Speaker 1: Episode four sixty one, How to get to the root
Speaker 1: of clutter and solve it for good with Katie Wells.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity and life. Here your hosts Jen
Speaker 2: and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. I'm gonna cut Jill
Speaker 1: off copyright in friendman. I don't know if that's I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's legal. Just we can't say.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: We are so excited, Wait, you have to do the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm Jen, I'm Jill, and we are super excited to
Speaker 1: have another episode about decluttering and specifically the psychology behind
Speaker 1: what I have just coined an hour ago as a deconsumption.
Speaker 1: So we talk about consumption, bringing items into your space
Speaker 1: and how to align that with your values, and Katie
Speaker 1: talks about how to get to the root of why
Speaker 1: it's difficult to purge certain things to deconsume. So it's
Speaker 1: a very paralleled message and so I hope that you
Speaker 1: find if you like, you know how we talk about spending,
Speaker 1: you'll like how she talks about decluttering.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of takeaways from this episode, and
Speaker 3: I would consider myself having already decluttered my life and
Speaker 3: so so much, so many mindset shifts out of this one.
Speaker 3: So it was a really good conversation. I'm excited to
Speaker 3: share it with you all. But first, this episode is
Speaker 3: brought to you by prizes, these little surprise treats that
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Speaker 1: Cards, cash give away.
Speaker 3: We love it so that you can actually buy the
Speaker 3: things that you love and not just add more clutter.
Speaker 3: It's not prizes that are clutter, because we're against that,
Speaker 3: but they are prizes and they are great, so please.
Speaker 1: And maybe some other and some swag, some frugal friends swag,
Speaker 1: and maybe an exclusive Q and A with us. There
Speaker 1: are treats and it's just for our BFFs, our best
Speaker 1: frugal friends, so please apply. It is not a requirement
Speaker 1: that you have pre ordered the book, but based on applicants,
Speaker 1: people who have pre ordered will take priority. Yes, so
Speaker 1: we are excited. We love decluttering episodes. We have a
Speaker 1: ton of them, most recently episode three forty eight Declutter
Speaker 1: your Home in thirty Days. We have episode three to
Speaker 1: how decluttering saves You Money with Ingrid Jansen, and then
Speaker 1: one of my favorite interviews to date, episode two eighty one,
Speaker 1: how to Curate a Life with Less stuff and more
Speaker 1: intention with Christine Platt. She is the Afro Minimalist and
Speaker 1: I love her. I'm obsessed. So those are really good
Speaker 1: ones to check out. But Katie, she's the host of
Speaker 1: the Maximized Minimalist podcast and she's just a really She's
Speaker 1: a well known decluttering expert with a very authentic and
Speaker 1: holistic approach and she is fantastic. She lives in Asheville,
Speaker 1: North Carolina and was affected by the hurricanes. We were
Speaker 1: supposed to have this interview so many times, but both
Speaker 1: Helene and Milton really delayed that. So we were just
Speaker 1: very excited to finally this sit down with her.
Speaker 3: This conversation really did need to happen, and I'm so
Speaker 3: glad it did, and let's let's share it.
Speaker 1: Katie, Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. It's been a
Speaker 1: long time coming to get you on. So this feels
Speaker 1: so good. It feels like the closing of a loop,
Speaker 1: and we're so here for it.
Speaker 5: It feels good. You know, we are so aligned on
Speaker 5: so many levels. So I love being able to come,
Speaker 5: you know, have these conversations in your community and just
Speaker 5: I'm thrilled to just yeah, chat with you all today
Speaker 5: and like to serve you serve your community with some
Speaker 5: value and just help them simplify their lives.
Speaker 3: Next to talking about food, talking about simplifying and decluttering
Speaker 3: seems to be another top topic for our audience, and
Speaker 3: probably because it's where we experience the most rub and
Speaker 3: friction through our lives. We encounter food every day we
Speaker 3: encounter clutter every day, so we're really excited to hear
Speaker 3: a fresh perspective from you on this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was just saying, like, we talk
Speaker 1: about consumption all the time, and you, Katie talk essentially
Speaker 1: like deconsumption, So it's a lot of the same principles
Speaker 1: are just translated into this. So I would love to
Speaker 1: hear what are some of the root causes of clutter
Speaker 1: that you have like defined.
Speaker 5: So many and again, I think when I got into this,
Speaker 5: one thing I really struggled with was like I was
Speaker 5: constantly decluttering to reclutter, and I feel like that's kind
Speaker 5: of what happens to so many of us who kind
Speaker 5: of use, like depend on just like simple strategies that
Speaker 5: can be fruitful in the moment, but they're not giving
Speaker 5: you long term, lasting results, which is what we want. Right,
Speaker 5: And I'm currently writing my first book in a nutshell,
Speaker 5: I think it's important for all of us to get
Speaker 5: curious and identify what I call like our stuff story.
Speaker 5: So all of our stuff story is built differently, and
Speaker 5: it's really like an amalgam of culture.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: You talked about like the consumption part, Like we are
Speaker 5: constantly taught like We're taught how to buy, but we're
Speaker 5: not taught how to live and to declutter. It's just
Speaker 5: bye bye by consume, consume, consume. Since I was watching
Speaker 5: Saturday Morning cartoons as kid, it was like buy the cereal,
Speaker 5: buy this toy, and that sticks with us as we
Speaker 5: grow up. So there's like the modern culture piece that
Speaker 5: influences and shapes our reality and perception of stuff and
Speaker 5: how it adds to our life. What we buy, what
Speaker 5: we declutter, what we struggle to declutter, what we cling
Speaker 5: to we have our You know, one thing I think
Speaker 5: that is so undervalued and under discussed is also there
Speaker 5: is a massive trickle down effect from our parents, or
Speaker 5: our caregivers, or even like our grandparents, because their perception
Speaker 5: of stuff, Like my grandfather lived to one hundred, he
Speaker 5: grew up in the Great Depression.
Speaker 6: They didn't get rid of anything.
Speaker 5: They were frugal because it was like they had to
Speaker 5: be based on survival. And that trickled into my mother
Speaker 5: and that trickled into me. Right, So we have these
Speaker 5: different narratives and beliefs we gain from our caregivers that
Speaker 5: influence all of the things we're going to be talking about. Right,
Speaker 5: and then you have these personal experiences. We were just
Speaker 5: talking before we hit record, like I just lived through
Speaker 5: a natural disaster that is going to impact my psyche
Speaker 5: on some level.
Speaker 6: From a stuff perspective, I'm not so sure, but I.
Speaker 5: Know a heck a lot of people in my community
Speaker 5: in Nashville, North Carolina. It's gonna you're going to start
Speaker 5: to see things differently. And some people are going to
Speaker 5: cling closer to their stuff after this, and some are
Speaker 5: going to go, man, stuff doesn't even matter. I'm ready
Speaker 5: to declutter and simplify, you know, if they have that choice.
Speaker 5: And so again dialing into the roots of that, and
Speaker 5: I think for some of us, it's identifying these pieces.
