1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:23,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Imagine there's a place in our world where the 2 00:00:23,356 --> 00:00:29,116 Speaker 1: known things go, a corridor of the mind, lined with shelves, 3 00:00:29,636 --> 00:00:35,316 Speaker 1: cluttered with clues, stocked with books. I haven't been here 4 00:00:35,316 --> 00:00:37,716 Speaker 1: in a while. I was looking for my copy of 5 00:00:37,756 --> 00:00:42,676 Speaker 1: Five Acres and Independence. It's gotta be somewhere. M I'm 6 00:00:42,756 --> 00:00:45,196 Speaker 1: glad to see my collection of eighteenth century almond axes 7 00:00:45,236 --> 00:00:50,676 Speaker 1: still here. Huh. Mid twentieth century political posters. Damn, it's 8 00:00:50,716 --> 00:00:56,156 Speaker 1: getting dusty though. The cupboard of board games weird. What's 9 00:00:56,156 --> 00:01:02,116 Speaker 1: the stack of twigs doing here? Jeez? Hello, good afternoon, ma'am. 10 00:01:02,236 --> 00:01:05,596 Speaker 1: Have you ever wished you own the sum of human knowledge? 11 00:01:05,836 --> 00:01:09,996 Speaker 1: The library that never closes? Oh? Are you have a library? 12 00:01:10,236 --> 00:01:12,956 Speaker 1: This is a library. This is the last archive. Didn't 13 00:01:12,956 --> 00:01:15,436 Speaker 1: you see the big breast sign outside? I don't get it. 14 00:01:15,756 --> 00:01:20,196 Speaker 1: What are you selling anyway? Twenty nine volumes, twenty eight thousand, 15 00:01:20,356 --> 00:01:24,836 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty pages, forty four million words of text. 16 00:01:25,236 --> 00:01:29,556 Speaker 1: When in doubt look it up. Oh okay, really sorry, thanks, 17 00:01:29,596 --> 00:01:33,676 Speaker 1: but it seems so cruel. But mister, I've already got 18 00:01:33,676 --> 00:01:37,556 Speaker 1: one right here. I've had it for a very long time. 19 00:01:38,236 --> 00:01:45,156 Speaker 1: Step across the threshold to my family's front door. In 20 00:01:45,316 --> 00:01:49,956 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, the day of the Encyclopedia arrived, I 21 00:01:50,116 --> 00:01:53,516 Speaker 1: was six up. Till then I had experienced only a 22 00:01:53,516 --> 00:01:58,516 Speaker 1: few exciting deliveries. Remember there was no Amazon then. Not 23 00:01:58,676 --> 00:02:01,356 Speaker 1: much got dropped off by truck, at least not at 24 00:02:01,396 --> 00:02:04,716 Speaker 1: our house. Once we got a new refrigerator, a truck 25 00:02:04,756 --> 00:02:06,796 Speaker 1: pulled up, two guys rolled it off on a little 26 00:02:06,916 --> 00:02:10,316 Speaker 1: rolling cart, wheeled it into our yellow kitchen. Mostly I 27 00:02:10,396 --> 00:02:12,716 Speaker 1: remember using the cardboard box that the fridge had come 28 00:02:12,756 --> 00:02:16,476 Speaker 1: in to build a fort That was pretty fantastic, But 29 00:02:16,556 --> 00:02:20,676 Speaker 1: the Encyclopedia was even better than the fridge. My mother 30 00:02:20,756 --> 00:02:24,076 Speaker 1: unpacked the volumes from brown boxes and lined them up 31 00:02:24,076 --> 00:02:27,476 Speaker 1: on a shelf in the living room. Twenty two big, fat, 32 00:02:27,716 --> 00:02:32,436 Speaker 1: important looking, very serious books that would look like leather binding, 33 00:02:32,556 --> 00:02:36,356 Speaker 1: cream colored and gold leaf edged pages like a Bible, 34 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:40,476 Speaker 1: color photographs, maps, and the thrill didn't end there. Every 35 00:02:40,556 --> 00:02:43,516 Speaker 1: year would get another shipment updates. You were supposed to 36 00:02:43,556 --> 00:02:46,196 Speaker 1: go back into the original volumes and insert new pages. 37 00:02:46,516 --> 00:02:49,236 Speaker 1: Sometimes the updates came with stickers they were supposed to 38 00:02:49,236 --> 00:02:52,876 Speaker 1: place over the outdated information. I really didn't have a 39 00:02:52,876 --> 00:02:56,756 Speaker 1: lot of books that Encyclopedia set really was the superstar 40 00:02:56,796 --> 00:03:00,436 Speaker 1: of our family library. I loved everything about it, the smell, 41 00:03:00,596 --> 00:03:03,836 Speaker 1: the fanciness, the way they lined up like a regiment 42 00:03:03,876 --> 00:03:07,276 Speaker 1: of soldiers, all there on a shelf in the living room, 43 00:03:07,556 --> 00:03:11,196 Speaker 1: next to our stack of board games Monopoly, sorry, Clue. 44 00:03:11,716 --> 00:03:15,316 Speaker 1: The encyclopedia. It was like this box with no bottom, 45 00:03:15,956 --> 00:03:22,996 Speaker 1: endless knowledge. Encyclopedias for decades were sold one by one, 46 00:03:23,356 --> 00:03:27,036 Speaker 1: door to door. Knowledge doesn't often travel in quite that 47 00:03:27,116 --> 00:03:31,276 Speaker 1: way anymore, hand selling a knock on the door. How 48 00:03:31,276 --> 00:03:34,436 Speaker 1: did that start, how did it work, why did it end? 49 00:03:35,236 --> 00:03:38,436 Speaker 1: It seemed important to understanding how we gain access to 50 00:03:38,516 --> 00:03:42,116 Speaker 1: knowledge today. So I asked a world class expert, a 51 00:03:42,196 --> 00:03:45,876 Speaker 1: wizard at the art of selling a walking library, and 52 00:03:45,996 --> 00:03:47,756 Speaker 1: I would just knock on their door, and I'd have 53 00:03:47,796 --> 00:03:50,036 Speaker 1: the little card with me and I'd say, Hi, this 54 00:03:50,156 --> 00:03:53,556 Speaker 1: is Myrin Taxman from Encyclopedia Britannica. You sent in for 55 00:03:53,596 --> 00:03:56,396 Speaker 1: some information, and I was in the area here, so 56 00:03:56,596 --> 00:03:58,956 Speaker 1: I thought I'd stop by and show you what we have. 57 00:03:59,716 --> 00:04:03,676 Speaker 1: Myron Taxman started selling encyclopedias in Chicago in the nineteen 58 00:04:03,796 --> 00:04:07,156 Speaker 1: sixties when he was twenty two. He's old encyclopedias for 59 00:04:07,276 --> 00:04:11,476 Speaker 1: nearly thirty years in Florida. Now, I bet a lot 60 00:04:11,516 --> 00:04:15,196 Speaker 1: of x Encyclopedia salesman lived there. But back in Chicago 61 00:04:15,236 --> 00:04:18,116 Speaker 1: in his heyday, Taxman loved his work. He adored it, 62 00:04:18,556 --> 00:04:21,356 Speaker 1: Myron Taxman. He's like a character in a short story 63 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:25,476 Speaker 1: by John Updyke or maybe Kurt Vaughnegut, Except you cannot 64 00:04:25,516 --> 00:04:28,436 Speaker 1: make this guy up. You know, if I had a 65 00:04:28,476 --> 00:04:31,516 Speaker 1: call Sunday night, why not? So you go out for 66 00:04:31,556 --> 00:04:35,756 Speaker 1: an hour and make as say, a taxman is so 67 00:04:35,796 --> 00:04:37,996 Speaker 1: good at selling that after talking to him for a while, 68 00:04:38,356 --> 00:04:41,036 Speaker 1: should confess that that's pretty sure. I'd buy just about 69 00:04:41,076 --> 00:04:43,956 Speaker 1: anything from this guy. But you can't sell something you 70 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:48,276 Speaker 1: don't believe him. And he believed in encyclopedias. He believed 71 00:04:48,396 --> 00:04:52,076 Speaker 1: in bringing the sum of human knowledge to American households, 72 00:04:52,436 --> 00:04:56,316 Speaker 1: door by door by door, we would bring out what 73 00:04:56,356 --> 00:04:59,836 Speaker 1: we call the giant broadside. Well, the giant broadside was 74 00:04:59,876 --> 00:05:03,596 Speaker 1: a life size picture of the whole full set of books. 75 00:05:03,876 --> 00:05:05,756 Speaker 1: And you threw that out right in front of him, 76 00:05:05,836 --> 00:05:08,636 Speaker 1: right under their feet, so they couldn't even move their feet. 77 00:05:09,916 --> 00:05:13,396 Speaker 1: I picture the giant broadside is a folded up cardboard display, 78 00:05:14,076 --> 00:05:16,956 Speaker 1: oh the size of a dining room table. The Texan 79 00:05:16,996 --> 00:05:19,716 Speaker 1: would unfold like an accordion and lay out on the 80 00:05:19,756 --> 00:05:25,036 Speaker 1: floor like a magic carpet. And then the real was 81 00:05:25,396 --> 00:05:30,356 Speaker 1: you brought out a nice leather bound, gold filled sample 82 00:05:30,396 --> 00:05:34,276 Speaker 1: of Britannica, and then you've did a little presentation with that. 83 00:05:34,436 --> 00:05:36,956 Speaker 1: You put it in their hands and so they could 84 00:05:36,956 --> 00:05:42,076 Speaker 1: hold it and play with it. That feeling it made 85 00:05:42,116 --> 00:05:44,996 Speaker 1: my mouth water just hearing Taxman talk about the feeling 86 00:05:45,036 --> 00:05:48,316 Speaker 1: of holding that sum of human knowledge in your hand, 87 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:54,316 Speaker 1: playing with it. I want that feeling back. Welcome to 88 00:05:54,356 --> 00:05:57,076 Speaker 1: the third season of The Last Archive. The show about 89 00:05:57,076 --> 00:05:59,396 Speaker 1: how we know what we know and why it seems 90 00:05:59,476 --> 00:06:02,156 Speaker 1: lately is if we don't know anything at all. I'm 91 00:06:02,236 --> 00:06:05,596 Speaker 1: Jill Lapoor. The first season of The Last Archive was 92 00:06:05,636 --> 00:06:09,356 Speaker 1: a who Done It? Who Killed truth? I would back 93 00:06:09,396 --> 00:06:11,956 Speaker 1: over the last century to look at forces that undermine 94 00:06:12,036 --> 00:06:14,876 Speaker 1: people's ability to get the facts and to get to 95 00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:18,396 Speaker 1: the bottom of things. The second season uncovered the history 96 00:06:18,436 --> 00:06:23,236 Speaker 1: of doubt, from rational skepticism to mindless conspiracy theories. I 97 00:06:23,316 --> 00:06:27,756 Speaker 1: met frauds and hucksters and fakes people peddling nonsense. So 98 00:06:27,876 --> 00:06:30,756 Speaker 1: for two seasons, the first two years of the Pandemic 99 00:06:30,796 --> 00:06:32,876 Speaker 1: mind You, I told a lot of stories about the 100 00:06:32,876 --> 00:06:36,116 Speaker 1: origins of a lot of problems that got to be 101 00:06:36,116 --> 00:06:40,516 Speaker 1: a little depressing. This season is the antidote my survey 102 00:06:40,516 --> 00:06:45,116 Speaker 1: of solutions. This season is all about common knowledge, common 103 00:06:45,156 --> 00:06:48,956 Speaker 1: in the sense of ordinary, ordinary knowledge held by ordinary people, 104 00:06:49,436 --> 00:06:52,516 Speaker 1: ordinary things that people agree on, and common in the 105 00:06:52,556 --> 00:06:57,716 Speaker 1: sense of communal shared held in community as a public good. 106 00:06:58,476 --> 00:07:01,236 Speaker 1: Is that kind of knowledge still possible? Knowledge that we 107 00:07:01,316 --> 00:07:04,716 Speaker 1: all have, knowledge that we all agree upon. That feeling 108 00:07:04,756 --> 00:07:12,396 Speaker 1: of holding an encyclopedia in your hands, it's priceless. Encyclopedias 109 00:07:12,436 --> 00:07:16,076 Speaker 1: are very old. They've been around for thousands of years. 