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Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jason Kelly. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we talk about the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports today. I'm joined by none other than

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Speaker 1: Joe No Sarah, columnist for Bloomberg Opinion, host of the

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Speaker 1: mega hit soon to be a movie podcast, The Shrink

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Speaker 1: next Door. It was literally the number one podcast last year.

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Speaker 1: He's also the author and this is why I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to him of Indentured, The Battle to End

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Speaker 1: the Exploitation of College Athletes, as well as All the

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Speaker 1: Devils Are Here, The Hidden History of the Financial Crisis,

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Speaker 1: and other books. He's always got a hot take. So

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Speaker 1: Joe No Sarah, first of all, so excited to talk

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Speaker 1: to you. The magic of modern technology brings us together.

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Speaker 1: I love hanging out with you in the studio, but

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Speaker 1: this is the next best thing. You know, When I

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Speaker 1: was trying to figure out what happens next, especially when

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Speaker 1: it relates to college sports, there you were on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg with your column coronavirus may make college sports sane again,

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Speaker 1: very optimistic for a guy like you who's followed this

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Speaker 1: so closely, tell me what you were thinking about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm optimistic they'll run out of money and come to

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Speaker 1: their senses. Um uh here here's um, here's what I

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Speaker 1: think could happen. A lot depends, of course, on how

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Speaker 1: much belt tightening universities have to do and and and uh.

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Speaker 1: But but number one. Uh, the minimum requirement for a

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Speaker 1: Division one school is to have sixteen teams. That's an

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Speaker 1: n c A rule sixteen teams, and obviously it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be more or less evenly divided between women's team,

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Speaker 1: women's teams, and men's teams. But um, but it's an

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Speaker 1: arbitrary number. You know that the n c A has

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Speaker 1: imposed and school a conference entire conferences have gone to

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Speaker 1: the n c A and said, look, you know, can

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Speaker 1: you at least temporarily waive this rule? And the n

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Speaker 1: c A said no, but you know, we'll grant individual

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Speaker 1: waivers if certain schools come to us and we think,

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Speaker 1: you know, you deserve to go under sixteen. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's ridiculous that the n c a A should have

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Speaker 1: the power to tell schools that are going to be

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Speaker 1: in a terrible financial bind because of the pandemic, you

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Speaker 1: know how many teams they can have so you know,

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Speaker 1: my hope number one is that as we get through

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Speaker 1: this uh stage, uh, the schools will just say, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do what we need to do, and the

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Speaker 1: n c a A can just stuff it. Um. Although

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Speaker 1: the side so far are not good. Here you have

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Speaker 1: the University of Akron, which is in terrible, terrible trouble.

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Speaker 1: It's uh, it's losing so much money that they eliminated

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Speaker 1: six six of their eleven academic colleges, so the majority.

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Speaker 1: And then they said, well, we're gonna make major cuts

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Speaker 1: in our sports Division two, in our in our athletic program.

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Speaker 1: And what did they do. They cut three minor sports

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Speaker 1: to go from nineteen to sixteen. In other words, they

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Speaker 1: didn't have the nerve to make the major cut that

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Speaker 1: would defy the n c a A A on how many

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Speaker 1: on how many teams they could have, which is crazy

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Speaker 1: if you're in that much, if you're in that much

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Speaker 1: financial trouble. Um. So that's that's that's point number one.

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Speaker 1: Point number two is you know, Ohio State is not

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Speaker 1: going to be hurt by this pandemic more more than temporarily,

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Speaker 1: but the Eastern Michigan's and the Kent States and and

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Speaker 1: the historically black colleges, they're gonna be. They're gonna be

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Speaker 1: clawberd um in their athletic departments, which don't have that

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Speaker 1: much money to begin with, and which they have long

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Speaker 1: been trying to play play with the big boys. You know,

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Speaker 1: when and and when when UH? For instance, when the

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Speaker 1: big schools, when the power five schools got the ability

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Speaker 1: to pay UH athletes, were what's called, um, gosh, I

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Speaker 1: can't even remember what it's called, but it's a differential.

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Speaker 1: It's a differential between what college costs and what their

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Speaker 1: scholarship gives. So they get a check for six or

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Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars a year or something like that. So

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Speaker 1: you know, the little schools have been doing that too.

