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Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. Well, you know, we have actually

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Speaker 1: a very serious show today, because while we've talked about

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Speaker 1: the dizzey and pace of news, it's sometimes hard to

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Speaker 1: process the daily barrage of stories that have been filling

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Speaker 1: up our timelines and news feeds. And that's what we

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Speaker 1: wanted to do today. We wanted to step back and

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Speaker 1: give some perspective to a particularly horrific event that happened recently,

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Speaker 1: and the topic is gun violence. The event is the

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Speaker 1: shooting at Parkland in Florida. And I'm just heartbroken, as

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Speaker 1: I know you are every time you hear about another

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Speaker 1: mass shooting. That's right, it's like a broken record, sadly,

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Speaker 1: and it's happening far too frequently. I know that we're

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Speaker 1: all devastated for the families in Parkland, Florida. We're seventeen

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Speaker 1: people at Marjorie Stone and Douglas High School were killed

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Speaker 1: in February. Many others were injured, and of course the

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Speaker 1: entire higher school and community completely traumatized when a nineteen

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Speaker 1: year old former student at the school returned with an

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Speaker 1: a R fifteen and open fire. I know this time

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Speaker 1: is different. Has become kind of a cliche but this

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Speaker 1: time really does feel different, um, namely because of how

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Speaker 1: the students at the school have responded. They've been remarkable.

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Speaker 1: I talked to Mark Bardon, who is the father from

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Speaker 1: Sandy Hook who lost his adorable son Daniel in that massacre,

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Speaker 1: and we were trying to understand why this felt different,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's because, as you mentioned, Brian, these

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Speaker 1: high school students, they are smart, they're learning the issue,

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Speaker 1: and they're making their voices be heard. So it's almost

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Speaker 1: this built in advocacy group that has sprung up from

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Speaker 1: this horrific tragedy. You're exactly right. I mean, they're pressuring

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Speaker 1: politicians on social media. They organized a national school walkout day,

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Speaker 1: and also of course a march in Washington that's coming

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Speaker 1: up on Saturday, March, two days after this episode drops.

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Speaker 1: And that brings us to our first guest, Ali Sheehy.

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Speaker 1: She is a senior at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School

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Speaker 1: in Parkland, a really sweet, nice, kind of typical high

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Speaker 1: school senior. Thinking about the things that high school seniors

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Speaker 1: think about their future, how to get through exams, graduation,

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Speaker 1: prom all these rites of passage when this happens. But

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Speaker 1: as you listen to her, I think you're going to

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Speaker 1: realize how extraordinary she actually is. She was so gracious

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Speaker 1: and open about her experience. It was very moving to

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Speaker 1: speak with her and today, By the way, it's a

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Speaker 1: two part episode. Our second guest is Shannon Watts, the

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Speaker 1: founder of Mom's Demand Action, which is a group pushing

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Speaker 1: for reform of our gun loss. She's another remarkable woman.

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Speaker 1: She started Mom's Demand Action as a stay at home

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Speaker 1: mom with five kids, no political experience. She had some

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Speaker 1: experiencing corporate communications, but like so many Americans, when she

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Speaker 1: heard about this shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: she said enough, I have got to do something. So

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Speaker 1: she decided to take action and decided to start this

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Speaker 1: organization that has grown tremendously and accomplished so much in

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Speaker 1: just five years. Mom's Demand Action now has fifty chapters

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Speaker 1: over a hundred thousand act of volunteers working to pass

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Speaker 1: what they call common sense gun reforms on the state

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Speaker 1: and federal level. You'll be hearing from Shannon a bit

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Speaker 1: later in the show, but first our conversation with an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary student from Parkland, Florida, Ali Sheehy. Hey, Ali, it's

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Speaker 1: Katie Kuric. Can you hear me? Okay, yes I can.

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Speaker 1: Very nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well.

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Speaker 1: And this is Brian Goldsmith. Hey, Ali, it's nice to

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Speaker 1: meet you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me so Ali. Gosh, Um, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to really figure out where to begin. You're eighteen

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Speaker 1: years old, you're a senior in high school at Marjorie

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Speaker 1: Stoneman Douglas High School. I guess I'm going to ask

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Speaker 1: the question that reporters are told not to ask, but

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Speaker 1: somehow I feel is appropriate given the situation. How are

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Speaker 1: you doing? Um? I think right now all of us

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Speaker 1: are kind of doing the best that we can. It's

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Speaker 1: getting used to our new normal that we have at

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Speaker 1: our school and our community right now. And how would

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Speaker 1: you describe that new normal? I don't really think that

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Speaker 1: there's a way to describe it. There's just a wave

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Speaker 1: of emotions that kind of affects everybody differently at this point,

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Speaker 1: and we're just kind of trying to all get through

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Speaker 1: it together because you don't know what the person next

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Speaker 1: to you is thinking or going through, or how this

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Speaker 1: aspected them. It's just kind of a sensitive situation that

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Speaker 1: we're all in right now. I'm sure you know everyone

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Speaker 1: deals with trauma differently, and is it a fairly unified

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Speaker 1: situation at the high school or if you've seen evidence

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Speaker 1: of people kind of at each other because of this

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Speaker 1: and dealing with emotion, you know, these very heavy emotions

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Speaker 1: at the same time. I mean, for the most part

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Speaker 1: right now at our school, we're all very unified, we're

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Speaker 1: all one family. But even in a family, you have

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Speaker 1: fights between people, and right now, most of the conflict

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Speaker 1: is between the political aspects of this kind of argument

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Speaker 1: that we're having, with the left and the right and

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Speaker 1: liberals and conservatives at our school having different viewpoints and

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Speaker 1: different ways that they want to take this, And it's

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Speaker 1: just something that's hard to see because this is not

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Speaker 1: the time to argue between ourselves. It's something it's a

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Speaker 1: time that we all need to be together, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's just angers me to see people arguing over something

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Speaker 1: that we don't need to argue about. So Ali, before

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Speaker 1: we talk about that terrible day and before we talk

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Speaker 1: more about the aftermath, can you tell our listeners a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your life before the shooting, about your

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Speaker 1: senior year. I know you describe yourself as a happy,

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Speaker 1: go lucky person. Before this, what were your interests and

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Speaker 1: activities and what's Parkland, Florida like? Um? Before this, I

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Speaker 1: was focused on my senior year getting AP tests and

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Speaker 1: finishing that out. And the week before that, I was

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Speaker 1: worried about my AP stack quiz that I had on

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Speaker 1: Friday that I didn't understand anything that I was doing,

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Speaker 1: so I was kind of studying really hard for that,

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Speaker 1: and UM prom is coming up, So my friends and

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Speaker 1: I we're kind of worried about that and which jess

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Speaker 1: we're going on and what friends are coming with us,

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Speaker 1: and what bus we're going on and sort of normal

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Speaker 1: high school things, right. And I also that day that morning, UM,

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Speaker 1: I asked my best friend if she wanted to be

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Speaker 1: my roommate in college. Where is where are you going

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Speaker 1: to school? Alley? I'm going to UCF in this summer.

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Speaker 1: And what's Parkland, Florida like? I mean, I know, it's

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Speaker 1: about halfway between Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale and it's

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Speaker 1: a fairly small, tight knit community. Well, we kind of

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Speaker 1: describe it as the Parkland Bubble because it's really just

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Speaker 1: a tight knit community of family and it's very family oriented.

