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Speaker 1: A gorgeous young co ed. She heads off to college,

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Speaker 1: but she finds out that things had gone very very wrong.

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Speaker 1: Bit by bit, day by day, someone is chipping away

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Speaker 1: at us criminally, and we have no idea. Then you

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Speaker 1: find out when you can't get a phone line, when

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Speaker 1: you can't get cabled, when you can't rent an apartment,

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Speaker 1: you're trashed because someone has stolen your ID, your credit ID.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I remember when I left

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Speaker 1: home to go to college. I left what a lot

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Speaker 1: of people would call nowhere out an unincorporated bib County

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Speaker 1: in the middle of Georgia, where there was nothing to

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Speaker 1: see except tall pine trees and soybean fills as far

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Speaker 1: as the eye could see, but it was everything to me.

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Speaker 1: I was driven down to then Valdosta State College on

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Speaker 1: the Florida line and left unceremoniously. I didn't know. My

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Speaker 1: mom cried the whole way home. But there I was,

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Speaker 1: with my locker in a couple of bags, and entered

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Speaker 1: the oldest and ugliest dorm on campus and started college

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Speaker 1: life with somebody I didn't even know as a roommate.

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Speaker 1: But it turned out just fine. That is for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people some of the happiest memories of their

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Speaker 1: life when they start all over in a brand new

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Speaker 1: place at college. I mean to see grace. This is

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Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being with us, and that's

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Speaker 1: what it should have been for a gorgeous young co

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Speaker 1: ed Axton bets Hamilton. She heads off to college, but

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Speaker 1: she finds out in her trek to college that things

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Speaker 1: had gone very, very wrong. Listen. Axton bets Hamilton was

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Speaker 1: nineteen when she first requested a copy of her credit report.

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Speaker 1: She expected a high score, but got exactly the opposite.

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Speaker 1: My credit report was ten pages long, full of fraudulent

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Speaker 1: credit card entries and associated collection agency entries. She learned

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Speaker 1: her identity had been stolen years earlier, when she was

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Speaker 1: just eleven, but the biggest shock was who stole it?

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, the author of The Less People

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Speaker 1: Know about Us, the Better, it's Axton bets Hamilton joining

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Speaker 1: us and speaking out. Forensic psychiatrist doctor Daniel Bober and

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Speaker 1: renowned attorney and author of Millennial's Guide to the Universe.

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Speaker 1: Now Dadealie Gold, Guys, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You know. To Axton, your book is tremendous. I've got

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Speaker 1: it right. Here in front of me, and I learned

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Speaker 1: so much. I remember in law school taking out massive

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Speaker 1: loans to pay for tuition and books everything else I

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Speaker 1: had to make on my own. My parents paid rent

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Speaker 1: for a place near the law school, and that was it.

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Speaker 1: And if it had not been for those loans, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't have gone to law school or bought my books

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Speaker 1: or anything. So acton Bets Hamilton explained to me, when

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Speaker 1: you first realized something was wrong. I moved off campus

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Speaker 1: my sophomore year, and I was so excited to get

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Speaker 1: my own place and get out of the dorms. And

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Speaker 1: I found a place that would allow me to have

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Speaker 1: my cats that I had had since I was ten

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Speaker 1: and twelve that were back at home, and I called

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Speaker 1: the electric company to establish service, and over the phone

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Speaker 1: they told me the date and time they would be

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Speaker 1: there to establish service. And I thought things were moving

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Speaker 1: along and was really excited to have this little apartment

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Speaker 1: of my own. And a few days later, the electric

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Speaker 1: company sends me a letter that says, due to your

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Speaker 1: credit score, we're requiring one hundred dollars deposit to establish service,

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Speaker 1: and there was a number to call at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the letter to get a copy of my credit report,

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Speaker 1: and I thought at the time it was because I

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Speaker 1: didn't have credit. I knew enough about credit to know

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Speaker 1: that having no credit could be just as detrimental as

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Speaker 1: having bad credit. And I thought that's all it was.

