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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Over the past four weeks,

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Speaker 1: the family went out searching fields and vacant homes and

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Speaker 1: both Pontiac and Detroit. Those efforts have turned up nothing.

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Speaker 1: Police tell the family they found curtain Dolls SUV from

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Speaker 1: that night, but there's been no activity on a cell

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Speaker 1: phone or credit card, leading me to believe it's more

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Speaker 1: to it than what people are talking about. And they're

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Speaker 1: not talking. I mean, I see, Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friend Jamont Terry at NBC four. And investigators need

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Speaker 1: tips because with each passing day, it gets harder to

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Speaker 1: believe a father would deliberately desert his family like this. No,

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Speaker 1: that not knowing is the worst part ever. Now the

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Speaker 1: family insisting that this is completely out of character for

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Speaker 1: curtain Doll. Now they do plan to do another search

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Speaker 1: effort at vacant homes and build throughout the Troits and

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Speaker 1: in Pontiac. Right now, police are only saying that this

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Speaker 1: is a missing person's case, but the family suspects foul

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Speaker 1: play when a guy, Leonard curtain Doll goes missing family

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Speaker 1: and friends in a panic, but then bizarre turn of events,

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Speaker 1: So listen to our friends at Fox TOO. Film crew

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Speaker 1: was shooting a scene in a wooded area in Pontiac

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Speaker 1: when they noticed a foul smell and soon realized it

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Speaker 1: was coming from a decomposing body. Investigators believe it's the

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Speaker 1: body of a missing Pontiac father. He's been gone for months.

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Speaker 1: We had had no ideal way was and how withdrawn

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Speaker 1: it to now They've been searching papering neighborhood since forty

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Speaker 1: one year old Leonard curtain doll One missing the day

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Speaker 1: after Thanksgiving? What's these last few months been like for you? Guys? Who?

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Speaker 1: Who after five months of not knowing his family's already

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Speaker 1: to get cell answers not the ones they hoped for.

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Speaker 1: I'm just mad at happened like this? Dumped in a

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Speaker 1: like trash for real? Oh my goodness, this guy goes missing,

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Speaker 1: his body found in a bizarre manner in Indie. Film

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Speaker 1: crew on location in a wooded area smells a strong

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Speaker 1: odor and investigates They find a body, a badly decomposed body.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, SYNDICATETA talk show host Dave mac

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Speaker 1: Dave Mack, how did this guy, Leonard curtain Dogg go missing? Actually?

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Speaker 1: He went out the night around Thanksgiving, went to a

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Speaker 1: club and went out for a night on the town

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Speaker 1: and never ever showed back up home. That was where

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Speaker 1: you heard in the first cut. His family was just shocked.

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Speaker 1: They missed him for Thanksgiving, them missed him for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: The missing for Newers. This is a family man. He's

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Speaker 1: got six kids, and he just goes off the radar,

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Speaker 1: totally gone, and nobody's talking Wow, okay. Then his body

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Speaker 1: turns up. Take a listen to our friend at Fox too,

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Speaker 1: Jessica jip Knock. We're told the body was badly decomposed.

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Speaker 1: Police were able to use tattoos to id curtain doll,

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Speaker 1: but they can't be certain it's him until the body

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Speaker 1: is taken to the medical examiner. We're here at the

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Speaker 1: right time, right place, right time. Jeremiah Daniel and his

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Speaker 1: film crew were shooting a movie here Wednesday afternoon. He

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Speaker 1: still had makeup on from the shoot. They discovered the

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Speaker 1: body in a wooded area not too far from Orchard

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Speaker 1: Lake and Telegraph. All I could see was like the

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Speaker 1: shirt and a little bit of the skull. That's all

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Speaker 1: I could see. And the smell was really bad. That's

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Speaker 1: when everybody started the freak out. Police are not saying

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Speaker 1: whether this is a suspicious death. They will know more

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Speaker 1: after an autopsy has done curtain. Doll's family says it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like him to just disappear. He's very giving, he's

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Speaker 1: a good father, and so Dave met syndicated talk show host.

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Speaker 1: He was last seen out and about with friends at

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Speaker 1: a local bar. How long had he been missing before

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Speaker 1: his body was really accidentally stumbled upon? How many months?

