1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Let me go to the controversy section of Nora Ephron's 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: Wikipedia page. Actually there is none. I see no controversy section. Okay, great, 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: unproblematic queen. Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: we get yesterday's pop culture, today's takes. I'm ros Damnue 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: and I'm fran Dorato, and we hope you had a 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: lovely Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day, however you celebrated. Um, we 7 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: are jumping right into things this week. No news because 8 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, we were too busy, I don't know. Sucking 9 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: and fucking and eating chocolate or whatever. Those are the 10 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: things that people do on Valentine's Day, right They eat chocolate? Yeah, exactly, 11 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: And watch the Fifty Shades of Great trilogy and its entirety, 12 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: which is what we covered last year for Valentine's Day. 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: So go back listened to those episodes if you are 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: feeling spicy. But this week we are also talking about, 15 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: you know, someone who is very prolific when it came 16 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: to romance, but from a slightly different perspective, slightly This 17 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: week we're talking all about nor Fron, the prolific writer 18 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: director of such films as When Harry met Sally sleep 19 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: List in Seattle. You've got mailed Julie and Julia and 20 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: Queen of the rom com and as Fran just learned, 21 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: and as I learned ten minutes before that from looking 22 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: at her Wikipedia. She also co wrote Silkwood, which neither 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: of us have seen. Neither of us has have seen, 24 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: despite me being a devout share stand um, I've heard 25 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: it's actually good and Share plays a lesbian. There was 26 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: also a really great documentary about nor eron Um on 27 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: HBO a couple of years ago called Everything Is Copy, 28 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: which I did walk but don't remember a lot of Fran. 29 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: You you have claimed that you remember more of it. 30 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: So do you want to start off by giving a 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: little context about who Nora Ephron was? Sure? So, Nora 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: Efron is, you know, one of the better Neppo babies 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: in our Neppo baby cinematic universe. Her parents were screenwriters, 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: and she I think pretty quickly got into making films 35 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: UM after having a extremely prolific career as a magazine writer. Essentially, 36 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: so her work as an essayist was like immediately profound, 37 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: recognizable something that everyone saw after UM, and she did 38 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: it by simply like kind of captivating the world with 39 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: her own voice. And I think you see a Nora 40 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: Fron voice in her movies. Right, It's very like conversational. 41 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: It's from the first person perspective. It's like blunt and 42 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: funny and sometimes mean. And I think like sooner rather 43 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: than later, as she sort of took up this residency 44 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: at Esquire at a time when there weren't very many 45 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: like women writing for magazines, let alone for Esquire, she 46 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of just became this like thought leader, like a 47 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of socialite thought leader like um, if not intellectual, 48 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: that people were who were looking for and like looking 49 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: toward to like cultivate the culture. Like she was kind 50 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: of famous while she was alive. She was the Tolentino 51 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: of her time. She was she kind of she kind 52 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: of was. And it's funny like I actually, you know, 53 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: I haven't read like a ton of Nora Frans essays 54 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: and didn't buy like a compilation of her work when 55 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: she died or things like that. I actually only know 56 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: her from her movies, and I think that I personally 57 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: didn't know the life that she had outside of movies. Right. Um, 58 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: it's also so romantic, grows like so romantic compared to 59 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: like our experience in magazines, like you know, Nora Fron 60 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: was writing alongside like Gay Tolles and like that old 61 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: school generation of writers when like they would get paid 62 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of dollars to write one story totally yeah, 63 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: and that one story they would have like three months 64 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: to finish. You know, this was a different This was 65 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: sort of closer to Carrie Bradshaw's type of journalism. You 66 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: could where you could have a weekly column that kept 67 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: you in Manila obloics and you know, or Eron had 68 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: an even more idyllic version of that going on, not 69 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: like us where we were writing you know, like click 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: bait about Javins, nail polish, Yeah, no, no health insurance, freelancing, begging, 71 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: begging editors to give us like two fifty dollars to 72 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: write like a four thousand word essay, Um that to 73 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: do in two days. Um yeah. It's it's really definitely 74 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: a more romantic version of like what it meant to 75 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: be a writer before the Internet age. Um yeah. But 76 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: those are kind of I think the background things that 77 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: are important to know. Um As she kind of went 78 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: into her film career and became like the filmmaker nor 79 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: Efron as opposed to just the writer nor efron Um. 80 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: What about nor Effron, I guess, like, do you have 81 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: like a favorite movie of hers? Yes, And I have 82 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: argued about this with with my mother fairly recently. I 83 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: do think so. According to my mom, she thinks When 84 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: Harry Met Sally is the best romantic comedy ever made, 85 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: and I slightly disagree with that, and I think that 86 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: of her movies, You've Got Male is definitely my favorite 87 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: and part of the reason why I am drawn to 88 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: that as opposed to When Harry Met Sally. Even though 89 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: I love When Harry Met Sally. It's a fantastic movie. 