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Speaker 1: They can't afford to do that. So what I was

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Speaker 1: kind of hoping is that the financial UH devastation wrought

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Speaker 1: by this pandemic will cause the smaller schools to say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we're just not going to compete in

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Speaker 1: football with Notre Dame anymore. It doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna downscale. We're gonna change the way we do business. UM,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna regionalize our our smaller sports so that the

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Speaker 1: tennis team isn't flying from West Virginia to Texas for

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Speaker 1: a match, which is crazy. Um, So there's all these

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Speaker 1: things that could be done that would be still allow

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Speaker 1: for athletics, still allow for competition, uh, still allow for

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Speaker 1: the fans and the student body to be excited. But

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Speaker 1: they're not trying to play with Michigan and Ohio State.

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Speaker 1: And it would be a much more sensible way to

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Speaker 1: conduct athletics. And you know, and it's it's funny. You know.

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Speaker 1: I started off by saying it it's optimistic and um

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Speaker 1: and it is to some extent. I'll stand by that

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Speaker 1: to to the to the extent that this presupposes something

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Speaker 1: that I think almost everyone agrees with, which is this

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Speaker 1: system is messed up. It is broken. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I go back to your book, which is just fantastic

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Speaker 1: indentured the battle to end the exploitation of college athletes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is not new in many ways, the dysfunction,

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Speaker 1: to put it kindly, of the of the n C

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Speaker 1: double A. And yet, as you just pointed out, the

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Speaker 1: power is still tremendous for the n C double A.

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Speaker 1: Are there any beyond coronavirus? Are there any cracks here?

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Speaker 1: Or is it consolidating power. Well, no, no, there are

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Speaker 1: there are definitely cracks. Um, They're not coming from where

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Speaker 1: you might think, I mean, unfortunately, it's not coming from

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Speaker 1: university presidents who ostensibly, you know, control the n c

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Speaker 1: A although they really don't. It's coming from state legislatures, right. So,

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Speaker 1: so the biggest crack, obviously is the name, image and

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Speaker 1: likeness legislation that is sweeping through the country one state

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Speaker 1: after another, where athletes will be allowed to take advantage

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Speaker 1: of their own name, their own likeness, and their own image,

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Speaker 1: which they should have been being able to do for decades,

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Speaker 1: and they'll be able to sign and sign autographs and

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Speaker 1: have endorsements and do commercials and all that sort of thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: that is a huge crack. And uh, the n c

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Speaker 1: a A has you know, realizes that it cannot fight

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Speaker 1: this anymore. So what's it's trying. What it's trying to

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Speaker 1: do right now is control it. It's trying to come

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Speaker 1: up with its own set of guidelines that will allow

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Speaker 1: it to sort of remain in charge of this aspect

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Speaker 1: of college sports. I don't know whether they'll succeed because

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Speaker 1: they've lost so much um juice. Uh, they're just they're

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Speaker 1: they're not really believable organization anymore. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the state legislature just saying, you know, the hell with you.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to sit around and wait for you

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Speaker 1: guys to come up with your own rules. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: pass our rules, and you know if you don't like it,

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Speaker 1: sue us um. Now that now the n c A

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Speaker 1: is going to the federal government and hoping they can

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Speaker 1: get an antitrust exemption. But I don't think that's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's gonna happen either, because for the

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Speaker 1: same reason, you know, Congress, they used to have a

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Speaker 1: lot of clout in Congress. They don't have any right now.

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Speaker 1: So are you going back to this theme of optimism.

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Speaker 1: Are you optimistic that we could see structural changes in

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Speaker 1: the NZ double A given everything that's going on, well,

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Speaker 1: structural changes in the way that I suggest, which is

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Speaker 1: that you'll wind up with I mean, if if things

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Speaker 1: went right, you'd wind up with sixty four or sixty

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Speaker 1: five major football powers concentrated in the Power five conferences

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Speaker 1: and maybe a few other schools. Right. That makes sense, Okay,

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Speaker 1: because what Ohio State does and USC does and u

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Speaker 1: c l A. Does that that that's that's not college sports.

