker 2: the oil fields all the time. Just wait he'll probably

316
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Speaker 2: pop up. So Casey's mom was the one who began

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Speaker 2: to really sort of publicly ring the alarm bells, and

318
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,400
Speaker 2: she started posting on Facebook saying, I haven't heard from

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Speaker 2: my son in a very long time. She basically like

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Speaker 2: laid out all the details of when he had been

321
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Speaker 2: last heard from. And her posts started to gain some attention,

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Speaker 2: and then they started to circulate on the reservation and

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Speaker 2: Lisa saw them. She saw the Facebook posts, and she

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Speaker 2: reached out to Jill Williams, Casey's mother, and said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm really sorry about your son's disappearance. I'm a mother too.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to help you. Let me know what I

327
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 2: can do because this is tribal land and there are

328
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,880
Speaker 2: a lot of complicated jurisdictional issues, and I can help

329
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Speaker 2: you navigate that if you want. So.

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Speaker 1: She had never met Casey CLARKATCI.

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Speaker 2: She hadn't and this was one of the questions that

332
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Speaker 2: really drove me was why could she become so obsessed

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Speaker 2: with searching for a stranger right, someone she had no

334
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,600
Speaker 2: real personal connection to, and also someone who was white.

335
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Speaker 2: This story is an inversion of the classic white savior narrative.

336
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Speaker 2: She is a Native woman who is searching for this

337
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Speaker 2: young white man. And I think that's a very perplexing

338
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Speaker 2: narrative direction for a lot of people. It's like why

339
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Speaker 2: why would she care? And I think she genuinely cared

340
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Speaker 2: because she is a mother, and I think Melissa is

341
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 2: someone and this comes out later in her story, right,

342
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Speaker 2: She's someone who could have gone missing herself. And she

343
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Speaker 2: recognizes that there are certain people in this world whose

344
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 2: stories we overlook, and people who if they go missing,

345
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 2: won't really be paid attention to by law enforcement, or

346
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 2: if their cases are investigated, when not much progress is made,

347
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 2: they'll just be dropped. And she saw herself as someone

348
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,360
Speaker 2: who was devalued by society, and she saw Casey as

349
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Speaker 2: someone who, being part of this movement of young, transient

350
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Speaker 2: young men, was also devalued by society.

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Speaker 1: So she gets in touch with Casey's mom and says,

352
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Speaker 1: I want to help. What happens next?

353
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so listen and Jill Tima and Lisa begins by saying, Okay, well, text,

354
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 2: he's a stand up guy. All my relatives voted for

355
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Speaker 2: him in the election. You know, he's really important in

356
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 2: Indian country. He's best friends with my stepdad. Like I'll

357
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Speaker 2: get to him, don't worry. So Lisa starts reaching out

358
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 2: to text and she gets no answer. She starts calling

359
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 2: tribal offices, she gets no answer, and she's really confused

360
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,439
Speaker 2: by this. She thinks, gosh, if someone disappeared from your

361
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 2: property and you're an important political figure, wouldn't you want

362
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 2: to try to figure out what happened, not only just

363
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 2: from a moral standpoint, but also just from the fact

364
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,239
Speaker 2: that this could really come back and bite you if

365
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 2: you're trying to win future elections. So she was concerned

366
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: about that, and they really weren't making that much progress.

367
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 2: Lisa began speaking to some of Casey's friends, and she

368
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: spoke to his former roommate, this guy named Jed Parker,

369
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: and Judge was like a deadhead from North Carolina. He

370
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 2: hated the oil boom. He's kind of an environmentalist, but

371
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 2: he was up there because he just had gone through

372
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,239
Speaker 2: divorce and needed to make some money to send back

373
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Speaker 2: to his kids. And Judd was really concerned about Casey.

374
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Speaker 2: He was one of the first people who had sort

375
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Speaker 2: of sounded the alarm about his disappearance. And jud calls James,

376
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: Casey's friend who had recruited him to the oil fields

377
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Speaker 2: and who ran that oil company.

378
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Speaker 1: I've been wondering about James, because you haven't mentioned James

379
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Speaker 1: at all about him being concerned about this, because he

380
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: would be the best source, right he was working with Casey.

