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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: So many people when I started were like, what the

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Speaker 1: hell is she doing? Like she has this good day job,

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Speaker 1: Like what is this? I lacked the boldness even to

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Speaker 1: think through a business plan and think this is what

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Speaker 1: I want in three years, Like I had to collect

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Speaker 1: the courage along the way to become that kind of leader. Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic, Stories from

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Speaker 1: the Frontiers and Marketing, where we explore marketing from the

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Speaker 1: math to the magic, and our guest today fits right

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Speaker 1: into that. She once said that really interesting things happening

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Speaker 1: at the intersection of instinct, intuition, and data. She's Gwyneth Paltrow,

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Speaker 1: probably best known for her screen career as an actor

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Speaker 1: with lots of awards, Academy Award, Golden Globe, Emmy, had

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Speaker 1: lots of great roles, but today we want to focus

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Speaker 1: on her as an inneventative and successful entrepreneur, starting with

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Speaker 1: an idea and exploding it and the multiple business is

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Speaker 1: all tied together by her vision. She's from a creative family.

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Speaker 1: Her father was a producer, her mom and actor. Yet

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Speaker 1: somehow Gwyneth had the business Gene from Stocking Toy said

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Speaker 1: an alternative toy store Penny Whistle on Madison Avenue in

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Speaker 1: New York, to founder and CEO of Goop. She said,

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Speaker 1: the drive and vision of an entrepreneur. She made the

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Speaker 1: Loop La New York, London and now was back in LA.

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Speaker 1: Gwyneth welcome, Thank you very much. This is my life.

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Speaker 1: You covered everything well before we get into those stories.

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Speaker 1: We're really going to boil it down you in sixty seconds.

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Speaker 1: Sounds good. I'm ready to go Early Riser, night out,

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Speaker 1: Early Riser New York or la ooh tie New Order

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Speaker 1: or psychedelic furs, beach or mountains, beach cats or dogs? Dogs?

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Speaker 1: Are you crazy? Theater or set them up? Theater? Introvert

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Speaker 1: or extrovert. Introvert, It's about to get harder. Childhood Hero,

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Speaker 1: my Dad, Professional Hero Brian Chesky, first job, Penny Whistle Toys,

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Speaker 1: favorite pasta shape RIGATONI, favorite play a street Carnaan desire,

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Speaker 1: favorite performance by your mom a street Carnian desire, favorite

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Speaker 1: vacation spot the exumas. Favorite Goop product are all in

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Speaker 1: one face oil prefer beverage, green tea, and what's something

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Speaker 1: you can't live without? My husband and children. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with the obvious question. You've had such an amazing and

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Speaker 1: busy career acting, what was the pull to business, and

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Speaker 1: more specifically to start your own business? Stupidity, naivete. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I always have felt like I'm

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Speaker 1: a relatively entrepreneurial person, though I don't think I would

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Speaker 1: have defined it that way. But when I look back

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Speaker 1: at being an artist, I think all artists who find

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Speaker 1: some success at it, all artists who are able to

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Speaker 1: provide for themselves by doing their art, are by definition entrepreneurial.

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Speaker 1: Like you have to have so much of those same

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Speaker 1: qualities of self belief and abject drive. And I know

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Speaker 1: it surprises a lot of people when artists become entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't surprise me because I think we are

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Speaker 1: all very cut from the same cloth. I've always been

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Speaker 1: a very independent person, and I think I've always wanted

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Speaker 1: real agency, and unfortunately, in an acting career, you're always

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Speaker 1: waiting for other people to let you express what needs

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Speaker 1: to be expressed. You need permission from the director, or

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Speaker 1: you need to get the part, so you need permission

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Speaker 1: from the producer or the studio or whatever. And I

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Speaker 1: found that very frustrating that I couldn't create and put

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Speaker 1: things into the world, and I found myself being slowly

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Speaker 1: drawn to this entrepreneurial space. You know, in the early

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Speaker 1: days of the Internet, it was such an exciting time

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Speaker 1: to watch businesses being created in this whole new way

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Speaker 1: and to see all of these, you know, existing business

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Speaker 1: models being disrupted and disintermediated, and I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: just thought it was fascinating. I also was very very

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Speaker 1: passionate about the lifestyle space, and I felt like I

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Speaker 1: wasn't seeing anything that really spoke to me or answered

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Speaker 1: my questions. And that was kind of the the early

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Speaker 1: impetus towards starting to explore how I might participate in

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Speaker 1: the space and how I might found a business. And

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Speaker 1: before you start a goop, you sort of put your

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Speaker 1: toe in the water a little bit in this space.

