WEBVTT - Palantir Says Demand for AI Unprecedented 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.279 All right, we want to kind of ship back to 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.680 the markets if we may, because one name that's certainly 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.439 been front and center and that has balent here soaring 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.240 more than twenty percent. We saw it in the aftermarket, 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:30.920 we saw it in today's trade. I was just going 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:32.960 to pull it up on the Bloomberg and see where 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:34.919 we are. Were up twenty three percent, so pretty much 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.000 holding on to its gains. A lot of it is 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.480 because they talk so much about AI on the call 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:42.760 with analysts. So let's get to it with our guest, 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.320 Bloomberg News VC and Startups reporter Lisette Chapman in our 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.640 San Francisco bureau, and Andrew McAfee, MIT scientist and work Helix, 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.200 co founder at the MIT Sloan School of Management. He 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.279 joins us via zoom in Boston. Folks, Thanks so much 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.480 for being here with Matt and myself, Lazette. First off, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.639 just brief Lee kind of what we heard from Palenteer, 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.520 in particular the excitement and narrative around AI. Tell us 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:07.760 kind of what we got from the company. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:08.800 Yeah. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.280 Sure. Palunteer, of course is a you know, tech company 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.440 that's been unprofitable for two decades up until this past quarter. 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.440 So that was another thing that's been driving the surge 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.640 and the stock price. They did a surprise profit, and 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.160 then they pivoted very quickly to talking about this AI 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.560 platform that they say that they've been working on for 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.800 the past several months. They will be releasing to select 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.640 customers they didn't say who a little later this month, 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.520 and then it'll be available more broadly for their hundreds 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.720 of customers in the months to come. Of course, their 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:45.880 customers include some of the largest branches of the military 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.480 here in the US, as well as that of our allies, 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.160 along with a bunch of commercial customers. So that's driving 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:51.560 the news. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.760 So and Andy, let me ask you about you know 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.760 what kind of worry this could be. When I read 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.360 the Palenteer story and I saw that they deal with 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:08.920 very sensitive data, criminal databases, DMV records, phone data, and 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.280 that they would be providing solutions AI solutions to the 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.359 military to bring to dig through this data as well 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.840 as you know other institutions. I thought it's a little 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.919 bit scary, and then I saw the CEOs quote Alex 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.680 Carpi says the machine must remain subordinate to its creator, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:30.280 as if the alternative is even a possibility. You and 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.680 he wrote the book Raise Against the Machine with my 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.040 buddy John Brynielsen's brother Eric, So it's great to have 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.480 you on the program. Should we be worried about this AI, 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.560 especially in the hands of a company like Palenteer. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:46.160 We should always be mindful when extraordinarily powerful new technologies 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.960 come out, and generative AI is an extremely powerful new technology. 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.359 One way to think about it is, we have finally 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:57.720 built a technology that understands this that is fluent in 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.920 human languages. This is kind of wild and we were 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.640 and expecting it, and Matt, like you point out, it 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.440 can be used for all kinds of purposes. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.040 I'm actually optimistic. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.639 I think Palenteer has a pretty long preck record of 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.960 safeguarding the sensitive information that it's given and of building 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.560 very powerful technologies that normal human beings can work effectively with. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.239 I think it's an ideal match for this new category 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.240 of generative AI, which is all about letting us do 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.079 this and interact with with huge amounts of data. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.120 Well, well, ways like Liz that and Andy, this is 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:30.880 why I wanted also to talk to you because I 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.960 feel like we need to be rationalble rational as we 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:35.800 talk about AI, because I feel like there's a lot 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.960 of folks out there saying, oh my god, you know 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.400 the world's coming to an end. Andy, what is the 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.120 smart conversation? As you say, you know, there's lots of 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.720 data and information in the hands of a lot of 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.680 companies already, I would say and argue just about every 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.040 company that's out there on all of us. So what 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.640 is the smart, rational conversation to have around AI and 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:56.880 a company like Palenteer. 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.160 And what's not going to happen is that chat GPT 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.920 is inadvertently or with Palanteer's help, going to take all 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.600 the things that the NSA knows about it and tell 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.160 the Internet about all that sensitive information. 