WEBVTT - Legally Brunette: The Murder of Jennifer Dulos 

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, guys, Welcome to a new episode of Legally Brunettes.

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<v Speaker 1>I will be your host Emily Simpson with my co

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<v Speaker 1>host Shane Shane. Okay, first of all, before we get

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<v Speaker 1>into the case we're going to talk about today, which

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<v Speaker 1>is the Jennifer Dulo's case, we have to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>Kim Kardashian not passing the bar exam. I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>it was it just happened. She made a statement. So

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<v Speaker 1>Kim Kardashian has revealed the result of her recent bar

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<v Speaker 1>exam as the reality TV star continues to pursue a

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<v Speaker 1>career in law. First of all, I have to say,

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<v Speaker 1>let me ask you your opinion, because you did take

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<v Speaker 1>the bar exam multiple times under the scrutiny, and first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, you had to take it up this same scrutiny,

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<v Speaker 1>not the same scrutiny, A low level of scrutiny. It

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<v Speaker 1>was the Bravo TV community scrutiny. She's taking it. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's a how many followers does she have on Instagram?

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<v Speaker 1>Like three hundred million or something, right, I mean that's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of eyes on her. So what do you think, like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is that? What do you think to go to

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<v Speaker 1>have to take something at that big and then the

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<v Speaker 1>whole world knows about it. You have no opinion, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sucks for her, okay, but but you got

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<v Speaker 2>to think about it. She's worth nearly two billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>She's got a skims company, which is huge. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>that's very time consuming. As much as she wanted wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be all the public appearances. How many kids does

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<v Speaker 2>she have? I think for yeah, and then she has

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<v Speaker 2>to deal with Kanye right, so she's got a lot

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<v Speaker 2>and a reality show. Oh and she's she's playing a

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<v Speaker 2>bad actress on it the Lawyer movie you watch or

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<v Speaker 2>show you watch? Yes, also, so she's got a lot

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<v Speaker 2>going on. It's amazing that she even wants to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know why she wants to do this.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't either, But but like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>she's worth two billion dollars. But you have to give

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<v Speaker 1>her credit for wanting to do it and saying that

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<v Speaker 1>she's going to do it again. I know it takes

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<v Speaker 1>a lot, I know, of guts to publicly put yourself

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<v Speaker 1>out there.

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<v Speaker 2>To say comments of people making Joe set her expense

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<v Speaker 2>or criticizing her, But it didn't stop her so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>good for her.

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<v Speaker 1>So Kim wrote via her Instagram stories on Saturday, November eighth, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a lawyer yet. I just play a very

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<v Speaker 1>well dressed one on TV. Six years into this law

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<v Speaker 1>journey and I'm still all in until I pass the bar.

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<v Speaker 1>No shortcuts, no giving up, just more studying and even

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<v Speaker 1>more determination. Thank you to everyone who has supported and

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<v Speaker 1>encouraged me along the way. Falling short isn't a failure,

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<v Speaker 1>it's fuel. I was so close to passing the exam

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<v Speaker 1>that only motivates me even more. Let's go. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>think she was close?

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<v Speaker 2>Who knows? The scores don't come out that early. She

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<v Speaker 2>posted it before scores came out.

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<v Speaker 1>When did the scores come out?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think they come out to like Monday or

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, like the week after, or they get

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<v Speaker 2>mailed to you, I think, Or I don't know, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't remember the scores coming out. It's just pass

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<v Speaker 2>or fail. On the friday that you check the results,

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<v Speaker 2>you punch in your number. It either says you're there

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<v Speaker 2>or says your name cannot be found. It doesn't give

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<v Speaker 2>you results. So I don't know how she knew that.

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<v Speaker 1>Unless she had some she's like special insider.

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<v Speaker 2>She cheated, but apparently not good enough. Maybe.

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<v Speaker 1>No, there was no way you can't cheat on the

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<v Speaker 1>can of bar exam. There's no way possible.

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<v Speaker 2>But the only person that took a private jet to

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<v Speaker 2>take the California.

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<v Speaker 1>Bar or a private helicopter, she just landed on a

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<v Speaker 1>helipad and then went in the back door.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean they obviously she took the baby bar too.

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<v Speaker 2>She had to take that a couple of times and

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't stop. Yeah, so the baby bar is when

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<v Speaker 2>you go to a non licensed school or what she did,

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<v Speaker 2>which was some mentoring program to take the baby bar

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<v Speaker 2>a year into it as a couple of subjects, and

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<v Speaker 2>she took that a couple of times and she passed it.

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<v Speaker 2>So she didn't quit on that one. Yeah, and I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thought she would have.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's just talk for a second about her new HULO show.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called all Hulu. I said, who said Hulo, not

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<v Speaker 1>Hulo Hulu Hulu show it's called All's Fair. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>the term all All's fair is taken from the what

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<v Speaker 1>is the line All's fair? In love and war?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? So yes?

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<v Speaker 1>I started watching it and it was so bad and

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<v Speaker 1>so campy. But I do have to admit that not

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<v Speaker 1>only I watched the whole thing, there were three episodes

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<v Speaker 1>that were released, and I watched all three. I think

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<v Speaker 1>I stayed up till three o'clock in the morning watching

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<v Speaker 1>all three episodes. So the acting, her acting, it's just there.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no acting, it's just her, Like how she is

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<v Speaker 1>in a reality show is just basically like how she

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<v Speaker 1>is on this scripted television show. Also, her outfits. There

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<v Speaker 1>is an outfit where she actually has a thong coming

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<v Speaker 1>out the back of her suit and you can see

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<v Speaker 1>the thong, and I'm like, what lawyer dresses like that?

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<v Speaker 1>It reminds me of Sex in the City. The second

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<v Speaker 1>movie where I feel like they just they threw out

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<v Speaker 1>the script. They were like, they were like, we don't

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<v Speaker 1>need content or good or good writing. We just will

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<v Speaker 1>wear fabulous outfits and go to the Middle East. And

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's kind of what they did with

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<v Speaker 1>All's Fair. They were like, all we need is Kim

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<v Speaker 1>Kardashi and some fabulous outfits and a ridiculous private jet

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<v Speaker 1>that looks like the inside of a of a Vegas hotel,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's all we need to make good TV.

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<v Speaker 2>And so and and you and here you.

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<v Speaker 1>Are and I watch it. I did all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Lastly, Yeah, I'm kind of secretly glad she didn't pass

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<v Speaker 2>because if she passed, everyone would be like.

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<v Speaker 1>What making fun of you? Yeah, they'd be like, Shane,

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<v Speaker 1>Shane couldn't pass it. But Kim Kardashian pass exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you, Kim.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Shane feels better because of that. Well, we wish

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<v Speaker 1>Kim Kardashian luck. I hope she does eventually pass it.

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<v Speaker 2>I do, yeah, and then I'll be submitting my job application.

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<v Speaker 2>You're gonna work for her? What are you gonna do?

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<v Speaker 2>Whatever she wants?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness. Okay, let's move on to the Jennifer

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<v Speaker 1>Doulos case. Jennifer. First of all, let me say I

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<v Speaker 1>have watched multiple things on this case. I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>something on Hulu. There's also been twenty twenties datelines, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what it is, but this is one

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<v Speaker 1>of those cases. I watch a lot of true crime,

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<v Speaker 1>but I will tell you this is one of those

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<v Speaker 1>cases that just always stuck in my mind. I would

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<v Speaker 1>just always think of it. I kind of I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know why. Jennifer Dulos is just always It just always

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<v Speaker 1>stayed with it.

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<v Speaker 2>So you've you've known about this case for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have. I've known about it for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>I've watched things on it. I've watched a couple different

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<v Speaker 1>documentary type of shows on it, and I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>it just always stayed with me. So I'm I'm so,

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<v Speaker 1>let's go into it.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Farbar Dulos was a fifty year old mother of

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<v Speaker 1>five from New Canaan, Connecticut. She vanished on May twenty fourth,

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty nineteen after dropping her children off at school.

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer was reported missing after she failed to show up

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<v Speaker 1>to several appointments and no one hadn't been able to

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<v Speaker 1>reach her for about ten hours. When officers checked Jennifer's home,

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<v Speaker 1>they found what appeared to be bloodstains on the floor

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<v Speaker 1>in the garage and on a vehicle parked inside. Police

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<v Speaker 1>would later find Jennifer's SUV located three miles away, but

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<v Speaker 1>there was no sign of her. During the investigation, police

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<v Speaker 1>obtained surveillance footage that showed her a strange husband photos Dulos,

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<v Speaker 1>who is Greek, and his mistress, Michelle Trecanis in and

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<v Speaker 1>around Hartford, Connecticut. The night of Jennifer's disappearance, they made

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<v Speaker 1>multiple stops dumping garbage bags into various bins throughout the city.

