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Speaker 5: Hey, daniels't it any aliens yet?

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Speaker 1: Not so far, at least not that I'm aware of.

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Speaker 5: Ooh, do you think you're not hearing your invitations to

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Speaker 5: come on the podcast?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, if they're hearing the podcast, maybe that's

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Speaker 1: why they're staying away.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, are you seeing our podcast is keeping humanity

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Speaker 5: for making first contact with an alien species?

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Speaker 1: It could be, but you know, if they don't like

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Speaker 1: dad jokes or bananas or chocolate, do we really want

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Speaker 1: to talk to them?

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Speaker 5: That's right. They can't be very cool if they don't

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Speaker 5: like any of those things. I mean, what are we

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Speaker 5: going to talk about with them?

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Speaker 1: I know that is in the end the great filter.

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Speaker 6: Hi.

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Speaker 5: I'm Hora May, cartoonist and the author of Oliver's Great

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Speaker 5: Big Universe.

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Speaker 7: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor a

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Speaker 1: uc Ermine, and I live five miles from the most

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Speaker 1: famous chocolate covered banana joint.

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Speaker 5: Wait what, I didn't know this? What makes it the

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Speaker 5: most famous one?

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Speaker 1: You'd never seen? Arrested Development.

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Speaker 5: I've seen the show. I guess I'm not a super

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Speaker 5: Is that like a real thing? Like the one featured

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Speaker 5: in the show is a real thing?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, absolutely, it's a real thing. In fact, there

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Speaker 1: are two chocolate covered frozen banana stands on Balboa Island

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Speaker 1: near my house, and they both claim to be the original.

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Speaker 5: Well one of them is lying.

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Speaker 1: Then, yes, one of them is lying.

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Speaker 5: Or one of them is wrong at least, or maybe

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Speaker 5: they're both wrong. Maybe the original one is in New

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Speaker 5: Jersey or something.

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Speaker 1: Either way, they're feuding about bananas and chocolate.

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Speaker 5: But then, which is one featured in the show that

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Speaker 5: must be the most famous one.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the one featured in the show

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Speaker 1: is one of the real ones or if it's a

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Speaker 1: fictional stand in.

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Speaker 5: Oh interesting, So then neither of them is very famous.

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Speaker 1: The concept of Newport Beach chocolate covered frozen bananas is famous.

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Speaker 5: Have you tried it? Is it good?

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Speaker 1: You know? Not a fan of the bananas?

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Speaker 5: Is it worth going to Bubboa Island to have them?

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Speaker 1: No? Not a fan of the bananas. Even if you're

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Speaker 1: covered in chocolate.

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Speaker 5: Wow. What if it's a dark chocolate that's.

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Speaker 1: Better, definitely better, but not good enough? You would stop

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Speaker 1: add the banana like you need it, anything but the banana.

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Speaker 1: It's just a chocolate delivery system, exactly. The banana's got

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Speaker 1: nothing to represent.

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Speaker 5: I would have thought it's the food that bring us

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Speaker 5: all together. Daniel, It's like this podcast is a chocolate

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Speaker 5: covered banana.

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Speaker 1: I know, and it's a big joke, so you think

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Speaker 1: we'd love it.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, speaking of podcasts, welcome to our podcast, Daniel

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Speaker 5: and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio in

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Speaker 5: which we.

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Speaker 1: Try to feed you the secrets of the universe. We

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Speaker 1: dip them in chocolate, we freeze them, we do everything.

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Speaker 1: We can to make them palatable because we think that

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Speaker 1: everything that's out there in the universe can be understood

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Speaker 1: and deserves to be understood by me and by you

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Speaker 1: and by everybody out there. Explanations are possible, and you

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Speaker 1: deserve to hear them.

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Speaker 5: That's right, You deserve to hear on this podcast, which

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Speaker 5: is in fact, the most popular podcast called Daniel and

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Speaker 5: Jorge Explain the Universe that has not been featured in

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Speaker 5: a TV show yet.

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Speaker 1: That's true. That's highly qualified but also accurate.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's all in the details. You could read the

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Speaker 5: fine prints.

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Speaker 1: We'll probably also the most successful podcast that mentions the

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Speaker 1: word banana so often. There might be podcasts dedicated to bananas.

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Speaker 5: I feel like you're making an unscientific claim. Have you

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Speaker 5: sampled all other podcasts to make that claim?

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Speaker 1: I have not. I'm guessing I'm definitely speculating. The first

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Speaker 1: step in science is speculating, Right. Then you go out,

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Speaker 1: you gather some data.

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Speaker 5: Let's see, that's your hypothesis.

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Speaker 1: I'll follow up on it.

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Speaker 5: That's your dull hypothesis.

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Speaker 1: Nature is always full of surprises, and so maybe the

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Speaker 1: podcast universe will surprise me.

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Speaker 5: We'll see, we'll see. But anyways, We do like to

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Speaker 5: take facts about the universe and all the amazing things

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Speaker 5: that are happening out there, cover them in delicious chocolate,

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Speaker 5: and then tell them to you so that you can

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Speaker 5: also appreciate what's out there and the dark mysteries of

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Speaker 5: the cosmos.

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Speaker 1: But this podcast isn't just us talking about the universe.

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Speaker 1: It's a conversation between us and you. We want to

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Speaker 1: know what you don't understand about the universe. We'd love

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Speaker 1: to know what puzzles you, what you'd like to hear

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Speaker 1: more about, and what explanations you find unsatisfactory. So if

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Speaker 1: you have questions about how the universe works, or you've

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Speaker 1: always heard something explained a certain way and it never

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Speaker 1: really clicked, please write to us to questions at Danielandjorge

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Speaker 1: dot com. We will write back to you and help

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Speaker 1: you figure it out.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because even though it sort of starts with guessing

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Speaker 5: before guessing comes to questions, right, scientific progress starts with

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Speaker 5: somebody looking at something and going, huh, how does that work?

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Speaker 5: Why is that the way it is? And can I

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Speaker 5: freeze it and cover it in chocolate?

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Speaker 1: Every scientific question ends with can I freeze it and

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Speaker 1: cover it in chocolate?

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Speaker 5: Yes? Can you take a cork, freeze it and covered

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Speaker 5: it in dark matter chocolate?

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Speaker 1: These are some dark forces we're playing with.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a tasty field of research there, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: it all starts with questions. And as you said, Daniel,

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Speaker 5: we love to take questions from our listeners, and sometimes

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Speaker 5: we dedicate whole episodes to answering them, or release trying

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Speaker 5: to answer.

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Speaker 1: Them, to making silly jokes about them. At the very minimum,

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Speaker 1: if I get a question that I think, hmm, I

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Speaker 1: bet other people want to hear the answer to this,

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Speaker 1: or I'm sure Jorge has some funny things to say

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Speaker 1: about this topic, then instead of just running back to you,

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Speaker 1: we will answer it here on the podcast for everybody

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Speaker 1: to hear.

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Speaker 5: Wait, are you saying there are questions you get and

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Speaker 5: you're like, nobody else wants to know the answer. You're like,

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Speaker 5: only the person asking this question could possibly be interested

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Speaker 5: in this topic.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, people send me their crazy, detailed theories of the

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Speaker 1: universe and they want specific answers to why it works

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Speaker 1: or doesn't work. That's not the kind of thing we

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Speaker 1: talk about on the.

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Speaker 5: Podcast, although maybe we should. I don't know. I wonder

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Speaker 5: if that would make an interesting episode to get some

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Speaker 5: of your theories about the universe that you get and

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Speaker 5: then figure out why they're not true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it would. And if I ever find one

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Speaker 1: that is compelling that does sound great, then absolutely we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about it on the podcast.