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Speaker 1: Could you give us that origin story. When I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, really starting my movie careers nineteen, I've always

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Speaker 1: been kind of obsessed with food and travel and culture

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Speaker 1: and art. I mean, my dad raised me in a

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Speaker 1: way to be very receptive and excited about these things,

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Speaker 1: and I was very much his child in this way.

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Speaker 1: So when I would go and do a film. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is pre Internet. I would find myself living in

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Speaker 1: Toronto or Paris or Rome or you know, Atlanta, and

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Speaker 1: really wanting to understand what the best of the city was.

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Speaker 1: What did this city have to offer by way of

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Speaker 1: not only food and culture, but you know stores and

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Speaker 1: were there any cool yoga studios? And there just wasn't

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Speaker 1: a way to find this information. So I would go

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Speaker 1: around the city and I would ask people. You know,

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Speaker 1: if I saw like a cool looking girl in Paris,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a cafe, I might ask her like,

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Speaker 1: what are your favorite shops? I would ask crew members,

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Speaker 1: you know, what is your favorite place to get a

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Speaker 1: sandwich or a coffee? And I started to collect all

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Speaker 1: this information about cities and then I thought, I've aggregated

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Speaker 1: all this information. I should put it somewhere. So that

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Speaker 1: was like the very early, early early, you know, Colonel

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Speaker 1: of A. Then what became Goop. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about Goop, but I want to

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Speaker 1: first jump back in time a little more. You stocked

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Speaker 1: toys at penny Whistle and Madison Avenue for folks who

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Speaker 1: were not New Yorkers of that era. Penny Whistle had

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Speaker 1: the cool and unusual toys in the day when unusual

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Speaker 1: was hard to find back then. It was started by

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Speaker 1: Meredith Brokaw, Tom Brokaw's wife. I lived above the store

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Speaker 1: for a few years in yearly eighties. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I actually know it. Well, how did you wind up

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Speaker 1: at Penny Whistle? Well, my father was adamant that both

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Speaker 1: my brother and I got jobs after school, so we

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Speaker 1: moved to New York City, and in seventh grade, you know,

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Speaker 1: I sort of set out on Madison Avenue and poking

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Speaker 1: my head into stores and seeing if, you know, they

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Speaker 1: needed any help. And so they took me at Penny Whistle,

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Speaker 1: and I was very excited. I mean, my father was

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Speaker 1: a self made guy. He had an incredible work ethic,

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Speaker 1: and I think he was nervous to some degree to

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Speaker 1: be raising two kids on the Upper East Side of Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: going to private school and living in a townhouse. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think he saw around corners and saw how that

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Speaker 1: could lead to a certain entitlement that he really really

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Speaker 1: wanted to fight again. So we were working. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my brother worked at the Double Duck Delhi on the

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Speaker 1: corner of ninety second in Madison. I worked at penny

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Speaker 1: Whistle I worked at. My next job was at Kindersport,

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Speaker 1: a ski store. Although I didn't realize when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid that when you go on spring break, you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to ask permission from your boss. So I sort

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Speaker 1: of missed a week of work and I came back

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Speaker 1: and they said, no, you didn't show up for work,

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Speaker 1: like you're fired. So that was also a great early

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Speaker 1: lesson for me in business. But it was a great

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Speaker 1: place to work, and as you said, the curation there

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Speaker 1: was so cool and so different, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: where I started to understand the power of curation. Besides,

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Speaker 1: you have to show up for work to keep your job.

