1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Daybreak Ereate podcast, available every morning 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 2: on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. It's Thursday, the 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: twenty eighth of November in London. I'm Stephen Carroll. 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: And Imana Edwards. Coming up today. French borrowing costs match 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 3: Greek levels for the first time, as France's finance minister 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 3: warns the country risks losing control. 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: Analysis from Bloomberg Economics suggests the Chancellor's tax hikes could 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: cost UK businesses one hundred and thirty thousand jobs. 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 3: Plus facing a much higher rate of rejection. Research shows 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 3: black graduates are twice as likely to be denied top 12 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: jobs in the UK. 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: Let's start with a roundup of our top stories. 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 3: France's finance minister says the country risks losing control if 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: it doesn't pass a budget. Antoine Armond was speaking to 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 3: France's BFMTV as the country has seen its borrowing costs 17 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 3: rise over the looming crisis. The government faces a potential 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 3: no confident vote over the budget, which could house Prime 19 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 3: Minister Michelle Barnier within weeks. Our Paris Bureau chief Alan 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 3: Catz says far right leader Marine Le penn is the 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 3: key figure to one. 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 4: Is she going to vote to overthrow Barnier's government or not. 23 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 4: The trend has been, at least in her rhetoric for 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 4: the last couple of days a week or so, has 25 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 4: been more and more strident and seems more and more 26 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 4: likely that she would vote for that. That said, it 27 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 4: could all just be political brinksmanship and she's just trying 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 4: to extract some concessions from him, and she might sort 29 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 4: of veer away at the last minute, and we really 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 4: don't know for the moment what's going to happen. 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 3: Our Paris bureau chief there Alan Katz, he was speaking 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 3: after the French finance minister said he's prepared to make 33 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: concessions on the budget to avoid the government being toppled. 34 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 3: And this perhaps is an important point to linger on 35 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 3: just a moment because as a result of that we 36 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 3: have seen French over German spreads come down. They're now 37 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: eighty three basis points from an earlier high of eighty six, 38 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: so that is important. Barnier does face another hurdle today, though, 39 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: when left wing parties have called a vote in the 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: National Assembly to repeal major reforms to the pension system, 41 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: which will pass last year. 42 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Without easing of French bond deals. 43 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: Comes after a number of unhappy milestones on markets over 44 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: the political turmoil. The ten year yields matched Greece's for 45 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: the first time in trading a little earlier after the 46 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: spread over German yells widened to the most since twenty twelve. Yesterday, 47 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: Klaus Bader, Global Chief Economists Associated General says market spheres 48 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 2: may prove to be overblown. 49 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 5: We might want to talk this up to be a crisis, 50 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 5: but it is not. It can still turn into a crisis. 51 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 5: And much of course, if the responsibility lies on the 52 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 5: extreme right in France, are they going to be the 53 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 5: greatest ruptors or are they going to support the minority 54 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 5: government of Bonnie to try to get in particularly the 55 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 5: fiscal house in order and of course you know what 56 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 5: they call friends lolli. Is the population going to put 57 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 5: up with what has to be done in order to 58 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 5: get public finances back on an even keel. 59 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 2: Class Bader from SUSAGE General there speaking earlier on Bloomberg Radio, 60 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 2: France's finances will face scrutiny from SMP Global Ratings on Friday, 61 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: which could be the next catalyst for market moves, thus, 62 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: after both Fitch and Moody's gave it a negative outlook 63 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: last month. 64 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 3: Back to the UK, the tax rises on UK employers 65 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: announced in last month's budget could cost up to one 66 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: hundred and thirty thousand jobs. That is, according to new 67 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: analysis by Bloomberg Economics of Chancellor Rachel Reeves, twenty six 68 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: billion pounds of tax hikes. They say if bosses deal 69 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: with higher employer national insurance contributions by reducing employment, it 70 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: could mean the jobless rate rising by as much as 71 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 3: zero point four percentage points. The base case from Bloomberg 72 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: Economics is that the impact of Reeve's employer tax hike 73 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: will be spread evenly between prices, wage growth, hours worked, 74 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: and profit margins. 