WEBVTT - Cheap Trick's Rick Nielsen 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:25.356 Pushkin. Before we get started, let's talk about Pushnick. Pushnick 0:00:25.476 --> 0:00:30.236 is a subscription program available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Subscriptions 0:00:30.756 --> 0:00:33.836 members will get access to bonus content like extended versions 0:00:33.836 --> 0:00:37.156 of Our Beastie Boys and Brian Eno episodes. You'll also 0:00:37.196 --> 0:00:40.716 get ad free listening to many of your favorite podcasts 0:00:40.756 --> 0:00:45.276 like Pubbishnist, History, Cautionary Tales, The Happiness Lab, and Ours 0:00:45.276 --> 0:00:48.276 Broken Record. You can try it for free for seven days. 0:00:48.716 --> 0:01:03.356 Sign up for Pushnick and Apple podcast subscriptions. Rick Nielsen 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:06.636 is best known as Cheap Tricks, lead guitarist and mains songwriter, 0:01:07.116 --> 0:01:09.836 the band that helped popularize power pop in the late 0:01:09.916 --> 0:01:13.396 seventies with songs like Surrender and I Want You To 0:01:13.436 --> 0:01:16.876 Want Me, precursors to the pop punk explosion in the 0:01:16.956 --> 0:01:29.316 nineties with bands like Green Day in Blink one eighty two. 0:01:30.956 --> 0:01:34.836 In June, Cheap Trick released their twentieth studio album, In 0:01:34.836 --> 0:01:38.396 Another World. It's chock full of Rick Nielsen's monster riffs 0:01:38.556 --> 0:01:42.156 that recall their glory days in the nineteen seventies. On 0:01:42.196 --> 0:01:45.356 today's episode, Bruce held Them talks to Rick Nielsen about 0:01:45.396 --> 0:01:48.756 Cheap Trick's origin story while Nielsen fiddles around on electric 0:01:48.796 --> 0:01:52.956 guitar and samples riffs from the new album. Nielsen also 0:01:52.956 --> 0:01:55.156 talks about how he was hired to bring a hard 0:01:55.236 --> 0:01:59.156 rock sound to John Lennon's final album with Yoko, Double Fantasy, 0:01:59.836 --> 0:02:02.196 and what it was like working with the Beatles legendary 0:02:02.236 --> 0:02:11.276 producer George Martin. This is broken record liner notes for 0:02:11.316 --> 0:02:19.116 the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce had them 0:02:19.116 --> 0:02:23.236 with cheap tricks. Rick Nielsen, we're gonna talk about In 0:02:23.236 --> 0:02:25.836 Another World, which is your new album. It sounds like 0:02:25.956 --> 0:02:28.796 you guys were having fun making this album. Well, I 0:02:28.796 --> 0:02:32.116 think we were. I think we do. Just sounds really 0:02:32.196 --> 0:02:35.956 kind of joyful and fun. That's kind of the idea. 0:02:35.996 --> 0:02:39.116 I mean, we make records for ourselves. I mean, we 0:02:39.356 --> 0:02:43.836 don't have a manager that hangs over us or a producer. 0:02:43.916 --> 0:02:47.196 That's here's what we're gonna do. We got this going 0:02:47.276 --> 0:02:50.436 in the record label of BMG's but not Fabulous. I 0:02:50.436 --> 0:02:54.956 mean they're so fabulous that that they don't bother us. 0:02:55.116 --> 0:02:59.596 And it's like it's the perfect record label, the first 0:02:59.596 --> 0:03:01.996 one we've ever had like that. It's like, it's pretty cool. 0:03:02.636 --> 0:03:04.956 So what's writing like? Are you on a bus? Are 0:03:04.956 --> 0:03:07.076 you in a hotel and you just pick up your guitar. 0:03:08.196 --> 0:03:09.756 It's kind of how we all did it. I mean 0:03:09.796 --> 0:03:11.876 I used to write one hundred percent of the stuff. 0:03:14.396 --> 0:03:18.156 We just got. Somebody's got an idea and that sounds 0:03:18.276 --> 0:03:22.876 If it sounds interesting, then we'll go for it. Now, 0:03:22.916 --> 0:03:24.876 you just picked up a guitar, which is not a 0:03:24.916 --> 0:03:27.116 surprise because you own how many guitars? Now, do you 0:03:27.196 --> 0:03:33.276 own about five hundred? Well, I've owned about two thousand instruments. 0:03:35.596 --> 0:03:39.556 But I've been around for a long time and I've traded. 