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Speaker 1: Welcome to Crash Course, a podcast about business, political, and

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Speaker 1: social disruption and what we can learn from it. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien. Today's Crash Course party politics versus the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four presidential race. Have voters, Politico's analysts, and the

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Speaker 1: media focused before with such intensity on a presidential race

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Speaker 1: in the US more than a year before the actual vote. Perhaps,

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Speaker 1: but I'm willing to say probably not. The reason why

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Speaker 1: this race is so magnetic are overt Trump and trump

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Speaker 1: Ism are in the air. Democracies on the table. Pivotal

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Speaker 1: policy issues are in play, reproductive rights, immigration, jobs in

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Speaker 1: the economy, healthcare, public health and public safety, education, national security,

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Speaker 1: the rule of law, and the funding and future shape

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Speaker 1: of the federal government. Social media choose on all of this.

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Speaker 1: Twenty four to seven information and disinformation is ubiquitous, Ship

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Speaker 1: is at a boiling point, and Democrats and Republicans are

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Speaker 1: maneuvering for position. It all matters. So spend some time

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Speaker 1: with me today and my guest, Peggy Collins, as we

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Speaker 1: tee up all of this fear consideration. Peggy is the

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Speaker 1: Washington Bureau chief of Bloomberg News and a veteran national

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Speaker 1: and local news reporter. She is a gifted editor and thinker,

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Speaker 1: and in a very shambolic world, she is a great

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Speaker 1: source of clarity. Welcome to crash course, Peggy.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Tim, So.

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Speaker 1: To sort of get our arms around this, I thought

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Speaker 1: we'd break up our discussion today into three big chunks,

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Speaker 1: looking at where the Democrats are situated, then looking at

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Speaker 1: where the Republicans are situated, and then trying to do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of tea leaf reading for what that

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Speaker 1: means in twenty twenty four is the race comes closer

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Speaker 1: and closer to the finish line. And then how you,

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Speaker 1: as a manager of a massive reporting process sort of

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Speaker 1: deploy your troops around all of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're trying to get our heads around that too,

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Speaker 2: so it'll be helpful for me to think it through

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: I'll probably circle back to you at midpoint sometime next

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Speaker 1: here so we can revisit all of this.

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Speaker 2: That sounds great, So let's talk first.

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Speaker 1: About the Democrats and Joe Biden and his stature as

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Speaker 1: a leader. Obviously, like you know, the opinion polls have

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Speaker 1: shown him as very weak, as not someone who'd be

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Speaker 1: coming into the selection with the kind of polling numbers

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Speaker 1: that you would describe as wind at the back. It's

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Speaker 1: more like, you know, ball and chain around the ankle.

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Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that and how where you

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Speaker 1: see him right now as a leader of his party.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question, Tim, because I think if

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Speaker 2: you ask a lot of people in the American public,

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Speaker 2: what our reporting shows is that his age is one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest liabilities. There's no doubt about that. It

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Speaker 2: comes up a lot. But if you talk to people

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Speaker 2: inside of Washington who are in his inner circle or

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Speaker 2: supportive of him, what we hear mostly is that they

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Speaker 2: point to the fact that he has actually passed or

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Speaker 2: been able to pass some really big legislation in his

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Speaker 2: first term as president. We look at the infrastructure bill.

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Speaker 2: There's been so many administrations over the decades that haven't

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Speaker 2: actually been able to get a bipartisan infrastructure bill done

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Speaker 2: for the country, and he has. They'll point to two

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Speaker 2: other things. They'll also point to the IRA Bill that

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Speaker 2: he passed over last summer, where it's one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest investments in clean technology electric vehicles that we've seen,

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Speaker 2: and that's really a tribute to the climate change efforts

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Speaker 2: that he has made, which a lot of young voters

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Speaker 2: consider one of their most important things that they're thinking

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Speaker 2: of about the future of the country. And the third

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Speaker 2: is the Chips Act in terms of countering China and

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Speaker 2: national security and trying to bring more factories back to

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Speaker 2: the US or near shoring with other countries. So if

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Speaker 2: you think of those two to three legislative achievements, the

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Speaker 2: Infrastructure Bill, IRA and the Chips Bill, Biden supporters will

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Speaker 2: say he's actually gotten a lot done, but the public

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Speaker 2: is looking more at okay, But we don't really feel

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Speaker 2: that necessarily yet in our towns and our communities. And again,

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Speaker 2: age is something that comes up a lot in our

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Speaker 2: reporting when it comes to President Biden, so.

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Speaker 1: You know, we can't bundle that a little bit. He

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Speaker 1: himself is surrounded by seniors on the hill of both

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Speaker 1: parties hill. Most likely it polls her to be believed

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Speaker 1: be campaigning against another senior, Donald Trump. So it's not

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Speaker 1: exactly like he's an old man surrounded by spring chickens.

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Speaker 1: But he also presents as having some acuity problems. He

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Speaker 1: can be mush mouthed when he speaks, he can wander

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Speaker 1: in his thinking. Although he's wandered in his thinking for

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Speaker 1: decades before he became an older American president. In addition

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Speaker 1: to that, you know, it's sort of mysterious and interesting

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Speaker 1: to me, this I guess messaging problem the Dems have

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Speaker 1: because you know, you mentioned the IRA as a signature

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Speaker 1: legislative achievement. It's unfortunately named the Inflation Reduction Act, which

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Speaker 1: they sort of set themselves up for criticism with that,

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Speaker 1: given that inflation later like shot through the roof. But

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Speaker 1: putting inflation aside, it's cooled off since last year. The

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Speaker 1: metrics in the economy are good. The US economy is

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Speaker 1: robust compared to other Western industrialized economies. GDP is projected

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Speaker 1: derived more than two percent this year. Job and wage

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Speaker 1: growth have been strong, even with the inflation battle. Inflation

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Speaker 1: is around three point seven percent. That's slightly above its

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Speaker 1: historical average, but it's way below the eight percent plus

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Speaker 1: that freaked everyone out last year. The FAT has jacked

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Speaker 1: up interest rates to deal with all of this. But

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Speaker 1: you know, wage growth, job growth is high, but people

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Speaker 1: feel wary, and the Democrats are not getting credit for

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Speaker 1: an economy and all by most measures is doing very well.