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Speaker 1: Because I was nineteen, I really shouldn't have had any credits.

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Speaker 1: And I called the number at the bottom of the letter,

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Speaker 1: just because I was curious about what was on a

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Speaker 1: credit report. I'd never seen one, I'd never heard of

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Speaker 1: such a thing, and I just wanted to see what

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Speaker 1: this credit bureau had in a file on me. I

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Speaker 1: was just curious, you know, I had no inclination that

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Speaker 1: anything was wrong at this point, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I called and gave them my information. They said they'd

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Speaker 1: give me or they'd send me my credit report, and

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Speaker 1: I forgot about it for six weeks, you know what

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Speaker 1: about my life. Moved into the apartment with going to

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Speaker 1: class is doing my thing, and I stepped off the

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Speaker 1: city bus one day outside of my apartment complex and

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Speaker 1: our mailboxes were on the outer wall, and I saw

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Speaker 1: this large Manila envelope sticking out of my mailbox, folded over,

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Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, that looks really official, and

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Speaker 1: points still a long day at school, and I really

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Speaker 1: don't want to deal with that, but I did, and

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Speaker 1: I went to the mailbox and I saw it was

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Speaker 1: from the credit bureau and it was a really thick envelope.

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Speaker 1: And at the time, I thought to myself, Wow, credit

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Speaker 1: reports must come with a lot of instructions and a

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Speaker 1: lot of disclosures, and they must be really difficult to read,

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Speaker 1: because I shouldn't really have much of a credit report.

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Speaker 1: And I walked into my apartment, sat on the arm

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Speaker 1: of my couch, open the envelope and learned very quickly

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Speaker 1: that credit reports do not come with a lot of

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Speaker 1: instructions and a lot of disclosures. They're not difficult to read.

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Speaker 1: But rather, my credit report was ten pages long, and

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Speaker 1: it was full of fraudulent credit cards entries and associated

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Speaker 1: collection agency entry. Okaya, whoa, whoa whoa white white, white white,

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Speaker 1: stop right there. You're just eighteen ish years old. How

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Speaker 1: can all of these fraudulent entries be on your credit report?

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Speaker 1: To Natalie Gold with me, renowned attorney and author of

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Speaker 1: Millennials Guide to the Universe. I think they need a guide,

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Speaker 1: Batalie Gold, Thank you, Natalie. Question, how can a bad

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Speaker 1: credit report ruin your life, especially when you just get started.

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Speaker 1: Let me count the ways. As a man much smarter

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Speaker 1: than me said, Look, credit, whether we like it or not,

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Speaker 1: is a parameter of which society getting as you know,

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Speaker 1: getting a rental property, owning property at all. That's what

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Speaker 1: we're based on. So of course a terrible credit score

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Speaker 1: can negatively impact us in every way, whether it be

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Speaker 1: that you can't get a car in a lease, or

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Speaker 1: that the amount you're paying is two to three times

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Speaker 1: what otherwise would be. And Nancy, you know, hearing acts

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Speaker 1: and story is so heart wrenching. And I am not

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Speaker 1: so surprised because I see clients in in my line

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Speaker 1: of work every day that thinks that they can do

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Speaker 1: and they sometimes are just a denial of what they

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Speaker 1: can do to their kids because they feel that they've

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Speaker 1: got these kids into existence. They can do what they want,

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Speaker 1: and they can open accounts in their name, they can

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Speaker 1: transfer profit to their name to protect themselves. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of these clients I have don't even

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Speaker 1: think there's something wrong with this, right, So we're all going,

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Speaker 1: We're all going about our business not realizing that bit

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Speaker 1: by bit, day by day, someone is chipping away at

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Speaker 1: us criminally and we have no idea. Then you find

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Speaker 1: out when you can't get a phone line, when you

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Speaker 1: can't get cabled, when you can't rent an apartment. You're

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Speaker 1: trashed because someone has stolen your ID, your credit ID,

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Speaker 1: not your driver's license in your wallet or your Social

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Speaker 1: Security card that you've got stashed away and your underwear drawer.

