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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Before we get started, let's talk about Pushnick. Pushnick

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Speaker 1: is a subscription program available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Subscriptions

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Speaker 1: members will get access to bonus content like extended versions

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Speaker 1: of Our Beastie Boys and Brian Eno episodes. You'll also

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Speaker 1: get ad free listening to many of your favorite podcasts

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Speaker 1: like Pubbishnist, History, Cautionary Tales, The Happiness Lab, and Ours

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Speaker 1: Broken Record. You can try it for free for seven days.

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Speaker 1: Sign up for Pushnick and Apple podcast subscriptions. Rick Nielsen

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Speaker 1: is best known as Cheap Tricks, lead guitarist and mains songwriter,

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Speaker 1: the band that helped popularize power pop in the late

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Speaker 1: seventies with songs like Surrender and I Want You To

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Speaker 1: Want Me, precursors to the pop punk explosion in the

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Speaker 1: nineties with bands like Green Day in Blink one eighty two.

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Speaker 1: In June, Cheap Trick released their twentieth studio album, In

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Speaker 1: Another World. It's chock full of Rick Nielsen's monster riffs

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Speaker 1: that recall their glory days in the nineteen seventies. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, Bruce held Them talks to Rick Nielsen about

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Speaker 1: Cheap Trick's origin story while Nielsen fiddles around on electric

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Speaker 1: guitar and samples riffs from the new album. Nielsen also

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Speaker 1: talks about how he was hired to bring a hard

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Speaker 1: rock sound to John Lennon's final album with Yoko, Double Fantasy,

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Speaker 1: and what it was like working with the Beatles legendary

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Speaker 1: producer George Martin. This is broken record liner notes for

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Speaker 1: the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce had them

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Speaker 1: with cheap tricks. Rick Nielsen, we're gonna talk about In

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Speaker 1: Another World, which is your new album. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: you guys were having fun making this album. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think we were. I think we do. Just sounds really

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Speaker 1: kind of joyful and fun. That's kind of the idea.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we make records for ourselves. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: don't have a manager that hangs over us or a producer.

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Speaker 1: That's here's what we're gonna do. We got this going

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Speaker 1: in the record label of BMG's but not Fabulous. I

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Speaker 1: mean they're so fabulous that that they don't bother us.

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Speaker 1: And it's like it's the perfect record label, the first

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Speaker 1: one we've ever had like that. It's like, it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: So what's writing like? Are you on a bus? Are

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Speaker 1: you in a hotel and you just pick up your guitar.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of how we all did it. I mean

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Speaker 1: I used to write one hundred percent of the stuff.

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Speaker 1: We just got. Somebody's got an idea and that sounds

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Speaker 1: If it sounds interesting, then we'll go for it. Now,

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Speaker 1: you just picked up a guitar, which is not a

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Speaker 1: surprise because you own how many guitars? Now, do you

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Speaker 1: own about five hundred? Well, I've owned about two thousand instruments.

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Speaker 1: But I've been around for a long time and I've traded.

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Speaker 1: I've traded stuff, I had stuff, I broke stuff, I

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Speaker 1: gave stuff away. I mean, I've got a guitar, a

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Speaker 1: real guitar, in almost every hard rocket around the world. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So while you've got the guitar in your hand, tell

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Speaker 1: me about writing the first single, which is Summer looks

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Speaker 1: good on you. I think we had a title first

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Speaker 1: seemed like a good idea. Listen, it could be a

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Speaker 1: summer song, you know. So yeah, it comes to summer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's that one. That's it. Yeah, because we had

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Speaker 1: two of that came out about the same time that

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Speaker 1: we were doing Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like how we wrote the Parson, we did the

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Speaker 1: deeper the B flat sounds kind of weird in there,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that was some stuff that we like. When

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Speaker 1: we did a tax Men and Stiff competition, the same thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just kind of like that. That sounds

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Speaker 1: yeah thing, and it sounds different every time. And we

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Speaker 1: use chords that a lot of people don't use. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like over and over again. Yeah, well and this

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Speaker 1: the song is in E, right, isn't it. Uh well,

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Speaker 1: the chorus is in D and the versus A. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There you go listening to that and I hadn't really

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Speaker 1: thought of it before. It sounds a lot like Peter

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Speaker 1: Townsend to me. We hit the chords equally hard. Was

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Speaker 1: he an influence on you? Oh yeah? I mean it

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Speaker 1: Loves Who was the best live band ever. You know,

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Speaker 1: I played with them, opened for them when when Keith

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Speaker 1: Moon was still wrong and what was that like? It

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Speaker 1: was great? You know, It's like because we'd read a

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Speaker 1: bomb and actually we knew their songs. We opened for

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Speaker 1: him at Majestic Hills in Late Geneva, Wisconsin in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty eight, two weeks after we'd opened for Frank Zapp

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Speaker 1: and the mothers and Wow, yeah, you know you were

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Speaker 1: the band when you came out that everybody liked. The

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Speaker 1: heavy metal guys liked you, the new wave guys liked you.

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Speaker 1: What's not to like? Well, what's not? But you just

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Speaker 1: appealed to such a wide group of like everybody could

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Speaker 1: agree on Cheap Trick, even though if they disagreed about

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Speaker 1: everything else. It seems like that. I mean I heard

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Speaker 1: that from a lot of people. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the Ramons like cheap Trick, you know, And Joey

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Speaker 1: did a number of our songs. He the Southern Girls.

