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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I have a special

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Speaker 1: guest with me today and we're going to do some

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Speaker 1: myth busting on what's going on in Israel. Because I

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Speaker 1: know you guys are hearing all these different stories about

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Israel and the genocide and the hatred

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Speaker 1: and all of these stories. But we wanted to find

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Speaker 1: someone on the ground to tell us the truth about

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Israel, and we thought it would be

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Speaker 1: best coming from someone who is actually Arab and Muslim,

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Speaker 1: so he can tell you his experience. So we are

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Speaker 1: pleased to announce that we have Ali Shaban today with

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Speaker 1: us to talk about what's going on in the state

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Speaker 1: of Israel. Ali, thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me.

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Speaker 1: So I've been watching your Instagram. I find it really

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Speaker 1: fascinating because we hear all these stories like Israel's very

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Speaker 1: discriminatory and they're discriminatory against Arabs and there's this genocide

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Speaker 1: going on, but you kind of say this isn't actually

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Speaker 1: the case. How long have you lived in Israel.

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Speaker 2: I'm forty one years old, so forty one years I

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Speaker 2: mean Israel, Arab, Muslim Arab citizens with our rights and

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Speaker 2: full freedom.

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Speaker 1: But there doesn't seem to be any difference between you

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Speaker 1: and any other Israeli citizen based on what I've seen

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Speaker 1: you talking about, which I find fascinating because I saw

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Speaker 1: you saying that you actually served in the IDF and

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Speaker 1: you wondered if you could serve in the IDF growing

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Speaker 1: up because you weren't Jewish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a Muslim. I'm I'm raised with the narrative

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Speaker 2: that we are victims and the Jewish people occupied us,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of lives that I realized in my

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Speaker 2: life that this is not the truth. I live side

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Speaker 2: by side that was Jews every day. There are my neighbors.

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Speaker 2: I worked with them, and not just me, A lot

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Speaker 2: of a big percentage of Israeli, Arab, Christian, Rus Muslim

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Speaker 2: work side by side every day with Jewish people and

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Speaker 2: we live peacefully together and we collaborate, and the world

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Speaker 2: didn't know about this.

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Speaker 1: That's what I find fascinating. I heard it said once

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Speaker 1: that in Israel, it's the one place in the Middle

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Speaker 1: East where they allow all three monotheistic religions to live together.

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Speaker 1: So Judaism, Christianity and Islam all together in one area

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Speaker 1: of the Middle East, but that's not really the case

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Speaker 1: in other countries, so it really is unique. There does

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Speaker 1: seem to be a camaraderie and acceptance and somewhat of

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Speaker 1: a bringing together of cultures that is allowable there and

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Speaker 1: not so much in other places.

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Speaker 2: It's a unique place as well. And honestly, the Jewish

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Speaker 2: people can live with anyone because they respect everyone who's

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Speaker 2: respecting them. They allow us to build masks, they allow

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Speaker 2: us to practice our religion. You can be whatever whatever

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Speaker 2: we want, and then no problem with that. Just be

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Speaker 2: a good citizen. And our case as Arabs here in

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Speaker 2: this country, we are, in my opinion, not a good

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Speaker 2: citizen because we are just demand the rights, but don't

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Speaker 2: give our duty to other country and to defend that

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Speaker 2: country that gives us the right to live here without

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Speaker 2: no problem in comparing with the other countries. That's our neighbors,

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Speaker 2: countries that I'm visited and I see how they live

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Speaker 2: and how they live with the minorities and how they

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Speaker 2: deal with minorities. And Israel is not perfect. Yes, we

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Speaker 2: have problems. We have some racism, and some members of

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Speaker 2: the Knesset that are doing problems and not bringing solutions

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Speaker 2: and also we Arabs do the same. So we need

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Speaker 2: to fix a lot of things in our community. But

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Speaker 2: at the bottom line, By the bottom line, we are peace.

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Speaker 2: We are leaving the peace that we were wishing for.

