1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power Collie 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Emily Jay i'me Emily Chang in San Francisco, and this 4 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up the next hour. Early results 5 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,319 Speaker 1: from third party shows Amazon's latest prime day not much 6 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: better than any other day, Amazon saying not so fast. 7 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: Our conversation with a prime executive is coming up. Plus 8 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: Gray Scale collapse back at the SEC after rejecting a 9 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: Bitcoin e t F, I'll speak with CEO Michael Sonenshein 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: about their legal challenge and ongoing friction between Gary Gensler 11 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: and the crypto community. Plus Andrew Yang joins us to 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: talk about the state of tech entrepreneur ship in a downturn, 13 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: plus his outlook for president Meantime, this week's Bloomberg Business 14 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: Week cover story focuses on the roller coaster ride that 15 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: has been the Musk Twitter deal. Kurt Wagner writes that 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: for Twitter, there are no good outcomes, no matter what 17 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: path a deal with Elan takes. Musk has publicly trashed 18 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: Twitter's top management and alienated thousands of its employees. Vowed 19 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: to slash rules that were put in place after misinformation 20 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: threatened election integrity and wants to make Twitter the everything app, 21 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: but hasn't really explained what that means. Here to discuss 22 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner. So the headline, Kurt is that Twitter 23 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: faces only bad outcomes if this still closes, why do 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: you say so? Yeah? Well, remember, Emily, there's there's two 25 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: options here. One, uh, you know, the deal falls apart, 26 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: and this stock that has been sort of artificially inflated 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: is going to crash um. Employees who have sent the 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: last six to nine months, you know, just in this 29 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: total state of certainty, are gonna have to pick up 30 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: and pretend like, you know, nothing ever happened. Or if 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: if things go the way Twitter wants, then they get 32 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the guy in charge, who, you know, for the last 33 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: three months has been saying that Twitter has been lying 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: about its user base and it's, uh, you know, it 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have the right business model and all these things right, 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: So it's just sort of like it feels to me 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: that there's not really a lot of good outcomes here. Now. 38 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: I got a lot of fan mail after this story 39 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: came today, Emily for people who disagreed that they think 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, the free speech uh kind of vision unmust 41 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: keeps talking about is going to make Twitter a much 42 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: better place very shortly. But you know, even that, I 43 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: would probably argue is going to create a lot of 44 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: other headaches for for this platform very soon. Well, and look, 45 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: Musk does have millions and millions of fans, so that's 46 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: certainly not you know, out of the question that you know, 47 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: some folks are are going to be very happy if 48 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: this deal gets done that side. You use the words 49 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: very shortly there, and I'm curious, say, say the deal 50 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: does get done before October, could Elon must make significant 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: changes to the platform before the midterm elections before November eight? 52 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the deal is supposed to close by, right, 53 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: and so to me that means that Elon Musk would 54 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: be in charge, and therefore are they going to be 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: able to, you know, bring President Tromp back on the 56 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: Twitter within the next week like possibly it is possible. 57 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: But how much of an impact is that going to have? 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: I don't really know, right, but I do think that 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: there could be changes to some of these policies. They 60 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: could say, Hey, all the folks who have been looking 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: for misinformation or hate speech or voter misinformation, stand down, 62 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: don't don't bother, don't do your job, and all of 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, we could have a very different 64 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: level of content on the platform very soon. What's the 65 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: latest negotiations between the two parties. What are they actually 66 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: talking about right now? Yeah, I mean there has been 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: some stuff that we have reported at Bloomberg that, you know, 68 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: despite the fact that both sides want the same deal price, 69 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: there have been some hang ups, right is specifically that 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, it sounds like Elon Musk wants to reserve 71 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: his right to possibly sue some of these executives, wants 72 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: to deal closes to go after you know, maybe people 73 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: kind of personally UM as a way to say, hey, 74 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: you've been misleading investors and misleading me, the potential buyer 75 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: this whole time. Right. Twitter of course doesn't want to 76 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: to have that in there. They're also worried about this 77 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: debt contingency that Ellen had to add to um, you know, 78 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: the negotiations. So I imagine at this point both sides 79 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: are trying to iron through those types of details, right, 80 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: I mean, they claim they want the same price. I 81 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: think the debt is is for the most part locked 82 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: up and so you think, like, Okay, they're really at 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: the end here where they're kind of going over those 84 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: those very minute elements of a deal. All right, Kurt Wagner, 85 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: thanks for keeping us updated as always, and check out 86 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: that story in the latest edition of Bloomberg Business Week. 87 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: This week's Amazon Prime flash sale may not be all 88 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: it's chopped up to be. Third party researchers are saying 89 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: the Prime Day sales generating the same traffic as any 90 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: regular day. Bloomberg's Had Ludlow asked Jamil Ghani, Amazon's head 91 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: of Prime about the data. Here's how he responded, I 92 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: don't know if that's the accurate read. We've been really 93 