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Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks. Welcome to Amy and TJ Presents. And

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Speaker 1: today a man in Indiana shot and killed a woman

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Speaker 1: who had shown up to his house just to clean

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Speaker 1: the house. He has yes been charged, but he has

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Speaker 1: a defense, folks, stand your ground. And with that, welcome

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Speaker 1: to this episode of Amy and TJ Presents. DJ Holmes

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Speaker 1: here alongside Amy roboch Robes. This is going to be

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Speaker 1: another case that we have these stand your ground laws

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Speaker 1: getting national attention.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: And the concern is that sometimes these laws a lot

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Speaker 3: of folks believe make homeowners especially feel like they have

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Speaker 3: the right to defend their property, their family with deadly force,

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Speaker 3: no matter what, and that just isn't the case.

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Speaker 1: And some try to interpret the law just as what

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Speaker 1: you said, I can defend my home no matter what,

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Speaker 1: with deadly force. And this is a case Robes that

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to have some tricky, tricky legal questions.

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Speaker 1: This story comes to us out of Indiana, outside of Indianapolis,

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Speaker 1: a town is called, of all things, White's Town. Do

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Speaker 1: I have that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you do. It's called Whitewn.

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Speaker 1: Whitestown, a suburb of Indianapolis. But this is on November fifth,

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Speaker 1: that a woman showed up to a home with her

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Speaker 1: husband cleaning crew. They're trying to open the door to

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Speaker 1: get into this home. Just before seven am. Shot rings out.

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Speaker 1: Homeowner inside awakened, startled, didn't know what was happening at

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Speaker 1: the front door. He claims, shot once through the door,

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Speaker 1: killing this thirty two year old woman who was there

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Speaker 1: with her husband to clean the house. It turns up

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Speaker 1: robes she had arrived at the wrong address. Those are

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Speaker 1: the facts of the case, and this is where after that,

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Speaker 1: everybody has their own interpretation of what did happen, might

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Speaker 1: have happened, should have happened.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so the man who owned the home, sixty two

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Speaker 3: year old Kurt Anderson. By the way, he's now facing

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Speaker 3: ten to thirty years behind bars, ten thousand dollars fine

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Speaker 3: if convicted. But yeah, he says that he was awakened

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Speaker 3: and neither both of these accounts agree that the house

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Speaker 3: cleaner and her husband were there on the porch for

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Speaker 3: around a minute. So he says he heard loud clanking

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Speaker 3: sound and that would presumably be the house cleaner going

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Speaker 3: through the keys, the set of keys that her cleaning

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Speaker 3: company gave her to open the door. She thought she

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Speaker 3: and her husband believed they were walking into a model home.

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Speaker 3: They didn't think anybody was inside, They didn't think anyone

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Speaker 3: lived there. They thought this was just an empty home

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Speaker 3: they were cleaning to be shown shortly, so they didn't

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Speaker 3: ring the doorbell, they didn't knock on the door. She

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Speaker 3: immediately was looking for the right key, and of course

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Speaker 3: she puts the key in. It's the wrong house, so

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Speaker 3: it doesn't work. So I'm sure it made some clanking noise.

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Speaker 3: But in that short period of time, he went, according

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Speaker 3: to him, to go get his gun.

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Speaker 2: He loaded.

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Speaker 3: He said he bought it specifically to defend his property,

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Speaker 3: and without saying anything, shouting anything, calling anyone, he fired

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Speaker 3: through that front door. He and his wife never opened

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Speaker 3: the front door, according to them, and she just called

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Speaker 3: nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Police found the woman on the front porch. He never

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Speaker 1: even went outside to see what was going on. A

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Speaker 1: check fired through the door. So here in lies the

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Speaker 1: problem with this case. Robes it did he would you

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the No, it's not the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night, it's almost seven in the morning. But

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Speaker 1: let's say you don't wake up till nine whatever. You're asleep,

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Speaker 1: you hear someone trying to get in through your front door.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a reasonable fear for your life? And

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Speaker 1: if you do, then a jury could possibly down the

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Speaker 1: road say, yeah, he was justified in firing that shot.

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Speaker 1: That is going to be the central point of this case. Now,

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Speaker 1: is that reasonable?

