1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: And I was like trying to grab these books out 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: of her hand because I didn't want her to get 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: rid of them. I didn't want her to burn them. 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: And I was like please, no, please, no, please no, 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: and she's like, yes, this is what we're going to do. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: Then she took them from me, she took them out 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: of my hands, and then she threw them all in 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: the woodstove. So she closed the door and that was that. 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: Couldn't retrieve them. They were on fire. 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Christa Lester Pitch peered over a man's shoulder to see 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: the computer screen. There was a news report on it, 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: and there was Jess, Jess with her red hair, wearing 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: a bright red coat and black gloves. She was saying 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: something to a man with a microphone, but Krista couldn't 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: hear what she said. 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: It was kind of real, honestly. 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 2: Christa was the girl whose mom once burned her books 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: to cast away Devil Spirits. She was in her twenties, 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: now standing in a house in spoke Anne, Washington, where 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 2: Victor's followers had relocated. She lived there with other River 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: Road members, all clustered around the screen. Victor's right hand woman, 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: Jan had warned Christa this news story was coming, but 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: she wouldn't give her details about what was in it. 24 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:34,639 Speaker 2: She just told her none of it's true. Jan's husband 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: had his headphones plugged into a computer, so the mouths 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: on the screen moved, but no sound came out. 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: And then immediately I went into my room. 28 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: She pulled out a tablet she kept hidden there against 29 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: the rules, her secret window to the outside world. 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Plugged in my headphones and watched it myself. 31 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: The tall man with a microphone was Tom Lyden, an 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: investigative journalist who'd reached out to Lindsay and Jess. Jess 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: led the reporter to the grounds of the shepherd's camp, 34 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: where they had all once lived. Large pine trees looked 35 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: black against the snow. Lindsay and Jess talked openly about 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: what had happened to them as maidens, about the sexual 37 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: abuse they had experienced when their parents gave them away 38 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: to Victor. Jess explained she had never gotten the talk 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: about sex, but that she knew something was wrong. She 40 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: looked straight to the camera and said, my young impressions 41 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: of him was he was a scary person because he 42 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: yelled a lot, and I was afraid of him when 43 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: I said to my parents, this man that you support, 44 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: Victor Bernard, raped your daughter. My mom said, the blood 45 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: of the lamp covers it all. Jesus Christ forgives. 46 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: And I was really, really sad. I didn't know Lindsay 47 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: very well, but I knew Jess. I knew Jess very 48 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: very well. She was like a sister to me. Watching 49 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: Lindsay's story and watching Jess around my hometown and showing 50 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: the Shepherd's camp and seeing the places that I grew up. 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: At the time, the band aid was starting to get 52 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: ripped off for me, like my childhood was suddenly tarnished, 53 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: and that's a hard thing to bounce back from. 54 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: You know. 55 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: It was shocking, but I wasn't surprised. I grew up 56 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: in this church. I knew how Victor behaved with young women, 57 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: and I knew how they behaved with him. I always 58 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 1: thought it was weird, so old. 59 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 2: And Krista knew how he behaved with her. She thought 60 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: about encounters she'd had with Victor, like when she was 61 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: fifteen and he slapped her butt when she walked by, 62 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: or another time when she and some girls and their 63 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: moms had invited Victor on a picnic. 64 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: And one of the moms thought, what a good idea 65 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: would be if after lunch the moms leave and we 66 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: stay and we lay on blankets with Victor under the trees. 67 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: And I did not like that idea. I thought it 68 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: was weird. I was just like laying there, not touching anything. 69 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: I was not enjoying myself whatsoever. And the other two 70 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: girls were like cuddled up next to Victor, and it 71 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: was like, what are we even doing? 72 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,559 Speaker 2: Started raining, so Krista got to leave, but she always 73 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: wondered what would have happened if the rain hadn't come. 74 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: And so, you know, it's not hard for me to 75 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: believe that he went much further with some girls, and 76 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: that type of stuff was normal. It was so normal. 77 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: We weren't all raped, but we were all. I can 78 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: honestly say, beyond all shadow of doubt, that every last 79 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: one of us young girls in that church was in 80 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: some type of situation like that at least one time 81 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: in our childhood. 82 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: But the people around Christa had just one reaction to 83 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: the news story. 84 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: Everybody around me was saying, it's all lies, even the maiden, 85 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: it's all lies. It's all lies. It's all lies. And 86 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: I was like but it makes sense though. These girls 87 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: they had every thing to lose and they lost it. 88 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: They lost the respect of their peers, they lost their families, 89 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: and they still came out and told their stories. I 90 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: was just like, there's no possible way that they're lying. 