1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,560
Speaker 1: What's up on Granger.

2
00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:03,840
Speaker 2: I'm the amp Man, I'm Tyler, I'm Parker.

3
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,360
Speaker 1: We are at the ninety nine for one podcast coming

4
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,239
Speaker 1: from Luke fifteen, where our goal is to seek the

5
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,720
Speaker 1: one and equip the ninety nine to do the same.

6
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: Really good topic today, we're making a declaration.

7
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,920
Speaker 2: Here why online church is not church.

8
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: It's not church at all.

9
00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 2: That's interesting comments from this last one they talked about

10
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 2: because we teased this on last week's episode. I think

11
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,879
Speaker 2: it's funny is they took online church and then I

12
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 2: think they swapped it out with and combined last week's

13
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 2: episode in the new episode this week. AI church doesn't

14
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 2: offer community, so now we're going to AI leading your church.

15
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,959
Speaker 2: But I think they were talking about online church. Yeah,

16
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,400
Speaker 2: it does not offer community, and we are called to

17
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:53,199
Speaker 2: be in community with like minded individuals. Ee from Salem, Oregon.

18
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 1: Were there any comments of people defending themselves sending no

19
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 1: I attendant online church.

20
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 2: My church has an online presence, which is great for

21
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 2: when folks are traveling, but also for the shut ins

22
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 2: who can't be there in person.

23
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:04,680
Speaker 1: We'll deal with that.

24
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,040
Speaker 2: We also have some who cannot drive at night. I

25
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 2: don't know whether that has to do anything driving at night.

26
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 2: But uh, my church does services in person and by video.

27
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 2: Because we have multiple churches led by the same pastor,

28
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,400
Speaker 2: he's one that helps stay open. I guess I'm assuming

29
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 2: that has to do with when everything was shut down.

30
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,960
Speaker 2: All named Crosstown Alliance Church, bad Church, and the churches

31
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 2: have a campus pastor. So yes, yeah, there.

32
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 1: Was one though that there was a specific one. I

33
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 1: was thinking though a person defending saying that I attend

34
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 1: online church. Okay, I didn't you see that one. Okay, Okay,

35
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,039
Speaker 1: that's kind of what's burred. Well, we talked about this

36
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 1: last week, and hey, we're not We're not going to

37
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 1: sugarcoat this at all. If the effect y'all known me

38
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: by now, I'm not going to go easy on this stuff,

39
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:58,600
Speaker 1: because I have I believe it's that dangerous. I believe

40
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 1: that you are if you are if you are watching

41
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,600
Speaker 1: church online and not attending a regular church in person,

42
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 1: and you're not a member of that church, you're not

43
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 1: a member of any church you just attend by viewing only,

44
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,519
Speaker 1: and you call yourself a Christian, there's a chance you

45
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,640
Speaker 1: might be going to hell. Any objections in the room

46
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 1: to that statement.

47
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 3: I mean Yeah, sure. I mean, there's many reasons why

48
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,079
Speaker 3: you potentially could be going to Hell.

49
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

50
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,000
Speaker 3: The problem is, I'm just trying to think of why somebody, like,

51
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 3: if you're that invested to attend your online church every summer,

52
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 3: why not just go to a church in person.

53
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: Let's dig into that. I think that's the good question, Parker.

54
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 1: What we're gonna say.

55
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 4: I was just gonna say, when people hear you say that,

56
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:07,119
Speaker 4: they're hearing you say going to church. Attending church gets

57
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 4: you into Heaven.

58
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,919
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Usually record this podcast earlier in the day,

59
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 1: and I've already had like my energy drink and stuff,

60
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, I'm like kind of on fire.

61
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like I'm I need to

62
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 1: have a little more a little more graciousness. So maybe

63
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 1: before we get too far. That's why my brother's out

64
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 1: here to slow me down before we get too far.

65
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 3: In this episode, I think it's important to define what

66
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 3: a biblical church.

67
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 1: Is good idea, good idea. So a church in its

68
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 1: essence is a gathering of people. The church is not

69
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 1: a it's not a proclamation of the Gospel. The church

70
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 1: isn't isn't preaching. The church isn't serving a community the church.

71
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: And it's in fact, if we look at the word

72
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 1: for church in the New Testament, it's ecclesia, and that

73
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 1: church comes from two parts, the the the the side

74
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: of the Greek side where we get this from. We

75
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: get this word from means the gathering, right, it's it's

76
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:18,560
Speaker 1: always in terms of people and and it it's it

77
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,040
Speaker 1: could be called a called out assembly or a public congregation,

78
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 1: but but more commonly known as a gathering, okay, And

79
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,599
Speaker 1: then church it's like c h U r h that kind.

80
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: That's that's the word that's interpreted from ecclesia, and that

81
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 1: that's an English word obviously, and that English word comes

82
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 1: from belonging to the Lord. So that's how in the

83
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,280
Speaker 1: early English translators were taking ecclesia and going, hey, this

84
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 1: is a gathering, this is a called out assembly, this

85
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,480
Speaker 1: is a gathering of people for the Lord. And so

86
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're going to use the best English equivalent,

87
00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:03,359
Speaker 1: which is this belonging to the Lord word. So quite literally,

88
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 1: we're looking at the church is a group of people

89
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 1: called out by the Lord and belonging to him. You

90
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,599
Speaker 1: could say it that way. That would be the intention

91
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 1: of the biblical word of church, so that we need

92
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,839
Speaker 1: to start with that. It is a There is a

93
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 1: capital C church, that's the what we would call Catholic

94
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: lowercase see Catholic Church. Is it's the the global church, right,

95
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:37,160
Speaker 1: capital C global church. But the global church, the capital

96
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: C church is made visible always by the lowercase see

97
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,920
Speaker 1: local churches. So the capital see the Church of God, right,

98
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 1: the Church of Christ is only visible in thousands and

99
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,200
Speaker 1: thousands of little lower kse see churches, which are covenant

100
00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:05,840
Speaker 1: bound gathering congregations of Bible believers that have been born again,

101
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 1: that are Christians, that that gather regularly under the preaching

102
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:16,280
Speaker 1: of God's Word, submit themselves to pastors otherwise known as elders.

103
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 1: They practice the ordinances. There's two ordinances, Baptism and the

104
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,680
Speaker 1: Lord's Supper, and they commit to watching over each other's lives,

105
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,080
Speaker 1: living together side by side in a meaningful way. And

106
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 1: it is not in any it's it's not any other

107
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 1: interpretation outside of that. It is not a platform or

108
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,159
Speaker 1: a digital outreach or a you know, it's it's not

109
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: any or it's not a it's not a a revival tent.

110
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,719
Speaker 1: It's not an evangelistic movement. It is in its essence

111
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,359
Speaker 1: the lower case ce. Local church is a gathering of

112
00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 1: believers that are sitting under God's word and practicing ordinances

113
00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,920
Speaker 1: and caring for each other. In the Bible says that

114
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: in this way people will know that your mind because

115
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 1: you love each other in this way. So your witness

116
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 1: to the world is that you love each other in

117
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 1: the church. So we'll start there. We haven't gotten into

118
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 1: the online component of it yet, but we'll start there.

119
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

120
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, to recap, a church is a local assembly of

121
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 3: believers who physically gather under qualified leadership to worship God,

122
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 3: hear his word, practice the ordinances Lord, separate baptism like

123
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,760
Speaker 3: you said, and live in accountable fellowship.