90 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: But When Harry Met Sally nor efron wrote it, but 91 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: she didn't directed it, and she wrote and directed You've 92 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: Got Mail because she did. She didn't make her directorial 93 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: debut until with This Is My Life, and then for 94 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: the most part, she directed all of her movies, and 95 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: she co wrote most of her films with her sister 96 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: Deelia fron Um. But I think, like, obviously it does 97 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: kind of make sense that When Harry Met Sally is 98 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: written by a woman directed by a man, because like 99 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: literally the basis of the film is this question of 100 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: can men and women ever really be friends. But I 101 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: definitely preferred later in her career, when Nora Ephron was 102 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: writing and directing all of her films because they feel 103 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: so much more her vision in totality. Um, and I 104 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: think that's what I respond to. And I do think 105 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 1: You've Got Mailed is just a perfect romantic comedy. I agree. 106 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: I I honestly wish I had ranked, like thought to 107 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: like rank the Nora Evon movies that I had, but 108 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that that is my favorite too. I 109 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: love when Harry met Sally. I think like it is something. 110 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: It's a movie that like sweeps you off your feet 111 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: in a way that her other films don't. But it's 112 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: it's an amazing well both both it and You've Got 113 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: My Little amazing New York movies. Yeah, they are their 114 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: love letters to New York. And like Nora Afron was 115 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: a kind of classic new Yorker, like even her writing 116 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: style like sounds like New York, like her literal voice, 117 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: the infectiousness of her voice like sounds like what New 118 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: York sounds like. Is that corny to say? No, I 119 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: think it's true when Harry met Sally also has this 120 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: quality that's like I think if you simplified it, like 121 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: it could be a play. It could be a play 122 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: about these two couples. Because it is kind of about 123 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal and then Carrie 124 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: Fisher and whoever the guy is that she ends up dating. 125 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: There is something um like theatrical about it. But then 126 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: obviously like it's a much bigger story than that. I 127 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: I rewatched it last year because I was watching a 128 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: lot of rom coms last summer and it's it's such 129 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: a great movie. And like, obviously the thing everyone remembers 130 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: from when Harry met Sally is the I'll have what 131 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: She's having orgasm moment in Katz's Deli. But it's just 132 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: it's so clever, and so much of the cleverness is 133 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: in the writing, the specificity of the jokes. Um. How 134 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: actually like heartfelt it is? Um And of course you know, 135 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: the performances are amazing. I'm not like the biggest Billy 136 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: Crystal fan, although I do love City Slickers Billy Crystal 137 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: hot in this movie, Um, he's not hot, but he 138 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: there is that image of him in like the chunky 139 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: cabled its sweater that always gets tweeted like in The Fall. Um, 140 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, because it's very autumnal. It's well, it's a 141 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: very well, it's not a Thanksgiving movie, but it's a 142 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: very autumnal movie because the main action of the movie 143 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: kind of takes place from like summer to New Year's Eve, 144 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: which is when the movie ends. So it's it's super 145 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 1: autumn in New York, which I love. Which also I mean, 146 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: we'll get to You've Got Mail later, I think, but 147 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: You've Got Mail also has a very big autumnal quality 148 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: to it, although I think it's more of a spring movie. 149 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: Are all of her movies automn movies honestly, are anything 150 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: that Thanksgiving movie? To you? It was just like, yess 151 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: a Thanksgiving movie. I mean Sleepless in Seattle, I guess 152 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: is a little more winter. It's a little more winter. 153 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: I actually have only seen that movie once. Um, but yeah, 154 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: I gosh, I feel like I want to be Nora 155 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: f Fron. Is that like something that every does every 156 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: right or want to be nor every And it feels 157 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: like very natural to like want the trajectory and the 158 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: success and the kind of cool girl factor that she had, 159 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: Like it's I think, so I think a lot of 160 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: our friends who are writers are aiming for that kind 161 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: of trajectory because, you know, the I I think, not 162 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: knowing a lot about her life, I would imagine that 163 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: a big part of what launched her was the second 164 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: movie she ever wrote was Heartburn, which was adapted from 165 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: her novel of the same name, which was like a 166 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: sort of auto fiction novel based on her own divorce 167 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: when I think her husband cheated on her. Um. I 168 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: recently gifted the novel to my grandma for her birthday. UM, 169 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: maybe I should read it too, and she and I 170 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: can have a little book club moment. But it does 171 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: feel like so many of our friends who are writers, 172 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: so many people of our generation, especially people who come 173 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: from journalism, that is how they launched their careers. They 174 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: write memoirs, or they right sort of auto fiction e novels, 175 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: and then maybe those get like adapted or like get 176 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: like you know, huge like buzzy you know, internet success, 177 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: and then from there they go on and either like 178 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: write more novels or move into TV and film. Um. 179 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: And you know, that is kind of the north Front path. 180 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: It really is, especially when you're a Neppo baby. UM. 181 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: I God, I wish my parents were screenwriters. That would 182 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: have been so much easier, right do you think? Okay, 183 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: let's let's answer the question of when Harry met Sally, 184 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: do you think women and men can be friends? I 185 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: mean she also didn't and she also didn't take non 186 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: binary people into accounts, and when I was a man, 187 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: we were friends. M I feel like, um, honestly, I'm 188 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: literally I'm literally assessing the question. I'm literally as set 189 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: saying the question. Well, no, it's a very it's obviously 190 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: a question from you know, the gaze of the hetero patriarchy. 191 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: Oh see, yeah, Okay, wait what do you mean by that? 192 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: Because I'm like trying to evaluate it from like a 193 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,479 Speaker 1: heterosexual person in the nineties perspective, like Ken, well, not nineties, 194 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: this was in this Yeah, it was really the eighties. 