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Speaker 1: That's major American entertainment. You know, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: multibillion dollar business. It's untouchable. And you'll also you'll have

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Speaker 1: probably maybe a hundred and fifty a hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: schools that have the ability to field a decent Division

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Speaker 1: one basketball team because basketball is a lot cheaper than football.

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Speaker 1: So a school like Providence College or Holy Cross they

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Speaker 1: could they could have Division one basketball without having a

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Speaker 1: football team, or you know, and and but but everything

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Speaker 1: else could be would be you know, downgraded a little

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Speaker 1: bit so that you're spending less money and regionalizing it.

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Speaker 1: That's hugely important because so much money gets spent on travel,

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Speaker 1: so much, so much class time gets wasted because they're

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Speaker 1: on airplanes, and and the conference realignment has really made

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Speaker 1: a mess of regionalization, and you need to recapture like

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Speaker 1: for tennis, for golf, for um, for field hockey, for

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Speaker 1: any sport other than basketball and football. You need to regionalize.

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Speaker 1: It's just it just there's nothing else makes And they

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Speaker 1: all know it, they all know it. They all know

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Speaker 1: what an imposition it is for the students, and they

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Speaker 1: all know how much money it costs, and money that

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Speaker 1: they don't really have right now. So the structural changes

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Speaker 1: that the struggle change is not you know, paying the players,

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Speaker 1: which of course I've advocated for a decade, but um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we'll take one across one bridge at

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Speaker 1: a time, right. Yeah, it is sort of bunkers that

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Speaker 1: I know enough to be dangerous about college lacrosse. And

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Speaker 1: you know the fact that Denver UH is in the

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Speaker 1: Big East sort of is hard hard to get your uh.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even I didn't even know that, but that's

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Speaker 1: a hilarious fact. It's crazy. Um. So when you talk

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Speaker 1: about college athletics, you know one thing I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you about two because candidly it is a subject

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Speaker 1: around my dinner table, having a junior in high school

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Speaker 1: who's looking to play in colleges. This whole question of eligibility.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder how much you've thought about that, extending

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Speaker 1: eligibility given the pandemic, mean, does that effect sort of

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Speaker 1: the economics, does it affect the recruiting, How does that

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Speaker 1: play through in your estimation? Knowing n C double a

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Speaker 1: sports the way you do, well, it does And that's

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Speaker 1: why the n c A A. With the exception of, um,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think what sport uh oh, the spring sports. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so athletes who play in the spring sports are being

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Speaker 1: given another semester or year of edgibility, I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: the seniors especially, But they're not doing that for this

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Speaker 1: fall sports. I mean, they're basically saying this is a

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Speaker 1: one time only thing. And UM, it will I mean,

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Speaker 1: because they don't play football or basketball in the spring.

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Speaker 1: It will have a pretty minor effect on the economics

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Speaker 1: of college sports because most of the athletes UM in

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Speaker 1: the spring sports either get no scholarship or they get

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Speaker 1: a partial scholarship. You know, baseball only has I think

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Speaker 1: eleven scholarships for the entire team, so they divvy it up. Interesting. Um,

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Speaker 1: So when you think about everything else that's sort of

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Speaker 1: going on, uh in the world. And you know, you

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Speaker 1: have written about the financial crisis, You've written about so

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Speaker 1: many different things. You know, I love talking to you

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Speaker 1: about sports. Um. You know you go back. You and

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Speaker 1: I have talked on our Business Week program before about

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Speaker 1: Boom Pickens and on all of those things. You've covered

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Speaker 1: business for so long. How are you thinking about business overall? Changing? Uh?

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Speaker 1: In the course of recovery we hope from this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy. Um, you know, I think big business won't

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Speaker 1: be harmed all that much. I mean, it's it's they're

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Speaker 1: taking a hit right now, but they can afford it.