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Speaker 1: Five months? Nancy, five months too. Jose Got Morgan joining me,

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Speaker 1: forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: You know, jose Got you and I know this to

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Speaker 1: be true because you explain why the longer it takes

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Speaker 1: to find a body, the more time that elapses, the

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Speaker 1: more difficult it is to solve a murder. Yeah, as

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Speaker 1: Tom goes by, Nancy, you begin to lose evidence. We're

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Speaker 1: talking five months down range since this gentleman was last seen,

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Speaker 1: So everything's going to be compromised at the scene. Our

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Speaker 1: potential for compromise at the scene relatives to physical evidence.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about clothing obviously, the soft tissue of the

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Speaker 1: body that's going to give this going to be demonstrative

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Speaker 1: of any kind of injuries this man might have sustained.

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Speaker 1: And you know just that the effects of wind, water, rain, snow,

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Speaker 1: freezing temperatures, this sort of thing and exposure to the

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Speaker 1: elements is going to be very impactful. Well, the reality

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Speaker 1: is that the body was so badly decomposed. Just as

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Speaker 1: you were saying, the medical examiner had to use tattoos

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Speaker 1: to make an id to doctor Tim Gallagher joining me,

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Speaker 1: we're now medical examiner out of the floor toa jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: How do you go about when when you can't identify

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Speaker 1: by facial recognition? Okay, how do you go about identifying

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Speaker 1: a body? There are certain methods. One of the methods

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Speaker 1: is X ray. If the person had any orthopedic work

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Speaker 1: done on them, that is, operations on their bones, broken bones,

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Speaker 1: we can compare the x rays when they were alive

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Speaker 1: to when the body was found. Also, dental work, we

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Speaker 1: can get old dental records and identify the person through

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Speaker 1: their dental work via that method. Also a DNA we

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Speaker 1: can remove some of the tissue, perhaps some of the

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Speaker 1: bone marrow or some of the pulp from the teeth

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Speaker 1: and send that off for DNA and compare that against

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Speaker 1: known family members. You know an interesting thing about DNA

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Speaker 1: and fingerprints. You have to have somebody to compare it too. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you can get the victims DNA, you can get

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Speaker 1: the victims fingerprints, but unless they're in the fingerprint data

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Speaker 1: bgg aphiser Cotis, there's no way you're gonna make a comparison,

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Speaker 1: explain Joe Scott Morgan White. There has to be somebody

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Speaker 1: to compare the prints and the DNA too. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the rub. Everybody always ask, well, why don't you just

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Speaker 1: ided the body off of fingerprints. Well, that's fine. You

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Speaker 1: can get a perfect fingerprint taken from a body, for instance,

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Speaker 1: but if if in fact there's nobody to compare it to,

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Speaker 1: it's worthless at that point in time. Same with DNA.

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Speaker 1: You have to know who you're looking for. There is

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Speaker 1: no generalized Contrary to what people think, there is no

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Speaker 1: generalized DNA bank that you can actually go to and

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Speaker 1: do a comparison. Now there's been a lot of changes,

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Speaker 1: but we're still not at the point where we can

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Speaker 1: just drop a DNA sample into a gigantic pool and

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Speaker 1: get a match. I mean, your fingerprints have to be

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Speaker 1: on record. When you're a baby. I think they take

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Speaker 1: a print of your foot, not your fingerprints. You have

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Speaker 1: to either have a criminal record or you have to

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Speaker 1: have given your fingerprint willingly, like I did when I

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Speaker 1: went into law enforcement. I had to give my fingerprints

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Speaker 1: and they still exist somewhere out there. So I guess

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Speaker 1: you know I won't be killing my husband anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: Let's just put it that way and leave a fingerprint

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Speaker 1: behind anyway, Long story short, I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to Dave Mac, syndicated talk show host, so we find

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Speaker 1: his body after months and months being gone, last seen

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Speaker 1: at a club. Now, wasn't that club owned by his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend's dad? Actually, it was owned by his so called girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: I say so called because his family says they weren't dating. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: Lakisha Hawkins and Leonard Kirkendall did have a relationship of swords,

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Speaker 1: and something happened in the club that night that Lakisha's father,

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Hawk Hawkins, actually witnessed. And that's where we sit

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Speaker 1: right this minute, is what did he do when he

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Speaker 1: saw this interaction between Leonard and Lakeisha? Okay, when you

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Speaker 1: say they had interaction, for all I know, he could

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Speaker 1: have bought her a diet coke at the bar? What

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Speaker 1: do you mean by the father? Okay, first of all,

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Speaker 1: you're saying she your daughter. Lakisha Hawkins, age thirty three,