381
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so Jed asked James and he says, you've

382
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 2: got to know what happened to him. I mean, you're

383
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: his best friend. And James goes, no, you know, I'm

384
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: not really his best friend, like Casey and I weren't

385
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 2: really that close. And it goes, oh, okay, interesting, Well,

386
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 2: you know, let me know if you hear anything. And

387
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 2: then Jed learns something, and he learns that Casey had

388
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,719
Speaker 2: been really not happy working for this company. He had

389
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 2: been overworked, he was stressed. He felt like James was

390
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 2: giving him too many hours and not enough pay. And

391
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: Casey had connected with a friend and also with a

392
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 2: tribal member who was trying to start her own trucking company,

393
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Speaker 2: and they had talked about going off on their own

394
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: and doing their own thing, and Casey hadn't told James

395
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 2: this yet. But apparently Jed learns James had found out

396
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 2: that Casey was doing this behind us back. So jud

397
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: calls James again and he says, Hey, I just heard

398
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 2: that Casey was going to start this new company and

399
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 2: maybe take some of this contracts with him, And James says, yeah,

400
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 2: can you believe that that my best friend would do

401
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 2: that to me? So that's when Judge became really suspicious

402
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: of James, and so he shares this story with Lisa

403
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 2: and he says, you know, I think James is involved.

404
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: And Lisa at this point has been speaking to a

405
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 2: lot of people involved in the company who knew Casey,

406
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 2: and a lot of them have also said that they

407
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: don't totally trust James, so they think something might be

408
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: going on with him. Not only that, but James gets

409
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: called in by some official investigators, some North Dakota state investigators.

410
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: I was wondering about that. Who's involved at this point,

411
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: any tribal investigators, state or federal which are leading any

412
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: of this.

413
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: At this point, it was state, okay, because he was

414
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: non native. The Feds didn't have necessarily any reason at

415
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 2: this point to get involved. It's not a crime, right

416
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: until you have a body, right, right, and so it

417
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: was just a missing person's investigation, okay. So at this

418
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 2: point it belonged to the state of North Dakota.

419
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: At least they're involved though, which I'm sure gave Joe

420
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: and Lissa a lot of relief knowing that at least

421
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 1: somebody's investigating.

422
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the state investigator called James in and interviewed him

423
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: and just something seemed weird to him about James, that

424
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 2: it seemed like he was not necessarily telling him the

425
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: whole truth. So that's really just what Lissa and Jill

426
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: had to work with very little information. But they did

427
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: have a person of interest. They couldn't call him a

428
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 2: suspect yet, because again it wasn't a crime, but they

429
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: had a person of interest, and the state investigators had

430
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: memed him also a person of interest.

431
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: If you're thinking like an investigator, right, so you are

432
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: going to somebody who might have had a conflict with him,

433
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: which could have been James. If Casey is planning to

434
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: take his business away, part of the business away, so

435
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: then you're also looking at the last place where Casey was,

436
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: which is at the tribal chairman house, Tex Hall. If

437
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 1: we involve Text, don't we then have to involve the

438
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: federal government at that point? I mean, is there a

439
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: point where tex gets involved?

440
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: So Text was also being questioned, but he also didn't

441
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: really know anything. There was a lot of confusion around

442
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: how well does text actually know James, how well does

443
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 2: texts actually know his wife Sarah?

444
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: And they still haven't found Casey Clark's body at this point,

445
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: So where do Lisa and Casey's mom and the State

446
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: police go from here?

447
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: So the State police are sort of they're stuck, and

448
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: so Lissa does two things. The first thing is that

449
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: she says, you know what, we need more investigative power

450
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: in this. We need to get a FEDS involved. And

451
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: so she goes to this agent, the state agent actually

452
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 2: named Mike Marcus, who is in Mine, not the town

453
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: where Lissa was formally arrested. And she goes to the

454
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: police department where she the last time she was handcuffed

455
00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 2: a prisoner. Yeah, and she looks up up the guy

456
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: who arrested her because he was someone that she kind

457
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 2: of trusted. She had like an ongoing conversation with this

458
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: investigator when he was investigating her for drugs. He kind

459
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 2: of liked her even though she was committing these crimes.

460
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: Lissa is like a pretty agreeable, likable person in a

461
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 2: lot of ways, and so they kind of had this relationship,

462
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: and she says, yeah, I know Mike was the person

463
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: who sent me to prison, but I think I could

464
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: get him to help with this case. And right before that,

465
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: she goes out to Oregon. She takes a drive all

466
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: the way up to Bend, Oregon. She meets Jill, and

467
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: Jill comes with her and they go to the courthouse

468
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: and Lisa digs up every possible court record she can

469
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: on James Hendrickson, and she learns that he has a

470
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: bit of a criminal history as well, that he was

471
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: arrested for operating a large marijuana operation, that he had

472
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: been involved in potentially manufacturing some like oxy cotton like pills,

473
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: that he had stolen a trailer, that he had been

474
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: involved in assault of his former wife.

475
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: Wow.