124
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So Acts two forty two, talking about

125
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: the early Church, it says, and they devoted themselves to

126
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: the apostles teaching, which is the New Testament. You could

127
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: also say the prophets, which would be the Old Testament,

128
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 1: and the fellowship to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

129
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 1: So this is early on in the early Church. In

130
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 1: the Book of Acts, we start to see the Christian

131
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 1: Church operating Hebrews ten twenty four. This is a famous

132
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,600
Speaker 1: one when we think about church, and let us consider

133
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: how to stir one another up and to love and

134
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 1: to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together.

135
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,680
Speaker 1: It's in the habit of some, but encouraging one another

136
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:31,000
Speaker 1: in all.

137
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 2: So do you think that.

138
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 4: Do you think that churches should not even offer an

139
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,320
Speaker 4: online service.

140
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:43,319
Speaker 2: Because.

141
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 4: You're saying, Okay, you shouldn't only be watching church online.

142
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,240
Speaker 4: But I think the argument that all our churches would

143
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 4: make is you'd rather have online services available to some

144
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 4: almost like an evangelistic opportunity, or that like it's better

145
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 4: to have it and some hear it than to just

146
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 4: not have it at all, I guess would be their argument.

147
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I guess I guess my My answer to

148
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: that would be that as far as an evangelistic situation,

149
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 1: you could watch that a re recording or a rerun

150
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,719
Speaker 1: of that are pre recorded. We'll get my words right,

151
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,280
Speaker 1: A pre recorded version of that's fine, But but I

152
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 1: think I would be more concerned with if if it's

153
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 1: if it is online. I wouldn't be against a church.

154
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 1: I certainly would not be against the church having an

155
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 1: online presence live even live, but I think that is

156
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: primarily for members of that church who woke up that

157
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 1: morning with the flu, or they can't get out of

158
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 1: bed because they you know, they had knee surgery, And

159
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 1: there could be many other reasons. For instance, we just

160
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 1: had this big eye storm where there were probably thousands

161
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,600
Speaker 1: of churches canceled their Sunday gathering because of literally people

162
00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 1: couldn't leave the driveways because of the ice. And so

163
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: we personally didn't do this at a Mais. But there

164
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 1: are other churches that would have some kind of online

165
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,720
Speaker 1: service for that, but that that would be a rare

166
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 1: and very a very rare instance. We'll put it that way,

167
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: that the church would do that, and then we need

168
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 1: to separate in this conversation early on, we're not talking

169
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 1: about We're not saying it's bad to watch church online.

170
00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,560
Speaker 1: We're saying it's it is bad if that's the only church.

171
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 3: You're to answer your question, Parker, it's a great tool

172
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 3: and resource. I believe it's like it's like if you're

173
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,839
Speaker 3: working out. If you're not working out and you take

174
00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 3: creatine in wagh protein, it's not going to do anything.

175
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 3: It's not going to build You have to also go

176
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 3: work out.

177
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,200
Speaker 2: You know.

178
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,880
Speaker 3: Online problem online church is like creatine. You can't just

179
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,920
Speaker 3: take creating and expect something to happen. You got to

180
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 3: go actually work out, go to church.

181
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 2: Going to church is working out.

182
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was better in my head.

183
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,120
Speaker 2: But watching Apple Fitness is your online church, getting up

184
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,720
Speaker 2: and going to the gym as church.

185
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,199
Speaker 1: There you go. It's a great tool and resource. Here's

186
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 1: another benefit, like if I if I'm if I'm preaching

187
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:34,400
Speaker 1: at another church, that afternoon of me preaching, I will

188
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 1: go and watch that our online or replay month a

189
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 1: month later, You'd be like, what were we saying in

190
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,360
Speaker 1: Hebrews back in or that November? Because I'm reading it

191
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 1: personally in my Bible study now, so I want to

192
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 1: go reference what Marshall was saying in Hebrews. That's great? Yeah,

193
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,959
Speaker 1: what a great What a great way to utilize an

194
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 1: online what's my Why am I struggling with the word.

195
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,880
Speaker 1: It's not replay an online episode.

196
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 4: Of church just like a recorded sermon.

197
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 1: Yeah sermon. Yeah, look at I keep wanting to say

198
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 1: rerun like we're watching old TV shows. So yeah, I'm not.

199
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be against having an online presence and having

200
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,079
Speaker 1: you know what you know, I do a lot. It's

201
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 1: like someone's someone's in a town. They go, Hey, I'm

202
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 1: I'm attending so and so church. You think it's a

203
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,000
Speaker 1: good church. First, I'm gonna go on there, and i'm

204
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 1: gonna go on there about page. I'm gonna see the staff.

205
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see who their pastors are and how they're

206
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: labeling their pastors. And then i'm gonna go to latest

207
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: sermons and I'm gonna see if the guy's preaching expositionally.

208
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: Is he getting on there and he's doing a sermon

209
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: series about money or marriage or suffering. I'm like, this

210
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,000
Speaker 1: is this is probably an unhealthy church. But if I

211
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,200
Speaker 1: go on there and it says latest sermon, Luke seven,

212
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,719
Speaker 1: you know, one to seventeen. Hey, guys, we're picking up

213
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,079
Speaker 1: from last week where we left off. And Luke six go, Okay,

214
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,319
Speaker 1: this guy's preaching line by line that all start there.

215
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good indicator on as I'm

216
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,559
Speaker 1: looking for churches. And it's all because they have that

217
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 1: online resource.

218
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,520
Speaker 3: Well, you got to kind of expand on that. It

219
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,959
Speaker 3: could be another episode. But why exponent expository preaching? Why

220
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 3: is that important over topical which you're comparing it against. Yeah, yeah, quickly,

221
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,559
Speaker 3: I mean because we have a lot we have. This

222
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 3: is a ton of stuff you don't have to, but

223
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:33,680
Speaker 3: I thank you.

224
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, the I guess the the easiest way to

225
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,560
Speaker 1: say it is it's it's a protection for the people

226
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: that they are hearing the point of the author of

227
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 1: the Biblical text, and there then they're looking at culture

228
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: and their world through the lens of that Biblical text.

229
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 1: Instead of saying, let's pick a cultural worldly topic and

230
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,199
Speaker 1: then we're going to go to a thousand Bible verses

231
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 1: looking through the lens of the of the topic at

232
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 1: the Bible verses. The nuance would be there's nothing wrong

233
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 1: with occasionally going to a topical preaching, but that cannot

234
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 1: be the regular diet. Otherwise believers are not built up,

235
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 1: they're not growing at all. What are you gonna say? So,

236
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 1: here's another idea. If you're if you are on, if

237
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 1: you're online only, and I had a friend recently this happened.

238
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,880
Speaker 1: I bet you everybody has a story in here. But

239
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 1: a recently a friend reached out and he's asking me

240
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 1: some questions about the Bible. And I'm a little upfront

241
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: sometimes and I just said, who's pastoring you? That's like

242
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 1: a thing I ask people because it says a lot,

243
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 1: it ends up saying a lot with how they answer.

244
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a guy that was just talking to

245
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 1: this morning. They lost her, a little baby girl. She

246
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: was seventeen months old, and he reaching out to me.

247
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: He's like, what do I do? What do I do?

248
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 2: What I do?

249
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 1: And I'm a Christian? What do I do? And so

250
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 1: my first before I say anything, I want to say,

251
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 1: who's pastoring you? I just want to know who is

252
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: discipling you through this because it can't be me. Don't

253
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 1: put it on me. I can't. I can't be there.

254
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,840
Speaker 1: I can give you, you know, bits of advice. And he said, well,

255
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,280
Speaker 1: I don't know my pastor. I'm a Hughes said, I'm

256
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: part of this church and it was in one of

257
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,680
Speaker 1: the Midwest states. I ended up looking it up, but

258
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: he said, I don't know the guy. Another story is

259
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 1: a friend of ours, a mutual friend of everybody here.