91 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: These girls had been raped. It was definitely a marked 92 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: moment in my life watching these girls. These women, they 93 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: did something so strong, and I knew in my soul 94 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: that they were telling the truth. What's crazy, this is 95 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: really crazy, is Victor had already taken off to Brazil. 96 00:06:54,760 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 4: Victor was on the run. 97 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: From a cocoa punch and iHeart podcasts This is the 98 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: Turning River Road, I'm Erica Lance. 99 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 5: And I'm Alan Lance Lesser Part seven Manhunt. While Krista 100 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 5: lived in the tightly sealed River Road community in Washington, 101 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 5: Lindsay was on the other side of the country with 102 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 5: a lot more freedom. Lindsay didn't live with her parents anymore, 103 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 5: and by now she'd been out of the cult for years. 104 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 5: Then she learned she was pregnant. It wasn't something she 105 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 5: planned for. The father was a friend and didn't really 106 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 5: want to be involved. If Lindsay was going to have 107 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 5: this baby, it be up to her to raise it 108 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 5: on her own. 109 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 6: And I was in no position to have a kid, 110 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 6: you know, like I was dealing with so much my 111 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 6: own uncle and Bethesda and my cousin at that point, 112 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,559 Speaker 6: like did not support me having my daughter and wanted 113 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 6: me to give her up for adoption and took me 114 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 6: to an adoption agency. And I remember like sitting in 115 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 6: the office and looking at these books. Couples made books 116 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 6: of their travels and adventures and their families and what 117 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 6: they did, how they would raise kids. And I just 118 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 6: keep thinking, my parents gave me up the firstborn. I 119 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 6: could never give my firstborn up. I remember it was 120 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 6: seven weeks and four days when I went to the 121 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 6: clinic and confirmed the pregnancy, and it was just this tiny, 122 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 6: tiny little seed on the screen, and I knew. I 123 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 6: was like, I'm gonna keep you and I want to 124 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 6: be your mommy. 125 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 5: She was pregnant. When the story broke, she watched herself 126 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 5: on the screen. 127 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 6: It didn't feel real because we'd waited for two years 128 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 6: for anything to happen, and then now everything was blowing 129 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 6: up and it almost seemed like a train that had 130 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 6: gone off its tracks. It was just rolling full speed ahead, 131 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 6: and it was like, Okay, people are hearing this, people 132 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 6: are believing me. Finally, you know, like something is going 133 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 6: to come out of this. 134 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 5: Before the story was on TV, Lindsay and Jess's case 135 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 5: set for two years, seemingly without any decision or movement 136 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 5: or updates. But after the news things started to change. 137 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 5: More media wanted to interview Lindsay, and the US Marshals 138 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 5: wanted to meet with her. 139 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 6: They wanted to meet me and give them, like all 140 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 6: the information I had about Brazil, all the places I 141 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 6: had visited, and I was like, okay, like we are 142 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 6: going somewhere now. 143 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 5: We went back out to Minnesota for the meeting. Jess 144 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 5: was there too. Lindsay hadn't seen her for seven years. 145 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 5: They'd both been interviewed for the news report, but they 146 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 5: hadn't actually seen each other in person, not since Lindsay 147 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 5: was a Maideness as long red hair was now cropped 148 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 5: to a pixie and bleached blonde. 149 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 6: And of course our clothes were different because we made 150 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 6: most of our clothes. But I still remember like she 151 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 6: had that great smile that I loved so much, and 152 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 6: I remember thinking how good it was to see her smile. 153 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 6: I remember just hugging each other and crying. We just 154 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 6: hugged and cried. She seemed more free and more expressive 155 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 6: from what I had remembered living in the coult and 156 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 6: having to not really be our true selves. 157 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 5: Jess lived in Wisconsin now in a small town called 158 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 5: River Falls, built around a trickling waterfall. She worked at 159 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 5: a liquor store and had a partner named Mike. Lindsay 160 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 5: showed her pictures of her daughter. 161 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,479 Speaker 1: They laughed about the old days. 162 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 5: Remembered how much they loved the sound of new guitar strings. 