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Speaker 5: Or maybe we can. I'll shoot another podcast, you know,

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Speaker 5: Daniel and Jorge shoot down your theory of everything.

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Speaker 1: Why you're wrong about the universe with Daniel.

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Speaker 5: Yes, or just why you're wrong. That's actually a pretty

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Speaker 5: good idea there.

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Speaker 1: There's a podcast already called wrong about Everything.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but we need the more famous one.

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Speaker 1: We talk about bananas more than the other one.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. We recorded in Bubble Island, which automatically makes it

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Speaker 5: more famous. But anyways, we do like to ask her questions,

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Speaker 5: and so today on the podcast we'll be tackling listener questions.

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Speaker 5: Number fifty two. Is fifty two an important number?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one more important than fifty one.

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Speaker 5: I feel like it has area fifty two connotations.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that area fifty one? Oh?

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Speaker 5: Is it? No? I'm talking about the extra secret area

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Speaker 5: that people don't even know exist. It's the one after

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Speaker 5: Area fifty one.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you don't tell anyone about Area fifty three.

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Speaker 1: That's double extra secret. You need one more level of clearance.

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Speaker 1: They know about that, don't tell me because I have

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Speaker 1: no security clearance.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, we like to answer questions here and today

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Speaker 5: we have three great questions from listeners. One of them

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Speaker 5: is about Daniel's favorite topic, aliens. The other one is

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Speaker 5: about the electromagnetic fource and why it works the way

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Speaker 5: it does. And the third one is about saving humanity

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Speaker 5: by destroying something that maybe a lot of.

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Speaker 1: People hold precious chocolate covered bin in is Yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: cover the moon in Chumblin. All right, Well, let's jump

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Speaker 1: right in, Daniel. Our first question comes from Nick, who's

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Speaker 1: from Tucson, Arizona.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Daniel and Jorgey. This is Nick from Tucson, Arizona.

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Speaker 4: Growing up in a city that is so richly involved

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Speaker 4: in science and astronomy, asking questions about our universe has

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Speaker 4: become second nature. One of the reasons questions I've had

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Speaker 4: is this, in our search for life elsewhere in the universe,

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Speaker 4: we see abundant evidence that we are likely not alone

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Speaker 4: in the universe. However, on the off chance that we

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Speaker 4: actually are, what point do we make that determination? Given

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Speaker 4: one cannot prove a negative, I'm excited to hear your

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Speaker 4: breakdown of how we tackle such a dilemma. Thanks for

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Speaker 4: being awesome.

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Speaker 5: All right, interesting question from Nick here. I feel like

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Speaker 5: he's basically asking, how will we ever know whether we're

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Speaker 5: alone in the universe or not?

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Speaker 1: It's a good question, and I think he's also asking

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Speaker 1: what can we say? Is there some point at which

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Speaker 1: we draw the line and say we're done looking, we've

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Speaker 1: decided we're alone.

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Speaker 5: Like at some point in the future if we never

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Speaker 5: hear from other aliens and kind of have to figure

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Speaker 5: out that maybe we are alone? Right, Like it nobody

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Speaker 5: ever comes to visit you to your house, obviously the

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Speaker 5: answer is that you're the only person on earth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or everybody hates you. Yeah, that's the explanation. But

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Speaker 1: let's keep diluting ourselves. I think this question is really

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Speaker 1: interesting from the philosophical point of view, like how could

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Speaker 1: you ever know whether we're alone? And also it reveals

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Speaker 1: something about how we make statements in science, how you

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Speaker 1: can make statistical arguments even if you can't ever make

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Speaker 1: definitive arguments.

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Speaker 5: Well, Nick brings up the idea that it's impossible to

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Speaker 5: prove a negative, right, it's technically theoretically possible to say,

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Speaker 5: for example, that there are no pink unicorns out there

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Speaker 5: in the universe, because there might be, and so you'd

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Speaker 5: have to check every little nuok and cranny of the

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Speaker 5: entire cosmos to be able to say that such a

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Speaker 5: unicorn does not exist.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, And even checking every little nook and cranny the

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Speaker 1: last cosmos doesn't prove it right, especially in a case

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Speaker 1: of aliens, where the category is so broad and undefined.

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Speaker 1: It's basically any sension being that doesn't come from Earth.

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Speaker 1: You could have lots of different characteristics that we don't anticipate.

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Speaker 1: You might imagine, oh, if we check every single planet

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Speaker 1: out there and we don't find aliens, then we now

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Speaker 1: we're alone. But aliens could always exist in some manner

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Speaker 1: we didn't anticipate. So yeah, we might not find aliens

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Speaker 1: on rocky planets, but they could exist in gas giants,

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Speaker 1: or underground, or in the center of stars, or in

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Speaker 1: dark matter, or in some other way we hadn't imagined.

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Speaker 1: So it's impossible to ever say we are totally alone

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Speaker 1: in the universe. You can discover aliens, you can meet

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Speaker 1: them and conclude that they're there, but you're right that

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Speaker 1: we can't technically say definitively that we are alone.

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Speaker 5: Right ever, right, Like, it's theoretically impossible.

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Speaker 1: It's theoretically impossible to make a completely definitive statement. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that's too high a bar. That's not

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Speaker 1: the bar we use in science, for example.

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Speaker 5: Oh, you mean being correct is too high of a bar.

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Speaker 1: Making absolute definitive statements is not the business we're in.

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Speaker 5: Right, it's not the business because you can't do it.

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Speaker 1: You can't do it.

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Speaker 5: You try to do it, you wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 5: do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And so instead we have statistical tools that

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Speaker 1: tell us, like how confident we can be in a statement.

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Speaker 1: You could never say anything really definitively, even things like

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Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. When we discovered the higgs boson, we

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Speaker 1: claim discovery of it, but we also said, here are

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Speaker 1: the chances that we're wrong, here's the chances that the

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Speaker 1: Higgs boson doesn't exist, and it just sort of looks

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Speaker 1: like it.

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Speaker 5: Does, right, Right. That just kind of gets to how

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Speaker 5: science actually works, which is through this idea of them

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Speaker 5: all hypothesis. Right, Like, for example, even the Higgs boson,

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Speaker 5: it's not like you went out there and you said, well,

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Speaker 5: I have a certain degree of confidence of the Higgs

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Speaker 5: boson exists. You're actually really what you're saying in your

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Speaker 5: science papers is saying, we have a certain degree of

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Speaker 5: confidence that not having the Higgs boson is not possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we calculate very precisely the probability of having been fooled,

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Speaker 1: because remember, we don't see the Higgs directly. It's not

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Speaker 1: like something we can say, here is one look at it.

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Speaker 1: It's not like discovering a unicorn in the forest. We

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Speaker 1: only see its footprints and its hair left on trees,

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Speaker 1: and we have indirect evidence, like we almost always do

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Speaker 1: in science, and so we can calculate the probability of

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Speaker 1: seeing that indirect evidence without there being a Higgs boson,

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Speaker 1: which is not zero, and we can say, well, we

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Speaker 1: can rule that out, not completely, not definitively, but we

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Speaker 1: can say it's very unlikely, and we can be very

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Speaker 1: specific about the level at which it's unlikely, and there's

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Speaker 1: a standard threshold above which we're allowed to say we've

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Speaker 1: discovered it. We've pretty much settled it. But of course

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Speaker 1: it's never definitive.