260
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 1: He reached out and he was asking me some Bible questions.

261
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 1: I said, who's pastoring you? And he said what was

262
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 1: his name? I told you earlier, Judah Judas Smith. Judas Smith.

263
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 2: Who's my main church is church home in Seattle in

264
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 2: Washington I know he also has another campus in la

265
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,920
Speaker 2: He's he's probably the most famous for being justin Bieber's.

266
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 1: Just so he said that, and I wasn't sure exactly

267
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 1: who that was. I'm not always familiar with the big

268
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 1: pastors like that. But then I looked it up and

269
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 1: I realized he's on He's on one coast and this

270
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 1: pastor he's talking about is on the other coast. I

271
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 1: was like, how could how could your pastor be in

272
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 1: Seattle and you're on the east coast. And I realized

273
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,160
Speaker 1: I was naive to what he was saying. But then

274
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: I realized, oh, he's a member online, he doesn't attend,

275
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 1: so he says he actually does know that guy Judah

276
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 1: Judah Smith, but he he's one of you, he and

277
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 1: he doesn't actually physically go. And so all we got

278
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 1: to do a podcast about this because it's very dangerous.

279
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 1: And the reason I said earlier that I did, I

280
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 1: didn't mean to shock, to bring some kind of shock

281
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 1: value of if you're if you tend an online church,

282
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000
Speaker 1: are going to hell. But what here's let me say

283
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,680
Speaker 1: it more plainly, and and in a farm, if you've

284
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 1: got a flock of sheep on the protection of the

285
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: shepherd and some big guard dogs. What do they call

286
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 1: those big white guard dogs sheep dogs? Yeah, those big

287
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 1: white ones. Man, They're just like, yeah, is that what

288
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: it is? No, that's a little great Pyrenees there you go.

289
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 2: I would never guessed that.

290
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,360
Speaker 1: But so you got those sheep in there, great Pyrenees shepherds,

291
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, and then you got one sheep way off

292
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: on the hill by itself. I would say that sheep

293
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,199
Speaker 1: is in great danger of wolves. So that's that's what

294
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 1: I'm saying. They go, yeah, but but my I go,

295
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 1: I go, and I get my feeding. They're looking at

296
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: the trot though they know where the fluck is. They're

297
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,640
Speaker 1: just watching from a distance.

298
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,360
Speaker 4: On their little iPad.

299
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:05,199
Speaker 1: So let's talk about a pastor should know you, and

300
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 1: you should know your pastor. I don't know how many

301
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 1: times have I said this on this podcast, this kind

302
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 1: of idea a lot, and people still push back on it.

303
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: I didn't put it's impossible you and I did that

304
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 1: reaction video. It's impossible to know all your sheep, is it?

305
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 1: How could a shepherd not know one of his sheep.

306
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: How could one of the sheep not know one of

307
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: his pastors? And if he doesn't because there's too many sheep.

308
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:35,719
Speaker 1: Then they need more shepherds. One Peter five to one says,

309
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow

310
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, shepherd

311
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,440
Speaker 1: the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,

312
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 1: not under compulsion, but willingly as God would have you.

313
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: Hebrews thirteen seven. Obey your leaders and submit to them,

314
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 1: for they are keeping watch over your souls as those

315
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: who will have to give an account. I have texted

316
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 1: guys that a thousand times when they push back on

317
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,959
Speaker 1: I don't need to know my elder, and I said, well,

318
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 1: your elder needs to know you. Hebrews thirteen seventeen says

319
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: that he will give an account. One day. He will

320
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 1: stand before the Lord and judgment and give an account

321
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: over you. And if he doesn't know you, that is

322
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: a that is a big problem. I have a pastor

323
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: friend one time that I heard him say there was

324
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 1: a guy that just kept coming to the church, coming, coming, coming, coming,

325
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 1: but never never more than just coming to the church.

326
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 1: And one day he grabbed him in the four year

327
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, am I going to have to

328
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 1: give an account over you or not. You know, he's

329
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: just thinking of the Hebrews thirteen. Are you one that

330
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 1: I will give an account for? Because if you are,

331
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 1: I need to know you. And that's good shepherding.

332
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good. Yeah, And I do think a little yes,

333
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 2: I think they tied together. I think they're a little

334
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 2: bit se with the online church in this because I

335
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 2: have some opinions on the other side, and I'm actually

336
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 2: seeing some reflection of myself a lot, because a lot

337
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 2: of times when I I speak with a lot of

338
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: excitement and the conviction, and I'm on the other side

339
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: experiencing it from you. Right now. You're very adamant, very

340
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 2: you already said it at the beginning. You're very on fire.

341
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 2: And I actually have some good things for online church.

342
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 2: For about a year and a half, my wife and

343
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 2: I served online church, and I'm looking for the I

344
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 2: want to go. I want to set some standards and

345
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: that's why I just I don't want to say anything

346
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 2: until now. But like some of the things that you've

347
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 2: already talked about, boxes were checked with online church, and

348
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: I think that there's if you haven't experienced it, some

349
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: people think is a nightclub. You bounce in, you bounce out,

350
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 2: You do it when it's convenient, and you leave an

351
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: elder who oversaw that particular service. I knew more about

352
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 2: the people in my online in this specific service that

353
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 2: we did than previously I knew about in a physical church.

354
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 2: I say previously because I'm in a very healthy church.

355
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 2: Now I knew more about them. I still am close

356
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 2: friends with I say close friends. I know a lot

357
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 2: about some of their lives, several of the people especially

358
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 2: that we served with. But I did experience the side

359
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 2: that most people see of people just bouncing in bouncing out.

360
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: They didn't come every week that you know, it wasn't,

361
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 2: but it was for them for a lot of it.

362
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: It was everything you experience in a good, healthy, physical church,

363
00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 2: just not physically. And so I think there are some

364
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 2: advantages I say advantages. And it was also during a time.

365
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: This was the time when people couldn't go to church

366
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: at all or didn't daring COVID. Yeah, during COVID, yeah,

367
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: I want a lot of stuff was shut down. But

368
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 2: it's also it started off because it was what was

369
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 2: familiar to me, leaving an unhealthy church, moving crazy time

370
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 2: in my life, divorce, all this other stuff, and it

371
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: was what I was familiar with. I knew the teaching

372
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: was solid, and I knew that the growth. And I

373
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: don't mind saying what it was Life Church and who

374
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: some people might say as the pioneer of a lot

375
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 2: of online church. But I will tell you that even recently,

376
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 2: as in two three weeks ago, Craig Rochels looked straight

377
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: down the lens of the camera and said, if the

378
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 2: only place that you are getting the word is online,

379
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: you need to find a physical church to get into.

380
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 2: He didn't say you need to find a physical life

381
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: church to get into, you need to find it. He goes, Today,

382
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: here we're laying hands on each other and praying for

383
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: one another. There's something that happens when you physically touch

384
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: another person that you are not going to get to experience.

385
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: That is the part that I I it's the community.

386
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 2: I think for me it was the community outside of

387
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: the ten to eleven thirty, if that makes sense. The

388
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 2: time we're together is sitting in a pew listening, you know,

389
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: worshiping together, listening to the Word, agreeing with your taking

390
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 2: communion all that. Yes, obviously that is what the Bible

391
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: calls us to. But it is even more than that.

392
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: It's the stuff outside you know of when you leave

393
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 2: that service, of who are you having lunch with and having,

394
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 2: you know, getting involved in other people's lives that I

395
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: see as just as important as the church as what

396
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:55,959
Speaker 2: we call lowercase C church is, which we you know,

397
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 2: other than the physical aspect of it. I had in

398
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: the online service and the online church group that I

399
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: was with, what.