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Speaker 1: owned the bar. I also have information the dad, but

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing. The last place he was seen

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Speaker 1: was an establishment run by his on and off girlfriend

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Speaker 1: Lakisha Hawkins. Her dad also there, Kenneth Hawkins. So when

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Speaker 1: you say the dad, forty nine year old Kenneth Hawkins

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Speaker 1: sees interaction between Lakisha and Leonard Curtaindall, what do you

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Speaker 1: mean by that? I'm trying to be kind. Leonard, apparently,

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Speaker 1: according to witnesses, was in an argument that escalated to

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Speaker 1: where he put his hands on Lakisha, putting his hands

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Speaker 1: on her throat and was choking her. And that's what

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Hawkins allegedly saw in the Boy that night. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friend. Reporter Jen Shanz at w

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Speaker 1: x y Z. Curtain Doll's brother says when la first

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Speaker 1: went missing, he knew something was wrong, wrote on lead

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Speaker 1: He's not leaving his family to Dozens of people gathered

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Speaker 1: where curtain Doll's body was found Saturday night to lay candles, pray,

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Speaker 1: and share memories which for White sent her around their children.

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Speaker 1: Just being a loving father, Um, supporting Hunt his kids

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Speaker 1: and always being there for them. Um, I'm gonna miss

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Speaker 1: that support. You know, we've missed him these last few months,

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Speaker 1: and it's been you know, it's been rough. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Curtain Doll's brother says when La first

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Speaker 1: went missing, he knew something was wrong. Road on leave.

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Speaker 1: He's not leaving. His family of dozens of people gathered

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Speaker 1: where curtain Doll's body was found Saturday night to lay candles,

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Speaker 1: pray and share memories, which for White center around their children.

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Speaker 1: Just him being a loving father, Um, supporting Hunt his

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Speaker 1: kids and always being there for them. Um, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: miss that support. You know, we've missed him these last

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Speaker 1: few months, and it's been you know, it's been Wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute, A loving father with six children.

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Speaker 1: Then what's he doing with a girlfriend out at a

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Speaker 1: bar at night? Take a listen to Erica Ericson at

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Speaker 1: Fox Too. Six months after their brother, forty one year

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Speaker 1: old Leonard Curtain Dollard Pontiac went missing, and exactly two

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Speaker 1: weeks since his decomposing Bonnie was found in his empty field,

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Speaker 1: his family believes there's much more not being told about

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Speaker 1: their brother's murderer. Whatever happened in that club, he didn't

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Speaker 1: deserve that. He didn't deserve to be dubbed. I'll hear

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Speaker 1: like this. Back in November of the Oakland County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: Office says Leonard had been inside this Pontiac club with

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend, thirty four year old Lakisha Hawkins. But Leonard's

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Speaker 1: family says Lakisha was not his girlfriend. Apparently the two

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Speaker 1: had been seeing each other despite them both seeing other people.

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Speaker 1: That girl is very, very eightful. She is a lifetime movie.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully the whole movie doesn't feel like a lifetime movie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: right there you're hearing now. Granted, this is his family

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Speaker 1: in our curtain dolls. But to doctor Ryan Fuller, clinical psychologist,

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Speaker 1: executive director and New York Behavioral Health as I always say,

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Speaker 1: when I'm trying to figure out a murder, look around

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Speaker 1: for the nut. As soon as you find the nut,

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Speaker 1: that's the most likely person to act out of the norm.

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Speaker 1: And here you've got. Now, granted you've got to consider

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Speaker 1: the source. It's his family, but they say she stalked

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Speaker 1: him and that she has quote a Lifetime movie. I

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Speaker 1: would say that qualifies as a nut. Doctor Fuller, Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we do know that, as you kind of allude to,

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Speaker 1: that sort of abnormal behaviors are correlated with other abnormal behaviors,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, you certainly want to pay attention

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Speaker 1: to if there's a lot of drama and things like that.

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Speaker 1: That certainly doesn't mean there's physical violence involved. But certainly

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Speaker 1: we do know that intense negative emotions like hanger and

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Speaker 1: things like that do put us at risk for aggression.

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Speaker 1: Very rare when that happens, but you certainly don't want

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Speaker 1: to ignore those kinds of factors. If someone's got a

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Speaker 1: chaotic life, certainly makes senpid investigators who want to pay

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Speaker 1: less attention to that as a as a possibility. Well,

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Speaker 1: according to Fox To reporter Erica Ericson, it gets worse.