163 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 5: They started hanging out more, drank beer and watch Netflix, 164 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 5: and Jess showed Lindsay Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, a comedy about 165 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 5: a young woman who leaves an underground bunker when she's 166 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 5: rescued from a doomsday cult leader. In the opening credits, 167 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 5: she steps out into the sun for the first time 168 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 5: in a long prairie dress, the kind Lindsay and Jess 169 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 5: used to wear. 170 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 6: I at the time was not a fan because I 171 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 6: thought it minimized everything I was feeling. But she really 172 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 6: liked it. Oh, it was so fun. It was almost 173 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 6: not that we were like sneaking around doing this, but like, 174 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,359 Speaker 6: oh my gosh, I can't believe. Could you ever imagine 175 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 6: that we'd be here, like having some beers and watching 176 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 6: this comedy show together. It was surreal. It was like, 177 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 6: after all this time and all the terrible stuff that 178 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 6: had happened, we're here, like actively trying to put Victor 179 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 6: in jail, but then also having this bonding time together. 180 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: It was It was pretty special. 181 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 6: But I honestly don't think we dove in to deep 182 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 6: memories of even the good times, because I think we 183 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 6: both during that time were just still suffering so much 184 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 6: from all the bad stuff that happened that at times 185 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 6: it was really hard to remember even the good stuff, 186 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 6: if that makes any sense. 187 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, just had a happy life in River Falls. But 188 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 5: she had dark times too. Could relate. 189 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of dark times. She almost ended up 190 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 6: in the hospital from trying to commit suicide a couple 191 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 6: of times. I think we both had feelings of abandonment 192 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,359 Speaker 6: from our parents and betrayal. We both had common reactions 193 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 6: with wanting to hurt ourselves and just feeling that almost 194 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 6: the pain was too big to handle. I would just 195 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 6: try to encourage her, and I was hoping that, you know, 196 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 6: going through all of this would really help, would help 197 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 6: in some way. I mean, it doesn't take away what 198 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 6: we went through and the pain, the reality of it all. 199 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 6: But I was hoping that Victor going to jail and 200 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 6: some justice being served would help her. 201 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 7: It was kind of devastating being as that we were 202 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 7: in the community, that it was all going on, and 203 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 7: nobody was really aware of it until us, you know, 204 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 7: burst out into flames. 205 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: Eileen rad Dunn's works at Petrie's Bach, the convenience store 206 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: in Finlassen that sells everything you need in this small town, 207 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: gas and groceries and fishing and hunting and camping supplies. 208 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: Even though River Road members kept to themselves, they did 209 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: go into town. 210 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,359 Speaker 4: Sometimes they would. 211 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 8: Come into the store. It was Pete here from time 212 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 8: to time. 213 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: Eileen says she saw the women in long dresses walking 214 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: through the store with their heads down, no eye contact, 215 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: not talking to anyone else. They'd get what they needed 216 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 2: and leave. She says people knew it was a religious 217 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: cult because of how closed they were, but they didn't 218 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: really know what was going on inside. Eileen helped clean 219 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: the camp after River Road left. She says she saw 220 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: the house where Victor took the maidens. 221 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 8: When you know what happened. 222 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 7: It just gives you a creepy feeling. 223 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: And you know what happened, It just gives you a 224 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: creepy feeling. 225 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 4: She says. 226 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: Peetrees was the store Lindsay and Jess once daydreamed they'd 227 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: run away to when they were little girls. Now they 228 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: were on tea and everyone in the store learned what 229 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: had really happened. People in Pine County often saw River 230 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: Road followers over the years. The cult members had a 231 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 2: cabinet business, a butcher shop. Some ran a construction company too. 232 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 2: The local hairdresser gave followers haircuts a few times. She 233 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 2: noticed how they always came two by two and didn't talk. 234 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: It gave her an eerie feeling. Now these girls in 235 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: prairie dresses were on the news. A lot of people 236 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: in Pine County and across Minnesota saw the news story 237 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: about River Road found out what was happening right next door. 238 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: Many of them might have seen the broadcasts in their 239 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: homes and gone on with their day, ate dinner, went 240 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: to work, moved on. But there was one person who 241 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: couldn't let the story go, who felt like something needed 242 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: to be done, And before long that person would become 243 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: a central part of the story. 244 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 9: Well, the primary images that come back for me are 245 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 9: Lindsay and Jess. That's always my strongest memory of this case. 246 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: Rehese Frederickson was a lawyer in his late thirties when 247 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: Jesson Lindsay came on TV. He had prosecuted drug crimes, burglaries, 248 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: and domestic assaults, but he'd never seen a case like 249 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: this in Pine County, and he'd always been interested in cults. 250 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 9: I don't know why I'm so fascinated by them. How 251 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 9: one person can control so many people and change their will, 252 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 9: you know, and change their allegiance to their families and 253 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:36,239 Speaker 9: their community. 