1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to you Stuff you Should 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: Know from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: uh stiffing on his laqui uh mineral water and um 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: this isn't even a sponsored by location. Done this like 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: two or three times? Yeah, I agree, call us uh. 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: And since you put the two of us a couple 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: of microphones in an ice cold can of refreshing Laquais 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: mineral water together, you have something called Stuff you Should Know. 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: It's a podcast. It's a podcast. I'm looking to see 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: who makes this actually. Oh no, I thought I was 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: gonna say, like Coca Cola and small let No, it's 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: a Sundance beverage company. Oh yeah, they're huge for Minnesota. 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: I think that's perfect. That is a perfect sponsor for stuff. 16 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: You know, a little guy that's producing a great product. Agreed. 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Uh So, Chuck, I've got an intro today. Stop criticizing me. Um. So. 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Very recently, a trio of Brits economists, British economists, they're 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: like walking saltines. Very exciting. Um. But anyway, these guys 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: did something pretty cool. They studied bank robberies, and their 21 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: study was published in a journal called Significance. It's actually 22 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: kind of a cool journal. It takes statistics and applies 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: it to real world stuff, so it's an interesting statistics journal. 24 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: If there is such a thing, um, And if there is, 25 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: this is it. And what these guys found was that 26 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: bank robbery is actually a really terrible way to make 27 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: a living. Yes, I would agree with that morally, economically 28 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: it's a terrible way to make a living too, the right. Yes, 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: they looked at they looked at a lot of variables, 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: like the number of people involved, and they found that 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: the bigger the gang, the more um, the bigger the 32 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: hall I guess. But it also meant that's one extra 33 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: mouth to divide up amongst unless you're like one of 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: those bankrupers that just kills everybody afterward. Yeah, you don't 35 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: want to get in bed with one of those guys 36 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: like Ben Affleck, or like in Heat, when there are 37 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: a lot of killing afterward. In Heat and in the 38 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: town ben Affleck's a recent heist movie, a lot of 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: killing going on. I was gonna let that one walk by, 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: but you brought it up twice. I enjoyed it. Um. 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: Oh really uh and okay, So anyway, Um, there's a 42 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: lot of variables involved. But what they found is, no 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: matter what, in the u K, you can make off 44 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: with about thirty one graham. That's not bad, per yes, 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: and on average that's what that's what the take was. 46 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: So in the UK it's not so bad. Um. But 47 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, thirty one grand, what are you 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: gonna do with that? Yeah? I mean, if you want 49 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: to live the high life, you gotta rob like four 50 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: or five banks a year easy, right or right? Okay 51 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: or um. If you're in the US, you have to 52 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: rob it more than that. So the UK suffers about 53 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: a hundred and six bank robbers a year. In the 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: US there's twelve thousand, and of those twelve thousand, the 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: average take is like four grand. They only have how 56 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: many a year. That's they have really stiff, stiff gun laws, 57 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: and I think that probably determs bank robbery because you 58 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: kind of have a gun or a note in your 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: pocket and that says something. Well, these guys figured out 60 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: that the presence of a firearm increased your take um. 61 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: But anyway, so forty bucks that's not much at all now, 62 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: and about a third of bank robberies I guess in 63 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: both countries yield nothing zero zero. So it's a lot 64 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: of hard work, a lot of risk, for very little gain. 65 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: The real money is in white collar crime. Oh yes, 66 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: you want to make some cash quick, maybe one good heist. 67 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: It's gonna set you up for the rest of your 68 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: life and even if you're caught. Even if you're caught, 69 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: the chances are you will have a mild, if any 70 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: penalty leviaging against you. White collars the way to go. Yeah, 71 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: we're talking guys who um tell people that they are 72 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: financial investors and get friends and family and uh parents 73 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: of the little league that they coach to give them 74 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: nine hundred grand. Um. There's other guys who just have 75 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: little penny stock companies that pump up their um stock 76 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: prospects called stock touting, and um dump all of their shares. UM. 77 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: That's investor fraud. They make hundreds of thousands, if not 78 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: millions of dollars. It's where the real money is, and 79 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: historically speaking, it has really low risk even if you're called. 80 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: All right, so we're endorsing white collar crime. We're not 81 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: endorsing it. I was being facetious. I thought you met 82 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: up with white collar crime in no. No. As a 83 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: matter of fact, it's going down. The times are definitely changing. 84 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: There's a big struggle going on right now is to 85 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: figuring out the just the right amount of punishment with 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: white collar crime, because there's a lot of factors involved. 