Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. Well, you know, we have actually
Speaker 1: a very serious show today, because while we've talked about
Speaker 1: the dizzey and pace of news, it's sometimes hard to
Speaker 1: process the daily barrage of stories that have been filling
Speaker 1: up our timelines and news feeds. And that's what we
Speaker 1: wanted to do today. We wanted to step back and
Speaker 1: give some perspective to a particularly horrific event that happened recently,
Speaker 1: and the topic is gun violence. The event is the
Speaker 1: shooting at Parkland in Florida. And I'm just heartbroken, as
Speaker 1: I know you are every time you hear about another
Speaker 1: mass shooting. That's right, it's like a broken record, sadly,
Speaker 1: and it's happening far too frequently. I know that we're
Speaker 1: all devastated for the families in Parkland, Florida. We're seventeen
Speaker 1: people at Marjorie Stone and Douglas High School were killed
Speaker 1: in February. Many others were injured, and of course the
Speaker 1: entire higher school and community completely traumatized when a nineteen
Speaker 1: year old former student at the school returned with an
Speaker 1: a R fifteen and open fire. I know this time
Speaker 1: is different. Has become kind of a cliche but this
Speaker 1: time really does feel different, um, namely because of how
Speaker 1: the students at the school have responded. They've been remarkable.
Speaker 1: I talked to Mark Bardon, who is the father from
Speaker 1: Sandy Hook who lost his adorable son Daniel in that massacre,
Speaker 1: and we were trying to understand why this felt different,
Speaker 1: and I think it's because, as you mentioned, Brian, these
Speaker 1: high school students, they are smart, they're learning the issue,
Speaker 1: and they're making their voices be heard. So it's almost
Speaker 1: this built in advocacy group that has sprung up from
Speaker 1: this horrific tragedy. You're exactly right. I mean, they're pressuring
Speaker 1: politicians on social media. They organized a national school walkout day,
Speaker 1: and also of course a march in Washington that's coming
Speaker 1: up on Saturday, March, two days after this episode drops.
Speaker 1: And that brings us to our first guest, Ali Sheehy.
Speaker 1: She is a senior at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School
Speaker 1: in Parkland, a really sweet, nice, kind of typical high
Speaker 1: school senior. Thinking about the things that high school seniors
Speaker 1: think about their future, how to get through exams, graduation,
Speaker 1: prom all these rites of passage when this happens. But
Speaker 1: as you listen to her, I think you're going to
Speaker 1: realize how extraordinary she actually is. She was so gracious
Speaker 1: and open about her experience. It was very moving to
Speaker 1: speak with her and today, By the way, it's a
Speaker 1: two part episode. Our second guest is Shannon Watts, the
Speaker 1: founder of Mom's Demand Action, which is a group pushing
Speaker 1: for reform of our gun loss. She's another remarkable woman.
Speaker 1: She started Mom's Demand Action as a stay at home
Speaker 1: mom with five kids, no political experience. She had some
Speaker 1: experiencing corporate communications, but like so many Americans, when she
Speaker 1: heard about this shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: she said enough, I have got to do something. So
Speaker 1: she decided to take action and decided to start this
Speaker 1: organization that has grown tremendously and accomplished so much in
Speaker 1: just five years. Mom's Demand Action now has fifty chapters
Speaker 1: over a hundred thousand act of volunteers working to pass
Speaker 1: what they call common sense gun reforms on the state
Speaker 1: and federal level. You'll be hearing from Shannon a bit
Speaker 1: later in the show, but first our conversation with an
Speaker 1: extraordinary student from Parkland, Florida, Ali Sheehy. Hey, Ali, it's
Speaker 1: Katie Kuric. Can you hear me? Okay, yes I can.
Speaker 1: Very nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well.
Speaker 1: And this is Brian Goldsmith. Hey, Ali, it's nice to
Speaker 1: meet you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me so Ali. Gosh, Um, it's
Speaker 1: hard to really figure out where to begin. You're eighteen
Speaker 1: years old, you're a senior in high school at Marjorie
Speaker 1: Stoneman Douglas High School. I guess I'm going to ask
Speaker 1: the question that reporters are told not to ask, but
Speaker 1: somehow I feel is appropriate given the situation. How are
Speaker 1: you doing? Um? I think right now all of us
Speaker 1: are kind of doing the best that we can. It's
Speaker 1: getting used to our new normal that we have at
Speaker 1: our school and our community right now. And how would
Speaker 1: you describe that new normal? I don't really think that
Speaker 1: there's a way to describe it. There's just a wave
Speaker 1: of emotions that kind of affects everybody differently at this point,
Speaker 1: and we're just kind of trying to all get through
Speaker 1: it together because you don't know what the person next
Speaker 1: to you is thinking or going through, or how this
Speaker 1: aspected them. It's just kind of a sensitive situation that
Speaker 1: we're all in right now. I'm sure you know everyone
Speaker 1: deals with trauma differently, and is it a fairly unified
Speaker 1: situation at the high school or if you've seen evidence
Speaker 1: of people kind of at each other because of this
Speaker 1: and dealing with emotion, you know, these very heavy emotions
Speaker 1: at the same time. I mean, for the most part
Speaker 1: right now at our school, we're all very unified, we're
Speaker 1: all one family. But even in a family, you have
Speaker 1: fights between people, and right now, most of the conflict
Speaker 1: is between the political aspects of this kind of argument
Speaker 1: that we're having, with the left and the right and
Speaker 1: liberals and conservatives at our school having different viewpoints and
Speaker 1: different ways that they want to take this, And it's
Speaker 1: just something that's hard to see because this is not
Speaker 1: the time to argue between ourselves. It's something it's a
Speaker 1: time that we all need to be together, and it's
Speaker 1: it's just angers me to see people arguing over something
Speaker 1: that we don't need to argue about. So Ali, before
Speaker 1: we talk about that terrible day and before we talk
Speaker 1: more about the aftermath, can you tell our listeners a
Speaker 1: little bit about your life before the shooting, about your
Speaker 1: senior year. I know you describe yourself as a happy,
Speaker 1: go lucky person. Before this, what were your interests and
Speaker 1: activities and what's Parkland, Florida like? Um? Before this, I
Speaker 1: was focused on my senior year getting AP tests and
Speaker 1: finishing that out. And the week before that, I was
Speaker 1: worried about my AP stack quiz that I had on
Speaker 1: Friday that I didn't understand anything that I was doing,
Speaker 1: so I was kind of studying really hard for that,
Speaker 1: and UM prom is coming up, So my friends and
Speaker 1: I we're kind of worried about that and which jess
Speaker 1: we're going on and what friends are coming with us,
Speaker 1: and what bus we're going on and sort of normal
Speaker 1: high school things, right. And I also that day that morning, UM,
Speaker 1: I asked my best friend if she wanted to be
Speaker 1: my roommate in college. Where is where are you going
Speaker 1: to school? Alley? I'm going to UCF in this summer.
Speaker 1: And what's Parkland, Florida like? I mean, I know, it's
Speaker 1: about halfway between Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale and it's
Speaker 1: a fairly small, tight knit community. Well, we kind of
Speaker 1: describe it as the Parkland Bubble because it's really just
Speaker 1: a tight knit community of family and it's very family oriented.
Speaker 1: It's a city that families with small children moved to
Speaker 1: specifically because of the atmosphere that we have. The population
Speaker 1: is kind of small, and we have a plus schools,
Speaker 1: and it's just something that people come to feel safe at.