254 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: Rees swears her members when at three or four years 255 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: old he saw the Jonestown cult on the news, the 256 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: aerial images with hundreds of dead bodies stuck with him. 257 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: When he grew up, Reese got to meet the prosecutor 258 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: on the Manson family cult case. That meeting inspired Reese 259 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: to become a prosecutor himself. 260 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 9: I mean, it's like, how many tests do these leaders 261 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 9: push on these people and they cantinue to acquiesce. And 262 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 9: that's kind of what fascinated me too about the River 263 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 9: Road Fellowship. As Victor Bernard just incrementally kind of went 264 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 9: beyond those boundaries that everybody else is expected to live by, 265 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 9: and they overlooked it, overlooked it, overlooked it until it 266 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 9: just got to be too much for somebody. 267 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: And this cult was in Reese's backyard. He trained for 268 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: canoe races in the lakes and rivers close to the 269 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: Shepherd's camp. He had birthday parties for his kids there. 270 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 2: It struck him that here was this news story, but 271 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: Victor hadn't even been arrested. Reese is a private person. 272 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: He describes himself as an introvert, but he wanted to 273 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 2: do something. He wanted to go after Victor, and he 274 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: decided to run for election to be the county attorney 275 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: in Pine County that was. 276 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 9: Meant to be on this path, that was meant to 277 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 9: have this case. 278 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 2: Reese was the underdog in the election for county attorney, 279 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 2: but after campaigning and a series of three debates, he won. 280 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 2: He knew what he had to do next time to 281 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: find Victor. Victor's name went on the US Marshal's fifteen 282 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: most wanted list, an Inner Pool red notice was put 283 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 2: out for him. The marshals surveilled river road houses in 284 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: Washington State. They watched maidens covertly tracked their movements. The 285 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: maidens caught on and began to take circuitous roots, flying 286 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: to multiple cities in roundabout ways when they had to travel. Then, 287 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: one day, when a maiden was coming from Brazil back 288 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: to the US, officials searched her baggage and customs they found. 289 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 10: A card, and a card. 290 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 9: Was a handwritten and it was signed just with a 291 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 9: V at the bottom. And that was when the light 292 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 9: went off and said, Okay, that's got to be Victor Bernard, 293 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 9: and if she has that card on her for returning 294 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 9: from Brazil, that means he's in Brazil. 295 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 2: So they contacted local authorities in Brazil who started to 296 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: tail a maiden down there, and she. 297 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 9: Knew she was being followed. At times, she was very careful. 298 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 9: She would pull over to the side of the road 299 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 9: and just wave and kind of watch to see if 300 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 9: there were people tailing her. My understanding was that it 301 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 9: was a lone Brazilian cop that was doing surveillance on 302 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 9: a condo and that's when they spotted Victor Bernard. 303 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: Law enforcement tore through the condo, seizing documents, usb drives, diaries, 304 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: and electronics. There's a picture of Victor during the arrest. 305 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: He's on a cream leather couch wearing a tank top. 306 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: He looks tan. His gray beard covers much of his 307 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 2: thin face. His eyes looked tired, almost squinting, and his 308 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 2: hands are behind his back like he's handcuffed. 309 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 9: I just a vision of him knocking his doors out. 310 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 9: Here's this international fugitive, you know, thinking he's cooling his 311 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 9: heels next to the beach and look and relax like 312 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 9: he's on sulpification. Some rational part of him had to 313 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 9: know that his time was up. 314 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 6: After basically living my life thinking that I would die 315 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 6: being a maiden, the reality that he was now being 316 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 6: hunted and then finally found. I don't remember crying. I 317 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 6: think I remember being almost like you know when you 318 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 6: have the wind taken out of you. It was almost like, 319 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 6: oh my gosh, it happened. It's real. Like in the 320 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 6: midst of all of my hurting, I was like, he 321 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 6: is not going to get away with this. I know 322 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 6: it won't be easy, but bring it on, We're going 323 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 6: to get this bucker. 324 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 5: Victor Bernard was in a Brazilian jail cell, but now 325 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 5: they had to get him back to Minnesota. It took 326 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 5: a year and a half of political and legal maneuvering, 327 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 5: but finally in June of twenty sixteen, he was extradited 328 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 5: back to Minnesota. The US Marshalls had him. 329 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 9: I think they flew down there on the commercial plane, 330 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 9: and I remember one of the marshals said that when 331 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 9: they got him on the plane, he sat there for 332 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 9: eighteen hours or twenty hours or whatever it is that 333 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 9: takes Gole from Brazil to the United States. Didn't use 334 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 9: the restroom once. She thought was extremely odd. And they 335 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 9: had a cup of water in front of him, both 336 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 9: hands or on the cup, and he just kept staring 337 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 9: at the water and taking sit for like eighteen hours. 