87 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: It's a lot different from blue collar crime e g. 88 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: Stealing a car, robbing a bank. There's a lot of 89 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: differences that differentiated. Let's separate the two, um And one 90 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: of those now is the the sentencing forum is probably stiffer, 91 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: which is a total reversal from how it used to 92 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: be before. And they've also closed a lot of the 93 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: club beds down that got so much press. Yes, well 94 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: they've they've changed them. They're still there, they just are changed. Well, 95 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: a lot of more shut down like period. Yeah, just 96 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: to ship them to real federal penitentiary penitentiaries. Penitentiaries. Uh. 97 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: That reminded me of a word that will definitely be 98 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: hearing at some point in this podcast. It's oh yeah, 99 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: because that's definitely white collar. Part of the problem with 100 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: white collar crime, Josh, as you know from reading this 101 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: is that uh um, it's hard to come up with 102 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: an exact definition of what constitutes it. So that's why 103 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: they have a hard time getting great statistics on punishment 104 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: and finds levied and how many of they're catching. But 105 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with non violent crime that typically involves 106 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: and you have to sit things like typically because it's 107 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of all over the map. Typically involves um deceit 108 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: and fraud given by a perpetrator because of their occupation. Yeah, 109 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: And for that reason, a lot of times it's called 110 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: occupational um crime. Yeah. Uh. And if you look at 111 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: it through that view, which is a very broad view 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: of white collar crime, it's not just the exacts and 113 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: the three thousand dollar suits who are perpetrating this. It's 114 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: the guy who's stealing pencils from work, Yeah, or violent 115 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: especially somebody asked him if you did it, and he 116 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: says no, And it's because you are You're You're granted 117 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: this opportunity through your occupation. I would call that petty theft. 118 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: It's but I'm saying, like a very very broad definition 119 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: of white collar crime that that definitely counts. But for 120 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: the most part, when you think of white collar you 121 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: think about the CEO as you think about investor fraud, embezzlement, 122 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff exactly. Uh, feds have been after 123 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: in the United States, uh, in earnest since nineteen seventy four, 124 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: as far as a a dedicated division the FBI. Yeah, 125 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: and that's because the NIX and I read and then uh, 126 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: despite that, about three hundred billion dollars a year. And 127 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: that's a pretty rough estimates, the two estimate. So let's 128 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: talk about a few ways you can commit white color crime. Yeah, 129 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: because the definition you gave us like beautiful, it's pretty good. Um, 130 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: and there are some that just like I said, investment 131 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: fraud or embezzlement or just prototypical white collar crime. Insider 132 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: trading is one that's a big one which falls under 133 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: securities fraud, right Uh yeah, I mean it's a type 134 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: of securities fraud. So basically insider trading. We've I swear 135 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: we've done something on this. I don't think so it 136 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: must have been in our Fenian Freddie presentation then and 137 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: then we studied a lot of this stuff. Yeah, and 138 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: I thought we'd done a podcast and I guess not. 139 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: But insider trading is essentially like, um, let's say that 140 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: you and I find out that Discovery had an awesome quarter, 141 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: and so we go and buy a bunch of Discovery 142 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: stock for nothing, and then it just shoots through the 143 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: roof after the stock price comes out. That's inside of trading. Sure, 144 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: that's using private knowledge about a publicly traded company for 145 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: your own game. That's a no no we to other people. 146 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: That would count as well. And then Stewart, yeah, that 147 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: they took part and then they would be UH insider 148 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: traders as well, exactly. And it works the opposite way 149 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: as well, Like if you find out that there's a 150 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: lot of terrible information, terrible information is going to make 151 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: your stock drop that you sell before that information becomes public, 152 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: you're in trouble, big trouble. Securities fraud, which UM insider 153 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: trading is kind of like that UM, but it is 154 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: also manipulated and cooking the book keeper that term of 155 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: your own company too. Maybe undervalue UM a stock before 156 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: it goes public or I mean, there's all different variations, 157 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: but it basically involves manipulating numbers in a dishonest way, right, 158 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: that pumping up scheme where it's stocked outing. There's that's 159 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: all securities fraud. UM and then there's anti trust violations 160 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: for another good one that this has been kind of 161 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: big lately. So, um, Google is supposedly hogging the YouTube metadata, 162 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: which is preventing Microsoft from making a decent app for it. 163 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah and um and Google's like, well, it's proprietary or whatever. 164 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you gotta kind of have 165 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: to share that. That's they're alleging an antitrust violation. Companies 166 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: kind of police one another with that. And then also 167 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: price fixing is a big one, which is like the 168 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: opposite of companies policing one another. It's collusion between companies 169 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: and like Apple and book publishers, um fixing the prices 170 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: of e books allegedly has been going on. Yeah, yeah, man, 171 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: it's going on all over the place. That it's it's 172 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: a dirty, dirty, dirty world bribery one of the oldest 173 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: tricks in the book. Um. Obviously that's involves some sort 174 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: of a payoff or a kickback in exchange for uh 175 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: whatever information. Um, I get the bid, my company gets 176 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: your bid with this government job, and I get a 177 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: little kickback or I give you a little kickback rather um, 178 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: any kind of maybe favorable decision that can influence your company. Yeah, 179 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: a little little grease in the palm going on. Here's 180 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: three high quality frozen steaks. Please consider it, and you 181 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: say consider granted. And within each of these steaks is 182 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: a one million dollar bill. It's not even an it 183 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,599 Speaker 1: doesn't even exist. What frozen steaks with money in a 184 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: million dollar bill? Okay, we know about frozen deutsch marks. 185 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: Somebody sent us a dollar. By the way, I want 186 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: the dollar. We'll we'll give you fifty cents, right, I 187 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: guess it's thirty three in the third we gotta give 188 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: Jerry or cut. Don't go there, we'll talk about it later. 