WEBVTT - The Digital Pill

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<v Speaker 1>The future of medicine. That is our topic, is it? Yes? Okay? Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Most discussion of healthcare these days revolves around angry discussions

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<v Speaker 1>of the political Meanwhile, the technology continues to leave forward

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<v Speaker 1>in some pretty cool ways, and Christopher Roland, business reporter

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<v Speaker 1>for the Washington Post, joins us to discuss some of

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<v Speaker 1>those technologies. Hello, Chris, how are you hey? I'm well, thanks?

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<v Speaker 1>How you doing great? Are? I was caught by your

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<v Speaker 1>peace in the WAPO about the smart pills and more.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell I don't like the idea of a pill spine

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<v Speaker 1>on me. I'll tell you that. Well, you're not alone.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean there's quite a bit of concern about what

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<v Speaker 1>it means, um to have a digital pill, so where

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<v Speaker 1>you take a medication and it has a a sensor

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<v Speaker 1>inside of it, so it tastes it's like a regular pill,

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<v Speaker 1>but uh, it does admit a signal as it goes

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<v Speaker 1>into your stomach, and then uh, your caregivers contract at

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<v Speaker 1>and make sure that you took your medication. What it's

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<v Speaker 1>trying to do is solve a big problem of people

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<v Speaker 1>not being what's called compliant with their medications, that people

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<v Speaker 1>aren't taking their medications. If people took their medications as

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<v Speaker 1>they're supposed to. The theory is that it would improve

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<v Speaker 1>public health, and it's that's probably true. The question is here, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>what kind of you know, sort of big brother aspects

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<v Speaker 1>does this introduce? Uh and people can uh you know

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<v Speaker 1>monitor you digitally uh taking your medicine. It raises a

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<v Speaker 1>number of privacy concerns UH and also concerns about effectiveness,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it would actually work as intended. Am I correct

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<v Speaker 1>that one of the main areas of interest in this

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thing, this pill is for folks with schizophrenia. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's so. Uh So the first uh drug approved

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<v Speaker 1>by the FDA in two thousand seventeen UH to use

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<v Speaker 1>this digital technology UH is indeed a any psychotic medication

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<v Speaker 1>called abilify um and that is primarily for people with

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<v Speaker 1>schizophrenia and also bipolar disorder. And so that is the

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<v Speaker 1>first population that it's being um introduced in, which uh

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you could see as a potential um sort

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<v Speaker 1>of public relations mistake because these are people who have

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<v Speaker 1>uh significant UM issues with uh you know, paranoia and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, difficulty taking their drugs. UM. But on the

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<v Speaker 1>other hand, it is one of the populations where the

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<v Speaker 1>need to have compliance with medications is the greatest because

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<v Speaker 1>when people do take their medication and they have schizophrenia, um,

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<v Speaker 1>their manic episodes are are controlled much better. And when

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<v Speaker 1>they go off their medications, uh, they can lapse into

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<v Speaker 1>crisis with you know, potentially you know, devastating consequences including um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, fatal outbursts and things like that. So you

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<v Speaker 1>can see the need for it, but you can also

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<v Speaker 1>see the you know, the real potential downsides. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>trying to picture this in the real world. And my

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<v Speaker 1>son's been on a Bill of five but he's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a kid in our house and we know whether he

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<v Speaker 1>takes his pill or not. But if he was out

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<v Speaker 1>on his own taking a bill of Fi, this would

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<v Speaker 1>be an opportunity maybe for us or the doctors or

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<v Speaker 1>whoever to know. But by but you do get into

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<v Speaker 1>some weird areas though, as soon as you do. And

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<v Speaker 1>I mean so you know, so it's about agency, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>so what's the individuals? And you know, your son's I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sorry to here by your son and that's you know, definitely,

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<v Speaker 1>so you understand this firsthand. Um, uh, you know, what

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<v Speaker 1>about their rights to self determination? And you know, are

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<v Speaker 1>they being Um, you know, are they doing this voluntarily?

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<v Speaker 1>And so are they also able to you know, manage

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<v Speaker 1>all the different complicated aspects of the software and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>understand everything that's happening. Um and uh, you know are

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<v Speaker 1>they being coerced at all? So that it raises a

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<v Speaker 1>lot and then what happens to the data? So is

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<v Speaker 1>the data kept in a very closed loop or is

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<v Speaker 1>it potentially you know, um, you know what our insurers

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<v Speaker 1>doing with that data? You know there's um, you know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of data that just goes out and is

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<v Speaker 1>h it's difficult to control people's healthcare data now, so um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, raise a lot of questions about privacy. Chris

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<v Speaker 1>Rowlands a business reporter for the Washington Post. And so

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<v Speaker 1>far this technology is like devastatingly expensive to right, Well

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<v Speaker 1>it is so you know abilify and there's you know

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<v Speaker 1>generic abilify will uh you know you can it's not

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<v Speaker 1>an expensive proposition any longer to be taking these anti

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<v Speaker 1>psychotic drugs. Um and uh this would jack up the

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<v Speaker 1>price to fifty dollars per month, which is you know,

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<v Speaker 1>very expensive. A lot of health insurance companies are looking

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<v Speaker 1>at this and say they raise a lot of concerns

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<v Speaker 1>about this price, and it seems quite expensive when you

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<v Speaker 1>know the the generic version of abilifies is cheap, so

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<v Speaker 1>um and uh. But beyond that is whether it actually works.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, uh, you know, the insurers who have

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<v Speaker 1>their their hands and on the throttle of drug costs

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be looking to see if it actually

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<v Speaker 1>works as intended. So if you know, so far it

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't been proven that this will actually improve compliance. That

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<v Speaker 1>said that it will have somebody you know, continue to

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<v Speaker 1>take their drug. Uh, that remains unknown. The FDA approved

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<v Speaker 1>it just based on the fact that the digital signal

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<v Speaker 1>is admitted once it goes into your stomach, so so

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<v Speaker 1>the so the end goal still has unproven. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>sixty a month cost is prohibitive and is holding the

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<v Speaker 1>marketplace back right now. Christopher Roland, business reporter for the

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Post. Christ great job, good to talk to you,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, all right, thank you. You know, there's so

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<v Speaker 1>many things that are so amazing in medicine these days,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're so expensive, and then you know, you find

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<v Speaker 1>out it could really help you, but I can't have

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<v Speaker 1>it because there's no money for it. That seems like

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<v Speaker 1>an injustice. Oh yeah, well, this, this treatment that we're

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<v Speaker 1>starting for my son today is insanely expensive, and uh insurance,

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<v Speaker 1>thank goodness covered it. Um. But if it didn't, and

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<v Speaker 1>it often doesn't, for this very treatment that we're doing,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be somewhere around sixty probably, great, Scott, I mean, so,

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<v Speaker 1>do you do a go fund me or second mortgage

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<v Speaker 1>in your house or choose not to do it, loans

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<v Speaker 1>from family members, everybody? You know, Well, if you're desperate

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<v Speaker 1>and you do what you have to do, Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>all got to get figured out. The idea of swallowing

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<v Speaker 1>a pill that transmits something you know, the records of

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<v Speaker 1>your being prescribed it are already somewhere. I mean, if

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<v Speaker 1>you're worried about being hacked or that information being somewhere, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>probably so,