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Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland

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Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to Inventing

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Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the making

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Speaker 1: of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm chatting with celebrity fitness

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Speaker 1: trainer Casey Duke, who you probably know as the character

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Speaker 1: played by Laverne Cox in the series. Casey has spent

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Speaker 1: decades getting Hollywood stars like Denzel Washington and Dakota Johnson

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Speaker 1: in fighting form for the big screen, but she never

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Speaker 1: could have imagined that she'd be a key figure in

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Speaker 1: one of the craziest stories ever told. Casey and I

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Speaker 1: chat about what it was like to train Anna Delvi,

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Speaker 1: how it felt to witness her ensuing meltdown, and how

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Speaker 1: seeing this saga play out on screen has only reinforced

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Speaker 1: how important it is to stand in her power. Hello, Casey,

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Speaker 1: it's so nice to meet you. How are you. I'm great,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for inviting me in. I'm excited. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you are so central to this story. But before we

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Speaker 1: talk about Anna Delby, I'd actually love to talk about

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Speaker 1: you in your life. You've led a very interesting life.

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Speaker 1: You're very accomplished person. Uh native New Yorker. I'd love

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Speaker 1: to know more about how and where you grew up.

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Speaker 1: I am definitely a native New Yorker. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. What part of Brooklyn, Well, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the the folk Green into Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights area.

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Speaker 1: Because it was for Green Park was like my playground.

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Speaker 1: I used to live in Park Slope. I love that area.

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Speaker 1: You know. I have a lot of dolls buried in

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Speaker 1: Fulk Green Park, a lot. If we see a little

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Speaker 1: plastic hands sticking up from the dirt, we shouldn't be scared,

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Speaker 1: not at all. So you were there before all the

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Speaker 1: hipsters came in and you know, jacked up the housing prices.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we were. We were there for for many

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Speaker 1: more years before that. When I was married to my

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Speaker 1: first husband, we lived in Douglass and Queen's Wo had

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Speaker 1: my first workout studio. Then you know, to Manhattan and

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Speaker 1: I've been a a big Apple girl for many years

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Speaker 1: and I love this city. Love it. You know, you

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Speaker 1: want to slap it sometimes, but it just gives you

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Speaker 1: such good energy that it just keeps you on your toes,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd love to know how you got into

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Speaker 1: the training business for you an athlete as a young person,

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Speaker 1: how did this line of work come into your life. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you had to give a picture of case, you

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Speaker 1: duke the early years, I would say that I was

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Speaker 1: doing track and field in school and then dance class

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Speaker 1: after school. The way that I see it is that

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Speaker 1: the melding of those two they gave me this edge

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Speaker 1: because the way that I trained is very it's very graceful,

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Speaker 1: yet it has the athleticism of the track and field

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Speaker 1: and the grace of the dance. And so I just

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Speaker 1: used those two things because I sawt out thinking I

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Speaker 1: was gonna be a dancer, and it just didn't work

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Speaker 1: out for me. Too long to get a solo number one,

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Speaker 1: It wasn't good enough. But I tried and everybody but

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Speaker 1: they smoked and they drank. It was like dancers were

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Speaker 1: not as healthy as I thought. So I think that

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Speaker 1: it was a transition for me to go into something

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Speaker 1: that I can still have movement and I can still

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Speaker 1: be athletic into a class. And I think that's what

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Speaker 1: really put me on the map, is my aerobics classes,

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Speaker 1: my group fitness classes. That was the turning point for me.

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Speaker 1: And you know, then I decided I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: personal training because I really wanted to do. I want

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Speaker 1: to go for the anatomy of movement. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: really go in a way where I can manipulate muscle

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Speaker 1: fibers and design a body. And that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: I can knock myself up with a feather because I

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Speaker 1: don't really know how it all came together, but it

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Speaker 1: was obviously you know, the universe doing its thing. Well.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think we see with every successful person

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Speaker 1: hard work ultimately leads to success. It may take time,

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Speaker 1: but if you stick to your truth and how to

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Speaker 1: have confidence in who you are and what you do,

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Speaker 1: it'll all work out. And I would love to know

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Speaker 1: more about what I would call your holistic approach to training.

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Speaker 1: You aren't just forcing people to do burpies. You're having

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Speaker 1: them do the burpies, but you're also having them reflect

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Speaker 1: on their emotional state. I was saying when I first

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Speaker 1: started incorporating mindfulness into my movement. You know some of

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Speaker 1: the editors that say, well, is it like yoga? Said No,

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Speaker 1: it's not yoga. I said, you know, it's emotional, spiritual,

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Speaker 1: and physical and I didn't mean spiritual as a religion.

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Speaker 1: I just meant how to become your own life's motivation.

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Speaker 1: And they said, well, can you get a tight ask

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Speaker 1: from it? And I was like absolutely, because everybody wants

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Speaker 1: a tight ass. That's so I said, sure, you can,

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Speaker 1: let me show you how. The first thing is that

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Speaker 1: I always say, it's mindset, motivation, and movement. The mindset,

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Speaker 1: motivation and movements seemed to like really click with people

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Speaker 1: because it was like, you know, admit where you're coming from,

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Speaker 1: admit what you need to change, and love yourself in

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Speaker 1: your current form, no matter a health flaw that might be,

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Speaker 1: and then we can go about changing it right. You

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Speaker 1: have to be honest with yourself at this point, and

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Speaker 1: that's the mindset, and then the motivation is finding people

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Speaker 1: to help you because sometimes it's hard to do it alone.

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Speaker 1: And then the movement is the last part. People go

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Speaker 1: on and off their track because they're always coming from

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Speaker 1: a physical place. I want to look like this. I

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Speaker 1: want to look like this, but when you work on

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Speaker 1: your strengthening that first component the mindset, and then you

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Speaker 1: go to the next one is how do I motivate

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Speaker 1: myself so I can stay on this course, the movement,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna happen, it's gonna come, it's gonna be everything

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Speaker 1: you needed to be, and you're gonna stay with it longer.