195 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: So yes, if you're thinking about if you're a straight 196 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: woman in the eighties, can women and men be friends? 197 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: I guess is like a more real question. Yeah, yeah, 198 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: exactly from the lens of today, Like obviously yes, but 199 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: as Phoebe you just said in the chat, why would 200 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: she be friends with a man? She spilled you know, 201 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: it's funny because like Nora Fron was like a bit 202 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: of a quote unquote feminist icon. I and you do 203 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: feel like feminism imbued in her work, especially in like 204 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: a line like that, can heterosexual men and women women 205 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: be friends? I honestly can't think of a single example. Well, 206 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: I think the thing is that straight guys are always 207 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: trying to fuck literally everyone every woman around them. So 208 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: maybe from the woman's perspective, um, how is her work feminist? Her? Her? 209 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: She always writes these strong characters, these strong women, characters 210 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: that don't give a fun I'm not talking about I 211 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: don't think she was acclaimed as a feminist because of 212 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: her um screenwriting work. I think that by the time 213 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: she was writing for Esquire. So when she when she 214 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: was invited to write for Esquire, which at this point 215 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: in her career, she her her writing was already taking off. 216 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: They were like, what do you want to write about? 217 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: You can write about anything you want, which is like 218 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: an offer that like every writer would dream of from 219 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: the editor and Esquire. And she was like, I want 220 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: to write about women. And so she spent the whole 221 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: time writing from a women's perspective about women for men 222 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,119 Speaker 1: in a way that I think is like kind of profound, 223 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: and and and her angle, like when she was um, 224 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: when she was on this like cusp of like whatever 225 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: wave of feminism was happening at this time, with like 226 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: glorious with Gloria Steinham literally like she was like one 227 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: of Gloria Stadiams peers um. I think she felt like 228 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: feminist discourse at the time was like so unfun right. 229 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: She was like, no one is like willing to self critique, 230 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: no one's having any fun with it, no one is 231 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: being honest, like, no one is like kind of no 232 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: one's taking it there like I'm going to take it 233 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: there with feminist writing. And I think that her bluntness 234 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: and her willingness to say like yeah, like I like, 235 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: what's a stupid examples like she wrote this like this 236 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: this story about breasts and how women always want their 237 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: breasts to be bigger and like what's in what how? How? Um? 238 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: Yes exactly exactly as we pull out our heads like 239 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: and and she would write about like, oh yeah, like 240 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: I want my breast to be bigger, as does that 241 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: not make me a feminist? And like why are women 242 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: so insecure about hers? She was writing about insecurities a 243 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: lot of the time. I think you see that in 244 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: her films. I think I think you see that in 245 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: her essays. It's like kind of in her personality. She's 246 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: not afraid to self deprecate and to acknowledge her shortcomings 247 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: and to and to say like, yeah, like you know, 248 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: I want X, Y and Z. That might be superficial, 249 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: but this is what I want. And I think that 250 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: at the time, especially when you're in the middle of 251 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: movement work, you don't really want to acknowledge all your 252 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: flaws along with it. You don't want to add that 253 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: kind of nuance. And she did, right, she was like, 254 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: this is everything else we're bringing to feminism. Um, I 255 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: think I honestly like, that's just my guess. You you asked, 256 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: You asked the question, and I think that's kind of 257 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: how I understood it. I wonder what, I think it's 258 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: better if we don't know. I kind of yeah, I 259 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: kind of thinking she might be in in you know, 260 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: moving forward in her career, the next big film and 261 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: probably the thing that put her on the map as 262 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: as a filmmaker as well as a writer. Um with 263 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: Sleepless in Seattle, which probably for most people is like 264 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: the romantic comedy. Like I think when you talk about 265 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: the lexicon of romantic comedies, Sleepless in Seattle looms larger 266 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: than any although for me, I don't think it would 267 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: even be in my top five, maybe not in my 268 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: top ten. What top ten nor Aron movies? No, I'm 269 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: talking top ten romantic comedies. Oh, I was talking about 270 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: Nora Afron movies. Yeah, I would not be in my 271 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: act sual romcom ranking. You know, Sleepless in Seattle is 272 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: a great movie. I love the Rose O'donald's in it. 273 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: Um for anyone who you know has never seen it, 274 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: it's about um, this little boy who like calls into 275 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: a radio show looking for um a woman for his 276 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: dad and Meg Ryan looking for a woman. She and 277 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks fall in love somehow and then meet on 278 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: the umpire state ble to get the end of it. 279 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: It's it's It's sorry. This is the only thing I'm 280 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: contributing to the conversation. You want Tom Hanks's load in 281 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: this movie, right, like this is one where you are 282 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks, Um, not not in this movie the movie 283 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: that I want Tom Hanks's load in Splash One of 284 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: the Way, which which which for for like a virgin, 285 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: for like a virgin lore Splash was one of the 286 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: things that made us want to do this podcast, and 287 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: we recorded this test episode talking about Splash because we 288 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: went on we went on a vacation to Joshua Treat, 289 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: but it actually was sort of like a retreat to 290 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: like basically blot out on the deck of this podcast 291 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: and an excuse for us to write it off. Yes, 292 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: and Splash