WEBVTT - Michael Lewis Interviews His Producer 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:15.836 Push Kim. 0:00:19.436 --> 0:00:21.996 Hey there, it's Michael Lewis here with a special episode. 0:00:22.956 --> 0:00:25.476 While she's been working on this show, my producer, Lydia 0:00:25.556 --> 0:00:28.156 jen Kott has also been working on a new show 0:00:28.196 --> 0:00:31.996 of her own. It's called The Chinatown Sting and it's 0:00:31.996 --> 0:00:35.276 an international crime saga that takes place in the late. 0:00:35.116 --> 0:00:36.796 Eighties and early nineteen nineties. 0:00:38.436 --> 0:00:40.916 Earlier this week, I talked with LJ about The Chinatown 0:00:40.996 --> 0:00:43.796 Sting at an event at a coffee shop in Brooklyn 0:00:44.076 --> 0:00:47.476 called Land to Sea. That's a place that hosts monthly 0:00:47.556 --> 0:00:50.556 Majong Nights, a game that's a little bit like Domino's 0:00:50.596 --> 0:00:55.436 and relevant to her show. Here's our conversation and then 0:00:55.476 --> 0:00:58.916 we'll hear part of the first episode. I hope you'll 0:00:58.956 --> 0:01:02.996 go subscribe to The Chinatown Sting. All six episodes are 0:01:02.996 --> 0:01:10.836 out now and it's a great listenin. 0:01:11.596 --> 0:01:15.516 So why don't we start? But I want you to 0:01:15.556 --> 0:01:18.276 just explain. You have to tell the whole story because 0:01:18.276 --> 0:01:19.556 you don't want to ruin that way. 0:01:19.796 --> 0:01:24.396 But how you stumbled into the story like this, how 0:01:24.436 --> 0:01:26.516 you got this material because the material. 0:01:26.196 --> 0:01:30.956 Is great, Okay, So the story is kind of I 0:01:30.956 --> 0:01:34.796 would say, a family legend of sorts. My partner's mom, 0:01:34.916 --> 0:01:37.036 who I've known ever since I was little. She's a 0:01:37.036 --> 0:01:37.996 federal judge. 0:01:37.716 --> 0:01:41.276 In Washington, DC, Beryl Howell. Beryl Howell, who I have 0:01:41.436 --> 0:01:42.236 met separately. 0:01:43.036 --> 0:01:45.796 I spoke to this court, the district court, all the judges, 0:01:46.036 --> 0:01:49.196 and she's an impressive character, a little scary actually. 0:01:48.996 --> 0:01:49.636 A little scary. 0:01:49.836 --> 0:01:50.396 Yeah, yeah. 0:01:51.676 --> 0:01:55.676 And this is the story of her first case. So 0:01:55.716 --> 0:01:58.796 it's a case that she talked about a lot because 0:01:59.076 --> 0:02:00.916 the people in it really made an impression on her. 0:02:01.356 --> 0:02:03.196 And I always kind of wanted to know more about 0:02:03.196 --> 0:02:04.716 this case and do a story about it, but I 0:02:04.716 --> 0:02:07.596 didn't think that would be an option because federal judges 0:02:07.636 --> 0:02:11.436 don't usually give interviews or talked to the media. But 0:02:11.756 --> 0:02:13.876 after knowing her for years and years and years, I 0:02:13.876 --> 0:02:17.396 finally just asked, and she said, sure, and tell us. 0:02:17.316 --> 0:02:19.596 Such a little bit about the story, because we have 0:02:19.636 --> 0:02:21.436 to explain why we're playing my gens. 0:02:21.636 --> 0:02:21.796 Yes. 0:02:21.916 --> 0:02:22.996 Right. 0:02:23.036 --> 0:02:26.916 So there's a young federal prosecutor, Beryl Howell, just a 0:02:26.956 --> 0:02:29.716 few weeks on the job. She has a group of 0:02:30.316 --> 0:02:33.716 all these women who are in custody. They've all been 0:02:35.196 --> 0:02:38.716 caught accepting boxes in the mail boxes that have stuffed 0:02:38.716 --> 0:02:43.436 animals in them, and tea and also millions of dollars 0:02:43.476 --> 0:02:46.676 worth of heroin. A lot of them have young kids, 0:02:47.116 --> 0:02:49.956 and she needs to find out why they why they 0:02:50.036 --> 0:02:53.396 did this, and who they're working for. And they're not talking. 