Speaker 5: It's not about like placing blame, like well, I am
Speaker 5: stuck in scarcity mode because my mom or dad raised
Speaker 5: me that way. I think it's again, it's looking at
Speaker 5: it from the perspective of like this can actually release
Speaker 5: some of that shame that I think a lot of
Speaker 5: us experience when it comes to clutter and understand like
Speaker 5: it's not all our faults, Like it's not our faults,
Speaker 5: and to look at it from a like this is empowering.
Speaker 6: Okay, like this makes.
Speaker 5: Sense to why I buy these things or I aspire
Speaker 5: to be this person, or I struggle to let go
Speaker 5: or I'm not good with habits or whatever it is
Speaker 5: we're telling ourselves now, if we dial in a little
Speaker 5: bit deeper, I mean, like, gosh again, consumption, which I
Speaker 5: know y'all talk a lot about on your show, and
Speaker 5: then like this aspirational identity I think is a big
Speaker 5: piece too. A lot of us buy and accumulate things
Speaker 5: to reflect the person that we're aspiring to. So again
Speaker 5: these different route meanings, the emotional pieces, the psychological pieces,
Speaker 5: I think are just if we can get curious and
Speaker 5: just dial back before we buy something later today or
Speaker 5: the next time we buy something and go like, who
Speaker 5: am I buying this for?
Speaker 6: Am I actually going to use this? And just get curious,
Speaker 6: it can.
Speaker 5: Give us a lot of insight into the personalized reasons
Speaker 5: why we're ending up with clutter and we're ending up
Speaker 5: with less money in our bank account.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: I love the crossover that is happening here. I think
Speaker 3: a lot of our audience will recognize the get curious
Speaker 3: prompt and encouragement because we talk about that a lot
Speaker 3: with money as well, and so there's definitely this deep
Speaker 3: appreciation I think on our part for recognizing that a
Speaker 3: lot of these things that are on the surface that
Speaker 3: might be visible and tangible are actually rooted in something
Speaker 3: not visible or tangible, and to really resolve it, to
Speaker 3: experience better patterns, we're going to have to look at
Speaker 3: those things. It's one of the reasons we say we
Speaker 3: don't start with a budget, We start with looking at
Speaker 3: how you're spending your money, where you're spending your time,
Speaker 3: how you're engaging with your resources. And I think with
Speaker 3: what you're describing, it's just resonating so much to say, Okay,
Speaker 3: don't just throw your things out, don't just get rid
Speaker 3: of them. There's like ten steps before it that needs
Speaker 3: to happen. So speaking of those steps, I don't know
Speaker 3: if it's ten. You're the expert on this, so can
Speaker 3: you talk a little bit to maybe you've talked a
Speaker 3: little bit about how the root causes develop, if there's
Speaker 3: anything more you want to say on that, but then
Speaker 3: how we can also discover them. What is that process
Speaker 3: when it comes to clutter of curiosity?
Speaker 5: I think for a lot of us honestly really starts
Speaker 5: in the declutter process or the consumption process. Those can
Speaker 5: be really either of those two things we experience, you know,
Speaker 5: can really highlight that for us, and sometimes we don't
Speaker 5: know in our heads, like until we actually go to
Speaker 5: declutter the thing right open the drunk drawer. Maybe for
Speaker 5: some of us, it's like perfectionism another common root. Perfectionism
Speaker 5: and procrastination go hand in hand on so many levels
Speaker 5: because we want to do it for whatever reason, you
Speaker 5: know again, culture, whatever reason, we have perfectionistic tendencies. I
Speaker 5: can speak for myself. I always thought, well, the experts say,
Speaker 5: if you want to do it right and do it best,
Speaker 5: then you need to like wipe off your schedule for
Speaker 5: the day and dedicate six hours to declutter my closet
Speaker 5: all in one go, and you have to go through
Speaker 5: this strategic, step by step thing. I could never find
Speaker 5: an elusive six hour chunk of my day to declutter something.
Speaker 5: So because I didn't, I couldn't do that. I didn't
Speaker 5: even want to start. And meanwhile, the clutter builds and
Speaker 5: builds and builds. Procrastination, you know, goes up right along
Speaker 5: with that. So through the process, and if it's something
Speaker 5: like you struggle to get started, just again, a lot
Speaker 5: of us tend to meet some of these things narratives
Speaker 5: like this inner dialogue in our head through the declutter
Speaker 5: pross us with judgment.
Speaker 1: I was that way too.
Speaker 5: I'm kind of my own worst like critics sometimes like
Speaker 5: why is this hard for you? You're smart, like figure
Speaker 5: this out? Everyone else is a perfect home. Anyone else
Speaker 5: ever thought these things? Like what's wrong with me? Why
Speaker 5: am I failing? Like what's like I can do all
Speaker 5: these other things, but I can't manage a home. So again,
Speaker 5: when we are stuck in shame toward ourself about where
Speaker 5: we are with when it comes to our clutter or
Speaker 5: a mess that disarms hope, that disarms us being able
Speaker 5: to take action. And so when those thoughts come up,
Speaker 5: like I'm afraid to let go of this. What if
Speaker 5: I need in the future, I want to do this right?
Speaker 5: Or what's the point whatever it is for you? Say,
Speaker 5: you know, have your judge, cast your judgment if that's
Speaker 5: your immediate thing, like we can't really escape that sometimes
Speaker 5: and then go, you know what, I actually don't feel
Speaker 5: that way. I can declutter that belief about myself. I
Speaker 5: can declutter this idea that decluttering has to look a
Speaker 5: certain way. I can declutter the idea that my identity
Speaker 5: is actually not has nothing to do with my stuff,
Speaker 5: whether it's my clutter, my favorite things, and a lot
Speaker 5: can just come up in that internal dialogue and it
Speaker 5: doesn't have to be like you need to take you know,
Speaker 5: do talk therapy.
Speaker 6: For a year.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I can be fruitful, but it's not always necessary.
Speaker 5: And I would say same goes for those consumption patterns.
Speaker 5: Just practicing the pause and tapping into that internal dialogue.
Speaker 5: I would say, so much can come up for people,
Speaker 5: and it's not always comfortable, y'all know this, but it's
Speaker 5: an opportunity. It's an opportunity to challenge those thoughts and
Speaker 5: to start making different choices and you know, make choices
Speaker 5: that align with your core values. And I feel like
Speaker 5: so many of us are kind of trained through culture
Speaker 5: in all these different ways to make choices that don't
Speaker 5: align with what we actually want life, which is one
Speaker 5: reason we end up with homes filled with clutter, filled
Speaker 5: with stuff, filled with twenty four to seven mass. And
Speaker 5: you know how that impacts us is just beyond and
Speaker 5: so to be able to read claim some of that
Speaker 5: power is huge, and it starts between our ears.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the perfectionism thing is something our listeners and
Speaker 1: we personally, you know, have talked about and struggled through,
Speaker 1: and we even we did a recent episode about it
Speaker 1: with Jess Massey, and I was just wondering, did you
Speaker 1: have like a wake up call like after realizing that
Speaker 1: or was it sudden? Like how did you identify that
Speaker 1: that was something holding you back from succeeding with decluttering?
Speaker 1: And like what did you do to get through it?
