1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Since Moscow police began investigating the brutal murders of four 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: University of Idaho students at an off campus home on 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: November thirteen, they have claimed it was a targeted attack. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: The Leyta County Prosecutor doubled down on those claims, saying 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: investigators believe one of the victims was the intended target. 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KT Studios 7 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio, episode eight The Circus of Murder Courtney Armstrong, 8 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, 9 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 2: and Connor Powell, as the mystery of the brutal murderers 10 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: of Keille Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan shape 11 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: and unfolded. The national spotlight on the case grew brighter 12 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: when Brian Coburger was arrested at his parents' home on 13 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: December thirtieth. That public spotlight intensified. The newspaper headlines and 14 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: breaking news alerts for the criminologists turned killer practically wrote themselves. Reporters, 15 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: TV anchors, crime writers and legal analysts poured over the 16 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: probable cause Affidavid, laying out the case against Coburger. As 17 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: they flocked to Pennsylvania and then Idaho to cover his extradition, hearing, 18 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: and first court appearance in Moscow. The worldwide appetite for 19 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 2: information about the investigations seemed impossible to satisfy. But before 20 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: Coburger even arrived in Idaho, Latta County Judge Megan Marshall 21 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: issued a non dissemination order. The move barred attorneys, law 22 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: enforcement officials, and anyone associated with the investigation from talking 23 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: about the case. Judge Marshall defended the sweeping decree, saying 24 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: the gag order was needed to protect Brian Coburger's right 25 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: to a fair trial. Two weeks later, Judge Marshall expanded 26 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: the gag order to include the families and lawyers for 27 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: the victims from speaking publicly. Journalists were furious, and more 28 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: than twenty media organizations challenged the restrictions. So too did 29 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: the lawyer for Kley Gonsalvas's family. Attorney Shannon Gray, argued 30 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: the gag order violated the family's right to free speech 31 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: and silence the victim's family's voice while those closest to 32 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: the investigation were barred from talking about the case. Public 33 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 2: demand for information only intensified. Curious spectators and wannabe detectives 34 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: on social media became obsessed with the case, and Brian 35 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: Coburger tours passed. The home on King Rhode in Moscow 36 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: became a regular occurrence. Chat forums on websites like Reddit 37 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: exploded and its online community both fervently followed the investigation 38 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: and at times inserted itself into the story, sifting through 39 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: the facts, speculation, and rumors of the investigation. While the 40 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: gag order prevents leaks and has kept the pre trial 41 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: hearings orderly, a circus has developed outside of the courtroom 42 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: on social media and chatforms like Reddit. From a distance, 43 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: the circus seems harmless, but for any involved in trying 44 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 2: the case, the fear is the circus could seriously impact 45 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: the prosecution and trial of Brian Coberger. 46 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: I was actually late to finding out the story. I 47 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: think it was on Thanksgiving. My cousins were actually all 48 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 3: talking about it at Thanksgiving table, and I had no 49 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: idea that this aid honestly occurred. 50 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: By day. This anonymous redditor works in a New York 51 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: City office. 52 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: I started looking into it just on my own through 53 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 3: news articles, and then my cousin actually suggested I look 54 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 3: on Reddit if I want to find the real deal. 55 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: But by night he's part of the hundreds of thousands 56 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: of people who flocked to sites like Reddit to sift 57 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: through the latest information in the University of Idaho murders 58 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: and debate the many aspects of the Brian Coberger investigation. 59 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 3: And I actually had never used Reddit, I even know 60 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 3: how to use it, how to find communities, posts, etc. 61 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: And then she showed me one community, and then I 62 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 3: just got immediately sucked in and went so deep into 63 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 3: every crevice of every theory at that time and now 64 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 3: can't get enough. 65 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: In the immediate days and weeks following the gruesome murders, 66 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: the number of discussion groups on websites like Reddit and 67 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: Facebook exploded. With no name suspects in the murder investigation, 68 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: internet sleuths began pouring over the few details of the case. 69 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: As we previously discussed, some Internet users incorrectly identified innocent 70 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: people and charged them on social media with crimes they 71 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: were innocent enough. Others tried to find links between the 72 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: few people randomly caught up in the tragic events, such 73 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 2: as the food truck employees and the door dash driver 74 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: who delivered late night snacks to Xana Kernodle. Even the 75 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: personal lives of the victims' families became fodder for the 76 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 2: chat forums. When Xana Kernodle's mother, Kara, was detained on 77 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: November nineteenth on drug related charges, many on the Internet 78 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: tried to link her to the murders. Here's the anonymous 79 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: Reddit user speaking with producer Jeff Shane. 