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Speaker 1: He came to see us, and he's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's from New York. We're from the Chicago area. We never,

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Speaker 1: you know, really saw them unless we went to see him,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't know him personally. So it's like when

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Speaker 1: we started meeting these guys, it was kind of fun.

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Speaker 1: And the New York Dolls they came to see us

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Speaker 1: play I want to go way back, Okay. Because you

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Speaker 1: grew up in a musical family, yes, I did tell

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Speaker 1: me about that. My father was an opera sayeron and

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Speaker 1: he was also a religious kind of saying. He's saying

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Speaker 1: with Billy Graham He had a radio show in Chicago

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Speaker 1: on w MBI, which is the Moody Bible Institute, where

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Speaker 1: where both my grandfathers graduated from. They were both ministers.

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Speaker 1: So I was around music. And my dad it was

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Speaker 1: a choir director in World War Two. He's a captain

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Speaker 1: and he was served at the Aleutian Islands and in Rosville,

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Speaker 1: New Mexico. But he was always around music. And my

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Speaker 1: dad was choir director at a church in Rockford, but

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Speaker 1: we went to Chicago to the Baptist churches at those times.

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Speaker 1: I here's a white guy with a black woman. It's

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Speaker 1: like and they're singing his great music and everybody's having fun.

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Speaker 1: This is it. Then I go back to the other

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Speaker 1: stuff and was like, put you to sleep. Music for me,

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Speaker 1: It's like, what did I do wrong? God? You know?

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Speaker 1: It's like And when my father also did opera, he

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Speaker 1: did Barbara Saville, which I walked on stage when I

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Speaker 1: was three years old, supposedly, and I walked out on

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Speaker 1: stage when they're doing Barbara Saville and people started to

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Speaker 1: laugh and clap, and I's like, this is what I

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Speaker 1: like this. So I like it when people laugh and clap.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't a direct route to all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: But so I was around these kind of wacky artists.

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Speaker 1: So I worked in my dad's music store, where I

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Speaker 1: goofed off, mostly so i'd see everybody. You know. Sam

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Speaker 1: Kennison actually rented a PA when he was an evangelist.

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Speaker 1: He and his brother amazing. Was there a moment when

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Speaker 1: sort of pop music came on the scene or rock music.

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Speaker 1: I started out playing drums. Let the b drums, I

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Speaker 1: think it was one of them was Sandy Nelson, and

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Speaker 1: I like Jean Croupa. I liked that stuff in Plus,

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Speaker 1: music on drums is sort of like mathematics, and I

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Speaker 1: was always good at math, you know, like instead of one,

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Speaker 1: two or three four drums one and two E and

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Speaker 1: the three. I could write out music like that. Although

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Speaker 1: I couldn't really read it, I knew how to write

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Speaker 1: it out for me. That really helped me later in songwriting,

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Speaker 1: and then as it progressed, I started playing at bands

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Speaker 1: as a drummer, and the guitar players were always even

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Speaker 1: if we're doing a Rolling Stone song or something. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to play guitar, but I knew they

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Speaker 1: were playing the wrong note, so I'd get off the

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Speaker 1: drums and I figure out what the part was, and

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Speaker 1: after too much of that, I just decided to give

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Speaker 1: up the drums and find some other kid that could

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Speaker 1: count to four drums, and I just taught myself how

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Speaker 1: to play guitar. Did you just get a guitar from

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Speaker 1: your dad's shop? I actually got a guitar from my

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Speaker 1: mother was It was a Goya, Swedish brand nylon string guitar.

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Speaker 1: That was my first one. I still have it. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound any good, and it's kind of smashed up

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Speaker 1: and broke them, but that's that's how I kind of learned.

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Speaker 1: It was the neck was wider and stuff, so I

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Speaker 1: actually learned how to play a more difficult instrument instead

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Speaker 1: of this easy stuff I got in here. You're the

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Speaker 1: sort of guitar hero to people, but you're not the

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Speaker 1: kind of guy that stays up on stage and plays

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Speaker 1: like ten minutes solos. Oh, I hate that. That's why

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Speaker 1: years ago I used to it's a stack my guitars,

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Speaker 1: one on top of him. I'm a songwriter and an entertainer.

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Speaker 1: I'm not really a virtuoso at all. If my solos

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Speaker 1: are shortened to the point the song is more important

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Speaker 1: than me right, and you have all your solo parts

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Speaker 1: and all your licks worked out before you go on stage. Well,

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Speaker 1: if I know the songs, you know sort of yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like you're not like Angus Young or someone who just

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Speaker 1: gets up there and plays and plays. Well. He plays

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Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that you know that these

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Speaker 1: worked out, and a lot of stuff that's on the

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Speaker 1: record so that you know, I'll change it if if

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Speaker 1: it's that bad. But it's like usually what I do

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Speaker 1: is like I'll play something that's realistic according to me,

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Speaker 1: and it's like I don't know how to explain. It's

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Speaker 1: like on this new records, like I don't sound like

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Speaker 1: I'm in this old guy. I sound like sometimes I

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Speaker 1: would do a solo that's more like the MC five

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Speaker 1: or Neil Young. He plays one note that's good enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he plays it well. Yeah. When you started playing electric

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Speaker 1: guitar and you were in bands, who are the guitarists

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Speaker 1: who influenced you to get that very particular sound? Well,

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Speaker 1: my favorite and I went to see him. I was,

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Speaker 1: I think the first show of I'm Not Sure what

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Speaker 1: You're sixty four The Yardbirds Jeff Beck right from the start,

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Speaker 1: and I thought he was great. Then I think he's great.