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Speaker 1: What other lessons did you learn from those experiences. I

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Speaker 1: learned about the importance of the customer, the way that

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Speaker 1: people interact with a customer, to really make the customer

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Speaker 1: feel like they're having a special experience, and to keep

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Speaker 1: the back very tidy. That's good lessons. You went to

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Speaker 1: Spain for two months in high school? How did that

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Speaker 1: change your view of yourself or the world. It was

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Speaker 1: like an earthquake in my life in the best way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it just completely dismantled so many existing structures

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Speaker 1: of who I thought I was, and how I saw

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Speaker 1: the world. I was really dropped in it into this

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Speaker 1: wonderful family in the middle of Spain, in a very

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Speaker 1: small city where nobody spoke English in the family, and

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Speaker 1: I had to adapt so quickly and learn the language

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Speaker 1: so quickly. And I was completely enchanted by the culture,

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Speaker 1: the way they saw the world, the way they came

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Speaker 1: home and had lunched together every day and closed their eyes,

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Speaker 1: you know, for twenty minutes and then went back to

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Speaker 1: school or work, the importance of eating together family. You know.

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Speaker 1: I had never been around the rituals of Catholicism, for example,

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Speaker 1: which I found quite foreign and beautiful. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I came home a completely different kid. So let's move

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Speaker 1: on a little bit. A striking number of the successful

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Speaker 1: folks on this podcast having college dropouts. Bob way me included,

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Speaker 1: why did you drop out? Well, I was at the

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Speaker 1: University of California at Santa Barbara, which is a fantastic

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Speaker 1: school and probably the most beautiful school in California. But

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Speaker 1: I really really wanted to be acting. So I had

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Speaker 1: sort of hooked up with an agent and I would

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Speaker 1: kind of drive back and forth to Los Angeles an

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Speaker 1: audition or you know, I had gotten a very very

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Speaker 1: small part in a film, was basically like an extra.

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Speaker 1: And I'll never forget my father, who was a very dry,

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Speaker 1: hilarious New York Jew saying to me, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: doing both of these things very badly, meaning I wasn't

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Speaker 1: properly trying to act, and I wasn't properly trying to

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Speaker 1: go to school. And you know, with the support of

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Speaker 1: my parents, I decided to drop out to see if

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Speaker 1: I could pursue an acting career. It sort of felt

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Speaker 1: like it was burning a hole in my pocket, like

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Speaker 1: I had such urgency to get out there and do

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Speaker 1: it and try it. And I felt on some level,

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Speaker 1: you know, again this abject stupid self belief, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make it. I'm gonna make it. I know I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make it, and I just need to get out there.

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Speaker 1: And at some point my parents said, Okay, we'll support you,

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Speaker 1: go give it a try. Well, it obviously worked out

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Speaker 1: for you. I think the first time I met you

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Speaker 1: was with the Robin Hood Foundation, which for those who

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Speaker 1: don't know, is the innovative poverty fighting nonprofit in New

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Speaker 1: York City. And I wasn't really taken because your career

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Speaker 1: was on a tear. I think you had already won

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Speaker 1: an Academy award in your twenties, and you had one

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Speaker 1: amazing role after another, yet you found time to help

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Speaker 1: your fellow New Yorkers in need. Can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how you think about this part of

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Speaker 1: your life. Yes, man, it was a whirlwind. I mean

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Speaker 1: you articulated it correctly when you said, me doing what

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Speaker 1: kind of one project after the next. It was a

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Speaker 1: fast and furious time. I spoke to somebody, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was having like an overwhelming time, like after

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Speaker 1: the Oscar and everything. My father was sick, my grandfather

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Speaker 1: was sick, and I remember talking to somebody who said,

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Speaker 1: you know, being of service is such a great way

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Speaker 1: to stay focused on your true north, like who you

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Speaker 1: are as a person. So I did a few things

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Speaker 1: to be of service, and Robin Hood was certainly one

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Speaker 1: of them. I mean, it's, as you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: fantastic organization. I was so happy to be supportive. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all of the money from that organization goes into the

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Speaker 1: hands and the mouths of people who really needed, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to so many of these charities where it's all

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Speaker 1: going to salaries and overhead. So I felt very proud

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Speaker 1: to help. Let's jump ahead. Now, let's jump to Goop

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Speaker 1: and you, as an entrepreneur, founder and CEO, you started

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Speaker 1: pulling together all this information you had and you wanted

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Speaker 1: to share it. What year did you really start Goop

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Speaker 1: and what was sort of that critical moment from I'm

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Speaker 1: sharing my information to hey, wait a minute, I think

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Speaker 1: I got a business idea. So it's funny when I

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Speaker 1: first pressend on my mail Chimp account of my first

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Speaker 1: Goop newsletter that was in two thousand and eight, and