75 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: The UK's pharmaceutical, medical, and transport equipment industries will be 76 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: among the most exposed to any new tariffs which could 77 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: be imposed by Donald Trump's administration. That's according to UN 78 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: data analyzed by mckenzy's Global Institute, which shows the US 79 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 2: as the top export destination for nine UK sectors. That's 80 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: greater than the exposure for similar industries in France and Germany. 81 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's UK Economy Reporter arena, and Gal says the country 82 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: faces substantial risk. 83 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 6: The UK economy is definitely more exposed to US tariffs 84 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 6: than we think it is. 85 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: The UK likes to think of hisself. 86 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 6: As a services superpower, which of course it is, so 87 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 6: two thirds of our trade with. 88 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: The US actually is in services. However, the UK is 89 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: not immune to Trumpterv's. 90 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Arena and Girls speaking. Their trade between America and 91 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: Britain was worth an excess of three hundred billion pounds 92 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: in the year et the end of March, but almost 93 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: two thirds of that came from services, which are not 94 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: expected to be hit by tariffs. 95 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 3: Donald Trump had dinner with Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, the 96 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 3: president Alex Marra Lago Estate in Florida last night. Zuckerberg 97 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: and Trump have had a consentious relationship in the past. 98 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: In January twenty twenty one, Facebook banned the then president 99 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: in the wake of the attack on the US capital. However, 100 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: the two men have recently made a men Zuckerberg called 101 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: Trump's response to his first assassination attempt badass, and congratulated 102 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 3: him on his recent election win. I don't think that's 103 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 3: the word I've ever said on radio before. 104 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: Seven, first time for everything. 105 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the US is weighing additional curves on sales of 106 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 2: semiconductor equipment and AI memory chips to China. The latest restrictions, 107 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: which may be unveiled as soon as next week, would 108 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 2: stop short of earlier proposals and defect fewer Huawei suppliers. 109 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: His Bloomberg's Wi Wu, we are seeing that. 110 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 7: The bidministration is weighing additional measures to fan US access 111 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 7: to equipment and the AI memory chips, but at a 112 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 7: sent time. Previously we reported that there's going to be 113 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 7: a six supplier cell sanction, but now what it looks 114 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 7: like the Biden mustration is only through section two. 115 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: So that was Bloomberg's w Wu, who says measures following 116 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: months of deliberations by US officials and negotiations with allies 117 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: and in Japan and the Netherlands. The Biden administration has 118 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 2: also faced intense lobbying by American chip equipment makers, who've 119 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: warned that tougher measures would hurt their businesses. 120 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: Black applicants are twice as likely to be denied top 121 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: graduate jobs in the UK. That is according to new 122 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 3: research from consultancy Bane in partnership with the Black Talent Charter. 123 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: Bloomberg's at tewa Adebayo has the story. 124 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 8: Black graduates apply for more roles in finance, law and 125 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 8: professional services, but are half as likely to receive an offer, 126 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 8: and a new survey shows that rejection rates for those 127 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 8: applying from outside the country's leading universities are even higher. 128 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 8: That's a factor that does not apply to non black applicants, 129 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 8: according to the analysis. The findings come after Bloomberg reported 130 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 8: that city firms are pulling back on diversity efforts. More broadly, 131 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 8: Natasha Ferguson, COO of diversity charity the Taylor Bennett Foundation, 132 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 8: says conditions that some firms prevent progression for ethnic minorities. 133 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 6: The culture attracts young talent in, but the culture pushes 134 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 6: middle talent out. Middle management is where you see the 135 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 6: most concentration of diverse talent at the moment across all sectors. 136 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 8: That was Natasha Ferguson from the Taylor Bennett Foundation. When 137 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 8: it comes to graduates, the research puts the disparity down 138 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 8: to recruitment barriers, including socioeconomic factors and a lack of 139 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 8: knowledge about the corporate world in London. Teewa at a 140 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 8: Bayo Bloomberg Radio. 141 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: Those are your top stories on the markets. The stock 142 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: six hundred is six tenths of one percent higher. The 143 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: cutcarnt also up by six tenths of one percent. US 144 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: markets closed for a holiday. We are seeing oil prices, 145 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: though a touch lower. Brank Crews down three tenths of 146 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: one percent after OPEC plus delayed a planned meeting from 147 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: Sunday until next Thursday. Now, in a moment, we'll get 148 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: more on the political turmoil here in France, plus get 149 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: further details of that Bloomberg Economics analysis on the effect 150 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: of the Chancellor's tax hi gun employers. 