1
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,760
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome and I'm Doug godly Been you you know

2
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 1: you you listen you've decided to download, subscribe, hopefully rate

3
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:19,279
Speaker 1: All Ball the All Basketball podcast. Andy Katz from Everything

4
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,639
Speaker 1: Covering College Basketball will be my guest. We'll discuss the

5
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 1: Kansas case Kansas first as the n c A, which

6
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,319
Speaker 1: is a kind of bizarre case, to give you my

7
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: thoughts on it as well. Upcoming. Um, I want to

8
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 1: start with I want to start with LaMelo Ball. So

9
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 1: obviously at Alonzo Ball, who has been I guess in

10
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: comparison to some of his contemporaries that were drafted two

11
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,839
Speaker 1: years three years ago, he's been relatively disappointing as an

12
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,360
Speaker 1: NBA player. Much of this has to do with injuries, right,

13
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 1: Let's be honest. Injuries have derailed his run one and

14
00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,639
Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating to me that LaVar Ball, who I

15
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,360
Speaker 1: think you could partially credit LaVar with getting him drafted

16
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: by the Lakers. You know, it wasn't just speaking into existence,

17
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 1: it's you know, he was so profound, so pronounced in

18
00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,560
Speaker 1: his desire to change the world. That yeah, I don't

19
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 1: think if he was if he was from anywhere other

20
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,760
Speaker 1: than Southern California and he was any regular you know,

21
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,760
Speaker 1: dear and fox or that that he would have been drafted,

22
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,560
Speaker 1: that he would have been drafted at number two by

23
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 1: the l A Lakers. Was there a commiseration and that

24
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,959
Speaker 1: Magic saw a guy who could really pass? Yeah, I

25
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 1: think timing was everything. Um. I think playing at U C.

26
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,320
Speaker 1: L A, growing up in southern California, having a dad

27
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 1: who at the times, you know, said he wanted to

28
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 1: learn from Magic Johnson in terms of being a businessman. Like,

29
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 1: all of those things made a ton of sense. But

30
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 1: the speed by which you go from being drafted playing

31
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 1: in summer league to playing in the NBA not having

32
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 1: time to kind of build up your body and break

33
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: down your shot. And then they decided well in in

34
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 1: the off season. His first off season, he didn't really

35
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 1: have a chance to continue to improve on the court

36
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 1: because his knee was hurt. And then in his second

37
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,799
Speaker 1: year he got hurt again. And one of the reasons

38
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: he got hurt was because he was wearing shitty shoes

39
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,520
Speaker 1: that his dad started this brand, and we all know

40
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,360
Speaker 1: now these were knockoff shoes. All of that is it's

41
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 1: there's irony or just hysterical humor right, the brand that

42
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 1: his dad wanted to start. Some some creep ran off

43
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: with the money. Meanwhile, the shoes were so bad that

44
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,600
Speaker 1: the kid got hurt, and because the kid got hurt,

45
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 1: the Lakers season tanked and they end up trading the

46
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 1: kid out of town like that. If that's not an

47
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 1: American tale of two thousand nineteen, I don't know what is. Meanwhile,

48
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 1: LaMelo Ball that is, you know, his older brother, I

49
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 1: was supposed to go to u c. L A. And

50
00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,639
Speaker 1: we know how that went, but he wasn't any good.

51
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 1: LaMelo Ball has kind of been the chosen one. A

52
00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 1: little bit taller than Lonzo, maybe not the athlete of

53
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,919
Speaker 1: a Lonso, but similar vision um. His jump shot, while

54
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,919
Speaker 1: funky and you know, a little bit over to the

55
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 1: left side of his face, has developed more and is

56
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,959
Speaker 1: a little bit more pure. He still has kind of

57
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 1: an awkward but he's so big six six six seven,

58
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 1: and now he's playing in Australia. What's interesting to me

59
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 1: as you see him skyrocket up draft boards. And it's

60
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 1: important to remember this is before any of the kids

61
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,200
Speaker 1: that have gone to college have played a single scrimmage,

62
00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,240
Speaker 1: let alone a single game. And those guys, because you

63
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 1: know you're in Australia, out of side, out of mind.

64
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 1: They will climb up the draft boards like a cole

65
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,920
Speaker 1: Anthony may go ahead of him anyway. But this is

66
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: the this is the big point is that LaMelo Ball

67
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 1: changed as a pro prospect when his dad had his

68
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 1: hands off, went to Australia working out with legit guys.

69
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 1: Dad's staying out of the process, his dad out of

70
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 1: the limelight like that. Now when he comes back stay side.

71
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,480
Speaker 1: There will be caution over drafting LaMelo because how do

72
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 1: you handle the dad, And even if he has to

73
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 1: split places between New Orleans wherever the kid is drafted,

74
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,520
Speaker 1: it still could be a problem. But I told you

75
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,720
Speaker 1: on this podcast, the very same podcast, that the best

76
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: thing to do is if you went to Lithuania, stay away,

77
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 1: send him to a legit team and leave him there

78
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,359
Speaker 1: for a couple of years, because it's not about talent,

79
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,719
Speaker 1: it's about how he's developed, it's about how he's coached.

80
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,480
Speaker 1: And it's really hard to live that lifestyle a foreign country.

81
00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 1: But when you have the immense amount of skill that

82
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 1: some of these kids have, it can be the best

83
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 1: thing for you. Case in point, LaMelo Ball, I know

84
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 1: that some people have him as the top three, top

85
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,920
Speaker 1: four prospect, maybe a top two prospect. The issues with

86
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,599
Speaker 1: his dad being overly involved and being a problem for

87
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,640
Speaker 1: an NBA organization still persist. The kid looks really good

88
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 1: and really talented. Um I should point out the first

89
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 1: game they did lose by four d although I think

90
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 1: they've won their next two and let's see as the

91
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 1: season goes on. But at first glance, all of this

92
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 1: traveling around, all of this different levels of coaching, the

93
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 1: higher level of competition, the kids absorbed it, and he

94
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,679
Speaker 1: looks like he's gonna be a lottery pick. I actually

95
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 1: think like that this is great news for the n

96
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 1: C A great because there are other options. We're not

97
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,240
Speaker 1: your only option. You can go and play in Australia,

98
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 1: you can go and play in the g LAK. I

99
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't change anything, nothing, nothing at all, And in many ways,

100
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 1: getting away from southern California is the best thing to

101
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 1: ever happen to LaMelo ball. It doesn't mean that his

102
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 1: dad's a bad guy, or that his dad did a

103
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 1: bad job coaching him at a young age, none of that.

104
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,359
Speaker 1: But at some point your dad has to have his

105
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 1: hands off and just the proximity to your son is enough.

106
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: And Australians just don't. They don't really play that like that.

107
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 1: We're not we're not doing the daddy ball thing. And

108
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,479
Speaker 1: anybody who coaches their own kid, they know at some

109
00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 1: point you gotta let somebody else coach them. You have to,

110
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 1: you have to trust in somebody else. Because this is

111
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 1: what fell a Lonzo Ball. He hadn't played pick and

112
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 1: roll basketball, he hadn't played real basketball, real defense, and

113
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,159
Speaker 1: the assimilation of the NBA has taken longer because he

114
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 1: hasn't and because he's been injured, whereas Lamello has played

115
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: against better competition, older guys, and now he's playing without

116
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 1: his dad's hands on him at all at all points.

117
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: And I think he's the better because of it. You know,

118
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 1: I think that's a reasonable discussion, reasonable discussion to have.

119
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,160
Speaker 1: All right, let's welcome him in. You'll see him on

120
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,840
Speaker 1: on Fox College, Bass, Foxes college basketball coverage, Big ten

121
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 1: Networks college basketball coverage, n c A dot Com, and

122
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 1: of course Turner Sports and the coverage of the n

123
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,800
Speaker 1: c A tournament. Um. You can basically get him everywhere.

124
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,600
Speaker 1: He's the one and only Cats and Mowyer. He's Andy Katz,

125
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: my longtime friend and incredible reporter for college basketball. Um,

126
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 1: let's let's get to the Kansas story, because you and

127
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: I were discussing this via text, and I think it's

128
00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 1: a really kind of complicated web that we have to

129
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 1: dig through, right because you have this, you have these

130
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,320
Speaker 1: court documents which again in court, um make Kansas or

131
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,440
Speaker 1: Kansas basketball out to be a victim. Yet you have

132
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: n C rules and there's all kinds of other what's

133
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: your read on the investigation into Kansas? Well, I mean

134
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:21,880
Speaker 1: I can only go with what I read and what

135
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: you read as well. I mean I don't have any

136
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 1: inside information. Um, I would say that this falls in

137
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: line with what you know. San Louilcox from The Nail

138
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: was quoted as saying earlier in the summer that they

139
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: were going to sort of move swiftly, that schools were mentioned,

140
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,120
Speaker 1: uh in the FBI investigation. We're going to uh, you know,

141
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: they were going to have the snob investigation that you

142
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,000
Speaker 1: know for all the squawking that I heard from a

143
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 1: lot of other coaches, But when is something going to

144
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 1: happen for me? There's still it's following the path the

145
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 1: process of legal first. Then int double. Everyone wants things

146
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 1: to be faster. Um, we'll see if it can get

147
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 1: faster here during the season. My my read is that

148
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 1: at a baseline level, I can't see whether there's not

149
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: a scenario where there's not a game head coach game suspension. UM.

150
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say that as a baseline, and

151
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 1: I think that's true for all of these cases, especially

152
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 1: when you have UM violations, whether crimes or not actual

153
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: MP violation mentioned in court. So when we get to

154
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,679
Speaker 1: Arizona at some point we will uh, you know, you

155
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 1: had Book Richardson. You had Book Richardson obviously admitting because

156
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 1: he's serving time. So whether shann or new or not

157
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,559
Speaker 1: under the coach's control penalty, you just have to believe

158
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,439
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to sit at a minimum, So that

159
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: that's where I would start. How much further it gets,

160
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,679
Speaker 1: is there a posts band you know, you know what happens? Uh?

161
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,199
Speaker 1: Is there even more further like a show cause and

162
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,559
Speaker 1: all that. I don't know, and I think it's all speculation.

163
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,840
Speaker 1: But I think at a base level, we're gonna see,

164
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,439
Speaker 1: you know, some sort of coach suspension and then obviously

165
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,319
Speaker 1: the the usual you know, probationary stuff that will happen

166
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 1: in scholarships, all that, all that stuff that we've seen,

167
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,559
Speaker 1: you know, countless times for for other for other violations.

168
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 1: It's a full disclosure. I consider Bill self to be

169
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: a very close, dear friend, not just a former local

170
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,439
Speaker 1: state point guard and a lum. He's somebody that that

171
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: has always been completely forthright with me. I also understand that,

172
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 1: like you you know this, Like as much as we

173
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 1: say we know these guys, like we don't know everything

174
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 1: that's going on, and some of this stuff is things

175
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 1: that we thought were happening. Some of these things are

176
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 1: things that we thought that that we're happening. Right, Yeah,

177
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,559
Speaker 1: let me let me add Can I add one thing?