110 00:07:16,436 --> 00:07:19,156 Speaker 1: For all but the last few centuries. They existed only 111 00:07:19,156 --> 00:07:22,796 Speaker 1: in manuscript, copied by hand, and they were for scholars, 112 00:07:22,836 --> 00:07:28,116 Speaker 1: a tiny number of philosophers. Encyclopedia Britannica had been first 113 00:07:28,116 --> 00:07:31,996 Speaker 1: published in Scotland in seventeen sixty eight, a product of 114 00:07:31,996 --> 00:07:35,956 Speaker 1: the Enlightenment, with its faith in education and reason and 115 00:07:36,036 --> 00:07:38,596 Speaker 1: the diffusion of knowledge. I think of all the other 116 00:07:38,636 --> 00:07:43,516 Speaker 1: projects that got started then, libraries, public schools, self government. 117 00:07:43,876 --> 00:07:48,036 Speaker 1: All these years later, it's still called Encyclopedia Britannica, but 118 00:07:48,156 --> 00:07:52,716 Speaker 1: really it ought to be called Encyclopedia Americana. By the 119 00:07:52,836 --> 00:07:55,236 Speaker 1: end of the nineteenth century. Most of its sales were 120 00:07:55,236 --> 00:07:59,196 Speaker 1: coming from the United States, where striving self made Americans 121 00:07:59,756 --> 00:08:05,156 Speaker 1: really loved its democratic ethos knowledge for all. Eventually the 122 00:08:05,196 --> 00:08:08,436 Speaker 1: company itself moved to the US. It's one thing to 123 00:08:08,516 --> 00:08:12,116 Speaker 1: compile knowledge, it's another to spread it. To take that 124 00:08:12,236 --> 00:08:15,916 Speaker 1: knowledge stored up in universities and make it common, make 125 00:08:15,956 --> 00:08:19,596 Speaker 1: it ordinary. Britannica came up with a very American way 126 00:08:19,716 --> 00:08:23,956 Speaker 1: of diffusing knowledge, peddling it house by house. This is 127 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:27,116 Speaker 1: the part that really fascinates me. Even before most Americans 128 00:08:27,116 --> 00:08:30,196 Speaker 1: had telephones or electricity, you could get in a way 129 00:08:30,516 --> 00:08:35,196 Speaker 1: hooked up to this huge network of information encyclopedia companies. 130 00:08:35,196 --> 00:08:38,116 Speaker 1: Though they didn't invent this method of door to door sales, 131 00:08:38,436 --> 00:08:43,876 Speaker 1: Bible salesman did. The Bible runs as level as we 132 00:08:43,996 --> 00:08:47,756 Speaker 1: have three plans on it cash cod and also they 133 00:08:47,796 --> 00:08:50,996 Speaker 1: have a little Catholic on the plan. Which parent plan 134 00:08:51,076 --> 00:08:57,356 Speaker 1: would be the best varu the ABSC. It was awfully 135 00:08:57,356 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 1: easy for selling encyclopedias to fit right into this niche 136 00:09:00,876 --> 00:09:05,516 Speaker 1: evangelical capitalism. In the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, Britannica 137 00:09:05,636 --> 00:09:08,156 Speaker 1: was owned by Sears Roebuck, the department store company, with 138 00:09:08,196 --> 00:09:12,036 Speaker 1: a giant mail order catalog seers trained a salesforce that 139 00:09:12,036 --> 00:09:14,916 Speaker 1: would grow to more than two thousand strong to sell 140 00:09:14,996 --> 00:09:20,996 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia's door to door. The house to house salesman symbolizes 141 00:09:21,036 --> 00:09:24,236 Speaker 1: in a way the function evolve salesman, which is to 142 00:09:24,276 --> 00:09:27,276 Speaker 1: bring good or servidus of the attention of the consumer 143 00:09:27,836 --> 00:09:32,556 Speaker 1: and to help the consumer buy. Like Bible salesman, Britannica 144 00:09:32,596 --> 00:09:36,156 Speaker 1: salesman work from scripts. Mostly they learned these scripts from 145 00:09:36,196 --> 00:09:41,076 Speaker 1: each other and from the best salesman. There's no plays 146 00:09:41,116 --> 00:09:44,036 Speaker 1: and gentleman to make sure things are rolling, will rolling. 147 00:09:45,436 --> 00:09:48,196 Speaker 1: They learned those scripts from Myron Taxman. That's him in 148 00:09:48,236 --> 00:09:51,596 Speaker 1: an old Britannica training video. This is going to be 149 00:09:51,676 --> 00:09:58,316 Speaker 1: air Advanced Door Approach clinic for people working leads to 150 00:09:58,356 --> 00:10:01,796 Speaker 1: start out with giving the basic door approach, which is 151 00:10:01,836 --> 00:10:04,876 Speaker 1: the company door approach. Is everybody here know the company 152 00:10:04,916 --> 00:10:10,196 Speaker 1: door approach? I'm sure you do. Encyclopedia salesman, like Bible salesman, 153 00:10:10,316 --> 00:10:13,276 Speaker 1: knocked on the doors of families. They've gotten leads on. 154 00:10:13,676 --> 00:10:16,316 Speaker 1: A lead is the name or addresser phone number of 155 00:10:16,396 --> 00:10:19,236 Speaker 1: someone who might likely buy the stuff you're selling. Bible 156 00:10:19,236 --> 00:10:23,356 Speaker 1: salesman got their leads from church attendance lists. Britannica generated 157 00:10:23,396 --> 00:10:27,876 Speaker 1: its leads from places like newspaper contests. One place Britannica 158 00:10:27,956 --> 00:10:30,916 Speaker 1: generated leads was from a radio quiz show. I mean, 159 00:10:31,196 --> 00:10:33,436 Speaker 1: think about what better way to find nerds than to 160 00:10:33,436 --> 00:10:38,916 Speaker 1: invite people to submit questions to a quiz show, Wake 161 00:10:38,996 --> 00:10:42,236 Speaker 1: Up America trying to bombard the board of full experts 162 00:10:42,316 --> 00:10:45,156 Speaker 1: with the toughest question who can think of? That show 163 00:10:45,236 --> 00:10:48,996 Speaker 1: was called Information Please, and it was broadcast nationally from 164 00:10:49,116 --> 00:10:52,036 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight to nineteen fifty one. And if your 165 00:10:52,116 --> 00:10:55,156 Speaker 1: question stumps are all of experts, you'll receive a complete 166 00:10:55,156 --> 00:10:58,836 Speaker 1: twenty four volume set of the Encyclopedia Britannica. The show's 167 00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:02,276 Speaker 1: title information Please was a reference to what you'd say 168 00:11:02,316 --> 00:11:04,356 Speaker 1: back in the day when you picked up the telephone 169 00:11:04,396 --> 00:11:07,676 Speaker 1: and wanted information. You could ask the operator for someone's 170 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:11,636 Speaker 1: phone number, or the weather were the capital of Botswana? 171 00:11:11,716 --> 00:11:15,836 Speaker 1: Who was a very old version of Siri, a secular oracle. Anyway, 172 00:11:16,076 --> 00:11:19,636 Speaker 1: Information please. The radio show it was a blast Na 173 00:11:19,756 --> 00:11:23,756 Speaker 1: me I present our master of ceremonies, mister Clifton Clifton Fataman. 174 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:26,236 Speaker 1: The quiz show's host was the books editor of the 175 00:11:26,236 --> 00:11:30,836 Speaker 1: New Yorker He was also on the board of Encyclopedia Britannica. Gentleman, 176 00:11:31,076 --> 00:11:34,956 Speaker 1: we're all I'm beginning with the following creston, Where does 177 00:11:35,036 --> 00:11:40,676 Speaker 1: this line occur? Hey, nonny nonny? Hey none in Shakespeare? 178 00:11:40,876 --> 00:11:45,796 Speaker 1: I suppose it weren't. Then I lose. The premise of 179 00:11:45,836 --> 00:11:48,916 Speaker 1: the radio quiz show was if you submitted that question 180 00:11:49,076 --> 00:11:51,396 Speaker 1: and no one on the panel answered it correctly, if 181 00:11:51,436 --> 00:11:55,876 Speaker 1: you stumped the experts, you would get a free Encyclopedia Britannica. 182 00:11:55,996 --> 00:11:58,836 Speaker 1: But there was also a sneaky thing going on, because 183 00:11:58,956 --> 00:12:01,956 Speaker 1: if you submitted a question and it never even got asked, 184 00:12:02,356 --> 00:12:04,836 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that what you got was that your 185 00:12:04,876 --> 00:12:07,836 Speaker 1: name would be sent to Encyclopedia Britannica and would be 186 00:12:07,876 --> 00:12:10,676 Speaker 1: given to one of its salesmen as a lead. He'd 187 00:12:10,676 --> 00:12:15,476 Speaker 1: be given to a salesman like Myron Taxman. Hi, Myron 188 00:12:15,556 --> 00:12:19,876 Speaker 1: Taxman from Encyclopedia Britannica. Here's my business card. Someone in 189 00:12:19,996 --> 00:12:23,076 Speaker 1: your family indicated an interest in our products, and I 190 00:12:23,316 --> 00:12:25,716 Speaker 1: stopped by to go over that with you. May I 191 00:12:25,756 --> 00:12:29,876 Speaker 1: step in, As I said, Myron Taxman was not your 192 00:12:29,916 --> 00:12:34,036 Speaker 1: average salesman. He didn't just hook me, He hooked everybody. 193 00:12:34,436 --> 00:12:37,716 Speaker 1: He was a star and Britannica knew it. That's why 194 00:12:37,756 --> 00:12:41,956 Speaker 1: they used him to train other salesman. Myron Taxman is 195 00:12:41,996 --> 00:12:46,156 Speaker 1: a family man. He's on the go, Andie cares about 196 00:12:46,196 --> 00:12:49,036 Speaker 1: other families like the hus and I want a lot 197 00:12:49,036 --> 00:12:51,876 Speaker 1: of awards for top salesman for the month and this 198 00:12:52,036 --> 00:12:54,596 Speaker 1: and that. So I didn't really have to fight for 199 00:12:54,636 --> 00:12:57,716 Speaker 1: the leads. They wanted to give me the leads and 200 00:12:58,156 --> 00:13:00,956 Speaker 1: give me as a misnomer because you had to buy 201 00:13:01,036 --> 00:13:03,596 Speaker 1: these leads. So a lot of the leads were like 202 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:07,596 Speaker 1: ten dollars a lead. So who's getting paid for the leads? 