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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. There is an elite

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Speaker 1: group of economists and UH politicians, bankers, philanthropists who meet

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Speaker 1: up every year at Camp ko Talk to UH to

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Speaker 1: cast a Rod. I don't know if that's even how

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Speaker 1: you say it, but um David KO Talk joins us

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Speaker 1: himself right now, Chairman and chief investment Officer at Cumberland Advisors. David,

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Speaker 1: I feel like McKee has gone, Rid Holtz has gone.

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Hayes, I've never gotten invite to Camp COO Talk

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Speaker 1: might be a reason. Officially and in the presence of

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Speaker 1: anybody who's listening in care, you are invited this August,

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Speaker 1: and we would love to have you. They made I

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Speaker 1: can actually go home now, but I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you a couple of questions. David, first, about the state

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Speaker 1: of the U S economy, especially in light of today's

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Speaker 1: jobs report, it looked great, but there's still millions of

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Speaker 1: people without jobs. We talked about the high savings rate,

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Speaker 1: but there's so many people who can't even afford to

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Speaker 1: pay rent. Is this is this K shaped recovery a

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Speaker 1: problem for the FED? For example, it appears so um.

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Speaker 1: J Pal said so um. Others in the FED continue

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Speaker 1: to say so. And we shouldn't be deceived by the

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Speaker 1: six percent or so official unemployment rate. When you recomputed,

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Speaker 1: to reflect some technical differences, it's closer to say ten percent.

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Speaker 1: So you think about that. You say, see, there were

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Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty five million, hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: two millions something like that non farm payrolls before COVID started,

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Speaker 1: and there's fifteen million people out of that group that

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Speaker 1: are not employed today. Some of them have dropped out,

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Speaker 1: some of them are in the unemployment rate. That the

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Speaker 1: picture is recovery which is robust, but it's coming off

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Speaker 1: a very deep bottom. So I wouldn't get sanguine that

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Speaker 1: everything's going back to normal and everything is wonderful. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we're there yet, but the trend is good, David.

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Speaker 1: You know, we again, the trend is good, there's also

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Speaker 1: been some I guess the murmur starting to build here

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks about inflation and and

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Speaker 1: maybe not the good kind of inflation. How are you

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Speaker 1: thinking about kind of what we're seeing maybe in the

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Speaker 1: commodities markets, we're seeing the treasuries tenure over one point

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Speaker 1: six percent even earlier this morning. How do you think

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Speaker 1: about inflation? Well, we we look at inflation expectation. They

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Speaker 1: are building, there's various ways to estimate them, and they're

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Speaker 1: all saying that the expectation is rising. My colleague Jung

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Speaker 1: Whoso talks about that all the time. The problem is

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Speaker 1: expectations are one thing. Delivering a change in the price

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Speaker 1: level of a strategic elevation is something else. Again, hard

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Speaker 1: to see it when you have a true unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: somewhere around ten percent in the country. So maybe down

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Speaker 1: the road it comes. But we're more mild or sanguine

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Speaker 1: about higher inflation risk than some of the others. Actually

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Speaker 1: spoke yesterday with Scott Minerd of Guggenheim. He's well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's an outlier, right, he thinks the tenure yield could

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Speaker 1: go negative. But his point was that disinflationary um forces

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Speaker 1: are much stronger than what he sees as transient inflation.

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Speaker 1: He says, you always see a spike in yields like this,

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Speaker 1: but it's um you know, but but it doesn't stay.

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Speaker 1: Do you look at historically and come of the same

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Speaker 1: conclusion pretty much? So I saw the U I saw

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Speaker 1: the interview with Scott and and the you know their

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Speaker 1: two camps. Now there's the camp that says, jee, the

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Speaker 1: FETE is printing all this money, we're having all this

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Speaker 1: defic set spending, We're going to get a big inflation.

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Speaker 1: Well sometimes that happens, but there's a lot of history

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Speaker 1: it says that doesn't happen. And I raised a different perspective.

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Speaker 1: I say, to get inflation, you need two things. You

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Speaker 1: need rising labor income, which is robust. We don't have

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Speaker 1: that yet. We're in a recovery, but it's not robust yet.

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Speaker 1: And the second thing is you need private sector credit multipliers,

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Speaker 1: and that's the monetary piece. We don't have that either.