178
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 1: And that I have a great relationship with him. I

179
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,400
Speaker 1: would just say that by me saying a coach suspension,

180
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,679
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Bill did anything wrong. I'm saying personally,

181
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying that, based on what we've seen with this

182
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 1: coach control, if something happens in your program, they've been

183
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 1: consistent with the last five years that the coach is

184
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 1: going to sit games. So that's why I just think

185
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 1: it a baseline that that's going to happen. I look,

186
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,040
Speaker 1: I I tend to agree. I just I don't know. Uh,

187
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: it's like, what's the net net? You know, like even

188
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 1: the suspending coaches and embarrasses them, But that does that

189
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,800
Speaker 1: really do what you're trying to do? Is that accomplish

190
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do? That's that's one part. Secondly, Um,

191
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, I you know there are years in which

192
00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: last year, if you would have suspended, probably would have

193
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 1: been better because that wasn't a national championship year. This

194
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: one might be. Um, do you do you hold him

195
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 1: out of n c A tournament games or does he

196
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 1: end up? You know, there's long been thought that Bill

197
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 1: self has accomplished so much as the college coach, and

198
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: he's so good with people that he could be he

199
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 1: could be an NBA coach, Right, So do you do

200
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,080
Speaker 1: you chase him off to the NBA? You know what

201
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 1: what happens there? Um? And this is this is also

202
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 1: Kansas basketball, right, Like the complaint of many of the

203
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 1: constituents of the n c A has been the old

204
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: Jerry Tarcanian complaint, which was you get so mad at

205
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,880
Speaker 1: u c l A. You know, you put I forget

206
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,559
Speaker 1: Sam Houston State, whatever on on probation. Are you gonna

207
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 1: really go after Ku, who's one of the bright shining

208
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,760
Speaker 1: lights of the I mean, like the Nay Smith rules.

209
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 1: The actual rules of basketball are in a museum right

210
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 1: next to a gym named, you know, one of the

211
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: most historic field houses in all of America. Right that

212
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,559
Speaker 1: this is going after basketball royalty and so do they

213
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 1: pay an extra penalty because of who they are? Do

214
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,079
Speaker 1: you go lighter on them because you don't want to

215
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 1: take down the whole sport. I think all of that

216
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: is fascinating, but I don't think there's I mean, I

217
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: hope and I don't think there's truth in that. I

218
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 1: think that no one is above the rules. No one

219
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,400
Speaker 1: is above the law. We're seeing that, you know in

220
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:18,319
Speaker 1: Washington and UH and clearly if if there is an

221
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,160
Speaker 1: alleged violation, they're going to pursue it, or at least

222
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 1: they should. I also think that the new structure of

223
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: the importance of having outside people, because this case probably

224
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 1: would fall into this new UM complex case and maybe

225
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,760
Speaker 1: bungling the burbage here. But I think it's sort of

226
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 1: a complex case scenario where it handled by a third

227
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 1: party UM, and this may fall into that. Now would

228
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,200
Speaker 1: be one of the first ones to fall into that.

229
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,000
Speaker 1: And so if that's the case, it's you know, taken

230
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 1: out of of any kind of perception that might exist

231
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,199
Speaker 1: for you know, a blue blood. But uh, you know, look,

232
00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,959
Speaker 1: I mean, no one likes this. I mean, no one

233
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 1: wants to see, um, you know, a traditional power go

234
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,319
Speaker 1: through this. Um you know, no one wants to see

235
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: the inc Doubly tournament or the season to have a

236
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 1: cloud over it. Um you know, I mean Champions Classic

237
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,959
Speaker 1: is on ESPN. You know, our former colleagues, they don't

238
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,240
Speaker 1: want to spend all their time talking about what could

239
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 1: happen in Kansas. They want to talk about the games,

240
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:28,560
Speaker 1: and so they may have UM, I want to ask

241
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 1: you obviously, UM, you have a unique perspective now in

242
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 1: many ways working for the n c A. But they've never,

243
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,080
Speaker 1: I don't believe, told you what Have they ever told

244
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:42,440
Speaker 1: you what to say? What you can and cannot say? No, Um,

245
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,079
Speaker 1: you know, but I mean let's let's let's be honest.

246
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: It's like anything. Uh, you know, you have to always

247
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 1: thread the needle, and we did this at ESPN. I

248
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: mean you you got to just make sure, uh you

249
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,480
Speaker 1: know when because you have rights holders with different you know,

250
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 1: the NFL, uh, the NBA. You know, you just gotta

251
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,520
Speaker 1: always check everything. And so I'm just I'm very careful

252
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,680
Speaker 1: on on when you're on different platforms. Now. I do

253
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,080
Speaker 1: work for other platforms now too, as you just mentioned

254
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,319
Speaker 1: at the top. So, but that's the same thing. I

255
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 1: worked for the Big ten network, and you know we're

256
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 1: gonna nuance things clearly. If something happens in the Big Ten.

257
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it just happens everywhere. Okay. So Mark Emrit

258
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,640
Speaker 1: calls the namage image and likeness and existential threat to

259
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: the collegiate model biggest issue he's faced in almost ten

260
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: years on the job, and of course on social media.

261
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: He's the worst, Right, He's a liar, he's a hypocrite.

262
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 1: He blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Right, There's

263
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 1: there's nothing he could There's really nothing he could say

264
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,280
Speaker 1: outside of of granting people's name, image and likeness and

265
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 1: ability to sell it that would that would please anybody

266
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 1: on social media. Where are you in the argument? Because

267
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: I do feel like you and I are two of

268
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 1: the only media members kind of dockage maybe the other

269
00:14:53,760 --> 00:15:01,800
Speaker 1: like standing against this wind of of desired change. Um,

270
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 1: I will just say this that, uh you know, I

271
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 1: I don't know where it's going to happen. I don't

272
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 1: know what the states are gonna do. I do know

273
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: that there is a process within the n C double

274
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: legislative structure. I do you know they want to do

275
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 1: that process, and they've been to look about that. So

276
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 1: that's not I'm saying anything out of school here. UM.

277
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 1: I will say this that I think this is a

278
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 1: very valid argument and I and maybe players will come

279
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,560
Speaker 1: snapping back at me, but I just think in general,

280
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 1: people have overvalued what is out there. I mean, if

281
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 1: you keep just keep in mind, this is going to

282
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: be this if if if all this came into bee. Okay,

283
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 1: that's when this law would go into effect. That's a

284
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: year after we expect the collective Bargain agreement to change.

285
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: So let's assume the elite players, the cream of the crop,

286
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,560
Speaker 1: design will names in the world, don't come to college.

287
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 1: So now you're going down the level in the likeness

288
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 1: category here. Okay, I'm called me a steptic. I just

289
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 1: don't think there's huge value. Now, there may be some

290
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,840
Speaker 1: cities in America where they put a high premium on

291
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 1: who's on the college team even if he's not rated,

292
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 1: you know, a lottery picked and maybe he's much further

293
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: down and maybe they will be glad to you know,

294
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,840
Speaker 1: to to competence, you know, to to do something for them.

295
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 1: I just so very skeptical about the market. And you know,

296
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: I remember I was sitting with an NBA g M

297
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago at the Big Ten tournament

298
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,440
Speaker 1: watching then a very average Illinois and Iowa and I

299
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 1: asked him, I said, you know who's out here that

300
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: you were like, you know, pay to see? And he's like, nobody. Uh,

301
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 1: And look they were, you know, good college players. But

302
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 1: would you really pay you only look the people who

303
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 1: the people who go to college games go to see

304
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 1: their team play and learn about the players. Like it's

305
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: such a if you take away the the thing is this,

306
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: they've been able to go to the G League for

307
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,359
Speaker 1: the last decade and get whatever, name rights, likeness, whatever.

308
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,679
Speaker 1: No one's done it because it doesn't. You don't. You

309
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 1: can't increase your brand value without the brand of the

310
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 1: I think what Emirates actually talking about in terms of

311
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 1: existential threat is the entire system, Like look what what

312
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 1: people don't understand is not only do players not pay

313
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 1: taxes on the benefits that they have? Now should we

314
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: point out that some players actually have to pay taxes

315
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,119
Speaker 1: and the schools cover that right so, which is a

316
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: ridiculous cost. There's other things international play, which I disagree

317
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 1: with that, but that schools don't have to pay taxes

318
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: on the ticket revenue they have. They operate an attack shelter.

319
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,200
Speaker 1: And while everybody seems to think that Congress, that that

320
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 1: that state legislatures are doing this out of their own

321
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 1: kind of good will, like stop it, what do they do?

322
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 1: What do they do with everything? You want to give

323
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 1: me on a soapbox tissue, I'll go on this issue,

324
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 1: which is that, uh you know, I'm with you and

325
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: dockets on this. It is ridiculous, Okay, ridiculous to discuss

326
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: that they get nothing. Okay, that is I hate that

327
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,680
Speaker 1: because it is so untrue. It is so much better

328
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:38,120
Speaker 1: now than it was five twenty years ago. Okay. Number one,

329
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: the Shabazz napier thing is absolutely ludicrous. You literally right

330
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: now have to walk by the training table and not

331
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: take any food. Okay, you could get you do not

332
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:54,479
Speaker 1: have to eat outside of your facility, because I mean,

333
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 1: I was at Iowa last year for a game, and

334
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,120
Speaker 1: I was in the I was working out in their

335
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 1: in their training, they had baskets of snacks and in

336
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: the cooler, like the players could take whatever they want.

337
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 1: You could have brought a buffel bag. And it's not

338
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,239
Speaker 1: it's not just, it's not just. It's not just that

339
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,919
Speaker 1: though Andy like like saying food is just didn't have

340
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 1: food was a lie. Okay. And now of course you

341
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 1: get to collect the money for food and you know,

342
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,400
Speaker 1: actually spend it on food. Okay, But forget about all

343
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: of that. The I don't get anything. The value is

344
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 1: in getting into college. You have two kids, right, you know,

345
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: how hard to college next year? And the fact that

346
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, if she you know, if if we're able

347
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: to make it where a she doesn't she get to

348
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,120
Speaker 1: leave with no debt. That is, it's not just no debt.