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that it would become a business

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Speaker 1: or how I would monetize it as a business. I

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Speaker 1: was just writing content from a very authentic place of like,

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Speaker 1: this is what I found that I love. This is

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Speaker 1: a great place to get the best cheese in London

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. And I found that

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Speaker 1: it had a lot of traction. And I found also

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Speaker 1: that I was really positively impacting these businesses that I

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Speaker 1: was talking about, and I thought, wow, Okay, there's something here,

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Speaker 1: like the people are trusting the curation. I think it

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Speaker 1: was unmonetized for about five years and then it was

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Speaker 1: having such an impact that people were coming to me

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Speaker 1: and suggesting that I monetize or really just asking me

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Speaker 1: how I thought I could monetize it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: at this point, I'd spent a lot of my own

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Speaker 1: money running it, and I thought, well, gosh, wouldn't it

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Speaker 1: be amazing if I could actually turn this into my job.

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Speaker 1: So I started figuring it out. I met with a

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Speaker 1: guy in London called seb Bishop who had been in

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Speaker 1: the e commerce in the early days, and he was

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Speaker 1: running red for Bono, and he was interested in getting

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Speaker 1: back into the for profit sector, and we sat together

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Speaker 1: and started to strategize, you know, how we would build

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Speaker 1: it out. And we started with kind of an immediate

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Speaker 1: revenue stream, which was through ads and then some native content, etc.

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Speaker 1: But my passion really lay around creating product. But it

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Speaker 1: was done very very slowly and very organically. We kind

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Speaker 1: of dipped our toes in the waters. Our e commerce

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Speaker 1: shop was first with collaborations with other brands, so we

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Speaker 1: weren't doing much design or supply chain or fulfillment or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. Then we had a bunch of other

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Speaker 1: brands that we were aligned with it we were selling

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Speaker 1: and then you know, then we got our first warehouse.

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Speaker 1: It's very iterative. It was slow, and I think that

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Speaker 1: I was really discovering what the business was as we

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Speaker 1: went along. What were your expectations of it? Were you

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Speaker 1: just along to see where it went? Or did you

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Speaker 1: have a vision of ten years, twenty years, here's what

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Speaker 1: we're building. You know, honestly, I felt like I wasn't

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Speaker 1: given the permission to have ambition in that way around it.

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Speaker 1: I was very timid. I think so many people when

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Speaker 1: I started were like, what the hell is she doing?

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Speaker 1: Like she has this good day job, Like what is this?

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Speaker 1: I lacked the boldness even to think through a business

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Speaker 1: plan and think this is what I want in three years,

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Speaker 1: Like I had to collect the courage along the way

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Speaker 1: to become that kind of leader. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: I was ready to be CEO myself until I was

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Speaker 1: ready to do that, and so that was probably seven

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Speaker 1: years ago. I allowed myself to think, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: okay to have ambitions, to really want to build something

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Speaker 1: that's meaningful and impactful. And so I still feel like

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Speaker 1: we're very much in the process of building that. More

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Speaker 1: of Math and Magic right after this quick break, Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Math and magic. Let's hear more from my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow. This podcast is about marketing, so

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Speaker 1: I have to ask this question, why the name Goop? Well,

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Speaker 1: I was seeking advice from an old friend of mine

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Speaker 1: whom you might know in New York, Peter Arnell, of course,

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Speaker 1: legendary marketing guy. He was amazing. He was so instrumental

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Speaker 1: in helping me meet you know, the first guys who

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Speaker 1: helped with web development and everything. And I said, I

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Speaker 1: just don't know what the name should be because I

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Speaker 1: really don't want it to be my name, Like my

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Speaker 1: ambition would be to build something that would be far

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Speaker 1: greater than me, and it could stand for something that

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Speaker 1: people would understand, and so I don't want it to

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Speaker 1: be my name. And Peter came up with the name Goop,

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Speaker 1: and I thought he was nuts. I mean, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was such a weird sounding word. And he said, no,

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Speaker 1: it's your initials with two o's in the name. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, what is that supposed to mean? And

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, all big internet companies have two

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Speaker 1: o's in the name, you know, whether it be Facebook, Google, Yahoo, whatever.

