1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: I had been in prison for twenty years, and at 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: that point I had a hope until the day when 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: my attorney informed me of a possible turn around. Having 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: condemned to die in prison. But he doesn't imagine all 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: of the time seeing that will opened for me, the 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: dream that I could get out kind of overshadowed everything 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: else and the other feeling that I had because of freedom. 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Then I got to sit and think, you know, well, 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: what if Ice comes and get me. 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: From futuro media and PRX, it's Latino usay, I'm Maria 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 2: in Josa Today. The story of Juan Castillo, an immigrant 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: who was condemned to die behind bars, but was given 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: a chance to leave prison, only to find this freedom 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: threatened again, this time by ice. 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: One. 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: Castillo came to the United States at the age of twelve, 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: that was over thirty years ago. He struggled to fit 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: in in Reno, Nevada, where he had settled with his mother. 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: By fourteen, Looking for a sense of belonging in his 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: new country, he joined a gang, and trouble soon followed. 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: After a shooting in a park in nineteen ninety five 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: that left a teenage girl dead, Jue got pinned with 23 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 2: the charges and was certified as an adult and sentenced 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: to two life prison terms without the possibility of parole. 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: He was sent to a maximum security prison for adults 26 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: when he was just sixteen, Condemned to live the rest 27 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: of his life and to die behind bars, a year 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: in one's life would take a turn. He decided to 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: dedicate himself to education, to art, and to studying the Bible, 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: and he's never wavered in maintaining his innocence. In twenty fifteen, 31 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: Nevada abolished life terms without parole for minors, so after 32 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: serving two decades, one was set to be released. But 33 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: more than five years later, One remains a prisoner, now 34 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement as ICE 35 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: seeks to deport him. He's not only fighting for his freedom, 36 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: he says, he's fighting for his life. 37 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: I cannot really understand what freedom is because I'm still here. 38 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: You can change the fertility, you can change the cell, 39 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: but it's still prison, and so feeling of being in 40 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: custody never left, of me being another number or different number, 41 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: never left. 42 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: After being sent to prison with no chance at regaining freedom, 43 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: one decides it wouldn't be the end for him, so 44 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: more than two decades later, behind bars, One still maintains 45 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: hope of a new and better life. Producer John Washington 46 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: has been speaking with One on an almost daily basis 47 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: for the last six months, and he brings us his story. 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: Officially, One is no longer in prison. He's in ice custody, 49 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 4: where he's been languishing for more than five years, most 50 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 4: of that time spent in one of the most notoriously 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 4: brutal immigration detention centers, Edwa County Jail in Alabama. I 52 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 4: asked One if ice detention feels any different than prison. 53 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: He actually is a little bit worse to would be 54 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: in prison, because in prison, you have certain freedoms, you 55 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: have life, you know routine. Here you can't have none 56 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: of those things because I'm in a concrete Bucks County 57 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: jail where we don't get to see the sun night. 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 4: I first connected with Juan last summer after I'd done 59 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 4: some previous reporting on Ottawa. Juan and I communicated in 60 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 4: a number of different ways. He could call me from 61 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 4: his tablet, but the sound was never very good. Plus 62 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 4: his cell and the unit he was in were pretty noisy, 63 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 4: so he took the carl We have questions that I'd 64 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 4: send to him all at once, and then he would 65 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 4: record his answers late at night on an MP three 66 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 4: player he had. He'd download the recordings onto a prison computer, 67 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 4: put them on a thumb drive, and then finally send 68 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: them to me in a huge batch. Sometimes he told 69 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 4: me he couldn't record them because one of his sealis 70 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 4: snored so loudly. Still, he managed to send me hours 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 4: and hours of tape, some of which you'll listen to 72 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 4: today as he walks us through his fears and frustrations, 73 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 4: as well as what keeps him not only alive but 74 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 4: despite it all hopeful. But first, let's listen to Berta 75 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: Kuan's mother. She explained to me why the family had 76 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 4: to flee their nativel Salvador. 77 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 5: Sali for. 78 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 6: See whom Malayai one in his fan. 79 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 4: They were cut between the murderous Salvadoran state forces supported 80 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 4: by the US and the advancing guerrilla front during El 81 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 4: Salvador Civil War, which lasted for over a decade until 82 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 4: the early nineteen nineties. One wasn't quite ten at the time. 83 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 4: His mom, fearing they would be killed, decided they needed 84 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 4: to flee the country. 85 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 3: Supporter to so. 86 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 4: Pale. 87 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: We don't don't know. 88 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 7: Your paparaka. 89 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 4: Amid burning bodies, forced conscription, and an ever tightening circle 90 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 4: of violence. His mother laft first and then sent back 91 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 4: for Juan. 92 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 8: Fortunately, again, I go through what most immigrants go through. 93 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 8: I'm migrated from their country to hear. I was fortunate 94 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 8: that I was brought on a great home bus all 95 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 8: the way from San sal Babo to go to Texas, 96 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 8: actually all the way to Vegas. My trip lasted six 97 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 8: days and I did not stud for anything. I was 98 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 8: broad with another kid's papers as if I was him. 99 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 8: I guess I looked a little bit like him. 100 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 4: But if entering the US was an easy ride for Juan, 101 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 4: adapting to his new life would prove much more difficult. 102 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 8: I was a twelve year old kid faced with the 103 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 8: challenge of learning or having to learn your language in 104 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 8: order to communicate. I started going to school, and the 105 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 8: American kids they would accept me. That was the only 106 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 8: spoke English. They didn't sound nothing different than me, but 107 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 8: the one that did speaks Spanish. They saw my accent 108 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 8: some type of reason to dislike me. 109 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 4: That's when one began to feel and act like an outsider. 