Speaker 1: It's a safe city. So you expressed to our producers
Speaker 1: you are willing to talk about that day, and we
Speaker 1: don't want to read troum ties you Ali, So you
Speaker 1: talk about whatever you're comfortable talking about. But as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you were thinking about the prom, you were talking to
Speaker 1: your best friend about college, you were worried about an
Speaker 1: AP test, and then suddenly those concerns, which are legitimate
Speaker 1: for a high school senior, for any student across the country,
Speaker 1: but they became obviously something that I had no weight
Speaker 1: in your life. Tell us about where you were and
Speaker 1: what you witnessed and what that day was like for
Speaker 1: you personally. UM My morning started out normally. I got
Speaker 1: up late because I didn't want to get out of
Speaker 1: bed because I'm not a morning person. Um. But I
Speaker 1: got to school, I hung out with my friends and
Speaker 1: the parking lot, and I asked my best friend to
Speaker 1: be my roommate. I made a little sign and I said,
Speaker 1: will you be my Valentine but crossed out Valentine and
Speaker 1: wrote roommate and she said yes, and we had a
Speaker 1: big hug um and then we all separated and we
Speaker 1: didn't think any of a thing of it, and we
Speaker 1: just saw said a quick bye, see you later, and
Speaker 1: we went to our first period and the morning announcements
Speaker 1: came on and UM, our assistant principal came on for
Speaker 1: his usual normal UM morning announcements and he started talking
Speaker 1: about like the protocols in our zones for fire drills,
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, there must be a fire drill
Speaker 1: coming up later, And sure enough, second period, the fire
Speaker 1: alarm one goes off. We all walk out of the building, calmly,
Speaker 1: stand in rose, go back in. Ten minutes later, class continues.
Speaker 1: Fourth period comes around and my teacher we kind of
Speaker 1: got halfway through class and we were in a project
Speaker 1: because we just finished reading Macbeth and we were doing
Speaker 1: a project on that, and she had to leave early
Speaker 1: because she had to drop her kid off at the doctor,
Speaker 1: so she had to drop us off in the auditorium
Speaker 1: because there weren't enough subs that day to cover uh,
Speaker 1: So we had a teacher from the freshman building come
Speaker 1: over with his class, and then we were sitting and
Speaker 1: finishing up our project and we're kind of goofing around,
Speaker 1: and then the fire alarm went off again, and we
Speaker 1: were kind of confused because we didn't know why this
Speaker 1: would happen so close to the end of the day.
Speaker 1: So we got up, we walked outside, and we heard
Speaker 1: some pops. We didn't think anything of it, but then
Speaker 1: we saw kids running and screaming, and so we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: this must be like a real fire. We should start
Speaker 1: walking faster um, and we picked up the pace, but
Speaker 1: then we were our auditorium is right next to the administration,
Speaker 1: like the office, and administrators were telling us to turn
Speaker 1: back and go back inside. So we ran back inside
Speaker 1: and we're like, this is weird. Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1: And for the first ten minutes we thought that this
Speaker 1: was a drill, like this was a code red jill.
Speaker 1: But the more and more we thought about it, the
Speaker 1: more and more we realized why would they make a
Speaker 1: code red drill so closely end of school, Why would
Speaker 1: they not tell the teachers, and why would so many
Speaker 1: sirens be coming from outside? And I immediately started texting
Speaker 1: all my friends and trying to calm down the people
Speaker 1: around me, because kids that I've gone to school with
Speaker 1: for my entire life, basically we're breaking down crying. We
Speaker 1: all thought we didn't know if we were going to
Speaker 1: make it out. And that's a very scary thing to
Speaker 1: think about. It's not something I ever want anybody else
Speaker 1: to text to their parents, because I know. I texted
Speaker 1: my mom and I said, I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is real, but I want to let you know I
Speaker 1: love you. And she responded back saying what and ten
Speaker 1: minutes past and I said, Mom, it's real. So you
Speaker 1: went back into the school after you had left the school.
Speaker 1: We didn't actually leave like the school grounds. We were
Speaker 1: just outside of the auditorium, so we didn't It's one
Speaker 1: of those things that you drill for and teachers are
Speaker 1: told to put you back into the building when this happens.
Speaker 1: Where was your class before your teacher left early? I'm
Speaker 1: just curious, was your class in the area. No, I
Speaker 1: actually moved closer to where it was happening. If she
Speaker 1: did not leave early, we would have been in the
Speaker 1: nine building, which is the furthest one away from where
Speaker 1: it happened, and we would have been in the backfield
Speaker 1: and already evacuated to Walmart when it happened. When you
Speaker 1: when did you realize, Ali, what had happened inside that school?
Speaker 1: It was when I started getting messages from my friends
Speaker 1: that were in that building saying, I'm I love you
Speaker 1: and it's real, it's happening. Like two kids in my
Speaker 1: class were just shot and there's blood everywhere. So kids
Speaker 1: were texting you as it was actually going on. Did
Speaker 1: you know many of the students who lost their lives
Speaker 1: that day? Um? I knew a few. Um. Three of
Speaker 1: them were my grade. Um. One of them, Carmen, was
Speaker 1: in some of my classes, and one of the younger ones,
Speaker 1: one of the freshman's that passed away. Um, is on
Speaker 1: my little sister's soccer team, and the two coaches saw
Speaker 1: them every morning. Just hard to believe, isn't it? Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Is it hard to talk about this for you, Ali? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard to listen. I can only imagine having to
Speaker 1: tell the story. I'm hesitant even to ask this, But
Speaker 1: did you know the shooter at all? I did. He
Speaker 1: was in grade before he got expelled. What can you
Speaker 1: tell us about him? Um? He was just Um the
Speaker 1: best way I can describe him. Was. He was a
Speaker 1: weird person that went up to anybody and everybody and
Speaker 1: talked to them like he knew them already. And me,
Speaker 1: as a shy person that doesn't really like talking to people,
Speaker 1: it was kind of awkward and I'd always try to
Speaker 1: shuffle away whenever he came up to me. But he
Speaker 1: was very persistent and would talk about the most randomous things.
Speaker 1: And he was a kid that went to our middle school.
Speaker 1: It's he had had problems all before. He had to
Speaker 1: bring a plastic bag to school because he couldn't bring
Speaker 1: his backpack anymore, so that they could see what he
Speaker 1: brought to school, because he was that much of a threat.
Speaker 1: Are you surprised that more wasn't done or disturbed that
Speaker 1: more wasn't done given the warning signs that seemed in
Speaker 1: retrospect to have been everywhere. I'm disturbed by it, definitely,
Speaker 1: because this is something that should never have happened. But
Speaker 1: it's also something that I know my school did the
Speaker 1: most that they could have, given the laws and the
Speaker 1: rules that they're given as teachers. There was nothing that
Speaker 1: the school could have done. It was left to our
Speaker 1: government and our local police officers. But even though you
Speaker 1: were limited and it's just something that never should have happened.
Speaker 1: We'll be taking a quick break and we'll be back
Speaker 1: with Parkland student Ali She right after this, and now
Speaker 1: back with Alie She in the math aftermath of this tragedy.
Speaker 1: I know your focus is on school safety, whereas I
Speaker 1: know some many of your classmates are focused on changing
Speaker 1: gun laws. So how did you decide to focus on
Speaker 1: this aspect of the issue. And I'm curious about if
Speaker 1: that's created any tension among your classmates. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's tension among our classmates. For me personally, I'm not
Speaker 1: only talking about school safety, I believe and stronger and
Speaker 1: stricter gun laws. It's just that we already have a
Speaker 1: forefront for the gun laws. People. Those are my friends.
Speaker 1: Those people that are speaking out are students from my school.
Speaker 1: They I've known them forever. They're talking about it. They
Speaker 1: have a strong argument with them already, but we're kind
Speaker 1: of working in conjunction with them to get this full
Speaker 1: spectrum of problems that need to be fixed. When you
Speaker 1: say that you're focused on school safety, what does that
Speaker 1: actually mean. Well, I've looked into it, and for fire
Speaker 1: jewels for our schools, I don't know if it's every
Speaker 1: county yet. I haven't done enough research, but we're required
Speaker 1: to have a fire drill once every month. That means
Speaker 1: that we have ten fire drills every single school years.