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Speaker 5: Although I wonder if with something like the Higgs boson,

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Speaker 5: you maybe you can't say that you've seen one, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: if you collide something and you see a particle fly

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Speaker 5: out of it, then the maybe you could say that

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Speaker 5: it is there with a one hundred percent confidence.

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Speaker 1: We can never say that with one hundred percent confidence.

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Speaker 1: The Higgs Boson lasts for like ten to the minus

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Speaker 1: twenty three seconds. We can never see. We only see

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Speaker 1: what it turns into, unfortunately. But that's the case of discovery,

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Speaker 1: which is special and wonderful. We can also play statistical

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Speaker 1: games when we don't discover something. We can say, for example, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's a new particle. If it did exist, we probably

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Speaker 1: would have seen it, and so we can conclude that

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Speaker 1: it likely doesn't exist. And that's not getting definitive. It

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Speaker 1: could be that we got unlucky or something. But it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like you know, looking for Bigfoot. If you

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Speaker 1: look all through the forest and you don't see Bigfoot,

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Speaker 1: then you can say, well, Bigfoot might exist, but he's

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Speaker 1: got to be pretty rare, or pretty sneaky, or got

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Speaker 1: some camouflage technique that we didn't think of already. You

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Speaker 1: can still make negative statements even if they're not definitive.

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Speaker 5: Right, But in the case of like big foot or aliens.

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Speaker 5: I feel like, once you see one, then that's one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent confidence that they exist. Right. I think maybe

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Speaker 5: Nick is asking more about the scenario where we don't

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Speaker 5: see one. So if we see an alien, then for

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Speaker 5: sure we know for one hundred percent with confidence that

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Speaker 5: they exist. But if we never see one, at what point,

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Speaker 5: I think is the next question? Do you say, well,

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Speaker 5: I guess they don't exist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree in spirit with what you're saying. I

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Speaker 1: just want to put an asterisk there, because even if

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Speaker 1: you see an alien, you never know one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: You could be being fooled or whatever. No knowledge really

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Speaker 1: is one hundred percent definitive, but in practice we call

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Speaker 1: that definitive. There are a case in the past where

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Speaker 1: we found things were like, there's no way that this

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Speaker 1: could have been faked, and then we you know, we're

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Speaker 1: pretty sure dinosaurs are real. For example, nobody takes seriously

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Speaker 1: the scenario that dinosaurs are all fake.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Or like a whale, like we know, if we'll

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Speaker 5: one hundred percent certainty that whales exist and that whales

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Speaker 5: are a thing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I mean technically again, like there's always an

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Speaker 1: asterisk there. You never know anything one hundred percent, but

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Speaker 1: practically making the probability being fooled. They're so small we

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Speaker 1: basically call it zero. Yes, you're right, but you're right.

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Speaker 1: Nick is focused also on the other scenario. What can

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Speaker 1: we learn from not discovering aliens? Is there some point

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Speaker 1: at which and so we can make statistical statements like

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Speaker 1: we know if the universe was filled with aliens and

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Speaker 1: that were very loud in electromagnetism and travel with stars,

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Speaker 1: very enthusiastically, we would have seen them already. And so

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Speaker 1: by not having seen them, we can say, well, if

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Speaker 1: those aliens exist, they must be rare, and we can

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Speaker 1: say how rare they have to be for us to

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Speaker 1: not see them. So we can make negative statistical statements

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Speaker 1: about aliens.

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Speaker 5: Or not about aliens, but about scenarios for aliens. Right, Like,

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Speaker 5: you're not saying aliens don't exist. You're just saying aliens

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Speaker 5: they watch a lot of TV, broadcast TV and have

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Speaker 5: spaceships that figure out inner citable travel. Those are maybe

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Speaker 5: less likely, although those could still exist. You know, maybe

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Speaker 5: they don't like to travel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You can imagine a scenario and you can say, well,

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Speaker 1: what are the chance is that if that scenario is real,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have seen aliens, and so if you imagine

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Speaker 1: a scenario where aliens are visiting Earth all the time,

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Speaker 1: it's very unlikely that we don't see them, and so

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Speaker 1: if we haven't seen them, you can mostly rule that

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Speaker 1: scenario out. But there are always other scenarios like maybe

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Speaker 1: they can't travel, maybe they're weirder than we imagine, maybe

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Speaker 1: they don't care to travel, they don't want to contact us,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they all died a billion years ago, or

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Speaker 1: they're hiding, or there's always some scenario in which aliens

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Speaker 1: could exist and we haven't seen them.

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Speaker 5: So basically, if you haven't seen them, there's nothing you

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Speaker 5: can say about aliens, because I feel like there's so

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Speaker 5: many ifs and possibilities. You're really just starting to, you know,

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Speaker 5: make statements based on subjetions that you know, you really

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Speaker 5: don't have any information about.

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Speaker 1: I think the kind of stuff you can say if

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Speaker 1: you don't meet aliens is pretty weak, but not exactly

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Speaker 1: nothing like aliens that desperately want to come to Earth

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Speaker 1: and have the capabilities to do. So, those aliens don't exist,

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Speaker 1: like if they existed, they would be here, So we

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Speaker 1: can rule out some scenarios. But the space of possible

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Speaker 1: scenarios that we can't rule out is infinite, and it's

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Speaker 1: much much bigger than the things we can rule out.

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Speaker 1: So like, what fraction of the scenarios have we ruled

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Speaker 1: out by not discovering aliens? Basically zero, But that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean there are no scenarios we've ruled out. We've learned

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Speaker 1: a little bit by not having met aliens. I see.

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Speaker 5: I think what you're saying is that we can sort

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Speaker 5: of paint, you know, very subtle shades of rarity about

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Speaker 5: the idea or the question of whether aliens exist. But again,

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Speaker 5: these are just kind of like shades of statements that are,

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Speaker 5: you know, based on assumptions, and really nobody knows.

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Speaker 1: Really nobody knows, but you can learn something like, for example,

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Speaker 1: in our book, we go into some of these scenarios,

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Speaker 1: Imagine there's a civilization out there in the galaxy that

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Speaker 1: builds self replicating robots, robots that go off into space

403
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Speaker 1: and find moons and mine them and make more of them.

404
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Speaker 1: So you can exponential number of these robots because each

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Speaker 1: one makes two more, which makes two more, which makes

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Speaker 1: two more, and you can ask, like how long does

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Speaker 1: it take before that civilization sends a robot to every

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Speaker 1: single planet in the galaxy. The answer is like tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of years. So if the galaxy is billions

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Speaker 1: of years old, if that civilization exists, or at least

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Speaker 1: one of them, then Earth should have some of those

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Speaker 1: robots visiting us. So that hasn't happened, for example, We're

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Speaker 1: pretty sure, and so we can say like, that scenario

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Speaker 1: is mostly ruled out. So there are interesting scenarios that

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Speaker 1: we can mostly rule out. Though you're right, we're always

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Speaker 1: making statistical statements and there's lots of stuff we can't

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Speaker 1: rule out.

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Speaker 5: Right, and at some point I feel like you're basically

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Speaker 5: making invaluable unvaluable statements, Like at some point you're basically saying, well,

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Speaker 5: if we haven't seen Superman yet, that means that there

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Speaker 5: isn't an alien race out there that grew up in

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Speaker 5: around the Red Sun that was about to explode and

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Speaker 5: then their parents sent at this kid out in a

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Speaker 5: space ship and on Earth. That's something we can say

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Speaker 5: about aliens. Yes, because so far we haven't seen Superman yet.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. Off the infinite list of possible scenarios,

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Speaker 1: we can cross one off the list. That's progress. It's

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Speaker 1: still infinitely long.

