WEBVTT - Part Three: The Clarence Thomas Story 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:11.600 Uh, this is Behind the Bastards. It's a podcast about Miles. Miles, 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.640 how do you? How do you plan to make all 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.160 of your many crimes? Right? Look, I start by my 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.480 manager said, and my publicist supposed said, go on this podcast. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.120 So thanks so much for having me, Um, And of course, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.520 of course always happen to have a work, you know exactly, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.760 And I think and the first thing what I'm trying 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.960 to do is sort of challenge what our conventional definition 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.200 of what a war crime is, Um, And I think 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.559 that's my task today as a guest on your podcast. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:42.960 Thanks so much for happening. Well, that's fascinating. You know. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.760 I read about your your your rebranding of war crimes 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.800 and that very wife's column, and I just thought, very brave, 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.280 very brave Barry. Actually it's Bari, So my best friend. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.720 He refuses to learn her name. That's a nice way 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.880 you should have. Yeah, respect for one of the America's 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:08.160 greatest journalists since Yeah. Absolutely, she's the Glenn Greenwald of 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.160 Glenn Greenwald's Um. This is the podcast about bad People. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.400 Tell you all about him, Miles. It's part three of 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.640 our of our series Thomas, How you doing? How you doing? 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.880 We took a little breaky for us. Yeah, good, it 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.520 was good to have the break. I kept telling everybody 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.960 I was doing this, and I was like, the first 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.840 two episodes just fucking spooked me out because it's not like, 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.800 look what this guy did. It would just be like, 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.840 look at the incubator where this thing just grew from. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.200 And that was the most horrifying ship of all the 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.760 things we've talked about. This this is again I feel 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.040 like you always I will do yourself with even more 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.960 uncomfortable that. That was the original goal when we came 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.200 up with this podcast. You know, I have been lurking 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.760 outside of your house for a while and I emailed 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.680 Sophie saying I would like to really make Miles uncomfortable 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.760 about twice either over like a five year period. UM, 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.720 and that's turned into a very successful part. You know 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.000 how we know he's lying. He would never put that 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:18.560 in an email. You're right, email exactly. UM. So I 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.880 guess we should probably get back to the tale of 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:26.040 Mr Clarence Thomas. Now, when we left off with um 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.799 with our old friend, he had gotten a job working 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.080 as the Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights and the Department 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.919 of Education, now number one this is a job in 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.160 the Reagan administration. So if you are the Assistant Secretary 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:39.800 for Civil Rights for the d o E and the 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:44.080 Reagan administration, your job is not to help ensure that 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.000 civil rights laws are abided by in schools. Your job 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.840 is to make sure that nothing is done to protect 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.280 civil rights laws in the Department of Education, because the 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.520 Reagan administration fundamentally did not believe it should exist. And 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.480 in fact, Reagan had campaigned talking about how there shouldn't 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.680 be an Apartment of Education. So that said it was 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.000 one of those Like everyone including Clarence, was aware that 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.079 he got the job because since the Reagan administration was 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.760 going to get up to so much fuckory, they wanted 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.480 to have a black dude somewhere near the civil rights 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.800 position in the Department of Education to like make it 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.400 look like they were less racist than they were. Yes, exactly, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.080 and this is exactly the kind of job to his credit, 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.560 I mean credit may not may may not be righting 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.200 to say, but like Thomas had never wanted jobs like this, 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:32.760 right Like in the past, he had always been like, well, no, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.600 I want to do energy. I want to do like 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.200 um oil and gas, environmental stuff. I want to do 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.640 something that like people will not be like, oh, that's 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.040 the job he's got because he's the black lawyer, right. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.400 He wanted to like to push away from work like 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.360 that because I'm Darth Vader, right, yeah, I would, just 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.560 because I'm a bad person. I don't want anyone to 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.840 think that it's because of But this is a job 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.040 that he is getting because he's like a black Republican, right, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.760 which is what he said he didn't want, But it's 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.200 also the kind of thing he can't turn down. This 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.040 this is a presidential appointment, which is like a bread deal. 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.520 And also, like he himself in the last couple of that, 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.440 I think the episode previous you were saying, like he 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.960 saw it was clear to him the opportunity that present 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.720 that was in front of him by being a black conservative. 