203 00:13:07,596 --> 00:13:12,596 Speaker 1: Britannica to help subsidize their advertising to make the leads. 204 00:13:12,956 --> 00:13:15,356 Speaker 1: So then was it a little like Glengarry glen Ross, 205 00:13:15,436 --> 00:13:17,796 Speaker 1: like fighting over the good leads? If you don't know 206 00:13:17,836 --> 00:13:21,036 Speaker 1: about it. Glengarry glen Ross is a play David Mant 207 00:13:21,036 --> 00:13:23,796 Speaker 1: wrote about real estate salesman. He was later made into 208 00:13:23,796 --> 00:13:29,116 Speaker 1: a movie starring a very young Alec Baldwin. Absolutely when 209 00:13:29,156 --> 00:13:33,716 Speaker 1: I saw that, when I saw Glen glen Ross, I said, wow, 210 00:13:33,796 --> 00:13:37,996 Speaker 1: this is us. The leads are weak leads A week? 211 00:13:38,436 --> 00:13:41,316 Speaker 1: You a week? Okay, I'm guessing there was less swearing. 212 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:46,116 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Britannica. But still a leads, a lead Taxman. He'd 213 00:13:46,116 --> 00:13:48,996 Speaker 1: get the leads, buy the leads, and then he'd go out. 214 00:13:49,516 --> 00:13:51,196 Speaker 1: He still had to find a way to make it 215 00:13:51,276 --> 00:13:53,876 Speaker 1: in the door though. In that training video he made 216 00:13:53,876 --> 00:13:56,996 Speaker 1: he laid out some rules of the road. Number one, 217 00:13:58,276 --> 00:14:01,356 Speaker 1: don't make the mistake of giving a price in the doorway. 218 00:14:01,516 --> 00:14:05,396 Speaker 1: Don't do it. I'd rather walk away. Number two, don't 219 00:14:05,436 --> 00:14:08,636 Speaker 1: make a one legged pitch. It's death in our business. 220 00:14:08,836 --> 00:14:10,876 Speaker 1: Don't pitch. The wife would out the husband, or the 221 00:14:10,956 --> 00:14:12,996 Speaker 1: husband would have the wife the full or the house 222 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:16,396 Speaker 1: the better. Most of the selling happened, Taxman said when 223 00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:20,236 Speaker 1: he first stepped through that doorway, across that threshold and 224 00:14:20,356 --> 00:14:22,836 Speaker 1: gave the warm up. But it was good if you 225 00:14:22,916 --> 00:14:25,476 Speaker 1: had the children there, because then you could get them 226 00:14:25,516 --> 00:14:30,436 Speaker 1: involved and actually they would help with the sale. Generally speaking, 227 00:14:30,476 --> 00:14:33,076 Speaker 1: it was the wife that wanted the books more than anyone, 228 00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: because she'd be the one that would have to schlept 229 00:14:35,276 --> 00:14:37,996 Speaker 1: the kids to the library all the time. And she know, 230 00:14:38,356 --> 00:14:40,036 Speaker 1: now I don't have to go to the library. I have, 231 00:14:40,276 --> 00:14:43,596 Speaker 1: you know, the encyclopedias here. When Taxman had gathered the 232 00:14:43,596 --> 00:14:46,116 Speaker 1: whole family together, not just the husband and the wife, 233 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:48,756 Speaker 1: but the kids too. He'd tell everyone where to sit. 234 00:14:49,316 --> 00:14:51,596 Speaker 1: He didn't like sitting on the couch. That was too comfy, 235 00:14:52,036 --> 00:14:55,396 Speaker 1: too likely people would stop paying attention. The kitchen table 236 00:14:55,516 --> 00:14:58,756 Speaker 1: was better. People were more alert, ready to do business. 237 00:14:59,236 --> 00:15:02,676 Speaker 1: And then after we sat down, I would start really 238 00:15:02,796 --> 00:15:06,116 Speaker 1: schmoozing with them. Oh, you have such a lovely house. 239 00:15:06,716 --> 00:15:09,236 Speaker 1: I was always a detective when I walked in the door, 240 00:15:09,676 --> 00:15:11,996 Speaker 1: and I would look around to see if I saw 241 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:15,676 Speaker 1: a trophy at golf trophy or pictures that they had 242 00:15:15,756 --> 00:15:20,836 Speaker 1: kids playing football, and that really, to me made the sale. 243 00:15:21,996 --> 00:15:25,036 Speaker 1: There were years in the United States when encyclopedias sold 244 00:15:25,116 --> 00:15:28,516 Speaker 1: like Honestly, you could sort of say they sold like encyclopedias, 245 00:15:28,956 --> 00:15:32,836 Speaker 1: because that and not hotcakes, was the measure. Owning a 246 00:15:32,876 --> 00:15:35,956 Speaker 1: Bible was a mark of faith, a testament. Owning a 247 00:15:35,996 --> 00:15:39,276 Speaker 1: set of encyclopedias became a mark of aspiring to belong 248 00:15:39,356 --> 00:15:42,676 Speaker 1: to a community of knowledge, a democracy of knowledge. But 249 00:15:42,756 --> 00:15:44,836 Speaker 1: by the end of the nineteen sixties, the door to 250 00:15:44,876 --> 00:15:48,476 Speaker 1: door encyclopedia salesman had become a punchline. You can hear 251 00:15:48,476 --> 00:15:52,676 Speaker 1: exactly how in this Monty Python sketch from nineteen sixty nine. 252 00:15:53,356 --> 00:15:56,796 Speaker 1: I want to come in and steal a few things. Madam, 253 00:15:56,836 --> 00:16:00,076 Speaker 1: Are you an incertelopedia salesman? No, madam, I'm a burglar 254 00:16:00,276 --> 00:16:03,876 Speaker 1: burglar people, I think you're an incertetopedia salesman. Oh, I'm 255 00:16:03,876 --> 00:16:05,916 Speaker 1: not open to all. Let me in. Please, I'll let 256 00:16:05,916 --> 00:16:08,916 Speaker 1: you in your solm me instetpedias. I won't. When i'm all, 257 00:16:08,956 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 1: just come in Ransacklefla honestly probably shops none at all. All. Right, 258 00:16:18,236 --> 00:16:20,516 Speaker 1: back in the US, it was getting to be no joke. 259 00:16:21,156 --> 00:16:24,236 Speaker 1: Sales methods got so aggressive that in nineteen seventy two, 260 00:16:24,236 --> 00:16:28,796 Speaker 1: the Federal Trade Commission intervened, ordering Britannica to stop deceptive 261 00:16:28,796 --> 00:16:32,916 Speaker 1: and aggressive sales tactics. Taxman told me this wasn't really fair, 262 00:16:32,996 --> 00:16:35,836 Speaker 1: that Britannica was being punished for the sneaky methods of 263 00:16:35,876 --> 00:16:39,196 Speaker 1: other companies. And I believed him, But then again, I 264 00:16:39,236 --> 00:16:41,916 Speaker 1: am a sucker from iron Taxman, and so we are 265 00:16:41,956 --> 00:16:44,716 Speaker 1: a lot of other people. After he'd got the family 266 00:16:44,716 --> 00:16:47,996 Speaker 1: sitting down at that kitchen table, not the couch, after 267 00:16:47,996 --> 00:16:50,996 Speaker 1: he'd done a schmoozing about their golf game, the kid's 268 00:16:51,076 --> 00:16:54,876 Speaker 1: hockey team, after all the warming up was done, he'd 269 00:16:54,876 --> 00:16:57,436 Speaker 1: begin to close in on the deal. When do you 270 00:16:57,596 --> 00:17:01,716 Speaker 1: know that you've you've got him? It's something you know, 271 00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:05,276 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of an innate feeling when they start 272 00:17:05,876 --> 00:17:08,116 Speaker 1: looking at one another and oh, what do you think 273 00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:13,276 Speaker 1: hattie as looked very nice? And they'd write the check 274 00:17:13,676 --> 00:17:17,196 Speaker 1: right there for the first installment fifty dollars to start. 275 00:17:17,716 --> 00:17:22,316 Speaker 1: Then they'd have to pay monthly with interest. Predatory, yes, 276 00:17:22,916 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 1: but still an encyclopedia isn't say, a stationary bicycle or 277 00:17:27,116 --> 00:17:29,716 Speaker 1: some other useless thing you might get swindled into buying. 278 00:17:30,236 --> 00:17:32,356 Speaker 1: People who grew up with these books talk about how 279 00:17:32,356 --> 00:17:37,316 Speaker 1: the encyclopedia changed their lives, like comedian Steve Harvey, Well, mommy, 280 00:17:37,396 --> 00:17:40,396 Speaker 1: I finally got the money together help us to educate ourselves. 281 00:17:40,436 --> 00:17:46,076 Speaker 1: They bought an encyclopedia set Britannica, and everything you wanted 282 00:17:46,116 --> 00:17:48,796 Speaker 1: to know was in that encyclopedia. And that's all you 283 00:17:48,836 --> 00:17:51,596 Speaker 1: can know. If you want to look up something about elephant, 284 00:17:51,796 --> 00:17:54,516 Speaker 1: and they had two pages on elephants, that was what 285 00:17:54,596 --> 00:17:58,436 Speaker 1: you knew about the elephant. Harvey's not the only one. 286 00:17:58,836 --> 00:18:02,716 Speaker 1: Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor had a thing for encyclopedias. 287 00:18:03,156 --> 00:18:05,436 Speaker 1: She grew up in the Bronx Her parents had moved 288 00:18:05,436 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 1: there from Puerto Rico after her father died when she 289 00:18:08,556 --> 00:18:11,596 Speaker 1: was nine years years old. Her mother, Selena, who worked 290 00:18:11,596 --> 00:18:16,836 Speaker 1: six days a week, saved up for Britannica the most 291 00:18:16,876 --> 00:18:21,796 Speaker 1: beautiful thing in the laurel. Now the encyclopedius today are online. 292 00:18:22,076 --> 00:18:25,516 Speaker 1: They're not selling them as books anymore. And I actually 293 00:18:25,916 --> 00:18:29,796 Speaker 1: know there's some value sometimes to online reading, and I 294 00:18:29,876 --> 00:18:33,636 Speaker 1: kind of like you, but I love the encyclopedias and 295 00:18:33,756 --> 00:18:36,036 Speaker 1: things that I could feel in my hands and turn 296 00:18:36,156 --> 00:18:39,636 Speaker 1: the pages, so to Mayor says, Britannica more or less 297 00:18:39,676 --> 00:18:42,996 Speaker 1: saved her life, opened the door to a world of knowledge. 