Speaker 1: Since we've been in kindergarten, that has been something that
Speaker 1: has been drilled into our heads that it's an automatic
Speaker 1: response to get up and walk out of the classroom
Speaker 1: when that bell goes off. For code red drills, we
Speaker 1: don't practice them that that often. It's not an automatic
Speaker 1: response to get up and go to the safest corner
Speaker 1: of the room. It's something that in a moment that
Speaker 1: we haven't practiced as much as fire drills, that people
Speaker 1: freeze and they don't know what to do and they panic.
Speaker 1: And I I've talked to people that were in the building.
Speaker 1: I know people that were in some of the rooms,
Speaker 1: and some of the people in those rooms that actually
Speaker 1: passed away was because they went for the window first
Speaker 1: instead of going towards the corner. Or people started going
Speaker 1: towards the corner, but they weren't completely out of sight
Speaker 1: from the window and the door, so they were out
Speaker 1: in the open and they got hit. And it's something
Speaker 1: that needs to become a second nature that a fire
Speaker 1: drill is because it's unacceptable. It's even disturbing that we
Speaker 1: have to practice these kinds of things. But it's something
Speaker 1: that is our new reality. This is something that we've
Speaker 1: grown up with our entire lives. Like when Columbine happened,
Speaker 1: I was not even born, so that was something that
Speaker 1: the schools implemented as I went to school. I've grown
Speaker 1: up with this and it's something that definitely needs to
Speaker 1: be fixed on multiple levels. But right now we should
Speaker 1: be fixing the problems that we have. It's just a
Speaker 1: big cluster of wrong right. And what what do you
Speaker 1: make of President Trump's recommendation that more teachers should be armed?
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? Alley I that is
Speaker 1: the worst idea I have ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1: I absolutely eat that idea. It's once you're in that situation,
Speaker 1: you understand. But a swat team coming into your room,
Speaker 1: they have their guns drawn, they have they asked and
Speaker 1: are screaming at you to have their hands raised where
Speaker 1: they can see them. And if my teacher had a gun,
Speaker 1: how are they supposed to tell that that person is
Speaker 1: the bad guy or the good guy. And another thing
Speaker 1: that I find very disturbing is how they're talking about
Speaker 1: doing it with having the gun locked away, and if
Speaker 1: it's locked away, you need to have the AMMO separate
Speaker 1: from it. And if it's locked away, this happened in
Speaker 1: six minutes. Six minutes is a very short amount of time.
Speaker 1: Six minutes is not enough time to protect your students
Speaker 1: and make sure they're safe. Then go to yours guns safe,
Speaker 1: get out your stuff, and then ask my teacher that
Speaker 1: has volunteered their time to teach me, to make me
Speaker 1: into a doctor, into a lawyer, into a politician, into
Speaker 1: a baker, into anything that I'm going to do in
Speaker 1: my future, and then asked them to risk their lives for.
Speaker 1: That's not something they signed up for. There was legislation
Speaker 1: just signed in Florida that does a variety of things.
Speaker 1: That annects a three day waiting period to buy a
Speaker 1: gun at bands so called bump stocks, that raises them
Speaker 1: inimum age with some exceptions to one. It also does
Speaker 1: make it easier to train and armed school employees. Um,
Speaker 1: what's your reaction to this legislation? Did you support it?
Speaker 1: It's it's a baby step in the right direction, and
Speaker 1: they're not listening to what we're actually asking for. They're
Speaker 1: kind of just pacifying what we're asking for and hopes
Speaker 1: that we're going to stop. And I can tell you
Speaker 1: right now, we're not going to stop, because this has
Speaker 1: happened way too many times and I don't want my
Speaker 1: school to be another statistic in the school shooting list.
Speaker 1: Don't want that to happen. Ali, what are you actually
Speaker 1: asking for? We want to ban on the assault weapons
Speaker 1: because there had There's no way that that should have happened.
Speaker 1: There's no way that a nineteen year old that has
Speaker 1: a background like that should have gotten a weapon like that.
Speaker 1: There's so many levels of what we want for stricter
Speaker 1: background checks and mental health screenings. They're offering more for
Speaker 1: arming teachers than they are for regular citizens on the streets,
Speaker 1: and that's completely ridiculous to me. How do you feel
Speaker 1: about President Trump's reaction to this? Did you appreciate that
Speaker 1: he invited students to the White House and do you
Speaker 1: think there's any hope that he will see things your way?
Speaker 1: For the President inviting people to the White House to
Speaker 1: talk to him, I felt that was a big slap
Speaker 1: in the face because that weekend and a couple of
Speaker 1: days before that, he was here. He was where we
Speaker 1: all were. He was here to the point where students
Speaker 1: and teachers could talk to him, But instead he selected
Speaker 1: a few and brought them to him and in an
Speaker 1: environment that only he could control. And I didn't like
Speaker 1: that because he only selected a few voices of what
Speaker 1: actually happened. You wrote a poem ally called Dear Mr President.
Speaker 1: UM one inspired you to write that, um it was
Speaker 1: the morning when he was in or near Parkland and
Speaker 1: he was not answering our calls to actually speak with
Speaker 1: him and have a conversation with him. It was also
Speaker 1: the morning that he wrote that the FBI failed us
Speaker 1: because they were busy with the Russian collusion. And that
Speaker 1: made me even more angry because he was sitting in
Speaker 1: his hotel room watching TV while all of us were
Speaker 1: going to vigils and memorials and bearing our friends. That
Speaker 1: actually is so upsetting. That makes me cry thinking about
Speaker 1: you all in this cognitive dissonance between what you all
Speaker 1: were experiencing and what the President was tweeting. But can
Speaker 1: you read a little of the poem you wrote? Why
Speaker 1: don't you read actually the whole thing, because it's short
Speaker 1: enough that you can read the whole thing. And it's
Speaker 1: so good, So go ahead. My poem is called Dear Mr. President.
Speaker 1: My friends have died, They are gone from our lives,
Speaker 1: Yet you sit there twiddling your thumbs. My friends have died,
Speaker 1: the life gone from their eyes, Yet you sit there
Speaker 1: talking anything but guns. My friends have died, and we've
Speaker 1: cried and cried, yet you sit there blaming them mentally ill.
Speaker 1: My friends have died, our voices pushed aside, yet you
Speaker 1: sit there. You sit there still. My friends have died
Speaker 1: and our tears aren't dried, yet you sit there watching
Speaker 1: us plead. My friends have died. It's an issue nationwide.
Speaker 1: You sit there still. So how about you lead as
Speaker 1: a community forever unified? I asked you, sir, how did
Speaker 1: this happen to us? I invite you to learn to
Speaker 1: hear the story from inside, because if not now, when
Speaker 1: will the right time be to discuss that? Really? Uh spread?
Speaker 1: I think on social media your poem. What kind of
Speaker 1: reaction did you get to your poem? I got a
Speaker 1: lot of positive There was a lot of people supporting
Speaker 1: and asking, tagging along with why hasn't anything been done
Speaker 1: so far? I also got a lot of negative feedback
Speaker 1: for people saying I was disrespectful to the president and
Speaker 1: that I was blaming him for everything that happened, which
Speaker 1: I didn't tend to do, nor do I want to.
Speaker 1: I'm just asking him why he didn't do anything. Elie.