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Speaker 1: It's a city that families with small children moved to

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Speaker 1: specifically because of the atmosphere that we have. The population

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Speaker 1: is kind of small, and we have a plus schools,

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Speaker 1: and it's just something that people come to feel safe at.

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Speaker 1: It's a safe city. So you expressed to our producers

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Speaker 1: you are willing to talk about that day, and we

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Speaker 1: don't want to read troum ties you Ali, So you

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Speaker 1: talk about whatever you're comfortable talking about. But as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you were thinking about the prom, you were talking to

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Speaker 1: your best friend about college, you were worried about an

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Speaker 1: AP test, and then suddenly those concerns, which are legitimate

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Speaker 1: for a high school senior, for any student across the country,

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Speaker 1: but they became obviously something that I had no weight

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Speaker 1: in your life. Tell us about where you were and

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Speaker 1: what you witnessed and what that day was like for

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Speaker 1: you personally. UM My morning started out normally. I got

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Speaker 1: up late because I didn't want to get out of

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Speaker 1: bed because I'm not a morning person. Um. But I

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Speaker 1: got to school, I hung out with my friends and

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Speaker 1: the parking lot, and I asked my best friend to

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Speaker 1: be my roommate. I made a little sign and I said,

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Speaker 1: will you be my Valentine but crossed out Valentine and

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Speaker 1: wrote roommate and she said yes, and we had a

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Speaker 1: big hug um and then we all separated and we

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Speaker 1: didn't think any of a thing of it, and we

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Speaker 1: just saw said a quick bye, see you later, and

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Speaker 1: we went to our first period and the morning announcements

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Speaker 1: came on and UM, our assistant principal came on for

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Speaker 1: his usual normal UM morning announcements and he started talking

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Speaker 1: about like the protocols in our zones for fire drills,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, there must be a fire drill

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Speaker 1: coming up later, And sure enough, second period, the fire

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Speaker 1: alarm one goes off. We all walk out of the building, calmly,

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Speaker 1: stand in rose, go back in. Ten minutes later, class continues.

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Speaker 1: Fourth period comes around and my teacher we kind of

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Speaker 1: got halfway through class and we were in a project

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Speaker 1: because we just finished reading Macbeth and we were doing

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Speaker 1: a project on that, and she had to leave early

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Speaker 1: because she had to drop her kid off at the doctor,

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Speaker 1: so she had to drop us off in the auditorium

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Speaker 1: because there weren't enough subs that day to cover uh,

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Speaker 1: So we had a teacher from the freshman building come

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Speaker 1: over with his class, and then we were sitting and

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Speaker 1: finishing up our project and we're kind of goofing around,

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Speaker 1: and then the fire alarm went off again, and we

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Speaker 1: were kind of confused because we didn't know why this

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Speaker 1: would happen so close to the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: So we got up, we walked outside, and we heard

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Speaker 1: some pops. We didn't think anything of it, but then

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Speaker 1: we saw kids running and screaming, and so we were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this must be like a real fire. We should start

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Speaker 1: walking faster um, and we picked up the pace, but

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Speaker 1: then we were our auditorium is right next to the administration,

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Speaker 1: like the office, and administrators were telling us to turn

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Speaker 1: back and go back inside. So we ran back inside

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Speaker 1: and we're like, this is weird. Why are we doing this?

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Speaker 1: And for the first ten minutes we thought that this

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Speaker 1: was a drill, like this was a code red jill.

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Speaker 1: But the more and more we thought about it, the

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Speaker 1: more and more we realized why would they make a

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Speaker 1: code red drill so closely end of school, Why would

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Speaker 1: they not tell the teachers, and why would so many

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Speaker 1: sirens be coming from outside? And I immediately started texting

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Speaker 1: all my friends and trying to calm down the people

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Speaker 1: around me, because kids that I've gone to school with

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Speaker 1: for my entire life, basically we're breaking down crying. We

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Speaker 1: all thought we didn't know if we were going to

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Speaker 1: make it out. And that's a very scary thing to

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Speaker 1: think about. It's not something I ever want anybody else

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Speaker 1: to text to their parents, because I know. I texted

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Speaker 1: my mom and I said, I don't know if this

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Speaker 1: is real, but I want to let you know I

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Speaker 1: love you. And she responded back saying what and ten

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Speaker 1: minutes past and I said, Mom, it's real. So you

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Speaker 1: went back into the school after you had left the school.

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Speaker 1: We didn't actually leave like the school grounds. We were

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Speaker 1: just outside of the auditorium, so we didn't It's one

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Speaker 1: of those things that you drill for and teachers are

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Speaker 1: told to put you back into the building when this happens.

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Speaker 1: Where was your class before your teacher left early? I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious, was your class in the area. No, I

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Speaker 1: actually moved closer to where it was happening. If she

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Speaker 1: did not leave early, we would have been in the

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Speaker 1: nine building, which is the furthest one away from where

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Speaker 1: it happened, and we would have been in the backfield

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Speaker 1: and already evacuated to Walmart when it happened. When you

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Speaker 1: when did you realize, Ali, what had happened inside that school?

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Speaker 1: It was when I started getting messages from my friends

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Speaker 1: that were in that building saying, I'm I love you

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Speaker 1: and it's real, it's happening. Like two kids in my

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Speaker 1: class were just shot and there's blood everywhere. So kids

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Speaker 1: were texting you as it was actually going on. Did

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Speaker 1: you know many of the students who lost their lives

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Speaker 1: that day? Um? I knew a few. Um. Three of

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Speaker 1: them were my grade. Um. One of them, Carmen, was

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Speaker 1: in some of my classes, and one of the younger ones,

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Speaker 1: one of the freshman's that passed away. Um, is on

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Speaker 1: my little sister's soccer team, and the two coaches saw

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Speaker 1: them every morning. Just hard to believe, isn't it? Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Is it hard to talk about this for you, Ali? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to listen. I can only imagine having to

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Speaker 1: tell the story. I'm hesitant even to ask this, But

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Speaker 1: did you know the shooter at all? I did. He

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Speaker 1: was in grade before he got expelled. What can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about him? Um? He was just Um the

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Speaker 1: best way I can describe him. Was. He was a

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Speaker 1: weird person that went up to anybody and everybody and

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Speaker 1: talked to them like he knew them already. And me,

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Speaker 1: as a shy person that doesn't really like talking to people,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of awkward and I'd always try to

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Speaker 1: shuffle away whenever he came up to me. But he

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Speaker 1: was very persistent and would talk about the most randomous things.

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Speaker 1: And he was a kid that went to our middle school.

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Speaker 1: It's he had had problems all before. He had to

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Speaker 1: bring a plastic bag to school because he couldn't bring

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Speaker 1: his backpack anymore, so that they could see what he

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Speaker 1: brought to school, because he was that much of a threat.

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Speaker 1: Are you surprised that more wasn't done or disturbed that

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Speaker 1: more wasn't done given the warning signs that seemed in

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Speaker 1: retrospect to have been everywhere. I'm disturbed by it, definitely,

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Speaker 1: because this is something that should never have happened. But

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Speaker 1: it's also something that I know my school did the

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Speaker 1: most that they could have, given the laws and the

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Speaker 1: rules that they're given as teachers. There was nothing that

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Speaker 1: the school could have done. It was left to our

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Speaker 1: government and our local police officers. But even though you

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Speaker 1: were limited and it's just something that never should have happened.