0:03:39.596 --> 0:03:42.836 I've traded stuff, I had stuff, I broke stuff, I 0:03:42.876 --> 0:03:46.196 gave stuff away. I mean, I've got a guitar, a 0:03:46.316 --> 0:03:50.956 real guitar, in almost every hard rocket around the world. Yeah. 0:03:51.956 --> 0:03:54.356 So while you've got the guitar in your hand, tell 0:03:54.396 --> 0:03:57.836 me about writing the first single, which is Summer looks 0:03:57.836 --> 0:04:01.716 good on you. I think we had a title first 0:04:02.396 --> 0:04:04.916 seemed like a good idea. Listen, it could be a 0:04:04.996 --> 0:04:14.676 summer song, you know. So yeah, it comes to summer. Yeah, 0:04:14.756 --> 0:04:18.556 that's that's that one. That's it. Yeah, because we had 0:04:18.596 --> 0:04:20.516 two of that came out about the same time that 0:04:20.556 --> 0:05:18.436 we were doing Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Uh. You know, 0:05:18.436 --> 0:05:20.756 it's like how we wrote the Parson, we did the 0:05:21.516 --> 0:05:27.516 deeper the B flat sounds kind of weird in there, 0:05:27.556 --> 0:05:30.956 but yeah, that was some stuff that we like. When 0:05:30.956 --> 0:05:40.996 we did a tax Men and Stiff competition, the same thing. 0:05:47.956 --> 0:05:50.396 I mean, I just kind of like that. That sounds 0:05:50.436 --> 0:05:53.596 yeah thing, and it sounds different every time. And we 0:05:53.716 --> 0:05:55.636 use chords that a lot of people don't use. You know, 0:05:55.676 --> 0:05:59.276 it's like over and over again. Yeah, well and this 0:05:59.516 --> 0:06:02.596 the song is in E, right, isn't it. Uh well, 0:06:02.636 --> 0:06:29.396 the chorus is in D and the versus A. Yeah. 0:06:29.596 --> 0:06:32.756 There you go listening to that and I hadn't really 0:06:32.796 --> 0:06:35.476 thought of it before. It sounds a lot like Peter 0:06:35.596 --> 0:06:41.876 Townsend to me. We hit the chords equally hard. Was 0:06:41.876 --> 0:06:43.756 he an influence on you? Oh yeah? I mean it 0:06:43.836 --> 0:06:47.196 Loves Who was the best live band ever. You know, 0:06:47.476 --> 0:06:50.596 I played with them, opened for them when when Keith 0:06:50.716 --> 0:06:54.076 Moon was still wrong and what was that like? It 0:06:54.116 --> 0:06:55.916 was great? You know, It's like because we'd read a 0:06:55.956 --> 0:06:59.516 bomb and actually we knew their songs. We opened for 0:06:59.596 --> 0:07:03.476 him at Majestic Hills in Late Geneva, Wisconsin in nineteen 0:07:03.636 --> 0:07:08.316 sixty eight, two weeks after we'd opened for Frank Zapp 0:07:08.356 --> 0:07:12.996 and the mothers and Wow, yeah, you know you were 0:07:13.036 --> 0:07:17.316 the band when you came out that everybody liked. The 0:07:17.396 --> 0:07:21.356 heavy metal guys liked you, the new wave guys liked you. 0:07:22.116 --> 0:07:25.556 What's not to like? Well, what's not? But you just 0:07:25.596 --> 0:07:28.876 appealed to such a wide group of like everybody could 0:07:28.916 --> 0:07:31.196 agree on Cheap Trick, even though if they disagreed about 0:07:31.236 --> 0:07:34.476 everything else. It seems like that. I mean I heard 0:07:34.476 --> 0:07:37.116 that from a lot of people. I mean, you know, 0:07:37.236 --> 0:07:41.236 like the Ramons like cheap Trick, you know, And Joey 0:07:41.276 --> 0:07:44.036 did a number of our songs. He the Southern Girls. 0:07:44.156 --> 0:07:47.236 He came to see us, and he's like, you know, 0:07:47.556 --> 0:07:50.476 he's from New York. We're from the Chicago area. We never, 0:07:50.836 --> 0:07:53.316 you know, really saw them unless we went to see him, 0:07:53.316 --> 0:07:55.556 and we didn't know him personally. So it's like when 0:07:55.556 --> 0:07:57.596 we started meeting these guys, it was kind of fun. 0:07:58.116 --> 0:08:00.316 And the New York Dolls they came to see us 0:08:00.316 --> 0:08:04.996 play I want to go way back, Okay. Because you 0:08:05.076 --> 0:08:08.596 grew up in a musical family, yes, I did tell 0:08:08.596 --> 0:08:11.596 me about that. My father was an opera sayeron and 0:08:11.676 --> 0:08:14.116 he was also a religious kind of saying. He's saying 0:08:14.116 --> 0:08:18.476 with Billy Graham He had a radio show in Chicago 0:08:18.596 --> 0:08:22.076 on w MBI, which is the Moody Bible Institute, where 0:08:22.516 --> 0:08:26.916 where both my grandfathers graduated from. They were both ministers. 