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Speaker 1: So I said, okay, Peter, I'm going to trust you,

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Speaker 1: and then Goup was born out of that. Daily Candy

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Speaker 1: had a successful editorial newsletter, Guilt had successful commerce, but

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Speaker 1: the combination of the two editorial and commerce was very elusive.

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Speaker 1: Why were you able to bring them together? What was

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Speaker 1: the secret? I think the secret was for so long,

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Speaker 1: I was so allergic to being transactional in that sense,

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Speaker 1: and I'll never forget. I published one issue of Goop.

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Speaker 1: I published an article on the French pharmacy, which I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you know when you go to Paris or anywhere

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Speaker 1: in France, the pharmacies there are so cool and they

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Speaker 1: have like, you know, homeopathic things, and they have like

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Speaker 1: all this special stuff. And so I wrote a piece saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is this great you know, burn cream

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Speaker 1: and these probiotic tampons, and there's this great lip bomb

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And a woman stopped me and

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Speaker 1: she said, oh my god. I loved that article on

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Speaker 1: the French pharmacy. But it was so frustrating for me

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Speaker 1: that I couldn't just click to buy everything. I was

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Speaker 1: on Amazon dot fr or trying to buy this and

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Speaker 1: that and searching, and it was the first time that

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Speaker 1: it occurred to me that transaction could actually be a

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Speaker 1: service as well, and that you didn't have to push

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Speaker 1: product for revenue. If you made or curated things that

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Speaker 1: you really believe in and thought were going to genuinely

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Speaker 1: elevate someone's life in some way, that you could do

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Speaker 1: what we then called contextual commerce. And we've always stayed

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Speaker 1: true to those principles. You know, we're obsessed with clean

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Speaker 1: beauty and we have the highest clean beauty standards in

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Speaker 1: the business, and so I think when people come to

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Speaker 1: the website, they understand that, and they understand that there's

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Speaker 1: a really strong point of view. You know that I

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Speaker 1: have a very strong point of view around fat. So

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Speaker 1: even when we were just buying, like from a wholesale

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Speaker 1: perspective and had a multi brand matrix, it was very specific.

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Speaker 1: When we started g label our clothing line is very

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Speaker 1: very true to me. So I wouldn't have been able

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Speaker 1: to sleep at night if I felt like I was

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Speaker 1: pushing something on somebody. You've been doing some very successful

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Speaker 1: Goop podcast How did you discover podcasting and do you

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Speaker 1: think of it as a separate business or is it

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Speaker 1: integral to your entire brand development. I think I understood

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Speaker 1: pretty early on in the game what podcasts were and

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Speaker 1: why they were valuable. And I think, you know, we

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Speaker 1: have always been a content first company, and sometimes we've

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Speaker 1: indexed too heavily into that, right, and so we're not

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Speaker 1: driving enough revenue because obviously you want to grow and

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Speaker 1: grow in a profitable way. But content is so critical

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Speaker 1: to why we are relevant as a business, and we're

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Speaker 1: always looking at various channels we can proliferate with great content,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether that's a Netflix show or whether it's

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Speaker 1: a podcast, or whether it's our digital content, etc. And

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of brands have caught up to

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Speaker 1: this as well, some with I think more relevancy than others.

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Speaker 1: But there's a content creation piece. I think that's really

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Speaker 1: important for driving a modern omni channel, direct consumer brand.

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Speaker 1: And so the podcast is such a great way of

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Speaker 1: folding that in. I mean, it is a revenue stream,

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Speaker 1: right because we sell ads on it, but it also

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Speaker 1: is a way to always articulate our curiosity goop to

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Speaker 1: really dig deeper with experts and doctors and amazing people

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Speaker 1: that we have on and I think podcasts are such

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Speaker 1: a great forum. I love listening to podcasts and I

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Speaker 1: listen to a lot of them. I think it serves

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Speaker 1: two purposes. There is the revenue stream and then it's

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Speaker 1: also again like the content. What's interesting is that you've

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Speaker 1: jumped into a lot of areas. To people thought you've

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Speaker 1: gone through sort of all the issues of starting a business,

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Speaker 1: but you've gone into retail when others are scared of it.