is one of my favorite movies, one of 293 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: my favorite rom coms, and Norah Fron famously wrote and 294 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: directed Splash. Well you know where Nora Efron is the 295 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: seed of this episode, but it's talking into a beautiful 296 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: garden that is more generally about and Splash is a 297 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: great romantic comedy starring Daryl Hannah and a young hot 298 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks. Load. I remember if I remember his butt. 299 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: I remember you pointing out his butt and being like, 300 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: look at his butt, and I was like, WHOA. I 301 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: actually did not expect that from Tom Hanks. It was 302 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: a bit of a dump truck. It's a it's a 303 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: very horny movie that he and Darryl Hammon has a 304 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: lot of something that's so baffling. He loves having sex 305 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: with her so much that he locks her inside of 306 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: like a hotel room or something like that. Doesn't he 307 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: lock the mermaid inside a room He like literally holds 308 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: her captive so he can fuck her. But that's not 309 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: how it's. It's it's some weird. It's some weird vibes. 310 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: That also also it stars a young Eugene Levy. No 311 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: Eugene Levy would get you his nose. It's about the nose. 312 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: Um wait, okay, that's some pretty good lore. Actually, like 313 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: wasn't I think the first things we ever watched were 314 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: Splash and then I think, oh my god, to a 315 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: Mrs Doubtfire episode because you know, it's one of my 316 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: favorite films. Okay, okay, okay, are there any other? So 317 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: there are fast forwarding a little further in in nor 318 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: Fron's career. Um is You've Got Mail in my favorite 319 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: of her films and definitely up in my like top 320 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: five romantic comedies of all time. Um it is a 321 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: for anyone who doesn't know and if you have never 322 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: seen You've Got Mail, I like literally can't believe you're 323 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. Um it's. It stars Meg Brian 324 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 1: as the owner of a charming little children's bookstore on 325 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: the Upper West Side, and she is um sort of 326 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: priced out of the neighborhood because a big bookstore, UM, 327 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: like a sort of Barnes Noble type store that is 328 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: run by Tom Hanks moves into the neighborhood and they 329 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: are secretly Internet pen pals and fall in love and 330 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: it is just the sweetest, funniest but also kind of mean, 331 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: like most New York and like specifically Upper West Side 332 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: ass romantic comedy. It's so nineties, but like turn of 333 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: the century nineties because of the A O L of 334 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: it all. Parker Posey is in it, UM and she's incredible. 335 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: Greg Kneer isn't it He's Meg Ryan's boyfriend at the beginning. 336 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle is in it. Dave Chappelle, Um, this movie 337 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: like captures like um. This this extremely specific era of 338 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: at least our lives like this generation's lives were. Then 339 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: the internet felt so new and scary and thrilling, like 340 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: like this. Sending your first emails like that was such 341 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: a Do you remember what they felt like? Do you 342 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: ever any idea what first email was or like, what 343 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: your first incidence is, what message was? No, but I 344 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: do have a lot. I have so many memories of 345 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: logging onto a O. L. And specifically to read fand fiction. 346 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: You know. This was so um, this was such an 347 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: important time for the formation of almost everything about my identity. 348 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: One of the few things that I can remember are 349 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: I remember having a girlfriend at the time. Her name 350 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: was Katie Crow. I was in seventh grade. I remember 351 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: chatting with her over email and writing like cute emails 352 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: to each other back and forth. And I remember taking 353 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: forever to decide the font and font color of my 354 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, and the background color, which was usually a 355 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: cloudy rainbow, which yeah, I think that, like that was 356 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: the thing that like I obsessed over. I was like, 357 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: what the fund is the font? And this was this 358 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: was the time of you know, children, our little gen 359 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: Z listeners if you exist, you know, this was the 360 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: time when you had one family computer that everyone shared. 361 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: Mine was our our house that we lived and had 362 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: an enclosed patio in the back and that's where the 363 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: computer was. And I would go out there like early 364 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: in the morning so I could log onto a well 365 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: and ten minutes later once I was finally online. After that, um, 366 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: then I would you know, read my little Buffy fan 367 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: fictions and stuff, um and chat with probably like you know, 368 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: fifty year old men who wanted to murder me and 369 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: you were just a little girl. It was just a 370 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: little quote unquote girl. Um yeah, I god, I just 371 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: I I miss when the Internet was like at this 372 00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: cusp um, I do you so long to do anything? Yeah, 373 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: But like our brains were better, Our brains were like 374 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: Nora Afron, that's honestly, like when I was exactly no, truly, 375 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: like are the Internet ruined our brains? That? I think honestly, 376 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: there's something a little nostalgic about It's so weird to 377 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: be nostalgic for a period that like we lived through. 378 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: But there is a nostalgia to the kind of cinematic 379 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: universe of Nora Afron's characters and this kind of pre 380 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: Internet purity that oh god, yeah, I'm just jealous of. 381 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: I like I missed that. I missed when writers didn't 382 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: have to write about the Internet. Like now that we're 383 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: in this like era of like work, like we can't 384 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: really have any of our conversations without acknowledging how social 385 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: media is influencing them or maybe like that it's like 386 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,479 Speaker 1: about social media or like about some viral trend in 387 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: some way, And I don't know, I missed this like 388 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: kind of cuspol analog time. Um, it is nice to 389 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: think about the Internet being something that you had to work, 390 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: that you had to work for, that you had to 391 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: put an effort to access, and that was actually a 392 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: barrier of entry for a lot of people. And I'm 393 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: sure at the time this movie came out, UM, this 394 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: was very much a novelty UM using the Internet in 395 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: this way. And like it makes sense that these the 396 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: leads of this film were like coastal elites, like you know, 397 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: sort of like intellectual like book people, um, who were 398 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: falling in love online. UM. But also I don't know, 399 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: like the idea of love letters and like, um, you 400 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: know mistaken identities is so romantic. But I do think 401 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: this film is PROBLEMATICUM. I mean it's enemies to lovers. 