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: impressed with how many Prime members are showing up, how 94 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: they're engaging with the event, and how they're shopping. They're 95 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: shopping the entire store. Some of the favorite categories so 96 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: far are electronics, toys, home apparel, health and personal care, 97 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: top brands like Apple, lenej HP, Shark, and many many others, 98 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: including items off our curated top one hundred lists. So 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: we've been really really happy with the event so far. 100 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: Our members can engage through midnight tonight, so I encourage 101 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: them to check it out. What is Amazon tracking to 102 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: do for this October window in dollar turns relative to July. 103 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: Can you give us some granularity about the impacts of 104 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: having a second window in the same calendar year. Yeah, 105 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: we have to keep in mind that Prime Day this 106 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: year was the largest Prime Day we've ever had, one 107 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: point seven billion dollars in savings for our members around 108 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: the globe. And so what we're trying to do with 109 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: this event is give our Prime members yet another opportunity 110 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: to say, we know that our members are always looking 111 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: for savings, but no more sort than now where you know, 112 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: the macro economic environment um has everybody trying to make 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: the dollar stretch a little bit further. And so this 114 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: is an opportunity for forty eight hours for our members 115 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: to get an exclusive jump on their holiday shopping, its 116 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: needs and wants across the entire store. And so far 117 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: the engagement has been really strong. So it's too early 118 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: to tell, but I expect that there will be deals 119 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: throughout the event. That's something that we learned in Prime 120 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: Day that our members like top brands and they like 121 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: having deals throughout the entire event. You're going to continue 122 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: to see that through midnight tonight. So this window will 123 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: not be as big as the July window. It's too 124 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: early to tell, but we're very excited by the early 125 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: engagement um and it is the kickoff to uh the 126 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: entire holiday season. We're gonna have deals and discounts throughout 127 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: the entire period. Black Friday Cyber Monday continue to be 128 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: incredibly important, but we wanted to take care of our 129 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: most engaged, are most important customers first, those are our 130 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: Prime members, and so this is the kickoff to the season. 131 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: That is interesting, right, the idea around the pool forward 132 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: in holiday spending. He told me about how that might 133 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: help clear out some inventories ahead of the holiday season. Yeah, 134 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, this event is not about inventory. This we 135 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: built this event purpose built on the top brands that 136 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: are members we know are looking for as they go 137 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: into the shopping season. And so this is an exclusive 138 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: for eight hours for our Prime members to get a 139 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: jump on their holiday shopping, ensure that they get those 140 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: must have giftable items, get some of the holiday rush 141 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: out of the way earlier in the season. But we're 142 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: going to continue the deals and discounts for all of 143 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: our customer including Prime members, going into Black Friday and 144 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: Cyber Monday. You alluded to it earlier, but what are 145 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: you learning about the consumer based on what they're buying. 146 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: It seems through third party data they might be going 147 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: for this sort of cheaper ended the spectrum in terms 148 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: of the items they're buying. Is there any sense that 149 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: the consumer is feeling the pain of inflation. Well, I 150 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: think all of us as Americans are feeling the pinch 151 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: of inflation. Um, all of us want to stretch our 152 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: dollar as far as we can. What we saw in 153 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: Prime Day is that members engaged across all um sales prices, 154 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: from consumables and everyday essentials all the way up through 155 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: the electronic devices. It's needs through wants, and that's why 156 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: we built Prime Early Access sale to have the top 157 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: brands across the entire store so that members can meet 158 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: those needs and wants. We've got top brands in health 159 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: and personal care all the way to toys, to home 160 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: apparel and electronics, which are you know, uh, clearly a 161 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: member ever every holiday season and so we're seeing the 162 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: same in engagement now. We expect that to continue over 163 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: the next several hours through midnight tonight. Amazon's head of 164 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: Prime there Jamil Ghani, with our own at Ludlow For 165 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: more on this, I want to bring in our Bloomberg 166 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: reporter Spencer, So we're who of course covers Amazon. So Spencer, 167 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about a potential disparity here and what the 168 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: third party folks are saying and what Amazon is saying. 169 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Just how good has this prime day actually been so far? Yeah? 170 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: I think it's uh, what we're hearing is that there's, 171 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: you know, slight lift from a usual day. Now we're 172 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: getting summer biased data from what we had earlier. You know, 173 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: some uh you know deep a deeper look slight lift 174 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: from from a typical day, but not nearly the same 175 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: amount of lift as they had in the summer prime day. 176 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure that we're that far off. I mean, 177 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: if you listen carefully to what the Amazon executive says, 178 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: he uses words like shop, and he uses words like engagement, 179 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: and so he doesn't use words like by and he 180 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: doesn't use words like spend, you know, so so engagement 181 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: can be just a cute way to say people. People 182 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: are coming on the site, they're noodling around, they're looking 183 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: at this, that and the other, but they're not really 184 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: buying a whole lot. So What does this tell us 185 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: about the state of the consumer potentially more broadly leading 186 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: into the holidays, or doesn't tell us something more about Amazon? Well, 187 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: I think it's a little of both, right. I Mean, 188 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: it's not a secret that that consumers are pulling back, 189 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: that they're dealing with higher food and fuel prices, things 190 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: that they have to buy and have less money you know, 191 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: to spend on things that they want to buy. And 192 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: then on Amazon, we're learning like on these kind of things. 