0:02:54.316 --> 0:02:57.196 But the one thing that is connecting them all is 0:02:57.236 --> 0:03:00.676 that they were playing Majong together in Manhattan's Chinatown, because 0:03:00.716 --> 0:03:02.876 this is happened in the nineteen eighties, and at the 0:03:02.916 --> 0:03:06.316 time in Chinatown there were all these like Majong parlors, 0:03:06.316 --> 0:03:08.356 which are kind of like speakeasies where you could play 0:03:08.396 --> 0:03:08.876 the game. 0:03:09.236 --> 0:03:13.836 Your boyfriend's mom. Yes, So, I mean, it's interesting. 0:03:14.276 --> 0:03:18.676 A prosecutor has this huge effect on people's lives, mainly 0:03:18.996 --> 0:03:20.996 ends badly for the people who are being prosecuted if 0:03:20.996 --> 0:03:23.676 it's a federal prosecution, right, the numbers are just shocking. 0:03:23.676 --> 0:03:25.996 Everybody everybody goes to jail or pleads a guilty kind 0:03:26.036 --> 0:03:29.276 of thing. And I've always wondered, partly because I watched 0:03:29.276 --> 0:03:32.196 this now recently with Sam Bagman Freed, how interest did 0:03:32.196 --> 0:03:35.716 the prosecutors stay in these in the lives of the 0:03:35.716 --> 0:03:38.876 people who you know are in their review mirror. Did 0:03:38.956 --> 0:03:42.556 you have the impression that Barrel was especially interested in 0:03:42.876 --> 0:03:45.276 like the people here or was it just the case 0:03:45.356 --> 0:03:45.916 was so weird? 0:03:46.436 --> 0:03:47.796 It was the people. I don't think it was that 0:03:47.836 --> 0:03:49.596 the case was so weird. I think it was the people. 0:03:50.196 --> 0:03:52.116 Did you have the impression that she had she knew 0:03:52.116 --> 0:03:53.796 something about what had happened to them? 0:03:54.076 --> 0:03:56.276 Did you find yourself telling her things that she didn't know? 0:03:56.396 --> 0:03:57.996 She had no idea what happened to them? I think 0:03:57.996 --> 0:03:59.836 it was insane that she thought that I would be 0:03:59.876 --> 0:04:00.636 able to find them. 0:04:00.836 --> 0:04:03.796 Oh all right, Like at. 0:04:03.676 --> 0:04:05.596 Times I was mad at her for being like, oh, 0:04:05.636 --> 0:04:07.076 you should do this, because I was like, do you 0:04:07.156 --> 0:04:09.756 realize the chances of me being able to find these people? 0:04:09.836 --> 0:04:12.076 And then why would they agree to talk to me? 0:04:12.196 --> 0:04:13.636 Like she had no idea at all. 0:04:13.716 --> 0:04:15.676 So, just there are a bunch of There are a 0:04:15.716 --> 0:04:17.996 bunch of characters, and there are these very kind of 0:04:18.076 --> 0:04:20.116 awkward conversations on people's doorsteps. 0:04:20.436 --> 0:04:23.476 In your podcast, just tell us the story of. 0:04:23.836 --> 0:04:26.556 Finding one of the characters and what that was like 0:04:26.636 --> 0:04:29.036 and how that person responded when you just knocked on 0:04:29.076 --> 0:04:29.556 their door. 0:04:29.876 --> 0:04:31.636 Yeah, so you know, we basically were just looking them 0:04:31.716 --> 0:04:33.356 up on the white pages. Me and my co reporter 0:04:33.556 --> 0:04:37.156 show you who's not here in all the different China towns, 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:40.756 The three China towns in Manhattan and Queen's and Brooklyn. 