338 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 5: Reese knew there were a lot of eyes on them now. 339 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 5: Lindsay knew it too. She was told to be careful 340 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 5: to watch her surroundings and be vigilant while she was out, 341 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 5: and a family member warned her some cult members might 342 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 5: reach out to see if she would say anything incriminating 343 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 5: information they could pass on to Victor's lawyers. 344 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 6: So I remember I also felt a little like scared. 345 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 6: I got off of social media for a while because 346 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 6: I was like, I just to be safe, you know, 347 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 6: I have a two year old. 348 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 2: It does seem a little scary to try to take 349 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: down a man who a lot of people see as 350 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: practically God as a christ figure. 351 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 5: Were you worried about. 352 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: People who still believed in him actually feeling like very 353 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 2: threatened by your actions, and then taking action in some 354 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: way themselves. 355 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 6: I would lock up the house like Knox. I remember 356 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 6: just always being on guard. Every door, every window was locked. 357 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 6: I remember driving and looking out the rear view mirror 358 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 6: making sure nobody was ever following me, just because I 359 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 6: didn't know what Victor's friends would do, like some of 360 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 6: the elders, because as far as I knew, they all 361 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 6: still supported him, including my mother and most of my siblings. 362 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 6: I had no idea what was going to happen, what 363 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 6: people would do. 364 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 5: Reese got to work at the County Courthouse, a modern 365 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 5: building with long glass windows, surrounded by Pine County farmland. 366 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: Where is the jail, the Pine County jail, It's right 367 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 2: underneath you. 368 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 9: The jail is in I don't know if you call 369 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 9: it the basement, but it's the floor below us. 370 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 5: So Victor Bernard was being held literally below where we're 371 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 5: sitting right now. 372 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 10: That's correct, Yes, that must. 373 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 2: Have been so so surreal. 374 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 10: Surreal is a good word for it. 375 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 5: Fellowship members started visiting Victor in jail. They couldn't meet 376 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 5: with him face to face, but they could talk to 377 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 5: him through a video system. 378 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 9: Some of this diehard followers showed up and we're talking 379 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 9: to them. It was just interesting to see what is 380 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 9: the dynamic between a follower and their cult leader and 381 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 9: how do they interact with each other. 382 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 3: Good morning, good morning, did you give your voice? It's 383 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 3: good to. 384 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 6: Hear yours too. 385 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 4: This morning. 386 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: I am how about you? 387 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 11: Thankful to being in this where growing interest that that's 388 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 11: where we'll be forever. I just want to say this that, 389 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 11: you know, I think we just need to trust God 390 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 11: because I don't believe that this was what was supposed 391 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 11: to happen, and I think that it is my fault, 392 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 11: my responsibility. 393 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 8: But we will trust God because he is so good 394 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 8: and so big, and he works all things together for 395 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 8: good even if even if we make. 396 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 5: Mistakes or you know, there are dozens of recorded phone 397 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 5: calls between Victor and his followers. He speaks regularly to 398 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 5: two maidens, to jan and there's a call with Lindsay's sister. 399 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 5: Victor tells them to avoid names and specific details. He 400 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 5: knows the calls are being recorded. From time to time, 401 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 5: he talks about his mistakes, but never exactly what those 402 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 5: mistakes are. In those moments, the callers comfort him. 403 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 7: In the end, Jesus Christ is the hero. And you 404 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 7: know what, God knew that we were human and we 405 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 7: were not going to walk with him perfectly, and sometimes 406 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 7: we were going to blow it don't work. 407 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 4: So your friends, no matter what, they're. 408 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 9: Fawning language over him. Oh victory, he looked great, and 409 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 9: he really didn't look great, but they thought he looked great, 410 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 9: and he didn't say a whole lot. What also stood 411 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 9: out to me was just what a narcissist he is, 412 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 9: especially with regard to when his mugshot hit the media 413 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 9: and of course social media. I mean, people are often cruel, 414 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 9: but he deserves to be cruel against him, I suppose. 415 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 10: But his mugshot is terrible. 416 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 9: He looks awful, you know, with his squinted eyes, and 417 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 9: it was just it was a bad picture of him. 418 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 9: And I remember him asking one of I believe she 419 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 9: was one of the maidens about his mugshot and expressing 420 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 9: disapproval of it and asking her how he looked, and 421 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 9: so it told me that he was more concerned about 422 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 9: his image than anything else. She said, oh, Victory, you're 423 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 9: so handsome in your picture. 424 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 10: You look great. A lot of it was especially with her. 425 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 9: She would come in with the Bible and just read 426 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 9: read passages of the Bible, hours of this boring stuff. 