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Speaker 2: I don't think it is.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor doesn't either.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's reasonable at all. There are plenty

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Speaker 3: of other options you had. They hadn't come into the home. Now,

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Speaker 3: if they had opened the door, even if all the

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Speaker 3: same circumstances were the same, somehow they were able to

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Speaker 3: open the door and they walked in, that's scary as hell.

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Speaker 3: I could I could understand that from a legal standpoint,

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Speaker 3: but they never were.

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Speaker 2: In your home.

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Speaker 3: And just because someone is on your front porch, and

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Speaker 3: even if they're messing with the lock or seemingly trying

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Speaker 3: to get in, that doesn't give you the right to

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Speaker 3: use deadly force without even shouting out or asking a.

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Speaker 2: Question, who's there? What are you doing? You know, there

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Speaker 2: could have been some kind of communication before a shot

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Speaker 2: was fired.

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Speaker 1: Was the the it was daylight probably seven am in November, right, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: in Indiana, Indiana, YEP. I don't know that that's going

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Speaker 1: to be the center point, the centerpiece of his defense

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Speaker 1: is that if I am sleep and somebody, in my

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Speaker 1: estimation is trying to get into my home, why should

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Speaker 1: I not fear for my life? You talked about the

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Speaker 1: door opening even then, like he might have a better case,

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Speaker 1: But still, for most of us, what are you allowed

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Speaker 1: to do? What can you fear? We've seen police officers

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Speaker 1: use a justification I was scared for my life and

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Speaker 1: some of those we've seen some police officers walk right

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Speaker 1: out of court free men, Like what because they are

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Speaker 1: able to explain that I feared for my life? Is

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Speaker 1: he going to be able to explain that this was reasonable?

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Speaker 1: Is that enough? What should he have done? Does he

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Speaker 1: have to do anything? And we talked about this as well,

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Speaker 1: you and I bro there are exceptions made. You can't

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Speaker 1: just shoot the ups guy because you heard somebody on

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Speaker 1: your front porch, didn't look to see who it was,

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Speaker 1: and you just went pop pop pop. You can't do that.

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Speaker 3: You can't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, your porch is different from the inside of your house.

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Speaker 1: Now we have expanded these castle doctrine law stand your

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Speaker 1: ground laws. Castle doctrine is you come into my house,

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Speaker 1: I can shoot you. Stand your ground is different.

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Speaker 2: It can be anywhere.

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Speaker 3: You can be anywhere that you are reasonably or you

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Speaker 3: should be able to consider yourself reasonably safe to be.

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Speaker 3: And you don't have to retreat. You don't have to

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Speaker 3: run from whatever perceived danger you have. You have the

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Speaker 3: right to stand your ground wherever you are and protect

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Speaker 3: and defend yourself.

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Speaker 1: I think the key here is going to be the keys, right,

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Speaker 1: somebody's on your front porch, You don't shoot, you actually think,

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Speaker 1: and you hear someone messing with the lock, messing with

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Speaker 1: the door trying to get in, what is your reasonable fear? Then?

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Speaker 1: If you don't have family, friends, kids, nobody's come into

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Speaker 1: this house, you be trying to get into this door,

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Speaker 1: and if they are, they must mean me harm. Is

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Speaker 1: that reasonable?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so, because there are still a number

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Speaker 3: of other possible explanations this one. Yes, maybe he couldn't

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Speaker 3: have come up with it because he didn't asked for

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Speaker 3: a house cleaner to come to up.

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Speaker 2: He would never have thought that was the case.

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Speaker 3: However, you don't know what someone's intentions are. You don't

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Speaker 3: know why they're there, and if they're there to rob

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Speaker 3: you that he didn't know if they were armed, he

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Speaker 3: didn't know if they meant him harm. And I actually

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Speaker 3: appreciate the way the prosecutor put it. He said that

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Speaker 3: he didn't have enough information to know whether or not

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Speaker 3: the action he took was reasonable, so he acted without information.

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Speaker 3: He acted with emotion, not with information.