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Speaker 1: What do you attribute that to? Is that sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, human psychology, is it average folks still are

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Speaker 1: seeing bread prices and gas prices and their basics going

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Speaker 1: up in the food line helped me get unconfused on this.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you're right, Tim, I mean, the US

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Speaker 2: economy has a lot of good things going for and

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Speaker 2: I was just talking to someone this week who actually

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Speaker 2: said it's been a bright spot not only for many

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Speaker 2: people in America, but for the world, you know, in

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Speaker 2: terms of economies around the world. But when you think

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Speaker 2: about what Americans are doing every day, driving cars, buying food,

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Speaker 2: paying electricity bills, those have gone up for people and

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Speaker 2: they feel it. So when it comes to those daily

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Speaker 2: things that you're paying for or weekly or monthly bills,

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Speaker 2: it feels like they've gone up and they've stayed there.

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Speaker 2: So when economists are talking about inflation or the FED,

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Speaker 2: or when we're covering it here at Bloomberg on a

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Speaker 2: monthly basis and we see the numbers going down, that

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Speaker 2: doesn't actually mean that people are seeing egg prices go

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Speaker 2: down in the grocery stores. It means that the rate

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Speaker 2: that the prices are going up are not going up

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Speaker 2: as fast. That's the disconnect, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And is there a way out here from a messaging standpoint,

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Speaker 1: how does a party presiding of either side of the

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Speaker 1: aisle over a robust economy but not getting real credit

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Speaker 1: for it. Is there a way to maneuver politically or

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Speaker 1: to message around that. Is it just a matter of

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Speaker 1: really just banging the and hoping for the best.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it is difficult, right. So what the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration has really tried to do is lean in

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Speaker 2: on what they call Bidenomics. So they say, other people

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Speaker 2: call it Bidenomics, but they've really tried to lean into

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Speaker 2: Bidenomics and say this is our economic policy, and our

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Speaker 2: economic policy has really helped not only keep your jobs

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Speaker 2: and the job numbers up, but also is preparing us

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Speaker 2: for a future where we may have jobs that are

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Speaker 2: in future spaces like clean energy and tech and union

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Speaker 2: jobs that will set you up better for the future.

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Speaker 2: Because I do think there's this other theme in America

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Speaker 2: that we've been reporting on a lot at Bloomberg, which

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Speaker 2: is when you're in the middle class. It's something that's

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Speaker 2: very quintessential to being American, but a lot of people

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Speaker 2: in the middle class feel like it's getting harder and

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Speaker 2: harder to stay in the middle class or.

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Speaker 1: Move up because it is it is the middle class

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Speaker 1: in years, has been fraying since the nineteen eighties. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the central dynamics of our politics, I think,

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Speaker 1: is how both parties respond to that, in good faith

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Speaker 1: and in bad faith.

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Speaker 2: And another key factor there tim which you've probably heard

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Speaker 2: of a lot from the people you talk to, is

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Speaker 2: housing affordability, because we cover it at Bloomberg in a

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Speaker 2: couple of different ways. We cover it in terms of

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Speaker 2: thinking about how many people have the ability to move

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Speaker 2: from a renter to a home, but also how much

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Speaker 2: private equity and other businesses have gone into the real

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Speaker 2: estate market and changed the structure of in America, particularly

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Speaker 2: since the financial crisis in two thousand and eight two

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Speaker 2: thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: When one of those underpinnings of the American dream, the

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Speaker 1: idea that you could own your own home, came under

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Speaker 1: assault then and it's only gotten.

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Speaker 2: Harder, right exactly. And you know, this whole idea of

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Speaker 2: the renters and homeowners is something that we really do

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Speaker 2: see changing in America. I mean, rent costs went up

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Speaker 2: a lot in the last few years when we've been

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Speaker 2: talking about inflation. That's one of the big drivers of

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Speaker 2: those inflation numbers being so high, and that is something

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Speaker 2: that structurally has changed in America and is something that

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Speaker 2: policymakers are dealing with and that no matter who wins

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Speaker 2: the pre residential race in November twenty twenty four, will

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Speaker 2: have to deal with.

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Speaker 1: So as the Democrats try to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: wrestle their way out of the economics messaging conundrum, they

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Speaker 1: do have some other issues that suggest from voting patterns

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Speaker 1: that they do have some wind at their back. One

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Speaker 1: of the big ones, and it'll be an interesting one,

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Speaker 1: I think, are reproductive rights. The Supreme Court in the

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Speaker 1: Dobbs decision overturned Roe v.

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Speaker 2: Wade.

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Speaker 1: That certainly was a factor I think in the midterm

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Speaker 1: elections in twenty twenty two. It's undoubtedly going to be

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Speaker 1: an electoral issue in twenty twenty four. And some interesting

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Speaker 1: things have been happening in states where you would think

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Speaker 1: red states have actually come out to protect women's rights

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Speaker 1: to access reproductive healthcare and abortions as needed. Kansas famously.

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Speaker 1: How do you see that playing out as an issue

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Speaker 1: for the Democrats in twenty twenty four, Well.

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Speaker 2: I definitely think it's going to be one of the

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Speaker 2: issues that they are going to lean into and we're

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Speaker 2: doing a lot of reporting a bloomberg right now not

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Speaker 2: only on people's feelings about the economy and inflation, but

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Speaker 2: does that matter more than something like the decision on

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Speaker 2: Row And as you were saying, Tim, there are a

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Speaker 2: number of cultural societal issues, civil rights issues that people

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Speaker 2: are looking at in this race, and that at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day may matter even more than the economy.

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Speaker 2: That remains to be seen, but it is going to

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Speaker 2: be something that we're going to be tracking because there

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Speaker 2: have been so many huge decisions made at the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court level, not only Roe, but affirmative Action and then

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Speaker 2: the student loan decision, So there are some signature things

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Speaker 2: that have changed in the country since twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: And on the Dobbs decision and reproductive rights, it obviously

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Speaker 1: resonates very powerfully for female voters, and they are an

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Speaker 1: all important voting block in swing states and in the

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Speaker 1: suburbs of big cities in swing states. So that's going

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Speaker 1: to be a very interesting phenomenon to watch play out

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Speaker 1: how that decision lights up the electorate in those important

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Speaker 1: swing states.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and it is also an issue that Republicans

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Speaker 2: and the Republican can dates are having to decide in

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Speaker 2: their own states and also in the presidential election where

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Speaker 2: they stand on it, because there's differences between the different

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Speaker 2: Republican candidates in terms of where they fall not only

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Speaker 2: on row but on reproductive rights. So I think that's

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Speaker 2: another place where we're going to be watching how that

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Speaker 2: resonates for voters in different states around America.