80 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 3: People are invested in the story. They wanted to go longer, 81 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 3: and like, I can't help but like read some of 82 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: these comments and like see some justification in it. It's 83 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: kind of like the saying where there's smokeler's fire, and 84 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: so everyone kind of latches onto everything. So whether it's 85 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 3: that Uber driver that talked about the house to someone 86 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: that combined with the fact that a couple of their 87 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: parents were drug addicts or were arrested on drug charges, 88 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: that maybe some of them seemed on drugs and police 89 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 3: videos when they were when police had to show up 90 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 3: for noise complaints, and so then you strain all these 91 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 3: individual things together. But then the fact that Brian as 92 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: an ext drug addict, So then I don't know, like 93 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: it's hard to make sense of all of that, and 94 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 3: everything kind of seems like a coincidence one way or 95 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 3: the other, that maybe Brian was maybe it was drugs. 96 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: Maybe Brian was involved because it was involving drugs, that's 97 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: one way to make the connection. Or maybe because it 98 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: was drugs and serious drugs and their parents that this 99 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 3: is like a cartel and the kids had to pay 100 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 3: for something the parents did. I mean, you could just 101 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: go so crazy, but still kind of plausible. 102 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 4: I'm curious what your answer is, why this case, Why 103 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 4: do you think you're so invested in it? 104 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 3: You know, it's really interestingly, I don't know. My first 105 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,679 Speaker 3: thought about why I was interested in it is because 106 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: it feels like it could happen to anyone in a 107 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 3: college town like that when you hear on reddite people 108 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 3: being like, oh, it's a huge party house. Oh they 109 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: didn't lock the door. Okay, but we didn't lock the 110 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: door either, And there were strangers in all the time, 111 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: you know, eight and out. You didn't know who anyone 112 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: could be, if they were supposed to be there, if 113 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: they weren't, And so I think part of it is 114 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: around the fact that it could just happen to anyone. 115 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: When Brian Kolberger then an unknown twenty eight year old 116 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: criminology student, was arrested on December thirtieth, nearly seven weeks 117 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: after the murders. The chat forums responded with a flurry 118 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: of reactions. 119 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: When they made the arrest of Brian end of December. 120 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: It's kind of like the Reddit community was kind of 121 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 3: like pissed, not whether or not at that time it 122 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: was him or not, but that kind of their rogue 123 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 3: investigation was over. So the boards went quiet for a 124 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 3: while right after New Year's and then I think think 125 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: it was when the aff and David came out, when 126 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: the list of items that they seized or his house 127 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: came out. Then it reignited. Everyone kind of lit a 128 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: fire into everyone's ass to challenge some more concrete information 129 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: about him. 130 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: Here's Jeff and Stephanie. 131 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 4: Since Coburger's arrest, sites like Reddit and TikTok have poured 132 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 4: over every detail of his life and his possible connection 133 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 4: to the victims. 134 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 5: And after Kaylee's father suggested that there may in fact 135 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 5: have been a connection between Coburger and his daughter, many 136 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 5: people online speculated that Coburger was literally stalking Kaylee and 137 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 5: that maybe that was the motive for the murder. 138 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: Yeah stuff. One poster speculated that Kaylee or Madison met 139 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 4: Coburger at the Mad Greek, the restaurant they worked at downtown, saying, 140 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 4: didn't Kaylee and Madison work at a vegan restaurant? Isn't 141 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: he vegan? And for the record, we've said in the 142 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 4: past Mad Greek, where they worked, is a pizza shop, 143 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 4: not a vegan restaurant, and the owner has public said 144 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 4: there is no record of Coburger ever eating there, but 145 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 4: that has not stopped the online rumor mill. 146 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 5: Others also continued the debate about Coburger's possible motive, saying 147 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 5: that Ethan and Keiyley were just in the wrong place 148 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 5: at the wrong time, and that maybe Madison and Xana 149 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 5: were the real targets since Coburger actually went to their bedroom. Again, 150 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 5: so much of this is just speculation. 151 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,119 Speaker 4: But through all these posts, one thing is clear. Uninformed 152 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,239 Speaker 4: theories become facts, and misinformation spreads like wildfire. 153 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: Everyone becomes a lawyer. You don't have to prove that 154 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 3: he's innocent, you just have to prove that he's not guilty. 155 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 3: And so with that mentality, everyone is just looking for 156 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 3: every single hole that they can anywhere, whether it's cell 157 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: phone tower pings that put him put him there thirteen times, 158 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: but kind of cell phone tower ping from twenty five 159 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 3: miles away, which would still put him where he was 160 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 3: at home. When the police put up the original request 161 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: or the identification of the Hyundai, they said it was 162 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 3: like twenty ten or to a twenty thirteen model. Then 163 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 3: why all of a sudden did they figure out it 164 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: was a twenty fifteen model and it was actually Brian's 165 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 3: And how can an expert get this twenty ten to 166 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: twenty thirteen classification wrong? Then there's another thing that they're 167 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 3: poking holes in around the sheath, And like the touch DNA, 168 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 3: it went to a lab in Idaho first and nothing 169 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 3: was found apparently, and then it was transferred to a 170 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 3: lab in Texas. That's where they found the touch DNA 171 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: that matched Brian's. And whether or not that's just because 172 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 3: it's a better lab, or did police tamper with it 173 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 3: during transit frame Brian doing that. 174 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 4: I've never read that that even the sheaf got transferred. 175 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 4: Is that officially true? 176 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 3: Or so? That's think with this whole Reddit thing is 177 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 3: when you read seventy theories about something and you can 178 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: find yourself believing every single one. You can't. I can't 179 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: keep track of honestly, what is real and what is not, 180 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: and what's confirmed or not. It just all gets jumbled in. 181 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: So then if you have a bunch of potentially true facts, 182 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 3: and you can string them together in any any coordinated effort, 183 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: you can make yourself believe anything. 184 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 4: It doesn't really matter what's true or not true. It 185 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 4: just matters if you get the most up votes. 186 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, yeah, seriously, if you get the most 187 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 3: up votes, or if it's the most sensational of all 188 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 3: the facts that I read that day, I'll remember that fact, 189 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 3: and then when I read a new fact, I'll compare 190 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: it to that, and I can string them together and 191 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 3: make myself believe Brian's wrongly being held right now. 192 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 4: What do you think happened? He did it, but why 193 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 4: and what are the circumstances. 194 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: I think he was obsessed with one of them. I 195 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: don't know which one it was, Whether it's Maddie or Kaylee, 196 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it is a lot simpler, 197 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 3: which I think is also why people are trying to 198 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 3: grasp for straws with all these other firefetch theories. I 199 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: think it was obsessed with one of them. I kind 200 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 3: of believe maybe one of them at a restaurant they 201 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: were working at, and then stalk them. And then I 202 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 3: don't know what the motive would be that night, because 203 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 3: then it gets weird with all the other people in 204 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: the house. The one thing I will say, just what 205 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 3: I keep saying, I think it's simple, But then I'm like, 206 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: with all those people in the house, how could one 207 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 3: person have done it? And then like, was he maybe. 208 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 4: Just a getaway car? 209 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 3: But do you see how I'm spirally from something very 210 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 3: simple I just believed, And I can't stay on that 211 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: very simple fact because then it does just get complicated. 212 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: When everything first happened, everyone was obsessed with this door dash. 213 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 3: Now then we got the victim, then had Brian as 214 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: the potent, and now everyone's gotten so far down so 215 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 3: many rabbit holes. Why have we forgotten about this door 216 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: dash man? And like it hasn't been a topic of 217 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: conversation when it feels like if he was there four 218 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: minutes or seven minutes before everything started, that seems really 219 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 3: like tight timing. 220 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 221 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 2: a moment. This far reaching and endless public debate where 222 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: information is twisted and distorted is one of the main 223 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: reasons Lada County Judge Megan Marshall initially instituted and expanded 224 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: the gag order surrounding the case. Both Coburger's attorneys and 225 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 2: the prosecution support the gag order to protect Coburger's right 226 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: to a fair trial. Six months after Coburger's arrest, the 227 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: court's hurt emotion in June by a coalition of media 228 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: organizations to lift the gag order. 229 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: The media coalition was fighting for the non dissemination order 230 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: to be altered in an effort to be able to 231 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: report more of the facts of this case. 232 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: Wendy Olsen, an attorney representing journalists, argued the gag order 233 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: leads to rampant speculation and removing it would improve the 234 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: coverage of the case, adding that there were other tools 235 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: the legal system could use to protect a defendant's right 236 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: to a fair trial. This includes moving the trial to 237 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: a different city or asking potential jurors if they are 238 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: willing to be impartially in the case. The judge dismissed 239 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: those ideas complicated, time consuming, and costly. Shannon Gray, an 240 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: attorney for the Gonsalvest family also pushed the judge to 241 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: lift the restrictions, saying he should be able to speak 242 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: for Keiley's family. The judge, however, seemed unlikely to ease 243 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: the restrictions during the six hour hearing. The media coalition 244 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: also requested that cameras be allowed in the courtroom for 245 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: the trial, and argued that media coverage and publicity in 246 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: and of itself is not prejudicial. However, Cobacker's attorneys pushed 247 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: back on the request, saying that past descriptions of Coburger 248 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: published in print as quote cold and like a demon, 249 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: and video clips of him blankly staring forward in court 250 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: could prejudice potential jurors against Coburger. Leida County Judge Joe 251 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 2: Judge said he would think about the motions and would 252 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 2: issue a written order in the days to come. Gag orders, 253 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: while rare, are often used in high profile cases, like 254 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: in the Half Bay Moon murder investigation and the jodiariastrial, 255 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: or any case where the national spotlight burns bright. 256 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 6: The personal investment is interesting. I mean I even see 257 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 6: it on comment boards and stuff like that. People are 258 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 6: so interested. We had this interest in it from the 259 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 6: start before Brian Kolberger's name is associated with the case 260 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 6: right because it was this killing in a small town 261 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 6: for college students at the precipice of beginning their lives, 262 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 6: and that in and of itself, we've created drama around 263 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 6: the case before mister Kulberker's name came into it. 264 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: Kirk Nurmi was Jodiarius his defense lawyer. In twenty thirteen, 265 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 2: she was tried and convicted of murdering her ex boyfriend 266 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: Travis Alexander. Her trial remains a cautionary tale of what 267 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: can go wrong when a circus like atmosphere is allowed 268 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: to develop around a high profile trial. Cheers erupted as. 269 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 6: Soon as look back. Now we're at the ten year 270 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 6: anniversary of the area's verdict, and you know, you can 271 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 6: see pictures of people crowding the sidewalk between the court 272 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 6: buildings just to be there for the verdict. 273 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: History is full of high profile murder investigations and trials 274 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 2: that turn into public spectacles. The Jodiaria's trial surpassed almost 275 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: all of them because it was one of the first 276 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: significant social media events of the social media era. At first, 277 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: the case received very little attention outside of Arizona, despite 278 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: the sensational details. 279 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: Travis Alexander was found dead in his shower. He was 280 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: shot in the face, stabbed twenty seven times, and his 281 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: throat was slit from ear to ear. 282 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 2: Friends of Travis Alexander found his mutilated body in his 283 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: apartment after he failed to show up to work. It 284 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: was a gruesome murder scene. Among the evidence police recovered 285 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: from the site was a digital camera with sexually explicit 286 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: photos of Arius and Alexander from the day he was murdered. 287 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: The final shot was of him bleeding profusely in the bathroom. 288 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 2: Investigators also found a bloody palm print and DNA belonging 289 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: to Jodiarius. Later in the summer, Arius was arrested in 290 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: charge with murder. The first interest in the case only 291 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: appeared when Jodyarius gave a few jailhouse interviews. 292 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 7: No jury is going to convict me. Why not? 293 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 4: Because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on 294 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 4: that one. 295 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 5: No Jerry will convict me. 296 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: But even the initial interest following Jodi Aarres's declaration of 297 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: innocence on TV was minor compared to the current fascination 298 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 2: with the University of Idaho murders. 299 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 6: It's a little different than the Coburger situation, and it 300 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 6: wasn't quite in the headline the way Colberger was. I mean, 301 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 6: you think about Coburger the murder, so his name wasn't 302 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 6: associated with it yet, of course, but those murders in Moscow, 303 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 6: being in a college down when it was a who 304 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 6: done it certainly caught the attention of the nation before 305 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 6: any arrests were made. But Coolburgers was right from the 306 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 6: start when these bodies were found, the manhunt was underware. 307 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 6: The media got onto the man hunt and certainly was 308 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 6: there all throughout his apprehension his arrest. There's a huge 309 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 6: media presence in this case from the geta. 310 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: Because of this intense public interest. Every minor police announcement 311 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: or court appearance by Coburger is followed, reported on, and 312 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: heavily scrutinized. This interest, however, could potentially impact Cooberg to 313 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: a fair trial. 314 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 6: If I were to file a pre trial motion in 315 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 6: the area's trial, I would walk into court and walk 316 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 6: out like it was John Smith. No one would care. 317 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 6: When Colberger files emotion and they have a court hearing, 318 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 6: everybody's going to care. And that's the distinctive, and. 319 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: That makes it harder because no one likes to do 320 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: their job under a microscope. 321 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 6: No one likes to do their job under a microscope 322 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 6: because it it just becomes more of a production. It 323 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 6: alters the court of public opinion. 324 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: Right, this unique and intense interest by the media and 325 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: the public has the potential to alter the jury pool. 326 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 6: Ultimately, all these things are going to be in the headlines, 327 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 6: and they are ultimately going to be things that will 328 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 6: be of consequence when vordaire happens, when the ultimately begin 329 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 6: to sit the jury. So, for example, this motion requesting DNA, right, 330 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 6: if I were to followed the similar motion during areas 331 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 6: a prospected jury would not have known about that. More 332 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 6: than likely in this case that might not be true. 333 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 6: And so it's not the microscope so much as is 334 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 6: the publicity and how that will infect a potential jury 335 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 6: because ultimately, you think about it, think about it, what 336 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 6: the rubber meets the road a trial, not in all 337 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 6: these different circumstances, right, the rubber meets the road at trial. 338 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 6: So when you have publicity engaging from the get go, 339 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 6: from before a suspect is identified, opinions for potential jurors 340 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 6: begin to form. 341 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 4: It's impossible to fully circumvent those preconceived notions. Is that 342 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 4: what you're saying, right. 343 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 6: It can be, And it also raises the prospect of 344 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 6: covert jurors. Let's say somebody decides they know Cobird's being 345 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 6: framed or they know he's guilty, they could get on 346 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 6: that panel and dodge their way into a trial, or 347 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 6: if they wanted to be on the panel in hopes 348 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 6: of stinking fame. And so that's why I think the 349 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 6: difference is so huge, Jeff. But if you think about 350 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 6: the dynamics of where the rubber meets the road, that jury, 351 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 6: that publicity and Coburger began from the discovery of the 352 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 6: murders makes things qualitatively different. 353 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 4: How did you as a public defender and how do 354 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 4: you think Coburger's attorneys will combat that? I mean, certainly 355 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 4: the jury is not supposed to take that into account, 356 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 4: but how can they. 357 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 6: Not, right, And there's no jury there, So there's this 358 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 6: massive public and the public to consume the information before 359 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 6: they ever become jurors or potential jurors. Right, So you know, 360 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 6: there's a lot of things I think that are going 361 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 6: on at this point in the case of his attorneys, 362 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 6: and because the death penalty is the specter that looms 363 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 6: over this case. Really, what his attorneys are doing now 364 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 6: are tasked with not only investigating the case and challenging 365 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 6: the evidence that the state is bringing forward in their 366 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 6: effort to convict mister Colberger of murder. They are looking 367 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 6: at investigating his life from conception to the day of 368 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 6: his rest so they can create a case for mitigation. 369 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 6: And while this is going on, of course, they have 370 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 6: to make this do all this, I guess, with the 371 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 6: specter of the presumption of guilt in the court of 372 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 6: public opinion and trying to fight against that, trying to 373 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 6: fight the evidence of the work. 374 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: Because Coburger's case, like Jodiarius Is, involves the potential for 375 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 2: the death penalty, Coburger's lawyers must work to both build 376 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 2: a defense and also an argument against the death penalty 377 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: if he is convicted. The intense public interest makes defending 378 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: Coburger challenging. 379 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 6: Ultimately, they're going to be fighting this presumption of guilt, 380 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 6: of course, and they're going to want to do everything 381 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 6: they can to collect all the evidence. You know, we 382 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 6: see that they're going after the DNA. They believe the 383 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 6: DNA might be exploratory means favorable to their clients. So 384 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 6: they're going to go after those things, and they're going 385 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 6: to go after other things, like in terms of building 386 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 6: a case for life, They're going to go after school records, 387 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 6: They're going to go after everything in his past that 388 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 6: might be help shed some light on if in fact 389 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 6: he did commit this case, why a jury should grant 390 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 6: him wife. So there's really two prongs that are going 391 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 6: on here, and it certainly made much more difficult without 392 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 6: media spector because anybody that could maybe be helpful to 393 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 6: mister Colberger probably too excited about coming forward because of 394 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 6: that media spector being involved in the case. Because you know, 395 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 6: a death penalty case is something that automatically goes up 396 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 6: to the US Supreme Court if a sentence of death 397 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 6: is imposed, they are going to need to be very 398 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 6: vigilant in the defense they provide mister Colberger. And that 399 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 6: is on two fronts, both for life and for confronting 400 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 6: the evidence. Presenting a defense in a case like this, 401 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 6: in the death penalty case is not a job for 402 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 6: the timid. I mean, you have to go forward in 403 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 6: the face of all this vitriol against your client and 404 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 6: go forward and seek out that exculpatory information, So they're 405 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 6: going to do that. We've seen that they are, you know, 406 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 6: in terms of the preliminary hearing, they or seeking the 407 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 6: surviving roommates testimony. 408 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 2: By the time Jody Arius went to trial, four years 409 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 2: after murdering Travis Alexander, interest in the case had grown, 410 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 2: but it exploded once the jerry was selected and the 411 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: trial began. 412 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 6: When Jody Arius finally reached trial in twenty thirteen, it 413 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 6: was a case that had been going on for years 414 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 6: and the publicity was comparatively small before the trial. People 415 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 6: tend to think about her trial as being a huge sensation, 416 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 6: and it was, but it wasn't a huge sensation really 417 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 6: until it began. He had given those interviews with ABC, 418 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 6: Inside Editions, et cetera. The Oldburger case is a media 419 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 6: sensation from the start. So ultimately, when they get to 420 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 6: the point is that they are picking the jury, it's 421 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 6: not going to be whether or not they the jury 422 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 6: has heard anything about the case. Of the potential jury 423 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 6: numbers have hurt anything about the case. It's whether they 424 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 6: formed judgments about the case that cannot be altered. There 425 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 6: are people out there now who have heard the case, 426 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 6: have seen what they've seen and believe that he is guilty. 427 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 6: There might be people that believe that he is longly charged. 428 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 6: And what you need to do when you're searching out 429 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 6: a jury to find people that are not formally held 430 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 6: in the belief and is that are open to hearing 431 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 6: the evidence. Because right now, let's say that the evidence 432 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 6: of the public knows is you know, just a scant 433 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 6: portion of what is known to the police, the authilities, 434 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 6: and presumably the defense attorneys. 435 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 4: That's an interesting point that we think we know everything 436 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 4: and we know just probably a fraction, is what you're saying. 437 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say generally speaking, the public probably now 438 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 6: is about ten percent of the actual evidence it's really 439 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 6: going on in the case. 440 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 2: Let's stop here for another break. With so much of 441 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: the information and evidence still yet to be made public, 442 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: the Idaho judicial system is trying to combat what will 443 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: likely be a massive cultural event. 444 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 6: When Colberger goes to trial. It is going to be 445 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 6: a lot like the Area's trial when it became more 446 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 6: popular in the public. Zite, guys, I mean, if cameras 447 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 6: are allowed in the courtroom, obviously we are going to 448 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 6: see every bit of movement in the courtroom. We're going 449 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 6: to see everything that surrounds the trial outside of the trial. 450 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 6: You know, we're going to see packed courtrooms, We're going 451 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 6: to see people standing outside. I think when you, mister 452 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 6: Kolberger did his case reach trial, you're going to see 453 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 6: that kind of mentality, that kind of It becomes a 454 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 6: trial in the courtroom as best as you can, but 455 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 6: it becomes a cultural event as well. 456 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 2: Jodiaris was ultimately convicted of murder and sentenced to life 457 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: in prison, but many legal analysts believe the circus surrounding 458 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: the trial impacted the prosecution's ability to secure the death penalty. 459 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 4: As someone who's been in it and has now removed 460 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 4: from it, is that okay you think? Or is that 461 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 4: an unhealthy interest that we as a society have. 462 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 6: It's hard to say, but I hate to see trials 463 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 6: become sporting events, right, and justice has to prevail more 464 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 6: than more than anything, right, And we just you know, 465 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 6: we see people that offer testimonies under scrutiny, judges under 466 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 6: scrutiny for having done nothing. It becomes closer to public stoning, 467 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 6: doesn't it. When we expose and attack people for their 468 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 6: involvement in these cases. 469 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: Here again, Jeff and. 470 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 4: Stephanie Jody Aaris's trial started on December tenth, twenty twelve, 471 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 4: and in the scheme of things, that was the infancy 472 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 4: stage of social media. Sure, read It and Twitter existed, 473 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 4: but people didn't use them like they do today. 474 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 5: Makes you wonder what the online community would have done 475 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 5: to that case if it happened today. 476 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 4: And of course Jody Arius was found guilty for murder, 477 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: but there really was this pitchfork mentality back then, and 478 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 4: it probably would have been much more intense today. In 479 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. 480 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 2: With so much at stake, including Coburger's right to a 481 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: fair trial, the presiding judge during Coburger's hearings appeared unwilling 482 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: to remove the gag order. However, nearly seven months after 483 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: Coburger was arrested, and in response to the motion to 484 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: ease the gag order, Judge Joe Judge did agree to 485 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: loosen the non dissemination order. 486 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 4: Prosecution and defense attorneys can now speak on some matters 487 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 4: related to the case. 488 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: The families of the four victims are still allowed to 489 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: speak publicly, but their lawyers remain barred from top Reddit, 490 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: along with several other social media websites, has tried to 491 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: clean up some of the most outrageous group chats. The 492 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: subreddit Brian Coberger's Girls, which was known for discussions about 493 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: Coburger's skincare routine and fawning posts about how hot the 494 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 2: twenty eight year old is, was banned for repeatedly violating 495 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: Reddit's code of conduct. Despite this small change, millions of 496 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 2: true grime enthusiasts and would be crime solvers continue to 497 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: dissect and debate every aspect of the murders on social 498 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 2: media and in public forums across the country. More on 499 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: that next time. For more information on the case and 500 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. 501 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: The Idaho Mascer is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, 502 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. 503 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. 504 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 2: The Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio and 505 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 2: Katie's Studios. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, 506 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 507 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 7: I'm Diana. You may know as Body Moving, My Friend 508 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 7: and I John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary 509 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 7: Don't f with Cats. On our new podcast, True Crimes 510 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 7: of John and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills 511 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 7: to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases. 512 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 3: Please say. 513 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 4: Thirty three year old bride Again was shot dead, gunned 514 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 4: down in front of his two year old daughter. 515 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 5: Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted attack. 516 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 3: It appears to be an execution style of assassination. 517 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 7: This is very active, so we have to be careful. 518 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 5: I've heard that there's a house and have some bodies 519 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 5: in the basement. 520 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:53,479 Speaker 6: I knew. 521 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 7: I just knew something was wrong. 522 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one 523 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 3: young girl going missing. 524 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 4: If you know something, heard something, Please it's never too 525 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 4: late to. 526 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 3: Do the right thing. 527 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 7: This is True Crimes with John and Deianna, the production. 528 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 4: Of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Justice is something that takes 529 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 4: different shapes or formed.