402 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: But then you know, halfway the whole twist is that 403 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: halfway through the film, Tom Hanks realizes that it's Meg 404 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: Ryan who he's talking to online because they're supposed to 405 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: meet I r L. And then he kind of like 406 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: uses his knowledge of her to get her to fall 407 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: in love with him I r L. And then you know, 408 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: by the by the end of the film when they 409 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: actually do meet, she says I wanted it to be you, 410 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: which like is a is a great line, it's so romantic, 411 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: but also like he fully manipulated and her. You know. 412 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: The thing is like if she didn't say that line 413 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: I wanted it to be you, the movie would have 414 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: such a different ending, like it would be I think 415 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: it would be easy to assume that she like hated 416 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: his guss and she's like, you're dead to me forever, 417 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: you know, like you needed her to say that in 418 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: order to have that little Well, she was clearly in 419 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: love with him by the end, but he was using 420 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: in their actual lives once they started spending time together. 421 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: He was using the information he got from her when 422 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: they were anonymous to get her to fall in love 423 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: with him. Maybe she knew it was him all time, 424 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: and she she wanted him to know these things. I know. 425 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. No, I don't think so either. 426 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, um this again with this movie, 427 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: like it feels like, oh god, I feel I don't 428 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: want to be a redundant because like in our Julie 429 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: Roberts episode, we were like, they don't make movie stars 430 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: like this anymore, but like I do feel like they 431 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: like there there aren't writers like nor Fron anymore. It's like, 432 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like she belongs to this 433 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: kind of internet cost generation of writers that like, we'll 434 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: just I don't know, I don't will never We don't 435 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: get writers that are so magnanimous and on every single 436 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: talk show the way nor Efron wasn't every single talk show, 437 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: and like was actually famous during her time. Well, I 438 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: think also what it is is that the um the 439 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 1: romantic comedy is kind of dead. Um. This nor Efron's um. 440 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: You know, heyday was the golden age of the romantic comedy, 441 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: which I would I would argue was really the nineties, um, 442 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: when we were like post sexual liberation and pre you know, 443 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: jaded internet era. Um. And she, you know, she was 444 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: the perfect writer for her time, Like there are these 445 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: ones in a generation people, I think. And of course, 446 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: like you know, she was speaking for a very privileged, white, sis, 447 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: hetero like elite idea of life and love, of course, 448 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: but you know it clearly did captivate a nation in 449 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: the world in a way. And so yeah, I think 450 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: she was she was this handah horvat one to be 451 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: the voice of her generation, or at least a voice 452 00:28:52,640 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: of a Generation. Her last films were two five Bewitched remake, 453 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: which actually watched kind of recently. I think On a 454 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: Plane really is Yeah, I mean it's awful. It's it's 455 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: so bad, but but it's still I mean, it's still 456 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: has like some charming dialogue and Nicole Kidman's charming. Will 457 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: Ferrell is just like woefully miscast. Kristin chenowis in it 458 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: and like she's great. Of course, Michael Caine's fab But 459 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: did you just it's you didn't like the movie? Is 460 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: there anything else? If you remember about it? It's just 461 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: like a bad framing of the movie. I think, like meta, right, Yeah, 462 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: it's about an actor, like a sort of like washed 463 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: up actor who's making a reboot TV show of Bewitched, 464 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: and it did kind of predict reboot culture. But then 465 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: an actual which gets cast in it and they fall 466 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: in love and it's just like stupid um. But then 467 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: her last film was Julia and Julia, which is I 468 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: think an incredible movie if you only watch the Julia 469 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: child scenes. Oh yeah, of course. I mean I've seen 470 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: the YouTube version called and Julia. That is the movie 471 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: with Amy Adams cut out of it. It's much better. 472 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: And totally watch the ball and Meryl Streep is incredible 473 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: as Julia Child. Okay, it should be said Meryl Streep 474 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: with Stanley Tucci. With Stanley Tucci very important. And I 475 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: love how how into each other they are, like they fuck, 476 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: they want to ravish each other. It's so cute. I 477 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: don't understand how there's that HBO Max Julia Child show 478 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: that that literally in the midst of everything going on, 479 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: HBO got renewed for a second season when we already 480 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: have kind of the definitive portrayal of Julia Child in media. 