Speaker 1: Every time a new technology comes into place, it ends
Speaker 1: up creating more jobs, not less, even though it always
Speaker 1: seems like it's about to put everybody out of work.
Speaker 1: And then it just opens up all these new avenues
Speaker 1: and the people with the talents flood ind.
Speaker 2: O case, more job go yes, but are the people
Speaker 2: able to go into those jobs? No.
Speaker 1: So this is where I want people to remember. Two
Speaker 1: percent of people can make that kind of change. Ninety
Speaker 1: eight percent.
Speaker 2: One Trump's tariffs, markets crashing, AI's takeover, and the rise
Speaker 2: of bitcoin. Now there's one hidden force behind all three
Speaker 2: that could reshape the economy, and most investors aren't ready
Speaker 2: for it. And if you get this one thing wrong,
Speaker 2: you could be holding the wrong assets, working in the
Speaker 2: wrong job, and.
Speaker 3: Watching your wealth disappear.
Speaker 2: But if you get it right, you have the chance
Speaker 2: to be miles ahead of everyone. Today, I am sitting
Speaker 2: down with Tom Baylou. Tom's built a billion dollar brand,
Speaker 2: interviewed over six hundred top performers. He's a leading voice
Speaker 2: in the world through impact theory, his top point zero
Speaker 2: one percent podcast, billion view media company, and Tom teaches
Speaker 2: people how to master mindset, strategy, and adaptability, which are
Speaker 2: essential skills in the world that we're going into. So
Speaker 2: in this video, we're going to discuss Trump's tariffs, we're
Speaker 2: gonna talk about the markets crashing, we're gonna talk about
Speaker 2: AI's takeover and what that means over the next couple
Speaker 2: of years, and the rise of bitcoin. Of course, what
Speaker 2: he thinks you're gonna need to know to survive and
Speaker 2: thrive over the next three to five years.
Speaker 3: So let's just jump right in with Tom.
Speaker 2: So, what would you say some mind shift that you
Speaker 2: could give to people that might be useful for them today.
Speaker 2: The ultimate framework is really simple.
Speaker 3: You at all times need to know.
Speaker 1: This is the big one that people don't understand about themselves,
Speaker 1: which is that they trust their.
Speaker 3: And they shouldn't.
Speaker 1: If people just run that all day, every day, they
Speaker 1: can have all the success that their emotional stability, their drive,
Speaker 1: and their level of intellect will allow. The big thing
Speaker 1: I would think people should look at right now if
Speaker 1: you really want to understand part of the game they're playing,
Speaker 1: whether this is going to work because of how much
Speaker 1: of the debt has to be refinanced. You've got to
Speaker 1: get the we are in a cold war with very
Speaker 1: high potential for being a kinetic war with China, they
Speaker 1: can't control.
Speaker 2: Your manufacturing, so that has to change. What do you
Speaker 2: see AI agents doing to disrupt sort of the world
Speaker 2: and at what speed less than twenty four months away
Speaker 2: that you're seeing like this kind of blinding speed.
Speaker 1: You need to be at the edge of it figuring
Speaker 1: out how do I make this work. There's going to
Speaker 1: be many billion dollar companies made by one, two or
Speaker 1: three people. They get together, they deploy full AI orgs
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, All of those employees that you
Speaker 1: would have historically had they just go away?
Speaker 2: All right, Tom, And one of your latest videos, you've
Speaker 2: been talking a lot about tariffs and Trump and you
Speaker 2: called the tariff planet global financial earthquake. Obviously, we've seen
Speaker 2: markets crashing, seems like it's heating up with the US
Speaker 2: and China.
Speaker 3: A lot of people are on edge about this. Now.
Speaker 2: You've been interviewing a lot of people I know, macro
Speaker 2: thinkers that I know like ral Paul ray Alio.
Speaker 3: Talking about the economic chaos that's happening.
Speaker 2: So what do you think investors should be paying attention
Speaker 2: to or doing right.
Speaker 1: Now that there's absolutely no way they know what's happening?
Speaker 1: And boy do I warn people against being day traders,
Speaker 1: so I would have people asking one question, what do
Speaker 1: you do in times of uncertainty? At this point, it's
Speaker 1: probably too late, to be honest, for them to make
Speaker 1: any sort of flight to safety, but I certainly could
Speaker 1: have seen somebody going, Huh, this is going to bring
Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty. Markets hate uncertainty, so I'm going
Speaker 1: to move into T bills or something along those lines
Speaker 1: to avoid it. But honestly, from where I'm sitting, I'm
Speaker 1: always taking the perspective that the odds of me beating
Speaker 1: the market are effectively zero, and so I'm going to
Speaker 1: play the old adage of time in the market versus
Speaker 1: time being the market. Nothing about my thesis about where
Speaker 1: certainly American companies go has changed, So I've already got
Speaker 1: and I've watched your videos on Ray Dalio, and I
Speaker 1: know his historical records. But the reason that I still
Speaker 1: buy into that strategy is because I'm partly my age,
Speaker 1: so I still have a long time in the market,
Speaker 1: so I'm not super worried about, you know, a ten
Speaker 1: year period where it gets a little flat. I am
Speaker 1: way in a protective stance, so all of my high
Speaker 1: risk risk on stuff is all going to be in
Speaker 1: the companies I'm building. So I would advise people in
Speaker 1: a time of massive economic uncertainty unless you really feel
Speaker 1: like you have some insider information insider trading, but like
Speaker 1: you really understand that market just obscenely, well, yeah, I
Speaker 1: would be going somewhere that is going to ride the turbulence. Well,
Speaker 1: so for me, it's my thesis on bitcoin has remained
Speaker 1: the same, So I didn't touch anything there. My thesis
Speaker 1: on the market over the long run that I'm invested
Speaker 1: for is the same. So I've just left everything there,
Speaker 1: and I'm already so defensive and have so much in
Speaker 1: government debt that I left that there. But for me,
Speaker 1: most of that stuff is really short term because I'm
Speaker 1: building my own company. So my big concern is always
Speaker 1: having your capital tied up somewhere. So right now, I
Speaker 1: would tell people to make sure that you can move
Speaker 1: at a moment's notice, that you've got enough capital that
Speaker 1: you can deploy that if something really gnarly happens, like
Speaker 1: if we go into a proper global recession, you want
Speaker 1: to have enough access to capital that you don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about your lifestyle for years and years and
Speaker 1: years and you want to be able to if you
Speaker 1: see like a real opportunity, like, for instance, if AI
Speaker 1: and robotics just absolutely got hammered, I'd want to be
Speaker 1: able to get into those in a super broad way,
Speaker 1: very diversified across the sector, because I have no idea
Speaker 1: who's going to win. But my thesis about the future
Speaker 1: is so aggressively clear.
Speaker 3: I could be wrong, obviously.
Speaker 1: But it's so clear to me what the next call
Speaker 1: it five to seven years is going to look like
Speaker 1: that if I saw that segment depressed, then I'd be
Speaker 1: pretty eager to get in at a discount.
Speaker 2: I love AI and bitcoin, and we are going to
Speaker 2: dive into those two topics for sure, because we're gonna
Speaker 2: have a big conversation around that and what the next
Speaker 2: five to seven years looks like for sure. But what
Speaker 2: I heard you saying was number one for your current position,
Speaker 2: So you have a famously sold quest nutrition for whatever
Speaker 2: billion dollar deal that was, and so you're in more
Speaker 2: of a defensive state for sure. However, I would add
Speaker 2: on too that that regardless of what state you're in,
Speaker 2: even if you're still trying to make your money, I
Speaker 2: would listen to what you said, which is you're focused
Speaker 2: on your businesses because that's where you make your money,
Speaker 2: and then you're trying to defend and keep the capital
Speaker 2: that you have. And so I think people that are
Speaker 2: thinking about the short term, trying to trade that to
Speaker 2: make more money, you're probably gonna end up on the
Speaker 2: wrong side of the timing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, look, you know this better than
Speaker 1: I do, but I would be so curious. I've heard
Speaker 1: a data point that rings so true to me, which
Speaker 1: is that something and this is for sure true in
Speaker 1: the crypto world, five percent of the walllet's make ninety
Speaker 1: five percent of the games. So it's like there are
Speaker 1: people that they're in those WhatsApp and signal groups. They're
Speaker 1: betting on culture. They know how much they can influence
Speaker 1: said culture, and they win and basically everybody else loses.
Speaker 1: I'm just not that that game, to me is so crazy.
Speaker 1: So I get I'm a very particular flavor of person
Speaker 1: who talks about the market, but all the betting, all
Speaker 1: the gambling, that stuff, to me is like a major turnoff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And unfortunately that's what the crypto space has turned into.
Speaker 2: I mean, meme stocks are jokes, right, and so it's
Speaker 2: turned into a cryptocus you know at this point literally yes,
Speaker 2: literally jokes aggressively agree with that. Yeah, sad story. Somebody
Speaker 2: who was in one of my training programs. I'd consider
Speaker 2: him a friend.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: He had sort of lost a lot in the crypto space,
Speaker 2: decided he was going to go all in bitcoin only
Speaker 2: from here on out, built up a pretty big personal brand,
Speaker 2: made a lot of money, did pretty good, had about
Speaker 2: six million dollars in bitcoin. He's young, in his late twenties.
Speaker 2: The crypto thing kind of called again. He started pumping.
Speaker 2: He started a crypto trading group. Uh huh. He made
Speaker 2: a lot of money, twelve thousand dollars memberships for he
Speaker 2: sold like two nre people made a couple of million
Speaker 2: bucks selling memberships, but they all lost a lot of money.
Speaker 3: So then he started a meme trading group. Oh god.
Speaker 3: And it was about three weeks ago.
Speaker 2: He messaged me, sent me a text message and he said, Hey, Mark,
Speaker 2: can we talk? I messed up really bad and I
Speaker 2: need to talk because I have this famous story of
Speaker 2: kind of losing everything in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3: And uh.
Speaker 2: I got on the phone with him and he's like, man,
Speaker 2: I chased the memes all the way to the bottom
Speaker 2: and I lost all my money six millions US and
Speaker 2: not only that, but everybody that was paying him to
Speaker 2: be in that meat trading group as well.
Speaker 3: So anyway, I.
Speaker 2: Want to dive deeper into tariff. So I do want
Speaker 2: to get into bitcoin AI. We're gonna have a lot
Speaker 2: of fun with that. But if we talk about tariffs,
Speaker 2: like I said, you've been all over it. It's the talk
Speaker 2: of the talk of the town, if you will, all
Speaker 2: over the news. But you talked about like Trump's tariff strategy.
Speaker 2: Now a lot of people actually let me start with this.
Speaker 2: You said that, I think on your intro you said
Speaker 2: that nobody has any idea what's going on or what's
Speaker 2: going to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think anybody can accurately predict how this
Speaker 1: is going to play out.
Speaker 3: People f thess and that's good.
Speaker 2: So certainly, in a complex system, the lava unintended consequences
Speaker 2: is going to kick in. And so you start trying
Speaker 2: to play with a couple pieces of a complex system,
Speaker 2: and we have multiple systems together, certainly the unintended consequences
Speaker 2: will win. But the narrative seems to be with mainstream
Speaker 2: media that Trump and his team are a bunch of
Speaker 2: buffoons and have no idea what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean listen, at the end of this
Speaker 1: half the world's going to look like morons and the
Speaker 1: other half is going through have been right to some degree,
Speaker 1: but I don't think anybody right now should have the
Speaker 1: degree of confidence that I see people putting forward. Trump
Speaker 1: really is the right way to think of him is
Speaker 1: he is the CEO of America and he's he's going
Speaker 1: for Mount Rushmore, whether it's going to work or not.
Speaker 1: I legitimately have no idea. I can articulate a very kind,
Speaker 1: generous read on what he's doing, and I pay a
Speaker 1: lot more attention to Scott Bessen and Lutnik than I
Speaker 1: do to Trump. Trump is a chaos agent. Maybe the
Speaker 1: chaos is exactly what the system needs right now. But
Speaker 1: if you really want to understand again whether they're right
Speaker 1: or not, they have a very easy to follow string
Speaker 1: of logic, and it just becomes a question to what
Speaker 1: you were saying, cool your first sort of consequences, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a chance that those will play out just like
Speaker 1: you're saying. The bad news is this is an insanely
Speaker 1: complicated system where egos of other nations are getting involved.
