WEBVTT - How Jewel Survived Abuse and Betrayal

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<v Speaker 1>Superstar performer Jewel soul Stirring Music is the soundtrack of

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<v Speaker 1>a generation. Her debut album is one of the best

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<v Speaker 1>selling in history and went twelve times platinum. She sung

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<v Speaker 1>at the Super Bowl, the White House, and for the Pope,

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<v Speaker 1>but her path to success was wrought with trauma. Jewel

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<v Speaker 1>grew up in Alaska without running water, was raised by

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<v Speaker 1>a physically abusive father, and abandoned by her mother, all

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<v Speaker 1>before the age of eight. She left home at fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>and was homeless by eighteen. Against all odds, Jewel rose

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<v Speaker 1>to stardom, yet was dealt another devastating blow when she

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<v Speaker 1>discovered her mother stole millions of her hard earned money.

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<v Speaker 1>On this special episode of Navigating Narcissism, the One and Only,

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<v Speaker 1>Jewel reveals the most challenging parts of her healing, the

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<v Speaker 1>revelation that still makes her tear up, and the fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>techniques she's used to help her emotional recovery. From Red

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<v Speaker 1>Table Talk Podcasts and iHeartMedia, I'm Doctor Rominy and this

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<v Speaker 1>is Navigating Narcissism. This podcast should not be used as

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<v Speaker 1>a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are

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<v Speaker 1>advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and or therapy

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<v Speaker 1>from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition,

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<v Speaker 1>mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast. This episode discusses abuse, which may be triggering

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<v Speaker 1>to some people. The views and opinions expressed are solely

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<v Speaker 1>those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and do not represent the opinions of Red Table Talk productions, iHeartMedia,

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<v Speaker 1>or their employees. Jule, I have been following your journey

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<v Speaker 1>for several years. Your experience is the kind that hits

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<v Speaker 1>you like a bolt of lightning and stays with you.

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<v Speaker 1>You have so much to offer the survivor community, so

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining me. I was really

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<v Speaker 1>struck by your unique upbringing. Your family had a long

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<v Speaker 1>history of homesteading in Alaska. You grew up on hundreds

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<v Speaker 1>of acres without running water. Can you give us a

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<v Speaker 1>little insight into your childhood.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's a good and a dark side, I

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<v Speaker 2>think to my family history.

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<v Speaker 3>I was raised on that homestead by my dad. My

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<v Speaker 3>daily life was varied. We did move a lot, but

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<v Speaker 3>a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Of my childhood was on the homestead, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that that exposure to nature. Actually, my dad once said

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<v Speaker 2>we were given the illness and the cure, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's very true. My dad has eight siblings and

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<v Speaker 2>they had such a again amazing childhood but also kind

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<v Speaker 2>of horrific. And I think the reason none of them

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<v Speaker 2>have committed suicide. None of them are drug addicts. And

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<v Speaker 2>don't get me wrong, but it's kind of striking that

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<v Speaker 2>you could have eight kids raised in this environment and

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<v Speaker 2>that none of them went darker. Is I think a

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<v Speaker 2>real testament to the land and how the land, for

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<v Speaker 2>me personally at least, taught me to be human.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about your dad then, because I've had

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<v Speaker 1>the privilege of reading your book. Everyone should read jules book,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, And I know that he experienced abuse

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<v Speaker 1>growing up and then some of that cycle continued to

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<v Speaker 1>a certain degree. Can you talk a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>your father, because it's a complicated story with your dad.

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<v Speaker 2>My father's childhood was psychologically, physically and emotionally abusive. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know that though, of course, growing up, and so

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<v Speaker 2>all I knew was my dad. I know my mom

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<v Speaker 2>left at eight suddenly I was being raised by my father.

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<v Speaker 2>My father went from like a Mormon like classic Mormon

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<v Speaker 2>dad to drinking, smoking and hitting me pretty much overnight.

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<v Speaker 2>So my mom left. I had no idea why. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know actually she left. I just assumed my dad

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<v Speaker 2>took us. And my dad suddenly hitting us, yelling, drinking,

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<v Speaker 2>and smoking.

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<v Speaker 3>So that was a radical shift.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was, you know, obviously having your world turned

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<v Speaker 2>upside down and we started singing a bars to make

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<v Speaker 2>a living.

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<v Speaker 3>Growing up in bars was not easy.

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<v Speaker 2>I would have men put dimes in my hand and say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, call me when you're sixteen. You're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be great to fuck when you're older. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>just grew up in a wild environment. But I'm dyslexic,

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<v Speaker 2>and for some reason, I think that causes me to

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<v Speaker 2>see patterns, and I'm very visual. And what I was

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<v Speaker 2>seeing was pain. I had a front row seat to pain.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in pain. It was the most salient feature

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<v Speaker 2>in my life. And what I was seeing in the

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<v Speaker 2>bars and what I was seeing in my dad, I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh my gosh, we're all in pain. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was watching how people dealt with it over the years.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw drug use, I saw rage, I saw sex,

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<v Speaker 2>I saw illicit behavior, and I think I had just

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<v Speaker 2>been learning about oysters in school and that oysters have

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<v Speaker 2>an irritant like a bit of sand and they make

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<v Speaker 2>a pearl. And I was like, I have this irritant,

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<v Speaker 2>I have this pain, but I'm not making a pearl.

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<v Speaker 2>None of us are making pearl. Why don't we make

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<v Speaker 2>pearls out of this instead? Like the visual I saw

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<v Speaker 2>was this hurt, this wound, and people would layer all

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<v Speaker 2>these things to avoid it and to try.

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<v Speaker 3>And bury it.

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<v Speaker 2>But by the end of it, they were consumed in

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<v Speaker 2>a mountain of other distractions that caused more pain. And

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<v Speaker 2>for anybody to face that after so many decades was

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<v Speaker 2>quite difficult. You had to deal with all this crap

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<v Speaker 2>you've done and inflicted more pain on yourself basically just

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<v Speaker 2>to go ahead and deal with this. And so to me,

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<v Speaker 2>like I remember saying, pain, you know what do I

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<v Speaker 2>do with pain? I remember writing down, and I remember

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<v Speaker 2>the quickest way is through, and to kind of promise

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<v Speaker 2>myself that I would try and deal with my pain,

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<v Speaker 2>just out of a matter of practicality. But I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>always know how to handle it, and so I tried

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<v Speaker 2>to look to things that gave me relief. Writing gave

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<v Speaker 2>me relief. It was very obvious that it did, didn't

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<v Speaker 2>take it away, but something about moving toward it helped.

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<v Speaker 2>And I learned about the buffalo from I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>when I was like ten or something, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>they're the only animal that moved to the heart of

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<v Speaker 2>the storm, and that the quickest way again is through.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what gave me this role model of writing.

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<v Speaker 2>For whatever reason, moved me toward my pain, and for

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<v Speaker 2>whatever reason, that relieved the pain a little bit. It

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<v Speaker 2>just made it slightly manageable. And for the pain I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't figure out what to do with that, I called

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<v Speaker 2>putting a pin in it. Now you would call it

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<v Speaker 2>just compartmentalized. I would just put a pin in it

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<v Speaker 2>until I could learn what to do with it later.

