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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Now, we welcome our TV and radio audiences for a

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Speaker 2: conversation with one of the most respected traders on Wall Street.

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Speaker 2: Paul Tudor Jones made his name calling the Black Monday

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Speaker 2: market crash in nineteen eighty seven, shortingstocks during the largest

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Speaker 2: single day percentage drop in US history. Jones became a

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Speaker 2: gold bowl in the aftermath of the GFC and bought

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Speaker 2: bitcoin as the money printer went burr during COVID. He

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Speaker 2: also founded the Robin Hood Foundation in nineteen eighty eight

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Speaker 2: and has helped since then to raise nearly three billion

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Speaker 2: dollars to get New Yorkers permanently out of poverty. Paul

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Speaker 2: Tutor Jones, a coach, chairman and chief investment officer of

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Speaker 2: Tutor Investment, joins us now on set.

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Speaker 3: Paul's great to have you here. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk, first of all, before we get

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Speaker 2: into the markets, economics, and AI, about your philanthropic efforts

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Speaker 2: and specifically a partnership that Robinhood has with Blue Blomberg

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Speaker 2: in a contest called pick a Ticker.

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Speaker 3: You have a ten thousand.

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Speaker 2: Dollars bet essentially one long, one short. How did this

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Speaker 2: contest go and who was the winner?

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Speaker 3: Well, we did it right.

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Speaker 4: It actually starts right before our investor conference that we

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Speaker 4: hold every fall. This year we had forty participants. We

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Speaker 4: raised about four hundred thousand dollars that went, three quarters

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Speaker 4: of which went to Robinhood. It was fantastic. The winner

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Speaker 4: was Bill Ackman, a Pershing Square. He was long Fannie

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Speaker 4: May and see number two was a guy named Mark

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Speaker 4: Gallott who actually used to work for me. In three

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Speaker 4: was Stan Druckmiller. No surprise, he's going to always be placing.

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Speaker 3: They came in.

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Speaker 4: I think if you took the top three or four

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Speaker 4: and you had made their bet, you would have made

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Speaker 4: seven times your money in six months.

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Speaker 3: So it's a great competition.

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Speaker 4: I really hope this year we can expand it so

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Speaker 4: it'll be a much bigger group. It's ten thousand dollars,

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Speaker 4: it's a six month competition, one long, one short, and

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Speaker 4: uh yeah, it's it's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: Actually, shout out also to Anna Nikolsky, you got up

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Speaker 2: there on the board with.

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Speaker 4: Who's our only female entront I hope we get a

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Speaker 4: lot more ladies that'll participate this time, so.

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Speaker 2: They have another chance coming up this fall, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: since we have you here, you could help us give

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Speaker 2: us a tip.

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Speaker 3: What's the what's the one.

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Speaker 2: Long you would hit for the next contest.

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Speaker 4: I would say probably probably the yield curve. It just

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Speaker 4: depends on where I think it'll be higher at that

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Speaker 4: point in time. Mine would be very esoteric, so let

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Speaker 4: me think, uh, well, it would definitely I would definitely

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Speaker 4: be betting on substantially lower front end rates. We'll have a

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Speaker 4: we'll have a new FED chair within six months at

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Speaker 4: that point in time, and I think Trump's gonna pick

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Speaker 4: someone who's gonna be uber dubbish.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit more about the yield curve.

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Speaker 1: Matt and I were actually emailing it like four in

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Speaker 1: the morning about the yield curve because it's broken a

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Speaker 1: lot of hearts that's steepener bed, and the way you

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Speaker 1: lay it out, short end rates coming down, you have

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Speaker 1: concerns about the deficit potentially boosting the long end. It

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Speaker 1: seems like a no brainer, but it feels like it

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Speaker 1: just hasn't worked.

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Speaker 3: So what's different this time.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's working, it's just you know, it's vall adjusted

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Speaker 4: it's just a slow moving train.

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Speaker 3: But I think in the long run it has to work.

