Speaker 1: Hey, it's Jay Schetty, host of On Purpose. On the
Speaker 1: newest episode of my podcast, we have an extremely special
Speaker 1: interview with Matthew McConaughey. Matthew opens up in a way
Speaker 1: you've never heard before. We talk about identity, purpose, failure, risk, relationships,
Speaker 1: and the parts of his journey he's never shared. If
Speaker 1: you've ever felt stuck, lost, or in transition, this episode
Speaker 1: is for you. You won't want to miss this one.
Speaker 1: Listen to On Purpose with Jayshetty on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2: People pleasing is actually manipulation. You're manipulating people so they
Speaker 2: like you. I'm not some pushover. I actually want people
Speaker 2: to like me, so I am willing to manipulate them
Speaker 2: by staying silent or doing things I don't want to do,
Speaker 2: or not expressing my boundaries because I, at all costs
Speaker 2: just want people to like me.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be here tonight at the Wang
Speaker 1: Theater and bossed with one of my dearest, dearest friends, truly,
Speaker 1: and I want to dive straight in, Mel because You've
Speaker 1: got so much insight, so much wisdom on this that
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate enough to benefit from in our friendship.
Speaker 1: But I want to start by asking you what do
Speaker 1: you think people are most worried about when it comes
Speaker 1: to what others think about them?
Speaker 2: Well, I brought notes because I know Jay asked very
Speaker 2: tough questions. I think that the thing that we're most
Speaker 2: worried about is just that people aren't going to like you,
Speaker 2: that they're going to misunderstand you. That's the thing that
Speaker 2: we're the most worried about. Because if you didn't care
Speaker 2: whether or not people liked you, if you didn't care
Speaker 2: about whether or not people misunderstood you or your intentions,
Speaker 2: you would just go about your life however the heck
Speaker 2: you wanted to right and so truly, if you stop
Speaker 2: and think, like, think about one person in your life,
Speaker 2: who who that's the person whose opinion you worry about
Speaker 2: the most. Imagine if you could go about your life
Speaker 2: and not care if they like you or not, not
Speaker 2: care if they don't understand you or not. And sometimes
Speaker 2: people be like, well it's my boss, Okay, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of bosses out there. If the one that you're
Speaker 2: working for doesn't like you, there's nothing you can do
Speaker 2: about it. But you can always leave the job, and
Speaker 2: so I think that is what's at the heart of it,
Speaker 2: that we are so desperate to be liked and understood
Speaker 2: and loved by others that we live in fear that
Speaker 2: it's not going to happen, and in doing so, we
Speaker 2: basically live a life where we don't really like ourselves.
Speaker 1: So well said, So well said, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: what you're getting at there is so powerful because it's
Speaker 1: almost like we don't even know what with Kate Belove,
Speaker 1: what we're worthy of, what we're able to do, because
Speaker 1: we've constantly lived with that inner critic inside of us.
Speaker 1: There's the outer critic and the inner critic. Tell me
Speaker 1: about how we can learn to quiet that inner critic,
Speaker 1: because sometimes it is your boss, sometimes it is your partner,
Speaker 1: sometimes it is your mom, But there's that inner critic
Speaker 1: inside of you that's stifling you even more.
Speaker 2: Okay, I got to ask you a question first, Should
Speaker 2: I look at you or everybody out here? Like I
Speaker 2: don't know where to look because normally when Jay and
Speaker 2: I are talking and recording a podcast, we don't see
Speaker 2: you guys. So it's so cool to have you here, like,
Speaker 2: for real, thank you for showing up.
Speaker 1: And I think we can. We can look at them.
Speaker 1: I want to be with all of them, get.
Speaker 2: Great, because I feel a little distracted, like I'm ignoring
Speaker 2: you while I'm trying to look at Jay and I
Speaker 2: want you to like me for god sense, even though
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about how we have to stop
Speaker 2: worrying about that. Okay. So the question is about self criticism.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot to unpack here, okay. And the
Speaker 2: first thing to understand is that there are two facts
Speaker 2: that truly amp up self criticism. This is not for me.
Speaker 2: This is from some of the same experts that you
Speaker 2: have brought on too on purpose. The more stressed out
Speaker 2: that you are, the more the self criticism dials up.
Speaker 2: There's some relationship between you being in kind of fight
Speaker 2: or flight and your inability to be kinder and more
Speaker 2: present and compassionate with yourself. So that's number one. If
Speaker 2: you're experiencing an uptick right now because you feel stressed
Speaker 2: and overwhelmed, that's to be expected. Second thing, and this
Speaker 2: is going to blow your frickin mind. Okay, self criticism.
Speaker 2: This is crazy.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to unpack this because I literally
Speaker 2: just talk to a psychiatrist today. At Harvard Medical School,
Speaker 2: who does all this research on body image, and everybody
Speaker 2: is critical of themselves self. Criticism has really gone through
Speaker 2: the roof because check this out. We were never supposed
Speaker 2: to see ourselves. No no, no, no no really really like
Speaker 2: hang with me for I'm out of here. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: let's show let's go back one or two human beings.
Speaker 2: Mirrors back then had all that acid stuff on it,
Speaker 2: so you couldn't even see yourself. There were no glass buildings,
Speaker 2: so you didn't see your reflection. If you saw yourself,
Speaker 2: it was like in the Charles River and it was
Speaker 2: like kind of moving. And so we're not neurologically, physiologically,
Speaker 2: emotionally designed to actually see ourselves. And we are designed
Speaker 2: jay to connect with other people. And so if you're
Speaker 2: looking at other people, you in a nano second, your
Speaker 2: brain immediately goes into this like judge mode because you're judging, Okay,
Speaker 2: is this a person whose energy I vibe with and
Speaker 2: I kind of want to connect with this person? Or
Speaker 2: is this a person whose energys off so I kind
Speaker 2: of want to move away from It happens like that
Speaker 2: part of your wiring because you're wired to connect with
Speaker 2: other people, you're not wired to be watching what you're doing.
Speaker 2: And so what's happened because of zoom, because of FaceTime,
Speaker 2: because of selfies, because of all the videos that we
Speaker 2: take of ourselves, we are seeing ourselves at rates that
Speaker 2: our brains can't compute. And so that same mechanism where
Speaker 2: your brain looks at other people and sizes people up,
Speaker 2: is this a person I want to connect with? Is
Speaker 2: this not you're doing to yourself? And then you add
Speaker 2: on top of it, Jay, the fact that you're also
Speaker 2: in unprecedented levels. You guys, we have access to what
Speaker 2: everybody else is doing, which is just more input. And
Speaker 2: so what does this create? This creates a scenario for
Speaker 2: all of us where we are all self critical and
Speaker 2: we live in a moment of time where you have
Speaker 2: the real you, like the person you are right now,
Speaker 2: the person you are, I don't know what size or raises,
Speaker 2: how tall, how short, whether or not you have an
Speaker 2: acme breakout, whether your hair is phrase, you are who
Speaker 2: you are. But then we all have this idealized self
Speaker 2: that we think we should be and because we're so
Speaker 2: used to kind of looking at ourselves and assessing ourselves,
Speaker 2: and our brain's not wired to really be even thinking
Speaker 2: about how you look or thinking about what you're doing
Speaker 2: in comparison to other people. You've turned that against yourself,
Speaker 2: like it's just so sad because we live like you know,
Speaker 2: and there's this kind of real thin line that you
Speaker 2: and I can unpack between improving your life and squeezing
Speaker 2: as much as you can out of this life that
Speaker 2: you have, really truly allowing yourself to be happier, allowing
Speaker 2: yourself to have more fun, and relentlessly doing it because
Speaker 2: you think there's something wrong with you. Do you see
Speaker 2: the difference? And so when it comes to self criticism,
Speaker 2: everybody and this is something that we all deal with.
Speaker 2: It's really important. There's actually four steps that she goes
Speaker 2: by doctor Ash. Doctor Ash says, there's four steps. Number one,
Speaker 2: you got to recognize that the self criticism is a
Speaker 2: function of culture. We live in a world where you
Speaker 2: see yourself all the time, which makes you more critical
Speaker 2: of self than generations before us period. So it's not
Speaker 2: your fault. You're not broken. I actually think you are perfectly,
Speaker 2: imperfectly beautiful. I do. And even though there are things
Speaker 2: about yourself that you would like to improve or change,
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about how to do that while
Speaker 2: you're actually still kind and accepting of yourself. That's the
Speaker 2: thing to do here. And so number one, you're not
Speaker 2: the problem. The culture's the problem. And another fun fact,
Speaker 2: you know, if you have a smartphone, it is defaulted
Speaker 2: to show you a mirror image. You want to know why,
Speaker 2: because your brain can't actually process what you look like
Speaker 2: to another human being. Kid you not if you go
Speaker 2: into your phone and change the setting on your smartphone
Speaker 2: to have the camera actually reflect the way that people
Speaker 2: see you versus what you see back in a mirror,
Speaker 2: your brain will be like, what is that?
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: I'm not used to seeing that, I'm used to seeing
Speaker 2: this reflected image. And so number one, you're not the problem.