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Speaker 1: But your credit is destroyed and it can ruin your life.

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Speaker 1: You know, the other day, I was taking the twins

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Speaker 1: up to go hiking, all right, and John David started

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Speaker 1: singing this in the back seat. This is not an ad.

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Speaker 1: This is what John Davis started singing in the back seat. Listen. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was shopping for a new car, which one's me,

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Speaker 1: a co convertible or an SUV? Too bad? I didn't

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Speaker 1: know my credit was whack as now I'm driving off

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Speaker 1: a lot into use of compact f r E. That's

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Speaker 1: Bells Free Credit dot dot com. Baby, yeah, their ads

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Speaker 1: on my TV. Thought about going but was too lazy.

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Speaker 1: Now instead of looking flying rolling fat, my legs are

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Speaker 1: sticking to the final M. My posse's getting laughed at.

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Speaker 1: F r EE. That's Bells Free Credit Report dot com. Baby. Okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then my son was singing that and he's elone. I said, John, David,

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Speaker 1: do you even know what a credit report is? He

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Speaker 1: said no, and then he kept singing creditreport dot com baby,

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Speaker 1: something like that. By the time we were at the

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Speaker 1: hiking spot, I knew the whole thing by hard climb

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. But it's not just about getting

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Speaker 1: a car. It's not just about straightening up some white

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Speaker 1: collar crime. I remembered distinctly Natalie Gold, attorney and author

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Speaker 1: of Millennials, A Guide to the Universe. I was looking

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Speaker 1: at a condo to be close to the courthouse and stupid, stupid,

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Speaker 1: and I was a prosecutor, a brand new prosecutor. But

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Speaker 1: I left my pocketbook in the car. I wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the condo for twenty minutes. I came out my car

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Speaker 1: Winday was bashed. In My pocketbook, which had my Social

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Speaker 1: Security card in it, which was also stupid, was gone,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it. Along with I think my badge.

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Speaker 1: I still had my badge on me, my goal badge

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Speaker 1: as a prosecutor, but everything else was gone, credit cards,

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Speaker 1: driver's license, social security, the works. It was about six

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Speaker 1: months later I learned it somehow, and I a Nigerian

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Speaker 1: fraud ring had created a new Nancy Grace identity in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and I gave a statement to a prosecutor over the

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Speaker 1: phone and they were prosecuted. But people create Natalie Gold

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Speaker 1: a whole new identity. It's you out there in cyberspace, absolutely, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And the scariest thing today is you know that story

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Speaker 1: that you told that happened to you is devastating, and

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Speaker 1: it's something that at least you know what's happened. You

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Speaker 1: know that your car was broken into, you know that

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Speaker 1: these things were stolen. And today's modern day technology, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they don't even have to go to those lens. They

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Speaker 1: can just be sitting on their computer, very nice, drinking

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Speaker 1: their cup of coffee as that go in and get

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Speaker 1: are what we call them business PII personally identifiable information

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Speaker 1: and from that and we could not even know. They

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Speaker 1: could take our social security number, they could take our

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Speaker 1: names and addresses, they could take so many things and

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Speaker 1: pretend to be us. And today's social media society, where

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Speaker 1: your reputation can be busted in ten seconds or less,

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Speaker 1: we really have to be so careful. And Nancy, to

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Speaker 1: your point, It wasn't stupid what you did. It was

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Speaker 1: just careless. And a lot of us listeners, you know,

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Speaker 1: we do careless things every single day. But I think

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Speaker 1: that this story really is about how do you take

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Speaker 1: the precautions to protect ourselves? Because I'll tell you, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: in my line of work, as in the state attorney

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Speaker 1: and the wealth attorney, the biggest thing in my mind

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Speaker 1: is when someone Heaven's go bid dies, sixty four percent