189 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: Embezzlement Office Space. Everyone's seen the movie Office Space, that 190 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: little program they had to like shave a sin or 191 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: something off of a transaction. That's embezzlement. They were given 192 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: the opportunity through trust, with books, with accounting, they basically 193 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: add access to the money and skim them off the top. 194 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: Which we have done a podcast on schemes um So 195 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: basically all of the those are all the stars. There's 196 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: also other ones like m espionage, industrial espionage, corporate SPI, 197 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: white collar. Remember the lady who tried to sell Pepsi's 198 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: secret to coke? Yeah, that was pretty hackney. No Coke's 199 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: secret to PEPSI because she was like, wait right here 200 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: she was, and they went and called the cops. She 201 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: didn't do a real good job, but she was surprised. UM. 202 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: Environmental law violations like dumping toxic waste. Yeah, covering that 203 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: up like Aaron Brockovich style. UM. One of the things 204 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: they point out in here, which is when it comes 205 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: to things like your little office space scheme that you 206 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: just touted. UM. A lot of times, it's difficult to 207 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: imagine victims. Like in office space, they think no one's 208 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: gonna miss a penny. Is a huge company, So you 209 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: commit these crimes without realizing that someone has hurt somewhere 210 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: down the line. If you dump your stock, your company 211 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: stock that you know is about the tank. And I'm 212 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: not saying it's understandable, but if you've like worked your 213 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: whole career investing in this company with your four own 214 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: k you know it's about to tank, You're like, man, 215 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: I need to sell this or else I'm done for. 216 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: My family's done for. You don't think about the people 217 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: buying the stock, they're the victims. No, It's absolutely true, 218 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: And I mean, like you are being pawned. You're pawning 219 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: your problem off on somebody else. But I think you 220 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: paint a really really excellent scenario, Like you can in 221 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: some cases feel bad for the white collar criminal um, 222 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: especially if it's just some average Joe who's worried about 223 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: is for a one case um or in the case 224 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: of Enron, you don't feel bad for the upper dudes. 225 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: You feel bad for everyone in that company that got defrauded, right, 226 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: But they were strictly victims. They didn't they didn't turn 227 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: around and like try to dump the stocks. But that 228 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: that's a very visible case of like screwing over your 229 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: own employees. But you make a good point, like even 230 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: if the even if the criminal is sympathetic, there still 231 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: is a victim, even if it's just some amorphous trader 232 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: they'll never meet, even if the victim is some like 233 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: hedge fund manager. It's really tough. There's like a really 234 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: weird spectrum here. There's like I don't know if it's 235 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: a Bell curve or like the UV spectrum, who knows. 236 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: But there's sympathies like placed in different spot sympathies and 237 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: anti antipathies placed along this this depending on who did 238 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: what and what they gained from it and what their 239 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: motives were agreed, because you gotta also have credit card 240 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: fraud and computer and mail fraud and counterfeiting and things 241 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: like that, like you know the Nigerian email scams. That's 242 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: white collar. But and they're in the same boat as 243 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: like ken Ley and Jeff Skillings exactly same scummy crooks. 244 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: Or let's say you commit a little credit card fraud 245 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: and you or bankruptcy fraud and you're dislike, does it 246 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: be easy way to get out of my debts? Or 247 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: I just say someone stole my credit card. It's very 248 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: easy there to not envision a a victim because it's 249 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: it's Chase Manhattan Bank, and like they're gonna notice. But 250 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: what happens is they raise the rates on you and me, 251 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, everyone across the board is 252 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: paying more money for stuff. Yes, that is that is true. 253 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: That is very true, and that is I think everybody 254 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: should probably. I think a good companion piece that occurred 255 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: to me is to go listen to our wide corporations 256 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: have the same rights as you. One of the fundamental 257 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: flaws of UM corporate policy is that you serve your 258 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: shareholders first. Like you need to adhere to the law, 259 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: but really, ultimately, like anything you can do to serve 260 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: your shareholders is your mandate as a as a corporate governor. 261 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: Um that includes keeping the profit margin as high as possible, 262 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: which you're not gonna go to your your shareholders and 263 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: be like, hey, we're making enough money. We took kind 264 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: of a hit, but we're still making a ton of profit, 265 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: so we'll just take a little hit this year. No, 266 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: it's where we took a hit, so we're gonna fire people. 267 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: However you reconcile that, I mean, that's your own personal beliefs, 268 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: like what what you feel about that? But that is 269 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: reality as far as business goes, Right, there's fraud, there's 270 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: adjustments to the fraud, absorbing the fraud, and it's the 271 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: corporation trying to get as lean as possible. Yeah, they're 272 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: not going to take the hit for that. They're not 273 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: gonna say, oh, well, a bunch of people defaulted on 274 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: their credit cards this year. I guess we'll just have 275 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: a bad year. And I know in reality that's how 276 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: it works, but it's I just find it disingenuous to 277 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: be like, well, everybody suffers, you know, like people lose 278 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: their jobs because of thought. It's like there's a there's 279 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: a point b in there that that has to be 280 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: held accountable to some degree. Well, which is your own 281 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: freaking ethical code of conduct? And like, how about not 282 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: doing that because it's the wrong thing to do. No, 283 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: but I'm saying, like there's an institution that's absorbing the 284 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: hit and then turn around firing this poor guy. Yeah, exactly. 