0:04:41.556 --> 0:04:44.036 Each time we brought cookies because we were coming out 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:45.756 of nowhere, so we felt like we should not go 0:04:45.876 --> 0:04:49.396 empty handed. We knocked on the door. We left the 0:04:49.396 --> 0:04:53.236 cookies in a note, and no one ever responded to 0:04:53.276 --> 0:04:56.436 our notes. But one time we knocked on the door 0:04:56.676 --> 0:05:00.596 and the woman inside answered and I said right away, 0:05:00.676 --> 0:05:05.636 I'm here because I know Daryl Howell very closely. Could 0:05:05.676 --> 0:05:07.996 I talk to you for this story? And she invited 0:05:08.076 --> 0:05:08.596 us in. 0:05:08.716 --> 0:05:11.396 You're so disarming. I love to One of her. 0:05:11.396 --> 0:05:13.716 The roles she plays for me is when I'm scared 0:05:13.756 --> 0:05:16.516 about chasing someone down, and I don't think I think 0:05:16.516 --> 0:05:17.876 they're going to be mean to me if I get 0:05:17.876 --> 0:05:19.636 them on the phone, or they're not going to want 0:05:19.636 --> 0:05:22.436 to talk to me because they'll suspect evil intent. I 0:05:22.516 --> 0:05:26.476 send her instead, and she completely diffuses the situation. She 0:05:26.556 --> 0:05:30.356 shows up with their head on a spiked and and 0:05:30.476 --> 0:05:31.956 so I'd have thought I'm gonna. 0:05:31.716 --> 0:05:33.316 Get shot if I ring this doorbell. 0:05:33.396 --> 0:05:35.716 I mean, I mean, it's incredibly brave of you to 0:05:35.836 --> 0:05:37.036 kind of just hunt these people down. 0:05:37.996 --> 0:05:41.156 I mean, they all been in jail. And the story 0:05:41.236 --> 0:05:41.836 was in the past. 0:05:42.356 --> 0:05:46.836 I couldn't tell from the the podcast just how reluctant 0:05:46.876 --> 0:05:48.036 they were to talk about it. 0:05:48.316 --> 0:05:50.596 I mean, it's kind of crazy, right to show up. 0:05:51.076 --> 0:05:53.916 You've had the worst thing, you were prosecuted for this crime. 0:05:54.356 --> 0:05:56.956 Then the basically like daughter in law of the person 0:05:56.956 --> 0:05:59.796 who prosecuted you shows up and says, oh, can you 0:05:59.796 --> 0:06:00.916 tell me your side of the story? 0:06:01.236 --> 0:06:02.356 I really want to hear it. 0:06:02.436 --> 0:06:03.636 It'll do and it'll do. 0:06:03.636 --> 0:06:04.196 A lot of good. 0:06:04.276 --> 0:06:04.516 Now. 0:06:04.996 --> 0:06:10.876 Yeah, but when I you know, because it could go 0:06:11.036 --> 0:06:13.396 I could say, oh, I'm you know, Beryl is my 0:06:13.956 --> 0:06:15.796 almost mother in law, and she could be like, get 0:06:15.796 --> 0:06:18.636 out of here. But instead she was like, how's Beryl. 0:06:18.916 --> 0:06:21.076 I've been watching on TV that she's a judge and 0:06:21.116 --> 0:06:24.756 she retired. How is she doing? So that kind of 0:06:24.796 --> 0:06:25.436 made it easier. 0:06:25.596 --> 0:06:27.876 When I was listening to it, I thought you actually 0:06:27.956 --> 0:06:31.276 might have a runner here in that you could go 0:06:31.716 --> 0:06:36.436 to any older prosecutor and say, what's the case That 0:06:36.596 --> 0:06:38.836 kind of got in your head and you never got 0:06:38.836 --> 0:06:41.396 out of your head and you wonder what happened. 0:06:41.116 --> 0:06:41.596 To the people. 0:06:41.756 --> 0:06:44.476 Yes, because the relationship of the prosecutors to the people 0:06:44.516 --> 0:06:48.676 they're prosecuting is often so it's so warped and distant, 0:06:48.756 --> 0:06:52.596 and they've had such an effect on that person's life. 0:06:52.756 --> 0:06:53.436 You call me. 0:06:54.316 --> 0:06:56.396 When I called you, I was trying to pass you 0:06:56.436 --> 0:06:57.916 to help me with something else while you were doing 0:06:57.916 --> 0:07:01.036 your own show, and you said you blurted out. I said, 0:07:01.036 --> 0:07:03.356 how's it going, and you blurted out, it's so hard. 0:07:06.196 --> 0:07:10.516 And I was a little surprised. Doesn't sound listening to 0:07:10.556 --> 0:07:12.756 it, it doesn't sound like it was hard. It sounds like 0:07:12.756 --> 0:07:15.196 it came pretty naturally to you. What did you find 0:07:15.276 --> 0:07:18.916 difficult about actually being responsible for telling the story? 