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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Huttle on Giants

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Speaker 1: dot Com, part of the Giants Podcast. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Giant Subtle Podcast. My name is John Schmelt. Today a

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Speaker 1: very special conversation with the general manager of the New

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Speaker 1: York Football Giants, Joe Shane. Had a chance to talk

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Speaker 1: with Joe Dan and Mobile at the Senior Bowl last week.

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Speaker 1: As a reminder, you could find the Giant Subtle Podcast

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Speaker 1: and the Giants Podcast Network on the Giants Mobile, Apple,

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Speaker 1: Giants dot Com, Slash Podcast, and on all your favorite

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Speaker 1: podcast platforms. If you're an Apple podcast, please leave a

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Speaker 1: five star positive review and don't forget folks as well.

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Speaker 1: You should check out Big Blue Kick Off Live. It's

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Speaker 1: on its own podcast feed. It's every weekday, Monday through Friday,

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Speaker 1: live twelve to one. Then of course the archive goes

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Speaker 1: up on the podcast. Make sure you go check it out.

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Speaker 1: We take calls from fans and talk Giants football all

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Speaker 1: year long. All right, we had a chance to talk

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Speaker 1: to Giants general manager Joe Shane. He gave us about

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Speaker 1: ten minutes of his time out there in Mobile. We

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Speaker 1: talked about the Senior Bowl and his general philosophy when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the draft. Here's my conversation with him. Joe.

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Speaker 1: First of all, thanks left for joining us, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me. Thoughts on this class overall, it's really unique.

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Speaker 1: A lot of you know, super seniors guys that stay

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Speaker 1: next year because the pandemics. So how has that really

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Speaker 1: impacted this class and what you're seeing here at the

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Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. Yeah, there is. There's a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: that we got a two year study on because they

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Speaker 1: did go back to school and we had reports on

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Speaker 1: him last year. So um, I think it's a deep

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Speaker 1: draft because of that, because players do get better. You know,

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Speaker 1: guys went back to school, another year in nutrition training

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Speaker 1: off season, and another year playing football. So I do

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Speaker 1: think it's a deep draft overall. How does the Senior

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Speaker 1: Bowl and what you see here impact your evaluation process

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Speaker 1: for a lot of these players. It's great because you

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Speaker 1: can't see them all in the fall. You can't go

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Speaker 1: see them all on the fall. So there's some some

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Speaker 1: players here today I've watched on film but I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen in person and see him move around and and

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Speaker 1: some players have good weeks and uh, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: they don't play the best competition and you get to

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Speaker 1: see him step up in competition. So it's very important

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Speaker 1: across the board. Just see how guys compete, what type

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Speaker 1: of shape they're in. You know, some people haven't played

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Speaker 1: you know, football in a month or two, so uh,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of tell, you know, how to how

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Speaker 1: serious they take it and how they're processes. What aspects

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Speaker 1: of the event do you pay attention to. Is it

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Speaker 1: watching guys when you know they're not on the ball,

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Speaker 1: Is it watching their body language? Is that the one

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Speaker 1: on ones? Is the game itself? What part of the

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Speaker 1: event is the most valuable for you? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: all of it. I mean we're watching, watching everything. We

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Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of scouts here in

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Speaker 1: terms of our personnel staff, so you know, I like

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Speaker 1: to stay on the sideline. I can kind of hear

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Speaker 1: what the coaches are teaching the guys. Who's responding, Um,

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Speaker 1: how do they treat the trainers when they need water?

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Speaker 1: Hey give me water? Or they hey can I please

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Speaker 1: have you know, I mean, you're just paying attention to everything,

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Speaker 1: how they treat people, and then to me at night,

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Speaker 1: the interviews are very important, really getting to dig into

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Speaker 1: these kids and figure out who they are as people.