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Speaker 1: of people die without a Well, okay, this money is

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Speaker 1: just sitting in the bank waiting to be taken by

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Speaker 1: a beneficiary. So be states have to do is stick

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Speaker 1: around who is that beneficiary and going pretend to be

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Speaker 1: them at the bank and get hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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Speaker 1: And if you think I'm kidding, there's billions of dollars

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Speaker 1: with the bee over the United States and unclaimed funds

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Speaker 1: that people don't even know about. And to me, that

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Speaker 1: is something you know, going into experstorian even what happened

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Speaker 1: to you? But what about when you know the faith

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Speaker 1: first requested a copy of her credit report, she expected

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Speaker 1: a high score but got exactly the opposite. My credit

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Speaker 1: report was ten pages long full of fraudulent credit card

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Speaker 1: entries and associated collection agency entries. She learned her identity

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Speaker 1: had been stolen years earlier, when she was just eleven.

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Speaker 1: But the biggest shock was who stolen her own mother?

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Speaker 1: And not only did she steal my identity, she stole

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Speaker 1: my father's identity as well as my grandfather's identity. She

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Speaker 1: ruined her own credit and then moved on to ours.

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Speaker 1: Axton discovered it after her mother had died, joining me

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Speaker 1: right now. The author of an incredible book, The Less

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Speaker 1: People Know About Us, It's Axton bets Hamilton, forensic psychiatrist,

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Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober and attorney, an author of Millennial's Guide

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Speaker 1: to the Universe, Natalie Gold to Axton bets Hamilton. So

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Speaker 1: you're trying to start your life and you can't get

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Speaker 1: anything done because you have a horrible, horrible credit rating,

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Speaker 1: and you find that your identity has been totally hacked.

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Speaker 1: But you never suspected the woman you trusted the most

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Speaker 1: in your life. Your mother is the one that stole

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Speaker 1: your identity and wrecked your life. Axton, when did you

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Speaker 1: realize who was behind your misfortune? I realized it was

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Speaker 1: mom after she passed away in twenty thirteen. So from

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Speaker 1: the time that I discovered I was a victim of

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Speaker 1: identity theft, and so I found out that she was

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator. Was twelve years Oh, my stars, I just asked,

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Speaker 1: and when you how did you realize first of all

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Speaker 1: that it was your mother. Well, it was thirteen days

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Speaker 1: after my mom had passed away. My dad was in

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Speaker 1: an outbuilding on their property where a mom had stored

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Speaker 1: different things, and he was going through a file box

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Speaker 1: and he found a credit card statement in my name

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Speaker 1: that had been ran over limit back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one. And he called me and he was furious

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Speaker 1: with me because I had ran a credit card over

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Speaker 1: the limit in two thousand and one and he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, what were you thinking? We raised you better

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Speaker 1: than that. And I said, well, whoa, I didn't what

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Speaker 1: are you talking about? And he said, well, don't you

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Speaker 1: whe to me. I have the credit card statement in

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Speaker 1: my hand and I said, well, what credit card is it?

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Speaker 1: And he told me and I said, well, Dad, that

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Speaker 1: was one of the credit cards that was taken out

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Speaker 1: in my name. Is part of the identity theft. What's

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Speaker 1: mom doing with that? And he said, well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but it's in here in the file with your birth certificate,

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Speaker 1: and my blood ran pold because I had my birth certificate.

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Speaker 1: And also there was no logical reason for a credit

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Speaker 1: card statement and my birth certificate to be in the

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Speaker 1: same filefold with me. As Axton bets Hamilton, author of

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Speaker 1: The Less People Know About Us on Amazon, describing the moment,

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Speaker 1: she says her blood ran cold. Axton, why did you

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Speaker 1: get that chill when you saw quote your birth certificate.

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Speaker 1: I saw my birth certificate that was in that file.