481 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: Meryl Street, Yeah, yeah, it really is. Um it doesn't 482 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,959 Speaker 1: it doesn't quite make sense, but you know, reboot culture, 483 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: it's going to happen. Well, okay, I want to talk 484 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: more about romantic comedies in general and like where nor 485 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: Efron fits into it, because you know, as we've said, 486 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: she does kind of she's the the part of the 487 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: romantic comedy landscape that's like very you know, like intellectual, 488 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: a little jaded, a little cynical, very New York very 489 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: you know, like coastal elite. I would say, like you 490 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: have fucking Nancy Meyers on one end of the spectrum, 491 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, she's making I would say, like more West 492 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: Coast romantic comedies, like big, big white kitchen comedies. Um. 493 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: And then nor Efron is like East Coast. You know, 494 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: she's making small you know, exposed brick kitchen. Um, still 495 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: still very nice kitch, still very expensive kitchen. So they're 496 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: they're the two coasts. Um. But you know, like like 497 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: their characters, I think there's like a shared cinematic universe 498 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: that their characters live in. I think so. I mean 499 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: I frequently kind of like lump Nancy and Nora like 500 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: in in the same kind of category in my brain, 501 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: even though the writing is so different. I am like 502 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: such a Nancy Meyers stand. Like, as I said on 503 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: the pod before, I love like, you know, movies about 504 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: like white women in crisis, like wealthy women who are 505 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: going through it emotionally. Um. But yeah, no, they're there. 506 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: I think West Coast East Coast is like the perfect assessment, 507 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 1: like there is something Nancy Myers movies are just sorry, 508 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: like so much more shallow, Like they don't they don't 509 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: have the voice Nora has. Like there Nora is, at 510 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: the end of the day, the thing that has stuck 511 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: with Nora through the entirety of her career and something 512 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: that we remember her for, even if we don't say 513 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: it explicitly, was like her voice, like she had a 514 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: very yeah the right the writing is Fancy does that 515 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: Nancy doesn't? You know? Um? But god, but think about 516 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: Nancy's She was like having so much fun. I want 517 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: to write any Myers movie not a Nora Afron movie, 518 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I wish, I do 519 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: wish that Julia Roberts had been in um, an Nora 520 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: Efron movie at something. But but Meg Ryan is so 521 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: is the Nora Efron protagonist? Like that is the kind 522 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: of woman she was writing, I don't know, just like 523 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: a white blood woman with short hair with with anxious 524 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: speaking patterns. Yes, um I am. I love Meg Ryan. 525 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: She was certainly a mother at some at one point 526 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: in the culture. Um and I will always love her, 527 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: especially for being the voice of Anastasia in the animated 528 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: film Anastasia. Oh God, I forgot about that. And that 529 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: movie was stacked. It had Christen Dunce, It had um 530 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: John qu Sack, Uh, Angela no no, Bernadette Peters, oh yeah, 531 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: and Angela Lansbury. Um that Kelsey Grammar, Um yeah, Meg Ryan? 532 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: Wait there was another really, oh Hankazaria? Yes? And then 533 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: who was who was Resputen? It was like Christopher Christopher Lloyd. Okay, Um, 534 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: have we already talked about how rest we need you? We? 535 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: Should we do an Anna station episode? Should we do? 536 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: Should we do our Russian Dynasty episode? Um? Sure? Have 537 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: you ever read we could we could do like a 538 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: non and Disney animated movie, um? Episode? Because I think 539 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: Anastasia is one of those movies that everyone thinks as 540 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: a Disney movie but it's not. And there were quite 541 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: a few of those in the nineties when others studios 542 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: started to get in on the animation game that Disney 543 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: had like sort of created a monopoly around. Have you 544 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: have you ever read about when Risputant died? Yes? Like 545 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 1: how like how he died? It's so crazy. He died 546 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: like he like got shot like three times and then 547 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: was like beaten to death and stabbed and thrown in 548 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: a river, like a frozen river. And that's how I 549 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: want to go. Yes, And and it didn't in That's 550 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do to you. But his body they 551 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: found that he died from like like freezing, like he 552 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: didn't die from the gunshot. Runs or stabbing or anything. 553 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's also crazy that when they adapted Anastasia 554 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: into a Broadway musical that I never saw, they cut 555 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: rascipute in from it, and his song is one of 556 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: the best songs in the film. I wonder why is 557 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,959 Speaker 1: it like too dark or was because? I think because 558 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: they did they didn't want it to be magical. Yeah, okay, 559 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: that's fair, which is boring? This fuck? Um? I remember you? 560 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: Will you watch season five of The Crown, the episode 561 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: about the Romanofs where they showed them all getting executed 562 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: at the beginning. Oh my, that episode is so gaggy. 563 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: They really pretty gay. Yeah, they popped a couple of 564 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: bullets off into the Romanofs. Oh my god, it's so sad. 565 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: Meg Ryan Love love her. Who are the other like 566 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: rom com diva is obviously Julia Roberts We've talked about. Um, 567 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer Lopez. Monster in Law is one of my favorite 568 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: rom coms. Would definitely be on the like top ten list. 569 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: Queen Latifa is a rom com diva. Last Holiday is 570 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: she really is? Although he was? She? Did she do 571 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 1: any other? Oh Rene Salwagger, Bridget Jones. I've never seen 572 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: Bridget Jones Diary. What I've never seen an Oh my god, 573 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: I wrong with you? Are those Christmas movies? Um? Yeah, 574 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: kind of. I always well, I always watch Bridget Jones 575 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: Diary in the period between Christmas and New Year's because 576 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: it starts on New Year's Day. So mate, we'll do that. 577 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: You know, at the end of this year, I can't 578 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: believe you've never seen Bridget jes Diary. It's going to 579 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: rock your world. Okay, we'll do an episode on it. 580 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: Let's do it done, and it's gonna be and you're 581 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,479 Speaker 1: gonna be feel insane when they talk about how fat 582 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: she is when she's like not fat. Wait, there are 583 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: jokes about how fat she is. Hold that she's like 584 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: fat and she's like, you know, she weighs like a 585 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: hundred fifteen pounds. God. There's been so much discussion about 586 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: how kind of romantic comedies are a lost art, and 587 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: we did we did touch on this, you know, in 588 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: the Julia Roberts episode, which definitely go back and listen 589 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: to that if you haven't heard it. But the era 590 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: of rom comms was also the era of movie stars, 591 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: and that's what a lot of these films were sold on. 592 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: By having these movie stars in the starring roles so 593 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: that it almost didn't matter what the movies were about. 