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.200 That's so unlikely. We don't need to spend a lot 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:14.000 of time on that. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.600 What it's going to do instead is let an analyst 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:21.760 at the NSA use different techniques to interact with huge 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.640 amounts of information and draw conclusions with it. Now again, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.240 there are risks associated with that, but I think it's 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:32.880 fundamentally a quantum jump in productivity and in our ability 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.280 to deal with machines and huge amounts of information. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.880 Well, you could, I mean see AI, Lizette. 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.640 You could see the AI using for example, the way 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.599 back machine and digging into Carol's old social media profiles. 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.159 Maybe she posted a picture that wasn't very flattering on 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:48.839 friends to her back in the day. 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.760 And not all Facebook, and now. 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.839 Someone could go and find it. Isn't this a concern? 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:55.640 I mean, you could find it anyway, but this is 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.039 a giant machine helping you to do that kind of things. 0:04:58.200 --> 0:04:59.679 That kind of stuff come on in Lizet. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:01.880 Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it's 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.600 really worth keeping some sense of context around this. This 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.719 is information and data that Palenters software has allowed, has aggregated, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:17.039 cleaned and integrated for you know, the intelligence communities, for 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.080 the IRS, for the veterans affairs, for all sorts of 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.039 military operations of ourselves and our and our allies for 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.159 over a decade, if not more. The AI tweaked to it, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.240 if you will, is simply applying that data against large 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:36.240 language models to go ahead and make it more accessible 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:41.000 to more users that have the permissions to access this 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.880 different information, this different data sets. You're not allowed to 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.440 access it, you're not allowed to use it without it 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.840 being logged in. Pallenteer software, which they say is going 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.160 to make them more secure or already more secure than 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:55.960 some of the alternatives on the market. 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.000 But Andy my understanding, there was a great thing. I 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.359 think it was in the times of just kind of 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.560 a very big understanding of how generative AI works and 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.200 how it like initially it's kind of code and gobblygook, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.200 and then it gets smarter and smarter the more information 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.640 that's kind of put into it, So something like whatever 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.600 Palanteer is using or anybody out there, gets better and 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.640 smarter and more accurate the more data that goes into it. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:21.119 So two mats concerns and sentient. He's freaking out here, 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:22.320 he's heading for the hills. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:23.000 I'm amazing. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:24.160 Let me use that word. 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.800 That's the traperator worry that we don't need to discovers. 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.039 What's the balance of making our next level of AI 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:34.440 maybe incredible for our world and smarter and safer, and 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.920 also securing that it doesn't get into the wrong hands. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.440 Well, I think, like we just heard, companies like Pealantry 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.720 have a long trek record of segregating the data and 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.960 making sure that it can't jump over those walls very easily. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.360 So that's not a thing that I'm worried about. You 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.159 point out, Carol correctly, that these large language models tend 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.880 to get better, they get more fluent, they get more 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.600 nuanced as we give them more data. 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:57.960 Great. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.800 I would like to interact with an extraord narrowly fluent, nuanced, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.880 very flexible technology. I spend a lot of time filling 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.040 out spreadsheets, making budgets, doing stuff like that. I would 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.040 love to be able to say to a piece of technology, hey, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:11.440 give me the first draft of. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.440 This and let me tweak it from there. That's what 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.560 I think is the real innovation here. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.400 Well, and you know the limit on that is going 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.560 to be the ip that the large language model has 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.880 access to, right, Lizette. So I mean, for example, I 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.520 would love to generate an AI chatbot that can comb 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.280 through all the different used car sites and find me 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.880 the exact nineteen eighty five nine to eleven sc that 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.920 I want without us on roof, please, But it can't 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:41.360 because Auto Trader, car Gurus classic cars, Hemmings. They don't 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.880 allow these large language models to come in and look 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.160 at all of their pictures. If they don't have the IP, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.600 they really can't do business, can they exactly? 