Speaker 1: I understand that you're an editor on your school yearbook
Speaker 1: and this is the first high school that has to
Speaker 1: document an event like this, and it's your book. So
Speaker 1: how are you covering this tragedy. It's something that we
Speaker 1: really have to be careful about. But as a group,
Speaker 1: it's kind of our own little family now because we
Speaker 1: talk about it a lot, and it's kind of a therapy,
Speaker 1: therapeutic kind of thing. Um. Covering it is a little
Speaker 1: hard because you have to relive it every single time
Speaker 1: that you open that spread and look at it and
Speaker 1: read the story and look at the pictures. But something
Speaker 1: that we've all agreed on is that we're going to
Speaker 1: honor the way that they lived, not the way that
Speaker 1: they died. And I think it's very important that we
Speaker 1: document it because this is something that all of us
Speaker 1: are going to be able to keep for years. I
Speaker 1: know you're going to do have plans to go to
Speaker 1: the march in Washington with your friends. What do you
Speaker 1: hope people will take away from this show of unity
Speaker 1: and the fact that so many people in cities all
Speaker 1: across the country will be marching and protesting on March.
Speaker 1: What do you hope the message will be and where
Speaker 1: do you go from here? I hope that it shows
Speaker 1: that we're not going to take this line down anymore,
Speaker 1: that this is something that has brought us all together
Speaker 1: and we're now questioning our government as to why they've
Speaker 1: let it go on. And I hope this shows how
Speaker 1: we're not going to take it, that we're going to
Speaker 1: change it, and we're not going to shut up and
Speaker 1: be quiet while you guys take money from lobbyists and
Speaker 1: people that are trying to just control what goes on
Speaker 1: in the country, the one percent that's going to try
Speaker 1: to control it, because that's that's unacceptable. I had. I
Speaker 1: went to a lunch with a couple of other student
Speaker 1: activists from park Land, and they said that one of
Speaker 1: their biggest priorities is to register kids to vote and
Speaker 1: register people to vote, and to get them to be
Speaker 1: motivated as n r A members can be and as
Speaker 1: gun rights advocates can be single issue voters. They want
Speaker 1: to turn a lot of other people on the other
Speaker 1: side into single issue voters. Is that the strategy that
Speaker 1: you'd like to pursue as well. I definitely think that's
Speaker 1: so important because right now, I know our generation and
Speaker 1: the millennials before us haven't really shown out to vote
Speaker 1: most of the time. Our age group has been sort
Speaker 1: of not politically active. And as my APGLV teacher has
Speaker 1: told us time and time again, if you don't participate,
Speaker 1: you don't get to complain. And I think that's very
Speaker 1: strong because we are participating now, We are using our voices,
Speaker 1: and we have the power to change it if we
Speaker 1: don't like it, and I think that's something that a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand. Or, as Gandhi said, be
Speaker 1: the change that you wish to see in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's painted on our wall in our school. Is anyone
Speaker 1: helping you, guys organize and figure out your strategy. Is
Speaker 1: anyone helping to pay your expenses, for example, to go
Speaker 1: to the march on Washington. We've gotten a lot of
Speaker 1: support from all over, but most of this has been
Speaker 1: student driven, and we're gonna we want to keep it
Speaker 1: student driven because it's our voices that matter. I think
Speaker 1: that's actually very interesting. The girls I met also said
Speaker 1: they don't want this to turn into a corporate event.
Speaker 1: They don't want branding from companies. They want to keep
Speaker 1: it as pure as possible. We want to keep our
Speaker 1: emotions because that's what's gotten us this far. It's the
Speaker 1: students voicing their emotions. Their feelings are experiences. This is
Speaker 1: something that we've lived through. This is not something everybody understands,
Speaker 1: and that's also something that we want to make sure
Speaker 1: that nobody ever has to live through this again. I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody should be happy that they had a
Speaker 1: second chance at life after a gunman came to their school.
Speaker 1: You know, as Brian mentioned, you describe yourself as a happy,
Speaker 1: go lucky person, and I'm just curious as we close here, Ali,
Speaker 1: how this has changed you as a person. Would you
Speaker 1: still describe yourself that way? Or has something changed deep
Speaker 1: inside of you and even your outlook on life and
Speaker 1: even perhaps what you want to do um as as
Speaker 1: you get older and go out in the world. It
Speaker 1: hasn't really changed what I want to do. I've been
Speaker 1: set on becoming a doctor since I was ten um
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's something that I can be
Speaker 1: swayed from. But it's definitely changed my point of view
Speaker 1: on who will listen. Because before, when everything else happened,
Speaker 1: I'd see it on the news, I'd send my thoughts
Speaker 1: and prayers, and I'd be I'd say to myself, I
Speaker 1: can't do anything. I'm a kid. I can't change adults minds.
Speaker 1: They won't listen to us. They're still not listening. Not
Speaker 1: all of them are listening to us, but we're trying
Speaker 1: our best. A lot of us are. Yeah, um, a
Speaker 1: few are still a little bit stubborn on how kids
Speaker 1: can know so much information. But something I want to
Speaker 1: say about that is that we are students and we
Speaker 1: know that when you don't study, you fail your test.
Speaker 1: This is our test now, despite for change is our
Speaker 1: test now. And trust me when I say this. We've
Speaker 1: been up until four or five o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: researching our laws, looking up our legislator is seeing how
Speaker 1: much money is donated, where the money is going and
Speaker 1: coming from. Because we want to make sure that we
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about, Because we want to make
Speaker 1: sure that we have the answers to the questions that
Speaker 1: people ask us, because that's the most important thing I
Speaker 1: know your mom's with you in the studio, and we
Speaker 1: really wanted to have this conversation be the three of us,
Speaker 1: but I imagine she must be incredibly proud of you
Speaker 1: and the fact that you are stepping into this arena,
Speaker 1: which isn't easy because I'm sure all those negative tweets
Speaker 1: and all those that negativity on social media is something
Speaker 1: you really never get used to. But I imagine your
Speaker 1: parents have been incredibly supportive and are incredibly proud. They're
Speaker 1: the most supportive people ever. Well, I think you're going
Speaker 1: to go on and do great things. I think you're
Speaker 1: going to be a wonderful doctor, but also just a
Speaker 1: wonderful citizen because you're willing to get out there, use
Speaker 1: your voice, and collaborate and unite with people who want
Speaker 1: to see change in the world. And I just wish
Speaker 1: you all the best and so much luck, not only
Speaker 1: in this fight but in your life. And uh and
Speaker 1: we both Brian and I and everyone involved in this
Speaker 1: podcast really appreciate you talking to the us about this today.
Speaker 1: I know it's not easy, but you know, it's incredibly
Speaker 1: moving to hear you talk about what happened and where
Speaker 1: you go from here. So thank you, Ali, thank you
Speaker 1: for having me. Wow, that was a very intense conversation,
Speaker 1: and for me a very I don't know, Brian, I
Speaker 1: know you said you thought I was moved. I was
Speaker 1: very moved. And I don't know if you can see
Speaker 1: behind my glasses, but I was actually tearing up with
Speaker 1: both sadness for Ali and her classmates in the community,
Speaker 1: but also tearing up because I was so inspired by
Speaker 1: the work she's doing and how she has transformed into
Speaker 1: this incredible activist. Yeah, she's with such humility too, you know.