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Speaker 1: Not saying that you're not gonna go off sometimes because

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Speaker 1: we all do, We all, you know, go off the road.

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Speaker 1: I just say, don't build a house there. That is

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Speaker 1: so well put. Let's shift gears a little bit too.

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Speaker 1: When you first found out that Shonda land is going

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Speaker 1: to be making a serious firstly, what did you think

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Speaker 1: about that? And tell me about meeting Lavern, knowing that

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Speaker 1: this person who's this incredible actor, this incredible activists, who

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Speaker 1: brings so much soulfulness to her own work was going

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Speaker 1: to be playing you in this show. I mean just

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Speaker 1: talking to Shonda and just you know, meeting her and

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Speaker 1: having the zoom within her war room with I mean

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Speaker 1: this long table with these how wrong how many writers

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Speaker 1: and you know, show runners or whatever they were. I

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Speaker 1: was just like, I can't believe this. Your little star struck. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course, I mean, who wouldn't be. That was an

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Speaker 1: amazing experience. And I tell my son about that all

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Speaker 1: the times I'm saying this. You could tell my grandkids.

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Speaker 1: We explained this to them because they need to remember

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Speaker 1: this moment. Was it cathartic for you to be able

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Speaker 1: to share your intel and your emotional journey with people

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Speaker 1: who were going to be able to respect what you

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Speaker 1: were telling them and also use it in a way

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Speaker 1: that wasn't exploitive. Absolutely, it's not the prettiest story. Maybe

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Speaker 1: people will think that we were all like, well, why

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Speaker 1: will we taken while we why do we do it?

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Speaker 1: You know, this is our journey and to be able

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. It's better than the therapy, to

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Speaker 1: to like get it out and know that the world

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Speaker 1: has seen a part of me. I'm not losing I'm

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Speaker 1: not allowing Anna to make me change my view of

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Speaker 1: trusting people, of seeing the greatness and people of wanting

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Speaker 1: to help people. If anything, she reaped that up right.

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Speaker 1: You didn't want this experience to make you reluctant to

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Speaker 1: help people in the future, and I appreciate Shanda giving

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Speaker 1: me this opportunity in Jessica. And then we can get

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Speaker 1: to Laverne. Right, So tell me about your first conversation

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Speaker 1: with Laverne. What did you talk about, What fears did

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Speaker 1: you share with her? What did she say to allay

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Speaker 1: any concerns that you may have had for how she

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Speaker 1: was going to take on this journey of playing you

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Speaker 1: in the show. Well, you know what, when we met,

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Speaker 1: we decided that, well, let me train you first. Let

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Speaker 1: me just show you what I do. And what was

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Speaker 1: her experience. She was fired up. She was like, Ga

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Speaker 1: moved Czy Laverne sound in good shape too, by the way,

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Speaker 1: first time where she said, I haven't shape. But wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, you know, And and that's the difference. People

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Speaker 1: are used to doing that same thing. When you and

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Speaker 1: jet something else into your training program, you're always going

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Speaker 1: to be feeling it. And like she watched me train,

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Speaker 1: and she and I trained her, and I showed a

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Speaker 1: different exercises and she was watching everything. And then I said,

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Speaker 1: I would love to take you to lunch, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we can talk. We did a four hour lunch

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Speaker 1: and I said, I'm going to tell you my life story.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you everything, and can I ask you anything?

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Speaker 1: And she said absolutely. And I told her things that

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Speaker 1: I really don't talk about so that she will understand

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Speaker 1: the depth of me, you know, because I'm I'm more

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Speaker 1: than a pair of thighs and more than an assid

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Speaker 1: arm you know, I'm a heart, in a mind and

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Speaker 1: a spirit, and I really want her to understand that,

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Speaker 1: and she did. I'm so sorry, Oh, don't apologize. Think

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Speaker 1: about what I told her years later, you know. I

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Speaker 1: mean after two marriages, one grade one second one horrible,

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Speaker 1: and what my son had to see and what I'm

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Speaker 1: proud of, how I didn't hide things from him because

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Speaker 1: I wanted him to see, this is who you will

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Speaker 1: never be. Mommy is gonna be fine, but I need

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Speaker 1: you to see this that you do not think that

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Speaker 1: this is what you want to be. I'm giving you

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Speaker 1: the real truth of this, and I took chances with that,

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Speaker 1: and I had to tell us if this is who

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Speaker 1: I am. So when I'm helping someone, I've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff that I know what it is to

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Speaker 1: struggle after what I've been through in my lifetime getting

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Speaker 1: my ass kicked enough time to someone you know no more.

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Speaker 1: And I needed her to know that there's energy out

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Speaker 1: there that you can that you can get on the

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Speaker 1: trajectory up. I always say, look at yourself and find

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Speaker 1: that some wonderful moment that happened to you, some amazing moment.

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Speaker 1: Like everyone, I want to contest and I was like

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Speaker 1: ten years old and my parents are like, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe you want. I can't believe she won. You know,

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Speaker 1: I would say, because I personality and not remember that

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Speaker 1: moment or when I first got my first TV show

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Speaker 1: and I did something. It's like that lives in me.

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Speaker 1: And whenever I get I feel like I'm getting off,

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Speaker 1: I go back and I get those I get that

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Speaker 1: energy and I get that energy. So everything that I've

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Speaker 1: been through, it becomes my radar, or it becomes my energy.

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Speaker 1: That ex husband that did that, he is in my

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Speaker 1: mind's eye he has a dumps hat on sitting in

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Speaker 1: a corner. It is back to me and what I

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Speaker 1: want to feel like. And remember the bad bitch that

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Speaker 1: I am might say, turn around, I say thank you

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Speaker 1: because you told me everything. I never would have ever, ever,

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Speaker 1: ever having a man ever again, I would choose better.

