WEBVTT - The Circus of Murder 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.760 Since Moscow police began investigating the brutal murders of four 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.680 University of Idaho students at an off campus home on 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.360 November thirteen, they have claimed it was a targeted attack. 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.240 The Leyta County Prosecutor doubled down on those claims, saying 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.120 investigators believe one of the victims was the intended target. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:34.680 This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KT Studios 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:43.080 and iHeartRadio, episode eight The Circus of Murder Courtney Armstrong, 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.840 a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.599 and Connor Powell, as the mystery of the brutal murderers 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:57.640 of Keille Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan shape 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.960 and unfolded. The national spotlight on the case grew brighter 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.360 when Brian Coburger was arrested at his parents' home on 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:13.000 December thirtieth. That public spotlight intensified. The newspaper headlines and 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:20.120 breaking news alerts for the criminologists turned killer practically wrote themselves. Reporters, 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.640 TV anchors, crime writers and legal analysts poured over the 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.600 probable cause Affidavid, laying out the case against Coburger. As 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.800 they flocked to Pennsylvania and then Idaho to cover his extradition, hearing, 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.160 and first court appearance in Moscow. The worldwide appetite for 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.919 information about the investigations seemed impossible to satisfy. But before 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.120 Coburger even arrived in Idaho, Latta County Judge Megan Marshall 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.360 issued a non dissemination order. The move barred attorneys, law 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:53.680 enforcement officials, and anyone associated with the investigation from talking 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.880 about the case. Judge Marshall defended the sweeping decree, saying 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.640 the gag order was needed to protect Brian Coburger's right 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.440 to a fair trial. Two weeks later, Judge Marshall expanded 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.120 the gag order to include the families and lawyers for 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:11.560 the victims from speaking publicly. Journalists were furious, and more 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.280 than twenty media organizations challenged the restrictions. So too did 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.080 the lawyer for Kley Gonsalvas's family. Attorney Shannon Gray, argued 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.920 the gag order violated the family's right to free speech 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.920 and silence the victim's family's voice while those closest to 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.320 the investigation were barred from talking about the case. Public 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:36.640 demand for information only intensified. Curious spectators and wannabe detectives 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.760 on social media became obsessed with the case, and Brian 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.560 Coburger tours passed. The home on King Rhode in Moscow 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.400 became a regular occurrence. Chat forums on websites like Reddit 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.639 exploded and its online community both fervently followed the investigation 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.400 and at times inserted itself into the story, sifting through 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.200 the facts, speculation, and rumors of the investigation. While the 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.800 gag order prevents leaks and has kept the pre trial 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.320 hearings orderly, a circus has developed outside of the courtroom 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.079 on social media and chatforms like Reddit. From a distance, 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.359 the circus seems harmless, but for any involved in trying 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.360 the case, the fear is the circus could seriously impact 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.280 the prosecution and trial of Brian Coberger. 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.600 I was actually late to finding out the story. I 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.160 think it was on Thanksgiving. My cousins were actually all 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.920 talking about it at Thanksgiving table, and I had no 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.120 idea that this aid honestly occurred. 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.160 By day. This anonymous redditor works in a New York 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:36.080 City office. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:38.960 I started looking into it just on my own through 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.960 news articles, and then my cousin actually suggested I look 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.600 on Reddit if I want to find the real deal. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.360 But by night he's part of the hundreds of thousands 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.960 of people who flocked to sites like Reddit to sift 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.240 through the latest information in the University of Idaho murders 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.040 and debate the many aspects of the Brian Coberger investigation. 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.120 And I actually had never used Reddit, I even know 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.080 how to use it, how to find communities, posts, etc. 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:10.520 And then she showed me one community, and then I 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.600 just got immediately sucked in and went so deep into 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.520 every crevice of every theory at that time and now 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:18.719 can't get enough. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.440 In the immediate days and weeks following the gruesome murders, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.320 the number of discussion groups on websites like Reddit and 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:33.600 Facebook exploded. With no name suspects in the murder investigation, 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.560 internet sleuths began pouring over the few details of the case. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:43.320 As we previously discussed, some Internet users incorrectly identified innocent 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.280 people and charged them on social media with crimes they 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.680 were innocent enough. Others tried to find links between the 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.800 few people randomly caught up in the tragic events, such 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.800 as the food truck employees and the door dash driver 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.560 who delivered late night snacks to Xana Kernodle. Even the 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.640 personal lives of the victims' families became fodder for the 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:07.359 chat forums. When Xana Kernodle's mother, Kara, was detained on 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.360 November nineteenth on drug related charges, many on the Internet 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.560 tried to link her to the murders. Here's the anonymous 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.480 Reddit user speaking with producer Jeff Shane. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.600 People are invested in the story. They wanted to go longer, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.279 and like, I can't help but like read some of 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.800 these comments and like see some justification in it. It's 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.400 kind of like the saying where there's smokeler's fire, and 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.440 so everyone kind of latches onto everything. So whether it's 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.599 that Uber driver that talked about the house to someone 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.560 that combined with the fact that a couple of their 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.520 parents were drug addicts or were arrested on drug charges, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.400 that maybe some of them seemed on drugs and police 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.120 videos when they were when police had to show up 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.400 for noise complaints, and so then you strain all these 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.160 individual things together. But then the fact that Brian as 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.000 an ext drug addict, So then I don't know, like 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.000 it's hard to make sense of all of that, and 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.040 everything kind of seems like a coincidence one way or 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.719 the other, that maybe Brian was maybe it was drugs. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.120 Maybe Brian was involved because it was involving drugs, that's 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.640 one way to make the connection. Or maybe because it 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.760 was drugs and serious drugs and their parents that this 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.720 is like a cartel and the kids had to pay 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.159 for something the parents did. I mean, you could just 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.000 go so crazy, but still kind of plausible. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.800 I'm curious what your answer is, why this case, Why 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.560 do you think you're so invested in it? 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.919 You know, it's really interestingly, I don't know. My first 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.679 thought about why I was interested in it is because 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.880 it feels like it could happen to anyone in a 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.039 college town like that when you hear on reddite people 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.720 being like, oh, it's a huge party house. Oh they 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.560 didn't lock the door. Okay, but we didn't lock the 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.880 door either, And there were strangers in all the time, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.120 you know, eight and out. You didn't know who anyone 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.360 could be, if they were supposed to be there, if 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.320 they weren't, And so I think part of it is 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.880 around the fact that it could just happen to anyone. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.480 When Brian Kolberger then an unknown twenty eight year old 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.880 criminology student, was arrested on December thirtieth, nearly seven weeks 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.400 after the murders. The chat forums responded with a flurry 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.080 of reactions. 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.240 When they made the arrest of Brian end of December. 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.160 It's kind of like the Reddit community was kind of 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.560 like pissed, not whether or not at that time it 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.040 was him or not, but that kind of their rogue 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:54.840 investigation was over. So the boards went quiet for a 0:07:54.880 --> 0:08:00.120 while right after New Year's and then I think think 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.880 it was when the aff and David came out, when 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.080 the list of items that they seized or his house 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.080 came out. Then it reignited. Everyone kind of lit a 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:14.400 fire into everyone's ass to challenge some more concrete information 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.400 about him. 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.360 Here's Jeff and Stephanie. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.400 Since Coburger's arrest, sites like Reddit and TikTok have poured 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.080 over every detail of his life and his possible connection 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:26.760 to the victims. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.840 And after Kaylee's father suggested that there may in fact 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.840 have been a connection between Coburger and his daughter, many 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:39.560 people online speculated that Coburger was literally stalking Kaylee and 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.559 that maybe that was the motive for the murder. 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.160 Yeah stuff. One poster speculated that Kaylee or Madison met 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.400 Coburger at the Mad Greek, the restaurant they worked at downtown, saying, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.560 didn't Kaylee and Madison work at a vegan restaurant? Isn't 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.000 he vegan? And for the record, we've said in the 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.600 past Mad Greek, where they worked, is a pizza shop, 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.400 not a vegan restaurant, and the owner has public said 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.880 there is no record of Coburger ever eating there, but 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:04.760 that has not stopped the online rumor mill. 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:10.000 Others also continued the debate about Coburger's possible motive, saying 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.560 that Ethan and Keiyley were just in the wrong place 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.800 at the wrong time, and that maybe Madison and Xana 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.440 were the real targets since Coburger actually went to their bedroom. Again, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.920 so much of this is just speculation. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.119 But through all these posts, one thing is clear. Uninformed 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.239 theories become facts, and misinformation spreads like wildfire. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.640 Everyone becomes a lawyer. You don't have to prove that 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.880 he's innocent, you just have to prove that he's not guilty. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.960 And so with that mentality, everyone is just looking for 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.080 every single hole that they can anywhere, whether it's cell 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:52.280 phone tower pings that put him put him there thirteen times, 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.840 but kind of cell phone tower ping from twenty five 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.319 miles away, which would still put him where he was 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.679 at home. When the police put up the original request 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.080 or the identification of the Hyundai, they said it was 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.440 like twenty ten or to a twenty thirteen model. Then 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.960 why all of a sudden did they figure out it 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.840 was a twenty fifteen model and it was actually Brian's 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.679 And how can an expert get this twenty ten to 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.360 twenty thirteen classification wrong? Then there's another thing that they're 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:28.319 poking holes in around the sheath, And like the touch DNA, 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:33.720 it went to a lab in Idaho first and nothing 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.920 was found apparently, and then it was transferred to a 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.920 lab in Texas. That's where they found the touch DNA 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.280 that matched Brian's. And whether or not that's just because 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.079 it's a better lab, or did police tamper with it 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.959 during transit frame Brian doing that. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.480 I've never read that that even the sheaf got transferred. 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:58.840 Is that officially true? 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.679 Or so? That's think with this whole Reddit thing is 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.560 when you read seventy theories about something and you can 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.720 find yourself believing every single one. You can't. I can't 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.040 keep track of honestly, what is real and what is not, 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:18.120 and what's confirmed or not. It just all gets jumbled in. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.640 So then if you have a bunch of potentially true facts, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.079 and you can string them together in any any coordinated effort, 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:28.840 you can make yourself believe anything. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.320 It doesn't really matter what's true or not true. It 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.360 just matters if you get the most up votes. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.560 I guess, yeah, yeah, seriously, if you get the most 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.400 up votes, or if it's the most sensational of all 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.160 the facts that I read that day, I'll remember that fact, 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.080 and then when I read a new fact, I'll compare 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.520 it to that, and I can string them together and 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.200 make myself believe Brian's wrongly being held right now. 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.680 What do you think happened? He did it, but why 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:58.200 and what are the circumstances. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.520 I think he was obsessed with one of them. I 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.679 don't know which one it was, Whether it's Maddie or Kaylee, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.640 I don't know. I think it is a lot simpler, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.120 which I think is also why people are trying to 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.200 grasp for straws with all these other firefetch theories. I 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.079 think it was obsessed with one of them. I kind 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.480 of believe maybe one of them at a restaurant they 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.600 were working at, and then stalk them. And then I 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.440 don't know what the motive would be that night, because 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.080 then it gets weird with all the other people in 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.040 the house. The one thing I will say, just what 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.800 I keep saying, I think it's simple, But then I'm like, 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.240 with all those people in the house, how could one 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.280 person have done it? And then like, was he maybe. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.280 Just a getaway car? 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.200 But do you see how I'm spirally from something very 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.719 simple I just believed, And I can't stay on that 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.199 very simple fact because then it does just get complicated. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.160 When everything first happened, everyone was obsessed with this door dash. 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:59.040 Now then we got the victim, then had Brian as 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.160 the potent, and now everyone's gotten so far down so 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.040 many rabbit holes. Why have we forgotten about this door 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.760 dash man? And like it hasn't been a topic of 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.120 conversation when it feels like if he was there four 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.240 minutes or seven minutes before everything started, that seems really 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:18.680 like tight timing. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.360 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:35.199 a moment. This far reaching and endless public debate where 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.040 information is twisted and distorted is one of the main 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.920 reasons Lada County Judge Megan Marshall initially instituted and expanded 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.840 the gag order surrounding the case. Both Coburger's attorneys and 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.319 the prosecution support the gag order to protect Coburger's right 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.800 to a fair trial. Six months after Coburger's arrest, the 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.920 court's hurt emotion in June by a coalition of media 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.840 organizations to lift the gag order. 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.160 The media coalition was fighting for the non dissemination order 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.120 to be altered in an effort to be able to 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.000 report more of the facts of this case. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.480 Wendy Olsen, an attorney representing journalists, argued the gag order 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.080 leads to rampant speculation and removing it would improve the 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.280 coverage of the case, adding that there were other tools 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.960 the legal system could use to protect a defendant's right 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.840 to a fair trial. This includes moving the trial to 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.680 a different city or asking potential jurors if they are 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.520 willing to be impartially in the case. The judge dismissed 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:35.560 those ideas complicated, time consuming, and costly. Shannon Gray, an 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.920 attorney for the Gonsalvest family also pushed the judge to 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.640 lift the restrictions, saying he should be able to speak 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.440 for Keiley's family. The judge, however, seemed unlikely to ease 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:50.080 the restrictions during the six hour hearing. The media coalition 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.760 also requested that cameras be allowed in the courtroom for 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.320 the trial, and argued that media coverage and publicity in 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:01.000 and of itself is not prejudicial. However, Cobacker's attorneys pushed 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.440 back on the request, saying that past descriptions of Coburger 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.840 published in print as quote cold and like a demon, 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.160 and video clips of him blankly staring forward in court 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:16.640 could prejudice potential jurors against Coburger. Leida County Judge Joe 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.400 Judge said he would think about the motions and would 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:24.000 issue a written order in the days to come. Gag orders, 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.280 while rare, are often used in high profile cases, like 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:31.040 in the Half Bay Moon murder investigation and the jodiariastrial, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.160 or any case where the national spotlight burns bright. 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.680 The personal investment is interesting. I mean I even see 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.200 it on comment boards and stuff like that. People are 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.960 so interested. We had this interest in it from the 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.720 start before Brian Kolberger's name is associated with the case 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:53.280 right because it was this killing in a small town 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.320 for college students at the precipice of beginning their lives, 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.600 and that in and of itself, we've created drama around 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.480 the case before mister Kulberker's name came into it. 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.920 Kirk Nurmi was Jodiarius his defense lawyer. In twenty thirteen, 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.800 she was tried and convicted of murdering her ex boyfriend 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.880 Travis Alexander. Her trial remains a cautionary tale of what 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.800 can go wrong when a circus like atmosphere is allowed 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:23.480 to develop around a high profile trial. Cheers erupted as. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:28.200 Soon as look back. Now we're at the ten year 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.440 anniversary of the area's verdict, and you know, you can 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.400 see pictures of people crowding the sidewalk between the court 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.880 buildings just to be there for the verdict. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.880 History is full of high profile murder investigations and trials 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.280 that turn into public spectacles. The Jodiaria's trial surpassed almost 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.240 all of them because it was one of the first 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.520 significant social media events of the social media era. At first, 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.200 the case received very little attention outside of Arizona, despite 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.280 the sensational details. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.000 Travis Alexander was found dead in his shower. He was 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.639 shot in the face, stabbed twenty seven times, and his 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.560 throat was slit from ear to ear. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.639 Friends of Travis Alexander found his mutilated body in his 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.960 apartment after he failed to show up to work. It 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.640 was a gruesome murder scene. Among the evidence police recovered 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.760 from the site was a digital camera with sexually explicit 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.119 photos of Arius and Alexander from the day he was murdered. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.280 The final shot was of him bleeding profusely in the bathroom. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.400 Investigators also found a bloody palm print and DNA belonging 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.080 to Jodiarius. Later in the summer, Arius was arrested in 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.920 charge with murder. The first interest in the case only 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.359 appeared when Jodyarius gave a few jailhouse interviews. 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.879 No jury is going to convict me. Why not? 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.320 Because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:56.600 that one. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:57.639 No Jerry will convict me. 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.280 But even the initial interest following Jodi Aarres's declaration of 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.679 innocence on TV was minor compared to the current fascination 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.640 with the University of Idaho murders. 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.800 It's a little different than the Coburger situation, and it 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.480 wasn't quite in the headline the way Colberger was. I mean, 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.960 you think about Coburger the murder, so his name wasn't 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.760 associated with it yet, of course, but those murders in Moscow, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.200 being in a college down when it was a who 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.360 done it certainly caught the attention of the nation before 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.639 any arrests were made. But Coolburgers was right from the 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.440 start when these bodies were found, the manhunt was underware. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.320 The media got onto the man hunt and certainly was 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:44.679 there all throughout his apprehension his arrest. There's a huge 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.399 media presence in this case from the geta. 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.040 Because of this intense public interest. Every minor police announcement 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.560 or court appearance by Coburger is followed, reported on, and 0:18:55.640 --> 0:19:00.560 heavily scrutinized. This interest, however, could potentially impact Cooberg to 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:01.280 a fair trial. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.000 If I were to file a pre trial motion in 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:10.000 the area's trial, I would walk into court and walk 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.040 out like it was John Smith. No one would care. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.920 When Colberger files emotion and they have a court hearing, 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.439 everybody's going to care. And that's the distinctive, and. 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.520 That makes it harder because no one likes to do 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:23.840 their job under a microscope. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.439 No one likes to do their job under a microscope 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.679 because it it just becomes more of a production. It 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.600 alters the court of public opinion. 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.119 Right, this unique and intense interest by the media and 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.000 the public has the potential to alter the jury pool. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.160 Ultimately, all these things are going to be in the headlines, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.080 and they are ultimately going to be things that will 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.960 be of consequence when vordaire happens, when the ultimately begin 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.520 to sit the jury. So, for example, this motion requesting DNA, right, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.320 if I were to followed the similar motion during areas 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.480 a prospected jury would not have known about that. More 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.480 than likely in this case that might not be true. 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:08.240 And so it's not the microscope so much as is 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.800 the publicity and how that will infect a potential jury 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.879 because ultimately, you think about it, think about it, what 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.120 the rubber meets the road a trial, not in all 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.520 these different circumstances, right, the rubber meets the road at trial. 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.919 So when you have publicity engaging from the get go, 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:33.720 from before a suspect is identified, opinions for potential jurors 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:34.520 begin to form. 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.760 It's impossible to fully circumvent those preconceived notions. Is that 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:40.480 what you're saying, right. 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.960 It can be, And it also raises the prospect of 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.840 covert jurors. Let's say somebody decides they know Cobird's being 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.280 framed or they know he's guilty, they could get on 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.399 that panel and dodge their way into a trial, or 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.200 if they wanted to be on the panel in hopes 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.879 of stinking fame. And so that's why I think the 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.520 difference is so huge, Jeff. But if you think about 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.000 the dynamics of where the rubber meets the road, that jury, 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:13.320 that publicity and Coburger began from the discovery of the 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.879 murders makes things qualitatively different. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.080 How did you as a public defender and how do 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.800 you think Coburger's attorneys will combat that? I mean, certainly 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.600 the jury is not supposed to take that into account, 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:26.320 but how can they. 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.239 Not, right, And there's no jury there, So there's this 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.639 massive public and the public to consume the information before 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.479 they ever become jurors or potential jurors. Right, So you know, 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:39.760 there's a lot of things I think that are going 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.400 on at this point in the case of his attorneys, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.640 and because the death penalty is the specter that looms 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.680 over this case. Really, what his attorneys are doing now 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.800 are tasked with not only investigating the case and challenging 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.480 the evidence that the state is bringing forward in their 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.199 effort to convict mister Colberger of murder. They are looking 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:06.000 at investigating his life from conception to the day of 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.119 his rest so they can create a case for mitigation. 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.960 And while this is going on, of course, they have 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.520 to make this do all this, I guess, with the 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.040 specter of the presumption of guilt in the court of 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.439 public opinion and trying to fight against that, trying to 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.120 fight the evidence of the work. 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.960 Because Coburger's case, like Jodiarius Is, involves the potential for 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.639 the death penalty, Coburger's lawyers must work to both build 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.119 a defense and also an argument against the death penalty 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:41.040 if he is convicted. The intense public interest makes defending 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:42.480 Coburger challenging. 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:50.560 Ultimately, they're going to be fighting this presumption of guilt, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:52.600 of course, and they're going to want to do everything 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.359 they can to collect all the evidence. You know, we 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.000 see that they're going after the DNA. They believe the 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.800 DNA might be exploratory means favorable to their clients. So 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.159 they're going to go after those things, and they're going 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:06.959 to go after other things, like in terms of building 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.920 a case for life, They're going to go after school records, 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.520 They're going to go after everything in his past that 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.919 might be help shed some light on if in fact 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.080 he did commit this case, why a jury should grant 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.680 him wife. So there's really two prongs that are going 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.800 on here, and it certainly made much more difficult without 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.600 media spector because anybody that could maybe be helpful to 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:34.119 mister Colberger probably too excited about coming forward because of 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:38.320 that media spector being involved in the case. Because you know, 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.600 a death penalty case is something that automatically goes up 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.680 to the US Supreme Court if a sentence of death 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.800 is imposed, they are going to need to be very 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.439 vigilant in the defense they provide mister Colberger. And that 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.200 is on two fronts, both for life and for confronting 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:58.359 the evidence. Presenting a defense in a case like this, 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:01.840