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Speaker 1: And here is where you would push back in court

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Speaker 1: on that. The law does not require me to have

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Speaker 1: all the information. It only says I can have a

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Speaker 1: reasonable fear for my life. This is my home, and

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Speaker 1: there is no chance robes at any of our homes

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Speaker 1: we've ever lived in that at if we're wakened in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night or while we're sleeping, and

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Speaker 1: you are not going to think, hmm, I wont of

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Speaker 1: this person's at the right house. You're not gonna think, hmm,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what mistake this is? Good bit could have

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Speaker 1: been made.

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Speaker 3: Let me go.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna think somebody's here to do me harm. And

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Speaker 1: so is that enough? I don't have that answer. Legally.

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Speaker 3: I think it's enough to react, to call out, to

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Speaker 3: say who's there, to grab your cell phone, to call

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Speaker 3: nine to one one. All of those things are more

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Speaker 3: reasonable than the choice he made to load a gun

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Speaker 3: and shoot without looking. There could have been a child

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Speaker 3: up there, There could have been anyone on that porch.

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Speaker 3: He did not know, and he fired without knowing, and

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Speaker 3: he knew he didn't know.

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Speaker 1: But is that what the law requires me to gather information?

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Speaker 1: Or does it only give me the right if somebody's

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Speaker 1: here uninvited for me to shoot that person and use

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Speaker 1: deadly forced That is when I am fascinated to hear,

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Speaker 1: because I'm putting we all have to put ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the position of this homeowner. Yeah, you'd be terrified.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yes, scared.

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Speaker 1: My first thought, I think is not to shoot, because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to kill somebody. I mean, that's just

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Speaker 1: your nature. You might go, you might yell, you might

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Speaker 1: throw something at the door, bang, do something, call nine

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Speaker 1: one one.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, I could understand pointing the gun at

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Speaker 3: the door, having your cell phone on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: yelling I have a gun, I am going to shoot,

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Speaker 3: and then calling nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Do I have it?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: So where's that's right? He saw through the window, he

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Speaker 1: saw who was out there.

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Speaker 3: He went and he looked around the window. He could

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Speaker 3: see from the top of his stairs through the window,

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Speaker 3: he could see that there were two people there. And

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Speaker 3: that's when he decided to shoot.

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Speaker 1: Okay, he saw two people, does that necessarily mean he

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Speaker 1: saw exactly who it was that they seemed to be

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Speaker 1: a threat at that time of morning. We just don't

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Speaker 1: know that part this is and you're seeing some legal

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Speaker 1: debates already start on this one. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be a very very difficult case Robes because I think now,

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Speaker 1: and I'm asking about it here, so I've said it

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Speaker 1: several times here. Just you as a homeowner putting yourself

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Speaker 1: in the position of you are to sleep at night

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Speaker 1: and you hear someone trying to open your door that

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Speaker 1: you know no one should be trying to open it.

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Speaker 1: That is fear. I am with you though that I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have such a fear of life that I might

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Speaker 1: just start shooting blindly. But does the law allow him

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Speaker 1: to do it?

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Speaker 3: So, according to an Indiana legal expert, acting out of

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Speaker 3: fear is not enough to invoke stand your ground. When

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Speaker 3: we come back, we're going to talk about what some

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Speaker 3: legal experts have said their interpretation of this law in

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Speaker 3: Indiana is. And certainly these laws vary state by state,

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Speaker 3: and we have some very recent and some very high

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Speaker 3: profile examples of cases similar to this and different juries,

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Speaker 3: different prosecutors made different choices in how to pursue charge

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Speaker 3: and continuing now on Amy and TJ presents this is

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Speaker 3: a legal issue that we have been talking about for

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Speaker 3: years and in this latest case out of Indiana certainly

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Speaker 3: ended in a tragic, tragic death of a mother of four,

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Speaker 3: a Guatemalan immigrant who literally died in the arms of

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Speaker 3: her husband trying to open a door with a key

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Speaker 3: to the wrong house, to the wrong door to go

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Speaker 3: to work. She was trying to clean a home along

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Speaker 3: with her husband. She was sent there as a part

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Speaker 3: of a cleaning crew and just before seven am died

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Speaker 3: with a single bullet to the head. The homeowner said

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Speaker 3: he feared for his life. Now, look, this is up

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Speaker 3: for debate. It's a gray area. This law in thirty

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Speaker 3: one states, including Indiana's standard round law, gets interpreted differently

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Speaker 3: by different folks, and it's caused a lot of confusion

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Speaker 3: and problems and certainly led to some very tragic, high

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Speaker 3: profile cases.