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Speaker 1: And I needed her to know these things because that's

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Speaker 1: what makes me me understand someone else's plight. I can

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Speaker 1: see nobody's perfect what's perfection? What's perfection? But one's perception.

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Speaker 1: So how I see you and perceive you. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: look for the greatness in you first. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to be the victim and the path hold me back.

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Speaker 1: It is what makes me who I am. And she

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Speaker 1: listened to me and she let me ask questions about her.

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Speaker 1: I asked, how does it feel to be the woman

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Speaker 1: you always wanted to be? She would feel amazing. It

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Speaker 1: was a great, a really great talk, and I really

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Speaker 1: needed needed her to know so she can build from

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Speaker 1: that too, right, And first, I just want to say

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Speaker 1: thank you for sharing that. I know it's not an

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Speaker 1: easy thing to talk about. And then secondly, what a

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Speaker 1: gift to give an actor to really take that person

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Speaker 1: inside your soul and explain how that is informing your

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Speaker 1: approach to teaching people how to be fit to feel better.

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Speaker 1: I'm just so happy that Seanda chose her, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just happy to be in this historical moment. Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: much more to the story coming up right after this. Okay, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Inventing Anna, the official podcast. Now we're

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Speaker 1: going back around five years when you first met Anna,

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Speaker 1: and you probably couldn't have worked with someone so counter

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Speaker 1: to your own person. These concepts you've described were so foreign,

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Speaker 1: the idea of being open and laying bare her fears

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Speaker 1: and her hesitations about herself. Tell me about, first of all,

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Speaker 1: what your career was like at that point, who your

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Speaker 1: clients were around that time, and again bring us back

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Speaker 1: to that first meeting with Anna. Well, you know what

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Speaker 1: the thing with Anna is that she wasn't like a

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Speaker 1: lot of women that would come to me at first glance.

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Speaker 1: You know, they come in and they all want someone

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Speaker 1: else's body, so they want the cosmetic transformation. Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: what they're focusing on. And Anna was no different than

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Speaker 1: any other young woman. So she didn't come in saying that.

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Speaker 1: I said, Wow, she's crazy. You know, she was a

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Speaker 1: young woman that was full of ambition, She knew what

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Speaker 1: she wanted. I think she said that she loved the

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Speaker 1: idea that she heard that I was training to call

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Speaker 1: to Johnson. She was kind of like drawn to me

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Speaker 1: because of that. You know, was this before after fifty shades?

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Speaker 1: Were you getting the code and shape four fifty shades?

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Speaker 1: Or was this after? Well this the second, second and

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Speaker 1: third one, okay, But at the same time I had

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Speaker 1: left to go to Russia to do a press thing

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Speaker 1: with Kate Beckinsale. So she was in the midst of

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Speaker 1: a lot, you know, me traveling and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people they loved the idea of being with like a

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Speaker 1: celebrity trainer give me a break, well, especially Anna, especially Anna.

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Speaker 1: But she was she wasn't really rude, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the beginning. She really wasn't rude to me. She was

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Speaker 1: rude to people around her. Even in the gym, she

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Speaker 1: was a little rude. Do you think that she saw

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Speaker 1: in you more of a mentor figure than than she

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Speaker 1: was used to being around, because you really did bring

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Speaker 1: this energy into her life that it seems, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not an expert, that she didn't really have from anyone else.

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Speaker 1: Is that true? I think so. I would. I would

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Speaker 1: hope so, because she I think she wasn't expecting me

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Speaker 1: to approach her in this way because when she was

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Speaker 1: working out, I was like, Okay, we need to work

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Speaker 1: on a couple of things. I said, you need to

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Speaker 1: pull your enabled towards your spine. That is your creative center.

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Speaker 1: I said, you go in front of these people who

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Speaker 1: you want money from. And she was saying that she's

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Speaker 1: having these meetings. You have to go in there with confidence,

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Speaker 1: don't sink into your body, pull up. Up. How you

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Speaker 1: do this is how do you do everything on half athic?

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Speaker 1: Your toys and done beautiful, and we talked about the whole,

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Speaker 1: my whole you know, bad bitch philosophy is like, it's

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Speaker 1: not about you being mean to anyone. It's more unless

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Speaker 1: you're walking in your power and it helps your posture.

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Speaker 1: And she was very open to that. So there were

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Speaker 1: elements that she didn't do anything that most young women

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Speaker 1: or most people don't do. Instead of just saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: in casey, this is really hard, I need a break

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Speaker 1: for a minute, she was more like, my phone, I

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Speaker 1: need to that's something you can do this Paine is

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Speaker 1: weakly sleeping the body. Anna off your phone, experience the

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Speaker 1: beauty at this moment when is over fifteen seconds, keep

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Speaker 1: going every rep, house, every rap. You know. Anna just

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Speaker 1: had a a tick of sorts. It was almost like

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Speaker 1: someone was like holding a mirror and watching their every move.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting. So everything was like even when she was

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Speaker 1: working out, she was like, am I doing this as

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Speaker 1: anybody watching me? You know what I'm saying? She was,

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Speaker 1: I think working on who she was becoming, right, But

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Speaker 1: she was very nice. She didn't she didn't mess with

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Speaker 1: me because I put her in a place really quickly,

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Speaker 1: and she really liked me. She liked hanging out with me,

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Speaker 1: but and I really liked her. I wanted her to succeed.

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Speaker 1: That's why I introduced it to some people that I

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Speaker 1: thought that she would because she had no friends. You know,

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Speaker 1: she living in a hotel. And you are a parent

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Speaker 1: in real life and a grandma ana grandma, which is

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Speaker 1: so impressive. If people could just see the way you

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Speaker 1: look right now, you are so glam and so fit

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Speaker 1: and so youthful looking. It's really quite a certain I do.