285 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: It's just it's tough because I came across a word 286 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: when they were describing white collar crime giving a definition 287 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: of it, and they said, victims colon diffuse. You don't 288 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: meet the person that the victim passes along the hit 289 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: to other people. It's a big it's nebulous. And even 290 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: if they're raised rates by like a quarter of a 291 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: percentage point, or you're paying an extra two dollars as 292 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: a consumer a year, it's like it's still not right. Yeah, 293 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: you know, it's not right all over the place. So 294 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: where did this come from? Uh, Josh, it came It 295 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: sounds like it came from a cold wool delivery boy. 296 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: I want to know more about this. Was this dude 297 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: just cold or did he really steal a lot of wool? 298 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: So you're talking about the carriers. The Carrier's case of 299 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: fourteen seventy three, it's the first um white collar trial, yes, 300 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: um and and it resulted in the first white collar 301 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: law in fifteenth century England. And this wool transporter was 302 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: given a bunch of wool and said, hey, take this 303 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: wool to this person, and it was his job. So 304 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: he decided to instead just keep the wool for himself 305 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: for his own use. So he looked into this more. Yeah, 306 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: I thought he might have been like cold on his 307 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: journey and said, you know, I'm gonna keep some of 308 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: this wool. Now, he kept some of the wool. He 309 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: I think he kept all of it, but somebody gave 310 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: it to him. He's like, thanks, chump, and he was. 311 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: But the key is, and this is something that has 312 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: has woven into the history of white collar crime. What 313 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: he did was not illegal at the time. The law 314 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: that was enacted as a result of the Carrier's case 315 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: was they were saying, Okay, this isn't this isn't illegal, 316 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: but it's obviously there's a huge problem with this, so 317 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: we're going to create a law right that outlaws this 318 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: act so people can't do it anymore. Good point, and 319 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: basically that's what happened. Well, that's kind of what happens 320 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: with every law. I guess, someone commits it first and 321 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: then someone says, hey, maybe we shouldn't do that. Yeah, yeah, 322 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: I guess. But in this case, especially like uh, the 323 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution in the West, obviously you started getting these 324 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: larger corporations and all of a sudden, things like monopolies 325 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: and price fixing and employee uh safety and all these 326 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: things come into effect for the first time. So that's 327 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: sort of when it was really born, and when they 328 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: started saying, hey, we need to look at something called 329 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: to trust. Yeah. Again, like monopolies were not illegal, but 330 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: when a company bought up all of its competitors and said, oh, 331 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: suddenly the price for your groceries like through the roof, 332 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: where else you gonna go, it wasn't illegal. But the 333 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: the people of the world started screaming and governments finally responded, 334 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: And it was really the US that first had the 335 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: real first solid response in the Sherman Anti Trust Act 336 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: in like the eighteen seventies maybe I think nine, named 337 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: for John Senator John Sherman, Ohio Republican dude Chairman of 338 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: the Senate's Finance Senate to Finance Committee, which I didn't 339 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: know they even had way back then. I forgot didn't either, 340 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: but I mean it seems like a basic committee there. 341 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: So this is interesting. And that it was voted on. 342 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: It won by vote of in the Senate one in 343 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: the House by two forty two to zero, so there 344 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: was one dude that didn't vote for it. And then 345 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: I think twenty five years later when they came up 346 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: with the Clayton Anti Trust Actor, really put some punch 347 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: into the Sherman Act. It was two seventy seven to 348 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: seventy four and forty six to sixteen. So in that 349 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: twenty four years it sounds like maybe things got slightly 350 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: corrupt here and there. Well it wasn't that it was that. Well, 351 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: maybe it was, but there was also some real problems 352 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: with the Sherman Act. It was really vague. It basically 353 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: said like now from here fourth all um anti competitive 354 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: corporate measures are illegal, and then it left it to 355 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: the courts to decide what was what, and the courts 356 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: weren't really in the mood to enforce it, so it 357 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: went largely unenforced. Although American Tobacco Company and Standard Oil 358 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: like two of the biggest companies in the country were 359 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 1: dissolved under the Sherman Act, Standard Oil big time. Imagine that. 360 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: Like imagine going to a company now and saying like, hey, Apple, 361 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: you're just too big, so we're gonna dissolve you into 362 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: thirty one companies. We have all these federal regulators here 363 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: and they're gonna come in and look at everything, and 364 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: that dissolve you into different companies. Sorry, that's what they did. Okay, 365 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: even still it didn't have enough tea, so they came 366 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: up with the Clayton Anty Trust Act, and then that 367 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: one really spelled things out, like, um, you couldn't do 368 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: price discrimination anymore, which if you were black in America 369 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: during the Gym Crow era, price discrimination was mind boggling. 370 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you walk into a store if you're allowed 371 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: in there to begin with, and they'll just make up 372 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: whatever price they want. It's it was really I'm reading this, 373 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: um consumers in an America book, and it's at this 374 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: point now is really just this blemish on American history. 