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Speaker 1: It was a certified copy of my birth certificate from

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Speaker 1: the health department that was issued on June seventh of

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Speaker 1: two thousand. I didn't live at home on June seventh

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Speaker 1: of two thousand. I was taking summer classes in college.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have gotten that birth birth certificate. So what

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Speaker 1: likely happened is that mom went to the county Health

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Speaker 1: department requested a certified copy of my birth certificate, likely

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Speaker 1: because when she applied for the credit card in two thousands,

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Speaker 1: when the credit card company checked my credit, they questioned

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Speaker 1: the address. You know, they most likely thought this could

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Speaker 1: be fraudulent because at that time my address would have

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Speaker 1: been my college address, not the address back at home

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Speaker 1: two hours away, and they likely sent a letter saying

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Speaker 1: we need additional proof of your identity, and that birth

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Speaker 1: certificate was probably part of that proof for mom to say, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm really accident, and you know this is legitimately her

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Speaker 1: credit card application and please send it. You know this

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Speaker 1: is shocked to me. This information for those of you

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Speaker 1: just joining us, is so disturbing and so shocking. Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Welcome back, guys, I Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us with us Accident Bets Hamilton,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Daniel Bober and Natalie Gold Accident. It's hard for

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Speaker 1: people to get their mind around the fact that your mom,

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Speaker 1: unbeknownst to you, stole your ID, her dad's ID, her

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Speaker 1: grandfather's ID in order to rack up bills. Builds for

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Speaker 1: what I wish I knew that is, that's part of

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Speaker 1: the mystery. We know that over the twenty years that

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Speaker 1: the identity that was taking place between all three of

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Speaker 1: our identity these and there's at least six hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars approximately that has either been misappropriated or it's just

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Speaker 1: plain missing. Most of it, I shouldn't say most. A

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Speaker 1: large portion of that roughly one hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars is just missing from the last two and a

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Speaker 1: half years of her life. Axon's parents' identity have been

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Speaker 1: stolen when she was a little girl, and at eighteen,

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Speaker 1: she discovers her own identity was stolen when she was

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Speaker 1: just eleven, that somebody racked up five hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: in credit card debt. But what she did not know

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Speaker 1: was the thief was with her all along. The thief

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Speaker 1: was there when she graduated. The thief was there. It

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Speaker 1: was her own mother. With me, Professor of Consumer Studies

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Speaker 1: at Eastern Illinois University describing what happened. Now, you were

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Speaker 1: running an apartment trying to get electric service, but then

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Speaker 1: the electric company since you a letter saying you had

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Speaker 1: to put down one hundred bucks deposit because of you're

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Speaker 1: a horrible credit score, and then you get a ten

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Speaker 1: page credit report. Acton when you realized that your mom

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Speaker 1: was the one that had stolen your identity. What went

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Speaker 1: through your mind? Well, it was a stead of conflicting

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Speaker 1: emotions because as you know, a student, and you know,

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Speaker 1: as an undergraduate and then as a graduate student, I

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Speaker 1: focused on identities after in my studies and part out

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Speaker 1: of frustration because of my own experience and trying to

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Speaker 1: recover and how difficult that was. But I also wanted

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Speaker 1: to help other people because surely there are other victims

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Speaker 1: out there who were just as frustrated as I was.

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Speaker 1: And I really wanted to solve the case. I talked

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Speaker 1: about that in the book you Know from you Know

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Speaker 1: From the time to Sell started with my parents. I

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Speaker 1: wanted the case to be resolved, and they were Wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, accident. You're absolutely correct. Take a listener, friend,

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Speaker 1: doctor Phil. You say that she stole your identity? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and opened up what ten credit cards? Ten? Maybe more? Ten?

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Speaker 1: Maybe more credit cards in your name? Yes, along with

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Speaker 1: a electricity bill as well, utility bill and ten credit cards. Yes.

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Speaker 1: You said that you wanted to focus to be on

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Speaker 1: the relationship. Then let's talk about the relationship. Did you

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Speaker 1: hijack your daughter's identity? No? I did not. The election,

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Speaker 1: so you didn't open ten credit cards in her name? No,

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Speaker 1: I did not. She was aware of the one to

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Speaker 1: start her credit when she was at school. I did

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Speaker 1: the electric bill so she would have a place of residency.

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Speaker 1: You knew that. Look, there aren't versions of the truth.

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Speaker 1: Did she or did she not open up credit cards

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Speaker 1: in your name. Yes she did, and they weren't for you.

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Speaker 1: She had the credit cards, Yes, she had the credit

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Speaker 1: cards the whole time. Wow, you are hearing doctor Field

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Speaker 1: take on a mom and daughter where the mom takes

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Speaker 1: out credit cards and daughter cheller's name. Mom keeps the

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Speaker 1: credit cards for herself and she's not the only one.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to her for an abcp R Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Olivia McNamara was starting her freshman year at Vanderbilt University and,

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Speaker 1: like so many eighteen year olds, applying for her first

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Speaker 1: credit card. That's when the nightmare started. Olivia's credit applications

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Speaker 1: were rejected twice. Someone had stolen her identity when she

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Speaker 1: was nine years old. They years to run up one

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Speaker 1: point five million dollars in debt. I can't even describe it.

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Speaker 1: It's just really shocking, and we just had no idea.

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Speaker 1: The thieves created more than forty two accounts, defaulting on

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Speaker 1: all of them. They took blows out on boats and

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Speaker 1: houses and everything. Olivia is still working to clear her credit.

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Speaker 1: It may take her months, if not years, to start fresh.

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Speaker 1: A new report estimates that are staggering. One in ten

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Speaker 1: American children are victims with no clue it's happening. Criminals

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Speaker 1: hack home computers looking for tax forms with the social

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Speaker 1: security numbers of children. They've also stolen identities from hospitals,

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Speaker 1: child welfare agencies, even schools. Thieves stole eleven year old

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Speaker 1: Brianna's social Security number and ran up more than one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty two thousand dollars in debt buying a

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Speaker 1: car and a house using eight year old Bradley's ID.

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Speaker 1: Crooks took out two student loans and got five credit cards,

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Speaker 1: total damage nineteen thousand, two hundred dollars. Thieves use false

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Speaker 1: names and addresses repeatedly, simply opening new accounts after their default.

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Speaker 1: Joining me accident. Bets Hamilton, author of The Less People

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Speaker 1: Know About Us, speaking out of the Less People Know

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Speaker 1: about You? Is it sure your mom did not want

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Speaker 1: any a funeral, nor does she want an obituary? And

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Speaker 1: what do you believe the reasoning is behind that? I

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Speaker 1: think she wanted to take her secrets and her crimes

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Speaker 1: with her to the graves. I think that she thought

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Speaker 1: by having an obituary and a funeral service that different

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Speaker 1: people that she was telling different versions of the truth too,

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Speaker 1: would all converge in one place, meaning the funeral home,

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Speaker 1: and start saying things to us and questioning things that

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Speaker 1: would make her story and her criminal activity unraveled right

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Speaker 1: there at the funeral home. So she still wanted to

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Speaker 1: isolate us from other people. Even in her death. The

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Speaker 1: mom did not want a funeral, did not want an obituary.

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Speaker 1: It was it because she wanted to keep hiding what

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Speaker 1: she had been doing, afraid that if somebody saw her

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Speaker 1: full name, they would put two and two together and

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Speaker 1: recognize her. Her real name Pam Pam Bets, but she

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Speaker 1: often went by Pamela Elliott, and that's name she used

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Speaker 1: frequently even on Facebook. Question do you accton how did

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Speaker 1: you relate to your mom in life? What was your relationship?