298 00:18:43,876 --> 00:18:47,676 Speaker 1: Myron Taxman believed that same thing in my heart. I 299 00:18:47,876 --> 00:18:50,636 Speaker 1: know anyone that would buy these books, even if it 300 00:18:50,756 --> 00:18:53,636 Speaker 1: just melt, made them feel better that they had this 301 00:18:53,916 --> 00:18:56,516 Speaker 1: beautiful set of books on the shelf, and that was 302 00:18:56,556 --> 00:18:59,316 Speaker 1: one source you could go to that you could find 303 00:18:59,356 --> 00:19:01,916 Speaker 1: out about everything and anything that happened in the world. 304 00:19:02,396 --> 00:19:05,956 Speaker 1: Britannica really was a kind of common knowledge. Knock knock, 305 00:19:06,076 --> 00:19:11,316 Speaker 1: it's a library. Tell me about caterpillars, capillaries, the Caspian Sea. 306 00:19:11,516 --> 00:19:17,276 Speaker 1: It's all there, established, verifiable, illustrated, a library that had 307 00:19:17,276 --> 00:19:20,876 Speaker 1: taken years and years and thousands of people to create 308 00:19:20,916 --> 00:19:26,876 Speaker 1: and produce. Look up influenza and you'll find reliable, accurate information. 309 00:19:27,836 --> 00:19:30,316 Speaker 1: Think about how hard it is now to find reliable 310 00:19:30,396 --> 00:19:33,636 Speaker 1: and accurate information on the Internet, or in the thousands 311 00:19:33,676 --> 00:19:36,956 Speaker 1: of years before the encyclopedia. Think of all the rumors 312 00:19:36,956 --> 00:19:41,956 Speaker 1: and exaggerations and ignorance and misunderstanding and misinformation that characterized 313 00:19:42,036 --> 00:19:47,796 Speaker 1: human communication across time and distance. I mean, Britannica was 314 00:19:47,836 --> 00:19:50,356 Speaker 1: not a perfect solution by any means. For one thing, 315 00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:55,276 Speaker 1: it wasn't free. Also, it wasn't public. Britannica commercialized and 316 00:19:55,356 --> 00:19:58,636 Speaker 1: privatized a body of knowledge. Why bother to go to 317 00:19:58,676 --> 00:20:01,356 Speaker 1: your local public library when you could own these books 318 00:20:01,356 --> 00:20:05,556 Speaker 1: in your own home. Also, there was something missing. More 319 00:20:05,596 --> 00:20:21,916 Speaker 1: on that after the break. My family never owned Encyclopedia Britannica. 320 00:20:22,036 --> 00:20:25,516 Speaker 1: They're too expensive. We owned instead one of its many cheaper, 321 00:20:25,636 --> 00:20:30,396 Speaker 1: down market competitors, an encyclopedia set called World Book. My 322 00:20:30,516 --> 00:20:33,156 Speaker 1: mother saved up for our World Book Encyclopedia set by 323 00:20:33,156 --> 00:20:36,276 Speaker 1: collecting SNH Green stamps, those little coupons you got whenever 324 00:20:36,316 --> 00:20:39,036 Speaker 1: you bought gas or groceries. They worked like cash. You 325 00:20:39,076 --> 00:20:41,356 Speaker 1: could trade them in to buy stuff. Of course, you 326 00:20:41,476 --> 00:20:43,756 Speaker 1: know that you can get everything from color television to 327 00:20:43,796 --> 00:20:47,516 Speaker 1: motor boats with green stamps. But now, well, just look 328 00:20:47,516 --> 00:20:50,356 Speaker 1: at this. You could buy Britannica with green stamps too, 329 00:20:50,396 --> 00:20:53,316 Speaker 1: but you needed a lot more stamps. Those World Book 330 00:20:53,356 --> 00:20:56,636 Speaker 1: encyclopedias were about the nicest thing we owned, but my 331 00:20:56,716 --> 00:20:58,876 Speaker 1: mother didn't trust us with them. They had to stay 332 00:20:58,876 --> 00:21:01,396 Speaker 1: in the living room or on a special shelf. None 333 00:21:01,396 --> 00:21:03,036 Speaker 1: of us kids was ever allowed to take them into 334 00:21:03,036 --> 00:21:05,756 Speaker 1: our bedrooms. Our mother was worried we lose them, or 335 00:21:05,756 --> 00:21:07,956 Speaker 1: I guess maybe tear them, or I don't know actually 336 00:21:07,996 --> 00:21:10,756 Speaker 1: what you're so worried about out But you can hear 337 00:21:10,796 --> 00:21:14,716 Speaker 1: any entries. How different World Book was from Britannica, who 338 00:21:14,716 --> 00:21:18,356 Speaker 1: was geared more towards kids than to college professors. Consider 339 00:21:18,516 --> 00:21:22,996 Speaker 1: just for one example, Britannica's entry for the topic of needles. 340 00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:29,036 Speaker 1: The raw material of needle manufacture consists of Sheffield crucible 341 00:21:29,156 --> 00:21:34,476 Speaker 1: steel drawn down into wire of suitable gauge. World Book's entry, 342 00:21:34,556 --> 00:21:37,876 Speaker 1: written more for kids, starts this way. The next time 343 00:21:37,956 --> 00:21:40,836 Speaker 1: you pick up a sewing needle, remember that this little 344 00:21:40,836 --> 00:21:43,196 Speaker 1: piece of steel with a fine point at one end 345 00:21:43,436 --> 00:21:46,196 Speaker 1: and an eye at the other has passed through the 346 00:21:46,276 --> 00:21:51,196 Speaker 1: hands of seventy workmen and undergone twenty two processes in 347 00:21:51,276 --> 00:21:56,556 Speaker 1: its Manufacture World book was smart to target kids. Britannica, 348 00:21:56,596 --> 00:21:59,836 Speaker 1: with its lofty style and dense prose, was at risk 349 00:21:59,916 --> 00:22:02,756 Speaker 1: of being left in the dust. But Britannica had a 350 00:22:02,796 --> 00:22:08,556 Speaker 1: secret weapon for reaching kids. Britannica made educational films in 351 00:22:08,596 --> 00:22:12,436 Speaker 1: the nineties sixties. In nineteen seventies, Thomas G. Smith worked 352 00:22:12,716 --> 00:22:16,916 Speaker 1: for Encyclopedia Britannica Films, which was really starting to take off. 353 00:22:17,156 --> 00:22:21,876 Speaker 1: What happened was it In nineteen fifty seven Sputnik was launched, 354 00:22:22,036 --> 00:22:26,476 Speaker 1: and America was very embarrassed and we felt we would 355 00:22:26,516 --> 00:22:34,876 Speaker 1: had fallen far behind the Soviets. The day Soviet scientists 356 00:22:34,956 --> 00:22:38,476 Speaker 1: jauntily drop kicked the first Sputnik around the world, the 357 00:22:38,556 --> 00:22:43,276 Speaker 1: average American was shocked, bewildered, and was entful. Sputnik is 358 00:22:43,316 --> 00:22:46,916 Speaker 1: a product of higher education, of instructors who teach much 359 00:22:46,916 --> 00:22:49,916 Speaker 1: of the physics and mathematics in high school that we 360 00:22:50,036 --> 00:22:54,516 Speaker 1: teach in colleague. After Sputnik, Congress passed the National Defense 361 00:22:54,716 --> 00:22:58,036 Speaker 1: Education Act. It wanted American children to catch up to 362 00:22:58,116 --> 00:23:01,156 Speaker 1: close any knowledge gaps between the US and the Soviets. 363 00:23:01,796 --> 00:23:03,516 Speaker 1: All of a sudden there was tons of money for 364 00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:08,676 Speaker 1: educational films. Thomas Smith again. Encyclopedia Britanica films, which are 365 00:23:08,796 --> 00:23:12,916 Speaker 1: sort of been a small company, suddenly got this big surgeons. 366 00:23:12,996 --> 00:23:16,396 Speaker 1: It could practically sell the films for nothing. I mean, 367 00:23:16,956 --> 00:23:19,396 Speaker 1: the schools would just buy them and the photo government 368 00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:21,636 Speaker 1: would paid for it. So suddenly they were producing a 369 00:23:21,676 --> 00:23:24,116 Speaker 1: lot of films. It was kind of like the Myron 370 00:23:24,236 --> 00:23:27,596 Speaker 1: Taxman pitch, but on a jumbo scale and fueled by 371 00:23:27,636 --> 00:23:30,356 Speaker 1: the anxiety of the Cold War. Don't want your children 372 00:23:30,436 --> 00:23:34,756 Speaker 1: to fall behind. Don't just buy encyclopedias, fund the films. 373 00:23:35,796 --> 00:23:39,716 Speaker 1: Our survival may depend on degrees and graduates. We are 374 00:23:39,756 --> 00:23:44,676 Speaker 1: not now equipped to produce. Unlike written Encyclopedia entries, Britannica's 375 00:23:44,676 --> 00:23:47,836 Speaker 1: films spoke to kids on a kid level. Smith was 376 00:23:47,876 --> 00:23:50,196 Speaker 1: perfect for this job because he was learning to make 377 00:23:50,236 --> 00:23:52,156 Speaker 1: films in real time as he went, and because he 378 00:23:52,196 --> 00:23:55,276 Speaker 1: was young, not much older than his audience. When I 379 00:23:55,316 --> 00:24:00,076 Speaker 1: first began, I was very inexperienced. I was in my 380 00:24:00,156 --> 00:24:05,476 Speaker 1: early twenties, and I grew with experience longer I was there, 381 00:24:05,996 --> 00:24:09,596 Speaker 1: and then I joined them as a writer, and I 382 00:24:09,636 --> 00:24:13,596 Speaker 1: wrote my first film for them, and they had nobody 383 00:24:13,636 --> 00:24:15,956 Speaker 1: to produce it. So as I started working on and 384 00:24:16,276 --> 00:24:19,396 Speaker 1: that was food from the Sun. With a special camera, 385 00:24:19,516 --> 00:24:22,156 Speaker 1: we can see that this beansprout must push through the 386 00:24:22,236 --> 00:24:25,116 Speaker 1: soil to grow. Smith shot part of the film in 387 00:24:25,116 --> 00:24:27,716 Speaker 1: his basement. You don't learn all that much from these movies. 388 00:24:27,836 --> 00:24:30,476 Speaker 1: Nothing that would directly help you beat Soviet kids at math? 389 00:24:30,996 --> 00:24:33,476 Speaker 1: Would you get? I think is a kind of curiosity 390 00:24:33,516 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 1: about the world. How does that thing work? Why is 391 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:40,316 Speaker 1: it built that way? Where did this idea come from? 392 00:24:40,876 --> 00:24:44,796 Speaker 1: A good teacher? Can you use a film to promote discussion? 