110 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 8: It began to get into troll because I didn't understand 111 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 8: why I wasn't accepted. But in the end, I stopped caring, 112 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 8: and I think that's where the problem lies. Because I 113 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 8: didn't talk to nobody. I was a very introverted boy, 114 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 8: you know, and so I wouldn't really express my feelings 115 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 8: to my mother. When I got home, I was one 116 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 8: of those kids, Everything is fine, you know, I'm having 117 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 8: fun in school and that was out. But inside I 118 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 8: know I was being eaten now by my own conscience 119 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 8: and satan is because I didn't understand why I just 120 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 8: could not be accepted. And so another kid, months later 121 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 8: in junior high, came from California. My best friend became Carlos. 122 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 8: He came with the idea that there were people that, 123 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 8: you know, that God could accept me, that there were 124 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 8: people that would be like me, you know, people of 125 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 8: our own peers. And so that's how the whole idea 126 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 8: of a street gang was born in my heart, in 127 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 8: my mind at the age of fourteen, exactly a year 128 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 8: is something after I came from Massapador and during the summer, 129 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 8: that's when I made the decision to join a street gang. 130 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 8: A few months later, my last my best friend cardinals, 131 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 8: he was murderer and that Drywy shooting, and then five 132 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 8: months after that I got involved with the shooting, which 133 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 8: is what brought me to prison. I did not last 134 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 8: that long out there on the streets, as you can see, 135 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 8: and so this is all I have known all my. 136 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 4: Life, the shooting. There's a lot to dig into, but 137 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 4: not a lot that one can say. The problem is 138 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 4: that if he's ever released by ICE, which wants them 139 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 4: for his unlawful entrance and continued presence in the US, 140 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 4: he'll still be on parole for his criminal charges stemming 141 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 4: from his nineteen ninety five arrest. So Wan didn't want 142 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 4: to go into details with me, and possibly in perilous parole. 143 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: His former criminal attorney both counsel them against discussing it 144 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 4: and decline my request for comment. What I know, from 145 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: what Juan did decide to share, from talking to his mother, 146 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 4: and from my own research, is that on August thirteenth, 147 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five, in Reno, there was a shootout at 148 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 4: a park between two rival gangs. What seems to have 149 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 4: been a stray bullet caught a twelve year old girl 150 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 4: in a head and she died. Whether or not it 151 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 4: was Wan's bullet. I don't know, but he insists that 152 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 4: while he did pull the trigger that day, he never 153 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 4: aimed or fired in the direction of the girl. The 154 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 4: Innocent in Prison Project International, an organization that supports people 155 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 4: who claim they were wrongly convicted, took up his case 156 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: a number of years ago, declaring his status as quote 157 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 4: possibly not guilty. A few details point to this possibility. 158 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 4: His actions in the following days, according to Juan, his 159 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 4: mother and court records, seemed to be those of someone 160 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 4: who either didn't know that a person had been killed, 161 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 4: or at least had no sense that he might be 162 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 4: responsible for the killing. 163 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 8: After being wanted as a key witness, I was wanted 164 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 8: for amazed prospect, and after that I was arrested. I 165 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 8: was booked and certified as an adult, although I was 166 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 8: only fifteen. A year later, so I went a trial. 167 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 8: I was convicted of first degree murdered, as they call it, 168 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 8: a homicide, and sentences to consecutive life term without the 169 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 8: possibility of parole. The day was sentenced, I remember that 170 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 8: I didn't quite understand what the sentence meant. I couldn't 171 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 8: grasp the length of it. I remember I went back 172 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 8: to County and when I entered my unit, the friends 173 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 8: that I had made in there looked at me and 174 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 8: they had a face of sadness, a hopelessness, because they 175 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 8: didn't have any words to come for me. And I 176 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 8: was confused. I would ask them, what's wrong? Why are 177 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 8: you looking at me like that? And I remember one 178 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 8: of them approached me. He said, you're never going to 179 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 8: get out. I looked at him and I said, what 180 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 8: do you mean? And he says, you don't know. I said, no, 181 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 8: what are you talking about. He said, the sentence that 182 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 8: you have received. He's going to keep you in here forever. 183 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 4: He sent to Ely State, a maximum security prison on 184 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 4: the other side of Nevada from Reno. 185 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 8: I looked at the unit and he was quiet at first, 186 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 8: and I didn't know anybody. That's when he started dawning 187 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 8: on me that I was going to spend the rest 188 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 8: of my life in that place. It was a feeling 189 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 8: of despair, you know, it was a feeling of losing oneself. 190 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 8: I don't have to describe it. It was like everything 191 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 8: that meant something in my life was gone, just like that, 192 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 8: Anything meaningful that I could have ever done, that I 193 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 8: wanted to do, that I could have wished to do 194 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 8: or become was gone for me. 195 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 4: All that want had left for him was time, time 196 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 4: to think and moll over all that he would never 197 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 4: have a chance to do in life. 198 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 8: To kill time, I began doing what most people in 199 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 8: MAX do, which his pace back and forth in a 200 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 8: I believe it was thirteen feet long and six feet 201 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 8: wide cell and only twelve steps as I would walk 202 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 8: back and forth as to remember that. And it is 203 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 8: in those moments at nighttime that I would turn my 204 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 8: letter out and I will be in complete darkness, and 205 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 8: I would think how badly I had messed up. I 206 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 8: would think about the family that was outside. Now. I 207 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 8: was lucky. There were many things that I could have done, yes, 208 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 8: but I didn't do them, and so would have should 209 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 8: have gout of was too late for all of that. 210 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 4: Just a couple of months into his life sentence, one 211 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 4: joined another gang, a prison gang. It was the only 212 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 4: way he could survive, he explained, and after getting into 213 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 4: a violent skirmish, which was unavoidable, he told me he 214 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,479 Speaker 4: was sent to the whole to solitary confinement. 