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Speaker 5: No, you can't even cross out the list.

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Speaker 1: You can paint it with a statistical rarity. Right, you

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Speaker 1: can say that's much.

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Speaker 5: Less likely, not even that cat right, I mean, it's statistics.

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Speaker 5: So just because you haven't rolled twelve on a die

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Speaker 5: doesn't mean that you can't.

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Speaker 1: That's right. But if you've rolled the die a lot

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Speaker 1: of times you never see twelve, then you can start

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Speaker 1: to make statements ill possible. It's still possible, ill possible

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Speaker 1: where you can make statistical statements. Right. It's not true

439
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: that you can say nothing right, Right.

440
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 5: But I guess you can debate how useful the statistical

441
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 5: statement is.

442
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: It's totally unsatisfying, especially in comparison to discovering aliens. Right,

443
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 1: But it's how we make progress. Right. It also gives

444
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: us inspiration, like if we can think carefully about the

445
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: kind of categories we have been able to see, it

446
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: makes us aware of our blind spots, like, oh, well, actually,

447
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 1: it turns out we've only been looking for people that

448
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,639
Speaker 1: broadcast in electromagnetism. Let's look for messages in neutrinos or

449
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: in gravitational waves. Right, inspires us to think outside the

450
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: box a little bit more.

451
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 5: Mmmm, let me see, helps you maybe narrow the search

452
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 5: of how you're looking for aliens?

453
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually broaden the search right, consider other ways we

454
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 1: might be contacted.

455
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 5: All Right, what would you say is the answer for Nick? Here?

456
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: I would say we never make that determination.

457
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 5: Superman does not exist.

458
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: I would take an even bet against Superman existing for sure, Yes,

459
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: but we can never prove that we're totally alone in

460
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 1: the universe.

461
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 5: All Right. I wonder if that's comforting or not. Would

462
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 5: you want to know you're the only species in the

463
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,920
Speaker 5: universe or would we feel better knowing there are other

464
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 5: aliens out there.

465
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: It's sort of frustrating because it's one of these questions

466
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: where either answer, yes, we're alone in the universe, so

467
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: we're super rare and special, or no, we're not alone

468
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: in the universe, so there's other intelligent life out there.

469
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 1: Either answer is amazing and mind blowing. So it's kind

470
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: of frustrating if the answer we get instead is hmm,

471
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 1: maybe here's some statistics.

472
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 5: Here are some statistics based on some guesses. Yeah, based

473
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 5: on some comic books and sci fi novels that Daniel

474
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 5: has read.

475
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: Yes, that's absolutely less satisfying than a definitive answer yes

476
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: or no. That's pretty frustrating. I feel you, Nick, I

477
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: feel you.

478
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 5: All right, Well, it sounds like there is no point

479
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 5: at which we can make that determination. But at some

480
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 5: point you kind of have to get suspicious about whether

481
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 5: or not they do exist out there. Yeah, all right, Well,

482
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 5: Nick is definitely not alone in having questions about the universe.

483
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 5: Other people have questions and they have sent it to us,

484
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 5: and we are going to answer them here on the program.

485
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 5: So when we come back, we'll tackle two more questions

486
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 5: about electromagicating charges and about destroying the moon. But first,

487
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 5: let's take a quick break.

488
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,480
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Speaker 1: If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the

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539
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540
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541
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Speaker 1: themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse gas neutral

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555
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Speaker 1: dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

556
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Speaker 5: All right, we're answering listener questions here today, and our

557
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 5: next question comes from column.

558
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 9: Hey, I'm Callum, and I wanted to know why specifically

559
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 9: do positive and negative charges attract to each other? As

560
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 9: well as why do you to negative charges and to

561
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 9: positive charges repel from each other? How exactly does that work?

562
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 5: Thank you? All right? Awesome question from column here. It

563
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 5: sort of gets into the very idea of what is

564
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 5: the nature of forces and electromagnetic forces and charges? Right?

565
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question, really fun, really deep, kind

566
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: of philosophical and it came to me actually originally from

567
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: column's physics teacher. He said he got this question in class,

568
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: wasn't sure how to answer it. Could I help him out?

569
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: And so I thought, hey, let's talk about it, and

570
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: he agreed to play our answer in class high Column

571
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: and everybody in your class. Yeah, hello, I hope you're

572
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: not disappointed. Let's give them the answer first and then

573
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: we'll see.

574
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 5: It disappoint Do you think this is more or less

575
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 5: exciting than the lecture that a Colin's teacher normally would

576
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 5: have done?

577
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm pretty sure Colins teacher is a fabulous lecture

578
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: in addition to being good looking.

579
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 5: Yes, best Teacher of the Year award multiple years going

580
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 5: or at least they will.

581
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: Yes, and probably hilarious too, right.

582
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, all teachers should play our podcast on her classroom.

583
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: But thank you to all the high school science teachers

584
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: out there for your service on the front lines of education.

585
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, And for all of you students out there,

586
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,959
Speaker 5: if you give us a five star rating on Apple

587
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 5: Podcasts or any of those platforms, you automatically get an

588
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 5: a in this class.

589
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, or hey, does not have the authority to

590
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: promise that, but go ahead give us a five star rating.

591
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, no, we never tell the lies here in

592
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 5: this podcast.

593
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's statistically possible that you could get from

594
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: giving us a five star rating that we can't say definitively.

595
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness. Now I feel really

596
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 5: alone and make my statement.

597
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: Better statistics than lies.

598
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 5: Right, all right. I wanted to get to Colin's question.

599
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 5: Colin wanted to know why do plus and minus charges

600
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 5: attract and why do two charges with the same polarity repel? Like,

601
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 5: how does that work? Why is it so binary? I guess,

602
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 5: And what makes one combination attract and the other one repel.

603
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really fun question because it gets to

604
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: the nature of like what is charge? What do we

605
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: really know about it? And it also gets to the

606
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: question of like, well, why does electromagnetism attract with opposite

607
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: charges and why do other forces not? You know, for example,

608
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: and electromagnetism, two positive charges repel, but in gravity, two

609
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: positive masses attract each other. So there's lots of different

610
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: directions to go in with this question.

611
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 5: Right, because you have the idea that a charge is

612
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 5: like just a property of particles, Right, they're like little

613
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 5: labels that you attached to things to stuff out there,

614
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 5: like electromagnetic charge or like mass, or like maybe some

615
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 5: of the other charge forces.

616
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely a valid way of thinking about it,

617
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: and that's the way we teach it. But I think

618
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: there's a layer we need to pull apart there so

619
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: we clear on which part of it is actually something

620
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: we observe and which part of it is sort of

621
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: an explanation we've concocted to explain what we've observed. Because

622
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: in the end, charge is a tool we use to

623
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: explain attraction and repulsion. That's what we see out there,

624
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: see a bunch of particles. Some of them push against

625
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: each other, some of them attract each other. And what

626
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: we've noticed is if you put these labels on the particles,

627
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: call some of them plus and some of them minus,

628
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 1: and you come up with this explanation like charges attract

629
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: and opposite charges repel, then it works. It's consistent. It

630
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: explains all the attraction and repulsion that we see. So

631
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: it's not like we discovered charge. What we discovered is

632
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: some particles push and pull, and we came up with

633
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: charge as a way to explain that.