375 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: I mean, like slavery wasn't bad enough to like have 376 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: slavery light through the Jim Crow era. It's just disgusting. Um, Okay, 377 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: so there was no price discrimination allegedly, corporate mergers were outlawed. Yeah, um. 378 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: And then interlocking boards where you have like competitive companies 379 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: but the same people on the board of each Right, 380 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: you can't have that. And then also elusive contracts where 381 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: it's like hey, home Depot, you can sell our um 382 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: weed whackers, but you can't tell anybody else's those contracts 383 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: are out right. They do stuff like that now though, right, 384 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: maybe not exclusively, but they carry lives. They do not 385 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: limited number of brands, corporate mergers, interlocking boards, exclusive contracts, 386 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: all that stuff one a way, it all got chipped away. 387 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 1: It's just I mean this, this, this act is like 388 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: not in forts anymore. Basically, Well, that's one things that 389 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: bugs me about like grocery or actually the big box 390 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: hardware stores. Grocery shopping. You you only have access to 391 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: what they who they have partnered with, right, whether it's 392 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: your potato chip that you want or your weed whacker 393 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: that you want. It's true, and most of the big 394 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: box stores also have exclusive contracts the other way. It's like, yeah, 395 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: we'll sell your weed whacker, but you can't sell it 396 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: no one else can. So it's like a real gamble, 397 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: I understand, like sign on to one of these giant corporations. Well, 398 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: that's one in the Walmart effect. That was one of 399 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: the things I think they used to. It's like a 400 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: tent company or an awning company, and like this mom 401 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: and pop awning company all of a sudden gets a 402 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: Walmart contract and they're like, sweet, they answered all our prayers. 403 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: They ordered like thirty thousand and these they ordered thirty thousand, 404 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: They opened up like three new buildings. Hi are all 405 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: these employees. And then the next year they come back 406 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: and say, we want thirty thousand more, but we're gonna 407 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: pay you about less. And you've already bought the buildings 408 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: and even you know, invested in the in the materials 409 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: and the people, and all of a sudden you're screwed. 410 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: You know one thing that I've long thought and I'm 411 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: gonna totally take flak for this, but I still think 412 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: it's worth saying, like you here, like, well, that's just business. 413 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: I feel that any any institution where like morally reprehensible 414 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: acts can just be you know, off handedly dismissed as 415 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: a matter of course of that institution is inherently fought. 416 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: There's an inherent problem with it. Yeah, that's not okay, 417 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: Like we don't just go, well, that's just murder, you know, 418 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: or well that's just stealing, you know, Welcome to earth. Human. No, 419 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: we have moral and legal guidelines that we follow, and 420 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: business and corporations have so so long stood outside of 421 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: these things that it's just it always bugs me when 422 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: it's just like, what are you gonna do? Yeah, I 423 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: don't like that. So sorry, I'm off my soap I 424 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: agree completely. Well, I'm off of my Tide brand soapbox. 425 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: Well said, um. So, things are kicking along here in 426 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: the industrial West. Corporations are getting larger, and all of 427 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: a sudden, these crimes start happening, and something called a 428 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: muckraker in the nineteenth than early twentieth century comes about. 429 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: And I didn't realize a muckraker was exclusively a journalist. Yeah, 430 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: it's for an investigative journalist. I thought it would was 431 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: anyone raking muck um. But it's specifically a journalist who 432 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: basically early on said you know what, there's bad stuff 433 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: going on see and I'm gonna expose your Oh really, 434 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: and he wrote the Jungle Change. Of course, I mean 435 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: the FDA basically came about because of that investigation that 436 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: he conducted. Well, muckrakers raked a lot of muck and 437 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: caused a lot of problems in these companies. And um, 438 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: one of the things that came about because of the 439 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: muckraking were, you know, things like the Clayton Act that's 440 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: exactly right, exposing all this stuff exactly and things like that, 441 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: the A Federal Regulations consumer protections. The muckrakers basically stirred 442 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: up public sentiment like hey, don't be idiots, like this 443 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: stuff's going on, and a lot of people said, well, 444 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: it's not illegal. And then unfortunately there were guys like 445 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: um E. A. Ross who was a criminologist and a sociologist, 446 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: and he started really kind of looking into this and said, 447 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: hey man, these people might not be criminal, but let's 448 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: all them criminal OIDs. Like that was the coining the 449 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: coin for people who, especially in business, carried out these 450 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: terrible acts that weren't illegal. He argued that even though 451 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: it's not illegal, they're causing ill and these people are 452 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: still responsible for him. So make a law that outlaws 453 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: at dummies. And he inspired a guy named E. H. Sutherland. Okay, 454 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: he came before Sutherland. Yeah, he was at the Ross 455 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: was working at the time of the muckrakers, and then 456 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: Sutherland came about twenty years later. Yeah. Southerland coined the 457 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: term actually white collar crime in nineteen thirty nine, and 458 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: he was a criminologist and sociologist, and he pretty much 459 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: he had a broader definition that basically it was the 460 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: high society and not the lower class at all committing 461 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: these crimes, which nowadays he can't really say that because 462 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,239 Speaker 1: anyone can get a stock tip commit in. You know, 463 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: it happens all the time across all spectrums of the 464 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: class system. But Sutherland's point was, and he wrote a 465 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: book called white Collar Crime, UM. His point was that 466 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: there was a huge bias in the United States, UM 467 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: where the where law enforcement in the courts leaned heavily 468 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: on the working class crimes and just basically ignored the 469 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: crimes of the upper class and said this is not okay, Like, um, 470 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: if a guy is gonna steal a thousand dollars from 471 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: a cash register with no gun or anything like that, 472 