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Speaker 1: Does does your interview with them match up with what

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Speaker 1: you got in the schools during the fall and with

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Speaker 1: the scouts guys. So again, just just being around the

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Speaker 1: guys as much as you can. So you know, again

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Speaker 1: we're making major investments into these players that that we

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Speaker 1: know everything that we we can about them. I realized

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Speaker 1: this is a broad question, but if you could summarize

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Speaker 1: just the type of player that you want to make

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Speaker 1: the core and foundation of your the program you're trying

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Speaker 1: to build you with the giants, what would some of

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Speaker 1: the characteristics of those players be. Yeah, you know, set

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Speaker 1: it in a couple of the uh. You know, wrestlers

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Speaker 1: are smart, tough, and dependable. You know, guys that are smart, tough, independable,

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Speaker 1: that care about football. They care about their teammates. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not so much about the glitz and the glamor

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Speaker 1: that comes with it, but you know, have some leadership

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Speaker 1: to you when maybe things aren't going wrong or teammates

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Speaker 1: aren't doing it well, you know, somebody will kind of

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Speaker 1: right the ship and get the team heading back in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. So, you know, those are type of

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Speaker 1: players that we're looking at. It makes all of our

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Speaker 1: lives easier if you don't have to, you know, your

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Speaker 1: whole support staff to have all hands on deck to

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Speaker 1: get somebody to do things the right way. So the

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Speaker 1: more of the guys that we get that buy into

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Speaker 1: the culture and are are all you know, have the

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Speaker 1: common goal of winning a championship in mind and through

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Speaker 1: our process, you know, paying attention to that on daily basis,

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Speaker 1: the better off we're gonna be. Houses event helps you

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Speaker 1: learn more about your scouting staff. Being here with the guys,

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Speaker 1: watching players with them. Yeah, well I just got here

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Speaker 1: this morning, so you know, the good thing was I

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Speaker 1: was able to dive into our you know, we have

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Speaker 1: books here that we bring down, so I was able

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Speaker 1: to really dive into the scouts background and you know

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Speaker 1: who is uh, you know, some of them have really

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Speaker 1: good in depth background and some are really good evaluators.

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Speaker 1: So really gonna feel for for how they are, you know,

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Speaker 1: the job they did in the fault and you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of it to know everybody on a little bit

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Speaker 1: more intimate level. Um. And then they'll be in next

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Speaker 1: week for meeting. So I'm really I'm gonna looking forward

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Speaker 1: to you know, obviously draft and getting ready and getting

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Speaker 1: to know the staff. Do you believe in the concept

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Speaker 1: of premium positions. You know, you look at the guys

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Speaker 1: in the top of the freegient market. Certain positions generally

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Speaker 1: get more money. You look at positions top ten of

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Speaker 1: the draft, certain positions that target to more pass rushers,

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Speaker 1: offensive tackle. Do you believe in that concept or you more?

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Speaker 1: You know, if the player is really good, I don't

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Speaker 1: really care where he plays. Yeah, that's a great that's

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Speaker 1: a great question. And I do. I do, because you know,

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Speaker 1: on the market to get a starting corner, you know,

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Speaker 1: a good starting corners gonna be twenty million dollars. You know,

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Speaker 1: get a good defensive end, it's gonna cost you twenty five.

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Speaker 1: A good receiver twenty a good quarterback. You know, these

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Speaker 1: guys are getting million dollars here pretty soon. So I do.

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Speaker 1: I do. Think that's important. You left tackles, so you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're paying that premium and you can get a

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Speaker 1: player that's a cross control for four to five years,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's a first round or five years,

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Speaker 1: if you do the fifth year option. I think you

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Speaker 1: have to look at that from an economic standpoint when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to build the team. So you guy that

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Speaker 1: likes to have more throws at the dark board, or

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Speaker 1: you a guy that likes to have the bigger bulls eye,

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Speaker 1: so maybe you get a better chance of a great player,

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Speaker 1: but or picks over all, you guy that likes to

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Speaker 1: have as many throws as possible. Yeah, I would say

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Speaker 1: where we are right now, you know, as many of

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Speaker 1: bats as you can get, you know, as many swings

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Speaker 1: as you can get. I think that's important where we

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Speaker 1: are as a team. But um, you know, again, if

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Speaker 1: if I don't think you're ever one player away, but

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Speaker 1: if if if there's a you know, in the second round,

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Speaker 1: and there's a player you gave a first round grade

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Speaker 1: two and you think that highly of him, then I

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Speaker 1: think you go get them. So I'm open to moving up,

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Speaker 1: moving back, whatever it may be. I you know, as

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Speaker 1: long as I can sleep good at night with the

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Speaker 1: decision that I make. If I if I move back

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Speaker 1: and I end up losing out on a player I like,

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Speaker 1: I gotta be able to live with that, or you know,

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Speaker 1: stay and take a guy or go up and get them.