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Speaker 1: That has to be the trayvon Martin is the most

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Speaker 1: the biggest standout case, because I think that's when a

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Speaker 1: lot of people first heard about it and first understood wait,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, wait, wait, wait, what we couldn't believe

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Speaker 1: that that law defended a man who killed a teenager

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Speaker 1: seventeen year old kids skittles in his pocket. The law defended.

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Speaker 2: Him because he was afraid.

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Speaker 1: So when you talk to me about this story at Indiana,

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Speaker 1: after that experience, every standard ground case I hear, I think, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe they got a.

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Speaker 3: Shot exactly because of what happened in the Trayvon Martin

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Speaker 3: George Zimmerman case. That flew in the face of what

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Speaker 3: a lot of folks thought the standard ground law was.

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Speaker 3: Because yes, this Indiana legal expert said, acting out of

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Speaker 3: fear is not enough to stand to invoke the ed

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Speaker 3: your ground. That flies in the face of the verdict

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Speaker 3: of George Zimmermann.

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Speaker 1: Reasonable then they use that word allow. You had to

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Speaker 1: have a reasonable person would have a reasonable fear in

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Speaker 1: those moments. They say fear is not enough. But if

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Speaker 1: you have the reasonable expectation that you are going to

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Speaker 1: be harmed, you have the right to not retreat, even

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Speaker 1: if retreating is an option, is what the laws say.

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Speaker 1: Even if you have an exit, you have no obligation

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Speaker 1: to run. If you think that death or bodiling injury

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Speaker 1: is imminent to you or somebody around you, Imminent is

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Speaker 1: a big deal. I think in the issue in Indiana,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how he's going. I think in every

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Speaker 1: standard ground law, imminent is a key component. How could

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Speaker 1: he make an argument that fear of bodily injury or

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Speaker 1: death was imminent With somebody on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the damn.

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Speaker 3: Door, someone trying to insert a key, or someone who

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Speaker 3: is rattling your door or trying to get it, that's

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Speaker 3: still not an unlawful entry. Once they if they had

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Speaker 3: entered his home home, he would have had a much

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Speaker 3: stronger case.

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Speaker 2: But they didn't.

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Speaker 3: They were on the porch and they couldn't get in.

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Speaker 3: It's reasonable to be scared. It's reasonable to call police.

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Speaker 3: It's reasonable to shout out, who's there, I have a gun.

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Speaker 2: Leave my porch. Now. The point with the law is.

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Speaker 3: You are expected to at least acknowledge or say leave

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Speaker 3: my property. Anyone can come on to your porch. Just

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Speaker 3: because you have private property doesn't mean that people uninvited

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Speaker 3: people can't enter your property. I mean you mentioned it,

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Speaker 3: pizza delivery, amazones, whatever, your neighbor who needs to borrow

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Speaker 3: a couple of whatever. Anyone can go and walk onto

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Speaker 3: your private property up until your porch and feel reasonably

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Speaker 3: secure that they can do so, they legally have a

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Speaker 3: right to you. Then can say get off my property,

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Speaker 3: get off my porch, leave now.

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Speaker 2: That is your right.

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Speaker 3: And once you've done that and made that acknowledgment, then

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Speaker 3: perhaps other factors can come in. But he never ever

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Speaker 3: acknowledged or said anything. And the husband who was there

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Speaker 3: on the porch said they didn't hear a peep from

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Speaker 3: inside the house. They truly did not think anyone.

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Speaker 1: They fired it from upstairs, right, Yes, he didn't even

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Speaker 1: go downstairs.

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Speaker 3: Didn't see what was going on, and that is what's unreasonable.

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Speaker 3: He had other options to assess what was going on.

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Speaker 3: He chose not to use them and went straight to

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Speaker 3: deadly force.

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Speaker 1: I don't I mean, that's the argument about stands your ground.

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Speaker 1: Somebody could if somebody's running towards you with a fly

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Speaker 1: swatter set on a whoop, you ass you can't pull

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Speaker 1: out your gun and shoot him. That's not you're not

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Speaker 1: mean you can't do that. So this I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But again I'm I'm standing by and holding resident because

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Speaker 1: I every single one of these standard ground cases had

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Speaker 1: blown my mind before.