349
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 1: How hard is it to get into college? How is

350
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 1: it to get into college? We're very we're very stressed

351
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: right now about all that. Right, and and and you

352
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: don't and I'm not saying that the college athletes can

353
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: get into any college they want, but it's a far

354
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 1: higher level than their grades would normally allow them to okay,

355
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: allows them access to all of the resources within the university,

356
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: both while you're there and after you're there. That has

357
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: a substantial value. No one going on right now, But

358
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: how about the keeps going on right now? We've got

359
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: Hollywood celebrities and these you know, rich parents paying hundreds

360
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars to try to get their kids

361
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 1: in school. It actually makes it makes it makes make

362
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 1: makes my points so much, so much easier. And then

363
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: like I look at Perry Ellis right, who's coming back

364
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 1: to Kansas. He gets to graduate, get get an advanced degree,

365
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: and to be on staff. All of that is part

366
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: of the resources that are offered to all of these

367
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: Division one student athletes, which has this you're on scholarship

368
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 1: for life. Man Like, look if I need shoes, funny gear,

369
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: I just called. I just called Mike Buyton's guys at

370
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 1: Oaklahoma State. I didn't play for him, you know, I

371
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: wanted his job. It doesn't matter, like you're part of

372
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: the family, you're to that. Two other points related that,

373
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: So the medical care, Okay, So Robbie Hummel was telling me,

374
00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 1: uh that towards knee I think the second time, and

375
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 1: Purdue blew him to New York City, I think, to

376
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: sign a sign a hospital to have his knee surgery there. Now,

377
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm not saying there aren't good knee doctors in Indiana,

378
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: but they wanted the best in the country and so

379
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: they could so he could actually be set up for

380
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. So he gets great knee

381
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: surgery in New York, put up in Polly four or

382
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,719
Speaker 1: five nights in a hotel, which is totally legal, Okay,

383
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 1: because Perdue, it's his there, his player. They're paying for it,

384
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: and they're getting he's getting great medical care. You want

385
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: an m r I and you're a regular person, you

386
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: gotta go, you know, to the e er or you

387
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: gotta wait and wait and wait and wait and get

388
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,239
Speaker 1: a referral. And they're they're handing out m ris right

389
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: and left at these universities. I mean, it's just the

390
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,479
Speaker 1: access to great medical care. So, you know, could they

391
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: get a little something because they get a little more

392
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: spending money, Sure, but let's first of all, it's not

393
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: I think that you know that they're not benefiting while

394
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 1: they're in school. A student athlete at Kentucky, Kansas, these

395
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: different schools, they have the best life on campus better

396
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: than any other students. They live better, they eat better,

397
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: they have better medical care, they travel better. And yes,

398
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: of course they provide a service for the university, but

399
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: don't ever tell me they don't get anything for it,

400
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: because while they're there, they have the better they have

401
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: a better experience than anybody, and they can leave whenever

402
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 1: they want and go become professionals, just like every other student.

403
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: And by the way, every other student brings in money

404
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: to the university, whether it's out of their own pocket

405
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: or post career. In terms of representing the school like it,

406
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: actually it is the same. Um yeah, I actually, look,

407
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: I don't have a relationship with em I don't know

408
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 1: if you do. And I know that people, you know,

409
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: like people don't understand that even though the n is

410
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: a nonprofit, there's lots of people who make seven figures

411
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: who run a nonprofit. Right, that's it's a that's a

412
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: it's a tax. But that's that's irrelevant right now. I

413
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 1: mean that I'm saying, but I'm saying point I want

414
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: to make about what you were saying about college athletes.

415
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: So you know, my second love is tennis, and my

416
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: son's really into it, and so I've got to know

417
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: some of the players on the tour that come through

418
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: the tournament Rhode Island where we live in the office

419
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: in the off season, and the college tennis players have

420
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: told the excuse me, the pro tennis players who played

421
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: college tennis, okay, tennis is a lonely sport. You're by yourself.

422
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: But because they've played in college, like Steve Johnson's who

423
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: played at UFC, he knows whenever he wants he can

424
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: go back to USC, there's gonna be someone to hit with,

425
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: he can work out there. He's got a base, you know.

426
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: And and and it's because he went to college and

427
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: he's it's like you said, it's a lifelong relationship. And

428
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: it's something that when you're on tour and you're around

429
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: the globe and you there's a USC fan and they're

430
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: gonna cheer for you. I mean, there's such a connection

431
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: that it's all about what's on the front of the jersey,

432
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: not what's on the back. Are agreed, and I think

433
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater,

434
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: And and you know, there's other points you can go into.

435
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 1: And that's what you're talking about in terms of the value,

436
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: Like you not only those guys. Will you know, it

437
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: becomes pay for play right where you're gonna try and

438
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: pay to get guys. People try and act like it's

439
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: because their name, likeness and bad they don't have. If

440
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: they had a value, then they could get money at

441
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: the G League. They don't without the school and now

442
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they have a value. It's only

443
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: because you're trying to pay to get the guy to play.

444
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: But the other part is that it will, I believe,

445
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: impact the bottom line for the schools right in that

446
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: you know, like look um Bifort Auto Group in in Oklahoma,

447
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: they provide the vehicles for the coaches and there you know,

448
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: the official vehicle provided there's a there's a fee that's

449
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: associated with that, and you know that money helps all

450
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: of the other That money helps gives cars to to

451
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: the coaches, which many by the way, the comp cars

452
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: in many states are going away for assistant coaches. It

453
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: doesn't make financial sense, okay, But now a Lisdden, you're

454
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: gonna hurt the bottom line of the athletic departments because

455
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: why would I pay you know, how ever much it

456
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: is to be the official vehicle provider of the of

457
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: the athletic department, Give all these cars, get all the signage,

458
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: get personal appearances. When I can pay an athlete five grand.

459
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: Now you may think that cuts out the middleman as

460
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: the fan, and that's the better thing, but that you

461
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: don't actually understand the financial structure athletes today. There is

462
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: only a handful, a handful, who actually sell product. I mean,

463
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: think how many where we were younger. You know a

464
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: lot of guys were getting shootios. Okay, only a handful

465
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: of guys, like literally one hand you could argue, are

466
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: selling you know, are selling speakers. So to think that

467
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: like all these companies or something going to make you know, money,

468
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: it's just it's ludifrous. I just don't see it happening,

469
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: especially in an economy you know that is you know,

470
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: it may be doing well, but it's still very cautious

471
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: and so people are not just the own money around

472
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: right and left, and uh, that's just not happening. And

473
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: so I think it's yes, it's great freedom and all that,

474
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 1: but I mean at the same time, I think the

475
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: market will ultimately show that there isn't great value. Um,

476
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: what about you personally? Right? This has been a kind

477
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: of interesting journey, and I don't know how much you've

478
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: shared on your podcast. Obviously you're part of the cuts

479
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: of the ESPN. I think everybody in college basketball thought

480
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: this doesn't make much sense at all, Um, but I

481
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: think when you look at all the different jobs you

482
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: have now, I could make the case to you. And

483
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: I don't know the finances of it, obviously, nor do

484
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: I want to really ask that's not my place. I

485
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: can make the case that not only have you shown

486
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: your value to the to our old our old home,

487
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: but it might have been the best thing that ever

488
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: happened to you in all honesty, Like, where are you

489
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: personally emotionally great? I mean, I you know, I said this,

490
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: I've said this before that I wasn't angry. I was

491
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: just hurt. And the time has gone on that things

492
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: have changed and they're just there. Um, they're just doing

493
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: the same things, at least in college basketball that we

494
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: were doing. I mean on the digital space, you know

495
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: we uh, we were doing videos and things like that

496
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: and covering a lot of games, and um, they're just

497
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: not doing it anymore. And so what I'm doing for

498
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: March Madness is great. I mean, I'm actually talking to

499
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: more players, We're reaching more people and Uh, there's a

500
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: vacuum for it. I mean there was this other um

501
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: networks that we're doing a little of this, but now

502
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: really aren't. Um, maybe there are another sports, but I

503
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: you know that the team that we've got a Turner

504
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: because Turner Sports UM runs NT dot com and all

505
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: the March Madness account. I mean they're great, young, innovative

506
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: people that are always pushing to do more and uh

507
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: in this space. You know, we've got well over a

508
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: million followers on that on that that account, and the

509
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 1: schools have all bought in and the school has been

510
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: great sports informission director has been great, coaches players. Uh,

511
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: so that aspect has been very welcoming. And so yeah,

512
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: I do my podcast Marksmanness to sixty five through them

513
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: and then um, you know on air during the season

514
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: it's uh Fox Sports and Big ten Network and so yeah,

515
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: it's it's it's all working well. I mean I travel

516
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: more in the winter now then I probably did well. Yeah,

517
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: I mean I traveled a lot when I was early

518
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: on an ESPN, but I'm traveling a lot now in

519
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: the winner. But um, that's okay, is what it is.

520
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 1: I can't complain. And uh, but you know I definitely

521
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: feel like the same job doesn't exist at ESPN. So

522
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I was replaced or they're doing

523
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: all these things. It's just things have changed. Yeah yeah,

524
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: but they're still you are synonymous with the sport and

525
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: their coverage of the sport, right, I mean before I

526
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: got there, ah and and until I left. I know,

527
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: I know you're you're You're sneaky old. You're like like

528
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: Robert Flores works for MLBING. I tell him all the time,

529
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: Like Robert, like row Flow is a lot older than

530
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: you think because he's got a super young face and

531
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: like a young mind. But he's You're sneaky old. That's

532
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: what that's that's that's what your your favorite college basketball

533
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: player you ever covered? Wow? Um, you don't make me

534
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: think about that, Okay, you want to think about it.

535
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: I ask you your favorite your favorite venue you've ever worked.

536
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: I actually think I know the venue well. I will

537
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: say that. Um, I do love Allen. I think it's

538
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: the best in terms of the atmosphere. Uh what about

539
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: what about due? What Mr Kats? What about good like

540
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: Kevi Kimer and Do and Miski and Broy Will you sorry? Um?

541
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: More than the pit? Well? The pit was better early

542
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: when I was there in the nineties. I'm not talking

543
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: about it doesn't have any present day like I'm like,

544
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't think people understand it was. I mean, if

545
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: you want to go way back, if you want to

546
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: go way back when I was covering the whack Um,

547
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's still good. But d y U Maria

548
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: Center Um. I mean I've seen some great games in there,

549
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: twenty thousand streaming fans, especially the Holy War one is

550
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: against Utah. UM great venue. I will say this. In

551
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: another venue I have gone to more recently that I've

552
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: grown to appreciate that I think is one of the

553
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: five best in the country is Macki Arena. Um. The

554
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: way the sound echoes off the top arena, and they

555
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: did it, and they kept it, they kept it true

556
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: to what it is. It's it's an amazing it's an

557
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: amazing place. I I don't think it's the best arena,

558
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's the best arena in Indiana,

559
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: like like Hinkle's the best arena, like what they what

560
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,719
Speaker 1: they Hinkle was always great and then they redid it

561
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: and made it amazing. It's not as intimidating as the

562
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: pit as Mackie. But I think Hinkle brings in you know,

563
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: one the movie Hoosiers, but two unique architecture. It's kind

564
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: of got a retro cool feel to it. I think

565
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: Hinkel is is better. It's different, different, but Mackie is

566
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: is right there. I wish all the big ten schools

567
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: hadn't gone, Like I wish Wisconsin would play in their

568
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: old place. Michigan State should play in there, like Breslan

569
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: is great. But those old those old places, even with

570
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: the obstructive views, were amazing, really amazing. Oh yeah, the

571
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: old field House. When I was at school wisconsinin I

572
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: was saying, this is blasphemy and people were all just

573
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: as the stand bases do. Um, I agree with you.