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Speaker 1: We'll be taking a quick break and we'll be back

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Speaker 1: with Parkland student Ali She right after this, and now

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Speaker 1: back with Alie She in the math aftermath of this tragedy.

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Speaker 1: I know your focus is on school safety, whereas I

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Speaker 1: know some many of your classmates are focused on changing

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Speaker 1: gun laws. So how did you decide to focus on

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Speaker 1: this aspect of the issue. And I'm curious about if

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Speaker 1: that's created any tension among your classmates. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's tension among our classmates. For me personally, I'm not

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Speaker 1: only talking about school safety, I believe and stronger and

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Speaker 1: stricter gun laws. It's just that we already have a

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Speaker 1: forefront for the gun laws. People. Those are my friends.

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Speaker 1: Those people that are speaking out are students from my school.

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Speaker 1: They I've known them forever. They're talking about it. They

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Speaker 1: have a strong argument with them already, but we're kind

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Speaker 1: of working in conjunction with them to get this full

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Speaker 1: spectrum of problems that need to be fixed. When you

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Speaker 1: say that you're focused on school safety, what does that

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Speaker 1: actually mean. Well, I've looked into it, and for fire

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Speaker 1: jewels for our schools, I don't know if it's every

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Speaker 1: county yet. I haven't done enough research, but we're required

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Speaker 1: to have a fire drill once every month. That means

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Speaker 1: that we have ten fire drills every single school years.

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Speaker 1: Since we've been in kindergarten, that has been something that

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Speaker 1: has been drilled into our heads that it's an automatic

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Speaker 1: response to get up and walk out of the classroom

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Speaker 1: when that bell goes off. For code red drills, we

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Speaker 1: don't practice them that that often. It's not an automatic

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Speaker 1: response to get up and go to the safest corner

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Speaker 1: of the room. It's something that in a moment that

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Speaker 1: we haven't practiced as much as fire drills, that people

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Speaker 1: freeze and they don't know what to do and they panic.

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Speaker 1: And I I've talked to people that were in the building.

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Speaker 1: I know people that were in some of the rooms,

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Speaker 1: and some of the people in those rooms that actually

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Speaker 1: passed away was because they went for the window first

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Speaker 1: instead of going towards the corner. Or people started going

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Speaker 1: towards the corner, but they weren't completely out of sight

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Speaker 1: from the window and the door, so they were out

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Speaker 1: in the open and they got hit. And it's something

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Speaker 1: that needs to become a second nature that a fire

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Speaker 1: drill is because it's unacceptable. It's even disturbing that we

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Speaker 1: have to practice these kinds of things. But it's something

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Speaker 1: that is our new reality. This is something that we've

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Speaker 1: grown up with our entire lives. Like when Columbine happened,

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Speaker 1: I was not even born, so that was something that

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Speaker 1: the schools implemented as I went to school. I've grown

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Speaker 1: up with this and it's something that definitely needs to

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Speaker 1: be fixed on multiple levels. But right now we should

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Speaker 1: be fixing the problems that we have. It's just a

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Speaker 1: big cluster of wrong right. And what what do you

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Speaker 1: make of President Trump's recommendation that more teachers should be armed?

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? Alley I that is

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Speaker 1: the worst idea I have ever heard in my life.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely eat that idea. It's once you're in that situation,

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Speaker 1: you understand. But a swat team coming into your room,

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Speaker 1: they have their guns drawn, they have they asked and

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Speaker 1: are screaming at you to have their hands raised where

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Speaker 1: they can see them. And if my teacher had a gun,

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Speaker 1: how are they supposed to tell that that person is

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Speaker 1: the bad guy or the good guy. And another thing

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Speaker 1: that I find very disturbing is how they're talking about

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Speaker 1: doing it with having the gun locked away, and if

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Speaker 1: it's locked away, you need to have the AMMO separate

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Speaker 1: from it. And if it's locked away, this happened in

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Speaker 1: six minutes. Six minutes is a very short amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Six minutes is not enough time to protect your students

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Speaker 1: and make sure they're safe. Then go to yours guns safe,

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Speaker 1: get out your stuff, and then ask my teacher that

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Speaker 1: has volunteered their time to teach me, to make me

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Speaker 1: into a doctor, into a lawyer, into a politician, into

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Speaker 1: a baker, into anything that I'm going to do in

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Speaker 1: my future, and then asked them to risk their lives for.

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Speaker 1: That's not something they signed up for. There was legislation

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Speaker 1: just signed in Florida that does a variety of things.

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Speaker 1: That annects a three day waiting period to buy a

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Speaker 1: gun at bands so called bump stocks, that raises them

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Speaker 1: inimum age with some exceptions to one. It also does

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Speaker 1: make it easier to train and armed school employees. Um,

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Speaker 1: what's your reaction to this legislation? Did you support it?

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Speaker 1: It's it's a baby step in the right direction, and

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Speaker 1: they're not listening to what we're actually asking for. They're

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Speaker 1: kind of just pacifying what we're asking for and hopes

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Speaker 1: that we're going to stop. And I can tell you

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Speaker 1: right now, we're not going to stop, because this has

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Speaker 1: happened way too many times and I don't want my

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Speaker 1: school to be another statistic in the school shooting list.

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Speaker 1: Don't want that to happen. Ali, what are you actually

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Speaker 1: asking for? We want to ban on the assault weapons

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Speaker 1: because there had There's no way that that should have happened.

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Speaker 1: There's no way that a nineteen year old that has

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Speaker 1: a background like that should have gotten a weapon like that.

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Speaker 1: There's so many levels of what we want for stricter

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Speaker 1: background checks and mental health screenings. They're offering more for

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Speaker 1: arming teachers than they are for regular citizens on the streets,

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Speaker 1: and that's completely ridiculous to me. How do you feel

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Speaker 1: about President Trump's reaction to this? Did you appreciate that

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Speaker 1: he invited students to the White House and do you

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Speaker 1: think there's any hope that he will see things your way?

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Speaker 1: For the President inviting people to the White House to

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Speaker 1: talk to him, I felt that was a big slap

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Speaker 1: in the face because that weekend and a couple of

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Speaker 1: days before that, he was here. He was where we

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Speaker 1: all were. He was here to the point where students

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Speaker 1: and teachers could talk to him, But instead he selected

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Speaker 1: a few and brought them to him and in an

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Speaker 1: environment that only he could control. And I didn't like

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Speaker 1: that because he only selected a few voices of what

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Speaker 1: actually happened. You wrote a poem ally called Dear Mr President.

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Speaker 1: UM one inspired you to write that, um it was

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Speaker 1: the morning when he was in or near Parkland and

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Speaker 1: he was not answering our calls to actually speak with

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Speaker 1: him and have a conversation with him. It was also

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Speaker 1: the morning that he wrote that the FBI failed us

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Speaker 1: because they were busy with the Russian collusion. And that

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Speaker 1: made me even more angry because he was sitting in

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Speaker 1: his hotel room watching TV while all of us were

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Speaker 1: going to vigils and memorials and bearing our friends. That

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Speaker 1: actually is so upsetting. That makes me cry thinking about

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Speaker 1: you all in this cognitive dissonance between what you all

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Speaker 1: were experiencing and what the President was tweeting. But can

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Speaker 1: you read a little of the poem you wrote? Why

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Speaker 1: don't you read actually the whole thing, because it's short

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Speaker 1: enough that you can read the whole thing. And it's

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Speaker 1: so good, So go ahead. My poem is called Dear Mr. President.