Speaker 5: I I've always had perfectionistic tendencies my whole life, but
Speaker 5: it wasn't really through first of all, if you haven't
Speaker 5: if you haven't been able to tell this about me,
Speaker 5: much like y'all, I am very much into like self development,
Speaker 5: like just and part of it was just because I'm curious.
Speaker 6: I always want to get better. I always want to improve.
Speaker 5: And then I got into you know, entrepreneurial world at
Speaker 5: a very young age, and there's that certain aspect where
Speaker 5: that's a big part of that, right starting a business,
Speaker 5: growing a business, And so it was really through identifying
Speaker 5: those tendencies and how they're holding me back in other
Speaker 5: areas in life personally and professionally. But I was like,
Speaker 5: wait a second, this is actually kind of rearing its
Speaker 5: ugly heads through the stuff and declutter process too, so
Speaker 5: that was interesting to experience that. But I agree anytime
Speaker 5: I bring up that perfection piece, it really resonates. And
Speaker 5: even if you identify as someone who's a perfectionist or not,
Speaker 5: the kind of black and white thinking the all or
Speaker 5: nothing has to look this way or what's the point
Speaker 5: all these different thoughts tend to be kind of perfectionist
Speaker 5: perfectionism at.
Speaker 6: The core of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are whole people. So it's like you can
Speaker 1: take if you're if you've identified a struggle in somewhere
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with decluttering or personal finance,
Speaker 1: there is definitely going to be ramification somewhere outside of
Speaker 1: like wherever you identified it. And it's so crazy to
Speaker 1: see how these things we try to compartmentalize, but it's
Speaker 1: just like doesn't work in the long run.
Speaker 6: It doesn't.
Speaker 5: And the shame I think perfectionism for me tends to
Speaker 5: come up so I can avoid shame. It's like if
Speaker 5: I don't try, then I won't fail, right, And so
Speaker 5: many of us have experienced like the oh IDEA cluttered
Speaker 5: my toy room and it looks so beautiful now, and
Speaker 5: then the kids come home and it looks like a
Speaker 5: tornado went through, and that's when that shame piece comes up.
Speaker 5: I did all that work. What's the point, Like, I'm
Speaker 5: a failure? Again, it's the meaning that we are subconsciously
Speaker 5: often assigning this experience, which again, there's a just to
Speaker 5: This was another life changing moment for me when I
Speaker 5: made the core them. I understood the difference between clutter
Speaker 5: and mess because we're kind of sold to it, like
Speaker 5: it's the same thing, Like a messy counter with baby
Speaker 5: bottles and sippy cups and all these things on it
Speaker 5: is not clutter. And so so when we see mess
Speaker 5: or clutter come back, it's a visual signal.
Speaker 6: What's the point? You stink at this? I'll speak for myself, right,
Speaker 6: but a lot of.
Speaker 5: Women and families experiences moms who whomever is the stuff
Speaker 5: manager in your house? Like it's very personal, right, It's like,
Speaker 5: I'm a failure. I stink at this, Like what's the point?
Speaker 5: And I think it's worth its weight in gold to
Speaker 5: be able to And it's not an overnight thing. But
Speaker 5: these same mindset shifts y'all talk about when it comes
Speaker 5: to personal finance, and like you know, pulling the weed
Speaker 5: out by the root is so valuable and sometimes it
Speaker 5: is just talking about it with a girlfriend. Hey, I
Speaker 5: had this like weird thought come up when I was decluttering.
Speaker 5: Have you ever experienced this? What do you think talking
Speaker 5: with it about to your partner or whomever. A lot
Speaker 5: can come up and then you can go, you know what,
Speaker 5: here's how I'm going to do it differently. I can
Speaker 5: actually fit decluttering into my life. I don't have to
Speaker 5: do these marathon sessions. Isn't the only way to make
Speaker 5: propit And I don't know about you, but if I
Speaker 5: ever have a weekend of like free time open up,
Speaker 5: I'm not spending it decluttering.
Speaker 6: I'm going to go do something fun.
Speaker 5: So I think it's beautiful when we give give ourselves
Speaker 5: permission to again declutter the belief declutter these beliefs. And
Speaker 5: I will tell you what if you struggle decluttering with
Speaker 5: certain categories of things.
Speaker 6: Let's say it's like makeup. For me, that was a
Speaker 6: big one.
Speaker 5: I love makeup. So guess what when we tend to
Speaker 5: love something, we tend to accumulate.
Speaker 6: A lot of it.
Speaker 5: I realized I loved makeup and was constantly buying lipstick
Speaker 5: after lipstick after lipstick because I was seeking perfection through
Speaker 5: my looks. Right, if culture can teach us to become
Speaker 5: perfectionists about our looks, they have lifelong customers in their
Speaker 5: pockets buying anything related to look, skincare, makeup, all the
Speaker 5: things right, And the second I went you know what,
Speaker 5: I don't. The lipstick isn't giving me the confidence, right.
Speaker 5: It gives me confidence for whatever one day, and then
Speaker 5: I want the next thing. The goalpost keeps moving. So
Speaker 5: there again, I just can't stress the value of just
Speaker 5: getting curious. Like, it's okay if makeups your thing, but
Speaker 5: if you have eight hundred lipsticks on your vanity and
Speaker 5: you're constantly reaching for something new, that could be indicative
Speaker 5: that we have a root issue going on that we
Speaker 5: can tackle at the heart, versus just trying to declutter
Speaker 5: it on the back end, which, by the way, for
Speaker 5: someone like that can feel extremely challenging because it's not
Speaker 5: just lipstick. They're trying to declutter its confidence in a bottle.
Speaker 5: We don't want to let that go when that's the
Speaker 5: subconscious meaning we've assigned to this stuff.
Speaker 6: Again, the roots go deep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're talking about some pretty identity impacting pieces here
Speaker 3: to really understand ourselves more and why it is that,
Speaker 3: especially if the clutter is what we're purchasing. I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's so many things, as you've discs, that we could
Speaker 3: be finding here that would lead to different roots. Like
Speaker 3: even the same clutter probably could have different roots depending
Speaker 3: on who you are. So it really does sound like
Speaker 3: a very individualized way of approaching this.
Speaker 1: So what are some of the ways that we can
Speaker 1: address these other root causes? How have you done it
Speaker 1: in your life or seeing other people do it effectively?
Speaker 5: I think step one, as we talked about, get curious.
Speaker 5: Step two, you either typically you can part of the
Speaker 5: declutter the belief process is rewriting the belief, so you
Speaker 5: can typically what I tell my students to do is
Speaker 5: to like, all right, if you're feeling a certain way
Speaker 5: about something, then you know, create an affirmation or a
Speaker 5: positive statement that's going to combat that. So, for example,
Speaker 5: for my students to really struggle with like scarcity, like
Speaker 5: what if I need that later, or what if I
Speaker 5: need it later and I don't have the resources to
Speaker 5: get it right. That is a very real thing that
Speaker 5: causes us to cling to our clutter but ultimately doesn't
Speaker 5: get us closer to our goals. So even a statement
Speaker 5: that could help comebat That type of thinking is like,
Speaker 5: I know I attract abundance, piece calm and joy to
Speaker 5: my home, And even if we don't believe it in
Speaker 5: the moment, it can help us step into an identity
Speaker 5: of someone who does feel that way, and I am
Speaker 5: a firm believer. Identity drives behavior, how we act, what
Speaker 5: we buy again, what we keep, what we declutter, all
Speaker 5: the things. So stepping into identity of someone who does
Speaker 5: have an abundance mindset or you know, does help you
Speaker 5: reach your goal of simplifying can be a really fruitful thing.