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Speaker 1: They can they can they can handle it. Um. But

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Speaker 1: small business is going to be devastated, devastated. I predict

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Speaker 1: that when New York finally reopens, you know, maybe half

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Speaker 1: or less of the kin of the city's restaurants will survive. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, all those little shops. I mean, people

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Speaker 1: aren't going to do boutique shopping for a while, and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be afraid to go into stores. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, Amazon is going to do great

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Speaker 1: and and I mean I don't even know how many

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Speaker 1: cars people are gonna want to buy in the short term, um,

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Speaker 1: because they're not driving around as much. But um, I think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think we're going to have huge, huge

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Speaker 1: economic downturn because of this lock because of the way

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Speaker 1: we've handled this virus, with with the with the lockdown

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Speaker 1: and with basically shutting down the country. Um. I'm not

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Speaker 1: I'm not optimistic about this. Um. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: if your IBM, you'll be fine. If your Xerox, you'll

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Speaker 1: be fine. If you're um, you know Amazon, you'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: But if you're if you're the if you're Danny Myers,

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Speaker 1: if you're Danny Meyer and you have the you know

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Speaker 1: these these half these dozen high end restaurants all around

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Speaker 1: New York and elsewhere, you've got a big problem. Yeah. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting to to think about to go

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Speaker 1: back to the colleges for a second, this notion of

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Speaker 1: exactly what you said, not just from a sports perspective,

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Speaker 1: but from a college perspective. If you are a big,

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Speaker 1: wealthy institution, higher educational institution, you're probably gonna be okay.

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Speaker 1: But they're going to be colleges that just straight up

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Speaker 1: go out of business. Here right there are gonna be

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Speaker 1: some okay. So here's what's happening in the college. It's

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Speaker 1: funny you should mention in that because I just wrote

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Speaker 1: something about that for Business Week. Um, we're getting a preview.

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Speaker 1: I like it. Okay. So, so colleges depend on tuition. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Colleges know that students and parents hate online learning, and

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Speaker 1: they had to do it this semester because they had

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Speaker 1: no choice. But they are not going to start the

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Speaker 1: fall most schools with UM with online learning, and you

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Speaker 1: already seeing it. A number of produced announced they're going

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Speaker 1: to open. Boston College has announced that, Notre Dame has

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Speaker 1: announced that, Columbia has announced it. Schools are going to

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Speaker 1: open their campuses, and they might do some social distancing

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Speaker 1: and wearing a mask and that sort of thing, but

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Speaker 1: they are going to open their campuses because they can't

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Speaker 1: afford to lose that tuition. And so uh if if

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Speaker 1: all the schools open, the number of failures might be

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Speaker 1: fairly small. But any school it says we're going to

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Speaker 1: start the fall with line learning is risking going out

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Speaker 1: of business because all of the students are all going

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Speaker 1: to take a gap here and they won't have any tuition.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, like Purdue, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: what I didn't quite realize that Produce produce revenue total

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Speaker 1: revenue is one point nine billion dollars. Of that amount,

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Speaker 1: they get one point three billion from tuition. Holy smokes.

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Speaker 1: So no wonder they they're going to open the campus.

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Speaker 1: What choice do they have? And you know, it's another

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Speaker 1: it's a really interesting example of uh A institutions weighing

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Speaker 1: the risk reward calculation. So is there a risk that

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Speaker 1: could be an outbreak of COVID, Yeah, sure there is,

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Speaker 1: but they have to take that risk if they want

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Speaker 1: to remain alive. And so what does that do for sports?

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's bring it back to sports. I mean,

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Speaker 1: are we going to see college football this year? And

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Speaker 1: former fashion? I believe we are. Um you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this, but Mike Pence had

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Speaker 1: a meeting maybe three weeks ago, maybe a month ago

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Speaker 1: have to have football. We have to have football in

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Speaker 1: the fall. The country needs it. And the commissioners basically said, look,

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Speaker 1: if we don't have students on campus, we are not

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Speaker 1: going to have football. We are not going to have

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Speaker 1: the football team being the only students on the campus.

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Speaker 1: That would just be you know, that would that would

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Speaker 1: that would move the hypocrisy meter up by about so.

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Speaker 1: But but now you see schools are going back and

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Speaker 1: so I think what I think I think is the

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Speaker 1: likeliest scenario is that instead of starting the football practices

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Speaker 1: in early August, they'll start it later and they might

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Speaker 1: push the season back two or three weeks as well, um,

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Speaker 1: just a just a try to get the virus, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, try to see if it's really dampened down. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I do, I do strongly believe that we'll see

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Speaker 1: football with fans in the stands are now probably not yeah,

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Speaker 1: at least not at first. UM. Or you could limit

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Speaker 1: the fans, you know, one every third seed or four seed,

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Speaker 1: which is also kind of weird. Right. Yeah, well, you

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Speaker 1: know it's almost a sure thing that, um, if basketball

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Speaker 1: starts up again this year, there won't be any fans

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Speaker 1: in the stand there's a lot of pressure for that

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Speaker 1: to happen. Right, And so what do you make of

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Speaker 1: the sort of all the pro sports debating sort of

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Speaker 1: how and when to come back? I mean, we're obviously

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Speaker 1: all watching baseball to to a large extent, those of

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Speaker 1: us at a certain age who you know, still watch baseball,

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Speaker 1: although I feel like when I talked to people twenty

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Speaker 1: years younger than me, it's it's almost like talking to

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Speaker 1: them about cricket. But we'll set that aside for for

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Speaker 1: another time. But you know, Major League Baseball, NBA, you know,

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Speaker 1: still wants to finish it season. National Football League, uh,

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Speaker 1: still talking about doing something. How does this work? Out well. Um.

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Speaker 1: In football especially, uh, you could you you can economically,

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Speaker 1: you can justify economically playing with no no people in

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Speaker 1: the skins because the television revenue is so huge. Um,

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Speaker 1: So you know, they might not be as profitable as

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Speaker 1: they have been. It might even be a break even

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Speaker 1: operation without fans. But they could do it. Um. Baseball

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Speaker 1: is a much tougher situation because baseball do have a

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Speaker 1: national contract, um. So much of baseball is built around

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Speaker 1: regional um sports television and there's not the same amount

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Speaker 1: of money and they're much more dependent on the gate.

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Speaker 1: So for baseball to have empty stands, yes, they could

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Speaker 1: do it, but it would be much more of a hardship,

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Speaker 1: uh than it would be for football. But you know,

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Speaker 1: they're all talking about it, and they're all trying to

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Speaker 1: figure this out. And what they're really all hoping is

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Speaker 1: that by the end of the summer, you know, most

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Speaker 1: vestiges of the virus will have gone away. UM. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that will happen or not. And and

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Speaker 1: the one thing I've learned about viruses is I've been

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Speaker 1: reading and writing about it, is they come in waves.

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Speaker 1: So just because it ends in August doesn't mean it's

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Speaker 1: not going to come back with a fury in October. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll really see what happens. How's this been

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Speaker 1: for you? Like in the I'm ready to say um,

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Speaker 1: because it's actually been fine. I'm one of I'm one

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Speaker 1: of the lucky ones. I've got a place in Southampton.

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Speaker 1: My son seems to be enjoying. Um. He gets to

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Speaker 1: play with his friends on Fortnite every every night, and

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Speaker 1: and and to face time with them, and he gets

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Speaker 1: to play basketball at the court next door, and play

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Speaker 1: with the dog in the backyard. And my wife and

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Speaker 1: I were able to get a lot of work done,

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Speaker 1: so no problems. And I'm being better because my wife

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Speaker 1: has been cooking up a storm. Well that's good alright.

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Speaker 1: So you said next door, you said Southampton, So that

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Speaker 1: gives me a natural bridge uh into the Shrink next door. Uh.

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Speaker 1: For those of you who apparently weren't sentient last year.

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Speaker 1: Uh and listening to podcasts number one podcast last year,

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Speaker 1: The Shrink next Door coming soon to a screen near you.

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Speaker 1: Give us an update on Marty and Ira. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: um number one. The hearings about whether I should lose

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Speaker 1: his license or not have been put on hold. Because

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Speaker 1: of the coronavirus. Sadly. Um So, that's just in abeyance.

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Speaker 1: Number two, we're working on a final episode, which I

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Speaker 1: believe air in mid June. That's happened, that's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: Just kind of updating everybody into what's happened, and talking

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Speaker 1: about all the other patients that I've met and came

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Speaker 1: in contact with after the after the podcast came out,

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Speaker 1: and sort of catching up on Marty and his life.

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Speaker 1: Um and number three, you know, the Shrink has been

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Speaker 1: bought by Apple TV, and Will Farrell and Paul Rodd

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Speaker 1: are going to play the main characters. And it's very

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Speaker 1: very Marty and Ira respectively. Marty Jesus, I've listened to

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Speaker 1: it eight hundred thousand times. All Right, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: back and fix that in post, but go ahead, Marty

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Speaker 1: and I um So, Marty, Yes, Marty is gonna be

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Speaker 1: played by Will Farrell and Ike is going to be

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Speaker 1: played by Paul Rudd and um And I've had several

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Speaker 1: meetings Zoom meetings with the writers, and Marty's had a

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Speaker 1: meeting with the Zoom meeting with the writers, and Phillis

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Speaker 1: is at his sister is at a meeting with the writers,

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Speaker 1: so everybody's happy. Did you ever expect that this was

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Speaker 1: going to be what it was? I thought it was

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Speaker 1: gonna I tell you, I didn't think it was gonna

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Speaker 1: be that big. But um, I gotta tell yeah. In

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Speaker 1: the ten years since I've lived in this house and

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Speaker 1: Marty was my next door neighbor, every time I would

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Speaker 1: tell the story to somebody, their DAWs would dropped. And

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Speaker 1: so I knew that it had this inherent fascination and drama,

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Speaker 1: and I thought it would do well. I didn't think

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Speaker 1: it would be what it is. I mean I did.

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Speaker 1: I did not think that. But but you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: a I'm a confident guy, you know, But why do

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Speaker 1: you think it did? Why do you think it was

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Speaker 1: such a light? I mean beyond the story. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the story is incredibly compelling, and you and I have

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Speaker 1: talked about this a lot before, But what was it

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Speaker 1: that just hit Is it just this moment that we

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're living in a different moment now, but

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Speaker 1: the moment that we were living in, what was it? Well?

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Speaker 1: I think one thing is that millions upon millions of

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Speaker 1: people have been in therapy and how many times if

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Speaker 1: you ever read something or seeing something about a real

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Speaker 1: life therapist interacting with a patient for good or ill,

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Speaker 1: never never, And so I think there was a fascination

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Speaker 1: just because it was a psychiatrist, and because there was

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Speaker 1: manipulation involved, and and and and yes it was a

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Speaker 1: compelling story. But I also think the other reason is

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Speaker 1: that all until The Shrink came along, every true crime

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Speaker 1: story that you saw on a podcast involved a murder,

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Speaker 1: and this was the first one where nobody got killed

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Speaker 1: who really was In addition to being about a psychiatrist,

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Speaker 1: it was a very psychological drama that engaged you in

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Speaker 1: a different way than you know, how do we catch

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Speaker 1: the killer? And I think they had a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with it. So how do you follow up the

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Speaker 1: Shrink next door? Joe? Um, I have an answer to that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not allowed to tell you because or the

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Speaker 1: digital team at Bloomberg would kill me. Good. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: a good tease for what's next. Um. Really good to

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Speaker 1: catch up with you. Thank you so much. It was

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Speaker 1: one of these moments where as I was reading around

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Speaker 1: everything going on in the world, yours is a take

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Speaker 1: that I just wanted to get, especially knowing all the

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Speaker 1: work you've done around the n C Double A and

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Speaker 1: and the importance of that conversation. So really grateful for

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Speaker 1: your time, Jena Sarah, thank you very much. It was

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Speaker 1: a pleasure. As always. That's Jonah Sarah Calmness for Bloomberg, Opinion, author,

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Speaker 1: podcaster and as he said, can't wait for the movie

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Speaker 1: adaptation of The Shrink next Door starring Will Ferrell and

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Speaker 1: Paul Rudd. If you haven't listened to that podcast, you've

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Speaker 1: got to listen to it before you watch the movie. Well,

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Speaker 1: in terms of sports, we're here each and every Monday,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of money and sports.

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Speaker 1: Join us again this weekend. We're gonna talk health and

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Speaker 1: wellness fitness with the CEOs of Planet Fitness and Equinox.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio

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00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: around the world and online wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: M M