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Speaker 2: And they've gone in either direction.

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Speaker 1: Jordan Davis was in Florida, Florida, I believe as well.

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Speaker 1: He was playing loud music at a gas station and

305
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Speaker 1: guy said he was felt in fear and shot kid.

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Speaker 1: In that case went back and forth, a win and

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Speaker 1: a loss and a law. So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, who knows what the jury is going to side,

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Speaker 3: and that we know the prosecutor is pursuing charges. And

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Speaker 3: I mentioned we covered this case quite extensively and we

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Speaker 3: will follow it. The case out of Texas with the

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Speaker 3: ding Dong ditch, the eleven year old playing a game,

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Speaker 3: playing a childhood prank, ringing the doorbell and is he

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Speaker 3: using a standard ground, Yes, he is using standard ground.

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Speaker 1: He hid in the bushes. That was that case, right

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Speaker 1: on his property. Yeah, after he did it a couple times.

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Speaker 1: The kid did it a couple of times, and he okay,

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Speaker 1: he stalk the kid almost he was lying in wait

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Speaker 1: for that. That was a different type of thing. Who

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Speaker 1: knows THO.

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Speaker 3: To your point about Trayvon Martin and the case in

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Speaker 3: Florida with the loud music, just when you think, well,

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Speaker 3: obviously this person is going to be prosecuted and actually

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Speaker 3: punished for taking a life of someone who actually wasn't

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Speaker 3: posing a threat. You'd think that would be the case,

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Speaker 3: but you do not know in these situations because the

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Speaker 3: language there is a gray area. And that's why a

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Speaker 3: lot of folks are saying we should get rid of

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Speaker 3: these laws, because it emboldens folks in moments of fear

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Speaker 3: to do something that maybe they wouldn't otherwise do because

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Speaker 3: they feel as though they are protected by the law,

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Speaker 3: that they have every right to.

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Speaker 2: Shoot first and ask questions later. And that is not

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Speaker 2: the case.

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Speaker 1: We should have done this ahead of time. And I

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Speaker 1: would be so curious to look up because I don't

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Speaker 1: recall a single one. How many times does stand your

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Speaker 1: ground been used? Or you've heard about killings when a

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Speaker 1: criminal was there to rob the place. I don't hear

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Speaker 1: about homeowners shooting people who are there to actually rob them.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure it probably, I guess, but all the

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Speaker 1: standard ground, all the cases I hear about have to

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Speaker 1: do with someone who was not actually there to do

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Speaker 1: a person harm. I would be very curious to see if,

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Speaker 1: like what use how important this law has been in

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Speaker 1: helping what saved lives?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think I've heard a case here

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Speaker 3: or there, but it seems as though they pale in

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Speaker 3: comparison in terms of numbers. I mean, I've heard, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, a homeowner, a woman, someone's coming in, she's

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Speaker 3: got the gun. But again I don't even know the details.

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Speaker 3: I remember hearing one once like that's to your point,

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Speaker 3: it might just not cover, it might not rise to

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Speaker 3: the level of being covered because it was affected or effectual,

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Speaker 3: and it was the law was being put to use

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Speaker 3: in the correct way, and so it doesn't make headlines.

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Speaker 1: But to think, why is why this is necessary to

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Speaker 1: protect you from making a mistake? It seemed like what

359
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 1: it is so often, but it also seems like it

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Speaker 1: gives you more permission to make that mistake.

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Speaker 3: What I And that's the point that people are making

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Speaker 3: that basically because folks know homeowners know or even just

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Speaker 3: people in general who pack heet who have concealed weapons

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Speaker 3: know that. Or they believe that it's their right to

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Speaker 3: defend themselves, their property, their person, their family, no matter what,

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Speaker 3: and that can be their first instinct is to shoot

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Speaker 3: first and to ask questions later. And that's the scary part.

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Speaker 3: And when you have a case like this, which is

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Speaker 3: so tragic and so sad I did read the part

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Speaker 3: where they didn't go outside. They called nine one one.