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: Like there are other factors, but let's just say a 473 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: guy steals a thousand dollars from a cash register and 474 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: he's poor, and a guy steals a thousand dollars from 475 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: an investor and he's rich. That's they should be treated equally, 476 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: and they're not. And that's what Sutherland's point was. And 477 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: he was sup first dude to really bring this to light, 478 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: wasn't he. Yeah, well, Ross kind of started to, but 479 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: Sutherland was very well received. It was well received in 480 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: certain corners, but there were also certain flaws pointed out 481 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: by people over the years. Um One of the things 482 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: mentioned the articles said that he failed to distinguish illegal 483 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: crime from deviant mere deviant behavior, like apparently his his 484 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: whole premise was like you're into donkeys, you're a white 485 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: collar criminal exactly. And the other thing I mentioned too 486 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: was that he pretty much said it was anyone like 487 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: any upper class nonviolent crime, right, And that's definitely evolved, 488 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: and I think fairly. I think you can be working class, 489 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: you can be business class if you like. That's a big, 490 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: big part of white collar crimes definition is your opportunity 491 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: arises because of the trust that's granted to you through 492 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: your occupation. Yeah, even if you're a lower level employee, 493 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: you still may have access. Like the lady who wanted 494 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: to sell the Coke secret. She wasn't like a CEO. No, 495 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: she was an admin I believe, Yeah, exactly. Um, so 496 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: there's a there's one thing that that like you said, 497 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: they like to shoot a hole in Sutherland's theory that 498 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: or they say his definition is too broad because he 499 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: did include behavior that's not illegal. But it's a very 500 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: legitimate point to say, you kind of have to because 501 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: if not, then we wouldn't have had the Sherman an 502 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: Anti Trust Act, we wouldn't have had the Clayton next, 503 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have had um, you know, the FDA, all 504 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: of these things that uh that the carrier's case, he 505 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: would have gotten off scott free, and what he did 506 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: was not illegal. So it has to evolve over time. Agreed, Okay, 507 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: and it has agreed. So let's talk about, um, I 508 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: guess the impacts of today's modern white color CRME. I 509 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: was like man that was suspensible all of a sudden. Um. Yeah. 510 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: We've talked about a few of these about it seemingly 511 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: not having a victim. But what happens is, um, you 512 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: rip off a huge corporation, the race of prices. There's 513 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: another ripple effect. You talked about cutting jobs to meet 514 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, the needs of the investors if it's a 515 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: publicly traded company. Um, when there's stock fraud committed insider 516 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: scandals like Enron are going to ripple out throughout the 517 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: stock market cause, like you know, basically cause people to 518 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: be unsure and have no faith in the stock market 519 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: all the sudden. Yeah that's dangerous. Yeah, I think about 520 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: all the people who just lost everything. Oh my god, 521 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: I get Yeah, I get just as angry, if not 522 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: more angry at something like that than you know, something 523 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: like heinous crime. Yeah, that's an equal Yeah, they're both scumbags. Okay. Um, 524 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: so you said, like in seventy four the FBI first 525 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: started they that's when they've created this white color Kime division. 526 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: So apparently like yes, and it was a response like 527 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: this University of Michigan survey that they conducted between nineteen 528 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: fifty eight, I think in nineteen seventy three, they found that, um, 529 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: people who said that they trust the federal government went 530 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: from seventy three to thirty seven percent between nineteen fifty 531 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: eight and nineteen seventy three. Yeah, flo flopped. I could 532 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: see that over that time period. The sixties. Yeah, one 533 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: of the big ones was just like fraud and corruption 534 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: at high levels, and so the FBI created this white 535 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: collar crime thing. One of the other things that differentiates 536 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: white collar crime from regular working class crime is the 537 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: police's ability to police it. Right, you walk into a 538 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: room and there's some guy weighing out cocaine, he's a criminal. 539 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: You walk into a room and there's some guy on 540 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: a computer doing a pump and dump scheme. Who knows 541 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: that average cop isn't equipped to detect this kind of crime. 542 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, even very very well 543 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: trained cops aren't typically equipped to detect this kind of crime. 544 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: One of the hallmarks of white collar crime is that 545 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: it's very difficult to prove. It's very difficult to uncover, 546 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: and it's also difficult to prosecute. Yeah, and there's no uh, 547 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: smoking gun, there's no paper trail, or there may be 548 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: a paper trail, but it's probably electronified. Sure, so it's 549 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: a little harder to follow. You gotta really, you know, 550 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: you gotta have people that know what they're doing. And 551 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: that's why the FBI created that division, And I guess 552 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: they're doing a good job, but it's kind of hard. Well, 553 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: the Justice Department has been going after white collar crime 554 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: lately under Obama pretty hard here there. Um, and then 555 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: the Sarbanes Oxley Act definitely step things up, and some 556 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: say too much. Yeah, I mean I've had to comply 557 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: with this at various uh when I worked in the 558 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: film as Is production, companies had to like to jump 559 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: through way more hoops of paperwork because the Sarbanes Oxley 560 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: do you want to talk to you want to tell them? Well, 561 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: it's it was in two thousand two, and it was 562 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: to improve corporate governance, which is basically accountability between corporation 563 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: and the stakeholders. What it amounted to was a lot 564 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: more paperwork, essentially more proving of numbers and showing numbers 565 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: and jumping through hoops. It was a direct reaction from 566 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: of the fallout of Enron, from the fallout of en 567 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: On and Tycho and like all the other companies around 568 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: that time. Um. But one of the other things that 569 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: did chuckers was, um A quadrupled sentences in a lot 570 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: of cases for white collar crime. So now you have 571 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: guys like Bernie made Off getting a hundred and fifty years. 