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Speaker 2: So, I mean, tell us a story about your high
Speaker 2: school wrestling team that saw some kind of strange object.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well thanks. So this is what's really interesting about it, Georgia.
Speaker 3: You know, I've been interested in these topics now for
Speaker 3: several decades, but it was just a few years ago
Speaker 3: that a friend of mine, Dominic, who I've known since
Speaker 3: kindergarten in the New York area, told me that he
Speaker 3: was in contact with the wrestling coach from our high
Speaker 3: school years back in the eighties, and that he had
Speaker 3: learned of a UFO siding by the wrestling team of
Speaker 3: my class I think I would have been in tenth
Speaker 3: grade back then, that they had had a sighting coming
Speaker 3: out of a wrestling match on a Saturday afternoon of
Speaker 3: Marnich High School and over the high school about a
Speaker 3: half mile up or so, they saw and this is
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine, by the way, before the Hudson Valley.
Speaker 3: Trying go with something that had really been seen very much,
Speaker 3: they saw a black triangle hovering over Maronick High School.
Speaker 3: Apparently my classmates, one of them said it was the
Speaker 3: scariest thing he'd ever seen in his life. And Vinny,
Speaker 3: who was a high school wrestling coach at the time,
Speaker 3: actually said that planes came out of from the direction
Speaker 3: of Connecticut and chased this black triangle, which he said
Speaker 3: took off like the Starship Enterprise on warp speed that
Speaker 3: was the direction of New Jersey and just totally outpaced
Speaker 3: these Vietnam era fighter planes. This is nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 3: And he called the police, and the police said, yes,
Speaker 3: we've had other calls come in, and there's a blackout
Speaker 3: in the four towns right now around your area. And
Speaker 3: just recently, Dominic went to one of the local libraries
Speaker 3: looked on microfiche for newspapers from that time and found
Speaker 3: two articles completely rein sporting of any story. I've reproduced
Speaker 3: some of those articles right in the book. So it's amazing.
Speaker 3: Forty years later you're finding out what your classmates in
Speaker 3: high school saw. Mean, how long did it take George
Speaker 3: for these stories to these cosccounts to come out?
Speaker 2: Why are some people so afraid to come forward with
Speaker 2: their information.
Speaker 3: People do not like to be accused of being strange
Speaker 3: or weird, at least most people, right, and we have
Speaker 3: this fear. I think it's some sort of mammalian fear,
Speaker 3: a part of being in a group, that we're going
Speaker 3: to be expelled from the group if we say we've
Speaker 3: seen something that is not considered to be part of
Speaker 3: our training of what you've been taught to be real
Speaker 3: formal reality. And so if you say you've seen something
Speaker 3: that you know we've been trained to laugh at, your
Speaker 3: subject to ridicual and hostility, you know, and most people
Speaker 3: don't want to experience that, so they choose to not
Speaker 3: share their stories. So you just have to wonder how
Speaker 3: many witnesses are out there to these phenomena like Coach Vinny,
Speaker 3: who have never shared their story, or maybe just with
Speaker 3: a few people. A lot of these stories I've heard
Speaker 3: have come from children of people who've been in the military.
Speaker 3: Their parents were in the military, and they only heard
Speaker 3: about this story, perhaps because dad had a little much
Speaker 3: too much to drink at the barbecue and then never
Speaker 3: wanted to talk about it again, or something like that.
Speaker 3: Though I am a feeling there's thousands and thousands of
Speaker 3: witness stories we haven't heard yet that we will eventually.
Speaker 2: Saman do you believe that disclosure is critical?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to happen at some point in our lifetimes.