Speaker 1: This is like a huge gamble you're playing in with
Speaker 1: the setup of Thucidides trap, so it's UV China. You're
Speaker 1: fighting for the whole world at a time where Breton
Speaker 1: Woods is dead, so you've got to come up with
Speaker 1: a whole new monetary system. And Trump is like pulled
Speaker 1: the pin out of the grenade and tossed it and
Speaker 1: has gone, Okay, this is going to break the mold,
Speaker 1: and I've got to get everybody out of that mold
Speaker 1: so that I can move them into something new. And
Speaker 1: I'm perfectly willing to believe that they have a vision
Speaker 1: for what that's something new is they've articulated it. There's
Speaker 1: probably the part they're saying, and then there's my mind
Speaker 1: read about the part they're not saying, which we'll see
Speaker 1: if I end up being right about it. And for
Speaker 1: people that don't know me, I am not emotionally invested
Speaker 1: in being right. I am only interested the only way
Speaker 1: to make sense of all the words coming out of
Speaker 1: my mouth are I am trying to accurately map the
Speaker 1: way the world works and so where it's going. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: so if you know how the world works, then you
Speaker 1: have a sense where it's going. If you do not
Speaker 1: understand how the world actually works, you're never going to
Speaker 1: be able to figure out where this is going. I
Speaker 1: try to follow everything from a cause and effects standpoint,
Speaker 1: so I will routinely have people interface with me as
Speaker 1: if I'm saying Trump is right, he has to do this,
Speaker 1: this is wonderful, it's going to work. I'm not at
Speaker 1: all saying that. I'm saying this is the logic of
Speaker 1: what they're laying out. This might be a hidden layer,
Speaker 1: and if these things are accurate, it should play out
Speaker 1: like this. And now, like everybody, I'm just gonna watch
Speaker 1: and see if my mental map is accurate. I've already
Speaker 1: explained what I'm actually doing with my money, so people
Speaker 1: don't need to guess about what bags I'm pumping or
Speaker 1: anything like that. I'm just I'm trying to mentally map
Speaker 1: the world and see if I end up being accurate
Speaker 1: not so I can feel good about being right, so
Speaker 1: I can say, cool, this map of the world of
Speaker 1: this moment had a high degree of predictive validity.
Speaker 3: That's it. That's all I'm going for.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that this system is so complicated.
Speaker 1: They're running what I call the shoot me in the
Speaker 1: ear bro strategy, where it's like laying that Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So when Trump first got shot in the ear, somebody
Speaker 1: who I know and respect said he probably just faked
Speaker 1: it and he was just doing it for attention, and
Speaker 1: I was like, hold on, you actually think that. He
Speaker 1: said to somebody, go ahead, shoot this off my head.
Speaker 3: Sure, graize my ear.
Speaker 1: That's so dangerous, there's no way. Yeah, this feels like that.
Speaker 1: It's so high risk what he's doing. If he pulls
Speaker 1: it off and this ends well, and we completely reorganize
Speaker 1: the world order in America's favor, and we now get
Speaker 1: to take advantage of being the world's either first or
Speaker 1: second largest economy, depending on who you speak to, and
Speaker 1: we get all that benefit resounding to the US. We
Speaker 1: get out of all of the problems that we have
Speaker 1: with China controlling all of our manufacturing.
Speaker 3: That is crazy.
Speaker 1: We are in a cold war with very high potential
Speaker 1: for being a kinetic war with China. They can't control
Speaker 1: your manufacturing, so that has to change. But the way
Speaker 1: that he's going about it with the just hyper aggressive,
Speaker 1: ultra fast.
Speaker 3: Is shoot me in the ear.
Speaker 1: And so if nick him and he just bleeds a
Speaker 1: little and is like the world's trying to kill me,
Speaker 1: and now everybody rallies around him. Amazing, but an inch
Speaker 1: in either Russian and he's dead.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this is when I really go prognostication mode. I'm like,
Speaker 1: it starts working, but not in time for the midterms.
Speaker 1: He loses the midterms, it flips, they no longer control
Speaker 1: the House, he becomes lame duck, and Republicans.
Speaker 3: Are out in four years.
Speaker 1: That's like if I were gonna, say fifty one forty nine,
Speaker 1: Because again, I really do feel like I'm guessing it's
Speaker 1: just such a complicated system that would.
Speaker 3: Be I would give the edge to that.
Speaker 2: It just won't work in time, even if ultimately it
Speaker 2: would have one thing that I've seen. So the last
Speaker 2: time we had this big of a drawdown in the
Speaker 2: markets was in twenty twenty two October twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: when Biden was president, and nobody was saying it was
Speaker 2: all Biden's fault. Granted he didn't go throw a grenade
Speaker 2: to your point or the illustration that he gave. But
Speaker 2: today this morning in the gym, I saw in the news, right,
Speaker 2: it's just like Trump Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, and it's
Speaker 2: all his fault.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of it is heated.
Speaker 2: Did move by executive order, so a lot of it
Speaker 2: is sort of on him. But if they're going to
Speaker 2: assign this whole crash to him, if he pulls it off,
Speaker 2: they're gonna forgive him all the credit for it, and
Speaker 2: they won't.
Speaker 3: So brace that and they won't.
Speaker 2: But I want to go back you said that the
Speaker 2: risk is so high. I want to put a pin
Speaker 2: in that and come back to that. But just going
Speaker 2: back to we do have no idea of the future.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is not guaranteed for any of us. Certainly, it's
Speaker 2: a complex system. But I want to talk about the
Speaker 2: competency of the people. So I mean, I saw I've
Speaker 2: seen many interviews of Howard Lutnik. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you saw the one of them on the all in Pod. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, very smart, very capable, the way that he's
Speaker 2: looking at things, like he said, like you hear about
Speaker 2: the debt of the country thirty six trillion, you're about
Speaker 2: the deficit of the country. You hear about the income
Speaker 2: of the expense of the country. But as a business owner,
Speaker 2: there's a number that's glaring, that's missing out of that,
Speaker 2: what about the balance sheet and like just hearing like
Speaker 2: an approach like that in a business mind number one.
Speaker 2: But then you have Bescent and you said you listened
Speaker 2: to him quite a bit a pretty good interview on
Speaker 2: Tucker recently.
Speaker 3: And I see a lot.
Speaker 2: Of people on Twitter and YouTube, people that I respect,
Speaker 2: people that I know, and people that I align with
Speaker 2: their worldview, and they're just telling, Oh, this guy's making
Speaker 2: all these mistakes. He didn't understand this. He didn't understand that.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you're not smarter than Scott Piscent. So
Speaker 2: Scott Pisent's pedigree, right, he worked for the goat the
Speaker 2: greatest of all time, Druck and Miller, the second greatest
Speaker 2: of all time Soros.
Speaker 3: But specifically what he did.
Speaker 2: Working for those guys, right, specifically, what they did was
Speaker 2: take down countries and manipulate currencies.
Speaker 3: That's what they did, dude.
Speaker 1: Take down the Bank of England. The Bank of England,
Speaker 1: not not a rando like small country that's hyperinflating their currency.
Speaker 2: The Bank of England. It's pretty crazy, the Bank of England.
Speaker 2: So basically he was hired to do the opposite of that.
Speaker 2: So understanding what makes the bank of England vulnerable? What
Speaker 2: makes other they've taken down many other country since the
Speaker 2: Bank of England, what makes those countries vulnerable being over
Speaker 2: leveraged to being off sides? And now he's been hired,
Speaker 2: as he said on Tucker, like to sell dollars around
Speaker 2: the world. Right, So he understand that part. So what
Speaker 2: could we do to do the opposite of that? But
Speaker 2: more specifically, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, you took down bank in England.
Speaker 2: But China is a pretty big thing game, if we
Speaker 2: would call it that, right, So understanding what makes the
Speaker 2: US dangerous and how can we derist the US? But
Speaker 2: then specifically, what are China's leverage points? And and you know,
Speaker 2: he said on Tucker a couple of times that he
Speaker 2: sees China inter recession depression. Maybe we can box them in.
Speaker 2: We have no idea, But to say that he doesn't
Speaker 2: know what he's doing would be I think a mistake.
Speaker 3: Aggressively aggressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that if you were
Speaker 1: going to have anybody run the playbook that they're running,
Speaker 1: you've got some of the greatest capital allocators on planet
Speaker 1: Earth who have made unimaginable amounts of money. By saying
Speaker 1: I understand how global economics works, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: bet hugely that I'm accurate. And they've won and so
Speaker 1: over and over and over. So many of these guys
Speaker 1: that I look at that are just like the world's
Speaker 1: greatest capital allocators, I'm like, huh, They're all like this
Speaker 1: could work.
Speaker 3: Listen, take Ray Dalio.
Speaker 1: I think you and I may see him a little
Speaker 1: bit differently, but nonetheless, Ray has made just unimaginable amounts
Speaker 1: of money doing this game. Has this crazy historical perspective,
Speaker 1: and he's very much in my camp, which is, you
Speaker 1: have to do something because of what's going on with China,
Speaker 1: you have to do something because of the debt, Like
Speaker 1: these things cannot stand. So given that, given that, in
Speaker 1: action is not an option, right, and that's what I
Speaker 1: want to ask, then it's like, what do you do now? Again,
Speaker 1: if you listen to Trump, it's like, that's way too crazy.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. And maybe there is
Speaker 1: some of that. Maybe he's doing way too much Art
Speaker 1: of the Deal all that stuff, and he's pissing off
Speaker 1: all of our allies and they're going to be very
Speaker 1: necessary for us to weather this storm. Well, but when
Speaker 1: you listen to Lutnik and Bessen. It's like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: at least understand what you guys are trying to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so some of the early signs are there that again,
Speaker 1: if you can graze the ear and not.
Speaker 2: Shoot the patient in the head, it could work.
Speaker 3: But we'll see.
Speaker 1: And to be very specific, the big thing I would
Speaker 1: think people should look at right now if you really
Speaker 1: want to understand part of the game they're playing, whether
Speaker 1: this is going to work because of how much of
Speaker 1: the debt has to be refinanced. You've got to get
Speaker 1: the yield on the tenure treasury down, and they're doing
Speaker 1: it now. The question is to like the method by
Speaker 1: which they're doing it. That's a different question. But they're
Speaker 1: already driving it down.
Speaker 2: They could keep loading the front end like Janet Yellen did.
Speaker 2: And just for comparison, Janet Yellen was a academic, a
Speaker 2: Ckensian academic, an mmtre again back to descent, an academic
Speaker 2: like this MMT freaks me right, So she's an MMT academic.
Speaker 2: Percent literally ran the playbook for the two greatest investors
Speaker 2: of all time. And you said we're successful. Stanley DRUGA
Speaker 2: Miller is the goat because thirty years without a loss,
Speaker 2: it's crazy. Without a loss, crazy, it's crazy. But back
Speaker 2: to the risk, So the risk is really high to
Speaker 2: your point, you get my ear who take my head out?
Speaker 2: But to your point, in action really is an option
Speaker 2: either And percent sort of made that statement. So he said, like,
Speaker 2: the top ten percent owns eighty eight percent of equities,
Speaker 2: eighty eight percent, forty percent owns twelve percent of the market,
Speaker 2: and the bottom fifty are in debt, so it's not
Speaker 2: working for them, and so like, we have this massive
Speaker 2: risk if you don't do something to debt all these things.
Speaker 2: So I think that's interesting. I think at the time
Speaker 2: of this recording, which is the seventh, the latest I
Speaker 2: saw already eighty countries have already come together saying they
Speaker 2: want to strike a deal. That's what the latest I
Speaker 2: saw today, even the you now, so they're ready to
Speaker 2: strike a deal and go go down to zero. So
Speaker 2: it seems like it's coming together pretty quickly. Probably not
Speaker 2: for China.
Speaker 1: Yeah, China's making very different noises with their face, so
Speaker 1: we'll see.