594 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: People were coming to them to see these stars fall 595 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: in love over and over again. And we kind of 596 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: don't have that anymore. And now rom comms really are 597 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: the main place they exist is on streaming, and so 598 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, there's maybe something to be said about how, 599 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, streaming could create this like renaissance of rom 600 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: comms because they are you know, like cheaper to make 601 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: than big budget blockbusters than like Marvel movies, and they 602 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 1: might just not ever reach the same you know, highs 603 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: of popularity and like universal peel that the rom coms 604 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 1: of of yester year of year old he hot times times. 605 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, I think that a lot 606 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: of the reason that we don't have like the volume 607 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: of rom coms that we used to is has a 608 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: lot to do with streaming and with like kind of 609 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: the Marvel stuff. Just as you said, like, I think 610 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: that because the blockbuster movies are all actions now, it's 611 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: almost like these got scooted out. Um, maybe because the 612 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: movies of the two thousand's, like the late two thousand's 613 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: are like bad, like the romantic comedies were like not 614 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: on the level. It's just you feel like nostalgic for 615 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: like what a rom com used to feel like before 616 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: social media and before like millennials started making things like 617 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: Love Simon and like Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist like 618 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: like or or a five Days of Summer like that 619 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: that actually feels like But those are kind of romantic 620 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: drama das most you think they don't count it. You 621 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: don't think five hundred days of Summer that's a rom com, 622 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: isn't it. Maybe, Um, well, there really, there really is 623 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: a renaissance of romance, but it's happening in books. Um, 624 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, like there is a huge market now on 625 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: book talk for romance. You know, we've talked about like 626 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: all the those books with like vector cover art of 627 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: little cartoon people. Like that's the biggest part of the 628 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: book industry outside of like you know, huge sci fi 629 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: novels is romance, and a lot of them are being 630 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 1: adapted into TV shows and movies. But it is books 631 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: more than anything, um that are selling. You know. You 632 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: look at like the like Colleen Hoover, which I've never 633 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: read a Colleen Hoover book, but um, the Seven Husbands 634 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: of Evelyn Hugo bitch Um, Taylor Jenkins read Emily Henry, 635 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: who's whose books I like, although I've heard that her 636 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: book that's coming out this year is not very good. Um, 637 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: but these books are like are like romance first, and 638 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: then some of them are funny, and then some of 639 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: them are dramatic, and it's more about the romance of 640 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,879 Speaker 1: it all than the comedy of it. And I think 641 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: what what was so amazing about Nora Fron's work, and 642 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: I think why she maybe even haralded the age of 643 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: romantic comedies is that the emphasis I think was always 644 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: on the comedy and the characters, and the romance was 645 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: really the container for that. That's a good way of 646 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: putting it. Yeah, it's just like it's like the framing 647 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: is kind of what made I think, the framing and 648 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 1: the lens on it is like what made it so great. 649 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: I would like to see more queer rom colms, specifically 650 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: because like you know, we were all kind of tired 651 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: of the like sad gay period stuff and and like 652 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, I also talk a lot about how I like, 653 00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, gay historical erotica, but those are usually not comedies, 654 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: although sometimes they're funny, but they're not specifically comedies. I 655 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: also like, wouldn't even really call Red White and Royal 656 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: Blue a rom com what? No, I would call it 657 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,760 Speaker 1: a romance novel. I would call it a young adult 658 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: I would not young. I would call it a new 659 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: adult because that's like the categorization that exists now. I 660 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: would call it a new adult queer romance. Um, it 661 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: is funny, but it's not a comedy. Wait, Phoebe dropped 662 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: in the Chat Happiest Season as a roum? Did you watch? 663 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: Did we? Did we ever talk about that? Yeah? I 664 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: watched it when it came out. I rewatched it this 665 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: past Christmas season. Well, um, I was at my best 666 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: friend Ryan's moms for Christmas and she had never seen it, 667 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: so we watched it on Christmas Day. That bad. I 668 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's good. I think it's a 669 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: cute movie that that has problems. The problems are mostly 670 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: that one of the romantic leads is irredeemable, is irredeemable 671 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: and Christ and Stewart should end up with opry Plaza. 672 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,720 Speaker 1: But I still think it's a It's a well made 673 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: movie with some really good performances. Yeah, it is a 674 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 1: well made movie, and it does have good performances. That's 675 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: very diplomatic. The cannon of queer rom coms is so 676 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: small that you know, we kind of have to take 677 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: what we can get, and like I do hope we 678 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: get to the point where that's not true. I'm trying. 