Speaker 3: I don't see any other way around it. It may
Speaker 3: not happen as quickly as we might have thought it
Speaker 3: would happen, and it happens at different levels. George. It's
Speaker 3: not just perhaps the government coming forward with some sort
Speaker 3: of castor or congressional hearings and witnesses. I think it's
Speaker 3: a part of us that has to perhaps recognize that
Speaker 3: we've had experiences that we may have forgotten or did
Speaker 3: not want to remember, because we have very strong psychological
Speaker 3: defense mechanisms. And this was discussed in a recent film,
Speaker 3: A Flash of Beauty, Big Pot Reveal. I was in
Speaker 3: the sequel called Paranoral Bigfoot, but before that they just
Speaker 3: had this first film, Big put Revealed, and they had
Speaker 3: these psychologists talking about how people don't remember their experiences
Speaker 3: with sas elect Bigfoot, and I think the same thing
Speaker 3: applies to UFOs too. I think many of us may
Speaker 3: have had experiences and it could be brief, or it
Speaker 3: just could be something your brain is very good at
Speaker 3: deleting things, and it could be something that your brain
Speaker 3: has simply chosen to forget until there comes a time
Speaker 3: when society says, we want to hear about your experience,
Speaker 3: and it becomes something that acceptable and open, and we're
Speaker 3: having a lot more witnesses come forward in front of
Speaker 3: Congress and perhaps we'll remember experiences that we hadn't until
Speaker 3: that time.
Speaker 2: How did crop formations enter your picture?
Speaker 3: Well, that's a really interesting part of this story because
Speaker 3: that's my first contact with crop circles. Happened through a
Speaker 3: remote viewing session. It was a remote viewing target that
Speaker 3: we were given as our second to two in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety six. George, I had never heard the word crop circles.
Speaker 3: I was just sort of recently out of grad school,
Speaker 3: so you know that people don't talk about such things
Speaker 3: an academic. I had never heard about this, But here
Speaker 3: was my target feedback. I had done the RB session for,
Speaker 3: you know, just for the listeners. You don't get your
Speaker 3: feedback until you're done with the session. You don't know
Speaker 3: what you're viewing. So I saw this picture of this
Speaker 3: formation in wheat and the UK, I got curious, what
Speaker 3: are these? You know, these structures? So I went on
Speaker 3: a cropsicle tour with a guy named Ron Russell from
Speaker 3: the Denver area of who I admitted at a UFO
Speaker 3: conference in the Denver area, and I found that there
Speaker 3: were really, you know, again going in just neutraally with
Speaker 3: no particular expectations, that there were really strange experiences around
Speaker 3: these cropsicles. People were seeing UFOs uap around them, orbs
Speaker 3: vaults of light, and especially the camera and battery failure,
Speaker 3: which is something that I experienced a lot subsequently with
Speaker 3: groups I went to. It took over there on crop
Speaker 3: circle tours. So that sort of became part of all
Speaker 3: of these phenomena for me, just because there were these
Speaker 3: similar effects people had around a UFOs and similar for
Speaker 3: not which is you know, batteries not working, cameras not working,
Speaker 3: you know, strange electromagnetic effects. And that's what really kind
Speaker 3: of pulled me into the subject matter.
Speaker 2: When they did the analysis of some of the crops
Speaker 2: that were bent down, they showed some very strange things,
Speaker 2: didn't they.
Speaker 3: They did. But the really weird thing about it, George,
Speaker 3: was that we were when we started making experimental circles
Speaker 3: ourselves because we got curious if people could even do these,
Speaker 3: and we would and I documented this in a recent
Speaker 3: YouTube video I put up just last week on my channel.
Speaker 3: You know, we started finding farmers that would make us
Speaker 3: let us make experimental circles on their property. We found
Speaker 3: some of the strange effects, not all of them, but
Speaker 3: some of them, including the bent nodes and some of
Speaker 3: the strange electromagnetic effects on our cameras, even in the
Speaker 3: ones we made, which led me to think that even
Speaker 3: there though there is original phenomena. I mean, I've talked
Speaker 3: to witnesses and one of them is in black swin ghost,
Speaker 3: a woman named Luis Bobez who saw a flying disc
Speaker 3: in US Washington in the seventies, you know, flatten a meadow,
Speaker 3: And there's many witnesses to such type of experience where
Speaker 3: they see the disc create either a circle or effective plants.
Speaker 3: We found that even the ones that we made had
Speaker 3: some of the strange effects that people had attributed to
Speaker 3: the so called original phenomena, which isn't made by people.
Speaker 3: So what that led me to think is there's something
Speaker 3: about the more tech like shape of some of these
Speaker 3: circles which makes them electromagnetically active, which is an interesting discovery.
Speaker 2: What do you think the crop circles are for? What's
Speaker 2: their purpose? Are they giving us messages? What are they
Speaker 2: trying to do?
Speaker 3: I don't know if their messages directly, but they seem
Speaker 3: to be like the imparent of a type of non
Speaker 3: ordinary matter. I think in physics we call this coherent matter.
Speaker 3: There is a whole range of electromagnetic processes which is
Speaker 3: way outside of the ordinary types of electromagnetism that Maxwell
Speaker 3: was familiar with. Saturday and Maxwell we're familiar with. These
Speaker 3: are extensions of Maxwell's equations that lead to troidal shapes
Speaker 3: and different types of magnetism magnetic monopoles. And I've always
Speaker 3: thought that a lot of the circles, even in the
Speaker 3: early days George, had something to do with this sort
Speaker 3: of non ordinary m field. So I wouldn't say they're
Speaker 3: necessarily a type of communication directly. I know people see
Speaker 3: it that way. It's more like they're the imprint of
Speaker 3: anomalous electromagnetic fields, whether that's a plasma or a UFO
Speaker 3: or an orb or something like that.
Speaker 2: With all this going on, to me, and have you
Speaker 2: given the thoughts about the Big Bang and how it
Speaker 2: really started, what was before and all that, because that
Speaker 2: continues to be one of the most puzzling aspects of
Speaker 2: everything I've heard.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's a good question George, because I've
Speaker 3: read recently of people even questioning the Big Bang idea
Speaker 3: that maybe there's an alternative cosmology. And I guess what
Speaker 3: I've learned from all my research into these topics is
Speaker 3: we tend to believe what we've been taught in school, right,
Speaker 3: you know, from grade school through high school college those
Speaker 3: us to go to graduate school. There's usually a time
Speaker 3: in your life where you stop questioning what's really real
Speaker 3: and you just accept what you've been taught and what
Speaker 3: all these subjects that you and I are talking about
Speaker 3: right now, what that's taught me is you need to
Speaker 3: reevaluate everything because what you learned as a kid might
Speaker 3: just be dogma. In other words, you accepted it because
Speaker 3: so many people repeated it, you know, so many of
Speaker 3: your teachers and magazines you read, and the news stations
Speaker 3: repeated it. The Big Bang. I mean, so far, what
Speaker 3: I can see, George, it seems to add up in
Speaker 3: terms of what we know about dark energy and dark
Speaker 3: matter that seems to fit the Big Bang cosmology. But
Speaker 3: I'm open to, you know, like many other people the
Speaker 3: moment to other interpretations of how this wholds the universal
Speaker 3: multiverses that we live in, How it actually originated. It's
Speaker 3: a huge question. Maybe we'll never figure it out.
Speaker 2: You have a story about a top level engineer who
Speaker 2: touched some kind of material from a possible et spacecraft.
Speaker 2: What was that story all about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, George, stories like that of actual witnesses to
Speaker 3: NHI material and that's how it's referred to now ASHI
Speaker 3: non human intelligence. Right, you're familiar with this, people who've
Speaker 3: touched these materials. This is the highest level of sensitivity
Speaker 3: and classification because it's not just ideas that we're talking about.
Speaker 3: People have actually handled stuff, stuff that could have come
Speaker 3: from another part of the universe with technology that's thousands
Speaker 3: of years ahead of us. And I actually ran into
Speaker 3: this individual at a conference a few years ago. We
Speaker 3: were just at the meeting greet on the first night
Speaker 3: of this conference and just the topics of UFOs to
Speaker 3: someone said it and he just said and I was
Speaker 3: just having a little fun with this person. And this
Speaker 3: guy turned to me and said, they're real life. Handled
Speaker 3: a piece of one of them, and I said, well,
Speaker 3: you've got my attention, you know, And he proceeded to
Speaker 3: describe how some organization had come to him. This is
Speaker 3: one of the top computer engineer designers. Ever, so at
Speaker 3: some point I'd like to reveal his name. And he
Speaker 3: said that he had been asked to look at this
Speaker 3: material and as soon as he put it under an
Speaker 3: electron microscope, he realized it was about a thousand years
Speaker 3: ahead of anything we have here. The scale of it
Speaker 3: was such a small denometer or scale that's so much
Speaker 3: smaller than anything we can design. He said it had
Speaker 3: been designed at him by Adam and that it was
Speaker 3: the hull of the craft that he had been handed
Speaker 3: to look at, a three deep piece of halls that
Speaker 3: he thought might have been from the Roswell crash. And
Speaker 3: he said it was made of isotope, you know, ratios
Speaker 3: of chemical elements that you don't find on Earth. In
Speaker 3: those particular ratios, it was from another part of the galaxy.
Speaker 3: Of the technology was about a thousand years ahead of
Speaker 3: our technology, and he said it had to be extraterrestrial
Speaker 3: because we don't have anything like that on Earth. And
Speaker 3: he said, you know, he said, I would know because
Speaker 3: I've designed the stuff at you know, at the leading
Speaker 3: edge of what we can do, and this is way
Speaker 3: beyond anything I can do. So that was his conclusion.
Speaker 3: And when people like that, George, come in front of
Speaker 3: Congress and tell us what they know. That's when we're
Speaker 3: going to have to that's my feeling about it. Until
Speaker 3: that time, we won't. But people like that are very
Speaker 3: well known, they have a lot of credibility, and they're
Speaker 3: completely convinced this is extraterrestrial material.
Speaker 2: What do your colleagues say about your work?
Speaker 3: Now, My colleagues now are mostly people outside of theology,
Speaker 3: but I can tell you from the few times I
Speaker 3: have presented this sort of material at sociology conferences, it's
Speaker 3: been well accepted because sociologists know that there are things
Speaker 3: that are true that haven't been officially recognized yet, so
Speaker 3: they're open to the idea that what's actually real is
Speaker 3: not necessarily what we've been told to be real. There's
Speaker 3: a bigger story, and that you have to talk to
Speaker 3: witnesses and do participate observation about all of this. So
Speaker 3: it's been actually pretty well received by people in sociology.
Speaker 3: But overall, controversy is part of science, part of science, George,
Speaker 3: And you're well aware, no one who's really ever invented
Speaker 3: anything of any consequence at the time has ever considered
Speaker 3: totally safe.
Speaker 2: I mean, everything that we're around.
Speaker 3: Including electromagnetism and motorism, computers all at the time those
Speaker 3: things were invented. Think of the Wright Brothers. How much
Speaker 3: ridicule those people received of technologies that we considered as
Speaker 3: the part of our everyday lives. At the time, the
Speaker 3: inventors were considered to be koops. So I don't look
Speaker 3: for acceptance in any of these topics because if you
Speaker 3: just look at the history of science, no one's ever
Speaker 3: dealt into anything at the cutting edge has really had
Speaker 3: a ton of popular support until many years later. That's
Speaker 3: just sort of what you expect. It comes with the
Speaker 3: territory that kind of controversy.
Speaker 2: So it's okay, where do people pick up the book
Speaker 2: black Swan Ghosts.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I'm glad you act because the videos of
Speaker 3: testimony from these witnesses. You can watch it for free
Speaker 3: on my website Blackswan Ghosts dot com. I just put
Speaker 3: up the witness videos. You can just go right there
Speaker 3: and look for videos Blackswan Ghosts dot com. You can
Speaker 3: obviously get the book there too. It's available on Amazon,
Speaker 3: but I encourage people just to go to the black
Speaker 3: Swan ghost website so they can look at some of
Speaker 3: these witnesses, you know, as I interviewed them before I
Speaker 3: wrote the book, to make it off their mind themselves.
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