0:07:19.596 --> 0:07:23.396 I think I just really wanted to do justice to 0:07:23.476 --> 0:07:26.476 everyone in the story. I really wanted everyone you know, 0:07:26.556 --> 0:07:28.396 they went through the justice system, but I also wanted 0:07:28.396 --> 0:07:30.516 them to feel like they were treated fairly in the story. 0:07:30.916 --> 0:07:31.356 Are you not? 0:07:31.596 --> 0:07:34.276 But Michael, how do you feel? I mean not if 0:07:34.276 --> 0:07:36.596 someone asked you in the middle of writing The Big Short, 0:07:37.556 --> 0:07:39.476 you were you would never be like, oh, it's so hard. 0:07:39.556 --> 0:07:41.636 It was excellent promotional work for pushing. 0:07:42.436 --> 0:07:43.636 We have just dropped. 0:07:43.956 --> 0:07:46.476 We just dropped a re release of The Big Short 0:07:46.516 --> 0:07:47.716 audio book this week. 0:07:48.876 --> 0:07:50.596 Very well done. So what were you asking me? 0:07:51.476 --> 0:07:51.716 So? 0:07:51.796 --> 0:07:53.676 Yeah, I was saying, did you never feel like this 0:07:53.716 --> 0:07:54.316 is so hard. 0:07:55.116 --> 0:07:57.036 You know, I'm always a little worried that it's slow. 0:07:57.436 --> 0:08:01.836 But no, Actually the truth is that by the time 0:08:01.956 --> 0:08:05.396 I get excited enough to write something, I assume it's interesting. 0:08:05.436 --> 0:08:07.476 I'm excited because I'm interested, so I assume everybody else 0:08:07.476 --> 0:08:07.956 could be interested. 0:08:07.956 --> 0:08:10.716 Oh yeah, that part so fun. The reporting part is 0:08:10.756 --> 0:08:13.276 so fun. But then like finding the like you can 0:08:13.316 --> 0:08:15.236 say what the big short is about in one sentence, 0:08:15.756 --> 0:08:18.076 I can, yeah, and it's really easy for you. 0:08:18.316 --> 0:08:19.596 It takes a while to get there though. 0:08:19.676 --> 0:08:20.996 That part from me is really hard. 0:08:21.196 --> 0:08:22.996 So that I've just been doing this with the new book. 0:08:23.036 --> 0:08:25.356 I'm about to start writing it and and I just 0:08:25.396 --> 0:08:28.116 figured out last week what it was, and it was. 0:08:28.116 --> 0:08:30.116 Just like, Ah, that's it. That's it. 0:08:30.156 --> 0:08:32.076 That's the it's And you might never say it to 0:08:32.116 --> 0:08:34.436 the reader or the listener, but it's they got to 0:08:34.436 --> 0:08:36.356 be that structure has got to be the point of 0:08:36.356 --> 0:08:37.956 it's got to be there. So what's the one sentence 0:08:37.996 --> 0:08:41.196 about the podcast you came up with us? I'm curious, 0:08:41.196 --> 0:08:44.676 what's the sentence? It's not about majong. 0:08:45.436 --> 0:08:46.996 I mean, there's a lot of ma there's a lot 0:08:46.996 --> 0:08:47.876 of majong. 0:08:47.516 --> 0:08:49.676 In it, But do you do you remember what your 0:08:49.716 --> 0:08:51.236 one sentence was you told yourself. 0:08:51.516 --> 0:08:54.516 I mean, I think it's a story about three women 0:08:55.596 --> 0:08:59.156 who you know, who are opposed to each other and 0:08:59.436 --> 0:09:02.596 according to the system, only one of them can win, 0:09:03.356 --> 0:09:04.396 and how do they navigate that? 0:09:04.916 --> 0:09:05.556 Oh? 0:09:05.716 --> 0:09:06.396 Very well done. 0:09:06.516 --> 0:09:09.516 Yeah, your mother was about to collapse and then realize 0:09:09.516 --> 0:09:13.236 she's your mother and that she shouldn't lead a standing ovation. 0:09:17.116 --> 0:09:17.876 It's very good. 0:09:21.356 --> 0:09:23.396 Thank you, And I just gotta say I'm proud of you. 0:09:23.436 --> 0:09:25.876 I'm so proud of you. You did great and it's good. 0:09:25.876 --> 0:09:27.396 You're going to be doing this forever, and. 0:09:27.356 --> 0:09:29.116 I so appreciate you coming to Brooklyn. 0:09:31.836 --> 0:09:35.996 It's a mysterious land I've never been. The people are different. 