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Speaker 1: Now he's still my kind of my hero. And I

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Speaker 1: sold him a guitar in nineteen sixty eight, the second

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Speaker 1: less Paul you ever owned. Really Yeah, I went and

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Speaker 1: saw him in Chicago at the Connecticut Playground. What was

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Speaker 1: it about his playing you like so much? You know,

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Speaker 1: back then it was like the guitar players that you

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Speaker 1: kind of knew about was Scotty Moore, Jenny Atkins, but

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Speaker 1: they had he played with round wound strings, and he

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Speaker 1: was like, it just didn't sound right, Jeff Beck, sound like,

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Speaker 1: how is you get that sound? It's like I was

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Speaker 1: back then. It were like there was no guitar magazine

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Speaker 1: kind of things. I read in a Hit Parader and

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Speaker 1: it was like, how did Jeff Beck get that? He says, well,

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Speaker 1: I just you know, punched out the speaker, you know,

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Speaker 1: made it kind of raspy and whatever. Of course, so

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Speaker 1: the first thing I did was go punch holes in

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Speaker 1: my speakers and that and that wasn't it. It's it's him.

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Speaker 1: You need Jeff Beck to punch a hole in your speaker,

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Speaker 1: not anybody can do. Yeah, you gotta have the right punch. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Rick Nielsen. After

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Speaker 1: a quick break, we're back with more of Bruce Headlam's

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Speaker 1: conversation with Rick Nielsen. You were playing in bands. The

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Speaker 1: other guys in Cheap Trick, we're playing in bands. How

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Speaker 1: did you finally all get together? So? I met Tom

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Speaker 1: in high school and a new bunny. Bunny was in

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Speaker 1: an imposing band. He was in the Pagans and I

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Speaker 1: was in the Grim Reapers, and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I thought they were whimpy, and he thought I

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Speaker 1: was a Ballahoonian? What does that mean? They carry knives

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Speaker 1: like a hood. I was a troublemaker. He had a

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Speaker 1: single out, Good Day Sunshine of the Beatles, Good Day

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Speaker 1: of Sunshine. You imagine that's like, that's even whimpier than

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Speaker 1: the than when I'm sixty four. So then when did

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Speaker 1: you meet Robin? Robin? Uh? Bunny knew him and because

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Speaker 1: Robin hit you know, he's like five years younger, so

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Speaker 1: I never to him. But we had heard that there's

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Speaker 1: a singer. Was it's called bb Kems or something. He

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Speaker 1: was in a duo. He was doing BG's songs and

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Speaker 1: Neil Young and Beatles. We heard that this guy was

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Speaker 1: really good. So we're up there with with my manager

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Speaker 1: at the time. It's like, because we're looking for a serm. No,

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Speaker 1: he picked the other guy. But Robin I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I could tell you he had he'd been in quirer

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Speaker 1: and stuff growing up, and so he was a real

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Speaker 1: singer legit. Later he actually took some singing lessons from

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Speaker 1: my father. Who's that right? Yeah? Now, you guys when

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Speaker 1: you were playing just because where you were near Chicago,

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Speaker 1: you go to Wisconsin, you went, you went. You must

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Speaker 1: have spent a lot of time in vans. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: who did it? Like crazy? Yeah? I read somewhere that

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Speaker 1: you preferred playing suburban places because the crowds were bigger,

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Speaker 1: Like if you went into Chicago. Some of the clubs

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Speaker 1: just weren't They weren't big, and they weren't big enough.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, uh, for the most part, they liked

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Speaker 1: their horn bands and it's like they go ahead and

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Speaker 1: play original stuff. Was not easy, you know, because you

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Speaker 1: get the jobs. You know, what what rolling Stone Strong,

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Speaker 1: what do you do from the top forty We'd always say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, we got a whole bunch of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: we never did. So we did get fired a couple

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Speaker 1: of places because we didn't do what they wanted did

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Speaker 1: playing like bigger holes out in the suburbs. That that

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Speaker 1: affect your sound. That helped shape how you came out.

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Speaker 1: You know, being a three piece, you gotta do what

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Speaker 1: you do. I mean when like that chord, I played

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Speaker 1: to that a chord if you let it ring out,

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Speaker 1: there's certain ways to play. It's like I didn't go

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Speaker 1: chick chick chick like some some guitar parts and stuff

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Speaker 1: and played like that. It's like I've played to fill

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Speaker 1: the sound out. And so we'd go to those places.

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Speaker 1: And we always had our built our own PA. So

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Speaker 1: we go to these places like so we we knew

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Speaker 1: we wanted. We used to use a TC thirty three

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Speaker 1: forty as the slap echo on the voice to sound

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Speaker 1: like John Lennon. Oh that's interesting. Yeah, it's a real

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Speaker 1: to real. We had to you know, it was running

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Speaker 1: all the time. But it was like if I go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to some of the tapes we did.