Speaker 1: I was also struck by her when she said, we're
Speaker 1: students and we know that you have to study or
Speaker 1: you fail the test, and this is our test. I
Speaker 1: don't know. That was so profound to me. It was,
Speaker 1: and I feel terrible that she's having to go through this,
Speaker 1: that she can't just focus on being a kid in
Speaker 1: her senior year of high school and thinking about her
Speaker 1: college roommate. But she's trying to turn this tragedy into
Speaker 1: a teaching moment for the country, and she is nothing
Speaker 1: if not incredibly inspiring, a great example, you know. But
Speaker 1: I think it's also a few days after this happened,
Speaker 1: my daughter, who's in college, said I'm so scared, Mom,
Speaker 1: there's going to be a shooting here. So you can
Speaker 1: imagine kind of the anxiety level for kids everywhere when
Speaker 1: something like this happens. And that's why I think something's
Speaker 1: got to be done. So speaking of that, UM, next
Speaker 1: up is there a conversation with Shannon Wats, the founder
Speaker 1: of Mom's Demand Action, and we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the policy response to shootings like Parkland, what should happen
Speaker 1: not just in Washington but all over the country. Shannon
Speaker 1: Watts High, Shannon, I'm so happy to have you on
Speaker 1: our podcast. Thanks so much for taking the time. Thank you, Katie,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me on. Why don't you remind
Speaker 1: people who may not know how Mom's Demand Action began,
Speaker 1: why it began, and where it began. I was watching
Speaker 1: the news December two thousand twelve and saw this just
Speaker 1: tragic news that there had been a school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: and I remember I was folding laundry at the time
Speaker 1: and just thought, dear God, don't let this be as
Speaker 1: bad as it seems. And you know, obviously it was.
Speaker 1: It was a million times worse than anyone could ever
Speaker 1: have fathom, ever fathom, and as a mom of five.
Speaker 1: That is how this issue impacted me. You know, when
Speaker 1: twenty six year olds and six educators can be shot
Speaker 1: and killed in the sanctity of an elementary school. UM,
Speaker 1: I just felt that it was finally time for me
Speaker 1: to get off the sidelines, specifically as a mom, and
Speaker 1: so I started a Facebook page and I had seventy
Speaker 1: five friends at the time, seventy five Facebook friends. I
Speaker 1: was no social media phenomen but what happened through the
Speaker 1: power of social media was that suddenly I was inundated
Speaker 1: by strangers across the country who wanted to start a chapter.
Speaker 1: I hadn't even realized I had started an organization, and
Speaker 1: suddenly people wanted to start chapters of Mom's Demand Action
Speaker 1: where they lived, and we were often running. And here
Speaker 1: we are five years later. UM we're one of the
Speaker 1: largest grassroots movements in the country. We have a chapter
Speaker 1: in every state, We have millions of supporters, and since Parkland,
Speaker 1: you know, we have hundreds of thousands of active volunteers.
Speaker 1: What was the action you were demanding at the outset?
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know much about organizing. UM. I
Speaker 1: was not politically active, and I really thought, okay, we
Speaker 1: needed to have a big march, not realizing that there
Speaker 1: had been this million mom march after Columbine in two
Speaker 1: thousand and very quickly, a lot of wonderful policy experts
Speaker 1: and members of Congress and even state lawmakers came to
Speaker 1: me and said, you know, what we really need is
Speaker 1: for women in particular to organize around this issue, to
Speaker 1: become a grassroots army that can kill bad bills and
Speaker 1: support good bills and change corporate policy. Um and and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what we've done. Let's talk about that because
Speaker 1: I think, you know, sometimes these grassroots movements take root
Speaker 1: and take hold, and yet people don't hear about everything
Speaker 1: that's been accomplished. And by the way, I think this
Speaker 1: is such a great example of the power of social
Speaker 1: media for for good. You were able to create something
Speaker 1: just through your virtual relationships with all these like minded people.
Speaker 1: So Shannon, five years later, tell us about some of
Speaker 1: the things that you've been able to do. So we
Speaker 1: had a call from the White House just a few
Speaker 1: weeks after we started, and they asked us to support
Speaker 1: what was called the Mansion to Me Bill, and that
Speaker 1: is a bill that would have closed a private sale
Speaker 1: loophole at a federal level in this country. And so
Speaker 1: that's what we focused on the first few months. Um,
Speaker 1: we all know that in April that bill failed by
Speaker 1: just a handful of votes in the Senate, and I
Speaker 1: really thought, Okay, well, we've we've done everything we could. Hear,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's time to pack up our our
Speaker 1: things and go home. Can you explain what the private
Speaker 1: sale loophole actually is? Absolutely so in this country, if
Speaker 1: you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, for example,
Speaker 1: at Walmart or any dealer who has a license to
Speaker 1: sell guns, you do have to have a background check.
Speaker 1: You do not have to have a background check if
Speaker 1: it is a private sale, and those are typically at
Speaker 1: gun shows or online or even in some states garage
Speaker 1: sales um and millions of guns are sold every year
Speaker 1: that way. And that is how dangerous people get ahold
Speaker 1: of guns very easily, domestic abusers and felons. I read
Speaker 1: I read a statistic just yesterday, Shannon that four two
Speaker 1: percent of US gun owners acquired their most recent firearm
Speaker 1: without a background check. So this is happening all the time. Well,
Speaker 1: when the when the Brady Bill was passed in the nineties,
Speaker 1: no one ever imagined there would be this online market
Speaker 1: for guns. I know, it's crazy, isn't it. I mean,
Speaker 1: so many people and there's absolutely no regulation at all. Right,
Speaker 1: so we failed just by a handful of votes in
Speaker 1: the Senate um in April two thirteen, and and again,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know what would happen to Mom's
Speaker 1: demand action at that point. What I didn't realize is
Speaker 1: that when you're working with so many type of women,
Speaker 1: there's really no going backward. There's going forward exactly. So
Speaker 1: you know, really our volunteers just intuitively pivoted to state
Speaker 1: houses and boardrooms, where we immediately began supporting governors who
Speaker 1: would pass this kind of legislation. In the wake of
Speaker 1: Sandy Hook. We did it in Delaware and Maryland and
Speaker 1: other states. Actually, we've closed that private sale loople in
Speaker 1: eight states and Sandy Hook, bringing the total of states
Speaker 1: that have done that to nineteen. And we also have
Speaker 1: to kill bad bills in states. We have about a
Speaker 1: ninety three percent track record of killing n r A
Speaker 1: supported bad bills like guns and schools or guns on
Speaker 1: college campuses, permitless carry, and we have to show up
Speaker 1: to do that in state houses year after year. And
Speaker 1: we also pivoted to corporations, and we have made significant
Speaker 1: changes in corporate policy. And since we started, everything from
Speaker 1: Starbucks to Chipotle to Target, and then since Parkland, nearly
Speaker 1: twenty companies have changed their gun policies. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: those companies, or you don't have to talk about all twenty,
Speaker 1: but a few of them and why it was so significant.
Speaker 1: You know, when lawmakers don't act to protect their constituents,
Speaker 1: it really is on companies to protect their customers. And
Speaker 1: it's also a really important lever that women can pull.
Speaker 1: We make about eight percent of the spending decisions for
Speaker 1: our families, and so what we initially started doing was
Speaker 1: asking companies to prohibit something called open carry, which is
Speaker 1: legal and forty five states. Um. It used to be
Speaker 1: that you could bring your our fifteen into Starbucks when
Speaker 1: you've got a latte in those states. You can't anymore
Speaker 1: because of our work. But what we saw after Parkland
Speaker 1: that was so interesting was that companies were stopping their
Speaker 1: discount programs with the n r A. And also we
Speaker 1: have seen companies raise the age of which you can
Speaker 1: buy a long gun. So many states allow you to
Speaker 1: buy a semi automatic rifle when you're eighteen years old.
Speaker 1: Even though you can't buy a handgun until you're twenty one.
Speaker 1: You can't drink, can't even rent a car, but you
Speaker 1: can buy an a R fifteen. And we've seen several
Speaker 1: companies l being Dicks Orvis Company and others change that
Speaker 1: age to twenty one and again acting when lawmakers won't so.