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<v Speaker 1>Police recovered these bags and found bloody clothing, cleaning supplies,

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<v Speaker 1>and sponges containing Jennifer's DNA. Her disappearance quickly became one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most high profile criminal cases in Connecticut, centering

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<v Speaker 1>around a bitter divorce and a bitter custody battle with

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<v Speaker 1>the children. Maybe it stuck with me because I think

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<v Speaker 1>when you start digging into the case and you watch it,

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<v Speaker 1>it shows, you know, all this aerial footage of her

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<v Speaker 1>home and his home, and he was a builder or developer,

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<v Speaker 1>and these are these huge, multi million dollar, beautiful homes

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<v Speaker 1>in this East Coast area of the United States. She's like.

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<v Speaker 2>Crime, right, I mean, like who beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking like ten thousand square foot fifteen thousand square

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<v Speaker 1>foot homes on like sprawling land with five children. And

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<v Speaker 1>she's very attractive, and he's very attractive, and they're educated

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<v Speaker 1>and in their ages. Well she's fifty when she disappeared,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh she was.

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<v Speaker 2>How old were their children? Do you know? I'm the

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<v Speaker 2>two daughters, right, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there's five kids altogether five. Okay, that's all right,

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<v Speaker 1>let's just talk about a little bit about who Jennifer

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<v Speaker 1>Doulos is. And May of twenty twenty five, a book

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<v Speaker 1>titled Murder in the Dollhouse The Jennifer Dulos Story was

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<v Speaker 1>written by Richard Cohen, a prolific journalist and author of

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<v Speaker 1>fourteen books. Cohen sketches the origin story of Jennifer Farber Dulos,

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<v Speaker 1>who is the niece of Liz Claiborne, an American fashion

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<v Speaker 1>designer and businesswoman, and the beloved daughter of a wealthy financier.

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<v Speaker 1>Before becoming a mother of five, Jennifer worked as a

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<v Speaker 1>playwright in New York City. Cohen pointed to her dream

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<v Speaker 1>of creating a life sized dollhouse for the inspiration behind

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<v Speaker 1>the title of his book. She had obsession with dollhouses

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<v Speaker 1>when she was a little girl, Cohen said, she had

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<v Speaker 1>this idea of creating a real dollhouse and building this

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<v Speaker 1>fantasy for real. In fact, that decor of her first

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<v Speaker 1>adult apartment had included an empty baby crib, so when

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<v Speaker 1>she was still unattached at thirty five, she began to panic.

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<v Speaker 1>At the time of her disappearance, Jennifer believed in curating

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<v Speaker 1>a dream domestic life, a dream that Colin believes she

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<v Speaker 1>was struggling with giving up. I think that's another reason

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<v Speaker 1>why she ended up in this bad marriage. I think

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<v Speaker 1>she had this idyllic idea of what she wanted her

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<v Speaker 1>life to be. And he was this good looking guy,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was Greek, and he was this builder and developer,

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<v Speaker 1>and they built this big, huge, beautiful home. And she

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<v Speaker 1>had this fantasy with dollhouses and creating this perfect image.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think in the back of her mind she

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<v Speaker 1>probably knew that.

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<v Speaker 2>This was a What was the falling out of the

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<v Speaker 2>marriage for.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think he was controlling and violent throughout the marriage,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I think she just continued to ignore or

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<v Speaker 1>hope that he changed or you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, so was this It was just budding heads And

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it wasn't like there was an affair or

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<v Speaker 2>something shady or why don't he wasn't like being lost or.

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<v Speaker 1>Well he kept borrowing money from her parents. She had

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<v Speaker 1>wealthy parents. I believe her dad was a bank owned

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<v Speaker 1>a bank.

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<v Speaker 2>Was he was he No, he was Greek.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe he got that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe he was an emigrant that came to the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, and that he married her. He married into

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<v Speaker 1>a wealthy family, and I think he had a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ambition and he wanted to make a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe he borrowed a lot of money from her

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<v Speaker 1>father or her family.

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<v Speaker 2>But was he his business like viable like he was no.

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<v Speaker 1>From what I understood in these and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these documentaries, I watched that he was losing money. He

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<v Speaker 1>was a developer and he kept building these. He played

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<v Speaker 1>the role of a big developer, but he kept having

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<v Speaker 1>to borrow money from her family to pay debts, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think he was always in debt, and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if he was actually making money. She was the

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<v Speaker 1>one though, Oh.

0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.600
<v Speaker 2>So then yeah, okay, So then you have a divorce here,

0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.160
<v Speaker 2>and then she's going to still be okay financially, right

0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.000
<v Speaker 2>at least based on what you just said. Then he's

0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.640
<v Speaker 2>going to be screwed and he's probably gonna lose his

0:10:57.720 --> 0:10:58.720
<v Speaker 2>job in business.

0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:00.640
<v Speaker 1>So two thousand and three to two two thousand and four,

0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Farber and Photos Dulos relationship begins. So in the

0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.679
<v Speaker 1>December of two thousand and three, Jennifer runs into photos Dulos,

0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.079
<v Speaker 1>who is currently married at an Aspen Airport. Jennifer and

0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Photos had attended Brown at the same time, but never

0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:17.320
<v Speaker 1>had a relationship. Photos emails Jennifer tests, are you there,

0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:22.000
<v Speaker 1>that's very romantic? M hm. In March of two thousand

0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.440
<v Speaker 1>and four, photos Dulos files for divorce from his first wife.

0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.280
<v Speaker 1>He officially signs the divorce papers in July of four,

0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.720
<v Speaker 1>and then in August of four, less than one month later,

0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Photos Dulos marries Jennifer Farber and they end up having

0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.280
<v Speaker 1>five children together, two sets of twins and one son.

0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.199
<v Speaker 1>Then we get to twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. This

0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.800
<v Speaker 1>is the marital breakdown. This is when it really starts

0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:45.480
<v Speaker 1>to you know, you.

0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Always want to go south. The first spouse. Yeah, they're like, dang,

0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.760
<v Speaker 2>I escape that one. I'm glad that I didn't have

0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.920
<v Speaker 2>kids with that guy. I'd be dead now, right.

0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.080
<v Speaker 1>So in June of twenty seventeen, Jennifer Farber Dulos files

0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.000
<v Speaker 1>for divorce from her been, citing fear for her safety.

0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 1>She accuses him of controlling behavior, threats, and having an

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.160
<v Speaker 1>affair with Michelle Trecanus, one of his employees at his company,

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.920
<v Speaker 1>which was called Four Group. Incorporated in twenty seventeen to

0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.959
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, so this is a two year A bitter

0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.360
<v Speaker 1>custody battle unfolds. Jennifer has granted temporary sole custody of

0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 1>their five children, with photos getting limited to supervise visitation.

0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Court records show Jennifer repeatedly expressed fear that photos would

0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.200
<v Speaker 1>harm her. So clearly he's exhibiting. I mean that he's

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.480
<v Speaker 1>not only controlling, but he's viola as well. I think

0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 1>in the documentary they are. In some of the things

0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 1>that I watch, they talk about I believe he like

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.480
<v Speaker 1>drove a truck at her really like fast, like he

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.760
<v Speaker 1>was going to hit her. He like strangle or grabbed

0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 1>her by her neck. I think there was like some stalking,

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.880
<v Speaker 1>refollowder and allegations like that. And they have five children,

0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:01.319
<v Speaker 1>so clearly in regards to money and child support, he

0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.439
<v Speaker 1>wants the kids as much as possible. Correct.

0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And probably because he's worried, fear full

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.360
<v Speaker 2>for his business. If her parents, if his in laws

0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 2>are actually helping on the business side, they might pull

0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.280
<v Speaker 2>from that. I was just looking up she was fifty seven.

0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, no, she'd be fifty seven now. She was fifty

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 1>she was fifty in twenty nineteen. Met okay, so tell

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 1>me the ages of the kids when she around the

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:27.400
<v Speaker 1>time that she has the.

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Time of her disappearance, which we know it was the death.

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 2>She had five kids, he said, two sets of twins

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 2>and at Singleton and all between the ages of eight

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.240
<v Speaker 2>and thirteen. So they lost their mother at the age

0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 2>of between eight and thirteen and then their father going

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 2>to jail.