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Speaker 1: We were playing in clubs and we sounded good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we had good amps. In nineteen sixty eight, when

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Speaker 1: I bought my melotron at Orange Music, I bought it used.

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Speaker 1: I also bought the very first Orange amp, which I

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Speaker 1: still had today. I just liked it. You know. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we happened to be smart enough or lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to surround myself with good equipment. Yeah, so when

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Speaker 1: did you get signed to do the first Cheap Trick album?

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Speaker 1: Seventy six? Jack Douglas came to see us, and we

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Speaker 1: got turned down by a bunch of people saying tapes

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Speaker 1: out or whatever. And Jack Douglas had heard our stuff

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Speaker 1: and liked it but wanted to see us. So he

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Speaker 1: came to Walkershaw, Wisconsin because it's his in laws lived

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Speaker 1: there the Sunset Bowling Alley that had bands on the

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Speaker 1: weekend or where and we'd played there a number of

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Speaker 1: times and Jack came that night and it plays a

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00:18:21,996 --> 00:18:26,676
Speaker 1: packed and everybody's drunk and it's like and then we

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Speaker 1: came up and played and he immediately liked us. I

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Speaker 1: don't know who. You talked to, Tom Worman or somebody

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Speaker 1: at the record company and says, you gotta sign these guys.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'll do him, you know, And here's Jack

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Speaker 1: done Aerosmith record. So I mean it's like his name

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Speaker 1: meant a bunch. So we actually went in not long

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Speaker 1: after that and I went to New York and went

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Speaker 1: to the record plant and I did twenty some songs

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Speaker 1: in eight days or something like that. By that point,

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Speaker 1: had you guys kind of figured out your look? I

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Speaker 1: think it was Jeff Tweedy. You had a great line

288
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Speaker 1: about like how you guys perfected the two good looking

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Speaker 1: guys two weird looking guys thing for a band. I

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Speaker 1: never wanted to be anybody else. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be me. But I was always a class

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Speaker 1: clown and I was always the the wise guy, and

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Speaker 1: so I didn't look like a rock star. You know,

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of bands back then they you know,

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Speaker 1: they were their mother's makeup and used their mother's hair spray,

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Speaker 1: and it's like that wasn't me. It was like, so

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Speaker 1: I kind of perfect it because like, yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: fun being the goof off, you know guy I played

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Speaker 1: the guitar solos or whatever it's like, and you people

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00:19:37,596 --> 00:19:39,796
Speaker 1: look at me, He's like, that's that guy. You know,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't look like he has a nickel in his pocket.

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Speaker 1: And your first album, I don't think sold, but your

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00:19:45,276 --> 00:19:48,236
Speaker 1: second album had did. Have I Want You to Want Me?

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00:19:48,276 --> 00:19:51,796
Speaker 1: I think it did. Yeah, that was in color, and

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00:19:52,036 --> 00:19:54,716
Speaker 1: we did that. That came out on seventy and seventy seven,

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00:19:54,836 --> 00:19:59,396
Speaker 1: also between the first album coming out and that and Uh,

307
00:19:59,836 --> 00:20:04,916
Speaker 1: that came out and that was the Rolling Stone issue

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00:20:05,636 --> 00:20:08,916
Speaker 1: that where Elvis had died. He's on the cover and

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Speaker 1: our reviews on the inside, and we got I think

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Speaker 1: we got pretty good reviews, and that one sold a

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00:20:16,076 --> 00:20:20,196
Speaker 1: little bit more but that. But in Japan we had

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Speaker 1: a number one song, Clock Strikes ten, which never got

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Speaker 1: any airplane in the airplace. And so it must have

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Speaker 1: been strange though, because you were a struggling band here.

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Speaker 1: You put out some albums, you hadn't had a lot

316
00:20:31,676 --> 00:20:34,636
Speaker 1: of success, but then you went to Japan. You did

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00:20:34,716 --> 00:20:37,236
Speaker 1: the live album, but you were like the Beatles in Japan.

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Speaker 1: That sort of seemed like, didn't it. It was frightening,

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Speaker 1: but it was like they were the coolest people I'd

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Speaker 1: ever met, you know, or never met. You know, It's

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Speaker 1: like these guys like us. There was so much screaming

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Speaker 1: at the concerts. I know, it was fantastic. And then

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Speaker 1: was it strange to come back to the States where you're, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're big in Japan. You weren't so big here yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was like, man, you got a taste of that.

326
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Speaker 1: Now that's cool. You know. It's like we can play

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Speaker 1: these arenas and do do okay, you know, because we're

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00:21:10,236 --> 00:21:12,876
Speaker 1: slaying them over there. And I was like, yeah, you know,

329
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Speaker 1: but they liked us. I remember we were a good

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Speaker 1: we're a good band. I remember we're not great or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But but you want you're a very distinctive band because

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Speaker 1: you've written most of the songs. Can you tell me

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Speaker 1: what is is there some secret sauce to a cheap

334
00:21:26,796 --> 00:21:29,436
Speaker 1: trick song? What is it that makes your songs distinctive

335
00:21:29,996 --> 00:21:32,916
Speaker 1: that people like about them. I think we're diverse, which

336
00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:35,836
Speaker 1: I think is probably you know, it's like somebody might

337
00:21:35,916 --> 00:21:38,556
Speaker 1: like this one and then it's like, oh but there's

338
00:21:38,596 --> 00:21:41,036
Speaker 1: other stuff. You can listen. It's not like one song

339
00:21:41,116 --> 00:21:44,516
Speaker 1: and then they're they're ninety five ninety percent more, but

340
00:21:44,596 --> 00:21:47,316
Speaker 1: they're just not as good as that one. And you know,

341
00:21:47,756 --> 00:21:49,916
Speaker 1: different people like different stuff. I mean, clocks are extend.