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Speaker 4: We are fiscally constrained and we're going to have budget

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Speaker 4: deficits of six percent plus.

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Speaker 3: As far as the I can see.

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Speaker 4: So one of the major offsets if I was the

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Speaker 4: president would be to lower my interest rate cost appointing

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Speaker 4: a FED chair who is as dubvish as could possibly be.

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Speaker 4: That's kind of the playbook when you're one hundred percent

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Speaker 4: debt to GDP and you're fiscally constrained.

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Speaker 3: You can see it happening in Japan right now.

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Speaker 4: He's way is reluctant to raise rates more than beyond

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Speaker 4: fifty basis points, even though they have inflation pick a

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Speaker 4: number somewhere between two and three percent. I think they

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Speaker 4: fudge the numbers down all the time. You've got wage

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Speaker 4: growth at three and a half percent there, So that's

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Speaker 4: you know, Historically, the way that you get out of

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Speaker 4: a debt trap is you run the lowest real rates possible,

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Speaker 4: you lower your interest burdens, and I'm sure that's what

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Speaker 4: we'll see beginning when the next FED chair comes.

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Speaker 1: Well, we definitely want to talk about who the next

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Speaker 1: FED shair might be. And who you would like to see.

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Speaker 3: But let's talk first a little bit.

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Speaker 1: More about the deficit, because it feels like, you take

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Speaker 1: a look at the bond market over the past few weeks,

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Speaker 1: the past few months, you can see those fears being expressed,

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Speaker 1: but concerns about a higher deficit. It feels like one

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Speaker 1: of those evergreen issues out there. So give us first

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Speaker 1: your feel how you're feeling about the deficit, production projections

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Speaker 1: that we've been getting, and also how you might invest

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Speaker 1: around that.

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Speaker 4: Well, the Big Beautiful Bill is really interesting. It's it's

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Speaker 4: first of all, well, it's a genius in branding. The

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Speaker 4: name of it's a genius in branding.

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Speaker 3: But I think what.

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Speaker 4: You've got to do is you you have to go

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Speaker 4: to first principles. What would the actual budget look like

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Speaker 4: if we were trying to balance the budget, If we

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Speaker 4: were actually trying to balance the budget, what is the

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Speaker 4: counterfactual to the Big Beautiful Bill.

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Speaker 3: So if you actually had.

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Speaker 4: To balance the budget, it probably would be the Big

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Speaker 4: Beastly Bill.

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Speaker 3: And at some point down the road, who knows when

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Speaker 3: that's going to be.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's next year, maybe it's the next administration, Maybe

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Speaker 4: it's ten years down the road. At some point, probably

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Speaker 4: the bomb markets are going to call bs on governments

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Speaker 4: around the world playing chicken with them, right. So to

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Speaker 4: give you an idea if you were to balance the

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Speaker 4: budget today, let's assume the first thing I would do

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Speaker 4: if I was president, I was trying out to point

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Speaker 4: the most douvish central banker I could to lower interest costs.

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Speaker 3: So let's assume that I could.

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Speaker 4: Make a pack with my UH, with my Chairman of

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Speaker 4: the Fed. But I'm going to go through an austerity package.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to balance it, but I need you to

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Speaker 4: really drop rates to let's say two and a half percent.

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Speaker 4: So if you drop rates to two and a half

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Speaker 4: percent and you get a fifty basis point reduction or

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Speaker 4: let's say even one hundred basis point reduction in ten

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Speaker 4: ure rates, that saves you one hundred and seventy five billion.

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Speaker 3: The starting gap is nine.

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Speaker 4: Hundred billion, so that saves you one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 4: five Now I'm down to seven hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 4: billion that I've got to find through tax hikes and

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Speaker 4: spending cuts. So let's assume that we're going to do

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Speaker 4: this fairly. We're gonna do fifty percent tax hikes in

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Speaker 4: the rich because they've benefited the most in the last

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Speaker 4: thirty forty years.

