1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to reparations, the big payback, the production of Color 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: Farm Media, I Heart Radio and the Black Effect podcast network. 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm Erica, Alexander and I Whitney out. There's no reason 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: reparations what we are. The ones that were injured were solos, 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: were solos. Enslavement is stuff. The people who are owed 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: for slavery are no longer here. I want to check. 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: I don't think reparations is a good idea. Everyone should 8 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: be given the damage that was done to their family 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: cash payment. I don't want no government and though reparations 10 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: should be welcomed by all, some folks may want checks, 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: but what we're really talking about is closing that wealth 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: gap and making people whole. Let me tell you justice. 13 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: It's just uh. Here we are on the corner of 14 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: Wall and Broad Street, one of the most like famous 15 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: corners in America. Right, it's the seat of capitalism. We're 16 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: standing at the feet of George Washington, founder of our country, 17 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: who's looking across Wall Street at the New York Stock Exchange. 18 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: It this is it. It's smaller than I thought. It 19 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: looks more impressive than pictures. I was doing a little 20 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: research before we came down here. Erica, and you know 21 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: the value of the company's contained in the New York 22 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: stock has changes over thirty trillion dollars. That's ten trillion 23 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: dollars more than the nation's GDP every year thirty Amazon, 24 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: and the value and the amount of trading that is 25 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: done every day about of money that passes through there 26 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: is I think, over a hundred and sixty billion dollars 27 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: every day. When you think of Wall Street, what do 28 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: you think of I think of this. I mean, it's 29 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: a little a lot of stone. There's all these really 30 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: beautiful polished bronze doors with sparkling glass and a lot 31 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: of really decorative iron work around, and it's kind of 32 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: telling everybody, well, if you're a white man, you can 33 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: come in, but everybody else stay out. Meant to intimidate, 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: and it does. It's not only intimidating to New Yorkers, 35 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: but I think it's meant to be intimidating to the world. 36 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: What I didn't realize is that directly across the street 37 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: is Federal Halls. Walk up there a little bit America. 38 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: We're standing in front of Federal Hall Memorial and that's 39 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: another Gothic building, and out in front of it, there's 40 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: a statue of George Washington, and it really struck me 41 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: when I saw us. Here's the founder of our country, 42 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: and he's looking across the street at the stock exchange 43 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: age as if he's looking at the capitalist foundation of 44 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: the country. But this is where he took the oath 45 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: of office upstairs in this building. Wow, they really did 46 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: a nice job on the bronze work near his crutch, 47 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: and it matters because you're looking up at him and 48 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: you're meant to see his penis first and then go 49 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: up to his face and follow his eyes to the 50 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: stock exchange. At least that's not what I see at 51 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: our back is George Washington. If we look to our right, 52 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: we can see Trinity Church, the oldest church I think's 53 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: one of those churches in the country, all these church 54 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: in New York. If you look across the street directly 55 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: in front of us as a stock exchange, and then 56 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: if you look down the street to the water, do 57 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: you know what's down that street The location of New 58 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: York's first slave market that was founded in seventeen eleven. 59 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: So if we're should have like the four points of 60 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: the compass in America, we have politics, money, religion, slavery. 61 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: That sounds right. Black people will always make up the 62 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: four points. And in fact, none of these things could exist, 63 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: these politics, that religion, or that money without slavery. And 64 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: that's the unfortunate part. For them to have white freedom 65 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: and white success, they needed black bodies. You know, when 66 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: I met you, Whitney, I had no idea that I 67 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: would be stuck with you for this long. We've been 68 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: talking about reparations for two years. It's only been two 69 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: years for us, but it's been a hundred and fifty 70 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: years for our country. Did you ever imagine yourself making 71 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: a project about reparations with a guy named Whitney Burton 72 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: Dow from the colony of Cambridge, Massachusetts, Like you often 73 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: point out a look the drawing of a wasp or 74 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: a colonist. Well, yeah, I guess if you come from Cambridge, 75 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: Massachusetts in your name Mats Whitney Burton Dow, you look 76 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: a little whitish. So yeah, but who better than you 77 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: represent for your people if you're talking about white people, Yes, yes, 78 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: white people. Yeah, you're the guy white people in America. 