634
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 5: You're saying, like the idea of a charge, which is

635
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 5: really just it's a definition thing. A charge is maybe

636
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 5: not something fundamental to the universe. It's just something we

637
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 5: came up with to explain what we see. Yeah, that's

638
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 5: the philosophical side of it. We don't know if this

639
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 5: really is a property of the universe or just part

640
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 5: of the story that we tell. But what we definitely see,

641
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: what we observe is the pushing and the pulling, and

642
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 5: we use charges to explain that. I think there's another

643
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 5: important wrinkle there in something you just said, which is

644
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 5: this are a property of the particles. It's actually really fascinating

645
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 5: because it's a property actually of a pair of particles. Like,

646
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 5: what does a particle do if it has charge and

647
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: it's all alone in the universe. Well, it doesn't push

648
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 5: or pull. It doesn't get pushed, it doesn't get pulled. Right,

649
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 5: It's only when you put another charge there do they

650
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 5: push or pull on each other. So it's sort of

651
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: like velocity, where velocity is relative. You know, you can

652
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 5: only measure a velocity of an object relative to something else.

653
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 5: Velocity is not the property of an object. Even though

654
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 5: we describe particles as having charge, it's only really meaningful

655
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 5: relative to another particle. So it's more like the property

656
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 5: of a hair of particles. Here's two that have the

657
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 5: same charge, here's two that have opposite charge, And we've

658
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: come up with a consistent explanation to describe all of that,

659
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 5: and so we think that's probably what's going on, but

660
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 5: you know, we don't really know. Okay, So you're saying

661
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 5: that as scientists, we've been studying things out there in

662
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 5: the universe, and sometimes we notice that when you have

663
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 5: these little things particles, sometimes they repel each other and

664
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 5: sometimes they attract each other, and we've come up with

665
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: this scenario where when they attract each other it must

666
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 5: be because they have opposite of something, and when they

667
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 5: repel each other's when they have the same of something. Yeah,

668
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 5: and we call that a charge.

669
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.

670
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 5: So to ask like, why does that happen, the answer

671
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 5: is like, basically because it does.

672
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: Well, the answer is we see it happen, and we

673
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: can tell a story about the mechanism behind it. Right,

674
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: we have this idea that each particle that has a

675
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: charge creates a field, and that field has a force

676
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: on other particles, and so we can describe it. We

677
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: can accommodate. But we're doing much better than just saying

678
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: this is what happens in the universe. We're not just

679
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: describing everything we see. We're really explaining it. And you

680
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: can tell the difference between describing and explaining because explanations

681
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: are simpler. They're not just a list of everything you've seen.

682
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: They're more compact, they're more economical. So specifically, if you

683
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: have like ten particles, you want to understand, there's like

684
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: fifty different unique pairs of those particles. So a totally

685
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: descriptive theory, one that just lists what happens between every

686
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: particles would have like fifty pieces of information, wouldn't simplify

687
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: anything at all. The idea of electric charge is really

688
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: an explanation because by putting a plus or a minus

689
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: on every particle, that's just ten pieces of information one

690
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: per particle. Then the result for any pair of particle

691
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: is determined by the relative charges. So it's not just

692
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: a description of what happens. It's a clever, compact, economical explanation,

693
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: and that's good physics. The rest is to philosophy, Right,

694
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: why does the universe work this way and not some

695
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: other way? That's a deeper philosophical question. We can also

696
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: talk about why in electromagnetism like charges repel whereas in

697
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: gravity like charges attract. That is something we do understand.

698
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like basically you're saying that the

699
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 5: answer is because it does, Like why is it that way?

700
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 5: Because that's what we observe. But I wonder if maybe

701
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 5: Colin is asking more, like you know, in our knowledge

702
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 5: and our models of quantum mechanics and particle and quantum fields,

703
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 5: like what is the basis of a charge in that scenario?

704
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 5: And what's the mechanism by which having a positive or

705
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 5: negative of that charge makes you attract or repel another particle.

706
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the story is fascinating and compelling. The way

707
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: we talk about it is that particles have these fields

708
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: around them. So electron creates an electric field, right, And

709
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: it depends on the charge. A proton has a different

710
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: field than an electron, and that feel can vary, you know,

711
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: it can be like stronger here and weaker there, and

712
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: that variation is crucial if the field is slanty. If

713
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: it's like stronger in one place and weaker in another place,

714
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: it will create a force on other charged particles. So

715
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: the slantiness of the field is where that force comes from.

716
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: Just like if you put a ball down on the ground,

717
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: If the ground is leveled, the ball's not going to

718
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: roll anywhere. But you put a ball down on a hill,

719
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: it's going to roll downhill. In exactly the same way.

720
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: You put a charge particle in space where the field

721
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: has a gradient where it varies. It's stronger in one place,

722
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: weaker somewhere else. It's going to feel a force pushing

723
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: it to where the field is weaker depending on its charge.

724
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 5: Right, I feel like you're saying again, just more of

725
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 5: like it is because it is. But I wonder if

726
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 5: you can say something about in your math formulations of

727
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 5: quantum mechanics for quantum particles, how do you account for

728
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 5: a charge? Is it just like a little number you

729
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 5: append to a particle or to like a viable that

730
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 5: you call a particle? And then how does it come

731
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 5: up that if you have the same as sign or

732
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 5: plus or minors, then you repel? And how does it

733
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 5: come out that you attractive? We have different signs?

734
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: Yes, so econo mechanics, we have these labels that we

735
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: assigned to particles. And I think maybe what you're looking for,

736
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: and what Colin is asking about, is like, where do

737
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: these labels come from? What really is charge? Sure, they

738
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: seem to work and they're compact, and we can use

739
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: them to predict the forces on particles. But do we

740
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: understand where the charge itself comes from? The answer is no.

741
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: And here's where we get a bit philosophical, because you

742
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: have to think carefully about the kind of answer you're

743
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: looking for when you ask this question. Take a step back,

744
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: for example, and ask a similar question, why does a

745
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: proton have charge plus one? Where does that come from? Well,

746
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: we know the answer. It comes from the bits. The

747
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: proton is made out of the quarks, so back to

748
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: the electron, or for the quarks also, what's the answer there, Well,

749
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: we don't know, because we don't know what the electron

750
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: is made out of, or if it's made out of

751
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: anything but just the electron. So for bigger stuff that's

752
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: made of small stuff, we can answer this question. We

753
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: can explain it in terms of that smaller stuff. For

754
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: the smallest stuff, we can't. It's just how the universe is,

755
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: and that will be also true when we eventually find

756
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: out what's at the foundation of the universe. It's the smallest,

757
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: most basic bit of matter, we'll look at it and

758
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: say why is it the way that it is? And

759
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: if it really is the foundation of the universe, we'll

760
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: have no answer because we can't explain it in terms

761
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 1: of its bits, because it doesn't have any internal bits.

762
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: So that's the philosophical answer. We don't yet know what's

763
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: inside the electron, if anything, so we don't really have

764
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: any insight into why it has charge. But zoom back

765
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: off from that philosophy and you can still learn things

766
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: about forces and fields and charges if you start from

767
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: the charge and the field it makes that tells you

768
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: something about the forces. We act as if the charge

769
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: is a property of the particle, and then it creates

770
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: these fields, and those fields push or pull on the

771
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: other particles. But the nature of the field, whether it's

772
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: electromagnetism or gravity, determines whether like charges attract or like

773
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: charges repel. And that gets a little bit mathematical. It's

774
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: like the structure of the field. Is it a vector field,

775
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: is it just a scaler? Like is there a number

776
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: or is there a direction to the field that determines

777
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: the kind of particle that transmits the information. So in an electromagnetism,

778
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: we have the photon, right, the photon is a complicated particle.