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Speaker 3: Fifty pp and cuts.

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Speaker 4: What does that look like On the spending cut size side,

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Speaker 4: I would just do, just to make it simple, let's

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Speaker 4: just call it a blanket six percent reduction in everything,

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Speaker 4: social Security, medicaid, defense, spending, you name it. I'm just

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Speaker 4: going to cut everything six percent across the board. That's

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Speaker 4: what it would take to get you three hundred and

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Speaker 4: sixty billion half.

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Speaker 3: Of that sentence to do with Congress, right, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Just saying there'll be a point where the markets are

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Speaker 4: going to demand it. I don't know when it'll be.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it'll be in my lifetime. Who knows when it'll be.

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Speaker 3: By the way, how do you invest around that?

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Speaker 2: Because you famously made a lot of money shortening the

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Speaker 2: end in Japanese assets into the last decade, which was

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Speaker 2: another situation where you saw a country just boost its

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Speaker 2: fiscal debt and deathicis.

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Speaker 4: I will get to that, but let me just finish

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Speaker 4: the tax hike side. So to get three hundred and

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Speaker 4: sixty three and tax hikes, you're gonna have to raise

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Speaker 4: the top income rate to forty nine. You're gonna have

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Speaker 4: to have a one percent wealth tax annually, and you're

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Speaker 4: gonna have to raise the capitol games right.

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Speaker 3: To forty huh.

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Speaker 4: So if we're just gonna if all we're gonna do

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Speaker 4: is stabilize debt to GDP, that's the big beastly bill

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Speaker 4: that's somewhere down the road.

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Speaker 3: And again who knows what it's gonna be.

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Speaker 4: Remember you have Italy, France, and Japan who on the

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Speaker 4: current projections, will be in worse fiscal shape than we are,

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Speaker 4: and they seem to be doing okay. And that's why

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Speaker 4: we keep that's why we keep the we keep going

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Speaker 4: with the cafe in wrestling, the suspended reality where we

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Speaker 4: like to watch the show, but we know it's not real.

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Speaker 4: So we know that these six percent budget deficits are

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Speaker 4: not sustainable in the long run. But it's okay because

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Speaker 4: it's okay now, it's okay the short run, and it

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Speaker 4: feels good and it's not.

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Speaker 3: It's actually really easy.

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Speaker 4: Remember in the first Trump administration, he normalized four percent

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Speaker 4: budget deficits, that's what we had pre COVID, and now

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Speaker 4: in this administration he's normalizing six percent budget deficits. So

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Speaker 4: and I'm not judging I'm just calling balls and strikes.

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Speaker 3: That's where we are.

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Speaker 4: So with that in mind, knowing that we have a

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Speaker 4: whole pricing structure that's created on something that's not sustainable,

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Speaker 4: it's really really hard to invest for the long run

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Speaker 4: because the day that it'll probably be the bond market first,

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Speaker 4: or maybe it's the dollar, who knows, the day that

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Speaker 4: we're called a carpet on that and the day that

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Speaker 4: you actually went through that exercise that I just described,

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Speaker 4: and you know that multiples on stocks will not be

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Speaker 4: where they are right now.

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Speaker 2: Right, But are you short the dollar? I mean you

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Speaker 2: mention you're into yields.

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Speaker 4: I would say that the easiest long term trades are

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Speaker 4: you know, the yield curve's going to steepen probably to

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Speaker 4: historic wise. You know, we're going to cut short term

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Speaker 4: rates dramatically in the next year, and you know the

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Speaker 4: dollar will probably be lower because of that, a lot

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Speaker 4: lower because of that.

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Speaker 2: How much lower off ten percent from our high right now?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I would say that that's I think that's a

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Speaker 4: year from today and that's probably a realistic assumption.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to one point that you made

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Speaker 1: in that blueprint that you laid out, and that comes

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Speaker 1: to appointing the most stubbish fed chair possible. Jerome Pal's

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Speaker 1: turn ends in May twenty twenty six. We've heard from

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Speaker 1: the President recently that he's going to announce some contenders

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Speaker 1: sometime soon. Bloomberg News has reported in the past twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours that Scott Besson has emerged as a pick.