476
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: And so she begins to sort of follow the paper

477
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 2: trail on James, and she basically like gets copies of

478
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: about a five four hundred to five hundred page stack

479
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: of documents on James, and she brings it back with

480
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: her to North Dakota. She makes copies of the stack

481
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 2: and she actually mails one to text Hall and then

482
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: she takes the other stack and she brings it to

483
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: this state agent Mike Marcus, and she says, you got

484
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: to pay attention to this guy. He's actually on probation

485
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: right now, and I think he's involved, and is there

486
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: any way you can get him arrested so that we

487
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: can investigate this other potential crime that he's now involved in.

488
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: So the agent she brings these documents, who kind of

489
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: ignores her.

490
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: Mike marcus, Yeah, he did arrest her, so I assume

491
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: that he was skeptical, okay.

492
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: And he told me I just thought she was going

493
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: in and out of addiction again. He also did entrusted

494
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: be sober. But one day, a Department of Homeland Security agent,

495
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: a young agent named Derek Drudell, wanders into Mike's office

496
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: and sees some papers on his desk and he's like,

497
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: what's this And he sees the documentation of this crime

498
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: that James had committed before, which was he had been

499
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: caught trying to acquire ingredients to manufacture pills, and Derek

500
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 2: becomes really interested in the strek. Trudell becomes interested in

501
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: the crime and asks Mike if he can start looking

502
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: into it, and so he and Lissa connect and he

503
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: decides that one of the things that he'll do is

504
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 2: get phone data from James and Casey from the day

505
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: that Casey disappeared, and through that phone data they learn

506
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: that Casey's and James's phones moved in tandem that afternoon

507
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 2: that Casey supposedly disappeared.

508
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Where did they go?

509
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: Northwest of the reservation to the town of Willis, And

510
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: actually in Williston was the place where Casey's truck was discovered.

511
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so they found destruck, but then not his body.

512
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: Did they find the cell phone? Were they able to

513
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: get close to where the cell phone was?

514
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 2: No, they didn't find the cell phone.

515
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, now they're making progress. So now they can

516
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: put James with Casey. He was obviously the last person

517
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: to see him at all, versus alive. What's the next

518
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: big thing?

519
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: So they're still stuck. Still, you don't have Casey's body,

520
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: don't know where he's gone. It's still not a crime yet.

521
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: So Lisa starts resorting to these sort of extra legal tactics.

522
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: She begins posting James's name online and his wife's name.

523
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: Oh no, So she goes to Jill and she gets

524
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: a series of photographs of Casey from his childhood and

525
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: also his adulthood. She basically tells the story of his

526
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: life in these photos, and she sets it to music

527
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: and she makes this video and she puts it on

528
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: YouTube and the video sort of ends with pictures of

529
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: James and Sarah suggesting that they might be responsible for

530
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: his disappearance. And the video gets taken down.

531
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding.

532
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: James and Sarah report it and they're like, this is

533
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: libelss take it down. So it gets taken down and

534
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: she keeps reloading it. She reloads it and reloads it,

535
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: and she gets hundreds of thousands of views on this video.

536
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: She and Jill start getting all these tips that pour in,

537
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: tips that make them even more suspicious of James. And

538
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: then Lisa has this idea. One of the people who

539
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: reaches out to her is an investor in James's trucking company,

540
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: and he has a lot of money, and Lissa doesn't

541
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: have a lot of money, but she's got a lot

542
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: of ideas. This investor is upset because he never got

543
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 2: paid back what he believed he was owed by James,

544
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: and so he wants to collaborate with Lisa too in

545
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: trying to hold James accountable for something. And so Lisa says,

546
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: that's great, Okay, what do you think about flyers, And

547
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: they end up designing this flyer with Jane and Sarah's

548
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: photographs with just the words beware across the top of it,

549
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 2: with a list of James Pryors underneath the photograph and

550
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: then a paragraph about how he is a person of

551
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: interest in Casey's disappearance, And they print over five thousand

552
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: of these flyers, and Lisa gets some sent to her

553
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: apartment in these boxes, and then she decides that she's

554
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: going to start a website where people can go for

555
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: more information, and she gets especially made stamp and she

556
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: hands stamps the web address on all of the envelopes

557
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: of all these flyers, and then they're pre addressed to

558
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: every single home and business in the Bachan region. And

559
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: so then she mails them and she puts as the

560
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: return address James and Sarah's PO box.

561
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: That is next level. Does anything come of this, this

562
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: next sort of exploit that she does. Does she get

563
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: any new information out of that?