151 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: But another story that I've. 152 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: Been reading this morning that I want to talk to 153 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: you about is Beth Code from Bloomberg Opinion has been 154 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: writing about advice from Warren Buffett, but not about investing 155 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: about life, Okay. 156 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: So she points to the fact that actually. 157 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: If you read it detail the things that Warren Buffett 158 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: writes oftentimes when he's making statements or he actually kind 159 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 2: of couches them with some life advice. And she points 160 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: to his letter that came out on Monday, which was 161 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: about donating a billion dollars in Berkshire. Hathaway shares to 162 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,559 Speaker 2: for family foundations as actually advice on how you should 163 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: leave behind a strong family, or how to leave behind 164 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: a strong family and a lasting legacy. So this includes 165 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: things like don't create dynasties. He says, you should be leaving. 166 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 3: Children just in case I was thinking of creating. 167 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: Indeed, yes, exactly. 168 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: I know there are many keen listeners wondering that when 169 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: willynasty before Yeah, but this is the idea that you 170 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 2: should leave your children enough so they can do anything, 171 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: but not enough that they can do nothing. 172 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 3: Yes, I liked the wording of that specific advice. Parents 173 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: should leave their children enough so they can do anything, 174 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 3: but not enough that they can do nothing. I'm not 175 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: sure how many people this will pass that option, indeed, 176 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 3: but it's good to know that Warren Buffettans, through these 177 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 3: thought processes, has decided you should not leave too much 178 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: to your children. 179 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 2: Indeed, and another point, given that as Thanksgiving in the US, 180 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: to also acknowledge your good fortune and as he points out, 181 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: blessed Indeed he's indeed, he's known for a course pointing 182 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 2: out that he attributes out of a success to luck 183 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: as well a little bit less luck, though perhaps for 184 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: the government in France, as we've been talking about this morning. 185 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: Thank you, the Finance Minister Antoine Armand saying he's prepared 186 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: to make concessions on the twenty twenty five budget to 187 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: avoid opposition parties toppling the government. We've got Bloomberg opinion columns. 188 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: Leonel Laurent with us from Paris for more. Leonelle, good morning. 189 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 2: At this day, how close does the government look to collapsing? 190 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 9: So just to understand how we'd get to that collapse, 191 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 9: it would come from a no confidence vote after a budget, right, 192 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 9: and this does not happen in history. You're not supposed 193 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 9: to get and you haven't traditionally got this kind of 194 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 9: rejection of the government after the budget. Now, what you 195 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 9: don't want is what's happened recently, which is a coin flip. 196 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: Right, those are the odds. 197 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 9: La Pen has become increasingly vocal about a kind of 198 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 9: no confidence motion, and even if on balance still looks 199 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 9: incredibly risky for her to do such a move, you 200 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 9: don't want a queen flip. So I think it's quite 201 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 9: sensible for the government to say we will look at 202 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 9: concessions and try to bring the odds of that down, 203 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 9: because I still think you just do not want a 204 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 9: situation like this to hang on a kind of fifty 205 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 9: fifty odds. 206 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Leon know, we heard from Marine La Penn's 207 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 3: party that the National Rally have said they hadn't decided 208 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: whether they would basically bring the government down or not, 209 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: so they've left that card still to be played in 210 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 3: the meantime. Then the Finance Minister Antoine Armand saying that 211 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 3: they are ready to make concessions. So that's the next 212 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: step here is it they see if they can find 213 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: something that will make this budget acceptable to Marine la Penn. 214 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 3: Because this seems to have influenced bond spreads a little, 215 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 3: we're seeing a little bit of a retreat in that 216 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: spread of French oaights over German buns. 217 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 9: Absolutely, and it makes sense because we're still quite in 218 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 9: the realm of manageable risk and manageable brinkmanship. La Penn 219 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 9: has made clear what she calls her red lines. She's 