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Speaker 1: Leonard's family says, quite possibly the most disgusting part about

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Speaker 1: all of this is when their brother went missing, Lakisha

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Speaker 1: Hawkins helped them search for him. She just a sick person,

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Speaker 1: She has sick individual She picked us up, cast off flyers,

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Speaker 1: drove us around. Leonard's siblings also say Lakisha Hawkins offered

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Speaker 1: a ten thousand dollar reward to find him, and that's

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Speaker 1: not all he's say. You're individual with you, right. Kenneth

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Speaker 1: Hawkins since charged with five counts, including open murder. Lakisha

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Speaker 1: Hawkins charged with carrying a way of a human body

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Speaker 1: and accessory after the fact. Y'all see her face anal tear?

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Speaker 1: Isn't that woman face? Antal cane in her eyes? Kenneth

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Speaker 1: Hawkins facing life in prison, Lakisha facing years yawesome, indictive,

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Speaker 1: evil bevil where y'all need to run in healeful life.

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Speaker 1: You know, it always amazes me to doctor Ryan Fuller,

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Speaker 1: and again I'll bring up Scott Peterson because he's such

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Speaker 1: a perfect example of him going to the vigil. We've

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Speaker 1: seen that many times, standing by when he knew where

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Speaker 1: Lacy Peterson was, he killed her. How do these people

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Speaker 1: keep how do they keep a straight face? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: mean it's unclearly a reindividual case. But you've asked about

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Speaker 1: personality disorders in the past. It's possible something like that

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Speaker 1: that I have any social personality disorder where they're actually

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Speaker 1: not experiencing empathy or remorse. They just simply don't experience

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Speaker 1: those kinds of emotions and are able to sort of

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Speaker 1: behave in instrumental ways that allow them to achieve their

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Speaker 1: goals without sort of concern and care for others. They're

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Speaker 1: really focused on preserving themselves, surviving and achieving whatever it

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Speaker 1: is they identify as a goal. You know, the reality

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Speaker 1: is to you, it's got Morgan. If that film crew

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Speaker 1: had not found Curtain Doll's body, these two Kenneth and

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Speaker 1: Lakisha Hawkins could have gotten away with a murder. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, Nancy. You know, the further further down

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Speaker 1: in time that we go, we talk about losing evidence.

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Speaker 1: As time goes by, things get more and more compromised,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, if they had not stumbled on to this

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Speaker 1: fella's body, Uh yeah, it's it's quite possible. You know.

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Speaker 1: I often think, you know, when all the cases I

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Speaker 1: worked over the course of my career, how many bodies

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Speaker 1: were actually out there that were never found? Just could

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Speaker 1: have been one of do you, Dave mac She is

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Speaker 1: out already on a two hundred thousand dollars cash bond.

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Speaker 1: What's the chance she's going to take off? That's what

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Speaker 1: they're deeply concerned about, is that she's gonna bolt. They're

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Speaker 1: keeping the dad locked up they're keeping close tracking. They've

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Speaker 1: got a monitoring device on her and everything else. But

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Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, one last thing on the body. You know,

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Speaker 1: the family actually searched the area where the body was found.

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Speaker 1: His sister walked that path, and they believed that these

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Speaker 1: people went and moved the body there because they had

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Speaker 1: already searched that place. Okay, that takes some cold blood.

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Speaker 1: And to doctor Tim Gallagher out of Florida, you know,

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Speaker 1: the body was so decomposed, it had been there for

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Speaker 1: over five months before it was found. Could that affect

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Speaker 1: the evidence the prosecutors need for a conviction, Well, it's

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Speaker 1: difficult to say. Number One, you have to determine what

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Speaker 1: the cause of death is. If it was, for instance,

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Speaker 1: multiple gunshot wounds, and then some of those gunshot wounds

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Speaker 1: were visible on the bones in the skull, If there

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Speaker 1: were gunshot holes and entrances and eggits going through the skull,

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Speaker 1: then the decomposition of the soft tissue might not play

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Speaker 1: into determining the cause of the murder. If there was

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Speaker 1: things such as strangulation, then of course that might, though

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Speaker 1: that evidence will be lost in the decomposition process. And

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Speaker 1: let me ask you the same question to Joe Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: the body had been there over five months. Could the

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Speaker 1: level of decomposition affect the evidence basically what the state

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Speaker 1: needs to prove the cause of death. Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: that it could nancy to a certain degree, but I

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Speaker 1: was encouraged. I remember hearing what the film crew said.