427 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 7: Let us stand together. Who is mine adversary? Who would 428 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 7: see that shall condemn me? Well, they all fall wax 429 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 7: old as a garment. The moth shall eat the mouth? 430 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 9: And he went say much he would just kind of 431 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 9: nod and maybe just kind of an incomprehensible gruntsy yes, 432 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 9: or something like that. 433 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 5: Victor asked his followers to help him through his new 434 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 5: life in jail, and they did. They help him figure 435 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 5: out which lotion to order. They tell him he's been 436 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 5: on the news. Helped him choose what food to order 437 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 5: from the canteen. 438 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 8: Do you know what. 439 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 11: You have? 440 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 3: The fudle? 441 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: Okay, they have like pepperoni or vice like. 442 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 7: Ooh, the summer saus This is how you really good. 443 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 7: That's gonna give you good protein too. We're going to heaven. 444 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 7: Just don't forget it. And it's bigger. It could be tonight. 445 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 7: You might you might never even wake up because you're 446 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 7: going to fly away and be at rest. 447 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 3: But Jesus Christ when. 448 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 7: With this. 449 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 9: One thing that really stood out for me is just 450 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 9: kind of watching the facial expressions of the followers when 451 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 9: they interact with Victor. Just this happiness, this weird, gleaming, 452 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 9: kind of superficial happiness and glow in their eyes like 453 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 9: they are in the presence of a savior. I don't 454 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 9: know how to describe it, but it's it's like if 455 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 9: you see somebody that's pretending to be happy. I wouldn't 456 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 9: call it that, and I wouldn't call it somebody that's 457 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 9: genuinely happy. It seems like somebody who is kind of 458 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 9: convinced themselves that they're happy. It felt kind of force 459 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 9: just you're happy, you're happy, you have to be happy 460 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 9: around me, And eventually it just kind of gets frozen. 461 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 4: Have you been frozen on your face? 462 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 10: Yeah? Exactly. It felt kind of frozen on their faces. 463 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 4: I mine. 464 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 3: Well. 465 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 7: This morning, when I got up, I was humming a 466 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 7: song to myself, and I thought it might bless you 467 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 7: to hear it too. 468 00:29:52,760 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 3: Okay, peace, peace, wonderful, oh peace, coming down from the 469 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 3: Father of sleep over my spears forever crazy. 470 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 7: In fad mistill. 471 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 11: So thank you, thank you. 472 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, he will give it to us today. 473 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: We have that piece. 474 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 3: I love you, Thank you. 475 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 7: Okay. 476 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 5: Lindsay knew many followers still supported Victor, but what hurt 477 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 5: Lindsay the most was what came from her own family. Well, 478 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 5: and Victor talked with her sisters and her mom, Peggy, 479 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 5: and she told Victor exactly where she stood. 480 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 7: Good morning, good morning, get there, God bless you. I 481 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 7: just thank God for you, Victor. I love you, and 482 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 7: You've been in my heart and prayers, and I know 483 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 7: and believe God called you. And where I was at 484 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 7: my life when you came because I was crying out 485 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 7: to God because my life was in such a miserable state. 486 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 7: And you showed up a couple of weeks later, and 487 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 7: I just remember over the years thinking how could one 488 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 7: man love and give so much to so many people? 489 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 7: Is only by the power of God in Christ, in you, 490 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 7: And I am forever thankful to God. 491 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: For you. 492 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 6: My mom and two of my sisters wrote letters to 493 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 6: the judge on Victor's behalf, totally trashing me and supporting Victor. 494 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 5: Lindsay's mom wrote in her letter, quote I have much 495 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 5: sorrow for Lindsay and the direction she's gone and turning 496 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 5: away from God, the Bible, and her minister. I do 497 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 5: not believe her accusations against Victor are true. They contradict 498 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 5: everything I have known in my daughter's life and Victor 499 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 5: Bernard's life. Victor Bernard is a man of integrity and honesty, 500 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 5: and I would trust him with my life or anyone else's. 501 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: These believers stood with Victor against Lindsay, but when police 502 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: interviewed a number of other River Road members, they corroborated 503 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 2: Lindsay's story. They claimed not to know about the sexual abuse, 504 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: but no one in the police recordings we heard doubted 505 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: Lindsay and Jess. One of them said they'd had suspicions. 