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<v Speaker 1>So your dad had been abused by his father. You'd

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<v Speaker 1>say that if things didn't go his way or you

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<v Speaker 1>woke him up, you'd have might gotten hit. And there's

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<v Speaker 1>one poignant story that really stuck with me is that

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<v Speaker 1>he hit you and your brother. You had to walk

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<v Speaker 1>eight miles to school because you missed the bus with

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<v Speaker 1>bloody noses in the cold Alaska weather, and then he

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<v Speaker 1>came to school with your lunches almost looking ashamed and

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<v Speaker 1>that something awoke in you that you're saying, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to explain this to him. I want to connect the dots,

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<v Speaker 1>which only enraged him again. And just that sequence, Jewel

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<v Speaker 1>captured the trauma bond in sheer perfection. That probably three

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<v Speaker 1>four our sequence. He wakes up, he gets frustrated, he

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<v Speaker 1>takes it out on you and your brother physically, he comes,

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<v Speaker 1>he brings the lunch. Oh maybe it sounds so bad,

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<v Speaker 1>I could forget that. That's it. That sequence is the

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<v Speaker 1>trauma bonded relationship, and it's an almost impossible cycle to

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<v Speaker 1>break out of.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And there was also what we would call gaslighting

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<v Speaker 2>when I sat down with them on the couch and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh my god, I think I see

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<v Speaker 2>a pattern and I kind of see what happened, and

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<v Speaker 2>I see what's leading to this maybe for him, and

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<v Speaker 2>how it's affecting me, and I probably remind him of

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<v Speaker 2>my mom. And I was so excited to share that

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<v Speaker 2>with him. And I think that having a young girl,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, try and explain your psychology not attractive to people.

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<v Speaker 2>And he talked to me out of my truth and

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know better. I got confused. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the most traumatic. That more than being hit,

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<v Speaker 2>was much more damaging to me because I went from

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<v Speaker 2>feeling with certainty that I was seeing things correctly to

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<v Speaker 2>doubting my own internal voice. And that was a bitch

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<v Speaker 2>to recover from. Like I get chills talking about it.

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<v Speaker 2>That took decades for me to figure out how to

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<v Speaker 2>reinstate my own internal compass because I began getting It's

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<v Speaker 2>funny now we have this term gaslight, but I began

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<v Speaker 2>getting gas lit by both of my parents to where

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<v Speaker 2>my own truth and my own ability to navigate became

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<v Speaker 2>quite obscured and caused a lot of pain for many.

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<v Speaker 1>Decades, which is really what the legacy of this is.

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<v Speaker 1>The bruises, the scratches, the wounds they do heal on

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<v Speaker 1>our memory conveniently pushes that out, but that emotional loss

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<v Speaker 1>of losing your sense of knowing what reality basically, it

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<v Speaker 1>can take a lifetime to heal from. How did you

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<v Speaker 1>continue to cope with your home life as you grew up?

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<v Speaker 3>I did move out at fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I decided that it was just better to leave my

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<v Speaker 2>dad than stay in this like intense arguing, fighting, physical

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<v Speaker 2>dynamic and just go out.

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<v Speaker 3>On my own.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew that statistically doing that was quite dangerous, but

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to cut my losses. And that's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>how I've always been, is like, can I do something different?

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<v Speaker 3>Can I do better? How will I succeed?

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<v Speaker 2>And so, rather than kind of fixating on anger for

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<v Speaker 2>my dad, which I had a lot of anger, I

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<v Speaker 2>decided to put all of my resources into going what

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<v Speaker 2>makes me think I can move out at fifteen and

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<v Speaker 2>not become a drug addict or a prostitute, because that's

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<v Speaker 2>statistically what I should be destined to. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>knew I had this genetic inheritance. I'd been learning about

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<v Speaker 2>it in school. You know, we had a genetic inheritance

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<v Speaker 2>that could give us a predisposition to diabetes.

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<v Speaker 3>Or heart disease.

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<v Speaker 2>But I saw this like an emotional inheritance. It was

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<v Speaker 2>habits and emotional languaging that I was inheriting, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was going to give me a predisposition to abuse, addiction, all.

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<v Speaker 3>Kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what I realized I was up against was

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<v Speaker 2>learning a new emotional language. And at least that felt

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<v Speaker 2>like a clear objective. You know, I knew like I

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<v Speaker 2>could go to school to learn Spanish, but there was

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<v Speaker 2>nowhere to learn a new emotional language. But at least

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<v Speaker 2>knowing what I was up against felt like a clear objective,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I went my own way. I didn't think

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<v Speaker 2>i'd ever see him again. I didn't honestly care. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>if I ever saw him again. I felt like what

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<v Speaker 2>I was up against was such a monumental and dangerous

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<v Speaker 2>proposition that I just had to put on my resources

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<v Speaker 2>to that.

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<v Speaker 1>How is your relationship with your father today?

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<v Speaker 2>So my dad and I do have a good relationship. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>all I can say is I didn't try and heal them.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't try and save them, not that I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's bad. You know, each their own. I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>how to, and I just tried to focus on saving

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<v Speaker 2>my own life. Basically, my dad in his sixties late

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<v Speaker 2>sixties got sober and he wanted to figure out how

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<v Speaker 2>to heal.

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<v Speaker 3>On his own.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, especially when my son was born, my dad

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<v Speaker 2>really wanted to be involved, and he asked my permission,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 3>He's nice.

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<v Speaker 2>Not a lot of people get i'm sorry. My dad

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<v Speaker 2>did say I'm sorry, but it doesn't mean you get

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<v Speaker 2>a relationship back. Changed behavior earns back relationships, and so

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<v Speaker 2>you have to trust yourself and your real sight, and

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<v Speaker 2>that really comes through healing. I had to trust my

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<v Speaker 2>ability to perceive my dad for who and where he

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<v Speaker 2>was now, and behavior is everything. His behavior was different

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<v Speaker 2>and it didn't come back to a relationship overnight, but

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<v Speaker 2>through consistent changed behavior, I felt like it was worth

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<v Speaker 2>having a relationship. I felt like it was not only

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<v Speaker 2>safe for my son, but even beneficial. And so that's

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<v Speaker 2>why my dad and I have a relationship. We met

0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.440
<v Speaker 2>as two adults that had healed a lot, and that's

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.760
<v Speaker 2>a gift I certainly didn't think i'd be given in

0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:51.640
<v Speaker 2>my life, but a lot of that is owed to

0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.960
<v Speaker 2>my dad and ode to my own healing.

0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 1>You said something is so so important here, Juel, which

0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.720
<v Speaker 1>has changed behavior is what changes relationships. I'm sorry. Is nice,

0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.560
<v Speaker 1>but that's not how you can actually move into another

0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.560
<v Speaker 1>phase of your relationship. And I'm so so happy for

0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you that you and your father have been able to

0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.560
<v Speaker 1>achieve that that your son will reap the benefits of

0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 1>your father's healing. It's not the norm, and I think

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.439
<v Speaker 1>that foul forever question do I reconnect? Do I not reconnect?

0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Is this going to set me back? But as you

0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.600
<v Speaker 1>put it that process of healing for you had to

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.480
<v Speaker 1>be you. This wasn't about I have to heal for

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.520
<v Speaker 1>my dad because of my dad, to convert my dad.

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:32.920
<v Speaker 1>But Jewel's going to go out and heal. And you

0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.400
<v Speaker 1>said both of your parents gaslight? Did you? And I

0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.480
<v Speaker 1>want to go back to talking. You said, your mom,

0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.640
<v Speaker 1>I put a pin in that jewel, and I'm coming

0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.959
<v Speaker 1>back using your metaphor? Is that your mother left at

0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.240
<v Speaker 1>eight years old? You know, when I close my eyes

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 1>and I think of what eight is and my own daughters,

0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 1>it's so young. And she left you at eight, which

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 1>is unfathomable to either of us as parents, Right, anyone

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.320
<v Speaker 1>who's a parent, can you talk that and what that

0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 1>entire relationship with your mother looked like?