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a good relationship. I talked with

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Speaker 1: her every day. And you know, Mom was this person

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Speaker 1: who had you know, this larger than life. Of course,

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Speaker 1: she you know, you know, in our family, she was

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Speaker 1: the knowledgeable one, and she was the strong one. You know,

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Speaker 1: even when she had cancers, she faced it fearlessly, and

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Speaker 1: Dad and I saw that as a sign of strength.

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Speaker 1: We always saw her as the strong one, the more

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Speaker 1: rational one, the one who would always know what to

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Speaker 1: do and how to take care of things. But I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out where did all that money go?

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Speaker 1: Five hundred thousand dollars. I mean, what kind of lifestyle

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Speaker 1: was your mom leading? What was your homeline, your close,

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Speaker 1: your cars? What we primary at? Shopped at Walmart because

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Speaker 1: that's what there was in the rural community where I

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Speaker 1: grew up, and that's where you know, mom bought my

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Speaker 1: clothes and we inherited my grandfather's farm, so we lived

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Speaker 1: in his limestone ranch style house in a pretty modest house.

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Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have fancy car crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. When you go when you guys went back

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Speaker 1: through all the years of credit card fraud, could you

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Speaker 1: tell what she was doing with it? No? IM So

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Speaker 1: that one credit card statement in my name that Dad

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Speaker 1: found it was an overdue notice, so there were no

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Speaker 1: charges on the statements. And what statements I could find,

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Speaker 1: which you know my picture of documentses, so there's no

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Speaker 1: trail of what she was purchasing. Is it true that

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Speaker 1: there were indications she may have had a second life

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Speaker 1: in Ohio? Yes, on her computer. So when I when

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Speaker 1: I found this out, I became like a CSI technician

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Speaker 1: almost and I was going through her Facebook. I was

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Speaker 1: going through all of the files on her computer, and

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Speaker 1: I found pictures of a house on a lake, and

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Speaker 1: I found pictures from the inside of a condominium. And

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Speaker 1: the pictures are taken at night. They're not staged and

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Speaker 1: they're not professional. You know, it looks like someone took

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Speaker 1: them on their cell phone. And you can tell us night.

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Speaker 1: You can see the through the window that there's a

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Speaker 1: pretty full moon, and then you can see from the

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Speaker 1: way the condos are designed, you know, what they looked

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Speaker 1: like from the outside. So, just on a lark, I

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Speaker 1: googled condominium complexes in the town where she graduated high

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Speaker 1: school from, and that photo was taken some condo inside

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Speaker 1: that complex. I have gone to the online property records

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Speaker 1: search in that county to try and find property records

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Speaker 1: in her name, or her maiden name, or even my

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Speaker 1: name or dad's name. I can't find any property records

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Speaker 1: in her name. That doesn't mean she didn't set up

430
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: a business to buy property, because she knew how to

431
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: set up businesses. In fact, she set up her own.

432
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: Because there are these photos of other properties, not of

433
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: other people, but other properties. But the money had to

434
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: go somewhere five hundred thousand dollars that we know of,

435
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: but she managed to cover it up. She would, of course.

436
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: Accon is the only child. They lived on a farm

437
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: a quarter of a mile to the nearest home. She

438
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: had set her identity and the dads were stolen, but

439
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: pointed at the finger at other people. For all these years,

440
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: her husband and Shaw had no idea what was going on?

441
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Yeah, you know, Nancy, I've

442
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: seen this in patience actually who I've interviewed in prisons

443
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: who are leading whole other lives and have other families,

444
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: or sometimes they have a substance abuse habit and that's

445
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: where all the money's going. But you know, in a

446
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: situation like this, it definitely seems like the person has

447
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,479
Speaker 1: two identities. But how do you come home to your

448
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: family every day and live a quote normal life when

449
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: you have another life somewhere else. I guess you're able

450
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize it. I mean, I think that's the only

451
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: way you're able to cope and rationalize it and at

452
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: acton Bets Hamilton, author of The Less People Know About Us,

453
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: how did your dad handle this? Because it's not he

454
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: didn't even know who he's married to. Right, So, after

455
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: Mom died, he had a really hard time coping with it.

456
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: In fact, it was hard for him to even be

457
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: in house. And you know, one way he coped with that,

458
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: um he had a customer at the store where he

459
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: worked come in and you know, the customer and Dad

460
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: were pretty good friends. And he had a terminal diagnosis

461
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: is cancer. And he had a motorcycle that he offered

462
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: to Dad, uh, you know, for sale for an extremely

463
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: reasonable price. And you know, because you know, he felt

464
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: sorry for my dad and he and my dad always

465
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: talked about motorcycles and Dad always talked to him about

466
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: while Sunday, I'd like to have one. While this customer

467
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: helped make that a reality. And you know, my dad

468
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: was hesitant about about buying the bike because it's like,

469
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: you know, this financially is a stupid decision. You know,

470
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: I could use the money for other things, um, you

471
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: know that he needed at that time. But he ended

472
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: up buying the bike with my blessing, and it was

473
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: one of the best things to help him cope because

474
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: he could get on the bike when you know, when

475
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: he felt uncomfortable at home, didn't want to be there.

476
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: You go out and ride. He found other friends who

477
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: you know, have the same interest in motorcycles. And what's

478
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: great about that is that this new group of friends

479
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: know just him, they don't know him and Mom together,

480
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: and I think that's been very healthy for him. Tell

481
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: me accident about your marriage. Where did you get married

482
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: and why? Well, when Mom was given a terminal diagnosis,

483
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: I had just come back from seeing her in Indiana,

484
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: and in fact, I had been home long enough to

485
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: start unpacking my suitcase when Dad called and said, you

486
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: have to come home. There's nothing more they can do

487
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: for her. And you know, it's almost like my life

488
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: flashed inside of my eyes, but it was like my

489
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: future life, and that, you know, I thought I had

490
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: all of this extra time with Mom. You know Mom,

491
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, within her late fifties when she passed away.

492
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: I thought I had a lot more years left of

493
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: stuff for her to see me do. When one of

494
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: those things was getting married, and I called my then

495
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: fiance and said, you have to come down here, told

496
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: him what was going on, and I said I need

497
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: you to bring a suit because you're gonna get married

498
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: in it. Because we had been engaged for quite a while,

499
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: so it wasn't. It wasn't a surprise, and we ended

500
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: up getting married in her hospital room thirty six hours

501
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: before she passed away. So that was that was the

502
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: last big event that she saw me do, and I

503
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: wanted Mom to see that before she passed away. And

504
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: at that time you had no idea as she was

505
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: laying in her hospital bed that she had siphoned half

506
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: a million dollars using yours and other family members names.

507
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: Had no idea, no idea too. Natalie Gold, renowned lawyer,

508
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: author of Millennials Guide to the Universe. You can find

509
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: it on Amazon. Natalie, how could this have happened? What

510
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: are the mechanics of how her mother, pambits Axon's mother

511
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: pull this off? It's really quite simple. She had obviously

512
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: her daughters, all of hers my identifiable information and the

513
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: real route, in my opinion of why this happened is

514
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: the disease in America of overspending and not having any

515
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: control on our money. And you know, hearing acts and story,

516
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking because you think what could have Mom blocked

517
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: for the five hundred thousand dollars And I would reckon

518
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: that it's probably a lot of Chatsky's here and nothing

519
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: so valuable there because we can't. We as Americans especially

520
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: have a disease when it comes to spending money and

521
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: likely would happened as ax And says, her mother's credit

522
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: was ruined. Then who did she go to her husband,

523
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: grandfather and child because she probably thought, well, maybe I

524
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: can buy them some extra things, maybe I can alleviate

525
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: And especially because you were going to Ohio so often,

526
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised if she had some sort

527
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: of lover of their or boyfriend or what have you.

528
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: Because for her to do this and hide it from

529
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: your family, who, as a mother and then your children

530
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: are the ones who you love the most in this world.

531
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,