Speaker 1: In Florida, in the wake of Parkland, legislation was passed
Speaker 1: and signed that did raise the age with some loopholes,
Speaker 1: to twenty one for buying guns, but not for semi
Speaker 1: automatic weapons. Right, can you explain to a sham what
Speaker 1: happened in Florida and whether you supported that legislation. We
Speaker 1: you overwhelmingly that was really positive legislation. So it puts
Speaker 1: in place a red flag law. These laws are very important.
Speaker 1: We actually passed one in California after the shooting at
Speaker 1: UCSB and it allows families and police to petition a
Speaker 1: judge to get a temporary restraining order to remove the
Speaker 1: firearms of someone who seems to be a danger to
Speaker 1: themselves or others. It also raises the age that someone
Speaker 1: can buy a long gun from eighteen to twenty one,
Speaker 1: and a long gun is anything from a hunting rifle
Speaker 1: to a semi automatic rifle, and it puts in place
Speaker 1: just some safety mechanisms that we know are proven to
Speaker 1: to prevent gun violence. It does allow districts to arm
Speaker 1: administrative staff if they choose to do so. And because
Speaker 1: we have a grassroots army on the ground, we can
Speaker 1: now go district by district and and convince them not to.
Speaker 1: Why why is that so important? Because you know, I
Speaker 1: think people do hear this and some people just go
Speaker 1: crazy with the idea of teachers being armed. On the
Speaker 1: other hands, some people think, well, maybe it does make
Speaker 1: sense to have a stronger security or show of security
Speaker 1: and somebody who is trained to be standing guard at
Speaker 1: some of these schools. So can you help us make
Speaker 1: sense of that? Shannon? Absolutely. So. You know, first of all,
Speaker 1: we're not opposed to armed guards at schools who do
Speaker 1: have training and background checks. However, we have seen time
Speaker 1: and time again everything from colum Mined to the Pulse
Speaker 1: nightclub to Parkland, that even when there is an armed
Speaker 1: deputy on site, it doesn't necessarily stop someone who is
Speaker 1: perfectly willing to give up their lives as they commit
Speaker 1: mass homicide and often have an arsenal bulk Ammo even
Speaker 1: tactical gear, you know, which is no match necessarily for
Speaker 1: a deputy. But also I want to point out that
Speaker 1: even the most highly trained police have about eight rate
Speaker 1: of accuracy when shooting a moving target. So the idea
Speaker 1: that we are going to arm these volunteer teachers and
Speaker 1: turn them into sharpshooters is absurd. You know that the
Speaker 1: answer is not arming teachers, it's disarming dangerous people. Well,
Speaker 1: you know that's the n r A chestnut. The best
Speaker 1: way to deal with a bad guy with a gun
Speaker 1: is a good guy with a gun. And I think
Speaker 1: the research and the evidence really disproves that time and
Speaker 1: time again does and also, look, this shooter in Parkland
Speaker 1: was essentially a good guy in the n r a's
Speaker 1: mind until he shot and killed seventeen people. This was
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old who had legally purchased an Arsenal
Speaker 1: bulk Ammo tactical gear. He had never been convicted of
Speaker 1: a crime, he had never been adjudicated mentally ill. That
Speaker 1: is the definition of an nar A good guy, you know, Shannon,
Speaker 1: A lot of people knew this perpetrator in Parkland seemed
Speaker 1: to be bad news. Right. People had seen him practicing
Speaker 1: with guns in his backyard. I don't know all the details,
Speaker 1: but had observed disturbing behavior on Instagram and all sorts
Speaker 1: of places that would have raised a red flag, reported
Speaker 1: him to the FBI, right exactly. So, I guess the
Speaker 1: question is, with these red flag laws, how do you
Speaker 1: enforce them and how do you ensure that people if
Speaker 1: they see something, they say something. It's really important that
Speaker 1: that last point you made about when you see something,
Speaker 1: say something. I mean, we have this law, for example
Speaker 1: in California now because when the UCSB shooting happened, uh,
Speaker 1: the parents had gone to the police many times and said, look,
Speaker 1: our son is armed and dangerous, and they said, there's
Speaker 1: nothing we can do. He's never been convicted of a crime,
Speaker 1: he's never been adjudicated mentally ill. We cannot remove his weapons.
Speaker 1: And so now our job in California is to educate
Speaker 1: people about this law and to let them know they
Speaker 1: can take advantage of it. Right that police and families
Speaker 1: can petition a judge and get a temporary restraining order
Speaker 1: to move remove someone's guns if they seem to be
Speaker 1: a danger to themselves or others. And if Florida had
Speaker 1: had that law, it would have made it a lot
Speaker 1: easier to intervene and to really understand what this teenager
Speaker 1: was planning. But I guess the n r A goes
Speaker 1: nuts over that. The opposes that that people who are
Speaker 1: law abiding said is and suddenly they will figuratively be
Speaker 1: in the crosshairs of the authorities and their guns will
Speaker 1: be taken away. Is that right the n r A. Look,
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for five years. The n RA
Speaker 1: opposes every single law that is proven by data to
Speaker 1: slow gun violence. And it isn't necessarily because they really
Speaker 1: disagree with the law. It's because they believe any law,
Speaker 1: no matter how small, no matter how incremental, is a
Speaker 1: slippery slope to confiscation, or at least that's what they
Speaker 1: tell their members. Well, let's talk about the power of
Speaker 1: the n r A and where it actually comes from,
Speaker 1: because I think there are a lot of misunderstandings that
Speaker 1: you know, millions of law abiding members the n r
Speaker 1: A chip in small dollars and that's where they get
Speaker 1: their political punch. But really the story is different from that.
Speaker 1: That's right. The n RA could have zero members and
Speaker 1: still be a political powerhouse because they receive a majority
Speaker 1: of the million dollar annual budget they have from gun manufacturers. UM,
Speaker 1: this idea that they have five million members has been
Speaker 1: proven to be a myth by reporters. So many of
Speaker 1: those people are dead or they just joined for the discounts. UM.
Speaker 1: I can assure you that when we show up at
Speaker 1: state houses, it's typically dozens or hundreds of moms to
Speaker 1: be an action volunteers versus one nr A lobbyist, for
Speaker 1: example in Florida. UM. This this is not about the
Speaker 1: n r A being powerful because they have millions of
Speaker 1: motivated members. It's because they have millions of dollars from
Speaker 1: gun manufacturers. One thing we should point out is n
Speaker 1: r A members actually believe in sensible gun laws and
Speaker 1: believe that they should change. Is that right, Channon, that's right.
Speaker 1: So a Republican poster found that sev of all n
Speaker 1: r A members actually support common sense gun laws like
Speaker 1: closing the background check loophole. And also it's important to
Speaker 1: keep in mind that only about one out of every
Speaker 1: nine or ten gun owners actually even belongs to the
Speaker 1: n r A, and when you pull gun owners more generally,
Speaker 1: about eight of them support stronger gun laws. So this
Speaker 1: is really about a radicalized n r A leadership. It
Speaker 1: is not in any way into not only with America,
Speaker 1: but even its own members. In fact, when we did
Speaker 1: that film Under the Gun and you were featured in it,
Speaker 1: shann and so many people who are gun owners said,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this movie, because you
Speaker 1: are expressing the views of most gun owners in this
Speaker 1: country that have been silenced or who really don't have
Speaker 1: a voice in this entire debate. But tell us more
Speaker 1: about the unholy alliance between gun manufacturers and the n
Speaker 1: r A and how that works and why that's so important,
Speaker 1: and understanding how the n r A operates. So the
Speaker 1: n r A is basically just a lobbying organization that
Speaker 1: solely exists at this point to protect the profits of
Speaker 1: gun manufacturers. You know, back in the seventies, it used
Speaker 1: to be hunting and sportsmen's organization focused on gun safety
Speaker 1: and training. That all went out the window about two
Speaker 1: or three decades ago when what happened was gun manufacturers
Speaker 1: started selling more guns to fewer people. And that's an
Speaker 1: aging out demographic, typically a white man over the age
Speaker 1: of fifty or sixty, and so when they realized that
Speaker 1: they needed to open up the market for guns, sales
Speaker 1: is when all of their sort of moderate beliefs, and
Speaker 1: in fact, in Wayne la Pierre said he didn't support
Speaker 1: guns in schools and and he supported a background check
Speaker 1: over every gun sale, those moderate beliefs have gone out
Speaker 1: the window. They became much more radicalized because in order
Speaker 1: to inculcate the next generation of gun buyers, they have
Speaker 1: to force guns into K through twelve schools, They have
Speaker 1: to put guns on college campuses, they have to sell
Speaker 1: guns to women. And so what we've seen is that
Speaker 1: because they no longer have a boogeyman in the White
Speaker 1: House to say this person is going to take your
Speaker 1: guns away, they have to make us afraid of one another.