220 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 9: talked about, for example, taxes on electricity. The problem here 221 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 9: is basically that France and need a budget, and it 222 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 9: needs to also have a budget that's acceptable to markets 223 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 9: and European partners. So that means a lot of pain 224 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 9: for everybody. And obviously in France we are not a 225 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 9: country that is used to quote unquote austerity or even 226 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 9: any kind of budget discipline. So people are understandably shouting 227 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 9: the loudest and beating their chest and saying enough, this 228 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 9: is really unfair. So there is I think a bit 229 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 9: of corovy to this, and I think there is quite 230 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 9: sensible attempt to find some concession that gives Lapenn the 231 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 9: win that she's looking for and keeps the government. 232 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: Going, because of course, you know the options. If the 233 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 2: government does fall, there can't be an election until next year, 234 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: so we would end up essentially in a political limbus 235 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: situation that surely doesn't benefit anyone. 236 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 9: Well, the thing is, I don't think we want to 237 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 9: know what that's like. What kind of worries me about 238 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 9: the debate of the moment is we are already starting 239 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 9: to say a bit like the US shutdown. When that 240 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 9: comes along, we're starting to openly say, oh, what would happen, Well, 241 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 9: it wouldn't be so bad because we go to a 242 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 9: sort of rollover budget. The institutions would sort of take 243 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 9: over this kind of feeling that actually it wouldn't be 244 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,359 Speaker 9: so bad. And that is exactly the kind of mentality 245 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 9: you do not want in a country like France, the 246 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 9: size of France and with parties like the Pens and 247 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 9: min Onstan's cloak. 248 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 3: The power and just there's a pension vote happening today. 249 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: Is this linked, Lionel or is this a separate. 250 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 9: This is separate, So there's actually less attention paid to 251 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 9: this because I think there's less Likelihod of it passing. 252 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 9: The problem though, is that to get it not to pass, 253 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 9: we're seeing all sorts of parliamentary antics that are more 254 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 9: like sort of the UK dream Brexit or even the 255 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 9: UK in the nineteen seventies. 256 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: It's bilibustering. 257 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 9: It's all sorts of tactics to basically stop this motion 258 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 9: getting through. I think if it ever did get through, 259 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 9: that would be a huge game change, because if you 260 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 9: have a France that is rolling back pension reform, rolling 261 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 9: back reforms at a time when it should be trying 262 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 9: to find even more savings, I think all bets are 263 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 9: off in terms of how the markets would react. 264 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 2: Okay, Leonel Rol Bloomberg Opinion, Columbust, thank you very much 265 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: for joining us from Paris. You can read later spaces. 266 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: By the way, Bloomberg dot Com Forward slash opinion. Let's 267 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: go next to this new analysis from Bloomberg Economics that 268 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 2: says that tax risers for UK businesses announced by the 269 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: Chancellor last month could cost as many as one hundred 270 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 2: and thirty thousand jobs. That's if employers choose to pass 271 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: on the burden of the twenty six billion pounds in 272 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: tax hikes, which comes mainly from changes to national insurance 273 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: contributions for employers. We've got Bloomberg's CHEF UK economist Dan 274 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: Hansen with us for more. Dan, how did you arrive 275 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: at this number and how likely an outcome do job 276 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: cut seem from these tax risers. 277 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 10: Yeah, So what we did in terms of coming to 278 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 10: the number is that we looked at sort of some 279 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 10: we're trying to put some guardrails around this debate, I 280 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 10: think because you read, you know, over the past few weeks, 281 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 10: you've read a lot about what may or may not 282 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 10: happen with this, and we were trying to just from 283 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 10: at least from a macro perspective, assess, you know, look 284 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 10: at how sensitive firms have been to rising costs in 285 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 10: the past, and apply a sort of top end estimate 286 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 10: to how many how many job losses there could be, 287 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 10: and also on the flip side, how much prices could 288 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 10: rise if they choose to choose to adjust to the 289 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 10: to the higher NIX costs through that channel as well, 290 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 10: because of course there are lots of ways they could 291 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 10: sort of take this on. We know it's coming, it's 292 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 10: possible they you know, wages don't increase as fast as possible. 