193 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: Some of the top categories are like household essentials and 194 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: pantry items and things people just kind of spending the 195 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: stock up on things that otherwise buy and not necessarily 196 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: splurging on things like electronics and whatnot. But then in 197 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: terms of Amazon, is just they figured, hey, what the heck, 198 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: will do another sale? And it was interesting he said 199 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: it wasn't about inventory when it What it is about inventory. 200 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: That's really why Amazon was able to spin this thing 201 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: up so quickly, is because a lot of merchants, you know, 202 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: the inventory is already there they have. Meantime, there's been 203 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: some developments in unionization efforts at an Amazon warehouse in California. 204 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: What's the latest on that. Yeah, this is pretty interesting 205 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: to watch. So there's a one warehouse in Morino Valley 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: in the Inland Empire, and that's a real stronghold for Amazon. 207 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: That's that's probably where they where they've got the most 208 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: concentrated number of facilities and employees. And so one of 209 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: them just submitted signatures to push for a union election 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: affiliated with this Amazon labor union, which was the one 211 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: that uh, you know, one approval for union in in 212 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: Saten Island, which Amazon is still contesting. And now there's 213 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: another vote coming up next week in Albany, again affiliate 214 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: with this Amazon labor union. So starting to look like 215 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: this thing's spreading and and and Amazon is having a 216 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: hard time containing it all right. Sponsor Soaper who covers 217 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Amazon for us, thank you. Coming up weeks after the 218 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: massive Adobe figmdial, the other hot enterprise software startup has 219 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: some news. Air Table CEO Howe lou is with us next. 220 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg, the collaboration software startup. Air Table just 221 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: announced its biggest launch of the year at its inaugural 222 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: air Table Leaders Forum, coming up with a new connected 223 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: apps platform that will help companies like Netflix, linked In, 224 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: and i heart Media share data, manage workflows, track product 225 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: roadmaps and more. Co founder and CEO, Howelu with me 226 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: now for more on this, So, you know, talk to 227 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: us about the trends that you're seeing an enterprise software 228 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: and why an announcement like this in your mind is important, 229 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: Like what problems does this solve? I mean, I think 230 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: it's best to explain it in terms of where we 231 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: came from and where we're going. So ten years ago, 232 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: Marke and Reeson said software is eating the world. We 233 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: created air Table really to kind of execute against that 234 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: and empower the team's closest to the work in every 235 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: company to be part of that disruption, to build the 236 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: apps for themselves that they needed. Now we've seen this 237 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: bigger problem within enterprises where it's not enough to just 238 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: have individual apps, but those apps need to be connected 239 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: and to allow the entire enterprise to all share a 240 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: source of truth while enabling all those individual teams to 241 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: still be really, really flexible and agile. So it's kind 242 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: of the next frontier of air Table, you know, combining 243 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: what we've already done literally in these connected apps across 244 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: an enterprise. Air Table benefited from some of those pandemic 245 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: tail winds, the shift to hybrid work has that kept up? 246 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: What sort of workplace trends are you seeing now? I 247 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: think a lot of what we're seeing now is that 248 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: there is this huge need to rethink how work is 249 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: being done right, especially in today's economy. It's not just 250 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: about throwing more people at every problem. You can't just 251 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, double your your head count and every department 252 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: to get more output. You need to rethink how efficiently 253 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: you work. And that's where I think our our enterprise 254 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: vision of connected apps is really going to come into plan. 255 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: It's already showing up. And how we sell our table, 256 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: how we're seeing our our customers adopt air table. It's 257 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: really about enabling more agility and more output. Um. You know, 258 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: we talked about this this customer case study during our 259 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: event earlier today of Equinox actually accelerating their content production 260 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: efforts by four with the same team and during a 261 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: pandemic where they were all working from home, nonetheless using 262 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: air table and connected apps. How do you see competition 263 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: shaping up? There's a Sauna, Monday, dot Com others that 264 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: are vying to be the project management tool of choice. 