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Speaker 1: Kevin worsh is under consideration. I mean, if you had

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Speaker 1: your pick, who do you think is best suited.

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Speaker 3: For the chair?

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Speaker 4: Those are two great names. Those are two fabulous names. Again,

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Speaker 4: if I was president, if I just think about President Trump,

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Speaker 4: he's just a he's a growth guy, right, He's a

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Speaker 4: He's a loyalty and growth guy. You're gonna be my pick.

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Speaker 4: If you're loyal to me, you're gonna be my pick.

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Speaker 4: If you're you're a growth guy. And I'd pick a

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Speaker 4: growth guy. And probably Scott would be more uh in

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Speaker 4: line with that than Kevin Wood. They will have had

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Speaker 4: a really close working relationship at that point. I also think, again,

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Speaker 4: the playbook's pretty clear, uh historically and right now, we're

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Speaker 4: we are fiscally constrained, We're in a debt trap.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna have to.

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Speaker 4: Run negative real rates to get out of it.

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Speaker 3: That's what we did in the fifties.

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Speaker 4: We had if you'll remember, we had a variety of

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Speaker 4: prices fixed by the treasury, why we had five and

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Speaker 4: six percent inflation for a period of time. We're gonna

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Speaker 4: have negative real rates, and that's why you have to

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Speaker 4: think about what is facing our policy makers in this

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Speaker 4: debt trap as you constructure portfolio. So what would an

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Speaker 4: ideal portfolio be and something like that, Well, what has

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Speaker 4: worked so far, What has worked so far has been

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Speaker 4: some combination of.

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Speaker 3: Stocks which won't do great, which.

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Speaker 4: Would do terribly if we ever actually had if they

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Speaker 4: called us out and the bottom market actually gave us

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Speaker 4: an accident that then spilled over. But it would be

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Speaker 4: some combination of probably gold vall adjusted bitcoin gold stocks,

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Speaker 4: that's probably your best portfolio to fight inflation vol adjusted

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Speaker 4: because the vall of bitcoins obviously five times out goal.

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Speaker 4: So you're gonna you're gonna do it in different ways.

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Speaker 2: You said at one point you would allocate one or

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Speaker 2: two percent of your portfolio to bitcoin.

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Speaker 3: Is it still yeah?

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Speaker 4: I mean I think you just particularly now that the

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Speaker 4: that the roadmap is clear, then I mean the the again,

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Speaker 4: if I'm a policymaker, I'm gonna run really low real rates,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna have inflation running hot. Uh, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 4: tax the American consumer to get out of my debt trap.

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Speaker 4: And that's exactly what Japan, who's the most fiscally constrained

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Speaker 4: in the world, doing, And it works until until the

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Speaker 4: population throws you out because you're let inflation get too hot.

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Speaker 3: So maybe you're in a world with three three.

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Speaker 4: And a half percent inflation and two and a half

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Speaker 4: percent overnight rate and you're kind of trying to run

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Speaker 4: hot and grow your way out of it.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit more about equities. You know,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned in that scenario that you laid out equities

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Speaker 1: obviously would do terrible. But where we stand right now,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're back to six thousand ish on the

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Speaker 1: S and P five hundred, We're slightly positive for the year.

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Speaker 1: It feels like after the big performance that we saw

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Speaker 1: in May, though, that people are not sure where to

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Speaker 1: go from here. So, assuming we continue along this path

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Speaker 1: where inflation is under control, it seems like the labor

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Speaker 1: market is under control, and trade negotiations continue to progress.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what's your base case on equities.

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Speaker 3: Well again, so.

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Speaker 4: A year ago, I never thought the bond market would

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Speaker 4: tolerate the big beautiful bill. I just didn't think it would.