215 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: I had the strength seventeen and when they took me there, 216 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: I was on the boxers, and I was really very 217 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: very cool, We'll go to a yard. But I didn't 218 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: have any proper clothing to go out, so I would 219 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: stay in the cell the whole time, and that almost 220 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: drove me banana. But I got to reading all the 221 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: books that I couldn't Spanish. 222 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 8: I got. 223 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: I went to the catalog in the prison library, and 224 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: I read all the books that I could, and as 225 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: I tried reading an English book, and then I got 226 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: to the first space, and it just gave me too 227 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: much trouble, too many problems reading. I could not understand 228 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: the words, and so I threw the book, threw it again, 229 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: got the war and I just sat there concentrating the 230 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: book for a moment, and then I told myself I 231 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: had to learn English because this is just not right. 232 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 4: Inadvertently wanted started to find ways to stay entertained, stay sane, alive. 233 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: Fellows that I hung around with in there, they would 234 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: tell me, what are you doing? You know the world 235 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: gave up on you. Why are you trying to educate yourself. 236 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: There's no point in you trying to do something now, 237 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: because you're going to be here for the rest of 238 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: your days. You're going to die in here a. 239 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 4: Few other lifers, men condemned to die in prison, killed 240 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: themselves in those early years of Huan's turn. Que didn't 241 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 4: want to become one of them. 242 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: And I made a decision that I was not going 243 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: to end up like them, that even though I was 244 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: never going to get out, I could be a better person. 245 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: I could educate myself. I begun having this thirst for knowledge, 246 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, and so I begun memorized, you know, English 247 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: works and their context and how to apply them and 248 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: the proper usage of them, until I got to the 249 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: point that two years later where I could actually speak 250 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: English quite well. 251 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino usay, Ice crushes One's dream of 252 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 2: freedom by warehousing him in one of the worst immigration 253 00:15:40,120 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: detention camps in the country. Stay with us, Hey, we're back. 254 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: One finds a way to hold on to life through education, 255 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: through the arts, and through God. But after serving over 256 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: two decades for a crime he insists he didn't commit, 257 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: he's about to be released, and then Ice locks him 258 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: up again. Here's one and producer John Washington. 259 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 4: Against all odds, during a year long stint in solitary confinement, Jue, 260 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 4: only seventeen, decides to make the best of his life, that. 261 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: Was going banana. Because in isolation, especially if you don't 262 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: have a radio to listen to other voices or a 263 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: TV to distract you, you go crazy. And so I 264 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: guess I could have actually worked negatively in my life. 265 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: But that was actually what pushed me to go that direction. 266 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: A whole worrib opened up for me. You know, I 267 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: began a loving history, which I never loved before. You know, 268 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: I love ancient literature. You know, I've begun, you know, 269 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: reading about all these great writers, you know, in English literature, 270 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: you know from the seventeen eighteen hundred I read, you know, 271 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: Gain Austen's books, you know, I read you know, other books, 272 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: No Thomas Hardy and great English writer. And once I 273 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: learned that there was a different world in the books, 274 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, in my miserable reality, I would say that 275 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: I would get lost in education. You know, I learned 276 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: that you begin to see life differently. 277 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 4: But despite the new life he was living through books, 278 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 4: he was still in prison. In fact, he was still 279 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 4: a minor in prison. 280 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 8: These people started five minus an adults sem to an 281 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 8: adult prison. But in there they treated me like a miner. 282 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 8: For example, when I went to give me a pack 283 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 8: of secret you know, me feeling like a man that 284 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 8: I was not yet they will refuse to sell me 285 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 8: the pack of secarets because they claimed that I was underage. 286 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 8: Oh my god, I used to piss me off so much, 287 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 8: you don't even know. In the same year, in nineteen 288 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 8: ninety seven, when I was in the home, I had 289 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 8: a couple of pencils with me, and so one day 290 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 8: I was looking at this magazine. It was a low 291 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 8: writer magazine, and his model lady and I liked her face. 292 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 8: So I picked up a pencil and I started scribbling, 293 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 8: you know, on the paper, trying to make some minds. 294 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 8: After a minute, I noticed that I could draw her face. 295 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 8: Of course I didn't do it. It's not a good job, 296 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 8: but I did decently, and I discovered that I had 297 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 8: a passion for art. And ever since that moment, I've 298 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 8: begun drawing and I got better and better. 299 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 4: And those with a lot of reluctance one also soon found. 300 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 8: God, this is ninety nine, I think, yeah, ninety nine. 301 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 8: When I was at NSP and when I stay in prison, 302 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 8: I met a friend there, a white guy, and he 303 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 8: was studying the Bible on the floor and not like 304 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 8: a kid, you know, So I wasn't a Christian at 305 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 8: the moment. I told him, what are you doing? The 306 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 8: heck are you doing? And he says to me, I 307 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 8: studied the Bible. I'm a Christian, you know. And I said, huh, okay, 308 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 8: that's good for you. And at the time, I was 309 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 8: angry with God, and I was angry with everybody. I 310 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 8: hated the whole world. And well, I got to back 311 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 8: to Max and I when I ordered my first Bible 312 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 8: from that chaplain, but I couldn't understand nothing of what 313 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 8: it was saying except the passion of the Christ, the 314 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 8: only story that made sense to me of the whole Bible, 315 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 8: and the call out to me. 316 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 4: To fill up his time and to cultivate his mind. 317 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 4: One also began to study French and got certified as 318 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 4: a paralegal and as a forklift operator. 