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Speaker 1: I often think of foreign policy as a weak tea

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Speaker 1: when it comes to winning the allegiance of voters. You know,

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Speaker 1: we elites, or we academics, or we observers, we journalists

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Speaker 1: pay attention to foreign affairs in a way that the

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Speaker 1: average voter doesn't. But I do think the Biden administration

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Speaker 1: has conducted a fairly exemplary policy in bobbing and weaving

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Speaker 1: out of how to support Ukraine in the wake of

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Speaker 1: the Russian invasion and building coalitions in Europe, realigning Visa

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Speaker 1: v China in East Asia. I don't know that that'll

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Speaker 1: have any meaning politically, but I do think it does

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Speaker 1: adhere to the idea of adult governance in a complim world.

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Speaker 2: I certainly think you're right on that, and I think

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Speaker 2: China is a big issue in this presidential race. There

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Speaker 2: may not be as many voters who really glom onto

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Speaker 2: the specifics of foreign policy and foreign policy stances like

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Speaker 2: you were saying, But I do think China is a

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Speaker 2: big issue for a lot of American voters in terms

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Speaker 2: of how do we stay competitive so that we're able

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Speaker 2: to keep our jobs or keep our communities growing and robust.

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Speaker 2: So that is something that the Biden administration is really

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Speaker 2: trying to make a signature part of their campaign, pointing

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Speaker 2: to things like the Chips Act and ways that they're

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Speaker 2: trying to bring factories back to America into towns. It

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Speaker 2: will be interesting to see, though, if people actually see

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Speaker 2: the impact of that by the time we get to

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Speaker 2: November twenty twenty four, right. I mean, it's not easy

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Speaker 2: to build the factory in six months, So that's one

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Speaker 2: of the issues. And then the other that you mentioned

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Speaker 2: on the Ukraine Russia War. It certainly changed so much

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Speaker 2: over the past couple of years, and we are seeing

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Speaker 2: them Washington some support starting to wane for spending the

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Speaker 2: type of money and providing the type of aid to

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Speaker 2: Ukraine that we did in the past. So that is

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Speaker 2: going to be something that we're going to have to

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Speaker 2: watch really closely.

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Speaker 1: You know, I mentioned in referencing how the Biden foreign

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Speaker 1: policy has been conducted as being adult or mature. Where

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Speaker 1: does this idea of sort of adult management of the

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Speaker 1: federal government reside with voters? You know, coming out of

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Speaker 1: the confusion and chaos and attempts to sort of torch

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Speaker 1: the constitution during the Trump era. Biden is old, but

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Speaker 1: he surrounded himself with a competent team. They've tried to

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Speaker 1: execute in a rational way against clearheaded policies. Does that

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Speaker 1: matter to voters or does emotion always win the day?

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Speaker 1: Is the cult around the far right of trump Ism

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Speaker 1: and then just standard Republican political allegiances, Does that sort

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Speaker 1: of emotional affiliation win the day over demonstrable proofs of

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Speaker 1: just you have your hands on the steering wheel and

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Speaker 1: the car is staying in its lane.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think for a lot of voters, the car

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Speaker 2: staying in its lane is very important. That feeling of

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Speaker 2: stability was something that we saw in the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: election be very important in terms that people wanted a

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Speaker 2: bit more common stability in the country. I will say though,

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Speaker 2: that there are a lot of people and the candidates

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Speaker 2: on the Republican side are talking about this a lot

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Speaker 2: who are thinking about how much we're spending as a

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Speaker 2: government and whether or not that is the amount that

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Speaker 2: we should be. So I think the Republicans are touching

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Speaker 2: on a nerve there when you talk about government spending

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Speaker 2: versus what the states are spending, and I think on

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Speaker 2: either side of the aisle, people are very frustrated by

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Speaker 2: the lack of or the perception of the lack of

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Speaker 2: things getting done at all in Washington, let alone efficiently.

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Speaker 1: And well, yeah, we'll come back to that a little

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Speaker 1: bit later when we talk about the threat of apostible

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Speaker 1: government shutdown. But while we're focused right now on the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: I think some of the issues that weigh against them.

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Speaker 1: The one of the ones that just seems stark ast

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Speaker 1: to me as immigration. The Trump administration came under a

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Speaker 1: lot of fire for how it conducted both governance of

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Speaker 1: the border and the management of migrants and families and children. Famously,

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Speaker 1: Trump tried to build a wall. Famously, I feel like

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration hasn't really tackled that problem, and we're

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Speaker 1: seeing some of the ramifications of that with migrants coming

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Speaker 1: into cities and federal work rules don't make it easy

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Speaker 1: for migrants to get a job so they can pay

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Speaker 1: for their own food in housing, so the taxpayer ends

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Speaker 1: up having to pick up the tab for housing and food.

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Speaker 1: That's become a flashpoint in a lot of places. There's

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Speaker 1: been cynicism around how some of the migrants got to

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Speaker 1: the cities. Obviously then bus there courtesy of Greg Abbott

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Speaker 1: and his constituents in Texas. But be that as it may,

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot of clarity of vision or of

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Speaker 1: political and policy purpose from the Dems around how to

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Speaker 1: deal with immigration in a holistic way.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right. I think you've seen that going

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Speaker 2: back many administrations. Though I will say that on both

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Speaker 2: the Democrat and Republican side that this has been an

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Speaker 2: that the country has grappled with and not been able

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Speaker 2: to find a comprehensive solution for. And we're seeing cities

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Speaker 2: really start to break under the strain of it. I

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Speaker 2: mean it's New York, Chicago, Boston, as well as cities

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Speaker 2: on the border and in Florida and in California. So

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Speaker 2: it is becoming a national issue that people are seeing

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Speaker 2: on television, they're seeing when they walk around their cities

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Speaker 2: and towns, and it is such a human issue too.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I do think we have to remember that.