0:08:27.236 --> 0:08:29.796 So I was around music. And my dad it was 0:08:29.836 --> 0:08:33.436 a choir director in World War Two. He's a captain 0:08:33.916 --> 0:08:36.676 and he was served at the Aleutian Islands and in Rosville, 0:08:36.716 --> 0:08:39.916 New Mexico. But he was always around music. And my 0:08:39.996 --> 0:08:44.076 dad was choir director at a church in Rockford, but 0:08:44.116 --> 0:08:47.996 we went to Chicago to the Baptist churches at those times. 0:08:47.996 --> 0:08:51.436 I here's a white guy with a black woman. It's 0:08:51.476 --> 0:08:55.156 like and they're singing his great music and everybody's having fun. 0:08:55.516 --> 0:08:58.876 This is it. Then I go back to the other 0:08:58.916 --> 0:09:02.796 stuff and was like, put you to sleep. Music for me, 0:09:02.916 --> 0:09:05.516 It's like, what did I do wrong? God? You know? 0:09:05.516 --> 0:09:09.556 It's like And when my father also did opera, he 0:09:09.556 --> 0:09:13.596 did Barbara Saville, which I walked on stage when I 0:09:13.636 --> 0:09:16.876 was three years old, supposedly, and I walked out on 0:09:16.996 --> 0:09:20.756 stage when they're doing Barbara Saville and people started to 0:09:20.796 --> 0:09:23.876 laugh and clap, and I's like, this is what I 0:09:23.996 --> 0:09:26.556 like this. So I like it when people laugh and clap. 0:09:26.556 --> 0:09:29.516 And it wasn't a direct route to all this stuff. 0:09:29.956 --> 0:09:33.676 But so I was around these kind of wacky artists. 0:09:34.036 --> 0:09:35.996 So I worked in my dad's music store, where I 0:09:36.196 --> 0:09:40.556 goofed off, mostly so i'd see everybody. You know. Sam 0:09:40.636 --> 0:09:45.476 Kennison actually rented a PA when he was an evangelist. 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:48.716 He and his brother amazing. Was there a moment when 0:09:48.796 --> 0:09:51.476 sort of pop music came on the scene or rock music. 0:09:51.876 --> 0:09:54.436 I started out playing drums. Let the b drums, I 0:09:54.476 --> 0:09:56.676 think it was one of them was Sandy Nelson, and 0:09:56.716 --> 0:09:59.276 I like Jean Croupa. I liked that stuff in Plus, 0:09:59.716 --> 0:10:03.996 music on drums is sort of like mathematics, and I 0:10:03.996 --> 0:10:06.196 was always good at math, you know, like instead of one, 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:09.676 two or three four drums one and two E and 0:10:09.836 --> 0:10:13.076 the three. I could write out music like that. Although 0:10:13.076 --> 0:10:15.236 I couldn't really read it, I knew how to write 0:10:15.236 --> 0:10:18.676 it out for me. That really helped me later in songwriting, 0:10:18.956 --> 0:10:22.876 and then as it progressed, I started playing at bands 0:10:23.236 --> 0:10:27.156 as a drummer, and the guitar players were always even 0:10:27.196 --> 0:10:30.676 if we're doing a Rolling Stone song or something. I 0:10:30.676 --> 0:10:32.756 didn't know how to play guitar, but I knew they 0:10:32.796 --> 0:10:35.596 were playing the wrong note, so I'd get off the 0:10:35.676 --> 0:10:38.276 drums and I figure out what the part was, and 0:10:38.396 --> 0:10:42.756 after too much of that, I just decided to give 0:10:42.836 --> 0:10:45.876 up the drums and find some other kid that could 0:10:45.996 --> 0:10:49.076 count to four drums, and I just taught myself how 0:10:49.116 --> 0:10:51.796 to play guitar. Did you just get a guitar from 0:10:51.836 --> 0:10:54.876 your dad's shop? I actually got a guitar from my 0:10:54.876 --> 0:11:00.036 mother was It was a Goya, Swedish brand nylon string guitar. 0:11:00.156 --> 0:11:03.036 That was my first one. I still have it. It 0:11:03.076 --> 0:11:05.036 doesn't sound any good, and it's kind of smashed up 0:11:05.036 --> 0:11:07.556 and broke them, but that's that's how I kind of learned. 0:11:07.596 --> 0:11:10.796 It was the neck was wider and stuff, so I 0:11:10.836 --> 0:11:14.996 actually learned how to play a more difficult instrument instead 0:11:14.996 --> 0:11:17.356 of this easy stuff I got in here. You're the 0:11:17.396 --> 0:11:19.676 sort of guitar hero to people, but you're not the 0:11:19.756 --> 0:11:21.836 kind of guy that stays up on stage and plays 0:11:21.876 --> 0:11:25.716 like ten minutes solos. Oh, I hate that. That's why 0:11:25.956 --> 0:11:28.596 years ago I used to it's a stack my guitars, 0:11:28.636 --> 0:11:32.196 one on top of him. I'm a songwriter and an entertainer. 0:11:32.236 --> 0:11:36.556 I'm not really a virtuoso at all. If my solos 0:11:36.596 --> 0:11:39.676 are shortened to the point the song is more important 0:11:39.716 --> 0:11:44.156 than me right, and you have all your solo parts 0:11:44.196 --> 0:11:47.716 and all your licks worked out before you go on stage. Well, 0:11:47.996 --> 0:11:51.636 if I know the songs, you know sort of yeah, 0:11:51.796 --> 0:11:53.796 Like you're not like Angus Young or someone who just 0:11:53.836 --> 0:11:56.436 gets up there and plays and plays. Well. He plays 0:11:56.436 --> 0:11:59.716 a lot of the stuff that you know that these 0:12:00.196 --> 0:12:01.836 worked out, and a lot of stuff that's on the 0:12:01.916 --> 0:12:06.436 record so that you know, I'll change it if if 0:12:06.476 --> 0:12:08.996 it's that bad. But it's like usually what I do 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:13.436 is like I'll play something that's realistic according to me, 0:12:13.516 --> 0:12:15.996 and it's like I don't know how to explain. It's 0:12:15.996 --> 0:12:19.156 like on this new records, like I don't sound like 0:12:19.196 --> 0:12:22.796 I'm in this old guy. I sound like sometimes I 0:12:22.876 --> 0:12:27.076 would do a solo that's more like the MC five 0:12:29.756 --> 0:12:36.076 or Neil Young. He plays one note that's good enough. Yeah, 0:12:36.116 --> 0:12:39.076 he plays it well. Yeah. When you started playing electric 0:12:39.076 --> 0:12:41.396 guitar and you were in bands, who are the guitarists 0:12:41.396 --> 0:12:45.356 who influenced you to get that very particular sound? Well, 0:12:45.836 --> 0:12:48.676 my favorite and I went to see him. I was, 0:12:49.036 --> 0:12:52.276 I think the first show of I'm Not Sure what 0:12:52.356 --> 0:12:57.956 You're sixty four The Yardbirds Jeff Beck right from the start, 0:12:58.756 --> 0:13:01.556 and I thought he was great. Then I think he's great. 0:13:01.556 --> 0:13:04.876 Now he's still my kind of my hero. And I 0:13:04.876 --> 0:13:08.236 sold him a guitar in nineteen sixty eight, the second 0:13:08.356 --> 0:13:11.236 less Paul you ever owned. Really Yeah, I went and 0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:14.836 saw him in Chicago at the Connecticut Playground. What was 0:13:14.836 --> 0:13:17.516 it about his playing you like so much? You know, 0:13:17.916 --> 0:13:20.636 back then it was like the guitar players that you 0:13:20.756 --> 0:13:28.236 kind of knew about was Scotty Moore, Jenny Atkins, but 0:13:28.356 --> 0:13:31.676 they had he played with round wound strings, and he 0:13:31.756 --> 0:13:34.716 was like, it just didn't sound right, Jeff Beck, sound like, 0:13:35.956 --> 0:13:38.436 how is you get that sound? It's like I was 0:13:39.076 --> 0:13:42.036 back then. It were like there was no guitar magazine 0:13:42.116 --> 0:13:45.436 kind of things. I read in a Hit Parader and 0:13:45.516 --> 0:13:48.716 it was like, how did Jeff Beck get that? He says, well, 0:13:48.916 --> 0:13:51.916 I just you know, punched out the speaker, you know, 0:13:52.076 --> 0:13:54.916 made it kind of raspy and whatever. Of course, so 0:13:55.316 --> 0:13:57.236 the first thing I did was go punch holes in 0:13:57.276 --> 0:14:02.476 my speakers and that and that wasn't it. It's it's him. 0:14:02.596 --> 0:14:04.636 You need Jeff Beck to punch a hole in your speaker, 0:14:04.796 --> 0:14:08.236 not anybody can do. Yeah, you gotta have the right punch. Yeah. 0:14:08.356 --> 0:14:10.916 We'll be right back with more from Rick Nielsen. After 0:14:10.956 --> 0:14:18.196 a quick break, we're back with more of Bruce Headlam's 0:14:18.236 --> 0:14:22.156 conversation with Rick Nielsen. You were playing in bands. The 0:14:22.236 --> 0:14:24.676 other guys in Cheap Trick, we're playing in bands. How 0:14:24.676 --> 0:14:27.276 did you finally all get together? So? I met Tom 0:14:27.516 --> 0:14:30.916 in high school and a new bunny. Bunny was in 0:14:31.316 --> 0:14:33.636 an imposing band. He was in the Pagans and I 0:14:33.676 --> 0:14:36.796 was in the Grim Reapers, and I was like, okay, 0:14:36.836 --> 0:14:41.716 So I thought they were whimpy, and he thought I 0:14:41.796 --> 0:14:46.076 was a Ballahoonian? What does that mean? They carry knives 0:14:46.116 --> 0:14:49.756 like a hood. I was a troublemaker. He had a 0:14:50.196 --> 0:14:53.556 single out, Good Day Sunshine of the Beatles, Good Day 0:14:53.556 --> 0:14:57.396 of Sunshine. You imagine that's like, that's even whimpier than 0:14:57.436 --> 0:15:00.636 the than when I'm sixty four. So then when did 0:15:00.676 --> 0:15:05.676 you meet Robin? Robin? Uh? Bunny knew him and because 0:15:05.956 --> 0:15:08.596 Robin hit you know, he's like five years younger, so 0:15:08.636 --> 0:15:11.676 I never to him. But we had heard that there's 0:15:11.996 --> 0:15:15.636 a singer. Was it's called bb Kems or something. He 0:15:15.716 --> 0:15:19.276 was in a duo. He was doing BG's songs and 0:15:19.516 --> 0:15:23.396 Neil Young and Beatles. We heard that this guy was 0:15:23.396 --> 0:15:26.756 really good. So we're up there with with my manager 0:15:26.756 --> 0:15:30.076 at the time. It's like, because we're looking for a serm. No, 0:15:30.236 --> 0:15:35.676 he picked the other guy. But Robin I, you know, 0:15:35.876 --> 0:15:38.036 I could tell you he had he'd been in quirer 0:15:38.196 --> 0:15:41.036 and stuff growing up, and so he was a real 0:15:41.076 --> 0:15:45.396 singer legit. Later he actually took some singing lessons from 0:15:45.396 --> 0:15:49.716 my father. Who's that right? Yeah? Now, you guys when 0:15:49.756 --> 0:15:52.956 you were playing just because where you were near Chicago, 0:15:53.556 --> 0:15:55.876 you go to Wisconsin, you went, you went. You must 0:15:55.876 --> 0:15:58.556 have spent a lot of time in vans. Oh yeah, 0:15:58.476 --> 0:16:01.636 who did it? Like crazy? Yeah? I read somewhere that 0:16:02.036 --> 0:16:05.836 you preferred playing suburban places because the crowds were bigger, 0:16:05.916 --> 0:16:08.076 Like if you went into Chicago. Some of the clubs 0:16:08.116 --> 0:16:10.596 just weren't They weren't big, and they weren't big enough. 0:16:10.636 --> 0:16:13.236 And it's like, uh, for the most part, they liked 0:16:13.636 --> 0:16:16.556 their horn bands and it's like they go ahead and 0:16:16.556 --> 0:16:20.196 play original stuff. Was not easy, you know, because you 0:16:20.316 --> 0:16:23.876 get the jobs. You know, what what rolling Stone Strong, 0:16:24.156 --> 0:16:26.756 what do you do from the top forty We'd always say, well, 0:16:26.756 --> 0:16:28.916 you know, we got a whole bunch of stuff, and 0:16:28.996 --> 0:16:32.676 we never did. So we did get fired a couple 0:16:32.716 --> 0:16:35.156 of places because we didn't do what they wanted did 0:16:35.236 --> 0:16:37.396 playing like bigger holes out in the suburbs. That that 0:16:37.436 --> 0:16:41.476 affect your sound. That helped shape how you came out. 0:16:42.036 --> 0:16:44.956 You know, being a three piece, you gotta do what 0:16:44.996 --> 0:16:47.196 you do. I mean when like that chord, I played 0:16:47.196 --> 0:16:50.076 to that a chord if you let it ring out, 0:16:50.556 --> 0:16:53.116 there's certain ways to play. It's like I didn't go 0:16:53.276 --> 0:16:57.116 chick chick chick like some some guitar parts and stuff 0:16:57.156 --> 0:17:00.476 and played like that. It's like I've played to fill 0:17:00.556 --> 0:17:02.996 the sound out. And so we'd go to those places. 0:17:03.036 --> 0:17:06.476 And we always had our built our own PA. So 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:08.996 we go to these places like so we we knew 0:17:09.196 --> 0:17:11.436 we wanted. We used to use a TC thirty three 0:17:11.556 --> 0:17:16.076 forty as the slap echo on the voice to sound 0:17:17.116 --> 0:17:21.316 like John Lennon. Oh that's interesting. Yeah, it's a real 0:17:21.356 --> 0:17:22.876 to real. We had to you know, it was running 0:17:22.916 --> 0:17:25.396 all the time. But it was like if I go 0:17:25.436 --> 0:17:27.076 back and listen to some of the tapes we did. 0:17:27.476 --> 0:17:30.276 We were playing in clubs and we sounded good. Yeah, 0:17:30.316 --> 0:17:33.796 and we had good amps. In nineteen sixty eight, when 0:17:33.796 --> 0:17:37.476 I bought my melotron at Orange Music, I bought it used. 0:17:37.556 --> 0:17:39.916 I also bought the very first Orange amp, which I 0:17:39.916 --> 0:17:42.636 still had today. I just liked it. You know. It's like, 0:17:42.716 --> 0:17:45.516 you know, we happened to be smart enough or lucky 0:17:45.636 --> 0:17:49.996 enough to surround myself with good equipment. Yeah, so when 0:17:49.996 --> 0:17:52.756 did you get signed to do the first Cheap Trick album? 0:17:53.476 --> 0:17:56.236 Seventy six? Jack Douglas came to see us, and we 0:17:56.236 --> 0:17:58.236 got turned down by a bunch of people saying tapes 0:17:58.276 --> 0:18:02.996 out or whatever. And Jack Douglas had heard our stuff 0:18:02.996 --> 0:18:06.316 and liked it but wanted to see us. So he 0:18:06.356 --> 0:18:11.076 came to Walkershaw, Wisconsin because it's his in laws lived 0:18:11.116 --> 0:18:16.836 there the Sunset Bowling Alley that had bands on the 0:18:16.916 --> 0:18:18.996 weekend or where and we'd played there a number of 0:18:19.036 --> 0:18:21.716 times and Jack came that night and it plays a 0:18:21.996 --> 0:18:26.676 packed and everybody's drunk and it's like and then we 0:18:26.756 --> 0:18:30.076 came up and played and he immediately liked us. I 0:18:30.076 --> 0:18:32.676 don't know who. You talked to, Tom Worman or somebody 0:18:32.716 --> 0:18:35.316 at the record company and says, you gotta sign these guys. 0:18:35.396 --> 0:18:37.316 I said, I'll do him, you know, And here's Jack 0:18:37.756 --> 0:18:41.236 done Aerosmith record. So I mean it's like his name 0:18:41.276 --> 0:18:45.476 meant a bunch. So we actually went in not long 0:18:45.556 --> 0:18:48.836 after that and I went to New York and went 0:18:48.836 --> 0:18:52.516 to the record plant and I did twenty some songs 0:18:52.556 --> 0:18:55.756 in eight days or something like that. By that point, 0:18:55.876 --> 0:18:58.956 had you guys kind of figured out your look? I 0:18:58.956 --> 0:19:00.636 think it was Jeff Tweedy. You had a great line 0:19:00.636 --> 0:19:03.716 about like how you guys perfected the two good looking 0:19:03.716 --> 0:19:07.356 guys two weird looking guys thing for a band. I 0:19:07.476 --> 0:19:09.396 never wanted to be anybody else. I don't know. I 0:19:09.396 --> 0:19:11.956 wanted to be me. But I was always a class 0:19:12.036 --> 0:19:15.756 clown and I was always the the wise guy, and 0:19:15.956 --> 0:19:18.796 so I didn't look like a rock star. You know, 0:19:18.836 --> 0:19:21.356 like there's a lot of bands back then they you know, 0:19:21.396 --> 0:19:25.396 they were their mother's makeup and used their mother's hair spray, 0:19:25.476 --> 0:19:28.716 and it's like that wasn't me. It was like, so 0:19:29.556 --> 0:19:31.476 I kind of perfect it because like, yeah, I had 0:19:31.516 --> 0:19:35.116 fun being the goof off, you know guy I played 0:19:35.116 --> 0:19:37.556 the guitar solos or whatever it's like, and you people 0:19:37.596 --> 0:19:39.796 look at me, He's like, that's that guy. You know, 0:19:39.836 --> 0:19:42.396 he doesn't look like he has a nickel in his pocket. 0:19:42.436 --> 0:19:45.236 And your first album, I don't think sold, but your 0:19:45.276 --> 0:19:48.236 second album had did. Have I Want You to Want Me? 0:19:48.276 --> 0:19:51.796 I think it did. Yeah, that was in color, and 0:19:52.036 --> 0:19:54.716 we did that. That came out on seventy and seventy seven, 0:19:54.836 --> 0:19:59.396 also between the first album coming out and that and Uh, 0:19:59.836 --> 0:20:04.916 that came out and that was the Rolling Stone issue 0:20:05.636 --> 0:20:08.916 that where Elvis had died. He's on the cover and 0:20:09.116 --> 0:20:13.476 our reviews on the inside, and we got I think 0:20:13.476 --> 0:20:16.036 we got pretty good reviews, and that one sold a 0:20:16.076 --> 0:20:20.196 little bit more but that. But in Japan we had 0:20:20.276 --> 0:20:23.676 a number one song, Clock Strikes ten, which never got 0:20:23.716 --> 0:20:26.956 any airplane in the airplace. And so it must have 0:20:26.996 --> 0:20:29.196 been strange though, because you were a struggling band here. 0:20:29.956 --> 0:20:31.636 You put out some albums, you hadn't had a lot 0:20:31.676 --> 0:20:34.636 of success, but then you went to Japan. You did 0:20:34.716 --> 0:20:37.236 the live album, but you were like the Beatles in Japan. 0:20:37.716 --> 0:20:40.316 That sort of seemed like, didn't it. It was frightening, 0:20:40.396 --> 0:20:42.556 but it was like they were the coolest people I'd 0:20:42.596 --> 0:20:44.836 ever met, you know, or never met. You know, It's 0:20:44.876 --> 0:20:48.956 like these guys like us. There was so much screaming 0:20:48.996 --> 0:20:52.556 at the concerts. I know, it was fantastic. And then 0:20:53.276 --> 0:20:56.036 was it strange to come back to the States where you're, oh, yeah, 0:20:56.036 --> 0:20:58.836 we're big in Japan. You weren't so big here yet. Yeah, 0:20:59.316 --> 0:21:02.996 I was like, man, you got a taste of that. 0:21:03.116 --> 0:21:06.116 Now that's cool. You know. It's like we can play 0:21:06.156 --> 0:21:10.156 these arenas and do do okay, you know, because we're 0:21:10.236 --> 0:21:12.876 slaying them over there. And I was like, yeah, you know, 0:21:13.076 --> 0:21:14.956 but they liked us. I remember we were a good 0:21:15.036 --> 0:21:17.436 we're a good band. I remember we're not great or whatever. 0:21:17.556 --> 0:21:20.436 But but you want you're a very distinctive band because 0:21:20.436 --> 0:21:23.196 you've written most of the songs. Can you tell me 0:21:23.476 --> 0:21:26.756 what is is there some secret sauce to a cheap 0:21:26.796 --> 0:21:29.436 trick song? What is it that makes your songs distinctive 0:21:29.996 --> 0:21:32.916 that people like about them. I think we're diverse, which 0:21:32.916 --> 0:21:35.836 I think is probably you know, it's like somebody might 0:21:35.916 --> 0:21:38.556 like this one and then it's like, oh but there's 0:21:38.596 --> 0:21:41.036 other stuff. You can listen. It's not like one song 0:21:41.116 --> 0:21:44.516 and then they're they're ninety five ninety percent more, but 0:21:44.596 --> 0:21:47.316 they're just not as good as that one. And you know, 0:21:47.756 --> 0:21:49.916 different people like different stuff. I mean, clocks are extend. 0:21:49.956 --> 0:21:52.476 It's like that's a hit. It's like here if you'd 0:21:52.476 --> 0:21:55.236 play and nobody knew it. And one of those things 0:21:55.276 --> 0:21:58.436 that we had done on our early records, it's like 0:21:58.916 --> 0:22:02.796 I wrote hello there as a for a sound check. Hello, 0:22:02.836 --> 0:22:05.916 they're late. You know. It starts out drums boom boom, boom. Okay, 0:22:05.956 --> 0:22:10.196 now that's in. Okay, now the basoom boom, here's the guitar. Day. 0:22:10.356 --> 0:22:12.676 It was a sound check for doing these big shows 0:22:13.036 --> 0:22:15.396 we're doing, because if you think about what intros, what's 0:22:15.396 --> 0:22:16.956 the first song we should play in our set with 0:22:17.596 --> 0:22:20.716 Queen or or who ended, whoever, you gotta get their attention. 0:22:20.796 --> 0:22:23.236 Let's let's play this one. That's real moody and in 0:22:23.276 --> 0:22:25.596 the middle part, you know, it's like, don't overthink it. 0:22:25.676 --> 0:22:29.556 So that's how those songs came above. We'll be right 0:22:29.596 --> 0:22:32.356 back with more from Rick Nielsen. After a quick break. 0:22:37.036 --> 0:22:39.756 We're back with the rest of Bruce Helen's conversation with 0:22:39.876 --> 0:22:43.996 Rick Nielsen. You've had a long relationship with the Beatles. 0:22:44.596 --> 0:22:47.756 Now I'm not quite sure. I know. George Martin produced 0:22:47.796 --> 0:22:51.076 your album in nineteen eighty and that's also when you 0:22:51.116 --> 0:22:55.076 were working with John Lennon, which came first. We worked 0:22:55.116 --> 0:22:59.756 with George in aer Studios, Monsterrot and that was as 0:22:59.756 --> 0:23:03.036 the beginning of nineteen eighty and then we went to 0:23:03.076 --> 0:23:06.876 England to finish it and then it was in August 0:23:06.916 --> 0:23:11.036 of eighty August twelfth. That went and worked with John Lennon. 0:23:11.636 --> 0:23:13.876 So tell me what was it like to work with 0:23:13.876 --> 0:23:16.316 George Martin or George of great He was like the 0:23:16.876 --> 0:23:23.676 smartest musician, producer overall arrangement whatever. I mean, he was 0:23:23.716 --> 0:23:26.036 the he liked us stute. I mean that was that 0:23:26.156 --> 0:23:28.316 was We were kind of shocked at that. You know, 0:23:28.596 --> 0:23:30.276 we got it. We got them to come to Madison. 0:23:30.356 --> 0:23:32.836 He and Jeff Emeric come to Madison the middle of 0:23:32.876 --> 0:23:37.036 winter for pre production. You can imagine, George Martin, you 0:23:37.076 --> 0:23:39.516 want to go to magazine Wisconsin three foot of snow 0:23:39.556 --> 0:23:43.356 and where your goloshes now? And he came to see us. 0:23:43.396 --> 0:23:45.956 He liked the band enough and the songs enough and 0:23:46.116 --> 0:23:50.756 us enough that he said yes, and so hey, we're 0:23:50.756 --> 0:23:53.516 gonna go to Montserrat in the British West Indies, my 0:23:53.596 --> 0:23:58.236 new studio Air Studios. Okay, you know it's like you know. 0:23:58.316 --> 0:24:02.196 So he packed up and went down there and did 0:24:02.196 --> 0:24:04.876 the tracks there and finished it. Then we flew to 0:24:04.916 --> 0:24:08.356 New York and took the concord over to London and 0:24:08.396 --> 0:24:10.196 we took the go to over and then we took 0:24:10.236 --> 0:24:13.436 it back. When we were done, we went to stay 0:24:13.476 --> 0:24:17.316 in London and finished the record there. But I'm fascinated 0:24:17.316 --> 0:24:19.356 just because there's so many stories about George Martin with 0:24:19.396 --> 0:24:21.796 the Beatles. What was he like in the studio. It 0:24:21.836 --> 0:24:26.036 was great. It was like very professional and to experiment 0:24:26.156 --> 0:24:30.156 on stuff. We did. Stop this game was one of them, 0:24:30.476 --> 0:24:47.636 and he uh, the intro, so I did that, but 0:24:47.796 --> 0:24:50.676 we did it with the orchestra dot dot that that that, 0:24:51.636 --> 0:24:54.516 but the very beginning of the songs like well, I 0:24:54.556 --> 0:24:58.236 can't stop the music. I seven we did recorded an 0:24:58.276 --> 0:25:02.036 e notte and then he went to the second track 0:25:02.156 --> 0:25:05.236 on a piano and recorded that, and we left the 0:25:05.276 --> 0:25:08.436 attack off on each one, so we didn't he didn't 0:25:08.516 --> 0:25:12.036 hit the die. You hit that and then the next one, 0:25:12.356 --> 0:25:14.556 and we did like I don't know how many twelve 0:25:14.716 --> 0:25:17.836 or twelve tracks of that, you know, delaying the next 0:25:17.836 --> 0:25:20.196 one by a beat and then the next one and 0:25:20.196 --> 0:25:23.356 so it's just a continuous loop. And it was like 0:25:23.796 --> 0:25:25.596