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Speaker 1: What's the secret of knowing when is the time for

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Speaker 1: that next step? And how did you wind up doing retail? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's a really relevant question too, especially

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Speaker 1: as we expand into wholesale with our eponymous beauty products

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Speaker 1: as well, because you know, I think there was this

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Speaker 1: desire to stay like purely direct to consumer for so

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Speaker 1: many brands like Goop, and then I think we all

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Speaker 1: started to see, Okay, we might need to broaden where

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Speaker 1: are we offering these products. So I personally think that

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Speaker 1: retail is super important for a brand because it's where

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Speaker 1: the customer can come in and touch and feel and

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Speaker 1: sort of be immersed in a brand experience. And that's

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Speaker 1: why the experiences in the stores need to be so good.

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Speaker 1: Because if I'm going to sell our great face cream

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Speaker 1: on Amazon or Sephora, both of which we do, I

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Speaker 1: need the brand halo to be really strong, like I

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Speaker 1: need the Goop brand to be intact when someone's adding

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Speaker 1: a cream to their Amazon cart. And I do think

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Speaker 1: that omni channel is really important for modern brands, and

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Speaker 1: retail is such an important piece of that. Now. I'm

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Speaker 1: not necessarily saying we would go and open a hundred

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Speaker 1: retail stores, but I do think that having the right

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Speaker 1: store and the right experience in the right market, it

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Speaker 1: works as a customer acquisition tool, it works as a

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Speaker 1: client telling tool, and I think you can really make

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Speaker 1: people forge a strong relationship to a brand in a

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Speaker 1: retail store the way that you just can't digitally. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. Two folks told me very similar stories as

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Speaker 1: they began retail. Ralph Lauren told me he was starting

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Speaker 1: his retail stores but way back when because he wanted

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Speaker 1: to show the department stores how to merchandise his product. Well,

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs, when he was talking about the Apple stores

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Speaker 1: the retail stores, said, nobody makes my product look special.

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Speaker 1: I need to build my own to show people how

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Speaker 1: to do it. But it's interesting. They both said, basically

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Speaker 1: what you just said, that it is all about sort

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Speaker 1: of making it come to life and showing people what

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Speaker 1: it should look and feel like talk to me a

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Speaker 1: little bit about Some people call it work life balance,

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Speaker 1: some people call it work life integration. How do you

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Speaker 1: make it work well? You know, being a mother and

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Speaker 1: raising my children has been by far and away the

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Speaker 1: most important aspect of my life, so as any working

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Speaker 1: parent does, that balance is so important to find. And

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Speaker 1: then I think how you define boundaries around each thing

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Speaker 1: are so important to find. And I think it's an

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Speaker 1: active process. You know, at one point in their childhood's

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Speaker 1: trying to do everything at the same time was not great.

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Speaker 1: But then in COVID, you know, we would all be

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Speaker 1: around the kitchen table and I could be doing emails

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Speaker 1: and they could be doing homework, and it felt like

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Speaker 1: a sort of shared activity. But you know, I turned

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Speaker 1: fifty in September, and I did a big inventory of

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Speaker 1: my life and what I thought was working and what

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Speaker 1: I thought needed some improvement. And I think continuing to

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Speaker 1: set boundaries around free time, time to be present with family,

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Speaker 1: time to really unplug on the weekends, like that's become

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Speaker 1: very critical for me. I used to spend Saturdays and

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Speaker 1: half of Sundays working, thinking, catching up, making notes, and

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Speaker 1: I've really delineated between my work week and my weekends.

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Speaker 1: Now that has been very, very important to me. Also,

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Speaker 1: you know, meal times really guarding times. We don't let

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Speaker 1: any phones at the table at all at the house

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Speaker 1: and even with guests. You know, people sometimes are like,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me I can't have my phone at

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Speaker 1: the table, and I say yes, because I want to

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Speaker 1: hear what you have to say. I want to watch

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Speaker 1: you think through something. I don't want anybody to be distracted.

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Speaker 1: And you know, these days, so precious little of our

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Speaker 1: time is just full of presents, and so I've realized, Okay,

430
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: I can't do two things at the same time, and

431
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: I want to be fully present in what I'm doing,

432
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: whether you know, I'm with my kid or whether I'm

433
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: at my desk or at a meeting. So let's talk

434
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: a little bit about the lessons you're passing on. You

435
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: talked about your dad and some of the things he

436
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: gave you, work ethic, appreciation for beautiful things, real sense

437
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: of design, taste, etc. What are one or two really

438
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: important lessons you've tried to impart to your kids. I

439
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: think kindness above all. Manners are really really important me.