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Speaker 1: So if you create a lot of bank reserves and

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Speaker 1: they sit there and they're sterilized, and the transfer payments

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Speaker 1: coming from the federal government are not capital investments, but

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Speaker 1: what they're doing is ridging gaps across the valley to

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Speaker 1: keep people surviving. I don't see the inflation forces yet

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Speaker 1: in place, and I don't believe you you treager inflation

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Speaker 1: by looking at a change in an oil price. The

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Speaker 1: Federal Reserve can drill for oil. It's in monetary and

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Speaker 1: banking multipliers, and the multipliers aren't there yet. And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like you're coming so quickly to us, all right, David,

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Speaker 1: If if inflation is not at least a near term

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Speaker 1: concern here, it seems like the bulls have kind of

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Speaker 1: the runway here, given the backdrop they're seeing with the

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Speaker 1: FED and with the potentially reopening trade here. Where are

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Speaker 1: you finding the best opportunities right now? In the stock market,

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Speaker 1: we think you have to be in it all. You

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Speaker 1: have to be in it. We're looking at maybe SMP

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Speaker 1: five hundred earnings at around a two hundred dollar level

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Speaker 1: in the recovery and trending upward. In the bond market,

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Speaker 1: you you know, we favor the municipal bond sector, the

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Speaker 1: tax free bond yields and structure, and the tax free

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Speaker 1: market are ignoring part of the value of the arbitrage

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Speaker 1: in the US tax code. I, for one, don't see

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Speaker 1: how tax rates go down. They may stay the same

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Speaker 1: or they may go up. But there's a value in

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Speaker 1: the tax free sector. It has to be understood. It's

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Speaker 1: a different kind of market than a corporate bird treasury

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Speaker 1: bond market. So we like that as well. David, I

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Speaker 1: just want to uh uh talk for a moment about

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Speaker 1: the kind of fraud that you're seeing and if it's

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Speaker 1: worrying you, because it is in your latest note you

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Speaker 1: go through some state by state cases. Is it concerned

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Speaker 1: you think or should we be focused on the bigger picture? No,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a serious concern about flaws in the

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Speaker 1: state by state data. And we see it in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Now it's going to cost the state of Florida millions

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Speaker 1: to redo their unemployment system. We see it in Ohio,

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Speaker 1: we see it in California, we see it Arinzona, we

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Speaker 1: see bits and pieces everywhere. I published that piece and

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Speaker 1: I had a response from a friend and said, we

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Speaker 1: have two hundred people in our company who were advised

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Speaker 1: that their initial unemployment claims were processed and none of

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Speaker 1: them applied for it. So the fact is there's a problem,

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Speaker 1: and the problem has two implications. Number one, how do

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Speaker 1: you rely on data when you know it's flawed and

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Speaker 1: the flaws are changing, so I'm not consistent. And number two,

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Speaker 1: it gives fuel to the people who don't want to

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Speaker 1: help people the ones who needed to get across the valley.

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Speaker 1: So it's a problem. Hey, David, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. We always appreciate chatting with you. David Kotalk,

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Speaker 1: chairman and chief investment officer of Kumbling Advisors, also the

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Speaker 1: author co author of the book Adventures in Muni Land.

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Speaker 1: We'll have more coming up. This is Bloomberg. We're just

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Speaker 1: talking about tech Stox. Greg jeb was talking about text

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Speaker 1: stocks and Tesla. When you think about tech stocks, met

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Speaker 1: One of our faves is Dan I. He's a managing

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Speaker 1: director equity research at wed Bush Securities. Dan, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us, really timely here. You've been, you know,

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Speaker 1: very bullish on your tech sector for a long time.

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Speaker 1: You've been very right tech Stox getting the short end

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Speaker 1: of this rotation trade. If you will, Let's step back

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Speaker 1: and I'd love you to share your thoughts on kind

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Speaker 1: of some of the big tech names which have been

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Speaker 1: so good for so long. How are you thinking about

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Speaker 1: that that sector now? Sure? And it's great to be

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Speaker 1: on well. Right now, it's a white knuckle period with

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Speaker 1: what you're seeing in a ten year in the rotation trade,

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Speaker 1: and you're seeing some of these crowded names hit the

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Speaker 1: sell button. But to me, this is short term. I

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Speaker 1: believe tech stocks go up another this year and we

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Speaker 1: are in the midst We're in the middle of what

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Speaker 1: I've used a multi year bull rally for tech stocks,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't change with the forty bits moving the tenure.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of valuations do you think are healthy then,

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Speaker 1: because some of them are really high. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess it's not fair to look at earnings for Tesla

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Speaker 1: but a thousand times look, I think right now the conundrum,

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Speaker 1: almost say, the quagmire for investors is how do you

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Speaker 1: value five trillion dollars of growth over the next decade.