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00:21:49,956 --> 00:21:52,476
Speaker 1: It's like that's a hit. It's like here if you'd

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Speaker 1: play and nobody knew it. And one of those things

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Speaker 1: that we had done on our early records, it's like

345
00:21:58,916 --> 00:22:02,796
Speaker 1: I wrote hello there as a for a sound check. Hello,

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00:22:02,836 --> 00:22:05,916
Speaker 1: they're late. You know. It starts out drums boom boom, boom. Okay,

347
00:22:05,956 --> 00:22:10,196
Speaker 1: now that's in. Okay, now the basoom boom, here's the guitar. Day.

348
00:22:10,356 --> 00:22:12,676
Speaker 1: It was a sound check for doing these big shows

349
00:22:13,036 --> 00:22:15,396
Speaker 1: we're doing, because if you think about what intros, what's

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00:22:15,396 --> 00:22:16,956
Speaker 1: the first song we should play in our set with

351
00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:20,716
Speaker 1: Queen or or who ended, whoever, you gotta get their attention.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's play this one. That's real moody and in

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Speaker 1: the middle part, you know, it's like, don't overthink it.

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Speaker 1: So that's how those songs came above. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back with more from Rick Nielsen. After a quick break.

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Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Bruce Helen's conversation with

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Speaker 1: Rick Nielsen. You've had a long relationship with the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm not quite sure. I know. George Martin produced

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Speaker 1: your album in nineteen eighty and that's also when you

360
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Speaker 1: were working with John Lennon, which came first. We worked

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Speaker 1: with George in aer Studios, Monsterrot and that was as

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Speaker 1: the beginning of nineteen eighty and then we went to

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Speaker 1: England to finish it and then it was in August

364
00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:11,036
Speaker 1: of eighty August twelfth. That went and worked with John Lennon.

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Speaker 1: So tell me what was it like to work with

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Speaker 1: George Martin or George of great He was like the

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Speaker 1: smartest musician, producer overall arrangement whatever. I mean, he was

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00:23:23,716 --> 00:23:26,036
Speaker 1: the he liked us stute. I mean that was that

369
00:23:26,156 --> 00:23:28,316
Speaker 1: was We were kind of shocked at that. You know,

370
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Speaker 1: we got it. We got them to come to Madison.

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Speaker 1: He and Jeff Emeric come to Madison the middle of

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Speaker 1: winter for pre production. You can imagine, George Martin, you

373
00:23:37,076 --> 00:23:39,516
Speaker 1: want to go to magazine Wisconsin three foot of snow

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Speaker 1: and where your goloshes now? And he came to see us.

375
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Speaker 1: He liked the band enough and the songs enough and

376
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Speaker 1: us enough that he said yes, and so hey, we're

377
00:23:50,756 --> 00:23:53,516
Speaker 1: gonna go to Montserrat in the British West Indies, my

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00:23:53,596 --> 00:23:58,236
Speaker 1: new studio Air Studios. Okay, you know it's like you know.

379
00:23:58,316 --> 00:24:02,196
Speaker 1: So he packed up and went down there and did

380
00:24:02,196 --> 00:24:04,876
Speaker 1: the tracks there and finished it. Then we flew to

381
00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:08,356
Speaker 1: New York and took the concord over to London and

382
00:24:08,396 --> 00:24:10,196
Speaker 1: we took the go to over and then we took

383
00:24:10,236 --> 00:24:13,436
Speaker 1: it back. When we were done, we went to stay

384
00:24:13,476 --> 00:24:17,316
Speaker 1: in London and finished the record there. But I'm fascinated

385
00:24:17,316 --> 00:24:19,356
Speaker 1: just because there's so many stories about George Martin with

386
00:24:19,396 --> 00:24:21,796
Speaker 1: the Beatles. What was he like in the studio. It

387
00:24:21,836 --> 00:24:26,036
Speaker 1: was great. It was like very professional and to experiment

388
00:24:26,156 --> 00:24:30,156
Speaker 1: on stuff. We did. Stop this game was one of them,

389
00:24:30,476 --> 00:24:47,636
Speaker 1: and he uh, the intro, so I did that, but

390
00:24:47,796 --> 00:24:50,676
Speaker 1: we did it with the orchestra dot dot that that that,

391
00:24:51,636 --> 00:24:54,516
Speaker 1: but the very beginning of the songs like well, I

392
00:24:54,556 --> 00:24:58,236
Speaker 1: can't stop the music. I seven we did recorded an

393
00:24:58,276 --> 00:25:02,036
Speaker 1: e notte and then he went to the second track

394
00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:05,236
Speaker 1: on a piano and recorded that, and we left the

395
00:25:05,276 --> 00:25:08,436
Speaker 1: attack off on each one, so we didn't he didn't

396
00:25:08,516 --> 00:25:12,036
Speaker 1: hit the die. You hit that and then the next one,

397
00:25:12,356 --> 00:25:14,556
Speaker 1: and we did like I don't know how many twelve

398
00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:17,836
Speaker 1: or twelve tracks of that, you know, delaying the next

399
00:25:17,836 --> 00:25:20,196
Speaker 1: one by a beat and then the next one and

400
00:25:20,196 --> 00:25:23,356
Speaker 1: so it's just a continuous loop. And it was like

401
00:25:23,796 --> 00:25:25,596
Speaker 1: and I think he said, well, that's what they use

402
00:25:25,636 --> 00:25:29,276
Speaker 1: at the end of one of the Beatle tracks. So

403
00:25:29,276 --> 00:25:31,836
Speaker 1: so we were privy to that, you know, working with

404
00:25:31,876 --> 00:25:34,956
Speaker 1: the best guy on Earth and some of those tricks.

405
00:25:34,996 --> 00:25:39,876
Speaker 1: And later when we did all the Sergeant Pepper shows,

406
00:25:40,556 --> 00:25:43,916
Speaker 1: which I went to Georgia's house out in the country

407
00:25:43,916 --> 00:25:47,756
Speaker 1: and he cooked lunch for for us, and uh I

408
00:25:47,836 --> 00:25:51,196
Speaker 1: got his blessing and the and the charts for Sergeant

409
00:25:51,196 --> 00:25:54,956
Speaker 1: Pepper to do that. Oh, he gave you the original charts. Yeah,

410
00:25:55,036 --> 00:25:57,756
Speaker 1: you guys did a big performance of Sergeant Pepper. Yeah

411
00:25:57,796 --> 00:26:02,676
Speaker 1: we didn't ninety shows and uh so I got his

412
00:26:02,716 --> 00:26:05,076
Speaker 1: blessing for that, and you know, we just got along. Well,

413
00:26:05,156 --> 00:26:08,516
Speaker 1: it's like and here I am. You know, I always

414
00:26:08,516 --> 00:26:11,236
Speaker 1: think of myself. I'm Rick from Rockford. You know. It's like,

415
00:26:12,276 --> 00:26:13,876
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, if you can make it in

416
00:26:13,916 --> 00:26:15,636
Speaker 1: New York, you can make it anyways. I said, if

417
00:26:15,636 --> 00:26:17,636
Speaker 1: you can make it Rockford, you can make it any ways.

418
00:26:19,356 --> 00:26:21,996
Speaker 1: So then when he then when he passed away, I

419
00:26:22,076 --> 00:26:25,996
Speaker 1: got an email from from him and his family or whatever.

420
00:26:26,156 --> 00:26:29,876
Speaker 1: It's like, we'd like invite to his memorial service. So

421
00:26:29,916 --> 00:26:33,436
Speaker 1: I went flew to England and went to this thing,

422
00:26:33,476 --> 00:26:37,236
Speaker 1: and uh I go, I said, family sider in the

423
00:26:37,276 --> 00:26:41,036
Speaker 1: back of my invitation. And so I sat there. I'm like,

424
00:26:41,996 --> 00:26:45,956
Speaker 1: right up front behind me, it's Elvis Costello, here's Genes Inspector,

425
00:26:45,996 --> 00:26:48,956
Speaker 1: there's Pink Floyd, all these you knows all these famous

426
00:26:48,956 --> 00:26:51,836
Speaker 1: people and they're way way behind me in this place.

427
00:26:52,476 --> 00:26:55,516
Speaker 1: And uh. And as we file out to leave and

428
00:26:55,636 --> 00:26:59,356
Speaker 1: go and talk to Yoko, Sean and Julian because they

429
00:26:59,356 --> 00:27:01,876
Speaker 1: were right ahead of me, and we talked for about

430
00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:05,036
Speaker 1: a second, and then all of a sudden, somebody comes

431
00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:09,276
Speaker 1: up to me. Hello, Rick, I said, hello, Paulo. You

432
00:27:09,316 --> 00:27:13,956
Speaker 1: know paul the guitar he plays I got for him too,

433
00:27:14,356 --> 00:27:17,716
Speaker 1: not not that far, but yeah, yeah, that's the left

434
00:27:17,716 --> 00:27:21,596
Speaker 1: handed lest Polity plays. So I had one. I was like,

435
00:27:22,036 --> 00:27:23,836
Speaker 1: what am I doing with this thing? It's like it's

436
00:27:24,836 --> 00:27:28,436
Speaker 1: a piece of art, but I have no I can't

437
00:27:28,436 --> 00:27:31,036
Speaker 1: play it. So I said McCartney should have it, you know.

438
00:27:31,476 --> 00:27:34,116
Speaker 1: And then I said that in a guitar magazine and

439
00:27:34,956 --> 00:27:40,076
Speaker 1: a few months later and he ended up getting it. Wow. Yeah.