Speaker 1: And we're seeing that more and more. If you have
Speaker 1: the misfortune of watching n R A t V, you
Speaker 1: will see that their whole purposes to foment this culture war.
Speaker 1: And and isn't it also giving sort of fancier souped
Speaker 1: up guns with more bells and whistles to get people
Speaker 1: who currently already own guns to buy more guns. Well,
Speaker 1: the terry is convinced this subset of people it sells
Speaker 1: guns too, that they need an arsenal, they need, you know,
Speaker 1: ten A R fifteens. They need six glocks and and
Speaker 1: that's actually the biggest problem for the organization is that
Speaker 1: they need to open up that market of gun sales.
Speaker 1: In fact, since Donald Trump was elected president, gun sales
Speaker 1: have gone down ten or over a hundred million dollars.
Speaker 1: And that's why, for example, we see the n r
Speaker 1: A trying to deregulate silencers because they can't convince someone
Speaker 1: to buy another gun necessarily, but they can convince them
Speaker 1: to buy accessories. So let's talk about whether anything is
Speaker 1: actually going to change at the federal level in the
Speaker 1: wake of the Parkland shooting. Is their hope for legislation
Speaker 1: that could make a meaningful difference? Uh? You know, look,
Speaker 1: I I understand that everybody would like this cathartic moment
Speaker 1: in Congress. I would too, But the wins that we're
Speaker 1: looking for may come in the state houses, they may
Speaker 1: become in corporate boardrooms until we get a Congress and
Speaker 1: the president in place who will do the right thing. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, the President came out after saying one thing
Speaker 1: about what he promised at a federal level, he's now
Speaker 1: backtracking and just sort of putting forth a plan that
Speaker 1: was clearly written by the n r A, and these
Speaker 1: incremental changes that he's talking about um really do nothing
Speaker 1: to solve our gun violence problem. That is why our
Speaker 1: organization is so incredibly focused on the midterm elections. If
Speaker 1: we really want to send a strong signal to to
Speaker 1: our members of Congress and to our state houses, we
Speaker 1: have to use our votes in the November elections, and
Speaker 1: we have to be educated about where our candidates and
Speaker 1: lawmakers stand on this issue, and we have to vote accordingly.
Speaker 1: We've seen this movie before, terrible school shooting, you know,
Speaker 1: the nation grieving and then forgetting, and everyone seems to
Speaker 1: think Shannon for whatever reason. Actually, I'd like to ask
Speaker 1: you if you think this why Parkland is different? These
Speaker 1: kids are different. That's not saying anything about the beautiful
Speaker 1: lives that were lost in tragedies like this in this country.
Speaker 1: But for some reason, in this time, with these voices,
Speaker 1: something's going to change. Do you agree with that? I do,
Speaker 1: and I think it already has changed. I mean, we
Speaker 1: have nearly two hundred thousand new volunteers and millions of
Speaker 1: new members who have joined us just since Parkland. We
Speaker 1: actually started something called Students Demand Action, and nearly twenty
Speaker 1: thou people have joined that we are seeing a change
Speaker 1: like we've never seen before. And I think that's for
Speaker 1: a few reasons. One is that we saw not only
Speaker 1: the survivors, but also the entire community of Parkland come
Speaker 1: together after the shooting with one clear call to action
Speaker 1: within hours, and that call to action was that we
Speaker 1: needed stronger gun loss. And look, that may be because
Speaker 1: of all the work that we've been doing for five
Speaker 1: years to educate people about the tissue. It may be
Speaker 1: because people are so tired of mass shootings in this country.
Speaker 1: I mean, the largest mass shooting in the history of
Speaker 1: our country in Las Vegas, happened on President Trump's watch. Um.
Speaker 1: But I also think that we are starting to see
Speaker 1: this generation lockdown become adults. So for the last eighteen
Speaker 1: years or so, we've been telling these kids, look, active
Speaker 1: shooter drills are no different than fire drills or earthquake drills.
Speaker 1: These are acts of nature, essentially, and they're becoming adults
Speaker 1: like my seventeen year old son, and they're realizing they've
Speaker 1: been sold a bill of goods. These are acts of cowardice.
Speaker 1: This is the complete inaction of our lawmakers to protect them.
Speaker 1: And I think they're really angry. And the the argument
Speaker 1: or the trope used by the n r A and
Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans in Washington is this is really
Speaker 1: a mental health issue. This isn't a gun issue. What's
Speaker 1: your reaction to that? There are a few things to
Speaker 1: say about that. And that is definitely a straw man
Speaker 1: that you see Republicans break out every time there's a
Speaker 1: mass shooting or her fixed shooting tragedy in this country.
Speaker 1: It's so infuriating, isn't it. It is an And here's why.
Speaker 1: First of all, it stigmatizes mental illness. You know, we
Speaker 1: we're hearing nr A pundits and and Donald Trump say
Speaker 1: things like they were sickos. Look, people who are mentally
Speaker 1: ill are much more likely to be a victim a
Speaker 1: violent crime than they are to be the perpetrator. But also,
Speaker 1: if the issue of the mentally ill having guns was
Speaker 1: so important to this president UH and this Congress, they
Speaker 1: wouldn't have made the very first action they took to
Speaker 1: roll back an Obama rule that prevented UH social Security
Speaker 1: recipients who were too mentally ill to handle their benefits
Speaker 1: from buying guns. That was the first thing Donald Trump
Speaker 1: did was to roll back that role so none of
Speaker 1: it rings true. You know, we've seen them point fingers
Speaker 1: that everything from mental illness to video games to even
Speaker 1: single parents since Parkland, all of that is to distract
Speaker 1: us from what is the truth, and it's easy access
Speaker 1: to guns. Well, and the reality is in other countries,
Speaker 1: there's mental illness, there are violent video games and their
Speaker 1: single parents, and no other country has the mass shooting
Speaker 1: problem that we have in this country. That is exactly right.
Speaker 1: We have the same rates of mental illnesses other high
Speaker 1: income countries. We watched the same movies, we play the
Speaker 1: same video games. What's different is that we have easy
Speaker 1: access to guns. We have three million guns and very
Speaker 1: few gun laws. Let's talk about sort of what really works, Shannon, though.
Speaker 1: You know, one step is obviously closing the gun show
Speaker 1: loophole and private sellers and online with background checks. But
Speaker 1: that is just the tip of the iceberg, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Because even with among licensed gun dealers, the records are
Speaker 1: not really updated or up to speed. There is an
Speaker 1: evidence when somebody with a record of domestic violence and
Speaker 1: mental health issues, are the proper red flags raised. I mean,
Speaker 1: what are some of the other areas that need attention
Speaker 1: from people who want to do something about this. Katie.