Speaker 3: How it plays out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean there, look, how much of this
Speaker 1: is hear say, how much of it's real? I have
Speaker 1: not seen coming from China this directly, but I've heard
Speaker 1: about it indirectly that they're prepared to.
Speaker 3: Go all the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where it's like, okay, you guys don't want to
Speaker 1: play ball. Not only are we going to do retaliatory
Speaker 1: strikes with tariffs, but we're now going to openly sell
Speaker 1: your IP again. I don't know that's true. I want
Speaker 1: to be very clear. I am unfortunately right now spreading rumors.
Speaker 1: But that is certainly a weapon that they have in
Speaker 1: their toolkit that a lot of other countries don't. The
Speaker 1: thing that they've gotten extremely good at. And this is
Speaker 1: not derogatory. They've gotten very good at going cool. That's
Speaker 1: how it's done. Now we're going to show you how
Speaker 1: to do it at scale, hyper efficiently. And so they've
Speaker 1: gotten just ridiculously good at that. And so they do
Speaker 1: have and this this goes back to this whole idea
Speaker 1: of choke points. They have a choke point for us
Speaker 1: on manufacturing. They have because of that, they have a
Speaker 1: choke point on us from an IP perspective, and.
Speaker 3: You can't let those play out negatively.
Speaker 1: And this is exactly how things escalate. This is how
Speaker 1: you go from a cold war to something that threatens
Speaker 1: to be kinetic really fast, because if.
Speaker 2: They do that with our IP we have to get aggressive.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I mean there's there's Taiwan on the table, you know,
Speaker 2: potentially taking Taiwan. There's dumping US treasuries, which is another
Speaker 2: option would force the QUI. So there's a lot of
Speaker 2: things that China could do. But I did see today
Speaker 2: also that Trump said that I think by the tenth
Speaker 2: that he's going to increase their tariff's another fifty percent, yep, Like,
Speaker 2: so yeah.
Speaker 1: It could escalate, but that's retaliation for the retaliation, right,
Speaker 1: So we'll see how that all plays out. But China
Speaker 1: is not being conciliatory at all, and so this is
Speaker 1: the part that worries me. So you have the two
Speaker 1: players on the board that matter. You have the US
Speaker 1: and China that are being escalatory with each other, and
Speaker 1: now they're going to be fighting for allies. And so
Speaker 1: you hear Elon making noises about, hey, we should basically
Speaker 1: have free trade with Europe. We should be able to
Speaker 1: go back and forth. I mean as if America and
Speaker 1: the EU were all part of the European Union and
Speaker 1: let anybody go where anybody wants. So I get where
Speaker 1: he's coming from, and he sees America and Europe is
Speaker 1: like a super ally, because then we really if we
Speaker 1: were truly locks up with Europe, which we are aggressively not,
Speaker 1: but if we were truly in lockstep with Europe, now
Speaker 1: we've got enough economic might that we could really stand
Speaker 1: up to China economically.
Speaker 2: But we'll see, yeah, lines will be drawn.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: I think that's looking only at one component of the board.
Speaker 2: If you look at other components of the board. So
Speaker 2: it's not just the tariffs, right, it's making it making
Speaker 2: America easier to invest in, so strengthening the dollar and
Speaker 2: the treasury asset number one. If China, if Besson thinks
Speaker 2: that China's boxed in, potentially in the yuan is going
Speaker 2: to have to be debased in order to keep up
Speaker 2: with this, China is less investible and a lot of
Speaker 2: that comes back to the US. But also when you're
Speaker 2: adding the massive tax cuts, the spending cuts, and then
Speaker 2: the massive deregulation cuts, I think, and and then sort
Speaker 2: of the drill baby drill energy dominance narrative, those are
Speaker 2: other pieces of the board that I think weigh in.
Speaker 2: But but we'll see, we're just speculating, you know, speculating
Speaker 2: at this point, that's all we can do. That's that's
Speaker 2: the fun, right, playing playing that.
Speaker 3: But I think.
Speaker 2: History books are going to be talked about this period
Speaker 2: of time, that is for sure.
Speaker 3: So we get the benefit of living through that.
Speaker 1: Is it the benefit I'd really like to learn from it,
Speaker 1: that is for sure. So moving forward I will be
Speaker 1: armed with a lot more information. But yeah, there is
Speaker 1: a supposed Chinese curse. May you live in interesting times,
Speaker 1: and we live in interesting times, and humans don't like
Speaker 1: change in the volatility, there's certainly opportunity, but it will
Speaker 1: also the average person if it goes south. The average
Speaker 1: person just gets cloppered.
Speaker 2: Well, not the fifty percent of people who own nothing.
Speaker 1: Now, it'll be worse for them for sure, because they
Speaker 1: have no protective mechanism. So the problem is when you
Speaker 1: were saying that we'd have to turn to QE, the
Speaker 1: good news is that would make the debt manageable. So you,
Speaker 1: in my words, you steal from all Americans, which just
Speaker 1: absolutely decimates the poor and working class. But you steal
Speaker 1: from everybody by inflating the money supply, and now that
Speaker 1: makes the debt worth far less and it becomes far
Speaker 1: easier to pay off if you can get some economic growth.
Speaker 1: So if you can both weaken the dollar keep it
Speaker 1: the reserve currency, and through deregulation unlock GDP growth, you
Speaker 1: actually can pull this off. But if you're doing it
Speaker 1: through QE, then you're going to exis disacerbate the difference
Speaker 1: between the rich and the poor, and that will get
Speaker 1: ugly and it really does become a let them meat
Speaker 1: flat screens moment, where sure people have a lot of
Speaker 1: cheap stuff, but that's how revolutions start. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: is the one that I think is most immoral. But
Speaker 1: there's a couple thoughts on that, like one Bescent talked
Speaker 1: about on Tucker How last year twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Summer of twenty twenty four, we had two records set.
Speaker 2: Number one record was more Americans busy in Europe in
Speaker 2: the summer than on record, But we also had more
Speaker 2: Americans going to food banks on record at the same time.
Speaker 2: And so that's sort of that divide if you will,
Speaker 2: And unfortunately to your point, as the debasement continues, then
Speaker 2: your wages buy less and less than more people go
Speaker 2: to the food bank.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I imagine your audience completely understands that. The
Speaker 1: problem is that the average American doesn't. Yeah, so they
Speaker 1: just do not understand how money actually works. They don't
Speaker 1: understand the dangers of debt, they don't understand how it
Speaker 1: could possibly be bad that the government is giving them money,
Speaker 1: and so we end up in this death spiral where
Speaker 1: they can tell something's wrong, they can tell they're getting screwed,
Speaker 1: but they don't understand how. So this has been the
Speaker 1: conundrum of the last three years of my life is
Speaker 1: as I've learned about how money actually works. Because when
Speaker 1: COVID hit, I thought, Okay, I've worked in the inner cities.
Speaker 3: I had a thousand employees.
Speaker 1: That grew up like hard hard heart, and when COVID
Speaker 1: lockdowns happened, I thought, they're all going to lose their
Speaker 1: jobs and they're just going to be toast. So I
Speaker 1: started making financial content to help them out and to
Speaker 1: hope that I could give them some understanding of how
Speaker 1: they're going to weather this storm. And as I started,
Speaker 1: because I've always been good at making money, but not
Speaker 1: investing money, and so I wanted to learn about investing
Speaker 1: so I could help them out. And as I started
Speaker 1: learning about it, I was like, wait, a second, like
Speaker 1: this does not work the way that I thought it did,
Speaker 1: and realized, oh my god, that printing money. If I
Speaker 1: was going to oversimplify my own stance, would be printing
Speaker 1: money is immoral and is exactly how the rich get
Speaker 1: rich from the poor get poor. I understand it's more
Speaker 1: complicated than that, but when you simplify something down to
Speaker 1: its essence, there's a clarity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to we're gonna talk about that, We're
Speaker 2: gonna talk about AI, We're gonna talk about bitcoin, which
Speaker 2: I consider the cheat code today. But I want to
Speaker 2: go back to kind of what you just talked about there,
Speaker 2: and for a minute, I want to kind of go back.
Speaker 2: You talked about scrounging and your couch cushions, so having
Speaker 2: a billion dollar company and so what I see so
Speaker 2: kind of going back to this sort of trade war
Speaker 2: bringing back jobs, the tale of two Americans, if you will.
Speaker 2: It's not just that the US offshort it's manufacturing base,
Speaker 2: which it did, but those were low level jobs, and
Speaker 2: so bringing back T shirts and sneakers to the US
Speaker 2: for manufacturing is not an answer for that, right, So
Speaker 2: nations have to grow their way out of it, and
Speaker 2: we grew ight.
Speaker 3: Away out of it.
Speaker 2: Like technology takes low level tests, so we can work
Speaker 2: on higher value tasks.
Speaker 3: But it's more about moving from.
Speaker 2: The industrial age to the information age. So, right, we
Speaker 2: had those giant manufacturing facilities and everybody smart and dumb
Speaker 2: worked equally on the assembly lines with this massive middle class.
Speaker 2: But in the information age, now a person with a
Speaker 2: laptop and AI.
Speaker 3: Can create a billion dollar business.
Speaker 2: I mean, we'll see that, right, And so then it's
Speaker 2: like almost more like a meritocracy. So we have all
Speaker 2: these people who were trained from an industrial school system
Speaker 2: with an industrial mindset, but now they find themselves in
Speaker 2: this information age, but they're not equipped with the mindset
Speaker 2: or the tools in order to succeed in that world.
Speaker 2: So they still think in terms of like just get
Speaker 2: a job and that job will take care of me,
Speaker 2: as opposed to I should learn, I should change my
Speaker 2: mindset to learn skill sets and use those skill sets
Speaker 2: to bring more value, to increase the money amount of
Speaker 2: money I make, because we have make money and then
Speaker 2: we have invest money. So I'm curious, I mean, your
Speaker 2: own mindset shift. Right, going from the couch cushions to
Speaker 2: your point to a billion dollar company, you had to
Speaker 2: learn that model. And is that something that you're trying
Speaker 2: to teach in this You said your workers right, trying
Speaker 2: to kind of teach how this works. Are you trying
Speaker 2: to kind of give them that mindset? Okay, so I
Speaker 2: think you have to you have to face really two things.
Speaker 2: I want to take a break real quick and just
Speaker 2: say that there's only so much you can learn through videos. Yeah,
Speaker 2: build your knowledge, build your skills, but you need to
Speaker 2: build your relationships. Relationships plus skills equals money. So come
Speaker 2: build your relationships and your knowledge at the Bitcoin Conference
Speaker 2: May twenty seventh through twenty ninth in Las Vegas. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be there speaking for the fourth year in a row,
Speaker 2: and lots of other people way bigger than me. Entertainment, politics, media, finance,
Speaker 2: you name it, they'll be there. So come check it out.
Speaker 2: Save some money with my code Mark Moss or I'll
Speaker 2: put a link down below if you use my code
Speaker 2: to save some money. I'm going to do a private
Speaker 2: meetup just for you and some of my friends. So
Speaker 2: let me know, use that code, save some money, send
Speaker 2: me a message and.
Speaker 3: We'll get you in the private meetup.
Speaker 1: And I hope to see you in Las Vegas generational
Speaker 1: poverty is a mindset problem. It's not a money problem.
Speaker 1: I expect that to be very inflammatory. It is every
Speaker 1: time I say it, but nonetheless, having seen it up close,
Speaker 1: you realize, wait a second, this guy is smarter than me,
Speaker 1: and he's going nowhere fast. So good hardware, bad software.
Speaker 1: The really bad news is, while it is very possible
Speaker 1: for somebody to change their mindset as an adult, I
Speaker 1: ballpark it. This is not a real number, but this
Speaker 1: is so directionally accurate that if people form their worldview
Speaker 1: with this, it will have high predictive validity. Only two
Speaker 1: percent of people are capable or willing, however you want
Speaker 1: to say it, to change their mindset once they're an adult.
Speaker 1: So I learned pretty quickly that I'm a filtering mechanism.