0:09:37.156 --> 0:09:39.756 You seem to be able to communicate. I'm almost sure. 0:09:39.596 --> 0:09:42.556 They understand me, but I think I understand them. But 0:09:42.756 --> 0:09:50.396 I've got back to Manhattan as fast as possible, and 0:09:50.436 --> 0:09:53.516 now don't go anywhere. Coming up, we have an excerpt 0:09:53.516 --> 0:09:57.116 from the first episode of LJ show, The Chinatown Sting. 0:09:58.756 --> 0:10:02.396 On February ninth, nineteen eighty eight, David Shean was working 0:10:02.396 --> 0:10:05.876 his usual shift. He was a US customs agent at 0:10:05.956 --> 0:10:08.676 JFK report his phone rang. 0:10:10.996 --> 0:10:15.276 I was talked then through a customs agent in California. 0:10:15.876 --> 0:10:19.956 Who says, hey, well just got three shipments of heroin 0:10:20.716 --> 0:10:24.036 and three different bailed parcels. Do you guys want the case? 0:10:25.316 --> 0:10:27.356 So I said, absolutely, we'll take it. 0:10:28.636 --> 0:10:31.236 The parcels were on their way from Hong Kong to 0:10:31.316 --> 0:10:35.196 New York. Customs agents were looking inside packages more often 0:10:35.716 --> 0:10:39.116 ever since President Reagan in Congress had ramped up the 0:10:39.156 --> 0:10:42.916 war on drugs. David Shechan was part of this special 0:10:42.956 --> 0:10:46.956 task force to combat narcotic smuggling, so they got calls 0:10:46.956 --> 0:10:49.236 about drugs coming into New York City all the time. 0:10:50.476 --> 0:10:53.916 This call was special, though, because inside each of these 0:10:53.956 --> 0:11:00.236 packages was about seven million dollars worth of heroin. In 0:11:00.276 --> 0:11:05.756 today's money, that's something like eighteen million dollars per package. 0:11:06.356 --> 0:11:09.876 Peter Mattesser was an agent for the Drug Enforcement Administration. 0:11:10.716 --> 0:11:13.276 He really wanted to know who was waiting for those boxes. 0:11:14.956 --> 0:11:16.276 I knew it was going to be a big case 0:11:16.276 --> 0:11:18.956 because there was a lot of heroin and the focus 0:11:19.076 --> 0:11:21.356 was on China white heroin at the time, because a 0:11:21.396 --> 0:11:23.716 lot was coming into New York. A lot of heroin 0:11:23.796 --> 0:11:26.556 was coming in from China to Hong Kong then into 0:11:26.596 --> 0:11:31.436 New York, and it sounded like a good opportunity to 0:11:31.436 --> 0:11:32.196 work a big case. 0:11:33.796 --> 0:11:38.636 On February seventeenth, the boxes arrived at the airport. Peter 0:11:38.716 --> 0:11:40.916 and David knew they were at the beginning of something big, 0:11:41.516 --> 0:11:56.116 but they didn't know how big. My name is Lyddy 0:11:56.196 --> 0:11:59.756 jin Kot. As a journalist, I often report on law 0:11:59.836 --> 0:12:03.356 and power. I've written an audiobook about the Supreme Court, 0:12:03.676 --> 0:12:07.316 covered the federal trial of a crypto billionaire, and investigated 0:12:07.356 --> 0:12:11.276 the fallout of the legalization of sport's betting. I'm interested 0:12:11.316 --> 0:12:14.516 in how throughout American history we've used the law as 0:12:14.516 --> 0:12:17.556 a tool to make our country both more and less. 0:12:17.756 --> 0:12:21.356 Just a few years ago I came into possession of 0:12:21.356 --> 0:12:25.156 a suitcase. It was full of thousands of pages of 0:12:25.196 --> 0:12:28.676 court documents. They were all about a case a prosecutor 0:12:28.716 --> 0:12:32.196 spent years trying to build against a criminal who refused 0:12:32.196 --> 0:12:35.916 to be caught. There was mention of a criminal syndicate 0:12:36.276 --> 0:12:40.236 powerful enough to take on the Italian mafia, an attempted assassination, 0:12:40.956 --> 0:12:46.636 a global manhunt, congressional hearings, international press coverage, a standing 0:12:46.676 --> 0:12:49.716 room only trial. And