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Speaker 1: I'm a glamor girl, that's for sure. We do have

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Speaker 1: that in common with the Verne and I. But there's

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Speaker 1: something sort of sweet in the idea that maybe she

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Speaker 1: was getting a maternal energy from you that she really needed.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not you were consciously giving that energy to her,

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Speaker 1: it seems from what I've read in the story and

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Speaker 1: obviously watching the in the series, that there was some

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Speaker 1: level of comfort that you provided to her. Were you

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Speaker 1: aware of that interaction, yes, because I would say I

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Speaker 1: want you to succeed, And I told I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have some your age. You know I mean this.

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Speaker 1: I said, you're doing great things. I want you them

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Speaker 1: to take you seriously. Because she would always say they're

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Speaker 1: not taking me serious. The meeting is canceled. There was

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Speaker 1: always something about someone doing something to her with this thing,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I

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Speaker 1: always have said, you know what, take it easy, you know,

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Speaker 1: go here and just relaxed or something. So I did

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Speaker 1: have I did take her onto my wing a bit,

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Speaker 1: and she had a dog on great idea, and I

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Speaker 1: was happy that she just wasn't just you know, wasting

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Speaker 1: it on some other nonsense. She was really, I don't know, girls,

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Speaker 1: just I want to do is just shop, Not that

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Speaker 1: she didn't. She really had wanted to do something, and

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Speaker 1: I bought into it because that's what I saw. We're

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Speaker 1: also an entrepreneur yourself. You appreciated that this woman was

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Speaker 1: taking control of her life, starting her own business. What's

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Speaker 1: not to like about that? Exactly? And it reminded me

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Speaker 1: of me when I you know, my parents always say

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Speaker 1: you agree, why don't you just do something else? Was

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Speaker 1: this like fifthness stuff, And it's like, I'm so happy

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Speaker 1: that I didn't listen to them, and they're so happy

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Speaker 1: that I didn't listen to them. That's why I raised

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Speaker 1: my son. Do you don't play it? Say jump and

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Speaker 1: let the net appear. Really go for your dreams. Even

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Speaker 1: if you fail, you'll learn something from that failure. I

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Speaker 1: think big, dream big, and that's what I really saw Nanna.

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Speaker 1: She was dreaming big. I mean for her to her

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Speaker 1: and steal from people and rip people off. Right, there's

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Speaker 1: dreaming big, and then there's within the confines of the law. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's the law. Let's see. A word that has come

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Speaker 1: up in a lot of these interviews with the real

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Speaker 1: life folks but also the actors who have worked in

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Speaker 1: the show is this term of shape shifter and how

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Speaker 1: Anna herself was sort of depending on whom she was with.

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Speaker 1: She was changing that version of herself to either suit

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Speaker 1: the situation or suit the person. What version of Anna

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Speaker 1: do you think you experienced. I think it was the

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Speaker 1: vulnerable Anna, and I think it was the Anna that

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Speaker 1: needed a confidant. I think she needed someone who was

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Speaker 1: like a mother maybe mother is not the right word,

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Speaker 1: with someone that she could lean on, that she can trust,

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Speaker 1: that she knew was solid. My trust allowance doesn't come

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Speaker 1: until the first and the business that don't take me

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Speaker 1: seriously just because of it. I know about misindependent, independent woman,

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Speaker 1: but lot has happened to you? You were moved? Have

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Speaker 1: you called your parents? What happens? I don't un this

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Speaker 1: stuff to me. They don't have to understand you that

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Speaker 1: your parents they love you. She knew I had, you know,

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Speaker 1: kids and grandkids. She knew that I had a home.

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Speaker 1: She knew that I like to eat healthy, she knew

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Speaker 1: that I would always say, like, what are you eating tonight?

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Speaker 1: Where you going tonight? Or what do you know? I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, you gotta get up early tomorrow. Don't go crazy.

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Speaker 1: You know someone that really was interested in like she

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Speaker 1: would call just case him having a moment. You have

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Speaker 1: the time to talk, and she might just rattle on.

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Speaker 1: But I think she just needed someone that was a

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Speaker 1: more mature figure in her life, but at the same

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Speaker 1: time was super cool. And I could have a glass

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Speaker 1: of rose with her and invite her to a dinner

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Speaker 1: party and she would feel comfortable. And I always said,

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Speaker 1: and you're an old soul, and you're also one of

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Speaker 1: the few people in her life who she perceived didn't

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Speaker 1: want something from her. You were solid in your career,

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Speaker 1: you were solid and who you were, you didn't need

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Speaker 1: anything from her. And maybe there was a comfort in

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Speaker 1: the I think so. Yeah. Remember the first time she

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Speaker 1: came over, when she came up with the dinner party

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Speaker 1: that I, you know, I gave so she could meet

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Speaker 1: some interesting people, artists and directors, and she bought a

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Speaker 1: bottle of Dumperon and I thought that was like, this

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00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,239
Speaker 1: is too much, Like, well, she doesn't know I had

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Speaker 1: that so many bottles of this. It's okay, It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like the bottles of it. How's my another? That's

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Speaker 1: pretty good. I have to say that bottles of it?

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Speaker 1: But I was thinking, girl, you have to spend this money.

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Speaker 1: I have tons of wine. This is a lot. This

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Speaker 1: is your birthday, it's your birthday coming up. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just so um. She wanted to impress you. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like she did. And I mean, I always tell

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Speaker 1: the story about how she said to me one day.

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Speaker 1: She says, he say, you have great hands. Your your

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Speaker 1: hands are really nice. Your nails are just so weak.

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Speaker 1: You need to have this nail polish. Is something for

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Speaker 1: a nail polish. And I was like, and I don't

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Speaker 1: really wear a lot of because I worked with weights.