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Speaker 1: And that's really what the ev market is of course

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Speaker 1: right now, Tessa Math, we lead in that market. I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's the question. Right now. You see in

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Speaker 1: the digestion period, and of course valuation is going to

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Speaker 1: be a nice right here. But to me, these are

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Speaker 1: stocks that are going to grow into their evaluation. Tassa

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Speaker 1: Fernt and Center and re rate higher, and I view

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Speaker 1: this is just it's a timbercent pullback that we've seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of high gripthmes anywhere from and Paul I

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Speaker 1: view this as a golden buying opportunity in tech. I

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Speaker 1: think we probably get this. You know, this could be

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Speaker 1: our shot in terms of this year. Just just checked

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Speaker 1: in OR or e V s. I mean, Folkswagen is

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Speaker 1: coming on strong. They're targeting at e V share in

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Speaker 1: China and the US by thirty. They're targeting a sevent

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Speaker 1: EV share in Europe and they have you know, seventy

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Speaker 1: billion dollars to invest to make it happen. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it speaks to what GM's done and Marry, I mean

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Speaker 1: they're diving into the deep end of the pool and evs,

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Speaker 1: but we're do you like? But do you like folks Wagen? Now?

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Speaker 1: To me, I like GM in particular in terms of

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Speaker 1: one that's going to have success. I think volkswagging. The

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Speaker 1: key with them is what they're doing on the MOBU

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Speaker 1: or build out of EV and their quantums gave ownership.

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Speaker 1: I think that's came from the battery technology. And I

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Speaker 1: think EV we're talking about probably the most transform national

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Speaker 1: opportunity that I've seen twenty plus years of covering tack

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Speaker 1: and disruptive technology. All Right, Dan, let's back away from

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Speaker 1: the Tesla EV a little bit. Talk to us a

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Speaker 1: little about five G. That's another big theme that we

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Speaker 1: hear coming out of technology companies, telecommunications companies. How should

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Speaker 1: we be thinking about five G and and what are

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Speaker 1: the names that you like as a play on five G. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in five G we're still probably the first inning of

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Speaker 1: this all building out In China, they've been ahead, but

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Speaker 1: when you look what's happened in US from a five

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Speaker 1: G perspective, this is really building out the infrastructure from

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Speaker 1: a hotelcom services perspective over the next decade. And our

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Speaker 1: best five G play continues to be Apple because of

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Speaker 1: the supercycled it's playing out in real time, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's still gonna be a three trillion dollar mark

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Speaker 1: ap this year. And then you look at some of

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Speaker 1: the supply chain please like a qual Calm as well

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Speaker 1: as across Semis, which is why we're bullish on Semis

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Speaker 1: as well as just the overall sector with five G

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Speaker 1: as a tall in Apple clearly the biggest beneficiary there.

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Speaker 1: What do you think I read a story today about

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Speaker 1: China laying a cable that goes um, I think from Pakistan,

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Speaker 1: then around the Horn of Africa and then up onto

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Speaker 1: a beach in Marseille. It's gonna deliver um in one second,

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Speaker 1: the ability to play nine thousand Netflix movies. I mean

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Speaker 1: just super fast internet. Um. But I instantly thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: I wonder where the backdoors are built in, Like cybersecurity

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Speaker 1: must be a huge issue. Well right now cyber security

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Speaker 1: continues to where we've seen post Sowar Wind's attacked as

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Speaker 1: well as across the board. This is probably the biggest

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Speaker 1: tame point facing enterprise and governments today especially is more

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Speaker 1: and more moved to the cloud, and that's why there's

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Speaker 1: names like a Z scale or a power out, a

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Speaker 1: style points cybersecurity, that basket that that continues to probably

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Speaker 1: be one of our most bullish areas of tech. And

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Speaker 1: I think half those companies could get acquired in terms

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Speaker 1: of consolidation and will give a step back. It's a

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Speaker 1: fourth generation industrial revolution going on. That's why what I

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Speaker 1: look in terms of the trillions spent, we trust it's

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Speaker 1: to pound the table moment unpacked. Despite some of the

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Speaker 1: white knuckles that we're seeing in many bears who've been

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Speaker 1: hibernation mode the last year now calling fire in a

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Speaker 1: cloud theater. So, Dan, when you talk to institutional investors,

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Speaker 1: I don't you don't get to visit them anymore in

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Speaker 1: this in this water, in but any you do lots

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Speaker 1: of phone calls and things like that. What do you

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Speaker 1: what's kind of them? Dude? Clients don't do zoom my

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Speaker 1: mom guessing it's hard enough to get him on the phone.