0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.320
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to describe. My dad's kind of a much

0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.320
<v Speaker 2>more cut and dry case. Being hit hurts, it feels wrong,

0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 2>it looks wrong. A guy that yells and gets angry

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>is an easy villain to identify. I don't think my

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 2>dad's a villain, but it's easy to identify that My

0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.160
<v Speaker 2>mom was subtle and the abuse was a very different type.

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 2>And it appeared as love, and it appeared as gentleness

0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:34.400
<v Speaker 2>and appeared as safety, and it was perfectly set up

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.200
<v Speaker 2>by the fact that the volatility of my dad made

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 2>this contrast of this calm, quiet woman who never yelled,

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.480
<v Speaker 2>who always said the right things, who said she loved me,

0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 2>who said I was incredible. I mean, you just you

0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 2>run to that, not knowing that you're consuming poison. You know,

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 2>when I look at both my parents. There's a great

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.199
<v Speaker 2>book called Traumatic Narcissism by Daniel Shaw.

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 3>It's my really hell me. Isn't it wonderful coreage?

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it is literally under my pillow. I've read

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 1>it so many times.

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Is brilliant, It's wonderful work.

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 2>And I want to make a really strong caveat I

0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 2>am not diagnosing my parents. I've just read books that

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 2>helped me understand my own personal experience. One of the

0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.000
<v Speaker 2>most interesting things he said is when you're raised by

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 2>a traumatic narcissist, you either become one or you.

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Get married to one.

0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Basically, I just sort of say that as a bit

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.080
<v Speaker 2>of perspective, because what my mom did I consider to

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>be incredibly difficult and damaging. What I'm about to say

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 2>about my mom is so inflammatory, it's easy to make

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 2>her into this huge villain at the same time, I

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.160
<v Speaker 2>feel like somebody who was raised in an impossible circumstance

0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 2>by people who were raised in impossible and circumstances by

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 2>people who were raised in impossible circumstances. But my mom

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 2>is a complex psychological study. She's a very different animal

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.400
<v Speaker 2>than my dad, you know. So I went from this

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 2>dad that hurts me, to hitchhiking to Anchorage to see

0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 2>my mom as a ten year old, to her saying,

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're so powerful. All people are so powerful.

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Our minds are so powerful. We only used ten percent

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 2>of our mind. I mean, imagine what all the other

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 2>brain can do. I wonder, like, I bet we're powerful

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.200
<v Speaker 2>enough to turn this light on and off with our mind.

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean maybe. And I was like, wow, that's cool

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 3>thing to think about.

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 2>And she's like, why don't you sit here and like

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 2>stare at that light bulb and you see if it's possible.

0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>She's like, I really believe in you, which felt so good.

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>And I sat there on the floor and I stared

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>at a light bulb for four hours and I felt loved,

0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 2>and I felt seen, and I felt safe. And what

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see is that I was being babysat by

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 2>a light bulb, okay, by mom that didn't really want

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 2>to see me. So that's just a kind of good

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 2>tiny image into maybe the nature of our relationship and

0:15:54.720 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>how that evolved to ultimately being something that became incredibly

0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.680
<v Speaker 2>psychologically damaging that I had to reckon with much later.

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.960
<v Speaker 1>It is interesting you brought up the topic of narcissism.

0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 1>I always tell everyone narcissism in and of itself. Jewele

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.440
<v Speaker 1>is not a diagnostic term. It's a description of a

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>personality style. So I can tell you I'm introverted. It's

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 1>not diagnostic. It's simply so who I am, how I

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 1>go through the world. The word does not have a

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 1>good connotation, but it's just merely a personality style that

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>puts a person off and at odds with other people.

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.840
<v Speaker 1>It's very selfish. They put their needs ahead of other people.

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.160
<v Speaker 1>It's not well suited to parenting because of that. It's

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.800
<v Speaker 1>a concept I've talked about called multiple truths. Multiple things

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.440
<v Speaker 1>can be true of one person at a time. My

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.200
<v Speaker 1>mother made me feel special. My mother was fascinating. My

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.480
<v Speaker 1>mother believed in this power of the mind. My mother

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 1>abandoned me. You know, there's a list of things your

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.760
<v Speaker 1>mom did your list of things your dad did, and

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.000
<v Speaker 1>all of those things coexist, and so can you walk

0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.400
<v Speaker 1>us through how that relationship then unfolded for you as

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.160
<v Speaker 1>you now went through adolescence and her presence in your life,

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:05.960
<v Speaker 1>and then as you emerged into adulthood.

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, there's my perspective at the time, which

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:10.639
<v Speaker 2>my mom was a saint to my dad was a

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 2>bad guy. So real, binary, real, black and white. I

0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 2>realized with time much later that there was nothing wrong

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.600
<v Speaker 2>with me. I did what I was built to do.

0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 2>I attached to my mother. I was wired to do it,

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>and so there was nothing wrong with me. There was

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.679
<v Speaker 2>something wrong with my mom's ability to attach. And so

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 2>with hindsight you see the fault there that there was

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 2>a tremendous wound for both my parents. And this isn't

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.720
<v Speaker 2>permission for them having hurt me. And I think where

0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.399
<v Speaker 2>healing gets difficult for a lot of people is we

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 2>don't always know how to hold space and say the

0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 2>truth is, these were hurt people. The truth is also

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:52.199
<v Speaker 2>it's not okay to hurt me.

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Correct.

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.840
<v Speaker 2>That's a difficult duality for people to inhabit. People tend

0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to want to throw the baby out with the bath water,

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.119
<v Speaker 2>or make people all bad or all evil, and that

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 2>isn't true. Hurt people, hurt people, and how we choose

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.640
<v Speaker 2>to hurt people because of our hurt has a lot

0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.639
<v Speaker 2>to do with our own hurt and tools and lack thereof.

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I have a line in one of my songs called

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Goodbye Alice in Wonderland where my love was turned against

0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 2>me like a knife. I loved my mom, and I

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 2>had a tremendous wound, a need right, this gaping hunger that, unexamined,

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.600
<v Speaker 2>informed not only my worldview but all of my choices

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:38.280
<v Speaker 2>and decisions. So this wound was actually causing me to

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 2>be a puppet, and my hands were moving and my

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:47.639
<v Speaker 2>actions were all being orchestrated by my wounds, by my hurt,

0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:52.439
<v Speaker 2>by my need for love, and I didn't see it.

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.680
<v Speaker 3>I didn't see the strings.

0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 2>That were my own wounding, my own desperate need for love.

0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 1>This is a beautifully crafted metaphor, the likes of which

0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 1>could have only come from such a gifted songwriter and poet.

0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.679
<v Speaker 1>Jewel makes a brilliant point here. Our core wounds often

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.600
<v Speaker 1>guide us into treacherous situations and keep us stuck in

0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:22.719
<v Speaker 1>unhealthy ones when those wounds aren't explored and addressed, we

0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:27.440
<v Speaker 1>can drift into unhealthy relationships and find it nearly impossible

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:33.119
<v Speaker 1>to cut the strings and free ourselves. We will be

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 1>right back with this conversation.

