Speaker 1: The future of medicine. That is our topic, is it? Yes? Okay? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Most discussion of healthcare these days revolves around angry discussions
Speaker 1: of the political Meanwhile, the technology continues to leave forward
Speaker 1: in some pretty cool ways, and Christopher Roland, business reporter
Speaker 1: for the Washington Post, joins us to discuss some of
Speaker 1: those technologies. Hello, Chris, how are you hey? I'm well, thanks?
Speaker 1: How you doing great? Are? I was caught by your
Speaker 1: peace in the WAPO about the smart pills and more.
Speaker 1: Tell I don't like the idea of a pill spine
Speaker 1: on me. I'll tell you that. Well, you're not alone.
Speaker 1: I mean there's quite a bit of concern about what
Speaker 1: it means, um to have a digital pill, so where
Speaker 1: you take a medication and it has a a sensor
Speaker 1: inside of it, so it tastes it's like a regular pill,
Speaker 1: but uh, it does admit a signal as it goes
Speaker 1: into your stomach, and then uh, your caregivers contract at
Speaker 1: and make sure that you took your medication. What it's
Speaker 1: trying to do is solve a big problem of people
Speaker 1: not being what's called compliant with their medications, that people
Speaker 1: aren't taking their medications. If people took their medications as
Speaker 1: they're supposed to. The theory is that it would improve
Speaker 1: public health, and it's that's probably true. The question is here, UM,
Speaker 1: what kind of you know, sort of big brother aspects
Speaker 1: does this introduce? Uh and people can uh you know
Speaker 1: monitor you digitally uh taking your medicine. It raises a
Speaker 1: number of privacy concerns UH and also concerns about effectiveness,
Speaker 1: whether it would actually work as intended. Am I correct
Speaker 1: that one of the main areas of interest in this
Speaker 1: sort of thing, this pill is for folks with schizophrenia. Well,
Speaker 1: so that's so. Uh So the first uh drug approved
Speaker 1: by the FDA in two thousand seventeen UH to use
Speaker 1: this digital technology UH is indeed a any psychotic medication
Speaker 1: called abilify um and that is primarily for people with
Speaker 1: schizophrenia and also bipolar disorder. And so that is the
Speaker 1: first population that it's being um introduced in, which uh
Speaker 1: you know, you could see as a potential um sort
Speaker 1: of public relations mistake because these are people who have
Speaker 1: uh significant UM issues with uh you know, paranoia and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, difficulty taking their drugs. UM. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, it is one of the populations where the
Speaker 1: need to have compliance with medications is the greatest because
Speaker 1: when people do take their medication and they have schizophrenia, um,
Speaker 1: their manic episodes are are controlled much better. And when
Speaker 1: they go off their medications, uh, they can lapse into
Speaker 1: crisis with you know, potentially you know, devastating consequences including um,
Speaker 1: you know, fatal outbursts and things like that. So you
Speaker 1: can see the need for it, but you can also
Speaker 1: see the you know, the real potential downsides. And I'm
Speaker 1: trying to picture this in the real world. And my
Speaker 1: son's been on a Bill of five but he's you know,
Speaker 1: a kid in our house and we know whether he
Speaker 1: takes his pill or not. But if he was out
Speaker 1: on his own taking a bill of Fi, this would
Speaker 1: be an opportunity maybe for us or the doctors or
Speaker 1: whoever to know. But by but you do get into
Speaker 1: some weird areas though, as soon as you do. And
Speaker 1: I mean so you know, so it's about agency, right, Like,
Speaker 1: so what's the individuals? And you know, your son's I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to here by your son and that's you know, definitely,
Speaker 1: so you understand this firsthand. Um, uh, you know, what
Speaker 1: about their rights to self determination? And you know, are
Speaker 1: they being Um, you know, are they doing this voluntarily?
Speaker 1: And so are they also able to you know, manage
Speaker 1: all the different complicated aspects of the software and you know,
Speaker 1: understand everything that's happening. Um and uh, you know are
Speaker 1: they being coerced at all? So that it raises a
Speaker 1: lot and then what happens to the data? So is
Speaker 1: the data kept in a very closed loop or is
Speaker 1: it potentially you know, um, you know what our insurers
Speaker 1: doing with that data? You know there's um, you know
Speaker 1: a lot of data that just goes out and is
Speaker 1: h it's difficult to control people's healthcare data now, so um,
Speaker 1: you know, raise a lot of questions about privacy. Chris
Speaker 1: Rowlands a business reporter for the Washington Post. And so
Speaker 1: far this technology is like devastatingly expensive to right, Well
Speaker 1: it is so you know abilify and there's you know
Speaker 1: generic abilify will uh you know you can it's not
Speaker 1: an expensive proposition any longer to be taking these anti
Speaker 1: psychotic drugs. Um and uh this would jack up the
Speaker 1: price to fifty dollars per month, which is you know,
Speaker 1: very expensive. A lot of health insurance companies are looking
Speaker 1: at this and say they raise a lot of concerns
Speaker 1: about this price, and it seems quite expensive when you
Speaker 1: know the the generic version of abilifies is cheap, so
Speaker 1: um and uh. But beyond that is whether it actually works.
Speaker 1: So you know, uh, you know, the insurers who have
Speaker 1: their their hands and on the throttle of drug costs
Speaker 1: are going to be looking to see if it actually
Speaker 1: works as intended. So if you know, so far it
Speaker 1: hasn't been proven that this will actually improve compliance. That
Speaker 1: said that it will have somebody you know, continue to
Speaker 1: take their drug. Uh, that remains unknown. The FDA approved
Speaker 1: it just based on the fact that the digital signal
Speaker 1: is admitted once it goes into your stomach, so so
Speaker 1: the so the end goal still has unproven. So that's
Speaker 1: sixty a month cost is prohibitive and is holding the
Speaker 1: marketplace back right now. Christopher Roland, business reporter for the
Speaker 1: Washington Post. Christ great job, good to talk to you,
Speaker 1: Thank you, all right, thank you. You know, there's so
Speaker 1: many things that are so amazing in medicine these days,
Speaker 1: but they're so expensive, and then you know, you find
Speaker 1: out it could really help you, but I can't have
Speaker 1: it because there's no money for it. That seems like
Speaker 1: an injustice. Oh yeah, well, this, this treatment that we're
Speaker 1: starting for my son today is insanely expensive, and uh insurance,
Speaker 1: thank goodness covered it. Um. But if it didn't, and
Speaker 1: it often doesn't, for this very treatment that we're doing,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be somewhere around sixty probably, great, Scott, I mean, so,
Speaker 1: do you do a go fund me or second mortgage
Speaker 1: in your house or choose not to do it, loans
Speaker 1: from family members, everybody? You know, Well, if you're desperate
Speaker 1: and you do what you have to do, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: all got to get figured out. The idea of swallowing
Speaker 1: a pill that transmits something you know, the records of
Speaker 1: your being prescribed it are already somewhere. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you're worried about being hacked or that information being somewhere, yeah,
Speaker 1: probably so,