265 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: What is air tables advantage? Yeah, I think the whole 266 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: idea behind declaring our north star as connected apps is 267 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: that we're actually elevating ourselves out of that world of 268 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: project management. We actually don't really care as much about 269 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: the task management small team use cases that I think 270 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the other products are are going after, 271 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: and instead we're really trying to solve this bigger problem 272 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: across an entire enterprise where you need these shared sources 273 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: of truth, these high value golden data sets as we 274 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: call them. You know, for instance, Netflix having this this 275 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: master list of all the content titles they're producing and 276 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: then wanting to manage all of their marketing, their post production, 277 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: their legal rights management, etcetera. Workflows across that data set. UM. 278 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: And so it's really you know, us going out and 279 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: taking on more companies like service Now or even Salesforce 280 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: with their app cloud efforts. UM. When we think about 281 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: going and deploying apps across every other part of the enterprise, 282 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: not just doing projects or tasks. I think some people 283 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: are still recovering from the shock of the big Adobe 284 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: Figma deal twenty billion dollars, and I just I'm dying 285 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on it. Given that air table 286 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: is one of the few you know hot enterprise software 287 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: startups that's often mentioned in the same breath as Figma. 288 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: What's your take on this deal. I think Figma is 289 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: an incredible product company, has a great team. Um you know, 290 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: they started around the same time as us, so weirdly 291 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: we've been parallel. I think we both started around both 292 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: spent years building a pretty technically interesting product before launching. 293 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: These were not products air Table nor Figma that were 294 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: built overnight as a hack project, but really a deliberate 295 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: taking on of a really, really large market opportunity. I 296 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: think ultimately the trend that's really benefited both of us 297 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: is that for the first time on the web, when 298 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: both of us started, you could build these really rich 299 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: desktop grade experiences, right Sigma could not have been built. 300 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: You couldn't build that level of experience in the web, 301 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: nor could you build air Table in the web. And 302 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: so I think we're both bright place right time to 303 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: take on really large market opportunities and disrupting some incumbents 304 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: as a result. Is getting acquired like that something that's 305 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: attractive to you. Are you on the I P O path? Instead? 306 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: I think that the best companies have to think about 307 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: how to build an independent business, right I mean, when 308 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: you look at Figma, one of the reasons why it 309 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: was so attractive as a business and why it's valued 310 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: so much in this steal is because actually they could 311 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: go to Long alone. They have the leverage. I mean, 312 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: it's it's growing very quickly, it's an amazing business, there's 313 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: a massive tam and it's truly a disruptive and delightful product, 314 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: right And so I think if you can go out 315 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: and build a company that is truly capable of being 316 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: a star in a star independent business on the I 317 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: P O path, then I think that also raises your attractiveness, 318 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: in this case for Figma, through M and a deal. 319 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: So we've always been squarely focused on just building the 320 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: best product and ultimately business and company that we can 321 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: and you know, we're not optimizing foreign acquisition. So we've 322 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: seen valuations of tech startups fall across the board. You 323 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: raised at an almost twelve billion dollar valuation at the 324 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: end of last year. Does that number hold up in 325 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: a downturn or is air table in the rare category 326 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: of startups like Figma potentially where that number potentially goes up. 327 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: So the way I've always thought about it is the 328 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: short term valuation is just it's a point in time. 329 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: And what really matters for both us as team members 330 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: working on this company, for shareholders who may consider investing 331 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: in our table is what is the long term expected 332 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: value of this business? And especially since we're private and 333 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: we don't have a public liquid value right now, what 334 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: do we think this company will be worth in one year, 335 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: two year, or three years, And especially as the operators 336 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: within the business, what can we do to drive towards 337 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: the best possible result? And so I think as we 338 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: push into connected apps and this bigger and bigger possibility, 339 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: you know, solving a problem for enterprises at large um 340 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: actually generating you know, multimillion dollar contracts repeatedly. Uh and 341 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: even you know, driving up are already best in class 342 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: left dollar retention. I think we feel very good about 343 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: the clear path that we can get to building a 344 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: really extraordinary business that's highly differentiated as the unit economics 345 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: to support a really freemium multiple. And you know, whether 346 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: there's overall multiple compression in the public markets in the 347 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: near term, you know, I think the great businesses that 348 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: ultimately go after really large hands and have durable growth 349 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,479 Speaker 1: potential can outgrow any of that compression because they just 350 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: keep growing and growing. All right, interesting, interesting response there, 351 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: Air Table co founder and CEO, Howelu, good to have 352 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: you back here on this show. Thank you for stopping by. 353 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Bloomer Technology and Emily Changing in San Francisco. 