506 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: Another said they could see red flags in retrospect, like 507 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: when Victor had a spiritual marriage ceremony with these young 508 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 2: girls and mentioned concubines in his sermon. Jan came up 509 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: in these interviews too. They said she was Victor's personal secretary, 510 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: his recruiter, and a house mother to the maidens. Even 511 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 2: with these other witnesses, though the case against Victor was 512 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 2: not a slam dunk, the county attorney Rhyes. Frederickson knew 513 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: any lawyer would be nervous about a case like this. 514 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 2: He wasn't sure whether people could believe that parents would 515 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 2: give their kids away to a sexual predator like that, 516 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 2: and maybe even more importantly, before he met Lindsay and Jess, 517 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: he wasn't sure how they'd come off, whether they'd be 518 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: believable to a jury, But he was about to find out. 519 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 2: He plans to meet them at the county courthouse. 520 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 9: I remember I walked out where you came out in 521 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 9: this hallway here, and they showed up early, like ten 522 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 9: minutes early, and I came around the corner. I mean, 523 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 9: he developed certain instincts in this job over the years, 524 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 9: and it was almost like kind of a gut punch 525 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 9: where I saw the two victims, and right away I 526 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 9: knew that they were completely trustworthy and believable. That was 527 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 9: one of the strongest instincts I've ever had when I 528 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 9: saw them. It was within five seconds, I said, Okay, 529 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 9: we won the case. Never had that feeling since that time, 530 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 9: but I I just it was weird. I just turned 531 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 9: around the corner and I just knew. 532 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: Reese and Victor's lawyer began to negotiate a plea deal. 533 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: Rees says they didn't think Jess and Lindsay would actually 534 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: want to testify about what they've been through, but Rees said, no, 535 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: they're not backing down no matter what. 536 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 9: These girls are very br and they're gonna sit up 537 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 9: there in the witness stand. They're going to look on 538 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 9: the eye and they're going to testify about what happened. 539 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: Victor's attorney came back with an offer eighteen years for 540 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 2: a guilty plea. Jess and Lindsay said no, twenty four years. 541 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 2: Victor's attorney offered the victims wouldn't have to testify. Did 542 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 2: they really want to go through that? 543 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 9: And I thought, okay, that's not bad, and so I 544 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 9: contacted Jess. And my feeling from Jess is that she 545 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 9: wanted just to get this done with, put it behind her, 546 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 9: and that she was ready to testify. She had a 547 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 9: lot of courage, but preferred not to and so she 548 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 9: seemed okay with the twenty four years. And then I 549 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 9: talked to Lindsay, and Lindsay her perspective on this was 550 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 9: she wanted more exposure on Victor Bernard and his crimes 551 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 9: and what they did to her and Jess, and she said, 552 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 9: no way more than twenty four years. 553 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 2: Reese gave the attorney their answer and began to prepare 554 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 2: for trial. 555 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 9: And then I believe it was a Friday, his attorney 556 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 9: came up and he was wearing a T shirt and shorts. 557 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 9: It was in the summer, and I thought, well, that's 558 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 9: odd that he's up here in a Friday looking for me, 559 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 9: and I didn't even know he was in the building. 560 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 9: And he came into my office and said, okay, he'll 561 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 9: agree to plead to one count for each of the victims, 562 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 9: and agreed to the maximum. 563 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 10: Sentence of thirty years, which is unheard of. 564 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 9: It's completely unheard of, and I can't think of another 565 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 9: case of my career where that's happened. 566 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 6: I mean, in my opinion, he deserved life in prison 567 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 6: if we had gone to trial, I mean, all of 568 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 6: his dirty evil you know, that he had done, would 569 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 6: come to light. And I remember thinking what a coward 570 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 6: he was that he didn't want to go to trial. 571 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 6: You know that, basically in my mind, he was taking 572 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 6: the cowardly way out. 573 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 5: Lindsay had one more opportunity to face victor, and she 574 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 5: was not going to squander it. They showed up to 575 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 5: victor sentencing with prepared statements. They'd finally get to use 576 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 5: their own words to stand up to him, to tell 577 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 5: him how he'd hurt them. Jess made them matching bracelets 578 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 5: that said Survivor. Lindsay and Jess arrived at the courthouse. 579 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 5: They grabbed each other's hands. They followed Reese into the 580 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 5: courtroom and took their seats. Reporters were there, but Lindsay 581 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 5: tuned them out. She was focused on what she was 582 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 5: about to do. She stood up facing the judge to speak. 583 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 5: This is her reading the statement she read that day. 584 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: Hello, and get afternoon. 585 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 6: In your honor, I would like to share how the 586 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 6: terrible evil actions of mister Bernard impacted my life when 587 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 6: I was young, and how they still continued to impact 588 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 6: my life. Yeah, I remember, you know, my hands constantly 589 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 6: sweating and like just trying to take deep breaths. But 590 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 6: I think most of them were just like. 591 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,439 Speaker 1: Short gulps of air. 592 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 6: I first recall mister Bernard sexually abusing me when I 593 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 6: was just thirteen years old. He started off by asking 594 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 6: me if I'd ever masturbated. I'd never even heard the 595 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 6: word before. For some reason, he thought I was lying. 