574
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: I think Mackie and Hank are better than Assembly Hall. Um.

575
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: You know Assembly Hall sort of. Also the structure of it,

576
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: the way it goes, it goes um up and then out,

577
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like the seats way at the

578
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: top because they've moved the media section aren't great the

579
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: way it's way up there. And um, I just think

580
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: the other two are better. I know. It's not something

581
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: popular opinion in certain parts of Indiana. Okay, So let's

582
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 1: let's circle back. Your favorite college basket play you ever

583
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: covered on top of your head. So I didn't prep

584
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: you for this. It's better this way, I know, I know.

585
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: I will say this. In the most recent past, Grant

586
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: Williams has been one of my favorites. Unbelievable young man.

587
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna do great things with the Celtics.

588
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: Just such engaging personalities. I've loved dealing with him. Um, God,

589
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta think about this. Now you're gonna

590
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: make me make a list. There's Jimmer. Jimmer was fun.

591
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: We had the Gymmer movement, right, Um yeah, I think

592
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: you know obviously, I think you know JJ was so hated. Um,

593
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: there's you know, Jay Williams was was an amazing player.

594
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: You know. You can kind of go through your list

595
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: of dukies that you liked or didn't like, um, trying

596
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: to think who else like you would throw out there

597
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: that were that were guys that were just awesome, awesome,

598
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: you know obviously Aaron Craft, I'm I'm picking out like

599
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: all white white guys. I don't know why t J.

600
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: Sarantine and Taylor Cop and Wrath at Vermont although they

601
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: only won one game. Uh, Jerry McNamara, How great was

602
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: he in the in the Big East Tournament? And for

603
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: Syracuse Kim Warwick as well. Just his arms were like

604
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: go go, gadget arms. Umm one Dixon, it's pretty special.

605
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: When he was in Maryland, like, there's there's not a

606
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: guy like man. That's my grant. Williams is a good one.

607
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: Taylor is a good one. What about Miles? What about

608
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: Myles Sin? I mean we've had him on the pod.

609
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: He's my best friend. Uh. He's currently in Vegas showing

610
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: off about how he's got a couple of days off.

611
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: I think they're on some sort of retreat there with

612
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: the Lakers. Miles is ausome. Miles is interesting because here

613
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: he was academically ineligible the year they won the national championship, Right,

614
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: So that was that was fascinating, Like here's this, how's

615
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: the guy that's smart, I'm academically ineligible. I think we

616
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: know the answer of that one. Uh, Danny Granger when

617
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: he's in Mexico, you covered him, right? Uh No, that

618
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: was after me? Who who is the best player you

619
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: covered in Mexico? Um? Well, I covered Luke Longley for

620
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: one year. I forgot he covered. Uh you know. I

621
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: I've become friends with a couple of players that I

622
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: did cover back in the early nineties. Caharten, Jackson, Laddiman McCrary. Um, well,

623
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: I'll tell you even though I covered him during you know,

624
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: a really rough time in his life, another player become

625
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: friends with it. I loved covering was Chris Harrens. I

626
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: give me the best Frisden story that has not been told. Well,

627
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a funny one, which was when Damon

628
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: fourne I was standing there next to these extra park

629
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: there were about to go on the road trips Carr State, Wyoming,

630
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: and Damon says, shame, you know, coach, you know we'll worry.

631
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: We gotta go to Colorado because uh in Wyoming and

632
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: they got that stuff up there. You know they got

633
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Because we're talking about He goes, you

634
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: know they got all that stuff and he says, you

635
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: mean altitude and he says, yeah, we gotta play in that.

636
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: He says, don't worry, we're playing its side games indoors.

637
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: So there was every day it was an adventure. I'll

638
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: tell you that. I was. I was trying to describe

639
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: the pit to people, and I think, what makes what

640
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: made the pit and when they're good. What makes it

641
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: different is like, I don't actually know if there is

642
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: a New Mexic. I don't know if I know there's

643
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: people that walk around the campus. I don't know if

644
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: there's actually students, right. I just I've never met somebody

645
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: who's like, I, yeah, I went to New Mexico. I'm

646
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: a student. But what I do know is that in

647
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: most of these arenas, you try and hide the old

648
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: people from the TV cameras, right, because the old people,

649
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: the blue hairs, they're not getting into it. You know,

650
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: they're just sitting there grumbling if you're not playing well,

651
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: and they're cheering if you are playing well. Um, you know,

652
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: you look at at at some of the mistakes that

653
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: like Gonzagas Arena, they put the TV cameras on the

654
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: wrong side right so that they have they have the

655
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: it was a dog pound or whatever it is, uh,

656
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: but they they can't the kennel. That's what's called the kennel.

657
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: But you you don't understand that those they're standing and

658
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: jumping because you only see the tops of their heads,

659
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: whereas if you shot it from the other side, it

660
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: would look like everybody standing up the entire time. Right,

661
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: The difference at the pit is all of those old people.

662
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: They're just as crazy as the students are. And I

663
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: don't know what again, like, I don't know if the

664
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: students are older or if there's regular because the student

665
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: section is good, but you know there's I feel like

666
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 1: that's in addition to the way the building is built

667
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: being an altitude. It's like the protein in New Mexico.

668
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: The idea that the old people are just as vicious

669
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: and as nasty and as rowdy as the students. I

670
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: think that's what makes it unique. Well, I will tell

671
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: you that it's not only unique to there. I mean,

672
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: I think there's an older UM fan base. You know

673
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: that obviously is very vocal. I can talk to of

674
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: Kansas a lot of those schools where the school is

675
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: the main part of town. But there are students I've

676
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: met plenty of them that go to New Mexico. So

677
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: don't worry about that, UM can. I appreciate dog. I

678
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: have to run, okay, and Andy, Andy, thanks so much

679
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: for joining us. We'll talk soon, all right. Thanks. Six

680
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: thousand ish No, no, no, not even not even undergrad.

681
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: Undergrad was a couple of thousands when I was there,

682
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: it was about two and I want to say it

683
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: was that's crazy. So I mean it was it was

684
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: all male when you're there. No, no, no, no, it

685
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: had gone female. But it was probably the ratio was probably,

686
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: I want to say, five to one. We did a

687
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: lot of road tripping to Smith and Holyoak and Pine Manor.

688
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: I actually do know Mount Leo and you do mounta Leo.

689
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: It's in Hanover, New Hampshire, which is uh it's on

690
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: the Connecticut River, right, Um, smaller town. Yeah, it's like

691
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: eleven thousand people. What was it like to go to

692
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: school there? It was. It was tremendous. It was the

693
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: probably the best thing that well, and I want to

694
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 1: say the best thing but one of the great things

695
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: that I got I gained from from going to Dartmouth

696
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: is uh not and that is availed me to this day.

697
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 1: It was very valuable in going into sports and covering

698
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, worldwide globally known names. Is that you weren't

699
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: impressed by anybody's heritage or their name or because you

700
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: had you know, you had Rockefeller's, you had you had

701
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: like the sons and daughters of globally recognized people, and

702
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, if you saw it was how they carried

703
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 1: themselves on the campus. It was who they were as people, Uh,

704
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: and not what their name was or how much money

705
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: they had or fame or whatever it might be. If

706
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: people were you judge people based on who they were

707
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: and how they carried themselves and and and so you my,

708
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: I got past you know if being a kid from Ohio, Uh,

709
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: first and only person in my family go to college

710
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: and I'm going to an Ivy League school, and uh,

711
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: it just was a great lesson in that don't be

712
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: impressed or intimidated by what people have or what their

713
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: name is. Ah, judge them based on who they are

714
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: and and how they treat others. And and uh, that's

715
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: that's availed myself. That's availed me. It's been a tremendous value.

716
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: Uh my, my entire life, but especially in this in

717
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: this vocation. Okay, so you get out of Dartmouth, you

718
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: graduated with what what kind of degree from Darmouth? I

719
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: did not know this was going to be a biography

720
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: on on Buker. By the way, listen, I'm going to

721
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: do what the hell I want to do. It's my podcast,

722
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: It's about basketball. I'm getting to what I want to

723
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: get to. Everybody else just asked you, like LaMelo ball Lebron.

724
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: You are a Kobe suck up back in the day

725
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: and you guys had a falling out. I don't want

726
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: to get tell that I want to get to. I

727
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta process. Here. You graduated with what from Dartmouth?

728
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: God forbid that I get in the way of your process?

729
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: So what was the what was the question? What was

730
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: the next question? What was your degree from it? What

731
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: was your degree in a Dartmouth? I was an English

732
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: major with a honors thesis and creative writing. Okay, so

733
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: you want to be a writer? This is like the

734
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: perfect superliberal Dartmouth in the middle of the woods in Hanover,

735
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: New Hampshire is beautiful by like colden winter, but falls amazing, Right,

736
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: So did you in your mind blown up? I got

737
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: flown up there as a junior January, as a junior

738
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: in high school, got flown up on a Lockey jet

739
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: by the chairman of the Federated Federated Departments the department stores,

740
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: who happened to live in Cincinnati. And my mom worked

741
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: in the department store there and did alterations and she

742
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: ended up uh doing alterations for the wife of this chairman,

743
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 1: and they decided I thought it was gonna go wherever

744
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: I got the best soccer scholarship. That's where I thought

745
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: I was going to go, maybe the University of cincinnat

746
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: I had a North Carolina State, I had a couple

747
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: other other offers, UM and UH. And they decided, you

748
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: know what, we think our sons went to Dartmouth. We

749
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: think Rick should go to Dartmouth. And so they they

750
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: blazed the trail for me to get there. But we

751
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: flew up and I'm in a car and we're driving

752
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: across the campus for the first time in its evening,

753
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: and it was about twelve inches of fresh fall in snow,

754
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with the place instantly. I

755
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: was like, this is this place is amazing, most beautiful

756
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: place I'd seen, and just it the the intimacy of

757
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: it and UH and everything. I From that point on,

758
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: I was like, I will do whatever I need to

759
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: do to uh to find a way in the Dartmouth UM.

760
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: So yes, beautiful campus. So you guys, degree And did

761
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: you want to be a did you want to write novels?

762
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: Did you want to write like romance novels? Movies like

763
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 1: what what was your if? I would ask twenty two

764
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: year old Richard Buker, Yeah, fresh out of Dartmouth, what

765
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: he wanted to do? What would it be? No novelists,

766
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: for sure, But the big change for me. I originally

767
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: thought I was going to be a lawyer or an

768
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: attorney because I had to justify the cost of the

769
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: Ivy League school because they don't give athletic scholarships I had.