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Speaker 2: Every day piece is here and it's daily in daily basis,

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Speaker 2: but the world don't see it. And because of the

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Speaker 2: loud voice of the hater, we are not acknowledged in

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Speaker 2: the world, the world that they're thinking when they think

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Speaker 2: about Israel and Arabs, the thinking just war and occupation

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Speaker 2: and apartheide and all these slogans this come, come visitor

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Speaker 2: as well, come see if you can allow to yourself.

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Speaker 2: And I'm truly I want to believe Israel have interest

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Speaker 2: to bring the people that don't can't allow to themselves

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Speaker 2: to come here. Come and seeing with your own eyes

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Speaker 2: how I live, and see who is making the problems

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Speaker 2: and who is there the bad guys here in this story,

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Speaker 2: because in my opinion, there's not the Jews is the

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Speaker 2: but it's not the bad guys here.

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Speaker 1: Interesting because we obviously hear the news, what happens, what

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Speaker 1: we're hearing from the news, and we hear people chanting

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Speaker 1: that there is a genocide and that there's this attack

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Speaker 1: on Gaza, and that there are no Arabs in Israel,

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Speaker 1: and then in fact they're not allowed to have homes,

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Speaker 1: that the Jews have displaced them and occupied the territory.

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Speaker 1: But you would argue that Arabs are not displaced in Israel.

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Speaker 2: No, my family lives here in a decades in the

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Speaker 2: same house. No one come here and excel us, it

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Speaker 2: was what was happened when when in the beginning in

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Speaker 2: this country, a lot of worlds have the same issue.

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Speaker 2: We have war, you have people run away from words.

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Speaker 2: That's what's happened here. But there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: Arab cities and villages here in Israel, live side by

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Speaker 2: side with Jewish cities and villages. It's almost two two

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Speaker 2: million Arabs live inside Israel. Go to the with the

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Speaker 2: Jewish people, go to the same hospital, go to the

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Speaker 2: same market. Living in cities that mixed with Jewish and

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Speaker 2: Jews and Arabs. They are living in the same buildings.

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Speaker 2: We are living together every day. And yes we have problems.

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Speaker 2: Israel have problems with Arabs. Israel is fighting Arabs, but

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Speaker 2: it's not all Arabs, just the one who attack us.

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Speaker 2: And it's the Palestinian the people that call themselves Palestinian.

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Speaker 2: They have problem with us, with all Israelis, including Arabs.

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Speaker 2: They want to kill everyone here. They want to excel

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Speaker 2: everyone from here. The solution in their and their opinion

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Speaker 2: is to conquer this land and get rid of all

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Speaker 2: Jews and all minorities. I'm bringing Sharia and Islam Halifai here.

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Speaker 2: These people is monsters. Don't forget what they they did

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Speaker 2: in October seven. Don't forget that, and imagine, Please everyone

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Speaker 2: who's thinking about Israel and is for Palestinian, imagine if

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Speaker 2: what happened October seven, what happened was happening in your city,

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Speaker 2: and your kids was kidnapped. Imagine that your kids had

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Speaker 2: had raped and had suffer what happens October seventh. Don't

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Speaker 2: forget that. When you if someone was doing that to you,

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Speaker 2: what was the.

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Speaker 1: There are these groups that are promoting the Palestinian cause

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Speaker 1: and they are saying that that that simply didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: There's so many people saying there was no rape, there

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Speaker 1: was no murder. What do you say to those people

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Speaker 1: who say that didn't happen on October seventh?

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Speaker 2: You are second hand information. Come here, Come and see

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Speaker 2: how we live together, come and see how Israel dealing

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Speaker 2: with what's happened in West Bank and Gaza, and come,

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Speaker 2: let's hear from the real people that lives here, from

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Speaker 2: Arabs lives here, from Jews lives here, and don't just

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Speaker 2: listen to two lies that in the and the Internet,

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Speaker 2: or all the fake news or all the propaganda that

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Speaker 2: they're trying to sell you to make you more loudly

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Speaker 2: like defending them and support them, the bad people that

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Speaker 2: I mean Hamas and all the Islamic or group that

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Speaker 2: we have here.