400
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: About ordinances as then two ordinances Lord, Supper and baptism.

401
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, those two and we I know, we hadn't discussed

402
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: those here yet. Those we we we did we would

403
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: take communion together at the online online yeah. Uh and

404
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: uh obviously no baptism you just grab grape from your

405
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: everybody prepped their own. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and he did

406
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: it together.

407
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: And the reason, my gosh, just help me.

408
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: Farker, No, you go ahead.

409
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: No, No, I've talked about your eyes thoughts. I I would,

410
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: I would, I would implore anyone listening to run from

411
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: this kind of teaching Grocell type teaching. Actually twenty twenty eight,

412
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: pay careful attention to yourself and to all the flock

413
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: in which the Holy Spirit has made you. Overseers speaking

414
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: to the elders to care for the Church of God,

415
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: which he obtained with his own blood, and a pastor

416
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: that is not hearing this Acts twenty twenty eight Paul

417
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: exhorting the elders. If he's not paying careful attention to

418
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: the flock that was obtained by the blood of Christ,

419
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: in which the Holy Spirit has made this particular pastor

420
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: an overseer, then he is he is grossly disobeying what

421
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: his purpose is as a as a pastor. Yeah, and

422
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: I can't imagine if Paul knew that one day people

423
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: could actually gather and take the Lord's supper. I don't

424
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 1: know what one Corinthians eleven would mean in that aspect

425
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: of taking it in an unhealthy manner, But if Paul

426
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: possibly knew that people would be scattered, I think he

427
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: would be absolutely appalled. I'm so I am so adamant

428
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: about this. Let's let's find another argument. And man, you

429
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: correctly talked about life as a church member outside of

430
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: just the gathering. The Bible is full of verses that

431
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: talk about a lot living alongside each other. Can't do

432
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: that online. I would say a big argument that people

433
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: listening right now are thinking, Okay, Granger, thanks you know,

434
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: thanks for you know, pushing my buttons here, but there

435
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: is no good church in my town.

436
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: I did see one of those in comments on the

437
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: last episode.

438
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to try to cover as many of

439
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: these type of ideas as you and I don't want to.

440
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: I don't want to leave this podcast without Well, we

441
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: missed a group. You should either start one or you

442
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: should move. If that's the case, Okay, elaborate on on

443
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: start one.

444
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: Uh, you would have to help me there, my I mean,

445
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 3: because I wouldn't start one, but I would.

446
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: I would.

447
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 3: I would have to seriously consider moving because if we're

448
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 3: seeking first the Lord and obeying him and scripture and

449
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 3: putting him above everything else, being in a healthy church

450
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: is very top priority.

451
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think I think people look and

452
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: let me, let me just like tether all of this

453
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: real quick to myself. I I've lived most of my

454
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: life against what I'm teaching right now, m and I'm

455
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: so convicted by it because of how long I lived

456
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: outside of a meaningful relationship with a healthy church. Sure

457
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: always called myself for Christian I took you guys know,

458
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: I just had a Spanish class with my teacher. She's

459
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: in Honduras and she's a Christian. She says, she's a

460
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: Christian talking about the Bible, you know, through most of

461
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: our Spanish teaching. And I sent a pastor to her

462
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: in her town, a pastor in another town that I know.

463
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: I sent him to her, and she said he came

464
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: to our door. She doesn't speak in English, but but

465
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: we were talking about today. He came to our door

466
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: and tried to get her in church, and she says,

467
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: I can't. I go to I attend university on Sunday mornings.

468
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: And she told me, she said, Granger, I get God

469
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: through his word, so I don't need the gathering. Basically, well,

470
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: that's wrong, which is something I've always I always believed

471
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: like at some level I might not have set it

472
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: that way, but I always existed. I always existed around

473
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: the church, knowing a church and occasionally popping into the church,

474
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: but mostly I was working and touring, so I didn't

475
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: there's no way to have a relationship. So I want

476
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: to just say that is if you guys hear me

477
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: speaking right now, It's not like I'm some know it

478
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: all that's been doing this my whole life. I'm I'm

479
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: the passion in me and the pleading, and me comes

480
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: from a man who was sick outside of a church

481
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: for so long, And it's so obvious in the Bible.

482
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: And so to what Tyler said, I think we wouldn't

483
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: even consider as Americans moving for this.

484
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 3: No, but you know what we would do. We would

485
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: consider moving for our children to get them into a

486
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: school that has a good football team. Oo yeah, baseball

487
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: team basketball, because we love our kids and we went

488
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: the best for them.

489
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: Or we would move for a job. Yea and a heartbeat.

490
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: We moved for raise got a good job, offer good benefits,

491
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: But we would when would you ever move for? Have

492
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: you ever in your life heard somebody say I moved

493
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 3: because of a healthy church? And probably you have recently,

494
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: very few, but we know in our circle we know

495
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 3: people that have moved across the country for a healthy church.

496
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 3: But but that's the obvious answer. Regardless of job, regardless

497
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: of family, being close in a close proximity to a

498
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 3: healthy church. Is that the first priority as a Christian

499
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: when considering.

500
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: Where you live.

501
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: Right?

502
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, ideally there's over here steaming at me, Parkner. You guys,

503
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: you got all these ideas.

504
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: I'm just listening.

505
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: Not much going on in my head, So I would, yes,

506
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: I would move. If you're in a town with no

507
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: healthy church, I would move long before I would say,

508
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: let's be a member of a online church, I think,

509
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: which I hope that we've we've already said that that

510
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: actually doesn't exist. There is no online church that would

511
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: defy the definition of what church is.

512
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 4: The problem with that, though, is everybody who on earth

513
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 4: is going to hear that and acknowledge that their church

514
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 4: is unhealthy or even know what that means.

515
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: This podcast is called nine to nine for one, so

516
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: maybe one, maybe one person, because there's ninety nine right

517
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: now that are going at those and never going to

518
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: tune in again. This is so stupid. This podcast is

519
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: now off my list. These guys are literally telling they're

520
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: telling me to move, and I've this town is all

521
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: I've ever known, And I would say, maybe there's one person.

522
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: So I know that this podcast is not about this technically,

523
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 4: but maybe you could just give a refresher on what

524
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: you This isn't Granger's opinion. We're not here to hear

525
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 4: Granger's opinion. It's what you're seeing, and your job here

526
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 4: is to try to convince us that the Bible can

527
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 4: show us indications of what a church looks like when

528
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 4: it's healthy and then implying this is what actually what

529
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 4: it looks like when it's not healthy. And by healthy,

530
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: I heard my old pastor describe it as uh healthy

531
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: meaning the members are growing just like a healthy body

532
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: grows as it should, so a healthy church member would

533
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: be growing in their faith as they should. Do you

534
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 4: want to just give a quick recap of what you

535
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 4: mean by that? What are or maybe you could say

536
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 4: what what are some potential red flags that somebody could

537
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 4: consider some characteristics of their church that they would think

538
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 4: because this just isn't on anybody's radar. There's just church

539
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: and then there's not.

540
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 3: I think the most important if we're if we're just

541
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: making this super simple, is does your pastor know your name?

542
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 4: If you're the person preaching on Sunday mornings doesn't know

543
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: your first name, you.

544
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: Can that's a red flag. It's potentially a.

545
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 4: Red flag of your church, unless you're just sneaking in

546
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 4: and out in or.

547
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: Avoiding him.