770
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: I was able to earn a couple of other other

771
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: scholarships while I was there, but I felt like I

772
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 1: had to justify the money that my family was spending

773
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: on my on my education. And so I figures either

774
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: doctor or a a lawyer, and I really couldn't see myself

775
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: as a doctor. And then I had an internship with

776
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated my junior summer and I this was at

777
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: the time of the Frank the Ford's and the Dan

778
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: Jenkins and you guys were all living around the you know,

779
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: wherever they wanted to in the country, and they were

780
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: parachuting in and doing these stories and telling the behind

781
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: the scenes stories, and I was like and seemed to

782
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: be making decent money. I was like, wow, what like

783
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: that would be cool? And so um, whether it was

784
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 1: being a novelist or you know, being the next Frank

785
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: the Ford, being the next Dan Jenkins writing books, writing novels, uh,

786
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: covering sports. Roger Angel from The New Yorker was an

787
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: early hero of mine. Like writing about sports in a

788
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: in a literally in a high literary way was was

789
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: my was my ambition, and it was shaped by the

790
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: combination of Dartmouth and Sports Illustrated And now, of course

791
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: you're big on Twitter. It's a joke and yeah, and

792
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: and and which which now you longer form. But when

793
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: bleacher first started, it was it was you know, aggregation

794
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: and top ten lists. You know, yeah they hired when

795
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: they hired me and a few few others, it was,

796
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, they they wisely looked at it. And there's

797
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: been a number of there's another number of other platforms

798
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: that started at the same time, none of which have

799
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: had the same success as Bleacher Report. And they took

800
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: a lot of the other platforms took the approach of

801
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: we're going to hire good writers and we're gonna we're

802
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: gonna put together, uh, you know, good quality editorial content

803
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: and that's how we're gonna build our audience. And Bleacher

804
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: Report basically said, we're gonna go the lowest common denominator.

805
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: We're just gonna we're gonna do whatever is going to

806
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: We're gonna go to the clickbait route. We're gonna do

807
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: whatever we think is going to cause people to look

808
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: at our content. We're gonna do slides, we're gonna do best,

809
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: worst we're gonna do and then and then we're backwards,

810
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: right and then and then they work backwards and then

811
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: so they built their audience and they built you know,

812
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: a following, and then they said, okay, now we want

813
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: to get credible. Now we want to do real stuff.

814
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: And uh, they hired me about five six years ago

815
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: as part of when's the credible when's the credibility start? Okay, So,

816
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: so what was your what was your first actual gig?

817
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: Was it Washington Post? Oh no, no, no, no no,

818
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 1: So I my first actual gig was First of all,

819
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: I was still even after you know the English thing

820
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: and everything, I thought, well, I need to make money,

821
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: and how am I going to make money? And I'm not.

822
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: Am I going to go straight back to Sports Illustrated?

823
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: Maybe that's not going to happen, and so, uh, and

824
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: everybody was going through corporate recruiting. So I thought, Okay,

825
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: maybe I'll go into advertising. I'll be like Elmore Leonard,

826
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: I'll i'll I'll write novels on the side and i

827
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: will uh and I'll work for that agency. I'll be

828
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: on the creative side. Well they were, they were interviewing

829
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: for corporate jobs and and but still I figured, let

830
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: me get in and then I'll figure my way to

831
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: get to where I want to when I get in.

832
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: So I interviewed with Leo Burnett, interviewed with Ogilvie Mather,

833
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: and I was thinking of going that direction. And I've

834
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: actually accepted a job with Leo Burnett. And then uh,

835
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,479
Speaker 1: somebody reached out to me from the school who knew

836
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: that I had taken had won the internship with Sports Illustrated,

837
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: and they said, hey, this is a little magazine, Yankee Magazine.

838
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: Uh that then they're looking for a you know, a

839
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: one year resident um editorial resident. Would you be interested?

840
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, So I drove down and

841
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: interviewed and I got I got that offer. And so

842
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: before I never got to Leo Burnette, I asked for

843
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: like a six month uh leave of absence because I

844
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: wanted to follow this writing bug, and about six weeks

845
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: in I realized I didn't want to go advertising. This

846
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: is what I wanted to do. So I did a

847
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: one year residency at Yankee Magazine, living in the publisher

848
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,959
Speaker 1: or the founders house, along with like five or six

849
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: other people who were put in various departments with the magazine.

850
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: And uh, and that's where I started. I started writing

851
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: freelance magazine pieces and wrote some pieces. I was just

852
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: supposed to be an editorial assistant, but I really wanted

853
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: to write, so I convinced them to let me. Right.

854
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: Uh did a piece on the inventor of the whiffleball,

855
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: went down and played him in a in a whiffleball game. Uh.

856
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: And uh that was That was a start. And I

857
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: took all it took all the my my half a

858
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: dozen clips or whatever, and thought I was going to

859
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: go to New York and I was going to get

860
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: in with Esquire magazine or somebody there. And they all said,

861
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: you need more experience, probably if you want to move quickly,

862
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: go work for a newspaper. And I didn't really want

863
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: to do that, but um that that led me to

864
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: go into San Diego and then went from indiego to

865
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: San Jose, and that's where I first started. After a

866
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: couple of years, started covering the Golden State Warriors in

867
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: the NBA, and then who was on the Warrior when

868
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: you start who was on the Warriors when you started

869
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,959
Speaker 1: covering him? Who was on the Warriors when I first

870
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: started coming where that was still that was at the

871
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: tail end of the run DMC so Tim Hardaway was

872
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: still there. It was right about the time that they

873
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: traded for the big big thing was that was I

874
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: got in there. I got there the year that they

875
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: tanked for Chris Webber. Uh, Gregg Popovitch was an assistant

876
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 1: coach for a year, then went to San Antonio. H

877
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: del Demps was a twelfth man. I mean, I look

878
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: at now like the number of guys that I got

879
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: to know very early on and the positions that they've

880
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: since held. It was it was a very fertile ground

881
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: for all the relationships in the network that I built.

882
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: Since it's interesting to bring up the tanking, even going

883
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:13,959
Speaker 1: back then, Uh, tanking and tampering big topics. Talk about

884
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: it then couldn't even use that word. We couldn't talk

885
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: about thanking. Yeah, No, it was like you absolutely denied

886
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: that you were tanking, no matter how blatant it was.

887
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: You know, Tim Hardaway had against the Clippers, had like

888
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: twenty five points in the first twenty nine minutes, and

889
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: then sat the fourth quarter and we went to ask Nelly,

890
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: you know why, you know, why didn't he play? And

891
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: he said, well, his knee was acting up. And we

892
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: went to talk to Tim and Tim said Tim didn't

893
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: even know its knee it was that was supposed bothering him. No,

894
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: not a whole lot of coordination and communication there as

895
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: he drank at this time. I also give you a

896
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: sense of how different things were. Uh, he had just

897
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: he had one of those big plastic cups and had

898
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: would like two to twelve ouncers in there. And you

899
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: knew that with Hardaway at that time, if he was

900
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: a little like salty and you weren't getting anything good,

901
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: you just you kind of go and talk to other

902
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 1: guys and you come back around once he was halfway

903
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: into that cup, and you'd really get some good quotes

904
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: from from from Timmy. So one of the many things

905
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: transformations that we've seen as far as the league is concerned.

906
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: What do you think of what the commissioners laid down

907
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: with these new tampering roles. I think it's window dressing,

908
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: and it's, um, you know, the most interesting part. And

909
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you've talked about it, or

910
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: you've I've I've seen other people talk about it, but

911
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: this really came up just last night for me. I

912
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: was texting a couple of executives and various people, just

913
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: just getting their take on on a few different things,

914
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: and well, with one of them, I asked, I said,

915
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: what do you make of the fine on the bucks?

916
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: And he he said, he goes, I can't comment because

917
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if my phone is going to be

918
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: one of the ones that the league is going to

919
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: randomly if we're one of the five teams that the

920
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:24,479
Speaker 1: league randomly checks and they confiscate our phones like we're

921
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: on we're under orders now, no off the record text conversations.

922
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: And I gotta tell you, man, when I look, I mean,

923
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: I know how I operate, and I don't even operate

924
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: as a full time you know, news breaking guy per se.

925
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: But I think of guys like charms and woes and

926
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: like their whole lives. Don't you only think at what'sapp

927
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 1: or what's what's mark Cubans, Uh, cyber dust or something

928
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, Um, we'll see, we'll see of that goes.

929
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: I mean it, but but guys are going to have

930
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: to go to that in order to I just I

931
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: wonder how much of a freeze this is going to

932
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: put on the conversations, the off the record conversation that

933
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: that that executives are are willing to have and staying

934
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: ahead of the news and and and all of that

935
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: because it does they are feeling like this could be

936
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: a huge invasion of privacy. And I can tell you

937
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: at the same time, having talked to an owner about

938
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: what those meetings were like in the conversation that there

939
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: was a great there was great concern about this, and

940
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: Silver basically said to the owners, look, we need to

941
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: get something out there. We'll figure out like what it

942
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: looks like will make it palatable, but it's important that

943
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: we make a statement now that we are addressing that.

944
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: So that was really what was behind this. They haven't

945
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: they haven't figured out what the owners and the executives

946
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: are going to be comfortable with. It was more of

947
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: we just want to let the viewing public know and

948
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: perhaps the small market fans more than anything else that

949
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: we are concerned and we want to address this, uh,

950
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 1: this issue, even though I'll be honest, Doug, I don't

951
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: know how the league operates if you don't allow tampering.

952
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: I don't and I don't think it's and I think

953
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: the small markets could be hurt by it as well,

954
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: because but that's what this is about, the right, which

955
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: which is this with the small market, Like the small

956
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: markets don't believe they can legitimately compete, you know that

957
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:44,959
Speaker 1: they're that there's just the haves and the have nots,

958
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 1: and they're becoming even more and more the have nots

959
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: and there never but there but but nothing's going to

960
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: change because of these tampering roofs. Guys are still going

961
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: We're going to want to go to the bigger markets

962
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: that can attract the bigger you know, the bigger team

963
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: teammates and and all of that. That's not going to

964
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: change with the anti pampering. And what happens instead, or

965
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: what I anticipate happening, is that for small markets like Milwaukee,

966
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: where where you get the temperature and you realize, you

967
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: know what, I can't my star is leaving, So who

968
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: on the market can I get so that I can

969
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: still be competitive and rather than putting all my eggs

970
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: in the I'm gonna try to keep Kevin Durant, I'm

971
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: gonna try to keep Paul George or whoever it is.

972
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and get you know, the second

973
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: tier guy or a young guy, or I'm gonna move

974
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: him early. It's it. I think that this is actually

975
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: going to hurt the smaller markets because they're not going

976
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: to be able to, uh to activate their plan b's

977
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: and c's and no, definitively, yeah, you know what, we

978
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: don't have a chance of keeping this guy. If everything

979
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: starts on July one and it's an equal race, Well,

980
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: now you're gonna find out. You know, you're not gonna

981
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: keep the guy, but now you're gonna keep the guys

982
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: so much later in the process that you're gonna wind

983
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: up not being able to to to compensate and do

984
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, it's a lot about intended consequences right

985
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: where you The intended consequences are to cut the tampering out.