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Speaker 1: But again, if you're drafting good players and you're you're confident,

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Speaker 1: you're convicted in your decision, then then you'll sleep good

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Speaker 1: at night. I thought one interesting thing you said at

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Speaker 1: your press conference. A lot of times you think you

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Speaker 1: miss more on the person than you do on the player.

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Speaker 1: In what ways can you miss on the person aside

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Speaker 1: from the obvious, you know, off the field issues type

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Speaker 1: of thing, And how can you adjust your scouting process

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Speaker 1: so you don't miss on the person. Yeah, that's where

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Speaker 1: you know, the scout's just gotta keep digging. In terms

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Speaker 1: of background on players at the colleges, these all star

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Speaker 1: games getta exp ozure to them. You can never know enough.

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Speaker 1: You know, ask about their teammates. If there's multiple players

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Speaker 1: from a team, Hey tell me about those other guys

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Speaker 1: from Oklahoma or Mississippi or whatever it may be. But

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Speaker 1: I think what happens is when you they get in

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Speaker 1: your building and maybe they don't work as hard, or

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Speaker 1: they don't love football, or when they're hurt. You know,

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Speaker 1: some people could fight through it, but they can and

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Speaker 1: they're not available because they won't push through pain. So

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Speaker 1: there's some little indicators there that that you can hopefully

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Speaker 1: uncover before you turn in the card on a player.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying. In terms of missing on

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Speaker 1: the player, there is you know, some some people have,

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Speaker 1: there's red flags off field issues, but then there's some

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Speaker 1: other things true passion for the game. Are they gonna

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Speaker 1: come in shape when they're away from the building. Are

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Speaker 1: they gonna be working hard? So those are all things

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Speaker 1: that we've got to try to figure out before we

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Speaker 1: turn the card in. And I think that's connected to

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Speaker 1: my follow up, how can you figure out because you

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Speaker 1: know what these players are now, it's easy to say,

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Speaker 1: all right, this is what this player can do. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to figure out what they can be and

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Speaker 1: if they can get there. So it's figuring out the

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Speaker 1: person a good way to figure out maybe what players

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Speaker 1: will be able to be developed more than others, like

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Speaker 1: you guys did with Josh Allen up and Buffalo for example. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I would says Spencer Brown was attackle we took

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Speaker 1: in the third round this year. You know Dawson Knox

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Speaker 1: we took a couple years ago in the third round.

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Speaker 1: He had no touchdowns in college. So I think what

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Speaker 1: you look at the traits, if they're really athletic and

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Speaker 1: they've got size and speed and all this stuff, and

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Speaker 1: maybe for whatever reason, they haven't developed and the production

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Speaker 1: hasn't matched. If they're wired the right way, and they

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Speaker 1: have the makeup. You know that this guy's gonna do

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Speaker 1: everything you can to reach his potential. He's gonna work hard,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna do extra. When you can mirror those two together,

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Speaker 1: there's a chance for them to reach your ceiling where

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Speaker 1: you may have a talented kid that's super talented doesn't

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Speaker 1: have the production, but he doesn't have the production because

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Speaker 1: he doesn't love football, or he doesn't work to study

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Speaker 1: the playbook, he doesn't put an extra time, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: do the rehab. You know, there's a margin frere there

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Speaker 1: and there's flag. So maybe you don't pursue that player

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Speaker 1: or you knock them down. But even when you knock

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Speaker 1: them down, those issues don't change. So if you bring

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Speaker 1: them into your building, you've got to know exactly what

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Speaker 1: you're getting, what you're balancing that you mentioned the metrics,

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Speaker 1: you know, times and all that sort of stuff. I

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Speaker 1: test Now they have a lot of the GPS data

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Speaker 1: to right where you're seeing actual game speed numbers. We

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Speaker 1: haven't gotten that before. How do you allands those things

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to evaluate these players? Yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: some teams have started to use that for they get

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Speaker 1: it from the colleges, and that's something we'll definitely utilize,

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Speaker 1: you know, the four times kind of the old school

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Speaker 1: you know that we've you know again you can measure

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Speaker 1: it against the test of time, which is which is good.