548
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: I guess Parker, with this discussion, a lot of times

549
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 1: we can go to Matthew eighteen, not because it's like

550
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: the perfect passage, but because It really implies that you

551
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: must have a church and you must be in a

552
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: relationship with him in a meaningful way. Listen to this.

553
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: If your brother sends against you, go tell him his

554
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: fault between you and him alone. We'll start there. Can

555
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: you do that online?

556
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: Yes?

557
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: Maybe?

558
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's what you know.

559
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just imagine one person is in Podunt, Nebraska.

560
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: There's no healthy church, and so he's attending Judas Smith's

561
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: church in Seattle. Okay, he's just by himself and he's

562
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: attending that church. So let's walk through Matthew eighteen and

563
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: just see how this affects this guy. If your brother

564
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: sends against you, go tell him his fault between you

565
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: and him alone.

566
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 4: Maybe there's probably knowing that church. There's probably a Facebook group,

567
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: and he's probably say he's a devout follower of that

568
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 4: online church. He's going to join the Facebook group and

569
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 4: say somebody send against him online, he could DM them.

570
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: Why can't this be his buddy down the street though?

571
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: Why does this have to have anything to do with church?

572
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: From Matthew eighteen. Yeah, good question, we'll get there. It's

573
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: in this passage.

574
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: If he listens to you, you've gained your brother. And

575
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: Jesus is talking here, and Jesus is implying we're talking

576
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: about believers and not you're not a random neighbor, because

577
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: he does talk plenty about your neighbor. He does in

578
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: this context for sixteen. But if he does not listen,

579
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: take one or two others among you that every charge

580
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: may be established with evidence of two or three witnesses.

581
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: If he refuses to listen, tell it to the church.

582
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: If he refuses to listen, even to the church, let

583
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: him be as to you as a gentile or a

584
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: tax collector. This is the essence of church discipline.

585
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 3: So and did you have accountability? Okay, So ant could

586
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 3: take that with other believers. We get together, you go

587
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: to the person that's sending, and if he still doesn't comply,

588
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 3: he could take it to the whoever at the church

589
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: for discipline, right yep.

590
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: So so everybody in the online church would then suddenly

591
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: be involved in this this dispute.

592
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: How many people depends on like that service. I'm just

593
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: I mean everybody has a different experience. There's people, right,

594
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: I don't think any one unless I has experienced an

595
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: online church like I have in this room. So you

596
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: may have experienced an online church in a in a

597
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: very casual I checked the box when to church on Sunday. Way, okay,

598
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: and those I think definitely are I will say, I'll

599
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: adamantly say you're at risk. You are at risk. You're

600
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: not being held accountable, you're not being fed. No one

601
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: knows who you are, no one you're you are living

602
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 2: in isolation. If you experienced the way that I did. Yes,

603
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: there I would say probably one hundred and fifty total

604
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: people that would be on in that's that particular service,

605
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 2: somewhere between seventy five to one hundred people. One hundred

606
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 2: and fifty people, one hundred and fifty people.

607
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: And those people were covet in it together every single

608
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: they lived life together.

609
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: The majority of the time. And fifty Yes, but and

610
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: that's where I and that's the part yes. To answer

611
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: this particular question, yes, those.

612
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: People that yes, Okay, did you ever see church discipline happen?

613
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: Did I particularly see it?

614
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 5: No?

615
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: I had heard about it after the fact. It would

616
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: be with I think there was one instance with a volunteer,

617
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, there's something we didn't know all

618
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: the details, but there was some discipline of something particular

619
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: I can't tell you. It's been a while. Now here.

620
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: Here's another question, how how did you become a member

621
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: of this online community?

622
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: Went through like you could just go in and start going.

623
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: It was there was no barrier, just like walking in

624
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: the front door of the church.

625
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: And you would one of these one and fifty if

626
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: you do that. Yeah, so you're you're risking unbelievers being

627
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: in this group.

628
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, so you would.

629
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: You'd be taking church discipline, for instance, in this Matthew

630
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: eighteen context, to potential unbelievers.

631
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think the argument in that is that

632
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: you could have unbelievers walking in the front door of

633
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: a church too.

634
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: Unbelievers do not have a say in.

635
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,479
Speaker 2: Our No, no, no, I didn't say that. I said going

636
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 2: to a physical church. Yeah.

637
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: No. But but going to a physical church is not

638
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: a meaningful membership in the church, which is just this discussion.

639
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,959
Speaker 1: Just like watching a church service online is not bad,

640
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: walking into an unhealthy church and sitting through the whole

641
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: service not bad. But we're talking about meaningful covenantal relationship

642
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: with the church. Sure, and everything based on membership that

643
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: like it all, I should say this way, It all

644
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: begins with are you a Christian, right, we want to

645
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: know and if you're not, you can't. It would be

646
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: it would we would be putting our whole church at

647
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: risk by bringing in non believers into membership. Yeah, once again,

648
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: not talking about attendants.

649
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: That may have worre We got off then because I

650
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: was just talking about attendants. It was about one hundred

651
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: and fifty attendants. How many members, I don't know, right,

652
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: those were exactly members.

653
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: Leaders would be brought up through the church. Yeah, So

654
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: the church is rebuked in the Bible for allowing false

655
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: teaching by Jesus in the Book of Revelation. So you

656
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: would rebuke potentially online viewers for their bad doctrine that

657
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: they're enduring when they might not even be Christians. You see,

658
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: you see the inconsistent the problem with this, It becomes

659
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: a huge It has eternal implications. You're talking about raising

660
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: up leaders through unbelievers, that there's ambiguity in who they are.

661
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: You're talking about I being casual with Lord's Supper. You're

662
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: you're The Lord's Supper is a tangible, visible reminder, a

663
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: remembrance of the Gospel through the bread and the wine,

664
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: and do this together in remembrance of me and you're

665
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: not doing it with anyone. So there's there's these there's

666
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: like eternal poisons with with this online church. Do you

667
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: guys said man, I feel like I'm talking too much

668
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: and I'm we're are we in this doll? Do you

669
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: hear me on this? Yeah?

670
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 3: So I think one thing we need to touch on

671
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 3: is what about people with disabilities?

672
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: Great, great point. Yeah, so we're we are not talking

673
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: about people that want that watch online with a disability

674
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: and they're part they're still members of a church. Because

675
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: if you're still members of a local church, then you

676
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: have members and church leaders visiting you.

677
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: Okay, that's great, but what about after Like what if

678
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 3: you be disabled, you hear about Jesus, you want to

679
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: start searching for churches, you find one online, you can't

680
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: leave the house. You don't have same body of believers

681
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: and members that can come.

682
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: Same thing. But you can't leave the house same thing.

683
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: And that's a great point, a great question. It would

684
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: be the same thing if you're in po Dunk, Iowa

685
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: and you are, say your wheelchair bound, and someone preaches

686
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: the Gospel to you in your care facility and you

687
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: believe and you're reading the Bible and you go I

688
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: want to be part of a church. Then you would

689
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: find one still in that area call them. I mean,

690
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: can you imagine for me if this happened to me.

691
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: It gives me chillos just thinking about it. If someone

692
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: called me and said, Pastor Granger, I've been in a

693
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: care facility, I'm disabled. I heard the gospel. I believe.

694
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: I want you to be my pastor. I want to

695
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: be part. I want to be a member of a

696
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: maas church. We would mount up and meet that person there.

697
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just such a good point on just the

698
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 3: importance of a church and it's members. Like I think

699
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: about our grandma, you know, the the later stages of

700
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: her life. I think about many people that come to mind. Well,

701
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: my first question is what church are you part of?