986
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: The unintended consequences are all this other stuff. I don't

987
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: understand the Milwaukee finding finding them like everyone in the

988
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: world knows they can offer him the super Max and

989
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: what's and what Excuse me, but what's the tampering, Like

990
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: it's your it's your own guy. I know you can't

991
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: say he's a league m v P. We're gonna I mean,

992
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: I don't even know that you need to say it,

993
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 1: but it for your fans. You want them to know, Yes,

994
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: of course we're gonna take care of our guy. We're

995
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: gonna get into Supermax, etcetera. It just seems like it's

996
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: such a banal thing. I mean, that's that's your first

997
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 1: That's the first flag that you plant in the ground

998
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: about how you're approaching this, is that you're gonna hit

999
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: the small market team that wants to give the super

1000
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: Max to its league m VT. It just it's not

1001
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 1: a good look. I mean, it just seems kind of

1002
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: ludicrous that that's if first impressions are what this is

1003
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: all about. The first impression is Okay, this doesn't make

1004
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: any sense. You're not addressing what really needs to be addressed,

1005
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: which is magic Johnson going on a late night talk

1006
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: show and making it clear to Paul George and everyone

1007
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: in the world, yes, we're gonna be going after Paul

1008
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: George from the Indiana Pacers. That that to me is

1009
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: where you where you crack down on somebody, not not this.

1010
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: Do you think I think you tell me if I'm wrong.

1011
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: I feel like to the basketball world, everybody in the

1012
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: league knows who Magic is, right, Like, he didn't really

1013
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: want to work that the heart of the job, you know,

1014
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: it just he just as my chess. He still has

1015
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: a very much a presence in the basketball world where

1016
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: he walks into a room and he's Magic Johnson. I'm

1017
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: not gonna say he's laughed at. But it was generally

1018
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: thought to be not the tightest ship in the world,

1019
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: and one that was. It was just it was just bizarre,

1020
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: right Like, here's the guy who said, like, I don't

1021
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: want to show up at work every day, but I

1022
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: want to make all the decisions. I feel like to

1023
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: the basketball world, that got exposed and people nod their

1024
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: head and understand it. I don't know, do you think

1025
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: real world magic is still magic or did this really

1026
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: hurt him? Real world? Like you and I don't live

1027
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: in the real world. We live in there. We live

1028
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: in the world of sports. Right in sports kind of

1029
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: knew the deal, kind of know the deal, kind of

1030
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: felt weird you know, but in the real world, do

1031
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: you think anybody thinks differently of magic after this last

1032
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: about with bit with the Lakers. I don't know that

1033
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: they've thought that much about I don't know that this

1034
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: bout with the Lakers change aims the view on magic dramatically,

1035
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: because I don't know that in the real world people

1036
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: were still thinking about Magic Johnson in any meaningful way.

1037
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: I put him in the Larry King category of a

1038
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: guy who you kind of found, like his tweets and

1039
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: his observations to be either incredibly obvious or dated, but

1040
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,439
Speaker 1: you didn't look at them as as you once did,

1041
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: as like a powerhouse, as a as a force in

1042
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: their particular industries. It's like it's a familiar name, like

1043
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that guy, Oh yeah, that was you know

1044
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: him from the highlights, but you didn't really know anything

1045
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: else about him. And so I think in the in

1046
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: the real world it's magic. Magic doesn't carry the same

1047
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, presence as anywhere close to the same

1048
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: press and as as he once did. I don't I

1049
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: don't know that, you know, twenty somethings, thirty somethings think

1050
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: of Magic Johnson as some hallowed, as some hallow guy.

1051
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: I don't think they thought about him a whole lot period,

1052
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: to be honest with you. Uh so one of his

1053
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if fid comb plea, but drafting Alonzo Ball.

1054
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: I know friends that we're at those workouts and it's like,

1055
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: look a Lonzo's workout wasn't good when he was there

1056
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: and they had that secret workout, you know, undisclosed location,

1057
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: and it wasn't great. Um, they thought Dear and Fox

1058
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: was better. And then you know, I mean, truth be told.

1059
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: I know that everybody's kind of acting, uh like like

1060
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: Utah got this incredible steel. But you know, if you

1061
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: if you ask people, they'd say best workout we had

1062
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: was Donovan Mitchell bar None. But Magic was hyper focused

1063
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: on Alonzo. They thought he could be Jason Kidd slash

1064
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,479
Speaker 1: Alonzo Ball. Alonzo obviously got got got dealt. And there's

1065
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of ironies they mentioned earlier, like I

1066
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: think his dad actually helped him get drafted by the Lakers.

1067
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: But the shoe is a big reason why he's not

1068
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: with the Lakers because the shoe kept breaking down and

1069
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: that's what led to his That's what they think led

1070
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: to his You know his bad ankle injury this this

1071
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: past year, and when you don't not out of sight,

1072
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: out of mind, the team tanks without him there. It's

1073
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: completely different. So now he's gone, LaMelo now because he's

1074
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: played pretty well in Australia, is moving up draft boards.

1075
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: I also think part of it is we haven't had

1076
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: college bass, we haven't seen Cole Anthony play. I think

1077
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: that's the level outs him. What do you think of

1078
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: the LaMelo ball now suddenly becoming a viable top five,

1079
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: top ten draft pick. I think it's just as you

1080
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: you said, first of all, out of sight, out of mind. Um, yeah,

1081
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: I don't know how many scouts are over in Tanzania

1082
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: right now or like over there getting you know, the

1083
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: full width and breadth of what he's doing, him playing

1084
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: the supposedly a bunch supposedly a bunch went to you know,

1085
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: they're got down to see both those kids playing. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no,

1086
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: I get that, But I mean they've just started to

1087
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: It's not like you have you watched them for a

1088
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: season or you've you certainly there. I'm not saying that

1089
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: there are any scouts down there, it's just you know,

1090
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: how long have they been down there, what have they seen,

1091
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: They've been to practices, etcetera. There's there's there's a lot

1092
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: that's going to go into determining whether you're gonna take

1093
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: LaMelo as a number one pick. And I do think

1094
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: that Dad still is a factor in a negative way

1095
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: because of all that happened with Lonzo and things that

1096
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: the Lakers have to go through. People are gonna people

1097
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: are gonna look at that not in a positive way.

1098
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: That's why you know when people are saying this duo

1099
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: LaVar of an apology because LaMelo now could be, you know,

1100
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: the number one pick. Well, first of all, who's saying

1101
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: he's going to be the number one pick? Like it's

1102
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: so it's so premature, it's it's insane. I mean, as

1103
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: you said, whether it's James Wiseman or or Cole Anthony

1104
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: or Anthony Edwards uh or even r J. I I

1105
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: Hampton is down there, like is he is he? I

1106
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean if he's the if he's the

1107
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: sixth or seventh pick, it's still an amazing thing that

1108
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: LaVar Ball had two sons who are who are lottery picks.

1109
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: That's an amazing thing. On the other hand, like are

1110
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: we gonna make as much a deal of it if

1111
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 1: he's you know, if he's if he's a top ten pick,

1112
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: as opposed to somebody throws it out there, he's gonna

1113
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: be the number one pick. Well, the way his his

1114
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: I will say that he doesn't play d and that

1115
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: his shot selection is still questionable. I still feel as if,

1116
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, unless those things change dramatically, I don't see

1117
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: a way in which he is gonna be in the

1118
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: number one pick. I still have plenty of skepticism left

1119
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: to believe that, you know, talking about him as the

1120
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: number one pick is wildly premature, not only because of

1121
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: the time of year, because based on what I've seen

1122
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: him as a player. Do yeah, Look, my thing is,

1123
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: I you know, I think he has played against older guys,

1124
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: which which has prepared him for this. Um, you know,

1125
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: and if you don't can't guard yeah, health count the

1126
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: fact that he's playing against men now is a is

1127
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: a big plus. That that that is uh, that that

1128
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: was a smart move on their part. Yes, And I

1129
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: think also getting him out from the watch of his

1130
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: dad was a smart move as well. Like that's probably

1131
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: the key. Like I didn't have a problem with with

1132
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: Lithuania I just put him on a legit Lithuanian team

1133
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: and train with those guys and hands off, and I

1134
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: think all of them that you know, they would be

1135
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: all be better off. I'll be real basketball, learned to

1136
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: be tough and and physical. Um. Look, he's big, he

1137
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: obviously can pass, feels like he can shoot better than

1138
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: his brother. I don't know, you know, obviously the thought

1139
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: as his brother has become a very good athlete, you know,

1140
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: maybe LaMelo kind of grows into his body something. He

1141
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: doesn't look like a great athlete, looks like more just

1142
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: long and sinewy. But it's it's we we do. We

1143
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: have this tendency to overreact. We forget that this time.

1144
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: Last year's Ian Williamson was probably not a top ten pick.

1145
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: He just wasn't. So I actually asked you about Dartmouth.

1146
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: One reason was you talked about a transformative player. And

1147
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I you know, I do think

1148
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: we don't use transformative player in the right way. And

1149
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: what I mean by by that is like, what's the

1150
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: definition of transformative causing a mark change in something? Right?

1151
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: And if we look at if if and so that's

1152
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: why Draymond is really a transformative player because we never

1153
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: thought that a six ft five college power forward could

1154
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: become the best. He's really the best defensive center in

1155
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: the league because he can guard every position, right, we

1156
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: didn't think that. Now you bring in a left handed,

1157
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: freak athlete who's six five and change whatever look like

1158
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: a football player. Can he take that to the next time.

1159
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if he'd be a transformative player. I

1160
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: don't know if that means he'll be a superstar. I

1161
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: I don't think he'll be Lebron James. I think anybody

1162
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: who's told you he's going to be Lebron or going

1163
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: to be a a you know, once in a generation pro,

1164
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of unreasonable. I do think he

1165
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: has a chance to be transformative in that he's got

1166
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: some Barkley, he's got some Lebron, he's got some Draymond

1167
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 1: to him, and Draymond started really the true small ball

1168
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: center revolution. And if here's a kid who can legit

1169
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 1: play on offense as well as defense, Draymond most of

1170
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: what he does on offenses pass, I think there there

1171
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: he'd be a great player. And even if he's not

1172
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: a league m v P or a top five in

1173
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: the league guy. I still think that would live up

1174
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: to the building if he's built properly, if he changes,

1175
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: if he becomes the new template the way Draymond became,

1176
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: the way Lebron James in his way became, And there

1177
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: is a connection between those two. I mean, we talk

1178
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: about them, they're they're different players, but if we're talking

1179
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: in the context of transformative of you're right, I I

1180
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: agree with that, but he can't be Like the suggestion was,

1181
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: if he's Draymond Green and he has Draymond Green's career,

1182
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: then is that a success? And I would say no

1183
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: in conjunction with being a transformative player, because then he

1184
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: would be the next Draymond Green. And he's not supposed

1185
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: to be the next Draymond Green. He's supposed to be

1186
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: the first Zion Williamson. He's supposed to introduce something brand new,

1187
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: and I what I struggle with, I guess is I

1188
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: don't know what that is that he's going to introduce.

1189
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: He is a physical freak, he is a physical wonder.

1190
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: But it still comes back to what made Lebron James

1191
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: transformative is the skill set in that athleticism. What made

1192
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: Draymond Green transformative is his defensive i Q and his

1193
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: A bill, his versatility defensively, that that made things different.