393 00:24:46,076 --> 00:24:49,236 Speaker 1: That's the way they should be used. And see the film, 394 00:24:49,316 --> 00:24:51,276 Speaker 1: then you talk about the subject. At least that's what 395 00:24:51,316 --> 00:24:52,996 Speaker 1: we hoped. I think there were some teachers would just 396 00:24:53,036 --> 00:24:54,436 Speaker 1: run the film and go out and have a smoke. 397 00:24:56,236 --> 00:25:01,396 Speaker 1: I had those teachers. So you let me just say 398 00:25:01,596 --> 00:25:04,196 Speaker 1: thank you to every teacher who showed me a film 399 00:25:04,476 --> 00:25:06,276 Speaker 1: or a film strip while they went out for a 400 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:08,756 Speaker 1: smoke or a cup of coffee or any kind of 401 00:25:08,756 --> 00:25:13,276 Speaker 1: a much deserved break. Sure, educational films can be dead boring, 402 00:25:14,036 --> 00:25:18,276 Speaker 1: but sometimes that's reassuring. Sometimes the idea that hey, here 403 00:25:18,396 --> 00:25:21,036 Speaker 1: is a caterpillar, and here is how it turns into 404 00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:24,596 Speaker 1: a butterfly. It's good stuff to know, and good stuff 405 00:25:24,596 --> 00:25:26,796 Speaker 1: for kids to know. Grown ups want them to know. 406 00:25:27,556 --> 00:25:30,996 Speaker 1: There's beauty in the ordinary. The films are different from 407 00:25:30,996 --> 00:25:35,316 Speaker 1: an encyclopedia entry, no reading required. Also, they're not the 408 00:25:35,396 --> 00:25:39,196 Speaker 1: sum of human knowledge. They're invitations to knowledge. There's something 409 00:25:39,236 --> 00:25:42,436 Speaker 1: democratic about this move too. Not here's the gospel of 410 00:25:42,476 --> 00:25:45,876 Speaker 1: all known things. But here's a way to think, here's 411 00:25:45,876 --> 00:25:48,516 Speaker 1: how to consider, here's a way to do an experiment, 412 00:25:48,756 --> 00:25:53,476 Speaker 1: here's how to inquire. Smith made Britannica films for more 413 00:25:53,516 --> 00:25:55,836 Speaker 1: than a decade. One of his last is a film 414 00:25:55,836 --> 00:25:58,636 Speaker 1: about the Solar System. At this point he was a 415 00:25:58,636 --> 00:26:01,796 Speaker 1: master of the form. Also maybe just a little bit 416 00:26:01,796 --> 00:26:04,476 Speaker 1: ready to stretch it. This last film of his it 417 00:26:04,556 --> 00:26:06,916 Speaker 1: was only seventeen minutes long, but it takes you on 418 00:26:06,956 --> 00:26:09,756 Speaker 1: a tour of the Solar System through the black of space, 419 00:26:10,356 --> 00:26:13,756 Speaker 1: past each planet, as if you were traveling in a spaceship. 420 00:26:14,916 --> 00:26:18,596 Speaker 1: At night, the temperature becomes cold enough to make iron 421 00:26:18,836 --> 00:26:23,236 Speaker 1: little as glass. In the black sky, we see the 422 00:26:23,276 --> 00:26:28,196 Speaker 1: neighboring planet Venus. That film proved to be Smith's ticket 423 00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:32,556 Speaker 1: out of educational films. George Lucas Star Wars, George Lucas 424 00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:36,236 Speaker 1: saw Smith's Solar System film and loved its special effects. 425 00:26:36,476 --> 00:26:39,916 Speaker 1: Lucas hired him. Smith worked for years for Lucas's company, 426 00:26:39,996 --> 00:26:43,876 Speaker 1: Industrial Light and Magic. He worked on Et and Poltergeist. 427 00:26:44,036 --> 00:26:46,756 Speaker 1: On Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, He shrank the kids. 428 00:26:47,476 --> 00:26:53,836 Speaker 1: We're all the size of buggers. So there it is 429 00:26:54,276 --> 00:26:57,396 Speaker 1: your historical through line from Sputnik to Honey, I Shrunk 430 00:26:57,396 --> 00:27:02,076 Speaker 1: the Kids. During the time that Smith worked for Britannica Films, 431 00:27:02,116 --> 00:27:05,756 Speaker 1: his special effects were part of a bigger initiative trying 432 00:27:05,756 --> 00:27:09,596 Speaker 1: to keep Britannica up to date with the latest scientific discoveries. 433 00:27:10,236 --> 00:27:13,796 Speaker 1: Britannica had been the leading encyclopedia company for centuries, but 434 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:16,276 Speaker 1: by the time Smith was making those films, a few 435 00:27:16,276 --> 00:27:19,836 Speaker 1: problems had begun to crop up. Updating the encyclopedia had 436 00:27:19,836 --> 00:27:22,516 Speaker 1: been a problem for a long time. Britannica had, in 437 00:27:22,556 --> 00:27:25,556 Speaker 1: its earliest days, tried to publish new editions every few 438 00:27:25,596 --> 00:27:28,596 Speaker 1: decades or so, but that got harder and harder. The 439 00:27:28,676 --> 00:27:31,116 Speaker 1: warrior always was that a new edition would be out 440 00:27:31,116 --> 00:27:32,956 Speaker 1: of date by the time it was printed. It just 441 00:27:32,996 --> 00:27:36,676 Speaker 1: took so long to produce. In nineteen thirty eight, Britannica 442 00:27:36,716 --> 00:27:41,316 Speaker 1: had instituted a policy called continuous revision, that is, updating 443 00:27:41,356 --> 00:27:44,436 Speaker 1: parts of the encyclopedia every year instead of issuing a 444 00:27:44,516 --> 00:27:49,436 Speaker 1: holy new edition. In nineteen seventy, Warren Priests, Britannica's editor, 445 00:27:49,756 --> 00:27:53,436 Speaker 1: said that the job had gotten pretty near impossible. It 446 00:27:53,476 --> 00:27:55,476 Speaker 1: wasn't the only problem. It wasn't just that the world 447 00:27:55,516 --> 00:27:58,516 Speaker 1: was getting more complex. It was also that more voices 448 00:27:58,556 --> 00:28:02,116 Speaker 1: were speaking out against the whole idea of the encyclopedia, 449 00:28:02,236 --> 00:28:05,276 Speaker 1: objecting to the very enterprise of something like a one 450 00:28:05,316 --> 00:28:09,596 Speaker 1: stop shop for all knowledge. Britannica's editor, though, waived that 451 00:28:09,716 --> 00:28:15,796 Speaker 1: criticism aside, we are essentially a Western alow a world encyclopedia, 452 00:28:15,876 --> 00:28:21,436 Speaker 1: essentially a Western encyclopedia. Britannica really was very Western. It 453 00:28:21,476 --> 00:28:23,956 Speaker 1: wasn't the sum of all human knowledge. It dropped its 454 00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:27,636 Speaker 1: net only in one ocean of knowledge. Still, it kept 455 00:28:27,636 --> 00:28:31,036 Speaker 1: trying to get bigger. In nineteen seventy four, Britannica issued 456 00:28:31,116 --> 00:28:35,236 Speaker 1: the first new edition in over forty years, Britannica three 457 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:38,876 Speaker 1: twenty eight volumes, more than four thousand contributors for more 458 00:28:38,876 --> 00:28:42,316 Speaker 1: than a hundred countries. Putting it together, it cost thirty 459 00:28:42,316 --> 00:28:46,276 Speaker 1: two million dollars. It's the one Encyclopedia your kids won't 460 00:28:46,276 --> 00:28:51,556 Speaker 1: outgrow Neil Britannica three. One size fits all. Britannica three 461 00:28:51,636 --> 00:28:55,596 Speaker 1: had been reorganized, was still limited, written mainly by white 462 00:28:55,596 --> 00:28:59,276 Speaker 1: men and mainly about the Western world. But it was bigger, 463 00:28:59,276 --> 00:29:01,796 Speaker 1: and it was new, and it generated tons of sales. 464 00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:08,036 Speaker 1: Myron Taxman, Encyclopedia salesman, was thrilled, Oh that was unbelievable. Yeah, 465 00:29:07,636 --> 00:29:09,836 Speaker 1: did that change your pa? Which did it bring a 466 00:29:09,876 --> 00:29:12,396 Speaker 1: new business? It brought in a tremendous amount of new 467 00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:15,196 Speaker 1: business because even people that had the old set wanted 468 00:29:15,276 --> 00:29:16,956 Speaker 1: to get the new set, just like you know, I 469 00:29:16,996 --> 00:29:18,796 Speaker 1: have an old car, you want to get the new car. 470 00:29:19,556 --> 00:29:23,196 Speaker 1: And yeah, that year we made a ton of money. 471 00:29:23,476 --> 00:29:25,476 Speaker 1: Was a real easy sale. I mean that was like 472 00:29:25,516 --> 00:29:30,836 Speaker 1: shooting ducks. And then somewhat abruptly, the duck shooting era 473 00:29:31,196 --> 00:29:34,836 Speaker 1: came to an end. Personal computers have a lie and 474 00:29:34,876 --> 00:29:40,756 Speaker 1: they're available now at best Buy. In nineteen ninety a 475 00:29:40,796 --> 00:29:44,316 Speaker 1: set of Encyclopedia Britannica cost about fifteen hundred dollars. For 476 00:29:44,396 --> 00:29:47,356 Speaker 1: that money, you could just about buy a computer, which 477 00:29:47,396 --> 00:29:50,076 Speaker 1: likely came with some kind of an encyclopedia as a 478 00:29:50,116 --> 00:29:53,716 Speaker 1: CD ROM. I asked Myron what he'd say when people 479 00:29:53,756 --> 00:29:56,316 Speaker 1: told him they didn't need an encyclopedia because they were 480 00:29:56,356 --> 00:29:59,276 Speaker 1: getting a computer. You know, there's nothing like having a 481 00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:02,076 Speaker 1: book in your hand, and that you could get the 482 00:30:02,116 --> 00:30:06,956 Speaker 1: browsing factor when you're looking at something and find other topics. 