702
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 3: What members can come help? Can you imagine if you're

703
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: the later stages of your life, an old widow and

704
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: you just don't have anybody, You're just in your house, disabled,

705
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: can't leave. To Granger's point, it's like that's what members

706
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: are for. Like you said, like mount up, we got

707
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: you had our meals, will come every day, We'll bring

708
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 3: you to church. If you can't come to church, we'll

709
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 3: come worship with you.

710
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: We had a member had a baby this morning, and

711
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: Parker's one of our deacons of member needs and his

712
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: wife and I I was like, hey, and a baby born,

713
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: could we start a meal train? And they will start

714
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: that mill trains, you know, members taking meals to that

715
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: family with that newborn baby. There's as you know, party,

716
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: there's like a meal train all the time because of

717
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: surgery or a new baby, or a loss of a

718
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: loved one, or there's like people, it's not just a

719
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: Sunday thing. People are constantly in each other's lives and

720
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: coming over and bringing food and visiting and and we're willing,

721
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: you know, going to weddings and sometimes funerals together, living

722
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: life together. You know, President are sitting here. We were

723
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: talking just last night. We talked for like an hour

724
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: about about when you're part of a local church, a

725
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: healthy local church, you no longer have to make decisions anymore,

726
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: or no, you no longer have to have like decision

727
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: fatigue and decision after you could say, hey, man, I

728
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 1: got Tyler, I got this thing going on. What should

729
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: I do? And I'm I've been praying about it, and

730
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: Tyler goes do this Parker Tyler said this. I've been

731
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: thinking this park goes do this, and you go, okay,

732
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: all right, Lord, and then you say, can you guys

733
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: go with me? Can you talk to this guy with me? Hey?

734
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: Can you You know we're in it. We're in it together.

735
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: That's that's what it means. Preston. I talked about this

736
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: last night. When Jesus says, come to me, all you

737
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: are wearing burden, and I'll give you rest or in

738
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: all the verses that says the Lord is near to

739
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: the broken hearted, What does that mean physically? What is

740
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: near to the broken hearted mean? Physically? Of course, he's

741
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: near us, He's in our hearts as the Holy Spirit,

742
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: you know, the Holy Spirit dwells in us. But but

743
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: more than that, what does it mean to be near us?

744
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: He uses as people and they come around us and

745
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: they love you, and they bring you a meal, and

746
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: they give you a hug, and they take you to coffee,

747
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: and they they they they're they're there with you, living

748
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: life with you. That's always what it's intended to be.

749
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: Taking that away and making it a cold online presence

750
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: is stripping the church. God's grace of the church with

751
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: all of its beauty, you're stripping it away, and you're

752
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: leaving the Christian with a skeleton version of preaching and singing,

753
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a distant, cold reality that doesn't

754
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: warm your heart, and it eventually will kill you. I'm

755
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: convinced of this, pretty passionate about it. I'm so passionate

756
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: about this topic, and I kind of wish you guys

757
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: would talk more because I'm feeling like I'm talking too much.

758
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: I think it's it's kind of interesting too that Jesus

759
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 3: came in the flesh, like he he prioritized enough to

760
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: enter the world literally physically, to be with us, to disciplists,

761
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 3: to teach us, to show us. You know, it's not

762
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 3: really I was just a thought that came to my

763
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 3: mind about how important that being together is. The King

764
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: of kings literally came to sit with us better speaking

765
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: from online through the clouds.

766
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: You know, as a not human. I think that's an

767
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: incredible way to think about it. Christ came the incarnation

768
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: mean God, dwelt among us in the flesh and broke

769
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: bread with us.

770
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:31,720
Speaker 2: A God.

771
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: Ate with us, and drank with us, and cried with us,

772
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: and slept in tents and walked through dirt and suffered

773
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: the loss of great friends and ultimately died on a

774
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: cross and the worst form of execution with his people

775
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: for his people, to be a substitute for his people,

776
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 1: to forgive his people all because he loved as people. Yeah,

777
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: so that his people would know him and love each

778
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: other and tend to each other, and so that there

779
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: could be leaders that tend to the flock, and there

780
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: could be that there could be sheep that that raise

781
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: up to become leaders from within the flock and then

782
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: go off and start new flocks. Yeah.

783
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: So you take that, and then you compare that against

784
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: online and Jesus's love and everything that you just said

785
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 3: for us, for his people, And then you think about

786
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 3: the isolation and how much the devil would love for

787
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: you to stay in your pajamas in your home with

788
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 3: nobody there but you and a screen. You know, it's

789
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 3: something to think about.

790
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: Another thing is what would what does it communicate to

791
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: your kids, like parents out there, what is it communicating

792
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: to your kids when you're deprioritizing a physical gathering. I

793
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: promise you those kids will not respect going to a

794
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: physical church later in their life if they grew up

795
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: seeing mom and dad watch it online. Why would they

796
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: ever go into a real building when they could sleep

797
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: in and eat a donut and wear their pajamas.

798
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 2: Never be I think even more, Never be challenged, never

799
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 2: be questioned, Never have any kind of listen grangeer. If

800
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: you text me and said, hey, I missed you today,

801
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 2: how come you didn't come over for the podcast? Yeah,

802
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I got busy. But I saw you and

803
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: you looked at me, and you go where were you?

804
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: That's way different. We're staring at each other now and

805
00:48:54,040 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: you just want to know, Yeah, there's some accountability between

806
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: two physical people that is not there with this or

807
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: a computer screen or anything else. And as much as

808
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 2: I've told you my good I had a great experience

809
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: with online church for what you can have a great

810
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: experience online church with sure, And I will tell you

811
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 2: oft you said to you want other people to talk.

812
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: I I pushed back on things, but I will tell

813
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: you it is not the answer. Online church is not

814
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: the answer you. If you can't be what you just said,

815
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 2: we can't be involved in each other's lives in a

816
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: physical way. If all it is is digital, there's a barrier.

817
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 2: It's a bear. There's a barrier it's you know, more

818
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: than more than clothes.

819
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: Almost, like we talked about last week.

820
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of that, and it all kind

821
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: of and it's funny that that one comment that I

822
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: read was that it said AI church, which evidently you

823
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: know that is what it can and could become. What

824
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: are you? How are you involved in each other's lives

825
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 2: every day of the week, seven days a week, not

826
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 2: one day, not for thirty minutes or forty five minutes.

827
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: How you know? Who are you doing life with? And

828
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: I will tell you, Oh, go ahead, go ahead, I'll

829
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: tell you that that right there was what we were like,

830
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: we're having a good experience, but we're missing something. Wow,

831
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 2: we're having a great experience and we're investing in others'

832
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: lives and we're praying with people and we're seeing God

833
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 2: change people, but we're missing something. And He's like, not

834
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 2: in my church.

835
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: And dude, and I'm sorry, I didn't know this conversation

836
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: was going this way before we started recording. And I

837
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: didn't know that you were going to have this. Here's

838
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 1: history with online church?

839
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't tell you until we sit down.

840
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: I actually had a long history with them.

841
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: So like you kind of see my shock in this

842
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: was real time. Well good, But I want to tell

843
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: you also, first of all, I love you. And what

844
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: the local church also does is it it gives you

845
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: assurance of the faith. Yes, because we could deceive ourselves

846
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: and we could start to say things like I don't

847
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: know I read the Bible and I don't even know

848
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: if I'm actually a Christian. Yep, I still sin so

849
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: have these thoughts. Who's to say I'm not just deceiving myself.

850
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 3: I'm not.

851
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm not even a believer or the flip side of that. Yeah,

852
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm a believer. Of course, I'm a believer. I've always

853
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: been a believer. Nothing gonna stop me from thinking I'm

854
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: a believer. What the church does is they affirm that

855
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: belief that you make the profession, and the church affirms

856
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: the profession because they walk with you. So your people

857
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: at first Baptist Slado Anthony, is he a Christian? Yeah?