354 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: The global self and semi conductor shares continues, but one 355 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: name in Japan bucking the trend. Are all back with 356 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: a look at Socio next. Ed. Yeah, we don't often 357 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: talk about Japan, but let's look at Socio next in 358 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: the context of this big sell off we've seen in 359 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: global chip stocks. It had its trading debut in Japan 360 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: in Tokyo on Wednesday, jumping a lot of investor interest here, 361 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: generating around sixty seven billion yen or four hundred and 362 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: fifty six million dollars of proceeds. And what's so interesting 363 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: about this name. It's a maker of systems on a 364 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: chip or logic processes for one of A better description 365 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: is there's a lot of appetite right now for what 366 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: it's offering in a market where we have a lot 367 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: of questions about global chip demand. If we bring up 368 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: the next chart, this was actually the biggest I PO 369 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: in Japan, so far this year on a gross proceeds 370 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: generated basis. It was the four f p O for 371 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: a chip maker out of Japan this year. So it's 372 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: really interesting to see that name buck the trend. We're 373 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: also getting data points out of vander this Wednesday. They 374 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: actually see retail investors taking a keen interest in the 375 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: chip space, even if we see institutional money kind of 376 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: sitting on the sidelines or pulling out because we have 377 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: concerns about a global slowdown, and speaking about those concerns, 378 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: we look at this terminal chart. It investors are really 379 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: pulling back earnings expectations for the chip sector. We've had 380 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: bad news from a broad range of names. We're concerned 381 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: about a slowdown in demand for consumer electronics, for memory 382 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: chips in particular Aro and the PC market that scoop 383 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: overnight from Bloomberg. The Intel, according to sources, is going 384 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: to cut thousands of jobs because of the PC slowdown. Well, 385 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: this is the result the market pulling back its expectations. 386 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: But one name in Japan's socio next, as we said, 387 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: m bucking that trend. All right, ed, thank you a 388 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: name we don't normally hear about. Appreciate it. I want 389 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: to zoom out now of chip stocks and get back 390 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: to the broader macro environment with rising inflation and a 391 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: falling market. The state of valuations and venture capital and 392 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: startup innovation on top of mind. At the Greenwich Economic 393 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: Forum that is underway right now. Our next guest, entrepreneur 394 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: and former presidential Canada, Andrew Yang, joins us from there. Now, So, Andrew, obviously, 395 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: so much talk about what is going to happen with 396 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: this economy. Are we or are we not going into 397 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: a recession? Given your Venture for America background, I'm curious 398 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: what your outlook is if you are an entrepreneur trying 399 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: to get started in a downturn. Well, if you look 400 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: at the track record of high growth companies, Emily, and 401 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: you know this full well, most of the really meaningful 402 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: companies get started in a downturn like this one for 403 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: a host of reasons. The fact is that an enterprise 404 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: that succeeds in this time is going to be poised 405 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: to really mushroom as soon as the climate starts training 406 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: more positive. So I do think that this is going 407 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: to be a very very tough time, but guaranteed we're 408 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: going to see tons of meaningful firms come out of 409 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: this period. What's your sense of how this tough time 410 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: will compare to let's say, the financial crisis or even 411 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: the dot com bust. Is there's something different about it. No, 412 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: I think we have a ways to go on the 413 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: down slope myself. I mean, we can all see very 414 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: clearly that the Fed is going to be checking up 415 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: interest rates for the foreseeable and there are a lot 416 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: of valuations that don't make as much sense in that environment. 417 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: So we're we're going to all find out together how 418 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: this compares to some of the tough times of the past. 419 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: But I certainly think that, uh, folks should try and 420 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: keep some powder dry, you know, make sure that you 421 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: have enough cash to make it through for a little 422 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: bit longer than you might hope. San Francisco is one 423 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: city that's having a tough time recovering from the pandemic, 424 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: and now there's this downturn. You've got companies going remote, 425 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 1: You've got companies moving to Austin or a Miami. Do 426 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: you think this the center of innovation, that the fundamental 427 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: center of gravity is actually going to shift and become 428 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: more distributed or is it too early to say that? Now? 429 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: You and I both have friends who have decamped to 430 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: Austin or Miami, and I'm a big believer that innovation 431 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: and growth will follow wherever the talent goes. So if 432 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: you have people who have permanently settled in Austin, I 433 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: think you're going to see uh permanent shift truly. Um Now, 434 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: the Bay Area, in my view, still has the highest 435 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: concentration of tech talent, so it's still going to be 436 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: the envy of many other cities. But I do think 437 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: we're in a permanently different time where talent is going 438 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: to be more distributed, and because of that, you want 439 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: to see capital be more distributed, uh and growth companies 440 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: come out of places where they might not have otherwise. 441 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: Congress has been trying to rein in big tech, and 442 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: big tech has retaliated by spending a ton of money 443 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,479 Speaker 1: to kill one of the most aggressive oversight bills in years. 444 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: Your thought on on whether that bill potentially needs to 445 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: be revived and whether strong regulation is really needed. Oh, 446 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: it's interesting, Emily. The political climate has changed such that 447 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: tech now is a bit of a punching bag for 448 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: both parties. UM And I'm of the belief that there 449 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: have been some excesses that regulation would be appropriate for 450 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: and a lot is going to hinge upon what the 451 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: political climate is after these mid terms. Right now, the 452 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: Senate is toss up. By most accounts, Republicans are slightly 453 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: favored in the House, and I think that might change 454 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: the prospects of some of the bills that we're talking about. 455 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: You've been very vocal about data collection. You launch the 456 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: Data Dividend products to help Americans take control of your data. 457 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: How are you feeling about how tech companies are handling 458 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: that data right now and especially going in to an 459 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot action. Uh, you know, it's it's fascinating, Emily, 460 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: As you know, I I championed the c p r 461 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: A and data privacy UH regulations in California, where you are, 462 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: And because California is now set a higher bar, UH, 463 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: national legislation is increasingly likely and on the table in 464 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: part because tech companies wanted to supplant and replace the 465 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: rules in California. Our data is being used not to 466 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: our benefit. It's uh two hundred billion dollar plus a 467 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: year industry. It's eroding our democracy, our kids, mental health. UM. 468 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: So I'm someone who thinks that we should own our 469 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: data UH and not only have it used more to 470 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: our benefit. But if there is going to be market 471 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: value game, but we should join in that benefit. UM. 472 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: So that that's where I'd like the national approach to go. 473 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: Europe has new rules that are coming online in which 474 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: is right around the corner, and I think that's going 475 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: to increase pressure on the States to have a more 476 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: modernized approach. You've been branching out into crypto and Web three, 477 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: and I'm curious what role or how much of a 478 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: role you think crypto will play in fundraising going into 479 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: and if you think Democrats or Republicans have more of 480 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: an advantage. No, I think the single biggest donor in 481 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: the last cycle with Sam Bankman Freedom you all probably 482 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: know well. Uh So Web three, in my view, is 483 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: going to be a very fascinating UM political force to 484 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: be reckoned with UM. Right now, they're concerned obviously UM 485 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: largely with the regulation on crypto itself. UM, but I 486 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: think that you're going to see more people pushing into 487 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: politics because now, uh the interaction with DC is going 488 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: to be one of the main drivers of whether enterprises 489 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: are able to grow and operate UM succes fully anywhere, 490 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: but certainly whether they're going to be headquartered here in 491 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: the US. You also launched Lobby three earlier this year. 492 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: I'm so curious how many people have bought into the 493 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: tokens and what positions is Lobby three going to be 494 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: advocating for. Lobby three has been a great energized community 495 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: of people that want to push for a common sense 496 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: regulation out of dc UM that is intelligent and sophisticated 497 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: and doesn't try and throw different UM types of assets together, 498 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: that has one regulator instead of kind of a hodgepodge UM. 499 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: And it's been awesome getting to know people who want 500 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: the best things for creators and entrepreneurs in the space UM. 501 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: Any time I go to a web gry gathering, there's 502 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: some folks who are part of the Lobby three community 503 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: and it's been a lot of fun. As a former 504 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: presidential candidate and the code chair now of the Forward Party, 505 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: I'd love to see into your crystal ball. Do you 506 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: think of Biden Trump face off in? Is that inevitable? 507 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: It's the most likely matchup right now, Emily Uh. The 508 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: odds are that Trump declares at the end of this year, 509 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: after the mid terms, and then Biden declares either Q 510 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: one or Q two of next year. UM, I will 511 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: say that those two candidates will have a combined age 512 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: of a d Fifty nine percent of Americans are not 513 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: excited about either of them. So the question is whether 514 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: unity ticket or some independent effort arises, and a group 515 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: called No Labels is very publicly invested fifty three million 516 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: dollars in ballot access for a potential unity ticket. I 517 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: think there's going to be a lot of enthusiasm for 518 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: some alternative after people face the reality that it is 519 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: a rematch in between Trump and Biden. So let's say 520 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: Biden doesn't run. Do you think the Democrats have a 521 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: strong enough bench. Who's on that bench? Would you consider 522 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: running again? Well? I think Joe Biden likely declares because 523 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: he feels he's the only one who can defeat Donald 524 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: Trump because he did it once, and you can't argue 525 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: with the fact that he did defeat Trump once. UM. 526 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: But it's also tough to slot in another Democrat who 527 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: you have the same confidence in. Uh, necessarily if you're Joe, 528 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: or even if you're anyone, because right now, UM, it's 529 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: unclear who the Democratic nominee would be. UM. I think 530 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: that's one reason why Joe is going to run again, honestly, So, 531 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: how are you going to spend the next couple of 532 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: years if you're not running again? You know, where are 533 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: we going to see you place your energy and efforts 534 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: and priorities Given a very critical election coming up, So 535 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: the Board Party has endorsed a number of candidates around 536 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: the country, including a US ended candidate named Evan McMullen, 537 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: whom I'm going out to campaign in Utah for UH 538 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: this weekend. We think we need to change the underlying 539 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: incentives for our lawmakers and leaders by doing away with 540 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: closed party primaries and replacing them with primaries where anyone 541 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: can vote for anyone through something called ranked choice voting. 