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Speaker 1: But Dan, what are they? What's the pushback you're getting

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Speaker 1: from people that maybe have changed their minds on tech

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Speaker 1: and in fact have turned negative on tech. I think

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Speaker 1: the pushback is, are you are you catching the following night?

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Speaker 1: Are these stocks that are going to continue to move

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Speaker 1: high down in terms of valuation? Reading the other way?

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Speaker 1: And what gives you that confidence? And that's where I

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Speaker 1: think where you're going to start to see in terms

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Speaker 1: of the fundamentals. I think street numbers move up another

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Speaker 1: ten to fifteen percent this year. But I think what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see is over the next week, I believe

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have a massive bounce back in tech. And

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Speaker 1: that's where you start to see some of the green

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Speaker 1: lights and the technic goals start to improve, but right now,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest war. No one wants to

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Speaker 1: be the first to jump into the pool. In terms

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Speaker 1: of this market, I saw an awesome story the other day.

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates and the actor Robert Downey Jr. Are investing

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Speaker 1: in a company called turn Tide. It's still small, it's

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Speaker 1: not publicly traded yet, but they make it a motor

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Speaker 1: that is able to produce the same amount of power

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Speaker 1: as another electric motor with thirty less electricity. It's not

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Speaker 1: all about bad right there are other improvements that can

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Speaker 1: be made in e vis. It's a green title that

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Speaker 1: that I believe is going to happen. The U S

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Speaker 1: Bodens driven, especially with a blue cent, and we're talking

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Speaker 1: something that's really gonna change the whole ecosystem, not just

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Speaker 1: auto but sore and really across the whole, not just

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Speaker 1: domestic but globally. And I think there's a massive impact

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Speaker 1: here for the coming years. That's why I just cost

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Speaker 1: him with investors. When you're playing ev and you're playing

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Speaker 1: the basket, I think that this continues. Probably one of

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Speaker 1: the most unique opportunities to the sector that I've seen

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Speaker 1: in dectide. I hope someone figures out a way for

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Speaker 1: evis to make a sweet noise I like, I like

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Speaker 1: a good V eight exhaust note, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: if fake is going to cut it anyway, Dan, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Always a pleasure talking to you.

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Speaker 1: Dana Eyes, Managing director for Equity Research at wed Bush Securities.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Your jobs number came out today. The

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Speaker 1: headline were certainly impressive, seventy jobs at unemployment rate officially

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Speaker 1: ticking down yet again. Uh, let's get a sense of

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Speaker 1: what's going on at street level, at the company level.

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Speaker 1: We do that with Tom Gimble. He's a founder at

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Speaker 1: CEO of LaSalle Network, based in Chicago's lasal Network is

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Speaker 1: one of the leading staffing and recruiting firms in the country. Tom,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. Again that the

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Speaker 1: numbers we got today were certainly certainly positive. What are

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Speaker 1: you hearing and seeing from the clients that you talked

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Speaker 1: to on a daily basis? Positives and understatement, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we should be throwing parties in the street like it's

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Speaker 1: Mardi Gras. I'm with you. I'm as optimistic as it

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Speaker 1: gets on this kind of stuff. But I didn't think

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Speaker 1: it was going to be this big. And what I've

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Speaker 1: been seeing is companies of all shapes and sizes, non hospitality,

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Speaker 1: non restaurants, have been hiring. I didn't think we were

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Speaker 1: going to get this bump until the weather really got

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Speaker 1: good in April or May. Job numbers. UM. So this

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Speaker 1: is really a sign that the second and third quarter

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Speaker 1: are really going to be fantastic. But companies are hiring

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Speaker 1: at all, all levels of positions across the board right now.