Speaker 1: I've given up on changing adults that are in the
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent. Maybe there will come somebody who's better
Speaker 1: than me and they can do it, but I've really
Speaker 1: really tried so long before there was a camera on me,
Speaker 1: long before I thought about YouTube any of that. I
Speaker 1: told my employees, I will come in early, I will
Speaker 1: stay late. I will teach you anything that I know
Speaker 1: about entrepreneurship because I want you to be here.
Speaker 3: One.
Speaker 1: I want you to be the best person you can
Speaker 1: be that benefits me. But I want you to stay
Speaker 1: here not because you feel forced. I want you to
Speaker 1: stay here because you know I care more about your
Speaker 1: future than your own mother. So started what I called
Speaker 1: Quest University, and literally I taught them anything, to the
Speaker 1: point that we had three of the people that the
Speaker 1: sort of informal students that came through that started competitive
Speaker 1: nutrition companies. So I was like, I will tell you anything, and.
Speaker 2: Three students started competing company out of how many oh god, thousands, no,
Speaker 2: not on hundreds, but we hundreds, hundreds for sure.
Speaker 1: And in all of that, there was also two students
Speaker 1: that were in it, and one of them punched another
Speaker 1: one in the face because he said, you've changed, You've
Speaker 1: started reading, And I was just like, wow, So I'm
Speaker 1: up against like really stupid cultural programming and the people
Speaker 1: that actually did something, the two percent have some obviously
Speaker 1: not all, but some have gone on to start companies
Speaker 1: that are still running today and I'll get text from
Speaker 1: them and updates. I'm just like, this is so gratifying.
Speaker 1: And then I remember how many people that I tried
Speaker 1: to explain this stuff to and walk them through. So anyway,
Speaker 1: that becomes a genesis of the YouTube channel, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I want to impart this mindset advice and again realize
Speaker 1: I'm the bat symbol in the sky. I throw it
Speaker 1: up and the people for whom that already matches, they respond.
Speaker 1: And a big part of the reason I started changing
Speaker 1: my content because my first few years in YouTube were
Speaker 1: all mindset, That's all I talked about. And I just
Speaker 1: realized that for the vast majority of people engaging with
Speaker 1: that content, it was spiritual entertainment. And I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: already rich, so this does not make sense. This's not
Speaker 1: interesting for me.
Speaker 3: What do you mean spiritual entertainment?
Speaker 1: I have a two hour declining arc of influence on people,
Speaker 1: and I can make them feel like anything as possible,
Speaker 1: and they.
Speaker 2: Feel very good, very capable.
Speaker 1: But then they have to come back for more, come
Speaker 1: back for more, come back for more. Yeh, Because they're
Speaker 1: not actually trying to gain a set of skills that
Speaker 1: allow them to go execute in the world, in that
Speaker 1: hyper uncertain world that we were talking about a few
Speaker 1: minutes ago. That's not what they're looking for. What they're
Speaker 1: looking for is the narcotic like feeling that they could
Speaker 1: do that if they wanted to, and that feels so
Speaker 1: good that they just never do anything with right, And
Speaker 1: that's wholly uninteresting to me. So by temperament, I'm just like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if that's how this works, then I'm not interested. So
Speaker 1: I began reinventing my channel to get to what I
Speaker 1: do now, which is talk about the most important things
Speaker 1: you should be thinking about in your life, because if
Speaker 1: you get it right, the consequence is financially, emotionally, longevity
Speaker 1: of relationships, all that it's going to matter so much,
Speaker 1: and if you get it wrong, your life is worth
Speaker 1: on every measurable metric from wealth, health, emotional stability, progress,
Speaker 1: which is a foundational pillar of human happiness, I mean
Speaker 1: just literally every dimension. So that's the focus now. But okay,
Speaker 1: so all of that is around just that idea of
Speaker 1: how do you help people with a mindset thing. But
Speaker 1: the second part that you have to face is that
Speaker 1: some people do not have the intellectual horsepower, and no
Speaker 1: matter what you teach them, they are forever going to
Speaker 1: need a blue collar job. And I'll even say, maybe
Speaker 1: it's not intellectual horsepower, maybe it's just temperament. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: skill set that their skill set is so visceral that
Speaker 1: they need to make things, build things, touch things, move things.
Speaker 1: They need to live in the world of electrons and
Speaker 1: move them around. And evolution for so long could not
Speaker 1: over index on the thinkers, the intellectuals who now run
Speaker 1: the world. But they certainly did not for millennia. So
Speaker 1: I think what we're learning now is you hollow that
Speaker 1: blue collar segment of your population out at your own peril.
Speaker 1: First they start killing themselves and you can actually see
Speaker 1: deaths of despair bringing down the life expectancy of men.
Speaker 1: If you take out the depths of despair, it bounces
Speaker 1: back to normal. So it's so frequent that it is
Speaker 1: impacting the national stat on the length of male life
Speaker 1: in America. That's so insane to me. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: you have to address that. So I bang the drum
Speaker 1: for you've got to bring some manufacturing back to the US.
Speaker 1: Because there are humans, by temperament or intellectual power, they
Speaker 1: have to be in the world of physical electrons moving
Speaker 1: them around, just period, full stop, end of story. And
Speaker 1: unless we start genetically modifying people like you're going to
Speaker 1: have a base of largely men that you either keep
Speaker 1: numb or brace yourself for impact when they revolt.
Speaker 2: Yes, I would agree with that. Right, we have to
Speaker 2: have purpose, we have to have meaning, we have to
Speaker 2: have something to do. But does it have to be
Speaker 2: dumb labor or can it be smarter labor? So for example,
Speaker 2: you could talk about the fine feminine feminism movement.
Speaker 3: And how much how many jobs is taken from men?
Speaker 2: I was just recently thinking about my own company and
Speaker 2: the amount of people we employ, and no, how the
Speaker 2: majority of them are.
Speaker 3: Women, even in my own company, right, and.
Speaker 2: So like how many men are sort of put out of.
Speaker 3: The workforce based off of that?
Speaker 2: And those are physical jobs, I mean, you know, not
Speaker 2: hard labor jobs, but physical office jobs, right, white collar jobs,
Speaker 2: I guess you would say. But you know, when the
Speaker 2: industrial revolution came, you had a machine that could do
Speaker 2: the work of five thousand field workers.
Speaker 3: But those field workers.
Speaker 2: Eventually went on to do higher level things like science
Speaker 2: and medicine and things like that. In this vision of
Speaker 2: Trump re onshoring manufacturing, Latinick says, yeah, it's gonna be automated,
Speaker 2: so someone's going to have to build the facilities. So
Speaker 2: there's hard you know, Blue labor, blue collar labor there.
Speaker 2: But someone's also have to build the robotics program the machines,
Speaker 2: run the machines, and stuff like that. So to your point,
Speaker 2: I mean, we need the physical things, but could they
Speaker 2: do those physical things or you think that people just
Speaker 2: are incapable of even learning something like that.
Speaker 1: You're intelligence is the spectrum and there will always be
Speaker 1: people that are going to be ill suited to an
Speaker 1: information technology only world. Now, AI is a meteorite screaming
Speaker 1: towards Earth. So the things I'm saying right now, I'm
Speaker 1: just ignoring that meteorite for now.
Speaker 2: It is going to come back yet, I have no doubt.
Speaker 3: Is one of my favorite topics.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, you really have to bifurcate your conversation into
Speaker 1: what do we do right now today versus then how
Speaker 1: do we manage that transition period when it happens. And
Speaker 1: I've written extensively in the realm of fiction on this idea,
Speaker 1: but you have to deal with people that certainly do
Speaker 1: not have the intellectual horsepower to do things other than
Speaker 1: move electrons.
Speaker 3: You got to do something.
Speaker 1: So what that answer is, Manufacturing certainly is one Obviously
Speaker 1: a lot of that's going to go to robotics. Now,
Speaker 1: if you look backwards, and this is always a good
Speaker 1: test when you look backwards, every time a new technology
Speaker 1: comes in the place, it ends up creating more jobs,
Speaker 1: not less, even though it always seems like it's about
Speaker 1: to put everybody out of work, and then it just
Speaker 1: opens up all these new avenues and the people with
Speaker 1: the talents fled in. So as an act of faith,
Speaker 1: I choose to believe that that will happen here as well,
Speaker 1: that there is something I just can't conceive of yet that.
Speaker 2: Will if people can level their skills, that's the problem.
Speaker 3: Well that's a conundrum for you, O.
Speaker 2: Case more go Yes, but are the people able to
Speaker 2: go into those jobs?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: So this is where I want people to remember. Two
Speaker 1: percent of people can make that kind of change. Ninety
Speaker 1: eight percent won't. Evolution of culture or otherwise never cares
Speaker 1: about any given generation. So evolution does not care if
Speaker 1: we're about to introduce a utopia. But some people just
Speaker 1: can't cross that threshold because they completely emotionally derail because
Speaker 1: they can see I am getting left behind.
Speaker 2: I am a trucker. I'm not going to learn to code.
Speaker 2: I don't want to work in a robotics factory like
Speaker 2: that person. But those were things they refuse to do.
Speaker 2: I don't want to learn how to code. I refuse
Speaker 2: to work robotics.
Speaker 1: But that's the fact that that's what you're up against.
Speaker 1: Anything else is an abstraction. So humans are such that
Speaker 1: if they've spent, if they're a forty five year old,
Speaker 1: they are going to many, many, many of them. It
Speaker 1: will never be one hundred percent, thank god, but many, many,
Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority will not be willing to make that transition.
Speaker 1: It will be too hard in them, and so they
Speaker 1: will check out.
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Speaker 2: of despair you're talking about.
Speaker 3: That'll be one avenue.
Speaker 1: Depending on what age they are, it may also manifest
Speaker 1: as active rebellion.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, I didn't want to eat
Speaker 2: my vegetables, and my dad would tell my mom, if
Speaker 2: he's hungry enough, he'll eat. And I think about, like,
Speaker 2: you know the sign in the state parks don't feed
Speaker 2: the animals because the animals become dependent. But humans aren't animals, right,
Speaker 2: So like, if we're hungry enough, we're going to go
Speaker 2: dig a hole, we're gonna go we'll go work, I
Speaker 2: would think. So I'm afraid of you know, people are
Speaker 2: calling for like the need for UBI to offset that
Speaker 2: that sort of you know problem that you're talking about,
Speaker 2: But it seems like if we didn't have that safety
Speaker 2: that people would go work.
Speaker 1: Right, depends on how disruptive this moment's going to be.
Speaker 1: I think the reason that so many people they reach
Speaker 1: into their brain and say, how do we solve this problem?
Speaker 1: How do we re educate people all of that and
Speaker 1: they understand the rate of change. Most people do not
Speaker 1: understand the rate of change of AI. So think about this.
Speaker 1: If Sam Altman is right and it's three hundred percent
Speaker 1: year over a year, okay, first of all, that's more
Speaker 1: than exponential growth.
Speaker 3: So that's like it.
Speaker 1: In fact, if you want to make it exponential, it's
Speaker 1: exponential growth every five point nine months, So that is
Speaker 1: almost a percentage improvement every day, and we're seeing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: So the rate of change is going to hit people
Speaker 1: like a sledgehammer. Like even if they're able to adapt
Speaker 1: to wave one, Wave two, those are going to be
Speaker 1: like done in six months. So what do you do
Speaker 1: when it's wave three, four five and they're like, I
Speaker 1: can't keep up. I don't want to keep up anymore.
Speaker 1: This is too confusing. People will get paralyzed by the
Speaker 1: fear of all the change. And when you really start
Speaker 1: thinking through this problem, eventually your brain hands you back
Speaker 1: a null's signal that says, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is going.
Speaker 3: To look like.
Speaker 1: This is what everybody calls the technological event horizon or
Speaker 1: the singularity. So you're at a point where you can
Speaker 1: no longer predict the future, not even a future that's
Speaker 1: six months away. So at that point, I'm telling you
Speaker 1: there will be massive distress. And when humans are scared,
Speaker 1: they act crazy. So people are like, I can't have
Speaker 1: a populace that's both scared and hungry. So it's a
Speaker 1: dark view of what's going to happen. But I think
Speaker 1: that's very real. We're going to go through a valley
Speaker 1: of despair before we come out the other side, and
Speaker 1: we're able to capture all the energy of the sun.
Speaker 1: And if people haven't thought about this, this is not
Speaker 1: an analogy.
Speaker 3: I mean this literally.
Speaker 1: Robots eat sunshine, and so the way that they stay
Speaker 1: energized is we're going to be able to capture the
Speaker 1: energy from the sun, which is absolutely plentiful, far more
Speaker 1: plentiful than we need to run even billions of robots
Speaker 1: to feed all the humans, all of it, all the
Speaker 1: manufacturing you could ever want to do. It's falling on
Speaker 1: the earth. I forget how long a single hour. If
Speaker 1: you could capture one hundred percent of the sunlight that
Speaker 1: is emitted from the sun, how long it would run
Speaker 1: the Earth. It's a long time. So we have way
Speaker 1: more energy than we need. We have a capture problem
Speaker 1: once you realize that unless AI hits an upper bound,
Speaker 1: which I haven't heard anybody except maybe the storage problem. Yes,
Speaker 1: but like again, these all are technological problems that show
Speaker 1: no known reason why.
Speaker 3: We can't solve them.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean there isn't one, because there are certain barriers.
Speaker 1: Like right now, it's can we make the chips fast enough? Okay,
Speaker 1: once we're able to make the chips fast enough, can
Speaker 1: we get the energy fast enough. If we can get
Speaker 1: the energy fast enough, can we get the transformers fast enough?
Speaker 1: And so we'll keep pushing the problem down. But you're
Speaker 1: gonna hit these bottlenecks. But nobody looks at it and says,
Speaker 1: but it, we won't be able to overcome them. And
Speaker 1: so if there is no upper bound to intelligence, I
Speaker 1: will draw a math equation for people. They're a moron
Speaker 1: is defined to somebody. I think with an eighty one IQ.
Speaker 1: Einstein had like one sixty whatever the actual numbers are.
Speaker 1: The difference between a definitional moron in Einstein is two
Speaker 1: point four x. So Einstein was two point four x
Speaker 1: times smarter than a moron, and a moron can't even
Speaker 1: get in the army. So the Army's like, I can't
Speaker 1: even put you forward to get shot. You'll create more problems.
Speaker 3: They're like, hold on, let.
Speaker 1: Me finish this, otherwise it won't make sense. So you've
Speaker 1: got Einstein's two point four x smarter than that, and
Speaker 1: he's like thinking his way to fundamental insights in physics
Speaker 1: that bring about nuclear energy, nuclear bombs, GPS, like all
Speaker 1: the things that have come of the atomic age. That's
Speaker 1: two point four x smarter than a moron. People are
Speaker 1: saying that AI isn't going to be ten times smarter
Speaker 1: or a thousand times smarter or one hundred thousand times
Speaker 1: or a million times. They're talking about there being no
Speaker 1: upper limit, which means you get into something that's a
Speaker 1: billion times smarter. So if you've got Einstein being two
Speaker 1: point four x, what happens when you get to ten?
Speaker 3: So I don't even need people.
Speaker 1: To buy into like the crazy far fetched a million,
Speaker 1: a billion times smarter, just ten x would be unrelatable.
Speaker 1: It would be a world no one that's alive today
Speaker 1: would recognize, And that what's that going to happen? In
Speaker 1: twenty years. You're really going to make me push it
Speaker 1: out thirty years. But like I plan to still be alive.
Speaker 1: This is not some three hundred years from now problem.
Speaker 2: No, it's a now problem. I've been coaching my team today.
Speaker 2: We had our calls and I said what I've been
Speaker 2: harping on for the last couple of weeks is like, guys, look,
Speaker 2: I need you all to be grasping onto these tools
Speaker 2: right now because you're either gonna use them, you're gonna
Speaker 2: get replaced by them, and our company will get replaced
Speaker 2: if we don't use these right now. I want to
Speaker 2: come back to that. We're going to dig into the aipiece.
Speaker 2: I just want to finish this last piece though. So
Speaker 2: you started teaching mindset. You realize people need it, You
Speaker 2: started teaching it. It started to become sort of a fools
Speaker 2: eron for you, at least on YouTube, but you still
Speaker 2: do coach on mindset.
Speaker 3: I believe right here that's still sort the two percent
Speaker 3: that are actually going to do something with you.
Speaker 2: Yes, So what would you say some mind shift or
Speaker 2: tools that you could give to people that might be
Speaker 2: useful for them today. Maybe someone who already has a
Speaker 2: little bit high agency that's ready to sort of make
Speaker 2: that jump.
Speaker 3: Do you have some frameworks for blue prosis?
Speaker 1: One hundred percent mindset is extraordinarily powerful and extraordinarily simple,
Speaker 1: but people don't do it because of a small handful
Speaker 1: of reasons. Okay, uh, the ultimate framework is really simple.
Speaker 1: You at all times need to know what end state
Speaker 1: you are seeking. What's your goal? If you don't have
Speaker 1: your goal, literally stop, nothing matters. You need to be
Speaker 1: able to say your goal and thirty five words or less.
Speaker 1: It needs to contain a what, by when, and how much?
Speaker 1: So the how much is like what's the kpi? How
Speaker 1: am I going to know I achieved that? I want
Speaker 1: to make the world a better place?
Speaker 3: Okay in what way?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: How will you define it? And you're going to feed
Speaker 3: like a million people at whatever it is?
Speaker 1: If you've got that goal, now cool goals make so
Speaker 1: Now there's going to be a string of things you're
Speaker 1: going to have to do successfully in order to achieve that.
Speaker 1: But you have to overcome what I call the chaos machine.
Speaker 1: The chaos machine is life. The second lot of thermodynamics
Speaker 1: is that in a closed system, everything moves towards disorder.
Speaker 1: So if you want to bring order to a closed system.
Speaker 1: You have to pour energy in so I mean it's
Speaker 1: not a metaphor, that's literal. So you're going to have
Speaker 1: to be highly intentional, with very directional energy to overcome
Speaker 1: the never ending set of problems that will be put
Speaker 1: before you as you try to achieve your goals. Most
Speaker 1: people break emotionally because it makes you confront something. This
Speaker 1: is the big one that people don't understand about themselves,
Speaker 1: which is that they trust their emotions, and they shouldn't.
Speaker 1: Your emotions will lie to you all the time. Your
Speaker 1: emotions are merely your your body's way of trying to
Speaker 1: express something to you from the subconscious. So it does
Speaker 1: not speak in words. It speaks and feelings. But those
Speaker 1: feelings are tuned to make sure that you live long
Speaker 1: enough to have kids that have kids. Now, unless you
Speaker 1: just told me my north star is to have kids
Speaker 1: that have kids, then your emotions are going to be
Speaker 1: out of step with that. So now what people have
Speaker 1: to do instead of steering by emotion, which is I'm
Speaker 1: telling you the vast majority of the planet steers by emotions.
Speaker 1: They do the things that make them feel the way
Speaker 1: they want to feel, and they avoid the things that
Speaker 1: make them feel the way they don't want to feel.
Speaker 1: But if you're going to make progress, you're going to
Speaker 1: fail a lot. And failure is not going to make
Speaker 1: you feel the way you want to feel unless you
Speaker 1: pull a trick, which I'll get to in a second.
Speaker 1: So the rule is, you have your goal, you know
Speaker 1: exactly what you need to do. That goal now makes demands.
Speaker 1: All of those demands are basically how you're going to
Speaker 1: overcome the obstacles between where you are and where you
Speaker 1: want to get to. And there's only one way to
Speaker 1: do that, and that is to think from first principles,
Speaker 1: using what I call the physics of progress. So progress
Speaker 1: works in a certain way. Then you're going to take
Speaker 1: the framework of the scientific method and you're going to
Speaker 1: recontextualize it for life, for business, for relationships, whatever. It
Speaker 1: is a minor tweak, but it's still the same idea,
Speaker 1: and that is you can say, I know where I
Speaker 1: want to go, and I know what the obstacle is
Speaker 1: between where I'm at and where I want to get to,
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to come up with my best guess,
Speaker 1: my hypothesis on how to overcome that obstacle. And the
Speaker 1: physics of progress is a me thing so other people.
Speaker 1: Basically everybody does the same thing. It's why I call
Speaker 1: it the physics. Everybody calls it something different. The only
Speaker 1: way to run it is to think from first principles.
Speaker 1: So you have to get out from under your emotions.
Speaker 1: You have to be asking yourself one simple question, how
Speaker 1: does the world actually work? And then to understand that
Speaker 1: your brain lies to you all the time. Your brain
Speaker 1: is a shortcut machine. It is always looking for a
Speaker 1: rule of thumb, like how does this work? I just
Speaker 1: want to get the gist. The problem is if you're
Speaker 1: just is wrong, then it's going to lead you nowhere fast.
Speaker 1: But because people build their self esteem about around being better, faster, stronger, smarter,
Speaker 1: they focus on being right because it makes them feel
Speaker 1: good and they want to do that to make them
Speaker 1: feel the way they want to feel. And so this
Speaker 1: is what you see in politics. That's what you see
Speaker 1: everybody screaming over tariffs because everybody wants to be right.
Speaker 1: And this is why you see me banging the drum.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out if I've mapped the
Speaker 1: world accurately. Now, why do I care about that? Because
Speaker 1: my life is driven by what I just walked you through.
Speaker 1: I know what my goal is trying to get there,
Speaker 1: that goal makes a whole bunch of demands. I'm going
Speaker 1: up against the chaos machine. But I know something that
Speaker 1: seemingly a lot of people do not internalize, which is
Speaker 1: that skills have utility. Meaning I don't read a book
Speaker 1: so I can say that I read it. I read
Speaker 1: a book because it gives me information. I turn that
Speaker 1: information into a thing I can now do in the
Speaker 1: real world that other people don't know how to do.
Speaker 1: That allows me to overcome more obstacles, to outcompete them
Speaker 1: and make progress. So I don't care if I embarrass
Speaker 1: myself by saying this is what I think is going
Speaker 1: to happen. There's a fifty one percent chance that this
Speaker 1: all goes wrong and then it goes swimmingly and it
Speaker 1: just looked like it was guaranteed or it just completely
Speaker 1: crashes and burns, and all the people that were like, see,
Speaker 1: I told you so, Mike, Yeah, I don't care about that.
Speaker 1: You have completely misjudged what I'm trying to do here.
Speaker 1: I needed to plant to flag, which is why people
Speaker 1: can get me to answer a question literally about anything,
Speaker 1: and I'll say okay, this, So I'm thinking about it
Speaker 1: now because I don't care if they make fun of
Speaker 1: me in a year. What I know is skills have utility,
Speaker 1: and that as long as I learn my lesson, I
Speaker 1: can go ooh I thought this, but this actually ended
Speaker 1: up happening. That means that I have a wrong vision
Speaker 1: of how the world works. But this gave me a
Speaker 1: little bit more information. And because I don't have an
Speaker 1: ego about it, I'm just gonna be like cool, I'm
Speaker 1: going to update my thinking now. I'm ready to move
Speaker 1: forward in a more effective way. And so if people
Speaker 1: just run that all day every day, they can have
Speaker 1: all the success that their emotional stability, their drive, and
Speaker 1: their level of.
Speaker 3: Intellect will allow. That's a really good walkthrough on that
Speaker 3: mental model. Well, thank you.
Speaker 2: Starting with the end in mind, living with intentionality right
Speaker 2: on everything. It's something that I come across quite a
Speaker 2: bit somewhere. I've spent a lot of my time thinking
Speaker 2: about lady. I have some high end coaching programs and
Speaker 2: we coach some very successful people, and I find that
Speaker 2: they're not. They come to me with basic, very vague
Speaker 2: questions like should I buy bitcoin? Should I sell this? Asset,
Speaker 2: Should I sell my business? Should I whatever? Right?
Speaker 3: And they're never able to come to any type of decisions.
Speaker 2: And I found after years of doing this, it's because
Speaker 2: none of them are clear on where they're trying to go.
Speaker 2: They don't know what problem they're trying to solve specifically,
Speaker 2: So then almost no path looks correct. It's the Alice
Speaker 2: in Wonderland, right, like.
Speaker 3: Which passion I go? I don't where you're trying to go?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, then any path will do. What would you say,
Speaker 2: because you've spent a lot of time thinking about this,
Speaker 2: what would you say if you were to go go down,
Speaker 2: go downtown and stop one hundred people, how many of
Speaker 2: them could articulate in thirty five words or less their
Speaker 2: specific goal?
Speaker 3: Zero zero.
Speaker 1: I have people in my program that have listened to
Speaker 1: my classes. They come before me for the live part
Speaker 1: and I'm like, cool, what's your goal?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: They think they know. That's the terrifying part. So this
Speaker 1: is and listen, everything I teach, I teach because I
Speaker 1: made all of these mistakes. I'm constantly catching myself falling
Speaker 1: into the same traps. So this is not me like, see,
Speaker 1: I get it, and you guys don't this means just
Speaker 1: like I get what it's what it's like to be
Speaker 1: a human, but we are all trapped inside of a
Speaker 1: brain that uses emotions to make us act. And people
Speaker 1: think they're making decisions based on logic, but they're not.
Speaker 1: They're making decisions based on feelings that give them the
Speaker 1: ability to act. And once I realized, oh, my emotions
Speaker 1: are actually not good at detecting what I need to
Speaker 1: do in order to make progress, and so I'll end
Speaker 1: up in this eternal loop of doing what feels good,
Speaker 1: protecting my ego, never wanting to admit that I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: and that's going to go nowhere fast. So what if
Speaker 1: I flipped it and said, I'm going to value myself
Speaker 1: for my willingness to stare nakedly at my inadequacies, and
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna be proud of the fact that I
Speaker 1: can be laughed at longer than the next person, that
Speaker 1: people can think I'm a fool. But behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: my knowledge is grow and grow and growing, growing, growing.
Speaker 1: And so I take myself from scranging on my couch
Speaker 1: cushions to find enough change, but gas my car to
Speaker 1: go to a job interview to ultimately build in my
Speaker 1: multiple companies, selling one of them for a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: So once you do that, you realize whoa like. Actually
Speaker 1: getting good at things is the name of the game.
Speaker 1: But in a way where like the Kobe Bryant quote,
Speaker 1: booze don't block dunks, meaning no matter how much somebody
Speaker 1: hates you, if you're good enough, they can't stop you.
Speaker 1: And so becoming obsessed with that idea is ultimately the
Speaker 1: thing that freese people. But you have to get out
Speaker 1: from under the how bad it feels when you realize
Speaker 1: that you're wrong. So anyway, the whole idea is that
Speaker 1: feelings will make it feel like the story you're telling
Speaker 1: yourself is true instead of a hypothesis. And so they
Speaker 1: have a vague sense of what they want to do.
Speaker 1: It feels good, and so because it feels good, they
Speaker 1: believe they have clarity, but they don't.
Speaker 2: The next question is I want to shift into AI.
Speaker 2: But this piece is actually a segue that I think
Speaker 2: is really important. So I just had this coaching program
Speaker 2: here last week, and I brought in some high level
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs and this time I decided to get a little
Speaker 2: bit smarter, and I sent them pre work, and this
Speaker 2: pre work was for them to do some exercises, spend
Speaker 2: a couple hours to figure out really clearly, specifically a
Speaker 2: smart goal what it is they're trying to achieve, so
Speaker 2: that we could spend the time here for day and
Speaker 2: a half building on top of them. And they came
Speaker 2: back with the most vague ideas, even after I gave
Speaker 2: them very detailed specific prompts mental exercise, all these things, right.
Speaker 2: And so what I find is that I often say
Speaker 2: that the quality of your life come down the questions
Speaker 2: that you ask, and when you ask vague questions, you
Speaker 2: get back vague answers. And so they all came with
Speaker 2: these very vague goals, and I'm like I, so then
Speaker 2: we have to spend half the day just trying to
Speaker 2: get clear on the goals, right. And so that's problem
Speaker 2: number one. And so what I find from that is,
Speaker 2: now if we take that into AI, and a lot
Speaker 2: of people think that AI is going to make them
Speaker 2: so much smarter, I don't find that to be the case,
Speaker 2: because people can't think clearly, they can't think specifically, and
Speaker 2: they ask terrible questions. So when you ask AI, write
Speaker 2: me a book, what are you gonna get? Should I
Speaker 2: buy bitcoin? Like, what do you is my investment portfolio
Speaker 2: d risk? Like when you ask it broad vague questions,
Speaker 2: you're going to get back terrible answers. And so really,
Speaker 2: these types of people who are unable to think clearly
Speaker 2: and ask smart specific questions aren't really going to be
Speaker 2: able to get the full benefit of a tool like
Speaker 2: AI facts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is it.
Speaker 1: Well, so right now I'll say I'm kind of glad
Speaker 1: because we're in this narrow window that I expect to
Speaker 1: be very brief where we all still matter in the process. Right,
Speaker 1: So my thing is that I so for people that
Speaker 1: don't know anything about me or know my story. I
Speaker 1: got into business because I went to film school. I
Speaker 1: wanted to make movies and I just could not figure
Speaker 1: out how to break into the industry. Finally, write a
Speaker 1: script gets turned into a film.
Speaker 2: It was a horrible experience. I was completely devastated.
Speaker 1: I had met these two very successful entrepreneurs and they said, listen, man,
Speaker 1: you're coming too the world with your handout, and if
Speaker 1: you want to control the art, you have to control
Speaker 1: the resources, so you should get into business.
Speaker 3: And get rich.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, that's a brilliant idea, I thought,
Speaker 1: I would take eighteen months took fifteen years. But it worked,
Speaker 1: and along the way I realized all the things that
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Skills have utility, that you can
Speaker 1: control your own life. But it was a very grueling
Speaker 1: process of realizing all of the things that I try
Speaker 1: to teach people, but everybody ends up getting locked in that.
Speaker 3: I'm lost, and.
Speaker 1: I don't realize I'm lost, and that's the problem. So
Speaker 1: take taste. This is the biggest thing with AI. If
Speaker 1: you don't realize that you're asking AI to do something
Speaker 1: that you don't have any taste in, you're in trouble.
Speaker 1: So right now, when AI hands me back an answer
Speaker 1: on like a screenplay that I'm working on, I'll be like,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense, that's cheesy, that's not working. And
Speaker 1: then the AI is going to say, as it's trained
Speaker 1: to do, you're right now, what if I'm not right?
Speaker 1: And that's how you get into a death spiral. People
Speaker 1: either take the first thing it gives them, not understanding
Speaker 1: the AI is meant to zoom in on what's the
Speaker 1: most likely thing someone will say, which means it's sort
Speaker 1: of the most blaw answer ever. You've got to get
Speaker 1: into like a really narrow band over here where it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is unique, this is fresh. I want to bring
Speaker 1: these different ideas together and no, no, no, that's not
Speaker 1: quite right. And then you can polish on top. And
Speaker 1: so it basically becomes a way to cut down a
Speaker 1: lot of work that would otherwise stall you out. Coding
Speaker 1: is the easy one. It's like as soon as you start,
Speaker 1: you know, to write that file that you've written a
Speaker 1: thousand times, it always has to be like custom built.
Speaker 3: It just auto.
Speaker 1: Populates from right and so now it speeds you up
Speaker 1: whatever two, three, five, ten X, and it will obviously
Speaker 1: just keep going, keep going and get better. But right
Speaker 1: now it's a pretty magical window where if you have
Speaker 1: built a set of skills, the AI will extend your capabilities.
Speaker 1: I think of it like an exoskeleton. If you can
Speaker 1: now bend over and pick up a much heavier weight
Speaker 1: than you could before. But if you're already strong, then
Speaker 1: it's amplifying a really good base.
Speaker 2: What I've found is I've been an entrepreneur investor my
Speaker 2: career since I was eighteen. I started buying homes in
Speaker 2: south central LA fix and flipping them, and I've built
Speaker 2: dozens of businesses and exits and all these things and
Speaker 2: this wide range of things, and I'm this massive generalist.
Speaker 2: I'm the jack of all trades, master of none. And
Speaker 2: for the first time that's to my benefit because AI
Speaker 2: can make me instantly deep in each one of those pieces. Right, So,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, to your point, this exoskeleton, like
Speaker 2: I just feel like I'm just like plugged in and
Speaker 2: like we can just happen to all this thing. But
Speaker 2: going back to that for a second, So if the
Speaker 2: majority of people, back to the mindset thing, don't know
Speaker 2: what they want, can't think specifically, you can't think clearly,
Speaker 2: don't know what questions to ask, the AI isn't going
Speaker 2: to help them be any better at it. And so
Speaker 2: what you're going to have is the small percentage the
Speaker 2: two percent of people that you said that are able
Speaker 2: to ask good questions and are able to think strategically,
Speaker 2: are you going to be able to tap into this
Speaker 2: technology and those two percent of people will continue to
Speaker 2: see the smaller amount of narrow this divide between wealth
Speaker 2: and poor, right where the two percent are going to
Speaker 2: excel and the majority people don't know how to use
Speaker 2: the tool.
Speaker 3: And they're going to fall further and further behind.
Speaker 2: And so it sort of exacerbates that. You did an
Speaker 2: interview with Mark Andrissen and that was really good and
Speaker 2: warned about you know, this AI information war things like that.
Speaker 2: You talked about, you know, the impact on jobs, which
Speaker 2: we're sort of talking about. You said, there's one job
Speaker 2: AI can't do. So is that the hope for some
Speaker 2: people what AI can't do?
Speaker 1: That anything that we think AI can't do right now
Speaker 1: will be short lived. I think ultimately, once AI is
Speaker 1: truly agentic and embodied and smarter than any human alive,
Speaker 1: there just isn't going to be anything that AI can't do.
Speaker 1: Your only thing is it's not human. And some people
Speaker 1: are going to care deeply about that. I don't think
Speaker 1: that will be only benefit. I think that there will
Speaker 1: be violence what I call from New Puritans who really
Speaker 1: eschew certainly the technological augmentation of a human. They're gonna
Speaker 1: rebel against that. We are already bringing back extinct species.
Speaker 3: I saw people are paying attention. Yep.
Speaker 1: So first the dire wolf, which hasn't been seen in
Speaker 1: ten thousand years. Next up they're doing a wooly mammoth
Speaker 1: and like actually bring them back, not like simulations like
Speaker 1: you can go pet a dire wolf. So humans will
Speaker 1: eventually start modifying our own DNA, and people.
Speaker 3: Are going to have a problem with that.
Speaker 1: Some people have a problem with that are already augmenting
Speaker 1: themselves with technology. If you've ever seen anybody with a
Speaker 1: cochlear implant, you've now got the people from Neulink that
Speaker 1: can play video games with their minds, and the guys
Speaker 1: that play it with their minds are saying, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to create a league for us because we're so
Speaker 1: much better than people that actually have to use a
Speaker 1: mouse and keyboarder controller. That's a real thing, yeah, right now,
Speaker 1: this very minute.
Speaker 3: Wow, I mean it is.
Speaker 2: The exoskeleton, right, So we have seen robotics helping people
Speaker 2: that are paralyzed things like that, and these are just
Speaker 2: to your point, augmented technologies that sort of help us
Speaker 2: do that. I saw today it was all over Twitter.
Speaker 2: Was the Shopify ceo had an internal memo leaked.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you saw that. I didn't know.
Speaker 2: So there was an internal memo leaked from the Shopify CEO,
Speaker 2: and it mandated that AI usage be a fundamental expectation
Speaker 2: for all employees. So you won't get a job at
Speaker 2: shop Fight if you're not proficient in it. But but
Speaker 2: even more than that, integrating AI proficiency into performance reviews
Speaker 2: and encouraging a exploration in project prototyping. So now getting
Speaker 2: the job is a requirement. Well, having AI skills is
Speaker 2: the requirement to get the job, But in your job reviews,
Speaker 2: if you're not growing in your skill and proficiency with it,
Speaker 2: that will count against you and your job performance for sure.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 2: Now is that getting backlash? Well, what happened is it
Speaker 2: got leaked and so it was like going all over Twitter,
Speaker 2: and so the CEO came out and said, hey, here
Speaker 2: it is Boom and just like put.
Speaker 1: It out there like that seems so self evident. And
Speaker 1: you've you said at the beginning, like you're either going
Speaker 1: to use it or you're going to get replaced by somebody.
Speaker 3: Who you mean, That's what I'm telling my internal team
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Everybody should be.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, right, Like if you're not saying that.
Speaker 3: You're going to get blindsided. You're going to get blindsided.
Speaker 2: And we have this you said, we have this period
Speaker 2: of time you said where we still matter. I was
Speaker 2: thinking something different the saying is that the future is
Speaker 2: not evenly distributed. And so I tell my team we
Speaker 2: have about a year before everybody catches up, and so
Speaker 2: if we go super hard right now, we have about
Speaker 2: a year to really gap people. And I think that's
Speaker 2: going to be super important.
Speaker 1: Man, We're having those same conversations inside Impact Theory four.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, now AI is amazing. But what I've been
Speaker 2: really thinking about and starting to where I brought a
Speaker 2: person on just to start buildings out as AI agents.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned that before, so you think about like
Speaker 2: AI agents, which there was a book that I read
Speaker 2: probably fifteen years ago and it was maybe yeah about that.
Speaker 2: It was called A Whole New Mind by Daniel Pink
Speaker 2: and it talks about how we have a creative side
Speaker 2: of our brain and analytical side of our brain. And
Speaker 2: now you know, several hundred years ago the thought didn't
Speaker 2: need the creative side of our brain, and they're doing
Speaker 2: lobotomies and all these things, and so the entire world
Speaker 2: has been built up for the analytical thinker and SAT scores.
Speaker 2: So schools build for analytical thinkers, and SAT scores are
Speaker 2: analytical thinkers, and that has been the right path. My
Speaker 2: mom wanted me to go be an engineer, right, that
Speaker 2: was the past. You wanted me to go down, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that. But he said that
Speaker 2: the Internet commoditized technical workers because what happened is.
Speaker 3: It opened up the world.
Speaker 2: So now I can go on to upwork or Fiver
Speaker 2: and I can hire a coder or a program or
Speaker 2: a coder or whatever. And now they're in Pakistan or
Speaker 2: in they're in India or wherever they are. And so
Speaker 2: also to commoditized these technical workers. And so he said
Speaker 2: that the new world is going to be driven by
Speaker 2: the creative thinker, so not the technical worker. More like
Speaker 2: a conductor of an orchestra. I don't know how to
Speaker 2: play the instruments better than any of view, but I
Speaker 2: can make you make beautiful music together.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: And so you have all these countries basically coming out
Speaker 2: of poverty with bop skills, right, And so they're commoditized
Speaker 2: technical workers. And whether that be research assistance, whether that
Speaker 2: be pair of legals doing briefs, or coders or accountants
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. And so if I were hire
Speaker 2: somebody on Fiver to go do SEO for me, that's
Speaker 2: an autonomous agent. But now we can just program AI
Speaker 2: to do that. And this is gaining speed at a rapid, rapid,
Speaker 2: rapid rate.
Speaker 3: Curious what your thoughts are on that?
Speaker 2: My well, what do you see AI agents doing to
Speaker 2: disrupt sort of the world and at what speed?
Speaker 3: Before I give my thoughts.
Speaker 1: The speed will be extremely rapid. So by twenty twenty seven,
Speaker 1: you'll have agents, you'll have AI basically helping to write
Speaker 1: AI improvements, running a lot of the experimentations, and so
Speaker 1: you'll have decades of advancements in a week. And that's
Speaker 1: the very shrewd minds in the space. The guys that
Speaker 1: like have been making these predictions that have been coming
Speaker 1: true are the ones saying that that's not me making
Speaker 1: that number up.
Speaker 3: So it's twenty.
Speaker 1: Twenty five already, we're rapidly approaching the middle of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, So this is less than twenty four months
Speaker 1: away that you're seeing like this kind kind of blinding
Speaker 1: speed what they call the intelligence explosion. So that's coming
Speaker 1: very fast. That will create a work environment for sure
Speaker 1: that nobody can conceive of. You are at that point
Speaker 1: a fish like twenty twenty eight is beyond the technological
Speaker 1: event horizon. Nobody knows what's going to what twenty twenty
Speaker 1: eight is going to look like. So the fact that
Speaker 1: something three years from now is like, I can't even
Speaker 1: begin to tell you what that's going to look like.
Speaker 1: So in the workforce, the only way from where I'm
Speaker 1: sitting to make any sense of this is what you
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, which is you need to be
Speaker 1: at the edge of it. You need to be deploying it,
Speaker 1: using it, improving your skill sets, figuring out how do
Speaker 1: I whatever it is that I'm doing, how do I
Speaker 1: make this work? And the people that are going to
Speaker 1: pull away are the people that have taste, that understand
Speaker 1: when something's good and when it's not, people that have
Speaker 1: something that they want to build and they have the
Speaker 1: courage to go build that thing. I think about it
Speaker 1: a lot. It's like taking if you take the US
Speaker 1: economy and it's like a big sheet of glass, and
Speaker 1: there's like a few really big companies and then you know,
Speaker 1: sort of a handful of little medium ones, and then
Speaker 1: for the most part everything else just these small companies.
Speaker 1: You were about to drop that and those big companies
Speaker 1: that make up the vast majority of this sheet of
Speaker 1: glass are just going to shatter into a ton of
Speaker 1: small companies, and I can't remer if you said it
Speaker 1: before we started rolling, but there's going to be many
Speaker 1: billion dollar companies made by one, two or three people.
Speaker 1: They get together, they deploy full AI orgs, and they
Speaker 1: just run. They give the AI agents like money, the
Speaker 1: ability to move, to buy things, to do whatever they
Speaker 1: need to do, and all of a sudden, all of
Speaker 1: those employees that you would have historically had they just
Speaker 1: go away. And so the question becomes what does it
Speaker 1: look like when let's say even thirty percent of the
Speaker 1: total workforce now starts their own company, Like what does
Speaker 1: that do? How many things will that commoditize? How far
Speaker 1: will that push innovation? And then how long will it
Speaker 1: last before it's like, actually, human, you're just kind of
Speaker 1: slowing me down and I'm the AI and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, how about you just tell me what you
Speaker 1: want done and I go do it and.
Speaker 3: I sort of sit at a utopian dream. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean sort of.
Speaker 1: So the there were two books written about the future
Speaker 1: that were hyper prescient. One has already come true, one
Speaker 1: may be about to come true. Unless nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 1: the surveillance state as terrifying as advertised, then you've got
Speaker 1: a brave new world, which was a world of plenty
Speaker 1: where everybody does drugs to numb themselves. And in a
Speaker 1: world where you don't have to work for anything, finding
Speaker 1: meaning and purpose is not going to be easy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you think about like the base law of
Speaker 2: economics is based off of scace, and so when you
Speaker 2: think about work and labor and knowledge, it's also built
Speaker 2: on scarcity. So an attorney is able to charge a
Speaker 2: premium because they have a scarcity of knowledge that they've
Speaker 2: been able to acquire. Or a doctor has scarcity of
Speaker 2: knowledgey've been oun to acquire. But when knowledge no longer
Speaker 2: has scarcity, how has that changed? And to your point
Speaker 2: about the agents, I saw this, so we have, like
Speaker 2: I said, I brought somebody on and we're building out
Speaker 2: these agent workflows, and I saw this breakdown of somebody.
Speaker 3: He put it online and it was basically the org chart.
Speaker 2: And then all the officers of the company had agent shadows,
Speaker 2: and the shadows would the agent shadows would just shadow
Speaker 2: all their calls or meetings, all these things, and the
Speaker 2: CEO could call on a phone call the agent shadow
Speaker 2: and discuss all the things that's been going on and
Speaker 2: now they've got each of the officers agent shadows communicating
Speaker 2: between themselves.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: I mean just like that, right, and we're just in
Speaker 2: a couple months into this. But when you think about
Speaker 2: like an AI agent, like go out and find the
Speaker 2: top five business models and just instantly duplicate them for me,
Speaker 2: and go hire the other agents that you need and
Speaker 2: the other agents that you need, and go build out
Speaker 2: this agent workforce to go duplicate this and so instantly
Speaker 2: disrupt every online company.
Speaker 3: I hear about MCP.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the MPC servers, Oh my god, like the So
Speaker 1: the protocol that they're going to be using that will
Speaker 1: let these AIS talk to each other, is that this
Speaker 1: is where it's going to get crazy because right now
Speaker 1: agents will dead end pretty quickly. But with the MCP protocol,
Speaker 1: they're going to be able to go in. AI will
Speaker 1: be able to talk to all other AI do their things.
Speaker 1: And so now, whether it's accessing your calendar, booking a flight,
Speaker 1: checking hotels, I mean just I can't even imagine going
Speaker 1: through your tender profile for you.
Speaker 3: I mean it literally.
Speaker 1: Anything that deploys the standard and Anthropic and Open AI
Speaker 1: have already agreed to it. So that's two of the
Speaker 1: big boys. I'd be surprised that more people don't. This
Speaker 1: is like the TCPIP moment for AI, where now it's
Speaker 1: just like you can just hyperlink and it all connects.
Speaker 3: That's gonna be cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this kind of takes me to the next subject
Speaker 2: that I want to jump into is bitcoin. So when
Speaker 2: I think about bitcoin. I gave a talk at I
Speaker 2: gave the closing keynote at the Bitcoin Conference in Abu
Speaker 2: Dhabi a few months ago, and I talked about sort
Speaker 2: of this bitcoin forecast twenty thirty, twenty forty, twenty fifty,
Speaker 2: and talked about how we have these fifty EU repeating
Speaker 2: tech cycles and if you put bitcoin into that, it
Speaker 2: sort of gives us a roadmap. And a lot of
Speaker 2: people think that bitcoin has failed because it's a store
Speaker 2: of value but it's not a medium exchange and blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. But they don't understand the monetary evolution that
Speaker 2: has to happen in the time frames that happens. So
Speaker 2: it hasn't failed. It will get there eventually. But Gresham's
Speaker 2: law states that good money drives out bad, so we
Speaker 2: don't have pre sixty five quarters and dimes in circulation
Speaker 2: anymore because they're pure silver. You wouldn't spend that, and
Speaker 2: if you did, you definitely wouldn't spend it.
Speaker 3: You'd save it.
Speaker 2: So you spend the bad money the post sixty five,
Speaker 2: you saved.
Speaker 3: The pre right.
Speaker 2: So you wouldn't want to use big coined to buy
Speaker 2: a cup of coffee when I can just spend Fiat
Speaker 2: to do that. So then you start thinking, well, how
Speaker 2: does bitcoin evolve from that store value to a medium exchange. Well,
Speaker 2: we would want to use it only for things that
Speaker 2: it could only be used for, and so then you
Speaker 2: start thinking, Okay, what are the things that it could
Speaker 2: do that FIAT can't, Like micro transactions, high frequency transactions,
Speaker 2: things like that, and you start to think about AI agents.
Speaker 2: So AI agents can't have a bank account because you
Speaker 2: have to have KYC and AML you have to be
Speaker 2: a person to do that. So they can have their
Speaker 2: own bitcoin address, their own bitcoin wallet, and they could
Speaker 2: do micro transactions fractions of penny back and forth at
Speaker 2: the speed of light a thousand times if they wanted to.
Speaker 3: And so we're.
Speaker 2: Already seeing there was an AI agent that was programmed
Speaker 2: to go build a business, find names, business plans, find
Speaker 2: the domain names and went and bought a domain name
Speaker 2: using bitcoin over the Lightning network. So already seeing truth
Speaker 2: terminal or a different one. I'm not sure which one.
Speaker 2: I did that on truth terminals correct, So it's already
Speaker 2: And so it seems like with the AI agents they're
Speaker 2: going to need some form of payment to hire each other.