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Speaker 1: My friends have died, They are gone from our lives,

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Speaker 1: Yet you sit there twiddling your thumbs. My friends have died,

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Speaker 1: the life gone from their eyes, Yet you sit there

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Speaker 1: talking anything but guns. My friends have died, and we've

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Speaker 1: cried and cried, yet you sit there blaming them mentally ill.

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Speaker 1: My friends have died, our voices pushed aside, yet you

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Speaker 1: sit there. You sit there still. My friends have died

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Speaker 1: and our tears aren't dried, yet you sit there watching

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Speaker 1: us plead. My friends have died. It's an issue nationwide.

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Speaker 1: You sit there still. So how about you lead as

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Speaker 1: a community forever unified? I asked you, sir, how did

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Speaker 1: this happen to us? I invite you to learn to

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Speaker 1: hear the story from inside, because if not now, when

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Speaker 1: will the right time be to discuss that? Really? Uh spread?

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Speaker 1: I think on social media your poem. What kind of

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Speaker 1: reaction did you get to your poem? I got a

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Speaker 1: lot of positive There was a lot of people supporting

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Speaker 1: and asking, tagging along with why hasn't anything been done

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Speaker 1: so far? I also got a lot of negative feedback

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Speaker 1: for people saying I was disrespectful to the president and

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Speaker 1: that I was blaming him for everything that happened, which

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Speaker 1: I didn't tend to do, nor do I want to.

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Speaker 1: I'm just asking him why he didn't do anything. Elie.

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Speaker 1: I understand that you're an editor on your school yearbook

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Speaker 1: and this is the first high school that has to

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Speaker 1: document an event like this, and it's your book. So

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00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: how are you covering this tragedy. It's something that we

401
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: really have to be careful about. But as a group,

402
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of our own little family now because we

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00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: talk about it a lot, and it's kind of a therapy,

404
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: therapeutic kind of thing. Um. Covering it is a little

405
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: hard because you have to relive it every single time

406
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Speaker 1: that you open that spread and look at it and

407
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: read the story and look at the pictures. But something

408
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: that we've all agreed on is that we're going to

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Speaker 1: honor the way that they lived, not the way that

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Speaker 1: they died. And I think it's very important that we

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Speaker 1: document it because this is something that all of us

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Speaker 1: are going to be able to keep for years. I

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00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: know you're going to do have plans to go to

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Speaker 1: the march in Washington with your friends. What do you

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Speaker 1: hope people will take away from this show of unity

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Speaker 1: and the fact that so many people in cities all

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Speaker 1: across the country will be marching and protesting on March.

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Speaker 1: What do you hope the message will be and where

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Speaker 1: do you go from here? I hope that it shows

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Speaker 1: that we're not going to take this line down anymore,

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Speaker 1: that this is something that has brought us all together

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Speaker 1: and we're now questioning our government as to why they've

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Speaker 1: let it go on. And I hope this shows how

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Speaker 1: we're not going to take it, that we're going to

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Speaker 1: change it, and we're not going to shut up and

426
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: be quiet while you guys take money from lobbyists and

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Speaker 1: people that are trying to just control what goes on

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Speaker 1: in the country, the one percent that's going to try

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Speaker 1: to control it, because that's that's unacceptable. I had. I

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Speaker 1: went to a lunch with a couple of other student

431
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: activists from park Land, and they said that one of

432
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: their biggest priorities is to register kids to vote and

433
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: register people to vote, and to get them to be

434
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: motivated as n r A members can be and as

435
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: gun rights advocates can be single issue voters. They want

436
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: to turn a lot of other people on the other

437
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: side into single issue voters. Is that the strategy that

438
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: you'd like to pursue as well. I definitely think that's

439
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: so important because right now, I know our generation and

440
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: the millennials before us haven't really shown out to vote

441
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: most of the time. Our age group has been sort

442
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: of not politically active. And as my APGLV teacher has

443
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: told us time and time again, if you don't participate,

444
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: you don't get to complain. And I think that's very

445
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: strong because we are participating now, We are using our voices,

446
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: and we have the power to change it if we

447
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: don't like it, and I think that's something that a

448
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand. Or, as Gandhi said, be

449
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: the change that you wish to see in the world. Yeah,

450
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: that's painted on our wall in our school. Is anyone

451
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: helping you, guys organize and figure out your strategy. Is

452
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: anyone helping to pay your expenses, for example, to go

453
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: to the march on Washington. We've gotten a lot of

454
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: support from all over, but most of this has been

455
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: student driven, and we're gonna we want to keep it

456
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: student driven because it's our voices that matter. I think

457
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: that's actually very interesting. The girls I met also said

458
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: they don't want this to turn into a corporate event.

459
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: They don't want branding from companies. They want to keep

460
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: it as pure as possible. We want to keep our

461
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: emotions because that's what's gotten us this far. It's the

462
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: students voicing their emotions. Their feelings are experiences. This is

463
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: something that we've lived through. This is not something everybody understands,

464
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: and that's also something that we want to make sure

465
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: that nobody ever has to live through this again. I

466
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: don't think anybody should be happy that they had a

467
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: second chance at life after a gunman came to their school.

468
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: You know, as Brian mentioned, you describe yourself as a happy,

469
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: go lucky person, and I'm just curious as we close here, Ali,

470
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: how this has changed you as a person. Would you

471
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: still describe yourself that way? Or has something changed deep

472
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: inside of you and even your outlook on life and

473
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: even perhaps what you want to do um as as

474
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: you get older and go out in the world. It

475
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: hasn't really changed what I want to do. I've been

476
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: set on becoming a doctor since I was ten um

477
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's something that I can be

478
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: swayed from. But it's definitely changed my point of view

479
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: on who will listen. Because before, when everything else happened,

480
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: I'd see it on the news, I'd send my thoughts

481
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 1: and prayers, and I'd be I'd say to myself, I

482
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: can't do anything. I'm a kid. I can't change adults minds.

483
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: They won't listen to us. They're still not listening. Not

484
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: all of them are listening to us, but we're trying

485
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: our best. A lot of us are. Yeah, um, a

486
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: few are still a little bit stubborn on how kids

487
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: can know so much information. But something I want to

488
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: say about that is that we are students and we

489
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: know that when you don't study, you fail your test.

490
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: This is our test now, despite for change is our

491
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: test now. And trust me when I say this. We've

492
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: been up until four or five o'clock in the morning

493
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: researching our laws, looking up our legislator is seeing how

494
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: much money is donated, where the money is going and

495
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: coming from. Because we want to make sure that we

496
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about, Because we want to make

497
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: sure that we have the answers to the questions that

498
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: people ask us, because that's the most important thing I

499
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: know your mom's with you in the studio, and we

500
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: really wanted to have this conversation be the three of us,

501
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: but I imagine she must be incredibly proud of you

502
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: and the fact that you are stepping into this arena,

503
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: which isn't easy because I'm sure all those negative tweets

504
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: and all those that negativity on social media is something

505
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: you really never get used to. But I imagine your

506
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: parents have been incredibly supportive and are incredibly proud. They're

507
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: the most supportive people ever. Well, I think you're going

508
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: to go on and do great things. I think you're

509
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: going to be a wonderful doctor, but also just a

510
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: wonderful citizen because you're willing to get out there, use

511
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: your voice, and collaborate and unite with people who want

512
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: to see change in the world. And I just wish

513
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: you all the best and so much luck, not only

514
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: in this fight but in your life. And uh and

515
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: we both Brian and I and everyone involved in this

516
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: podcast really appreciate you talking to the us about this today.