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Speaker 4: I thought, wow, I thought there'd be a revolt. I

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Speaker 4: thought bomb vigilantes actually has.

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Speaker 3: Some stuff, but they'd come back out. But they clearly

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Speaker 3: haven't surfaced.

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Speaker 4: And as we haven't seen inflation, and and well there's

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Speaker 4: there's a couple of things going on. One we know

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Speaker 4: twelve months from now rates are going to drop recipitously

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Speaker 4: with a new FED share If you I mean, was

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Speaker 4: it last week when Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: Saw after was it I forget? Was it adp I

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Speaker 3: drop rates?

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Speaker 4: One Hunter Basis points yes, So we know where his

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Speaker 4: head is. We know who he's going to point well.

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Speaker 2: And just now the Vice President jd Vance said this

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Speaker 2: is monetary malpractice in a tweet reply to our Joe Weisenthal.

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Speaker 2: So they really want the FED to cut rates.

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Speaker 4: So that also is a tailwind for the bond market,

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Speaker 4: right because you know, short rates right now aren't going

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Speaker 4: to be there a year from today, So that's.

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Speaker 3: A tail wind.

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Speaker 4: And again, I think the biggest threat to the stock

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Speaker 4: market has been the has been our fiscal profligacy, something

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Speaker 4: like the Big Beautiful Bill, because that was always going

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Speaker 4: to be a threat to the safety and security the

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Speaker 4: bond market, whether investors would tolerate what's going on. And

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Speaker 4: right now it seems like, both globally and domestically that

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Speaker 4: the world's okay with Cafe kicking the can down the road.

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Speaker 3: We're going to suspend reality. It's okay. So in that

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Speaker 3: scenario again, if.

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Speaker 4: I have to make a decision on stocks and I

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Speaker 4: think that rates are going to be three percent twelve months, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm probably long.

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Speaker 2: By the way, you keep mentioning KFE and we're all

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Speaker 2: kind of watching this knowing it's fake, but don't really

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Speaker 2: care right now? Is that because we're not invested Because

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Speaker 2: Brad Gershner has this idea and Ted Cruz was on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg talking about it yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I think it's invest.

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Speaker 2: America where you give every child born one thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: and then allow parents or relatives to invest five thousand

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Speaker 2: a year. Then by the time they're eighteen of the

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Speaker 2: stock market continues to appreciate they have a serious nut,

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Speaker 2: but they're also they've got skin in the game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's see here, I'm here.

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm I'm the I'm the budget I'm the budget.

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Speaker 3: Hawk.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, i'm the budget in the in the in

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Speaker 4: the in the cranky guy. But that's the best four

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Speaker 4: billion dollars that would ever spend in history, because the

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Speaker 4: idea of making kids stakeholders from an early age and

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Speaker 4: capitalism is so important, Oh my gosh, and then allowing

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Speaker 4: employers or relatives or whatever to build that account so

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Speaker 4: that at an early age they understand the idea of entrepreneurialship,

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Speaker 4: of free markets, of of self individual excitement, about understanding

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Speaker 4: how productivity actually works, how we build things through our

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Speaker 4: own shared initiatives.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just spectacular idea.

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Speaker 4: It's the best four billion this government could ever spend.

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Speaker 1: So there's a good way to add to the deficit,

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Speaker 1: and there's a bad way. That would be the best

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Speaker 1: four billion. I'm very conscious of the clock. We only

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Speaker 1: have about eight minutes luck with you, so let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit about AI.

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Speaker 1: You've expressed concerns about AI in the past, and may

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Speaker 1: I believe you said that. I mean, it could be

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Speaker 1: pretty disastrous if you think about, if you really put

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Speaker 1: your thinking cap on. But I'm curious from the investment perspective,

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Speaker 1: when you wear your investor hat, how do you view it?

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Speaker 3: Then?

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's plenty of things to gets concerned about.

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Speaker 1: But we were having a great conversation with Cliff Astiness

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Speaker 1: of AQR last week. He's had a real change of

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Speaker 1: heart when it comes to AI. He's embraced it. Are

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Speaker 1: you embracing it?

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Speaker 4: Well, for sure, I'm embracing it. We tested two models

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Speaker 4: last week. Internally, we have a variety of quantinems a tutor.

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Speaker 4: We tested two models, commercially available models. Where AI has

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Speaker 4: gone in the last four months. In the last four

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Speaker 4: months is so incredible. These models will the do democratize

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Speaker 4: quant modeling for the markets Like I can just say

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Speaker 4: I've I've been an investment in quant modeling for the

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Speaker 4: last thirty years. Internally, externally, variety of ways, and what

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Speaker 4: these new models.

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Speaker 3: Do is.

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Speaker 4: What you know, there's a huge barrier to entry if

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Speaker 4: you think about quant modeling, which is I need to

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Speaker 4: have dozens. If you look at the big ones, the

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Speaker 4: really whether it's two Sigma or Jumper Human, they have

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Speaker 4: one hundred thousands of employees.

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Speaker 2: That's the edge, That's that's Cliff's edge, right with these

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Speaker 2: new models.

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Speaker 4: Wowie, it's it's incredible what these new models do. And

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Speaker 4: the reason that I bring that up, of course, you

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Speaker 4: have to embrace it. In our business, there's larger issues

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Speaker 4: regarding to Yeah, I think if you don't mind, I

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Speaker 4: can't tell you because I don't really trade individual stocks

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Speaker 4: that much. I'm actually using the models from a quant standpoint,

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Speaker 4: so I can't tell you which companies to buy.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty clear.

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Speaker 4: That this is obviously the most disruptive technology in the

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Speaker 4: history of mankind. If I can just give you that,

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Speaker 4: here's the way I think of AI. You're too young

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Speaker 4: for this.

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Speaker 3: But there was a great Twilight Zone Okay, great.

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Speaker 4: Twilight Zone episode where Aliens came down to Earth and

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Speaker 4: they had this and they hand this book.

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Speaker 3: It says to serve Man, and everyone goes.

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Speaker 4: Hooray, they're gonna They're gonna save humanity, see Humanitarian God.

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Speaker 3: And it turns out to be a cookbook.

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Speaker 1: I was ready to push back, but it's a beautiful kid.

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Speaker 3: Book I have seen.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, we just had a Robin Hood AI poverty

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Speaker 4: summit on Monday, which I was at.

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Speaker 3: Oh my lord, the things that AI are going to

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Speaker 3: do for education.

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Speaker 4: There is no excuse for a low income.

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Speaker 3: Kid not to have the greatest education.

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Speaker 4: If his parents are caregiver is taking care of them,

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Speaker 4: My gosh, they're going to have an individual tutor to

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Speaker 4: walk them through everything. So it's really spectacular. The downside

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Speaker 4: of AI is that we've been served. Right when I

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Speaker 4: say we've been served, you had in February Elon Musk.

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Speaker 4: You can think what you think of and with regard

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Speaker 4: to his moral compass, but he's the Thomas Jefferson Thomas

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Speaker 4: Edison of our time said AI has the twenty percent

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Speaker 4: possibility of wiping out humanity. There's the safety side that

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Speaker 4: should send off alarm bells throughout the world, particularly in

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Speaker 4: this country, particularly with this administration. And then just last

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Speaker 4: week you had Dario Entropic amadai am I pronouncing that correctly.

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Speaker 2: Anthropic is good enough.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, he said that in one to five years

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Speaker 4: we could have ten to twenty percent employment because of

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Speaker 4: the displacement of white collar jobs by AI.

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Speaker 3: So now we have unemployment, unemployment in this country in

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Speaker 3: one to five years.

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Speaker 4: So now you have this massive stability issue. You've got

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Speaker 4: a safety issue in a stability issue, and within the

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Speaker 4: big beautiful bill is a moratorium, a moratorium on AI regulation.

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Speaker 3: So no guardrails. Oh my gosh. That is when you've

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Speaker 3: just been certain and no one would see.

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Speaker 4: The interesting is no one in the AI community pushes

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Speaker 4: back on this right because they anyone that understands it

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Speaker 4: and sees how it's progressing. These models are increasing one

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Speaker 4: to five percent in their efficiency every four months. Understand,

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Speaker 4: these are real possibilities.

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Speaker 2: So Paul, how do we get to guardrails Because in

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Speaker 2: the case of the debt bomb, right as Gary Shilling

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Speaker 2: would call it, you've got bond vigilantes to push back.

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Speaker 2: In the case of the AI bomb, which we fear,

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Speaker 2: there's no government that's gonna regulate this because they'll lose

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Speaker 2: out to another government.

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Speaker 4: So I've come to this realization in the last two

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Speaker 4: years that actually, I think libertarianism is as much.

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Speaker 3: Of a threat to our society as.

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Speaker 4: Socialism the other it's the other end of it, right,

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Speaker 4: And you've really got this libertarian bit that's taken hold

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Speaker 4: of this administration so many of the biggest backers.

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Speaker 3: But oh my gosh, our country's.

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Speaker 4: Built on I mean, we're built on a system of

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Speaker 4: law and regulations. My private property rights, laws against the

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Speaker 4: soul robbery, etc. So what we have to figure out

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Speaker 4: in a thoughtful way, which is why you have to

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Speaker 4: sit down and begin a discussion, how do we have

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Speaker 4: AI for good?

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Speaker 3: How do we prevent the AI for bad?

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Speaker 4: Both on a safety standpoint and a security standpoint. One

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Speaker 4: thing that we really need to do is again, what

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Speaker 4: is the government's responsibility? What are company's responsibility? We're gonna

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Speaker 4: have this productivity boom, right, capitalism is so spectacular at

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Speaker 4: maximizing productivity, but it's.

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Speaker 3: Actually really bad, really bad.

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Speaker 4: In the tales in the tails, I'll say, it's really

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Speaker 4: bad about distributing income in a society a socially beneficial fashion.

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Speaker 4: The best example can be if we look at say

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Speaker 4: since nineteen the mid eighties, If you look and see

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Speaker 4: how the productivity gains in the United States have been distributed,

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Speaker 4: it's about fifteen percent to the bottom ninety and eighty

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Speaker 4: five percent of the top ten.

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Speaker 3: And so what happens when you.

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Speaker 4: Do that, well, you get the incredible divisiveness that we

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Speaker 4: have right now.

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Speaker 3: We have a.

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Speaker 4: Crisis of trust in this country. No one knows who

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Speaker 4: to trust. Hell, we had a faction of the Republican

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Speaker 4: Party storm the capital in twenty twenty because.

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Speaker 3: They lost an election.

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Speaker 4: So we're at a really socially fragile time because of

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Speaker 4: wealth disparity, and now we have AI that unless we

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Speaker 4: think about think about how we distribute those productivity gains

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Speaker 4: in a way. So is it Dario mentioned we're going

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Speaker 4: to have a token, and every time a model's Bill

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Speaker 4: Gates said we're gonna suggest it, I think six or

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Speaker 4: seven years ago, maybe be tax robotics.

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Speaker 3: There has to be a we need.

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Speaker 4: To sit down and thoughtfully think through how we distribute

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Speaker 4: becoming productivity gains so that people are happy and not unhappy.

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Speaker 2: Paul, it's been a real pleasure having you. I appreciate

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Speaker 2: you coming in. I hope we can get you back

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Speaker 2: sometime soon. Paul Tutor Jones there coach, chairman and chief

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Speaker 2: investment officer of Tutor Investment, also the founder of the

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Speaker 2: Robin Hood Foundation.