542 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: If there's one thing you remember from this interview out there, 543 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: if you're you know, generally not that into politics, ranked 544 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: choice voting is the way out of this mess. It's 545 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: a way that anyone could vote for anyone with no 546 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: spim er effect, and it rewards more moderate, reasonable, collaborative 547 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: candidates who actually come through for voters. Um. So I'm 548 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: going to be trying to make rank choices voting the 549 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: law and as many places as possible, and I'm happy 550 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: to say it's spreading around the country all right. Uh, 551 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: Andrew Yang. Always great to have you with us, entrepreneur 552 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: obviously a former presidential candidate co chair of the former party. 553 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: Thank you Andrew for stopping by coming up. The latest 554 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: salvo comes up from Gray Scale versus the SEC. Gray 555 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: Scale CEO joining Snack to talk about the case for 556 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: a Bitcoin e t F. This is Bloomberg Crypto Acid 557 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: manager Gray Scale Investment says there is no justification for 558 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: the SEC's rejection of a Bitcoin e TF earlier this year, 559 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: the firm saying the secs rationale raises more questions than 560 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: answers and will undermine trust in crypto. Here to explain 561 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: is Gray Scale CEO Michael Son and Shine. Michael, thank 562 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. So give us the latest. 563 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: Where does the lawsuit with the SEC stand at this moment? Well, 564 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: last night, Emily, we filed our opening brief for the lawsuit. 565 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: So this lays out our initial legal arguments to the 566 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: court um and it's really the first substantive document as 567 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: part of the litigation process. So it's important to remember 568 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: this is a case about bitcoin, but we're putting in 569 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: front of our you know, in front of the court system, 570 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: really straightforward, common sense arguments. I think one of the 571 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: new arguments that's laid out here has to do with 572 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: this idea of a significant market tests which the SEC 573 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: has applied to bitcoin ETF applications. They've applied this very 574 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: stringently to spot bitcoin e t F applications like gray 575 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: Scale UM and other spot bit cooin e tfs that 576 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: have been denied, but very leniently to Bitcoin futures et 577 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: F applications, which is why we have several of them 578 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: in the market. And there's really been no justification as 579 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: to why this test is the in fact only test 580 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: that the SEC should be using. And we've also never 581 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: seen them use a test like this before when it 582 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: comes to evaluating new products to bring to market. Have 583 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,239 Speaker 1: you spoken at all with Gary Gainsler directly? You know, 584 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: we have regular dialogue with really everyone in d C, 585 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: my legal team and myself for down in d C 586 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: almost weekly these days, so we speak with all different 587 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: parts of the SEC and other regulators. Now, look, recently, 588 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: there have been a ton of cases fraud and bankruptcy 589 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: in crypto. There's Tera, there's Celsius, there's three hours. Why 590 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: is now the right time to prove to the SEC 591 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: that this market is no worse in terms of market 592 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: manipulation than others. Well, that's exactly the point. This significant 593 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: market tests that the SEC has laid out they believe 594 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: protects investors from fraud and manipulation, and they got comfortable 595 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: with that. When it comes to bitcoin futures, Well, the 596 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: interesting thing in the flaw in that logic is that 597 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: bitcoin futures derived their pricing from the underlying spot bitcoin market, 598 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: which underpins GBTC and any other spot bitcoin et F 599 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: application that's become, you know, in front of the SEC 600 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: and ulterily been rejected or denied. I think what we're 601 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: seeing though in d C is probably the most engagement 602 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: and understanding we've ever seen around crypto. You've bipartisans support 603 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: now with a variety of bills passing across the floor 604 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: of Congress, and I think we and other industry you 605 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: know heavyweights are calling on our regulators, calling on our 606 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: legislators to really develop new frameworks because otherwise we're squandering 607 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: innovation here in the United States. The Winkled Boss Brothers 608 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: were the first to try this spot bitcoin ETF. It 609 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: didn't fail. The road is littered with carcasses of others 610 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: who have tried and failed, how is gray Scale, with 611 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: its huge scale, in your view, different? It's a great question, Emily. 