402
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Speaker 1: And she says, no, but this is a neutral, this

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00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: is right for you. And she was right. She did

404
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: give you some long lasting advice. Then I'd love to

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Speaker 1: talk now about your first meeting with Jessica Pressler, who

406
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Speaker 1: did such a fantastic job reporting this circus of a story, right,

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Speaker 1: and obviously you were very close to her, you gave

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Speaker 1: her all this great intel. But then also tell me

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Speaker 1: about your ultimate decision to pull your name from the article.

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Speaker 1: You know. I think it started with when Rachel did

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Speaker 1: an article and I didn't know about it, and then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, somebody's calling me from some place

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Speaker 1: of fat check something. I said, what, and and just

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Speaker 1: to refresh people's memories, Rachel wrote a first person piece

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Speaker 1: for Vanity Fair about Anna, and so in that piece

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Speaker 1: you were referenced, and thus the fact checker called you yes,

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Speaker 1: and I said, you cannot use my name, okay, I said, no,

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Speaker 1: no way. It just felt very sleazy to me, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't want you any my clients to feel like

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Speaker 1: that was in the midst of some craziness, and I

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Speaker 1: was just protecting myself and my brand. I told Rachel

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Speaker 1: we should contact Anna's parents. We could find them online

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00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: or something. So you spoke to Anna's parents. Now, he

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Speaker 1: says she wanted to think about it, and then I

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Speaker 1: see her article today. If she would have told me

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Speaker 1: that she was going to do this to try to

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Speaker 1: reap the money back from you know, what she lost,

428
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: maybe I would have said, Okay, how are you gonna

429
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: do this? Okay, well, well she did rip you off.

430
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: I can't that. I cannot, you know, Deny. So I

431
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: think that with Jessica it was just too much because

432
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, another one, Wait a minute, wait

433
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: a minute, Casey, I need your story. I am done

434
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: with Annadelphia in her chaos, please. And I was afraid

435
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: that it was going to show me in a bad light,

436
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, because there's a party of just saying that

437
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: did I create this person with you know, being a

438
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: graceful gangster? Did I create this person being a bad

439
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: Was this sort of like a Frankenstein thing where you

440
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: empowered her so much? Right? Yeah? It just comes crashing

441
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: down like whoa, this person is not who you thought

442
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: she was. This woman is like in the news as

443
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: a psycho, and here this person is calling me. And

444
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: then I actually I think I said to Jessica, that's

445
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: not me, and she said, Casey, we know this is you.

446
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 1: So you tried to get out of it. I tried

447
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: to get out. It was so many times people were

448
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: asking me, this sounds like you, this sounds like you,

449
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: and I was like no, no, no, so I denied it.

450
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: It's the problem of being so good at your job

451
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: and people knew you in those circles that you couldn't

452
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: deny who you were, and they were saying things. They

453
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: were saying, well, I think she said something about an

454
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: open if you vibe with it a young angela basset Biden,

455
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that sounds kind of cute,

456
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: but I have the quote right here that actually ends

457
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: up in Jessica's Peace, a spelt ageless Oprah esque figure

458
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 1: who also works with celebrities like Dakota Johnson. So firstly,

459
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: I want to know how did it feel to even

460
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: be in the same sentence as Oprah. It was pretty amazing.

461
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: I was like wow, I said, okay, Jessica, I love you.

462
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: Then you forgave her a little bit, right, Yeah. That

463
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: was like wow, because she didn't I didn't allow how

464
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: to use my name, and so wow did she really?

465
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: I was like, thank you? And that's what journalists do

466
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: if if someone says, don't use my name, we have

467
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: to honor that, and that's what's so important about that process. Absolutely,

468
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: and she was very she was very gracious to me.

469
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: I mean, we sat down and we talked, and she

470
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: was very understanding. She understood why I was reluctant, and

471
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: I was finding out a lot of stuff at that time,

472
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: and Rachel and this, it was like, Wow, it's a

473
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: lot of head spending, probably processing time for years. And

474
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: you also do think about, like, why did this happen

475
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: to me? What drew her? What did I do to

476
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: invite this into my life? And then at the end

477
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: of the day, it's like, this is someone's child who

478
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: needed some help, and I have no regrets except that

479
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: she didn't use her very clever brain to do better. Right,

480
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: So I want to go back to the article to

481
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: references that I think we're at least as a reader

482
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: and also someone who has seen the show, seemed like

483
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: milestone events for you in terms of your relationship with Anna,

484
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the Morocco trip, where we really started

485
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: to see you as a character and also as a

486
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: figure in the story, having conflicted feelings about abandoning this

487
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: person who you sense was in need, but also having

488
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 1: to protect yourself from that drama. That must have been

489
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: a difficult balance. Oh my goodness. You know that's the part,

490
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, when I was watching, it was hard to watch.

491
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: I watched that piece last because it would trigger. You know,

492
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: the whole Morocco episode was triggering for you. It was

493
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: triggering for me because we all ate the same exact food.

494
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: I didn't understand like I thought I had ebola. I

495
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: was so sick. I was looking my rooms were showing.

496
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta get home.

497
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: It was horrible. And before that it was a nice time.

498
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: But Edna was still going through. She was crying in

499
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: her room and I like, what's Nan And I was like,

500
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: oh god, I'm missing all this great son. What the heck?

501
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: You're like, I came here all the way for this.

502
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: I was like, oh man. And then Rachel is like,

503
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: you know, babying or like, oh well when you know,

504
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, these two bitches me relax,

505
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: uh oh, glad, I have a boy. It's the ultimate

506
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: example of I remember my parents saying I need a

507
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: vacation from this vacation really, and I definitely needed a

508
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: vacation from that vacation. I'm in this beautiful place that

509
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: I've always dreamt of going. And it was magical and

510
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: that was exactly the place we stay. That was I mean,

511
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: I saw my bedroom and my suite over there. I

512
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: was like, this is they did a great job. Felt surreal,

513
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, But it was you know, this is

514
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: like a job to me because she's been doing this

515
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: documentary and we're going to get her doing all tennis

516
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: and working out and showing her healthy and and that

517
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: she's going for it. But it's just so wild that

518
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: when I was so sick and I had to leave,

519
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: and I said, can you please, can you give me

520
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: my return ticket because I have to leave? I look

521
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: at me. So she said, well, we don't have return tickets.