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.520
<v Speaker 1>So in twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen we were talked

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>about a bitter custody battle unfolds, and the custody battle

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.120
<v Speaker 1>obviously he wants as much custody as possible because he

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.360
<v Speaker 1>wants her to pay child sport. I would assume she's

0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 1>the one that's financially secure. She's the one that has

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 1>the wealthy parent. She's the one you know that's going

0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to be fine.

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 2>He's got the upper hand in that area of finance

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:07.000
<v Speaker 2>and playment.

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 1>But she's clearly been able to prove to a court

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 1>that he is violent because he has supervised visitations, which

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure has just pushed him to Oh, I mean.

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he probably well deserved, but man, that has

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>got to be really a blow to the ego.

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Right, So I would say, as a man and having

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.840
<v Speaker 1>five children and wanting as much custody as possible because

0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 1>you want as much child support as possible, or he

0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 1>doesn't and then to have to have supervised visits, or.

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Just he's he's a madman and he does rather killer

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.760
<v Speaker 2>than deal with anything at all, because clearly when they

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 2>were married he tried to run her over with a

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 2>truck or whatever.

0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 1>So Thursday May twenty third, twenty nineteen, Jennifer attends a

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.520
<v Speaker 1>school event with her children in New Canaan. She exchanges

0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 1>texts and emails with friends that evening and everything seems

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.520
<v Speaker 1>normal and she's making plans for the weekend. On Friday,

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.560
<v Speaker 1>May twenty fourth, tw nineteen, this is the last day

0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>that Jennifer's ever seen alive. Eight am Jennifer drops her

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.120
<v Speaker 1>children off at New Canaan Country School. At eight oh

0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 1>five am, Jennifer returns to her rented home at sixty

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.800
<v Speaker 1>nine Wells Lane. At ten twenty five am, Jennifer misses

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 1>her children's orthodontia's appointments, which is uncharacteristic for her. You know,

0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:22.920
<v Speaker 1>she has a nanny that takes care of the kids

0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 1>as well, and the nanny was also very frightened of

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>the potus. Do you have photus?

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>And then nanny is the one who repeatedly tries to

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 1>get a hold of her, and she's not answering her phone,

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 1>which she said has never ever happened, that she's never

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.400
<v Speaker 1>not been able to get a hold of her. And

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 1>also she doesn't show up at the Orthodonna's appointment to

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 1>meet her with the children. Then the nanny knows immediately

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 1>that she.

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Had an appointment that day, the day of her disappearance.

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just said that, Yeah, yeah, it was the

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.320
<v Speaker 1>same day. It was the same day she had, well

0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>it was the children had Ordonna's appointment.

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but she dropped him off at school in the morning.

0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 1>She dropped him off at school in the morning, and

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 1>then the nanny had them later in the day, and

0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 1>then the nanny was taking them to an orthodonots But

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:03.560
<v Speaker 1>where she was meeting up with.

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.600
<v Speaker 2>The nanny after school? Okay, confused, I thought was during school.

0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.600
<v Speaker 1>So the nanny gets worried and calls the police to

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 1>report Jennifer missing. This is around eleven AM. At seven pm,

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>police locate Jennifer's black Chevy Suburban abandoned on Lapham Road

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 1>near Waveney Park. Inside her home, detectives find blood splatter

0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>and evidence of an attempted cleanup, later confirmed as Jennifer's blood.

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 1>So when they go back and they search her house,

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I remember that the nanny said that she had just

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 1>she remembered that she had just opened a brand new

0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.320
<v Speaker 1>role of like those paper towels from Costco where you.

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Have multiple rolls of multi pack.

0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Multi pack, right, and she had put them in the cabinet.

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.160
<v Speaker 1>And then later that day when the police were searching,

0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 1>there was only like two rolls left, which meant he,

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 1>what are there like twelve rolls in there or something?

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't, oh yeah, So that means eight six

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>were missing, right.

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 1>So someone had gone through multiple rolls of paper towels

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 1>within that short period of time. So that evening surveillance

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.719
<v Speaker 1>cameras capture photos Dulos and his girlfriend Michelle trecanis driving

0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.440
<v Speaker 1>a Ford Raptor pickup truck through Hertford. They are seen

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 1>making over thirty stops, thirty stops, thirty.

0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Stops at like different locations each time.

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, disposing of garbage bags along Albany Avenue.

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Almost dumber because now there's thirty locations where that DNA

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.880
<v Speaker 2>is spread around, right, And I don't know thirty opportunities

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.160
<v Speaker 2>to have you on camera or witnesses.

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand how you wouldn't think that there would

0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.880
<v Speaker 1>be some type of surveillance camera that would pick that up.

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 1>This is in twenty nineteen, it's not like we're talking

0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.440
<v Speaker 1>about the eighties or nineties before, you know. I mean,

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 1>we're talking.

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Digital footprint everywhere, right.

0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.160
<v Speaker 1>And he has a cell phone, which is like, you know,

0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:57.600
<v Speaker 1>putting him in all these da.

0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 2>I always say, and it's hard to have him, but

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.159
<v Speaker 2>people wouldn't commit crimes and think they were going to

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 2>get away with it. So he didn't kill her and

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 2>then not know how to get and then worry he

0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to get away with it. He knew he

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 2>planned this, Right, we're going to get into it, but

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:11.879
<v Speaker 2>he planned it.

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Wasn't like it was the moment, right, It wasn't like

0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:15.400
<v Speaker 1>they got in a fight.

0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.679
<v Speaker 2>So he plans it, And if he planned it, that

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 2>means he thought this plan was full proof.

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>That's when you're a narcissist.

0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, clearly, what do you want to say? He's

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.959
<v Speaker 2>a killer? And you're yeah, that's we got a bigger problem.

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 2>He's a murderer.

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 1>You're saying, killer goes first. At the end.

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Of the day, he killed someone, so who cares what

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:37.880
<v Speaker 2>the diagnosis.

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>But I'm saying the part of where you you just

0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:42.480
<v Speaker 1>honestly believe that you're selling.

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Don't like the word narcissist.

0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I know what I'm saying.

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.399
<v Speaker 2>You'll call me a narcissist, and then you call this

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.200
<v Speaker 2>murder narcissist. So I'm in the same category as potus.

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.399
<v Speaker 1>No, you're not. I'm saying he's a narcissist killer, but

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying the reason that he thinks he's going to

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.840
<v Speaker 1>get away with it is because he finds himself to

0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.880
<v Speaker 1>be so much more legent and better than everyone else,

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 1>which is a trade of narcissism. That that's what leads

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.719
<v Speaker 1>them to do it, because he doesn't he can't fathom

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.160
<v Speaker 1>the idea that he would get caught.

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.679
<v Speaker 2>Right That, okay, was a long way of saying what

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I just said.

0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So June through December of twenty nineteen, arrests and

0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.280
<v Speaker 1>evidence start building. So in June first of twenty nineteen,

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.919
<v Speaker 1>Photus Dulos and Michelle Trecanas are arrested and charged with

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.879
<v Speaker 1>tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution. Both were held on

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 1>a five hundred thousand dollars bond. The arrest came after

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:37.639
<v Speaker 1>investigators descended onto two locations connected to photos and his company.

0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:38.000
<v Speaker 2>The four Group.

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 1>According to the arrests warrant, there were several blood saints

0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 1>found on the garage floor in Jennifer's home, and that

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.240
<v Speaker 1>blood was found in Potus's garage when officials looked as well.

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 1>The warrant had said that Photus's phone had pinged him

0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 1>traveling back and forth between two properties he owns in

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Farmington throughout the day on May twenty fourth. You know, also,

0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.320
<v Speaker 1>I believe what happened. I think he had a very

0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.480
<v Speaker 1>elaborate plan. He ended up like riding a bicycle.

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:09.119
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, he well, partly true. Yeah, he borrowed a

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:10.680
<v Speaker 2>truck right from.

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.800
<v Speaker 1>One employee, sang right from an employee.

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.320
<v Speaker 2>And he drove it there at her house. So, because

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 2>that was when I was reading up on this, I realized, like,

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>why is he doing that? But then she's not living,

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.359
<v Speaker 2>they're not living together day right, he lives, So he

0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.399
<v Speaker 2>parked his car in front of her house, she'd know,

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 2>and he's violent and whatever. So he borrowed a truck,

0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:31.040
<v Speaker 2>parked wait for her, waited for her. She comes, he

0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 2>does whatever, you'll discuss it. Then when he goes, and

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.400
<v Speaker 2>then he uses her vehicle to to place what three

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 2>miles away from the house or whatever, as a distraction.

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Then he there's cameras of her car being driven at

0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.840
<v Speaker 2>ten twenty five am, but she's not driving it. He is.