858
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: How do you know? I've seen him day in and

859
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: day out. I've seen hi. I'm seeing him, pray. I've

860
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: seen him coming in here with his wife and his daughter.

861
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: I've seen him through good times and bad times. I've

862
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: seen him. I've seen him come through and this and that,

863
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: and I've seen him. I've seen him steadfast with the Lord.

864
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: It's not that he's perfect, but i've seen him. I've

865
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: seen his walk. That man is a believer. And then

866
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: how about you, Sally, I could affirm ant man's a

867
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: bel how about you, Tom, I'm with him too. We

868
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: could all affirm Anthony's. So even when you're saying I

869
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm a Christian, there's all these people

870
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: come around and you go, you are brother, stand firm,

871
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: you're with us?

872
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 2: A church does that, agreed?

873
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: Man? Don't we need that?

874
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: Everyone does? And it's not some people, and it's not

875
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: a few of us or the majority of us. Every

876
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: single believer needs that. Yeah, every single one. Yeah. The

877
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: ninety nine and the one are just numbers that Jesus

878
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 2: used in the parables. It's every single it's not one hundred,

879
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: it's every single one.

880
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 3: You online, you could ask that question and then you

881
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 3: could give a little thumbs emoji.

882
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: Do we affirm? And everybody does it?

883
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 2: So you have done it.

884
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: But I could imagine what it's like. Ephesians four fifteen says,

885
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: rather speaking the truth and love, we are to grow

886
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: up in every way into Him who is the head

887
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: into Christ, from whom the whole body joined and held

888
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: together by every joint with which it is equipped. When

889
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: each part is working properly, making the body grow so

890
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: that it builds itself up in love. So when each member,

891
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: each part of the body is working properly, the body

892
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: grows and is built up in itself. That growth happens together.

893
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: We grow together.

894
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 3: So for the people listening like that don't know where

895
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 3: to find a healthy church, what is a resource that

896
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 3: we can give them? That's this little book? Why should

897
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 3: I join a church? I mean they live in Podunk, Nebraska.

898
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: Seem to giving this away. Maybe we should do this, Okay,

899
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 1: so specifically to Podunk Nebraska.

900
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 3: There an hour outside of Lincoln, middle of nowhere.

901
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: If you're in if you're in America, you're already in

902
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: good shape. Which is literally the reason we have missions,

903
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 1: because there are unreached people that don't even You know what,

904
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: when we think about missions, we think about global outreach,

905
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 1: and our are absolute mandate to do that as believers,

906
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: to carry out the Great commission, along with other believers

907
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: from every decade before us, to take the Gospel to

908
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: all nations, to teach with discipleship others to obey Christ.

909
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: When we say that and we think about unreached people,

910
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: we're not talking about the neighbor down the road who's

911
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: never heard the gospel because he has access to it.

912
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: Mike down here, who he doesn't have a God at all,

913
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: he's just an atheist, and we go, he's never even

914
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: heard the gospel. That's Mike's not considered unreached because he's

915
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: around the Bible belt. He has, you know, he drives

916
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: to work every day and sees fifteen churches. But we're

917
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: talking about unreached people who literally will will be born,

918
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 1: will they will, they will be born, and they will

919
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: die and never hear about Christ, not because they don't

920
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: want to, because it's literally not accessible. So we take

921
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 1: it when we when we think about reaching the nations,

922
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: we're thinking in that way. But when we're talking about

923
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: Potunt Nebraska, there is most likely in Podunk Nebraska a

924
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: church that might not check every box, but it's a

925
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: it's got a pastor who fears the Lord, loves Jesus,

926
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: and and he will be sufficient for sitting under and

927
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: loving your neighbor within that.

928
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 2: Local body.

929
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: Better than church home in Seattle online. But pattro I

930
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: would highly encourage that brother or sister to consider moving

931
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: to another town with it what they know is a

932
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: healthy church.

933
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that the town where we grew up, or at

934
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 3: least Parker did. Population two twenty seven. I looked it

935
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,479
Speaker 3: up the other day. Is talking about hometowns, and there's

936
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 3: two churches that I know of and in a town

937
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 3: with a population of two hundred people. So yeah, that's

938
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 3: a good place to start.

939
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: And then and then I've heard of people driving because

940
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: some people drive an hour, live in Podunk, whatever, drive

941
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: an hour to to Lincoln or to Omaha to uh

942
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: a good church. So there's there's three options. I would

943
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: say my my biggest encouragement would be move. It's it's

944
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: that important to leave your job and get a new job.

945
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: It's that important to move your kids out of the school.

946
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: It's that important to move. Second option to be drive

947
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: an hour, drive an hour. It's hard to do that

948
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: because you're now you're you're needing to spend the entire

949
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: Sunday and sometimes Wednesdays. You wouldn't think twice if it's

950
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: your job to drive into town for an hour for

951
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: that commute. People do that all the time. And then

952
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: the third option, take your kids to practice. Yeah, but

953
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: you hesitate when it's you take your kids to a

954
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: to a travel ball tournament three hours away, no problem

955
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,439
Speaker 1: on a Sunday. And then the third option, there's there's

956
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,479
Speaker 1: some church in that town where some some pastor loves

957
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: the Lord and you might not check every box, but

958
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: he loves the Lord and you could serve your people.

959
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: Well there, that's that's option number three. All of those

960
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: prevent death over online church Parker nothing. Don Marker knows

961
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: a lot about this topic.

962
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 5: He knows a lot. And he is being very quiet,

963
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: and her dad's some caffeine. Back into mind my life.

964
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 5: We're going to do a book giveaway.

965
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna give that one away.

966
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it.

967
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: I had this one you had somebody there.

968
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that book. One begin to read that.

969
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: Have you read that book?

970
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 2: Which one? Is it?

971
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: Narrow Gate?

972
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: Narrow Way?

973
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: No? I have two of them. They're they're little bitty books.

974
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: And and then as I started to kind of think

975
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: it through ideas, I was like, maybe I should do

976
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: this book. Why should I join a church? It has

977
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: it super It's like forty pages. But he gives. He gives,

978
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: like I think there's seven reasons. Join a church to

979
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 1: display the gospel. The gospel. The church is the gathered people.

980
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: That's the church. The gospel is displayed through the gathered

981
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: people loving each other from all different all different backgrounds,

982
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: coming together united in Christ and loving each other. That

983
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: is a strange thing to the world. Number two, Join

984
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: a church because the Bible requires it. We talked a

985
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: little bit about that. Number three, Join a church to

986
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: love other Christians and edify the church. If our commandment

987
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: is love your neighbor, love others, how could you do that?

988
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: And you can't do that in isolation. You can't do

989
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: that in isolation. Number what am I for? Join a

990
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: church to evangelize the world. The church then sends out

991
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: and goes. It gathers to scatter, goes into the neighborhoods

992
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: to evangelize, goes into the nations as the church. Number five.

993
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: Join a church to assure yourself. We talked about that

994
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: assurance comes from the church. Number six. Join a church

995
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: to expose false gospels. The church decides if there's false teaching,

996
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: and we know this because Jesus rebukes the church. You

997
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: allowed this false teaching you allowed. This is funny. There's

998
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: plenty of rebuking the false teachers, but it's funny that

999
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: he goes after the church. You allowed this. So this

1000
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: is on you. This blood's on your hands. Oh man, yeah, yeah, okay.