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Speaker 1: They said, we saw his shirt. So if this is something, say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, like a gunshot wound, if a gunshot wound

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Speaker 1: passed through that shirt, there might be an opportunity for

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Speaker 1: that shirt to wholesome evidence relative to things. Well, first off,

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Speaker 1: it's been fired through and secondly like a range of fire,

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Speaker 1: this sort of thing, So that sit deposition that might

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Speaker 1: be on the shirt might still be there. To Dave

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Speaker 1: Max in a kind of talk show host, do we

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Speaker 1: know the cause of death is gunshot? And if so,

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Speaker 1: is it multiple gunshot? Yeah? It's one gun shot directly

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Speaker 1: in the chest. And according to a witness in side

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Speaker 1: the club, mister Hawkins pulled the gun, put it right

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Speaker 1: up to his chest, backed up a couple of inches

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Speaker 1: and fired. So there is an eyewitness. And just like

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Speaker 1: Jess got Morgan mentioned the shirt was there, the shirt

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Speaker 1: is going to show evidence of a gunshot and I

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Speaker 1: just can't help believe there's a chance that bullet is

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Speaker 1: still there. We wait as justice unfolds. Kenneth Hawkins behind bars,

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Speaker 1: his daughter Lakeisha Hawkins out on bond. Crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Now, the sixty five year old man from

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Speaker 1: Westbrook is charged with second degree manslaughter. Earlier this year's

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Speaker 1: state lawmakers considered the Aid in Dying Bill that would

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Speaker 1: essentially legalize assisted suicide, allowing doctors to prescribe a lethal

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Speaker 1: dose of medication to adults who are terminally ill and

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Speaker 1: have less than six months to live. The measure was

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Speaker 1: the focus of intense debate, but died in committee. With

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Speaker 1: so many states passing these laws now and over twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of Americans having access to these laws, zip codes

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Speaker 1: are defining end of life care and end of life

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Speaker 1: choices for some, that's wrong. Connecticut should do better. Tim

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Speaker 1: Appleton works for Compassion and Choices, in organization that focuses

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Speaker 1: on improving care and expanding options for people at the

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Speaker 1: end of life. Although he says they don't know enough

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Speaker 1: details about Connor's case to say if the family member

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Speaker 1: could have benefited from the Aid and Dying bill, Connecticut

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Speaker 1: residents should have access to this law, and it should

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Speaker 1: join the one in five Americans in other states that

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Speaker 1: do so. Family members aren't faced with this terrible choice

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Speaker 1: that could land them in their criminal justice system. However,

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Speaker 1: there are advocates for those with disabilities who are worried

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Speaker 1: families could take advantage of the bill if it was enacted.

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Speaker 1: That's Fox sixty ones Xenia Maldonado in the last Hours,

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Speaker 1: a husband charged with manslaughter for holding a gun up

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Speaker 1: to his terminally ill wife's head so she could pull

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Speaker 1: the trigger and kill herself. He says she was too

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Speaker 1: weak to study the weapon after horrific year long battle

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Speaker 1: with cancer. I Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories, What

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Speaker 1: is right? What is wrong? Joining me right now? Syndicated

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Speaker 1: talk show host Dave mcdave, what's happening? The woman that

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Speaker 1: actually was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and it had spread

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Speaker 1: to various parts of her body. The chemotherapy and radiation

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Speaker 1: that she was undergoing. The treatment was so painful because

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Speaker 1: exacerbated by her lyme disease, she was in constant agony,

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Speaker 1: constant pain. She was looking for any kind of way out.

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Speaker 1: Laurie's battle against cancer was horrific, as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: listen to this. She had ovarian cancer that had spread

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Speaker 1: to other organs in her body, and the treatment for that,

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Speaker 1: combined with the lyme disease she already had, left her

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Speaker 1: just in constant pain. That's according to the arrest warrant

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Speaker 1: we already have. Sixty five year old Kem Connors turned

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Speaker 1: himself into police yesterday. This was a long police investigation.