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Speaker 3: This is the husband and the wife who were inside

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Speaker 3: the home. But they heard her husband wailing. There was

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Speaker 3: a real tragic loss of life here from our woman

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Speaker 3: who was just trying to do her job. It is

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Speaker 3: incredibly sad.

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Speaker 1: We want to leave room robes for not knowing all

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Speaker 1: the facts of what was going on in that house.

378
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Speaker 1: Maybe there were other factors in this, you know what

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Speaker 1: a court would consider a jurm. I consider what if

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Speaker 1: their house was broken into two weeks ago? What if

381
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Speaker 1: other things and other factors. You want to leave room.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to. Yes, he took a life, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think he wanted to. Right This could have

384
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Speaker 1: been just an awful mistake, a bad mistake, a bad judgment,

385
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Speaker 1: and a good guy had a really bad night. We

386
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Speaker 1: don't know. We always want to leave room for that,

387
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Speaker 1: but this one, obviously, Robes shouldn't have happened.

388
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Speaker 2: It shouldn't have.

389
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Speaker 3: And his wife, according to police reports, did say that

390
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Speaker 3: her husband and she was always concerned, would tell neighbors.

391
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Speaker 3: He went out to purchase this gun specifically to protect

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Speaker 3: his home, and he said if anyone were to ever

393
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Speaker 3: try to come into my home, I would shoot them immediately,

394
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Speaker 3: so he had it in his head that this is

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Speaker 3: what he was supposed to do, or that this is

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Speaker 3: what he was going to do. And then lo and behold,

397
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Speaker 3: this situation happened, and he made good on what he

398
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Speaker 3: said he would do.

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Speaker 1: And this is where I try to leave room as

400
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Speaker 1: a homeowner in Georgia where these laws were in place.

401
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: Who was at home by myself in the middle of

402
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Speaker 1: the day when three guys tried to break into my

403
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Speaker 1: home in a coordinated effort, to which I went and

404
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 1: immediately bought guns for that house the next day, And

405
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Speaker 1: who lived most of my time in the Atlanta Era

406
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Speaker 1: area with guns in my house After that experience, the

407
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Speaker 1: next time someone attempted to do anything like that to

408
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Speaker 1: my home, I think my first instinct would be to

409
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Speaker 1: pick up my gun. Now, I don't know what my

410
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 1: reaction would have been, but I assure you I checked

411
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Speaker 1: up on the law after I got those guns, and

412
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Speaker 1: I knew what I was allowed to do. That sounds great.

413
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: Sabine was months old at that point. She was supposed

414
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Speaker 1: to be at home with me that day, and I

415
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: just happened to be home alone. So all those things.

416
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Speaker 1: If I am a juror listening to at you just

417
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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not saying what he did was right

418
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Speaker 1: and justifying it anyway, But as I and I know

419
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Speaker 1: a lot of people are getting onto and I put

420
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Speaker 1: myself in that position of that fear, having gone through it,

421
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,479
Speaker 1: having had weapons, and having to have the experience of

422
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Speaker 1: hearing something in the middle of the night in my

423
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Speaker 1: home in Atlanta and knowing exactly where that gun was

424
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Speaker 1: and that clip was and loaded it that night.

425
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Speaker 2: I have never heard this story before. Vave.

426
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Speaker 3: I knew you.

427
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: I knew you were a gun owner, but I did

428
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: not know that story.

429
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,239
Speaker 1: That's why I was a gun owner is because of

430
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: that incident at that house. So these things are real,

431
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: and that fear is real. Yes, yes, yes, yes, And

432
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Speaker 1: I hate what happened and can't imagine shooting through the

433
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: door blindly. I can't imagine that. But we will see

434
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Speaker 1: if we get to a trial, and I wouldn't be surprised.

435
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: There are things we are going to learn that will

436
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: make this story probably sound.

437
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: Different, maybe make a little bit more sense, but it

438
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: still is a tragedy in and of itself. We will,

439
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: of course follow this case and there is a lot

440
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 3: more to come. He's behind bars right now, awaiting a

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Speaker 3: hearing at this point, but again facing a voluntary manslaughter charge.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to us everyone. I'm

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Speaker 3: Amy Robach alongside t. J.

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Speaker 2: Holmes. We always appreciate you