440
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: Table manners and proper manners. I just think that, you know,

441
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: doors open for a young man or a young woman

442
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: that is polite and kind and empathetic. You know, my

443
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: parents were really great about letting me dream big and

444
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: supporting that, and so I really want my kids to

445
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: know that that is possible, like that dreaming big is

446
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: actually great, whether something manifests or it doesn't. You get

447
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: to know yourself and be really close to yourself when

448
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: you're dreaming about what you could be. And to me,

449
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: being friends with yourself and knowing yourself deeply is kind

450
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: of the great unlock in being a human being, you know.

451
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: And you can't say to a kid, hey, just be

452
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: yourself because it sounds like a platitude. So I try

453
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: to foster conversations around where the felt sense is a

454
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: visceral understanding of who they actually are and what is

455
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: important to them and who they want to be, even

456
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: if or especially if it doesn't align necessarily with what

457
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: I think is right for them. So, as a disruptor

458
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: and someone who has push boundaries, how do you cope

459
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: with criticism professionally and personally, mentally and physically, And by

460
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: the way, what do you tell your kids about how

461
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: to handle that? Yeah, you know, I've been through a

462
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: long road with this stuff, you know. I sort of

463
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: became famous when I was probably twenty two years old.

464
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I learned very quickly to make a distinction between the

465
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: projections of people who do not know me and the

466
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 1: people who love me and want the best for me,

467
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: even if they have to say something that might be

468
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: hard to hear. And I learned I've understood very early

469
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: that strangers who criticize you for whatever their reason is right,

470
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: and maybe it's well now for clickbait or now, it's

471
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: just to momentarily feel better about themselves because they're releasing

472
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: some venom, whether that's you know, online or on Twitter

473
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: or anywhere else, that has nothing to do with me.

474
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: I'm merely a projection that they're sort of using for

475
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: some gain that they're looking for. And I was really

476
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: able to, i don't know, really make the mental shift

477
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: into understanding that it had nothing to do with me. Now,

478
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: some criticism is really helpful, So you want that filtered

479
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: out right, Like, sometimes it's super important to hear those things,

480
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: But if it's coming from someone that I don't know,

481
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: I always try to remember that there will be a

482
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: piece that's projection, and you know, we live in a

483
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: culture where we don't know how to process through our

484
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: feelings very well. Like we don't have rubrics for wow,

485
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 1: this happened to me. This feels terrible, and I'm going

486
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: to make sure I process it out. So when we

487
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: don't do that, those feelings get stuck in our bodies

488
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: and they have to come out. So they come out

489
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: in hating someone or something or being mean about it.

490
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: It offers a temporary relief to somebody's own pain. So

491
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: I think I also understand that very well as someone

492
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: who frankly has spent all of my adult life like,

493
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: I've always been on a pursuit of taking full accountability

494
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: for myself, and that's you know, sometimes it's uncomfortable to do.

495
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: This is related to that. How do you think about

496
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: corporate culture? It is undeniably your company, so the culture

497
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: is yours. How do you think about deliberately building that

498
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: and what does it stand for? How do you use it?

499
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: How do you evolve it? It's definitely evolved over time.

500
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: And as you know, I didn't grow up in a

501
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: corporate culture, right, so I didn't start as an associate

502
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: and work my way up. So I kind of started

503
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: as a founder and so you know, you miss a lot,

504
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: like I've been playing catchup for a lot of these

505
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: years and learning on the job, which has been amazing.

506
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: But sometimes I think you don't start to think about

507
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 1: these things until things are not working well. Right, So

508
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: when it was just me and a few girls, like

509
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: in the little barn behind my house, it just felt

510
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: great and we all communicated. And as the company grew

511
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: and as I had less direct interaction with people every day,

512
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: and in a couple of pockets like culture started to

513
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: go a bit sideways. I was like, wait a minute,

514
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is not what we're doing. And

515
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, having to make hard decisions around, for example,

516
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: certain people at company who we're creating a bad culture

517
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: and having as CEO to take responsibility for that and

518
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: make hard and necessary changes, or also really taking the

519
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: time to step back and think about, okay, like what

520
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: do we want it to feel like to work at

521
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: Goop and what is important to us and you know,

522
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: understanding like the communication is the foundation of this stuff

523
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: and creating pillars like here we say our pillars culturally.