564
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: So at the same time, she reaches out to Sarah

565
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: Reveling James's wife, and she says to Sarah, I know

566
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: Jill has been saying these mean things about you online,

567
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: and I would really like to know the whole story,

568
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 2: and I think that maybe the story is different from

569
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: the one that Jill's telling you. And she sort of

570
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: begins to play a bit of a double agent. You know,

571
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: I would really love to hear the truth from you.

572
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: Do you want to talk. I can help you get

573
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: the truth out there if you are this worried about

574
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: Jill saying these mean things about you online. So Sarah

575
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: didn't know that Lisa had made the flyers, and Lisa

576
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: meanwhile was playing double agent and trying to help Sarah

577
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: figure out who made the flyers. Wow, So she would

578
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: sort of text Sarah, well, why don't you try this,

579
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: Why don't you call this person? Why don't you see

580
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: where the print shops are in North Dakota and see

581
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: if you can track it down that way. And then meanwhile,

582
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: Sarah was getting all these undeliverable flyers sort of stacking

583
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: into her own po box. As a result, tex Hall

584
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: dropped his partnership with James and Sarah, and suddenly James

585
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: and Sarah could no longer operate their trucking company on

586
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: the reservation. They did lose their business and they had

587
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: to restart in another place.

588
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: So what ultimately did Lisa learn from Sarah about Casey

589
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: Clark and what happened to him.

590
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 2: Sarah told Lisa that on the day that Casey came

591
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: to the office, he had seemed really excited to go

592
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: on vacation. They had talked briefly, and then Casey had

593
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: gone out to talk to James and Sarah never saw

594
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 2: him again. And Lisa mostly believes Sarah, but she also

595
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: believes that Sarah suspects more than she lets on. Lissa's

596
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: sense is that Sarah does sort of deep down know

597
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: that maybe something really bad has happened and maybe James

598
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 2: is involved, but it is so tragic in her mind

599
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: to even allow herself to believe it, and to even

600
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: sort of allow herself to believe that her marriage should

601
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: probably come to an end, that she's unwilling to even

602
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: consider some of these narratives that Lissa's suggesting to her.

603
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: When Lissa says, like, what if James did do it?

604
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: What then? And Sarah sort of continually says to Lissa,

605
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: you know, I've thought, well maybe, but I just I

606
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: really don't see how he could have ever done anything

607
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: that awful. So they developed this really complex relationship.

608
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: Do they find him, They don't.

609
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: Find Casey Clark. But what happens is there's another murder.

610
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: So Lisa keeps searching for Casey Clark. She searches, she searches.

611
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: She says, we're not going to be able to bring

612
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: this case to trial unless we have a body. It's

613
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: still not a crime until there's a body. Then in

614
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: December of twenty thirteen, she has a text message from

615
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: Texall and a guy by the name of Doug Carlyle

616
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: was murdered and spoke in Washington, and Doug was a

617
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: new business partner of James Hendrickson's Oh Boy, And so

618
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: Lisa immediately has a sense for what has happened, and

619
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: she starts putting two and two together, and she starts

620
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: calling investigators there, and the Department of Homeland Security agent

621
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: who she had roped into this case starts calling as well.

622
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: And there's a series of arrests and a series of interviews,

623
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 2: not with James yet, but with several people who worked

624
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: with his company. And when investigators go in and they

625
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: get to the crime scene, they discover lying on the

626
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 2: ground in the backyard of Doug Carlyle's house a glove,

627
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: a welding glove, and they submit that welding glove for

628
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 2: DNA analysis, and the analysis comes back linking the glove

629
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: to this man named Timothy Suko. And Timothy comes in

630
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: for an interview and he confesses to having murdered Doug Carlyle,

631
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: and then he also says, I have another thing I

632
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: can confess to. He basically offers to confess to killing Casey.

633
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: Clark On behalf of James.

634
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Timothy Suko was a hired hitman. And through

635
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 2: these interviews with Suko and with all of the other accomplices,

636
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: it begins to unravel this pretty complex set of murders

637
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: that James had ordered, only a few of which actually

638
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: were successful.

639
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: I mean, that's unbelievable. Does he say what happens specifically

640
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: with Casey and where his body might be?

641
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: He does. Yeah, So he gives a very detailed confession

642
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: and it's such a hard breaking story. And there was

643
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: this moment that was so so difficult to watch. I

644
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: watched his confession, you know, it was recorded, and there's

645
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 2: this moment when he describes killing Casey and James was there,

646
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: and then he sort of looks up from the table

647
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: at all these investigators crowded around him, and he says

648
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: he never intended to kill him, like it came on

649
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: to him. He was hired to beat him up originally.

650
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: And he sort of looks up and he says, you know,

651
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: I'm really not that violent. Yeah, And I think this

652
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: was this critical moment for me in understanding this story,

653
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: because I think it just indicated this level of denial,

654
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: this level of denial of like everyone's own capacity to

655
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: commit violence. And I think that was what I was

656
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: seeing playing out across this entire story and across the

657
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: oil boom, was this level of complicity mixed with this

658
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: denial right and inability to see ourselves clearly in the

659
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 2: narratives that I'm sort of like playing out inevitably around us.

660
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: So James goes to trial for just one murder, right,

661
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: just for the last businessman? Did they bring Casey up

662
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: into this?

663
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: He goes to trial for murdering both Casey Clark and

664
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: for murdering Douglas Carlisle. James was convicted. He was convicted

665
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: for both murders and also for operating a scheme to

666
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: distribute heroin on the reservation.

667
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: So they were never able to find case Clark's body,

668
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: Is that right?

669
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: So? Yeah, after Timothy murdered Casey. They drove his truck

670
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 2: up to Williston and that's where his truck was found,

671
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 2: and there were multiple people involved. They took the evidence

672
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: out to this other well site and they burned Casey's clothing,

673
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 2: they got rid of his cell phone, and then they

674
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: went down into the Little Missouri River area. It's called

675
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: the bad Lands, and it's just this like really complex

676
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: topography of canyons and masas. And they drove back in

677
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 2: there and they dug a hole. Well, Timothy dug a hole,

678
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: and he buried Casey there. The problem is that Timothy

679
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: had never been in that landscape before, and when he

680
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 2: came back with investigators, investigators brought him back several times.

681
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: When he came back, he got disoriented, and investigators would say,

682
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: you know, he really tried. You know, he had on

683
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 2: these belly chains and his orange jumpsuit and he would

684
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: tomp around the bad lands and he'd see something and

685
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: get an idea that, oh, that's where it was, and

686
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 2: then he'd sort of like take off in that direction

687
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: and they could barely keep up with him, even with

688
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: his belly chains on. He really wanted to find Casey,

689
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: both because he felt a tremendous amount of of spiritual

690
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: guilt around the crime, but also because he felt that

691
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 2: it would help him get a kinder sentence if he

692
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: could find Casey, and in the end he wasn't able to.

693
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: And Lisa still goes out there and searches.

694
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: And Jill, I'm assuming his mother does too.

695
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: She doesn't. Lisa says, I'm out there searching for people

696
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: when their families can no longer do that because it

697
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: was taking away from their living, whereas for me, it's

698
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 2: not taking away, it's giving me purpose. So I think

699
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 2: she understands that it's a real burden on families whose

700
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 2: members are missing because they don't have the closure of

701
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: knowing where that person is. There's a certain closure that

702
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: comes with having a body and being able to do

703
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: a burial and being able to do that sort of

704
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: final ceremonial goodbye, and I think that feels really important

705
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: to Lisa. But she also understands that sometimes it can

706
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: make families so obsessive that it takes away from them

707
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 2: living their own lives.

708
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Wicked Words, Joe Pompeo on

709
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: the Minister, the Congregant and many.

710
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: Suspects Eleanor had three bullets to her head, Edward had one.

711
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: Eleanor's throat was cut from ear to ear to the

712
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 3: point where she was nearly decapitated. The clothing was completely neat.

713
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: His arm was outstretched, her head rested on it. Her

714
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 3: hand was placed atop his leg. One of his calling

715
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: cards was placed near the bodies these love letters. So

716
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 3: is this very bizarre kind of chilling tableau.

717
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: My new book All That Is Wicked is available for

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Speaker 1: pre order now, including the audiobook. All that Is Wicked

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Speaker 1: is based on our first season of Tenfold War Wicked.

720
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Speaker 1: You might think you know the whole story of Killer

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Speaker 1: Edward Ruloff's crimes, but there's so much more. My book

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Speaker 1: American Sherlock is also available. This has been an exactly

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Speaker 1: right tenfold War media production. The producer is alexism Our

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Speaker 1: mixer is Ryo Baum, Our sound designer is Andrew Epen.

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Speaker 1: Curtis Heath is. Our composer Nick Toga did the artwork.

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Speaker 1: Il Sabrink designed the website. The executive producers are Georgia Hartstark,

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Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and Facebook at tenfold more Wicked and on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: tenfold more. And if you know of a historical crime

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Speaker 1: that could use some attention, especially if it happened in

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Speaker 1: your family, email us at info at tenfoldwoar wicked dot com.

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Speaker 1: Wicked Words