517
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: I know it's not easy, but you know, it's incredibly

518
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: moving to hear you talk about what happened and where

519
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: you go from here. So thank you, Ali, thank you

520
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: for having me. Wow, that was a very intense conversation,

521
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: and for me a very I don't know, Brian, I

522
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: know you said you thought I was moved. I was

523
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: very moved. And I don't know if you can see

524
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: behind my glasses, but I was actually tearing up with

525
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: both sadness for Ali and her classmates in the community,

526
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: but also tearing up because I was so inspired by

527
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: the work she's doing and how she has transformed into

528
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: this incredible activist. Yeah, she's with such humility too, you know.

529
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: I was also struck by her when she said, we're

530
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: students and we know that you have to study or

531
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: you fail the test, and this is our test. I

532
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: don't know. That was so profound to me. It was,

533
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: and I feel terrible that she's having to go through this,

534
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: that she can't just focus on being a kid in

535
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: her senior year of high school and thinking about her

536
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: college roommate. But she's trying to turn this tragedy into

537
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,719
Speaker 1: a teaching moment for the country, and she is nothing

538
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: if not incredibly inspiring, a great example, you know. But

539
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: I think it's also a few days after this happened,

540
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: my daughter, who's in college, said I'm so scared, Mom,

541
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: there's going to be a shooting here. So you can

542
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: imagine kind of the anxiety level for kids everywhere when

543
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: something like this happens. And that's why I think something's

544
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: got to be done. So speaking of that, UM, next

545
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: up is there a conversation with Shannon Wats, the founder

546
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: of Mom's Demand Action, and we're going to talk about

547
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: the policy response to shootings like Parkland, what should happen

548
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: not just in Washington but all over the country. Shannon

549
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: Watts High, Shannon, I'm so happy to have you on

550
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: our podcast. Thanks so much for taking the time. Thank you, Katie,

551
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 1: thank you for having me on. Why don't you remind

552
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: people who may not know how Mom's Demand Action began,

553
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: why it began, and where it began. I was watching

554
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: the news December two thousand twelve and saw this just

555
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: tragic news that there had been a school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut,

556
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: and I remember I was folding laundry at the time

557
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: and just thought, dear God, don't let this be as

558
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: bad as it seems. And you know, obviously it was.

559
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: It was a million times worse than anyone could ever

560
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: have fathom, ever fathom, and as a mom of five.

561
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: That is how this issue impacted me. You know, when

562
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: twenty six year olds and six educators can be shot

563
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: and killed in the sanctity of an elementary school. UM,

564
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: I just felt that it was finally time for me

565
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: to get off the sidelines, specifically as a mom, and

566
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 1: so I started a Facebook page and I had seventy

567
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: five friends at the time, seventy five Facebook friends. I

568
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: was no social media phenomen but what happened through the

569
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: power of social media was that suddenly I was inundated

570
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: by strangers across the country who wanted to start a chapter.

571
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: I hadn't even realized I had started an organization, and

572
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: suddenly people wanted to start chapters of Mom's Demand Action

573
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: where they lived, and we were often running. And here

574
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: we are five years later. UM we're one of the

575
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: largest grassroots movements in the country. We have a chapter

576
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: in every state, We have millions of supporters, and since Parkland,

577
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: you know, we have hundreds of thousands of active volunteers.

578
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: What was the action you were demanding at the outset?

579
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know much about organizing. UM. I

580
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: was not politically active, and I really thought, okay, we

581
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: needed to have a big march, not realizing that there

582
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: had been this million mom march after Columbine in two

583
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: thousand and very quickly, a lot of wonderful policy experts

584
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: and members of Congress and even state lawmakers came to

585
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: me and said, you know, what we really need is

586
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: for women in particular to organize around this issue, to

587
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: become a grassroots army that can kill bad bills and

588
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: support good bills and change corporate policy. Um and and

589
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: that's exactly what we've done. Let's talk about that because

590
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 1: I think, you know, sometimes these grassroots movements take root

591
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: and take hold, and yet people don't hear about everything

592
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: that's been accomplished. And by the way, I think this

593
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: is such a great example of the power of social

594
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: media for for good. You were able to create something

595
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: just through your virtual relationships with all these like minded people.

596
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: So Shannon, five years later, tell us about some of

597
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: the things that you've been able to do. So we

598
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: had a call from the White House just a few

599
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: weeks after we started, and they asked us to support

600
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: what was called the Mansion to Me Bill, and that

601
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: is a bill that would have closed a private sale

602
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: loophole at a federal level in this country. And so

603
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: that's what we focused on the first few months. Um,

604
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: we all know that in April that bill failed by

605
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: just a handful of votes in the Senate, and I

606
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: really thought, Okay, well, we've we've done everything we could. Hear,

607
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's time to pack up our our

608
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 1: things and go home. Can you explain what the private

609
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: sale loophole actually is? Absolutely so in this country, if

610
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, for example,

611
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: at Walmart or any dealer who has a license to

612
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: sell guns, you do have to have a background check.

613
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: You do not have to have a background check if

614
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: it is a private sale, and those are typically at

615
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: gun shows or online or even in some states garage

616
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: sales um and millions of guns are sold every year

617
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: that way. And that is how dangerous people get ahold

618
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: of guns very easily, domestic abusers and felons. I read

619
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: I read a statistic just yesterday, Shannon that four two

620
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: percent of US gun owners acquired their most recent firearm

621
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: without a background check. So this is happening all the time. Well,

622
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: when the when the Brady Bill was passed in the nineties,

623
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: no one ever imagined there would be this online market

624
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: for guns. I know, it's crazy, isn't it. I mean,

625
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: so many people and there's absolutely no regulation at all. Right,

626
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: so we failed just by a handful of votes in

627
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: the Senate um in April two thirteen, and and again,

628
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know what would happen to Mom's

629
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: demand action at that point. What I didn't realize is

630
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 1: that when you're working with so many type of women,

631
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: there's really no going backward. There's going forward exactly. So

632
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, really our volunteers just intuitively pivoted to state

633
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: houses and boardrooms, where we immediately began supporting governors who

634
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: would pass this kind of legislation. In the wake of

635
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: Sandy Hook. We did it in Delaware and Maryland and

636
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: other states. Actually, we've closed that private sale loople in

637
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: eight states and Sandy Hook, bringing the total of states

638
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: that have done that to nineteen. And we also have

639
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: to kill bad bills in states. We have about a

640
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: ninety three percent track record of killing n r A

641
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: supported bad bills like guns and schools or guns on

642
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: college campuses, permitless carry, and we have to show up

643
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: to do that in state houses year after year. And

644
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: we also pivoted to corporations, and we have made significant

645
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: changes in corporate policy. And since we started, everything from

646
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 1: Starbucks to Chipotle to Target, and then since Parkland, nearly

647
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: twenty companies have changed their gun policies. We'll talk about

648
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 1: those companies, or you don't have to talk about all twenty,

649
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: but a few of them and why it was so significant.