596 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 6: I was so focused on what was going to happen. 597 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 6: One by one, we read ours and face the judge, 598 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 6: and I remember looking up at him at one point 599 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 6: when I was reading mine and he was wiping a 600 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 6: tear from his face. I have a little girl of 601 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 6: my own now, and I cannot even fathom how parents 602 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,919 Speaker 6: can give up the most precious things in their life 603 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 6: to a cult leader and a sexual predator. She will 604 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 6: never know the feeling of abandoned me, and she will 605 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 6: never know the feeling that she's not good enough, or 606 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 6: pretty enough, or skinny enough. She will never be punished 607 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 6: for smiling too much. She will never be yelled at 608 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 6: and made to feel ashamed for being full of energy 609 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 6: and excitement. She will never be spit in the face 610 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 6: by someone for simply sharing her opinion and standing up 611 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 6: for herself. She will never feel that she can't be 612 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 6: anything she wants to be. She will always feel protected 613 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 6: and loved. I know all these things because I am 614 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 6: her mother. I didn't want Victor to remember me as 615 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 6: some person in the background who maybe was scared of him. 616 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 6: He did not see this coming. He did not expect 617 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 6: me who he had to make share at every meal. 618 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 6: Because I was afraid to talk, be the one to 619 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 6: bring him and the whole thing down to the ground. 620 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 6: I wanted him to hear my voice and hear my 621 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 6: words and know that I did this to him. I 622 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 6: helped put him in jail, and that Victor from then 623 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 6: on would forever be known as a pedophile. He wouldn't 624 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 6: be known anymore as a man of God, or a 625 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 6: shepherd or anything like that. He would be known as 626 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 6: a pedophile who did these horrific things to children. Because 627 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 6: of what mister Bernard did. I used to feel so 628 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 6: alone and helpless. But he is the one who is alone, 629 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 6: and he will die alone. My heart's beating so fast 630 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 6: right now. 631 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 5: Victor looked straight ahead while she talked. When it was 632 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 5: his turn to speak, he stood in handcuffs and shackles. 633 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: He said. 634 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 5: He was deeply sorrowful. God is good, he said, and 635 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 5: his word is faithful and true. I have not walked 636 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 5: in his goodness. 637 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 6: And then I think that's when the judge gave his 638 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 6: you know, handed out the sentence to him. I think 639 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 6: it was fifty nine counts of sexual abuse and he 640 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 6: was getting thirty years, which I mean fifty nine counts. 641 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,439 Speaker 4: That is that number is so low. 642 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 6: Ten years of living in that Yeah, that number is 643 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 6: very low. 644 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 5: Victor was charged with fifty nine counts, but only pled 645 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 5: guilty to two. There was a press conference after the hearing. 646 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 5: Rees stood to one side, jessin Lindsay sat behind a 647 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 5: large wooden table, a cluster of microphones in front of them. 648 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 5: They often looked at each other as they talked. Sometimes 649 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 5: they exchanged a little smile. 650 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 11: You're explaining your emotions for. 651 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 5: It's an overwhelming feeling, you know, it's every day. 652 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 8: That we deal with us together. 653 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 6: But the truth, everyone knows the truth of what happened 654 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 6: to us, and I think that's what's most important to us. 655 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 10: Yeah, and now we can. 656 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:15,240 Speaker 11: Move on completely. 657 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 6: I mainly just remember being so happy Jess and I 658 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 6: were together, knowing that we were the two youngest of 659 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 6: the maidens and. 660 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: Going through all of that together. 661 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 6: And then I remember looking at her and just being 662 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 6: so thankful that we had gotten through this together, we 663 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 6: had put him in jail together, that we survived all 664 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 6: of it. It almost gets me feeling even more powerful. 665 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 6: You know that Victor tried all those years and I 666 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 6: was his downfall. 667 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: Next time on the turning, I don't care what happens 668 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: when Jesus Christ comes back. Whatever happens to me, it 669 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: cannot possibly be worse than this. That thought scared me. 670 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 2: The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 671 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 2: It's written and produced by Alan Lance, Lesser and Me. 672 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 2: Our story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed 673 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 2: by James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact 674 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 2: checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Our executive producers are John 675 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 2: Parratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvel 676 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 2: and Nikki Etur at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us 677 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 2: on Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out 678 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 2: via email The Turning at Rococo punch dot com I 679 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 2: America Lance thanks for listening.