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Speaker 2: What I think is one of the things that the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration has really struggled on is the fact that

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Speaker 2: they did try about a year ago to talk a

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Speaker 2: lot about their Latin American policy and how they could

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Speaker 2: try to address the root of the problem in terms

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Speaker 2: of unrest in some of the countries there.

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Speaker 1: That is forcing migrants north exactly, local corruption, poverty, all

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Speaker 1: the things that are making families for good reason try

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Speaker 1: to come north to the US to a safe Harvard exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that's real, but that also is a big problem

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Speaker 2: in terms of, well, how do you solve that? And

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Speaker 2: they have been trying to to encourage more private investment

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Speaker 2: and deal with some of the countries in Latin America,

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Speaker 2: but that's been very difficult and we haven't seen a

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Speaker 2: lot of signs of improvement there, so I think their

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Speaker 2: ability to message how much improvement they're making on that

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Speaker 2: front is limited. And then I think the other issue

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Speaker 2: is that Biden really does need Congress to help to

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Speaker 2: pass some legislation that would make some big changes around immigration,

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Speaker 2: and they're pretty realistic from our reporting that there's not

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Speaker 2: a lot of hope there that that's going to get

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Speaker 2: done before the November twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 1: You know, cities that are struggling to house and support

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Speaker 1: migrants have also struggled in the COVID era around public safety,

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Speaker 1: and that's been a big flashpoint as well. Some of

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Speaker 1: the crime statistics have been sensationalized. Actually, the homicide rate

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Speaker 1: has come down sharply in recent months and even over

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Speaker 1: the last year, but I still think there's a public

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Speaker 1: perception that street crime is rampant in many of our

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Speaker 1: big cities, and in some places shoplifting and looting of

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Speaker 1: stores has been ran and that tends to be a

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Speaker 1: local issue. Most presidents are hostage to governors and mayors

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Speaker 1: around that issue, but it is probably something I think

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Speaker 1: Republicans are going to continue to try to hang around

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Speaker 1: Biden's neck. How do you think of that playing out

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four as an issue.

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Speaker 2: I think it will be a big issue, and I

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Speaker 2: think to your point, Tim, it will be one that

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Speaker 2: they do try to put at the feet of Biden.

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Speaker 2: I think the issue of crime will be a big

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Speaker 2: one because again, it relates to people in their towns

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Speaker 2: and cities all across America, and I do want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we do separate the immigration issue and

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Speaker 2: migrant issue from crime, although oftentimes it is conflated. But

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Speaker 2: as you said, the number of times we hear or

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Speaker 2: see on TV instances of shop limiting and stores, or

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Speaker 2: just a number of cars that are being stolen, and

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Speaker 2: we have Bloomberg have reported about the uptick in cars

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Speaker 2: being stolen. That's again it goes back to things like inflation.

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Speaker 2: When people can see it in their own towns or

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Speaker 2: hear their own friends talk about, Oh, someone broken to

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Speaker 2: my car and stole my car, my car, keys or whatnot,

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Speaker 2: that's very relatable and much easier to shift the thinking

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Speaker 2: of people on well, who's going to lead us out

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Speaker 2: of this situation. I do also think again, the pandemic

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Speaker 2: has changed a lot of people's lives in America, and

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Speaker 2: we are still trying to recover from them, work.

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Speaker 1: Through all of the kind of existential and unusual challenges

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Speaker 1: that presented that may well have been temporary exactly.

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Speaker 2: And the number of people who got thrown out of

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Speaker 2: the job market in March April May of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: and who are still rebuilding their lives. I mean there's

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Speaker 2: still a lot of people who never went back into

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Speaker 2: the job market after the pandemic, and there are others

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Speaker 2: that started a whole new kind of career or business

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Speaker 2: or whatnot. But there's so much fluidity still in our economy,

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Speaker 2: so many people who moved around, and I think we're

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Speaker 2: still settling from all of it.

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Speaker 1: One of the last policy issues I wanted to focus

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Speaker 1: on before we take a break is healthcare. I don't

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Speaker 1: know entirely how to think about where the Biden administration

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Speaker 1: is with this, other than healthcare is still a massively

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Speaker 1: unaffordable thing for too many Americans. Insurance is prohibitively expensive.

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Speaker 1: I think there is an economic consequence of workers who

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Speaker 1: just don't get proper healthcare, families who can't deliver health

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Speaker 1: care to their children so their children can grow up

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Speaker 1: and be educated, productive members of society. It feels to

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Speaker 1: me like it should be a tent pole policy issue

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Speaker 1: that we figured out. There's some measures around there the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration has taken to deal with that, most recently

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Speaker 1: empowering medicare to negotiate with big pharma companies around drug prices.

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Speaker 1: And yet the roles of the uninsured are growing again.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of people being dropped off of state

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Speaker 1: insurance roles in large numbers four million recently, it may

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Speaker 1: grow to as much as ten million next year. Where

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Speaker 1: will healthcare reside for voters when they think about whether

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Speaker 1: or not the Biden administration has helped them solve some

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Speaker 1: of the most basic problems.

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Speaker 2: Well, Tim, you just talked about the Medicare and drug pricing.

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Speaker 2: That is another one of the signature achievements that the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration will point to, and they're hoping that another

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Speaker 2: big voting block and important voting block that being seniors,

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Speaker 2: is going to feel that and credit them for it.

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Speaker 2: The issue, though, again, is it's not necessarily something so tangible.

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Speaker 2: Same is what we're talking about with infrastructure, where you

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Speaker 2: can see a building in your town and credit it

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Speaker 2: to Biden. The likelihood that that's going to happen between

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Speaker 2: now and November twenty twenty four, even though they pass

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Speaker 2: the infrastructure bill, is low, and the number of people

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Speaker 2: who may see their drug prices go down and instantly

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Speaker 2: credit Biden with it, I think is also kind of

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Speaker 2: going to be a challenge for the Biden camp to

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Speaker 2: keep reminding people of that if nothing else but healthcare

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Speaker 2: is one of the issues in this country that on

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Speaker 2: both sides of the aisle people do think needs improvement.

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Speaker 2: Let alone is broken, maybe depending on who you talk too.

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Speaker 2: So I do think it's going to be an issue,

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Speaker 2: but it's going to be one of those bubbling issues

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Speaker 2: as opposed to boiling.

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Speaker 1: On that note, we're going to take a quick break

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Speaker 1: to hear from one of our sponsors and then we'll

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Speaker 1: come right back. We're back with Peggy Collins, Washington bureau

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Speaker 1: chief for Bloomberg News, and we're focusing on the battle

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Speaker 1: for the White House in twenty twenty four, and we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about the Democrats, so let's turn to the GOP.

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Speaker 1: We began talking to the Democrats about its leadership, centering

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Speaker 1: that discussion initially around Joe Biden. Thinking about where the

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Speaker 1: leadership is right now for the GOP, to me, is

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Speaker 1: a more complex project. You have Mitch McConnell, you have

439
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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, you obviously have Donald Trump, and you have

440
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: a fractious and fractured party. When you think about leadership

441
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: of the GOP going into twenty twenty four, what resonates with.

442
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: You, Well, certainly a lot of our reporting is showing

443
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: that the party still see for President Trump as one

444
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 2: of its key leaders, in the sense that he's directing

445
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 2: the way some of the party is not only going,

446
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: but what they're doing on certain policy issues. But Kevin

447
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: McCarthy has really could.

448
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: I stop you for one second, because I'm curious about this.

449
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: When we say that the party sees Trump as its leader,

450
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: we know that in primaries it's the most passionate voters

451
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: in both parties who come out and vote in primaries.

452
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: That also tends to be the same population of people

453
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: who respond to poles. And I wonder to the extent

454
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: when we see these polling numbers for Trump where he's

455
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: double digits ahead of everyone else, well ahead of Ronda Santis,

456
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: who's now fallen behind the vek Ramaswami and Nikki Haley

457
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: and Chris Christy. Are those polls really reflective of the

458
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: party or are they reflective of the most passionate members

459
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: of the party who have an affinity for Donald Trump.

460
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: Well, I think we've seen time and time again that

461
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: polls haven't been right, so I think it's right to

462
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: have a question mark over them. I do think you're right, Tim,

463
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 2: in the sense that a lot of what we're hearing

464
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: right now, and where people are taking the temperature is

465
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: around the most passionate early primary voters, who you would

466
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 2: think are likely to go for Trump. However, I will say,

467
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: because of his messaging and because of his power potentially

468
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: with those primary voters, Trump is still having a lot

469
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: of sway in terms of where Republicans dodge or weave

470
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: or go.

471
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: I cut you off to focus on that when you

472
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: were about to say something that I'm sure was interesting

473
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: about Kevin McCarthy. So let's go back to that.

474
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say that Kevin McCarthy has

475
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: had a number of moments this year where people might

476
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: have expected he couldn't get something done, and he did actually,

477
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: and it's because his party is so fractured right now.

478
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: He is really trying to corral some very passionate groups

479
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 2: of people within his party that are on pretty different

480
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 2: sides of issues in many cases. But we did see

481
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: him pull it out in the debt ceiling debate. I mean,

482
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,120
Speaker 2: they took us up right to the last minute, working

483
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: through Memorial Day weekend, but he was able to bring

484
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 2: them together and get a consensus. We're starting to see

485
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: some of that build somewhat right now as we head

486
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: into the government shutdown, But he's got a very thin

487
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 2: line to walk because they are able to oust him

488
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 2: as a speaker much more easily now than for speakers

489
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: in the past.

490
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: And if he wants to get legislation passed on a

491
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: Republican line vote, he can only afford to lose. For Republicans, right.

492
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 2: It's razor thin. And if you flip that for the

493
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: Democrats in Biden, it's the same for them. And right

494
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: now it's so difficult to get anything passed in Washington

495
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: because you're really counting on a handful of people to

496
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 2: come with you or not.

497
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: And you know, as we speak right now, they are

498
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: in the midst of looking at getting appropriations bills through

499
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: and getting a deal done to keep the government open.

500
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: And McCarthy I think had a choice between either tilting

501
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: towards moderate Democrats who wanted to work with him and

502
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: negotiate on a compromise bill, or going to his right

503
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: the Maga folks who sort of held him hostage for

504
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: his speakership and gave him a bill of particular surrounding

505
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: how he had to conduct himself as speaker. That left

506
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: him I think a little hamstrung, and he's made a

507
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: choice at least right now as we speak, that he's

508
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: going to tilt right and try to get this done. There.

509
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: I sort of wonder if he can't, if he's fatally wounded,

510
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: and if his constituency on the right, in the Republican

511
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: Party in the House feels like he hasn't met their expectations,

512
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: that they'll just happily pull the rug out and I'll

513
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: have nowhere else to lean on because he's blown everyone

514
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: else off.

515
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 2: Well, I think the one risk to that, and that

516
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: all of the Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill have

517
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 2: right now when it comes to the government shutdown, that

518
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 2: this again is something that's very relatable for the American people.

519
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: You know, hey, you need to keep the doors open,

520
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: the bill's paid, and so I think there's a risk

521
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: for everyone in Congress right now if you're going to

522
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: be the person who's going to basically shut the government down,

523
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: and then we have people who aren't able to go

524
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: to work, we have natural parks that aren't open, we

525
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: have checks that don't go out that people are expecting.

526
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 2: So I think there's a risk on this one, like

527
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: there was with the debt ceiling, that if you're the

528
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: one standing in the way of getting something reasonable done

529
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: that most people in their lives would think is a

530
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: part of your normal job, that you might not go

531
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: right off the cliff.

532
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, when was the last time we couldn't

533
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: get a bipartisan defense spending bill pass? That seemed extraordinary

534
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: to me.

535
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 2: Well, it is a sign of how fractured not only

536
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: you know, Washington and Republican and Democrats are, but as

537
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: you were saying, Tim like the fractures within the Republican

538
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: party itself.

539
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: The other thing that is interesting to me about this

540
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: era we're in, and I think it's one of the

541
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: lessons of trump Ism, is that Trump campaigned on emotion,

542
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: not on policy. I think he sensationalized race and anti

543
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: institutionalism to incent a certain population of the voters, and

544
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: that has sort of captured the party's imagination. There's an

545
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: utter lack of policy prescriptions. To the time, the Republicans

546
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: rolled into the twenty twenty Republican Convention with no platform

547
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: and sort of happily said, yes, that's by design. It

548
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: wasn't an accident. We just don't have a platform. How

549
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: do you think about that? Is this the shape of

550
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: political battles now, is that it's by design not going

551
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: to have policy prescriptions, and it's by design going to

552
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: appeal to people's emotions and in some cases some of

553
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: their worst instincts.

554
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, I think emotions are easier to push buttons on right,

555
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: love and fear and all of those. And I also

556
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: think in the age of social media, it's a lot

557
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: easier to hit people with emotions faster and on the

558
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: fly and on their phone. So I think there's that.

559
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: I also think policy is very difficult, Like we've already

560
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: talked about some really really hard problems, like solving immigration

561
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: is a big problem for not only cities, but for

562
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: our relations with other countries. So I think sometimes tapping

563
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: into emotions is just an easier route than trying to

564
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: really figure out how we want to deal with trade

565
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: with China or how to deal with AI and coming

566
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: up with a US policy on what we do with

567
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence. So that I do think is one of

568
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: the reasons why it's easier to tap people's emotions.

569
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's not a good hallmark for

570
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: a mature, well functioning society when you tackle emotions and

571
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: don't tackle problems. Well.

572
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: I think it is. One of the things that we

573
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: do elect people for is to actually help us solve

574
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: some problems that cut across states and cities and counties,

575
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: and that is what people are hoping people in office

576
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: will do well.

577
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: But that's our conundrums human beings is we want policy solutions,

578
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: but we tend to vote with our hearts.

579
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: That's right, and we tend to vote for people who like,

580
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: we relate to, or we like or things like that.

581
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: So I think that's human as well.

582
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' candidacy has been interesting to me because he

583
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: was built up as someone who could be Trump in

584
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: a better fitting suit and be an ambassador for some

585
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: of the things that he did as governor in Florida

586
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: that might get national traction. And then he really came

587
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: out of the gates with this anti woke platform. You

588
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: know that your schools, the educational agenda was being taken

589
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: over by liberals and by woke people and people of color,

590
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: and that wokeism was this poison spread acast America. It

591
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: just didn't get any traction. It might have sold in Florida,

592
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: but it didn't work for him nationally. And he's got

593
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: any number of oddities about him as a candidate that

594
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: I think hold him back. People discount how authentically charismatic

595
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is. It's not easy just to repackage yourself

596
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: as Donald Trump. I was just wondering what you thought

597
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: about DeSantis stumbling and these other candidates, some who are

598
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: also expressly sort of Trump wannabes like Ramaswami, others who

599
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: are expressly Trump critics like Chris Christi, and then others

600
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: sort of trying to figure out the middle road between

601
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: those like Nikki Haley. How does that sort out in

602
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: the second tier of sort of people galloping behind Donald Trump.

603
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think a couple of things you touched on there.

604
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: So Ronda sat had a really big night the midterm elections,

605
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of that actually had to

606
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: do with his COVID policies, you know, more so than

607
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: maybe some of the cultural issues he then started to

608
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: turn to. I think a lot of our reporting has

609
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: shown that people in the business community and on Wall

610
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: Street had wished he had stayed more in the lane

611
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: or focusing on the policies that he has enacted in Florida,

612
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: not only maybe around COVID, but in terms of tax

613
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: policy and things about crime and schools in Florida, so

614
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: kind of staying on those issues, but instead he really

615
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: did kind of go into the farther right cultural issues.

616
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: Tried to chase Disney out of the state of Florida right,

617
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: major employer and taxpayer right.

618
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: And that's another sign of where the Republican Party is shifting.

619
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: You know, decades ago, the Republican Party was very pro business,

620
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: and that's a shift now. Some voters really do gravitate

621
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: to DeSantis because of his policies around Disney, but others

622
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: in the business community find that counterproductive to what they're

623
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: looking for, which is really lower taxes or policies that

624
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: help business. So I think that's the Desanta side of things.

625
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: We talked about foreign policy earlier, but one of the

626
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: breakout moments for candidate Nikki Haley in the first Republican

627
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: debate was actually her handling of the questions around foreign policy,

628
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: and her strength on that showed through on the stage.

629
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: So I think this second Republican debate on September twenty

630
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: seventh will be a real moment to see if people

631
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: like Haley, who made some traction in the first debate,

632
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: can add more momentum to their campaign.

633
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: And Trump has said he's not going to be at

634
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: this debate and stead he's going to speak to the

635
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: United Auto Workers union. That's interesting because Trump has always

636
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: positive in himself as a friend of the working American,

637
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: even if he's pursued policies that actually haven't resulted in

638
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: tangible benefits for working class people. Can he just sort

639
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: of skate by the debate processes. He's sort of floating

640
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: on that both the traction he has with a meaningful, say,

641
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: thirty percent of Republican voters, and his own celebrity, that

642
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: he just doesn't need to show up at any of

643
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: these debates.

644
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: So far, it seems like that's right. I mean, he

645
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: skipped the first debate. He had counterprogramming on social media

646
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: where he was interviewed by Tucker Carlson, and it really

647
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: didn't seem to dent him in any meaningful way. If anything,

648
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: it really made the ground shift between the other Republican

649
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,239
Speaker 2: candidates more because they weren't really fighting him, they had

650
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: to kind of dig in with each other. I will

651
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: say that it's quite interesting that Trump's going to show

652
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: up in Detroit on the same day that the other

653
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: GOP candidates are in California. To your point, him, he

654
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: really has made a lot of strides with blue collar

655
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: workers and particularly union workers, which are historically more aligned

656
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: with the Democrats. And it's really interesting because President Biden

657
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: has made himself potentially the biggest pro union president of

658
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: our time. So seeing whether or not Trump is going

659
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: to be able to resonate with union workers in a

660
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: swing state like Michigan is going to be a real

661
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: sign of how he could do next year.

662
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: Which was a move Ronald Reagan perfected back with the teamsters.

663
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: Certain candidates have effectively done this out of the GOP

664
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: in the past.

665
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: I do think the issue of the union workers and

666
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: the autoworkers in Michigan also has some tension built into

667
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: it for Biden because there's not too much he can

668
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 2: do in terms of pulling levers to make this happen

669
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 2: for the UAW workers. But also it's wrapped up in

670
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: some of the policies that Biden has been promoting, which

671
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: is he's very pro union and pro worker, but at

672
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: the same time, some of his IRA money has been

673
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: pushing towards electric vehicles and pushing the car industry in

674
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: that direction, which has some of the workers there saying like,

675
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: we want to make sure we have protections as we

676
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: move into some of these type of futuristic jobs.

677
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: In fact, some of that spending has been in right

678
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: to work states, red states that are non unionized, and

679
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: Biden is in this kind of where on the one hand,

680
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: he I think rightly sees climate change as an existential

681
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: threat and is trying to use the force of the

682
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: federal budget and federal policy to address that by supporting

683
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: the development of electric vehicles, which is a good national

684
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: goal in my mind. At the same time, the unions

685
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: and the auto workers, who have not seen wage increases

686
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: meaningfully in decades, are agitating for that and are understandably

687
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: fearful of that kind of change. And Biden has to

688
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: decide where does he come down to what's the solemnic

689
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: solution to having these worthy goals and a constituency that

690
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: wants him to act in a certain way. And I

691
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: think one of the tests for his leadership is what

692
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: limb will he walk out on? Because he's got to

693
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: walk out on one of them. I think at some

694
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: point he can't have it both.

695
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: Ways, And how do you message that right in a

696
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: clear and succinct way to people that make them understand

697
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: that you're fighting for them, but you're also looking ahead

698
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 2: to the future, right.

699
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: You know, there have been you know, famously Lyndon Johnson

700
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,240
Speaker 1: after the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act

701
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: got pushed through in the early nineteen sixties, his advisors

702
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 1: in the White House said Democrats have lost the South

703
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: forever because of this, and Johnson famously said, well, then

704
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: what's a presidency for that. Sometimes you have to risk

705
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: your presidency to get on the right side of a

706
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: good legislation. And I don't know that Biden is there yet.

707
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: And I think this is about McCarthy too. You know,

708
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: McCarthy hungered for the speakership and now he's right in

709
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: the middle in this government shutdown negotiation. He's gonna have

710
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 1: to pick some size just to get political handiwork done,

711
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: and he may not be able to appease both. And

712
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: it's not clear to me yet that he has the

713
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: kind of backbone to drive in there and make a

714
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: kind of leadership decision like that.

715
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 2: But the interesting thing, Tim, I think is that when

716
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: you think about leaders over time, that people do often

717
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: gravitate to the leaders that are willing to ultimately make

718
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: a hard decision because they kind of understand that. Well,

719
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: at least they thought about what I said, and then

720
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 2: ultimately they made a decision. But they're driving us towards something.

721
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: Indecision by a leader is sometimes the worst kiss of death. Exactly.

722
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to take another break. I could just

723
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: keep going right past these breaks with you, but we're

724
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: going to take a break and then we'll come back

725
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: and pick this discussion up again. I'm back with Peggy Collins,

726
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: Washington Bureau chief of Bloomberg News, and we're talking politics.

727
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: We've talked about the Democrats and the Republicans, Peggy, so

728
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: let's talk about how they'll actually face off in twenty

729
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: twenty four. You know, we left off talking about where

730
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: the Republicans are situated. Donald Trump has four criminal indictments

731
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: sitting on his doorstep. It hasn't pulled him down on

732
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: the polls. It appears that loyalists don't care if he

733
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: breaks the law, even if he gets convicted of it.

734
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: So that's unlikely to be a factor at this point. Though.

735
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: I wonder if the trials play out, if some of

736
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: these come into a courtroom, Georgia will be televised. These

737
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: things tend to have an impact people can't anticipate once

738
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: the public starts paying attention. It happened with the January

739
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: sixth hearings. It's a wild card with the indictment. Still,

740
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: I think, do you think there are vulnerabilities or around

741
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: his candidacy that Democrats haven't exploited yet?

742
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think that what they're waiting to see, as

743
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: you said, Tim, is the intersection of the two. So

744
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: Trump has definitely made a strategic move to tie his

745
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: legal battles and his campaign very closely. He hasn't tried

746
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: to like shed one for the other. Instead, he's really

747
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: intertwined them and kind of said to voters, you know

748
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: that he feels the legal cases are unjust and as

749
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: part of an effort to obstruct his ability to win

750
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: for president again. But as you said, will the Biden

751
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: administration and the Biden campaign, as we get closer to

752
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: the time that Trump has to step into a courtroom

753
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: be able to really tie the two for voters in

754
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: terms of democracy and that theme and really hit on that.

755
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: We saw the Biden administration and Biden himself make a

756
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: big speech right before the November midterms where he really

757
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 2: honed in on this is an election about democray. Will

758
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: he be able to do that at key times next

759
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: year if Trump is still the front runner that it

760
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: really resonates for people if they're seeing Trump in a

761
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: courtroom on TV related to January sixth.

762
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: So take me to task if I'm being too reductionists

763
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: in this next question. But I'm thinking about six swing

764
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: states Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia. Will twenty

765
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: twenty four come down to where voters in those six

766
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: states decide to place their votes.

767
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: Well, we're definitely looking at those states, and we've been

768
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: sending reporters there all year already to talk to things

769
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: about how they feel about the economy and a lot

770
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: of the other issues in the campaign. I will say

771
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: we've also got our eyes on a few other states

772
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: as well. A lot of people moved during the pandemic

773
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: and brought their votes with them. We're looking at states

774
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: like North Carolina as well. Virginia is also an interesting

775
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: state Colorado. But the states that you just mentioned, those

776
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: six key swing states that in twenty twenty were swing,

777
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: are certainly going to be interesting. A couple of signs

778
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: of why we saw the first Republican Debate placed in Milwaukee,

779
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: the Republican Convention next summer in Milwaukee. So the Ross

780
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: Belt for Biden and for Trump is going to be

781
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: huge again. And then the midterms, and in many ways

782
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, you know, Georgia was absolutely crucial. So those

783
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: are places where we're really trying to get a sense

784
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: of what people care about most and how that will

785
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 2: influence their vote.

786
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: Another interesting factor in this next election could be at

787
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: third party movement No Labels. They call themselves No Labels.