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Speaker 1: How hard was it after October seventh as a Muslim

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Speaker 1: in Israel? Did that change how people viewed you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't know that I am a poise Ralli

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Speaker 2: and I served in the army and it was difficult

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Speaker 2: to go in the streets in the October eighth and

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Speaker 2: after that it was very intense and nervous. Everyone was nervous.

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Speaker 2: We didn't know what if we will survive this day

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Speaker 2: or tomorrow. That it was very hard. But I think

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Speaker 2: after two years we can see that we Arabs inside

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Speaker 2: Israel start starting to understand the truth about our country

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Speaker 2: and the truth about the Palestinians that want to occupy

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Speaker 2: our country. And they take our freedom and take our

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Speaker 2: right to live free in this world, and they make

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Speaker 2: us say the slaves for them. We saw what they

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Speaker 2: did to Arabs in October seven. They also kill Arabs,

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Speaker 2: They also killed Muslims. They also killed kidnapped Arabs. So

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Speaker 2: these people are monsters. This is not really Muslims. These

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Speaker 2: people like me as a as a Muslim, I I can't,

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Speaker 2: I don't don't want to say what what else I

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Speaker 2: think about?

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Speaker 1: So what do you think it is? Do you think

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Speaker 1: it is? Do you think it's the I mean we

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Speaker 1: talk about in the United States, we talk about the

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Speaker 1: Israelis and the Palestinians, and I do think that people

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Speaker 1: can use that as Jewish people and Muslim people. But

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Speaker 1: Hamas is not a Muslim group. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a terror group. Is that hard for you to clarify

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Speaker 1: on the ground in Israel that Hamas is different than Islam.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons that I'm talking loudly and I

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Speaker 2: say my opinion is not just to protect my country

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Speaker 2: and protect my cousins the Jewish people, is also to

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Speaker 2: protect Islam and to protect my religion because these people

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Speaker 2: are also kidnapped my religion and kidnap, the peaceful Islam

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Speaker 2: that I learned the mask when I was young. So

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Speaker 2: I think it's not about Islamic tour but it's about

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Speaker 2: bad translation of Islam and to use this translation to

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Speaker 2: lead people to bad the future, to something wrong. But

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Speaker 2: if you look at the base basic Islam and not

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Speaker 2: the all the layers that and the lanes come after

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Speaker 2: the basic, at the book and then translated, right, I

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Speaker 2: really believe as a Muslim, that's a lot of good.

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Speaker 2: They're not just kill and kidnapped and all the lies

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Speaker 2: that we have today.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. There's a lot of fear regarding

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Speaker 1: and surrounding Sharia lah that you mentioned Shari la. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that the folks over in Gaza, the Hamas Group

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Speaker 1: would like to bring Sharia to Israel. Explain that to

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Speaker 1: Americans because there is a lot of fear around Sharia lah.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's also some confusion between Islam and Sharia.

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Speaker 1: There's a confusion because there's a belief that if you

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Speaker 1: believe in the Islamic religion, then you want to have

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Speaker 1: Sharia law in your community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she realized what was good there maybe one four

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Speaker 2: hundred years ago. But today you cannot. We cannot have

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Speaker 2: sharia lah because we cannot have slavery. We cannot have

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Speaker 2: I don't imagine myself buying slaves in the slave market.

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Speaker 2: This is sharia lah, so REALI is not the real

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Speaker 2: law of Islam, the real love of Islam to be,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion and my experience with Islam, to be

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Speaker 2: a good person, to respect everyone, let everyone leave you.

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Speaker 2: If you if you need to fight, you to fight

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Speaker 2: just when you when you protect yourself, protect your land,

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Speaker 2: but do not attack. And I don't think that shariah reach.

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Speaker 2: Realize when Israel give Gaza freely goes out two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five out of Gaza, take your land, we don't

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Speaker 2: want it, want to live in peace with you. Let's

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Speaker 2: try something else. So in this case sharia lah, we'll

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Speaker 2: tell you. I think I believe that take care of

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Speaker 2: your people, take care of for your people, live peacefully.