319 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 8: What drove me inspired me to do all that I 320 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 8: did while I was in prison, It's a mystery, you know, 321 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 8: because in reality, I had no reason to better myself. 322 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 8: I had no reason to no inspiration whatsoever. I would say, 323 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 8: my love for life. That's what drove me to learn. 324 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 8: That's what drove me to do the right thing, even 325 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 8: though the world had given up on me as I 326 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 8: saw it, and I had no hope of ever getting out. 327 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 8: I told myself that I could be different and I 328 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 8: could be better even in that worst of situation. So 329 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 8: this is what my world sounds like now on a 330 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 8: daily basis. Right now is at nighttime. Everybody's playing cards 331 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 8: and playing soccer ball at Dalla small yard. People are 332 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 8: playing dominoes, watching TV, galling, screaming, conversing evening time. For 333 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 8: the most part, I expended in myself because there is 334 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 8: not much for me to do out there. I don't 335 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 8: really watching TV because I've seen most of the movies 336 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 8: they play here. I'm not interested in playing cards, poker 337 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 8: and all that. I mean, I just don't like gambling, 338 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 8: so I never have. And domino is fun for a 339 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 8: few minutes, but after that I get tired and I 340 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 8: get bored in soccer ball, well, I don't want any injuries. 341 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 8: And right now it's kind of fairly quiet. He usually 342 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 8: he usually gets a little louder than this. 343 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 4: That's one speaking to me from Edawa, despite freedom being 344 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 4: dangled over his head. When Nevada abolished life without parole 345 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 4: for miners in twenty fifteen, I just didn't let him 346 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 4: take a single breath As a free man, I. 347 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 8: Have been praying to God as much as I had 348 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 8: in order to be released one day, and this dream 349 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 8: now had come true. I remember I used to tell 350 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 8: my mother the meal that I wanted when I went home. 351 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 4: Here's once mom describing the meal of fried fish and 352 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 4: soup that she was hoping to cook for him. 353 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: Well, Joca comeeru escallo frio. 354 00:22:53,320 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 8: So so, and sadly you know that they never came, 355 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 8: because I went and got me right out that gate. 356 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 4: From the prisoners, I've reported in Itawa, where want to 357 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 4: spend over four years in ICE attention a number of times. 358 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 4: Everything I've ever heard about the place is terrifying. It's crowded. 359 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 4: ICE detainees are sometimes mixed in with people accused of crimes. 360 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 4: There have been reports of guards mistreating and sometimes physically 361 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 4: abusing people detained there, as well as smuggling in phones, drugs, 362 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 4: and other contraband. A handful of people accused ICE of 363 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 4: threatening to infect them with COVID if they didn't sign 364 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 4: their deportation papers. Above all, the most common complaint is 365 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 4: about the food. 366 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,959 Speaker 8: I don't eat the food that we get here. Because 367 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 8: it misses out my stomach. So I have given us 368 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 8: an apasta said, expired food, food that is rotten. They 369 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 8: do give us a couple of meals once in a while, 370 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 8: like chicken, but after that everything else it is horrible. 371 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 4: The food situation Edawa made national headlines in twenty eighteen 372 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 4: when the Edawa County sheriff was caught pocketing three quarters 373 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 4: of a million dollars in public funds meant for jail food. 374 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 4: He used the money to buy a new beach house 375 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 4: well in Edawa. Juan showed me on a video call 376 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 4: what lunch looked like one day, basically like a dog 377 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 4: hat puked on some noodles. I tried twice to send 378 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 4: Juan a book he asked for, Thomas Hardy's Tests of 379 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 4: the Durbervilles. The book is Juan's favorite, about a young 380 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 4: woman dealt an unjust hand who fights her whole life 381 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 4: for her rights. The idea was that we'd read it 382 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 4: together two times. Their book was rejected at Edawa. When 383 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 4: I finally got Mike O'Bryant on the phone, the sheriff's 384 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 4: officer who manages the ice attention side of the jail, 385 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 4: to ask why Juan wasn't getting the book. He said 386 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 4: there's no packages period. I asked when that policy had 387 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 4: been implemented and why, and he hung up on me. 388 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 4: I talked with Jan's attorney, Mike Kagan, who represents his 389 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 4: immigration case, about what Edawa was like. 390 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 5: I know it epitomizes all of the worst of immigration 391 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 5: detention in the United States, so warehouse for human beings, 392 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 5: and Juan has been there an exceptionally long period of time. 393 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 4: Fabio Melo, the immigrant justice organizer for Adelante, Alabama Workers Center, 394 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 4: is also familiar with Edawa's food situation. 395 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 6: And so they rely a lot on commissary money so 396 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 6: they can buy something different and eat and often enough, 397 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 6: like you know, we try to support them with that. 398 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 4: Ramen twice a day is what Juan almost exclusively relies 399 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 4: on for his calories. He never gets fresh fruit or sunlight, 400 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 4: and his health has deteriorated significantly in Edawa. I've been 401 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 4: in touch with other folks locked up there as well, 402 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 4: and sometimes get calls or leaked photos about something of 403 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 4: all that's happening. One day, someone I never talked to 404 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 4: before called me, telling me about a guy who got 405 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 4: beat up so badly in Edawa. He spent three nights 406 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 4: in the hospital. 407 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 9: When the protos he hoped I could help, but there 408 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 9: wasn't much I could do. 409 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 4: I passed along information to some advocates, and I asked 410 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 4: ICE and Edawa officials for a comment. But that kind 411 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 4: of abuse in immigration detention centers disturbingly happens every day. 412 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 4: There wasn't enough for a story. Here's Fabio again, summing 413 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 4: up the reality of Edawa again. 414 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 6: I think that Edawa shows the reality of this country, 415 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 6: nothing less, nothing more, you know, like you see the abuse, 416 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 6: you see the discrimination, the racism, everything inside there, this 417 00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 6: place is horrible. 418 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty, Edawa became one of the many hotspots 419 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 4: for COVID nineteen, and when the staff dangerously continued to 420 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 4: expose those locked inside, detainees rose up in protest. One 421 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 4: sent me a video of detainees taking over his unit, 422 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 4: tying sheets around their necks like nooses and threatening suicide 423 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 4: if they weren't protected from COVID spread. 424 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 8: I became very ill and I was for quarantine. I 425 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 8: was placed together with the other thirty five inmates in 426 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 8: the Shoe, which is a punishment unit, and we were 427 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 8: treated as we were in disciplinary sanction of segregations, and 428 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 8: we went to the very filthy unit. I myself had 429 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 8: to use my own shampoo to clean, you know, all 430 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 8: around myself. Before that, I was a very healthy man, 431 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 8: very healthy forty year own man. Now on my lungs, 432 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 8: I guess they're telling me that I have asthma and 433 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 8: how to use in hilary day in no spray to 434 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 8: open up my naisals canals in order for me to breathe. 435 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 8: I still have difficulty with my lungs every day. 436 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 2: When we come back, One becomes a spiritual leader, focusing 437 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 2: much of his time on helping others find peace and 438 00:28:21,840 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 2: find God. That's coming up, not yes, hey, we're back. 439 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: As One adapts to the grueling life of immigration detention, 440 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: an unexpected transfer and another threat of deportation push him 441 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 2: to the edge. Here are One and John Washington with 442 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 2: the final part of the story. 443 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 4: When Juan and I started talking last summer, it had 444 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 4: been over a year since he had contracted COVID. He 445 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 4: was still suffering and seeking release on medical grounds, but 446 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 4: he was repeatedly denied for the past six months. One 447 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 4: has also been asking for a vaccine but hasn't gotten it. 448 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 4: Still he does his best to preserve his quote unquote 449 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 4: normal life in nice attention. That's the noise of Juan 450 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 4: giving a fellow detainee a tattoo. 451 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 8: My first attoo was a horrible one. I don't even 452 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 8: want to talk about that one. But then I developed 453 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 8: in my skills. I was able to sharpen them, and 454 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 8: I begun tattooing good stuff. You know, I've begun doing portraits, 455 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 8: and now why I'm good at that too. Now I 456 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 8: can pretty much do whatever, you know, anything that I 457 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 8: can see or imagine, I can draw, I can paint, 458 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 8: and I can, you know, tattoo. 459 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 4: Over the past twenty plus years, I wanta tattooed hundreds 460 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 4: of fellow prisoners. But it's the Bible and Bible study 461 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 4: that's what one consistently concentrates on. 462 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 8: I mention my favorite verse songs thirty verse five. He's angry, 463 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 8: but for a moment, his favor is for a lifetime. 464 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 8: Weeping may endure it for the night, but joy comes 465 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 8: in the morning. That is my most comforting and has 466 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 8: been my most helpful verse of the Bible. And many times, 467 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 8: because as you know, I have gone through loneliness, I 468 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 8: have learned what it means to to see everybody you 469 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 8: know leave you and you yes, by yourself. There may 470 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 8: be weeping, there may be a lot of saddness, heartbrokenness 471 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 8: and despair, you know, but then you know, in the morning, 472 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 8: you know that the sun rises and you day begin. 473 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 8: And that's pretty much what happened to me. I'm gonna 474 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 8: made the decision to just be what it tells me 475 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 8: to be, which is a follower or disciple of Christ. 476 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 8: And I'm gonna put, you know, all the words into actions, 477 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 8: and that's really what it is all about. And so 478 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 8: that's when I wrote the note. 479 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 4: The note que is talking about from two thousand and 480 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 4: four is what he wrote to his former gang members, 481 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 4: telling them that he had found God, that he was 482 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 4: no longer one of them. He didn't want to air 483 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 4: the name of either of the gangs he was a 484 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 4: part of, but explained that he wrote them. 485 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 8: To let them know that from that day four where 486 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 8: I was going to live my love as a Christian 487 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 8: and no longer under their type of mentality, you know. 488 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 8: And so that's when I you know, I remember I 489 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 8: went to the yard and it was a cool day. 490 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 8: He was snowing, wet snow, and I was really cool. 491 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 8: But that's when I met on my mind and I said, 492 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 8: I told myself, you know, I'm going to change my 493 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 8: life and I never go back. And it seems like 494 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 8: pleasing after pleasing were coming my way. 495 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 4: After that, he became known as the chaplain. 496 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 8: They called me the chaplain because I'm the one in 497 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 8: charge of, you know, the Christian services, and I'm the 498 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 8: only one pretty much directing Bible studies in here. We 499 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 8: have an official chaplain or the jail, but he never 500 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 8: really comes around. And it's good for them. It's healthy 501 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 8: for them and not to have it because it gives 502 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 8: them hope, it gives them peace. So I am able 503 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 8: to help them, you know, through this time of this 504 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 8: very difficult time. I work with their families. I am 505 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 8: able to calm them down and give them a little 506 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 8: bit of hope and encourage them to go forward. And 507 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 8: I'm hoping that it's not just as they call it 508 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 8: out there, you know, a jail faith, you know, but 509 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 8: it's something that is able to stay with them permanently. 