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 2>This is the thing that causes you to be attracted

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>to crappy, you know, relationships. This is the thing that

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.080
<v Speaker 2>causes us to make poor choices. Something my mom did,

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 2>and she figured out how to manipulate me in a

0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 2>very masterful and very subtle ways, because my need for

0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.480
<v Speaker 2>valid my need for love, my need for her approval

0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.720
<v Speaker 2>was so great that it was kind of like a

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.639
<v Speaker 2>great martial artist that learns to use your own force

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 2>and turn it against you.

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.360
<v Speaker 3>So she ended up becoming a co manager and a manager.

0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 1>In her best selling memoir Never Broken, Jewel writes that

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.919
<v Speaker 1>she soon felt as though she couldn't make any decisions

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.360
<v Speaker 1>without her mother. She was manipulated into believing that all

0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:32.720
<v Speaker 1>of her success was because of her mom.

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 2>My mom had to do very little to get me

0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.639
<v Speaker 2>to do more and more of what she wanted. My

0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.800
<v Speaker 2>own need for love, my own need to have a mom,

0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.960
<v Speaker 2>the overwhelming hurt and abandonment, and all those things got

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 2>used in a way that was sophisticated, very sophisticated, and

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.439
<v Speaker 2>kept me coming back to her. You know, she has

0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 2>a position and the perspective that is valuable because I

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:02.119
<v Speaker 2>don't trust my own perspective. That made a really dangerous

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.479
<v Speaker 2>dynamic that I never saw that constantly was looking like,

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 2>this woman is a great guide, a great wisdom, great council,

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.560
<v Speaker 2>great spiritual person, and many many.

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 3>People believed that about her as well.

0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 2>And it led to a really you know, dangerous thing,

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 2>like when I got discovered while I was homeless at eighteen,

0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>and I remember calling her and saying, you wouldn't believe it.

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Labels are coming, and she was like, oh, my darling,

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:25.760
<v Speaker 2>let me come down and help you. That must be

0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 2>really overwhelming. You know, if I could go back one moment,

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, and have a do over, it might have

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:34.000
<v Speaker 2>been like, let's wait on that.

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.720
<v Speaker 3>Let's let me see if I can figure this out.

0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Long story short, I woke up at thirty four and

0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>had to come to terms with the fact that I

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.679
<v Speaker 2>had no money and that my mom wasn't who I.

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:46.199
<v Speaker 3>Thought she was.

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Jule has said that while she was on the road touring,

0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.240
<v Speaker 1>working around the clock, her mother was reaping the benefits

0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.639
<v Speaker 1>living a lavish lifestyle with a full staff tending to

0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 1>her every whim. In all, Jewel has estimated her mother

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:09.520
<v Speaker 1>embezzled about one hundred million dollars. How did you cope

0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:10.359
<v Speaker 1>with that betrayal?

0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 2>I've had some very powerful moments in my life. Moving

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 2>out at fifteen was powerful. I learned skills that changed

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.639
<v Speaker 2>my life forever. Moving out into my car because I

0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.240
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have sex with a boss, I decided to live

0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.119
<v Speaker 2>in my car instead. My car got stolen and so

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I was homeless for a year. That was a powerful moment.

0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.119
<v Speaker 2>These are these moments where you either break or you

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.879
<v Speaker 2>go I fucking I have this. I'm going to figure

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 2>this out. And this was another one, this moment of

0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:46.280
<v Speaker 2>I think I was thirty three, thirty four, at whatever

0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:50.399
<v Speaker 2>age I was, this was either going to break me irrevocably,

0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>or I was going to figure it out. I never

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.840
<v Speaker 2>did therapy. I'm not saying that as a heroic gesture.

0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:00.719
<v Speaker 2>I just didn't have access when I was young, and

0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 2>when I was thirty four, I definitely would have had access.

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 2>I had money, but I had been brainwashed. I had

0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:15.439
<v Speaker 2>been so psychologically abused that I didn't want anybody to

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 2>have any access to my mind or my thoughts, or

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:23.840
<v Speaker 2>have any influence. I needed to figure out how to

0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 2>restore my own sense of how to navigate my life.

0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.280
<v Speaker 2>And I was taken down to.

0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:33.479
<v Speaker 3>A nub.

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I was dismantled psychologically, and I played a big part

0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.879
<v Speaker 2>in it. I kept saying yes, and I kept taking

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:43.440
<v Speaker 2>apart pieces of myself.

0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 3>I participated, and I didn't know what was me and

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 3>what was her.

0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:55.960
<v Speaker 2>And I do know that I actively engaged in tricking myself.

0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 2>I do know there was this voice in me yelling

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and kept suppressing it.

0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.200
<v Speaker 3>And I get why. I'm not trying to be hard

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:04.800
<v Speaker 3>on myself.

0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:07.679
<v Speaker 1>I cannot tell you how many times I've heard this

0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 1>from survivors, this idea of tricking yourself. How did you

0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:15.000
<v Speaker 1>begin to unwind that and work through that?

0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I came out of this with so many tools I'd

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 2>love to talk about. I think the first thing I

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:21.679
<v Speaker 2>had to come to terms with is the truth wins.

0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:26.919
<v Speaker 2>I willfully tricked myself about my mom. I wanted to

0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:30.359
<v Speaker 2>believe she loved me. I wanted to believe she loved

0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.640
<v Speaker 2>me so much. But I did make myself a promise

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:38.240
<v Speaker 2>that the truth wins, and that I would dedicate myself

0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:40.479
<v Speaker 2>to seeing the truth, no matter how painful it was,

0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:43.560
<v Speaker 2>being willing to see the truth. And that's what I wrote.

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Good by Alice in Wonderland. You know, one of the

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:48.400
<v Speaker 2>last lines is, these are not tears in my eyes.

0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:53.119
<v Speaker 2>It's me finally learning what's good in my life and

0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:56.040
<v Speaker 2>what isn't. Basically me learning to identify poison for the

0:24:56.080 --> 0:25:00.040
<v Speaker 2>first time in my life, and I correctly identify it.

0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 2>So I began to trust my body. My body was

0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 2>giving me experiences, and I could talk myself out of

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:07.679
<v Speaker 2>my body's experience.

0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, with my mind.

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 1>You said, you and your dad have a good relationship.

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Now what about you and your mom? What has happened there?

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Because that was a much a different kind of betrayal.

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:21.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, what happened with my dad was kind of

0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:27.159
<v Speaker 2>just a surprise, mind you. I don't expect him to

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.160
<v Speaker 2>be somebody he's not. I love my dad and I'm

0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:32.520
<v Speaker 2>proud of him, and we are closed. But I don't

0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:35.119
<v Speaker 2>think his and my relationship are probably what dad daughter

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:40.159
<v Speaker 2>relationships are like. We're two adults that we have a

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 2>lot to offer each other. But you know, my dad

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.159
<v Speaker 2>isn't somebody at call for advice. When I'm hurt, my

0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:49.119
<v Speaker 2>dad isn't somebody at call, and that's okay. So I

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.159
<v Speaker 2>just do kind of want to accept my dad for

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>where he's at, and I make sure I get my

0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>needs met and what my needs are. So I'm not

0:25:57.640 --> 0:25:59.679
<v Speaker 2>looking for my dad to be that guy. You know.

0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I accept him where he's at and it's healthy and

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing harmful about it. Oh, but I'm not coming

0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:08.560
<v Speaker 2>to it from a place of like these wounds, still

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.879
<v Speaker 2>hoping that I get that thing from him. I figure

0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:13.879
<v Speaker 2>out how to get those needs met. And the world

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:15.119
<v Speaker 2>is full of ways to meet.