none of it would have happened 0:12:49.756 --> 0:12:53.516 without a group of ordinary people, people who in time 0:12:53.756 --> 0:12:56.676 would have to make a decision about who to protect 0:12:57.436 --> 0:13:02.196 and who to betray. But that afternoon in nineteen eighty eight, 0:13:02.796 --> 0:13:05.556 one of these people was just waiting for a box. 0:13:10.276 --> 0:13:24.796 This is the Chinatown Staying Episode one. Lucky Bird. Court 0:13:24.876 --> 0:13:28.316 documents would later describe the exact contents of each box 0:13:28.356 --> 0:13:32.196 that landed in New York. Twenty small bricks made up 0:13:32.236 --> 0:13:35.436 of white compressed powder, wrapped up in either brown tape 0:13:35.636 --> 0:13:39.316 or duct tape. In one of the packages, the heroin 0:13:39.436 --> 0:13:42.116 was hidden inside these red and white tea boxes that 0:13:42.156 --> 0:13:45.396 had Chinese characters on them, and the other two the 0:13:45.436 --> 0:13:51.076 heroin was hidden among stuffed animals. Now Peter Mtesser and 0:13:51.156 --> 0:13:55.916 the DA could get to work. Step one, take out 0:13:55.916 --> 0:13:59.316 the heroin and replace it with decoy heroin. It was 0:13:59.356 --> 0:14:01.236 made out of wooden blocks, cut and. 0:14:01.196 --> 0:14:04.116 Tape together, except you leave a sample of the heroin 0:14:04.196 --> 0:14:09.516 in there. We'd put the stuffed animals back in. Our 0:14:09.716 --> 0:14:12.476 goal was to get someone opening up that box and 0:14:12.516 --> 0:14:14.036 going through it. That was our goal. 0:14:14.836 --> 0:14:17.476 So when someone on the receiving end looked inside the boxes, 0:14:17.516 --> 0:14:21.716 they should notice nothing weird. Step two, the Feds hit 0:14:21.836 --> 0:14:25.716 thin wires in a transmitter inside each box. Whoever was 0:14:25.756 --> 0:14:28.316 looking through the box would break the wires and that 0:14:28.396 --> 0:14:31.196 would trigger a silent electric signal that would be picked 0:14:31.236 --> 0:14:34.196 up by these special machines in the hands of law enforcement. 0:14:34.796 --> 0:14:36.956 And this receiver had only two signals. 0:14:37.436 --> 0:14:41.196 It was a slow beep you're listening in to like 0:14:41.236 --> 0:14:44.316 a computer almost and you hear the beat beat beeping in. 0:14:45.196 --> 0:14:47.956 When a rapid beep goes beppp beat, that means it's 0:14:47.956 --> 0:14:48.396 been open. 0:14:49.756 --> 0:14:52.516 The dagents set up their trap as fast as they could. 0:14:52.956 --> 0:14:54.756 They didn't want the people who were waiting for the 0:14:54.796 --> 0:14:56.556 packages to get suspicious. 0:14:57.316 --> 0:14:59.476 They know how long it takes from point A to 0:14:59.516 --> 0:15:01.556 point B, so as soon as you get a day 0:15:01.596 --> 0:15:06.876 or two late, you're investiation could be compromised. 0:15:08.076 --> 0:15:11.316 Step three. Each of these boxes had to be dropped 0:15:11.356 --> 0:15:14.236 off at exactly the same time they were to be 0:15:14.316 --> 0:15:18.596 delivered by postal inspectors who were working undercover. Vans full 0:15:18.636 --> 0:15:21.796 of agents were waiting nearby, listening in on their little 0:15:21.796 --> 0:15:23.956 computers and ready to spring into action. 0:15:24.636 --> 0:15:26.516 You have to cover all the different parts of the 0:15:26.556 --> 0:15:29.076 locations because if someone takes the box and runs out 0:15:29.116 --> 0:15:31.596 the door, then we have Heroin on the street. 0:15:33.796 --> 0:15:37.756 On February twenty third, the mail packages, the vans full 0:15:37.836 --> 0:15:41.556 of agents and the undercover postal workers. They were all 0:15:41.676 --> 0:15:45.036 ready to go. Two of the packages were addressed to 0:15:45.036 --> 0:15:49.156 Manhattan's Chinatown and one was going to Brooklyn. Peter and 0:15:49.236 --> 0:15:52.436 the customs agent David Shan followed the two packages that 0:15:52.476 --> 0:15:53.556 were going to Chinatown. 0:15:54.076 --> 0:15:58.636 The thrill of the chase really becomes just it sort 0:15:58.636 --> 0:15:59.436 of takes you over. 0:16:01.996 --> 0:16:05.196 That day, like on any other day, Chinatown was bustling. 0:16:06.196 --> 0:16:10.316 The sidewalks were crowded with vendors selling cucumbers, plants, buck joy, 0:16:10.756 --> 0:16:14.356 dried mushrooms. People were walking shoulder to shoulder on the 0:16:14.396 --> 0:16:18.156 main streets. There were neon signs everywhere saying go this 0:16:18.196 --> 0:16:21.396 way or go that way. And there was always a 0:16:21.436 --> 0:16:24.796 truck somewhere squeezing its way down these narrow streets full 0:16:24.796 --> 0:16:28.716 of fresh wares. That's all to say, Chinatown wasn't an 0:16:28.716 --> 0:16:32.076 easy place to find parking, especially not for a van 0:16:32.196 --> 0:16:35.396 full of non Asian undercover federal agents. 0:16:36.116 --> 0:16:39.636 We were underneath the highway in the hand these from 0:16:39.676 --> 0:16:43.276 the drive war, and that's where we had thirty agents 0:16:43.676 --> 0:16:47.396 all lined up ready to go with shotguns and rifles 0:16:47.396 --> 0:16:48.196 and un davy. 0:16:49.436 --> 0:16:52.876 There were two wired up packages addressed to two apartment 0:16:52.916 --> 0:16:56.276 buildings right next door to each other. So the undercover 0:16:56.396 --> 0:16:59.956 postal inspector buzzed at one address, and then he buzzed 0:16:59.956 --> 0:17:04.556 at the other. No answer. He left behind mail slips. 0:17:05.516 --> 0:17:07.996 Peter and David waited to see what would happen next, 0:17:08.796 --> 0:17:10.476 and waited some more. 0:17:12.196 --> 0:17:14.756 One of the guys from da he took a leak 0:17:14.956 --> 0:17:17.916 in the East River, and believe it or not, two 0:17:18.236 --> 0:17:21.396 sanitation police guys came up to him and said, hey, 0:17:22.756 --> 0:17:23.836 you can't pee in the river. 0:17:25.756 --> 0:17:28.196 David Shean could feel his hopes of catching anyone in 0:17:28.276 --> 0:17:32.516 Chinatown pissing away to Nobody was coming to collect the packages, 0:17:32.756 --> 0:17:35.076 even though their street value was supposed to be huge. 0:17:35.676 --> 0:17:39.756 Maybe someone had tipped them off. The whole operation now 0:17:39.876 --> 0:17:42.636 hinged on the third box, the one that was going 0:17:42.636 --> 0:17:43.196 to Brooklyn. 0:17:43.956 --> 0:17:45.076 We heard the beep go off. 0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:48.956 Peter Mattessa rushed over to the Brooklyn address to meet 0:17:48.956 --> 0:17:49.436 the agents. 0:17:49.476 --> 0:17:52.516 There. We knocked on the door or broke down the door. 0:17:52.556 --> 0:17:55.276 There's a package open. The stuffed animals were out. 0:17:55.716 --> 0:17:58.516 Peter found himself face to face with a thirty eight 0:17:58.556 --> 0:18:01.636 year old woman, a mother of two, an accountant at 0:18:01.636 --> 0:18:05.356 a bank. Peter explained she was under arrest. 0:18:07.236 --> 0:18:12.396 Read her rights you know in Cantonese, Amandarin. I forgot 0:18:12.396 --> 0:18:15.516 exactly which one it was. She was very upset, crying, 0:18:16.996 --> 0:18:21.076 and your goal is to try to calm the situation 0:18:21.156 --> 0:18:24.436 down as soon as you can and then hopefully move 0:18:24.516 --> 0:18:25.116 up the ladder. 0:18:27.836 --> 0:18:31.196 By move up the ladder, Peter means this woman might 0:18:31.236 --> 0:18:34.156 have information that would help the FEDS figure out who's 0:18:34.196 --> 0:18:37.276 in charge of importing the heroine. The first rung of 0:18:37.316 --> 0:18:41.196 the ladder was right here in this house. Peter needed 0:18:41.196 --> 0:18:44.396 to know the box's next destination, and to find that out, 0:18:44.756 --> 0:18:48.636 she needed this woman to act totally normal. She needed 0:18:48.676 --> 0:18:50.876 to call whoever she was going to call after the 0:18:50.916 --> 0:18:53.556 box's arrival. They needed her to go from being an 0:18:53.596 --> 0:18:56.756 accomplice to being a cooperating witness quickly. 0:18:57.556 --> 0:19:00.516 I tell her the a maund of Heroin here, you're 0:19:00.556 --> 0:19:03.396 facing ten years to life because it's so much Harowin. 0:19:04.356 --> 0:19:07.076 This is your time to help out yourself. We can't 0:19:07.116 --> 0:19:09.036 guarantee you how much jail time you do, but it'll 0:19:09.036 --> 0:19:12.996 be brought to the attention of the judges. Will know 0:19:13.116 --> 0:19:15.636 how much you've helped out in this case. And it's 0:19:15.636 --> 0:19:19.156 a courageous decision to make. We try to tell them 0:19:19.196 --> 0:19:22.196 we think it's the right one to make to help us, 0:19:22.676 --> 0:19:23.356 and we help you. 0:19:25.036 --> 0:19:27.316 But the person this woman was going to call was 0:19:27.356 --> 0:19:31.876 her friend. If she cooperated, that would mean betraying her friend. 0:19:32.476 --> 0:19:35.236 But if she didn't cooperate, she might not see her 0:19:35.236 --> 0:19:38.796 two children grow up. She had to make an impossible decision. 0:19:38.876 --> 0:19:43.436 As the agents hovered over her, the clock was ticking. 0:19:46.116 --> 0:19:48.476 This woman agreed to cooperate. Her name is in the 0:19:48.516 --> 0:19:51.116 court documents, but she never responded to her real quest 0:19:51.156 --> 0:19:54.476 for an interview. Anyway, her name's not that important to 0:19:54.516 --> 0:19:57.516 the story. What's important is the chain of events she 0:19:57.556 --> 0:20:00.356 set off by giving the federal agents the name of 0:20:00.356 --> 0:20:06.076 her contact. Over the next few days, agents were arresting 0:20:06.116 --> 0:20:08.476 moms like her all over in New York City. 0:20:09.316 --> 0:20:11.836 It was like the first time we've ever seen anything 0:20:11.956 --> 0:20:15.236 like that. Really, Basically, you're stay at home moms. We're 0:20:15.276 --> 0:20:19.796 picking up these lodge amounts at heroin, and I'm sure 0:20:19.836 --> 0:20:20.876 they knew it was drugs. 0:20:21.876 --> 0:20:24.116 It turned out that all of these women, women who 0:20:24.156 --> 0:20:27.236 received packages of heroin sent to their homes, onto each 0:20:27.276 --> 0:20:32.196 other from playing Mahjong Majong is a game of luck 0:20:32.276 --> 0:20:35.196 and skill. You play with domino like tiles instead of 0:20:35.236 --> 0:20:40.236 with cards. They have different designs on them, stones, bamboos, dragons, 0:20:40.756 --> 0:20:42.996 and the goal is to end up with four pairs 0:20:43.036 --> 0:20:46.356 of three tiles and one pair of two tiles. That's 0:20:46.396 --> 0:20:50.036 called the eyes. Different hands are with different amounts of points. 0:20:50.676 --> 0:20:54.076 There were Majong parlors all over Chinatown. These are places 0:20:54.076 --> 0:20:56.036 where people could play for a bit of money or 0:20:56.076 --> 0:20:58.916 a lot of money. The parlors were a place to 0:20:58.956 --> 0:21:02.276 catch up with old friends and make new ones. But 0:21:02.396 --> 0:21:06.196 now many of these friends were under arrest and they 0:21:06.196 --> 0:21:11.556 were being forced to turn on one another. Customs agent 0:21:11.636 --> 0:21:14.276 David Shean was doing a lot of that forcing. 0:21:14.916 --> 0:21:17.836 We're going to seize all your assets, we're gonna take 0:21:17.876 --> 0:21:19.836 all your kids away from you, and you're going to 0:21:19.916 --> 0:21:22.876