1194
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: I'm being a freak athlete on the level of Zion,

1195
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: just at the NBA level. We've just seen plenty of

1196
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: freak athletes and they don't leave that mark. But they

1197
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 1: don't they don't transform the game like I don't even

1198
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: know that you'd say that Russ Westbrook, pound for pound,

1199
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 1: has transformed the point guard position. So that's where that's

1200
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,560
Speaker 1: where I look. I'm not a rust guy, but he

1201
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,600
Speaker 1: has average of trouble double the last three years. I

1202
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: don't know if that's transformative, but it's completely changed the

1203
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: way we look at stats. Um, I would say this.

1204
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: I would think he's taking advantage of the way the

1205
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: game has changed. Agree. I agree. Look there's there's more possessions,

1206
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: more shots, more rebounds, um, no, no question. And he

1207
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 1: dominates the ball. His his his usage rating is through

1208
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: the roof and that that's a big reason why. And

1209
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: yes he's a he benefits greatly from the way and

1210
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: basketball is played now. UM. But I don't know if

1211
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 1: Zion has been sold to you the right way, like

1212
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 1: I I think he has a I don't know if

1213
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: he has Draymond Green or Lebron's basketball I cube, but

1214
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty good, and he's a pretty good passer. He

1215
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: can unlike either of those other two. He can legit

1216
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 1: dominate score in the post, like Lebron has never really

1217
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: been a post player, and Draymond is not an offensive

1218
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 1: post player. You can't. Um, I would assume that he'll

1219
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: be able to have the same sort of defense, like

1220
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: he can legit guard one through five, which Draymond can do,

1221
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 1: but with real quickness more so than toughness and intelligence.

1222
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,759
Speaker 1: And Lebron used to be able to Lebron's never Lebron

1223
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: never really been able to guard five. But I also

1224
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: think he's a ridiculous competitor, and um, I think that

1225
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: makes up for a lot. I think that makes up

1226
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: for a lot. I want to ask you kind of

1227
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of coo, right, you were right on the first thing,

1228
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: and that I that Zion has been sold to me

1229
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 1: in a completely wrong way, because all I have heard

1230
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 1: is that he's the next Lebron and he's the next

1231
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: transformative player, and I'm like, I can tell you right

1232
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: now he's not, because he's not going to come in

1233
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: at the same level that Lebron came in, and he's

1234
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to play the same role that

1235
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: Lebron played. And when you don't have the ball in

1236
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: your hands, that changes everything in terms of the impact

1237
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: that you're going to make. And he's not going to

1238
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: have the ball in his hands at the beginning. I agree,

1239
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: but it's actually one of the things I liked about

1240
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: him going to Duke is that he didn't have the

1241
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: ball in his hands a ton and he still found

1242
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: a way to impact a game at both ends of

1243
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: the floor, which so few. Most guys are R J. Barrett.

1244
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 1: They can't play without the ball and the balls on

1245
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: their hands and they don't know what to do with themselves.

1246
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: You know, Um, I got I got to a cup

1247
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: more for you USA basketball Now, Look, we can call

1248
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: it whatever we want, Um, You and I have seen

1249
01:10:57,840 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: the rest of the world start to catch up. But

1250
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: we also know that that's a different game. It's officiated differently,

1251
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: it's played differently, it's different. So we we did know

1252
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 1: this day was coming. I don't know if we thought

1253
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: the awakening would be this great. Um. Now staff is

1254
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: committed to playing and I'm sure most of the big

1255
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: boys will do it. It'll be great branding. But what

1256
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: do you think the future of USA basketball looks like?

1257
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 1: Based on what we've seen, I can see us going

1258
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 1: through these cycles of guys wanting to you know, various

1259
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: versions of the redeem team or what the originally the

1260
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: original Dream Team was sort of a redeem team. We'd

1261
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: lost and we needed to reassert our our dominance, and

1262
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: so so we did. So we got our best and

1263
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 1: we sent them and then it becomes you know, diminishing

1264
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: value and returns and guys beg off and then we lose,

1265
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 1: and then we got to do it again. I just

1266
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 1: at some point, I feel as if Team you say,

1267
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: being a marketing arm of the NBA will no longer

1268
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: be necessary because the NBA will be marketed through a

1269
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 1: variety of players that are playing both for Team USA

1270
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. And I feel as if this year was

1271
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: really the first step where we see a marcasol Uh

1272
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: wins a NBA championship, Annie wins a World Cup title.

1273
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: Ricky Rubio is the m v P of of the

1274
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 1: World Cup. And so you have NBA players that are

1275
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,520
Speaker 1: demonstrating that they can play the game to be successful

1276
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: on a global scale, and the place that you can

1277
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: come watch the play is in the NBA, and so

1278
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: that accomplishes what the league what what the league really wants.

1279
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: And this whole this is what I find fascinating about

1280
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: the difference in the way we look at basketball in

1281
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: in international circles and we look at our other sports

1282
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: and our other athletes are other athletes. We support them

1283
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: because they're Americans and they're competing for us, and whether

1284
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: they finish with a bronze or they finish, you know,

1285
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: in the top ten or whatever it might be, like,

1286
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: we we support them and we love what they give

1287
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: with with basketball. If we're not winning gold, then we

1288
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: really don't care. And I don't even know how much

1289
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: we really care about the actual games. We just want

1290
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: to be able to say that we've won gold, right

1291
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: and and and and and I that just seems a

1292
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: little quaint to me that we it's it's we need

1293
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 1: to win gold, but we don't really care. We're not

1294
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: gonna watch I mean, we don't care. We just want

1295
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 1: to say that we've won gold. And I feel as if,

1296
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: look if we if we just look at it as

1297
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: a way of developing our young players, and we don't

1298
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: take it as a referendum on where the state of

1299
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 1: basketball is and what the United States BASKETBA ball seen

1300
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 1: means or what the NBA where it stands in the

1301
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: hierarchy of teams in in the world. I think we're

1302
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: past that, but I think at some point we will

1303
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 1: collectively get past that and it just won't be the

1304
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, the bell weather of what of how basketball,

1305
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: the level of basketball globally is viewed in the United States.

1306
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I I thought we should have gone back

1307
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 1: to the college players. Problem is there's just uh yeah,

1308
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: um and and and but we have to have the

1309
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 1: understanding that we're gonna take some else. So you almost

1310
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: feel like, all right, let's go out and win the

1311
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: Olympics one more time and then go, okay, we're done,

1312
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, And now it's going to be a two

1313
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: and under team. Right, We're just we're gonna do with

1314
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 1: our kids. And if the rest of the world wants

1315
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: to send their adults and beat us, fine, We're okay

1316
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 1: with that. Right well, you know, we just um, you know,

1317
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: it all started in eight eight when John Thompson picked

1318
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,560
Speaker 1: a bad team, you know, didn't have enough shooting, and

1319
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 1: they got beat by great players from Yugoslavia, um, and

1320
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 1: and the Russians were great, but they had you know,

1321
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: all this, they had Lithuanians and everything else. And we

1322
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 1: kind of panicked and and decided, all right, we're gonna

1323
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 1: flex our muscles here and show everybody how great we are.

1324
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 1: And the world was kind of caught up a little bit,

1325
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 1: girls caught up more than a little bit. And I

1326
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: thought Pop made a great point, or maybe it was

1327
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: Kobe who said, like, look, people forget redeem team almost

1328
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 1: lost to Spain. Man, that was a really close game.

1329
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: Like again, like like you said, nobody watched the game.

1330
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 1: They just like, oh we won, okay, good, we're good.

1331
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,759
Speaker 1: Then we're good. Then we're still the best, still the best.

1332
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: America is still the best. And um, to those of

1333
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: us who watched, we know that like that this is

1334
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: their super Bowl, that this is their style of basketball

1335
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: that they they I don't and I don't actually know

1336
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: if they respect the way Americans play all that much.

1337
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:51,560
Speaker 1: And you know, we used to make the case. We

1338
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 1: used to make the case. Wow, you know, our guys

1339
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: don't play together that much, like near to there's I'll

1340
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: play on different teams in the States, you know, and

1341
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: they still I mean, Argentina don't have any NBA players

1342
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 1: and they figure out a way to to get silver. So, um,

1343
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: it's a it's a fast a couple of as quick hitters.

1344
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: Here does the rockets thing work? What does? What? What

1345
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 1: does work mean? What? What's what? Championship in Boston finals? Bust?

1346
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: I mean? Are they better with Russell Westbrook than they

1347
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: were with Chris Paul? They're not? Are they better? Yes,

1348
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: they're better? Do they get any further? No? Uh, if

1349
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: you had to bet all of you, if you had

1350
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: to bet all of your surfboards, would you bet them

1351
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: on the Clippers or the Lakers? Clippers. It's gonna be

1352
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 1: interesting though, because because you know, those guys coming together

1353
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: sounds good, but you know Paul George coming up dual

1354
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: shoulder surgery, He's like never healthy, He's never healthy, And

1355
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: then why what's in place? Sixty games this year? And

1356
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: then they have to completely change the dynamic of their

1357
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: team and they're not going to have their whole team

1358
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: the whole year, So it'll be it'll be fascinating. Well,

1359
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,799
Speaker 1: on the other hand, you know how often has Anthony

1360
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 1: Davis been healthy the entire year? Lebron James did we

1361
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: see the first time where he really has to manage

1362
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: his minutes and his health to stay healthy. What does

1363
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: the rest of that team look like? And who's going

1364
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: to be the coach of that team at the end

1365
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 1: of the year mhm hm Doc. And the fact that

1366
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: Doc is going to be the coach and Doc has

1367
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 1: dealt with all of this once before to me and

1368
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: bringing this together and making it work. I mean, it

1369
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: is just a vast amount of experience, and he's got

1370
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: a resume that those guys will pay attention to. Frank

1371
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: simply does not no offense the Frank who I like,

1372
01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 1: when did Kevin Durant become this guy? Just seems so unpleasable.

1373
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: I would say that he has he has long been

1374
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 1: that guy. But where it really turned would be being

1375
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma City and then going through that. I mean,

1376
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 1: I would say maybe it starts with when they went

1377
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 1: to the finals, and if I'm not mistaken, they were

1378
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 1: at least one point favored, and the way the dissatisfaction

1379
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 1: and the questions about who he was as a player

1380
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:54,599
Speaker 1: when all of that came around on him, I believe

1381
01:18:54,800 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 1: that that that changed something in him and he decided,

1382
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 1: you know what, I I'm gonna set my own path.

1383
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm not gonna listen to anybody

1384
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: else about what it is they think I need to

1385
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 1: do to be successful. And now it leaves him with

1386
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 1: what does define success? What's what defines success? From me?