779
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: It has spin, whereas the Higgs field, for example, has

780
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: the Higgs boson, which doesn't have any spin. And it

781
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: turns out it's the spin of that particle that's communicating

782
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: the information that determines whether like charges attract or like

783
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: charges repel.

784
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 5: Wait, wait, what do you mean, Like, what's the connection

785
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 5: between the spin of something and it's charge And are

786
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 5: you talking to actually about like particle spinning or are

787
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 5: you talking about some thing we call spin.

788
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: Well, when we're talking about particles, they don't actually spin.

789
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: They just have this thing we call quantum spin, right,

790
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: And so some particles don't have any of it, we

791
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: call them spin zero. Some particles have spin one, some

792
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: particles have spin half. All of the particles that transmit

793
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: forces like electromagnetism have unit spin spin zero, spin one,

794
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: spin two. So the photon, for example, is a spin

795
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: one particle, and that comes out of the nature of

796
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: the electromagnetic field. Like when you make photoons, which are

797
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: ripples in this electromagnetic field, you make these particles that

798
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: can have spin, and that's because the electromagnetic field has

799
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: vectors that can like point in different directions, whereas the

800
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: Higgs field is just a number, and so the ripples

801
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: you make in it don't have any spin. And then

802
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: the spin of these particles that transmits the forces determines

803
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: whether like charges attract or repel. So electromagnetism, because it

804
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: has a photon, a spin one particle, that's what makes

805
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: like charges repel.

806
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 5: Why is it? What's the connection there? Why does the

807
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 5: photon having spin one make like charges repel.

808
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to do with how we construct the

809
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: mathematics of the quantum field theory. Basically, you get a

810
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: negative sign every time you go up in spin. So

811
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: spin zero, like charges attract. You add spin to spin one,

812
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: you get a negative sign. You add another spin to

813
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: spin two, like the graviton, then like charges attract again.

814
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: So it comes out of the statistics of quantum field theory,

815
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: which I think is a little too hairy to get into.

816
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 5: So wait, are you saying that photons have spin?

817
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: Photons have spin? Absolutely, Photons can be polarized, right that

818
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: whole episode about polarization of photons. They can spin this way,

819
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: they can spin that way.

820
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 5: And so when when you say spin one or spin zero,

821
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 5: what does that actually mean, like the number of dimensions

822
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 5: or are we just creating categories to explain why something's

823
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 5: attract and repel.

824
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: Well, spin zero means just just a number, doesn't have

825
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: any spin. Spin one means it's a vector. It points

826
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: in some direction. It can also point in the other direction.

827
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: Spin two is for really complicated particles like gravitons. They're tensors.

828
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: They're more like not a vector, they're more like a matrix,

829
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: really complicated, so they can have more values of spin.

830
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: A particle that's called quote unquote spin one can have

831
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: zero plus one or minus one spin article. That's quote

832
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: unquote spin two can have plus two plus one zero

833
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: minus one minus two. So as the structure the field

834
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: itself gets more complicated, the nature the particle is more complicated,

835
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: and then that changes the kind of interaction that it mediates.

836
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 5: I see. So I feel like maybe you're saying that

837
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 5: the answer for our high school audience here is that

838
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 5: it's sort of related to the dimensionality of the forces

839
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 5: that we're talking about. Like, if the force that we're

840
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 5: talking about has a certain number of dimensions, then like

841
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 5: charges are going to repel. If it has a different

842
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 5: set of dimensions, then like charges are going to attract.

843
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 5: And it's almost like it sort of goes by the

844
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 5: odd or evenness of the number of dimensions.

845
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And you know the explanation we game earlier, like, well,

846
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: this is just sort of what we see, you know,

847
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: it's not just descriptive. Like we put together as simple

848
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: as possible an explanation for all the pushing and pulling

849
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: that we've seen, and it works together kind of beautifully.

850
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: It's really compact, it's simple, it tells a really compelling story,

851
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: and there's some restrictions to it. You can't just build

852
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: any quantum field theory you want. They don't all work.

853
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: These are the ones that work and that do explain

854
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: what we see. So in that sense, maybe we are

855
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: revealing something that's true about the universe. This is what's

856
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: actually happening behind the scenes. Maybe charge is real and

857
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: it's part of these particles. We'll never really know, of course,

858
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: any more than we know if there's aliens out there

859
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: or Bigfoot exists. But it's a very compelling story we're

860
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: telling about how it works.

861
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, because it's sort of based on the math. If

862
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 5: the dimensionality, how many dimensions the force has, then like

863
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 5: charges repel. If it's even, then the like charges attract.

864
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 5: That's kind of a fundamental thing about the universe, right yea.

865
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 5: Does it ties math to what we see and experience

866
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 5: in our everyday lives.

867
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's what I was trying to say earlier,

868
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: is that there's only a few ways to build these theories.

869
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: It's not like you can just build any theory you like,

870
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: so you have an infinite number of possible explanations. There's

871
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: a lot of constraints on making these theories work, so

872
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: they don't break down. They don't make nonsense predictions. They

873
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: also agree with everything we've seen. And so what we've

874
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: seen is that the universe really constrains us rules for

875
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,479
Speaker 1: how you can build these theories mathematically. And that's why

876
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: seeing something work in the mathematics is often a really

877
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: big hint that it might reflect something in the universe.

878
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: And so that's why we hope that by exploring the

879
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: mathematics of these theories, we're actually investigating what's happening behind

880
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: the scenes in the universe.

881
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, So then the answer for Column and

882
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 5: Column's class and for everyone out there is that like

883
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 5: charges repel in electromagnetism because of the number of dimensions

884
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 5: that the electromagnetic forces seem to operate in. If the

885
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 5: electromagnetic force is operated in a different set of dimensions

886
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 5: or number of dimensions, then like charges would do the opposite.

887
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 5: They would attract each other.

888
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: Exactly like they do with the Higgs field and like

889
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: they do with gravity.

890
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 5: All right, Well, everyone gets an a.

891
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: Extra credit on the house all around.

892
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 5: Well, if you sat through that whole explanation and that discussion,

893
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 5: I think everyone deserves an a What do you.

894
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: Think at least a frozen banana yeah, yeah, ana frozen banana.

895
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, well, thank you Calm, and thank you

896
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 5: Colin's teacher for bringing this up. It's great to know

897
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 5: there are high schoolers out there that are curious about

898
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 5: these things, and they're drilling in to the nuances and

899
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 5: having questions about very basic things.

900
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And it also shows you how easy and

901
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: common it is to ask simple questions that have tricky answers.

902
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: We don't really know the answers too. Now, this is

903
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: a pretty basic question, and the answers are a little

904
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: bit slippery and philosophical and mathematical. So you're right there

905
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: at the edge of our knowledge and our understanding.

906
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 5: All right, Well, let's get to our last question of today,

907
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 5: and this one is pretty dramatic and pretty intense. It's

908
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 5: about destroying the moon, maybe to save humankind. So let's

909
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 5: dig into that question. But first, let's take another quick break.

910
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth,

911
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greeky yogurt, you're probably

912
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

913
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are us. Dairy

914
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

915
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

916
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

917
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

918
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four times.

919
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: The same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn,

920
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy tackling greenhouse gases?

921
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from

922
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and

923
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice

924
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that

925
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: dairy farmers and processors around the country are using the

926
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 1: latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense dairy

927
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: products we love with less of an impact. Visit usdairy

928
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

929
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

930
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: the roads every day. Remember they are real people with love,

931
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: the ones who need them to get home safely. Protect

932
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too. Go Safely

933
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934
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,759
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952
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968
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Speaker 5: All right, we're answering questions from listeners, or at least

969
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 5: the question is that Daniel feels like answering.