510 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 8: Because he has changed my life, you know, and so 511 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 8: I know that he can do it for them too. 512 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 4: They only do it from the heart, you never know 513 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 4: what's coming in prison. You have no control. You have 514 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 4: to be on your toes. As one put it to 515 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 4: me repeatedly. Last November, I got a call and I 516 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 4: could tell right away something was up. 517 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 8: Yesterday, November the third, in the morning, I was awakened 518 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 8: and told to go downstairs to have a COVID test taken. 519 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 8: When a nurse came to me and I asked her why, 520 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 8: she said, well, we usually do this when detennee comes 521 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 8: into this facility and when he is about to leave 522 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 8: be tranferred to another place. So I went to check 523 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 8: on my account. I had a Kiosk where we owed 524 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 8: the store, and I found out that yeah, in fact, 525 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 8: I was being moved because my account had been closed. 526 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 8: So immediately I began to bomban you know, person is 527 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 8: nervous every time you kind of get moved and go 528 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 8: to the unknown. Also understand that I spend a lot 529 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 8: of time in prison and moves like this were never 530 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 8: could we go to another place where more than likely 531 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 8: going to meet with people that you are not seeing, 532 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 8: you know, have not seen I do ey, and problems 533 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 8: arise from that. So it was difficult for me to uh, 534 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 8: you know, accepted and say okay, I'm going and i 535 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 8: have spent four years and uh about four months in 536 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 8: this facility at Owa County Detention Center, and I'm finally 537 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 8: being trumferred out. For all of us who have spent 538 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 8: time in this place, we have qualified as one of 539 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 8: the worst places to be in for any detainee in 540 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 8: the United States. 541 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 4: That same night, One called back. This time he wasn't alone. 542 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 4: Two of his sellies were with him. He wanted to 543 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 4: talk to them before he got transferred and might never 544 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 4: see them again. 545 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 8: Elder Imano Hector uhmgo. 546 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 7: And Aki as a rouse and la I spoke a look, Ice, 547 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 7: I don't know what I want doing when. 548 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 8: I have the. 549 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 4: When, but yeah, he asks them how much his Bible 550 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 4: studies helped them pass their time and detention a lot. 551 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 4: One response. Juan also told me something that was alarming. 552 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 4: He told me he was going to be transferred to 553 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 4: a gang unit. 554 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 8: They themselves classified me as an inactive former gang member, 555 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 8: so they still consider me dangerous or whatever. But I know, man, 556 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 8: I'm just going over there. I'm gonna appreciate the Gospel, 557 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 8: and so I'll give you a call as soon as 558 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 8: I can. 559 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 4: And then silence days of nothing. He wasn't showing up 560 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 4: on the online ICE detainee locator system either. And then 561 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 4: late on a Sunday night, I got a call. It 562 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 4: was Juan. He had been moved to Louisiana, less than 563 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 4: an hour away from an airport that ICE frequently uses 564 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 4: for deportation flights. I spoke with Juan's attorney, Mike Kagan 565 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 4: the next morning. He had been told by ICE that 566 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 4: they were not going to deport him, but his transfer 567 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 4: was still a problem. If the BIA the Board of 568 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 4: Immigration Appeals, ruled negatively on his case, ICE could deport 569 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 4: him much more quickly now, perhaps even before Mike learned 570 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 4: about the decision, where had time to file paperwork to 571 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 4: block the deportation as they appeal. I asked Juan what 572 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 4: he thought would happen if you were deported back to 573 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 4: El Salvador, where he hasn't set foot since he was twelve. 574 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 8: Will be sent to a world where it is very 575 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 8: difficult to get a job. I did not have a home, 576 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 8: so I would pretty much be thrown to the streets. 577 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 8: And we are talking about a streets that are extremely dangerous. 578 00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 8: Let's see how I could survive. 579 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 4: Yes, Juan is applying for protection under the Convention against 580 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 4: Torture or cat let's go back to his attorney. 581 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 5: So essentially, our law embraces the idea that anyone who 582 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 5: would be tortured in other countries should not be sent there. 583 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 5: And so Juan has been fighting his deportation because he's 584 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 5: afraid that he would be tortured nel Salvador and the government, 585 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 5: actually the Board of Immigration Appeals has actually acknowledged that 586 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 5: there is some risk of torture to him. The fight 587 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 5: has been how much risk. 588 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 4: The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has basically ruled in 589 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 4: favor of Juan's Convention against Torture claim twice, but it's 590 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 4: still up to the immigration courts to grant Juan relief. 591 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 4: One explain that in early twenty nineteen and I was 592 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 4: come out. 593 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 8: To be deported and by my attorney was fast and 594 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 8: finally in the emergency paperwork for me to continue appealing. 595 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 8: So I am currently waiting for almost a year now 596 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 8: for the VIA to issue its final order. I am 597 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 8: hoping for something positive, but in all of these people, 598 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 8: you never know. Well. 599 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 4: Immigration courts in the US, including the Board of Immigration Appeals, 600 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 4: act a bit like regular courts. Technically they're not actually courts. 601 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 4: They're part of the Department of Justice, the executive branch. 602 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 4: Their ultimate boss is the Attorney General, the nation's chief prosecutor, 603 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 4: and their independence is increasingly compromised by that politics of 604 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 4: whoever sits in the White House. 605 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,439 Speaker 5: One of the peculiarities of immigration law is even when 606 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 5: a court thinks that the agency is doing it wrong, 607 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 5: they don't overrule the agency. They vacate its decision and 608 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 5: will use remand it what little kids call it, do 609 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 5: over You could look at this a little bit like 610 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 5: the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is like a teacher 611 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 5: telling a student, you've done the problem wrong, do it again. 612 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 5: And they've done that twice, except the second time they said, 613 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 5: you did it wrong again and you didn't follow our instructions. 614 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,959 Speaker 5: And at the moment, we are waiting for the Board 615 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 5: of Immigration Appeals third decision on whether Huan should be 616 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 5: deported to a place where he's at a risk of torture. 617 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 4: I asked Mike, what would be waiting for Kwan if 618 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 4: you were sent back, if you were deported. 619 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 5: Well, I can tell you what the expert witness told 620 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 5: the court, which was that he'll be lucky to make 621 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 5: it out of the airport alive. And because he is 622 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 5: a former gang member, he has gang tattoos on his body, 623 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 5: and anyone who googles his name he's going to find 624 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 5: out about his criminal conviction. And in El Salvador, where 625 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 5: the government has been fighting a brutal but largely losing 626 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 5: battle with gangs, someone who arrived from the United States 627 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 5: with Juan's profile is going to be targeted by the 628 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 5: government for brutal treatment. 629 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 4: So he may be beaten up the airport. 630 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 5: If he makes manages to make it out of the airport, 631 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 5: He's at risk from local police. Anywhere he settles, he's 632 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 5: at risk from government supported essentially death squads, and he's 633 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 5: at risk from other gangs too. 634 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 4: Mike told me that ICE had informed him that they 635 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 4: were not planning on deporting him, So why did they 636 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 4: transfer him? Who knows? ICE is in the business of 637 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 4: warehousing people, Mike told me, if they want to move 638 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 4: one of their quote unquote items to another warehouse, they 639 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 4: do it. It wasn't as easy to talk to Juan 640 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 4: now that he was in Louisiana. He was set to 641 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 4: be quarantined for fifteen days and then transferred to a 642 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 4: bang unit, where he didn't have access to a tablet. 643 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 4: When we did manage to talk, the reception was terrible. 644 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: Medistination is because it is not a permanent I'm sorry 645 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: you break up. 646 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 4: He's still fighting the stay despite only having lived for 647 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 4: less than three years in the United States as a 648 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 4: free person as an adolescent, which was thirty years ago. 649 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 4: Now he still feels American. 650 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 8: He told me. 651 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 4: With this, that's One's mother again, explaining the life she 652 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 4: had hoped her son would have in the United States. 653 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:10,240 Speaker 4: Is One's mother wanted to spare him of the dangers 654 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 4: of a civil war. She wanted him to live a 655 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 4: long life and to live it in freedom. 656 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 8: In prison, you're not taught to be anything except mentality 657 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 8: to survive, you know. But what I think that had 658 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 8: an impact in my mind since I was young was 659 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 8: my study. All that I studied was about the United States, 660 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 8: It's history, government and so on and so forth. And 661 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 8: so that is what really I believe planted a mentality. 662 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 8: I believe that I belong somehow here. Yes, this may 663 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 8: be strange too many because I was not born here. 664 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 8: But when you study about something so much to the 665 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 8: even though it was a fantasy, it was my reality. 666 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 8: It was what I knew, that is what I was living. 667 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 4: It's been almost thirty years since one got locked up, 668 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 4: and sometimes he finds himself asking what he's learned from 669 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 4: it all. 670 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 8: One of the most important things that I've learned in 671 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 8: this whole experience is that it takes but a blink 672 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 8: of an eye to lose all that you are, all 673 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 8: that you could be and perhaps want to be in 674 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 8: the future, all the things that you don't think about, 675 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 8: all the things are good, positive and meaningful in life, 676 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 8: and it is so difficult, I means so difficult to 677 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 8: work to get back some of that, especially when you 678 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 8: were in a world that everybody, I mean everybody guess 679 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 8: don't want nothing to do with you. And just in 680 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 8: case somebody's wondering why I want to remain in a 681 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 8: country that keeps me locked up, to fight to stay here, 682 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 8: the answry is easy. First all of my family is here. Secondly, 683 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,879 Speaker 8: it's the only world that I've known for the past 684 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 8: twenty six years of my life. In my country of nativity. 685 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 8: I have nothing from me going over there. Family wise, 686 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,359 Speaker 8: I don't know anyone there. My grandma thats left. She's 687 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 8: very old and she lives in a very extremely dangerous 688 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 8: town where Ry was on the last long there. 689 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 4: He recently reminded me about that day five and a 690 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,799 Speaker 4: half years ago now back in Nevada, when he thought 691 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 4: he was about to be released on. 692 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 8: A Friday, I went out to the YR and I 693 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,839 Speaker 8: walked around with myself. They're dreaming about what freedom would 694 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 8: feel like the first moment that I experience it, and 695 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 8: I was excited. I was very happy, you know, I 696 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 8: cannot describe how happy I was. But till now, it's 697 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 8: still a dream. So I did not think much of 698 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 8: it yet because I'm still here in my release. At 699 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 8: this point, it is very uncertain and I still don't 700 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 8: see any light at the end of the tunnel. 701 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 4: I reached out to ICE to ask about the transfers, 702 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 4: the conditions, and the frequent mixing of ICE detainees and 703 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 4: people accused of crimes in Ottawa. They responded, quote, US 704 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 4: Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. ICE is firmly committed to. 705 00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 8: Ensure that those in their custody residing safe in many 706 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:07,879 Speaker 8: environments and under appropriate condition of confinement. So I don't 707 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 8: know how this is, you know, secure and safe environment 708 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 8: for us, because I have seen the opposite. You know 709 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 8: that I have seen my own self my own eyes. 710 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,439 Speaker 4: But what if he does get out and he's able 711 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,920 Speaker 4: to stay in the US, what does one hope for. 712 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 8: I want to keep doing what I've been doing, you know. 713 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 8: I think that that's the right thing to do, and 714 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 8: that is tell him, share my story with other people, 715 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 8: those who need advice, you know, and who will take it. 716 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 8: I think kids are important to all of us, and 717 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,320 Speaker 8: we should never give up on them. Direct them in 718 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 8: the right path, and tell them, you know, hey, this 719 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 8: can happen to you. It happened to me, you know, 720 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 8: and I was just in your shoes. And I can 721 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 8: tell him the ugly part of the whole thing, you know, 722 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 8: the mentality you know, or the little pride for peer 723 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 8: pressure thing that they think is okay to do when 724 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 8: it is not, and all those many things. You know. 725 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:12,919 Speaker 4: One also wants to tap into the skills he's picked 726 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 4: up while in prison. 