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.000 Like so in that sense, it's almost like, well, you know, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.120 you know how why you're going to flourish because you're 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.640 taking advantage of all of that. But at the same time, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:23.919 but then we're like, but I don't want to be 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.799 diversity Darth Vader higher, yeah, um, and it's it gets 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.600 more uncomfortable. So it's uncomfortable for him despite the fact 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.200 that this is a thing he can't pass up. It's 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.600 uncomfortable for him. For that reason and because a lot 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.720 of basically all of his coworkers in the Reagan administration 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:43.440 are like the most racist people you can imagine, um, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.920 because it's the Reagan administration. He regularly described his co 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.800 workers to friends as bigots. Mayor and abramson Wright. In 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.200 the book Strange Justice Quote. Aryl H. Bell, who was 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.960 Secretary of Education at the time, recalled in his memoirs 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.000 being shocked at the sick humor and racist cliches voice 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.440 by some reagularppointees, who, for instance, referred to Martin Luther 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:09.920 King Jr. As Martin Lucifer Coon Um, called Arabs sand inwards, 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.320 and described Title four, which prohibits sexual or Title nine, 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.840 which prohibits sexual discrimination, as the lesbian's Bill of rights. 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:23.000 Like not just like you know, guys being like crossing 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.240 like the street or something when they see a black dude, 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.600 guys like dropping hard slurs, the hard ours. Yeah, they're going, 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.320 they're they're letting the clan hood hang all out. And 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.280 I like, and so Mr Clarence Thomas is like, man, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.440 He's like, I couldn't even couldn't even regale them with 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:42.719 my porn recaps because talk to them about pornography there. 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.039 So actually I think he probably can't. He was like, 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.520 could you imagine or what's that conversation like where some 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.760 dudes like, yeah, man, you know the fucking Malcolm X 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.520 and Martin lu. I'm glad they got there's you know 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:53.919 what I mean, because we don't want to, you know what, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.880 the darkies to get any ideas. And Martin and Clarence 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.279 Thomas is like, so I was watching this video of 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.520 three women and cheerleading outfits and you're like, this is 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.839 a conversation and from health waiting room. So the Reagan 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.159 administration models, I think if you were to like have 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.360 a hidden audio recorder in there, it would like any 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.599 given hour of conversation in Reagan's West Wing would be 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:22.520 too explicit for us to run on Spotify, right. We 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.280 we would get in legal trouble. The FCC would be like, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.640 we don't even have jurisdiction here, like we're hopping in 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.240 you gotta stop this, and we do historically we do 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.760 not a lot. So my god, but if Thomas was 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:40.040 uncomfortable at all working alongside you know, not just open racists, 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.320 but like outrageously bigoted people. He was happy working adjacent 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.599 to a man who made a fortune as the mouthpiece 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.400 of literal apartheid South Africa. And I'm gonna quote again 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.279 from the New York Times here quote in nineteen seventy 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.240 seven to seventy eight, when Mr Parker, this is the 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.800 guy we talked about last time, right when Clarence Thomas's 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.919 UH mentors first served as a South African agent, he 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.440 organized the Lincoln Institute for Research and Education, which issued 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.839 the quarterly Lincoln Review. The Institute and Review have consistently 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.400 attacked the African National Congress, sanctions against South Africa, and 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.720 the United States civil rights movements, leadership and ideas. Mr 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.440 Parker and Clarence Thomas served on the Reagan Bush Transition 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.200 team for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, of which Mr 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.800 Thomas became Commissioner in June nineteen two. Since nineteen eighty one, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.880 Mr Thomas has been listed as an editorial advisory board 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.840 member of Mr Parker's Lincoln Review. Mr Keys has been 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.240 a contributing editor. Registration file links under the heading political 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.040 Propaganda show International Public Affairs Consultants held a reception for 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.400 as South African Clients Ambassador. In nineteen eight seven, when 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.000 Pretoria was vigorously fighting sanctions, Mr Thomas, then the e 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:48.480 e o C chairman, was listed as in attendance. So 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.720 you know, getting getting money and and getting like uh 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.520 feedd at fancy dinners and stuff that are funded by 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.560 the fucking South African apartheid government as part of their 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:07.480 plan to build US support for continuous Yeah, he's a 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.760 human rights violation, food washing campaign, party washing campaign. Come 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.880 by check out the junket. Be pretty fun. So while 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.720 Thomas's career flourished, though his personal life and I know 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.280 this is going to really hurt you to hear, because 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.600 he was doing so well wasn't shambles. So his first 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.000 wife leaves him because again she's she's a very traditional 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.680 like person in terms of her view of like men 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.640 and women and like wants to be kind of the 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:39.800 homemaker mom wife. But also she's a very very committed Democrat, 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.760 and when he starts going a hard right, she looks 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.480 at what's he's putting up with in the Reagan administration 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.120 and it's like, no, this is