522
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: Just I was like what And so I was like

523
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: and I said, he had take my credit card. Please

524
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: just get me a flight, please, please, Rachel. And she

525
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: was nice enough to do that for me. And just

526
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: going out and just walking down when the when the

527
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: security god said, you know, where are you going? I

528
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: thought they were saying you're so sick, where are you going?

529
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: You thought they were worried about too. Yeah, And so

530
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: you look back on all of that and you know

531
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: what's going on, It's like, wow, do you get the

532
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: vacation the universe might even have? Wow? I was taken

533
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: out of a situation that I really could have been

534
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: caught up in. And I know that I've been like, Okay,

535
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: let's make this work. He has credit cards, here's this,

536
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: And it was like Universe said, this is not your story.

537
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: Here you go get sick a litt bit. You'd be

538
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: all right boot in a minute, just get home a

539
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: bit of a blessing, right yes to this day, I

540
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: know that this was divine intervention. Wow. And I want

541
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: to talk about one of their milestone moments in the article.

542
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: This is after the trip sort of the aftermath continues

543
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: where Anna showing up at your building. She's very broken down.

544
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: She's sort of hysterical, and she is threatening to hurt herself.

545
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: But this I guess, um, oh, it's all afraid to

546
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: be alone tonight. She knew how that would affect me

547
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: towards suicide around like that for me as a reader,

548
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: and also again watching the show, this is where it

549
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: gets scary and coercive and really worrying. Take me back

550
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: to how you felt aside from being so annoyed with

551
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: her at this point what was your emotional state. Wow,

552
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: this is a hard one for me because it it

553
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: broke me because I saw her in the same dress

554
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: that she had been wearing for a long time. I

555
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: saw something that wasn't right, and I tried to get

556
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: to the bottom of it. And it was four hours

557
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: it turned out to be almost morning before I realized

558
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: that she really needed to stay with me because she

559
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: was lost. She had nowhere else to go. I said,

560
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: I said, why don't you go back to the hotel.

561
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: We'll get it together tomorrow. I said, get some rest,

562
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: And she says, no, I can't go back there. I can't.

563
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: She's I'm afraid what I would do to myself. I

564
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. How am I going to

565
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: make these people understand? And there was something else going on,

566
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: But I'm looking at her, and I'm looking at her

567
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: feet and looking at this clothing. I'm like, this is

568
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 1: not Anna. That's always so put together. And and even now,

569
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean I can I can cry thinking about this

570
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: young lady was out there and I thought that maybe

571
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: she was sleeping on a bench and maybe someone hurt her.

572
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know. She got me mat to jail,

573
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: and she had no place to go because she looked broken,

574
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at her, It's like, this is again

575
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: someone's child and they are in this country by themselves.

576
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: And she was babbling about so many things she made

577
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: no sense. I must have felt really scary. Yeah, and

578
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: it felt scary, but it also it felt like, man,

579
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: this girl needs to go home. And that's what I

580
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: said to her. I said, you need to go home

581
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: and regroup, be with your family, come back stronger. And

582
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: she was like they were in Africa and they're on

583
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: somewhere and they're doing something. It was always something, but

584
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: this was real broken Anna. This wasn't like a fake

585
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: because she had no place else to go. It wasn't

586
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: the prettiest moment. And every time I go back and

587
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,239
Speaker 1: I think about getting sick and going back, and then

588
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: the idea that she calls me from Casablanca and that

589
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: they were going to arrest her, and like, how I

590
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: talk these people out and not arresting her. It is

591
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: only by her crazy God, you know, I used everything.

592
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: I tried, every credit card. Friends, I'm so that that

593
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: it didn't work, because my friends would hate me right now,

594
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: My sister, my friends, they all gave me He's like,

595
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: oh sure, and I was like, he's good for it.

596
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: I promised it was my credit card wasn't working. Oh mg,

597
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: that was something else. Well, we're going to take a

598
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: quick break, but we'll be right back. And now we're

599
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: back to the interview. So another milestone moment in the

600
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: article and of course in the series is the infamous

601
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: intervention where you go to lunch with Rachel and under

602
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: the guys of just having a girl's lunch, Anna shows

603
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: up and you sort of lay down the law and

604
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: say you have to fix this problem after she stole

605
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: Rachel's money. Firstly, tell us what that was like when

606
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: it really happened, and walk us through what it was

607
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: like to see that represented in the series. I was

608
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: so angry at Anna. I was so pissed what she

609
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: was doing to Rachel because Rachel was calling me and

610
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: I was running in the park and Rachel called me

611
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: and she said that, you know, this is what's going on,

612
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: and Anna is a con So that was the first

613
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: time that word had been used to describe Anna. Yeah,

614
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean, she was crying so much. I was like, okay,

615
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: Rachel stopped for a second. In the meantime, Anna is

616
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: blowing my phone up and it's in my lobby and

617
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: wants to hang out. And I said, I said, when's

618
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: the last time you saw And he said, I can't

619
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: even reach Anna. I was like, really, because she's telling

620
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: me this and I'm saying, well, she's calling me now.

621
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, we're gonna put a stop to this.

622
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: We're gonna find out the truth. And I said, meet me.

623
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: And I was with a client of mine, and I said, okay.

624
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: I said, we're gonna corner her. We're gonna both face her,

625
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: and she's got to tell the truth. And that's what

626
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: was in my head, you know. But I didn't realize

627
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: and I asked Nicole to pick her up that I

628
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking that Nicole had her own set of issues

629
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: that I should have never brought her around. This is

630
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: your client, yes, and I should never have brought it.