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Speaker 1: There was an awesome chart tom this morning showing that

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Speaker 1: investors are really betting on summer vacation at least um

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Speaker 1: here in Europe, and we don't even have the vaccines.

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Speaker 1: Um that you guys have the S and T the

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Speaker 1: stock six hundred Travel and Leisure Index just absolutely soaring. Um.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we're gonna see business travel keep up

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Speaker 1: with um? You know, the trips were all planning down

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Speaker 1: to New Orleans for example. I think that will be

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Speaker 1: the last one, at the last thing to come back. Actually,

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Speaker 1: because the the economy is going to grow organically and

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Speaker 1: innately in the second and third quarter, because of the vaccine,

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Speaker 1: because of summer in hospitality coming back, that business travel

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Speaker 1: won't need Businesses will think they don't need to do

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Speaker 1: business travel of the second and third quarter. And what

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Speaker 1: we'll start to see is eventually that's when the small

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Speaker 1: scrappy companies put people on airplane because they know that

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Speaker 1: if they get in front of people, they'll be able

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Speaker 1: to differentiate. I think it'll be a real emergence of

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Speaker 1: the entrepreneurial company because they will travel and big companies

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Speaker 1: to keep earnings being positive, we'll pull back on TNE

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Speaker 1: because that's where they met a lot of their profit numbers.

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Speaker 1: So Tom again, the headline numbers were very good. You

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Speaker 1: dig down a little bit deeper, there were some issues

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Speaker 1: for concern. The African American unemployment rate actually ticked up

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Speaker 1: a little bit. What's the concern that as we come

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Speaker 1: out of this pandemic and out of this jobless issue,

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Speaker 1: that it's going to be perhaps more unequal than many

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Speaker 1: would like. Well, I think what we're really gonna have

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Speaker 1: well on on the racial issue. You know, as you

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Speaker 1: saw during the elections like the last year, is as

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Speaker 1: the former administration went to out how great things were

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Speaker 1: from minority hiring because of the a lot of the

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Speaker 1: lack of education and poverty areas that that tends to

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Speaker 1: be one of the laggers, which is a shame. I

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Speaker 1: think an education forward thinking administration should help that. Where

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Speaker 1: I'm really concerned about UH into the future is the

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Speaker 1: white collar blue collar service level divide. And what I

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Speaker 1: mean by that is what we've seen over the past

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Speaker 1: year is that white collar jobs can be done remotely,

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Speaker 1: but obviously blue collars job plus truck drivers plus cash

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Speaker 1: register workers cannot. And eventually, whether you're black, brown, white, orange,

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Speaker 1: or green, it doesn't matter. There's gonna be resentment of

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Speaker 1: why are you working from home when I'm going into

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Speaker 1: the factory every day or driving the truck, And we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have some real sociological issues that go beyond gender

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Speaker 1: and or race into deeper, deeper issues than that. That's

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Speaker 1: going to be an interesting economic and job problem that

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Speaker 1: we faced. Tom. What do you think about the minimum

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Speaker 1: wage debate? It looks like, you know, it's done for

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Speaker 1: now unless Kamala Harris kind of jumps in and does

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Speaker 1: something last minute, or the government's table to do something separately,

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Speaker 1: But is it just too hard for people in Middle

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Speaker 1: America to imagine paying fifteen dollars an hour? How does

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Speaker 1: it shake out? Yeah, that's the problem is that several

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Speaker 1: minimum wage is a floor and and I think too

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Speaker 1: many people look at it as what everybody's gotta gotta

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Speaker 1: be making, and it really is a geographic uh issue.

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Speaker 1: So should somebody in New York be getting fifteen an hour? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Should somebody in Tulta maybe not? And I think if

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Speaker 1: they could compromise somehow, it's become seven, seventy five or

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Speaker 1: fifteen and nothing in between. And maybe it's time for

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Speaker 1: a ten or eleven dollar an hour minimum wage federally,

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Speaker 1: but most of the municipalities are drawing that line up anyways.

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Speaker 1: And I think you're looking at small retail businesses. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I work in downtown Chicago. We have uh Sundurys slash

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Speaker 1: convenience store in our lobby that was run by an

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Speaker 1: Indian immigrant for twenty years. He's not a business now.

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Speaker 1: And even if he could come back, it's vacant. He's been.