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Then there's I think there's cameras of him riding a

0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.760
<v Speaker 2>bicycle back to the house and getting in the employees

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 2>truck and leaving.

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Where did he park the employee's truck though, somewhere.

0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Hidden, like across the street or something. That didn't say,

0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.520
<v Speaker 2>but the idea was it was an unrecognizable truck. So

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.240
<v Speaker 2>then when she came home from taking kids to school,

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 2>he knew he knew the kids' schedule, right, so he

0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 2>knew when she was going to be home. So she

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:10.400
<v Speaker 2>comes home.

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.000
<v Speaker 1>And he's hiding in the garage. Yeah, and then waiting

0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:14.160
<v Speaker 1>he's lying in wait.

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, exactly right. Yeah, he's a psycho, oh sorry, narcissist.

0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 1>And psycho yeah, and murder yeah. So June eleven, twenty nineteen,

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Photus and traconas that's a girlfriend. Are released on bond

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.240
<v Speaker 1>in September of twenty nineteen.

0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Six million dollars bond. By the way, So I don't

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 2>know where.

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.040
<v Speaker 1>He got that money, probably because he has properties. I

0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know if he put it up for collateral or something. Yes,

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.879
<v Speaker 1>Photos is taken into custody once more, and the arrest warrant.

0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 1>State Police said that Treconis admitted back on June second

0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.480
<v Speaker 1>that she could not account for potus whereabouts on the

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.879
<v Speaker 1>morning Jennifer went missing. The warrant also stated that Photos

0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:02.400
<v Speaker 1>and Traconas were wrote alibi scripts detailing where they were,

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.320
<v Speaker 1>but Treconis reportedly later stated the details were false. At

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.360
<v Speaker 1>the time, police also believed that Photos had driven Jennifer's

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.480
<v Speaker 1>suburban with her body inside, along with items to help

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.439
<v Speaker 1>clean up the evidence. Then we get to January of

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty. Photos Dulos is charged with felony murder, kidnapping,

0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 1>and murder. He was held on a six million dollar bond.

0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 1>That's what you were talking about. It was held on

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>a six million dollar bond the second time he gets arrested.

0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's a second time. Sorry, So I just find

0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 2>that always funny. It's like innocent before proven guilty, but

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 2>you probably did it, So six million dollars because it's

0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:36.640
<v Speaker 2>going to run away.

0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, the first time he gets arrested, he's charged with

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 1>tampering with evidence.

0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Because it was just the hindering the relocations he had

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.440
<v Speaker 2>been in put moving the car, parking it far away,

0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.200
<v Speaker 2>say there's no body using up paper towels.

0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Yes, using a lot of paper towels to clean up

0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 1>a crime scene. So the first time he's arrested, it's

0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:57.919
<v Speaker 1>only with tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution. That's why

0:22:57.920 --> 0:22:59.720
<v Speaker 1>it's a six hundred thousand dollars bond, and he gets

0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.239
<v Speaker 1>on bond easily, and Traconis does too.

0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 2>The girlfriend, she was in the car when they were

0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>running around.

0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's the problem with not being able to locate

0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:08.960
<v Speaker 1>a body, which is what we talked about earlier in

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.959
<v Speaker 1>the Crystal Rogers case, Like her body's never been discovered.

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.720
<v Speaker 1>No either, So there's no body, but there was enough.

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.400
<v Speaker 2>Blood my understanding was enough blood that the expert testimony

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:21.760
<v Speaker 2>saying it was likely death. Right.

0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 1>So then later when he gets arrested for the second time,

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.080
<v Speaker 1>when he gets arrested because now they have enough evidence, right,

0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:29.480
<v Speaker 1>they've been building a case. They've been they've been interviewing

0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 1>Traconas and they're getting you know, her statements which contradictory,

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:37.800
<v Speaker 1>conflicting statements, right, And they're pulling up his his forensics

0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:40.399
<v Speaker 1>on his phone, and they have all the surveillance of

0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 1>him and the experts with the blood saying that she's

0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 1>likely to do.

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:45.760
<v Speaker 2>So how do you get involved with she was an

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.240
<v Speaker 2>employee of his? Yeah, I mean it's like, Hey, my

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>wife's leaving me because she's accusing me of beating her

0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:54.960
<v Speaker 2>up and driving her over with the truck, and you

0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 2>want to murder her with me? Yeah? Okay, No, No.

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 1>It's like I'll do the actual murder. I just need

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:02.880
<v Speaker 1>you to help me dispose of everything.

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I get passengers so we can get in the

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.439
<v Speaker 2>carpool lane. Please these thirty I got thirty places to go.

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't understand the kind of woman that

0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.160
<v Speaker 1>is so in love with someone or so in It's

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.480
<v Speaker 1>not love, it has to be infatuation. Right. He's a

0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:19.840
<v Speaker 1>good looking guy. I don't Yeah, I mean he's Yeah,

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 1>he's a good looking guy. But that's not enough for

0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:25.080
<v Speaker 1>me to commit what is I mean? It would have

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 1>to be more than just a good.

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.399
<v Speaker 2>Looking so there so there is a number.

0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.560
<v Speaker 1>There might be so when he's arrested the second time

0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:35.119
<v Speaker 1>for felony murder, kidnapping, and murder, he is held on

0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>a six million dollar bond. Michelle Traconis was arrested in

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 1>charge with conspiracy to commit murder. Kent Mawinny this is

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:45.479
<v Speaker 1>his attorney, So Kent Mwenney got it.

0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:46.679
<v Speaker 2>I gotta look this guy up.

0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:52.639
<v Speaker 1>You're yeah, Kent Mawenny is photos Doulos's attorney. It's not

0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's his defense attorney.

0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:56.160
<v Speaker 2>He's last name Mwennie.

0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 1>It's m A w h I n n e y.

0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 1>He's not his defense attorney. He's just like his attorney.

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:04.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if in real estate transactions or like

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>a friend that's an attorney.

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, let's see what kind of law he practiced.

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:09.520
<v Speaker 2>He so.

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Kent Maweney, who was a friend and lawyer for Potus,

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.520
<v Speaker 1>was also charged with conspiracy to commit murder with them

0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 1>and Mwennie's warrant. His name appeared in both Traconis's and

0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:23.880
<v Speaker 1>photuses alibis for the morning Jennifer was reported missing. Mlweni

0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:27.120
<v Speaker 1>was interviewed twice by police afterwards. So what did they think?

0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.680
<v Speaker 1>They think if they write out these alibis that are

0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.160
<v Speaker 1>that match each other, like, let's ride out alibis. That'll

0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:35.160
<v Speaker 1>be fun. It'll be like a fun date night. We'll

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.159
<v Speaker 1>go out to dinner and we'll write our matching alibis.

0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 1>And I know, let's use my friend who's a lawyer,

0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:43.840
<v Speaker 1>because that gives him credibility or gives us credibility. If

0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:46.320
<v Speaker 1>a lawyer says that he was also with us and

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 1>saw us that morning, and then what lawyer agrees to

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:54.200
<v Speaker 1>be a part of that Kent Kent First officials said

0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 1>he claimed there was no meeting scheduled between Photos and

0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:00.680
<v Speaker 1>himself on the morning of Jennifer's disappearance. In a second interview,

0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:04.000
<v Speaker 1>he reportedly stated that there was a pre arranged meeting

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.159
<v Speaker 1>with Photus, stating he arrived at Photos's home just before

0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:09.920
<v Speaker 1>eight am, where he stood for almost an hour before

0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:14.440
<v Speaker 1>leaving without seeing him. The warrant said phone record showed

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:17.199
<v Speaker 1>Mowenni had called Photus the night of May twenty fourth,

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:21.119
<v Speaker 1>when Photos was allegedly dumping bloody bags of evidence in Hartford,

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.960
<v Speaker 1>but Mowenni denied any phone contact with Photos that day. See,

0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:27.600
<v Speaker 1>that's another thing I don't understand. This guy is an attorney,

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:30.640
<v Speaker 1>and he doesn't understand that they can get the forensics

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:33.120
<v Speaker 1>off of his phone to show that he made multiple

0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:35.320
<v Speaker 1>phone calls, or where the phone calls were made from,

0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.159
<v Speaker 1>or where his cell phone is pinging.

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I bet you he passed the bar the

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 2>first time. I don't make a difference. He still be a.

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:47.439
<v Speaker 1>Crap MOWENNI had been arrested before. Well, so this is

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:52.480
<v Speaker 1>he's clearly has very high ethical standards.

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I just looked him up. He's in real estate law,

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:57.120
<v Speaker 2>in like construction law.

0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:00.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Yeah, so this guy was obviously an

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 1>attorney that Photos had used that he'd become friendly with.

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:07.359
<v Speaker 1>He's not a stand up guy. He's been arrested previously.

0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 2>And then he gets stupid. Is thought like, oh, attorney

0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:14.840
<v Speaker 2>client privilege. I just I can't say anything, So I'll

0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:16.400
<v Speaker 2>do a lot of the work and then they'll ask

0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:18.359
<v Speaker 2>me and I won't tell him anything. He's probably that

0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:19.400
<v Speaker 2>stupid and doesn't yet.

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:21.639
<v Speaker 1>But they interviewed him twice saying that contradicts himself. He

0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:23.879
<v Speaker 1>can't even keep a story straight, and he's he agrees

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 1>to be part of this alibi. So Photuses and Michelle

0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Treconis's alibi is that they had a meeting with this guy,

0:27:30.920 --> 0:27:31.680
<v Speaker 1>this real estate.

0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what people are. He's just hoping for

0:27:33.920 --> 0:27:36.399
<v Speaker 2>more business from this client. I mean, I don't know.

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:38.120
<v Speaker 2>It's one thing to take your client out to dinner

0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:40.800
<v Speaker 2>and host them somewhere. It's another thing to help him

0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:42.360
<v Speaker 2>commit murder and can cover it up.

0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 2>So.

0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:45.359
<v Speaker 1>Mawhinney had been arrested before.

0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.080
<v Speaker 2>He says, how does this Photus guy get these people

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:51.040
<v Speaker 2>so committed? He's got this girlfriend that's helping him out,

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:53.440
<v Speaker 2>this attorney that's helping him out. He is getting the

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>in laws to fund his development business.

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 1>He's smooth. He's smooth. He's a smooth character.

0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I can't even get you to make me a turkey

0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:04.080
<v Speaker 2>pot pie. I know this guy is he could sell

0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:04.560
<v Speaker 2>a book.

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so again, I've read this line like five times now.

0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Moweni had been arrested previously. He's facing an allegation of

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:17.880
<v Speaker 1>sexual assault and was charged with violating a protective order

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.119
<v Speaker 1>filed by his estranged wife. See that's what they have

0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:25.240
<v Speaker 1>in common, That's where that's it. They bond over they

0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 1>bond over the violence towards their previous spouses. She also

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:32.640
<v Speaker 1>stated that she believed that Maweni was trying to kill her.

0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh see, that's his ex wife. Sate states that also

0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 1>in Mowenie's arrest warrant, the Windsor Rod and Gun Club

0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:42.720
<v Speaker 1>was mentioned. Two members were reportedly hunting on the land

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 1>when they came across a large hole in the ground

0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:47.280
<v Speaker 1>that appeared to be hidden. One of the members described

0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:50.440
<v Speaker 1>the hole as one human grave. You know, the place was.

0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Six feet by two feet in the dimensions. Yeah, I

0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know about depth, but that was it. And it

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:58.360
<v Speaker 2>was lined with a tarp.

0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they did not find any human remains, but.

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 2>It was lined with the tarp and limestone lime juice.

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what are you talking about?

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Where is that part of the murder limestone? It's it

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>covers up I believe the decay and the smell so

0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:16.640
<v Speaker 1>that animals don't dig it up. That's why you have

0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:19.400
<v Speaker 1>to use the limestone. But they you are not a

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:22.080
<v Speaker 1>good murderer because you would be using lime juice and

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:26.240
<v Speaker 1>pride in not being a good murder That's good, all right,

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:29.360
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, this human grave that they came across it

0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 1>did not have any human remains in it, So I

0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 1>don't know if they pre dug it. And that was

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:35.760
<v Speaker 1>the plan. That was where they were going to get

0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:37.440
<v Speaker 1>rid of her body, and then something happened and they

0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:38.920
<v Speaker 1>ended up not burying her there.

0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 2>And then and then he was pinged around that area.

0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 2>He said, right, yeah, I mean it was it was

0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 2>a little And then I read that he after the disappearance,

0:29:47.280 --> 0:29:48.440
<v Speaker 2>he never went to the club.

0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Again, Lotus or the attorney.

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:53.760
<v Speaker 2>The attorney, so it's like they were there. He was there,

0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 2>he was floating around there was there a lot like

0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:57.160
<v Speaker 2>heavily and then boom vanished.

0:29:57.320 --> 0:29:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because he dug a murder hole and he doesn't

0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:00.280
<v Speaker 1>want to be a there.

0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 2>We call a murder hole a murder hole, shallow.

0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Grave, a shallow grave. So in January twenty eighth of

0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, Photus fan it might.

0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Have been for his ex wife.

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh you mean too holes?

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Was it too hold? I think so, I don't know.

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 2>That might have been for his ex wife.

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Which you're talking about photuses attorney's attorney's X wife. Yeah,

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 1>so their plant that's what they bought.

0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Maybe that was that was part two of their big plan.

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:26.440
<v Speaker 1>They were going to bury both women there.

0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or I don't know, because where is Jennifer? We

0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 2>don't know, we don't know. So clearly they had a

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:32.680
<v Speaker 2>better hiding spot for her.

0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they had the better height eating spot was

0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:38.440
<v Speaker 1>a last minute hiding spot, and they did they dumpsters.

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know they it's at least they put the

0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:42.560
<v Speaker 2>evidence in the.

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 1>They put the evidence of the murder in the dumpsters.

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:47.480
<v Speaker 1>But her body has never been located right this way.

0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:50.080
<v Speaker 2>That's because if there was thirty locations that he dumped

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.120
<v Speaker 2>stuff in, they probably didn't retrieve it in time, Like

0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:57.040
<v Speaker 2>if they find out days later that they're tracking his whereabouts,

0:30:57.400 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 2>but then they go and the dumpsters are gone by then,

0:30:59.240 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>so it's too late.

0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they found the evidence that he dumped in

0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 1>those dumpsters, not all thirty.

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:06.400
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna tell me. They went to all thirty, retrieved thirty.

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying that he could have dumped the body

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 1>in one of those dumps right.

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 2>I've thought this all along, that they didn't get to

0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:15.880
<v Speaker 2>some of the dumpsters in time, and some they did, But.

0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I feel like they would have searched the dump site

0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 1>where those dumpsters.

0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like a five square foot or square five square

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 2>mile radius.

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:27.000
<v Speaker 1>They had before I've seen please.

0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And sometimes they find you, sometimes they don't.

0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 1>All right. In January twenty eighth of twenty twenty, Photos

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 1>fails to appear in court. Police find him unconscious at

0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:39.280
<v Speaker 1>his home in Farmington after attempting to take his own

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 1>life by inhaling poisonous carbon monoxide inside his Farmington, Connecticut home.

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Photos allegedly had handwritten a suicide note, which was attained

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 1>obtained by ABC News, which he addressed to all, dear All.

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 1>It was littered with self serving statements to clear his

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.560
<v Speaker 1>entraconus his names. He said, if you are reading this,

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:05.560
<v Speaker 1>I am no more. I refuse to spend even an

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:07.880
<v Speaker 1>hour more in jail for something I had nothing to

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:10.560
<v Speaker 1>do with. He had nothing to do with it. However,

0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:18.120
<v Speaker 1>he's on video dumping bloody, bloody, bloodyel cowels and into dumpsters, and.

0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:20.560
<v Speaker 2>His DNA was mixed in some of the blood right.

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:22.960
<v Speaker 1>In thirty different locations. But the fact that this man

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:25.960
<v Speaker 1>has the audacity to write a suicide note saying here's

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 1>what I got to do with it is beyond me.

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, here's what I got out of it. He committed

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:36.200
<v Speaker 2>suicide so quickly after being charged. That makes me think

0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:39.000
<v Speaker 2>his lawyer or whatever he looked it up and thought,

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:41.440
<v Speaker 2>oh man, the evidence is against me. I'm dead. I'm

0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:44.320
<v Speaker 2>going to jail. So he killed himself. It's not like

0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.720
<v Speaker 2>he tried to fight it. He went to trial and

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:49.880
<v Speaker 2>then he was sentenced and he thought, I can't live

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 2>like this. He did it in the beginning because you

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.480
<v Speaker 2>would fight it. You would try if you truly didn't

0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:58.959
<v Speaker 2>have anything to do with it, you would try to

0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:03.000
<v Speaker 2>fight it. Wouldn't be so quick yourself.

0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, he took himself out because knew. Yeah,

0:33:04.880 --> 0:33:06.000
<v Speaker 1>because he knew he was guilty, and he knew he

0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:07.080
<v Speaker 1>was going to go to prison, he was going to

0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:08.240
<v Speaker 1>get a death penalty. I don't know if there's a

0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 1>death penalty.

0:33:08.920 --> 0:33:11.560
<v Speaker 2>And together going to come see him, you know. And

0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:14.360
<v Speaker 2>I just looked it up. There was two shallow grays

0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Doug at the gun club. Okay, so it's very interesting.

0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 1>That is too. Yeah, wow, maybe the attorney. Maybe there

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 1>was further plans for the attorney to also eliminate his wife,

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:27.040
<v Speaker 1>and that's why they said. I know, but now that

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 1>you said there were that there was definitely two shallow graves.

0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:33.400
<v Speaker 1>That makes me think limestone, limestone, not lime juice. We're

0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:37.000
<v Speaker 1>not making fajitas. It's limestone. Yeah no, But that makes

0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 1>me think that maybe that was the connection that allowed

0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 1>the two of them.

0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Spouses right, Why.

0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Would they Why would you dig a shallow grave at

0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 1>a gun club where there's a lot of people hunting

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:49.560
<v Speaker 1>and walking around.

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.840
<v Speaker 2>It might have been large property or something, or who knows,

0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 2>why would you kill your spouses? I don't know.

0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 1>I have lots of questions about that. I don't know.

0:33:57.000 --> 0:33:59.320
<v Speaker 1>So and he says, if you're reading this, I am

0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:01.760
<v Speaker 1>no more. Refuse to spend even an hour more in

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:03.720
<v Speaker 1>jail for something I had nothing to do with. I

0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:06.000
<v Speaker 1>wanted to be known that Michelle Trecanas had nothing to

0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:09.759
<v Speaker 1>do with Jennifer's disappearance, and neither did Kent. Kent wasn't

0:34:09.760 --> 0:34:12.640
<v Speaker 1>involved here. I just want everyone to know that. He

0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.760
<v Speaker 1>goes on to write, my attorney can explain what happened

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 1>with the bags out on Albany Avenue, and also ads,

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:22.120
<v Speaker 1>please let my children know that I love them. I

0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 1>would do anything to be with them, but unfortunately we

0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.600
<v Speaker 1>all have our limits. The state will not rest until

0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 1>I rot in jail. I don't know what his attorney

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 1>was going to explain he had to do with the

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:36.319
<v Speaker 1>bags and that he dumped in the thirty different locations.

0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:41.520
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know. It's bad when your attorney can't

0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:45.080
<v Speaker 2>represent you because he's also being indicted with the murder charges.

0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, he's referring to his defense attorney was Cantry.

0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:50.479
<v Speaker 2>He had to go get a defense attorney because because

0:34:50.560 --> 0:34:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Kent was also being charged.

0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, So January thirtieth of twenty twenty, this is two

0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:58.759
<v Speaker 1>days after photos is found unconscious at his home. He

0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:00.960
<v Speaker 1>does end up dying and New York hospital.

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Wait, did you mention how he committed suicide? Right?

0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:06.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he did the carbon I don't was. I don't

0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:07.840
<v Speaker 1>know if it was in the Did he do it

0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:08.760
<v Speaker 1>in the car in the garage?

0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>I understand was it was in the garage and he

0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 2>had a vacuum tube or some type of hose that

0:35:13.000 --> 0:35:16.040
<v Speaker 2>went from the exhaust to inside his car to accelerate it.

0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:18.200
<v Speaker 1>And then he sat in the car and he closed

0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:18.879
<v Speaker 1>the garage door.

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then you just go to sleep a lot.

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes you take sleeping pills or something just kind of

0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:26.560
<v Speaker 2>like pass out. Yeah, don't wake up.

0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, he had so much carbon monoxide poisoning that he

0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:30.040
<v Speaker 1>did end up dying.

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know this is ridiculous, Like, Oh, I don't

0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 2>want to go to jail for something I didn't do,

0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:35.960
<v Speaker 2>so I'm gonna kill myself. Well, what about taking care

0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:37.759
<v Speaker 2>of your kids? If you didn't do it? Like so,

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:39.600
<v Speaker 2>then what you just quit on your five kids too?

0:35:40.120 --> 0:35:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Yep, all right, So then we get to twenty twenty

0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 1>to twenty twenty three, there are legal proceedings continue because

0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:52.560
<v Speaker 1>we still have Michelle Traconis the girlfriend and Kent the attorney.

0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:55.879
<v Speaker 1>So the murder case against Photus is officially dismissed due

0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 1>to his death. However, prosecutors continue building cases against Michelle

0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Traconne and can Tom Winnie. Custody of Jennifer's five children

0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:07.479
<v Speaker 1>is permanently granted to her mother, Gloria Farber, who also

0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 1>files and wins a civil suit against Photus's estate. Twenty

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 1>twenty four, Michelle Treconas goes to trial. So in January

0:36:16.200 --> 0:36:20.040
<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty four, Michelle Tracona's trial begins in Stanford, Connecticut.

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:24.880
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution presents hundreds of exhibits, including surveillance footage, phone data,

0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:28.400
<v Speaker 1>and testimony that Traconas helped photos cover up the murder

0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:31.279
<v Speaker 1>and clean up the evidence. You know, here's the other thing.

0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you think Michelle Traconis knows where the body is?

0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Because obviously if she did, she would use that as

0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:39.520
<v Speaker 1>as leverage for a plea deal.

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, yeah, I don't know. I think the body

0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:46.040
<v Speaker 2>is divvied up. I mean, why would you go to

0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:47.880
<v Speaker 2>thirty different locations that I know? I keep going back

0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:51.000
<v Speaker 2>to that. But they chopped it up, you think, yeah,

0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:53.839
<v Speaker 2>they did drop one piece of paper towel in each

0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:54.880
<v Speaker 2>of the thirty dumpsters.

0:36:55.000 --> 0:36:57.320
<v Speaker 1>No, because I'm saying, how do you go from digging

0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:59.880
<v Speaker 1>a grave so where you're going to carry the body?

0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:01.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, change plans. I don't know.

0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Man to cut up a body. It takes a sick

0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:06.040
<v Speaker 1>individual to be able to do something like that.

0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, or to beat someone to death. It also takes

0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.640
<v Speaker 2>a sick person. Then they had to go clean the blood.

0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Then they had to go borrow a truck and he

0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:15.320
<v Speaker 2>had to ride it. I mean there was a lot,

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of forethought. Oh yeah, of thinking. Yeah,

0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:21.680
<v Speaker 2>it was opportunities for ing to say no, this is

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:23.560
<v Speaker 2>not a good idea, right, and he kept doing it

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and doing it and doing it and doing it.

0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 1>So in March first, at twenty twenty four, Michelle Traconis

0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:33.080
<v Speaker 1>has found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and two

0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:36.000
<v Speaker 1>counts of tampering with physical evidence. I don't know. I

0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:38.000
<v Speaker 1>still don't know if I. So, you think the body

0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:41.840
<v Speaker 1>parts are in the dumpsters, Well.

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:45.680
<v Speaker 2>What's your explanation for going to thirty dumpsters because dumpster diving?

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, because there was so much clean up afterwards that ye.

0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:53.839
<v Speaker 2>So you think paper towels spread all out like that way,

0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:54.279
<v Speaker 2>I don't think.

0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:55.920
<v Speaker 1>So, I don't know. But they didn't find any body

0:37:55.920 --> 0:38:00.680
<v Speaker 1>parts at all. None, well, and they found they found

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:04.040
<v Speaker 1>garbage bags of the cleanup material, but there was no

0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:09.520
<v Speaker 1>actual body parts. I'm saying the fact that they found zero,

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:11.520
<v Speaker 1>to me, means that I think he disposed of the

0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:14.120
<v Speaker 1>body somewhere else and then went to thirty locations to

0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:17.160
<v Speaker 1>try to throw off police or whatever the rasoning was

0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:17.440
<v Speaker 1>for that.

0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:20.239
<v Speaker 2>So either way, we know she's dead, we know he

0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:25.839
<v Speaker 2>likely did it obviously, So I don't know. They don't

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:28.640
<v Speaker 2>think that she was there, Michelle was there. No, she

0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:32.239
<v Speaker 2>was after the fact. Yeah, that's why she gave conflicting statements,

0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:34.319
<v Speaker 2>and she was trying to cover up because I think

0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:36.719
<v Speaker 2>at one point she said she was she vouched as

0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:39.640
<v Speaker 2>an alibi for him. Well, changed the story.

0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:43.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, they had their alibis worked out, and then Kent

0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:45.320
<v Speaker 1>because they both were claiming that they had a meeting

0:38:45.360 --> 0:38:46.560
<v Speaker 1>with the attorney.

0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Kent. Yeah, you're right. It's not a good idea when

0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:51.839
<v Speaker 2>your alibi is your co conspirator. Right.

0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:55.239
<v Speaker 1>So, in May thirty, twenty twenty four, Michelle traconis a

0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:57.680
<v Speaker 1>sentenced to fourteen and a half years in prison.

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Then we get to June, sentenced to twenty and she

0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:06.080
<v Speaker 2>can not eligible to be released until fourteen and a

0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:09.399
<v Speaker 2>half years. So she was said, So she's gone for

0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:11.400
<v Speaker 2>nearly fifteen years, right.

0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:15.279
<v Speaker 1>Again, not. My question is she must not know what

0:39:15.440 --> 0:39:17.359
<v Speaker 1>happened to the body and she must not know where

0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:19.879
<v Speaker 1>it is, because if she did, and the guy's dead,

0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:21.920
<v Speaker 1>he killed himself, right, So it's not like she has

0:39:21.960 --> 0:39:23.839
<v Speaker 1>to be loyal to him or keep her mouth shut

0:39:23.880 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 1>for him anymore. That's why I'm saying, if she knew

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:28.520
<v Speaker 1>where the body was, she would have used that as

0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a bargaining tool to get a lesser shape. Did she

0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:36.239
<v Speaker 1>plead guilty, So a trial jury found her guilty. So

0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:41.760
<v Speaker 1>all right then, so now she's in jail maybe time.

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're right. So if she was gonna use the

0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:48.000
<v Speaker 2>body location as a bargaining chip, yeah, it would have

0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:50.520
<v Speaker 2>to be done prior to a trial. So yeah, I

0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:53.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying that. I feel as if she doesn't know.

0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:55.880
<v Speaker 2>What do? You make a good point? I don't have

0:39:55.880 --> 0:40:06.719
<v Speaker 2>an answer for you, but you make a good point.

0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:10.240
<v Speaker 1>So then we get to recent Actually, this just happened

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:12.680
<v Speaker 1>in June thirteenth of twenty twenty five, so this summer,

0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Kimp Maweney is sentenced. So Kimp Maweney entered an Alford plea,

0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:19.360
<v Speaker 1>that is a plea where the defendant does not admit

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:23.160
<v Speaker 1>guild but acknowledges the prosecution has enough evidence to convict him.

0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:27.200
<v Speaker 1>So he enters this plea to a lesser charge of

0:40:27.239 --> 0:40:30.319
<v Speaker 1>interfering with police. And remember he was originally charged with

0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:33.799
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy to commit murder and the disappearance and presume death

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.880
<v Speaker 1>of Jennifer. He was sentenced to eleven months in jail

0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:40.880
<v Speaker 1>time he had already effectively served, and the original conspiracy

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.640
<v Speaker 1>murder charge was dropped due to insufficient evidence to prove

0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:48.200
<v Speaker 1>it beyond a reasonable doubt. Mowenni maintains that he did

0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 1>not conspire to kill Jennifer and has stated publicly that

0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.000
<v Speaker 1>he does not know what happened to her or where

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.319
<v Speaker 1>her body is located. I did see him give an

0:40:56.320 --> 0:40:58.360
<v Speaker 1>interview or something, and he does claim that if he

0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.239
<v Speaker 1>knew where the body was, he would he would tell,

0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:04.160
<v Speaker 1>he would give it up, he would make so. I

0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 1>don't think tri Furtis.

0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Went rogue a little bit and deviated from the plan,

0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:10.800
<v Speaker 2>That's what I think, and panicked or whatnot, didn't obviously

0:41:10.800 --> 0:41:12.319
<v Speaker 2>avoid a shallow grave, and.

0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I think something happened and something got messed up or

0:41:15.520 --> 0:41:18.040
<v Speaker 1>hindered where that he wasn't able to dispose of her

0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:20.719
<v Speaker 1>body in the grave that they originally had planned to

0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:22.960
<v Speaker 1>put her in. I think he did something with the body.

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:24.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Maybe he threw it off a ravine

0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.360
<v Speaker 1>or in a river or something. I don't know, but

0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:31.279
<v Speaker 1>I would guess that Kent and Michelle don't know where

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:33.239
<v Speaker 1>the body is. Otherwise I feel as if they would

0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:36.720
<v Speaker 1>have used that in their defense. What impact did Jennifer

0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Dulos's murder have so in June of twenty twenty one,

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer's Law was signed into Connecticut law. Jennifer's Law named

0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:48.319
<v Speaker 1>in honor of Jennifer Farbar Dulos and Jennifer Magnano, which

0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:50.600
<v Speaker 1>are two Connecticut women who were killed by their husbands

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.840
<v Speaker 1>after suffering years of abuse. The law was created to

0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:57.640
<v Speaker 1>expand the legal definition of domestic violence beyond physical abuse,

0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:03.280
<v Speaker 1>recognizing that many victims experienced psychological, emotional, and financial control

0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:07.920
<v Speaker 1>long before violence turns physical. Under Jennifer's Law, Connecticut now

0:42:08.000 --> 0:42:12.200
<v Speaker 1>legally recognizes coercive control as a form of domestic abuse.

0:42:12.680 --> 0:42:16.400
<v Speaker 1>This means that behaviors such as isolation from friends or family,

0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:23.400
<v Speaker 1>monitoring communications or movements, financial control, threats, intimidation or manipulation, gaslighting,

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:27.240
<v Speaker 1>and emotional degradation can all be considered forms of domestic

0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:30.560
<v Speaker 1>violence even if no physical harm has occurred. What do

0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 1>you think about that?

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's just that's a tough one to really, those are.

0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Tough to prove, that's for sure. I mean the physical

0:42:36.239 --> 0:42:38.520
<v Speaker 1>violence obviously is like that's when you have photos or

0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:41.520
<v Speaker 1>pattern Yeah.

0:42:41.320 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 2>And exercising severe control over the person or as opposed

0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:46.839
<v Speaker 2>to just like you know, he would let me call

0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 2>my mom today.

0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Before Jennifer's Law, Connecticut's legal system typically only recognized physical

0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:57.640
<v Speaker 1>or sexual violence and domestic abuse cases. This often left victims,

0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:02.120
<v Speaker 1>especially those like Jennifer Doulo's who who express fear for

0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:06.400
<v Speaker 1>her safety during her divorce, without strong legal protections. You know,

0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 1>here's here's the problem. Also, even if it was more

0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:18.960
<v Speaker 1>recognized previously that financial control, threats, stalking, following gas lighting,

0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:23.560
<v Speaker 1>emotional abuse are considered abuse and you can get a

0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:26.160
<v Speaker 1>restraining order. It doesn't have to just be evidence of

0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:30.040
<v Speaker 1>physical abuse. The problem is that someone like Fotus, he

0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:32.399
<v Speaker 1>doesn't do you think he's going to abide by He's

0:43:32.440 --> 0:43:35.360
<v Speaker 1>not going to abide by a protective a restraining order.

0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:35.719
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:40.080
<v Speaker 1>He's a narcissist, yes, and a murderer and a psychopath.

0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:41.640
<v Speaker 2>He's not a real follower no.

0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:46.240
<v Speaker 1>So you know, being able to get a restraining order

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:50.360
<v Speaker 1>can only go so far for a female. At the

0:43:50.440 --> 0:43:53.640
<v Speaker 1>end of the day, if someone like him, a restraining order,

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:55.319
<v Speaker 1>a piece of paper is not going to keep him.

0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.000
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter if she got a restraining order because

0:43:58.000 --> 0:44:02.600
<v Speaker 1>he was psychologically you know, abusive or physically abusive. Someone

0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:05.960
<v Speaker 1>like that that planned the murder, that premeditated, that had

0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:09.480
<v Speaker 1>people involved, that through the cover of the night, borrowed

0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 1>a truck, drove to her house, laid in wait, murdered

0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:14.279
<v Speaker 1>her in the garage, cleaned it up to row a.

0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Bible somewhere, rode a bike back, dumpsters exactly.

0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:22.320
<v Speaker 1>That is not someone that's going to be deterred by

0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:26.919
<v Speaker 1>a piece of paper. The new law allows victims experiencing

0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 1>coercive control to obtain restraining orders before violence escalates, present

0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:35.560
<v Speaker 1>non physical evidence such as texts, financial records, witness statements,

0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:39.000
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, and court and receive broader protection through family

0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:43.560
<v Speaker 1>court proceedings, including custody hearings. Jennifer's law represents a major

0:44:43.600 --> 0:44:47.480
<v Speaker 1>step forward and domestic violence reform, aiming to prevent tragedies

0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:51.600
<v Speaker 1>by intervening earlier in the abuse cycle. It also inspired

0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:55.600
<v Speaker 1>other states to consider similar legislation, expanding the definition of

0:44:55.640 --> 0:45:01.239
<v Speaker 1>abuse to include psychological and financial domination domin I mean,

0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:03.319
<v Speaker 1>that's good, and I'm glad that it's been expanded, because

0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:05.839
<v Speaker 1>obviously we know that abuse comes in many forms. It's

0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:08.800
<v Speaker 1>not just physical, Like a woman can be severely abused

0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and he could never lay a hand on her. It

0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>could all be psychological. But again when it when someone's

0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:17.160
<v Speaker 1>abusive like that, and a restraining order can only do

0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:19.799
<v Speaker 1>so much. I mean maybe it deters some men, but

0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:25.440
<v Speaker 1>not someone like him. I mean, as we discussed, do

0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:27.320
<v Speaker 1>you have anything else about this case?

0:45:27.600 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, the so he posted six million dollars bond,

0:45:30.840 --> 0:45:33.759
<v Speaker 2>he did, and then he commits suicide. Yeah, so what

0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:34.640
<v Speaker 2>happens to the bond?

0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:36.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what happens to the bond goes to

0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:38.840
<v Speaker 1>the state. Oh, they get the six million dollars. It

0:45:38.880 --> 0:45:40.080
<v Speaker 1>doesn't like go to his children.

0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:44.520
<v Speaker 2>No, that sucks. Yeah, And I don't know if it's

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:48.959
<v Speaker 2>because he committed suicide, like intentionally didn't appear in court.

0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that is versus if he got a car accident,

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:56.000
<v Speaker 2>what would happen. But I think that's kind of weak

0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:58.680
<v Speaker 2>because the bond is meant to make sure you go

0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:00.640
<v Speaker 2>to court right, so you get ready back. So I

0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:03.719
<v Speaker 2>get it, he didn't go to court right, But it's

0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:06.359
<v Speaker 2>not like he's skipped it. I mean that so the

0:46:06.400 --> 0:46:09.359
<v Speaker 2>bond is not serving a purpose anymore. It's not like

0:46:09.400 --> 0:46:12.239
<v Speaker 2>he skipped town and they're gonna hold on the bond tilly,

0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:14.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, until they can get him into or it's like,

0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:16.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, he forfeited that and that's just his penalty.

0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:21.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like he's dead and there's five kids which now

0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:24.799
<v Speaker 2>live with the grandma. Yeah, you know what about them,

0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the mother's mother.

0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Jennifer Doulos's mother has the children cast.

0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Right, so if she secured them and they're in privacy,

0:46:32.080 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 2>it said, and they're not in the public eye, right.

0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:39.319
<v Speaker 1>I did read that the son made a statement or

0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:42.759
<v Speaker 1>wrote something, and this this was really he was I

0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:45.360
<v Speaker 1>don't remember his exact age around the time that his

0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:47.400
<v Speaker 1>mother was murdered, but I'm thinking it was like twelve

0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:49.560
<v Speaker 1>thirteen or something like that. That age, well at the

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:51.879
<v Speaker 1>age they were eight to thirteen, Okay, so I think

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:56.000
<v Speaker 1>he was around the thirteen age. Anyway, he wrote something.

0:46:56.040 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 1>I read that he said that during that time when

0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:03.280
<v Speaker 1>his mother disappeared and was murdered, he was not getting

0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:05.960
<v Speaker 1>along with her very well. And I think he had

0:47:05.960 --> 0:47:10.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the son because I mean, first of all,

0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:12.160
<v Speaker 1>let's look at his age. We you and I. We

0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:15.880
<v Speaker 1>have Annabelle. She's twelve almost thirteen. That's a very critical

0:47:15.920 --> 0:47:18.560
<v Speaker 1>age for kids. That's just they and then there's a

0:47:19.400 --> 0:47:20.120
<v Speaker 1>there's a divorce.

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:21.719
<v Speaker 2>The dad psychodad, the.

0:47:21.719 --> 0:47:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Dad's moved out, the mom's trying to protect the kids.

0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Kids at that age they don't understand that you're trying

0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:30.440
<v Speaker 1>to protect them. I mean, we constantly have conversations with

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Annabel that we're not limiting things or taking things away

0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:35.879
<v Speaker 1>or not allowing her to do things because we're mean

0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.120
<v Speaker 1>and we're terrible people and we want her to have

0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:41.360
<v Speaker 1>a terrible life. We're doing it because we're protecting her

0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:43.600
<v Speaker 1>and we love her and we care about her. But

0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:45.879
<v Speaker 1>that age, it's very difficult. They don't see it that way.

0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:49.960
<v Speaker 1>My point is is that he has now said that

0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:53.560
<v Speaker 1>he did not have the opportunity to ever say to

0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:56.359
<v Speaker 1>his mother. Now he realizes that all the things that

0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 1>he was that he was upset about was just her

0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:02.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to techt him, and that he was at that

0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:04.960
<v Speaker 1>teenage critical angst age where he was just upset with

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:06.400
<v Speaker 1>her and he was mad at her, and you know,

0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:10.799
<v Speaker 1>he was arguing with her. And now right he's devastated

0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:13.880
<v Speaker 1>that his last interactions with his mother before she was

0:48:13.920 --> 0:48:18.280
<v Speaker 1>taken from his life were these teenage angst interactions where

0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:20.600
<v Speaker 1>he was mad at her, he was upset with her,

0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and he can't ever get that time back. He can't

0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:25.800
<v Speaker 1>ever say what he really thinks. He can't say that,

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:27.680
<v Speaker 1>he can't say I now understand that you were trying

0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:29.680
<v Speaker 1>to protect me, that you were an amazing mom. And

0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:32.839
<v Speaker 1>that's what's so sad, is just this mom was taken

0:48:32.840 --> 0:48:34.520
<v Speaker 1>away from these five children and was.

0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:36.280
<v Speaker 2>The only hope they well, now they're with the grandma,

0:48:36.360 --> 0:48:38.680
<v Speaker 2>but prior to that, she was their hope. You know,

0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.280
<v Speaker 2>she was protecting him. He was the one that's more aggressive.

0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:45.839
<v Speaker 1>So so it was that's a sad story. Anyway, there's

0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:49.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different documentaries out there on Jennifer Dulos.

0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.200
<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to investigate it further and watch it,

0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:54.040
<v Speaker 1>I would. I think it's an interesting story. I guess

0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:56.120
<v Speaker 1>I take away from it because I'm the same age

0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:57.799
<v Speaker 1>as her and I have children, and I.

0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Just here nice though, the happy and the happy ending.

0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:05.279
<v Speaker 2>The nice note to leave it on is all five

0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:08.600
<v Speaker 2>are together. They're with the grandma. I think they moved

0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:09.479
<v Speaker 2>to a different state.

0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Did they moved down?

0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:13.239
<v Speaker 2>And they're in privacy, and so you know, they can

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:15.399
<v Speaker 2>kind of try and live forward.

0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:17.400
<v Speaker 1>That way, a normal life as much as possible.

0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:19.799
<v Speaker 2>And I hate to say this, but I mean maybe

0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:22.800
<v Speaker 2>it's better their dad's dead instead of in jail, where

0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:27.200
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of always lingering that your dad's there.

0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Is probably reaching out.

0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:31.120
<v Speaker 2>To letters or fearful that he might come out one day,

0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 2>or you know, I don't know, yeah, I mean all right.

0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:36.839
<v Speaker 1>Thanks guys for listening to Legally Brunette. We appreciate it.

0:49:36.960 --> 0:49:39.279
<v Speaker 1>And again, we are on our own feeds, so please

0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:41.080
<v Speaker 1>follow us on our own feed, make sure you leave

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:43.520
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0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:46.560
<v Speaker 1>ever have any suggestions for cases or you have feedback

0:49:46.560 --> 0:49:48.520
<v Speaker 1>on any of the cases we talk about. I love

0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:50.000
<v Speaker 1>it when you guys send me dms. I like to

0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:51.919
<v Speaker 1>read them and I like to stay engaged, so please

0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:54.040
<v Speaker 1>feel free to do that, and thanks so much for listening.

0:49:54.280 --> 0:50:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Thank you,