631
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: She said, well, I'm going that way anyway. I'm gonna

632
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: be walking home, so I might as well just I

633
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: could just drop her off. By the time I got this,

634
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: she had already had brought a couple of bottles of

635
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: rose and and and Anna sitting there just like loving

636
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: you see her in the show and join her Rose too.

637
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: That was she was brilliant. She got there right. So

638
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: when we got there and we walked in, it was

639
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: so shocking to me because they were there. This is

640
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: a little different than within the series. When we walked in,

641
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: she was there and she was like, oh, hello, Anna

642
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: was waiting for you in the restaurant because I had

643
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: to meet Rachel. And on the way to the restaurant,

644
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: Rachel's like, I don't know, she's stop it. I said,

645
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: just stop. I said, you just off this crying doesn't

646
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: stand in your palace and you can't walk in there

647
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: and be the victim. I said, you gotta. We have

648
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: to be powerbl we gonna approach. We're gonna go on

649
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: on her and say we want the truth right now,

650
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: which we want the truth. So as a unified front,

651
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: the two of you had to do this together, right

652
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: Because I finally called said what's going on with Rachel's money?

653
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 1: She says, I'm gonna pay her? What are you talking about?

654
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: I just spoke to her. I said, I told her

655
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: I was going to have a check for her. And

656
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: Rachel's telling me she went to get out want to

657
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: pick up a check. She wasn't even there. Well this didn't.

658
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, she doesn't know that Rachel

659
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: was talking to me because she didn't really know that

660
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: Rachel even had my number. So Rachel's telling me one

661
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: thing and it's telling me another thing. And I said, Okay,

662
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: we're gonna straighten this stuff out, and was part of

663
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: you just thinking why am I involved in this? Like,

664
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: oh my god, pack me away from this chaos. When

665
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: I finally got there, I was like, what the heck?

666
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: Because I had my client who was like, she was really,

667
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: she was really good. Fine, Anna going like she's mouth

668
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: and she's crazy and so look again Anna trying to

669
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: get that Nicole is behind it acting crazy, and I'm

670
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 1: like and Rachel is whining and crying, and I'm like, oh, shoot,

671
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: this is a mess that I that I actually created here.

672
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: So I was like, I wanted everybody just to sit

673
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: down for a minute and just let's just talk this up.

674
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: But Anna was not even cheap, was so dog and pooh.

675
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: She didn't really lose it until one point where she

676
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: was like, why are you being a dramatic Rachel? Why

677
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: are you crying? Why are you doing this dude? Why

678
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: are you being like a so dramatic, ending dramatic. You

679
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: always pretend to promote peace, but really you just love

680
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: a riot. You crave drama. You've left her in a

681
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: horrible situation. She's about to lose her apartment, she can

682
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: lose her job. And I couldn't help but say, you

683
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: stole her money. What do you think she's upset about?

684
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: It was like the idea that she says, what do

685
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: you so what? He's a dramatic. I just couldn't believe

686
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: what was happening. So you're the one who told her

687
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: that the building she wanted had been rented. Yes, the

688
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: reason why it said because my ex boyfriend who was

689
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: Swedish and she he said, oh, by the way that

690
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: building is bought. But is this? Is she involved in this?

691
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: And I was like what? So I showed it to her.

692
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: Did her tenor change when you shared that with her? No?

693
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: She was more like this fake news. But you can

694
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: see that she started to get a little bit antsy.

695
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: And then Nicole said, would you like some more? But

696
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: he wants some want to order something, wants to rose

697
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: and she says, yes, I love I love some and

698
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: she ate So after all that, she's still stuck around

699
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: and ate she we were in the midstage because Nicole

700
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: was ordering stuff and ordering like things to eat and

701
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: like she was she was eating. To what degree did

702
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: that whole event signal for you? This is the beginning

703
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: of the end for this person. That was when I

704
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: knew she was definitely a con. Okay, she was not

705
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: who she said she was, you know, because all the

706
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: things she was was doing to Rachel she was. She

707
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: even said she had a check and then Rachel went

708
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: there and she said I lost the check. I mean

709
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: there were things that I was like, what right? So

710
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: I walked away from that saying I'm done. I can't

711
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: do this. My client called me the next day. She

712
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: was goat and she was like, they why don't you

713
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: pull on the endo. It was like, Uh, it wasn't

714
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: the Casey moment that I wanted it to be. That's

715
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: for sure. I was like, oh Jesus, it's like, what

716
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: did I do? But I now, you know, I noticed

717
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: it a little bit more boundaries and and not to

718
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: just because someone is willing to do something for you,

719
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: like not to bring them into something that I don't

720
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: really know what I'm walking into. I thought it would

721
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: be like she would saying okay, because I mean I

722
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: offered to pay her home way home. I opened to

723
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: call her parents. I open to give her money to

724
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: go to the to Europe, to get to the bank

725
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: and everything. I said, don't worry about the money you

726
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: owe me. I said, just pay. I said, don't even

727
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: worry about it. Let's just get Rachel's money. How can

728
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: we do this fast? How can we do this? Anna?

729
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: She's like, I told you the money is coming. It said,

730
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: da da whatever. I'm sorry that I do have voice,

731
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: but it's like I hear it in my head. You know.

732
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: Tell me about your overall emotional response to the show,

733
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: outside of those moments that I know we're triggering and

734
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: difficult to watch. Was there something that stuck out to

735
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: you as funny, something that surprised you. What were your

736
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: favorite scenes? I mean, for la Berne scenes. I think

737
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: our sex love magacine was absolutely astronomically sensational. We'll have

738
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: to rashing it and we work up a swap. M hm.

739
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 1: She looked really hot. Not. I was like, okay, girl,

740
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: you did that was really how I would have done it. No,

741
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: that was really great and um it was sweet. Great moments.