524
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: We speak straight, we listen generously, we are for each other,

525
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: we honor commitments, We acknowledge and appreciate, we include an align,

526
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: and we are accountable. So it's really living those values

527
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: every day. And I think you have to model it

528
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: from the top, you know, Like for me, for example,

529
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: I always had a hard time with the first one

530
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: speaking straight because I'm a pleaser. I don't want to

531
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: hurt anyone's feelings, and so I really had to overcome

532
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: that and sort of base through incredibly difficult, uncomfortable things

533
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: to just speak straight. And so I think it's always

534
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: an ongoing process. But I think culture has to be

535
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: at the forefront of any leader's mind because without a

536
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: work culture that especially that mirrors you know, what you're

537
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: trying to put out into the world. It's an issue.

538
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: So if you could, what advice would you give your

539
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: eighteen year old self, gosh, I mean, I think it

540
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: would be around what I alluded to be for with

541
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: my own children, around the importance about being radically yourself.

542
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: And you know, I think well Shakespeare said it best

543
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: when he said to thine own self be true and

544
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: that sort of radical come what may, loyalty to yourself,

545
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: and the come what may part is the hard part,

546
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: and I think that's something that we learn with age,

547
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: but I wish I could have had just a little

548
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: bit more of that, you know, before I turned forty.

549
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Can you compare and contrast the life of an actor

550
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: with the life of a CEO. I think they're very different, Bob.

551
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I am such a nine to five or

552
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: at this point. You know, when you're an actor, you're

553
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: all over the world. The hours are nuts. You know,

554
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: you're working at three in the morning on a night

555
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: shoot like you never know where your next job is

556
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: coming from, who you're going to work with. You never know,

557
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: as I said before, if your creativity is going to

558
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: be expressed in the way that you're hoping it will.

559
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: As a CEO, my mindset has shifted so much from

560
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: kind of the lone artist to being the head of

561
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: a culture and a culture of people who are aligned

562
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: towards EXE shooting on the same vision and hopefully doing

563
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: it happily. And so with that come structure and routine

564
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: and okayrs and all this stuff that my actress has

565
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: no idea about the actress that dwells within me. So

566
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: I think, apart from the kernel of hutzpah that both

567
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: jobs really need in order to be successful, I think

568
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: the lives are incredibly distinct, so we end each episode

569
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: of Math and Magic by giving a shout out to

570
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: those who influenced or inspired us through the analytical side

571
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: and from the creative side of marketing and business. There's

572
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: one person in the world that has both that I

573
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: have met, and that's Whitney Wolf heard from Bumble, who

574
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: is so analytically driven and so wildly creative. And it's

575
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: just she's like a fountain of ideas and problem solving.

576
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: That's fantastic where one person gets them both. Gwenneth, You've

577
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: had a remarkable journey, amazing experiences, some wonderful lessons. Thanks

578
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: for sharing them with us today. Oh thank you so

579
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: much for having me. I appreciate it. Here are a

580
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: few things I picked up in my conversation with Gwyneth. One,

581
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: provide meaningful service. Business should be more than just transaction.

582
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: From working with charities to providing wellness to her customers,

583
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 1: Gwenne's stays grounded by making sure the work she does

584
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: can make a meaningful difference in people's lives. To bottle

585
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: from the top. When you're the face of a company,

586
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: you need to live the values you preach. Healthy company

587
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: culture is an important part of any business. Setting an

588
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: example for your colleagues, give you a strong foundation to

589
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: build upon. Three prioritize your values. Everything comes down to this,

590
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: but it might be one of the hardest lessons to learn.

591
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Goop is successful because it is a unique extension of

592
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: Gwyne's interest and beliefs. Building something that's so personal can

593
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: be challenging, but in the toughest times, knowing yourself in

594
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: both life and business will ensure you stay on the

595
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: right path. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it

596
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math

597
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio. The show is hosted

598
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom for booking

599
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat.

600
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: Our editor Emily Marinoff, our engineer Jessica Kranchich, our executive

601
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: producers Nikki Etre and Ali Perry, and of course Gail Raoul,

602
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: Eric Angel, Noel and everyone will helped bring this show

603
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: to your ears. Until next time,