1001
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: So the church, the collective God that gathered church rejects

1002
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: false Gospel number seven. Of course we should guess join

1003
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: a church to glorify God. If you're a Christian, you

1004
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: should join a church for the glory of God. Peter

1005
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: wrote to some early Christians live such good lives among

1006
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: the pagans that they accuse you of doing wrong. They

1007
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: may see your good deeds and glorify God on the

1008
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: day that he visits us one Peter, two twelve. That's amazing.

1009
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 2: What's it called?

1010
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: Why should I Join a Church? A little pamphlet about

1011
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: forty pages long.

1012
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 2: All right, so comment join a church? Join a church,

1013
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 2: And for the people asking about how are they notified?

1014
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 2: You'll have a comment on your comment from Caden that

1015
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: will be asking you for some details. So that's how

1016
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 2: you'll know it's you. If it's you, you will have

1017
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: a comment on you your comment. Uh, so you can

1018
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 2: write anything else you want to make sure you're right,

1019
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 2: join a church if you would like to get that book.

1020
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: We have some guests here as we always do. Plus, Kayden,

1021
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: did we miss anything in this conversation? Did you guys

1022
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: have something occurred to you as we're talking. You're like,

1023
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: you didn't bring that up? That they should where they

1024
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: have small Yeah, we should do another episode on small groups.

1025
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm actually against you might say what he said because yeah, sorry,

1026
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: you're right. He said, what if your what if your

1027
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: church is so big that your pastors can't know you

1028
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: because it's so big, but they have small groups? Which

1029
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: is which is such an American argument, so many churches,

1030
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: And it's a good question, Caleb, but I would actually

1031
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: argue that small groups actually hinder the fellowship of the

1032
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: gathering because it for men in many ways, one being

1033
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: it creates clicks, and it actually harms the church from

1034
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: being able to come together as a church. Instead, they're

1035
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: coming together in groups that never see each other and

1036
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: never have fellowship and usually stay for long periods of

1037
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: time and are hard to get into and hard to

1038
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: get out of. And so big churches constantly push this idea, Well,

1039
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: we have a big church in our pastor may not

1040
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: know you but that's why we have small groups, and

1041
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: so we just get But now the teachings divided, the

1042
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: people are segregated. They're usually clicking together because of they

1043
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: like each other and they have stuff in common, and

1044
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: all of that is actually hindering fellowship of the body

1045
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: itself because Jesus talks about the body coming together with

1046
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: all its different members and building each other up because

1047
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: of all the differences in the members. But then you're

1048
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: clicking out in these small groups that are similar to

1049
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: each other, and nobody's beenefitting and it ends up just

1050
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: being a buddy group that you just sit there and

1051
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: talk about, Hey, who else has got something going on

1052
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: wrong in their life right now? And how could we

1053
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: give a word of encouragement? And that's just not church,

1054
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: not Smarker.

1055
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if you how much you want

1056
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 4: to go into small groups, but the other issues a

1057
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 4: lot of times they you just end up in a

1058
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 4: group of people who are in a similar life stage

1059
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 4: as you, or you'd probably be friends with anyway, even

1060
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 4: if Jesus didn't rise from the dead.

1061
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: And like, one of the things that's so cool.

1062
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 4: About about a gospel witness of a church is when

1063
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 4: you have people like I'm convicted about this right now

1064
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,479
Speaker 4: because I do meet with guys in my similar life

1065
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 4: stage weekly, and I need to like constantly be challenged

1066
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 4: to reach out to people who are not in my

1067
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 4: same life stage, because that's what makes the church so

1068
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 4: awesome is when you have somebody that's you know, you

1069
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 4: have the sixty five year old black guy with the

1070
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 4: twenty five year old white guy and that are in

1071
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:03,439
Speaker 4: completely different life stages, but get together because they both

1072
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 4: love Jesus and they can like live that out in

1073
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 4: a way that the world is like. And what world

1074
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 4: would you two be getting lunched together on a Tuesday.

1075
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: This beautiful man. Amen. Yeah, that's that's such a gospel

1076
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: witness when you which is once again why I'm against

1077
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: cowboy churches. That's why I'm against biker churches. I'm not

1078
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: saying this every podcast. I'm against any kind of clique

1079
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: churches that calls out specific kinds or groups or or

1080
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: ethnicities of people. And when you call a group out

1081
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: like that, it's not a church that, as you have

1082
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: decided now because because of you're you agree politically or

1083
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: you agree even work wise. Now, I'm not saying you

1084
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:51,439
Speaker 1: whenever I make this argument. I got to say too,

1085
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: it's not like you go to Kenya and you go

1086
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: look at this churches. Everyone looks very Kenyon. Well, of course,

1087
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: because you're going to be influenced by your geography obviously,

1088
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: but I think as so much as your community allows,

1089
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: your church should look like a ragtag group of people

1090
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 1: that Christ called out of the world and to each other.

1091
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: And that's different age groups and different different economic statuses,

1092
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: and many times even looking very different small groups always

1093
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 1: hinder that they end up dividing people that were kind

1094
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: of like Parker said, same age group, kind of same

1095
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 1: life stage.

1096
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 4: And God's just so specific about the shepherd's role, not

1097
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 4: the small group's role. Like there is like interpersonal co

1098
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 4: accountability that happens through the church, that can happen through

1099
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 4: meeting regularly for coffee during the week and stuff, but

1100
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 4: that doesn't replace God's means of the shepherding of the flock,

1101
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 4: which is for the pastors.

1102
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: You think about Jesus when he called his group of

1103
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: disciples it's original group. He called a zelot, a Jewish

1104
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: zelot that was like, you know, the hardcore keeper of

1105
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: the religion. And then he calls a tax collector, and

1106
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: he says, you guys, work it out your mind. Now

1107
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 1: I'm calling you guys both. Can you imagine the conversations

1108
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: between a Zelot and a tax collector, tax collector being

1109
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: a jew that was working with the Roman government right

1110
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: to tax the Jewish people, and the Zelots like, we

1111
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: need a breakaway, we need a revolt from the Roman empire.

1112
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: And you got this trader that's working with him. And

1113
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: Jesus says, you and you together, let's go, ready to walk.

1114
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: Those two guys would never have picked each other.

1115
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, and more times than I did, did

1116
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 2: everything they could just stay away from that other.

1117
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Okay, where are we at it?

1118
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 2: Like it's it, We're good. Yeah.

1119
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: The gospel, which which I said earlier, is that Christ

1120
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: Christ is in our place. He died of the cross

1121
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: so that anyone who looks to him, anyone that looks

1122
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: to him, would be saved and be forgiven of their sins,

1123
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: would be what would not be seen as condemned in

1124
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:19,520
Speaker 1: front of a holy God because of their sin. Amen, hallelujah.

1125
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: Christ did that to all who looked at him, all

1126
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: different people and tongues and economic situations in life stages,

1127
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 1: all who look to him will be saved. That's the gospel.

1128
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: And when those people believe and they look to Christ

1129
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: as their savior, they always it's like a it's like

1130
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 1: a knee jerk reflex. They want to find other people

1131
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: who see Christ the same way, and they end up

1132
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: in the church. You don't have to tell Christians to

1133
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: find a church. They will find it eventually. They want

1134
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 1: to start looking, and so sometimes we do this podcast.

1135
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: The whole idea is we say things just so that

1136
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: one person out there goes he's saying what I knew

1137
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 1: to be true in my heart already. You know, I'm

1138
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 1: not telling you a new idea that the Holy Spirit

1139
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: has not already witnessed within you. You're hearing it and

1140
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 1: you go, that's what I thought was right, and I

1141
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: just couldn't articulate it. Honey. Let's find the church. That's

1142
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: all we got. Let's seey'll next time, ye