79 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: That's you. Well, Hams Hollywood, you know you're no pauper. 80 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: I've seen your house. If you did, you wouldn't be 81 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: saying that I need reparations just as much as anybody. 82 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: I am no Cambridge Whitney Dow and I didn't just 83 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: pop into people's movie screens and on stages and in 84 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: theaters all over the world. I have an origin story. 85 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: We all have origin stories, and origin stories are how 86 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: you live. They don't hopefully determine who you are. It's 87 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: about the stories we tell ourselves, and I guess story 88 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: shape our present reality, and I think that's where every 89 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: story starts. Every good story is between reality and myth, Like, 90 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 1: what's possible telling the truth? Well, you're setting a pretty 91 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: high bar that you and I are going to get 92 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: to the truth. Everybody loves different truths, and I think 93 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: your truth is mixed with a lot of lies. Thanks 94 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: for that. Are you talking about me personally, Erica, or 95 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: collectively as the white guy here? Both reparations. It's a 96 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: complicated issue, and I'm not sure if I'm the right 97 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: person to tell the story with you, Erica. Yeah, I 98 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: might be too white. Well I'm extra black, I'm extra 99 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: crispy black. Does that offset some of my whiteness? Is 100 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: that what you're saying no, No, you're white. You white, 101 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: you gotta live with it, any of my problem. I'm 102 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: gonna coattail on your blackness here. By the way, this 103 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: is a conversation. If we're going to go on this 104 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: journey about reparations, it ain't about you. Know, you would 105 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: say it is about you, But I'm Harry, it's child 106 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: you hear me. I'm here to rescue my people. And 107 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: the last time I checked, we just got a new 108 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: black woman VP. So right now I'm feeling like, ain't 109 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: nothing too big for me? And if not you Whitney, 110 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: then who step up? If we're gonna do this, We've 111 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: got to make a plan. We gotta find experts. We 112 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: gotta you know, find people who actually know what they're 113 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: talking about. Just goose your eyes and make a wish 114 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: count to three. Yeah, that's come on, that's Sheila Jackson Lee. 115 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: That's Congressional hearing on hrd. America is a place and 116 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: welcomes the diversity of thought. We even welcome the diversity 117 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: of thought among the multi colored chocolate people that are 118 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: African Americans. Did you hear that multi colored chocolate? Do 119 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: you see how she got down old old girl as 120 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: a warrior if we were to pay reparations today, we 121 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: would only divide the country further about to turn on 122 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: him like Mr Colored Purpose. Reparations by definition, are only 123 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: given to victims. Victims had no consent. What you're supposed 124 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: to say? I give you permission to rid Maddin me 125 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: massa who here comes down? Mr Wakanda buck up. We 126 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: recognize our lineage as a generational trust as inheritance, and 127 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: the real dilemma posed by reparations is just that, a 128 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: dilemma of inheritance. Yep, that's what's happening in d C. 129 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: I guess that's why HR forty, a built to discuss reparations, 130 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: has been stuck in committee for thirty years. Meanwhile, on 131 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: these mean streets here we are out here, man, it's crazy. 132 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: The remnants of this history is all around us. Oh snap, 133 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: the New York's Municipal slave market. There's a sign here 134 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: are we less than two feet across and just over 135 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: one ft high. It's drawing on it and has a 136 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: green New York Parks emblement. It says our Wall Street 137 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: between Pearl and Water Streets and market that auction enslave 138 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: people of African ancestry is established by a Common Council 139 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: law on November thirtieth, sev eleven. This is the New 140 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: York's municipal slave market sign. But you can look up 141 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: from this site and see Trinity Church, and you can 142 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: see the New York Stock Exchange and the foundation of 143 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: it all. American slavery gets a two by two plaque. 144 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: You know, I've been here before, but this is the 145 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: first time I'm seeing this. Some I'm a little piste off. 146 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: I don't know why it's not more prominent. I don't 147 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: know why it's just a sign. Look, there's a big 148 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: old statue George Washington over there. Big buildings that we 149 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: talked about with stones look like it should be here, 150 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: and this looked like it'd be. It could be knocked 151 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: over by a hard wind. How does it make you 152 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: feel thinking about all this? You're visibly upset, You're shaking, 153 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: you know much shaking. I'm upset. I mean, I really 154 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: wish I could rip that sucker out. It's not even 155 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: worth it being there. And then also I'm kind of 156 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: mad because I have been here before, I didn't see it. 157 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: There are people walking through, their immigrants, got their children, 158 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: they've got all their families, They should be able to 159 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: see it. There should be the stain of it in 160 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: New Yorkers should have to live with it, they should 161 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: have to learn about it, they should be confronted with it. 162 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: I want them to really acknowledge slavery. I want them 163 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: to give us justice. Black people want justice. We deserve it. 164 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: We should have it by any means necessary. And part 165 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: of that justice is that you should not be able 166 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: to come and walk by a slave market marker and 167 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: not be moved by it, or at least have to 168 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: reckon with it or see it. That was so brutal. 169 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: Being there with you, Erica, someone who I care about, 170 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: and seeing the vistal reaction, the pain that it caused 171 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: you to be there, it left me feeling kind of helpless. 172 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: And I know that if I've been alone, if I 173 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: had been there by myself, I would have find some 174 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,599 Speaker 1: way to push myself away from it and the absurdity 175 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: of it and just kind of intellectualize it. Where being 176 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: there with you forced me to own it a bit. 177 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: But that's my problem, not yours. It is your problem 178 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: and black people's burden to bear. I mean, we gave 179 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: you money and paid the big on your loan. Who 180 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: needs bootstraps when they've got friends like you, Whitney. That's 181 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: what I mean earlier when I said your truth is 182 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: filled with a lot of lies. These realities, they show 183 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: it for me every day. Meanwhile, you're underwater thinking your 184 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: real estate has value. What I'm thinking about is solutions. 185 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: And I really believe the only way towards a true 186 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: reconciliation is to create a funded reparations program. And white 187 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: Americans you have to decide if they want to rise 188 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: with Black Americans or fall with them. I see you, 189 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: Whitney down you're doing something. I mean, you're here, you're 190 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: working on it, you're talking about it. But don't expect 191 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: the parade or props are shown up to clean up 192 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: the mess you've made. Yeah, it is a big mess. 193 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: And Erica, you've told me in the past that you 194 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: feel like James Baldwin or Tattenhassi Coates has said that 195 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: you don't really believe, you don't really have faith that 196 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: white people of the ability to change. And I totally 197 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: understand that if I were black, I imagine I would 198 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: feel the exact same way, and especially looking at the 199 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: events the last you know, a few weeks and we've 200 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: had three or four thousand white people storming the Capitol 201 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: and it looks horrible. Those images were just like atrocious. 202 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: But at the same time, we've also had millions of 203 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: white people in the street marching alongside black and brown 204 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: people protesting police violence. So that does make me a 205 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: little optimistic. I hope it doesn't sound corny that I 206 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: do believe we can change, right, Maybe I feel like 207 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: I kind of have to believe we can change. Like 208 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: in Evanston, Illinois, things are changing. I've known his reparation 209 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: robbin and rolls of parks now, so that's different. How 210 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: about that she's a rock star. Four hundred years after 211 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: the first enslaved Africans got off the boat, Alderman Robin 212 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: Ruth Simmons passes the first reparations bill in America. Oh Man, 213 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: talk about the long arc. We gotta keep an eye 214 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: on her. We will. But I want to show you 215 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: something first. So Erica, tell me what do you see here? 216 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: What are we? What were you walking up to? Oh? 217 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: We're Duyne in Elk Street and it says African burial 218 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: ground a way. So they're building a federal building at 219 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: two hundred fifty six million dollar building and when they 220 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: broke ground on they discovered this burial ground. What does 221 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: this say here? Changing landscape obscures the past. The African 222 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: burial ground was labeled Negroes Burial Ground on the seventeen 223 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: fifty five map at right. Colonial New York laws banned 224 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: African funerals and officially consecrated graveyards, prohibited gatherings of large 225 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: numbers of enslaved Africans, and decreed that funerals had to 226 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: be held during daylight. Nonetheless, Africans and their descendants held 227 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: burial ceremonies in a cemetery outside the city wall, near 228 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: a ravine. As New York City expanded northeast, the burial 229 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: ground was closed in seventeen nine and eventually divided into 230 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: lots for sale. The land was filled in and buildings 231 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: were constructed on top. For almost two centuries. New York 232 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: City's growth obscured the graves and the African burial ground 233 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: was nearly forgotten. So we tried to put a Starbucks 234 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: on it. It's a metaphor, right, The foundation is African 235 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: Americans Americans both on top of it. They turned their 236 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: barrel ground into real estate, but that foundation wasn't paid 237 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: for it was paid for in blood, guts and suffering. 