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Speaker 1: About a year and a half ago, his sixty three

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Speaker 1: year old wife, Laurie, was diagnosed with cancer. Her doctor

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Speaker 1: told police about her pain and her weakness that she

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Speaker 1: was feeling. She actually tried to kill herself once before

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Speaker 1: with whiskey and pills and failed. The reports say she

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Speaker 1: asked her husband for help this time around, so last

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Speaker 1: September six. The arrest warrant says his wife was lying

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Speaker 1: in bed. He held a gun to her head while

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Speaker 1: she pulled the trigger. The two of them tried to

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Speaker 1: make it look like she did it all by herself,

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Speaker 1: but police could tell she had help, and he quickly

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Speaker 1: admitted to what he had done when police started asking

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Speaker 1: her about that. And because assistant suicide is not legal

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Speaker 1: in the state of Connecticut, he is now facing a

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Speaker 1: count of manslaughter two. That is assisting someone with taking

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Speaker 1: their own life despite the difficult situation and whatever sympathies

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Speaker 1: people might feel, it is technically a homicide and being

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Speaker 1: treated as such. That's WT in h News eight can't

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Speaker 1: pierce straight out to Paula Natari, criminal defense attorney federal

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Paul A question what impact will Laurie's reported

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Speaker 1: suicide notes and previous suicide attempts have on the case

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Speaker 1: against her husband of forty two years, Kevin Connors Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I think this case is a tragic. I think it's

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Speaker 1: we need some compassion here, and I think that this

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Speaker 1: is a jury nullification case. I think that the defense

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Speaker 1: is just going to have to do their best to

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Speaker 1: show that this husband was desperate to end the pain

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Speaker 1: and suffering of his wife. This is a good man,

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Speaker 1: a good marriage, He loved his wife, they had four

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Speaker 1: children together. There's no indication that anyone you wanted to

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Speaker 1: go that mom wanted to kill herself because she was

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Speaker 1: in so much pain, and the husband was just trying

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Speaker 1: to stop his his wife from from living this life

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Speaker 1: of torture, and he in the end um he was

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Speaker 1: I mean, this this case really touches home for me

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Speaker 1: because I had a daughter that passed away UM five

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Speaker 1: years ago and I had to watch her UM in

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Speaker 1: the end stages of life. And there's nothing more compelling

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Speaker 1: and horrible than for a family member to watch another

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Speaker 1: family member suffer. I think any juror that has watched

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Speaker 1: a loved one, you know, die from from a horrific

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Speaker 1: disease that like cancer, is going to feel his compassion

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Speaker 1: and they're going to this is a jury holification. This

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Speaker 1: is this is a case that that UM I think

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Speaker 1: will will play an important role in legislation to UM

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Speaker 1: to euthanasia. You know what, Paula Attari, excellent point. Here

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Speaker 1: is the problem. Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott forensics expert,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon. Joseph Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan I covered a case somewhat similar to this where

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Speaker 1: the wife died after a long battle, not with cancer,

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Speaker 1: but a different element. The husband quote helped her commit suicide.

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Speaker 1: Turned out he had a girlfriend. There was inheritance to

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Speaker 1: him upon his wife's death. It looked really bad. That's

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Speaker 1: a problem. That was not the case here with the Connors.

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Speaker 1: They've been married forty two years. He had been by

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Speaker 1: her side throughout her entire battle with cancer. But when

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Speaker 1: you pass a euthanasia bill and allow euthanasia or mercy killing,

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Speaker 1: that may not address the facts of each case. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a tough call, Joe Scott. Yeah, and you don't

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Speaker 1: know what people's motivations are. At the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: As an investigator, when we take a look at this,

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Speaker 1: we have to put it to the litmus test of

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Speaker 1: law relative to whatever the homicide statutes are in that

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Speaker 1: particular jurisdiction. At the end of the day, you've got

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Speaker 1: one person taking the life of another person. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that we as investigators are not without compassion, but

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Speaker 1: we have to stick to the law as we investigate

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Speaker 1: these cases and collect all of the evidence that we can,

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Speaker 1: and then at the end of the day, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be up to the prosecutor, the defense attorney, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately the judge and the jury to make that determination. Well,

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Speaker 1: the reality is just Scott, that police investigated Lori's death

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Speaker 1: for nine months before they ever arrested husband Kevin Connors.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you, do you believe there's more to

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Speaker 1: the story. What does that mean to you? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that at the end of the day, they're struggling,

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Speaker 1: they're wrestling with the idea of what statutory obligations are,

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Speaker 1: and they have to look at this very, very carefully.