970
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: I answer all the questions. I just elevate some of

971
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: them to the podcast.

972
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 5: Oh oh, this is elevating the questions. Interesting, I thought

973
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 5: it was lowering them.

974
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: You're thinking your contribution to these is lowering our answers

975
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: to them.

976
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 5: Possibly. Yeah, we're covering in with the Hershy's chocolate. But

977
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 5: our last question here comes from Kim from Toronto.

978
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 7: Hi, Daniel and Jorge. This is Kim from Toronto in Canada.

979
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 7: I know how much you enjoy answering ethics and physics

980
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 7: questions from aspiring evil villains, So I have a question

981
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 7: for the two of you. If climate change is melting

982
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 7: the ice caps and forcing sea levels to rise at

983
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 7: the equator, could this effect be offset at the equator

984
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 7: by destroying the Moon safely, of course, so nobody gets hurt.

985
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 7: And since more of the Earth's population is closer to

986
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 7: the equator than the poles, would this potentially save the

987
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 7: lives of those who are currently living in zones which

988
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 7: would flood if the sea levels rise. And a question

989
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 7: for Jorge, if I were to single handedly destroy the

990
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 7: Moon in order to save millions of lives, would this

991
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 7: make me a hero or a villain?

992
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 5: All right? A bit of a scary question here from Kim.

993
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 5: I'm not even sure what to make of this question

994
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 5: or what it even means, Like, how do you tie

995
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 5: destroying the moon to saving the planet?

996
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: Well? I do like the creativity here, Like, we're facing

997
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: some issues people, let's think about out of the box solutions.

998
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 5: Right, that's right, we have the problem of climate change.

999
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 5: Obviously the easiest thing is to destroy the moon.

1000
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the easiest thing or even

1001
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: on the top ten easiest solutions to climate change, but

1002
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to think about.

1003
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 5: Okay. So I think what Kim is thinking here is

1004
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 5: that climate change is the thing, and one of the

1005
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 5: consequences of climate change are rising sea levels, which is

1006
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 5: a problem. Maybe not if you're in Montana or in Siberia,

1007
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 5: but if you're in a coastal city then it's sort

1008
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 5: of a problem. And if the sea levels rise, and

1009
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 5: it's going to cost a lot of chaos and instability

1010
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 5: for billions of people, which is bad news for everybody.

1011
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 5: And so I think Kim is thinking, like, oh, rising

1012
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 5: sea levels, that sounds like something related to tides, and

1013
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 5: tides are related to the moon. What if we destroy

1014
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 5: the moon, will that solve the consequences of climate change?

1015
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: Right?

1016
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 5: I think that's what Kim is trying to propose here.

1017
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the idea or the hope is that

1018
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: you could mitigate the impact of rising sea levels by

1019
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: minimizing the tides. Like, yeah, maybe the ocean is going up,

1020
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: but the worst is when the ocean goes up and

1021
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 1: you have high tides. If your tides aren't as higher,

1022
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: if you can remove the tides, then the ocean doesn't

1023
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: rise as much. And so you're somehow mitigating the rise

1024
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: in sea levels by preventing these swings in the ocean depth.

1025
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 5: Right, right, Because I imagine that Kim has figured it

1026
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 5: out that if you remove the moon, that doesn't mean

1027
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 5: that the sea levels go down. It just means that

1028
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 5: they don't go up and down.

1029
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. They don't go up and down,

1030
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: and so they're not as high, right. I think that's

1031
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: the point.

1032
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 5: The highs are not as high and the lows are

1033
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 5: not as low. You eliminate the variation of the tides,

1034
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 5: which helps. It doesn't solve the rising sea levels because

1035
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 5: the average sea level will still rise.

1036
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: That's right.

1037
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 5: Maybe the high tide will be as bad as it

1038
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 5: would be if you had the moon.

1039
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: Exactly and this relies on the sort of a simple

1040
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: model of the tides, where the Moon is pulling on

1041
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: the water and making it deeper here and narrower there,

1042
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: and so it's making higher tides and lower tides. And

1043
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 1: it's true that the tides can be very large and

1044
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: quite variable. You know, in someplace around the world, the

1045
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: tides can be like, you know, more than ten meters,

1046
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: So it can definitely be very dramatic.

1047
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 5: Wait, you mean like in some places it can go

1048
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 5: up and down ten meters.

1049
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, tides could be very very dramatic.

1050
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 5: Where is it? Ten meters is a lot thirty feet?

1051
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: It is? I looked at a map of the tidal

1052
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: variations and it's sort of surprising. It's not focused on

1053
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: the equators. You know, there's like the inlet under Alaska

1054
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: is very dramatic. Actually, the waters just to the west

1055
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: of Central America have some of the strongest tides. Up

1056
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 1: near the northern coast of Europe has very strong tides.

1057
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't just vary on latitude. Tides in the end

1058
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: are influenced by the moon, but there's lots of other

1059
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: important factors like the shape of the coast and the

1060
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 1: depth of the water, how the water likes to slash around,

1061
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: the temperature of the water, lots of things affect the

1062
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: amplitude of the tides.

1063
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 5: Oh so then what does that mean. Does that mean

1064
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 5: that if you eliminated the moon you would still get tides.

1065
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 1: That's also true because the Sun contributes like a third

1066
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: of the tidal forces. So if you eliminated the moons,

1067
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: you would reduce the tides, though it wouldn't be concentrated

1068
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: necessarily at the equator. But if you liminated the moon,

1069
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 1: you would still have tithes because the Sun also causes

1070
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: tides and a slightly different pattern of course than the moon,

1071
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: but you wouldn't get rid of them by destroying the moon.

1072
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 5: Yeah. I remember we had a whole episode about ties

1073
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 5: and it was kind of complicated.

1074
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: It's very complicated. You know, people have been trying to

1075
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: understand this for a long time, and Newton had the

1076
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 1: first model based on you know, gravity pulling on the water.

1077
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: But that's just one part of it. That's just like

1078
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: the input, that's how much gravity is pushing on the water.

1079
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: You also have to understand how the water responds, Like

1080
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: if you sit in your bathtub and you push on

1081
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: the water to make a wave, you make a wave,

1082
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: the water doesn't just bend under your hand and stay there.

1083
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: So you have to understand the water's response, all the

1084
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: wave equations to really understand how the tides are formed.

1085
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: It's very, very complicated. These days, we have a really

1086
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: solid understanding of it, though, which is why you can

1087
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: like look up the tides anywhere on Earth pretty far

1088
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: in the future and get a pretty good prediction.

1089
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 5: Of it, right, although I hear the accuracy of that

1090
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 5: kind of goes up and down on when you look

1091
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 5: or where the moon is. I think what you're saying

1092
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 5: is that Kim's plan would work sort of like if

1093
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 5: you took out the moon, you wouldn't totally eliminate the tides,

1094
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 5: but you would maybe eliminate two thirds of the tide,

1095
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 5: which is sort of Kim's plant.

1096
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: You would eliminate two thirds of the tides, but it

1097
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't have the most impact in the coastal areas. It

1098
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: would have the most impact other places on Earth, which

1099
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: is still helpful. Right, everybody would benefit from having lower

1100
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: ocean levels or lower highs. I suppose, Wait, what do

1101
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: you mean it wouldn't affect the equator? You're saying, but

1102
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: tides affect the coastal areas. Right, tide affects the coastal areas.

1103
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: But where around the world those tides are most dramatic

1104
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: is not in the equator? Depends on the shape of

1105
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: the continents and all sorts of stuff. If you google

1106
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: like a tide map, you'll see these red hotspots where

1107
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: the tides are most dramatic, and they are not along

1108
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: the equator. So if he's looking to focus his efforts

1109
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: and help people along the equator, tides are not the

1110
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: way to do it.

1111
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not sure Kim actually is that concern about

1112
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 5: people in the quator, and specifically, I think he's just

1113
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 5: concerned about the overall consequences of climate change. And you're

1114
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 5: saying it wouldn't be focused on the equator. It would

1115
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 5: sort of spread out all over in weird places. But

1116
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 5: if you did eliminate the moon, it would lower the

1117
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 5: ups and downs with the tide.

1118
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would. It wouldn't reduce the tides, but of

1119
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: course you're also contributing lots of other potential knock on

1120
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: problems from getting rid of the moon, which does much

1121
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: more than just provide tides.

1122
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 5: What do you mean like, what other effects would removing

1123
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 5: the moon have?

1124
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: Well, the moon is crucial for lots of ecosystems. You know,

1125
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: provides light at certain times of night at certain parts

1126
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: of the month. Predators rely on the moon for hunting

1127
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 1: at night. There's a lot of biological things that are

1128
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: linked to the moon. You know, a lot of our

1129
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: cycles are linked to the moon for lots of reasons.

1130
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: So you get rid of the moon, it could have

1131
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: difficult to predict impact on ecosystems.

1132
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 5: Mmm. I think my question is why would you even

1133
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 5: destroy the moon?

1134
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: That's the engineering you man.

1135
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 5: Let's say you like obliterated. It wouldn't all those rocks

1136
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 5: fall on Earth and kills all which I make climate

1137
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 5: change a small problem.

1138
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely, you'd have to do this safely. I've actually

1139
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: read that novel Seven Eves where their moon is destroyed

1140
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: and rains down rocks on the Earth. Super interesting. You know,

1141
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: instead of destroying the Moon, you can just like push

1142
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 1: it out into space. You don't actually have to destroy it.

1143
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 5: Oh whoa, whoa. Interesting, Like just attach some rockets into

1144
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 5: it and have it just been out of control and

1145
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 5: shoot off Earth. Yeah, exactly what kind of energy would

1146
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 5: that take?

1147
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: A lot of energy. If you want to do it quickly,

1148
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 1: if you want to do it gradually and you're happy

1149
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: to wait millions of years, then you know a low

1150
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: rocket thrust could do it. In fact, we're already losing

1151
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: the moon, right. It gets further and further away from

1152
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: us by like a centimeter per year. So Kim could

1153
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: also just wait a few million.

1154
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 5: Years and then we'll all be dead from other things.

1155
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 5: I wonder if you can take all the CO two

1156
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 5: on Earth, right, take it to the Moon, build some

1157
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 5: sort of engine with that, and then you solve two problems.

1158
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there you go. There's the engineering you But

1159
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: you know you're always creating other problems when you're disturbing

1160
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,919
Speaker 1: the system like the moon does again, even more than

1161
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: like helping predators find prey, it also stabilizes the Earth's spin.

1162
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: The Earth spins off axis, right, so it's a little

1163
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 1: bit unstable at wobbles a little bit, and they think

1164
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: that the Moon helps stabilize that wobble, like absorbs some

1165
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: of that angular momentum. And without a big moon, the

1166
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: Earth's axis might tilt more and more until eventually it's

1167
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: tilted all the way over on its side. The way

1168
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: Urinus is whoa.

1169
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 5: Well, in that case, maybe Kim will come out with the

1170
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 5: idea to make a moon to tilt this bag. I

1171
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 5: mean it. Kime seems to have pretty big ideas.

1172
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll solve one problem, create another one, then solve

1173
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: that one create a bigger problem. I see where this

1174
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 1: is going.

1175
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, Kim has a second part of

1176
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 5: the question, which is, if Kim manages to destroy the

1177
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 5: moon and save people's lives, would make them a.

1178
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: Hero or a villain? Yeah? And this question specifically for you?

1179
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wonder why specifically for me, am I the

1180
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 5: ultimate judge people's actions.

1181
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: I think Kim recognized that you have a deeper appreciation

1182
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: of like comic book superhero lore.

1183
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 5: Oh, I see, I see interesting. Interesting. I guess it

1184
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 5: depends on several things. Does Kim have a doctorate?

1185
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 9: Do you.

1186
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 5: Know most villains are called doctor something?

1187
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 4: Oh?

1188
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: Interesting?

1189
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 5: Does Kim wear a cape and a hood? That makes

1190
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 5: a big difference.

1191
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, we'll get that to Kim's PR department right away.

1192
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 5: Well, I think it depends maybe on the ultimate effect

1193
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 5: of Kim's actions. You know, maybe Kim will save millions

1194
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 5: of lives now, but in the long run, make the

1195
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 5: Earth the worst place to live interesting, in which case

1196
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 5: he'd be like a tragic hero.

1197
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: So we're responsible for the unintended consequences of our actions.

1198
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 5: I'm saying, and we would all suffer from the unintended

1199
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 5: consequences of Kim's actions.

1200
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: Well, if this podcast is attracting aliens to Earth and

1201
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: they come and they kill us, all, are we then villains?

1202
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 5: Only? That was your intent all along.

1203
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: Daniel, I'm going to no comment on that one.

1204
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 5: Sounds like a yes.

1205
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: No comment to that as well, that's what a supervillain

1206
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: would say. Then supervillain has a super team of lawyers,

1207
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: and that's what they advise.

1208
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, superheroes don't have lawyers. They're honest and forthright.

1209
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: There you go, Kim, So if you have a lawyer,

1210
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: you're a villain.

1211
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, although Kim has been pretty forthright about their plans,

1212
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 5: so maybe. Yeah, I'm very confused. I'm very confused ethically here. Yes,

1213
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 5: I'm hoping for hero I'm pushing for hero in this one.

1214
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1215
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 5: All right, Well we're all cheering for you, Kim and

1216
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 5: your plan to destroy the moon. Maybe it'd be easier

1217
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 5: if we just cut carbon dioxide emissions. Yeah, it sounds

1218
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 5: like a like an easier path here. All right, Well

1219
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 5: that's the answer for Kim, and I think that means

1220
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 5: that we've answered all the questions to stick.

1221
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: That's right, we have, and we love your questions. We

1222
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: love thinking about them, we love talking about them, we

1223
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: love answering them. If you have questions about how the

1224
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: universe works and you want to hear us talking about them,

1225
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: please to me two questions at Danielhorgey dot com.

1226
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, whichever question you sent in, Daniel will give you

1227
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 5: an A and a banana.

1228
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: Covered in chocolate. Yes, digital frozen banana covered in chocolate,

1229
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: covered in digital chocolate.

1230
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 5: All right, Well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

1231
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 5: joining us. See you next time. For more science and curiosity,

1232
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 5: come find us on social media where we answer questions

1233
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 5: and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discorg, Instant, and now TikTok.

1234
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1235
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 5: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1236
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 5: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1237
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 5: you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop a

1238
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 5: piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking

1239
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Speaker 5: about the environmental impact, but the people in the dairy

1240
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Speaker 5: industry are. That's why they're working hard every day to

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1247
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1248
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1253
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Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on paths

1254
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Speaker 2: and roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

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Speaker 1: Get home safely.

1257
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Speaker 2: Protect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too.

1258
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Speaker 1: Go safely.

1259
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