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:16.639
<v Speaker 3>Those needs, and that's the good news.

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.199
<v Speaker 2>So my mom, the last time I saw her was

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:21.919
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three. It was in a lawyer's office.

0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:25.680
<v Speaker 2>It's a scene that I describe in the book. She said,

0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:27.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm just so glad that I get to

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>go back to just being.

0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 3>Your mom now.

0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 2>And I knew in that moment when she said that,

0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:33.120
<v Speaker 2>that i'd never see her again, or I didn't think

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I would, and I haven't.

0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.000
<v Speaker 3>I haven't seen my mom since that day. She never

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 3>reached out.

0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:40.040
<v Speaker 2>She did write me a letter when I was pregnant

0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:43.199
<v Speaker 2>that said, you know, I'm always here, to forgive you

0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:45.440
<v Speaker 2>whenever you're ready.

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 1>This classic gaslighting and manipulation technique is something I've heard

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 1>from survivors time and again. It offers zero consideration for

0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:00.679
<v Speaker 1>how the letter will affect the emotional well being of

0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:05.520
<v Speaker 1>the recipient, and in this instance, shows us how distorted

0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:10.919
<v Speaker 1>forgiveness can get. People who betray us often twist reality

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:14.919
<v Speaker 1>to make us think we owe them an apology. Sometimes

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:18.480
<v Speaker 1>these moments can be used as a tool to confirm

0:27:18.840 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>what we know to be true, as Jewel did, but

0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:27.520
<v Speaker 1>it never stops being flabbergasting and often destabilizing.

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:32.399
<v Speaker 2>You know, what I did might seem extreme to people.

0:27:32.760 --> 0:27:35.240
<v Speaker 2>There are all kinds of ways to deal with this.

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 2>This is just mine. I always caught my losses, like

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.439
<v Speaker 2>when I felt like it became between death and staying

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 2>with somebody. It took me way too long to leave

0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:49.119
<v Speaker 2>it fully. And my job was just to learn how

0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:51.240
<v Speaker 2>to heal. And it was a real thing to heal

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 2>from the most rebellious thing you can do.

0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 1>It is it is figure out how to be happy.

0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:58.200
<v Speaker 1>It is. It is, yeah, And I had.

0:27:58.000 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>My work cutout for me. It was going to take

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:04.119
<v Speaker 2>all my all, my intellect, all my everything to figure

0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:06.720
<v Speaker 2>out how the hell to recover because I wanted to

0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:12.320
<v Speaker 2>be happy. I wanted to be able to love and

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:15.439
<v Speaker 2>have trust and resilience, and that was such a monumental

0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:19.080
<v Speaker 2>thing that I didn't have time. Now I did have anger.

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 2>I did so much shaft to work through. But I

0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:24.000
<v Speaker 2>realized one day there was a story called the Allegory

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 2>of the Golden Statue. A village had a golden statue.

0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:30.639
<v Speaker 2>They heard a warring tribe was coming. They quickly covered

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:33.199
<v Speaker 2>the statue in layers of mud to obscure its value.

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:37.160
<v Speaker 2>The war came, the war wind there was devastation for generations.

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:41.240
<v Speaker 2>They didn't even think about the statue. Generations went by.

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 2>There was a child playing at the feet of the

0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 2>statue after a rainstorm, and he saw this little chip

0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:51.239
<v Speaker 2>revealing there was pure gold underneath this what people had

0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:54.360
<v Speaker 2>thought was a valueless statue. And for some reason, this

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:59.280
<v Speaker 2>image struck me. I canceled a tour, I quit everything

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:01.440
<v Speaker 2>to see how I can I'd heal psychologically from what

0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 2>had happened with my mom. I was at a ranch

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>in Texas, just figure out what do I do, and

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 2>had this image come back to me, and it suddenly

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 2>hit me, I'm not broken. I just need to do

0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 2>a loving archaeological dig back to who I am. I

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 2>had been covered with layers of mud and spit and

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.840
<v Speaker 2>bruises and psychological programming to where I didn't know me

0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 2>from other but I was existing purely I believed. I

0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 2>choose to believe that I'm not broken. There's not something

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:37.920
<v Speaker 2>wrong with me, There's something right with me. And I

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 2>had to get in touch with what was right with me.

0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 1>That is quite profound. How were you able to do that?

0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:46.800
<v Speaker 2>I looked at that kind of like nature versus nurture.

0:29:47.040 --> 0:29:50.960
<v Speaker 2>My nature was the gold statue, and it existed. I

0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:55.440
<v Speaker 2>had just been obscured through decades of trauma, and so

0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I decided to use my body and my experience as

0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 2>ruth and to trust it and to not talk myself

0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:06.840
<v Speaker 2>out of my experience with my thoughts. And so that

0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:10.240
<v Speaker 2>led me to realizing that my anxiety isn't my enemy,

0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:12.920
<v Speaker 2>it's my ally. And this was probably one of the

0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 2>bigger things that I learned during that time. What if

0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:19.280
<v Speaker 2>my anxiety wasn't this enemy that I needed to suppress

0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and talk myself out of and disassociate from. What if

0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:25.040
<v Speaker 2>it was something for me to listen to What made

0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>me think of it was food poisoning. You know, if

0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 2>you eat bad fish, you throw up, and you learn

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:31.960
<v Speaker 2>don't eat bad fish again.

0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:33.920
<v Speaker 3>You shouldn't get mad at throwing up.

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:36.080
<v Speaker 2>You should think throwing up because it was your body's

0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 2>way of saying you consumed something that made you sick.

0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:42.480
<v Speaker 2>It makes me so tender I tear up. Anxiety was

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 2>my best alarm system, letting me know I was consuming

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 2>something that didn't agree with my nature. And that's how

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:53.959
<v Speaker 2>I began to deprogram myself. I had thousands of thoughts

0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.320
<v Speaker 2>that were false. I had thousands of beliefs that were false.

0:30:57.320 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I had thousands of guilts and shames and decades of

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 2>stuff that I was trying to figure out how to

0:31:04.600 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 2>sort through. And I realized my anxiety was my compass.

0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:08.400
<v Speaker 3>In a weird way.

0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 2>It's just one point on a compass. But when I

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:15.400
<v Speaker 2>had a thought and it made me anxious, I would

0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:17.600
<v Speaker 2>stop and I would write down what was I thinking, feeling,

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:20.760
<v Speaker 2>or doing, and I would just move on. And then

0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>when I was consumed with more anxiety, I would write

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>what was I just thinking, feeling, or doing. And what

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I realized is those were thoughts, feelings, and actions that

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:32.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't agree with me, and was I willing to stop

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 2>consuming them and see if I became less anxious. And

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:38.440
<v Speaker 2>so that's one of the first steps I took in

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 2>learning how to deprogram myself, learning how to instill a

0:31:42.480 --> 0:31:46.479
<v Speaker 2>compass in me, learning how to curate my thoughts and

0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>replace them with thoughts that did agree with me, like

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>a soothing medicine. Almost, you know, these are decades. I'm

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about it all up.

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not something you're going to do in a week.

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:59.920
<v Speaker 2>But there's an axiom called the wicked teacher, and it

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:04.400
<v Speaker 2>says you become that which you resent. Yes, And that's

0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:07.560
<v Speaker 2>the most powerful sentence when you look at what your

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:10.200
<v Speaker 2>choices are. If you've been betrayed, it's a fork in

0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:13.200
<v Speaker 2>the road, you know, But choosing willfully in that one moment, No,

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go right. I want to learn how

0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:18.600
<v Speaker 2>to love and trust and heal. And so every time

0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I would be consumed with regret, resentment, just say what,

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 2>that's a coping mechanism. It's a it's the left road,

0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 2>and I want to take the right road because I

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:29.480
<v Speaker 2>have enough to do on the right road.