238 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: I think of the people buried here were children. So 239 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: we talk about reparations for work and value created, but 240 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: what about reparations for all the people that were destroyed 241 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: by it? It as children, the people who actually never 242 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: had a life. So this is showing the levels of 243 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: different centuries and what they built on top of those coffins. 244 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: It's a diagram. We're ground level, right, Yeah, we're ground level. 245 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: So the on top there's three different centuries. In the 246 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: lowest right, or at least, is the seventeen hundreds. People 247 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: were buried in individual coffins up to three deep. But 248 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: that looks exactly like the slave ship diagrams coming across. 249 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: That's interesting from Africa. So they went out like they 250 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: came in. That's a cold, cold thought. Let's walk up 251 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: to the next marker. This one is says Africans in 252 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: early New York before the American Revolution, York had more 253 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: enslaved Africans. It's most valuable commodity than any other colony 254 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: in the North. You're leaving out the most important thing here. 255 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: It's not that these people were just here, they say, 256 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: and they give an account of their work. Women sewed, 257 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: cooked harvests, didn't care for owners children. Labors tore up 258 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: cobblestone streets, dug trenches late and joined the pipe sections, 259 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: and filled in the trenches. Pay one dollar a day 260 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: in slave workers wages went to their owners. That's real, 261 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: and you know the real One of the reasons why 262 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: the slave market was established down on Wall Street was 263 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: because there were so many enslaved Africans here and the 264 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: actual way the labor pool was structured wasn't really structured. 265 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: There to sending people out in the street to like 266 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: earn money, and they wanted to sort of like codify 267 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: into something more structural. By the way, this whole thing 268 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: is about white fear. Yeah, you should be fucking afraid 269 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: because if we ever get what we deserve and if 270 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: we ever start to balance those books, there ain't no 271 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: stopping us, and it's over. It's not just the rebrowning 272 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: of America, it's the black nation coming into its own. 273 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, they try to bury us too black, too strong. 274 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: From eighteen nineties and estimated fifteen thousand enslaved in free 275 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: Africans were laid to rest in African fifteen thousand bodies 276 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: are here seven burial mounds mark the locations of the 277 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: re internments. Here. They are over here, So this is it. 278 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: Look at the mounds here. Oh my god. Now to me, 279 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: this is significant. My god, look at that. What does 280 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: it make you feel to stand here and look at this? Well, 281 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: I'm very proud. I'm glad to see them. And I 282 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: don't know I gained comfort from them being here. I'd 283 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: come out here and eat my lunch with them. What 284 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: do you think? It's funny because you know, you look 285 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: over at the stone and it's all representational. This is 286 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: so much more concrete. These are real burial mounds. And 287 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: knowing that the remains lie underneath it, and knowing that 288 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: they're aligned in a certain way with their heads facing Africa. 289 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: I think it's beautiful. It's beautiful and they shall rise again. 290 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: Oh hey, you know they give tours of this stuff. 291 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: M Black Gotham, thirty books, Totally worth it. Definitely buy 292 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: several tickets. I gotta take my mom and show her 293 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: all these hidden gyms, because she's the greeno in the family. 294 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: Oh man, it's a shame because no matter how hard 295 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: she worked with me, it wasn't enough, and she won't 296 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: live to see a new world that's created through the 297 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: application of reparations. So like the Africans, underneath those buildings, 298 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: it's going to be beyond her flesh and bone. But 299 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: that means it's fertile ground. It's very fertile. My mother's 300 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: in it. It's blessed and highly favored. What really strikes 301 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: me about it, Eric because that it's called the African 302 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: burial ground. But it's not just African history. It's white 303 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: history too, and it's history that's layered across generations. And 304 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: it's not just about what happened before it happened hundreds 305 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: of years ago. You can also see in it how 306 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: it's impacted what's happening today and how you and I 307 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: how our own families are living within the legacy of slavery. Yeah, no, 308 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: I get it. I mean my brother is a Philly 309 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: copp and my sister is a social worker, and they 310 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: worked within the racist system that we're talking about every day. 311 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: You know, that's how they make their living. And the 312 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: weird part is if systematic reformation is needed and reparations 313 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: is part of the cure, we have to get ready 314 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: because there's a whole lot of black folks that are 315 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: baked into the current architecture and they ain't gonna get out. So, 316 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a rough ride. It would disrupt everything. 317 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: So we got to be careful what we wish for first, 318 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: do no harm. Maybe we need to step out of 319 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: our current reality from all Reven Barber says that we're 320 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: in the third reconstruction. So Whitney, this is our opportunity 321 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: to map out a blueprint, to chart a new destiny, 322 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: to decide who our builders are. Our architects are machinists. 323 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: You would probably need a few arsonists. We're gonna have 324 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: to tear some things down along the way. But first 325 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: we need vision. Imagination, you mean a reimagination. That's a 326 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: little change. Oh, it's amazing what a good composition can 327 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: do to carry us away. Okay, I'm ready. I think. Well, 328 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: let's be real. You always feel your best at the 329 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: beginning of the marathon. I hope, I'm ready, Yeah, I hope. 330 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: I bought a black power bar this season on Reparations, 331 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: the Big Payback. I didn't have a lot of skills. 332 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: I was a bad student. That was kind of this 333 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: histof Charlie got thrown out of schools. I was always 334 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: getting good fights. So that's why you got into race work, 335 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: because you were a mediocre white man anywhere anywhere, exactly 336 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: what you're saying. I failed everywhere else, So race took 337 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: me in it. I made a career out of it 338 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: because that's what we needed. This business. We need to 339 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: rejects awesome. Look, we have to define reparations. Some people 340 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: want to define reparations as a give me a check. 341 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: That's not reparations. They treat us like animals more or 342 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: less than like human beings. And we are the ones 343 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: who lost our lives building this country and got paid 344 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: not one dime for it. But everybody else is reaping 345 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: the benefits. That's album money. My life revolves primarily around 346 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: my discovery that my ancestors were the largest slave trading 347 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: family in US history. When I looked at you, Wikipedia, 348 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: my god brother, you're not playing you like the John 349 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: Lewis of the Aristocrats, the inspiration for me and reparations. 350 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: I know that the injustice and the discrimination in the 351 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: racism is a shared problem, but which has to be 352 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: confronted if we're gonna move on successfully together. My life 353 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: would have been any different if I was black, because 354 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: it's the core of who you are. Everyone has a burden. 355 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: It's how you handle the burden, and so I truly 356 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: don't feel that there was a privilege. Absolutely not. Mom. 357 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: What happened was we were standing in there and suddenly 358 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: the window shatters. The policeman told me that he was 359 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: trying to kill some blackbirds, meaning my children, who were 360 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: standing at the window at and not been for a 361 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: double pain windows, probably I would have that morning lost 362 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: two of my children. If I had enough money to 363 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: ease the disparities and enough programs directed run by black 364 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: people to help us, then I would even be willing 365 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: not to have Chambel Harris Speed Vice President. What goes 366 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: on your playlist? The reparations playlist? Well, what I play 367 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: for my students at the end of the semester is 368 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: um when will we get paid? This podcast is produced 369 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: by Eric Alexander, Dan Arnon and Whitney daw The executive 370 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: producers are Charlomagne the God and Dolly s. Bishop, The 371 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: supervising producers Nicole Childers and the lead producers Devin Madock Robins, 372 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: the producer writer Serres Castle, and the associate producers Kevin 373 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: fan With additional research support provided by Nile Blast original 374 00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: music by dj d t P Reparations. The Big Payback 375 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: is a production of color Farm Media, I Heart Radio, 376 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: and The Black Effect Podcast Network in association with Best 377 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: Case Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 378 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 379 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.