not okay, this is 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.000 not like a thing that I want to So she 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.760 like she fucking bounces um because she yeah, she it's 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.000 funny how like kind of she was such like a 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.959 lib where she's like, my whole vibe was to marry 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.960 this like other liberal black man. But now that you're 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.520 becoming a conservative black man, this is this is not 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.439 good for my brand either. But I'm sure at the 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.400 same time, you don't want to see someone you marry 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:15.520 suddenly be so like apparently opportunities about how they modify 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.320 their being. And she's marrying a guy. I'm sure he 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.040 was saying the same things to her that he said 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:21.640 to his grandpa, who was like, I want to get 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.520 be a lawyer so that I can get into civil 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.880 rights so I can help the government. And like, you know, 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.600 he'd worked in a Republican administration before, but it had 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.920 been a liberal republican um and now Thomas is like, no, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.400 I want to help the chief google of the far right, 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:40.240 like destroy the civil rights gains of the civil rights movement. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.520 She's like, no, I don't want to be involved with you. Um. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.880 He has custody of the kid, which is which is uh, 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.880 you know, on his part breaking a cycle. So I 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.520 guess there's that um that said whether or not he's 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.160 a good parent is um something that's going to depend 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.680 on your own personal opinions on parenting. Friends say Thomas 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.920 was so enraged at his ex wife um and in 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.240 part by the fact that whenever she had the kid, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.079 he accused her of coddling him um and of encouraging 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.600 a learning disability. So he's that kind of dad where 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.760 he's like by being like this kid clearly as a 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.319 learning disability, and like you're coddling him and you're not 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.600 being hard enough on him and making him work for 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.720 it and all that kind of you know, um, it 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:28.880 works on animals. Yeah, I want work again, given his 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.600 grandpa hard to see him not being exactly right, and 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.800 also like for you to be raised by such like 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.480 a fucking cold you know, like shadowy figure of a grandpa, 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.319 have no like emotional or support or affection, and then 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.680 like you merely just see like a mother and like 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.600 child relationship, like you're coddling the kid. Gotta slap him more, 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.560 gotta make him work without gloves. Honestly, you should see 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.439 what you do. Like I said, you put a two 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.080 pound dumbbells in in front of a shopping cart. You 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:01.960 put him in the seat, and you put it down 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:03.800 a steep hill and just see how he ends up. 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.120 A crash test, just a crash test. That's what you do. Yeah, yeah, myles, 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.080 I'm raising a kid right now. The kid doesn't know it, 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.360 neither do the kids parents. But every day I sneak 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.800 in and I put a lot of what do you 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.000 call it poison oak inside, you know, his clothes for 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.560 the next day. And what's that teaching the kid is 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.080 that life is like a series of blisters, and you 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.440 just got to work through the blisters. You know. Little 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.680 lessons like that really make them stronger. And some say 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.400 it's it's waste, it's wasted because the child is so 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.680 young and not able to process the experience. But what 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.559 you're saying is you said, start him early, start him early, right. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.840 The only thing they will grow up knowing is the 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.880 feeling of constantly being exposed to poison ivy and that 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.880 will make them strong and reject fast fashion. That's what 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:47.800 I tell their parents and the letters that I send 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.320 anonymously anyway, So uh. Once he gets split up with 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.720 his wife, Clarence Thomas engages in the normal divorce guy things. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.800 He gets super into physical fitness right starts getting jacked 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:03.040 you know, all revenge body. Yeah, he gets the revenge body. 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.080 And of course he throws himself into his work, which, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.080 given the fact that he'd always been a career guy, 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:11.000 means he gets like way way more into his job. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.680 And of course, you know you can't just work out 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.520 and work right, Like, that's not it. I know you 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.200 and I Miles are both just incredibly swoll dudes. Um, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:25.360 I mean, but you know you need something else, absolutely absolutely. Look, 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.520 I mean they were saying the SEC is coming after 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.680 me because of these gains. Yeah, just because our pecks 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.800 are literally large enough to host a t ceremony on like, 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.839 doesn't mean that we don't do other things. I mean 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.840 I could, and I'll do it from time to time, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.120 but yeah, every now and then. And and Clarence Thomas. 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.960 In addition to stacking gains and working, you know, he's 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.239 got he's got his his favorite hobby, which is pornography, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.040 which he gets even more disastrously obsessed with. In the 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.240 summer of nineteen eighty two, shortly after he moves into 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.400 his first bachelor pad, he makes friends with a coworker 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.319 named K Savage, which is a pretty cool name. It's 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.200 K with an e um they were both joggers, and 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.640 one day he agreed to take her shopping for running shoes. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.520 So like their work buddies and like they'll go running 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.000 from time to time, and like she's like, my fucking 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.240 my shoes or ship. Well, let's go out this week 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.600 and we'll get some shoes. We'll go in to run. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.240 It'll be fun. So she picks him up from his apartment. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.320 He doesn't have a car at this point. He uses 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.720 like a work vehicle to get to and from the office. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.760 He gets like chauffeurd and stuff. Um, so she has 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:27.720 to come pick him up from his apartment to go shopping. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.760 And that's where this subsequent scene, which is related in 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.319 strange justice comes in. And I'm gonna read you a 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:38.599 quote Miles strap In for this one, buddy. So interior 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.640 shoe store. No no, no, this is when she comes 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.160 to his house. So this is her first time. Ok. Yeah, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.079 this is her first time seeing Clarence in his bachelor pad. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.360 Interior Clarences bachelor pad. Oh god. Yes. He had only 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.120 recently set up housekeeping and the place, as she recalled, 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.400 was still under furnished. There was little more than a 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.880 mattress on the floor and a stereo, but one of 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.000 her feature made a lasting impression on Savage. Thomas had 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.760 compiled and placed on the floor, and this is her 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.440 her speaking now, a huge, compulsively organized stack of Playboy magazines, 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.480 five years worth of them, organized by month and year. 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.400 The walls of the apartment were also memorably covered. There 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.800 was only one main room, but all of its walls, 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:20.880 as well as the walls of the little galley, kitchen, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.760 and even the bathroom door, were papered with center folds 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.560 of large breasted nude women. Savage recalled staring awkwardly about her. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.600 The display seemed so out of character with everything else 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.640 she knew about Thomas. He was a fanatic about discipline 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.480 and a daily churchgoer. He was serious about his career 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.880 and honest to the point of indiscretion about his ambitious 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.080 plans for the future. Thomas had told her, as he 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.080 had told others, that he planned to replace their good 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.480 Marshal on his retirement from the Supreme Court. But his 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.840 evident enthusiasm for pornography suggested to Savage that Thomas had 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.520 a private side that was very different from his public persona. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.000 To her, the contrast seemed if she later put it 0:14:55.160 --> 0:15:02.320 a little crazy dude. His dude has wallpapered his empty 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.200 ass apartment in porn center faults. Which if that is 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.720 your like, if that's your thing, fine, but number one, 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.040 you don't ever let anyone else see that apartment, Like 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.600 you sure don't invite your female co worker over. And 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.400 but you know he thought that would maybe in his mind. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.640 He's like, and that's one. Maybe Ka's cool. That's my 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.640 way of just being completely inappropriate to invite. And also like, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.000 you know, like when in films when there's like a 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.440 character that is a bunch of ship on their walls, 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.000 you know, it's usually some conspiracy theory ship. So just 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.800 because I have some pictures of the child that I'm 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.040 raising distantly on the wall Viles doesn't make me crazy. Yeah, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.200 And also like it's weird that you seem to have 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.800 like a design of the house and cad like if 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.040 you're making a whatever, that's another show. But I think 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.240 when you see that in TV and film usually it's like, 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.480 this is what the inside of this character's head is like, right, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.040 is what you see just plastered on the walls. And 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.880 then to be like clear Tom is existing at a 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.800 steady hum of just porno blasting inside of his skull. Yeah, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.440 that's that's that's exactly. It's a perfect reflection of what 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.200 his thoughts are. And it's nothing but pornography bouncing around 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.360 in there, right, because like none of the legal decisions 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:23.840 makes sense. It's like it's fucking it's fucking wild man um. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.120 And it's also like I'm sure there is because we're 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.119 going to talk about Nita Hill later. Uh he obviously, 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.000 I think there is like a voyeurs. I think he 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.600 gets off on like put women that he works with 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.840 in uncomfortable situations visa v. Pornography. And maybe part of 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.080 how he protects himself is by also talking to porn 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:43.960 to all of his coworkers, or maybe he's kind of 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.800 into doing it to everybody, right, But like this goes 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.080 beyond Look again, nothing wrong with porn. I know a 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.480 lot of people who like porn. I don't know anyone 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.800 who does this, right, Like, nobody does this, no, And 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.960 this is clearly like like to your point, like that, 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.360 this is how he just eviolates people. And that's that's 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.200 the way of doing it, is to be like surprise porn, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.080 don't care what you think is appropriate or not. Like 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.479 I'm this is this? Is it welcome? This is talking 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.639 about it? Or you're surrounded by it? Yeah, if you're 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.280 gonna be around Clarence Thomas, you can't get away from 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.160 the porn, now, K question like all I can think 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.440 of now, Yeah, we'll talk about Jenny a little bit. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.520 There's not going to be as many answers as you're 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.800 hoping for. No, No, I can I can only imagine. 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:32.000 But yeah, sorry, but so so Kay sees this nightmare apartment, which, 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.840 by the way, folks, the correct thing to do when 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.119 you step into your colleagues apartment and see that is 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.240 to leave if you have. If you have a gun, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.560 pull it and keep it on them until you're safely 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.040 clear of the apartment, because that person is probably going 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.840 to murder you. Um, but no, Clarence Thomas tells her. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.600 She like, so, she's obviously your k in the situation. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.920 You have to be gentle about how you question Clarence 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.399 about this because this is clearly an unhinged person. And 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.840 she she does question him a lee and he's like, well, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.119 porn is my only vice and since I don't drink 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.480 or run around like this is fine, right, Like I'm 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.679 not I'm not going out sleeping with people. I'm not 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.480 going out and partying. All I do is enjoy my porn. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.000 What's the problem? Um? And he also told her that 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.359 his magazines were all he had that was worth taking 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.239 from his ruined marriage, which he has joint custody of 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:30.119 the kid. Like, so that's a little messed up. Um wow. Yeah, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.199 Now maybe he was telling the truth about like not 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.240 drinking and partying. That might be true. There are people 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.359 who were with him at the time who claims no, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.000 he was also lying about that. One of them is 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:46.639 his former girlfriend Lillian mckewen. Um. She says that he 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.440 was not honest about the whole not drinking thing. In ninete, 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.080 she went on the Larry King Show um and said 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.520 that when the two had dated in the early nineteen eighties, 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.320 he was quote a raving alcoholic and that when he 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.320 quit drinking he turned into a quote angry, obsessive man 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.160 who bullied his son and I'm gonna quote from CNN here. 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.360 When he gave up alcohol, she said, he became angry, 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.720 short tempered, a sexual, and obsessive with ambition and what 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.720 she called weird things such as long runs in the 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.119 dark before Dawn Mickwen did back up the allegations of 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.920 his weird porn thing, calling it quote something that was 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.800 very important to him and something that he talked about. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.280 So that's weird. That's that's that's that's some stuff about 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.840 about Clarence Thomas that I bet you didn't want to know. Definitely, 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.199 you know everything in moderation, but not for Clarence. And 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.240 it's hard to take someone seriously who's like, yeah, I 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.840 don't that's my only vice. No, Actually, you have a 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:49.720 lot of other vices you have. But right, that's that's 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.919 that's very interesting, very interesting. Yeah, and again behavior obviously 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:55.960 in terms of like what you should take with a 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.280 grain of salt. She is like going on the Larry 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.600 King Live Show and talking on my TV about this, 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.720 so you know, maybe maybe she's not entirely coming at 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.360 this from an honest point of view. I don't know whatever, 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.320 or she's like, well, who else can I tell about 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.440 this maniac who might become a Supreme Court justice? I 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.240 don't know what you do if you're in her situation 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.919 and you have that experience. What she's saying doesn't sound 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.399 separate from the person that many many co workers have 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:25.120 talked about. At the very least, there are many inconsistent 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.640 descriptions of this. Yes, in May of nineteen eight one, 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.280 Clarence Thomas was nominated by the Senate to take the 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.600 position as chairman of the e e o C, his 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.440 old stomping grounds. He was confirmed a few months later, 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.760 and he held that position from nineteen eighty two to 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.120 nineteen ninety. So this is the primary thing he does 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.359 in his entire career prior to becoming a Supreme Court justice. 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:47.879 This is the longest stretch of employment in a single 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.159 job that he has in his career prior to like 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.760 getting on the court. Um. So, while this is happening, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.639 while while he is being the chairman of the e 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.960 o C, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, thing of a jigger, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.919 Well that's going on. A doddering old man named Ronald 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.880 Reagan decided it was time to nominate a new justice 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.600 to the Supreme Court. Due to Reagan's eight years of 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.639 executive domination and the fact that it looked like George H. W. 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.520 Bush was about to basically be Reagan term number three. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.480 Progressives and liberals alike, we're worried that the Supreme Court 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:19.679