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 3>I have enough to work on.

0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Right I think a lot of people out of there

0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:36.880
<v Speaker 1>is a family betrayal that persists. A pattern of behavior

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 1>that persists is people do feel anger. And one thing

0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:43.000
<v Speaker 1>I do let people know is you feel as you feel.

0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 1>And the thing you need to trust about feeling is

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.520
<v Speaker 1>to never over identify with feeling. There is no right

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.120
<v Speaker 1>or wrong feeling, to have you have the feeling you have,

0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 1>and to never judge how you feel, because that's the

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.280
<v Speaker 1>internalized judgment a person has always carried on.

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I want to touch on anger because choosing

0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:03.720
<v Speaker 2>to go right doesn't mean you stop being angry.

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 3>It took me decades. I'm sure to process.

0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 2>The anger and I will have reserves for life. Probably

0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:17.160
<v Speaker 2>for me, what I learned about anger is right, I

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 2>should have been angry for what happened to me. That's

0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:22.760
<v Speaker 2>a sign of health. Anger is typically a sign of health.

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:28.960
<v Speaker 2>I think of it like a gunpowder blast. It's quick,

0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and it's intense, and it should create a tremendous amount

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>of energy in your body to take an action. Yes,

0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 2>And so for me it was like, I'm angry, What

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 2>am I going to do with it?

0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:45.480
<v Speaker 2>And by constantly focusing on okay, what am I going

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:47.760
<v Speaker 2>to do with this anger. My anger lets me know

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:50.720
<v Speaker 2>that a boundary has been crossed, or that I crossed

0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 2>my own boundary, or that I compromised, or that I

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:55.160
<v Speaker 2>got compromised.

0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:57.360
<v Speaker 3>It's very powerful. It's a good tool.

0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:00.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm very angry at my mom. And then

0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 2>you have a choice, you know, will I fester? Right?

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Because hey, many nights did I stay up with circular thoughts? Resenting, angry,

0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 2>locked in and it is a poison, and it was

0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:15.000
<v Speaker 2>my own mind. What am I now going to do?

0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Now I have a lot of energy my body. I

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:20.680
<v Speaker 2>would typically spiral in shame. I would lock into regret.

0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I would go into self loathing. I would lock into

0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:28.759
<v Speaker 2>just mind boggling resentment for my mom and realizing those

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 2>were all choices I was making, and could I do

0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 2>something else with this energy? Could I do something else

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 2>with this anger? And so I do just want to

0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>highlight that, Yeah, it isn't like this kind of mental

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:43.040
<v Speaker 2>like I'm just gonna choose not to be angry and forgive.

0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.920
<v Speaker 2>It is not like that. It's a dirty business business.

0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:50.280
<v Speaker 2>It is a dirty, gritty business. And that for somebody

0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 2>that never knew how to love herself, that never knew

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 2>how to champion myself. It was a process of learning

0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:01.360
<v Speaker 2>that self love was not staying up at night and

0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:03.400
<v Speaker 2>doing that to myself, but saying, okay, but what am

0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:06.160
<v Speaker 2>I going to do tomorrow that builds my life instead

0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 2>of tears it down. So I hope that explains that

0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:12.840
<v Speaker 2>whole thing. It can sound like I was so heroic,

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 2>of like I just chose, I chose to go right.

0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:16.560
<v Speaker 3>It isn't like that you.

0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:19.279
<v Speaker 1>Were heroic and you were angry and you chose to

0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:21.279
<v Speaker 1>go right. All of those things are true. Again, the

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:23.840
<v Speaker 1>multiple truths. I have to say though, that scene with

0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:25.480
<v Speaker 1>your mom, the two thousand and three one in the

0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:28.879
<v Speaker 1>lawyer's office, it was absolutely chilling because here your mother

0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:32.759
<v Speaker 1>has completely financially abused you, financially betrayed you. It hits

0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.239
<v Speaker 1>even harder because of where you came from, where there

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:39.360
<v Speaker 1>wasn't enough. You really struggled financially, your family struggled financially,

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:43.280
<v Speaker 1>to have all that worked and just passion and everything

0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you did for to at least a financial part of

0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:48.840
<v Speaker 1>it to have gone away. Then for your mother to

0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:51.879
<v Speaker 1>pivot and say, I guess I have to go back

0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.880
<v Speaker 1>to just being your mother, which is really code for

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:57.319
<v Speaker 1>I guess that means I'm going to leave again? Was

0:35:57.600 --> 0:36:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean it should personally? And shook me to my core.

0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:04.879
<v Speaker 1>My question then becomes, all of this is very complicated

0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:09.200
<v Speaker 1>relationship you had with your mother. How has this impacted

0:36:09.520 --> 0:36:12.520
<v Speaker 1>your process as a mother yourself?

0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:16.759
<v Speaker 2>I love being a mom, so much to say about it.

0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:20.520
<v Speaker 2>I highly recommend doing as much healing as you can

0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 2>before having a child, if you have that luxury or

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:26.319
<v Speaker 2>the option. If you didn't know you had stuff to

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:29.839
<v Speaker 2>heal from, it's okay. I believe that as I heal

0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:33.319
<v Speaker 2>in front of my child, it's a healing for him. Yeah.

0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:37.680
<v Speaker 2>And I can tell my son it's okay to make mistakes.

0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:40.920
<v Speaker 2>But if I don't think it's okay for me to

0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:46.319
<v Speaker 2>make mistakes, I'm sending a mixed message to my son. Yeah.

0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Admitting you still need to heal even as a parent

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:54.360
<v Speaker 2>is admitting you're going to make mistakes and finding a

0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:58.640
<v Speaker 2>way to hold some grace for yourself and realizing that

0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 2>just modeling when I'm make mistakes for my son and I.

0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Come clean as it were. Yah that I'm going like,

0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:07.239
<v Speaker 3>you know what, I was really impatient.

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:10.200
<v Speaker 2>I was so patient. Oh my gosh, I'm impatient. Like

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:13.600
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm gonna go for a walk. I gotta

0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:16.160
<v Speaker 2>go figure this out. He knows I'm impatient. Why would

0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I fool all of us that I'm not obviously not

0:37:20.360 --> 0:37:24.800
<v Speaker 2>over involving him in my process or overly adulting my process,

0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:27.799
<v Speaker 2>but just giving a voice to the truth, showing a

0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:31.799
<v Speaker 2>process of how I handle it that emotions are. My

0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 2>son has big feelings, you know, no shocker, He's like

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:37.440
<v Speaker 2>my kid. What do we do with intense feelings? How

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:40.080
<v Speaker 2>do we manage them? Sometimes we catch him quick, sometimes

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.319
<v Speaker 2>we don't notice him till a little too late. I

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:45.879
<v Speaker 2>love healing. I believe I'll be healing for the rest

0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:48.320
<v Speaker 2>of my life. I believe I'll be learning and growing

0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:51.319
<v Speaker 2>the rest of my life. And I hope my son

0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:53.680
<v Speaker 2>has an appetite for that. So it's the only way

0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:57.160
<v Speaker 2>for him to kind of see the messiness as we

0:37:57.239 --> 0:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>do it. I am glad I healed a ton prior.

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:03.600
<v Speaker 1>My conversation will continue after this break.

0:38:10.560 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>The other thing I realized is again I kind of

0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:16.239
<v Speaker 2>talk about this nature and nurture, but because the way

0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I loved my mom, I took refuge in that in

0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:23.840
<v Speaker 2>a weird way, and it was that to remind myself

0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:25.560
<v Speaker 2>constantly that I knew how to love.

0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:30.200
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it was intact.

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>And I had to really trust that and not see

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 2>that as a negative with my son, but to embrace

0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:40.440
<v Speaker 2>that I was intact. I knew how to love, and

0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:44.640
<v Speaker 2>I could trust that nature in me. You know, having

0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 2>a newborn is very scary. You don't innately know how

0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 2>to breastfeed. It's not as intuitive as you all think.

0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>So it kind of threw me and it was very dumb.

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.759
<v Speaker 2>I watched somehow a panda with a baby, and I

0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:57.360
<v Speaker 2>was like, I have this in me. I have to

0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:00.920
<v Speaker 2>trust I have this in me, even though I wasn't nurtured.

0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:04.759
<v Speaker 2>I have to trust in my bones this ability to

0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:07.719
<v Speaker 2>navigate this and keep and I had to have faith

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:09.600
<v Speaker 2>in that, and I had to keep fighting my way

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:10.399
<v Speaker 2>back to that love.

0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:12.480
<v Speaker 3>And it's worked out well.

0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:14.799
<v Speaker 1>It has worked out. And not only have you done

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:16.720
<v Speaker 1>that for your son, you're doing it for the world.

0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:19.759
<v Speaker 1>And so I really want you to talk about your platform,

0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:23.399
<v Speaker 1>Inner World, because it's an amazing resource. I know it's

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 1>going to help so many people, Jules, So can you

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:26.920
<v Speaker 1>explain what it is?

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Thank You?

0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 2>In Our World is a mental health platform that's virtual

0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:39.160
<v Speaker 2>so you can use your iPad or your iPhone. You

0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:42.080
<v Speaker 2>can even use like VR goggles if you want, and

0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 2>you come into a virtual community where it.

0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:46.880
<v Speaker 3>Is completely safe.

0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>There are no trolls, there is no bullying, there is

0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:55.160
<v Speaker 2>incredible moderation, and you can participate in a community where

0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:59.000
<v Speaker 2>people are just hanging around like a campfire or these

0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 2>really logically calm settings and just find connection, which have

0:40:04.280 --> 0:40:08.840
<v Speaker 2>tremendous network effects, right it helps. Connection alone is wildly curative.

0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:11.799
<v Speaker 2>Or you can actually attend classes in a peer to

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>peer setting that are led by guides that are trained

0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:19.120
<v Speaker 2>nice and we have over one hundred classes a week.

0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Groups, Yeah, are already like we really scaled up the classes.

0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:27.400
<v Speaker 2>They're specific around living with anxiety, living with chronic illness,

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:32.440
<v Speaker 2>living with depression, being a support person for somebody with

0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>an illness, living with agoraphobia, or you know, extreme social anxiety.

0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:40.520
<v Speaker 2>You'll find, you know a lot of people even go

0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:42.680
<v Speaker 2>to classes they don't think they need, just because you

0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:46.319
<v Speaker 2>learn so much. It's all based on behavioral tools. So

0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:50.279
<v Speaker 2>these are not therapists, these are not PhDs. These are

0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:53.200
<v Speaker 2>lay people that have been trained to lead classes. There

0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:56.400
<v Speaker 2>is a ton still of oversight and moderation. If you

0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:58.720
<v Speaker 2>know somebody is for some reason having an acute trigger

0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:02.359
<v Speaker 2>and having acute suicide ideation, were not equipped for that,

0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:04.560
<v Speaker 2>and so they can be removed to a private room

0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 2>and then helped, because that's not what our platform is.

0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:09.280
<v Speaker 3>But you'll learn tools.

0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 2>So let's say you go to a social anxiety meeting

0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 2>you don't like going out. We had a woman that

0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:17.320
<v Speaker 2>hadn't left home in four years. She was in weekly therapy,

0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:20.200
<v Speaker 2>and we taught her a tool it's called solving ahead.

0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:22.839
<v Speaker 2>You write down what you want to do. She wanted

0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:25.080
<v Speaker 2>to go to the grocery store. You say, what's the

0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:27.920
<v Speaker 2>worst case scenario? She wrote out her worst case scenario.

0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.560
<v Speaker 2>What's your plan? I will call this person. I'm going

0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:33.160
<v Speaker 2>to take my phone with me so I can stay

0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:35.400
<v Speaker 2>on inner world is what she wanted. She had that

0:41:35.400 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 2>support system live. And then now let's say, what's the

0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:41.840
<v Speaker 2>best case scenario. Not that we get to control the outcome,

0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:44.480
<v Speaker 2>but how could we influence it where maybe the best

0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:47.879
<v Speaker 2>case scenario happens. What's your plan to kind of help

0:41:47.920 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 2>influences to hopefully have a good outcome. And then what's

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.840
<v Speaker 2>the most likely case scenario? It's usually somewhere in the middle,

0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:58.160
<v Speaker 2>and then armed with that, people learn this behavioral tool.

0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:00.200
<v Speaker 2>And I think in four months of our platform, she

0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:02.480
<v Speaker 2>went out not only the grocery shop, but she ended

0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:03.840
<v Speaker 2>up going to a concert.

0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:05.600
<v Speaker 3>With Biplos's fantastic.

0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:08.799
<v Speaker 2>And her therapist started coming into our settings because she

0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:10.840
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh my gosh, like how did my client?

0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:14.319
<v Speaker 3>What tool was that? So that's what we do. You

0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:14.920
<v Speaker 3>sign up.

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:18.200
<v Speaker 2>It's a free platform but has a premium subscription, so

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:21.000
<v Speaker 2>more access to more meetings and more supports is as

0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:24.319
<v Speaker 2>little as eight dollars a month. We wanted access for all.

0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:27.960
<v Speaker 2>We wanted this highly affordable because to me, the idea

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 2>that people don't have access to these tools is unforgivable

0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and we need to make them very readily available.

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's an amazing resource. It is you

0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:39.120
<v Speaker 1>also infusing what your process has been, like you said,

0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:42.600
<v Speaker 1>so so complicated, but always plugged into healing, that no

0:42:42.640 --> 0:42:45.959
<v Speaker 1>matter what our backstories are, we're not defined by them,

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:49.839
<v Speaker 1>and if anything, they can really foster resilience. You talk

0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 1>about this idea that just because something bends doesn't mean

0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:55.759
<v Speaker 1>that it breaks, and you're really a living monument to

0:42:55.840 --> 0:42:58.319
<v Speaker 1>that idea that we can bend without breaking, even though

0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:00.319
<v Speaker 1>we don't believe that. I'm so glad I had the

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 1>opportunity to talk to you and get to know you

0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:06.640
<v Speaker 1>and learn your story because I think it and I

0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 1>know it informed what I share with survivors of really

0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:16.239
<v Speaker 1>difficult historical intergenerational cycles and stories and their families, and

0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 1>how to understand that you can always find your autonomy,

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.880
<v Speaker 1>your sense of who you are, and go and actually

0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:27.520
<v Speaker 1>live into that full sense of you, but that there's

0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:30.080
<v Speaker 1>going to always be some echoes of it. Like you said,

0:43:30.120 --> 0:43:32.240
<v Speaker 1>some our wounds can cause us to be a puppet.

0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:35.080
<v Speaker 1>What you showed us is that the marionette strings can

0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:37.520
<v Speaker 1>be cut and that we can move forward. But it

0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:40.200
<v Speaker 1>is a journey. And so again we're not only blessed

0:43:40.200 --> 0:43:42.919
<v Speaker 1>with your music and the world, Jewle, I can say

0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.360
<v Speaker 1>even more so now with your journey and your commitment

0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:47.279
<v Speaker 1>to healing not just for yourself but for everyone in

0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the world. So thank you, so much, Thank.

0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 2>You so much, Thanks for what you do and giving

0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:56.880
<v Speaker 2>a thoughtful place to yeah discuss really complicated.

0:43:56.520 --> 0:43:59.760
<v Speaker 3>Very nuanced, very difficult things.

0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:03.920
<v Speaker 2>And again I would just emphasize, like it's not always

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:07.680
<v Speaker 2>black and white, it's a world of grace, And for me,

0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.640
<v Speaker 2>my healing has been about what can I do? What

0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:13.120
<v Speaker 2>can I do better today? Do I want to be happy?

0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Am I going to be accountable for it? And if

0:44:15.200 --> 0:44:18.120
<v Speaker 2>you are willing to do that, you know. I always

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:20.279
<v Speaker 2>tell people they're like, healing is so hard and it's

0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:21.200
<v Speaker 2>so painful, and.

0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:22.959
<v Speaker 3>It is, it is real work.

0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:26.640
<v Speaker 2>But being dysfunctional is very painful and a lot of work.

0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:29.200
<v Speaker 2>It's just familiar and there's no light at the end

0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.279
<v Speaker 2>of that tunnel. So learning a new way, learning a

0:44:32.280 --> 0:44:34.120
<v Speaker 2>new habit, learning a new way to think is so

0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:36.359
<v Speaker 2>painful and hard. But at least there is a light

0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 2>potentially at the end of that tunnel. So why not

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:39.680
<v Speaker 2>take that? Ben?

0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:42.839
<v Speaker 1>I love it again. Thank you, thank you, thank you

0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 1>so much. Here are my takeaways from my conversation with Jewel. First,

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:55.719
<v Speaker 1>she talks about this idea of emotional inheritance and emotional language.

0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.880
<v Speaker 1>When we think about inheritance and genetics of our psychology,

0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:04.600
<v Speaker 1>we often think about psychological vulnerabilities or genetic vulnerabilities for

0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:10.040
<v Speaker 1>mental illness, but this is something very different and very

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:15.080
<v Speaker 1>important for survivors. We learn to speak emotion the way

0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:19.080
<v Speaker 1>we observe and are taught in childhood. We may have

0:45:19.239 --> 0:45:23.520
<v Speaker 1>permission to express a range of emotion, or we may

0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:28.640
<v Speaker 1>be taught to use displacing emotional language, or we may

0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:34.279
<v Speaker 1>find ourselves completely silenced emotionally. Rage may be a frequently

0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:38.880
<v Speaker 1>accessed to emotion, and sadness may be shamed. Growth and

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:42.319
<v Speaker 1>evolution past the limited emotional languages we are given in

0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:47.640
<v Speaker 1>childhood often requires major work and shifts, especially for people

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 1>whose emotional vocabularies were limited. Our emotional inheritances are intergenerational

0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:59.480
<v Speaker 1>and reflect the traumas, losses, joys, and grief of generations past,

0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:04.400
<v Speaker 1>and become the foundation of our emotional languages. In our

0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 1>next takeaway, Jewel said that changed behavior is what earns

0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:15.080
<v Speaker 1>back relationships. So many people in invalidating relationships are waiting

0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:19.360
<v Speaker 1>for the I am sorry that rarely comes, and that

0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:22.680
<v Speaker 1>when it does come, folks may go all in again.

0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:28.080
<v Speaker 1>But what Jewel shares here is actually a fundamental truth

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:32.959
<v Speaker 1>to hold onto in a narcissistic relationship as well. Even

0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 1>if you do get an apology, it's not enough. There

0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:43.200
<v Speaker 1>must be behavior change, sustained and accountable behavior change any less,

0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:46.920
<v Speaker 1>and we can all but guarantee that the old patterns

0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 1>are going to return again for our next takeaway. While

0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Jewel did endure multiple hardships and losses in childhood, that

0:46:57.360 --> 0:47:00.640
<v Speaker 1>one of the worst was the theft of her inner

0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:04.719
<v Speaker 1>compass through being gaslighted by both of her parents, and

0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 1>she highlights a particular situation when she connected the dots

0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:13.839
<v Speaker 1>quite accurately and was told she was patently wrong. The

0:47:13.960 --> 0:47:18.040
<v Speaker 1>loss of that compass means we are navigating without a

0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:22.000
<v Speaker 1>compass as we emerge into adulthood and can leave us

0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:27.040
<v Speaker 1>doubting our intuition and our perceptions. In this next takeaway,

0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Jewel brought up an off sided line hurt people hurt people, Yes,

0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:40.360
<v Speaker 1>they do, But Jewel's follow up line is key, hurt people,

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:45.080
<v Speaker 1>hurt people, but it's not okay to hurt me. The

0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:49.719
<v Speaker 1>hurt people's spin often ends up feeling like a justification

0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:53.000
<v Speaker 1>or an excuse, and while we can hold empathy for

0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:55.440
<v Speaker 1>folks who have been hurt, it is not a free

0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:58.680
<v Speaker 1>pass to keep hurting. But sadly many people can view

0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:02.879
<v Speaker 1>it that way. Or this next takeaway, she shared two

0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:07.240
<v Speaker 1>key tools that were instrumental in her healing, being willing

0:48:07.320 --> 0:48:11.360
<v Speaker 1>to see the truth and identify poison and to listen

0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:16.120
<v Speaker 1>to her anxiety. She viewed anxiety as a signal, which

0:48:16.160 --> 0:48:20.120
<v Speaker 1>is an astute observation. Our anxiety can teach us about

0:48:20.120 --> 0:48:24.279
<v Speaker 1>ourselves and how to take care of ourselves. However, that

0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:27.720
<v Speaker 1>process of being willing to see the truth that takes

0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:30.600
<v Speaker 1>a while. It is about pulling out of the shadow

0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:34.600
<v Speaker 1>of trauma, bonding and enablers and see it. And to

0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:38.520
<v Speaker 1>see the truth can also be a lonely place because

0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:43.840
<v Speaker 1>most people don't. And in our last takeaway, Jewel calls

0:48:43.920 --> 0:48:51.840
<v Speaker 1>healing rebellion and that could not be more true. The invalidating, confusing, toxic,

0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:57.160
<v Speaker 1>or narcissistic relationships can only persist if we do not heal,

0:48:57.600 --> 0:49:01.800
<v Speaker 1>and when we start healing, these were relationships also change.

0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Healing is not an overnight, dramatic experience. It is thousands

0:49:06.719 --> 0:49:09.879
<v Speaker 1>of micro changes that bring you closer to your sense

0:49:09.920 --> 0:49:13.200
<v Speaker 1>of self and when you do that, you change the rules,

0:49:13.680 --> 0:49:18.360
<v Speaker 1>the structure of these relationships and the entire system. You

0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:21.839
<v Speaker 1>probably never thought of yourself as a rebel, but each

0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:25.600
<v Speaker 1>time you disengage or don't take the bait, that is

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:27.480
<v Speaker 1>exactly what you are