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Speaker 1: Was there any underlying evidence that he was angry at her,

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Speaker 1: that there was some kind of you know, unresolved issues

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Speaker 1: with them, that he just wanted to take her life maliciously,

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Speaker 1: And they're having to and they look, these people know

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Speaker 1: they know what the public is going to say relative

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Speaker 1: to this. The line share of people are going to say, Look,

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Speaker 1: he ended her life because she was suffering, But we

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Speaker 1: still cannot escape what the law requires. So you believe

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Speaker 1: those nine months that were taken to study potential motives,

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Speaker 1: to study the background of the victim and her husband,

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Speaker 1: the state of their marital relationship, possibly even the poundage

428
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: required on the trigger pull to show that he pulled

429
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: the trigger, not her. I mean, in my mind, that

430
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: is a very intricate investigation. Yeah, yeah, it is Nancy.

431
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: And you know, you couple that with her physical condition,

432
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, she's debilitated, she's laying in bed. Look,

433
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: this lady is suffering from a myriad of problems, you know,

434
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: not the least of which is obviously metastatic carcinoma, and

435
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: she's also got lyme disease, Nancy, which makes this all

436
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: the more horrible. Can you imagine the suffering that's going

437
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: on with her? And she is in a weakened state,

438
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: and is does she have the presence of mind to

439
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: make this decision at the end of the day. Did

440
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: she say, go and get me the weapon, place it

441
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: in my hand. Cock the weapon for me, and I'll

442
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: pull the trigger. So does that make him the perpetrator

443
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: in this case because he went and put the weapon

444
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: in her hand? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sixty five

445
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: year old Kevin Connors of Westborough is a loving father, grandfather,

446
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: and husband of forty two years, and now he faces

447
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: a second degree manslaughter charge for allegedly helping his terminally

448
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: ill wife die by suicide. Mister Connors did what any

449
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: loving husband would do. Connors told police he held the

450
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: gun to his wife, Lorie's head, and she pulled the trigger.

451
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: On September sixth He turned himself in on Thursday, posted

452
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollars bail, and faced a judge on Friday.

453
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: Lorie Connors was diagnosed with late stage ovarian cancer, which

454
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: had spread to other parts of her body, and she

455
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: was also suffering from lyme disease, according to the arrest warrant,

456
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: and had been contemplating suicide for some time, even surviving

457
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: an attempt a month before she died, leaving behind many

458
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: suicide notes to family members. She was suffering horribly going

459
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: through chemotherapy and inconsiderable pain. She decided and took actions

460
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: to escape that pain. A legislative proposal to allow medical

461
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: aid in dying was introduced in Connecticut's General Assembly this spring,

462
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: but did not win approval. The ACLU has been pushing

463
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: for death with Dignity legislation for years. Incidents like this

464
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: showed the need for the legislation to really grapple with

465
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: this issue and come to some resolution. That's Fox sixty

466
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: one reporter Samara Abramson. You know, I want to go

467
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: back to Paula Natari, criminal defense attorney. You know, the

468
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: judge holds a lot of this in his or her hand.

469
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. I think that the defense,

470
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: if they've got the right judge, could go to the

471
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: judge before you have a jury, before one piece of

472
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: evidence is put up, and ask the judge for basically

473
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,479
Speaker 1: a summary judgment asking the judge to throw out the

474
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: case before it goes to the jury, and if the

475
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: judge is pro mercy killing, he or she may do it.

476
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: What do you think, Yeah, I think, well, not every

477
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: jurisdiction allows for that, but certainly in cases where the

478
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: defense and the prosecutors are sort of owned by, you know,

479
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: the laws. As the investigator said, just now that you know,

480
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: they do their investigations, but ultimately the law of the

481
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: law and they have to follow the law. But in

482
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: a case where you know, I think the parties are

483
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: equally troubled by the fact that this is compassion and

484
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: not bad intent, I think they can go for a

485
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: bench trial or some other option to show that his

486
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: intent was not an intent to kill, but it was compassion,

487
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: and they can reach some type of alternative. I mean, clearly,

488
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: where judges are compassionate, where prosecutors are compassionate, there's there's

489
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: a lot of different options for the parties, you know,

490
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: to diversion or this guy was a correctional officer on

491
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: top of it, so I mean, he dedicated his life

492
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: to law enforcement and now he's he's on the other side,

493
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: So there must be tremendous compassion for some type of

494
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: just results. Well, you're a few choices to judge would

495
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: have to take a look at the indictment and say,

496
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: right at the beginning the evidence that we know that

497
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: the charges themselves don't support a cause. Let me just

498
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: tell you a cause of action. That's not going to happen.