742
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: You know what I love I loved some of the

743
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: banter with Anna Smith in their office and they're they're

744
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: all helping her, you mean, with with Anna Klumsky's character

745
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: and her coworkers, Yes, and her co workers. I loved

746
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: the banter. It was fast moving and it was sassy,

747
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: and it was just so it was so New York

748
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: because I saw I take ba. That was a great

749
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: scene when they were like and when I said, yes

750
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: that I would do in everybody class, Okay, thank you,

751
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna get an elevator for them in my house.

752
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: I was like yeah, And I was like, oh, I'm

753
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: classing for me. Were there are parts of the story

754
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: that you didn't know about that show to you that

755
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: took place that maybe you just weren't even aware pet happened. Yeah,

756
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: a lot of Anna's relationship. I didn't know how deep

757
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: this love affair was. That was interesting, you know, because

758
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: I didn't get anything from her like that. I asked

759
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: her about, you know, I said, what you're dating? Do

760
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: you have a boyfriend and you know, you know, do

761
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: you want to date someone? She says, I don't. I've

762
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: had it right now with Matt. He's I've been hurt

763
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: and I've had it. So she never really told you

764
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: about her romantic life. She just said that she was hurt.

765
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: Someone heard her and I said, I can be late.

766
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: And again I told less that you cannot let that

767
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: bring you more bad relationships. That was one and learned

768
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: from it and then let it be your radar. Do

769
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: not let it just drag you down, because you know,

770
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: some women say, I'm never gonna let that happen to

771
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: me again. I'm never gonna trust anybody again. I'm never

772
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: never gonna every and they just keep attracting that same thing.

773
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: So we talked about that a bit, and oh I

774
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: didn't know about her parents. That moved me because I

775
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: was like her parents for so long, you know, for

776
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: those months. And when I when her mother's said that,

777
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, we give birth to our children, but you know,

778
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: we don't control the narrative who they are, how would

779
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: they become? That hit me because that now I'm looking

780
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: at Anna and I'm like, Wow, this is someone child,

781
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: this is the parents, you know, and this is what

782
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: they were going through. And then I felt like I

783
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: was happy that I gave her the time that I did,

784
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, because I wasn't one. I always want to

785
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: go out of them this, Come on and deck and

786
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: have a just have a nice glass of rose and talk.

787
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: And I'm happy that I spent that time with her.

788
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: I still think she was worthy of it. Has the

789
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: series given you a renewed sense of maybe warm feelings

790
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: for her and that that was time well spent? Yeah?

791
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: Seeing how how where she came from? It does it

792
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: makes me want her to to make better choices? What?

793
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: It makes me want her to win when she gets out.

794
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: I want her to win. I want her to win

795
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: by doing the right thing, but not toting and just

796
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: letting this bad thing be her calling card. Flip it around, right.

797
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: She has an opportunity now to be her own Casey

798
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: duke right to live live through something unpleasant. But how

799
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: can she turn it into something good? Yeah, without having

800
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: to hang onto that unpleasant thing? Because success is the

801
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: best revenge. That is very true. So if you could

802
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: talk to her today, what would you say to her?

803
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: I said what I said to her when she came

804
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: out of JEL and she called me to do some

805
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: video with her reunion or something, and I said I

806
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: can't do that. I said, you have a new platform here.

807
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: Whatever this is going to do for you? Make better choices.

808
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're smart, girl, use your fame to do

809
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: some really great stuff. You're smart, you know, really enjoy

810
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: your life. And she could if she really put her

811
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: mind to it, if she doesn't try to let the

812
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: ego rule her. She makes her ego her friend and say, yes,

813
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: I did some bad things, but you know I had

814
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 1: some good ideas and intentions and I would have paid

815
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 1: people back. And I'm gonna do this this arts club,

816
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: and I'm going to show people that I'm going to

817
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: I hope that she will take that direction. Maybe some

818
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: humility will come with age as well. Let's hope. So

819
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: let's hope. So I'm just I am optimistic. Well that

820
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: is your calling card and actually a perfect segue to

821
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: my final question, which is we got to hear a

822
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: lot of your great mantras in the show. You're obviously

823
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: someone who lives everything she preaches. So what is your

824
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: mantra this is getting you through the days? These days?

825
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: I think my mantra right now is this is your life, Casey,

826
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: and it's the very life of lives and the time

827
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: you have left live it to the fullest. Hey, we

828
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: can't end on any better note than that. So I

829
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: want to say thank you so much, Casey for joining us.

830
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: This was so fun, so moving. Thank you for being

831
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: so raw with us. And I think again, the story

832
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: continues to take on new shapes, new angles, and you've

833
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: added even more dimension to it. So thank you so much. Well,

834
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: thank you and thank you Chant for giving me this

835
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: opportunity in this platform. And I know my parents in

836
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: heaven and they are absolutely so happy and they love

837
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: her work and and I'm just blessed to be a

838
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: part of this. And I hope good things happen to

839
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: everybody involved and that we all do better. I agree.

840
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thanks so much for you guys,

841
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: thank you for spending time with us behind the scenes

842
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: of inventing Anna. Next week we'll be back with three

843
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: very special guests. I'm so excited. I'll be talking with

844
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: legendary theater actors Jeff Perry, Anna Davia Smith, and Terry Kenney.

845
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: That's right, Scribe, Area is headed your way. Something about

846
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: this little Greek chorus of old people sent to journalism Siberia.

847
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: I think Anna took issue with you using the word

848
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: old just now, by the way, I like sorry, I

849
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: was the only old one. Sorry if you're enjoying this show, subscribe,

850
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: share with your friends, rate, and leave us a review.

851
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: All that good stuff. And if you haven't finished binging

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Speaker 1: Shonda Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing Anna

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Speaker 1: the Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman,

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Speaker 1: Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is

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Speaker 1: Nicholas Harder, and the show is produced and hosted by

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Speaker 1: me Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is

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Speaker 1: a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.