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.080 And so that's what we're going to be seeing and 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.720 that's what they're working on now at Pallenteer. In the 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.440 weeks and in the months to come, they talked about 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:02.400 refocusing the engineering resource of their three thousand plus mostly 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.400 engineers on staff. They have a very small sales team 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:11.320 and they're looking right now to build you know, this 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.440 platform on somewhat of a bespoke basis for customer after 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:19.120 customer because like everyone has mentioned before me, it really 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.480 comes down to each individual use case, what data they 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.080 have access to and what you know, how they can 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.360 bring that forward with AI to too larger use cases 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.160 that are that are generative. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:32.720 Hey, you guys, I want to put this to both 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.680 of you. What's the company to watch when it comes 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.560 to AI right now? Is it feels like everybody that's right, 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.840 any earnings call, that's the words that have been dropped. 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:42.120 It's obviously not IBM. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.839 It's because Peers is we have new AI and the 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:46.559 stuff goes up twenty three percent ibs. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.040 We have new AI and the stock falls person. 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.559 To both of you was that you first is polunteer. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.400 The company to watch is it Microsoft? Who is it? 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.200 Let's see how they do and their results. Okay, you 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.559 know this is a platform that they still haven't figured 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:05.160 out a pricing strategy, Carp Alex CEO Alex Karp said, 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.199 our strategy is to take the whole market. They're building 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.920 it on the fly. They are pricing it as well 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.760 on the fly, and we'll have to see how that 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:16.640 works out in earnings. They have a big event coming 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.400 up at June first to say more about it, but 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:21.160 proof's going to be in the pudding. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.480 Andy, who are you watching? Who's the company that all 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.600 of us here at Bloomberg should be watching when it 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:26.360 comes to AI? 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:26.880 Is it? 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.880 Can we whittle it down to one person or one company? 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.080 No, But the company that I'm going to be watching 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.040 very closely is Google. Because a team at Google wrote 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:40.280 the paper in twenty seventeen that presented the architecture that 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.400 OpenAI is now using. 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.720 For GPT four and chat GPT. That was a Google innovation. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.160 They published it openly and another company has taken the 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.480 first steps with it now I don't have any inside information, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.080 but I'm pretty sure that Google is very keenly aware 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.440 of that and would like to get the momentum back 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.320 in the AI space, the generative AI space. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.680 They also have an extraordinarily deep. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.800 Bench of talent here, So that's the company that I'm 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.160 really watching with keen interest. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.120 I just wanted to ask what you and Eric are 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.679 up to now, you know, you know, what are you doing? 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.880 Andy, Eric and I talked about this stuff all day. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:18.880 We are the co founders of a startup that is 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.040 working in the generative AI space. We are plotting our 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.960 next book and our next research that Matt. These are 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:29.320 fascinating times. We haven't seen progress this fast with an 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.000 important technology in my career, and my career is long 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.320 enough to encompass the web and the smartphone and the 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.640 social web. This stuff is crazy, and it's getting better 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.040 so quickly, and more capable so quickly. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:46.439 Bigger than the Internet, bigger engine. 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.560 Compare it to I don't quite know. 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.599 Okay, it's up there, it's up there, pretty. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:53.520 Much just developed so quickly. 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.400 I know, well, well, actually AI has been around for 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.280 a long time. This is just a whole other level 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.720 and it just keeps getting right exactly. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.600 And we weren't expecting this particular leap this quickly. And 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.720 then the companies have demonstrated who are leading the charge 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.840 here how quickly their technologies get better. If you go 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.839 look at the images that AI can generate and you 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.040 go back just twelve months, you will see these staggering 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.040 improvements in the kinds of images they can generate in 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:20.319 response to a prompt. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.959 Sounds like it called them off guard as well as 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:23.280 the world. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.640 I actually saw AI make a trailer for a new 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.800 Wes Anderson version of Star Wars, and it's pretty impressive. 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.520 It is pretty amazing what we lost, Andy, Andy, come 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.160 back soon. We want to continue this conversation, both of you. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:41.200 Incredible Annie McPhee McAfee excuse me, co director, as we said, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.200 am I yes, yes, yes, MIT scientist and work Helix 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:46.840 co found I just want to get it right at 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:48.880 the MIT Slow School of Management and then of course 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.360 our thanks to our Lyzit Chapman VC and Startups Supporter. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.320 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.760 Bloomberg the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app or 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.360 wants us live on YouTube looking at the. 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.839 Global fresh fruits and veggie's market over one hundred and 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.320 forty four billion last year, forecast to grow to some 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.760 two hundred eleven billion by twenty twenty eight. So we're 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.400 talking about a lot of stuff. 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.560 It's also something I haven't really thought about it before. 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.240 But this is something that I buy almost every day, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.840 and you know, at least every other day, I find 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.760 myself at the supermarket down the street buying fresh fruit 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:33.200 and vegetables because you know, that's the stuff that you 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.120 have to You can't buy it and keep it for 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.720 a week or two like I do with like salami 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.800 for example, you know, or bread. So is this something 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.960 you have to keep going and getting all the time. Well, 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:45.199 I've never really thought about that. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:46.559 Well, we take it for granted, it's just going to 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.640 be there. Our next guest, though, doesn't take it for granted. 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.280 He's got a company that is working with buyers and 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.920 sellers in the fruit and veggie market, the fresh fruit 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.319 and veggie markets. Let's get to it with Patrick McCulla, 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.760 CEO of the Digital Marketplace for the Global produce industry. 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.000 We're calling and talking about produce pay he's here in 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.040 our studio. I'm good to have you here with Matt myself. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:07.959 Tell us about your company and what you guys are doing. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.320 Thanks Carol. Yeah, we're trying to solve a big waste problem. 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.800 So this is a one point three trillion dollar industry. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.240 It's analog still, it's push supply, and we're attacking sixty 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.120 six zero percent economic waste. Most people don't know this, 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.439 but forty percent of the harvested fruit and vegetables perishes 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.280 before it's consumed. How much forty percent? 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.640 I imagine if I buy a box of grapes, more 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.920 often than not they go bad before I finish them, 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.240 you know. And that's just at my home. So if 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.760 you talk about from the farm into the truck, ship 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.400 to the store and then to me, it's got to 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.240 be I mean, obviously it's very big. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.560 It is, and if you think about what can be 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.280 done about this. We offer access to market, access to 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.120 financial products, trade protection. So we're trying to help starting 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.640 with the farm, the ability to pull through for the 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.680 US consumerster fresher riper, healthier produce. 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:03.880 So where do you where do you start? 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:05.319 I mean, such a how do you do a huge 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.560 fragmented market, and you know, do you go to every 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:09.360 farm out there? 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.640 That seems like a very difficult communication. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:13.080 That makes us unique. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.000 We started with the farm. A lot of people attack 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.559 the middle, the wholesale distribution or some people think, oh, 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.440 the answers in retail grocery, and there's certainly problems to 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.760 be solved there. We believe the farm makes key decisions 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.440 and how they produce, how they grow. There's human rights, 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.760 there's water rights, and there's carbon footprint consequences, but they 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.800 also make decisions whether to let let's say, a grape 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.960 hang and become a Tier one grade a premium grape, 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.600 or if they don't crop thin and they take weight 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.960 to market and they do that through the open market, 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.920 then you've got speculators brokers that might be playing for 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.080 arbitrage who might hold onto those grapes try to corner 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.560 the market weight for prices to come up at the 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:55.760 expense of the US consumer. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.200 So how do you get to this? How do you 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:58.840 fix this? Because it sounds to me like to some 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:00.880 extent we need to MA Maybe I don't know, do 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.560 we need to reduce supply so there's not so much 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.200 out there that ultimately ends up as waste, Like how 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:07.440 do we fix this? 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.960 So you know, there's there's always an argument about, you know, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.600 world hunger and is it a distribution problem? And I 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.080 can tell you looking at the path to the US consumer, 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.400 one of the healthiest things we put in our mouths 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.800 has one of the dirtiest paths there. So if you 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.680 think about four to eight middle people actually touching produce 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.480 that don't always add value. There are some that add 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.880 great value if you're bringing capital to a farm or 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.640 to a distributor, if the distributor is packing, shipping with 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.760 quality control, brand recognition. But we're trying to lean out 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.120 the beginning and the end. We're trying to take out 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.560 the arbitrage specialists in the middle, these brokers that don't 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.280 add real value for the benefit of speed to the consumer. 