499
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: The judge is not going to try to change the

500
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: law from the bench. Here's another thing. As you pointed out,

501
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: a bench trial could happen where and what that means

502
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: is you don't strike a jury. You put it to

503
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: the judge, and the judge here's the case I've I've

504
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: done that many times. I never liked bench trials. I'd

505
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: rather take my chances with a jury than the whim

506
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: of one person. But that's a potential, that's an alternative.

507
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: Then you've got a directed verdict. A directed verdict is

508
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: when after the state puts now, this is a possibility

509
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: right here, after the state puts up the case, the

510
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: defense moves for a directed verdict. Before the defense puts

511
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: up a case, before it goes to a jury, and

512
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: says the state hasn't made out a case. I want

513
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: to direct verdict. The judge might rule that way. The

514
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: other alternative is a verdict, not with a directed verdict,

515
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: notwithstanding the evidence at the entire the end of the

516
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: entire case, before you give it to a jury. I mean,

517
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: there's several options the judge has, Although I think a

518
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: judge is going to let this go to a jury

519
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: trial and let it put it off on the jury.

520
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the way the system is set up. Yeah,

521
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I don't think this is the

522
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: kind of case where, I mean, the statute is so

523
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: specific where he's actually been charged with assisted suicide, which

524
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: is what happened. So I think the judge would be

525
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: hard pressed to just not to just decide and not

526
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: let this go to the jury. But let's remember, the

527
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: judge will have discretion if the jury does find him

528
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: guilty at sentencing. You know, I think that it's a

529
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: manned flor to charge, so the judge will have discretion

530
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,479
Speaker 1: to be lenient with him. Yeah, the judge can be lenient.

531
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: Take a little w TNH News eight, Mario Boone, it's

532
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: a story making national headlines. Kevin Connors charged with second

533
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: degree manslaughter. Kevin Connors is a kind, compassionate, loving father, grandfather,

534
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: husband of forty two years, yet he's now accused of

535
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: helping his cancer stricken wife, Loretta, take her own life.

536
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: Mister Connors did what any loving husband would do. He's

537
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: here today holding himself to be accountable for his actions.

538
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: Clad in a dark blue suit and burgundy tie, Connors

539
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: answering this serious charge in court Friday for the first time.

540
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: Last year, his wife was diagnosed and struggling with a terminal,

541
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: late stage cancer that was aggressive. She was suffering horribly,

542
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: going through chemotherapy and inconsiderable pain. Tell me us straight

543
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: out to you, Dave, maxineket a talk show host, tell

544
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: me the status of the case right now, right now

545
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: waiting on the court date to move forward. And again

546
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: he's been charged officially with manslaughter and we'll see where

547
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: it goes once he gets the court. Victim, Laurie Connors

548
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: is a mother of four. Where did her children stand

549
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: on this, Dave mac firmly on the side of their father.

550
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: They knew the relationship, and you alluded to the number

551
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: of notes that she wrote to her family members before

552
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: this took place. So they're not just sympathetic and empathetic

553
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: that they're firmly on the side of Dad. Take a

554
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 1: listen to wt in h News eight Mario Boone State

555
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: Police lawrence showed before she ended her life in September

556
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Missus Connors penned thirteen suicide notes and even

557
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: survived a previous suicide attempt. Investigators say mister Connors initially

558
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: claimed to be asleep when his wife shot herself, then

559
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: later admitted helping hold the gun to her head. He

560
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: insisted though she pull the trigger. We're confident at the

561
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: end of this process, justice will prevailed. Mister Potters will

562
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: being returned the loving Carabist family. Now, there have been

563
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: attempts over the years to legalize assistant suicide here in Connecticut. However,

564
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: those efforts have faced stiff opposition. But we do know

565
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: that after a nine month investigation, they charged him with manslaughter,

566
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: not murder. To me, that's very probative, you know when

567
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: you actually look at this case, Nancy, you mentioned it

568
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: a minute ago, you know, because of what it sets

569
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: up for the you know, you take this case and

570
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: you've got a loving relationship here where everybody is just sympathetic.

571
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: But it's always the other case, you know, of the

572
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: guy who's actually setting it all up to make it

573
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: look like that when in fact he's a scoundrel who

574
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: took his wife out. I mean, you know, the law

575
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: is the law for a reason. We wait as justice unfolds.

576
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,