572 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: There's a guy named Sholem Weiss who was involved in 573 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: like the breakup of some insurance company. He got eight 574 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: hundred and forty five years. He gets out in twenty 575 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: seven fifty four. I don't think he's gonna see that. 576 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: I don't either, But I mean a guy named rich 577 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: Harkness got a hundred years for thirty nine million dollar 578 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: ponzi scheme like these and all of this is like 579 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: post Sarbanes Oxley, except Sholm Wisse, which is really saying something. 580 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: But but I mean, like, so now now sentences are 581 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: like quadruple. It's like, well, wait a minute, maybe maybe 582 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: this is a little too much like just retribution on 583 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: the rich. It is, and that's kind of I think 584 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: why a lot of people are having a hard time 585 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: feeling bad. Are ridiculously wealthy people who were hucksters and frauds, 586 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: or people who built people out of their retirement accounts. 587 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: It's tough to feel sorry for him. But legally speaking, 588 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: it's like, well, wait a minute, um, you were worried 589 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: about the guy who stole a thousand dollars out of 590 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: it till being treated differently from the guy who stole 591 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: a thousand dollars from an investor. Now it's flip floped. 592 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: How is that any better. One of the arguments for 593 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: these kind of things is that these people are traditionally 594 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: and historically have been treated differently because they look like 595 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: the judges that are sentencing them, and so judges historically 596 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: like really have taken it easy on them. Um, let's 597 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: go ahead and just call them white dudes, Okay, but 598 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: they also have been Um, you can make the case 599 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: that they are usually first time offenders, they're usually family people. Um, 600 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: that's that's something that the judges put out there, like, well, 601 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: this is a family man, he's not much of a 602 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: flight risk, he's probably never going to do this again 603 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: of the society. Yes, he didn't use a weapon, which 604 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: is a huge, huge differentiation, and so sentences have typically 605 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: typically been light. But um, you can you can also 606 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: kind of say, well, you know where where it feels 607 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: like we haven't quite felt it out, Like we've traditionally 608 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: ignored white collar crime. Now we're really sticking it to him. Well, 609 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: it's that whole argument with prison. Is it like punishment 610 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: for a crime done or is it rehabilitating a person 611 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: who has a problem with crime? Well, within eight hundred 612 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: and forty five years sentence, it's making an example out 613 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: of that person, because since you can't police it, another 614 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: way to prevent it is to send a message through 615 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: the courts, like you do this man, you're going to 616 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: prison for a long time. Yeah. I don't know if 617 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: that's such a deterrent though for some of these people. 618 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think about it. Twenty 619 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: years in a in a federal penn You say Club 620 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: fed is not around any longer, um, And I mean this, 621 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: this is like twenty actual years. Um. Some guy named 622 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: Thomas Peters recently got fifty years and he will spend 623 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 1: forty years in jail. And he's fifty two, and he 624 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: will probably die in prison. Now that's a big deal 625 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: with somebody who's like, well, maybe I shouldn't do this 626 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: insider track, Maybe I should let this fifty grands just 627 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: walk by because it's not really worth it. Well something 628 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: like that. I'm talking about the ones who are getting 629 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: rich by the tens of millions of dollars. What I 630 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 1: want to see is that these people don't get out 631 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: of prison and still have all those millions of dollars 632 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: like hidden in different foreign accounts and offshore islands and ah. Like. 633 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: The financial part is what really bugs me. I meant to, 634 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance. I meant to look up 635 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: and see if any of the en Ron victims and 636 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: employees where ever repaid or if they were just s 637 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: O L. I'm under the distinct impression they were s 638 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: ol because the company was in such bad shape that 639 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: even dissolving it. And I think I think they some 640 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: people did get money, but I don't think it was 641 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: anything approaching what they lost. Well, whoever commits these crimes 642 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: gets out of jail and they have two pennies to 643 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: rub together, then those two pennies more than they should have. 644 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: I think, Well, that's the thing. Like, so, the government 645 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 1: started prosecuting under the Rico Act, which is the same 646 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: thing they bust up mafia organizations with UM and they've 647 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: been fighting white collar crime with that. And one of 648 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: the things about the Rico Act as it allows states 649 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: and individuals who are harmed to sue for up to 650 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: three times the damages. Yeah, but even then all they 651 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: have to do is say, yeah, I don't have that money. 652 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: You kid me. Well, it's true, can't pay it. No, 653 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: it's true. But like UM in the made Off case, 654 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: the guy who's who was assigned to basically get money 655 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: back for investors has gotten I don't remember how much 656 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: made off fleece, but let's say it was eight billion. 