727 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,320 Speaker 8: I want to do something with my artwork, you know. 728 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 8: I hope that doors open was ab out there. I 729 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 8: know that they're way way too many artists out there, 730 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 8: and competition is going to be tough, but I still 731 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 8: think that I have some unique thing to bring to 732 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 8: the table. 733 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 4: More than anything, he wants to continue leading people to God. 734 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 8: I hope that I am able to continue with my 735 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 8: church work, which is very of the most importance to me, 736 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 8: very meaningful because I see that He actually changes life 737 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 8: to those who are willing to, like everything else, put 738 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 8: their whole heart into it. So I want to continue 739 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 8: to work on that so that people can become better, 740 00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 8: you know, better persons. And I believe that God can 741 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,280 Speaker 8: do that. I believe that God can you know, shape, 742 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 8: mold you know, I'm becoming characters to something that is 743 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,799 Speaker 8: very good. I want to work, of course, I want 744 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 8: to work. And I know people think or will assume 745 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,360 Speaker 8: that I have no work you know, skills or ethics, 746 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 8: but actually was able to experience someone that while I 747 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 8: was in prison, you know. So I know we're working 748 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,439 Speaker 8: eight ten hours a day, is like, and so yeah, 749 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 8: I'm ready for that. I'm very ready for that. I 750 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 8: want to go out there and just live life, you know, 751 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 8: and appreciate all the simple things that I have not 752 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,920 Speaker 8: been able to appreciate, you know, by just a simple 753 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 8: walk to the park, going to the beach, or just 754 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,879 Speaker 8: stand by a little creek of water, you know, that's 755 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,799 Speaker 8: rushing by and just listening to the sound. Just things 756 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,279 Speaker 8: like that. I miss most you know, the male even 757 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:58,920 Speaker 8: though I can as well believe it or not, I 758 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 8: COVID still as Yeah, my smell has never returning over 759 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 8: a year and a half now, and so hope, hopefully 760 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 8: it does return. And when he does, I'm able to smell. 761 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 8: You know, all the natural smells out there are almost 762 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 8: the leaves, and you know, in the autumn, and and 763 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 8: and all of those beautiful smells and all that to 764 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 8: come with life. So that is my hope. 765 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 4: Less than a week after the traumatic transfer to Louisiana, 766 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 4: Jue was back in Edawa. He suspects ICE had been 767 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,839 Speaker 4: trying to deport him, but his attorney intervened in time. 768 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,440 Speaker 4: He's back to the awful food, but he told me, 769 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 4: at least the reception is better and we can actually talk. 770 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 4: In December, the Board of Immigration Appeals finally ruled and 771 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,240 Speaker 4: remanded the case back to the immigration judge. The quote 772 00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,840 Speaker 4: do over that Kwan's attorney described, So now his case 773 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 4: and his fate is in the hands of the immigration courts. 774 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,600 Speaker 4: The same day that you should the ruling, one began 775 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 4: researching country conditions now Salvador trying to update and throw 776 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,760 Speaker 4: up his plea for protection. For now, he remains in Otawa, 777 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 4: eating a lot of ramen, not seeing the sun, but 778 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,120 Speaker 4: offering his Bible lessons every day. 779 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 8: Okay. 780 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,719 Speaker 2: As we were wrapping up production on this episode, one 781 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 2: was notified that he'd be transferred back to Nevada. It's 782 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 2: a move that he'd long been petitioning for, but during 783 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,960 Speaker 2: the first stage of the transfer, he contracted COVID nineteen 784 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 2: for a second time and had trouble breathing and had 785 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 2: to be hospitalized for a day. He's now in a 786 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,880 Speaker 2: detention camp in Louisiana. A final decision on his release 787 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:28,480 Speaker 2: from ice detention remains pending. This episode was produced by 788 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 2: Tucson based journalist John Washington with help from Julia Rocha. 789 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,279 Speaker 2: It was edited by Andrea Lopez Gruzado and mixed by 790 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 2: Lea Shaw Dameran research for this episode by Sophia Diaz 791 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 2: Sean fact checking by our fellow Monica Morales Garcia. The 792 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:47,480 Speaker 2: Latino USA team includes Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Julia Ta Martinelli, 793 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:52,800 Speaker 2: Victoria Estradra, Patricia Sulvaran, Ginni Montalbo, and Reinaldo Leanos Junior 794 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 2: with help from Raulpees. Our editorial director is Julio Ricardorella. 795 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,720 Speaker 2: Our supervising senior engineer is Steph Lebau. Our assistant senior 796 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:06,400 Speaker 2: Engineer is Julia Caruso. Our associate engineers are gabriel Lebyaz 797 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 2: and Jjkrubin. 798 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 3: Our digital editor is Louis Duna. 799 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,840 Speaker 2: Our Latino USA fellows are Elisa Bayena and Andrew Vignalis. 800 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 3: Our theme music was composed by Zenie Rubinos. If you 801 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:17,880 Speaker 3: like the music you. 802 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 2: Heard on this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org and 803 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,279 Speaker 2: check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and 804 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,240 Speaker 2: executive producer Marie Josa. Join us again on our next episode, 805 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,000 Speaker 2: and in the meantime look for us on social media. 806 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,000 Speaker 3: We'll see you there. Astella Proxima Chao. 807 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 10: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heisin 808 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:48,760 Speaker 10: Simons Foundation, Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at hsfoundation 809 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:55,600 Speaker 10: dot org, the chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and W. K. Kellogg Foundation, 810 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,400 Speaker 10: a partner with communities where children come first. 811 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:04,839 Speaker 3: Alright here, then that's a wrap. 812 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 8: Then