483 00:30:07,036 --> 00:30:10,676 Speaker 1: And this was the beauty of it. But it started 484 00:30:10,716 --> 00:30:14,836 Speaker 1: getting harder and harder. Between nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety four, 485 00:30:15,196 --> 00:30:20,436 Speaker 1: encyclopedia sales fell by half. Even Britannica's TV ads featuring 486 00:30:20,436 --> 00:30:25,036 Speaker 1: this super annoying teenager couldn't save the business. My folks 487 00:30:25,076 --> 00:30:26,876 Speaker 1: make sure I get a good breakfast. They got me 488 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:30,036 Speaker 1: a computer, a video camera, a compact displayer. But the 489 00:30:30,076 --> 00:30:32,596 Speaker 1: problem is, hardly any of this stuff can really help 490 00:30:32,636 --> 00:30:34,676 Speaker 1: me with my school work. There is something you could 491 00:30:34,676 --> 00:30:36,636 Speaker 1: have which would help you a lot. It's the new 492 00:30:36,716 --> 00:30:39,996 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Britannica. Just call this toll free number and we'll 493 00:30:40,036 --> 00:30:42,476 Speaker 1: send you this free booklet telling you everything you need 494 00:30:42,516 --> 00:30:46,796 Speaker 1: to know about your key to the Information Aid. In 495 00:30:46,916 --> 00:30:49,636 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, Britannic could finally put all its content 496 00:30:49,716 --> 00:30:54,316 Speaker 1: on cd RAM, conceding to the Information age. But that 497 00:30:54,476 --> 00:30:58,196 Speaker 1: cd RAM cost twelve hundred dollars. You could get Microsoft, 498 00:30:58,236 --> 00:31:02,716 Speaker 1: cd ROM, Encyclopedia and Carter for a fraction of that knowledge. 499 00:31:02,716 --> 00:31:07,036 Speaker 1: It seemed was getting cheaper and cheaper, at least cheaper 500 00:31:07,076 --> 00:31:11,316 Speaker 1: to buy. It wasn't get cheaper to produce. In nineteen 501 00:31:11,396 --> 00:31:15,716 Speaker 1: ninety six, Britannica laid off its entire door to door salesforce. Taxman, 502 00:31:15,956 --> 00:31:19,356 Speaker 1: who is undauntable, took it in stride, put me out 503 00:31:19,356 --> 00:31:23,876 Speaker 1: of business. I had four kids, a couple in college. 504 00:31:25,116 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 1: Taxman became an insurance broker, and after a while he 505 00:31:27,836 --> 00:31:31,836 Speaker 1: retired and moved to Florida, enjoyed himself. Britannica for a 506 00:31:31,836 --> 00:31:35,796 Speaker 1: while anyway, kept on printing encyclopedias. But nineteen ninety six 507 00:31:36,156 --> 00:31:39,116 Speaker 1: that was the start of the Internet, and on the 508 00:31:39,156 --> 00:31:43,316 Speaker 1: Internet the sum of human knowledge would come knocking the 509 00:31:43,396 --> 00:31:46,756 Speaker 1: library that never closes, a whole different kind of door 510 00:31:46,756 --> 00:31:53,756 Speaker 1: to door public, free, democratic, inclusive, interactive, but also much 511 00:31:53,836 --> 00:31:57,796 Speaker 1: more room for error and misinformation. Knowledge on the Internet 512 00:31:57,956 --> 00:32:02,316 Speaker 1: could be faked. After the break will jump to hyperspace. 513 00:32:16,916 --> 00:32:21,836 Speaker 1: It was incredible, unbelievably, blindingly thrilling in the nineteen nineties 514 00:32:21,876 --> 00:32:24,756 Speaker 1: to ponder all that the Internet could do might do 515 00:32:25,356 --> 00:32:30,916 Speaker 1: link everything to everything else, hyperlink hyperspace, information moving at 516 00:32:30,916 --> 00:32:34,156 Speaker 1: the speed of light, and it didn't take long for 517 00:32:34,236 --> 00:32:36,716 Speaker 1: a few very clever people to figure out that you 518 00:32:36,756 --> 00:32:40,756 Speaker 1: could use this thing, this worldwide Web, to create a bigger, 519 00:32:40,876 --> 00:32:45,396 Speaker 1: better encyclopedia for everyone. All that promise and excitement it 520 00:32:45,516 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 1: led to a gazillion projects eager to add your expertise 521 00:32:49,316 --> 00:32:52,916 Speaker 1: to an article on Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that's 522 00:32:52,916 --> 00:32:56,516 Speaker 1: one of the world's most visited websites. Wikipedia is the 523 00:32:56,516 --> 00:32:59,436 Speaker 1: one project that realized all that giddy early promise of 524 00:32:59,436 --> 00:33:02,956 Speaker 1: the Internet. It's vast, it's open, it's free, and for 525 00:33:02,996 --> 00:33:06,276 Speaker 1: the most part, it's reliable. Anyone can write an article, 526 00:33:06,316 --> 00:33:09,076 Speaker 1: anyone can edit it, and so long as a subject clear, 527 00:33:09,116 --> 00:33:13,116 Speaker 1: there is a certain bar of notability, any person, place, thing, 528 00:33:13,196 --> 00:33:17,636 Speaker 1: or phenomenon can get an entry. I looked up sewing 529 00:33:17,636 --> 00:33:22,436 Speaker 1: needle on Wikipedia. The sewing needle used for hand sewing, 530 00:33:22,796 --> 00:33:25,116 Speaker 1: is a long, slender tool with a pointed tip at 531 00:33:25,116 --> 00:33:27,716 Speaker 1: one end and a hole or eye to hold the 532 00:33:27,756 --> 00:33:30,956 Speaker 1: sewing thread. This entry first appeared in two thousand and 533 00:33:30,996 --> 00:33:33,636 Speaker 1: four and has been edited more than three hundred times 534 00:33:33,676 --> 00:33:37,556 Speaker 1: by more than a hundred users, adding details and illustrations, 535 00:33:37,596 --> 00:33:42,116 Speaker 1: repairing broken links, correcting facts. The next major breakthrough in 536 00:33:42,196 --> 00:33:45,396 Speaker 1: needle making was the arrival of high quality steel making 537 00:33:45,436 --> 00:33:49,156 Speaker 1: technology from China in the tenth century, principally in Spain, 538 00:33:49,236 --> 00:33:52,476 Speaker 1: in the form of the Catalan furnace, which soon extended 539 00:33:52,516 --> 00:33:57,756 Speaker 1: to produce reasonably high quality steel in significant volumes. Wikipedia 540 00:33:57,836 --> 00:34:02,316 Speaker 1: isn't just say Britannica online. Its history is totally different, 541 00:34:02,316 --> 00:34:04,756 Speaker 1: and so is its relationship with the idea of the expert. 542 00:34:05,196 --> 00:34:08,076 Speaker 1: The whole venture relies on a notion of community, a 543 00:34:08,196 --> 00:34:11,156 Speaker 1: community of knowing. What's weird to me is that it 544 00:34:11,236 --> 00:34:13,756 Speaker 1: came in a way how to the dice throwing role 545 00:34:13,796 --> 00:34:18,236 Speaker 1: playing game Dungeons and Dragons. On the early Internet, you 546 00:34:18,276 --> 00:34:21,276 Speaker 1: could play Dungeons and Dragons like adventure games together in 547 00:34:21,356 --> 00:34:25,796 Speaker 1: what were known as MUDs, multiple user dungeons. This will 548 00:34:25,836 --> 00:34:27,596 Speaker 1: be lost on you if you've never played D and D. 549 00:34:28,076 --> 00:34:30,756 Speaker 1: But there is just a D and D vibe about Wikipedia, 550 00:34:30,796 --> 00:34:35,996 Speaker 1: there's no denying it. Jimmy Wales played a lot of 551 00:34:36,036 --> 00:34:38,836 Speaker 1: these games when he was in graduate school. Wales got 552 00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:42,196 Speaker 1: very interested in how people navigated around the Internet early on, 553 00:34:42,636 --> 00:34:46,516 Speaker 1: which were with these things called web directories. Think of 554 00:34:46,516 --> 00:34:49,036 Speaker 1: it like picking up your phone and asking the operator 555 00:34:49,236 --> 00:34:53,756 Speaker 1: information please, or like using the Yellow Pages, a telephone directory. 556 00:34:54,316 --> 00:34:58,556 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety nine, Wales started something called Newpedia and 557 00:34:58,636 --> 00:35:00,996 Speaker 1: he hired a guy named Larry Sanger as his editor 558 00:35:01,036 --> 00:35:05,556 Speaker 1: in chief. Sanger was finishing a PhD in philosophy. In 559 00:35:05,596 --> 00:35:09,676 Speaker 1: its first year, nupedia posted about twenty articles, which is 560 00:35:09,716 --> 00:35:14,076 Speaker 1: not a lot. That's because unfortunately their peer review process 561 00:35:14,156 --> 00:35:18,956 Speaker 1: took forever. Also, Sanger was Nupedia's only regular employee. Everyone 562 00:35:18,996 --> 00:35:21,796 Speaker 1: else was part time or a volunteer. So then Sanger 563 00:35:21,876 --> 00:35:24,436 Speaker 1: got the idea to use this pretty new thing, a wiki, 564 00:35:24,756 --> 00:35:28,516 Speaker 1: which would allow editors to post changes directly. In two 565 00:35:28,556 --> 00:35:32,236 Speaker 1: thousand and one, Wikipedia was born. But in the end 566 00:35:32,276 --> 00:35:34,876 Speaker 1: it wasn't Sanger who became the face of this project. 567 00:35:35,356 --> 00:35:37,836 Speaker 1: It was the guy who is still the face of Wikipedia, 568 00:35:38,156 --> 00:35:41,116 Speaker 1: Jimmy Wales. Here he is explaining his role at a 569 00:35:41,196 --> 00:35:44,076 Speaker 1: TED talk in two thousand and seven. And then there's 570 00:35:44,156 --> 00:35:47,796 Speaker 1: monarchy and that's my role in the community. So I 571 00:35:49,516 --> 00:35:52,596 Speaker 1: was describing this in Berlin once and the next day 572 00:35:52,636 --> 00:35:55,196 Speaker 1: in the newspaper that the headline said, I am the 573 00:35:55,276 --> 00:35:59,356 Speaker 1: Queen of England, and that's not exactly what I said. 574 00:35:59,476 --> 00:36:04,356 Speaker 1: But Wales became king of Wikipedia because he and Sanger 575 00:36:04,436 --> 00:36:07,716 Speaker 1: had a falling out. Sanger wanted Wikipedia to be mostly 576 00:36:07,716 --> 00:36:11,636 Speaker 1: written by experts, and Sanger made the rules, one of which, 577 00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:14,396 Speaker 1: as The Atlantic Ones pointed out, was that if an 578 00:36:14,476 --> 00:36:18,076 Speaker 1: article could conceivably have gone in Britannica, it was encyclopedic 579 00:36:18,316 --> 00:36:21,876 Speaker 1: and permitted, but if not, it was not encyclopedic and 580 00:36:21,996 --> 00:36:25,796 Speaker 1: to be deleted. Wells though he disagreed, he told that 581 00:36:25,876 --> 00:36:28,956 Speaker 1: Ted Crowd he didn't want Wikipedia to be like Britannica 582 00:36:29,036 --> 00:36:32,756 Speaker 1: at all. In nineteen sixty two, Charles van Doren, who 583 00:36:32,836 --> 00:36:35,956 Speaker 1: was later a senior editor at Britannica, said the ideal 584 00:36:36,036 --> 00:36:39,356 Speaker 1: encyclopedia should be radical, it should stop being safe. But 585 00:36:39,436 --> 00:36:41,276 Speaker 1: if you know anything about the history of Britannica since 586 00:36:41,356 --> 00:36:44,676 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, it was anything but radical. Sanger was 587 00:36:44,796 --> 00:36:47,316 Speaker 1: more or less forced out of Wikipedia. He went on 588 00:36:47,356 --> 00:36:50,116 Speaker 1: to become a fairly ornary critic of it. He wrote 589 00:36:50,116 --> 00:36:54,796 Speaker 1: a book arguing that Wikipedia needs experts. Originally, the notion 590 00:36:54,996 --> 00:36:57,996 Speaker 1: was Wikipedia was going to be paired with another website 591 00:36:57,996 --> 00:37:01,316 Speaker 1: called Newpedia, which was going to actually vet the articles 592 00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:06,556 Speaker 1: and post them as being expert approved. But that sort 593 00:37:06,596 --> 00:37:10,356 Speaker 1: of approve of process fell by the way and Wikipedia 594 00:37:10,436 --> 00:37:14,996 Speaker 1: just went on, you know, all by itself. Wikipedia, in 595 00:37:14,996 --> 00:37:17,676 Speaker 1: other words, had something of a rocky start, but then 596 00:37:17,676 --> 00:37:20,916 Speaker 1: it started getting bigger, and it also started getting better. 597 00:37:21,516 --> 00:37:24,916 Speaker 1: As of twenty twenty two, Wikipedia is the ninth most 598 00:37:25,036 --> 00:37:27,676 Speaker 1: visited website in the United States and in the world. 599 00:37:28,596 --> 00:37:32,556 Speaker 1: Britannica has a website, Britannica dot com. It's way back, 600 00:37:32,596 --> 00:37:36,716 Speaker 1: somewhere in the eight hundreds. Wikipedia exists in more than 601 00:37:36,796 --> 00:37:41,036 Speaker 1: three hundred languages. Each is a separate version, Britannica not 602 00:37:41,116 --> 00:37:45,196 Speaker 1: so much. Britannica in the last print edition has got 603 00:37:45,196 --> 00:37:49,676 Speaker 1: sixty five thousand articles. Wikipedia today has got more than 604 00:37:49,716 --> 00:37:54,356 Speaker 1: six million. Wikipedia is not perfect, but lately you won't 605 00:37:54,356 --> 00:37:56,916 Speaker 1: hear a lot of arguments against the notion that Wikipedia 606 00:37:57,036 --> 00:37:59,516 Speaker 1: is about the best thing on the Internet. It's like 607 00:37:59,636 --> 00:38:02,396 Speaker 1: what people say about democracy, that it's a terrible form 608 00:38:02,436 --> 00:38:07,516 Speaker 1: of government except for all the other ones. Wikipedia a 609 00:38:07,676 --> 00:38:12,196 Speaker 1: terrible encyclopedia by except for all the other ones. You know, 610 00:38:12,276 --> 00:38:16,036 Speaker 1: it's that same kind of problem. Jessamine West is a 611 00:38:16,076 --> 00:38:20,556 Speaker 1: librarian and a Wikipedia supereditor. She's got the best vantage 612 00:38:20,556 --> 00:38:23,676 Speaker 1: on what's great about Wikipedia and what's still tricky about it, 613 00:38:24,076 --> 00:38:26,556 Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, think about democracy, right, like 614 00:38:26,756 --> 00:38:29,956 Speaker 1: democracy slowly gets better, But it used to be women 615 00:38:29,996 --> 00:38:32,396 Speaker 1: couldn't vote, people of color couldn't vote, and now they 616 00:38:32,436 --> 00:38:35,916 Speaker 1: can and is democracy fixed? No, but it's better, you know, 617 00:38:36,356 --> 00:38:38,076 Speaker 1: and you still have to kind of fight for it 618 00:38:38,116 --> 00:38:41,356 Speaker 1: all the time. And that's the struggle. Wikipedia realizes on 619 00:38:41,476 --> 00:38:44,876 Speaker 1: volunteer editors, which means it's only as good as the volunteers. 620 00:38:45,316 --> 00:38:47,596 Speaker 1: Early on, a lot of the volunteers were guys who 621 00:38:47,596 --> 00:38:50,396 Speaker 1: are online all the time, a certain sort of geek. 622 00:38:50,756 --> 00:38:53,636 Speaker 1: So for a long time, for years, nearly everyone writing 623 00:38:53,716 --> 00:38:56,796 Speaker 1: articles was a man, an English speaker, and white, just 624 00:38:56,836 --> 00:39:00,396 Speaker 1: like the people who wrote the Encyclopedia Britannica, except maybe 625 00:39:00,436 --> 00:39:04,076 Speaker 1: with fewer advanced degrees. And some of these Wikipedia guys 626 00:39:04,116 --> 00:39:07,476 Speaker 1: were either creepy or juvenile or both. Not all of them, 627 00:39:07,516 --> 00:39:10,716 Speaker 1: of course, but there were these crazy dark alleys where 628 00:39:10,916 --> 00:39:14,716 Speaker 1: some guys wrote endless entries about stuff that interested really 629 00:39:14,716 --> 00:39:18,396 Speaker 1: only them. Porn stars in Pokemon is essentially you know, 630 00:39:18,436 --> 00:39:21,036 Speaker 1: you want to see some really good Wikipedia pages, look 631 00:39:21,076 --> 00:39:26,356 Speaker 1: at those. These first generation Wikipedians, like every Wikipedian, were 632 00:39:26,356 --> 00:39:30,156 Speaker 1: also editors, vetting new content, especially content posted by people 633 00:39:30,276 --> 00:39:34,236 Speaker 1: who were new to Wikipedia. Editors are great, but these guys. 634 00:39:34,316 --> 00:39:37,996 Speaker 1: They were not always great editors. Still, the editing eventually 635 00:39:37,996 --> 00:39:42,876 Speaker 1: got a lot better. Also, Wikipedia developed new rules requiring citation. 636 00:39:43,356 --> 00:39:48,516 Speaker 1: I think really the footnote saved Wikipedia. I once submitted 637 00:39:48,516 --> 00:39:51,116 Speaker 1: an entry about a dead and long forgotten poet. It 638 00:39:51,196 --> 00:39:53,636 Speaker 1: took nearly a year from my submitted entry to clear 639 00:39:53,676 --> 00:39:56,716 Speaker 1: all the editorial hurdles. I loved that I was a 640 00:39:56,756 --> 00:39:59,676 Speaker 1: new Wikipedian and hadn't been tried and tested yet. I 641 00:39:59,796 --> 00:40:02,356 Speaker 1: love that people all over the world fixed up my article, 642 00:40:02,796 --> 00:40:07,116 Speaker 1: challenged my citations and made it better. Jessmine West has 643 00:40:07,116 --> 00:40:10,476 Speaker 1: been a Wikipedian for so long. Her articles are so 644 00:40:10,556 --> 00:40:13,916 Speaker 1: good that she earned a kind of promotion. You can 645 00:40:13,956 --> 00:40:19,116 Speaker 1: get this weird little status that's called what's called auto patrolled, 646 00:40:19,396 --> 00:40:22,116 Speaker 1: which means when you make an article, you write an article, 647 00:40:22,156 --> 00:40:25,316 Speaker 1: you write an article from scratch. It doesn't have to 648 00:40:25,396 --> 00:40:29,596 Speaker 1: go through a whole bunch of hoops before it's kind 649 00:40:29,636 --> 00:40:34,916 Speaker 1: of live on Wikipedia and everybody can see it, which 650 00:40:34,996 --> 00:40:37,916 Speaker 1: means that it doesn't go through What I see is 651 00:40:37,956 --> 00:40:42,116 Speaker 1: the dude gauntlet of people who are like this lady 652 00:40:42,316 --> 00:40:49,556 Speaker 1: scientist isn't important, and you're like your opinion, sir. Maybe 653 00:40:49,956 --> 00:40:57,676 Speaker 1: the part here that isn't important the Dude Gauntlet. That 654 00:40:57,756 --> 00:40:59,756 Speaker 1: kind of thing raised a lot of questions about who 655 00:40:59,796 --> 00:41:03,916 Speaker 1: was doing what on Wikipedia. Scholars started studying it quantitatively 656 00:41:04,076 --> 00:41:07,196 Speaker 1: and concluded that over the first ten years of Wikipedia, 657 00:41:07,476 --> 00:41:11,236 Speaker 1: one percent of its contributors we're responsible for nearly eighty 658 00:41:11,236 --> 00:41:14,636 Speaker 1: percent of its content. But is that at all surprising? 659 00:41:14,876 --> 00:41:17,836 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Wikipedia is so huge that to 660 00:41:17,876 --> 00:41:20,676 Speaker 1: write good articles and make good edits, it's just going 661 00:41:20,716 --> 00:41:23,276 Speaker 1: to make sense that a very tiny fraction of Wikipedia 662 00:41:23,356 --> 00:41:26,236 Speaker 1: users are doing most of that work. That's not okay 663 00:41:26,236 --> 00:41:28,956 Speaker 1: when that tiny fraction is the dude Gauntlet, a group 664 00:41:29,036 --> 00:41:30,996 Speaker 1: of people who have in common not that they are 665 00:41:31,036 --> 00:41:33,716 Speaker 1: good editors, but that they are men. But what if 666 00:41:33,756 --> 00:41:37,556 Speaker 1: that tiny fraction is a broadly diverse group of people. 667 00:41:38,276 --> 00:41:41,756 Speaker 1: West is especially proud of a Wikipedia project called Women 668 00:41:41,836 --> 00:41:44,756 Speaker 1: in Red. If there's a link that goes to somebody 669 00:41:44,796 --> 00:41:48,236 Speaker 1: who's not in Wikipedia yet, it's a red link, and 670 00:41:48,276 --> 00:41:51,636 Speaker 1: then once that link goes to an active page, it's blue. 671 00:41:51,916 --> 00:41:53,876 Speaker 1: And so Women in Red is like, let's look at 672 00:41:53,876 --> 00:41:56,076 Speaker 1: all these women who have red links, and let's write 673 00:41:56,156 --> 00:41:59,796 Speaker 1: articles about them. And it's a huge project. People are writing, 674 00:42:00,196 --> 00:42:03,636 Speaker 1: you know, pay dozens of pages about women every day 675 00:42:03,756 --> 00:42:07,516 Speaker 1: on Wikipedia. The way West thinks about Wikipedia, it's like 676 00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:10,556 Speaker 1: we're just in a sweet bought here in twenty twenty two, 677 00:42:10,596 --> 00:42:13,876 Speaker 1: where this is actually working. For all the misinformation and 678 00:42:13,956 --> 00:42:18,836 Speaker 1: insanity on Facebook and YouTube and TikTok and whatnot, Wikipedia, 679 00:42:19,156 --> 00:42:23,436 Speaker 1: in this iteration, anyway, is actually working during the whole 680 00:42:23,436 --> 00:42:26,076 Speaker 1: of the pandemic. For instance, it was just an incredibly 681 00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:29,156 Speaker 1: reliable source of information about COVID, and I think mainly 682 00:42:29,276 --> 00:42:33,356 Speaker 1: because it requires citation, because it favors reliable sources, because 683 00:42:33,356 --> 00:42:37,956 Speaker 1: it's constantly updated, because it can be corrected. West is 684 00:42:37,956 --> 00:42:41,156 Speaker 1: eloquent on the subject of embracing imperfection, of knowing that 685 00:42:41,276 --> 00:42:44,156 Speaker 1: figuring out what's true and what's not is endless work. 686 00:42:44,716 --> 00:42:48,036 