679 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 1: I'm putting in the work now to make sure that 680 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: you know the genre is expanded like I as as 681 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: I have alluded too many times, I'm in the process 682 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: of writing a queer romantic comedy and you know, look 683 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: out for that whenever I finish it plus probably two years. Um. 684 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 1: You you know you you've consumed a lot of roum 685 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,439 Speaker 1: coms as market research for this book. Did you learn 686 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: anything new? Well, not necessarily like market research. More I 687 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: want to write something that is like aware of the 688 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 1: genre it exists in UM and like I think tropes 689 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: are very interesting and like it's fun to riff off 690 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: of them and to acknowledge them and be aware of them. Um. 691 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: Did you learn anything new in this in this exploratory 692 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,479 Speaker 1: period about raum commas, specifically, anything you noted? Well? Yeah, 693 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: I think what I learned is that, you know, I 694 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: kind of had this revelation last summer, which is that 695 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: I was I was dealing a lot with um, worrying 696 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: that what I was writing was to the thinking that 697 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: I needed to make the story I was writing more 698 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: like general and like accessible to a wider audience. And 699 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: what I kind of realized was that, no, in making 700 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: my story as specific as possible, that is what would 701 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 1: make people want to read it. Um. And so that's 702 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: I think what I learned from watching a lot of 703 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: rom coms and also just consuming a lot of queer 704 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: media and kind of Bros in particular. Rose, Oh my god, 705 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: but we are not gonna we are not going to 706 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: speak about Bros. No, we don't. There's nothing left that 707 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: needs to be said about Bros. But God, do you 708 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: think Bros Is going to ruin it for the future 709 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: of all gay rom coms? Do you think that I 710 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: don't think will get a green light anymore? Okay, good, 711 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: because we need to make some movies. Rose, Yes, Um, 712 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: who would you want to play your love interest in 713 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 1: a rom com? Adam Driver? Definitely for a ent sure, 714 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: Adam Driver. Adam Driver in a transamorous relationship. That's all 715 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:59,760 Speaker 1: I've ever wanted. What about you? Um? Kiki Palmer Balmer 716 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: Stanley Tucci, Stanley Palmer and Stanley Tucci, and we like 717 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: form a polycule. Yeah, you're in a throuble with We're 718 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 1: in a May December. I'm now trying to imagine when 719 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: a March May December polycule. I'm trying to imagine Stanley Tucci. 720 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: We need a throuble rom com. Although I absolutely support 721 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: polyamory and throubles, I don't particularly like reading about them 722 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: because like, yeah, I'm very much drawn to like two 723 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: people being in love and like, but that's also just 724 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: kind of the way I was socialized. So I'm trying 725 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: to unlearn that there should be throuble representation in rom coms. Like, 726 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 1: we have never had a polycule rom com. We've never 727 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: had Well, what I always what I always wondered about 728 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,520 Speaker 1: the favorite is why didn't they just Why weren't they 729 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: just in a throuble? There are a lot of movies 730 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,799 Speaker 1: that are like, why aren't they just another terrible I mean, 731 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,240 Speaker 1: my best friend's wedding, Why aren't they just in a trouble? 732 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: That's true because I do think that Julia and Cameron 733 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 1: how to vibe. Yeah, but I always think I always 734 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: think everyone has a vibe and everything I watched famously, 735 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 1: do you think everything has a vibe? Um? And you 736 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 1: know what, I think nor Evron would agree with me. 737 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,799 Speaker 1: I honestly, nor Efron would be so problematic about polyamorous 738 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,319 Speaker 1: relationships if she were like problematic about a lot of things. Yeah, 739 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: thank god she like died before the internet like really 740 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: became a same. Don't say that's so horrible. We love you, 741 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: We do love you, but you probably would have hated 742 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: the Internet too. I mean you kind of did well. Anyways, 743 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: I was going to say, there needs to be Polly 744 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: representation in romances, like how come we have not had 745 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: like a Polly Disney princess, Like we need we need 746 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:57,919 Speaker 1: Polly Nora Efron movies. We need um, Yeah, we need 747 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 1: like not we have not reached the representation part of 748 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: the conversation. No, we have. We were fifty minutes. Representation 749 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:12,800 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Representation matters, and we need polycueles on screen 750 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 1: that we need. We need a Disney princess who felch is? 751 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: I want to see a rom come with Felching in it. 752 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: That's when that's when I'll know that we really have 753 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: reached Um. It's a queer utopia in media. Will you 754 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: remind me what felching is? I feel like when you 755 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: eat your own come out of someone after you've come 756 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: in them. How did you not know that the version 757 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,439 Speaker 1: the woman was too stun to speak? Have you never 758 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:48,480 Speaker 1: felt someone or been felched? No? No? No? Really? Well 759 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: you don't let you don't love come the way I 760 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: love come Bobe, Phoebe has Babe has felched. I really 761 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 1: I really wish, I really wished. I really wish that 762 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 1: I was on that level. Honestly, I honestly feel ashamed. 763 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,280 Speaker 1: I wish I had felched. Well, nor Evron. I hope 764 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: that before you left us you learned what felching is, 765 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: and I think you r I p nor Efron, you 766 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 1: would have loved felching. You can follow our burner account 767 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: at Like a Virgin Fine. We will be keeping you 768 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: updated on an extra special announcement on the coming episodes. 769 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: Um stay tuned for more surprises. Follow me at France 770 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: Squish go and follow Rose Dammo at Rose Damu anywhere 771 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,600 Speaker 1: you want on social You can leave us a review 772 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or rating on Spotify and Like a Virgin, 773 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: Isn't I Heart Radio Production? Our producer is Phoebe Unter 774 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etre Until next week, 775 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,320 Speaker 1: See you later versions. Bye,