788
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: They're not very transparent that crew about how they're funded

789
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: or who's behind it. They are asserting that they're an

790
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: authentically independent, nonpartisan movement that just wants to give voters

791
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: another option. No Labels critics say they're actually just a spoiler,

792
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: that they're in there to strip independence away from Biden

793
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: and then make it easier for Trump, who's a weaker

794
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: national candidate than he is as a primary candidate, to

795
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: make it easier for him to win at the national level.

796
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: How do you think about No Labels at this point?

797
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: Is it much ado about nothing or are they going

798
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: to be a factor.

799
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: I think what we've been hearing most about No Labels

800
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: divides into two camps. One when you think about the

801
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: business community, even some on Wall Street, they're a bit

802
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 2: intrigued and you know, looking at it because they think

803
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: that the no Labels camp is voicing some of that

804
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: more pro business tax policy, moderate Republican policy stance that

805
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: some of them are gravitating for and don't see in

806
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 2: the field right now. And then on the Democratic side,

807
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: as you were saying to him, most of what we

808
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: hear is this concern that any type of third party

809
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: or even another Democrat right against Biden could really dent

810
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: to him enough with independent voters that it could make

811
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 2: the difference.

812
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: So in an environment like this, like, how do you

813
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: think about deploying your artillery and spreading them out? Like

814
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: what are priorities for you as you're managing both the

815
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: way you task your reporters and the kind of information

816
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: or themes you want them to bring back home to

817
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: your readers.

818
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: Well, one of the most important things I've been saying

819
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,959
Speaker 2: in the newsroom here in DC is that we want

820
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: to make sure that we can credibly say to people

821
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: next summer, next fall, in twenty twenty four that Bloomberg

822
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: has been out in the different states around the country

823
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: to talk to people on the ground really about how

824
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 2: they feel about the economy, what they think about the

825
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: people who are running for office, not just drop in

826
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: from New York or DC in October twenty twenty four.

827
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: We want to hear from them now and stay in

828
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: touch with them. So another big theme for us is

829
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: going to be on the economy. How much will the

830
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: economy matter? Because this is a place where Bloomberg really shines.

831
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: We have a lot of people who are really knowledgeable

832
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 2: about the economy, about inflation, about trade, about the FED,

833
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: and we can really add some value, I think, in

834
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: that space to really delineate how people feel about the

835
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: economy and whether or not it is actually ultimately the

836
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: factor that drives people's vote. And I think the third

837
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: thing we're really looking at is this shift in industrial

838
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: policy because of the Biden administration's legislative wins. Does it

839
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: actually resonate in different places around the country that they

840
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: have been able to put some money into new factories,

841
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 2: new jobs, clean energy, or does it end up not

842
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: either coming to communities in time for the election, or

843
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 2: they don't get credit for it and it doesn't end

844
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: up mattering.

845
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: You know, I always think of good politics as bread

846
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: and butter issues like jobs, education, and healthcare. Elections come

847
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: and go, but there's been a fairly steady readout from

848
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: voters for decades that those are the things. They want

849
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: food on the table, they want a better future for

850
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: their kids, they want a roof over their head. And

851
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of other issues that we all

852
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: are concerned about, but they're not as central to most voters. Thinking,

853
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: you've watched a number of elections at this point over

854
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: the years, what is there about this election that's different

855
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: for you, distinctly different from other elections that you've watched

856
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: and participated in.

857
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that's going to be

858
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: most distinctly different from twenty twenty because you know, twenty

859
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: twenty was the year of the pandemic, but we are

860
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: certainly coming out of it now hopefully and settling in

861
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: as the effect of that, he's almost like coming out

862
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: of a war, right, How does that actually change what

863
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 2: people want with their lives from their country, where they live,

864
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: and how they think the future or what the future

865
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: should look like. So I do think that's one of

866
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 2: the biggest macro issues that will come out of this election,

867
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 2: but it's going to be almost impossible to really pin

868
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: down into people go into the voting box.

869
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: I always like to end the show by asking my

870
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: esteem to guess what they've learned, And I'm wondering, what

871
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: have you learned since twenty twenty about the landscape that

872
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: you observe.

873
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 2: Well, it's so interesting, Tim because when I think about

874
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, we had all these grand plans going into now,

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Speaker 2: which we're trying again at this time to really roll out,

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00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: like I was saying to you, really getting reporters out

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00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 2: into different states around the country. We're really focusing on

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00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: the middle class and trying to talk to people in

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00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: the middle class and gather data about them so that

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00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: when we get to November twenty twenty four, we're really

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00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: able to add value to the public by talking about

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00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 2: issues and showing that we talk to people over time.

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00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 2: But the grand plans that we had going into twenty

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00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: twenty and how to cover that election were completely updended

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00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: by the pandemic. So one of the things that it

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00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: taught me as a journalist is to keep reminding yourself

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00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: to expect the unexpected. That we really don't know what's

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00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: going to happen between now and November twenty twenty four.

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00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: So many things will change, but one thing I'm almost

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00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: certain of is things are going to happen that nobody expects,

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00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: and so our job as journalists is just to keep

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00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: doing the best that we can to tell people as

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00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: many of the facts as we can get.

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00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: I could talk to you for hours more. Will you

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00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: promise to come back on again?

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00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 2: I would love that.

897
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: Peggy Collin is the Washington Bureau chief of Bloomberg News.

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00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: You can find her on Twitter at mk m Collins.

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Speaker 1: Here at crash Course, we believe that collisions can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising,

900
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: and always instructive. In today's Crash Course, I was reminded that,

901
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: no matter how much we want to think that voters

902
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: focus on issues and policy when they go to the polls,

903
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: oftentimes they're driven by emotion as much as anything else.

904
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: What did you learn? We'd love to hear from you.

905
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: You can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion handle at Opinion

906
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: or me at Tim O'Brien using the hashtag Bloomberg Crash Course.

907
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening

908
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: right now and please leave us a review. It helps

909
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: more people find the show. This episode was produced by

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00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: the indispensable Ana ma asurakas Moses on Dom and Me.

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00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: Special thanks this week to Michael Falero. Our supervising producer

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00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: is Magnus Hendrickson, and we had editing help from Sagebauman,

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Speaker 1: Katie Boyce, Jeff Grocott, Mike Neitze and Christine Vanden Bilard

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00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: Blake Maples does our sound engineering and our original theme

915
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: song was composed by Luis Garra. I'm Tim O'Brien. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back next week with another crash Course