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Speaker 1: On The Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zeff, and best start changing

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Speaker 2: it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlyn, do you want to come over

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Speaker 1: for Sunday dinner.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I have a choice. I think I'm

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Speaker 3: disloyal to the family if I don't show up.

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Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, But I do.

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Speaker 3: Want to get into a petty argument because that's what

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Speaker 3: family dinners are all.

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Speaker 1: About, exactly exactly. And sorry in advance for my cooking

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Speaker 1: being terrible, but you'll probably make a snide comment about

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Speaker 1: it anyway.

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Speaker 3: So that's okay. I'm bringing something from the grocery store

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Speaker 3: and heating it up in a pan and saying that

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Speaker 3: I made it. Hell yeah, and bragging about it until

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Speaker 3: someone catches me. So wonderful kind of this thing I've

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Speaker 3: been getting into sounds great. Well. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: My name is Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Loft, my name is Caitlyn Durante, and this is our

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Speaker 1: show where we we examine movies through an intersectional feminist

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Speaker 1: lens using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point.

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Speaker 1: We're just using it to initiate larger conversations about representation

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Speaker 1: and things. But Jamie, what even is the Bechdel test?

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Speaker 3: Well, the Bechel test is a media metric created by

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Speaker 3: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel. It's sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test.

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Speaker 3: It was a test that she originally wrote into a

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Speaker 3: comic collection she published in the eighties and nineties, Dikes

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Speaker 3: To Watch Out For. It was a bit. It was

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Speaker 3: a joke to point out how infrequently women in movies

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Speaker 3: talk to each other about anything but men in the movie.

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Speaker 3: But it has since turned into a metric that people

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Speaker 3: use as sort of a soft jumping off point for

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Speaker 3: discussion about representation in movies. And that's how we use it.

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Speaker 3: Our version of the test requires that there be two

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Speaker 3: people of a marginalized gender with names who speak to

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Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man for more

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Speaker 3: than two lines of dialogue.

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Speaker 1: It's not that hard, it's not.

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Speaker 3: But and yet, if you're Christopher Nolan, he's goddamn near impossible.

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Speaker 1: He's never heard of it, and he won't hear of it.

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Speaker 3: This is so wildly off topic, but I feel like,

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Speaker 3: so I saw Oppenheimer bravely, oh brag. I just like,

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Speaker 3: at this point I view Christopher Nolan's women as like

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Speaker 3: camp masterpieces, because I'm like, he's never gonna get it.

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Speaker 3: I can't. I don't have the energy to get mad

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Speaker 3: about it anymore. And like, yeah, sure, that's that's what

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Speaker 3: we're like, all right, you got us pegged.

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Speaker 1: Florence Peugh's sitting naked in a chair for no reason.

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Speaker 1: That's camp Bless his heart.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he's I genuinely do think that

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Speaker 3: he's doing his best in that department, and that is

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Speaker 3: kind of tragic. Okay, anyways, it's not Oppenheimer day. Thankfully,

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Speaker 3: we have an incredible guest and want to get her

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Speaker 3: in the mix.

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Speaker 1: Yes, let's do it. She's a filmmaker, curator, and founder

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Speaker 1: of Black Tina Media, a community which elevates and amplifies

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Speaker 1: the voices of Afro, Latin X and Caribbean people. It's

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Speaker 1: an idea simone Hello and welcome by y'all.

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Speaker 3: Welcome.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I wish I would have practiced my intro.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, no, you nailed it.

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Speaker 4: Stuck all I'm like all the slang terms.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: So today's movie is soul Food. So tell us about

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Speaker 1: your relationship with the movie Soul Food.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So first, like, my mom is African American, my

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Speaker 4: dad is Panamanian. I'm black on both sides, so like

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Speaker 4: that movie is actually popular and like both communities and

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Speaker 4: all of the themes. Uh just so well with both

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Speaker 4: of the like families that I have, And that movie

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Speaker 4: is a true black classic, that's an African American classic.

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Speaker 4: Like and so many people I've like recited the lines

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Speaker 4: when Vanessa Williams character is like fuck the family, like

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Speaker 4: that whole sequence, Like everybody knows every single line and

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Speaker 4: it's so real and it's so realistic, like this has

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Speaker 4: happened to multiple fams. Like you at a party, there's

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Speaker 4: an argument and a kitchen in the kitchen, it's always

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Speaker 4: the kitchen. It's always the kitchen, and it spills out.

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Speaker 4: It was like it's a beautiful moment. I love the movie.

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Speaker 4: I love all the themes like it represents. I know

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Speaker 4: it passes the Bachelor test with Cristure. I'm having a

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Speaker 4: hard time pronouncing that word. But yeah, a lot of

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Speaker 4: the movies, though I watch are like a bunch of women,

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Speaker 4: So I love that there's I have sisters, lots of drama,

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Speaker 4: good food, Like I just I have a strong relationship

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Speaker 4: with the film. Themes of the film are still relevant

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Speaker 4: to me and my family today. And yeah, all the actors.

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Speaker 4: I love all the actors. I grew up watching all

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Speaker 4: those pastors, The Hookah Fox, Vanessa Williams, Macay pif Forer like.

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Speaker 1: Dreambone, not his character, but.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, but he's a cool dude, Like yeah,

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Speaker 4: you wise nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like I've never heard a bad word about

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Speaker 3: Mackay Fifer, and I hope I never do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie.

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Speaker 3: My relationship with this movie isn't super extensive. I feel like,

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Speaker 3: as an avid TNT watcher, I've seen bits and pieces

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Speaker 3: of this movie. I feel like that's my answer half

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Speaker 3: the time on this podcast is like I probably watched

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Speaker 3: it on TNT when I was too young to understand

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Speaker 3: anything happening in the movie. But I am a fan

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Speaker 3: of this director, George Tillman Junior, Like he's wonderful, still

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Speaker 3: very much working. I mean, I think I definitely saw

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Speaker 3: all the barber shops and Beauty Shop and most recently

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Speaker 3: The Hate You Give, and so I'm a fan of

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Speaker 3: his work, but I had never actually sat down with

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Speaker 3: Soul Food, and I certainly haven't seen this movie since

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Speaker 3: I think I was cognizant of how wildly stacked this

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Speaker 3: cast is, right down to like Gina Rivera from The Closer,

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Speaker 3: which was another TNT staple that I did watch.

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Speaker 1: Also, we talked about her recently because she was in Showgirls.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this cast is absolutely nuts. It's great. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: so I mean, I really enjoyed learning about what this

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Speaker 3: movie meant to George Tillman Junior because he wrote and

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Speaker 3: directed it, which he doesn't always necessarily do. He usually directs,

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Speaker 3: and so I really enjoyed it. I love I love

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Speaker 3: a family drama, and I especially love a family drama

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Speaker 3: that centers the sisters instead of the brothers, because brothers

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Speaker 3: are not as interesting to me. But it's also very

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Speaker 3: much a product of the nineties, So there's certain elements

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Speaker 3: where it's like, let's discuss but I'm very excited to

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Speaker 3: talk about it.

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Speaker 4: And there was a spin off TV show. Yeah, they're different.

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Speaker 4: For Willis who I think she the same. It's so

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Speaker 4: confusing because like in the black community, we talk about

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Speaker 4: Vness Williams. It's like what the light skin want or

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Speaker 4: the dark skin want. And that's like it's because it's

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Speaker 4: like they are in the same circles and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: I don't know in real life, but like you see

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Speaker 4: all them in like different like films.

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Speaker 3: And stuff like that, but right the same like era

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Speaker 3: to the.

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Speaker 4: TV show was very popular too, Like so I feel like, uh,

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Speaker 4: this director does not get he did not get his flowers.

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Speaker 4: He's not getting his flowers. He's still pretty young, like

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Speaker 4: so yeah, maybe he'll get some flowers soon after his

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Speaker 4: solar return, his second solar return.

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Speaker 3: So, oh my god, I was reading fur my Saturn.

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Speaker 3: I'm finishing up my Saturn return, which is also why

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Speaker 3: I'm blaming that everything in my life going on. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: George Tillmans is coming up. He's fifty four, so his

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Speaker 3: renaissance has yet to come. But he's so accomplished too.

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Speaker 3: It's like right, right, he directed the I did not

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Speaker 3: see it, the George Foreman biopic that came out this year. Yes,

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Speaker 3: just a fun fact, it's true. I vaguely remembered that

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Speaker 3: was a thing, but I didn't see it. I should

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Speaker 3: see it, Caitlin, was your history with self?

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Speaker 1: I had never seen it. I knew about it, but

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Speaker 1: it is not something that I watched. I'm not as

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Speaker 1: big of a fan of family drama films. I'm more like,

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Speaker 1: let's watch characters go on a little quest kind of person.

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Speaker 1: So I missed this one. But yeah, I wasn't fully

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Speaker 1: aware of the Stacked cast until I started watching it

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Speaker 1: and researching it, and I was like, Wow, look at

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Speaker 1: all these great actors who are also so good looking.

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Speaker 1: And I enjoyed the movie and I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. There's lots to discuss, so should we

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Speaker 1: get into it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, because there's many characters. Yeah, there's a lot of story.

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Speaker 3: I feel like some family dramas really over or undershoot,

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Speaker 3: like balancing the characters. But I thought this one was

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Speaker 3: so well done where it's like you, I feel like

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Speaker 3: every character got a satisfying arc, or like, when I

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Speaker 3: say satisfying, I didn't necessarily love how all the stories went,

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Speaker 3: but they all happened like no movie lost in the shuffle,

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Speaker 3: which is so impressive.

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Speaker 1: True. Yeah, definitely. Okay, here is the recap of Soul Food.

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Speaker 1: So we open on a wedding. A family is celebrating

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Speaker 1: Bird played by Nia Long getting married to Lem that's

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Speaker 1: Makai Pfeiffer, and Bird has two sisters, Terry and Maxine

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Speaker 1: played by Vanessa Williams and Vivica A. Fox, respectively, and

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Speaker 1: we learn about each of them. Maxine is married to

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Speaker 1: Kenny played by Jeffrey D. Sam's. They have two kids

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Speaker 1: plus a baby on the way. One of the kids

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Speaker 1: is this young boy named Ahmad, and he's like the

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Speaker 1: narrator of the story. The whole thing is told through

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Speaker 1: his point of.

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Speaker 4: View, which was so cool, like to see it through

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Speaker 4: a child's POV. Yeah, I was a kid two at

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Speaker 4: the time because I was like seven in nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 4: so it was like I could. It was a really

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Speaker 4: great way for me to connect with these adult themes,

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Speaker 4: you know, and in his relationship with his mom.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yep, oh, I know. It's really sweet.

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Speaker 3: I loved especially because I don't know, I feel like

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Speaker 3: there's so many like wise child tropes where it's like,

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Speaker 3: for kid is beyond his years, which a mod is,

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Speaker 3: but he's also still very much a little stinker, telling

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Speaker 3: weird lies to get his family to hang out with

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Speaker 3: each other, and I was like, that is the right

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Speaker 3: amount of little stinker.

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Speaker 1: He's like, let's go on a treasure hunt in the house.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's like yeah, that's a very like you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how old the like eleven year old

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Speaker 3: behavior or however.

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Speaker 4: He also was like, oh, they want money, Like he

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Speaker 4: was like, he was like, oh okay, money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he knows how to get adults interested in his scheme. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure.

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Speaker 3: And then they're like, oh no, yeah, we came here

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Speaker 3: because we love each other, Like yeah.

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Speaker 1: They all show up and they're like, oh right, we're

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Speaker 1: a family. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So the story

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Speaker 1: is told through a mod's point of view, and we

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Speaker 1: also get to know more about Terry. She's married to

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Speaker 1: Miles played by Michael Beach. They're both lawyers. They're like

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Speaker 1: the wealthier members of the family.

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Speaker 4: Is to be a musician.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she is not supportive sometimes.

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Speaker 3: And this is just my current moment, but I'm so

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Speaker 3: triggered by like and triggered, I mean extremely like triggered

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Speaker 3: by husbands who want to quit their jobs and become musicians.

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Speaker 3: I'm just like, enough is enough. It reminds me of

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Speaker 3: Jason Bateman. And Juno where it's like, it's not gonna

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Speaker 3: happen to be the best of luck. Though. I have

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Speaker 3: a quick aside, which is, for the whole time I

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Speaker 3: was watching this movie, I was like, a mod looks

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Speaker 3: so familiar. A mod looks so familiar, And it's because

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Speaker 3: he's to me anyways, he's accomplished child actor, but baby

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Speaker 3: Michael Jordan and space jam Oh I did not make

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Speaker 3: And he's the one that is outside doing in the

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Speaker 3: house all night long. I just I've seen it's basically

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Speaker 3: him five thousand times.

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Speaker 1: I did not make that connection. I was looking at

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Speaker 1: his IMDb and apparently he's in Mars attacks, which we

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Speaker 1: do need to cover some days. Oh my gosh, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I think you love it.

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Speaker 3: I think I would too, just based on the posters.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I wanted to be with the aliens.

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Speaker 4: I was like, let's go.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 1: Seriously anyway. So he yes, he's he's in a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Okay. So then we meet Big Mama Joe.

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Speaker 1: She is bird Terry and Maxine's mom Joe because their

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Speaker 1: last name is Joseph. She's played by Irma p. Hall

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Speaker 1: and There's.

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Speaker 3: Also her name is Josephine, so it could.

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Speaker 1: Really Oh oh that makes more sense. Yeah, Joe Josephine,

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Speaker 1: joseph is her name.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's just wearing Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Love that. Okay, So there's already drama because at the wedding,

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Speaker 1: lem is grinding on the dance floor with another woman

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Speaker 1: who is not his bride. And then Bird's ex boyfriend

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Speaker 1: Samuel shows up and he's bad news. But Big Mama

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Speaker 1: always knows what to do to dissipate the drama in

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Speaker 1: the family and set things right, so she does that.

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Speaker 1: Then we cut to their weekly Sunday dinner, a forty

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Speaker 1: year tradition where the whole family gets together at Big

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Speaker 1: Mama's house. Sorry I had to say it, starring Martin Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: and she cooks a bunch of delicious soul food, fried chicken,

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Speaker 1: collar greens, cornbread, mac and cheese, chitlins, hamhocks, things like that,

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Speaker 1: and the food always brings the family together.

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Speaker 3: And I love that they show the food. Sometimes they

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Speaker 3: feel like they're like the food at dinner was amazing,

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Speaker 3: and then you don't see it and you're like, was

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Speaker 3: it where is it? Beautiful food views in this movie

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Speaker 3: great spread.

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Speaker 1: So then Ahmad in his voiceover narration, is talking about

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Speaker 1: Big Mama and her husband who passed away some years before.

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Speaker 1: He ran a few successful businesses, and there's this family

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Speaker 1: rumor that they had saved up money and stowed some

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Speaker 1: of it away in the house somewhere. So there's like

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Speaker 1: this kind of underlying, like secret stash of money that

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Speaker 1: no one really knows where it is.

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Speaker 3: If I was old and had money, I would want

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Speaker 3: to do that just to fuck with my family.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's always money in the Banana Stan kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. But it's like, yeah, there's always money in

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Speaker 1: Uncle Pete's television set. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The third act is really loaded in so many things

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Speaker 3: happen in a row where if you blank, you're like, what,

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Speaker 3: the house is on fire. Uncle Pete's TV's full of money.

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Speaker 1: It's rerilling, Yeah, because also in the house lives Big

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Speaker 1: Mama's brother, Uncle Pete, who is a reck loose who

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Speaker 1: never comes out of his room. Okay, so the women

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Speaker 1: they're preparing Sunday dinner. By the way, Terry and Maxine

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Speaker 1: don't get along because when they were younger, Terry was

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Speaker 1: dating Kenny, who left her for Maxine, and Terry never

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Speaker 1: forgave her for it. Then, as they're like preparing the meal,

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Speaker 1: we get a reveal that Big Mama has diabetes, but

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Speaker 1: she brushes it off. She says, I don't need to

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Speaker 1: go to a doctor. Everyone sits down to dinner and

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Speaker 1: then cousin Faith shows up played by Gina Rivera, and

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Speaker 1: Big Mama is delighted to see her, but no one

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Speaker 1: else in the family seems thrilled. They seem like they

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Speaker 1: don't really like her because she's got kind of like

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote bad reputation, which they're.

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Speaker 3: Like, she moved to La and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that sign right evil thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Just then Maxine, who is gregnant as heck, goes into labor,

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Speaker 1: so the family rushes to the hospital. She has a baby.

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Speaker 1: Also at the hospital, I think in a separate day,

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Speaker 1: separate situation, Big Mama is told that her leg needs

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Speaker 1: to be amputated because of complications due to her diabetes.

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Speaker 1: She again kind of brushes it off. Meanwhile, Samuel shows

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Speaker 1: up to Bird's work, she runs a hair salon. He

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Speaker 1: gives her a wedding present, but he clearly has ulterior motives.

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Speaker 3: He has like resting villain face big time, Like, yeah, handsome,

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Speaker 3: a handsome, resting fence, but resting villain face. Nonetheless, why

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Speaker 3: you wear him again?

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Speaker 4: Why you didn't? Just what's the issue? What was the

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Speaker 4: problem with this guy? Like?

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Speaker 1: Right, it's never quick, clear clear hmm.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I just I truly was. I was just like

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Speaker 3: just the way that the actor was carrying himself in

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Speaker 3: the part, and I was like, Oh, it's the guy

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Speaker 3: in the suit that's up to no good god right, And.

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Speaker 4: It's what a man wants. They want the woman to

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Speaker 4: be with the freaking dude. They have to do all

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Speaker 4: the work to help them. It's like, yeah, you know

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Speaker 4: it is written by a man, you know, why is it.

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Speaker 1: Okay? So Simuel shows up to work, he's being scheming.

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Speaker 1: Then Lem shows up at Maxine and Kenny's house and

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Speaker 1: he tells Kenny that he lost his job because he

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Speaker 1: had lied on his application about having been convicted of

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Speaker 1: a crime because he spent time in jail. He recently

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Speaker 1: got out of jail, but he lied about this on

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Speaker 1: his application. His employer found out and he got fired.

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Speaker 1: So now he's looking for a new job and he

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Speaker 1: wants Kenny to help him, and Kenny's like, don't worry.

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Speaker 1: I got you. Then we check in with Terry and Miles.

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Speaker 1: He tells her that he wants to invest more time

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Speaker 1: and money in his music. She's not happy about it.

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Speaker 1: She's like, you're a lawyer, just be a lawyer. She's

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Speaker 1: also not happy about cousin Faate.

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Speaker 3: Tele not supposed to be on her side there, but

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Speaker 3: and maybe it's just but I was like, I'm in

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Speaker 3: finesse of Williams society. Men shouldn't follow.

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Speaker 4: Their treat everybody now is like she was right, Terry

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Speaker 4: was right. Terry was in the right the entire time.

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Speaker 4: She was being taken advantage of. She's literally holding everything together.

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Speaker 4: But she's supposed to be the bad persons taken care

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Speaker 4: of the house. Nobody else's paid a tax, you know,

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Speaker 4: but she's like the villain.

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Speaker 3: I was very team Terry there. Yeah, I was like,

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Speaker 3: she just wants a little bit of appreciation than you. Like,

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Speaker 3: I understand that sometimes it is like not presented in

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Speaker 3: the most tasteful way maybe, and I understand why her

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Speaker 3: sisters would be frustrated with her, But I'm like, it's

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Speaker 3: not absolutely out of the question that she would want

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Speaker 3: to be acknowledged for how much she's doing, and I

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Speaker 3: just don't think her husband should follow his dreams. He

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Speaker 3: was annoying to me. I wanted, or at least I

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Speaker 3: don't know whatever. We'll talk about how the story goes,

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Speaker 3: but I feel like, yeah, the way that Terry his

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Speaker 3: story went was like kind of treated as like, well,

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Speaker 3: of course this would happen because look how Terry was

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Speaker 3: telling him to stop playing the keyboard, and you're like,

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Speaker 3: stop playing the keyboard man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. She's portrayed as being very frigid, but yeah, she's

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Speaker 1: like actually making sure the family is like being held together.

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Speaker 1: She's also like very elitist about it. She's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: richer than all of you, and I went to law school,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, someone who's always talking about their

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Speaker 1: advanced degree certainly not me, someone who went to Boston

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Speaker 1: University to get a master's in screenwriting, because I never

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Speaker 1: mentioned that.

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Speaker 3: I've never heard that before.

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Speaker 1: But she's always mentioning her law degree anyway.

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Speaker 4: And doesn't she mention also that she put her sisters

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Speaker 4: through school. I don't know if I'm oh that right.

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Speaker 1: She does say that she pays for Bird's wedding. She

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Speaker 1: mentions different things she has paid for to like you know,

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Speaker 1: and she oh, she gives a loan to Bird also

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Speaker 1: to open up the beauty shop. Different things like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so she's like me, like she's a parentified child,

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Speaker 4: Like even though she's a sister, she was being very

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Speaker 4: maternal to her sisters.

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Speaker 1: Because she's the eldest too, the way a lot of

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Speaker 1: like eldest siblings often take on a role like that. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So we check in with Terry and Miles. She's not

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Speaker 1: happy about him pursuing his music. She's also not happy

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Speaker 1: about cousin Faith crashing with them. Then Big Mama is

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Speaker 1: convinced to have the surgery, so she goes through with

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Speaker 1: the surgery, but she has a stroke during it and

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Speaker 1: falls into a coma, and the family is devastated, and

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Speaker 1: her not being around sets off this kind of chain

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Speaker 1: reaction of things going wrong in the family. For example,

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Speaker 1: the forty year tradition of Sunday dinners falls apart, especially

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Speaker 1: because Terry and Maxine get in a fight about it

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Speaker 1: because they're never getting along. Meanwhile, Terry and her marriage

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Speaker 1: with Miles is on edge again she does not respect

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Speaker 1: his musical ambitions.

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Speaker 3: And then I kept up being on her side about this,

390
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Speaker 3: I just refuse.

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Speaker 1: Also, one night, Miles and cousin Faith are flirting. Later,

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Speaker 1: he helps her with a dance audition she has, and

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Speaker 1: then eventually they have sex, and Terry comes home and

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Speaker 1: sees them. Miles doesn't know that she saw them until

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Speaker 1: she confronts him at a party later that evening and

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Speaker 1: chases him around with a butcher knife.

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Speaker 3: Again, she did nothing wrong.

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Speaker 4: She did nothing. I mean, she didn't kill him.

399
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Speaker 3: Nope. Yeah, she just had to make a point there.

400
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 3: You know, technically what she did was wrong, but.

401
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Speaker 5: She did in their marital home.

402
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Speaker 3: The view of a full open window he had. I'm

403
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Speaker 3: just like cheaters in monogamous relationships gross hate it, but

404
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: especially when they're bad at it or like lazy about it.

405
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Speaker 3: I'm just like, oh my god, you're not even good

406
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: at this.

407
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Speaker 1: You didn't even try to conceal this. A child almost

408
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Speaker 1: saw it, like.

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Speaker 4: Right, because a mod was because she's doing more and

410
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Speaker 4: that's not even her kids don't she can't even have

411
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Speaker 4: kitchen busy working all the time. If it's not work,

412
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Speaker 4: it's homework. Yeah, and it's yeah ridiculous.

413
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a she did nothing wrong. But really quick

414
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Speaker 3: back to Gina Rivera because just like the mid nineties,

415
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Speaker 3: there's so many good Gena Rivera dance scenes committed to

416
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 3: film because we just covered Showgirls, and so I just

417
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Speaker 3: wanted to shout it out. I liked and also thought

418
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Speaker 3: it was like very nineties that anytime that there's music

419
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Speaker 3: or dancing in this movie, you see like a lot

420
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Speaker 3: of it, so much like you see the whole song

421
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Speaker 3: and you're kind of like, huh, why, I'm not mad

422
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: about it, but okay, great, Like when Miles is in

423
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Speaker 3: his band, you see them play the whole song and

424
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Speaker 3: you're like, okay, great, sure, good job you guys.

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Speaker 4: But I also feel like that's like normal, like in

426
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Speaker 4: black film, like art is so important, like in black film,

427
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 4: like even prayer, like no who like, oh I pray it.

428
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Speaker 4: It's like you see people actually praying, you hear them.

429
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Speaker 4: It's like you get the whole experience. And with the dance,

430
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Speaker 4: like I feel like that, like I've seen so many

431
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Speaker 4: specifically like African American films, see the entire dance. And

432
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 4: also people will get upset if it doesn't feel real.

433
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 4: So like in sure you know the show, like Poe's

434
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 4: Ripeople's got canceled like when he had that audition and

435
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 4: people were like, he would have never been accepted with

436
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 4: that audition. What the heck?

437
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: Like?

438
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 4: And you know, because I feel like we have this

439
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 4: history of like, if you're like usually black film, them

440
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 4: people dancing, it's like Janet Jackson's background dancer, and like

441
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: they have actual dancers, actual singers, And I.

442
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: Mean in this you know that Gina Rivera did that

443
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: entire routine because they're not doing any fancy cutting or

444
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: I mean the dancing in particular was beautiful. I didn't

445
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 3: know that that was like a feature of black film.

446
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: That's cool to know, definitely. So then we get that

447
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: chunk of Terry and Miles's subplot meanwhile, where we're checking

448
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: in with Bird and Lem. She finds out that he

449
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: was fired from his job and he can't find another one,

450
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: so she calls upon her ex Samuel to hook him

451
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: up with a job. And then Lem finds out about

452
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: this favor she called in and he feels emasculated and

453
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: he goes ballistic on both Samuel and Bird. We'll talk

454
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: about this whole subplot in more detail later on. But

455
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: then Terry calls another cousin of theirs to basically like

456
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: go rough Lem up, and when that happens, there's like

457
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: this bar fight and Lim pulls a gun and gets

458
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: arrested and ends up back in jail. Then the sisters

459
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: and their spouses have this conversation about how they're going

460
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 1: to pay for Big Mama's hospital bills. Terry wants to

461
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: sell once again Big Mama's House, starring Martin, Lawrence and

462
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: Maxine as opposed to this, and no one really knows

463
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: what to do. And little Ahmad goes to visit Big

464
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: Mama in the hospital and while he's there, she comes

465
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: out of the coma and tries to tell Amd something

466
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: that she wants him to do, but she can't finish.

467
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: She starts coughing doctor's Russian and then we get a

468
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: reveal that she has passed away, so the family grieves.

469
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: Everyone's a mess. Bird finds out that she's pregnant. Terry

470
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: calls in a lawyer favor and classic lawyer, classic lawyer behavior,

471
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: she gets Lem bailed out of jail. Meanwhile, Ahmad thinks

472
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: that what Big Mama wanted him to do was to

473
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: get the whole family together again for Sunday dinner, so

474
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: he goes to each member of the family and tells

475
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: them that before she died, Big Mama told him about

476
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: that stash of money that's hidden away somewhere in the

477
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: house and that he needs their help to find it.

478
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: And he's like, I'll give you a finder's fee, you know,

479
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: like sweetening the deal, and little Stinker love right, because

480
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: what he's really trying to do is just get everyone

481
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: in the house at the same time for family dinner.

482
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: So everyone shows up and they realize that it was

483
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: just a ploy to get everyone together, and they feel

484
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: uneasy about it, but they roll with it and they

485
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: sit down to dinner. During the dinner, some grievances are aired,

486
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: and then they're also like, well, what about this stash

487
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: of money though, and Ahmad is like, mm yeah, I

488
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: just made that up to get everyone together again, because

489
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: all you do is fight, and he's crying, and then

490
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: there's a fire in the kitchen and everyone's scrambling to

491
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: put it out, and then suddenly Uncle Pete, thelu relative

492
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: who lives upstairs, shows up in the kitchen holding a

493
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: suitcase full of that cash that was there all along,

494
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: and the family is like, we and then the movie

495
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: ends with Ahmad's voiceover saying, now I understand what soul

496
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: food is all about. Because during slavery, black folks didn't

497
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: have a lot to celebrate, So cooking became the way

498
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: that we expressed our love for each other. And that's

499
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: what Sunday dinners meant to us. It was a time

500
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: for sharing our joys and sorrows. And then we flash

501
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: forward to see the family getting along, they're having a

502
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,479
Speaker 1: nice time, they're in a better place.

503
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 4: They didn't sell the house.

504
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: They didn't, yes, exactly.

505
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 4: Because that's why I had the fight in the kitchen,

506
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 4: was because Harry's I'm selling.

507
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: House, right, So the house stays in the family and

508
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: everyone is just doing pretty well. And that's the end

509
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: of the movie. So let's take a quick break and

510
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: we'll come to discuss, and we're back.

511
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: And we're back. We usually defer to our guest nah

512
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: an idea. Is there anywhere you, in particular, would like

513
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: to start the discussion.

514
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 4: Hmmm, I guess, like with this film, there's so many things,

515
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: so many things. I really like how it's like a play,

516
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 4: Like there's a lot of setups in the first act,

517
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 4: like everything like means something, and it comes back like

518
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: even at the end when the fire happens. There's a

519
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 4: reason she specifically said, you don't put anything on like

520
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 4: lying bomb said, don't put anything on the stove, because

521
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 4: that's how fires happen. And he accidentally and it was

522
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 4: like he didn't think of it. He just put it

523
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 4: by the stove because they like, ahmad, come here, and

524
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: that's when they realize, yeah, here for some money. I'll

525
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 4: hear somebody, you know, and they and that's how like

526
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 4: the whole fire got started and they all had to

527
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 4: work together to like put it out in the which

528
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 4: led to Uncle Pete coming out of his room because

529
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 4: he thought he was about to die because he's about

530
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 4: to smoke, and then dropped he holding TV.

531
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: He wasn't gonna steal the money, but I didn't even

532
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 5: didn't he know.

533
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: That there was money, and maybe he knew there was money,

534
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 4: and then he was like, oh, I gotta get that.

535
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: Money unclear, Yeah, because the TV appeared to be bursting

536
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: with money.

537
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 4: And then we you know, now the money's ride everywhere

538
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 4: and it's like, oh my gosh, we don't have to

539
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 4: sell the house anymore. We got it. But I love

540
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: that film because it's a complete story beginning, middle.

541
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 5: And end.

542
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 4: And as like I guess like a black child, it

543
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 4: felt like very relatable, like, oh my god, I would

544
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 4: love to get my family together. You know. However, she

545
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 4: died because of diabetes due to some of that food.

546
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 4: Some of that food needed to be substituted. And this

547
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: is actually a big, big area of consistion for a

548
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 4: lot of black communities with people calling soul food bad.

549
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 4: And it's not that it's bad, it's just some people

550
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 4: will not have greens, or they will have greens with

551
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 4: the meat inside. You can substitute some of these things.

552
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 4: And then also everybody's not making stuff from scratch anymore.

553
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 4: So that's really the issue because back in slavery days,

554
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 4: people were literally killing the chicken that night and like

555
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: we're making we're having chicken. That's how we got this chicken. Nowadays,

556
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 4: there's so much crap in the food, like it's not

557
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: this we're not eating the same food. Like there's no

558
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 4: I don't wanna say there's no people doing it from scratch,

559
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 4: but it's like a completely different.

560
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: World so processed.

561
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's how she died. And I I really

562
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 4: wanted them. I know they had the garden cause they're like, oh,

563
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 4: we have the garden like Terry's in the garden like

564
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 4: at the end and everything. But some of those things

565
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 4: is like okay, like we eating the same food that

566
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: led to her getting the diabetes, and also like having

567
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 4: more conversations about health in our communities because there's a

568
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: lot of fear of doctors, which is why like a

569
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 4: lot of elderly people, especially black men, will be like

570
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 4: I'm not going to a doctor. I don't want to go,

571
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 4: like I've had horrible experiences at the doctor, like you know,

572
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 4: like at the guy, know with like white women. So

573
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 4: like I get why you'll be like, well, it's my time.

574
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: Like if it's my time, it's my time.

575
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 5: I'm old.

576
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 4: Like so I get that, but like I think about

577
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: that when I think about the movie, it's just like

578
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 4: black health food health, and also like families, like how

579
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 4: do you how do you communicate with your family? And

580
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 4: it was really messed up. It was really messed up.

581
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 4: You don't take your sister's man, you really don't.

582
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 5: That's like.

583
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 4: Written by a man, written by a man, because that's

584
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: the fantasy is like sleeping when I buy in a family,

585
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 4: Like so.

586
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: I need to get around to all the sisters, right, well.

587
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 3: I want to talk more about the theme of food.

588
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 3: Obviously it's the name of the movie. I think it's

589
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 3: like super well contextualized within the movie that not only

590
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 3: is soul food integral to this family, but to black

591
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: culture in general. But yeah, the way that it affects

592
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: Mama Joe is like I was like, what is he

593
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 3: trying to get at there? Like, I guess that it's

594
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 3: open to discussion. I was looking up interviews to see

595
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: if George Tillman Junior had spoken to why he made

596
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 3: that choice for her character, and I was kind of

597
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 3: unclear on it, Like I don't necessarily object to it

598
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 3: because it's like, of course, diabetes, like is an issue

599
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 3: that a lot of people have, and you don't see

600
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: it put on film very often. I went down a

601
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 3: rabbit hole of like how often do you see diabetic character?

602
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 3: And usually whenever you do, which I guess this movie

603
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 3: isn't an exception to it's as a plot point where

604
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 3: eventually they will be severely affected by or die as

605
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 3: a result of diabetes. There's very few examples of a

606
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 3: character that just has diabetes and is treating it or

607
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 3: is just sort of living as a person with diabetes.

608
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 3: I feel for Mama Joe so terribly because of her

609
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: understandable issues with doctors, and but the way that, Yeah,

610
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 3: I was how did everybody feel about the way that

611
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 3: that plot point was treated. I feel like sometimes in

612
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: family dramas in general, there's a lot of like, well,

613
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: we have to sort of take out the matriarch or

614
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: the patriarch and watch the rest of the family go

615
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 3: wild in their absence, which, at least I don't know

616
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: like that feels true to life. That's certainly been true

617
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: in my experience, where you know, like your grandparent dies

618
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: and all these traditions go with them if your family's

619
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: messy and can't keep up with them.

620
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 4: No, that happened in my life, specifically, choosing diabetes.

621
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: It was an interesting choice, and I didn't quite know

622
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 3: what to make of it, Yeah.

623
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: Especially because that's the thing that basically like tears the

624
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: family apart. Like you said, it's the plot point that

625
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: instigates a lot of this family melodrama. And I feel

626
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: like a lot of depictions of diabetes come with some

627
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: form of shame, like oh, if the character hadn't eaten

628
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: this way, or had this diet or you know, made

629
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: this this and this choice, they wouldn't have diabetes. I

630
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: don't think the movie is explicitly shaming her, but I

631
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: don't know like the optics of like, she has diabetes.

632
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 3: And that explicitly say that, though I don't remember if

633
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 3: it was voiceover narration or a character speaking to her

634
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 3: where they're like, Mom, we told you to blah blah

635
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: blah blah blah with the food.

636
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 4: I think taking the medicine too. Was she like not

637
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: taking her medicine or something.

638
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

639
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: I think they say like, you need to take your

640
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: insulin or something along those lines. And again, it's super

641
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: understandable that Big Mama would be wary of doctors because

642
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: there is so much institutionalized racism in the medical field.

643
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: But it does almost feel like the movies kind of

644
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: shaming her for her choices with health and diet and

645
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: things like that.

646
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And in a movie where I felt like

647
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 3: not a ton of plot points were really dropped, that

648
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: felt like one of them where I was like, that's sorry,

649
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 3: my kat's walking through my armpits. That's funny. Yeah, he's

650
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 3: gonna be also pretty loud because he's gonna want some attention.

651
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: It's hungry for Sunday dinner.

652
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it was just I don't

653
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 6: think it was done maliciously, but it just felt like

654
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 6: a plot point that could have been explored a little

655
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 6: bit more in a way that would have been more

656
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 6: fair to.

657
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 3: The character, who's clearly a character that everyone in the

658
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 3: story loves, and if she wasn't taking the insulin, you know,

659
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: it would have been at least interesting to explore why,

660
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: because I feel like it's presented sort of in a

661
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 3: more judgmental way than maybe it was intended. But I

662
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: don't know, I could be overthinking it too.

663
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 4: I think also, we didn't have those conversations. I don't

664
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 4: want to say we didn't have those conversations, but in

665
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 4: the public sphere we're having those conversations way more. Yeah,

666
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 4: Like it was like certain communities were having these conversations,

667
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: and now like we're all talking like black maternal health,

668
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 4: like everybody's talking about it. It's not just black women anymore.

669
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 4: So I think the time times have changed as well.

670
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: For sure. Yeah, because yeah, we're in this movie came

671
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 3: out twenty six years ago now, so.

672
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: Ninety seven, the same year that Titanic came out. Anyway, Wow,

673
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: I just have to shout that out obviously, so but yeah,

674
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that there's such a strong focus though,

675
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: as you were saying, an idea on the sisters and

676
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: their dynamic, because.

677
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: It's just so so different, like.

678
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: Super different, very distinguishable, and it's just rare in general

679
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: for a movie to be about a group of sisters,

680
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: and even rarer for a movie written and directed by

681
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: a man. But he, like George Tillman Jr. Very deliberately

682
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 1: wanted to make a movie that had a focus on

683
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: female characters. He wanted it to be about the importance

684
00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: of family. He told the Chicago Tribune in an interview, quote,

685
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a movie about a black family

686
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: in Middle America. I wanted to make a film where

687
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: everyone can look at them and say, this is my family. Unquote.

688
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: So he, you know, he just he wanted to make

689
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: this movie about a relatable family and one that focused

690
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: on the sisters and not only they're like interpersonal relationships,

691
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: but then their subplots with their other you know, their

692
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: spouses and their careers and things like that. So I

693
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: appreciate that there's just like so much focus on all

694
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: of that in a way that feels extremely authentic, like

695
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: their relationships, their conflicts. You could argue that it's that

696
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: tired trope of like two women not getting along because

697
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: one like quote unquote stole the other's man.

698
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 3: I feel like that. I not to because I do

699
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 3: think that there are elements of how women are written

700
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 3: in this movie that feel very like boying women did

701
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: not write this, and I can tell, but I don't know.

702
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: I'm gonna jump to his defense a little bit there

703
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: because they're sisters, and like how we very often see

704
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 3: if there's infidelity and there's a woman and a man

705
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 3: and it's like someone's husband cheated on them with another woman.

706
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: We see in movies, especially of the nineties, that she

707
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: is only mad at the other woman and a husband

708
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: is like, well, he couldn't help himself. She tempted him,

709
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: and that's the story we kind of hear over and over.

710
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: I do think the dynamics are different if it's someone

711
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: that you've known your whole entire life, because it's almost

712
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: like you would want more loyalty from your I would

713
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 3: expect more loyalty from my sister than from my husband.

714
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 4: I also agree, and I did appreciate like that Harry

715
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 4: was more upset. She wasn't upset with Faith, not really.

716
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a quick moment where when she has the

717
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: butcher knife that she's wielding at her husband, she kind

718
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: of like pivots a little bit and kind of waves

719
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: it at Faith. But other than that, she's like, well,

720
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a few moments where she's like,

721
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, I let like fuck the whole like monologue

722
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: where she's like, fuck the family, I let the family

723
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: into my house and.

724
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 5: Family, my family fucked my husband.

725
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: So she is targeting some of her anger, but I

726
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: don't think it's necessarily that thing that you were talking about, Jamie,

727
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: as far as like, oh, I'm directing my anger only

728
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: at the other woman because there's this I mean, we've

729
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: talked about this quite a bit, and we I think

730
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: we talked about it a lot on the like Waiting

731
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: to Exhale episode where the one who had been cheated

732
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: on targets all of her anger to the other woman

733
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: and like letting the man who did the cheating mostly

734
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: off the hook, which often has just like sexist implications

735
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: as far as like, well, women can't get along and

736
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: women are so petty, so obviously they're gonna find any

737
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: excuse to be mad at each other. That's not quite

738
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: what's happening here, because it's like, well, she's just mad

739
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: at everyone for betraying her.

740
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 4: She's right, she's like, my.

741
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: Family, you can't betray me like that. You're my husband,

742
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: you can't betray me like that.

743
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then also like what did she have to

744
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: give up to be everything to everybody in this family

745
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 4: because everybody has their own little things that they're into

746
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 4: with bird and the salon, like she's working, but I

747
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 4: get the idea that she's working at this job because

748
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 4: it's very lucrative and it allows her to like fulfill

749
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 4: her responsibilities. But like if she didn't have to have

750
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 4: that role, how would she be Because in the position

751
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 4: she's in, she's not gonna.

752
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 5: Be like, hey, guys, what's up?

753
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 4: Like you know, like she has to remember dates, doctor's

754
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 4: appointments when we have to pay all these bills, like

755
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 4: you know, her husband's out doing jazz club things, and

756
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 4: like fucking the cousin, like you know, she's taking a

757
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 4: mod when even though magazine took her and she's the

758
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 4: on that takes him out and does you know, make

759
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 4: sure he has what he needs.

760
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 5: So it's like that's.

761
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 4: How she's gonna be considering the environment.

762
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: That's the thing where like I feel like so many

763
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: women are blamed for like just doing the labor that

764
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: it takes to keep a family together. Because she's like

765
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: she's doing household labor, she's doing familial labor. She's like

766
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: financial she's like the.

767
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 4: Maazing's out here trying to scare this man so he

768
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 4: don't beat up her sister.

769
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 5: She's she's doing.

770
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 4: All the things like she's I need you to do

771
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 4: something because he not gonna beat up on her like that,

772
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 4: and then she gotta go and find a lawyer to

773
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 4: get the man out.

774
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: She's doing literally everything. And but it's the way that

775
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: like woman like that will often be perceived, either just

776
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: in real life or in media as being like frigid.

777
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: I really think the movie wants you to think that, oh,

778
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: she's got to stick up her ass. She's like not

779
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,959
Speaker 1: only did like her family not acknowledge everything she's doing

780
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: for them, but like neither does the movie, it feels like,

781
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: but also not in a way that it's like we

782
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: should be grateful for everything she's doing to help.

783
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: It's true, and then also the world like to be

784
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 4: a black woman in a corporate space like that, who

785
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 4: do you have to be to be actually successful? She

786
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 4: has a corner office, she's not she doesn't have a cubicle.

787
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 4: Like she's a boss for real, for real.

788
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: She's like about to make partner and.

789
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 4: Stuff, right, So, like what does it take to be

790
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: that person? But I think a lot of the audience

791
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 4: like nowadays, like back in the day, it was like, oh, Terry,

792
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 4: you know, now everybody's everybody's on Terry's side.

793
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 5: Everybody's like, yo.

794
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've said it before, we'll say it again. Terry

795
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: did nothing wrong. But the movie is treating her as

796
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: though she's this uppity, frigid woman. And yes, she is,

797
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: like again holding her degree and her accolades and her

798
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: money over people the way that like oftentimes a family

799
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: member with more money will kind of try to exert

800
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,959
Speaker 1: that power in a way which is like not grey.

801
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: We don't love to see it, right, And I.

802
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: Totally understand why family members that had less than her

803
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: would be somewhat resentful of that. Like I think, I

804
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 3: don't know, if you've been on any side of that

805
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 3: family dynamic, it's always going to be really tricky. It

806
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 3: seems like sometimes Terry wants to be acknowledged for what

807
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 3: she's bringing to the table and it's being taken as

808
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 3: punitive or insulting in a way that it just feels

809
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 3: like more of a communication issue, because I don't think

810
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: anyone is necessarily wrong, Like I don't think Bird is

811
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 3: being an asshole by being like I don't need to

812
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 3: thank you every second for investing in my beauty shop,

813
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: which is very successful. And I also don't think that

814
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 3: Terry is a monster for wanting to be acknowledged for

815
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 3: having done that, And so it just feels like sisterly

816
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 3: communication for sure.

817
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 4: But also it's also on the mother a lot of times,

818
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 4: like the mom put Terry in that position. She should

819
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 4: have never been in a position where she had to

820
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: be maternal to her sisters, especially if they had a father,

821
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 4: Like why is Terry doing all of this? You know,

822
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: if you have a husband. We didn't even get into that,

823
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 4: Like the movie doesn't get into that. They don't address that,

824
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 4: like because Terry's a print to child, like she didn't

825
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 4: get to be just ae sister, Like she has to

826
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 4: take care of her mother, her sisters, her sister's kids,

827
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 4: her uncle, her husband, like so yeah, that isn't addressed,

828
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 4: and I just think people don't realize how much work

829
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 4: it is to be like the oldest daughter.

830
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, for sure, do we have any oldest daughters

831
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: in the house?

832
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: Okay, saying I'm an old child?

833
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 3: Sorry, unbelievable.

834
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: I know.

835
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 3: Again, it's just like a very specific stage of the

836
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: life thing. But I do feel like, yeah, like oldest

837
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 3: kids a very girls, and sometimes you come off as

838
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 3: maternalistic and like you're trying to take care of everybody.

839
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 3: But usually like sometimes, and it seems like with Terry

840
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 3: this was the case at different points, like you saw

841
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: kind of the worst of it, where it's alluded to

842
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: a few times that girl's father, Joe's husband had a

843
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 3: gambling problem and that this was something that really deeply

844
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 3: affected their family. And I think, based on the timeline

845
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: it's described, that the eldest would have been the most

846
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 3: exposed to that and how it affected the family in

847
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 3: a very particular way. And I do think that like

848
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 3: when you grow up in a family with addiction or

849
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 3: infidelity or just a very strong core issue, the eldest

850
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 3: absorbs a lot of that and the way that they

851
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 3: process it is not always good. But I do think

852
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 3: it is like relevant to who Terry is that it

853
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 3: makes total sense to me that she both wants to

854
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 3: and seems like she like genuinely wants to take care

855
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 3: of her family, Like she doesn't dislike her family, she

856
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 3: just feels unappreciated.

857
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 4: But also like it's also because she's a woman, because

858
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 4: if there was an older boy, he would not have

859
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 4: the same responsibilities. Like I even have friends who are

860
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 4: they're the oldest girl, and they have older brothers, and

861
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 4: they take care of their older brothers, you know, so

862
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 4: it's like they don't get to be the middle kid,

863
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 4: you know, or the youngest if they're the oldest girl,

864
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 4: because now you're a mother and now you have labor.

865
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: To do exactly.

866
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 1: That's actually familiar to me because I have an older

867
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: brother and a younger sister and so.

868
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 3: So you're technically so we're all spirits.

869
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, yeah, children here, Hello, we need a break,

870
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 4: we need a massage.

871
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: I wish there would have been there would have been

872
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: more acknowledgment of like everything that Terry does for the family.

873
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: Every like it's contextualized why she is the way that

874
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: she is, but it's not necessarily explicitly those connections aren't

875
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: necessarily explicitly made, and it's just like Terry needs to

876
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: lighten up, and it's like, well, let's explore maybe what

877
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: she's going through, right, Can we let's take a quick break,

878
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back for more discussion. And we

879
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: are back. Could we talk about the aspect of the

880
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 1: story of Lem losing his job and his difficulty finding

881
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: another one, because there's an awful lot to talk about here.

882
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: It's a pretty big focal point of the movie that

883
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: Lem has gotten fired because his employer found out that

884
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: he lied on his application about having a criminal record.

885
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: And then Lem has difficulty finding another job because he

886
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: starts telling the truth on his applications about having been

887
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: convicted of a crime, and so he's having trouble landing

888
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: another job not only because he has a criminal record,

889
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: but specifically because he's a black man with a criminal record.

890
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: Because I mean, black people with the same qualifications as

891
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: their white counterparts are often less likely to be offered

892
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: jobs than white people, and then black people with a

893
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: criminal record are statistically way less likely to be offered

894
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: a job than white people with a criminal record. So

895
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: we see this man infesting in Lem's character and he's

896
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: talking to Bird about how like I lied on the application,

897
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: like I'm doing this and like I'm struggling with this

898
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: because it's about this bullshit system. He says something like

899
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: they lock you up and expect you to do something

900
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: better with your life, but when you get out, there

901
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: isn't anything better because like the white people who have

902
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: everything don't give you a second chance. And then Bird

903
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: is like, that's bullshit, like stop using the white man

904
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: as an excuse, which surprised me that she took that

905
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: stance because, like Lem is absolutely right, it has everything

906
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: to do with systemic racism. But I also feel like

907
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: Bird's response to that is her holding on to these

908
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 1: biases when it comes to rigid gender roles and what

909
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: she expects of a man having to be like the provider,

910
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: because that becomes this whole other component of this story

911
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: where Lem goes to Kenny and Kenny's like, don't tell

912
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: your wife that you're unemployed, Like, never tell a black

913
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: woman that you don't have a job. You know, it's

914
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: all right for them to lie around the house, but like,

915
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: not the man. And even if you're doing household work,

916
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 1: like they won't respect you unless you have a job

917
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: out in the world earning money, which again like just

918
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: like speaks to like these rigid gender roles that both

919
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: that like men and women harbor because like patriarchy conditions

920
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: all genders to hold onto these like certain expectations where

921
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, like the men, the men have some

922
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 1: messed up values in this movie, but so do the women,

923
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: Like women like Bird not valuing like her husband doing

924
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: household labor and she's conditioned to think, like, well, that's

925
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: like a woman's work, and right, men shouldn't be doing that,

926
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: should be going out and earning. So I don't know,

927
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: like the movie starts to comment on this, but then

928
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: where it lands feels kind of dissonant because it comes

929
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: down on the side of like reinforcing those gender expectations

930
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: because of like how forgiving it is to various male

931
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: characters after they've displayed some pretty nasty behavior, right, So

932
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, it feels like all over the place.

933
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: I wish it had like kind of made some more

934
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: definitive statements about how like wow, these gender roles that

935
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 1: are forced upon us and these expectations based on gender,

936
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: they're so rigid. Can't we like just do whatever we're

937
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 1: able to do to participate and help with the family unit.

938
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: But certain characters are just like holding too tightly onto

939
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: certain expectations. And then you have like Lemb like being

940
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: abusive to multiple people and everyone's just like.

941
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 4: That's just his personality. Yeah, Like, but I also feel

942
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 4: like it's respectability politics, Like it's like you have to

943
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 4: be a good boy and a good girl in this world,

944
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 4: and this is what it looks like for a black

945
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 4: person to be good. Like Terry is good. You know,

946
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 4: she does a good job, she's making a lot of money,

947
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 4: she's a lawyer. She gets to check with Maxine. I

948
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 4: think Maxine is a stay at home mom. Yes, she's

949
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 4: a stay at home mom, but I do think she

950
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 4: is smart. Like I always thought, like why is she

951
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 4: stay at home mom? She could do so many cool things,

952
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 4: like she has all of these skills, but she's stay

953
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 4: at home mom and that's like her role.

954
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 5: And with Limb, like I was like I understand.

955
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 4: Where it's like, Okay, you gotta don't use that as

956
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 4: an excuse because growing up, like I grew up with

957
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 4: a lot of guys in and out of Juvie, and

958
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 4: they would make so many excuses. But you would give

959
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 4: them an opportunity, like, oh, why don't you try this,

960
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 4: you have this skill here, like go a little further,

961
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 4: and they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't even put the

962
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 4: effort in to make those changes. So I'm a little

963
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 4: mixed on that, but definitely chuck full of respectability in

964
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 4: the society, Like there are a lot of like boxes

965
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 4: that people are stuck in, like a with Terry's husband

966
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 4: not being allowed to be an artist, like it not

967
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 4: even being a serious conversation because he's actually he's actually

968
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 4: very talented, which is why faith in him connected because

969
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 4: they're both very talented artists. And I think was it

970
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 4: Casey and Jojo at the hand, it was like.

971
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 5: This is crazy, like you're really good.

972
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 4: Like so it's like, but that wasn't even a real

973
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 4: option because it's like, you can't be a musician even

974
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 4: though you are good, Like he could have probably been

975
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 4: one of the top pianists or whatever, or like traveling

976
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 4: the world making a bunch of money, but that wasn't

977
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 4: accessible where like you lived and stuff like that. So

978
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 4: I feel like there's a lot of respectability in a movie,

979
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 4: but that also like reflected those times and what people

980
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 4: were proud of what you could be proud of, Like, ah,

981
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 4: like I can't be proud of you as a musician

982
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 4: because like I'd rather you do your corporate job, like

983
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 4: you have more value there, you know, instead of like

984
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 4: being an artist.

985
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: Terry even puts a number on it. She's like thirty

986
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: one thousand of the blah blah blah, and our joint account.

987
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 5: Is yours, right, yeah, And she's.

988
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: Like putting a value on him, the monetary like specific

989
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: number value on him, or she.

990
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 4: Would know she pan all the bills.

991
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, he's not paying a bills.

992
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 4: So it's like it's like, yeah, but if he was

993
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 4: a musician who was handling things, like what if he

994
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 4: was handling things, like if he was doing shows and

995
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 4: he was like I got a lot of money, don't

996
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 4: worry about the house. I got it, don't worry about

997
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 4: amadituition or whatever she's doing because I know she's paying

998
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 4: bills with Mexican Party.

999
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, but like I got it.

1000
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 4: Like so it's also you want to be this musician,

1001
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 4: but you're still leaning so heavy. We got to get

1002
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 4: away from Terry because we're like.

1003
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 5: It's becoming this so hard.

1004
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 3: Terry is a nuclear Rod, But it's like, but with her,

1005
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 3: I'm so invested in Terry, where I wonder in her relationship,

1006
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 3: would she have been more willing and amenable to supporting

1007
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 3: her husband's musical ambitions if she felt appreciated by him

1008
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 3: in the first place, Because it does seem like with

1009
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 3: Terry there is this inherent I don't know, and I

1010
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 3: think that this is like something that exists in a

1011
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 3: lot of successful women, an inherent insecurity of like how

1012
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 3: am I viewed and if someone is threatened by me?

1013
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 3: What is the quote unquote consequence of that? Which I

1014
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 3: think is very much a thing and it shouldn't be.

1015
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 3: But I it like Terry's reactions as as I think

1016
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 3: sometimes harsh as they can seem, and I think as

1017
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 3: they are perceived in the movies, I don't know, like

1018
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: I do wonder, and we don't have a ton of

1019
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 3: context for that of like, well, how has he behaved

1020
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 3: for this entire relationship? Is he saying that I am

1021
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 3: not that it's her place to block his dreams? But

1022
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 3: they're in a partnership and she has to take on

1023
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 3: some financial burden and she deserves to know if that's

1024
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 3: something that is happening and it feels like that goes

1025
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 3: unexplored a little.

1026
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, he took five grand out of their account to

1027
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: like build his at home studio without consulting her.

1028
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 3: And that's not just their money, that's also their house.

1029
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 3: You're like, he just do something like that to the house.

1030
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And it's like, yeah, It's like it would

1031
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: be one thing if he was like like, hey, babe,

1032
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm interested in pursuing music, Like would you entertain the

1033
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: idea of like me building this home studio. It's gonna

1034
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: be an investment, but like I'll use my money and like,

1035
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, having just an open conversation about it.

1036
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: But he did that discussion.

1037
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just goes behind her back and doesn't have

1038
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: an open conversation about it at all, and then he

1039
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: resents when she's not more supportive. But it's like, well,

1040
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: like you put her in this position where you're not

1041
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: being open and honest with her, So yeah, I understand

1042
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: her not being fully supportive.

1043
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 3: And even though this is not Miles's fault, we have

1044
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: context for Terry that she has serious trust issues, right people,

1045
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 3: because of this experience with her sister, right, And so

1046
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 3: that is not on Miles, but that is context for

1047
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 3: how Terry behaves in situations like that, where I feel

1048
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 3: like she shuts down and like absorbs a lot and

1049
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 3: comes off really defensive. I feel so much for Terry.

1050
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: Justice for Terry. We see her get cheated on in

1051
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: two different scenes by two different people.

1052
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 3: Let her have her butcher knife.

1053
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 4: That are supposed to women, and these are women in

1054
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 4: her family, are not her friends, betraying that her the

1055
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 4: girl who works at the dairy queen. It's like, this

1056
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 4: is my sister and this is my cousin.

1057
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And I do think.

1058
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 3: That, yeah, like the way that this conversation goes around

1059
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 3: in fidelity would be different if it was the girl

1060
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 3: at the dairy Queen or like someone that we don't

1061
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 3: know and don't see again, because then it feels more

1062
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 3: woman versus woman. But it's like Terry, I don't know.

1063
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 3: And then even at the end, I was like, Wow,

1064
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 3: no justice for Terry, where they're like Terry and Miles

1065
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 3: broke up, but Miles was still around a lot.

1066
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 5: And you're like, why who's out of here?

1067
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: Didn't care anyway, it's probably Ama just being like hey

1068
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: uncle Miles.

1069
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 4: I know, I know.

1070
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: It's like inviting people who know one's.

1071
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 4: Around paying for your boarding school right now? Who's paying

1072
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 4: for basketball practice? Right? Because you want to be a

1073
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 4: basketball player?

1074
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 3: Like he wants to be right right, that's his dream

1075
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 3: and it works well alert for a space jam.

1076
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, good for him.

1077
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 4: Shout out to Terry and all the work she did

1078
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 4: so he could become the NBA.

1079
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 3: It's true without Terry, we wouldn't have Michael Jordan, and

1080
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 3: no one talks about that.

1081
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: Terry going underappreciated again, damn. I think another clue that

1082
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: this was written and directed by a man is and

1083
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: I alluded to this already, but how easily so many

1084
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: of the men are like let off the hook by

1085
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: the end as far as like I mean to me.

1086
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: The biggest example is Lem where he like goes ballistic

1087
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: multiple times, like beating people up, shoving his wife, like

1088
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: being so emasculated and acting out in violent ways like

1089
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: and then everyone's like, well, even like Maxine defends him.

1090
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: She's talking to Bird and she's like, you can't go

1091
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: behind your man's back and have your eggs get a

1092
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: job for him, Like a man has to be a man.

1093
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: And he if he feels like you took that away

1094
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: from him, then he has nothing, which like, again, don't

1095
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: go behind people's backs and do things. That's the thing

1096
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: that it seems like everyone in this family needs to learn,

1097
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: because Ahmad does it, Miles does it, Bird does it,

1098
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: Everyone's doing it all the time. So really this family

1099
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: just needs to learn how to communicate. But I'm just like.

1100
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 3: Maxine, like, yeah.

1101
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: Why are you defending this guy who like feels so

1102
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: emasculated for like, i mean, pretty dated reasons of course,

1103
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: like this was the mental of the time. Not that

1104
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: that excuses anything, but I don't know for her to

1105
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: like lightly defend.

1106
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, as far as Lem goes, I found

1107
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 3: it frustrating because I feel like, like we were just

1108
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 3: talking about Lem's character illustrates so many realities about incarcerated

1109
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 3: black men trying to re enter society in a way

1110
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 3: that is fair, and how there's so much I mean,

1111
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 3: I think we see him encounter the most direct racism

1112
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 3: of anyone in the movie. And I appreciated at the

1113
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 3: beginning of this conversation the dynamic between him and Bird

1114
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 3: where it's like she doesn't quite get it, but she

1115
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 3: wants to, and it seems like this is something that

1116
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 3: they want to work on within their relationship and that

1117
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 3: all felt like, Wow, that was like really well done.

1118
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 3: But then I was really frustrated with where they took

1119
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,919
Speaker 3: his character from there, because he is abusive towards her,

1120
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 3: like outright, and then when he comes back at the

1121
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 3: end of the movie, he even talks with Ahmad a

1122
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 3: child and is like, I would never hit a woman,

1123
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 3: and You're like, but I've been watching this whole movie

1124
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 3: and I don't want to like put it squarely on

1125
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 3: this movie or this filmmaker, because I do think it's

1126
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 3: like an of the time thing, but like the definition

1127
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 3: of what constitutes spousal abuse and assaults very off. Like

1128
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 3: he there's no question I think in like a modern

1129
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 3: lens that what Lem did to Bird was extremely abusive.

1130
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 3: And then he came back and was like, well, I didn't,

1131
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: you know, strike her across the face and I would

1132
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 3: never do that, and that's my boundary, so it's fine,

1133
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 3: and I should be bought in back, which he was immediately,

1134
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 3: and everyone agrees. Yeah, it made that character so frustrating.

1135
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I know, like some of the things that

1136
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 4: like Bird couldn't understand was also because of how supportive

1137
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 4: her family had been to her, and she's the baby

1138
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 4: you know she's so protected, which is like, why of

1139
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 4: course you're gonna go find this dude, Like, you know,

1140
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 4: you could have been anybody else. Everybody want you and

1141
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 4: you how'd y'all meet?

1142
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 5: Was he in jail?

1143
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 4: Like?

1144
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 5: I was always like, did you meet him in jail?

1145
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:22,959
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1146
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 5: Like because I feel.

1147
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 4: Like, you know, women meet people in jail, like, which is,

1148
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 4: how'd you meet this guy? Okay?

1149
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 3: Cool?

1150
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 4: But I think Lim doesn't have family, and I think

1151
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 4: that has become his family and he has to learn

1152
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 4: how to be in a family because he's so used

1153
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 4: to defending himself, even to people who I'm sure are

1154
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 4: supposed to be in his corner. And I get that.

1155
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 4: I've seen that a lot in like some of the

1156
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 4: people I know who've been in and out of jail,

1157
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 4: they have a hard time trust in people, you know,

1158
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 4: and believing that somebody loves and cares and stuff like that.

1159
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 4: So they kind of like do the same things and

1160
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 4: they know it's them, but it's hard to like break

1161
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 4: that cycle within yourself. So I feel like he definitely

1162
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 4: was abusive and that would be in a hard household

1163
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 4: to live in, like to bring if you like you're

1164
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 4: literally trying to trying to intimidate her physically, like you're

1165
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 4: trying to scare her, You're trying to donate her physically.

1166
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 4: You're doing it. All these people know who you are,

1167
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 4: We see what you're doing. And he needs he needs

1168
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 4: I don't want to say we need more in therapy,

1169
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 4: but I felt really annoyed that getting him a job

1170
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 4: was supposed to be a bad thing. It's like, isn't

1171
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 4: that proof that you love this person so much and

1172
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 4: you want them to be okay that you would literally

1173
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 4: go to the person you shouldn't be going to to

1174
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 4: give him a job.

1175
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 5: And she's not sleeping with the man.

1176
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 4: M m.

1177
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 5: She She's not giving him no punani to get the job.

1178
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: She's just gonna go to dinner with him.

1179
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 3: That's you know, which is also like not a fair

1180
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 3: position for her to be in and a huge concession

1181
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 3: on her end, because we know she does not want

1182
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 3: to be around this guy at all exactly. And I

1183
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 3: can get as far with Lim in that situation of

1184
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 3: him being angry about the lie and angry about feeling

1185
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 3: like because it feels like Lem has a deep seated

1186
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 3: issue with feeling like someone's doing him a favor. He

1187
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 3: wants to feel like it's just happened organically or and

1188
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 3: I understand that, Like that makes sense, and I can

1189
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 3: understand like finding that out, especially from the asshole that

1190
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 3: did it, who was clearly egging him on and clearly

1191
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 3: wanted him to be angry and clearly wanted to fire him.

1192
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 3: I can understand why that would be upsetting. But it's like,

1193
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,799
Speaker 3: how is the answer to attack your wife without talking

1194
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 3: to her first? But it just feels like Lem's really

1195
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 3: left off the hook.

1196
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 4: For yeah, like okay, like we know U can't you

1197
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,520
Speaker 4: a jailbird, so we know that's what's expect.

1198
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 3: Right, Like it seems like it's unfair to Bird and

1199
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 3: to Limb because it's like Lemon is playing into the

1200
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 3: exact stereotypes that his character has been pushing against the

1201
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 3: entire movie. And then Bird and the whole family are like, oh, well,

1202
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 3: he didn't strike her across the face, so he's a

1203
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 3: good guy, which I was really Yeah, that was like

1204
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 3: I think that was like the big thing that stood

1205
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 3: out to me as like a really dated view of abuse.

1206
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 3: And then Maxine, it's so interesting because she's a very

1207
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 3: important character, but I feel like she gets the least

1208
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 3: screen time of the sisters, and.

1209
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: She doesn't have quite the same arc or subplot that

1210
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 1: Bird plus Limb and Terry plus Miles get.

1211
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 3: And I mean, maybe I'm just like in discourse brain

1212
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 3: wormhole here, So stop me if this feels off, But

1213
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 3: I was feeling like because Maxine has sort of less

1214
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 3: of an arc than the other sisters. She's pretty consistent

1215
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 3: in her views, story, her marriage is stable, like seems

1216
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 3: like she's generally like okay, and her as sort of

1217
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 3: the mother of the family and she's told you are

1218
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 3: the wise one. She seems sort of like the chosen

1219
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 3: one by her own mother, as like the new matriarch

1220
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 3: of the family. And she's also the character to deliver

1221
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 3: this kind of like retro view of gender at the

1222
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 3: end of the movie, and it felt pointed to me

1223
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 3: that it's like the new matriarch and the only mother

1224
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 3: of this group of sisters thus far is also the

1225
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 3: one that thinks that you should let a man be

1226
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,680
Speaker 3: a man and don't get in the way of him

1227
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 3: being a man. It just felt like symbolic in a

1228
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 3: way that felt a little icky to me, like and

1229
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,600
Speaker 3: it didn't wreck anything, but it just it feels like

1230
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 3: again Team Terry of like how it's sort of I

1231
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:04,799
Speaker 3: don't know. I think led to believe that, like Terry's

1232
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 3: professional life is part of why her marriage doesn't work,

1233
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 3: and it's Maxine's commitment to her family that is why

1234
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 3: she is the chosen one, and that she because she

1235
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 3: lets a man be a man. She's the only one

1236
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 3: that has a stable marriage and.

1237
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 5: She don't just have a dar.

1238
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,799
Speaker 3: Right, which is fine, but it's like it just felt

1239
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 3: weird for the one sister that was the stay at

1240
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 3: home mom to be the moral authority.

1241
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 4: In who's not in the act, goes to the world,

1242
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 4: doesn't have to pay any bills, doesn't have like if

1243
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 4: she goes to fans, she's just gonna call Terry, like

1244
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 4: you know, so.

1245
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 3: That is true.

1246
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 4: I feel like her role in the movie is totally

1247
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 4: momb like, Like even when she has that scene with

1248
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 4: a mod talking about like what he wants to do

1249
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 4: and how he wants to get the family together when

1250
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 4: they're walking. I love that scene too, Like I was like, oh,

1251
01:11:58,080 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 4: it's so cool. Cool.

1252
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: She's like I was in labor with you for twenty

1253
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,640
Speaker 1: three hours, forty five minutes and ten seconds, and he

1254
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 1: like recites it along with her as if she tells

1255
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: him this at least once a week.

1256
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 3: Classic mom behavior.

1257
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 4: My mom used to do that too with my sister.

1258
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 4: She's like, you guys are not three years apart. You're

1259
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 4: eleven months, twelve days, and like, what is it thirteen

1260
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 4: minutes or something like that. It's like it's like she

1261
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 4: has all of the like how far apart we are?

1262
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 4: So like I love that, but I'm just like, her

1263
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 4: role is really mother. It's like mother, but it's not

1264
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 4: real without the responsibility of mother.

1265
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 3: Well, I don't even have an issue with her being

1266
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 3: a stay at home mom. I feel like anytime though

1267
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 3: that you have a spread of characters and you have

1268
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 3: a stay at home mother, and you have a professional

1269
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 3: who doesn't have kids, or you have like a spread

1270
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 3: of different kinds of characters, when any one character is

1271
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 3: made to be like the moral voice of the movie,

1272
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:00,679
Speaker 3: because I feel like there's a lot of modern movies

1273
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 3: that have the reverse problem, where it's like being the

1274
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 3: childless professional, you are the moral authority, which is also

1275
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 3: unfair to people making other choices. But it's just like

1276
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 3: any anytime one character has made the moral authority, it

1277
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 3: feels pointed, even if it's not quite intended that way.

1278
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell if it was intended, but I felt

1279
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 3: like the stay at home on being like I'm doing

1280
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 3: the right thing because I'm doing what a woman is

1281
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 3: supposed to do, and it just felt like it erased

1282
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 3: other stuff, which that little resimplification.

1283
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: But no, but I agree, and not only like her

1284
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: being poisoned aous with a moral authority character, but her

1285
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: being the only one of the three sisters to not

1286
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: have a more distinct arc and like thing that she

1287
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: was dealing love. So to me, it feels like, oh,

1288
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: the mother character, like we don't really need to check

1289
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: in with her and see what is happening in her life.

1290
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: She'll be in scenes, but like we don't really need

1291
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: to give her like a fleshed out story line. It

1292
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,879
Speaker 1: just also feels some stuff right.

1293
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 3: Which probably has to do with a man reading the movies,

1294
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 3: like good she's good mom.

1295
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably literally has no clue what are Yeah, we

1296
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 4: probably literally couldn't even tell you, like what their life

1297
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 4: would be like as a new.

1298
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: Mom, right because she has two young kids a mod's sister.

1299
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: I know, we learn her name, but also she's such

1300
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: a nothing character. She's like in a couple of scenes

1301
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: where we see her eating, but I don't think she

1302
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: has any lines. Maybe it's just because like she's six,

1303
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: and they're like, you don't child actors enough lines?

1304
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 4: We give the grand she's so cute, but already.

1305
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, she gets no anything. And then but yeah, why

1306
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 1: isn't there a story where Maxine is dealing with something

1307
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: in her life, whether it is related to motherhood, whether

1308
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: it's related to her relationship with Kenny, maybe it's her

1309
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: relationship with her son, Like why isn't there something more

1310
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 1: that we're given? But instead she just is kind of

1311
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: like popping in now and then to be like, let

1312
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: me reinforce rigid gender expectations, okay, bye.

1313
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't And it felt also pointed that

1314
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:18,759
Speaker 3: that conversation is between Maxine and Bird after Bird finds

1315
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 3: out that she's pregnant, because now Bird's going to be

1316
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 3: a mother, and she's like, let me pass down this

1317
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:30,599
Speaker 3: institutional maternal knowledge. Let men do whatever they want. Bye, Like,

1318
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 3: in a way, I don't know, it felt very that

1319
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 3: seems specifically, even though I liked the sister dynamic, but

1320
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 3: that seems specifically felt the most obviously written by a

1321
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 3: man to me, because even if that is the way

1322
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 3: that a woman feels. As a writer, I feel like

1323
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 3: there would be more nuance to it than just like

1324
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 3: a man needs to be a man, and what's happening

1325
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 3: to Terry And what happened to Terry is because she

1326
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 3: didn't let a man be a man. And you're like,

1327
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 3: that's your sister, dude, come on.

1328
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: I find the advice should have been like, look, sister,

1329
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 1: like men are so fragile and they're so easily emasculated,

1330
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: so you need to uh find a therapist for your

1331
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 1: husband or like convince him to go to therapy or

1332
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: something like that should have been the advice.

1333
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it would be like, or y'all need to

1334
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 4: have better communication, right, because that needs a really talk

1335
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 4: because yeah, on different pages.

1336
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, because that scene also felt like Maxine was

1337
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 3: like tacitly okay with how abusive Limb was towards Bird,

1338
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 3: and right away that also felt unfair to a character

1339
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 3: we love. I don't know. Yeah, Maxine is all over

1340
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 3: the place for me because it's like it's vivid a fox,

1341
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 3: So I'm on board, right, it's gonna be really hard

1342
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 3: to turn me against this, right love. But her actions

1343
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 3: to me are because it's like she's obviously a great mom,

1344
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 3: and it seems like she really enjoys being a stay

1345
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 3: at home mom, which is great, but it yeah, there

1346
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,719
Speaker 3: was like this sort of edge of judgment towards women

1347
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:11,559
Speaker 3: who are not stay at home moms, and I feel

1348
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 3: like that also tied into I think Mama Joe is

1349
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 3: a stay at home mother as well, and she was

1350
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 3: the person who held the family together and she passes

1351
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 3: that role on to the stay at home mother, and

1352
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 3: it just is I don't know. I mean, I'm sure

1353
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 3: that that does happen in families, but it would have

1354
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 3: been cool to see it explored a little more than it's.

1355
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 1: Oh, we do get a little mentioned from Mama Joe

1356
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 1: that she she said like I worked on my hands

1357
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 1: and knees, like I think she said something like cleaning

1358
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: up after white folk. Oh yes, yes, But it feels

1359
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 1: like maybe she did that in response to her husband's

1360
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: gambling and they were in debt, So maybe she was

1361
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 1: a stay at home mom for a while but then

1362
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: had to start working for those reasons unclear. We don't

1363
01:17:56,240 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: get a whole lot of the details of her backstory.

1364
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 3: And then is it also Maxine. Now I feel like

1365
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,759
Speaker 3: I'm becoming anti vaxine. It's not how I have to feel,

1366
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 3: But isn't it also a Maxine who's like, well, when

1367
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 3: our father got us deep into debt gambling, mom took

1368
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 3: care of it and she didn't say a thing about it,

1369
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 3: and she didn't humiliate or emasculate him. Oh I think

1370
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 3: it is caused that problem and she was right to

1371
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 3: do that.

1372
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: And it's like, it is not women's responsibility to clean

1373
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:29,759
Speaker 1: up the messes that men make.

1374
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 3: Right, And that wasn't fair to Mama Joe, But it

1375
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 3: felt like the movie felt like it was.

1376
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 4: Right, like that was her responsibility as a wife.

1377
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: Right very nineties in before mentality for sure. The other

1378
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 1: man who I feel like has really let off the

1379
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: hook is Reverend Williams, who is a pervert. He's always

1380
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:56,520
Speaker 1: trying to kiss women without their consent. He's always saying gross,

1381
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:58,600
Speaker 1: like very sexually charged things.

1382
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:01,760
Speaker 3: Such as meat. He called the meat at one point.

1383
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, we're about to eat these delicious

1384
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: legs under the table, I mean on the table, and

1385
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: it's like, right, sir, But this is like played as

1386
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: a joke by the movie, like, oh yeah, Reverend, he's

1387
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: a creep. But isn't it funny? And it's like, no,

1388
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:19,919
Speaker 1: get this guy away.

1389
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 3: That felt very nineties to me. I was like, that's

1390
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 3: very like nineties comedy.

1391
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:30,959
Speaker 4: Nineties for sure, because y'all remember Martin, You remember Jerome.

1392
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 4: I had Jerome in the house watching out. That's all

1393
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 4: he did was being nasty. All his character was being

1394
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 4: a nasty man, and it was it was a joke,

1395
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 4: like it wasn't like, yo, like we need to talk

1396
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 4: to this dude. He's feeling all the girls in the

1397
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 4: club like we gotta stop you, like, you know, what

1398
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 4: are you doing? They're not gonna come back out if

1399
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 4: you keep treating him like this? Why are you treating

1400
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 4: women like this? And that's your whole person out that's

1401
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 4: that was his person like his character.

1402
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's so many. It's like god, I feel

1403
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 3: across like for generations, there have been so many famous

1404
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 3: like comedy characters or just sitcom characters that are just

1405
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 3: like man who sexually harasses people. I mean, it's it's

1406
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 3: the quagmire paradox to bring things to family guy for

1407
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 3: no reason. But it's just like that's the joke is

1408
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 3: that he's creepy and awful to women, which is not

1409
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:30,960
Speaker 3: unique to this movie certainly, but it's like, well, if

1410
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 3: the cast didn't confirm that this movie is firmly in

1411
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven, that character does.

1412
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 1: I want to rattle off a couple other very like

1413
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 1: nineties mentality things that appear in the movie. We've got

1414
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 1: let's see Bird's real name is Ryla, but there's voice

1415
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: over this says we call her Bird because she used

1416
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 1: to be skinny, and it's like, uh, I'm sorry, I'm

1417
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: looking at Na Long right now, and she's thin, what

1418
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 1: do you? I don't, I don't know. There's like a

1419
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: very sex work shamy mentality because there's a reference to

1420
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: how Faith used to be a stripper and everyone's very

1421
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: very judgmental of that. And she's also and we've talked

1422
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:15,919
Speaker 1: about this before, like because there's such a huge stigma

1423
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: around sex work, and even people who have done sex

1424
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: work may internalize that shame because of just all the

1425
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: external shame. Because she says at a certain point, like

1426
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 1: she's talking about her career goals with Miles, and she's like,

1427
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:33,600
Speaker 1: I want to dance, No, I mean really dance, Like

1428
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 1: I want to do Broadway musicals, as if like doing

1429
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: erotic dance is not quote unquote real work kind of thing,

1430
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,600
Speaker 1: so she's like internalizing that.

1431
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 3: I think there's like a number of tropes attached to

1432
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 3: her as a former occurrent. It's unclear stripper or sex

1433
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 3: worker to any capacity, because it's also implied that, like

1434
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 3: I think this is another common trope with sex workers,

1435
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 3: is like they're gonna steal your boyfriend. It's like, yeah, right,

1436
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 3: they do not want to fuck your weird husband, like

1437
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:12,639
Speaker 3: believe it. And also that they're like reckless and bad

1438
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 3: with money and these agents of chaos, and the way

1439
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 3: that I think Faith is pretty uncritically shown. And I

1440
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 3: think that Faith is a bad cousin like she is,

1441
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 3: and I understand why Terry fucking hates her, but it

1442
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 3: feels like the way that she's characterized is also like

1443
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 3: pretty steeped in a lot of tropes around, like erotic

1444
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 3: dancers and strippers in general, where it's like realistically in

1445
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 3: the real world, Like I don't know, I think it's

1446
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 3: more interesting if it's just like she is interested in

1447
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 3: Miles because he takes her art seriously and she takes

1448
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 3: his art seriously, and there's no one in their family

1449
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 3: that feels that way. So that connection even makes total

1450
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 3: sense to me, but it feels like there's just like

1451
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,759
Speaker 3: tropes around it that made it messier than it needed

1452
01:22:57,760 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 3: to be made.

1453
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 4: Sure, And I think she carries that shame too, like

1454
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 4: she you know, when she goes in the house, like

1455
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 4: I think Mama Joel's like, you can stay, like and

1456
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,639
Speaker 4: everybody's like you can stay, you can stay. She knows

1457
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 4: she's not wanted. She knowss like you know, she's kind

1458
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:16,640
Speaker 4: of not supposed to be there, and she has to

1459
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 4: be like validated in that space. I think it's like

1460
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 4: Maxine who validates.

1461
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 7: Her yeah, and yeah, it is a little all over

1462
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 7: the place with like okay, now, but you're gonna let

1463
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 7: the whole stay, like y'all are obsessed with the approval

1464
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 7: of men, but but she can stay.

1465
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 3: It's confusing and also it's just like God, faith, if

1466
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 3: there's one thing you shouldn't do, it's first of all, don't.

1467
01:23:39,160 --> 01:23:40,600
Speaker 4: Of all the husbands.

1468
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 3: Sex with them, any of them, but much less the

1469
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:48,760
Speaker 3: person who has agreed to host you. No, no, all.

1470
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: I almost feel and maybe I'm just reading this incorrectly,

1471
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 1: but it almost feels to me like her little affair

1472
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:03,440
Speaker 1: with Miles is like see Terry, this is what happens

1473
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,760
Speaker 1: when you're not more supportive to your man, you know,

1474
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 1: And because even she at the final family dinner when

1475
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 1: I think Maxine says something like, Terry, you need to

1476
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 1: worry about your own husband because he's out there sleeping

1477
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 1: around and she's like, was that it? Like? Did I

1478
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,559
Speaker 1: not like care for you well enough? Was I not

1479
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,559
Speaker 1: a good enough wife? Kind of thing? And then he says, like,

1480
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 1: you know, we just haven't been happy in a long time.

1481
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 1: We used to have fun with each other, and she

1482
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,799
Speaker 1: replies with like, yeah, I guess, I don't know what happened,

1483
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 1: but like I guess.

1484
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 3: And it's dropped as if because it's like all of

1485
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 3: that can be true and a relationship, and it doesn't

1486
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 3: justify what he did, and it doesn't mean that Terry

1487
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 3: brought it on herself, like they weren't happy, So it's

1488
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 3: overly simplicity to say talk about it, but like you

1489
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 3: can't just be like, well, so I had no choice

1490
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 3: but to fuck your cousin, like, yes, you did, you did, Miles,

1491
01:24:58,439 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 3: you did.

1492
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit more about the Gina

1493
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: rivera character, and I want to especially talk about it

1494
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 1: as it relates to a piece that you wrote in

1495
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 1: Pop Sugar called the Struggle for Afro Latinx Visibility in

1496
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 1: media still exists. I highly recommend everyone read it. Will

1497
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: link it in the show notes. But the reason it's

1498
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 1: relevant here is so the actor Gina Rivera, who plays

1499
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 1: Faith in the movie. This actor is mixed African American

1500
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 1: and Puerto Rican. Her character does not appear to be

1501
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: Afro Latina in any way. So it's an example of

1502
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 1: an actor's Latini dad being erased, which is what your

1503
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 1: piece is largely about. How Afro LATINX people are erased

1504
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 1: from media about and from LATINX communities because the media

1505
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:01,640
Speaker 1: favors lighter skinned LATINX people. How Afro LATINX people are

1506
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 1: erased from Black communities because like in the US, for example,

1507
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 1: black people, and I mean this happens all around the world,

1508
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 1: but Black people are lumped together as a monolith and

1509
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: just treated as though they all have the same culture

1510
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 1: in the same background, the way that many marginalized communities

1511
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: are treated as a monolith. And you talk about how,

1512
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of prominent LATINX folks in media, artists, athletes,

1513
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, things like that their Latini dad is erased.

1514
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 1: And this is just another example because I feel like

1515
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: her character could have easily been Latina because she's related

1516
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,719
Speaker 1: to them on her mother's side, but like her dad

1517
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,720
Speaker 1: could have been Afro Latinos. So I don't know if

1518
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 1: you want to speak to that any further, but it's

1519
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 1: just something I wanted to bring up.

1520
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, thank you so much for that.

1521
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:55,519
Speaker 3: Check it out.

1522
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed writing that piece. It was like a

1523
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 4: lot of drama even getting there because of so like

1524
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:08,160
Speaker 4: it's like such a charged conversation in the global black community,

1525
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 4: like all the nuances, Like I went viral in the

1526
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 4: preparation of that in a negative way, like I got

1527
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 4: dragged on Twitter. Oh now it's extra. But he lived

1528
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 4: and I lived and I lived, So yeah, like that's

1529
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 4: an interesting conversation. Like personally, my mom's African American, my

1530
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:31,879
Speaker 4: father is the Latino one. And a lot of times

1531
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 4: I always like press Puerto Ricans because it's like, Okay,

1532
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:36,880
Speaker 4: you're Puerto Rican, but are you black Puerto Rican or

1533
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 4: white Puerto Rican? Because like you know, Loisa exists, like

1534
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 4: it's like a black town, you know, like which part

1535
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 4: are tudl Schomberg was from Santuse, Puerto Rico, like, and

1536
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 4: we had the Schomberg Museum that's in Harlem right now,

1537
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:51,759
Speaker 4: and a lot of people don't even know that he's

1538
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 4: Puerto Rican and like he came from Puerto Rico and

1539
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 4: that's where he started archiving black history. I think the

1540
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:02,839
Speaker 4: conversation is new a little bit, and I don't know why,

1541
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 4: because when we think of history, Langston Hughes was working

1542
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 4: with Afro Puerto Rican artists and like building with them,

1543
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 4: and we have this history of collectives. But in modern

1544
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 4: times it doesn't feel that way. It doesn't feel like

1545
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 4: you can talk about blackness on a global scale. And

1546
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:27,799
Speaker 4: then media and film is very very tricky. I notice,

1547
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 4: like when it's a LATINX character, they're usually like they

1548
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 4: can't be black. It's like supposed to be that. Afro

1549
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:38,800
Speaker 4: Latinos are not supposed to exist, you know. And if

1550
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 4: you are black, you are African American. That's all you

1551
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 4: get to be.

1552
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:45,679
Speaker 1: I can think of exactly one mainstream movie that prominently

1553
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:49,880
Speaker 1: features an Afro Latino character that is identified that way,

1554
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 1: and it's into the Spider Verse and across the Spider Verse,

1555
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: and that's Mars.

1556
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:57,600
Speaker 4: That's not even a perfect situation because the guy is

1557
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 4: an African American character and a lot of the characteristics,

1558
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 4: like his family is technically not an Afro Latino family,

1559
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:09,040
Speaker 4: Like he has a white Latina mom and an African

1560
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 4: American father, so he's kind of Afro Latino. But Afro

1561
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 4: Latinos have black parents. That's normal, Like it's normal to

1562
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 4: have black parents in Latin America. Like that's like a

1563
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 4: very normal thing. And I think it goes down to,

1564
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 4: just like the storytellers, it's really difficult for Afro LATINX

1565
01:29:29,479 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 4: people to get into these opportunities. As you guys know,

1566
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 4: Hollywood is a grind for any person, but having all

1567
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 4: these different identities, it gets really difficult to explain to

1568
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 4: Americans who you are when as a black person, you're

1569
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:48,639
Speaker 4: not supposed to have all of this stuff going on

1570
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,439
Speaker 4: for me, Like that's why I started my company, Black

1571
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 4: Tina Media, because I wanted us to be celebrated. I

1572
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 4: wanted our stories to be acknowledged when it comes to this, Like,

1573
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 4: I happy she was cast for the role period, and

1574
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 4: a lot of like Afro LATINX people in general, if

1575
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:12,080
Speaker 4: they are black presenting and identify as black people, they

1576
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 4: usually are playing African American characters right.

1577
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,759
Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't know the distinction between

1578
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 1: someone who is Afro LATINX and African American.

1579
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I will fully admit that I did not

1580
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 3: have a good understanding of Afro Latin X representation because

1581
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:35,599
Speaker 3: I hadn't seen it really and because like you were

1582
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:38,600
Speaker 3: just saying, NAIDI. Yet, like the only sort of allegedly

1583
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 3: Afro LATINX character that we have in pop culture right

1584
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 3: now is still pretty muddled and misunderstood because who are

1585
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:49,519
Speaker 3: the storytellers. It's still vustly white people.

1586
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 4: They're They're like Celia Cruz. I feel like she's the

1587
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 4: most known Afro Latina in the world sphere, Like her

1588
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 4: music is all over the world, Like she is a

1589
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:10,200
Speaker 4: world renowned name, Christina Milian. She's Cuban, she's black, but

1590
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:15,760
Speaker 4: she's also lumped as like African American. But like, oh,

1591
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,839
Speaker 4: she's she's mixed. It's just like, oh, she must be mixed,

1592
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 4: you know, And the fact that she is Cuban is

1593
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 4: enough to make her mix.

1594
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,240
Speaker 5: She doesn't actually have to be like not because.

1595
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,280
Speaker 4: She's mixed for real, for real, But to be mixed

1596
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:32,599
Speaker 4: is to not be African American Like there's like that

1597
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 4: I've noticed that because people like, oh, you're mixed. It's

1598
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 4: like I'm not mixed, Like my father is a dark

1599
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 4: Sian black man. My mom is a dark skin African

1600
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,880
Speaker 4: American woman. But it's like, oh, no, you're mixed because

1601
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 4: your dad is Panamanian, right, And it's like.

1602
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 1: Be black and Panama Superama man.

1603
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 5: You need to go to and see all the black

1604
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 5: people that you think.

1605
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:58,440
Speaker 4: Don't exist, Like yeah, so that, and then in Hollywood,

1606
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,720
Speaker 4: I think like it's like erase sure of like just

1607
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 4: blackness in general, like we're not supposed to have culture,

1608
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:06,360
Speaker 4: Like we're not supposed to have nuanced culture because even

1609
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 4: in African American film and television, it never gets that

1610
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 4: deep unless you're talking about Daughters of the Dust where

1611
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 4: they talk about Gligichi ancestry and that they wouldn't let

1612
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 4: her make another move for twenty years after she did that.

1613
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 4: Julie Dash a Dash she's killing it now. Also, is

1614
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:29,520
Speaker 4: it Casey Lennon.

1615
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 1: Case Yes, Yeah, we've covered that.

1616
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:38,760
Speaker 4: Yes, so she did Ease Value, which talks about like

1617
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 4: the creole ancestry. We have some of these films, but

1618
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:47,320
Speaker 4: blackness in film is supposed to be like you from

1619
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 4: the South, and in the South, it's not all the same,

1620
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:55,520
Speaker 4: Like they're still not a monolism, not the same as Louisiana.

1621
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 4: Which part of Louisiana you're coming from, not sing Texas,

1622
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:02,879
Speaker 4: Like you got the black appellations too, black appellation history,

1623
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 4: like Tony Morrison talks about like all these black appellations.

1624
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 4: So I think in general, when we talk about blackness,

1625
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 4: we're not allowed to have nuance. And when black people

1626
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 4: get a little bit of power, there's all of this

1627
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 4: pressure to just like get like a tap on the

1628
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 4: shoulder by like the white executive and be like, good job,

1629
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 4: black person. So people kind of erase themselves. And this

1630
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 4: happens in the Latino community all the time, like people

1631
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 4: will erase themselves before they get a chance to even

1632
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 4: be like erasists, Like I don't even want to go

1633
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 4: there because I don't want to have to have a

1634
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 4: conversation or I don't want them to say no, or

1635
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:45,720
Speaker 4: maybe I've tried and somebody else said no and don't.

1636
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 4: I don't want to have to go there. I just

1637
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,479
Speaker 4: want to go straight to the top. I want to

1638
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,200
Speaker 4: get the budget and I want them to say yes.

1639
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of things going on, but I

1640
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 4: think we need more nuance in black film in general. Sure, also,

1641
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 4: is George Tillman Junior? Is he qualified to have an

1642
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 4: Afro LATINX character. A lot of African Americans are so

1643
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:08,360
Speaker 4: confused when it comes to Afrolatane that I've worked with

1644
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:12,639
Speaker 4: African American production companies. They didn't get it. They couldn't

1645
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 4: understand how a black person had an immigrant experience, because

1646
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:19,120
Speaker 4: the immigrant experience is usually like you're not allowed to

1647
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 4: be an immigrant if you're black, So it's like, how

1648
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 4: could you You don't understand what's going through even though

1649
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 4: the people who are getting deported the most are black people.

1650
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:30,400
Speaker 4: It's Haitians. It's literally Haitians getting deported the most, like

1651
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:32,960
Speaker 4: at the border, like those are the people. So it's crazy,

1652
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:33,799
Speaker 4: isn't it crazy?

1653
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 3: I just think about how many immigrant stories we get

1654
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 3: in mainstream media that are like hyper specific white immigrant communities.

1655
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 3: Where you can have a whole movie about Swedish immigrants,

1656
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:45,439
Speaker 3: you can have a whole movie about Italian immigrants, about

1657
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 3: Irish immigrants, And there's famous movies across the board about

1658
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 3: very specific groups of white immigrants in the US and

1659
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 3: you don't get that for a.

1660
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: Movie called Brooklyn about sorry those like Irish immigrants, Like

1661
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:00,800
Speaker 1: have you been to Brooklyn and see what it looks like?

1662
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 5: Right?

1663
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:01,760
Speaker 4: Right?

1664
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's Nadia. I know it's like inherent to

1665
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,000
Speaker 3: what you do and you know it better than anybody,

1666
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,640
Speaker 3: but it seems to have It's just so much to

1667
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 3: do with who holds the institutional power and who holds

1668
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:16,200
Speaker 3: the money, and those are white people who have no

1669
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:19,200
Speaker 3: understanding of these issues, and so it puts so much

1670
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 3: pressure on Afro LATINX creators, like it's an unfair amount

1671
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:25,080
Speaker 3: of pressure to be under.

1672
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 4: It's and also we have to take accountability for how

1673
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:32,360
Speaker 4: we present ourselves. Like I've seen stuff created by the

1674
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:36,480
Speaker 4: LATINX community is full of tropes and you know, stereotypes,

1675
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 4: and it's like this you got the budget, and this

1676
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 4: is what you made. This is where you decided to

1677
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:46,840
Speaker 4: put the budget. You know. So it's it is. I

1678
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:48,800
Speaker 4: don't want to just say, oh, the white people they

1679
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:51,040
Speaker 4: got all the control. They always doing this to us,

1680
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 4: you know, because it's also white Latinos. White Latinos have

1681
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 4: a lot of power, they have a lot of money.

1682
01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 4: You know, why aren't white Latinos supporting Latinos the same

1683
01:36:01,280 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 4: reason why white Americans don't support black Americans. Like it's

1684
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:08,720
Speaker 4: like it's the same thing. But I think we have

1685
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 4: to hold ourselves accountable because I've seen just living all

1686
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,080
Speaker 4: around the world for the past like four years and

1687
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 4: being in all these different communities. It's like I'm like, oh, wow,

1688
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 4: I see how our own actions are negatively affecting us.

1689
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 4: Like we are invested in the same systems killing us

1690
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 4: because we think this is going to help us. You know,

1691
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, let me play the game. It's like no,

1692
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 4: you're getting played. You're just getting played. So I don't know.

1693
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:38,639
Speaker 4: It's not like I have like an answer to it.

1694
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:42,839
Speaker 4: We just need more diversity. People need to be more

1695
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 4: confident and be more bold in storytelling and take more chances.

1696
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:52,559
Speaker 4: And also people want happy films. Everything doesn't have to

1697
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:56,920
Speaker 4: be like the next specsed American screenplay. It's just like

1698
01:36:57,200 --> 01:37:00,280
Speaker 4: people want to laugh. Can we be entertained? Do you

1699
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 4: have to kill us to entertain us? Do we have

1700
01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 4: do people have to die? You know, like why can't

1701
01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:11,519
Speaker 4: we have entertainment that's like just purely entertaining with no trauma.

1702
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 4: Because a lot of the stuff I've seen in the

1703
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:18,599
Speaker 4: last like five eight years. Everything is so sad and

1704
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 4: everybody's dying, you know, and it's just like can we

1705
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 4: just be happy? And but people are like no, I

1706
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 4: want to show that Latino's the all we do is

1707
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 4: not party, dude? We a party people. What's wrong with

1708
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:36,799
Speaker 4: having a party? Like it's like we're no type people,

1709
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 4: Like that's what we do is key? Key? All right?

1710
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:42,559
Speaker 4: Now I'm in Martha's vineyard and what the trainey doing

1711
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 4: with the Jamaica I'm doing what the black people do.

1712
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 5: We having a cookout on the beach.

1713
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:51,640
Speaker 4: There's a cookout, bringing grill. Make it like this is

1714
01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:55,719
Speaker 4: what we do. This is our culture, Like it's okay,

1715
01:37:56,080 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 4: Like you know, so I feel like just looking deep

1716
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:02,720
Speaker 4: into ourselves and be like where am I seeking white validation?

1717
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:05,000
Speaker 4: Why do I need to present myself in this way?

1718
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 4: Like who is this for? Is this for me? And

1719
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:12,280
Speaker 4: I feel like as humans we have to always be,

1720
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,800
Speaker 4: you know, critiquing ourselves so we can be authentic.

1721
01:38:16,479 --> 01:38:19,800
Speaker 1: And that's like absolutely, yeah, thank you so much for

1722
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:21,720
Speaker 1: sharing your perspective on all that.

1723
01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:23,320
Speaker 4: Thanks for asking.

1724
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:28,599
Speaker 1: Of course, we're fans, We're are fans. Does anyone have

1725
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:30,840
Speaker 1: anything else they want to talk about.

1726
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:35,200
Speaker 3: I just wanted to shout out because we obviously have

1727
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 3: discussed George Tillman, Junior, prominant black director still working during

1728
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 3: his second Saturn Return. A lot of things to love

1729
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 3: about George Tillman Jr. I was looking into the production

1730
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 3: team and I think this is a rare example of

1731
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:54,040
Speaker 3: we have a majority black production team on this movie

1732
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:58,640
Speaker 3: as well, I will say excus heavily male. However, it

1733
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 3: seems like George Tillman Jr. Was very invested in having

1734
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:04,240
Speaker 3: a heavily black production crew as well. I don't know

1735
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:06,519
Speaker 3: about the actual crew, but in terms of the highest level,

1736
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:09,640
Speaker 3: we have majority black producers. I believe we have a

1737
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 3: black cinematographer, but there's two Paul Elliotts who are cinematographers,

1738
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:17,480
Speaker 3: so I'm not totally sure which person. And most interestingly

1739
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 3: to me, this movie has a black editor, a man

1740
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,639
Speaker 3: named John Carter, and I read a little bit about him,

1741
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 3: and he's like historically significant and really fucking cool. He

1742
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:32,439
Speaker 3: was the first African American film editor to work in

1743
01:39:32,479 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 3: New York ever, so he was working since the fifties

1744
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 3: and he's like a famous figure in the editing community,

1745
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:41,800
Speaker 3: which I am not a part of, So I had

1746
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 3: not heard of him before, but I really enjoyed learning

1747
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:47,519
Speaker 3: about him. He started on The Ed Sullivan Show and

1748
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:52,080
Speaker 3: then transitioned to majority black film later in his career

1749
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 3: and is just like this very famous, respected guy who

1750
01:39:56,120 --> 01:39:58,559
Speaker 3: just died five years ago at the age of ninety five.

1751
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:01,479
Speaker 3: So I just wanted to shout out John Carter because

1752
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:03,439
Speaker 3: I just I hadn't heard of him before.

1753
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:06,599
Speaker 4: That's beautiful shout out to him. I think a lot

1754
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:09,240
Speaker 4: like I heard because when I was a little kid,

1755
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:11,679
Speaker 4: you know how they say, oh, I never saw myself,

1756
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:13,320
Speaker 4: like a lot of like black actors will be like

1757
01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:15,840
Speaker 4: I never saw myself on DD and that's why I'm acting.

1758
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 4: So when I started said, oh, I'm going to be

1759
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:24,040
Speaker 4: an actor, I really thought I was like, I'm gonna

1760
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 4: be in all the dopest films because I saw so

1761
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 4: many dope like black films, black people in TV. My

1762
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:38,360
Speaker 4: mom she watched a lot of television, and she loved

1763
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 4: watching like black characters but also like women. So Zena

1764
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 4: Charmed The Parkers, Girlfriends Half and all those up. Like,

1765
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:54,040
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that it was so bad because that

1766
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:55,880
Speaker 4: part of my life. I was like growing up to

1767
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 4: Steve Harvey show, you know, and I didn't realize that

1768
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:02,120
Speaker 4: these actors were grossly underpaid. I didn't realize they were

1769
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 4: not getting invites to Emmy's even though they had they

1770
01:41:05,320 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 4: all had hit shows, Like I didn't know they weren't

1771
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 4: being treated at the same as like their white counterparts.

1772
01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:15,600
Speaker 4: But I learned like a lot of it was independent

1773
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 4: and they would have different deals in the way the

1774
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 4: business worked was different in the nineties and now, even

1775
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:28,080
Speaker 4: though black people are working at I guess higher levels,

1776
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:33,200
Speaker 4: in a way, there's almost like less creative control in

1777
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:36,240
Speaker 4: a lot of spaces, and so it's like you're not

1778
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:40,360
Speaker 4: going to have like a black film crew because this

1779
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:43,200
Speaker 4: is not your show, Like you're the showrunner, but you

1780
01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,519
Speaker 4: have to hire like this whole white crew that's your crew.

1781
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:51,280
Speaker 4: So everything is being translated differently, whereas like with Half

1782
01:41:51,320 --> 01:41:53,680
Speaker 4: and Half, it's like it's like all of these like

1783
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:57,400
Speaker 4: they get to change the lines, like living single, they

1784
01:41:57,400 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 4: get to they were really involved and like the writing

1785
01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:04,800
Speaker 4: and stuff. Even in Charmed Hoo's Phoebe what's her name,

1786
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:09,439
Speaker 4: Melisa Molana, Oh my god, Yeah, she was talking about

1787
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 4: how like they were really integral into writing things in Charmed,

1788
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:18,600
Speaker 4: and Charmed had a lot of like normal black characters,

1789
01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 4: Like they weren't a bunch of tropes. It wasn't like, oh,

1790
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:23,800
Speaker 4: the scary black parents gonna come up the street. Like

1791
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:27,280
Speaker 4: one of the episodes was a guy who had lost

1792
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:29,600
Speaker 4: his wife. They had recently lost the wife, and the

1793
01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:34,160
Speaker 4: little boy developed powers and technology, and the father was

1794
01:42:34,200 --> 01:42:36,960
Speaker 4: held hostage and that's how they ended up finding the

1795
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:40,679
Speaker 4: sisters getting little chills of obviously I love movies with sisters.

1796
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:44,280
Speaker 4: And they had to like save him and like tell

1797
01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:47,400
Speaker 4: him like, hey, your powers are good, like you don't

1798
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:49,760
Speaker 4: have to hide this, you don't have to feel bad

1799
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 4: about having these powers. And I don't know if they

1800
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:54,400
Speaker 4: like stripped the powers or made it, but the father

1801
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:59,040
Speaker 4: was like a corporate guy, like a nerdy corporate dad

1802
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:01,679
Speaker 4: who had no who had to handle all of this stuff.

1803
01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 4: He was not in the magic. And there were many

1804
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:09,639
Speaker 4: instances of like black characters, you know, I in my opinion,

1805
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 4: even when they had like the African like even though

1806
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:15,600
Speaker 4: they made the African stuff a little scary, like I

1807
01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:18,240
Speaker 4: think they made like one of the guys he had

1808
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:22,880
Speaker 4: like the Vudan priestess was like scary and like you know,

1809
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:26,800
Speaker 4: but but it didn't feel like I felt like I

1810
01:43:26,840 --> 01:43:28,840
Speaker 4: had a space in that show too, Like I would

1811
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:30,880
Speaker 4: be like I could be friends with one of the sisters,

1812
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:32,599
Speaker 4: Like I didn't feel like I had to go over

1813
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 4: here because they wouldn't let me in the house and

1814
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 4: they would in Kiki. I was like, Oh, Phoebe's gonna

1815
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:39,519
Speaker 4: be my best Sie, Like me and Phoebe are going

1816
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:43,960
Speaker 4: on the spade, Like I'm gonna get proved of like

1817
01:43:44,040 --> 01:43:46,760
Speaker 4: me and work so hard, you know, because she she

1818
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 4: only likes hard workers.

1819
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:52,120
Speaker 3: Like so I was obsessed with Phoebe, but I feel

1820
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:54,520
Speaker 3: like I'm more of a Piper, and it breaks my heart.

1821
01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:56,840
Speaker 3: Piper was dope.

1822
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:59,360
Speaker 4: They did a good job with her art.

1823
01:43:59,080 --> 01:44:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she made shit happen. Someone had to do it.

1824
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:04,760
Speaker 4: She became that big sis she did.

1825
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 1: I've never seen the show. I'm so sorry, Oh my gosh.

1826
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 4: So good.

1827
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:12,680
Speaker 3: It doesn't all hold up, but the parts that do

1828
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:13,599
Speaker 3: are wonderful.

1829
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 4: It gets depressing after a while. It's like, okay, guys,

1830
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:21,120
Speaker 4: whoa Like what's happening? Everything is sad. Everybody's dying all

1831
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:23,240
Speaker 4: the time, Like what happened to Like.

1832
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:27,080
Speaker 3: The Warlock boyfriends, like I want sister conflict and I

1833
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 3: want Warlock boyfriends that disappear after a week.

1834
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 4: And fairies. We want fairies. We want to find gold,

1835
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 4: like come on, like enough with the scary underworld magic school.

1836
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:42,840
Speaker 4: Who wants to steal this kid? What kidnapping?

1837
01:44:43,400 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 1: Like?

1838
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:47,759
Speaker 4: Remember when like why it was getting like I'm getting

1839
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 4: now it's becoming a.

1840
01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 3: Sending me back, sending me back.

1841
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:56,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, speaking of soul food though, Yes, does the

1842
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 1: movie past the Bechdel test. Yes, it does quite a bit.

1843
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:03,839
Speaker 1: They're talking about food, they're talking about cooking, They're talking

1844
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 1: a lot of it is conversations between characters who like

1845
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:11,920
Speaker 1: don't necessarily get along very well. And it's Terry being like, hey, Maxine,

1846
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm better than you because I went to law school.

1847
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:17,240
Speaker 1: But not all of those conversations are like that. And

1848
01:45:17,880 --> 01:45:19,040
Speaker 1: it passes a lot.

1849
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's like a huge I think, just like

1850
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 3: speaking to the spirit of the Bechdel test, there's so

1851
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:28,080
Speaker 3: many women in this movie, and so many like different

1852
01:45:28,160 --> 01:45:32,960
Speaker 3: there's such a wide variety of women perspectives and they,

1853
01:45:33,160 --> 01:45:35,439
Speaker 3: you know, while they have to deal with the men

1854
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:38,160
Speaker 3: in their orbit, that's not what it's solely focused on

1855
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:40,480
Speaker 3: so right, indeed satisfied.

1856
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:45,559
Speaker 1: Yes, And then as far as our nipple scale, our

1857
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:49,240
Speaker 1: scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples

1858
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 1: based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I

1859
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 1: think i'll give this I'll give it three nipples. I'm

1860
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:02,320
Speaker 1: docking it for some of the like of the time

1861
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:09,519
Speaker 1: kind of characters reinforcing pretty rigid gender roles and not

1862
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:14,880
Speaker 1: really doing anything to challenge those characters, like lem you know,

1863
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:18,400
Speaker 1: engaging in some really awful behavior and being let off

1864
01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:23,280
Speaker 1: the hook very easily by the end and things like that.

1865
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:29,680
Speaker 1: But I love that there's a movie that centers on

1866
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:36,120
Speaker 1: sisterhood and specifically black sisterhood and the joy and struggles

1867
01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 1: within that. It's like a nice balance of examining these

1868
01:46:39,479 --> 01:46:46,080
Speaker 1: characters lives, the positives, the negatives, and just like showing

1869
01:46:47,160 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 1: well developed, very distinguishable from each other women, And I

1870
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:59,080
Speaker 1: think that's really cool. There's other things the movie handles

1871
01:46:59,160 --> 01:47:04,000
Speaker 1: on not so well that we've discussed, but I don't know. Overall,

1872
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:06,240
Speaker 1: it's really cool, and I appreciate that there's a male

1873
01:47:06,280 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: director like this one who wanted to center women. And

1874
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:13,840
Speaker 1: I think his first a short that he made I

1875
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,400
Speaker 1: don't know if he made it when he was instill

1876
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 1: in film school or shortly after he graduated, but it

1877
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:21,960
Speaker 1: was about a single mother or am I getting that right?

1878
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: It's about a woman, So he like seems to have

1879
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:26,799
Speaker 1: a vested interest in telling women's stories.

1880
01:47:27,160 --> 01:47:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that his career has sort of

1881
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:34,320
Speaker 3: continued in that where it's like it's not uncommon at all.

1882
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's maybe an even split, but

1883
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:38,760
Speaker 3: for a male director, even that's kind of incredible where

1884
01:47:39,080 --> 01:47:43,040
Speaker 3: he is not shy about centering women. And I think that, Yeah,

1885
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:46,320
Speaker 3: especially the further back you go in time, there will

1886
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:49,360
Speaker 3: be the issues that we talked about where it's like, yeah,

1887
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 3: I think it's good when male directors want to center

1888
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,439
Speaker 3: women and also they should maybe you know, get a

1889
01:47:56,479 --> 01:47:59,519
Speaker 3: co writer who's a woman, say right when I'm talking

1890
01:47:59,560 --> 01:47:59,880
Speaker 3: to each other?

1891
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:03,200
Speaker 4: Makes sense. I wanted to speak to that because earlier

1892
01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 4: I wanted to say how things have changed because Tyler

1893
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:10,920
Speaker 4: Perry gets a lot of flack for sisters because there's

1894
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:14,760
Speaker 4: no writers, it's just him. And like in the black community,

1895
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 4: a lot of these black male directors, they do a

1896
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:21,960
Speaker 4: lot of talking about black women. But Tyler Perry has

1897
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:26,120
Speaker 4: also financed black women directors. So I feel like, you know,

1898
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:30,200
Speaker 4: good on Tyler Perry, but I feel like things have

1899
01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:33,800
Speaker 4: definitely changed now whereas people are like, Okay, if you're

1900
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:38,040
Speaker 4: gonna speak for us, you need to have a woman writer,

1901
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 4: Like it can't just be y'all just telling our lives.

1902
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 4: So with recently, like there was the Best Man TV

1903
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:50,920
Speaker 4: Show with Malcolm Dee Lee and gosh, I forgot this

1904
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,120
Speaker 4: woman's name, and he had a co writer that was

1905
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:55,880
Speaker 4: a black woman, And that I think is like we're

1906
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:58,920
Speaker 4: going in the right direction because there have been like

1907
01:48:59,040 --> 01:49:01,599
Speaker 4: there's a lot of film that are written by black

1908
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:06,680
Speaker 4: men about black women that don't necessarily authentically speak to

1909
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 4: the black women's experience. So I feel like it's great

1910
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:12,840
Speaker 4: and I love soul food, but I also love that

1911
01:49:13,439 --> 01:49:15,960
Speaker 4: like in the future now, like black women are going

1912
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:20,880
Speaker 4: to are a part of that experience, you know. Yeah,

1913
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:23,360
Speaker 4: And I think, yeah, things have totally changed because like

1914
01:49:24,200 --> 01:49:29,400
Speaker 4: Tyler Perry has gotten so much like negative vibes for

1915
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:32,800
Speaker 4: sisters and people are like, why are you writing a

1916
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:36,840
Speaker 4: show about four women in a way that if it

1917
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:40,400
Speaker 4: was the nineties, he would have been praised for doing that.

1918
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:42,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. True.

1919
01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 3: I think also if Mike White with writing every season

1920
01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:49,800
Speaker 3: of The White Lotus completely by himself, and everyone's like, oh,

1921
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:52,200
Speaker 3: these women characters are so involved, and we're like, but

1922
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:57,599
Speaker 3: I don't think it is like overly nitpicky to expect

1923
01:49:57,640 --> 01:50:01,720
Speaker 3: him to hire a woman to hire especially that's like

1924
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:03,960
Speaker 3: a whole other conversation because there's a lot of shit

1925
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:04,320
Speaker 3: going on.

1926
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:05,000
Speaker 1: With that show.

1927
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:09,679
Speaker 3: But it feels like the difference of wanting to appear

1928
01:50:09,720 --> 01:50:13,000
Speaker 3: inclusive and actually having a vested interest in it and

1929
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 3: wanting to you know, not only like bring appropriate like

1930
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:20,759
Speaker 3: writers and perspectives into your project, but also get people

1931
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:24,240
Speaker 3: into the industry because you have institutional power, which I

1932
01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:26,200
Speaker 3: guess to be fair. George Tillman, I don't think did

1933
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:29,240
Speaker 3: at this time. This is his first big movie, so

1934
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:32,479
Speaker 3: maybe there wasn't a budget for that, Like whatever, I

1935
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 3: think now it's.

1936
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:36,840
Speaker 4: It's good, and it's also I think if when it's good,

1937
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:41,040
Speaker 4: people have less of an issue if it feels like

1938
01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:44,840
Speaker 4: what if it's like the reason that it wasn't is

1939
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:50,120
Speaker 4: because you don't have help, like you know, so that's

1940
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:54,720
Speaker 4: that's that's the thing too. But do we live in

1941
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:57,000
Speaker 4: a world where a bunch of women can get away

1942
01:50:57,200 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 4: with writing about a bunch of brothers and would they

1943
01:51:01,560 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 4: be able to do that?

1944
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:04,800
Speaker 3: Like, I'd like to try them.

1945
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:08,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd love to try. Like, but honestly, I was like,

1946
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:12,400
Speaker 4: I'm rather right about girls. But like you try, I'll

1947
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:14,240
Speaker 4: watch a movie and watch your teav.

1948
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:19,400
Speaker 3: I want brothers across the world to go ballistic when

1949
01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:22,760
Speaker 3: they see how I think brothers talk to each other. There.

1950
01:51:23,160 --> 01:51:25,840
Speaker 4: Oh wait, the nipple test. Can you explain a little

1951
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:29,920
Speaker 4: bit more about nipples, because I when intersectionality, I feel

1952
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 4: like it for me if it's a lot of nipples,

1953
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:35,000
Speaker 4: if they lose, like I would give it a lot

1954
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,439
Speaker 4: of nipples if they lose, or maybe just one nipple.

1955
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 4: If the nipple, it's like less nipples mean less intersectionality.

1956
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:43,840
Speaker 4: Because queer women, I feel like I don't see a

1957
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 4: lot of representation when it comes to queer women and

1958
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,920
Speaker 4: queer lesbians have such a big part of our lives,

1959
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:55,840
Speaker 4: like a part of our literature. Film, I don't think

1960
01:51:55,880 --> 01:51:59,599
Speaker 4: we see enough support of queer women. We don't see

1961
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:04,880
Speaker 4: a lot of queer women unlike screen unless like they're

1962
01:52:04,920 --> 01:52:07,760
Speaker 4: getting raped for being lesbian, and like a man, you

1963
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:09,360
Speaker 4: should be with a man. Why you don't want to

1964
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:13,120
Speaker 4: be with a man like, you know, so so that

1965
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:15,680
Speaker 4: I feel like he like docks some points for that.

1966
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:18,840
Speaker 4: But yeah, I want to say that because I was like,

1967
01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:20,200
Speaker 4: there's no queer.

1968
01:52:20,640 --> 01:52:24,720
Speaker 1: Definitely no queer visible. Well except there's the guy who

1969
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:27,720
Speaker 1: Bird works with the salon. We don't know his name.

1970
01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:33,320
Speaker 1: He's queer coded, but he's right. But I was like,

1971
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:36,280
Speaker 1: I loved watching him when he was on screen, but yeah,

1972
01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:38,599
Speaker 1: we know nothing about him, including I don't even think

1973
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:43,719
Speaker 1: his name, so but yeah, could definitely be more queer

1974
01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:48,559
Speaker 1: visibility in most movies. The nipple scale, you're trying to

1975
01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:54,840
Speaker 1: apply logic to something very logic a scale like it's yeah,

1976
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:57,559
Speaker 1: it's we just sort of make it up as we go.

1977
01:52:57,800 --> 01:53:00,880
Speaker 1: But that said, I will definitively give it three and

1978
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 1: I will give one to Terry because justice for Terry.

1979
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:11,479
Speaker 1: I will give one to Uncle Pete because I feel

1980
01:53:11,479 --> 01:53:14,640
Speaker 1: like some tropes about elderly people were used with his

1981
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:17,439
Speaker 1: character and I, you know, didn't love to see that,

1982
01:53:17,479 --> 01:53:20,000
Speaker 1: So justice for Uncle Pete. And then yeah, I'll give

1983
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:24,439
Speaker 1: my third nipple two queer icon the guy with dyed

1984
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:28,840
Speaker 1: red hair who Bird works with at the salon, who

1985
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:33,080
Speaker 1: was fun to watch, so that is that, Jamie, how

1986
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:33,679
Speaker 1: about you?

1987
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:37,040
Speaker 3: I'm between at three and a three and a half

1988
01:53:37,120 --> 01:53:41,840
Speaker 3: because I respect this movie's place in movie history and

1989
01:53:42,040 --> 01:53:45,799
Speaker 3: specifically black movie history. I think that especially with family dramas,

1990
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:49,519
Speaker 3: it is very rare to see a middle class black

1991
01:53:49,560 --> 01:53:53,439
Speaker 3: family drama that is like something that we don't see

1992
01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:57,280
Speaker 3: a lot even now, And I like that there is

1993
01:53:57,640 --> 01:54:00,560
Speaker 3: sort of I mean, I think that Terry sort of

1994
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:03,080
Speaker 3: gets the line and share of the judgment for it,

1995
01:54:03,120 --> 01:54:06,559
Speaker 3: but there is commentary on class that takes place within

1996
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:09,680
Speaker 3: a black family in ways that I feel like in

1997
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:12,519
Speaker 3: movies that are you know, that get wide releases, at

1998
01:54:12,640 --> 01:54:14,519
Speaker 3: least in the US, is not something that we see

1999
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:17,800
Speaker 3: very often. And I think I just I really like

2000
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 3: George Tillman Jr. I feel like the best is yet

2001
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:22,640
Speaker 3: to come from him, and I think this is just

2002
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:26,200
Speaker 3: just strictly from like a writing filmmaking standpoint, like it's

2003
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:29,679
Speaker 3: so wild that this is his first movie, Like it's

2004
01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:32,160
Speaker 3: so I mean, I know that he had a previous

2005
01:54:32,160 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 3: movie that didn't end up coming out, so it was

2006
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:37,320
Speaker 3: technically his second movie, but his verse why release? Holy shit,

2007
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:41,640
Speaker 3: it's so good and I think that it's very Again,

2008
01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:43,480
Speaker 3: I don't want to like overly hand it to him.

2009
01:54:43,480 --> 01:54:48,040
Speaker 3: But as a first time male director, choosing to center

2010
01:54:48,400 --> 01:54:52,160
Speaker 3: sisters in this story I think is really cool. But

2011
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 3: there's everything else we've talked about. I think that there's

2012
01:54:54,560 --> 01:55:01,160
Speaker 3: a sort of fundamental misunderstanding of domestic abuse that me cringe,

2013
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:03,200
Speaker 3: sort of in the way it's presented and how easily

2014
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:09,280
Speaker 3: it's forgiven. And there is the Terry issue, where Terry

2015
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:13,880
Speaker 3: I feel did nothing wrong, amongst other things. But I

2016
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:16,919
Speaker 3: think I'm going to go I might go three point five,

2017
01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:21,040
Speaker 3: and I am going to give one to Terry. Obviously,

2018
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to give one to Bird. I'm going to

2019
01:55:24,040 --> 01:55:30,000
Speaker 3: give one to Face because I feel like her character

2020
01:55:30,240 --> 01:55:32,480
Speaker 3: was similarly kind of a little all over the place

2021
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:35,400
Speaker 3: in a way that wasn't always fair to her. Although

2022
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:38,640
Speaker 3: don't have sex with your cousin's husband, I do feel

2023
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:41,880
Speaker 3: that strongly. And I'm going to give the last half

2024
01:55:41,960 --> 01:55:46,200
Speaker 3: nipple to John Carter, who I really enjoyed learning about

2025
01:55:46,440 --> 01:55:51,360
Speaker 3: and who would go on to edit future George Tillman projects,

2026
01:55:51,480 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 3: including Barbershop.

2027
01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:57,520
Speaker 1: So there you go, very cool idea. How about you?

2028
01:55:57,560 --> 01:56:01,280
Speaker 1: What would you write it on our perfect nipple scale?

2029
01:56:01,320 --> 01:56:02,160
Speaker 1: That makes so much I.

2030
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:04,560
Speaker 4: Like so confused about nipples, So I'm just gonna give

2031
01:56:04,600 --> 01:56:07,400
Speaker 4: them to who I want. You guys gave nipples to Cherry.

2032
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:10,240
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give a nipple to Terry. I'm going to

2033
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:13,760
Speaker 4: give a nipple to Bird. I'll give a nipple to

2034
01:56:13,880 --> 01:56:15,720
Speaker 4: Limb because I feel like it was kind of tough.

2035
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:17,680
Speaker 4: His situation was pretty tough. We don't know where he

2036
01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:21,640
Speaker 4: came from. And then I want to give up a

2037
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 4: nipple to a mod I don't know what that means,

2038
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:25,320
Speaker 4: but they're all getting nipples.

2039
01:56:24,880 --> 01:56:25,880
Speaker 1: So nice.

2040
01:56:26,040 --> 01:56:29,839
Speaker 3: Perfect, It's just a showing of your favorite character, is basically.

2041
01:56:30,240 --> 01:56:31,320
Speaker 4: Okay.

2042
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much for joining us. It's

2043
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:39,840
Speaker 1: been such a treat. Come back anytime and tell us

2044
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:44,560
Speaker 1: where people can check you out online, read your stuff,

2045
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:46,680
Speaker 1: plug anything you want to plug.

2046
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:49,960
Speaker 4: Okay, So you can find me at black Dina on

2047
01:56:50,080 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 4: Instagram and really like I own the trademark for black Dina,

2048
01:56:54,440 --> 01:56:57,200
Speaker 4: so anywhere there's black Tina, like, it's going to be

2049
01:56:57,400 --> 01:57:01,560
Speaker 4: Mels of the time that's spelled b lacti in a.

2050
01:57:03,160 --> 01:57:07,760
Speaker 4: Also my website Blackdinamedia dot com. I also have an

2051
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:11,600
Speaker 4: art business where I saw art from like Haitian migrants

2052
01:57:11,600 --> 01:57:15,640
Speaker 4: in the Dominican Republic Black Dina Galleria that's on Instagram.

2053
01:57:15,760 --> 01:57:21,200
Speaker 4: That is like kind of a slow cooking situation plugging

2054
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:24,960
Speaker 4: Hispanic Heritage month. This comment is right around the corner.

2055
01:57:25,080 --> 01:57:29,520
Speaker 4: So hire me for your panels, for your schools, like

2056
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 4: for your promotions. If anybody wants to give me a

2057
01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:38,160
Speaker 4: budget to work on a TV show or film either

2058
01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:40,360
Speaker 4: in the United States or Latin America or the Caribbean,

2059
01:57:40,840 --> 01:57:44,160
Speaker 4: happy to do that. English or Spanish or Portuguese. Happy

2060
01:57:44,200 --> 01:57:47,640
Speaker 4: to do that. Just moving the conversations forward and so

2061
01:57:47,680 --> 01:57:50,640
Speaker 4: we can have more nuance to entertainment when it comes

2062
01:57:50,680 --> 01:57:54,560
Speaker 4: to blackness, because it's so nuanced and it just we

2063
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:58,480
Speaker 4: have such an amazing culture. It's crazy like that it's

2064
01:57:58,520 --> 01:58:02,680
Speaker 4: put in this box because the black experience is so

2065
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:08,160
Speaker 4: like diverse globally. Within the LATINX community. I believe, what

2066
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 4: is there like two hundred million Afro Latinos in Latin America.

2067
01:58:12,920 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 4: I'm not sure how many in the United States and

2068
01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:19,680
Speaker 4: like Western countries, but it's it's super diverse. It's really

2069
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:21,680
Speaker 4: really fun and we're missing out on a lot of

2070
01:58:21,800 --> 01:58:22,680
Speaker 4: entertainment right now.

2071
01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 1: So thank you again so much. You can follow us

2072
01:58:28,160 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 1: at Bechtel cast on various social media platform whatever they're called.

2073
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:35,480
Speaker 3: Now know it could be different by the time you

2074
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:39,320
Speaker 3: hear this. We're on the things, except for Facebook because

2075
01:58:39,320 --> 01:58:42,320
Speaker 3: that is a stressful place to go, so we're not there.

2076
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:48,240
Speaker 1: But definitely follow us. Slash subscribe to our Matreon at

2077
01:58:48,440 --> 01:58:51,280
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Bectel Cast. You get two bonus

2078
01:58:51,280 --> 01:58:55,560
Speaker 1: episodes every month, plus access to all the back catalog episodes,

2079
01:58:55,840 --> 01:58:58,840
Speaker 1: all for five dollars a month, imagine.

2080
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:01,160
Speaker 3: And then if you want some merch, if you have

2081
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:04,000
Speaker 3: merch needs, you can find us at teapublic dot com

2082
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:10,320
Speaker 3: slash the Bechtel Cast. And with that, let's get all

2083
01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 3: the money out of this TV and have a happy.

2084
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:21,440
Speaker 1: Ending Wow and non nomnom on some delicious soul food. Bye.