1387
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: He in some ways it reminds me a little bit

1388
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 1: of Aaron Rodgers and that they both they ultimately got

1389
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: to the top of the mountain. And Aaron Rodgers is

1390
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: famous for saying, you know, he's thought about it, and

1391
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: after he won the Super Bowl and he's like, is

1392
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: that it is? That all there is? Like is that

1393
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 1: this is what was supposed to be the be all

1394
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 1: in the end all? And I feel as if Kevin

1395
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: Iss has gone through a similar similar thing. And I

1396
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 1: don't know that I think he's looking for I think

1397
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 1: he's looking for completion and uh, you know, finding that

1398
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:05,479
Speaker 1: at his his the fullness of being in basketball. And

1399
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,720
Speaker 1: I think we both know from our experiences if you're

1400
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 1: looking to find that through your vocation, you're always going

1401
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 1: to be searching, searching, You're always going to be thinking

1402
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 1: that there's something missing. If that's if that's how you're

1403
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 1: going to define success in your life top of the

1404
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 1: mountain has no chairs. It just doesn't there's no chairs

1405
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,640
Speaker 1: to sit up there and enjoy it. I think he

1406
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,800
Speaker 1: thought he'd be beloved, like, hey, I beat Lebron, like yeah,

1407
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 1: but she joined the Warriors, like okay, but I beat Lebron.

1408
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 1: I was better than Lebron. I guarded Lebron and I

1409
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 1: beat him like yeah. And you know, just way too

1410
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: apt to turn to social media, which you're never going

1411
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: to get the love and affirm me. You're just just

1412
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 1: not you just you get the other part, you get

1413
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 1: the bitterness of it. He's such a magnificent talent. Like

1414
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 1: I tol Danny meantingnild Bill self when he went in there,

1415
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: and he's like, look, I know this is what Danny

1416
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 1: Manning said. Who might be the greatest Kansas player ever?

1417
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 1: You know him? And Will He's like and he was

1418
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: an assistant on the bench, and he will say to

1419
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,919
Speaker 1: this day, the baddest motherfucker to play at fag Allenfield

1420
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 1: House was Kevin Durant as a freshman of Texas. I mean,

1421
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: let's I mean that guy could play, and he did

1422
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 1: seem to play with a smile on his face, but

1423
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 1: he just became this guy, which is like, you know,

1424
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 1: in what world did he think that fans in Oklahoma

1425
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 1: City were gonna be cool with him not just leaving

1426
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 1: their team but going to the Warriors who just beat

1427
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:32,560
Speaker 1: them when they had three games one league? Like what

1428
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: world does he live in? But I thought they went

1429
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: over the top of the cupcakes things. But what like

1430
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: what world? But you just brought up Yeah, I think you.

1431
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 1: I think you pointed out and I was kind of

1432
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 1: searching for it, but I think you pointed out ultimately

1433
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:53,679
Speaker 1: what changed and why he's searching is because number one,

1434
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant is trying to define his happiness based on

1435
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:02,799
Speaker 1: how other people perceived him, and he's you know, obviously

1436
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 1: you never win that battle because you're always going to

1437
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: have people who are going to find fault with something

1438
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: about you. But as he was coming up, there was

1439
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: no finding fault with Kevin Durant. He was he was beloved,

1440
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: he was respected, he was admired far more than then

1441
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 1: I think he imagined, and so it was all good.

1442
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: And then it became like, okay, but I like, this

1443
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 1: is how I want to be perceived, and he hasn't

1444
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: been able to control that, and nor will he ever

1445
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 1: be able to control that. But that's what he's trying

1446
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 1: to do, is he's trying to He's trying to have

1447
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: everybody see him the way he wants to be seen,

1448
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: the way he wants to be seen, to be respected

1449
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: for what he wants to be respected, and and that

1450
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 1: keeps moving, like as he evolved, that keeps changing. There

1451
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 1: was like, okay, you know what people are talking about

1452
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:00,360
Speaker 1: you as being better than Lebron James. It's like, hey, yeah,

1453
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: but I want to be I want to be beloved

1454
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: like Lebron James, or I want to be seeing like

1455
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 1: the businessman like for all my global success and all

1456
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: that stuff. And so he keeps moving. He keeps moving

1457
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: the goalpost too. It's a fascinating it's a fascinating subject.

1458
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:16,560
Speaker 1: But I think that's a lot a lot of it

1459
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 1: is like he's looking for he's looking for fulfillment in

1460
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 1: external elements that are controlled by people beyond him, and

1461
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 1: that is impossible, that that's a torturous place to be.

1462
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 1: And then there's Kobe and you and I we we

1463
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 1: would have back in the old ESPN days, we'd have

1464
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: a back and forth on Kobe and I remember when

1465
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:42,479
Speaker 1: he told you he wanted to be traded, right obviously

1466
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: all the personal stuff he went through, and there was

1467
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 1: legit concern from people I know, like, dude, when Kobe

1468
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: starts playing basketball, what is he going to do? Like

1469
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 1: he has no hobbies, no hobbies. And then he he

1470
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 1: tours Achilles Tendon and my kids were in the same

1471
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: school with his, with his daughters as two older daughters

1472
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,639
Speaker 1: at the time, and like he became kind of dad Kobe.

1473
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: And then he you know, he's super interested in the

1474
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 1: film stuff and the books and all that other stuff.

1475
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 1: And now he's back in basketball with mom Academy, which

1476
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 1: he does some stuff with and going around and parachuting

1477
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:16,720
Speaker 1: in and working guys out, and he has his daughter's team.

1478
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 1: He actually sent me videos of his six favorite sets

1479
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,839
Speaker 1: that they run. It was amazing. Like I just randomly

1480
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: driving home the other day, what do you think? And

1481
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm like Kobe Bryant sending me and I was like,

1482
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: I like it, like a little pistol action, this is nice,

1483
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 1: but it's it is it's but you covered the whole thing,

1484
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,559
Speaker 1: like you know, the whole thing. What do you think

1485
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:41,080
Speaker 1: of where Kobe is as opposed to where you thought

1486
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 1: Kobe might be you know, a couple of five years

1487
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:48,519
Speaker 1: into retirement. Oh, I I thought that I didn't know

1488
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 1: where he was gonna he was going to channel that

1489
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,600
Speaker 1: competitive fire, and I thought he was going to have

1490
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: he was gonna struggle with that as much as as

1491
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 1: Michael has and and at least did. And the one

1492
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 1: element you bring up that I now taken consideration. And

1493
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: I remember him distinctly saying, like when he was going

1494
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: through the whole retirement thing, and uh, and we were

1495
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 1: getting down to the last couple of days and he

1496
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: and I walked out of the Staples Center one day

1497
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:20,120
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I gotta tell you, you're

1498
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: handling this really well and far better than I thought

1499
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: you would. And he he looked, he kind of smirked,

1500
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: and he goes, you don't think I was Michael, did you?

1501
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,600
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I did. I did. I

1502
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:37,760
Speaker 1: thought exactly what I thought. And this is the one

1503
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,760
Speaker 1: thing that that I had known about him for over

1504
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 1: the years. Like there's times where and I'd be texting

1505
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 1: about something, right ask him about something he really didn't

1506
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: want to get into it, or it gets salty about it.

1507
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 1: It would be tough. But if you ever brought up

1508
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,640
Speaker 1: family or kids. The dude became like a marshmallow. He

1509
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,160
Speaker 1: was just he would gosh, you would do like whatever.

1510
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: He was just always respond and he and he always

1511
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 1: had that element. And so what I see him doing

1512
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 1: now is kind of pouring himself into this other element,

1513
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: which is whether it's with the you know, he's he's

1514
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 1: got these these books that he's writing for kids and uh,

1515
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: you know, empowering young young women and coaching his daughters

1516
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:27,479
Speaker 1: and like that. I see him following another vein that

1517
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 1: was that he was very passionate about And that does

1518
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 1: distinguish him because for all I knew about Michael, you know,

1519
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 1: there wasn't like family and his kids and all. That

1520
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 1: wasn't really a big big factor for him. No, No,

1521
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 1: it's it's it's fascinating. And like Michael then looked great.

1522
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: And I know he's older, but don't you know he

1523
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 1: does doesn't look great. No worries Kobe and granted still

1524
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 1: young whatever. Kobe works out four o'clock in the morning

1525
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:59,560
Speaker 1: every morning, you know, and he still looks like he

1526
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:03,799
Speaker 1: could play. And I'll tell you this, I probably shouldn't

1527
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:06,440
Speaker 1: give this way because Kobe's claims he'll come on my podcast.

1528
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if he'll say it, but he told me.

1529
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 1: He's like, look, I'm just gonna tell you I can

1530
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:17,680
Speaker 1: beat Michael it psychological warfare. And I go, I was like, uh,

1531
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: how are you gonna beat Michael Jordan's psychological off. He's like,

1532
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't his dad's favorite son. And I

1533
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:27,640
Speaker 1: was like what. He goes, No, He's like, you know,

1534
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,280
Speaker 1: his his brother Jeff was like six ft tall his

1535
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 1: dad because he didn't get the gifts that Michael got.

1536
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 1: Like he always was over the top. He's like, I

1537
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 1: use that. I was like, you'd use that. He's like,

1538
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: I'd use anything, full skill, psychological warfare. Like he's a fascinating,

1539
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:47,840
Speaker 1: fascinating dude. Fascinating And I know that you've experienced the good,

1540
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 1: the bad, all of the craziness, but you do know

1541
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 1: that he is crazy smart and as you pointed out,

1542
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 1: like he has soaked himself into this world of he

1543
01:27:56,520 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 1: has all girls now you know, and into bringing them

1544
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: up and uh, it's a it's an amazing thing too

1545
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 1: to know and see, Hey man, you've been more than

1546
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 1: gracious with your time. I do appreciate it. Of course,

1547
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: you can check out his podcast wherever podcasts are available,

1548
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:14,640
Speaker 1: or the Scout with Scaling Friends that was called the

1549
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 1: New One scal Pals, Scalon Pals. I love Scale. Great dude, Duke,

1550
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: I want to come on yours at some point, and

1551
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:23,560
Speaker 1: I do I need to. We need to do this

1552
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: again and talk music. I have a music question to

1553
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 1: ask you on a radio show in the meantime. Thanks

1554
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: for joining us. You got all right. That's it for

1555
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 1: all ball. My sincere appreciation to Andy Katz for joining us.

1556
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: Make sure and check out his nc A podcast. He

1557
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 1: covers all things college basketball, doesn't tennis as well. Follow

1558
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 1: him on Twitter and next week we'll take some questions.

1559
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:51,000
Speaker 1: We'll get you ready for college and NBA hoop. I

1560
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:54,600
Speaker 1: always give you the best guests, the best basketball discussion

1561
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 1: that there is on podcast. Remember the listening to The

1562
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: Doug Gotlip Show daily three to six Eastern. I'm twelve

1563
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: to three Pacific on Fox Sports Traded, the I Heart

1564
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 1: Radio app or whatever series sex sim channel you listen

1565
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 1: to to get Dan Patrick to seventeen or two oh three.

1566
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 1: That's where we are, and tell a friend about this

1567
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 1: podcast downloads, subscribe and right, I'm Doug gottlie Van. You

1568
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 1: are listening to oba