612 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: So today Gray Scale Bitcoin Trust ticker g BTC is 613 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,439 Speaker 1: the largest bitcoin fund in the world. It owns over 614 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: three percent of all bitcoin outstanding. A recent count said 615 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: that there are more than eight hundred and fifty tho 616 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: investors who own shares of g BTC in the US alone, 617 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: and that represents all fifty states. So, when we, as 618 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: an asset manager, are taking a product that's been in 619 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: the market, has billions of dollars of assets, hundreds of 620 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: millions of dollars of daily trading volume, has voluntarily become 621 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: an sec reporting company, and we know that the right 622 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: thing for investors to protect them, to put additional disclosures 623 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: and surveillance in place by becoming an et F is 624 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: the right thing for them. But our regulator is really 625 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: shunning the opportunity to do so. Well, we certainly take 626 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: issue with that, and so our team has been putting 627 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: the entire resources of the firm behind the et F 628 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: initiative and we're as committed as we've ever been to it. 629 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: What kind of timeline do you see for a resolution 630 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 1: of this case? Well, we filed the lawsuit earlier this summer, 631 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: and at that time we were guided to believe it 632 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: could be anywhere from nine to twelve months, although it 633 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: could be longer, could be shorter. What you're going to 634 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: see now that Grace Scale has filed its opening brief 635 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: is over the coming weeks you'll see a variety of 636 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: amikus briefs. So these are other parties that are filing 637 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: briefs with the court to put in front of the 638 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: judges presiding over the case to really talk about their 639 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: points of view on the issues at hand. And then 640 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: ultimately you'll see a brief from the SEC a couple 641 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: of weeks later with their responses to the arguments that 642 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: our legal team is outlined. We're also, you know, in 643 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: the middle of what could be a really massive economic downturn. 644 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: We've just heard from Andrew Yang who said he thinks 645 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: we've got a lot further downward to go. What is 646 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: your outlook and what it means for crypto. We're certainly 647 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: in a crypto winter, and a crypto winter is characterized 648 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: now by sustained lower prices. We're seeing from the investment community, 649 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: though that the lower prices are not causing them to 650 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: shy away from the asset class. In fact, we're actually 651 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: seeing investors continue to diversify. So a lot of investors 652 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: now kind of have that core position in bitcoin or 653 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: position in ethereum or both, and they're now looking at 654 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: other opportunities, and one of them is actually infrastructure. Just 655 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: last week, our team launched a totally new offering, Gray 656 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: Scale Digital Infrastructure Opportunities LLC, which is an operating company 657 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: that investors can put capital to work in that's actually 658 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: buying bitcoin mining hardware, plugging it into the network, and 659 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: distributing that value back out to shareholders. So for a 660 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: lot of investors, they've had that token exposure now and 661 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: now it's time that they think about the underlying infrastructure 662 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: that secures the network. And so there's a lot of 663 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: opportunity and a lot of activity going on despite the 664 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 1: sustained lower pricing environment we find ourselves in speaking of 665 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: the underlying infrastructure. The etherory emerge ended up being kind 666 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: of a non event. What do you think the next 667 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 1: big event is going to be? You know, that will 668 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: you know, catalyze changes and potentially blockchain technology. You know, 669 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: Emily respectfully, as someone who's been in crypto for nine 670 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: years of it actually was a big event because this 671 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: was a question mark hanging over Ethereum for a long time. 672 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: Could we see a very well known, very well trafficked, 673 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: very well utilized digital asset protocol move and make such 674 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: a meaningful move from proof of work to proof of 675 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: steak and Ethereum did it now? I think as we're 676 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: seeing the outcome of that, it's very very early days 677 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 1: and we're starting to see the development of more and 678 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: more staking around Ethereum and other assets um. What's coming 679 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: next is other upgrades to the Ethereum network, things like 680 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: the ability to unstake assets that are put into the 681 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: network for staking, and other upgrades that will come down 682 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: the line. But I certainly think it's an accomplishment for 683 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: all the developers and everyone who really put a lot 684 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: of time in many, many years of planning and energy 685 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: into getting Ethereum to make the switch over. Alright, point taken, 686 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: Michael sawnashein Gray Scale CEO. We're gonna continue to follow 687 00:38:51,640 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: your challenge to the SEC. Appreciate you stopping by. Apple 688 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: is withholding its latest employee benefits from staff at its 689 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: only unionized retail store, the reason given the store needs 690 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: to negotiate the perks with Apple via their collective bargaining arrangement, 691 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: but excluding unionized stores from new benefits not a new trend. 692 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: Starbucks also rolled out a series of new perks at 693 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 1: nine US in union stores, including raises and student debt coaching, 694 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: while saying that it can't legally provide them unilaterally two 695 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: sites with union activity. SpaceX plans to pronounce two new 696 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: space tourists slated to fly on the Starship Rocket, Dennis Tito, 697 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: the world's first ever space tourist in two thousand one, 698 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: and his wife. The couple paid an undisclosed amount to 699 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: fly around the Moon on Starship. Once the vehicle is complete, 700 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: they will travel with ten other undisclosed passengers on a 701 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: roughly week long journey. The trip doesn't include a landing 702 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: on the lunar surface, and it's unclear if the other 703 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: passengers have been chosen yet. And that does it For 704 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: this edition of Bloomberg Technology On Thursday, we've got Tron's 705 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: Justin Son on s talk about the future of DOWS 706 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: and all things crypto and web three and don't forget 707 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: to check out our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. 708 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm Emily Changing in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg