1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:15,836 Speaker 1: Push Kim. 2 00:00:19,436 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 2: Hey there, it's Michael Lewis here with a special episode. 3 00:00:22,956 --> 00:00:25,476 Speaker 2: While she's been working on this show, my producer, Lydia 4 00:00:25,556 --> 00:00:28,156 Speaker 2: jen Kott has also been working on a new show 5 00:00:28,196 --> 00:00:31,996 Speaker 2: of her own. It's called The Chinatown Sting and it's 6 00:00:31,996 --> 00:00:35,276 Speaker 2: an international crime saga that takes place in the late. 7 00:00:35,116 --> 00:00:36,796 Speaker 3: Eighties and early nineteen nineties. 8 00:00:38,436 --> 00:00:40,916 Speaker 2: Earlier this week, I talked with LJ about The Chinatown 9 00:00:40,996 --> 00:00:43,796 Speaker 2: Sting at an event at a coffee shop in Brooklyn 10 00:00:44,076 --> 00:00:47,476 Speaker 2: called Land to Sea. That's a place that hosts monthly 11 00:00:47,556 --> 00:00:50,556 Speaker 2: Majong Nights, a game that's a little bit like Domino's 12 00:00:50,596 --> 00:00:55,436 Speaker 2: and relevant to her show. Here's our conversation and then 13 00:00:55,476 --> 00:00:58,916 Speaker 2: we'll hear part of the first episode. I hope you'll 14 00:00:58,956 --> 00:01:02,996 Speaker 2: go subscribe to The Chinatown Sting. All six episodes are 15 00:01:02,996 --> 00:01:10,836 Speaker 2: out now and it's a great listenin. 16 00:01:11,596 --> 00:01:15,516 Speaker 3: So why don't we start? But I want you to 17 00:01:15,556 --> 00:01:18,276 Speaker 3: just explain. You have to tell the whole story because 18 00:01:18,276 --> 00:01:19,556 Speaker 3: you don't want to ruin that way. 19 00:01:19,796 --> 00:01:24,396 Speaker 2: But how you stumbled into the story like this, how 20 00:01:24,436 --> 00:01:26,516 Speaker 2: you got this material because the material. 21 00:01:26,196 --> 00:01:30,956 Speaker 1: Is great, Okay, So the story is kind of I 22 00:01:30,956 --> 00:01:34,796 Speaker 1: would say, a family legend of sorts. My partner's mom, 23 00:01:34,916 --> 00:01:37,036 Speaker 1: who I've known ever since I was little. She's a 24 00:01:37,036 --> 00:01:37,996 Speaker 1: federal judge. 25 00:01:37,716 --> 00:01:41,276 Speaker 3: In Washington, DC, Beryl Howell. Beryl Howell, who I have 26 00:01:41,436 --> 00:01:42,236 Speaker 3: met separately. 27 00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:45,796 Speaker 2: I spoke to this court, the district court, all the judges, 28 00:01:46,036 --> 00:01:49,196 Speaker 2: and she's an impressive character, a little scary actually. 29 00:01:48,996 --> 00:01:49,636 Speaker 1: A little scary. 30 00:01:49,836 --> 00:01:50,396 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. 31 00:01:51,676 --> 00:01:55,676 Speaker 1: And this is the story of her first case. So 32 00:01:55,716 --> 00:01:58,796 Speaker 1: it's a case that she talked about a lot because 33 00:01:59,076 --> 00:02:00,916 Speaker 1: the people in it really made an impression on her. 34 00:02:01,356 --> 00:02:03,196 Speaker 1: And I always kind of wanted to know more about 35 00:02:03,196 --> 00:02:04,716 Speaker 1: this case and do a story about it, but I 36 00:02:04,716 --> 00:02:07,596 Speaker 1: didn't think that would be an option because federal judges 37 00:02:07,636 --> 00:02:11,436 Speaker 1: don't usually give interviews or talked to the media. But 38 00:02:11,756 --> 00:02:13,876 Speaker 1: after knowing her for years and years and years, I 39 00:02:13,876 --> 00:02:17,396 Speaker 1: finally just asked, and she said, sure, and tell us. 40 00:02:17,316 --> 00:02:19,596 Speaker 3: Such a little bit about the story, because we have 41 00:02:19,636 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 3: to explain why we're playing my gens. 42 00:02:21,636 --> 00:02:21,796 Speaker 1: Yes. 43 00:02:21,916 --> 00:02:22,996 Speaker 3: Right. 44 00:02:23,036 --> 00:02:26,916 Speaker 1: So there's a young federal prosecutor, Beryl Howell, just a 45 00:02:26,956 --> 00:02:29,716 Speaker 1: few weeks on the job. She has a group of 46 00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:33,716 Speaker 1: all these women who are in custody. They've all been 47 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:38,716 Speaker 1: caught accepting boxes in the mail boxes that have stuffed 48 00:02:38,716 --> 00:02:43,436 Speaker 1: animals in them, and tea and also millions of dollars 49 00:02:43,476 --> 00:02:46,676 Speaker 1: worth of heroin. A lot of them have young kids, 50 00:02:47,116 --> 00:02:49,956 Speaker 1: and she needs to find out why they why they 51 00:02:50,036 --> 00:02:53,396 Speaker 1: did this, and who they're working for. And they're not talking. 52 00:02:54,316 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 1: But the one thing that is connecting them all is 53 00:02:57,236 --> 00:03:00,676 Speaker 1: that they were playing Majong together in Manhattan's Chinatown, because 54 00:03:00,716 --> 00:03:02,876 Speaker 1: this is happened in the nineteen eighties, and at the 55 00:03:02,916 --> 00:03:06,316 Speaker 1: time in Chinatown there were all these like Majong parlors, 56 00:03:06,316 --> 00:03:08,356 Speaker 1: which are kind of like speakeasies where you could play 57 00:03:08,396 --> 00:03:08,876 Speaker 1: the game. 58 00:03:09,236 --> 00:03:13,836 Speaker 3: Your boyfriend's mom. Yes, So, I mean, it's interesting. 59 00:03:14,276 --> 00:03:18,676 Speaker 2: A prosecutor has this huge effect on people's lives, mainly 60 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:20,996 Speaker 2: ends badly for the people who are being prosecuted if 61 00:03:20,996 --> 00:03:23,676 Speaker 2: it's a federal prosecution, right, the numbers are just shocking. 62 00:03:23,676 --> 00:03:25,996 Speaker 2: Everybody everybody goes to jail or pleads a guilty kind 63 00:03:26,036 --> 00:03:29,276 Speaker 2: of thing. And I've always wondered, partly because I watched 64 00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:32,196 Speaker 2: this now recently with Sam Bagman Freed, how interest did 65 00:03:32,196 --> 00:03:35,716 Speaker 2: the prosecutors stay in these in the lives of the 66 00:03:35,716 --> 00:03:38,876 Speaker 2: people who you know are in their review mirror. Did 67 00:03:38,956 --> 00:03:42,556 Speaker 2: you have the impression that Barrel was especially interested in 68 00:03:42,876 --> 00:03:45,276 Speaker 2: like the people here or was it just the case 69 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:45,916 Speaker 2: was so weird? 70 00:03:46,436 --> 00:03:47,796 Speaker 1: It was the people. I don't think it was that 71 00:03:47,836 --> 00:03:49,596 Speaker 1: the case was so weird. I think it was the people. 72 00:03:50,196 --> 00:03:52,116 Speaker 2: Did you have the impression that she had she knew 73 00:03:52,116 --> 00:03:53,796 Speaker 2: something about what had happened to them? 74 00:03:54,076 --> 00:03:56,276 Speaker 3: Did you find yourself telling her things that she didn't know? 75 00:03:56,396 --> 00:03:57,996 Speaker 1: She had no idea what happened to them? I think 76 00:03:57,996 --> 00:03:59,836 Speaker 1: it was insane that she thought that I would be 77 00:03:59,876 --> 00:04:00,636 Speaker 1: able to find them. 78 00:04:00,836 --> 00:04:03,796 Speaker 3: Oh all right, Like at. 79 00:04:03,676 --> 00:04:05,596 Speaker 1: Times I was mad at her for being like, oh, 80 00:04:05,636 --> 00:04:07,076 Speaker 1: you should do this, because I was like, do you 81 00:04:07,156 --> 00:04:09,756 Speaker 1: realize the chances of me being able to find these people? 82 00:04:09,836 --> 00:04:12,076 Speaker 1: And then why would they agree to talk to me? 83 00:04:12,196 --> 00:04:13,636 Speaker 1: Like she had no idea at all. 84 00:04:13,716 --> 00:04:15,676 Speaker 2: So, just there are a bunch of There are a 85 00:04:15,716 --> 00:04:17,996 Speaker 2: bunch of characters, and there are these very kind of 86 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:20,116 Speaker 2: awkward conversations on people's doorsteps. 87 00:04:20,436 --> 00:04:23,476 Speaker 3: In your podcast, just tell us the story of. 88 00:04:23,836 --> 00:04:26,556 Speaker 2: Finding one of the characters and what that was like 89 00:04:26,636 --> 00:04:29,036 Speaker 2: and how that person responded when you just knocked on 90 00:04:29,076 --> 00:04:29,556 Speaker 2: their door. 91 00:04:29,876 --> 00:04:31,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, we basically were just looking them 92 00:04:31,716 --> 00:04:33,356 Speaker 1: up on the white pages. Me and my co reporter 93 00:04:33,556 --> 00:04:37,156 Speaker 1: show you who's not here in all the different China towns, 94 00:04:37,156 --> 00:04:40,756 Speaker 1: The three China towns in Manhattan and Queen's and Brooklyn. 95 00:04:41,556 --> 00:04:44,036 Speaker 1: Each time we brought cookies because we were coming out 96 00:04:44,036 --> 00:04:45,756 Speaker 1: of nowhere, so we felt like we should not go 97 00:04:45,876 --> 00:04:49,396 Speaker 1: empty handed. We knocked on the door. We left the 98 00:04:49,396 --> 00:04:53,236 Speaker 1: cookies in a note, and no one ever responded to 99 00:04:53,276 --> 00:04:56,436 Speaker 1: our notes. But one time we knocked on the door 100 00:04:56,676 --> 00:05:00,596 Speaker 1: and the woman inside answered and I said right away, 101 00:05:00,676 --> 00:05:05,636 Speaker 1: I'm here because I know Daryl Howell very closely. Could 102 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:07,996 Speaker 1: I talk to you for this story? And she invited 103 00:05:08,076 --> 00:05:08,596 Speaker 1: us in. 104 00:05:08,716 --> 00:05:11,396 Speaker 3: You're so disarming. I love to One of her. 105 00:05:11,396 --> 00:05:13,716 Speaker 2: The roles she plays for me is when I'm scared 106 00:05:13,756 --> 00:05:16,516 Speaker 2: about chasing someone down, and I don't think I think 107 00:05:16,516 --> 00:05:17,876 Speaker 2: they're going to be mean to me if I get 108 00:05:17,876 --> 00:05:19,636 Speaker 2: them on the phone, or they're not going to want 109 00:05:19,636 --> 00:05:22,436 Speaker 2: to talk to me because they'll suspect evil intent. I 110 00:05:22,516 --> 00:05:26,476 Speaker 2: send her instead, and she completely diffuses the situation. She 111 00:05:26,556 --> 00:05:30,356 Speaker 2: shows up with their head on a spiked and and 112 00:05:30,476 --> 00:05:31,956 Speaker 2: so I'd have thought I'm gonna. 113 00:05:31,716 --> 00:05:33,316 Speaker 3: Get shot if I ring this doorbell. 114 00:05:33,396 --> 00:05:35,716 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, it's incredibly brave of you to 115 00:05:35,836 --> 00:05:37,036 Speaker 2: kind of just hunt these people down. 116 00:05:37,996 --> 00:05:41,156 Speaker 3: I mean, they all been in jail. And the story 117 00:05:41,236 --> 00:05:41,836 Speaker 3: was in the past. 118 00:05:42,356 --> 00:05:46,836 Speaker 2: I couldn't tell from the the podcast just how reluctant 119 00:05:46,876 --> 00:05:48,036 Speaker 2: they were to talk about it. 120 00:05:48,316 --> 00:05:50,596 Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of crazy, right to show up. 121 00:05:51,076 --> 00:05:53,916 Speaker 1: You've had the worst thing, you were prosecuted for this crime. 122 00:05:54,356 --> 00:05:56,956 Speaker 1: Then the basically like daughter in law of the person 123 00:05:56,956 --> 00:05:59,796 Speaker 1: who prosecuted you shows up and says, oh, can you 124 00:05:59,796 --> 00:06:00,916 Speaker 1: tell me your side of the story? 125 00:06:01,236 --> 00:06:02,356 Speaker 3: I really want to hear it. 126 00:06:02,436 --> 00:06:03,636 Speaker 4: It'll do and it'll do. 127 00:06:03,636 --> 00:06:04,196 Speaker 3: A lot of good. 128 00:06:04,276 --> 00:06:04,516 Speaker 5: Now. 129 00:06:04,996 --> 00:06:10,876 Speaker 1: Yeah, but when I you know, because it could go 130 00:06:11,036 --> 00:06:13,396 Speaker 1: I could say, oh, I'm you know, Beryl is my 131 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:15,796 Speaker 1: almost mother in law, and she could be like, get 132 00:06:15,796 --> 00:06:18,636 Speaker 1: out of here. But instead she was like, how's Beryl. 133 00:06:18,916 --> 00:06:21,076 Speaker 1: I've been watching on TV that she's a judge and 134 00:06:21,116 --> 00:06:24,756 Speaker 1: she retired. How is she doing? So that kind of 135 00:06:24,796 --> 00:06:25,436 Speaker 1: made it easier. 136 00:06:25,596 --> 00:06:27,876 Speaker 2: When I was listening to it, I thought you actually 137 00:06:27,956 --> 00:06:31,276 Speaker 2: might have a runner here in that you could go 138 00:06:31,716 --> 00:06:36,436 Speaker 2: to any older prosecutor and say, what's the case That 139 00:06:36,596 --> 00:06:38,836 Speaker 2: kind of got in your head and you never got 140 00:06:38,836 --> 00:06:41,396 Speaker 2: out of your head and you wonder what happened. 141 00:06:41,116 --> 00:06:41,596 Speaker 4: To the people. 142 00:06:41,756 --> 00:06:44,476 Speaker 2: Yes, because the relationship of the prosecutors to the people 143 00:06:44,516 --> 00:06:48,676 Speaker 2: they're prosecuting is often so it's so warped and distant, 144 00:06:48,756 --> 00:06:52,596 Speaker 2: and they've had such an effect on that person's life. 145 00:06:52,756 --> 00:06:53,436 Speaker 4: You call me. 146 00:06:54,316 --> 00:06:56,396 Speaker 2: When I called you, I was trying to pass you 147 00:06:56,436 --> 00:06:57,916 Speaker 2: to help me with something else while you were doing 148 00:06:57,916 --> 00:07:01,036 Speaker 2: your own show, and you said you blurted out. I said, 149 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:03,356 Speaker 2: how's it going, and you blurted out, it's so hard. 150 00:07:06,196 --> 00:07:10,516 Speaker 2: And I was a little surprised. Doesn't sound listening to 151 00:07:10,556 --> 00:07:12,756 Speaker 2: it, it doesn't sound like it was hard. It sounds like 152 00:07:12,756 --> 00:07:15,196 Speaker 2: it came pretty naturally to you. What did you find 153 00:07:15,276 --> 00:07:18,916 Speaker 2: difficult about actually being responsible for telling the story? 154 00:07:19,596 --> 00:07:23,396 Speaker 1: I think I just really wanted to do justice to 155 00:07:23,476 --> 00:07:26,476 Speaker 1: everyone in the story. I really wanted everyone you know, 156 00:07:26,556 --> 00:07:28,396 Speaker 1: they went through the justice system, but I also wanted 157 00:07:28,396 --> 00:07:30,516 Speaker 1: them to feel like they were treated fairly in the story. 158 00:07:30,916 --> 00:07:31,356 Speaker 2: Are you not? 159 00:07:31,596 --> 00:07:34,276 Speaker 1: But Michael, how do you feel? I mean not if 160 00:07:34,276 --> 00:07:36,596 Speaker 1: someone asked you in the middle of writing The Big Short, 161 00:07:37,556 --> 00:07:39,476 Speaker 1: you were you would never be like, oh, it's so hard. 162 00:07:39,556 --> 00:07:41,636 Speaker 3: It was excellent promotional work for pushing. 163 00:07:42,436 --> 00:07:43,636 Speaker 4: We have just dropped. 164 00:07:43,956 --> 00:07:46,476 Speaker 2: We just dropped a re release of The Big Short 165 00:07:46,516 --> 00:07:47,716 Speaker 2: audio book this week. 166 00:07:48,876 --> 00:07:50,596 Speaker 3: Very well done. So what were you asking me? 167 00:07:51,476 --> 00:07:51,716 Speaker 6: So? 168 00:07:51,796 --> 00:07:53,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was saying, did you never feel like this 169 00:07:53,716 --> 00:07:54,316 Speaker 1: is so hard. 170 00:07:55,116 --> 00:07:57,036 Speaker 3: You know, I'm always a little worried that it's slow. 171 00:07:57,436 --> 00:08:01,836 Speaker 2: But no, Actually the truth is that by the time 172 00:08:01,956 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 2: I get excited enough to write something, I assume it's interesting. 173 00:08:05,436 --> 00:08:07,476 Speaker 2: I'm excited because I'm interested, so I assume everybody else 174 00:08:07,476 --> 00:08:07,956 Speaker 2: could be interested. 175 00:08:07,956 --> 00:08:10,716 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that part so fun. The reporting part is 176 00:08:10,756 --> 00:08:13,276 Speaker 1: so fun. But then like finding the like you can 177 00:08:13,316 --> 00:08:15,236 Speaker 1: say what the big short is about in one sentence, 178 00:08:15,756 --> 00:08:18,076 Speaker 1: I can, yeah, and it's really easy for you. 179 00:08:18,316 --> 00:08:19,596 Speaker 4: It takes a while to get there though. 180 00:08:19,676 --> 00:08:20,996 Speaker 1: That part from me is really hard. 181 00:08:21,196 --> 00:08:22,996 Speaker 3: So that I've just been doing this with the new book. 182 00:08:23,036 --> 00:08:25,356 Speaker 2: I'm about to start writing it and and I just 183 00:08:25,396 --> 00:08:28,116 Speaker 2: figured out last week what it was, and it was. 184 00:08:28,116 --> 00:08:30,116 Speaker 4: Just like, Ah, that's it. That's it. 185 00:08:30,156 --> 00:08:32,076 Speaker 2: That's the it's And you might never say it to 186 00:08:32,116 --> 00:08:34,436 Speaker 2: the reader or the listener, but it's they got to 187 00:08:34,436 --> 00:08:36,356 Speaker 2: be that structure has got to be the point of 188 00:08:36,356 --> 00:08:37,956 Speaker 2: it's got to be there. So what's the one sentence 189 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:41,196 Speaker 2: about the podcast you came up with us? I'm curious, 190 00:08:41,196 --> 00:08:44,676 Speaker 2: what's the sentence? It's not about majong. 191 00:08:45,436 --> 00:08:46,996 Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of ma there's a lot 192 00:08:46,996 --> 00:08:47,876 Speaker 3: of majong. 193 00:08:47,516 --> 00:08:49,676 Speaker 2: In it, But do you do you remember what your 194 00:08:49,716 --> 00:08:51,236 Speaker 2: one sentence was you told yourself. 195 00:08:51,516 --> 00:08:54,516 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a story about three women 196 00:08:55,596 --> 00:08:59,156 Speaker 1: who you know, who are opposed to each other and 197 00:08:59,436 --> 00:09:02,596 Speaker 1: according to the system, only one of them can win, 198 00:09:03,356 --> 00:09:04,396 Speaker 1: and how do they navigate that? 199 00:09:04,916 --> 00:09:05,556 Speaker 4: Oh? 200 00:09:05,716 --> 00:09:06,396 Speaker 3: Very well done. 201 00:09:06,516 --> 00:09:09,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, your mother was about to collapse and then realize 202 00:09:09,516 --> 00:09:13,236 Speaker 2: she's your mother and that she shouldn't lead a standing ovation. 203 00:09:17,116 --> 00:09:17,876 Speaker 3: It's very good. 204 00:09:21,356 --> 00:09:23,396 Speaker 2: Thank you, And I just gotta say I'm proud of you. 205 00:09:23,436 --> 00:09:25,876 Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you. You did great and it's good. 206 00:09:25,876 --> 00:09:27,396 Speaker 2: You're going to be doing this forever, and. 207 00:09:27,356 --> 00:09:29,116 Speaker 1: I so appreciate you coming to Brooklyn. 208 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:35,996 Speaker 3: It's a mysterious land I've never been. The people are different. 209 00:09:37,156 --> 00:09:39,756 Speaker 3: You seem to be able to communicate. I'm almost sure. 210 00:09:39,596 --> 00:09:42,556 Speaker 2: They understand me, but I think I understand them. But 211 00:09:42,756 --> 00:09:50,396 Speaker 2: I've got back to Manhattan as fast as possible, and 212 00:09:50,436 --> 00:09:53,516 Speaker 2: now don't go anywhere. Coming up, we have an excerpt 213 00:09:53,516 --> 00:09:57,116 Speaker 2: from the first episode of LJ show, The Chinatown Sting. 214 00:09:58,756 --> 00:10:02,396 Speaker 1: On February ninth, nineteen eighty eight, David Shean was working 215 00:10:02,396 --> 00:10:05,876 Speaker 1: his usual shift. He was a US customs agent at 216 00:10:05,956 --> 00:10:08,676 Speaker 1: JFK report his phone rang. 217 00:10:10,996 --> 00:10:15,276 Speaker 6: I was talked then through a customs agent in California. 218 00:10:15,876 --> 00:10:19,956 Speaker 6: Who says, hey, well just got three shipments of heroin 219 00:10:20,716 --> 00:10:24,036 Speaker 6: and three different bailed parcels. Do you guys want the case? 220 00:10:25,316 --> 00:10:27,356 Speaker 6: So I said, absolutely, we'll take it. 221 00:10:28,636 --> 00:10:31,236 Speaker 1: The parcels were on their way from Hong Kong to 222 00:10:31,316 --> 00:10:35,196 Speaker 1: New York. Customs agents were looking inside packages more often 223 00:10:35,716 --> 00:10:39,116 Speaker 1: ever since President Reagan in Congress had ramped up the 224 00:10:39,156 --> 00:10:42,916 Speaker 1: war on drugs. David Shechan was part of this special 225 00:10:42,956 --> 00:10:46,956 Speaker 1: task force to combat narcotic smuggling, so they got calls 226 00:10:46,956 --> 00:10:49,236 Speaker 1: about drugs coming into New York City all the time. 227 00:10:50,476 --> 00:10:53,916 Speaker 1: This call was special, though, because inside each of these 228 00:10:53,956 --> 00:11:00,236 Speaker 1: packages was about seven million dollars worth of heroin. In 229 00:11:00,276 --> 00:11:05,756 Speaker 1: today's money, that's something like eighteen million dollars per package. 230 00:11:06,356 --> 00:11:09,876 Speaker 1: Peter Mattesser was an agent for the Drug Enforcement Administration. 231 00:11:10,716 --> 00:11:13,276 Speaker 1: He really wanted to know who was waiting for those boxes. 232 00:11:14,956 --> 00:11:16,276 Speaker 4: I knew it was going to be a big case 233 00:11:16,276 --> 00:11:18,956 Speaker 4: because there was a lot of heroin and the focus 234 00:11:19,076 --> 00:11:21,356 Speaker 4: was on China white heroin at the time, because a 235 00:11:21,396 --> 00:11:23,716 Speaker 4: lot was coming into New York. A lot of heroin 236 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:26,556 Speaker 4: was coming in from China to Hong Kong then into 237 00:11:26,596 --> 00:11:31,436 Speaker 4: New York, and it sounded like a good opportunity to 238 00:11:31,436 --> 00:11:32,196 Speaker 4: work a big case. 239 00:11:33,796 --> 00:11:38,636 Speaker 1: On February seventeenth, the boxes arrived at the airport. Peter 240 00:11:38,716 --> 00:11:40,916 Speaker 1: and David knew they were at the beginning of something big, 241 00:11:41,516 --> 00:11:56,116 Speaker 1: but they didn't know how big. My name is Lyddy 242 00:11:56,196 --> 00:11:59,756 Speaker 1: jin Kot. As a journalist, I often report on law 243 00:11:59,836 --> 00:12:03,356 Speaker 1: and power. I've written an audiobook about the Supreme Court, 244 00:12:03,676 --> 00:12:07,316 Speaker 1: covered the federal trial of a crypto billionaire, and investigated 245 00:12:07,356 --> 00:12:11,276 Speaker 1: the fallout of the legalization of sport's betting. I'm interested 246 00:12:11,316 --> 00:12:14,516 Speaker 1: in how throughout American history we've used the law as 247 00:12:14,516 --> 00:12:17,556 Speaker 1: a tool to make our country both more and less. 248 00:12:17,756 --> 00:12:21,356 Speaker 1: Just a few years ago I came into possession of 249 00:12:21,356 --> 00:12:25,156 Speaker 1: a suitcase. It was full of thousands of pages of 250 00:12:25,196 --> 00:12:28,676 Speaker 1: court documents. They were all about a case a prosecutor 251 00:12:28,716 --> 00:12:32,196 Speaker 1: spent years trying to build against a criminal who refused 252 00:12:32,196 --> 00:12:35,916 Speaker 1: to be caught. There was mention of a criminal syndicate 253 00:12:36,276 --> 00:12:40,236 Speaker 1: powerful enough to take on the Italian mafia, an attempted assassination, 254 00:12:40,956 --> 00:12:46,636 Speaker 1: a global manhunt, congressional hearings, international press coverage, a standing 255 00:12:46,676 --> 00:12:49,716 Speaker 1: room only trial. And none of it would have happened 256 00:12:49,756 --> 00:12:53,516 Speaker 1: without a group of ordinary people, people who in time 257 00:12:53,756 --> 00:12:56,676 Speaker 1: would have to make a decision about who to protect 258 00:12:57,436 --> 00:13:02,196 Speaker 1: and who to betray. But that afternoon in nineteen eighty eight, 259 00:13:02,796 --> 00:13:05,556 Speaker 1: one of these people was just waiting for a box. 260 00:13:10,276 --> 00:13:24,796 Speaker 1: This is the Chinatown Staying Episode one. Lucky Bird. Court 261 00:13:24,876 --> 00:13:28,316 Speaker 1: documents would later describe the exact contents of each box 262 00:13:28,356 --> 00:13:32,196 Speaker 1: that landed in New York. Twenty small bricks made up 263 00:13:32,236 --> 00:13:35,436 Speaker 1: of white compressed powder, wrapped up in either brown tape 264 00:13:35,636 --> 00:13:39,316 Speaker 1: or duct tape. In one of the packages, the heroin 265 00:13:39,436 --> 00:13:42,116 Speaker 1: was hidden inside these red and white tea boxes that 266 00:13:42,156 --> 00:13:45,396 Speaker 1: had Chinese characters on them, and the other two the 267 00:13:45,436 --> 00:13:51,076 Speaker 1: heroin was hidden among stuffed animals. Now Peter Mtesser and 268 00:13:51,156 --> 00:13:55,916 Speaker 1: the DA could get to work. Step one, take out 269 00:13:55,916 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 1: the heroin and replace it with decoy heroin. It was 270 00:13:59,356 --> 00:14:01,236 Speaker 1: made out of wooden blocks, cut and. 271 00:14:01,196 --> 00:14:04,116 Speaker 4: Tape together, except you leave a sample of the heroin 272 00:14:04,196 --> 00:14:09,516 Speaker 4: in there. We'd put the stuffed animals back in. Our 273 00:14:09,716 --> 00:14:12,476 Speaker 4: goal was to get someone opening up that box and 274 00:14:12,516 --> 00:14:14,036 Speaker 4: going through it. That was our goal. 275 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:17,476 Speaker 1: So when someone on the receiving end looked inside the boxes, 276 00:14:17,516 --> 00:14:21,716 Speaker 1: they should notice nothing weird. Step two, the Feds hit 277 00:14:21,836 --> 00:14:25,716 Speaker 1: thin wires in a transmitter inside each box. Whoever was 278 00:14:25,756 --> 00:14:28,316 Speaker 1: looking through the box would break the wires and that 279 00:14:28,396 --> 00:14:31,196 Speaker 1: would trigger a silent electric signal that would be picked 280 00:14:31,236 --> 00:14:34,196 Speaker 1: up by these special machines in the hands of law enforcement. 281 00:14:34,796 --> 00:14:36,956 Speaker 1: And this receiver had only two signals. 282 00:14:37,436 --> 00:14:41,196 Speaker 4: It was a slow beep you're listening in to like 283 00:14:41,236 --> 00:14:44,316 Speaker 4: a computer almost and you hear the beat beat beeping in. 284 00:14:45,196 --> 00:14:47,956 Speaker 4: When a rapid beep goes beppp beat, that means it's 285 00:14:47,956 --> 00:14:48,396 Speaker 4: been open. 286 00:14:49,756 --> 00:14:52,516 Speaker 1: The dagents set up their trap as fast as they could. 287 00:14:52,956 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 1: They didn't want the people who were waiting for the 288 00:14:54,796 --> 00:14:56,556 Speaker 1: packages to get suspicious. 289 00:14:57,316 --> 00:14:59,476 Speaker 4: They know how long it takes from point A to 290 00:14:59,516 --> 00:15:01,556 Speaker 4: point B, so as soon as you get a day 291 00:15:01,596 --> 00:15:06,876 Speaker 4: or two late, you're investiation could be compromised. 292 00:15:08,076 --> 00:15:11,316 Speaker 1: Step three. Each of these boxes had to be dropped 293 00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:14,236 Speaker 1: off at exactly the same time they were to be 294 00:15:14,316 --> 00:15:18,596 Speaker 1: delivered by postal inspectors who were working undercover. Vans full 295 00:15:18,636 --> 00:15:21,796 Speaker 1: of agents were waiting nearby, listening in on their little 296 00:15:21,796 --> 00:15:23,956 Speaker 1: computers and ready to spring into action. 297 00:15:24,636 --> 00:15:26,516 Speaker 4: You have to cover all the different parts of the 298 00:15:26,556 --> 00:15:29,076 Speaker 4: locations because if someone takes the box and runs out 299 00:15:29,116 --> 00:15:31,596 Speaker 4: the door, then we have Heroin on the street. 300 00:15:33,796 --> 00:15:37,756 Speaker 1: On February twenty third, the mail packages, the vans full 301 00:15:37,836 --> 00:15:41,556 Speaker 1: of agents and the undercover postal workers. They were all 302 00:15:41,676 --> 00:15:45,036 Speaker 1: ready to go. Two of the packages were addressed to 303 00:15:45,036 --> 00:15:49,156 Speaker 1: Manhattan's Chinatown and one was going to Brooklyn. Peter and 304 00:15:49,236 --> 00:15:52,436 Speaker 1: the customs agent David Shan followed the two packages that 305 00:15:52,476 --> 00:15:53,556 Speaker 1: were going to Chinatown. 306 00:15:54,076 --> 00:15:58,636 Speaker 4: The thrill of the chase really becomes just it sort 307 00:15:58,636 --> 00:15:59,436 Speaker 4: of takes you over. 308 00:16:01,996 --> 00:16:05,196 Speaker 1: That day, like on any other day, Chinatown was bustling. 309 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:10,316 Speaker 1: The sidewalks were crowded with vendors selling cucumbers, plants, buck joy, 310 00:16:10,756 --> 00:16:14,356 Speaker 1: dried mushrooms. People were walking shoulder to shoulder on the 311 00:16:14,396 --> 00:16:18,156 Speaker 1: main streets. There were neon signs everywhere saying go this 312 00:16:18,196 --> 00:16:21,396 Speaker 1: way or go that way. And there was always a 313 00:16:21,436 --> 00:16:24,796 Speaker 1: truck somewhere squeezing its way down these narrow streets full 314 00:16:24,796 --> 00:16:28,716 Speaker 1: of fresh wares. That's all to say, Chinatown wasn't an 315 00:16:28,716 --> 00:16:32,076 Speaker 1: easy place to find parking, especially not for a van 316 00:16:32,196 --> 00:16:35,396 Speaker 1: full of non Asian undercover federal agents. 317 00:16:36,116 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 6: We were underneath the highway in the hand these from 318 00:16:39,676 --> 00:16:43,276 Speaker 6: the drive war, and that's where we had thirty agents 319 00:16:43,676 --> 00:16:47,396 Speaker 6: all lined up ready to go with shotguns and rifles 320 00:16:47,396 --> 00:16:48,196 Speaker 6: and un davy. 321 00:16:49,436 --> 00:16:52,876 Speaker 1: There were two wired up packages addressed to two apartment 322 00:16:52,916 --> 00:16:56,276 Speaker 1: buildings right next door to each other. So the undercover 323 00:16:56,396 --> 00:16:59,956 Speaker 1: postal inspector buzzed at one address, and then he buzzed 324 00:16:59,956 --> 00:17:04,556 Speaker 1: at the other. No answer. He left behind mail slips. 325 00:17:05,516 --> 00:17:07,996 Speaker 1: Peter and David waited to see what would happen next, 326 00:17:08,796 --> 00:17:10,476 Speaker 1: and waited some more. 327 00:17:12,196 --> 00:17:14,756 Speaker 6: One of the guys from da he took a leak 328 00:17:14,956 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 6: in the East River, and believe it or not, two 329 00:17:18,236 --> 00:17:21,396 Speaker 6: sanitation police guys came up to him and said, hey, 330 00:17:22,756 --> 00:17:23,836 Speaker 6: you can't pee in the river. 331 00:17:25,756 --> 00:17:28,196 Speaker 1: David Shean could feel his hopes of catching anyone in 332 00:17:28,276 --> 00:17:32,516 Speaker 1: Chinatown pissing away to Nobody was coming to collect the packages, 333 00:17:32,756 --> 00:17:35,076 Speaker 1: even though their street value was supposed to be huge. 334 00:17:35,676 --> 00:17:39,756 Speaker 1: Maybe someone had tipped them off. The whole operation now 335 00:17:39,876 --> 00:17:42,636 Speaker 1: hinged on the third box, the one that was going 336 00:17:42,636 --> 00:17:43,196 Speaker 1: to Brooklyn. 337 00:17:43,956 --> 00:17:45,076 Speaker 4: We heard the beep go off. 338 00:17:45,716 --> 00:17:48,956 Speaker 1: Peter Mattessa rushed over to the Brooklyn address to meet 339 00:17:48,956 --> 00:17:49,436 Speaker 1: the agents. 340 00:17:49,476 --> 00:17:52,516 Speaker 4: There. We knocked on the door or broke down the door. 341 00:17:52,556 --> 00:17:55,276 Speaker 4: There's a package open. The stuffed animals were out. 342 00:17:55,716 --> 00:17:58,516 Speaker 1: Peter found himself face to face with a thirty eight 343 00:17:58,556 --> 00:18:01,636 Speaker 1: year old woman, a mother of two, an accountant at 344 00:18:01,636 --> 00:18:05,356 Speaker 1: a bank. Peter explained she was under arrest. 345 00:18:07,236 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 4: Read her rights you know in Cantonese, Amandarin. I forgot 346 00:18:12,396 --> 00:18:15,516 Speaker 4: exactly which one it was. She was very upset, crying, 347 00:18:16,996 --> 00:18:21,076 Speaker 4: and your goal is to try to calm the situation 348 00:18:21,156 --> 00:18:24,436 Speaker 4: down as soon as you can and then hopefully move 349 00:18:24,516 --> 00:18:25,116 Speaker 4: up the ladder. 350 00:18:27,836 --> 00:18:31,196 Speaker 1: By move up the ladder, Peter means this woman might 351 00:18:31,236 --> 00:18:34,156 Speaker 1: have information that would help the FEDS figure out who's 352 00:18:34,196 --> 00:18:37,276 Speaker 1: in charge of importing the heroine. The first rung of 353 00:18:37,316 --> 00:18:41,196 Speaker 1: the ladder was right here in this house. Peter needed 354 00:18:41,196 --> 00:18:44,396 Speaker 1: to know the box's next destination, and to find that out, 355 00:18:44,756 --> 00:18:48,636 Speaker 1: she needed this woman to act totally normal. She needed 356 00:18:48,676 --> 00:18:50,876 Speaker 1: to call whoever she was going to call after the 357 00:18:50,916 --> 00:18:53,556 Speaker 1: box's arrival. They needed her to go from being an 358 00:18:53,596 --> 00:18:56,756 Speaker 1: accomplice to being a cooperating witness quickly. 359 00:18:57,556 --> 00:19:00,516 Speaker 4: I tell her the a maund of Heroin here, you're 360 00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:03,396 Speaker 4: facing ten years to life because it's so much Harowin. 361 00:19:04,356 --> 00:19:07,076 Speaker 4: This is your time to help out yourself. We can't 362 00:19:07,116 --> 00:19:09,036 Speaker 4: guarantee you how much jail time you do, but it'll 363 00:19:09,036 --> 00:19:12,996 Speaker 4: be brought to the attention of the judges. Will know 364 00:19:13,116 --> 00:19:15,636 Speaker 4: how much you've helped out in this case. And it's 365 00:19:15,636 --> 00:19:19,156 Speaker 4: a courageous decision to make. We try to tell them 366 00:19:19,196 --> 00:19:22,196 Speaker 4: we think it's the right one to make to help us, 367 00:19:22,676 --> 00:19:23,356 Speaker 4: and we help you. 368 00:19:25,036 --> 00:19:27,316 Speaker 1: But the person this woman was going to call was 369 00:19:27,356 --> 00:19:31,876 Speaker 1: her friend. If she cooperated, that would mean betraying her friend. 370 00:19:32,476 --> 00:19:35,236 Speaker 1: But if she didn't cooperate, she might not see her 371 00:19:35,236 --> 00:19:38,796 Speaker 1: two children grow up. She had to make an impossible decision. 372 00:19:38,876 --> 00:19:43,436 Speaker 1: As the agents hovered over her, the clock was ticking. 373 00:19:46,116 --> 00:19:48,476 Speaker 1: This woman agreed to cooperate. Her name is in the 374 00:19:48,516 --> 00:19:51,116 Speaker 1: court documents, but she never responded to her real quest 375 00:19:51,156 --> 00:19:54,476 Speaker 1: for an interview. Anyway, her name's not that important to 376 00:19:54,516 --> 00:19:57,516 Speaker 1: the story. What's important is the chain of events she 377 00:19:57,556 --> 00:20:00,356 Speaker 1: set off by giving the federal agents the name of 378 00:20:00,356 --> 00:20:06,076 Speaker 1: her contact. Over the next few days, agents were arresting 379 00:20:06,116 --> 00:20:08,476 Speaker 1: moms like her all over in New York City. 380 00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:11,836 Speaker 4: It was like the first time we've ever seen anything 381 00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:15,236 Speaker 4: like that. Really, Basically, you're stay at home moms. We're 382 00:20:15,276 --> 00:20:19,796 Speaker 4: picking up these lodge amounts at heroin, and I'm sure 383 00:20:19,836 --> 00:20:20,876 Speaker 4: they knew it was drugs. 384 00:20:21,876 --> 00:20:24,116 Speaker 1: It turned out that all of these women, women who 385 00:20:24,156 --> 00:20:27,236 Speaker 1: received packages of heroin sent to their homes, onto each 386 00:20:27,276 --> 00:20:32,196 Speaker 1: other from playing Mahjong Majong is a game of luck 387 00:20:32,276 --> 00:20:35,196 Speaker 1: and skill. You play with domino like tiles instead of 388 00:20:35,236 --> 00:20:40,236 Speaker 1: with cards. They have different designs on them, stones, bamboos, dragons, 389 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:42,996 Speaker 1: and the goal is to end up with four pairs 390 00:20:43,036 --> 00:20:46,356 Speaker 1: of three tiles and one pair of two tiles. That's 391 00:20:46,396 --> 00:20:50,036 Speaker 1: called the eyes. Different hands are with different amounts of points. 392 00:20:50,676 --> 00:20:54,076 Speaker 1: There were Majong parlors all over Chinatown. These are places 393 00:20:54,076 --> 00:20:56,036 Speaker 1: where people could play for a bit of money or 394 00:20:56,076 --> 00:20:58,916 Speaker 1: a lot of money. The parlors were a place to 395 00:20:58,956 --> 00:21:02,276 Speaker 1: catch up with old friends and make new ones. But 396 00:21:02,396 --> 00:21:06,196 Speaker 1: now many of these friends were under arrest and they 397 00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:11,556 Speaker 1: were being forced to turn on one another. Customs agent 398 00:21:11,636 --> 00:21:14,276 Speaker 1: David Shean was doing a lot of that forcing. 399 00:21:14,916 --> 00:21:17,836 Speaker 6: We're going to seize all your assets, we're gonna take 400 00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:19,836 Speaker 6: all your kids away from you, and you're going to 401 00:21:19,916 --> 00:21:22,876 Speaker 6: go to jail, and they're going to go to force 402 00:21:22,956 --> 00:21:25,996 Speaker 6: the care and things of that nature. 403 00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:28,796 Speaker 1: You know you're doing that because you really need their 404 00:21:29,436 --> 00:21:30,916 Speaker 1: help to get to the person at the top. 405 00:21:30,996 --> 00:21:34,196 Speaker 6: I guess absolutely, Yeah, you need somebody, and you know 406 00:21:34,316 --> 00:21:36,556 Speaker 6: you need more than one person to cooperate. 407 00:21:36,316 --> 00:21:44,516 Speaker 1: Because you need it to be cooperated. Yes, after I 408 00:21:44,516 --> 00:21:46,836 Speaker 1: got that suitcase full of court documents on the Chinatown 409 00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:49,636 Speaker 1: drug trials, I realized I need help from someone who 410 00:21:49,716 --> 00:21:52,956 Speaker 1: spoke Cantonese. That's the language that's spoken by many of 411 00:21:52,956 --> 00:21:54,396 Speaker 1: the people in the documents. 412 00:21:55,956 --> 00:21:58,716 Speaker 5: My name is Shu yu Wang. I'm a practicing attorney 413 00:21:58,796 --> 00:22:00,076 Speaker 5: in the city in New York. 414 00:22:01,196 --> 00:22:03,196 Speaker 1: I met she You through a friend of a friend. 415 00:22:03,876 --> 00:22:05,516 Speaker 1: We met up at a bar and I told her 416 00:22:05,556 --> 00:22:06,956 Speaker 1: all about the Chinatown case. 417 00:22:07,916 --> 00:22:11,276 Speaker 5: It was a very interesting story to me personally. I 418 00:22:11,316 --> 00:22:14,316 Speaker 5: came from the Cantonese area in China, which is like 419 00:22:14,396 --> 00:22:16,916 Speaker 5: super close to Hong Kong, where a lot of those 420 00:22:16,956 --> 00:22:20,916 Speaker 5: people in the story were originally from. My major in 421 00:22:20,956 --> 00:22:24,196 Speaker 5: college was actually journalism, so I sort of like opened 422 00:22:24,236 --> 00:22:25,356 Speaker 5: up a part of my brain. 423 00:22:26,476 --> 00:22:29,316 Speaker 1: So she joined me in reporting out this story. We 424 00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:32,956 Speaker 1: went over court documents together, and we visited Chinatown together 425 00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:34,116 Speaker 1: for months and months. 426 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:41,396 Speaker 7: Loved. 427 00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:43,476 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that. 428 00:22:45,756 --> 00:22:47,556 Speaker 1: For most of the time that I've lived in New York, 429 00:22:48,036 --> 00:22:50,756 Speaker 1: Chinatown's been a place where I'd get dinner or drinks 430 00:22:50,756 --> 00:22:54,076 Speaker 1: with friends. For sure, you was a neighborhood where she 431 00:22:54,116 --> 00:22:54,836 Speaker 1: got groceries. 432 00:22:55,996 --> 00:22:59,116 Speaker 5: You are certain ingredients that's a rare fine in a 433 00:22:59,236 --> 00:23:03,476 Speaker 5: non Chinese grocery stores, like chicken feet. There are like 434 00:23:03,516 --> 00:23:06,356 Speaker 5: certain things that I can only get here at a 435 00:23:06,396 --> 00:23:06,956 Speaker 5: good price. 436 00:23:11,876 --> 00:23:14,156 Speaker 1: But we've been learning that Chinatown's a place with one 437 00:23:14,236 --> 00:23:15,836 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years of history. 438 00:23:16,476 --> 00:23:20,316 Speaker 7: So Chinatowns today we think of as these conturist destinations, 439 00:23:20,436 --> 00:23:22,516 Speaker 7: and you know, they're fun places to go to get 440 00:23:23,036 --> 00:23:26,076 Speaker 7: you know, trash keys or jim sum and have kind 441 00:23:26,116 --> 00:23:28,876 Speaker 7: of a colorful urban experience or you know, a fun 442 00:23:28,996 --> 00:23:33,876 Speaker 7: meal or something. But the reason Chinatowns exist in the 443 00:23:33,916 --> 00:23:38,156 Speaker 7: first place is really about a history of racial segregation. 444 00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:43,676 Speaker 1: That's Ellen Wu. She teaches history at Indiana University, Bloomington, 445 00:23:44,116 --> 00:23:46,396 Speaker 1: and she talked to us about how Chinatowns arose in 446 00:23:46,476 --> 00:23:50,716 Speaker 1: American cities in the face of anti Asian laws and violence. 447 00:23:52,276 --> 00:23:56,436 Speaker 1: US immigration laws also helped create Chinatowns, especially a law 448 00:23:56,516 --> 00:24:00,196 Speaker 1: called the Chinese Exclusion Act, which passed in eighteen eighty two. 449 00:24:01,596 --> 00:24:04,996 Speaker 1: Another historian we spoke to is Michael Luo. She's an 450 00:24:05,076 --> 00:24:07,396 Speaker 1: editor at The New Yorker and he wrote a book 451 00:24:07,436 --> 00:24:10,396 Speaker 1: on Chinese immigration called Strangers in the Land. 452 00:24:10,876 --> 00:24:14,156 Speaker 8: It was the Justice of the Supreme Court, Justice Stephen Field, 453 00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:18,036 Speaker 8: who wrote the opinion, referred to the Chinese as strangers 454 00:24:18,116 --> 00:24:21,996 Speaker 8: in the land, talking about how they could never assimilate 455 00:24:22,076 --> 00:24:26,116 Speaker 8: with our people. And I feel like the stranger label 456 00:24:26,236 --> 00:24:32,636 Speaker 8: remains imprinted on Asian Americans today. 457 00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:36,196 Speaker 1: She says she's felt what Michael Lewo was describing, especially 458 00:24:36,236 --> 00:24:38,756 Speaker 1: when she first moved to the US for law school. 459 00:24:39,716 --> 00:24:42,476 Speaker 5: So it was kind of like surprised at how friendly 460 00:24:43,236 --> 00:24:46,756 Speaker 5: people were surrounding me. But also today I'm sensing like 461 00:24:47,076 --> 00:24:49,356 Speaker 5: your people out there just kind of like, oh, you're different, 462 00:24:49,836 --> 00:24:53,516 Speaker 5: and you can tell by their gestures, by their facial expressions, 463 00:24:53,676 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 5: things like that. 464 00:24:57,036 --> 00:25:00,156 Speaker 1: As a white person, I've never experienced that, but I 465 00:25:00,196 --> 00:25:02,276 Speaker 1: do know how bad it feels to be viewed as 466 00:25:02,276 --> 00:25:05,636 Speaker 1: a stranger. My family moved to the US from Poland 467 00:25:05,756 --> 00:25:08,796 Speaker 1: when I was eight. My English was kind of weird, 468 00:25:09,236 --> 00:25:12,076 Speaker 1: but I wanted to fit in so badly. When I 469 00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:14,676 Speaker 1: look at pictures of myself, it's embarrassing. I was like 470 00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:16,876 Speaker 1: a parody of what I thought an American kid was 471 00:25:16,916 --> 00:25:20,196 Speaker 1: supposed to look like. And the more she you and 472 00:25:20,236 --> 00:25:23,236 Speaker 1: I looked into this Chinatown case, the more we came 473 00:25:23,276 --> 00:25:25,236 Speaker 1: to see that it's also about someone who was trying, 474 00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:28,876 Speaker 1: in their own way, to feel like they belonged. 475 00:25:43,156 --> 00:25:44,796 Speaker 2: You can listen to the rest of this episode of 476 00:25:44,796 --> 00:25:48,596 Speaker 2: The Chinatown Sting and the full series wherever you listen 477 00:25:48,636 --> 00:25:49,356 Speaker 2: to podcasts.