Speaker 1: One thing I always recommend to people is that they
Speaker 1: watched Under the Gun, because I think you all did
Speaker 1: an amazing job of digging into the complexities of this
Speaker 1: issue and what needs to be fixed. But we you
Speaker 1: know that closing the background check loophole would save a
Speaker 1: lot of lives. If you look at the nineteen states
Speaker 1: that have done that, you see gun violence cut almost
Speaker 1: in half across the board. So that is the first
Speaker 1: thing that we need to do. But a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't realize that. Also, Um, there are glaring loopholes.
Speaker 1: For example, in domestic violence laws, they don't include stalkers
Speaker 1: or dating partners as prohibited purchasers. So we have to
Speaker 1: go into each state and change those laws to give
Speaker 1: them teeth. We've done it now in twenty five states,
Speaker 1: red and blue across the country. UM. We also, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, go into states and pass laws that bolster
Speaker 1: the NIXT system, the system that we put information records into.
Speaker 1: Two show who is a prohibited buyer and Y. And
Speaker 1: you know, another really interesting thing that people don't realize
Speaker 1: is that if you do go to a license dealer
Speaker 1: and try to buy a gun and you're flagged as
Speaker 1: a prohibited purchaser that isn't necessarily reported to the police,
Speaker 1: and that's a huge red flag. So we work to
Speaker 1: change those laws as well. But don't forget that. All
Speaker 1: while we're doing these things, the n r A is
Speaker 1: working really hard to pass laws that endanger us. So
Speaker 1: in thirteen states, for example, the n r A has
Speaker 1: passed permitless carry laws, which means you don't have to
Speaker 1: have a background check or training or even a permit
Speaker 1: to carry a gun to conceal carry a gun in
Speaker 1: that state. So while we're trying to pass these good laws,
Speaker 1: we also have to stop these bad laws. And there's
Speaker 1: a recent law about interest state. If you have a
Speaker 1: concealed carry permit in one state, you can use it
Speaker 1: when you go to another state that I know Cyrus
Speaker 1: Fancy is fighting against what happened with that. So this
Speaker 1: bill is actually winding its way through Congress still. And
Speaker 1: after every mass shooting, including Parkland, you hear the n
Speaker 1: r A and the President suggests that somehow something called
Speaker 1: concealed carry reciprocity would would help our gun violent situation.
Speaker 1: The n Y has been trying to pass concealed carrey
Speaker 1: reciprocity for nearly twenty years. They have failed every time
Speaker 1: because doesn't mean exactly explain it to our listeners, Shannon's
Speaker 1: So basically what would happen is the weakest law of
Speaker 1: the land to get a gun permit would become the
Speaker 1: law of the land everywhere. So, for example, to get
Speaker 1: a gun permit in Alabama, you do not have to
Speaker 1: be eighteen, you can have a background of of convicted violence,
Speaker 1: you can have d u wise, you don't have to
Speaker 1: have live fire training. It's one of the weakest permit
Speaker 1: requirements in the country. Under concealed caree reciprocity, you could
Speaker 1: then take that permit and your gun into any state
Speaker 1: of the country, no matter how strong their gun laws are.
Speaker 1: So it's really uh behind the scenes way to upend
Speaker 1: state laws. Can you just before we go, because we're
Speaker 1: going to have to wrap Unfortunately, Shannon, I could talk
Speaker 1: to you about this all day. Urban violence is such
Speaker 1: a problem. So many black kids are killed by gun
Speaker 1: violence on the streets of cities across the country every day,
Speaker 1: and there is this feeling that when white children are
Speaker 1: white victims are in the news, it gets so much
Speaker 1: more attention. And this daily drip drip drip of wrath,
Speaker 1: of of shootings that you see on the streets of
Speaker 1: these cities. What can be done about urban violence and
Speaker 1: all the kids of color that are killed regularly in
Speaker 1: cities like Chicago. Look, this is a very big and
Speaker 1: complicated issue, and there are a lot of different ways
Speaker 1: that we can address gun violence. You know, our organization
Speaker 1: is focused mainly on changing gun laws. And when we
Speaker 1: look at laws like closing the background check loophole, we
Speaker 1: know that that significantly reduces gun trafficking, for example. And
Speaker 1: when you talk about Chicago, the majority of the crime
Speaker 1: guns that are in Chicago actually come from Indiana, which
Speaker 1: is just twenty minutes away from Chicago. You can go
Speaker 1: across the border, fill up your truck with semi automatic
Speaker 1: rifles and handguns with no background check, drive back twenty
Speaker 1: minutes and sell them um And so we do know
Speaker 1: that bad Apple gun dealers, by the way, so dozen
Speaker 1: of guns to somebody who then sells them on the
Speaker 1: streets of Chicago, and there's nothing prohibiting them from doing so.
Speaker 1: There's actually a bill that just passed the Illinois legislature.
Speaker 1: We're hoping the governor will sign it into law. Um,
Speaker 1: we're putting pressure on him to do so, and it
Speaker 1: would actually address that issue. It would require those gun
Speaker 1: dealers themselves to have background checks. Well, obviously you're making
Speaker 1: some strides and you're going to be part of this march.
Speaker 1: That's right. I will be in Washington, d C. Supporting
Speaker 1: the students and just hoping that this momentum will take
Speaker 1: us into the midterms. Well, Shannon Watts, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for talking with us. As always, Shannon, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to personally say congratulations to your army of moms
Speaker 1: and allies who are out there fighting the good fight,
Speaker 1: donating their time and energy and dollars two really ushering
Speaker 1: in some kind of change in this country. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you as always to our lovely producer,
Speaker 1: who we really do like so much. We don't just
Speaker 1: say it, no, we we do mean it. And Gianna
Speaker 1: I really enjoy working with you and appreciate everything you do.
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer is our producer. I also really like our
Speaker 1: audio engineer who's a super nice guy, Jared O'Connell, and
Speaker 1: our assistant producer Nora Richie Nor I like you too.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to leave you out special thanks This
Speaker 1: week to Pony Sound Studios in Austin, Texas, where we're
Speaker 1: now sitting. We should record a country western song in
Speaker 1: this room, Katie, here's a wagon wheel on the wall.
Speaker 1: It's a very very interesting and different from our New
Speaker 1: York studio. Thanks to Loose Fleming in New York and
Speaker 1: kg and you Community Radio in Boulder, Colorado. They all
Speaker 1: helped us to get this show recorded on the road.
Speaker 1: It takes a village, as Katie would say, Thanks to everybody.
Speaker 1: Also to Beth Dems, my assistant, Emily Beena over at
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk Media, and Alison Bresnik, who gets the word
Speaker 1: out so well about our podcast. On social media, Mark
Speaker 1: Phillips wrote our theme music. You can find me on
Speaker 1: social media. I am an animal on Insta stories. You
Speaker 1: should check those out. You see a whole different side
Speaker 1: of me that maybe you don't want to see, but anyway,
Speaker 1: check me out at Katie Kuric and Brian of course
Speaker 1: is on Twitter at Goldsmith b And here's one more
Speaker 1: reminder to please call in with your thoughts and feedback.
Speaker 1: We really do appreciate them. That number we got all
Speaker 1: sexy there in your voice for a second, What was
Speaker 1: that about? Thoughts and feedback that may us be you
Speaker 1: or maybe I need to blow my nose. That number
Speaker 1: again is four four six three seven, or you can
Speaker 1: email us at comments at current podcast dot com. And
Speaker 1: we really do love hearing from you. It actually makes
Speaker 1: me feel closer to all of you and makes me
Speaker 1: feel like you're enjoying the podcast, which motivates and inspires
Speaker 1: us to keep doing it. So thank you. We're off
Speaker 1: next week, but after that we won't have another break
Speaker 1: until the very end of May, so don't panic, dear listeners,
Speaker 1: will be back very soon. H