Speaker 2: You are perfectly, imperfectly beautiful as you are. Period number two,
Speaker 2: in order to move your life forward in self criticism,
Speaker 2: you actually have to look backwards. This is super important, everybody,
Speaker 2: because you were not born hating yourself. You were not
Speaker 2: born thinking you're ugly or stupid or dumb or any
Speaker 2: of that stuff. And I know that you've had doctor
Speaker 2: Paul Conti from Stanford on. I know that you've had
Speaker 2: a lot of the amazing experts that talk about how
Speaker 2: somebody else taught you to hate on yourself, that's what happened.
Speaker 2: And the experts basically say that it typically happens between
Speaker 2: the ages of twelve and eighteen, because once you hit twelve,
Speaker 2: your parents are basically freaks and you don't want anything
Speaker 2: to do with them. And the social priority in terms
Speaker 2: of development is I got a bond with my friends,
Speaker 2: So now it becomes a real priority to actually be
Speaker 2: connected to people your age. Here's the problem. This comes
Speaker 2: from doctor Judith Joseph Columbia University. She her research shows
Speaker 2: that if you're kind of in that age rage and
Speaker 2: a kid's like, you're fat, you're ugly, what's over that acne?
Speaker 2: You know, you're a little short, or you walk into
Speaker 2: a school or the only person with brown skin and
Speaker 2: you're among a sea of other white kids and people
Speaker 2: are picking on you, or you just don't feel like
Speaker 2: you belong. That sort of experience to your brain feels
Speaker 2: like physical pain. Yes, and so you were not born
Speaker 2: beating yourself up. Somebody taught you to, and that's an
Speaker 2: important thing to understand. And if you every one of
Speaker 2: you can probably kind of close your eyes and think
Speaker 2: back to when did I think I was ugly? When
Speaker 2: did I start telling myself I wasn't smart enough? When
Speaker 2: did I think my height was a problem or my
Speaker 2: complexion or the freckles or the you know meat wings
Speaker 2: that I call them, you know, my my things that
Speaker 2: no matter how many king what are these tricep things
Speaker 2: I do? It does it's not working. I don't care
Speaker 2: how much creatine crap I eat and the supplements I'm
Speaker 2: popping not working.
Speaker 4: Day.
Speaker 2: You got to go backward before you can go forward,
Speaker 2: because it's important for you to truly get You're not
Speaker 2: born doing this. You were taught to. And here's the
Speaker 2: good news. If somebody taught you to beat yourself up,
Speaker 2: you can unlearn it. You can unlearn it, right, you can.
Speaker 2: So then the third thing, and you guys are not
Speaker 2: gonna like this either because it sounds cheeseball right. A
Speaker 2: lot of the great advice out there is like, oh God,
Speaker 2: eye roll, seriously, do you have to meditate again? Sorry? Jay?
Speaker 2: This comes from doctor Ash, she's been in the Harvard
Speaker 2: Medical School system for twenty years. In a clinical practice,
Speaker 2: you have to come up with a what's called meaningful mantra.
Speaker 2: It's just something that you can say to yourself that's kind.
Speaker 2: And this is where I'm gonna go to my notes,
Speaker 2: because we have some I've got some notes here. So
Speaker 2: doctor Ethan Cross from University of Michigan his recommendation, and
Speaker 2: he's an expert on negative self talking criticism is talk
Speaker 2: to yourself like a friend, meaning use your name, use
Speaker 2: your name. And it sounds kind of weird, but if
Speaker 2: I am kind of feeling negative about something, instead of going, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I always screw things up, you say mel,
Speaker 2: you don't always screw things up. And when you say
Speaker 2: your name, it sort of snaps you out of that
Speaker 2: loop of criticizing yourself. Huge second thing that you can
Speaker 2: do doctor Jim Dodie. He's a neuroscientist and a neurosurgeon
Speaker 2: from Stanford who studies manifesting. And if you really want
Speaker 2: to start to practice a new way of talking to yourself,
Speaker 2: because again you can program your mind to think different
Speaker 2: things than what these idiots from your past taught you
Speaker 2: to say to yourself. And so number one, you want
Speaker 2: to write down what you want to say, and it
Speaker 2: could just be something as like I'm doing the best
Speaker 2: I can. I deserve encouragement I'm gonna do my best
Speaker 2: to be kinder to myself. You can just write down
Speaker 2: something like that, then you read it, then you say
Speaker 2: it out loud, and then you close your eyes, and
Speaker 2: it's important to be calm in order for the coding
Speaker 2: to take hold. According to doctor Dotie, you just visualize
Speaker 2: yourself literally acting like that, and these are ways that
Speaker 2: you can once you recognize you're not the problem. The
Speaker 2: culture is. Second piece is you didn't you weren't born
Speaker 2: doing this. Somebody taught you, so we're gonna unlearn it.
Speaker 2: Third is I'm actually gonna take time because it matters
Speaker 2: how I talk to myself. Like if I followed you
Speaker 2: around when I was in a really bad mood like
Speaker 2: I do with Chris. I don't know if Roddy does
Speaker 2: this with you, but I'm like follow him around like
Speaker 2: a shadow. Why is this happening? Why's that happening? You
Speaker 2: know you really screwed that up. I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2: I used to do that. Proud to say that, But
Speaker 2: if you followed yourself around, I'm not good enough. Things
Speaker 2: never work out for me. It's never going to happen.
Speaker 2: I'm so stupid, Like, no, wonder you don't feel great,
Speaker 2: no wonder, you're not motivated. So you got to actually
Speaker 2: train yourself to say different things you have to And
Speaker 2: because you've been doing this for decades, do not expect
Speaker 2: it to take one week. Don't be like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: said that thing that Melon Jay said, it's not working. Okay,
Speaker 2: like you got to give it time. And the final thing,
Speaker 2: and this is the piece of advice everybody hates from
Speaker 2: doctor Ash, which is you have to stop waiting to
Speaker 2: live your life if you are self critical. Seriously, this
Speaker 2: is so important. Think about this. If you're the kind
Speaker 2: of person that's like, Okay, I'm going to lose some
Speaker 2: weight before I go to a gym, I'm going to
Speaker 2: clear up my acne before I go on a date.
Speaker 2: Let me just put on a pound of makeup and
Speaker 2: a seventy three step morning like facial routine before I'll
Speaker 2: be in the photo. All of the things you're waiting
Speaker 2: to do, whether it's go to the beach, or it's
Speaker 2: put yourself out there or speak up more at work,
Speaker 2: or it's being in the front of the photo instead
Speaker 2: of the back of the photo. All of those things
Speaker 2: you're waiting to do until you either look a certain way,
Speaker 2: or have achieved a certain thing, or you've made a
Speaker 2: certain amount of money, all of those things that you're
Speaker 2: waiting on. The days that you wait, you are saying
Speaker 2: to yourself, I am not good enough for my own
Speaker 2: standards to live the life that I deserve. Just stop
Speaker 2: and really think about that. Like, Jay's not stopping you
Speaker 2: from doing it, I'm not stopping Nobody in this room
Speaker 2: is stopping you from doing anything. You are holding yourself
Speaker 2: back from truly enjoying all that your life has to
Speaker 2: offer you now because you believe, at some future date
Speaker 2: there's an idealized version of you that will be ready
Speaker 2: or more deserving of the things that are available to you. Now,
Speaker 2: stop it. Stop it. You prove it's true, but you
Speaker 2: prove the self criticism wrong when you're like, all right,
Speaker 2: I got weight to lose. That's the point of the gym.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go in and I'm going to
Speaker 2: do it now because I deserve to take care of
Speaker 2: myself regardless of how I may be feeling about where
Speaker 2: I'm at in my life. That's how you do it.
Speaker 2: I know it's a long winded answer.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, guy's not playing around. That was as Wow,
Speaker 1: we've already had a master class from your mouth. Let's
Speaker 1: uh okay, we're gone. See, guys, there's so much to
Speaker 1: unpacking what you said, and I want to start with
Speaker 1: the first point you made, because what was really interesting
Speaker 1: is during my three years in the monastery, I actually
Speaker 1: experienced what it felt like to not see my reflection
Speaker 1: unless I was on the streets and out of the monastery,
Speaker 1: because in the monastery there are no mirrors.
Speaker 2: Well, they don't want you to see what your head
Speaker 2: looks like.
Speaker 3: They don't want you to.
Speaker 1: See what you look like with a shaved Their trust me.
Speaker 1: It's not pretty, but it's true, like you don't see
Speaker 1: your reflection because that's scene as a way of becoming
Speaker 1: self obsessed through the teachings of humility and detachment. And
Speaker 1: I realized what that felt like that when I left
Speaker 1: three years later, I hadn't thought about my physical self.
Speaker 1: And here's something really interesting about having done that for
Speaker 1: that long. You actually start to realize how much more
Speaker 1: there is to you than just your physical self. You
Speaker 1: actually get to explore your mental and emotional capacity and
Speaker 1: ability and potential because you're not bound by just thinking
Speaker 1: this is all I am.
Speaker 2: Dude, can we just stop and cover on that for
Speaker 2: a minute, like for real? We are so obsessed with
Speaker 2: the physical that I don't even know that I've considered that.
Speaker 2: Probably ninety nine percent of my experience of life for
Speaker 2: probably the first fifty five years of my life was
Speaker 2: all the physical. What do you look like? What do
Speaker 2: you feel like like? What do I got out there?
Speaker 2: What can people measure? What are the things that are
Speaker 2: around me? What's the outfit, what's the makeup, what's the hairstyle,
Speaker 2: what's all that stuff? And there's a whole actual life
Speaker 2: that is inside of you that is waiting to open up,
Speaker 2: and we've all been so distracted by the crap on
Speaker 2: the outside that we've forgotten what it feels like and
Speaker 2: what's possible when you truly tap into the thing that's
Speaker 2: deeper than the skin and the hair and the face
Speaker 2: and everything that you're complaining about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's an inner universe that we haven't begun to explore.
Speaker 3: And that's why I love what you shared.
Speaker 1: It resonates so strongly with me because, as Mel was saying,
Speaker 1: we've all been on that zoom screen and we're not
Speaker 1: even looking at the other right, You're just staring in
Speaker 1: the bottom corner, and everyone's staring in their bottom corner,
Speaker 1: and so no one's looking at the slide deck that
Speaker 1: everyone's pretending to talk about, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we've we're distracted again from that very physical sense. And
Speaker 1: one thing you were saying that really resonated with me
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of us do this because
Speaker 1: we get lost in this feeling of trying to shape
Speaker 1: shift and trying to mold and then people please. So
Speaker 1: when we get lost in that loop, we're now trying
Speaker 1: to manipulate and maneuver ourselves. We're trying to self correct
Speaker 1: and self fix and self critique in order to be
Speaker 1: a somewhat not even good enough for ourselves, hoping that
Speaker 1: someone else is gonna say we're good enough. What does
Speaker 1: someone do in the audience right now, who knows that
Speaker 1: they're just constantly trying to people please, They're constantly trying
Speaker 1: to self correct, self critique to be good for someone else.
Speaker 1: What's a barrier or a habit or a boundary that
Speaker 1: they should start with in order to break this cycle?
Speaker 3: To interrupt this patent?
Speaker 2: Okay, so there's two things I want to say about this.
Speaker 2: We got a bunch of are the people pleasers in here?
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to raise her hand like not me, okay great, but.
Speaker 1: They're trying to please you, so they going right raise
Speaker 1: their hands.
Speaker 2: Damn it. This changed my life because I used to
Speaker 2: wear the people pleasing badge like an honor. Well, I'm
Speaker 2: a people pleaser. I'll lay down in front of a
Speaker 2: truck to help somebody. The first thing I want you
Speaker 2: to do is I want you to understand that people
Speaker 2: pleasing is actually manipulation.
Speaker 3: Whoa you?
Speaker 2: Right? People pleaser sounds like, oh I'm weak. I's off
Speaker 2: like I'm a people pleaser. No, you're you're a manipulator.
Speaker 2: Let me, let me and I own this. This is
Speaker 2: going to snap you out of this because we kind
Speaker 2: of soften into the label and then we pretend we're weak. No,
Speaker 2: you're manipulating people so they like you. This is a strategy.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for receiving that. But doesn't it
Speaker 2: feel like a little screwed up and empowering when you're like,
Speaker 2: oh wait a minute, I'm not some pushover. I actually
Speaker 2: want people to like me, so I am willing to
Speaker 2: manipulate them by staying silent or doing things I don't
Speaker 2: want to do or not expressing my boundaries because I,
Speaker 2: at all costs just want people to like me. There
Speaker 2: is nothing soft and weak about that at all. And
Speaker 2: when you look at it that way and you see
Speaker 2: it for what it is, it is a strategy to
Speaker 2: manipulate other people into liking you. That's what it is.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And for me that kind of wake up call because
Speaker 2: that word people please are it kind of feels like
Speaker 2: trying to like hug an octopus, you know, like you
Speaker 2: can't quite get your arms around it. It's very loose.
Speaker 2: But when I was like, whoa, wait, a minut in it,
Speaker 2: I learn this as a behavior to achieve something. There's
Speaker 2: nothing weak about that at all. So that's number one.
Speaker 2: I invite you to just play around with that because
Speaker 2: you can then go oh there I go again. I'm
Speaker 2: doing that thing where I'm not telling the truth, or
Speaker 2: I'm saying yes when I meant no, or I'm like
Speaker 2: just not bringing this up because I'd rather they like
Speaker 2: me and I want to manipulate the situation. That's the
Speaker 2: kind of person that I am. And so that's number one.
Speaker 2: Number two is it creeps up on you. So it's
Speaker 2: so sneaky because it works like if you're a big
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a person that just wants everybody
Speaker 2: to like you, you're a big yes person, and then
Speaker 2: of course you're angry at everybody for you saying yes, right,
Speaker 2: you know, you'll take care of everybody else, and then
Speaker 2: bitch about the fact that you have no time for yourself.
Speaker 2: You know, like it's like and so, but here's the thing.
Speaker 2: You don't see it yet, and so there is. There's
Speaker 2: this incredible person that came on. I want to get
Speaker 2: her name right. It was doctor doctor Laction. She's an
Speaker 2: expert on boundaries, and she said the darnedest thing. She said,
Speaker 2: here's how you can start to get a hold of this,
Speaker 2: because you don't realize how sneaky it is. You have
Speaker 2: to create a pause, like think about creating a little
Speaker 2: bit of a space between you and the world. And
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you an example. Let's say you're
Speaker 2: a teacher, or you're a nurse, or you have a
Speaker 2: job where you're like, go go, go, go, go, go go,
Speaker 2: and it's one of those jobs where you almost never
Speaker 2: even have time to go to the bathroom. You literally
Speaker 2: do not eat lunch when you're hungry, You couldn't possibly
Speaker 2: take a quick break because then you're going to get
Speaker 2: in trouble. Everybody needs you. This is another thing with
Speaker 2: people pleasing. It's how you feel important because if you're needed,
Speaker 2: then it gives you a sense of purpose. We're on
Speaker 2: the on Purpose podcast, and so one of the things
Speaker 2: that she said, which is kind of sneaky, is the
Speaker 2: best way to start to separate yourself from the strategy
Speaker 2: Jay is to pay attention to what your body needs.
Speaker 2: Do you need to go to the bathroom, Do you
Speaker 2: need to eat something right now? Do you need to
Speaker 2: step away from your computer and just take a ten
Speaker 2: minute walk outside, And notice how often when you're thirsty,
Speaker 2: or you got to go to the bathroom, or you know,
Speaker 2: you're sitting in class and you're like, I'm kind of hungry,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to make a sound, you know,
Speaker 2: and pull this thing out of my bed, or I
Speaker 2: don't want to get up in the middle of this
Speaker 2: meeting and excuse myself because I want people to like
Speaker 2: me and respect me. Start to notice where you have
Speaker 2: no actual separation from the world around you and your
Speaker 2: need to just push yourself through it and be liked
Speaker 2: by everybody and not make any waves and not do
Speaker 2: this and make sure that nothing that is your need
Speaker 2: creates somebody having an opinion about you. And so eat
Speaker 2: when you're hungry at work, take a break and go
Speaker 2: the bathroom when you realize you need to, instead of
Speaker 2: holding it because you don't want to leave the meeting
Speaker 2: or you don't want to get out of class. If
Speaker 2: you are burnt out and overwhelmed, go up to your
Speaker 2: manager and say I need a ten minute break. And
Speaker 2: what you're going to notice is how often you're unwilling
Speaker 2: to take care of your own basic needs because you're
Speaker 2: worried about what people are going to think if you do.
Speaker 2: And so that is a way to just start to
Speaker 2: separate yourself. Because when you're a manipulator like that, like
Speaker 2: I used to be, it is so in your DNA,
Speaker 2: you know. So you'll order a cup of coffee and
Speaker 2: they'll get it wrong and be like, oh no, no, you
Speaker 2: don't need to fix it. I'd ordered the Chibe, but
Speaker 2: I'll take the expresso triple shot thing, No problem, no problem,
Speaker 2: I got it. I'm easy, okay. And then you walk
Speaker 2: out and you're like, damn it. They always get it
Speaker 2: wrong in there.
Speaker 3: Do you know why I love that?
Speaker 1: I absolutely love that now because it's so interesting how
Speaker 1: our bodies always know what they need, right. You don't
Speaker 1: have to think about becoming hungry. Your body just tells you.
Speaker 1: You don't have to think about being thirsty. Your body
Speaker 1: tells you you don't need to think about sleep. Your
Speaker 1: body tells you when it's tired. And it's so interesting
Speaker 1: why we struggle today. I'm realizing this literally by talking
Speaker 1: to you right now. We struggle with sleep today, we
Speaker 1: struggle with eating today. We struggle with all of these
Speaker 1: things today because of what you just said, because we've
Speaker 1: ignored the body, yes, and we're trying to figure it
Speaker 1: all out in our mind when the body's been telling
Speaker 1: us and guiding us all along. So this lack of
Speaker 1: alignment that we have between the mind and the body,
Speaker 1: but the body saying do this, do this, do this,
Speaker 1: and the mind.
Speaker 3: Saying I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't because so and so will say that, so
Speaker 1: and so will think that that lack of alignment is
Speaker 1: what makes it so hard to go to sleep when
Speaker 1: you want.
Speaker 2: To correct like how many of us stay awake and
Speaker 2: we're like, okay, I'll watch and have their episode with
Speaker 2: you when you don't want to.
Speaker 1: Oh, in my case, Robie falls asleep just when we
Speaker 1: figured out what we were.
Speaker 3: Going to watch.
Speaker 1: Yes, and now I'm sitting there going on, I have
Speaker 1: to wait for you to watch this time.
Speaker 2: No you don't, No, you don't.
Speaker 1: I end up doing like and so.
Speaker 2: But this is really important because it sounds like a
Speaker 2: dumb suggestion, but it makes a lot of sense because
Speaker 2: how on earth are you going to be able to
Speaker 2: start putting yourself first and drawing bigger boundaries. No, I'm
Speaker 2: not coming home from the holidays. No I am not
Speaker 2: going to take that weekend shift, even though you need
Speaker 2: help at work, I have plans. If you can't start
Speaker 2: to pay attention to the basic needs because you, you know,
Speaker 2: want to please your partner and make sure they're not
Speaker 2: upset with you in the morning, so you're gonna sit
Speaker 2: up late even though you don't want to, then you're
Speaker 2: never going to be able to draw bigger boundaries when
Speaker 2: it feels like the stakes are even higher. And so
Speaker 2: what I love about this pause is it's a way
Speaker 2: to start to interrupt your own behavior so you can
Speaker 2: notice how insidious it is, like how it's everywhere that
Speaker 2: you literally will trip over yourself and stomp on your
Speaker 2: own head as long as people aren't mad at you,
Speaker 2: or they're not disappointed, or you're not going to get
Speaker 2: in trouble, or they're still going to like you, and
Speaker 2: then it's just exhausting. And so I loved that advice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to do. We all want to feel better,
Speaker 1: to have more energy and more focus throughout the day.
Speaker 1: That's why I co founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenet drink
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Speaker 1: your daily mood boost. As I'm listening to you, I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking about this. I'm thinking, if I'm even lucky
Speaker 1: enough to make someone not mad at me, even if
Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to pull that off, I'm probably going
Speaker 1: to go to bed mad at myself. And even if
Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to convince someone to like me, I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to go to bed disliking myself.
Speaker 2: Hm hmm.
Speaker 1: And if someone convinced me to say yes when I
Speaker 1: wanted to say no, I'm going to go to bed
Speaker 1: feeling like I betrayed myself. And so it's a really
Speaker 1: fascinating feeling that we have where like we're trying to
Speaker 1: win in the outside world, being okay to lose in
Speaker 1: the inside world, and that inside world is what we
Speaker 1: live in all day. That's what we're actually seeing through,
Speaker 1: living through, breathing through. It's the lens that everything happens through.
Speaker 1: I'm like, when I look at your journey, mal and
Speaker 1: I love the year you're having. I love I just
Speaker 1: want to give mel her flowers because she's just phenomenal,
Speaker 1: Like she has worked like I've known Mal. I think
Speaker 1: me and Mel have known each other now for like
Speaker 1: i'd say, like seven years, maybe even a bit longer. Yes,
Speaker 1: And Mel works so hard. She has been crushing for
Speaker 1: so many years. She has put in work and time
Speaker 1: and energy and effort out for years. And I'm saying
Speaker 1: that as a friend, as an admired, as a colleague,
Speaker 1: I have seen this human only want to help people
Speaker 1: for years and years and years and help millions of people.
Speaker 1: And when I look at the transformations you've had from
Speaker 1: being a lawyer to being a talk show host, to
Speaker 1: becoming one of the biggest public speakers in the country
Speaker 1: and the world, to go on to write multiple best
Speaker 1: selling books, to go on to have the number one
Speaker 1: podcast in the world, to go on to just conquer
Speaker 1: all of these different fields, what.
Speaker 2: Are you talking about? I am as surprised as you are.
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is what I love about you is that,
Speaker 1: whether there has been external validation or not in different levels,
Speaker 1: in all of these years, you have kept going, You've
Speaker 1: kept pivoting, and you've kept giving. And that to me
Speaker 1: is the sign that you're fueled by something deeper.
Speaker 3: And I know that.
Speaker 1: And the question I have for you is you've pivoted
Speaker 1: so many times in your career, and I'm assuming that
Speaker 1: there are people out there in this audience today who
Speaker 1: are like jam in this pivot right now, like I'm
Speaker 1: trying to build my side hustle. I want to quit
Speaker 1: my job. I want to build this passion. I really
Speaker 1: want to continue my job, but I want to start writing.
Speaker 1: I want to blog. I want to launch a podcast.
Speaker 1: Right there's people have so many visions and dreams. How
Speaker 1: did you get the courage to let go and move
Speaker 1: on multiple times when it's so hard to let go
Speaker 1: of something that feels certain, stable and safe. How did
Speaker 1: you choose uncertainty and unsafety when we all crave safety.
Speaker 2: I think courage is the wrong word. I would use
Speaker 2: the word desperation.
Speaker 3: Haha.
Speaker 2: No, I mean it. I mean it, you guys, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about my personality, but
Speaker 2: I have like negative energy that propols me forward. I'm
Speaker 2: being that serious, you guys, because courage sounds like this
Speaker 2: big thing, and I know there's no courage without fear.
Speaker 2: But the truth is, I hated my life when I
Speaker 2: was a lawyer. I mean I would literally take the
Speaker 2: freaking commuter rail in it felt like a death sentence.
Speaker 2: And then you march from South Station up to High
Speaker 2: Street and then you get in the elevator and I
Speaker 2: would contemplate, why is there no floor thirteen?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: I know, because it's an unlucky building, And then I
Speaker 2: would get in there and I would literally do the
Speaker 2: bare minimum jay because I hated my life. And at
Speaker 2: some point you will get to a point where you go,
Speaker 2: my life doesn't work for me, like it might have
Speaker 2: worked last year, but it's not working now. And you
Speaker 2: will tolerate that, and you'll tolerate it for years. Some
Speaker 2: of you will tolerate it for decades. And there's a
Speaker 2: certain amount of negative energy wired in me in order
Speaker 2: to organize enough of what they call the intrinsic drive
Speaker 2: to get over your own excuses and fears and bs
Speaker 2: and actually do the thing. And so to me, like
Speaker 2: every pivot you guys, was either because like I had
Speaker 2: to put gas in the tank and food on the table.
Speaker 2: I got fired from three different jobs. I mean, it
Speaker 2: sounds fancy to say I was a talk show host,
Speaker 2: but the show sucked, they got canceled, and I don't care.
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem saying it. I tried it.
Speaker 2: I won because I tried, And at some point you're
Speaker 2: going to understand something. You're either going to spend your
Speaker 2: life watching other people do the things you want to do,
Speaker 2: and then you're going to end up on your deathbed
Speaker 2: and go, wow, I really blew it. I didn't push
Speaker 2: myself through all of those fears and those excuses when
Speaker 2: I could have. I really regret how I spent the
Speaker 2: time that I had. So you're either going to spend
Speaker 2: your life watching other people do the things that you
Speaker 2: want to do and then spend a lot of time
Speaker 2: making up excuses, well they're this or they're that, and
Speaker 2: it may be true. There are people in this world
Speaker 2: that have unfair advantages. There are people that are starting
Speaker 2: at a different starting line than you are. There are
Speaker 2: people that are handed a lot of money, there are
Speaker 2: people that aren't. But you got to at some point
Speaker 2: wake up and realize you got what you got. That's
Speaker 2: what you got. You got the cards that have been
Speaker 2: dealt to you are the ones that you have to play,
Speaker 2: and so you can waste your life and your time
Speaker 2: bitching about where you're at and being jealous of your friends,
Speaker 2: which I did for decades, or you will get to
Speaker 2: a point where you are so sick of yourself and
Speaker 2: you're sick of being miserable that you actually do something
Speaker 2: because the cost of staying where you are is so
Speaker 2: much more painful than moving toward the thing you've been avoiding.
Speaker 2: And so for me, whether the organizing principle Jay, was
Speaker 2: I got bills to pay or recognizing nobody is coming
Speaker 2: to fix this and I can either blame this all
Speaker 2: on my husband or wish you know he was in finance.
Speaker 2: I have this funny story where you know, I see
Speaker 2: a friend's kitchen, right, Yeah, I don't know. Have you
Speaker 2: guys ever had that experience in life?
Speaker 1: Jay?
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have, But have you ever
Speaker 2: head that experience where people in your life that you're
Speaker 2: doing life with all of a sudden it's like they
Speaker 2: move to the next town or a nicer building, and
Speaker 2: you're like, how did they have this much money? And
Speaker 2: then you go to their house, right, and they open
Speaker 2: up the door and you're happy for your friend like
Speaker 2: you are. They've worked hard, they deserve this, and they
Speaker 2: give you the glass of wine or the you know,
Speaker 2: juny and you have that expression, and you're like and
Speaker 2: you're trying really nice and have for that, and you're
Speaker 2: like gripping the can so much it's gonna start to spill.
Speaker 2: And as they give you the tour, Jay, it's like
Speaker 2: one restoration hardware display after the other. And then they
Speaker 2: show you the kitchen and you're like, she's got white cabinets.
Speaker 2: That's my and dress more the white, that's what to take.
Speaker 2: And then if you're an immature, negative, people pleasing manipulator
Speaker 2: like I am Jay, and you have no idea how
Speaker 2: to process your emotions like a mature adult, the second
Speaker 2: you get in the car, you turn to your spouse
Speaker 2: like I did, and you're like, why couldn't you be
Speaker 2: in finance? Why do you care of people?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And poor chrisp or Chris literally is like a turtle
Speaker 2: in the car. He's like, I don't know why I'm
Speaker 2: not in finandia it would have made life easier. And
Speaker 2: so you know, for years I would see what other
Speaker 2: people had and I would be jealous. And the cool
Speaker 2: thing about jealousy, like, let's just talk about the cool
Speaker 2: thing about jealousy. You can't be jealous of something you
Speaker 2: don't want. Just think about that. You can't be jealous
Speaker 2: of something you.
Speaker 1: Don't want be jealous about it.
Speaker 2: I'm not jealous of anybody that lives in the fanciest
Speaker 2: penthouse in Dubai. I don't want to live there. No
Speaker 2: offense to Dubai. It's fantastic, that's wonderful for you. That
Speaker 2: does not make me jealous. White kitchen cabinets with the
Speaker 2: marble counters. That's what I got. But so there's something
Speaker 2: in that, like the pull of it. And what I'm
Speaker 2: going to tell you is jealousy is you blocking what's
Speaker 2: meant for you with your insecurity. Jealousy comes up because
Speaker 2: it's a messenger and it's trying to get your attention.
Speaker 2: While you've been sitting there wasting hours and hours and
Speaker 2: hours on Pinterest and blaming everything on your parents and
Speaker 2: the person you're dating or married to, you could have
Speaker 2: gotten to work and just figured out how to create
Speaker 2: what you wanted. Like I spent years thinking that my
Speaker 2: happiness and our finances was Chris's responsibility. Wow, Like, if
Speaker 2: there's things if I want in my life, I'm capable
Speaker 2: of paying for them. I'm capable of like getting clear
Speaker 2: about what I want and then just go to chat
Speaker 2: GTP and be like, this is what I'd like. I
Speaker 2: got a year, what do I do every day for
Speaker 2: thirty minutes? And honest to God, chat gtp's going to
Speaker 2: spit out a plan for you, and then you're gonna
Speaker 2: be like line like this, it's not gonna work for me.
Speaker 2: That would work for Jay, but it's not going to
Speaker 2: work for me, and then you're not going to do it.
Speaker 2: And so I just got to the point at so
Speaker 2: many times, like I got some like why did I
Speaker 2: start a podcast because I was jealous of one of
Speaker 2: my close friends, Jay Shetty. I swear to God, I
Speaker 2: literally be like that, Oh it's a god ham or
Speaker 2: him meditation shit, Like what like he's he started it
Speaker 2: before I could. Damn Jay, Damn damn Oh Jam so
Speaker 2: happy for you with the podcast. And then you got
Speaker 2: to say, well, what's underneath the jealousy. There's something that
Speaker 2: my friend is doing and he's leading the way. And
Speaker 2: if I can get my negative ass out of the way,
Speaker 2: I can actually see that there's something that he's doing
Speaker 2: that's inspiring me. He's not taking anything from me, he's
Speaker 2: giving something to me. Everybody, yes, everybody in your life
Speaker 2: that you are jealous of is giving you something. You know,
Speaker 2: I think about life Jay, as we're all on this
Speaker 2: giant walk together. That's what we're doing. And there are
Speaker 2: going to be times in your life where you're ahead
Speaker 2: of other people because your example can help other people.
Speaker 2: Our friend ed Molette says that you're best equipped to
Speaker 2: help the person you used to be. If you've ever
Speaker 2: had a kid that you know has had learning disabilities
Speaker 2: and you've had to go through the IEP process, you
Speaker 2: are on a walk with the entire world, and that
Speaker 2: experience equips you to help somebody who has not gone
Speaker 2: through that. And then there are going to be times
Speaker 2: where you're behind and everybody in this room could teach
Speaker 2: you something if you're willing to go through your life
Speaker 2: with open arms and an open mind and even see
Speaker 2: the things that you're jealous of. And like, why am
Speaker 2: I on tour? Because he went on one? Like I'm
Speaker 2: just such a copycat, it's unbelievable. Like, Damn, I'm jealous
Speaker 2: Jay's going on tour. Okay, that's a sign there's something
Speaker 2: that he's doing. Oh, I know what it is. He's
Speaker 2: actually with the people that listen to the podcast. I
Speaker 2: want that because I miss you, guys, like I like
Speaker 2: I'm alone Garage and Vermont for crying out loud like
Speaker 2: I need people.
Speaker 3: Oh well, I mean.
Speaker 2: I need I need another drink? Can I have yours?
Speaker 2: Of course, since I spilled myne you didn't, I would
Speaker 2: have thrown it.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you spilled it as much as you
Speaker 1: destroyed it. But but uh, the person you're jealous of
Speaker 1: is not taking anything from you, but is giving something
Speaker 1: to you. I want everyone to write that down. Mel
Speaker 1: just said that. Write it down. That is the single
Speaker 1: best advice I've ever heard in my entire life on
Speaker 1: overcoming jealousy and envy. Really, that is not because because
Speaker 1: you constantly think someone's taking up your space, taking up
Speaker 1: your opportunities, taking up every single access point, taking up
Speaker 1: the network. You think that, and because you think that,
Speaker 1: you think there's no space left for you. It's so
Speaker 1: you think there's only a finite number of seats, and
Speaker 1: so if someone else taking all those seats, then there's
Speaker 1: no seat for me. That is the single best advice.
Speaker 1: For give them a round applause as insane. Single best advice.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna say, Jay, is if you could text
Speaker 2: that to me because being menopausal, I will forget that.
Speaker 2: The second thing to you, and.
Speaker 1: Everyone else will tag us. Everyone else will tag us
Speaker 1: and put it out melt. Because you've been on the
Speaker 1: podcast I think two or three times. This might be
Speaker 1: the third or fourth. We're not going to do the
Speaker 1: final five with you. Before we take some questions. I
Speaker 1: want to do a new game that we invented for
Speaker 1: the stage, and you get to be involved as well.
Speaker 1: It's called it's called Vibe Check. And there are these
Speaker 1: two paddles I'm gonna give you. One says it's a
Speaker 1: vibe and the other one says not a vibe. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask you, guys what you think first. The melth
Speaker 1: is gonna tell us the truth. So I want to
Speaker 1: hear you do your best rendition. You can do better
Speaker 1: than that. Brilliant. I love it. I'm going to hand
Speaker 1: these to mouth.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to make sure I understand this because
Speaker 2: I want you to like me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read I'm going to know it's like not
Speaker 1: in yeah, and this means it's in correct.
Speaker 2: I red green, Okay, I get it.
Speaker 1: Now, I'm going dotand the one I'm going to read
Speaker 1: you different scenarios, and we're going to get the audience's
Speaker 1: reactions first. Then we're going to get Mel's reaction, then
Speaker 1: her explanation of her reactions. Great, all right, So the
Speaker 1: first one, your friend really wants to go to an
Speaker 1: event where they won't know anyone, but you've had a
Speaker 1: really stressful week at work and are drained, So you
Speaker 1: say no. Is it a vibe or is it not
Speaker 1: a vibe? Say it's a vibe. If it's a vibe,
Speaker 1: for those who it's not a vibe, all right, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of over to Mel, I'll really again, your
Speaker 1: friend really wants you to go to an event where
Speaker 1: they won't know anyone, but you had a really stressful
Speaker 1: week at work and are drained, so you say no.
Speaker 2: Well, if they want to go to an event where
Speaker 2: they don't know anybody, then I better not show up.
Speaker 2: Otherwise they know somebody.
Speaker 1: HA good answer, Mel, I like that. That's awesome, all right.
Speaker 1: This time Will asks you to make noise. You decline
Speaker 1: a project at work because you don't feel confident you
Speaker 1: can handle it, even though it could have been a
Speaker 1: big career move. Is it a vibe? Make some noise.
Speaker 1: It's not a vibe. It's not a vibe.
Speaker 2: Yes, no, yeah, definitely not a vibe. We got successful
Speaker 2: people in the audience tonight. You know, you say yes
Speaker 2: to that kind of thing you do, you do, Oh.
Speaker 1: This one's going to be interesting. You're dating someone who
Speaker 1: treats you well but doesn't challenge you emotionally or intellectually.
Speaker 1: You stay in the relationship because they really take care
Speaker 1: of you. Is it a vibe?
Speaker 3: It's not a vibe?
Speaker 1: No, oh, all right, explain mel you're saying it is.
Speaker 3: They said it's not.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think it depends on what you value.
Speaker 2: Like literally, you can have a therapist that challenges you emotionally.
Speaker 2: I actually, you know, I say, I've said to my
Speaker 2: my our kids that you know, I think about the
Speaker 2: person that you're going to create a life with as
Speaker 2: your home base. And so for me, peace is what
Speaker 2: I prioritize. So if you have somebody that takes care
Speaker 2: of you, but they're not like challenging you emotionally, I
Speaker 2: don't think the person that you're with has to be
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of everything. And you know, like if
Speaker 2: you are, that's different than saying you're you're with somebody
Speaker 2: who just is like the Walking Dead. But what I
Speaker 2: heard in that question is a like this thing that
Speaker 2: happens in relationships where you constantly think is there's somebody
Speaker 2: better out there and you're searching for this sort of
Speaker 2: Frankenstein version of a human being where you take a
Speaker 2: little bit of this and a little bit of that
Speaker 2: and a little bit of this, and you forget that
Speaker 2: if you got eighty percent of the things that actually matter,
Speaker 2: you're with somebody who's loyal, who's kind to you, who
Speaker 2: cares about you, who is interested in learning. But you know,
Speaker 2: anybody can develop skills and becoming more self aware that's
Speaker 2: a skill. Becoming more like emotionally aware, that's a skill.
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, one of the big things,
Speaker 2: especially as a mom, that I keep saying to my
Speaker 2: kids is we get so obsessed about the shiny stuff
Speaker 2: on the outside, like we've been talking about, that we
Speaker 2: actually don't give enough value to the things that matter
Speaker 2: over the long haul. Yes, because you know, having been
Speaker 2: with Chris for thirty years, I've hated the man at times,
Speaker 2: like I literally, And it's about whether or not you're
Speaker 2: with somebody that when you come home you're going to
Speaker 2: exhale that when you're going through a hard time, you
Speaker 2: know that they're going to be there for you and
Speaker 2: that you're going to be there for them. That this
Speaker 2: is a person that may not have it all, because
Speaker 2: none of us do, but it's a person that's willing
Speaker 2: to grow with you and to try, and so to me,
Speaker 2: I think that that's what I heard in that.
Speaker 1: I love it. Great answer, great answer. All right, last one.
Speaker 1: You guys having fun also, all right, last one, last
Speaker 1: one before we take some questions. Okay, you have a
Speaker 1: close friend who always dates people who are bad for them.
Speaker 3: It can relate, right, all right.
Speaker 1: You've said things in the past and they haven't listened.
Speaker 1: You see them making a major mistake again, but you
Speaker 1: decide not to say anything this time. Is it a vibe.
Speaker 1: It's a vibe, they're saying, it's a vibe to not
Speaker 1: say anything this time. Already again, you have a close
Speaker 1: friend who always dates people are bad for them. You've
Speaker 1: said things in the past and they haven't listened. You
Speaker 1: see them making a major misstake again, but you decide
Speaker 1: not to say anything this time. Oh, disagreement again.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why, because
Speaker 2: let them doesn't mean them like everybody loves that. But
Speaker 2: there's the let me part, And the reason why they
Speaker 2: didn't listen is because you criticize them and you were
Speaker 2: judgmental and you thought you knew better, and so you,
Speaker 2: just like I have done in my life, made this
Speaker 2: mistake by thinking I know better, I actually pushed somebody
Speaker 2: away from me and right into the arms of that person.
Speaker 2: And so I wouldn't say what I had said in
Speaker 2: the past, but I might say you don't seem like yourself.
Speaker 2: I might say, have you thought about whether or not
Speaker 2: you're happy, because I want you to be happy, and
Speaker 2: if you're happy in this, I actually want you to
Speaker 2: this person around. And what's going to happen is by
Speaker 2: doing that, not judging, you're now stirring up tension. They're
Speaker 2: not an idiot. People know when they're with somebody who
Speaker 2: treats them like crap. But when we judge and we
Speaker 2: think we know better now, we are piling on judgment,
Speaker 2: which makes them feel more trapped and ashamed because they know.
Speaker 2: And so you taking an approach that is more of
Speaker 2: the let me side of this, that's like, let me
Speaker 2: be more compassionate, let me just say I want you
Speaker 2: to be happy, and you don't seem happy, and just
Speaker 2: I'm here, and if us all going out to dinner
Speaker 2: together is gonna like bring you closer. I would love
Speaker 2: to go out to dinner with you in this person,
Speaker 2: and then they're gonna have to sit with that. But
Speaker 2: that's how you keep somebody closer, and you make it
Speaker 2: safe for them to come to you when things get
Speaker 2: hard and when they're going to leave, because you know,
Speaker 2: also if this is somebody that has been doing this
Speaker 2: over and over, it's a pattern and this is something
Speaker 2: that they're going to keep heating, and it's going to
Speaker 2: take time for them to see that they're worthy. And
Speaker 2: so the worst thing you could do is push them
Speaker 2: toward the other person by being judgmental. You want to
Speaker 2: keep them very close, particularly if you're worried about them.
Speaker 1: Beautiful Mel, Mel, I love, I love the disagreement in
Speaker 1: the room, but coming to a nice wholesome agreement. We
Speaker 1: wanted to make this night special. The fact that you've
Speaker 1: come out for a live taping of the recording. I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that we get you involved. And
Speaker 1: so now Mels kindly agreed to Mel, and I would
Speaker 1: love to take your questions. I'm going to have Taylor
Speaker 1: from my team coming around. She has a microphone. If
Speaker 1: you have a real, genuine, burning question that you'd wanted
Speaker 1: to ask Mel, something, your opportunity.
Speaker 2: It's going to make j blush.
Speaker 1: Raise your raise your hand, and Taylor will come and
Speaker 1: find you.
Speaker 3: This is Taylor.
Speaker 1: Everyone makes some noise for Taylor and the brown Blazer.
Speaker 1: Be nice to her, otherwise she won't pick you.
Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, You guys are so good looking.
Speaker 1: Please stand up when you ask your question?
Speaker 3: What's your tell us? Your name? Hey man? How's it going?
Speaker 1: Fantastic ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 5: I'm such an honor, such an honor to be here
Speaker 5: with this Melanjay, Oh my god. Danny Wadwani born and
Speaker 5: raised in Ghana, West Africa, Indian by.
Speaker 6: Origin, being in Boston for twenty years now amazing. Here's
Speaker 6: my question for you, in all that you've shared, in
Speaker 6: all that you've become, when you are envisioning the better Mel,
Speaker 6: the male you've envisioned, or the highest truest version of Mel,
Speaker 6: where do you go to to tap into that source
Speaker 6: of power, courage and reinforcement to push that male forward
Speaker 6: or to capture where that male is trying to go
Speaker 6: because we all have moments where we want.
Speaker 3: To be somewhere.
Speaker 5: Or we think we can get there, but we're doubting,
Speaker 5: and so much is going on around us where we
Speaker 5: we cannot silence the noise.
Speaker 3: There must be.
Speaker 1: A source of power or a source of.
Speaker 3: People, or a source of.
Speaker 5: Something that people like you and J tap into it
Speaker 5: to say, I can absolutely effin do this. I'm going
Speaker 5: to go from on pourpers to.
Speaker 3: Ju to everyone.
Speaker 1: Thank you great. First question, you want me to take
Speaker 1: a verse to me?
Speaker 2: He said, okay, oh that's right. Well I was going
Speaker 2: to see how you were going to ask whatever you want,
Speaker 2: So I guess I want to I want to approach
Speaker 2: this two ways, because what you're actually talking about is
Speaker 2: cultivating a sense of faith in your ability to make
Speaker 2: things turn out without knowing whether or not they do.
Speaker 2: And so there is this thing that I say to
Speaker 2: myself when it feels like things are not happening fast enough,
Speaker 2: or oh there's another job I just got fired from,
Speaker 2: or oh there's another bill, like all those moments of
Speaker 2: my life where you know, it's funny, you can define
Speaker 2: what you want, but oftentimes you get it, but it's
Speaker 2: not how you thought you would, And so I cultivated
Speaker 2: this kind of saying for myself where I would literally
Speaker 2: say to myself, I refuse to believe that this is
Speaker 2: how it ends.
Speaker 1: I love that that.
Speaker 2: I believe that this moment, no matter how sucky it is,
Speaker 2: is preparing me for something in the future that I
Speaker 2: do not know is going to happen. And the reason
Speaker 2: why I know that this works is because each and
Speaker 2: every one of you. You can sit in this moment
Speaker 2: with Jay and Me and everybody here right now, and
Speaker 2: if you look back on your life, you can see
Speaker 2: how everything that happened, good or bad. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: you deserve any of the bad things, but you can
Speaker 2: see how everything that happened led you here right now,
Speaker 2: that every day, every experience right is just a brick
Speaker 2: in the path of life. And if that is true,
Speaker 2: which it is, then it is also true that where
Speaker 2: you are in this moment is also a brick on
Speaker 2: that same path, and it is leading you somewhere. And
Speaker 2: I choose to believe that that somewhere that it's leading
Speaker 2: is way bigger and more amazing and cooler than you
Speaker 2: could possibly imagine. Now. It may be seventeen years before
Speaker 2: you look back on this moment and say, that's why
Speaker 2: that happened, Because you know, when I invented the five
Speaker 2: second role, counting five four three two one to get
Speaker 2: out of bed when we were eight hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: in debt, it was nineteen miles from here. February two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, Tuesday morning. One decision changed my life.
Speaker 2: I had no idea in that moment that that little
Speaker 2: countdown thing would be the brick that would lead me
Speaker 2: all the way here. I'll share another story. I for
Speaker 2: years would watch people that wrote books and had podcasts
Speaker 2: and all this stuff be asked to be interviewed by
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey, and I would always sit there going, why
Speaker 2: am I not getting asked? And then I would say
Speaker 2: to myself, one of these days, it's going to happen
Speaker 2: one of these that you have. If it hasn't happened yet,
Speaker 2: here's another one, it's because it's not meant to happen now.
Speaker 2: And so when Jay acknowledged me for all the crazy
Speaker 2: stuff that's been going on this year, it occurred to me, Oh,
Speaker 2: that's why it didn't happen then, because I was being
Speaker 2: held for a different moment you are being held for
Speaker 2: a different moment and cultivating that faith in yourself that
Speaker 2: you have the capacity to keep going, that there are
Speaker 2: lessons that you still need, that there is some bigger
Speaker 2: possibility in the future that is waiting for you, which
Speaker 2: is why it's not happening now. And there's that famous
Speaker 2: I think. I don't know if it was jay Z
Speaker 2: that set up, but literally the genius thing that both
Speaker 2: Jay and I have done is we just don't quit.
Speaker 2: We don't quit it. And I do think you have
Speaker 2: to outlast yourself because you're the one who's gonna quit.
Speaker 2: You're not against Jay or me, it's you against you.
Speaker 2: And so when I think of the I can't remember
Speaker 2: the word that you use to describe like the version
Speaker 2: of me, the version of me that I think about
Speaker 2: as somebody who reminds herself all the time, no matter
Speaker 2: what's going on. Now, I choose to believe this is
Speaker 2: in service of something that I can't even imagine that's
Speaker 2: going to happen, and I trust that at some point
Speaker 2: I'll know. And my job now is not to doubt,
Speaker 2: it is to just keep going.
Speaker 1: We all want to feel better, to have more energy
Speaker 1: and more focus throughout the day. That's why I co
Speaker 1: founded Juni, a sparkling adaptagenate drink made with powerful ingredients
Speaker 1: like ushwagandha and it's designed to boost your mood, support
Speaker 1: your focus, and give you natural energy, all without the crash.
Speaker 1: Get your daily mood boost with Juni at Whole Foods
Speaker 1: Market or head to Drinkjuni dot com to find a
Speaker 1: store near you. I remember one of my monk teachers
Speaker 1: used to say to me, if there's something you desire
Speaker 1: and it hasn't manifested yet, because of three things. One
Speaker 1: is the universe and God saying not right now. The
Speaker 1: second is not like this, and the third is I've
Speaker 1: got something better planned.
Speaker 2: Well like that one.
Speaker 1: And I have seen that in my own life, and
Speaker 1: I think that's what Mel saying.
Speaker 3: And that's why it made me think.
Speaker 1: That I always used to believe that my imagination was
Speaker 1: big and beautiful, only to realize that the universe, in
Speaker 1: God's imagination was far, far greater than anything I could
Speaker 1: imagine for myself. And it's that trust, in that moment
Speaker 1: when you think your imagination is better than God's in
Speaker 1: the universes, it's in that moment when you're not getting it.
Speaker 1: That you have to live what Mel's saying in that
Speaker 1: I refuse to believe it ends like this. I love
Speaker 1: that statement and another one that I love for myself
Speaker 1: that I've always said, and it comes back to the
Speaker 1: same advice that Mel was giving earlier. We all need
Speaker 1: montras to keep us going. Mine has always been this
Speaker 1: only makes the story better. Every time I get rejected,
Speaker 1: I've just collected something that makes the story better when
Speaker 1: I get to tell it, and when I tell my
Speaker 1: story in five, ten, fifteen years time, this moment just
Speaker 1: made that story better because everyone I respect and everyone
Speaker 1: I look up to has had that same story. If
Speaker 1: you're failing, you're having the same story is the person
Speaker 1: who's successful. If you're losing, you having the same story
Speaker 1: as the person who's winning. Now, if you're losing right now,
Speaker 1: you're having the same story as the person who wins
Speaker 1: in ten years.
Speaker 3: That's what they did too.
Speaker 1: They didn't win their first championship, they didn't win their
Speaker 1: first league. It didn't work that way, and so this
Speaker 1: only makes the story better. But this only makes the
Speaker 1: story better.
Speaker 3: So so good, and that helps Taylor. Where are you? Taylor?
Speaker 1: Taylor's over there. Who you're handing the mic to Hello,
Speaker 1: what's your name?
Speaker 4: Hello, My name is Tara from Boston.
Speaker 3: Tara's nice to me. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: You have been part of my life for many years.
Speaker 2: You have no idea, so thank you. I have a question.
Speaker 3: It's for both of you.
Speaker 2: How can you lacko of guilt.
Speaker 4: Or compassion from those who have caused you the most pain?
Speaker 4: Feeling bad or like wanting to help the people that
Speaker 4: have hurt you. I'm going to be very honest because
Speaker 4: that's just who I am. I think a lot of
Speaker 4: my you know, my family unfortunately has hurt me in ways.
Speaker 4: So I'm just trying to find as I get older,
Speaker 4: you know, how do I let go of that guilt?
Speaker 4: I want to give them compassion.
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, oh, well, I think you have
Speaker 2: to ask yourself, how is the way that you're doing
Speaker 2: it now helping you? Is it working?
Speaker 4: I have I don't know, I don't I don't really know.
Speaker 2: This is the only thing that has helped me. And
Speaker 2: I relate to the question, and I don't know anything
Speaker 2: about your background, so I don't want to presume like anything,
Speaker 2: but you are not responsible for what was done to you.
Speaker 2: But you are responsible for what you do next, and
Speaker 2: I choose to believe that beings basically families. Well, first
Speaker 2: of all, you know, families teach you how to love
Speaker 2: people you hate. That's why they have families. Second, you know,
Speaker 2: we've had expert after expert, but chan I come on
Speaker 2: and ironically we've dropped an episode today about emotionally immature parents.
Speaker 2: People can only give you what they have to give.
Speaker 2: This does not excuse abuse. This does not mean that
Speaker 2: you didn't deserve to have family or past experiences where
Speaker 2: you felt seen and taken care of and love for
Speaker 2: who you are and support it. But for me really
Speaker 2: being able to separate myself from the hurt that was
Speaker 2: caused and look through it with steely cold eyes and
Speaker 2: basically go, you know, if it wasn't given to your parents,
Speaker 2: they can't give it to you. And I have chosen
Speaker 2: to stop punishing people who did the best that they
Speaker 2: could with the situation they were in, the trauma that
Speaker 2: they had their own life experiences, because I don't like
Speaker 2: carrying around that judgment and hate. I don't like constantly
Speaker 2: living in the past. It is so much easier and
Speaker 2: freeing to basically look through the eyes of compassion and
Speaker 2: say I deserved more, and I see fully you were
Speaker 2: not equipped to give me what I deserve. And as
Speaker 2: long as I hold judgment over what happened, I am
Speaker 2: still in the past. I am still suffering. You know,
Speaker 2: there was this analogy. I think it's TD Jakes and
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey, and I believe the context is that he
Speaker 2: was counseling her about her relationship with her mother, and
Speaker 2: he basically said, in life, there are people who have
Speaker 2: a quarter cup capacity. That's what they got. They got
Speaker 2: a quarter cup of love and a ten and patience
Speaker 2: to give. And then there are those of us, probably
Speaker 2: most of us in the room, that have a gallon need.
Speaker 2: If somebody only has a quarter cup to give you
Speaker 2: and they have poured all of that into a person
Speaker 2: who has a gallon need, we will not feel satiated,
Speaker 2: seen or taken care of. Ever, there's this massive mismatch,
Speaker 2: and no amount of judgment, no amount of anything, is
Speaker 2: going to change the fact that they are who they are.
Speaker 2: This is what happened. But you get to choose what
Speaker 2: happens next. And for me, learning to say this person
Speaker 2: is who they are, let them be who they are Now,
Speaker 2: I get to choose how much time do I put
Speaker 2: into this, how much energy do I want to look
Speaker 2: and see and understand what they went through so that
Speaker 2: I feel more compassion. And it's not as personal as
Speaker 2: it feels. It's a tricky thing to do, and it's
Speaker 2: a lifelong process because they're going to continue to trigger
Speaker 2: the hell out of you because they are who they are.
Speaker 2: But you get to choose how much time and energy
Speaker 2: you put into it. You get to choose what kind
Speaker 2: of relationship you want to create or not with the
Speaker 2: people that hurt you in the past, and that's where
Speaker 2: your power is.
Speaker 1: Tarah, I'll just say I love everything else said, and
Speaker 1: the only thing I'll add is if you want to
Speaker 1: feel compassion for anyone that hurt you, it starts with
Speaker 1: first being compassionate to yourself and allowing yourself the opportunity
Speaker 1: to feel angry, to feel betrayed, to feel hurt. Then
Speaker 1: you'll rise to maybe wanting to feel distant, maybe not
Speaker 1: wanting to be involved, and then me and me, one
Speaker 1: day you'll desire to feel compassionate, truly in a deep way.
Speaker 1: Compassion's at the top of the ladder. It's not the
Speaker 1: first step. And when you want to feel it. On
Speaker 1: day one, it almost stops you from taking the first
Speaker 1: step on the ladder. So the first step on the
Speaker 1: ladder is anger, you're on the first step, and the
Speaker 1: fifth step is I don't want anything to do with them,
Speaker 1: and then the tenth step is I see why they
Speaker 1: treated me that way.
Speaker 2: I get it, and then you're free.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you? All right, Taylor? Are you picking next? Hey?
Speaker 3: Tell us your name.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 7: I'm Andrew Giankin Terry and I'm the co founder of
Speaker 7: the Whiny Guiny and I want to understand how you
Speaker 7: took hobbies and turn them into businesses to drive your
Speaker 7: message forward.
Speaker 3: It's a great question. Do you want to go first?
Speaker 2: Man? Sure, because I want to know all your secrets
Speaker 2: so I can copy.
Speaker 1: The reason why I loved that question is because, at
Speaker 1: least for me, I never believed this would ever be
Speaker 1: my livelihood when I left the monastery, and I knew
Speaker 1: I just wanted to spread the wisdom i'd learned. I
Speaker 1: was happy and satisfied doing it on evenings and weekends.
Speaker 1: So I would put together events of five to ten people.
Speaker 1: If they'd show up in the heart of London and
Speaker 1: talk to five to ten people, I'll do it for free.
Speaker 1: There was no social media, there was no video, nothing
Speaker 1: was recorded, there was no content because I just got
Speaker 1: to do what I was passionate about. And when I
Speaker 1: started to do that with no pressure. By the way,
Speaker 1: when I did that, there was no pressure because I
Speaker 1: didn't need a thousand people in the audience. I didn't
Speaker 1: need a million views, I didn't need one hundred thousand followers.
Speaker 1: I could just be present. I then felt to myself, well,
Speaker 1: I want to share this with more people. Maybe I
Speaker 1: should put a video out. Maybe that will reach more people. Again,
Speaker 1: that was the last thing I wanted to do at
Speaker 1: the time, but I'll tell you a bit about my
Speaker 1: story in the second half. And so I put that out.
Speaker 1: And then what happened is I got to a point
Speaker 1: in my life where I had two hundred million views
Speaker 1: on my videos, but I was four months away from
Speaker 1: being broke, and I had this really interesting reflection. I thought,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm trying to teach the world abundance
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to help the world live their purpose
Speaker 1: and their passion. But I don't know if I can
Speaker 1: even do this for longer than the next three months,
Speaker 1: because I can't even put food on the table through it.
Speaker 2: Cee J. It's not courage at all. Listen everybody, it's
Speaker 2: got a problem.
Speaker 1: It's got a problem to solve. And so I realized
Speaker 1: what I had to do first of all. But the
Speaker 1: reason is when you start with thinking you want to
Speaker 1: build a business, it's really hard because that's where you
Speaker 1: don't get to fail, you don't get to try, you
Speaker 1: don't get to choose, you don't get to play because
Speaker 1: there's too much pressure. Then when the pressure pulls up
Speaker 1: and you think about it, you look at the first
Speaker 1: thing for me was how can I serve people best?
Speaker 1: And what are they truly looking for from me?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: How do I serve people best? What's the impact that
Speaker 1: I can have that's the greatest, and what do they
Speaker 1: truly want from me? That's different? And that's how we
Speaker 1: started the Genius Community, which was my membership app that
Speaker 1: we launched seven years ago now, and it became the
Speaker 1: pillar because what people wanted they were watching these videos,
Speaker 1: but they were like, Jay, we want weekly access to you.
Speaker 1: We want to hear your ideas, we want to hear
Speaker 1: your insight, we want to almost feel like we're getting
Speaker 1: a workshop from you. Every single week, and so for
Speaker 1: seven years, every single week I gave a private workshop
Speaker 1: to a group of people who subscribed to Genius. That's
Speaker 1: how it started for me. And so what I'm saying
Speaker 1: to you is it starts as a passion, it starts
Speaker 1: as a hobby, and then you figure out what you
Speaker 1: can do for people that they truly want from you
Speaker 1: and that you can serve them differently with, and then
Speaker 1: you build around that. You don't just go I'm going
Speaker 1: to try and build this random thing and I think
Speaker 1: this is what people want and this because what ends
Speaker 1: up happening is you waste time, money and energy. You
Speaker 1: take a moment, take a beat to listen to the
Speaker 1: people you're serving and ask them, speak to them, connect
Speaker 1: with them. I always say to people, if you've got
Speaker 1: a hundred followers, they can share so much with you
Speaker 1: about why they love you and why they follow you.
Speaker 1: You don't need to wait, like Mel was saying earlier,
Speaker 1: you don't need to wait till you have a million
Speaker 1: followers to launch a business. You can have a hundred followers.
Speaker 1: That creates an amazing business for you because you deeply
Speaker 1: understand their need, You serve them, and you take care
Speaker 1: of them, and I think the people that get to
Speaker 1: take care of millions of people who started off as
Speaker 1: people who took care of five and that's where it
Speaker 1: all begins. And so take care of whoever's there, connecting
Speaker 1: and resonating right now and let it flow.
Speaker 2: I would add one other thing because it sounds like
Speaker 2: you kind of know what you want to do. So
Speaker 2: I think the mistake that everybody makes, especially in today's world,
Speaker 2: because we live in the most amazing time. You guys,
Speaker 2: you can legally stalk people. There is somebody doing this
Speaker 2: business somewhere and they have shared the formula. Spend a
Speaker 2: year being a student of it. You better believe. A
Speaker 2: year before I started this podcast, I was all up
Speaker 2: in Jay's Girl. I was watching everything this man was doing.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm like two episodes a week. Jay's doing
Speaker 2: two episodes a week. I'm doing like all the people
Speaker 2: that are at the top are doing a daily episode.
Speaker 2: They're doing two epos. The formula is there, and now
Speaker 2: there's going to be a problem. So give yourself a
Speaker 2: year to be a student of what you want to
Speaker 2: be a master of. Search for formulas. What are people
Speaker 2: doing that are succeeding Jay's wright listen to the people
Speaker 2: that are there and what's missing, and here's gonna be
Speaker 2: the problem. You're gonna literally be like, well, then I'm
Speaker 2: God being Jay. Then I'm doing it like them. Dude,
Speaker 2: You're gonna make it your own because you're your own person.
Speaker 2: But everybody in the history of time basically kind of
Speaker 2: does the same thing. There are no new ideas for
Speaker 2: crying out loud, and so you're literally gonna go but
Speaker 2: they're doing it this way, and I gotta make it
Speaker 2: my way, and it's got to be special, and it's
Speaker 2: got to have a logo, and it's got to do
Speaker 2: all this. And so then you're gonna avoid doing what
Speaker 2: are called the reps, the boring, tedious, annoying things that
Speaker 2: successful people do in the dark. It gets you no
Speaker 2: credit and no money, but that actually builds the business.
Speaker 2: And so if you want to turn a hobby into
Speaker 2: a business, be a student. First search for the formulas.
Speaker 2: Then take another year to actually show up every day
Speaker 2: and put your money where your mouth is and do
Speaker 2: it broke, and do it in the dark while nobody
Speaker 2: cares and is paying attention. And then pay attention to
Speaker 2: the ten people that have shown up because they're your people,
Speaker 2: and if you do that, within two years, you will
Speaker 2: be shocked at what you can create. Shocked.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, everyone, I want you to know we
Speaker 1: have got a whole second half in store for you.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be guiding used with some interactives, go to meditation,
Speaker 1: but Mel has to jump on a flight. She's gonna
Speaker 1: show in New York.
Speaker 3: So I want you to give it up for my friend.
Speaker 2: Now, Robs, get on your love you guys, love you
Speaker 2: who I'm knocking shit over? Jay? I love you, I
Speaker 2: love you, I love you, guys, Gostard, love it. Don't
Speaker 2: go anywhere. The best word's coming next with Jay.
Speaker 1: All Right, I love you best.
Speaker 2: Bye guys, love you a bye guys, Bye bye bye
Speaker 2: bye guys. I say you at my show.
Speaker 1: I see you, yes, Hi, have the best break. I'll
Speaker 1: see you in a few moments. Back here to meditate,
Speaker 1: to grow, to change, have a great moment. I'll see
Speaker 1: you in the second half. Take care everyone. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it,
Speaker 1: you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort
Speaker 1: is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking
Speaker 1: your hidden potential. If you know you want to be
Speaker 1: more and achieve more this year, go check it out
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 5: You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months,
Speaker 5: and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief.
Speaker 3: There's no sense of meaning and purpose.
Speaker 5: You sort of expected it, and you would have been
Speaker 5: disappointed if it didn't happen.