440
00:27:40,116 --> 00:27:42,916
Speaker 1: But later that year, after you recorded the album with

441
00:27:43,076 --> 00:27:47,116
Speaker 1: George Martin, you worked on Double Fantasy with John What

442
00:27:47,196 --> 00:27:49,716
Speaker 1: was that like? Oh, it's terrific. You know, It's like

443
00:27:50,316 --> 00:27:53,516
Speaker 1: I treated it like a guy to guy. I did

444
00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:56,316
Speaker 1: you know? Musician a musician? You know, he's one of

445
00:27:56,356 --> 00:27:59,276
Speaker 1: my favorites. You know, what can you say? Well, I

446
00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:01,276
Speaker 1: see I was asked by Jack to do it to

447
00:28:01,716 --> 00:28:04,796
Speaker 1: rock up this stuff that John was doing. If you

448
00:28:04,876 --> 00:28:08,396
Speaker 1: listen to the original Double Fantasy, it's like it sounds

449
00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:12,916
Speaker 1: like a lounge man. I mean, it's too produced. So

450
00:28:12,956 --> 00:28:16,316
Speaker 1: Earl Slick learned my my riffs and did them. But

451
00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:19,556
Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's not you know, I like

452
00:28:19,636 --> 00:28:31,716
Speaker 1: to do this. You know, it's like the way it

453
00:28:31,836 --> 00:28:37,316
Speaker 1: is on the record is you know, it's like my

454
00:28:37,436 --> 00:28:39,476
Speaker 1: version was heavier. And then I came up with this.

455
00:28:41,756 --> 00:28:48,596
Speaker 1: I came up with the riff. So when I was

456
00:28:48,636 --> 00:28:52,556
Speaker 1: doing it, here's Buddy and Jack in the in the booth.

457
00:28:52,556 --> 00:28:54,436
Speaker 1: When I was playing the guitar. After we had done

458
00:28:54,436 --> 00:28:58,076
Speaker 1: the initial track, John says, God, I wish I would

459
00:28:58,116 --> 00:29:03,396
Speaker 1: have had Rick on Cold Turkey, Clapton choked up or

460
00:29:03,436 --> 00:29:06,836
Speaker 1: Clapton froze. You could only play the one riff. Wow,

461
00:29:07,036 --> 00:29:09,836
Speaker 1: that's a high compliment. So how how were they to

462
00:29:09,876 --> 00:29:11,836
Speaker 1: work with? How were John? And they were great? They

463
00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:13,916
Speaker 1: were great. You know, it's like they were they were

464
00:29:13,996 --> 00:29:16,956
Speaker 1: terrific in the musician it's like it's just cool. And

465
00:29:17,036 --> 00:29:21,156
Speaker 1: he was a great rhythm player too, and I'm a

466
00:29:21,196 --> 00:29:23,756
Speaker 1: good rhythm player. And it's like together it just kind

467
00:29:23,756 --> 00:29:27,556
Speaker 1: of worked out and it's like we enjoyed each other's company,

468
00:29:27,636 --> 00:29:31,556
Speaker 1: and I'd hope to take him out guitar shopping after

469
00:29:31,956 --> 00:29:34,396
Speaker 1: after the sessions, not that day, but you know, I

470
00:29:34,436 --> 00:29:36,636
Speaker 1: gave him one of my guitars because I said, we're

471
00:29:36,636 --> 00:29:39,916
Speaker 1: going to Japan the next day and after the session,

472
00:29:39,956 --> 00:29:42,556
Speaker 1: and I'll get it back later. I got it back

473
00:29:42,556 --> 00:29:47,276
Speaker 1: three years after he was murdered. Yeah, that's very sad. Yeah,

474
00:29:47,476 --> 00:29:51,236
Speaker 1: So into the eighties with with Cheap Trick, and I

475
00:29:51,276 --> 00:29:53,276
Speaker 1: still can't quite believe this, but you guys had this

476
00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:56,316
Speaker 1: run of great hits and great albums, but then your

477
00:29:56,356 --> 00:29:59,236
Speaker 1: record label decided that you had to like bring in

478
00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:04,236
Speaker 1: professional writers. Yeah, that beat up my ego pretty emotion.

479
00:30:04,316 --> 00:30:07,316
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, we weren't gonna we weren't

480
00:30:07,356 --> 00:30:09,956
Speaker 1: somebody else, and we don't try to make us into

481
00:30:09,996 --> 00:30:14,356
Speaker 1: somebody else. And we didn't have a label or a

482
00:30:14,476 --> 00:30:18,356
Speaker 1: producer or a management that stuck up for us, you know,

483
00:30:18,996 --> 00:30:22,476
Speaker 1: you know, we we we've always done other people's material,

484
00:30:22,556 --> 00:30:24,556
Speaker 1: like we did the first album, did Terry Reid song,

485
00:30:24,636 --> 00:30:29,676
Speaker 1: and we did Roy Woods songs. You know, Beatles, you

486
00:30:29,756 --> 00:30:31,916
Speaker 1: did Beatles stuff too, you know, but that was our

487
00:30:31,996 --> 00:30:35,396
Speaker 1: own picking. You know. It's like and here we got.

488
00:30:35,596 --> 00:30:37,996
Speaker 1: Now we're doing something that's not written by us as like,

489
00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:41,636
Speaker 1: it just didn't make sense to me. It still doesn't,

490
00:30:41,676 --> 00:30:43,756
Speaker 1: but there you go. Did you have to co write

491
00:30:43,756 --> 00:30:46,316
Speaker 1: with them or these were I told wrote some songs.

492
00:30:46,356 --> 00:30:48,876
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not opposed to that, but this was

493
00:30:48,916 --> 00:30:53,396
Speaker 1: already sign seal delivered. Yeah, before we had the Flame.