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.440 If you can shorten that journey, how do you do that. 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.680 You do that by redesigning the whole vertical. 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.440 So in other words, it goes from farmer Joe or Jane. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.640 Straight to the idea is bring retail, grocers and farmers 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.400 together through our marketplace, through our financial and trade assurance products. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.720 A lot of what's happened in this industry is because 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.960 it's been rampant with speculators and a lot of volatility, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.560 worth the changes in our world, think weather, there's a 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.040 lot of inefficiencies built in a lot and a lack 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.680 of trust. We're trying to bridge the beginning and the 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.800 end for the benefit of efficiency and attacking that sixty 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:24.960 percent economic ways. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.119 So first of all, do you always wash fruit before. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:30.840 You eat it? Yees? Well, most of the time. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.360 My wife tells me to do it, but I feel 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.560 like most of the time I have a stronger immune 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:36.560 system because I don't. 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:39.680 I cater to that belief myself. 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.280 I don't wash my fruit either. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.800 So a lot of this is about financing, right right, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.400 because I look on your website says three billion plus 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.000 in fresh produce financed. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:49.000 What does that count? 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:50.880 I'm finding counterparties correct. 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:51.040 That's right. 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.800 So the biggest problem farms have is there if they 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.600 have tremendous input costs labor, seed, fertilizer, and they're waiting 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.280 for harvest five or six months later. We bridge that 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.920 working capital gap. That's our primary product today. But by 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.639 doing that super well and doing that with the best 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.720 farms in the world, we're able to then take them 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.919 to the right distributor marketer partners who will introduce us 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.480 to the right retailers. And then we can take the 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:23.000 speculative spot market out by creating programmatic negotiations where we 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:24.200 tell the farm. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.880 Great, So you are kind of, to some extent become 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.880 a financial middleman, but you take out the physical middleman. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:30.400 That's right? 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.720 Is that that's right? Kind of what you do. 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.359 We're redesigning how the industry works. We're asking retail come 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.679 earlier with fixed pricing so that farmers can plant and 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.920 take risks and breed the right programs that might perish 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:45.880 buying an EV. 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:47.280 You got to put the money up front, right. 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:48.439 So talk to us about the market. 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.560 I mean, I'm interested to know about price fluctuation shortages. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.720 Do you see you know our strawberry is gonna shoot 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.600 through the roof in terms of the price. Are we 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.320 going to be able to get grapes cheaper? What do 0:17:58.320 --> 0:17:58.960 you see out there? 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.720 Fires and chill a recently floods in California impact of 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.760 the strawberry market. So grapes and strawberries, Yes, supply and 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.240 demand is upset right now. So in the new term, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.119 we're gonna have premiums on those products. 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.240 Do nuts count as produced? Do you do nuts? 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.359 We don't do nuts today, but it's in our future. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.320 But patrick aren't we always going to have, you know, 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.880 disruptions in terms of prices because climate change. It's real, 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:19.400 that's right. 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.760 It is climate change, and it's the global nature of 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.639 what the US consumers asking for. We're asking for twelve 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.600 months a year organic blueberries. Well, we don't grow organic 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.879 blueberries in North America twelve months a year, so we 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.159 have to go to South America or South Africa to 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:33.159 fill in those voids. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:34.080 Do we stop that? 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:35.879 That's the question. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.960 Well do you stop that? You want fresh blueberries? You 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.800 probably go buy fresh blueberries or whatever you want. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:41.640 Okay. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.359 The dilemma is the out of seasoned blueberries hold a 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.439 premium because they're scarcer, so there's more money to be 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.000 made there. So I think this is a trend that continues. 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:52.119 Yeah. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.399 Also you've got to ship them from wherever they come 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.199 dirty diesel, cold stored into cold stories, so terrible for 0:18:58.240 --> 0:18:59.880