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Speaker 1: He's gone because nobody was coming into the office. Even

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Speaker 1: if he could, he couldn't have afforded to keep it

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Speaker 1: running by paying somebody fifteen dollars an hour to work

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Speaker 1: with him. So we've got real problems to think that

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Speaker 1: that's what's gonna be the stagger to keep the economy going.

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Speaker 1: It's not You've got to get people working and help

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Speaker 1: people and and paying them more isn't going to help

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Speaker 1: the entrepreneur in the small business owner, It's gonna hurt him. Hey, Tom,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much. We appreciate that as always. Tom Gimble,

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Speaker 1: founder at CEO of LASAL Network. We love talking to

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Speaker 1: Tom on these jobs days. Uh, Tom is you know, Matt,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking to Tom for a long time.

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Speaker 1: He's been, you know, pretty consistently bullish on the whole

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Speaker 1: labor situation in his country, you know, really confident that

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Speaker 1: jobs would come back as uh, you know, the vaccines

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Speaker 1: get into the marketplace. I think it's pretty fascinating the

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Speaker 1: point he made about travel, Paul, you know, be big companies,

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Speaker 1: not only are the bean counters saying, look, we made

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Speaker 1: so much money cutting back travel, let's keep it. Let's

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Speaker 1: keep it down. But you've got big HR offices also

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Speaker 1: who are saying not yet, let's let's wait a couple

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Speaker 1: more weeks, a couple more months because they don't want

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Speaker 1: their employees getting infected. That's when the small businesses are

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Speaker 1: going to be able to get a leg up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good that's a good point. So,

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Speaker 1: but light at the end of the tunnel, as we

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Speaker 1: like to say. I am here in Berlin. Germany has

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Speaker 1: said it's loosening the lockdown, but you really can't do

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Speaker 1: anything except for go to the barber, which is no

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Speaker 1: use to me, and uh and go to the flower shop.

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Speaker 1: It's weird, isn't it that those are the two things

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Speaker 1: they open. Hopefully by the end of the month they'll

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Speaker 1: start opening my favorite stores and restaurants in the US

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Speaker 1: many states are doing that. But is it a good idea?

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Speaker 1: Let's bring in Lauren sour right now from Johns Hopkins University,

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Speaker 1: where she is an associate professor of emergency Medicine in Lauren, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: now joining Texas and Mississippi in reopening the state lifting restrictions.

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Speaker 1: Is it too soon? I mean Germany is like nowhere

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Speaker 1: near that. Yeah. I mean my personal opinion, and I

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Speaker 1: think the opinion of many of my colleagues is it

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Speaker 1: is a bit too soon. It sort of feels like

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Speaker 1: we've put in all this hard work we've done on

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Speaker 1: all of this staying home and wearing the masks and

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Speaker 1: and participating in all these restrictions. That have been challenging

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Speaker 1: for everyone, and we're watching all of that hard work

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Speaker 1: potentially crumble. Um, just because of a few weeks of

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Speaker 1: good numbers. You know, we have a little bit more

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Speaker 1: of a ways to go, and I think we were

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Speaker 1: all sort of hoping that we would see these states

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Speaker 1: maintained for just a bit longer. Lauren, give us a

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Speaker 1: sense of how things are on the ground. Um. We

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Speaker 1: know the headline numbers generally are are trending very much

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Speaker 1: in the right direction in terms of vaccinations and so on.

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Speaker 1: But at the Johns Hopkins University Hospital in Baltimore, how

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Speaker 1: are things going. Yeah, the numbers are definitely looking better.

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Speaker 1: It's still you know, everything has to be in contact, right,

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Speaker 1: So you still have to remember that while the numbers

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Speaker 1: look good and they're going down, it's still from a

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Speaker 1: very high place, right. So, Um, we had some of

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Speaker 1: the highest numbers UM so far in the pandemic just

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Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, and so that downward trend

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Speaker 1: is great to see, UM, But our hospitals are still stressed.

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Speaker 1: We're still seeing patients with covid UM. We have seen

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Speaker 1: a couple of reinfections, and I think all eyes are

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Speaker 1: on what happens over the next few weeks to a

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Speaker 1: month when as vaccine you know, sort of trickles through

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Speaker 1: through the state. I mean, the US is crushing it

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Speaker 1: in terms of vaccines. You guys are up to like

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Speaker 1: almost two million vaccines a day, right and here in Germany,

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Speaker 1: which is the largest economy in Europe by the way,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what's going on. Very good at

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Speaker 1: building cars and stuff. They've vaccinated like forty eight people

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00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: in the past couple of weeks. Um, what is the

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00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: US done right in that sense? Lauren? I think one

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00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: of the things that has been done right in in

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00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: distribution of vaccine is UM really a push to make

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00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: decisions to get vaccine into people's arms. So the second

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00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: we get hands on vaccine, UM, we push it through

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00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: these systems. It has been challenging because those systems are disconnected. UM.

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00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: They felt sluggish at first, but we leveraged global national

437
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: level infrastructure to really put vaccine into the hands of

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00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: local vaccinators and that's huge. So the next steps are

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00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: improving access to those hard to reach communities UM, which

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00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: many would argue, myself included that should have been done

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00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: up front. But we have a lot more work to

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00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: do UM to make sure that people who can't you know,

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00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: simply drive up to their hospital, wait in line or

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00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: wait on the computer to get that to get that appointment,

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00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: UM and walk in and get it safely. UM still

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00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: have access. So if they don't have technology access that

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00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: they don't have someone who can transport them to get vaccine.

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00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: All those things or where we really need to focus

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00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: right now. But you're right where we're doing. We're putting

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00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: a lot of vaccine into a lot of people right now.

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00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: If I want to point out, if Germany were nearly

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00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: as efficient um and smart about this as the US,

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00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: if Germany was vaccinating at the same rate as you,

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00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: we'd be done. We would have vaccinated every single man

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00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: and woman over the age of what fifteen. I don't

456
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: know if they're vaccinating kids anywhere, but all of us

457
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: would be finished if we had done in the US way. Yeah,

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00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's just hopefully you guys can get the

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00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: momentum there, Matt. But Lauren, you know, one of the

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00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: concerns that we all had and we still have obviously,

461
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: is the folks that just don't get vaccinations. They don't

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00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: trust vaccinations in general, and maybe in particular, or they

463
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: don't trust this COVID vaccination for a variety of reasons.

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00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: Are you having those conversations with those people and how

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00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: are they going? Yeah? Absolutely, I think a lot of

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00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: work is being done right now to improve UM that

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00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: vaccine conversation, particularly in vaccine hesitant group, and a lot

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00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: of that means working with community members, working with both

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00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: from vaccine hesitant communities who UM really can tell the

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00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: story to the vaccine distribution planners and the the access

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00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: personnel about why there is this hesitancy. And I think

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00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: that hesitancy gets sort of convoluted when you additionally add

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00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: access issues, and so those have to be addressed in

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00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: tandem UM making sure that communities that have high levels

475
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: of hesitancy don't have high levels of inaccessibility UM so

476
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: that as people come on board to getting vaccine and

477
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: they make their decision Okay, I'm gonna go get this vaccine,

478
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: they should then be able to get the vaccine. And

479
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: that is a huge piece of the puzzle, because if

480
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: you have them for a moment to get vaccine, they

481
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: may change their mind if it's just too hard. By

482
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: the way I've been I've spent the last year collecting masks.

483
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: I've got Ducati masks, BMW masks, I've got Grateful Dead masks.

484
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: Am I gonna be able to keep using these? Or

485
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: are we going to be done pretty soon? I think

486
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: we're going to see masks in various degrees of use

487
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: for quite some time to come. I mean, I think

488
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: as we're seeing already in the US MAX that mask

489
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: mandates are being um taken away, But that doesn't mean

490
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: you can't use them. And so in circumstances where people

491
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: may you may feel less safe as an individual, or

492
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: you may be going to a place where you feel

493
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: more vulnerable, UM, we can You'll be able to use

494
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: those master as long as you want. UM. But I

495
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: do think there will be a reduction of mask usage

496
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: as we get more people vaccinated. Hey, Lauren, thank you

497
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: so much. We always appreciate this weekly check in helping

498
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: us stay as smart as we can on this topic.

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00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: Laurence Sour, Social Professor of Emergency Medicine at the John's

500
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: Hopkins School of Medicine, I should not that the Bloomberg

501
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: School of Public Health support about michaelare Bloomberg's now or

502
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: Bloomberg LP of Blooberg to lamp. Thanks for listening to

503
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

504
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: interviews of Apple podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

505
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three.

506
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: Put on false wwhiney. I'm on Twitter at at Sweeney

507
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 1: Before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at

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00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio