1 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: So we'll talk about Greece. More than a decade after 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: we saw those bailouts and those horrible austerity measures, Greece 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: has been pulled from the brink of bankruptcy and the 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: country very much economically on the rebound, in fact, to 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: the point of which it's on the customer regaining a 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: series of investment grade ratings. Here to talk about the 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: economic outlook for the country in light of rising interest rates. 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: What's happening with the slowdown that we're seeing, certainly evidence 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: spy today's PMI data. At the core of Europe is 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: the Greek Prime Minister. He is, of course, kyriakosmister Tagers, minister, 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: Prime Minister. Thank you very much in d for your time. 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great week in New York 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: and it's fantastic that you can take some time to 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: join us here at Bloomberg. 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 2: Well, thank you. 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: We are starting to we are starting to see an 17 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: economic slow down in Europe. We are starting to see 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Germany slowing down, We're seeing France slowing down. How do 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: you think that's going to reple into your economy. 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I'm happy to report that the 21 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: Greek economy has proven particularly resilient. We will have significant 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: growth rates for twenty twenty three. I expect growth in 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 2: excess of two percent, and my goal has always been 24 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: to significantly exceed the Eurozone growth average growth and I 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: think this is a success taking into consideration everything that 26 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: had happened to Greece over the past decades. So I 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: think Greece is back for good. We just won our 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: second mandate, we have a very clear reform agenda. We 29 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: just got to investment grade, which was an important milestone 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: for the country after thirteen very difficult years. And if 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 2: you look at all the indicators, I think we will 32 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: do significantly better than the Herozone average, and I'm curstiously 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: optimistic that we can maintain this growth track for the 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: long term. 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: So what's your goal then, economically for twenty twenty four, 36 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 3: in light of potential four percent interest rates from the 37 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: ECB for longer. 38 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, the fact that we got to 39 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: investment in great helps us with our borrowing costs, and 40 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: this is of course significant for public finances. But we've 41 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: also been unapologetic about maintaining physical discipline. We understand how 42 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 2: important this is for global capital markets. Looking at Greece. 43 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: We will have a primary surplus ofo point seven percent 44 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: this year and a higher primary surplus in twenty twenty four, 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: and we feel that we can meet these physical targets 46 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: without compromising our growth. If you look at tourist numbers, 47 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: they were remarkable this year, and there seems to be 48 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: a trend in Europe in spite of the recession. People 49 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: continue to travel, and they seem to continue to prefer 50 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: Greece over maybe other Mediterranean destinations. 51 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: It definitely does, by the way, well you should, you. 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: Should, you should, Alex, you should take that. And Greece 53 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: is a lovely country to visit, and not just during 54 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 2: the very hot months of July and August. We were 55 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 2: able to being able to expand our tourism season and 56 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: attract significant investment in sustainable tourism. 57 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Okay, actually, so I'd like to talk to you about that. 58 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: I managed to avoid it this year, but I know 59 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: plenty of people that didn't. It got very hot in Greece, 60 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: it got very hot around the Mediterranean this year. I 61 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: talk to people in Scandinavia and they think that they 62 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: are going to be the big beneficiaries of this. They 63 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: think that people will no longer want to travel to 64 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: places like Greece if it's forty five degrees and there 65 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: are fires burning, What do you think the long term 66 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: trajectory is for greet tourism If we are going to 67 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: see this climate this climate change sticking. 68 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: Well, I disagree with this hypothesis. People still enjoy the 69 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: hot Mediterranean and they do want to come to the 70 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: Mediterranean and to Greece in particular during the summer because 71 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: they like to spend time at the beach. If anything, 72 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: I would argue that climate change is an opportunity for 73 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: us to expand our tourism season. Yes, it may be 74 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: hot to come to Greece in July and August, but 75 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: we will always have enough people interested to come to 76 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: Greece during those two months. But we have now more 77 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: people interested in coming to Greece in March and April 78 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: or October and November. People interested to come to visit 79 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: our cities year round, and expanding our toursm season has 80 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: always been an important priority for us, and I think 81 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: guy that there will be more people who, given the choice, 82 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: will choose not to take their holidays in July or August, 83 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: not just because it may be too hot, but because 84 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: it's too crowded. So for us, it's a great opportunity 85 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: to expand our toursm season and also to open new 86 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: destinations on the mainland for people to explore. So there's 87 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: it's still going to be some time until the Scandinavian 88 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: beaches or the Danish or Swedish beaches are going to 89 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: compete with the Greek beaches. I don't see this happening 90 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 2: anytime soon. 91 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: I'll pass that message on next time I see them. 92 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: You did face some criticism though, in the way that 93 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: you handle the wildfires this year. What lessons do you 94 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: think you learned? 95 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 2: Look, I mean climate, The climate crisis is here, and 96 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: it's here for good. We've always had wildfires in the Mediterranean, 97 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 2: but we had particularly intense wildfires this year, and we 98 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: also had unprecedented floods. So it's very clear that we 99 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: need to focus more on show term adaptation. And this 100 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: is of course a case I'm also making to my 101 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 2: European colleagues. We spend trillions of euros on long term mitigation, 102 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: and rightly so, because we want to be leaders in 103 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 2: the climate transition, but we also need to support people 104 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: when they lose their livelihoods. Or houses as a result 105 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: of climate disasters today, so we need to be much 106 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: more effective in dealing with these disasters. We've made good progress. 107 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: For example, in Greece we have a one one two 108 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: emergency number which we used very successfully to evacuate people 109 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: and make sure that we save lots of lives. This 110 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: is something, for example, that was not present in Maui, 111 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: And when I look at the Maui disaster, it's so 112 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: painful because we had gone through similar disasters five years ago. 113 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: But we learned from them and we are using technology 114 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: in a much smarter way today to make sure that 115 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: at least we can save people's lives. 116 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: The climate crisis is going to cost more money in 117 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: terms of either dealing with events or also where you 118 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: get your energy. Where you're going to get reliable, affordable 119 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 3: energy from and where do you get it? 120 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we get it from the wind 121 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: in the sun. We are affordable. It is affordable, it 122 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: is reliable, it is cheaper. It is reliable because we 123 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: have lots of sun and lots of wind. But of 124 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: course it will not do the trick on itself. But 125 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: Greece is one of the top ten producers of renewable 126 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: energy from the wind of the sun. We have twelve 127 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: gigawats of installed wind and sun energy in Greece and 128 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: much more to come. But of course in the shorter 129 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 2: Median term, we will also need to rely on natural 130 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: gas as a transition fuel. And there's a case to 131 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: be made that Greece is playing a very important role 132 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: in the European energy system because we are also an 133 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 2: entry point for natural gas to serve not just the 134 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: Eastern Europe, but even pumping gas up to Ukraine. So 135 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: Greece's all as a pillar of geopolitical and energy stability 136 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: in the Eastern Mediterranian and then has certainly been enhanced 137 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: after Russia's invasion into Ukraine. 138 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: Promise to One of the other effects of climate change 139 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: could be that we face within Europe even greater pressure 140 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: from migration. How destructive could that be to the forces 141 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: that bind Europe the EU together right now? How damaging 142 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: could it be to institutions such as the European Union? 143 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: Could we see those institutions once again fraying at the 144 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: edges because of the pressure that is being applied. And 145 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: what do you think needs to happen now in order 146 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: to try and divert that crisis. I know you've had 147 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: talks with President Dwin recently. Let's talk about how that 148 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: could progress in terms of dealing with the issue. But 149 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: how do you see the European Union doing more on 150 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: this matter. 151 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: Well, obviously there are long term solutions addressing the root 152 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: causes of migration, but these are going to take time. 153 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: As far as the short term solutions, we need to 154 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: do two things. We need to be ruthless in terms 155 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: of breaking the smugglers networks that benefit from desperate people 156 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: who they put on boats which are clearly not seaworthy. 157 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: But at the same time we need to balance that 158 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: by offering legal pathways to Migro, to those who can 159 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: come to Europe and who can also help us with 160 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: our economic growth. Look at Greece, for example, we're bringing 161 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: our employment down. We already have labor shortages in secutors 162 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: such as agriculture, so we want to do bilateral deals, 163 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: but we want these people to come on our own 164 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: terms and to come safely. 165 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 3: Prime Minister, we do have to leave it there. It's 166 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: such a pleasure to catch up with you. Thank you 167 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: so very much. Prease joining us here. Thank you come 168 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: back