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Speaker 2: But October seven, October seventh.

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Speaker 1: I mean also I think that from the standpoint of

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Speaker 1: being a woman, the messages that we've received for the

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Speaker 1: years about what sharia law is, and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a part of the Muslim community,

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Speaker 1: but the outsider's view has been that it is very

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Speaker 1: abusive toward women. Yes, what would you what would your

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Speaker 1: response be to that?

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Speaker 2: I I I don't accept that. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: look women and men are the same. And when you

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Speaker 2: when I read the Quran, I read the sort that

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Speaker 2: say don't bury your child because the women, because that's

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Speaker 2: the that's the first thing I learned about Islam. Respect

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Speaker 2: your women, don't like like fight for her, like protect her.

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Speaker 2: This is your daughter, this is your sister, and respect her.

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Speaker 2: But the ads coming after, because you have the quwan

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Speaker 2: and they have the hadith and had is, it's all ads,

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Speaker 2: and I cannot trust these ads. So if we go

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Speaker 2: to the basic Islam is what I learned as a child,

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Speaker 2: Islam is good. Islam is to be peaceful, and don't

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Speaker 2: I need to say something. And I'm not a a

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Speaker 2: Muslim that practices Islam every day, And maybe I'm wrong

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Speaker 2: in some issues here, but I remember always what I

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Speaker 2: was teaching and I learned in when I was a child.

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Speaker 2: So I want to protect Islam. That the Islam that

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Speaker 2: I learned when I was a children, not that the

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Speaker 2: Islam you talk about. Because this is not really Slam.

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Speaker 2: A lot of Muslim will tell you this is not

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Speaker 2: really Slam. And also, I'm protecting my country, not protecting

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Speaker 2: my childre there in future here, so combining everything, so

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Speaker 2: I cannot just do that and ignore that. It's the

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Speaker 2: same when you say, when you talk about terror today,

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Speaker 2: you think about Islam at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Well you so you you live in Israel. Let me

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Speaker 1: just remind our audience, Ali lives in Israel. You are

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Speaker 1: you talk about practicing Islam growing up, what you learned

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Speaker 1: growing up? Obviously you were free to practice that religion

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Speaker 1: growing up. Despite what we are hearing on the mainstream

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Speaker 1: media here in the United States, which is this is

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Speaker 1: a Jewish community and they are kicking Arabs out. There

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Speaker 1: is no Islam in Israel. But that isn't true. So

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Speaker 1: from your perspective, do you have equal rights in Israel?

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Speaker 2: Is it just?

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Speaker 1: Is it life as normal?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems very westernized in Israel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't move, move freely, go whenever I want,

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Speaker 2: wherever I want, and do to be a student, to

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Speaker 2: go to college, to university, university and be a doctor

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Speaker 2: and go work in an hospital or be a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: and a judge, and I have full freedom here and

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Speaker 2: equal rights. After I did my army duty, I can

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Speaker 2: see one hundred percent that I have equal rights. Maybe

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Speaker 2: maybe the people because they don't give their duty to

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Speaker 2: the country. They have that the thing that the country

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Speaker 2: don't give them right. But before I go to the army,

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Speaker 2: I have also I didn't feel like I'm not equal

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Speaker 2: because the country was supporting me, supporting my family. I

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Speaker 2: was and was living in the foster family, me and

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Speaker 2: my sister for two years. That the country take care

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Speaker 2: of us. My mother was very sick, and the country

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Speaker 2: take care of my mother until Todath. And that's what

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Speaker 2: was before I go to the army. The country takes

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Speaker 2: care of me, not going to the crime way and

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Speaker 2: was I have, Look, I can't. I have like care

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Speaker 2: and wealth and everything like Jewish Jewish people. But I

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Speaker 2: sadly or unfortunately unfortunately with the Arabs inside Israel leave

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Speaker 2: the victim mentality. So we like to complain a lot.

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Speaker 2: We don't see the good thing that we had when

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Speaker 2: we compare to Egypt or Jordan. I was, I visited

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Speaker 2: these countries and I saw how they live, and I

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Speaker 2: compared that with how I live and watched Israel giving

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Speaker 2: me as a citizen even and I thought to myself, honestly,

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Speaker 2: even it's not even, if it's not equal with Jewish people,

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Speaker 2: it's still far better than what I saw in Arab countries.

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Speaker 1: Oh so while your mom was getting better at the

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Speaker 1: state took care of you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so, And since I was a child until I

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Speaker 2: was eighteen years old, that the country take care of

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Speaker 2: care of me as a younger boy. They didn't allow

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Speaker 2: me to go to the streets. They didn't allow me

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Speaker 2: to go the wrong way. And thanks God, thanks to God,

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Speaker 2: thanks to Israel, I'm a better person today.

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Speaker 1: So what is it like then? Is there is there

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Speaker 1: much crime in Israel? I mean, if that's the case,

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Speaker 1: if they saw that need and they were to take

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Speaker 1: care of you, then they must be concerned with making

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Speaker 1: sure that people have what they need.

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Speaker 2: People sometimes don't want to go to the right way.

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Speaker 2: It's easier to go to the wrong way. And this

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Speaker 2: is my way and my personality. I took put the

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Speaker 2: what people what the people that work with the government

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Speaker 2: tell me that don't go to jail, jail is X

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Speaker 2: and Y, don't do drugs, don't drink alcohol, stop going

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Speaker 2: with the person that affects you badly. And I was

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Speaker 2: open to that, but there's a lot a lot of

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Speaker 2: guys that don't not open to that. And our community,

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Speaker 2: I say, I say it again, live in a victim mentality,

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Speaker 2: and then this victim mentality is very easy to live

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Speaker 2: and complain and not focusing being a better person, take

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Speaker 2: responsibility and do change a good way, because a good change,

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Speaker 2: because it's hard, so we go to the victim mentality.

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Speaker 2: And when when you live in this type of life

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Speaker 2: as a victim mentality and have no identity, you do

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Speaker 2: not feeling like you're Israeli, this country like it's a

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Speaker 2: very complex situation. So this bring crime, when this issue

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Speaker 2: will bring crime, it's not it's very easy easy to

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Speaker 2: say that Israel not taking care of us, and that

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Speaker 2: was the crime is going big. But the crime is

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Speaker 2: going big because our mentality, because we need to fix

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Speaker 2: something in our community as an Arab Israeli citizens and

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Speaker 2: to try to make a change for our children. And

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Speaker 2: one of these of one of the steps maybe that

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Speaker 2: can help is to take a project our nation, like

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Speaker 2: make national project and protect our country and say loudly

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Speaker 2: the truth about our country and start to go to

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Speaker 2: army and volunteer to army and have to help our

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Speaker 2: country and feel like we are belong here.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. I can see how a victim

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Speaker 1: mentality would take root in an area where there's constant battle,

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Speaker 1: there's constant conflict, and there's constant war. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that I saw that you had said on one

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Speaker 1: of your social pages is that you didn't even know

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Speaker 1: about the Holocaust until you were in your late teen years.

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Speaker 1: I find that fascinating, having grown up in Israel, going

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Speaker 1: to school there, that you wouldn't have learned about that.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about a victim mentality, do you see

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Speaker 1: that on the Jewish side, I mean many of these

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Speaker 1: people had to leave their home countries and go to

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Speaker 1: a totally different area to escape the Holocaust.

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Speaker 2: Ye. Yes, victim mentality is everywhere and everyone can feel

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Speaker 2: it is in every society. You have people that have

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Speaker 2: this mentality like and you have the opposite and any

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Speaker 2: and so you can meet this guy, this person here

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Speaker 2: or the other person, but the victim mentality in both

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Speaker 2: sides will not give us solution. We can yell at

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Speaker 2: each other at each other every day. You did that

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Speaker 2: for me, and you did that and I did that

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Speaker 2: for you, and I suffer because of you. And we

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Speaker 2: can go like these years and will not bring solution.

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Speaker 2: We need the people that don't feel victim, feel responsible,

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Speaker 2: the people that feel responsible for the future, to sit

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Speaker 2: and talk and start to bring solutions. And it need

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Speaker 2: to be our both size interest and unfortunately the victim

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Speaker 2: mentality is loudly today. You hear the victim mentality of

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Speaker 2: the Arabs when you talk about Israel, and you hear

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Speaker 2: the victim mentality from Jews when you talk about what

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Speaker 2: happened in the Holocaust and what happened the excels from

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Speaker 2: the Arab countries also a trauma that Jewish people have lived.

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Speaker 2: They exceled from Iraq, from Algeria, from Morocco, the excel

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Speaker 2: from a lot of that. So we are both traumatic

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Speaker 2: societies living together, doing more trauma to each other when

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Speaker 2: we are not sitting and talking. We need to heal

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Speaker 2: our communities. We need to talk and just talking. We're here,

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Speaker 2: not bullets. Bullets will not fix anything.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how you see Israel as a country, though, because

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Speaker 1: your point has been. I mean, you talk quite extensively

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Speaker 1: on social media about the fact that Israel is really

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Speaker 1: a beautiful place, that there are people that can live together,

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Speaker 1: that there is some harmony in this country that we're

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Speaker 1: not seeing. So for the people who believe that this

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Speaker 1: is a country that is bullying other countries, that they

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Speaker 1: are committing genocide, that they're attacking everyone around them, give

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Speaker 1: us a little bit of insight as to the opposite

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Speaker 1: of that, what it is like on the ground, the love,

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Speaker 1: the harmony, that the willingness to share culture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't forget that we have two rab societies here

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Speaker 2: living a neighborhood with Jewish people that are Palestinian. The

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Speaker 2: Israeli are talking in the name of the Israeli Arabs

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Speaker 2: that we have the peace already here. We live in

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Speaker 2: it every day. Don't forget that. Come and see, please

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Speaker 2: I begin, Come and see ticket ticket fly and come

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Speaker 2: and visit for one day, and you will see the

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Speaker 2: peace that we live here. But you also will see

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Speaker 2: the world that we have and we suffer because of

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Speaker 2: our neighbors, the Palestinian people, and you will see you

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Speaker 2: will see the truth. It's complex, it's not perfect. I'm

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Speaker 2: not living like in the in golden era here, but

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Speaker 2: we live together. We'll live together. We know how to

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Speaker 2: live together. And this is a good exam example for

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Speaker 2: all the all the Middle East to see. And if

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Speaker 2: you're from Jordan and you can, you do not believe me,

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Speaker 2: come to see you can, you have you have a

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Speaker 2: dream and you can. You can cross the border. If

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Speaker 2: you're from Egypt, come in Challah. Will be peace with

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Speaker 2: Lebanon and Suria. And then we can also come here

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Speaker 2: and to see and see in her own eye, in

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Speaker 2: their own eyes, what's happening here and in Challah. We

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Speaker 2: are the Arab society inside Israel. We will wake up

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Speaker 2: and bring a new message of peace and coexistence to

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Speaker 2: the Middle East and show the world the truth that

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Speaker 2: we can live with the Jewish people. It's not monsters,

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Speaker 2: as you teach me when I was a child. They

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Speaker 2: don't have three legs. There are people like me like you.

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Speaker 2: So stop the hatred and start to search about solutions,

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Speaker 2: peaceful solutions. It can be done. You just need to

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Speaker 2: believe and do that and stop the hatred, stop the

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Speaker 2: anti Semitism, stop all all of that.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a beautiful message. Thank you so much. Ali Shavan,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on today, thank you

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Speaker 1: for inviting me absolutely, and thank you thank you all

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Speaker 1: for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. For this episode

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00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: and others. You can go to the Tutor Diison podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com, iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. You can also watch it on Rumble or

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Speaker 1: YouTube at Tutor Dixon and have a blessed day.