Speaker 5: And again just to reinforce, even if we don't believe
Speaker 5: it in the moment, it creates this beautiful self improvement
Speaker 5: feedback loop because identity is driving the behavior. Okay, I'm
Speaker 5: attracting abundance. This junk drawer is not helping me live abundantly.
Speaker 5: I can declutter five things today, right, you have to
Speaker 5: prove it to yourself with really small wins. So this
Speaker 5: is where like the mindset piece is important. Affirmations, positive statements,
Speaker 5: whatever you want to call them, can be really fruitful.
Speaker 6: But we have to take action.
Speaker 5: So let's set a timer for five minutes today and
Speaker 5: tackle that junk door. It doesn't have to be perfect
Speaker 5: to be worthwhile, but it's moving the needle and then
Speaker 5: guess what that reinforces at identity. So for me, I
Speaker 5: call I'm like, I'm a simplifier. Me and my community
Speaker 5: were like, we're simplifiers, Like, this is how we roll.
Speaker 5: And so every time you declutter one thing or for
Speaker 5: five minutes, that reinforces at identity and then boom you
Speaker 5: have this beautiful cycle going. You build progress, you build momentum,
Speaker 5: you build true change that lasts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you said something that stood out to me earlier too,
Speaker 3: that I'm curious to tease apart a little more in
Speaker 3: this context of the difference between mess and clutter, and
Speaker 3: I'm wondering how that distinction could help somebody in this
Speaker 3: and maybe even throw more context on this. I don't
Speaker 3: know if this is what you're talking about, but for
Speaker 3: a lot of my friends who have kids, I think
Speaker 3: a lot of what they would define as clutter is
Speaker 3: all of their school paperwork that they get inundated with
Speaker 3: on a regular basis, and so it just is constantly there,
Speaker 3: even if you don't even have a ton of stuff
Speaker 3: in your in your home, And so I don't know
Speaker 3: how exactly your methodology would work with something like that,
Speaker 3: like the root cause and maybe the route. Maybe I'm
Speaker 3: I've got to think deep around this, Like, to me,
Speaker 3: the root cause of that would be the kids are
Speaker 3: bringing home paperwork.
Speaker 4: But I'm also curious, like that mess.
Speaker 3: And clutter distinction could be helpful here too, Like what
Speaker 3: are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I think so it's interesting.
Speaker 5: I mean, our brain can't understand the difference between mess
Speaker 5: and clutter, but I think it can help disarm again
Speaker 5: that shame piece of it and just like shift our
Speaker 5: expectation a little bit to reality because we're promised like
Speaker 5: that after photo that perfect looking like everything looks perfect,
Speaker 5: everything's in its place, we kind of subconsciously begin to believe,
Speaker 5: like this is what I'm going for. And then the
Speaker 5: second the kids come home and dump all their artwork
Speaker 5: and like homework and we love them right on the table, We're.
Speaker 6: Like what, like what I stuck it? Live like I'm
Speaker 6: the worst.
Speaker 5: And then it's like we tend to spire a little bit,
Speaker 5: or we get triggered, and so even though our brains
Speaker 5: might not understand the difference, when we remind ourselves and
Speaker 5: like just pause, when we see that stuff come in
Speaker 5: and land on our counters and go, oh, you know what,
Speaker 5: this is expected mess.
Speaker 6: So mess is exactly what it is. It's it's expected.
Speaker 5: It is cyclical, just like laundry is never ending. So
Speaker 5: are some of these messes that happen in life. And
Speaker 5: when we can remove, like depersonalize that and understand, like
Speaker 5: the goals to not have a perfectly tidy home twenty
Speaker 5: four to seven, it is normal for mess to come
Speaker 5: in cycles. We do the dishes, we make dirty ones,
Speaker 5: like we clean up the toys and the kids get
Speaker 5: them out and leave them on the floor.
Speaker 6: We clean the counters, the kids come home.
Speaker 5: It can be helpful to just psychologically understand, like I'm
Speaker 5: not a failure, I think for a lot of us
Speaker 5: now clutter. On the other hand, so the solution for mess,
Speaker 5: by the way, it's just systems and habits. Typically like
Speaker 5: maybe we need to organize in your friend's example, or
Speaker 5: that you know, the artwork and homework example. Maybe we
Speaker 5: need to organize the entryway so we have a spot,
Speaker 5: a dedicated spot for our kids to put those things.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's solved with what I call a daily reset,
Speaker 5: which is where you spend a few minutes resetting these
Speaker 5: common like busy hubs in our homes to its baseline tidiness.
Speaker 5: A lot of us do this after like cooking a meal, right,
Speaker 5: we clean up the kitchen, loave, the dishwasher, all those things.
Speaker 5: And it's really applying that same philosophy and these other
Speaker 5: areas on our home where mess if we don't keep
Speaker 5: up with it, builds, builds, builds, gets overwhelming and it
Speaker 5: does trigger us just like it does clutter. So that's
Speaker 5: the solution for an expected mess, right, systems habits sometimes
Speaker 5: you know our physical setups and organization solutions right, because
Speaker 5: you can't get rid of it, So you can't you
Speaker 5: can't really declutter expected mass. It's I mean you can
Speaker 5: because some of it turns into clutter, but you get
Speaker 5: the idea and then clutter, right is the excess, the unwanted,
Speaker 5: the broken, the unused. In my personal definition, and I
Speaker 5: would encourage you and all your listeners to do this
Speaker 5: is to create a working definition of what is clutter
Speaker 5: to me? Like, I'm just curious, Jen and Joe, like no,
Speaker 5: like have you ever wondered, like have you ever considered
Speaker 5: what your definition of clutter is?
Speaker 6: Or how do identify when something is clutter?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you have to decide when your home
Speaker 1: is complete when you're decorating it, and like what is
Speaker 1: enough for cleanliness, like just deciding these there's a perfect
Speaker 1: baseline and then there's an imperfect baseline, and so many
Speaker 1: people define perfect, but so few people define imperfect. So
Speaker 1: I keep paper piles on my counter at least for
Speaker 1: a week, and then I'll just go through like kind
Speaker 1: of weekly and deal with my paper piles. And Guy's
Speaker 1: artwork is included in those paper piles else, and I
Speaker 1: very freely throw things away because I view them as
Speaker 1: At first I felt guilty, but then I started viewing
Speaker 1: them as practice for his creativity. And now it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's not just like it's not a sentimental piece. Not
Speaker 1: everything is sentimental. Some things I just love or they
Speaker 1: are hilarious, and I want to keep them because I
Speaker 1: want to show him when he thinks he's cool as
Speaker 1: a teenager, who he really is. And so I keep
Speaker 1: those things, and then I just realize everything else is
Speaker 1: practice for his creativity, and so kind of reshifting my mindset,
Speaker 1: like you were saying, to just view it in a
Speaker 1: different way, not a negative way, or even a neutral way,
Speaker 1: still a positive way, but it's in a way that
Speaker 1: I feel good letting go of it.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: For me, Yeah, it's anything useless or unnecessary or something
Speaker 3: that collects dust that I don't find beautiful. So I
Speaker 3: don't have very I don't have very many things. But
Speaker 3: I did have a box of plugs that don't go
Speaker 3: to anything that I currently have. But for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: I couldn't get rid of those things. I recently did, though,
Speaker 3: I'm like, we're going through the bin today, it's happening.
Speaker 3: I need to make sure that these plugs don't belong
Speaker 3: to anything I own, and they're they're gone, They're out
Speaker 3: of here.
Speaker 1: Well. One of the I love that what something you
Speaker 1: had said earlier that made me think of this creativity
Speaker 1: pieces in decluttering. It's it's the what if I need it?
Speaker 1: A mindset, right, And one of the things that helps
Speaker 1: me is like, in this what what if I need it?
Speaker 1: Challenging myself to get creative and if I did need it,
Speaker 1: what is something else that I have that could make
Speaker 1: do with the use. It's maybe not perfect, but it'll
Speaker 1: do in a pinch. Yeah, And so it challenges me
Speaker 1: to get creative and then also that allows me to
Speaker 1: like release the thing that I haven't used, you know,
Speaker 1: like ever. Uh, And one of those things was, I
Speaker 1: don't know, somehow we ended up without a pizza cutter.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think we got rid of it.
Speaker 4: Where everyone got pizza cutters for each other.
Speaker 1: That that's the you were jumping the gun, Jill. So
Speaker 1: we didn't have one, and I didn't know why. I
Speaker 1: don't think we decluttered it. But for a while it
Speaker 1: challenged us to get creative because we didn't want to
Speaker 1: bring one into the house if we didn't need to.
Speaker 1: So we were using scissors or a knife or or
Speaker 1: maybe just ripping it. So we got creative with our
Speaker 1: pizza cutting. And then at Christmas time we did both
Speaker 1: get each other pizza cutters and so.
Speaker 4: We created a new one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was a really good time of like creativity.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But ultimately, Katie, I'm really loving how you're defining clutter
Speaker 3: versus mess. I feel like that reframe really did just
Speaker 3: unlock something for me and something I've been thinking about too.
Speaker 3: With cleaning, kind of the regularity that the rhythm that
Speaker 3: you've kind of described happens, I can bemoan needing to
Speaker 3: clean things all over again, Like I just did this
Speaker 3: and now, and then I realized there will never be
Speaker 3: a moment in my entire life where every single thing
Speaker 3: is done. Yes, maybe maybe if it happens, I'll live
Speaker 3: in that moment for one glorious minute, but immediately it's
Speaker 3: gonna get messed up again, Like everything is on this
Speaker 3: rotation of getting dirty getting clean. There's always twenty things
Speaker 3: that need to be cleaned. And so I'm like, then
Speaker 3: I need to change myself and how I look at
Speaker 3: this and figure out a way to embrace the rhythm
Speaker 3: of it, because that is life. Some nirvana where everything
Speaker 3: is as I think it should be isn't going to happen.
Speaker 3: So I think, specifically in this conversation about decluttering, that's
Speaker 3: so helpful for me. I would I would assume when
Speaker 3: the viewing it as messed up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when something isn't perfect, it's automatically quote unquote messed up.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Maybe that's part instead of like this is part
Speaker 3: of my children's learning. All that to say, for the
Speaker 3: for our listeners who are now taking this to heart,
Speaker 3: we're able to start helping ourselves understand the distinction between
Speaker 3: mess and clutter, and we've defined what clutter is for us,
Speaker 3: and we've kind of come to some version of root
Speaker 3: of it. We're understanding ourselves better. What do you recommend
Speaker 3: for kind of longevity with this? Knowing that we can
Speaker 3: handle messes regularly, I'm ready for that.
Speaker 4: I don't want to be.
Speaker 3: Doing decluttering regularly. How do we make sure that our
Speaker 3: are like clutter kryptonites don't keep creeping in and we're
Speaker 3: implementing our understanding of self for the long term.
Speaker 5: I think when it comes to just practicality, right, you
Speaker 5: shared everything like, we're kind of we're getting curious, We're
Speaker 5: noticing like, oh yeah, this is probably you know something
Speaker 5: I need to address it.
Speaker 6: It's rute.
Speaker 5: But then like, what do I do on a very
Speaker 5: practical level to make this sustainable? I think again, if
Speaker 5: you can just always be curious around your response to
Speaker 5: mess like Jill used to shared, like, oh well, now
Speaker 5: it's actually nice, like because we all have a different story,
Speaker 5: but I will say one different theme that a lot
Speaker 5: of women I experience that I work with is shame
Speaker 5: around mess Again. Culture teaches us to be consumers, and
Speaker 5: they on the backside equally shame us. For our homes
Speaker 5: not being perfect, and I think that is such a
Speaker 5: disservice to us. So practicing that pause when you feel
Speaker 5: triggered by the mess and going, hey, you know what,
Speaker 5: this is normal, this is expected. I know what I
Speaker 5: can do to handle this in the moment. And also
Speaker 5: I wanted to tease a part really quickly if it's okay, Jill,
Speaker 5: something you said relating to the mess, and that I
Speaker 5: want to take this one step further beyond just seeing
Speaker 5: it as like expected. And it's just it's not always
Speaker 5: it's annoying sometimes still right, just like the cleaning we
Speaker 5: have to do is ongoing. But mess is a side
Speaker 5: effect of some of the most beautiful experiences that we
Speaker 5: have as human beings. When I so it really is,
Speaker 5: and I say it is a massive disservice for these
Speaker 5: declutter experts and minimalist gurus whoever to say, like, no,
Speaker 5: we don't want mess.
Speaker 6: Mess is bad. It's not bad.
Speaker 5: I look at mass again, even though it's annoying sometimes
Speaker 5: as like this was like a dirty table was an
Speaker 5: opportunity to intentionally connect with my kids and my husband
Speaker 5: after a really long day, or my living room turns
Speaker 5: and upside down turned into a Ford couch cushion. Like
Speaker 5: everything everywhere where, it's like kind of annoying. I'm like,
Speaker 5: wait a second, Katie, this like I just saw my
Speaker 5: kid's belly laugh. They problem solved, they communicated, and they
Speaker 5: had the time of their lives, like the art projects
Speaker 5: that sometimes were like oh another art projects coming in,
Speaker 5: you know, but joy connection, imagination, play, Oh, play is
Speaker 5: so important for adults and kids, Like we make messes, right,
Speaker 5: and so I think taking it that extra step can
Speaker 5: just make it feel more meaningful, like mess is meaningful.
Speaker 6: Okay, So back to the practicality.
Speaker 4: Yes, I like that.
Speaker 6: So one of my best strategies.
Speaker 5: Again, this is about sustainability, and for anyone thinking like
Speaker 5: I don't have time to declutter, we need to declutter
Speaker 5: that belief. Like again decluttering, we can fit into the
Speaker 5: natural rhythms, your normal routine. We're all busy. You're going
Speaker 5: to be busy until we're not here anymore. That's the
Speaker 5: reality of it. We don't need to carve out, we
Speaker 5: don't need to quit our jobs. We don't need to
Speaker 5: wait for our kids to turn eighteen and move out.
Speaker 5: We're going to be busy then too, So clutter audits
Speaker 5: have been like my life hack for implementing it, and
Speaker 5: these are essentially micro declutter sessions that you.
Speaker 6: Integrate into your routine.
Speaker 5: So earlier I talked about resets as a way to
Speaker 5: handle expected mask keep it to a minimum baseline tidiness
Speaker 5: right if done consistently in different locations, those can take
Speaker 5: anywhere from like two to maybe ten minutes. And of course,
Speaker 5: the less clutter you have, the quicker those resets are,
Speaker 5: which is beautiful. But integrating clutter audits into either a
Speaker 5: reset or another household routine you already do is what
Speaker 5: you're going to do when you have a habit that
Speaker 5: already exists. You all know this the easiest way to
Speaker 5: start a new habit anchor it to one you have.
Speaker 5: So when you are doing laundry and you pull out
Speaker 5: a pair of pants that are two inches too short
Speaker 5: for your kiddo because they're growing like a weed.
Speaker 6: Instead of going, oh.
Speaker 5: You know, these don't fit, but like, I really don't
Speaker 5: have time to declutter his wardrobe right now, you can
Speaker 5: put it into a donation bin. So clutter audits again.
Speaker 5: You can get rid of one, two, three things a day.
Speaker 5: As you were cleaning your home putting things away, hanging
Speaker 5: up coats. You notice clutter, but we don't have to
Speaker 5: make it this big, big task. So putting donation bins
Speaker 5: in accessible, visible spots throughout your home mean less procrastination, right,
Speaker 5: It means an immediate home for the thing, and it
Speaker 5: gives you that opportunity to do it in bite sized
Speaker 5: chunks where it works, and then truly simply that bin
Speaker 5: fills up over time.
Speaker 6: Every week.
Speaker 5: I would delegate to my husband, especially when he wasn't
Speaker 5: super on board with decluttering. I was like, here's how
Speaker 5: you're playing, here's how we're doing it. I am willing
Speaker 5: to spearhead the movement, but you need to, you know,
Speaker 5: take the donation to the donation center or charity once
Speaker 5: a week.
Speaker 6: And we still do this to this day.
Speaker 5: I'm not decluttering as much or as often, but the
Speaker 5: same thing those clutter audits and donation bins, permanent donation
Speaker 5: bins at least one in your home, I recommend, are
Speaker 5: the same thing I do in maintenance mode. Right, this
Speaker 5: is about sustainability, and yes it does take longer. And
Speaker 5: again for people thinking this sounds really painful to me
Speaker 5: because it's like two things a day.
Speaker 6: How's that going to make a difference.
Speaker 5: Right, that's the perfectionistic and procrastination piece wearing its ugly
Speaker 5: head because we want the results now, because this is
Speaker 5: what we're promised.
Speaker 6: It's not reality.
Speaker 5: So you have to overcome that, overcome that mindset shift,
Speaker 5: and go I need to get comfortable with progress and
Speaker 5: not perfection. And this is how I'm going to do it.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love the donation bin. I got one. I
Speaker 1: have one that I used to keep it by the door,
Speaker 1: and now we keep Kay's bike there. So I moved
Speaker 1: it like to the corner in the dining area and
Speaker 1: it lives there until it gets filled up and then
Speaker 1: things go, Actually, we need to make a trip this week, Travis.
Speaker 1: If we lost three sheds in the hurricane and Travis
Speaker 1: actually got rid of some things, wow, I know. Wow,
Speaker 1: we have a full probably a full car now, not
Speaker 1: just a box.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Super helpful, super actionable stuff. I appreciate it. And you
Speaker 3: know what else is actionable helpful, the opposite of clutter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an audit that we run every week.
Speaker 4: The bill of the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 2: is William.
Speaker 3: Maybe you paid off your.
Speaker 2: Mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy to not
Speaker 2: have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo bills,
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton.
Speaker 1: This is the bill of the week, Katie. Every week
Speaker 1: we yell in the direction of our guests and listeners
Speaker 1: and we ask them a simple yet powerful question, what
Speaker 1: is your bill of the week?
Speaker 6: I cannot wait. I've been like geeking out over this.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I just can they ask me the question
Speaker 5: first so we can talk about this.
Speaker 6: I'm here for it.
Speaker 5: So my bill is actually a bill we didn't take on,
Speaker 5: and so let me tee this up.
Speaker 6: So we I am a proud minivan driver. I know.
Speaker 1: This is like a hot time minivan millennial right here.
Speaker 6: My girlfriends are horrified. Did I drive a minivan?
Speaker 5: And I'm like rolling up the car line, like, what's
Speaker 5: up in my minivan?
Speaker 6: Okay?
Speaker 1: So now you do press a button and the door opens.
Speaker 6: I do that every time.
Speaker 5: As I stare them dead in the eye, I'm like,
Speaker 5: you don't have this right, you don't. You're jealous, you know.
Speaker 5: So we've had a mini van for ten years. It
Speaker 5: ain't it ain't pretty. It does a job, but we're
Speaker 5: also in a new season, like my kids are getting older,
Speaker 5: they're eight and nine, and it's not as like necessary
Speaker 5: as a felt when they were itty bitty and like
Speaker 5: I don't want to break my back getting them in
Speaker 5: the car and all these things. So we talked about, like, hey,
Speaker 5: is now the time to upgrade. So we had a
Speaker 5: discussion like do we get a new car?
Speaker 6: Do we trade in? What's happening?
Speaker 5: And here's what we realized, while it was really tempting
Speaker 5: to upgrade, we got curious.
Speaker 6: We talked about it.
Speaker 5: Right, it was nice to have a sounding board with
Speaker 5: each other, and we decided against a new bill being
Speaker 5: a new car for two reasons. Number one, we realized
Speaker 5: in the moment it was more like cultural temptation versus
Speaker 5: true need you know, like our minivan still works, it's great,
Speaker 5: I still love the automatic doors, all the things. It
Speaker 5: was just like we're seeing all these cool cars in
Speaker 5: the world, like, oh, maybe we should upgrade, Like maybe
Speaker 5: maybe maybe. So it didn't we realized in that moment
Speaker 5: it wasn't coming from like it didn't align with our
Speaker 5: core values.
Speaker 6: Like one of our core values is simplicity.
Speaker 5: The simple way to handle it is to I'm driving
Speaker 5: that car to the ground, honey, like I'm doing it okay.
Speaker 5: And number two again like our minivan is paid off,
Speaker 5: and so the thought of taking on a car payment,
Speaker 5: even though it is possible for us to do I
Speaker 5: was like, I'm not doing it. It was another financial
Speaker 5: commitment that didn't align with our current goals and it
Speaker 5: felt I'm telling you, it felt so empowering to make
Speaker 5: that decision together and prioritize that financial freedom and ultimately
Speaker 5: our core value of simplicity over the thrill of a
Speaker 5: new car.
Speaker 6: So that's it, that's my bill.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is exciting.
Speaker 1: I feel so strongly with you, Katie about all this,
Speaker 1: and we say it is more effective for your finances
Speaker 1: to focus on your biggest expensives, which are housing, transportation
Speaker 1: of food, than the thousands of other peripheral expenses. You
Speaker 1: will always save more waiting to get the new car,
Speaker 1: turning away from that cultural norm of getting a new
Speaker 1: car every three to five years and just waiting and
Speaker 1: being content.
Speaker 3: I also love how you're excited to share this, that
Speaker 3: it's coming across not as deprivation. A no to yourselves
Speaker 3: was not depriving yourselves. It was actually bringing peace and
Speaker 3: confidence and assuredness that you're now just excited about and
Speaker 3: living in freely. And I think that's also the sign
Speaker 3: of values aligned living and spending. Is I feel peace
Speaker 3: about this decision, not pressure and regret and stress and
Speaker 3: sweaty palms. So thank you so much for sharing and
Speaker 3: helping us find that permission to drive the drive our
Speaker 3: vehicles into the crowd safely.
Speaker 1: Safely of course, especially when they got the button to
Speaker 1: open the doors and the kids aren't open the doors
Speaker 1: into other cars, and you're like, oh, hurry, we got
Speaker 1: to drive away before they notice that scratch.
Speaker 5: I don't know that my when we when that happens,
Speaker 5: when the car has been driven to the ground and
Speaker 5: we get a car where with doors open, I don't
Speaker 5: know that they'll know how to do it.
Speaker 6: I might have to like train them a little bit,
Speaker 6: you know. So true what you gotta do.
Speaker 3: If you all are listening, have a bill that you
Speaker 3: want to submit, if it's about a billion you didn't pay.
Speaker 3: If you two are on this, drive that vehicle into
Speaker 3: the ground train minivan millennials, Oh, it's because you just
Speaker 3: bought a used minivan and you love paying that bill,
Speaker 3: or you know anything else bill related for wellfriendspodcast dot com,
Speaker 3: slash bill, leave us your bill.
Speaker 4: We can't wait for it.
Speaker 3: And now it's time for the right round.
Speaker 1: We just recorded our audio book and we did. We
Speaker 1: do have a lightning round question at the end of
Speaker 1: every chapter, and they did highlight the lightning bolt symbol,
Speaker 1: and we took that to mean they wanted us to
Speaker 1: add our own.
Speaker 4: We did sound effects.
Speaker 1: So we do it on the podcast and we do
Speaker 1: it in the book. It sounds so good. And if
Speaker 1: you're wondering, is it them did they really do their
Speaker 1: own sound effects?
Speaker 4: The pew pews, Well, we did.
Speaker 6: The pew pews.
Speaker 1: So just we're just buy what youlovebook dot com. We're
Speaker 1: just gonna throw it out there. The pews are are real, all.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So for this lightning round, Katie and you'll
Speaker 3: go first because you're our honored guest, but we'll all answer.
Speaker 3: What's your technique for letting go of items with sentimental value?
Speaker 5: One of I think the best techniques of letting go
Speaker 5: of sentimental things outside of what we already discussed, is
Speaker 5: to take a photo with or of the item and
Speaker 5: jot down a note about why it is important to you.
Speaker 5: There's actually a study that was done in the last
Speaker 5: five years on people who did this with their sentimental
Speaker 5: items and people who didn't do this.
Speaker 6: And the people who did take the photo.
Speaker 5: Had no regret, were able to let the item go
Speaker 5: and we're at peace with it because they felt like
Speaker 5: they still had part of that identity of the thing,
Speaker 5: right in a simple photo. And I know I had
Speaker 5: heard about this years ago, not the study, but like,
Speaker 5: take a photo, and I thought this is so silly,
Speaker 5: but it's like the psychology piece behind it. So I
Speaker 5: think that is one very actionable simple thing to do
Speaker 5: to help really tip you over into feeling empowered to
Speaker 5: letting something go and just like you said with the
Speaker 5: Miniban thing like feel at peace with it versus like, oh,
Speaker 5: like this doesn't feel good right, And I understanding the
Speaker 5: value is in the memory and not the item itself
Speaker 5: again can really propel you to gain confidence to tackle
Speaker 5: even more sentimental items and understand too, like the whole
Speaker 5: purpose behind decluttering is to focus on what matters most
Speaker 5: to you, So it's not all about letting go of
Speaker 5: the sentimental things. I do think there's value in keeping
Speaker 5: the most important and special things, but yeah, take a photo.
Speaker 6: See how it works.
Speaker 1: What about for you, Jen, Well, I don't really have feelings,
Speaker 1: so I just throw everything away. But I don't throw
Speaker 1: away my children. And I think when I throw away
Speaker 1: and I declutter and I get things out of the house,
Speaker 1: I am creating an environment that is easier to clean,
Speaker 1: that is more aesthetically pleasing, that my kids will want
Speaker 1: to bring their friends over to one day. That I'm
Speaker 1: creating an environment where we can have more meaningful relationships.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm truly after. I'm not truly after
Speaker 1: sentiment or memory. So I think that's kind of my
Speaker 1: mindset when I am getting rid of potentially sentimental items,
Speaker 1: Like I do have a heart. I'm just kidding. I
Speaker 1: have a box of things in the attic that are,
Speaker 1: you know, from my wedding, for my kids' births. You
Speaker 1: know first, you know, stuff like that. But it's got
Speaker 1: to be a really life changing moment for me to
Speaker 1: want to save something physically from the moment.
Speaker 3: Oh my word, my mom was devastated. She still brings
Speaker 3: it up that I got rid of all of our
Speaker 3: wedding cards, just threw them away, Like, well, Mom, I
Speaker 3: kept the cash, I opened them all, I read them,
Speaker 3: took the money, threw away the card.
Speaker 1: I actually straw.
Speaker 4: I'm like, what am I going to do with these?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do not need to see the same message
Speaker 3: over and Oh it wasn't sentimental to me, it was
Speaker 3: to hers.
Speaker 4: I'm like, do you want them?
Speaker 1: I typically as soon as I get a card, it
Speaker 1: goes in the trash.
Speaker 3: Everyone who gives me a card, who knows me well
Speaker 3: enough and likes me enough to give me a card,
Speaker 3: knows it's going in the trash.
Speaker 4: So you know, that's why I do that.
Speaker 6: Your cards.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to save someone. I do
Speaker 1: send Christmas cards that have like pictures of us, but
Speaker 1: that's it. Like I never buy like a card from
Speaker 1: a cutesy card.
Speaker 4: And even in the trash.
Speaker 1: Well it's okay, Like I make sure you know, but
Speaker 1: I think that once a year that is acceptable to me.
Speaker 3: Uh So for me, I love the photo tip, but
Speaker 3: to give another one that I do. I will collect,
Speaker 3: like gather sentimental items, and if they are like items,
Speaker 3: if they're similar, I choose just one, like that's the
Speaker 3: thing that I'm keeping. So for me, my sentimental stuff
Speaker 3: has come to me from the people that I care about.
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking specifically my grandmother, who I've had a
Speaker 3: great relationship with throughout my life, and she is getting
Speaker 3: older and not going to be around for forever, and
Speaker 3: she has had to downsize within the last couple of years,
Speaker 3: and so we've been able to acquire a lot of
Speaker 3: her things, but for the extra pieces, Like she used
Speaker 3: to collect milk glass, so I associate milk glass with her,
Speaker 3: and I got like it just a lot was just
Speaker 3: given to me. And while it's from her, it means
Speaker 3: a lot to me. It makes me think of her,
Speaker 3: and I love her, and I love that and I
Speaker 3: love these milk glass pieces. I don't need all of them.
Speaker 3: So I went through this audit where I just looked
Speaker 3: at what can I actually use, what's useful to me?
Speaker 3: What is there any one in particular that really stands
Speaker 3: out as a reminder of her? And like limited myself
Speaker 3: to how many of these pieces will I keep and
Speaker 3: get rid of the rest Because I did keep some
Speaker 3: of it, I don't have to keep all of it
Speaker 3: to know that I'm honoring her and her memory. It's
Speaker 3: I have the one thing that I can look at.
Speaker 3: So that's helped me too, just to know I don't
Speaker 3: have to maintain her collection, I can decide what I
Speaker 3: want to keep and really value that thing that I've kept.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 5: And it goes with the age old saying like if
Speaker 5: everything's special, then nothing really is amen. And so it's no,
Speaker 5: it's no coincidence to me that y'all are kind of
Speaker 5: natural declutters. Y'all are simplifiers, right, because money and stuff
Speaker 5: go hand in hand, all the parallels we talked about today,
Speaker 5: and so I personally find that when we can marry
Speaker 5: like since what you I call it like joy, right,
Speaker 5: So that milk glass you picked out probably brought you
Speaker 5: the most joy in some sense, but also you brought
Speaker 5: function into it. And when we can marry like joy
Speaker 5: or beauty or sentimentality with like function, mm hmm, it's
Speaker 5: a beautiful thing. And I feel like that's when we
Speaker 5: create homes that really feel so aligned and feel beautiful
Speaker 5: and personal to us.
Speaker 6: And so you hit the nail on the head with
Speaker 6: that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, thanks for that encouragement, And thanks so much, Katie
Speaker 3: for everything you've shared with us, super super helpful. If
Speaker 3: people want more from you, where can they find you?
Speaker 6: Come?
Speaker 5: Hang out on the podcast the maximized minimalist cool.
Speaker 6: Thanks Katie, thank you.
Speaker 1: My biggest takeaway is that mini vans are a values
Speaker 1: based purchase for everyone, for you, for everyone. I think
Speaker 1: this just really does emphasize how important minivans are.
Speaker 3: I think it would make little to no sense for me,
Speaker 3: but I respect I respect you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good to have one minivan and one regular car,
Speaker 1: and you just have one car, so of course it's fine.
Speaker 3: So my next purchase will be a mine for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 3: just on the on the road there on the pathway
Speaker 3: to many.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, everyone is thank you for listening, whether you have
Speaker 1: a minivan or not. We love you and we love
Speaker 1: reading your kind. Reviews like this one from Sweet JC,
Speaker 1: which happens to be five stars, says, such fun. I
Speaker 1: am so close to retirement, so I thought I would
Speaker 1: start being frugal. Well, I know a little late to
Speaker 1: the game, but it can't hurt to start thinking that
Speaker 1: my money matters. The girls make the show such fun.
Speaker 1: I find little tips and trinks, tricks. I appreciate how
Speaker 1: down to how down your earth, down to earth and fun.
Speaker 1: The show is five stars. It won't let me tap
Speaker 1: to rate. Well you did, you did write it five stars.
Speaker 1: You did it, sweet JC.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I am enthralled by this review. I love it so much.
Speaker 3: This is very much a person close to retirement letting
Speaker 3: us know that the technology isn't working.
Speaker 4: It's so beautiful and.
Speaker 3: We are so glad that you're here. Sweet JC, you are,
Speaker 3: you are sweet. Thanks for saying such kind things. And
Speaker 3: yeah for letting us be a small part of your
Speaker 3: life and journey towards retirement. How exciting for you. I
Speaker 3: hope it's a beautiful time in life. Yes, and thank
Speaker 3: you all for listening. If you enjoyed this show, please
Speaker 3: do take a minute to leave a rating and review.
Speaker 3: It really does help new listeners find us. It helps us.
Speaker 3: We love reading them.
Speaker 1: And if you own a minivan, please leave a rating
Speaker 1: and review that says I drive a minivan and I
Speaker 1: feel seen, so that other millennials who drive minivans know
Speaker 1: that this is a safe space.
Speaker 6: Bye.
Speaker 3: Wow, I thank you, Okay bye.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. I feel very
Speaker 1: cool in my minivan. I put my shades on, I
Speaker 1: roll up in the car line, I press a button
Speaker 1: and the doors open the right way, not like suicide doors,
Speaker 1: but they just back up. They back up like they're
Speaker 1: shuffling back, like they're hiding.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just like, what reason do you see for
Speaker 3: people without kids to have a minivan.
Speaker 1: If you like to transport large things. It's like a
Speaker 1: truck with a topper that you can't take off.
Speaker 3: The thing is is that both you and Katie's main
Speaker 3: selling points within one sentence about the minivan is pulling
Speaker 3: up in the car line like that is entirely a
Speaker 3: kid drop off pick up for I don't have.
Speaker 1: To rely on the vack crater in the safety patrol
Speaker 1: to open the door for my kid. I got him.
Speaker 1: It's just I am a mother.
Speaker 3: Is entirely connected to mom life, and I just don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't have to if you.
Speaker 1: Can from my back bending over to get my kid in,
Speaker 1: like there's so much room for activities.
Speaker 3: It's I don't know why other vehicles car doors don't
Speaker 3: open the way that mini vans do. I don't know
Speaker 3: why other types of cars cannot get on board because.
Speaker 4: It is brilliant.
Speaker 1: I know, it's, you know.
Speaker 4: So much safer for everybody.
Speaker 1: For everyone, and for the cars next door. Yeah sure so.
Speaker 4: But also get like just getting your kids in and out.
Speaker 4: It's just so much safer.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, you can shut them in there too. You
Speaker 1: turn off the turn off the button that allows them
Speaker 1: to open it.
Speaker 3: You be like, you're in here now anywhere, huh, this
Speaker 3: is your own private.
Speaker 4: Oasis.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm in there too, obviously because I have
Speaker 1: to press the button. So I mean, it's the buttons
Speaker 1: for me. So don't you.
Speaker 6: Very cool?
Speaker 1: Feel free? So feel empowered. You hold the power in
Speaker 1: your buttons, your your all.
Speaker 3: The button I love the button on my mos that
Speaker 3: closes the trunk.
Speaker 4: That's the button I enjoy.
Speaker 1: I got that button too. I got the button that
Speaker 1: turns it on. You press it twice and it starts
Speaker 1: the car, turns the AC on so you can cool
Speaker 1: down the car seat before you put the kitten. How yeah,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 4: You want to go sit in your van right now?
Speaker 4: Well I have to. I have to.
Speaker 1: Actually, you gotta go get you have to go pick out,
Speaker 1: roll up in the line. I gotta roll up in
Speaker 1: the car line. Yeah you do. Good Bye bye,