650
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: You know, when lawmakers don't act to protect their constituents,

651
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: it really is on companies to protect their customers. And

652
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: it's also a really important lever that women can pull.

653
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: We make about eight percent of the spending decisions for

654
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: our families, and so what we initially started doing was

655
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: asking companies to prohibit something called open carry, which is

656
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: legal and forty five states. Um. It used to be

657
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: that you could bring your our fifteen into Starbucks when

658
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: you've got a latte in those states. You can't anymore

659
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: because of our work. But what we saw after Parkland

660
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: that was so interesting was that companies were stopping their

661
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: discount programs with the n r A. And also we

662
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: have seen companies raise the age of which you can

663
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: buy a long gun. So many states allow you to

664
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: buy a semi automatic rifle when you're eighteen years old.

665
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: Even though you can't buy a handgun until you're twenty one.

666
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: You can't drink, can't even rent a car, but you

667
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: can buy an a R fifteen. And we've seen several

668
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: companies l being Dicks Orvis Company and others change that

669
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: age to twenty one and again acting when lawmakers won't so.

670
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: In Florida, in the wake of Parkland, legislation was passed

671
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: and signed that did raise the age with some loopholes,

672
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: to twenty one for buying guns, but not for semi

673
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: automatic weapons. Right, can you explain to a sham what

674
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: happened in Florida and whether you supported that legislation. We

675
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: you overwhelmingly that was really positive legislation. So it puts

676
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: in place a red flag law. These laws are very important.

677
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: We actually passed one in California after the shooting at

678
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: UCSB and it allows families and police to petition a

679
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: judge to get a temporary restraining order to remove the

680
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: firearms of someone who seems to be a danger to

681
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: themselves or others. It also raises the age that someone

682
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: can buy a long gun from eighteen to twenty one,

683
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: and a long gun is anything from a hunting rifle

684
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: to a semi automatic rifle, and it puts in place

685
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: just some safety mechanisms that we know are proven to

686
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 1: to prevent gun violence. It does allow districts to arm

687
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: administrative staff if they choose to do so. And because

688
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: we have a grassroots army on the ground, we can

689
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: now go district by district and and convince them not to.

690
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: Why why is that so important? Because you know, I

691
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: think people do hear this and some people just go

692
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: crazy with the idea of teachers being armed. On the

693
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: other hands, some people think, well, maybe it does make

694
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: sense to have a stronger security or show of security

695
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: and somebody who is trained to be standing guard at

696
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: some of these schools. So can you help us make

697
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: sense of that? Shannon? Absolutely. So. You know, first of all,

698
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: we're not opposed to armed guards at schools who do

699
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: have training and background checks. However, we have seen time

700
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: and time again everything from colum Mined to the Pulse

701
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: nightclub to Parkland, that even when there is an armed

702
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: deputy on site, it doesn't necessarily stop someone who is

703
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: perfectly willing to give up their lives as they commit

704
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: mass homicide and often have an arsenal bulk Ammo even

705
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: tactical gear, you know, which is no match necessarily for

706
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: a deputy. But also I want to point out that

707
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: even the most highly trained police have about eight rate

708
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: of accuracy when shooting a moving target. So the idea

709
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: that we are going to arm these volunteer teachers and

710
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: turn them into sharpshooters is absurd. You know that the

711
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: answer is not arming teachers, it's disarming dangerous people. Well,

712
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: you know that's the n r A chestnut. The best

713
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,959
Speaker 1: way to deal with a bad guy with a gun

714
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: is a good guy with a gun. And I think

715
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: the research and the evidence really disproves that time and

716
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: time again does and also, look, this shooter in Parkland

717
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: was essentially a good guy in the n r a's

718
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: mind until he shot and killed seventeen people. This was

719
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old who had legally purchased an Arsenal

720
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: bulk Ammo tactical gear. He had never been convicted of

721
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: a crime, he had never been adjudicated mentally ill. That

722
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: is the definition of an nar A good guy, you know, Shannon,

723
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 1: A lot of people knew this perpetrator in Parkland seemed

724
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: to be bad news. Right. People had seen him practicing

725
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: with guns in his backyard. I don't know all the details,

726
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: but had observed disturbing behavior on Instagram and all sorts

727
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: of places that would have raised a red flag, reported

728
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: him to the FBI, right exactly. So, I guess the

729
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: question is, with these red flag laws, how do you

730
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 1: enforce them and how do you ensure that people if

731
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: they see something, they say something. It's really important that

732
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: that last point you made about when you see something,

733
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: say something. I mean, we have this law, for example

734
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: in California now because when the UCSB shooting happened, uh,

735
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: the parents had gone to the police many times and said, look,

736
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: our son is armed and dangerous, and they said, there's

737
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: nothing we can do. He's never been convicted of a crime,

738
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: he's never been adjudicated mentally ill. We cannot remove his weapons.

739
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: And so now our job in California is to educate

740
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: people about this law and to let them know they

741
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: can take advantage of it. Right that police and families

742
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: can petition a judge and get a temporary restraining order

743
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: to move remove someone's guns if they seem to be

744
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: a danger to themselves or others. And if Florida had

745
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: had that law, it would have made it a lot

746
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: easier to intervene and to really understand what this teenager

747
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: was planning. But I guess the n r A goes

748
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: nuts over that. The opposes that that people who are

749
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: law abiding said is and suddenly they will figuratively be

750
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: in the crosshairs of the authorities and their guns will

751
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: be taken away. Is that right the n r A. Look,

752
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for five years. The n RA

753
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: opposes every single law that is proven by data to

754
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,959
Speaker 1: slow gun violence. And it isn't necessarily because they really

755
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,959
Speaker 1: disagree with the law. It's because they believe any law,

756
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: no matter how small, no matter how incremental, is a

757
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: slippery slope to confiscation, or at least that's what they

758
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: tell their members. Well, let's talk about the power of

759
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: the n r A and where it actually comes from,

760
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: because I think there are a lot of misunderstandings that

761
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, millions of law abiding members the n r

762
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: A chip in small dollars and that's where they get

763
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: their political punch. But really the story is different from that.

764
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: That's right. The n RA could have zero members and

765
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: still be a political powerhouse because they receive a majority

766
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: of the million dollar annual budget they have from gun manufacturers. UM,

767
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: this idea that they have five million members has been

768
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: proven to be a myth by reporters. So many of

769
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: those people are dead or they just joined for the discounts. UM.

770
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: I can assure you that when we show up at

771
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: state houses, it's typically dozens or hundreds of moms to

772
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: be an action volunteers versus one nr A lobbyist, for

773
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: example in Florida. UM. This this is not about the

774
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: n r A being powerful because they have millions of

775
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: motivated members. It's because they have millions of dollars from

776
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: gun manufacturers. One thing we should point out is n

777
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: r A members actually believe in sensible gun laws and

778
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: believe that they should change. Is that right, Channon, that's right.

779
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: So a Republican poster found that sev of all n

780
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: r A members actually support common sense gun laws like

781
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: closing the background check loophole. And also it's important to

782
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,919
Speaker 1: keep in mind that only about one out of every

783
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: nine or ten gun owners actually even belongs to the

784
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: n r A, and when you pull gun owners more generally,

785
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: about eight of them support stronger gun laws. So this

786
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: is really about a radicalized n r A leadership. It

787
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: is not in any way into not only with America,

788
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: but even its own members. In fact, when we did

789
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: that film Under the Gun and you were featured in it,

790
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: shann and so many people who are gun owners said,

791
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this movie, because you

792
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: are expressing the views of most gun owners in this

793
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: country that have been silenced or who really don't have

794
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: a voice in this entire debate. But tell us more

795
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: about the unholy alliance between gun manufacturers and the n

796
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: r A and how that works and why that's so important,

797
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: and understanding how the n r A operates. So the

798
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: n r A is basically just a lobbying organization that

799
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: solely exists at this point to protect the profits of

800
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: gun manufacturers. You know, back in the seventies, it used

801
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: to be hunting and sportsmen's organization focused on gun safety

802
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: and training. That all went out the window about two

803
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: or three decades ago when what happened was gun manufacturers

804
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: started selling more guns to fewer people. And that's an

805
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,479
Speaker 1: aging out demographic, typically a white man over the age

806
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: of fifty or sixty, and so when they realized that

807
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: they needed to open up the market for guns, sales

808
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: is when all of their sort of moderate beliefs, and

809
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: in fact, in Wayne la Pierre said he didn't support

810
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: guns in schools and and he supported a background check

811
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: over every gun sale, those moderate beliefs have gone out

812
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: the window. They became much more radicalized because in order

813
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: to inculcate the next generation of gun buyers, they have

814
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: to force guns into K through twelve schools, They have

815
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: to put guns on college campuses, they have to sell

816
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: guns to women. And so what we've seen is that

817
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: because they no longer have a boogeyman in the White

818
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: House to say this person is going to take your

819
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: guns away, they have to make us afraid of one another.

820
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: And we're seeing that more and more. If you have

821
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: the misfortune of watching n R A t V, you

822
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: will see that their whole purposes to foment this culture war.

823
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: And and isn't it also giving sort of fancier souped

824
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: up guns with more bells and whistles to get people

825
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: who currently already own guns to buy more guns. Well,

826
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: the terry is convinced this subset of people it sells

827
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: guns too, that they need an arsenal, they need, you know,

828
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: ten A R fifteens. They need six glocks and and

829
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: that's actually the biggest problem for the organization is that

830
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: they need to open up that market of gun sales.

831
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: In fact, since Donald Trump was elected president, gun sales

832
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 1: have gone down ten or over a hundred million dollars.

833
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: And that's why, for example, we see the n r

834
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,919
Speaker 1: A trying to deregulate silencers because they can't convince someone

835
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: to buy another gun necessarily, but they can convince them

836
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: to buy accessories. So let's talk about whether anything is

837
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: actually going to change at the federal level in the

838
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: wake of the Parkland shooting. Is their hope for legislation

839
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,959
Speaker 1: that could make a meaningful difference? Uh? You know, look,

840
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: I I understand that everybody would like this cathartic moment

841
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: in Congress. I would too, But the wins that we're

842
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: looking for may come in the state houses, they may

843
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: become in corporate boardrooms until we get a Congress and

844
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: the president in place who will do the right thing. Um.

845
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: You know, the President came out after saying one thing

846
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: about what he promised at a federal level, he's now

847
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: backtracking and just sort of putting forth a plan that

848
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: was clearly written by the n r A, and these

849
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: incremental changes that he's talking about um really do nothing

850
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: to solve our gun violence problem. That is why our

851
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: organization is so incredibly focused on the midterm elections. If

852
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: we really want to send a strong signal to to

853
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: our members of Congress and to our state houses, we

854
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: have to use our votes in the November elections, and

855
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: we have to be educated about where our candidates and

856
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: lawmakers stand on this issue, and we have to vote accordingly.

857
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: We've seen this movie before, terrible school shooting, you know,

858
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: the nation grieving and then forgetting, and everyone seems to

859
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: think Shannon for whatever reason. Actually, I'd like to ask

860
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: you if you think this why Parkland is different? These

861
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: kids are different. That's not saying anything about the beautiful

862
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: lives that were lost in tragedies like this in this country.

863
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: But for some reason, in this time, with these voices,

864
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: something's going to change. Do you agree with that? I do,

865
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: and I think it already has changed. I mean, we

866
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: have nearly two hundred thousand new volunteers and millions of

867
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: new members who have joined us just since Parkland. We

868
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: actually started something called Students Demand Action, and nearly twenty

869
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 1: thou people have joined that we are seeing a change

870
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: like we've never seen before. And I think that's for

871
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 1: a few reasons. One is that we saw not only

872
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: the survivors, but also the entire community of Parkland come

873
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: together after the shooting with one clear call to action

874
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: within hours, and that call to action was that we

875
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: needed stronger gun loss. And look, that may be because

876
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: of all the work that we've been doing for five

877
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: years to educate people about the tissue. It may be

878
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: because people are so tired of mass shootings in this country.

879
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: I mean, the largest mass shooting in the history of

880
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: our country in Las Vegas, happened on President Trump's watch. Um.

881
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: But I also think that we are starting to see

882
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: this generation lockdown become adults. So for the last eighteen

883
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: years or so, we've been telling these kids, look, active

884
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: shooter drills are no different than fire drills or earthquake drills.

885
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 1: These are acts of nature, essentially, and they're becoming adults

886
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: like my seventeen year old son, and they're realizing they've

887
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: been sold a bill of goods. These are acts of cowardice.

888
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: This is the complete inaction of our lawmakers to protect them.

889
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: And I think they're really angry. And the the argument

890
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: or the trope used by the n r A and

891
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans in Washington is this is really

892
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: a mental health issue. This isn't a gun issue. What's

893
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: your reaction to that? There are a few things to

894
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: say about that. And that is definitely a straw man

895
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: that you see Republicans break out every time there's a

896
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: mass shooting or her fixed shooting tragedy in this country.

897
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: It's so infuriating, isn't it. It is an And here's why.

898
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: First of all, it stigmatizes mental illness. You know, we

899
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: we're hearing nr A pundits and and Donald Trump say

900
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: things like they were sickos. Look, people who are mentally

901
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: ill are much more likely to be a victim a

902
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: violent crime than they are to be the perpetrator. But also,

903
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: if the issue of the mentally ill having guns was

904
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: so important to this president UH and this Congress, they

905
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't have made the very first action they took to

906
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: roll back an Obama rule that prevented UH social Security

907
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: recipients who were too mentally ill to handle their benefits

908
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 1: from buying guns. That was the first thing Donald Trump

909
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: did was to roll back that role so none of

910
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: it rings true. You know, we've seen them point fingers

911
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: that everything from mental illness to video games to even

912
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: single parents since Parkland, all of that is to distract

913
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: us from what is the truth, and it's easy access

914
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: to guns. Well, and the reality is in other countries,

915
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: there's mental illness, there are violent video games and their

916
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: single parents, and no other country has the mass shooting

917
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: problem that we have in this country. That is exactly right.

918
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: We have the same rates of mental illnesses other high

919
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: income countries. We watched the same movies, we play the

920
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: same video games. What's different is that we have easy

921
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: access to guns. We have three million guns and very

922
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: few gun laws. Let's talk about sort of what really works, Shannon, though.

923
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: You know, one step is obviously closing the gun show

924
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: loophole and private sellers and online with background checks. But

925
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: that is just the tip of the iceberg, isn't it.

926
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: Because even with among licensed gun dealers, the records are

927
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: not really updated or up to speed. There is an

928
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: evidence when somebody with a record of domestic violence and

929
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: mental health issues, are the proper red flags raised. I mean,

930
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: what are some of the other areas that need attention

931
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: from people who want to do something about this. Katie.

932
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: One thing I always recommend to people is that they

933
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: watched Under the Gun, because I think you all did

934
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: an amazing job of digging into the complexities of this

935
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: issue and what needs to be fixed. But we you

936
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 1: know that closing the background check loophole would save a

937
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 1: lot of lives. If you look at the nineteen states

938
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: that have done that, you see gun violence cut almost

939
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: in half across the board. So that is the first

940
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: thing that we need to do. But a lot of

941
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: people don't realize that. Also, Um, there are glaring loopholes.

942
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: For example, in domestic violence laws, they don't include stalkers

943
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: or dating partners as prohibited purchasers. So we have to

944
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: go into each state and change those laws to give

945
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 1: them teeth. We've done it now in twenty five states,

946
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: red and blue across the country. UM. We also, as

947
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: you mentioned, go into states and pass laws that bolster

948
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: the NIXT system, the system that we put information records into.

949
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: Two show who is a prohibited buyer and Y. And

950
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, another really interesting thing that people don't realize

951
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: is that if you do go to a license dealer

952
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: and try to buy a gun and you're flagged as

953
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: a prohibited purchaser that isn't necessarily reported to the police,

954
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: and that's a huge red flag. So we work to

955
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: change those laws as well. But don't forget that. All

956
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: while we're doing these things, the n r A is

957
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: working really hard to pass laws that endanger us. So

958
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 1: in thirteen states, for example, the n r A has

959
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: passed permitless carry laws, which means you don't have to

960
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: have a background check or training or even a permit

961
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: to carry a gun to conceal carry a gun in

962
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 1: that state. So while we're trying to pass these good laws,

963
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: we also have to stop these bad laws. And there's

964
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: a recent law about interest state. If you have a

965
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: concealed carry permit in one state, you can use it

966
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 1: when you go to another state that I know Cyrus

967
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: Fancy is fighting against what happened with that. So this

968
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: bill is actually winding its way through Congress still. And

969
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: after every mass shooting, including Parkland, you hear the n

970
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: r A and the President suggests that somehow something called

971
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: concealed carry reciprocity would would help our gun violent situation.

972
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 1: The n Y has been trying to pass concealed carrey

973
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 1: reciprocity for nearly twenty years. They have failed every time

974
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: because doesn't mean exactly explain it to our listeners, Shannon's

975
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: So basically what would happen is the weakest law of

976
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 1: the land to get a gun permit would become the

977
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: law of the land everywhere. So, for example, to get

978
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: a gun permit in Alabama, you do not have to

979
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: be eighteen, you can have a background of of convicted violence,

980
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: you can have d u wise, you don't have to

981
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: have live fire training. It's one of the weakest permit

982
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: requirements in the country. Under concealed caree reciprocity, you could

983
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: then take that permit and your gun into any state

984
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: of the country, no matter how strong their gun laws are.

985
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: So it's really uh behind the scenes way to upend

986
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: state laws. Can you just before we go, because we're

987
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: going to have to wrap Unfortunately, Shannon, I could talk

988
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: to you about this all day. Urban violence is such

989
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: a problem. So many black kids are killed by gun

990
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: violence on the streets of cities across the country every day,

991
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: and there is this feeling that when white children are

992
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: white victims are in the news, it gets so much

993
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: more attention. And this daily drip drip drip of wrath,

994
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: of of shootings that you see on the streets of

995
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: these cities. What can be done about urban violence and

996
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: all the kids of color that are killed regularly in

997
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: cities like Chicago. Look, this is a very big and

998
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: complicated issue, and there are a lot of different ways

999
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: that we can address gun violence. You know, our organization

1000
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: is focused mainly on changing gun laws. And when we

1001
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: look at laws like closing the background check loophole, we

1002
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: know that that significantly reduces gun trafficking, for example. And

1003
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: when you talk about Chicago, the majority of the crime

1004
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: guns that are in Chicago actually come from Indiana, which

1005
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: is just twenty minutes away from Chicago. You can go

1006
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: across the border, fill up your truck with semi automatic

1007
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: rifles and handguns with no background check, drive back twenty

1008
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: minutes and sell them um And so we do know

1009
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: that bad Apple gun dealers, by the way, so dozen

1010
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: of guns to somebody who then sells them on the

1011
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: streets of Chicago, and there's nothing prohibiting them from doing so.

1012
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: There's actually a bill that just passed the Illinois legislature.

1013
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: We're hoping the governor will sign it into law. Um,

1014
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: we're putting pressure on him to do so, and it

1015
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: would actually address that issue. It would require those gun

1016
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: dealers themselves to have background checks. Well, obviously you're making

1017
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: some strides and you're going to be part of this march.

1018
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: That's right. I will be in Washington, d C. Supporting

1019
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: the students and just hoping that this momentum will take

1020
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: us into the midterms. Well, Shannon Watts, thank you so

1021
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: much for talking with us. As always, Shannon, and I'd

1022
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: like to personally say congratulations to your army of moms

1023
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: and allies who are out there fighting the good fight,

1024
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: donating their time and energy and dollars two really ushering

1025
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: in some kind of change in this country. Thank you

1026
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you as always to our lovely producer,

1027
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: who we really do like so much. We don't just

1028
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: say it, no, we we do mean it. And Gianna

1029
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: I really enjoy working with you and appreciate everything you do.

1030
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer is our producer. I also really like our

1031
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: audio engineer who's a super nice guy, Jared O'Connell, and

1032
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: our assistant producer Nora Richie Nor I like you too.

1033
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to leave you out special thanks This

1034
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: week to Pony Sound Studios in Austin, Texas, where we're

1035
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: now sitting. We should record a country western song in

1036
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: this room, Katie, here's a wagon wheel on the wall.

1037
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: It's a very very interesting and different from our New

1038
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: York studio. Thanks to Loose Fleming in New York and

1039
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: kg and you Community Radio in Boulder, Colorado. They all

1040
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,439
Speaker 1: helped us to get this show recorded on the road.

1041
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: It takes a village, as Katie would say, Thanks to everybody.

1042
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: Also to Beth Dems, my assistant, Emily Beena over at

1043
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk Media, and Alison Bresnik, who gets the word

1044
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: out so well about our podcast. On social media, Mark

1045
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: Phillips wrote our theme music. You can find me on

1046
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: social media. I am an animal on Insta stories. You

1047
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: should check those out. You see a whole different side

1048
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: of me that maybe you don't want to see, but anyway,

1049
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: check me out at Katie Kuric and Brian of course

1050
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: is on Twitter at Goldsmith b And here's one more

1051
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: reminder to please call in with your thoughts and feedback.

1052
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: We really do appreciate them. That number we got all

1053
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: sexy there in your voice for a second, What was

1054
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: that about? Thoughts and feedback that may us be you

1055
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: or maybe I need to blow my nose. That number

1056
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: again is four four six three seven, or you can

1057
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: email us at comments at current podcast dot com. And

1058
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: we really do love hearing from you. It actually makes

1059
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: me feel closer to all of you and makes me

1060
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: feel like you're enjoying the podcast, which motivates and inspires

1061
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: us to keep doing it. So thank you. We're off

1062
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: next week, but after that we won't have another break

1063
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: until the very end of May, so don't panic, dear listeners,

1064
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: will be back very soon. H