293 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 10: They change their hiring hands or even made people off 294 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 10: squeeze their margins or put it through prices. So we 295 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 10: were just looking at what are the sort of we 296 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 10: think of the sort of extremities. You know, our base 297 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 10: case is that it's probably spread across the range of 298 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 10: these things, and no one is sort of the dominating factor. 299 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 10: But if there is one that dominates, you know, the 300 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 10: scale of it isn't insignificant. 301 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, It's really interesting, isn't. 302 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 3: Because as soon as this measure was announced, this tax 303 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: raising measure, there's a lot of political debate about how 304 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: exactly this was going to find its way into or 305 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: not affecting workers and their pay packets and their higher 306 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: ability and the hours they work and all the rest, 307 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 3: and the politics very quickly muddies the water. So really 308 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 3: interesting to see your analysis down and the assessment as 309 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: you're making. So what sort of shift would that mean 310 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 3: for the overall UK labor market. 311 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 10: Well, I mean one hundred and thirty thousand jobs. It 312 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 10: sounds like a lot of jobs. But you know, if 313 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 10: you think about it in terms of the unemployment rate, 314 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 10: it's zero point four percentage point on the unemployment rate. 315 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 10: So the unemployment rate now is at four point three percent, 316 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 10: it would take you up to you know, four point 317 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 10: seven percent. I think that doesn't sound huge, but actually 318 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 10: we've got into a place, I think in the UK 319 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 10: where we're so used to a four percent unemployment rate. 320 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 10: If we're suddenly closing in on five percent unemployment rate, 321 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 10: I think the sort of dynamics change, particularly when you 322 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 10: think about well, there are two. 323 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: Things to think about. 324 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 10: One is, obviously you've got the Bank of England and 325 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 10: the interest rate angle. But the second is that historically 326 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 10: there's a very tight relationship between job security and how 327 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 10: much individuals tend to save. If you're worried about your 328 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 10: job security, you tend to be to tend to save 329 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 10: more money. So you get this sort of feedback loop 330 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 10: on the economy where you get job loss is but 331 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 10: also people become more cautious about their spending, so it 332 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 10: becomes a sort of self fulfilling prophecy. And I think 333 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 10: that's the interesting the interesting one in terms of how 334 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 10: it would play out, because I think no one's really 335 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 10: expecting the jobs market. Everyone's sort of seeing the jobs 336 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 10: market loosening modestly but not cratering. You know, if you 337 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 10: have this this sort of step change, I think it 338 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 10: would just create a sort of obviously it's a negative dynamic, 339 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 10: but a dynamic that not many people are expecting for 340 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 10: the coming year. 341 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: What's the alternative choice for companies if they don't go 342 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: down the job cutting roots, is that price rises? 343 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 10: Yeah, so, I mean there are quite a lot so 344 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 10: they can It's not just job losses. Even in terms 345 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 10: of thinking about employment, it's it's ours as well. Think 346 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 10: about total hours work. They can scale back the number 347 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 10: of hours people work. They can take the hit in 348 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 10: their margins. But if you look at the data on margins, 349 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 10: at least in a macro level, they look like they're 350 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 10: sort of squeezed at the moment, So that may not 351 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 10: be somewhere that firms can sort of take take the 352 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 10: cost your right prices is another another channel. Slower wage 353 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 10: growth is another way they can deal with it. And 354 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 10: the final one, which I think is very unlikely, but 355 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 10: it is sort of if you look in an economics 356 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 10: textbook it will tell you it's the possibility is faster 357 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 10: productivity growth, which is you just become more efficient so 358 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 10: you're costly. Yeah, you know this is what we needed 359 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 10: to solve the productivity cost. 360 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: I've heard you tell me before that we needed as well. Yeah. 361 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 3: So yeah, that's the conundru in the Bank of England 362 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 3: have been wrestling with for a very long time. Then, Dan, 363 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 3: so what does this mean for the BOE If you've 364 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 3: got you know, this complex, complex dynamics then playing out 365 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: in the in the market. I suppose they are doing 366 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 3: the same analysis that you're doing to try and work 367 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: out which of these leavers businesses are going to pull 368 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 3: to try and minimize the impact they feel. 369 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I mean, I must be honest. I was 370 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 10: listening to Bailey at ts the Treasury Select Committee and 371 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 10: he said to Harriet Balwin, who is the used to 372 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 10: be the chair of the TSC, that they writing to 373 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 10: the TSC about sort of some of this sort of 374 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 10: sensitivity analysis. So I thought that sounds like a good idea, 375 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 10: so we might have have a go at that. So 376 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 10: the Bank's going to come out and say something about 377 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 10: this as seeming that letter gets published as well. I 378 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 10: think all forecasters, as far as I can tell at 379 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 10: the moment, are taking the assumption that it's sort of 380 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 10: evenly spread or broadly spread across all those different channels 381 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 10: we just discussed. So if you sort of look at 382 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 10: it through that lens, the impact isn't going to be 383 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 10: sort of anyone. No one channel dominates, there's no real 384 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 10: reason to think it's going to change the course of 385 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 10: the Bank of England. But obviously if one of these, 386 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 10: if employment dominates, the employment channel dominates, obviously that's calls 387 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 10: for interest rates potentially to be cust a little bit faster. 388 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 10: If the price is channel dominates, that obviously calls for 389 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 10: interest rates to cut to be CUSS a little bit slower. 390 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 10: I mean, the main point is that we just don't know, 391 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 10: and that's the half of the point of this analysis 392 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 10: is to put some sort of bands around where we 393 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 10: where we might head up end up. And also that 394 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 10: goes to where the bank are now, which is this 395 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 10: argument around gradual rate cuts is that they're just not 396 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 10: because this, This could go one way or the other. 397 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: They're just not sure. 398 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 10: They're discontinuing to sort of move it at a slow pace. 399 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 2: But it was interesting to hear the Chancellor when she 400 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,479 Speaker 2: spoke to the CBI conference saying that essentially this this 401 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: was it, and that she wouldn't be extracting more from businesses. 402 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: I mean, is there a fear that you know that 403 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: there actually she might need to do more given the 404 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 2: fiscal situation down the line? Of course, we're you know, 405 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: we're told not to expect of the fiscal event until 406 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 2: next year. 407 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 10: But yeah, I mean, you know, they during the during 408 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 10: the election campaign, they labor said that they wouldn't raise 409 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 10: you know, seventy five percent of the tax space. They 410 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 10: made a commitment to do that, which is why we 411 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 10: ended up with this employer nix rise because they needed 412 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 10: to raise so much money. We've obviously had a rise 413 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 10: in interest rates since the budget, which will eat into 414 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 10: the very small amount of headroom that she has against 415 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 10: her fiscal her fiscal target. I mean, I think what 416 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 10: it tells you making that promise is that they'll attempt 417 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 10: to do it through squeezing the benefit bill, which is 418 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 10: obviously what Kirstan has been talking about recently and sort 419 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 10: of getting people back to work and creating work incentives. 420 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 10: So I think, you know, the world is the world 421 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 10: is very uncertain, and the amount of headroom that was 422 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 10: left in the budget against the fiscal rules was very small, 423 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 10: and it's not hard to see how you'd have to 424 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 10: come back and say we need to tighten fiscal policy 425 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 10: a little bit more to reach our goals. So I 426 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 10: think the promise just tells you that it will probably 427 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 10: come on the spending side and not the tax side. 428 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe. 429 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 2: You're a morning brief on the stories making news from 430 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: London to Wall Streets and beyond. 431 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 11: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning, on Apple, 432 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 11: Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts. 433 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: You can also listen live each morning on London Dab Radio, 434 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com. 435 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 11: Our flagship New York station is also available on your 436 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 11: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 437 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 11: I'm Caroline Hepka. 438 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Carol. Join us again tomorrow morning for 439 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: all the news you need to start your day right 440 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg Daybreak Europe,