Speaker 1: He can't take shortcuts. There's always gonna be people who 687 00:42:48,836 --> 00:42:51,996 Speaker 1: sort of crab about things, and I think you see 688 00:42:52,036 --> 00:42:54,956 Speaker 1: that on any topic. And so some of it's just 689 00:42:55,476 --> 00:42:58,476 Speaker 1: deciding about your outlook. Some of it's deciding how you 690 00:42:58,516 --> 00:43:01,436 Speaker 1: want to get involved, if it's a way that is 691 00:43:01,556 --> 00:43:04,916 Speaker 1: useful for you. And some of it is I think 692 00:43:05,236 --> 00:43:09,596 Speaker 1: the scales fall from your eyes understanding that everything's perfect, 693 00:43:09,636 --> 00:43:12,516 Speaker 1: but if you can understand how a thing is imperfect, 694 00:43:12,836 --> 00:43:15,596 Speaker 1: that allows you to make the corrections using your own 695 00:43:15,676 --> 00:43:18,716 Speaker 1: human brain and your own human eyeballs to get the 696 00:43:18,836 --> 00:43:21,716 Speaker 1: knowledge out of it that you want. A few years back, 697 00:43:22,116 --> 00:43:25,796 Speaker 1: Jessamine West solved something known as the neck beard hoax. 698 00:43:27,156 --> 00:43:31,756 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love this story so much. Online, 699 00:43:32,076 --> 00:43:36,436 Speaker 1: citing Wikipedia, people started quoting something Louisa May Alcott had 700 00:43:36,476 --> 00:43:41,796 Speaker 1: said trash talking Henry David Threau. Allegedly, Alcott had said 701 00:43:42,076 --> 00:43:46,356 Speaker 1: to Ralph Waldo Emerson, the rose neckbeard will most assuredly 702 00:43:46,396 --> 00:43:50,316 Speaker 1: deflect amorous advances and preserve the man's virtue and perpetuity. 703 00:43:51,156 --> 00:43:55,796 Speaker 1: So neckbeard, right, it's a derogatory term for you know, 704 00:43:57,036 --> 00:44:00,796 Speaker 1: a type of internet man or internet beard. Have her 705 00:44:00,836 --> 00:44:04,756 Speaker 1: sorry that you know you've got this weird kind of 706 00:44:04,796 --> 00:44:07,476 Speaker 1: slobby beard, and it probably implies a whole bunch of 707 00:44:07,476 --> 00:44:11,236 Speaker 1: things about you. Is the is the kind of Internet 708 00:44:11,916 --> 00:44:15,796 Speaker 1: zeitgeist about it, And a lot of people would bolster 709 00:44:16,076 --> 00:44:21,156 Speaker 1: their negative opinions of neck beard Havers by saying that 710 00:44:21,796 --> 00:44:27,836 Speaker 1: Louisa May Alcott used to dish on Thorow's neck beard. 711 00:44:28,876 --> 00:44:31,596 Speaker 1: They'd always provide some kind of a citation because they 712 00:44:31,596 --> 00:44:34,196 Speaker 1: had to. I was like, well, that's kind of interesting. 713 00:44:34,236 --> 00:44:37,716 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem that sounds weird, and so I looked, 714 00:44:37,756 --> 00:44:39,996 Speaker 1: because it's Wikipedia, right, I was like, well, where does 715 00:44:40,036 --> 00:44:42,996 Speaker 1: that fact come from? Drop down to the bottom comes 716 00:44:43,036 --> 00:44:50,196 Speaker 1: from some sixteen volume Emerson collection of Letters. I was like, 717 00:44:50,316 --> 00:44:53,556 Speaker 1: oh god, this is the worst. But I was like, okay, 718 00:44:53,636 --> 00:44:58,116 Speaker 1: I bet I can find that online. Probably. So she 719 00:44:58,156 --> 00:45:01,116 Speaker 1: did what any good research or any good archivists, good librarian, 720 00:45:01,276 --> 00:45:04,676 Speaker 1: good citizen would do. She tried to find a reliable 721 00:45:04,716 --> 00:45:08,636 Speaker 1: original source for this quote. She called up scholars, other archivists, 722 00:45:08,676 --> 00:45:13,676 Speaker 1: other variants, Emerson experts, no Alcott on Throw's neck beard. 723 00:45:14,396 --> 00:45:16,756 Speaker 1: Wherever she looked, she couldn't find it. And I'm like, 724 00:45:16,836 --> 00:45:20,076 Speaker 1: that's not there. So she went back to Wikipedia, and 725 00:45:20,116 --> 00:45:22,676 Speaker 1: then I went looking to like who made that edit 726 00:45:22,956 --> 00:45:26,356 Speaker 1: which you can find, and what other edits they made, 727 00:45:26,596 --> 00:45:29,996 Speaker 1: like two or three kind of jokey bs edits like 728 00:45:30,076 --> 00:45:31,916 Speaker 1: around the same time, and then they were never seen 729 00:45:31,956 --> 00:45:36,796 Speaker 1: on Wikipedia again. And that quote was like an Internet 730 00:45:36,876 --> 00:45:41,356 Speaker 1: darling for years, years because people love it, right, because 731 00:45:41,396 --> 00:45:46,836 Speaker 1: it reinforces feelings or stereotypes that they already have. And 732 00:45:46,876 --> 00:45:49,036 Speaker 1: so I was just like, well, hack with this, went 733 00:45:49,076 --> 00:45:52,636 Speaker 1: into the page, deleted that sentence, you know, wrote a 734 00:45:52,676 --> 00:45:56,236 Speaker 1: little edit Summary, which is another part of Wikipedia where 735 00:45:56,236 --> 00:45:58,356 Speaker 1: you can tell why you did what you did. And 736 00:45:58,396 --> 00:46:03,476 Speaker 1: I was like, this never happened. Never happened, So she 737 00:46:03,556 --> 00:46:08,676 Speaker 1: corrected it defended the neck beards. Wikipedia in the end is, 738 00:46:08,716 --> 00:46:12,756 Speaker 1: I think exactly what Encyclopedia Britannica wanted to be, at 739 00:46:12,836 --> 00:46:16,596 Speaker 1: least at first, the perfect instrument of the Enlightenment, the 740 00:46:16,796 --> 00:46:21,356 Speaker 1: universal diffusion of knowledge through the collective exercise of human 741 00:46:21,396 --> 00:46:27,596 Speaker 1: reason and the enthusiasm for discovery, observation, discernment, and judgment. 742 00:46:29,196 --> 00:46:34,276 Speaker 1: I asked my Rentaxment about it. Do you use Wikipedia? Oh, oh, constantly. 743 00:46:35,636 --> 00:46:37,756 Speaker 1: A matter of fact, I just gave them a donation. 744 00:46:37,836 --> 00:46:42,316 Speaker 1: They're always you know. I like Wikipedia. Actually I use 745 00:46:42,356 --> 00:46:46,796 Speaker 1: Wikipedia constantly too, and like my Rentaxment full disclosure, I donate. 746 00:46:47,236 --> 00:46:49,996 Speaker 1: I also worry it can't last, because it does cost 747 00:46:49,996 --> 00:46:53,436 Speaker 1: a lot to keep it going, servers people's labor, and 748 00:46:53,556 --> 00:46:56,476 Speaker 1: yet it's still free, and so I worry it'll get 749 00:46:56,476 --> 00:46:59,396 Speaker 1: screwed up because so much that involves so many people 750 00:46:59,436 --> 00:47:03,236 Speaker 1: so often get screwed up. But I'm grateful that for now. Anyway, 751 00:47:03,716 --> 00:47:08,836 Speaker 1: it's amazing. I learned that Wikipedia is sewing needle page 752 00:47:09,196 --> 00:47:13,556 Speaker 1: for centuries Japan has celebrated something called the Festival of 753 00:47:13,676 --> 00:47:18,596 Speaker 1: Broken Needles Harry Couyoh, where people lay their broken needles 754 00:47:18,636 --> 00:47:22,996 Speaker 1: to rest with thanks. According to Wikipedia's entry about it, 755 00:47:23,516 --> 00:47:26,636 Speaker 1: Harry Koyoh began four hundred years ago, has a way 756 00:47:26,636 --> 00:47:30,516 Speaker 1: for housekeepers and professional needle workers to acknowledge their work 757 00:47:30,556 --> 00:47:35,156 Speaker 1: over the past years and respect their tools. Practitioners went 758 00:47:35,156 --> 00:47:39,636 Speaker 1: to Shinto shrines and Buddhist temples to thank their broken 759 00:47:39,676 --> 00:47:45,596 Speaker 1: needles for their help and service. So I guess this episode, 760 00:47:46,396 --> 00:47:49,476 Speaker 1: this whole season of The Last Archive really is a 761 00:47:49,596 --> 00:47:53,436 Speaker 1: kind of festival of broken needles. My chance to say 762 00:47:53,476 --> 00:47:56,676 Speaker 1: prayers of thanks for all the wikipedians and their tools, 763 00:47:57,476 --> 00:48:01,636 Speaker 1: their facts and rules and sources and footnotes and talk 764 00:48:01,676 --> 00:48:04,996 Speaker 1: pages and edit pages, and prayers of thanks to everyone 765 00:48:05,036 --> 00:48:10,956 Speaker 1: else who's doing this good work with their tools, teachers, librarians, farmers, 766 00:48:10,996 --> 00:48:20,156 Speaker 1: scientists stitching together with their needles the fabric of common knowledge. 767 00:48:27,436 --> 00:48:30,636 Speaker 1: The Last Archive is written and hosted by me Jill Lapour. 768 00:48:31,196 --> 00:48:34,356 Speaker 1: It's produced by Sophie Crane, Ben Natt of Haffrey and 769 00:48:34,516 --> 00:48:37,996 Speaker 1: Lucy Sullivan. Our editors are Julia Barton and Sophie Crane, 770 00:48:38,196 --> 00:48:41,556 Speaker 1: and our executive producer is Mia Lobell. Jake Gorsky is 771 00:48:41,556 --> 00:48:46,076 Speaker 1: our engineer. Fact checking by Amy Gaines. Original music by 772 00:48:46,116 --> 00:48:50,636 Speaker 1: Matthias Boss and John Evans of Stellwagen Symfinett. Our research 773 00:48:50,676 --> 00:48:55,316 Speaker 1: assistant is Mia Hazra. Our full proof player is Robert Ricotta. 774 00:48:55,916 --> 00:48:58,236 Speaker 1: Many of our sound effects are from Harry Janette Junior 775 00:48:58,316 --> 00:49:01,556 Speaker 1: and the Star Jennette Foundation. The Last Archive is a 776 00:49:01,556 --> 00:49:04,556 Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show, consider 777 00:49:04,636 --> 00:49:09,036 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus, offering bonus content like The Last Archivist, 778 00:49:09,396 --> 00:49:13,036 Speaker 1: a limited series just for subscribers, and add free listening 779 00:49:13,036 --> 00:49:16,356 Speaker 1: across our network for four ninety nine a month. Look 780 00:49:16,356 --> 00:49:19,476 Speaker 1: for the Pushkin Plus channel on Apple Podcasts or at 781 00:49:19,516 --> 00:49:23,076 Speaker 1: pushkin dot fm. If you like the show, please remember 782 00:49:23,116 --> 00:49:26,556 Speaker 1: to rate, share and review. To find more Pushkin podcasts. 783 00:49:26,836 --> 00:49:30,596 Speaker 1: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 784 00:49:30,596 --> 00:49:32,796 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm Jillapour