657 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: The guys managed to like get like six billion back. Yeah, 658 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: he's done a really good job of getting the money back. 659 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: And that's just a that's that's an example. It's not 660 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: a figure, but it's it's something pretty significant. You're still 661 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: gonna get email. I'm looking forward to the ones. But 662 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: it's like, hey man, we don't listen to you for 663 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: free to hear your opinion about class. All right, let's 664 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: move on to other countries. Um, things are different all 665 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: over the world. Um. Obviously, when it comes to big 666 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: business and business dealings. Uh. Western Europe has followed right 667 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: behind the US, UH most wholeheartedly with laws to prevent corruption. 668 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: Eastern Europe's coming on board a little slower. Um. But 669 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: then you go into other countries like in Western Africa, 670 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: and it may be customary to Greece palms to get 671 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: a deal going, or in India where apparently, if you're 672 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: a truck driver, you're gonna have to bribe people to 673 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: keep your rig on the road. And that's just how 674 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: it is there, right, And not only is it customary. 675 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 1: It's frequently legal, yeah, Russia. Yeah, bribes all over the place. 676 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: If you want to land contract, you might have to 677 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: bribe somebody. So if you're a multinational corporation, it's tough 678 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: to do this headquarter in America. Yeah, you have like 679 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: a real problem facing you. Especially, like I said, the 680 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: UM Justice Department under Obama has been prosecuting white color 681 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: crimes and going big time after UM people under the 682 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which says if you're an American company, 683 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: you can't engage in bribes, even if it's legal in 684 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: that country. Yeah. But what's the point, like why hamstring 685 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: American business abroad? Exactly? UM? And to help this out, actually, 686 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: there has been a unified committee called the UM company 687 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry committee called Transparency International, and they are out 688 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: to get rid of corruption and to unify business business 689 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: ethics all over the world. Right, And that's the that's 690 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 1: the reason that you hamstring American business because it's basically saying, hey, uh, 691 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: we can take the hit in the hopes of pressing 692 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: the rest of the world into the same clean up 693 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: their act. Competitive laws we have here in the States 694 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: that work very well. It's so good luck to them. Yeah, 695 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: that's it, man, I got nothing else. No, we should 696 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: we should play this one out with um the talking 697 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: heads big business agreed. Okay, Um, so Chuck, let's see. Uh. 698 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: If people want to learn more about white collar crime, 699 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: I would strongly advise them to go read this article 700 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: by Jay McGrath of John And there's a Simpsons reference 701 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: in it. It's a way to go, Jane. Um. You 702 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: can type in white collar crime in the search part 703 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, which friend oh brings up listener. Ma'am, 704 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: that's right, Josh, I'm gonna call this, uh hot off. 705 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: The press is good cause I'm okay, Chuck and Josh 706 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: and Jerry. I want to say thank you for all 707 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: the hours of listening. My brother Chase and I've been 708 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: listeners nearly as long because you have been making them. 709 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: There was even one New Year's Day where all we 710 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: would do was listen to your hangover podcast on UP. 711 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,800 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't know if that's good for hangover. Uh. 712 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 1: It's funny and informative, and I always feel like calling 713 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: my brother after listening to the latest episode. I'm writing 714 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: you because it's recently his birthday. He's the best brother 715 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: in the world and downright awesome human being. It would 716 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: mean a lot to me if you could tell the 717 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: stuff you should know listeners about his latest project. When 718 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: his friend Jim survived cancer, he told Chase that he 719 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: gained strength in the music he loved. Over two years, 720 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: two hundred, twenty six hundred tracks, two hundred tracks, that's 721 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: a weird way to put it. What would that be? 722 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: Two would that be? Wait? How many two hundred? Dred 723 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: would it? Or dred? No? Plus two hundred, twenty hundred 724 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: nearly two hundred artists persons insane, No, she's not. Over 725 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: two years, two hundred tracks. Nearly two hundred artists from 726 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: other countries all over the world have allowed them to 727 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,879 Speaker 1: share that message. They are releasing their second compilation disc 728 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: Electronic Saviors colon Industrial Music to Cure cancer. So it's 729 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: these artists compilations are putting together apparently two tracks. Uh. 730 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: They're a registered US charity and all proceeds go to 731 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: cancer research. And if you want, if you're into electronic 732 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 1: music and if you want to support cancer research, you 733 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: can go to www. Dot Electronic Saviors dot com. And 734 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,439 Speaker 1: that is something Chase has got going and his sister 735 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: Laura Dudley. UH is a big fan of her bro 736 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: He sounds like a swell guy. I'm all for it. Cancer. 737 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: We had to promote a good cause, chuckers. We try 738 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: to do that. Um. Yeah, we always want to hear 739 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 1: about good causes. So you can get in touch with us. 740 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: Let us know about yours. We'll try our best to 741 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: let everybody else know about it, especially if people can 742 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: support it. Agreed. Um, let's see also enjoy Little Talking Heads, 743 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: Big Business from the live album Stop Making Sense released 744 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 1: to nine eight four. We're sure it's up on iTunes, 745 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: Amazon and elsewhere. Um. You can get in touch with 746 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: us at s Y s K podcast on Twitter. Uh, 747 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 1: you can go to Facebook dot com slash stuff you 748 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: should Know, and you can send us a regular old 749 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: email by wrapping it up, spanking it on the bottom, 750 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: and sending it off to Stuff podcast at Discovery dot com. 751 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, does 752 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. H brought to you 753 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are 754 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: you