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Speaker 1: But uh, also getting some the GPS data from the schools,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of study their their practice habits, their

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Speaker 1: game their game data and uh, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that's all valuable and it's all piece of the puzzle

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Speaker 1: that we'll use. Two more, When you look at a

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Speaker 1: player and you know he's really talent, you he's a

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Speaker 1: good player, how do you balance that with what you're

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Speaker 1: asking them to do for your team? Because say, this

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Speaker 1: player is gonna be good if you play him in

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Speaker 1: this role, but maybe if your team doesn't use that

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Speaker 1: position in that role doesn't fit. So how do you

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Speaker 1: balance fit with overall talent in terms of trying to

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Speaker 1: make sure you get a great player to a great

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Speaker 1: player that's gonna be good for the way you want

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Speaker 1: to play? Yeah, not a good question. That's uh. That's

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Speaker 1: where the coaching staff comes in. Like, we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: that meeting here next week. Hopefully we'll have some more

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Speaker 1: coaches hired. In terms of our our staff, but you know,

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Speaker 1: come in and tell us exactly what you're looking for

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Speaker 1: from a position, specifics, critical factors and what are you

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Speaker 1: going to ask the player to do? And you know,

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Speaker 1: then we'll we'll come together as a staff and you

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Speaker 1: know what's important for tight end, what's important a receiver,

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Speaker 1: what's important a corner and then it as clearly as

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Speaker 1: they can define that role, that makes our job easier.

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Speaker 1: So again we're trying not gonna, you know, to bring

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Speaker 1: in a player that doesn't fit what they're trying to

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Speaker 1: do or the coaches aren't on board with because more

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Speaker 1: times than not, they're dead on arrival. So yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: where the communication and the collaboration and the synergy between

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Speaker 1: coaching staff and personnel staff will be imperative. And I

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Speaker 1: imagine that's connected with position player types for positions, right,

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Speaker 1: do you have thresholds for certain positions that you want

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Speaker 1: guys to meet where if you know, I want a

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Speaker 1: defensive end to be this height and weight and that's

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Speaker 1: kind of old school. Bill Parson has had those things, right,

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Speaker 1: do you believe in those things? Yeah, I'm a believer

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Speaker 1: in it. You know, size, length, speed, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that's all important, But there's only so many those

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Speaker 1: people walk in this earth. So again, there there are

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Speaker 1: some areas where you make exceptions. And if if they

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Speaker 1: are exceptions, you have to ask yourself, Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: how they compensate for what they're lacking? If it is length, okay,

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Speaker 1: how can they compensate for not having ideal length or speed?

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Speaker 1: Devin Singletary in uh Buffalo. You know he didn't run

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Speaker 1: a great fourty time, but how can he compensate? Well,

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Speaker 1: he's got rare vision and quickness, and so there aren't

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Speaker 1: compensating factors that you gotta identify, but you know those

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Speaker 1: are put in place. You know, this is the highest

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Speaker 1: weight speed we want. If they don't have it, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what they don't have and can they

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Speaker 1: overcome whatever deficiency it may be. And if you're doing

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Speaker 1: that again, that's a way to eliminate the margin for air.

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Speaker 1: Joe thanks so much of the time. That's John's general manager,

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Speaker 1: Joe Shane. We thank him for giving us the time

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Speaker 1: out there at the Senior Bowl as he continues the

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Speaker 1: Giants process to get ready for the NFL Draft. Hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed it. I enjoyed it as well. And we

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Speaker 1: hope to get some more time with Joe as this

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Speaker 1: offseason continues. I'm John Schmilk. Thanks for joining us on

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Speaker 1: this episode of The Giants Little Podcast. We'll see you

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Speaker 1: next time. Everybody,