494
00:30:53,516 --> 00:30:56,796
Speaker 1: When that came out, we did they We did a

495
00:30:56,836 --> 00:31:00,636
Speaker 1: record with Todd Rundgren next position, pleasing on that. They

496
00:31:00,636 --> 00:31:03,636
Speaker 1: had us doing a Motors song dance No no I,

497
00:31:03,796 --> 00:31:07,476
Speaker 1: no way, Bob, Bob jesus. So are you the kind

498
00:31:07,476 --> 00:31:09,716
Speaker 1: of guy that just walks around with here iPhone and

499
00:31:09,796 --> 00:31:11,876
Speaker 1: if you've get an idea, you just record it. So

500
00:31:11,956 --> 00:31:15,236
Speaker 1: you've got these little snatches of ideas, got tons of

501
00:31:15,836 --> 00:31:19,916
Speaker 1: tons of bad ideas. But I've always kind of done that.

502
00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:23,316
Speaker 1: I mean I've written stuff down. It's like my one

503
00:31:23,716 --> 00:31:24,996
Speaker 1: is like in the middle of the night, wake up,

504
00:31:25,076 --> 00:31:28,596
Speaker 1: you write something. Oh man, this is something here. Then

505
00:31:28,636 --> 00:31:31,236
Speaker 1: you wake up is chocolate milk? You know, what are

506
00:31:31,236 --> 00:31:33,716
Speaker 1: the uh? You know, it's like how did that turn in?

507
00:31:34,156 --> 00:31:37,356
Speaker 1: Why was that important enough to write it down? So

508
00:31:37,396 --> 00:31:39,876
Speaker 1: there's there's usually something there. So I mean I've got

509
00:31:39,916 --> 00:31:42,676
Speaker 1: tons of that kind of stuff from my wife says

510
00:31:43,156 --> 00:31:48,516
Speaker 1: the F word finish, you know, finish it. We're writing songs,

511
00:31:48,516 --> 00:31:51,436
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, like a producer would come say something

512
00:31:51,436 --> 00:31:54,396
Speaker 1: to me like, well, what's the third verse? Like I said,

513
00:31:54,396 --> 00:31:56,796
Speaker 1: what do you like the first one? Before I spend

514
00:31:56,836 --> 00:31:59,676
Speaker 1: the time to write the third one? You know it?

515
00:32:00,716 --> 00:32:03,076
Speaker 1: You know, that goes into the arranging all stuff like

516
00:32:03,076 --> 00:32:08,516
Speaker 1: in Surrender starts off at B flat and then the

517
00:32:08,556 --> 00:32:12,476
Speaker 1: first verse and second verse there would be third verses

518
00:32:12,516 --> 00:32:16,716
Speaker 1: and c modulates up. That's an arrangement, you know. It's

519
00:32:16,756 --> 00:32:18,876
Speaker 1: not really so much to the song. You love doing

520
00:32:18,916 --> 00:32:22,756
Speaker 1: those kind of modulations and songs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool. Yeah,

521
00:32:22,916 --> 00:32:25,796
Speaker 1: it's better than us going na na na hey hey

522
00:32:26,076 --> 00:32:28,596
Speaker 1: yeah a lot of those songs are a good song

523
00:32:28,716 --> 00:32:31,396
Speaker 1: turn into junk and you have too much nana hey.

524
00:32:32,516 --> 00:32:35,236
Speaker 1: All right, what's been great talking to you? Well? Cool, great,

525
00:32:35,316 --> 00:32:38,596
Speaker 1: great album. I hope everybody listens. It's just a lot

526
00:32:38,636 --> 00:32:44,196
Speaker 1: of fun. Well, thank you very much. Thanks to Rick

527
00:32:44,276 --> 00:32:46,316
Speaker 1: Nielsen for running through some of the highlights of his

528
00:32:46,436 --> 00:32:49,196
Speaker 1: career with us to Hear in Another World and our

529
00:32:49,236 --> 00:32:52,556
Speaker 1: favorite cheap Trick tracks Head to Broken Record Podcast got

530
00:32:53,276 --> 00:32:55,156
Speaker 1: where we also have a playlist of some of our

531
00:32:55,156 --> 00:32:58,356
Speaker 1: favorite power pop songs. You should have subscribe to our

532
00:32:58,356 --> 00:33:01,756
Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcasts.

533
00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:04,876
Speaker 1: We can find all of our new episodes. You can

534
00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:08,236
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is

535
00:33:08,236 --> 00:33:14,076
Speaker 1: produced helpfully Rose Jason Gambrel, Martinozzalez, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer

536
00:33:14,116 --> 00:33:18,116
Speaker 1: Sanchez with engineering help from Nick Chafee. Our executive producer

537
00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:20,836
Speaker 1: is Miola bet. If you love this show and others

538
00:33:20,836 --> 00:33:24,356
Speaker 1: from Pushkin Industries, consider becoming a Pushnick. Pushnick is a

539
00:33:24,356 --> 00:33:28,596
Speaker 1: podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free listening

540
00:33:28,876 --> 00:33:32,276
Speaker 1: for four ninety nine amus look for Pushnick exclusively on

541
00:33:32,316 --> 00:33:37,036
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts subscriptions. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

542
00:33:37,236 --> 00:33:39,876
Speaker 1: Are the music by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Mitchell