Speaker 2: Pay them out the cost of compute plus energy not to.
Speaker 1: Derail though, So on bitcoin, I am so nonplussed by
Speaker 1: the argument that this has to be a medium of exchange.
Speaker 1: So tell me if you think I'm just naive and
Speaker 1: I'm missing something. But to me, the thing that would
Speaker 1: cause bitcoin to fail is to have a currency that
Speaker 1: can't be inflated. So if there was a currency that
Speaker 1: couldn't be inflated, I wouldn't even think twice about bitcoins.
Speaker 2: Is about I put my money in whatever that thing
Speaker 2: is bitcoin? Is that?
Speaker 1: So right now, in a world where your money is
Speaker 1: being inflated, you have to have somewhere to go where
Speaker 1: your money can't be inflated. So now the only catch
Speaker 1: up with bitcoin me is that people love its volatility.
Speaker 3: I hate it.
Speaker 1: I want it to just be a static place I
Speaker 1: can put my money and be like, cool, this is
Speaker 1: going to be worth the same inten.
Speaker 3: Courl that it is. That's gold, you got that gold
Speaker 3: also works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but in a world where it becomes more and
Speaker 1: more virtual, I don't under like when I think about
Speaker 1: a kid who grows up and they were let's say nine,
Speaker 1: two years ago. For them, bitcoin just exists. It's just
Speaker 1: a thing. People take it seriously. It's an option, Like
Speaker 1: they don't have any sense of like, oh it was
Speaker 1: born and there was a time where people thought it
Speaker 1: was weird. They're just like, oh, yeah, bitcoin. It's like
Speaker 1: that my daughter thought everything was a.
Speaker 2: Touch screen touch every computer, kay, of course.
Speaker 1: So I think my thesis anyway with bitcoin people can
Speaker 1: think what they will is that the world is going
Speaker 1: to be more virtual tomorrow than it is today. And
Speaker 1: one of the most important things to virtualize is money.
Speaker 1: Certainly don't want it to be a CBDC stable coin
Speaker 1: helps a lot, but that's still, at least as imagine
Speaker 1: right now, going to be backed by a fiat currency.
Speaker 1: So that doesn't solve my problem of inflation. So having
Speaker 1: a inflation resistant thing that I can self custody.
Speaker 3: Solves that problem.
Speaker 1: So I've obviously heard people now starting to talk about
Speaker 1: this has failed because it's not a medium of exchange.
Speaker 3: That just doesn't even make my radar.
Speaker 2: Gold can be, but it can't like I hold gold,
Speaker 2: gold can't be in the digital age. And ye, gold
Speaker 2: requires centralization to get the velocity, which is why it failed.
Speaker 1: So why don't people complain about that because they're saying
Speaker 1: it's used in like electronics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, one's arguing that with gold. But back to
Speaker 2: the point. So if you think about bitcoin and the
Speaker 2: attributes and so in the monetary evolution, you go from
Speaker 2: a collectible it's a cool rock, feather, seashell baseball card.
Speaker 2: But some collectibles most don't, but some collectibles become a
Speaker 2: store value. Some people put a lot of wealth in
Speaker 2: their baseball cards or Pokemon cards or whatever, right art
Speaker 2: and art, and then some collectibles, if they have the
Speaker 2: right I'm sorry, store values, if they have the right attributes,
Speaker 2: could become a medium exchange, which would be portable, durable, divisible, recognizable, fungible,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And do you accept that that's an important
Speaker 2: part of Bitcoin's future. Well, let me I'll answer that
Speaker 2: by asking you a question. So if you imagine the future,
Speaker 2: you said, there's two books that were written that tell
Speaker 2: us the future that are very clear, and one of
Speaker 2: them was nineteen eighty four. And why is that one
Speaker 2: so scary? You said, it's an authoritarian state. So the
Speaker 2: government if you read you know, Anatomy of the State
Speaker 2: or Bastiet's the law, you understand the role of the
Speaker 2: government is to always grow and to always retain power.
Speaker 3: And so governments are going to try and do two things.
Speaker 2: Number one, continue to inflate away the currency and number two,
Speaker 2: continue to take more power.
Speaker 3: And more freedom away.
Speaker 2: That's that's the role of the state of the government.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: In North Korea, you're not allowed to have money. Let
Speaker 2: me give you another example. So bitcoin has lots of attributes.
Speaker 3: Permissionless.
Speaker 2: There's over a billion adults in the world right now
Speaker 2: today who are not allowed to use the financial global
Speaker 2: financial system because they don't have permission to join. A
Speaker 2: billion adults. There's eight billion people. I'm talking a billion adults,
Speaker 2: so they don't have permission to join. So think about
Speaker 2: the mind share that the world has lost. If we
Speaker 2: brought a billion adults into the world to bring more
Speaker 2: solutions and solve more problems and more value.
Speaker 3: But they're out.
Speaker 2: They left the war torn country. They don't have proper documentation.
Speaker 2: They are a fifteen year old kid that happened to
Speaker 2: be born in the wrong country.
Speaker 3: They're out, so think about that.
Speaker 2: They don't have permission in the current system of medium
Speaker 2: exchange currency. It's also censorship resistant. It's also immutable. So
Speaker 2: for example, immutable, why is that important? Well, in India
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, they canceled all the big bills and
Speaker 2: you had a month to bring them all in and
Speaker 2: claim them and show all the paperwork of how you
Speaker 2: earn the bills or you lost them. But India is
Speaker 2: a high cash country, so a lot of people had
Speaker 2: this money saved and they lost it all.
Speaker 3: It wasn't immutable.
Speaker 2: Why censorship resistant. The lady that cuts my hair is
Speaker 2: from Afghanistan. She was there when she was a girl.
Speaker 2: When the Biden administration pulled out in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: the disaster, the Taliban took it over. She's like, Mark,
Speaker 2: I just feel so bad. I know these ladies back
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan, they need so much help. I'd love to
Speaker 2: send them money if there was away, but I can't
Speaker 2: because the Taliban took over the bank. So it's censorship resistant.
Speaker 2: So in this future world, I believe to the point
Speaker 2: I think you believe nineteen eighty four it wasn't supposed
Speaker 2: to be a playbook, right, an instruction manual, but it
Speaker 2: seems to be that way. And in North Korea and
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan and the US dodged a curveball that Europe
Speaker 2: is trying to launch a CBDC. Now in that world
Speaker 2: that we're rapidly going.
Speaker 3: Into, we will probably need I.
Speaker 2: Mean, people today need a censorship resistant way to transmit value.
Speaker 2: And so the question that you would ask yourself is
Speaker 2: do you think governments print more money or less money
Speaker 2: in the future, and do you think they become more
Speaker 2: authoritarian and less authoritarian in the future.
Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned.
Speaker 2: Earlier, you know what AI is doing in the rise
Speaker 2: of or the divide between the rich and the poor
Speaker 2: and potentially leading to some sort of mass civil unrest.
Speaker 2: I know Verydally is super big on that topic. So
Speaker 2: in that if that were to happen and we got
Speaker 2: more civil unrest, then what do governments do. Do they
Speaker 2: take more power, become more authoritarian? And if so, do
Speaker 2: we need a way to transact outside of the state.
Speaker 2: Yap all strikes me as a very good idea.
Speaker 1: Now I'm a much bigger believer in the wrench attack,
Speaker 1: I think than a lot of people. If the government
Speaker 1: wants your bitcoin, they're going to get your bitcoin.
Speaker 2: They won't And here's why. So have you read the
Speaker 2: book Sovereign Individual? I have read like the first two chapters.
Speaker 2: It as a no, and you gave up on it.
Speaker 2: I I gave up.
Speaker 1: It was interesting, but other things, Yeah, it took its
Speaker 1: place and I never went back to it.
Speaker 3: So if you think about like the state, the a state.
Speaker 2: The country, the government has a monopoly on violence obviously, right,
Speaker 2: But like all things, there's trade offs and there's returns. Right.
Speaker 2: So like in nineteen thirty three, when the government sees
Speaker 2: the gold, it was very easy for them to seize
Speaker 2: the gold because all the goal was in the bank, right,
Speaker 2: So all the gold went in the bank. They gave
Speaker 2: you an IOU claim for the gold, so we could
Speaker 2: speed up the velocity of money while they held the gold.
Speaker 3: So it was very easy.
Speaker 2: For them to put a bank holiday in place. Banks
Speaker 2: were closed for a week. When they opened the banks
Speaker 2: back up, you were no longer able to get your gold. Now,
Speaker 2: if they had to ride out in nineteen thirties across
Speaker 2: the plane to ranchers and farmers with guns. They had
Speaker 2: to go house to house to house to house to
Speaker 2: house and where's your gold, go through where's your treasure map,
Speaker 2: and they had to go dig it up.
Speaker 3: Would that have been realistic?
Speaker 2: The return on violence would have been way too low.
Speaker 2: Every one of those ranchers with guns would have fought
Speaker 2: back the chance of them finding one or two gold coins.
Speaker 3: The return on violence would be too low to do that.
Speaker 3: But because it was in the bank, it was very
Speaker 3: easy to do well.
Speaker 2: Trying to go door to door to door and try
Speaker 2: to recover people's hardware, wallets, and hang people by their
Speaker 2: toe and tickle them until they give up their private key,
Speaker 2: the return of violence is just way too low. It's
Speaker 2: just impractical for them ever to try to achieve something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: To cast a vote that the government won't do it
Speaker 1: is very different than to say that they can't do it.
Speaker 1: So my argument is simply anybody that's taken a lot
Speaker 1: of solace in that, I would say, don't if for
Speaker 1: whatever reason your the one that they target and come
Speaker 1: after they will get your bitcoin.
Speaker 3: So there's a couple things about that.
Speaker 2: So Number one they could say, hey, we'll kill you
Speaker 2: on site if you don't turn it in.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: So they did make gold illegal, right, so not only
Speaker 2: do we take your gold, if we catch you with gold,
Speaker 2: it's illegal, So they could certainly do that. I would
Speaker 2: say with that a couple of things, Like number one,
Speaker 2: when the government makes things illegal, they typically become.
Speaker 3: Bigger and more useful.
Speaker 2: So like the war on drugs since the seventies, drugs
Speaker 2: are a bigger problem today now. When the government tells
Speaker 2: you not to do drugs, it doesn't make you want
Speaker 2: to do drugs. But when they tell you don't have
Speaker 2: a right to story your wealth in a way we
Speaker 2: can't steal and confiscate from you, this sort of makes
Speaker 2: you want to.
Speaker 3: Just like every time they talk about imposing.
Speaker 2: New gun laws, what happens with gun sales. So number one,
Speaker 2: you have human psychology and motivation. Number two, with drugs,
Speaker 2: drugs have to be their physical items that have to
Speaker 2: be grown and cultivated and packaged and shipped and smuggled
Speaker 2: and distributed. Whereas bitcoin is completely the digital peer to
Speaker 2: peer and can't be traced.
Speaker 3: Or tracked, So how do they stop that. They can't
Speaker 3: even keep drugs out of a prison. So I think
Speaker 3: it's just impractical.
Speaker 2: I think technolo happens is technology moves faster than the state.
Speaker 2: So you have three D gun schematics, Well they can
Speaker 2: make those illegal. Well now they're on the bitcoin blockchain
Speaker 2: and there's some supersistent for all of humanity. How does
Speaker 2: the government do that? So when they try to, I
Speaker 2: think what happens when the government tries to move on
Speaker 2: technologies that are moving and advancing faster than they are,
Speaker 2: it makes the state look irrelevant and incompetent. But you've
Speaker 2: interviewed a lot of people with bitcoin. My good friend
Speaker 2: Robert Breedlove, I know you've. I had Sailor on a
Speaker 2: couple of times as well, and he calls bitcoin digital energy.
Speaker 2: He has some really good metaphors. I mean, he's an
Speaker 2: amazing mind. I love the part where he told you
Speaker 2: you said.
Speaker 3: But what about all these other cryptocurrency?
Speaker 2: He says, how many chairs do you have? You're just
Speaker 2: sitting in one chair? Right?
Speaker 3: Yes? The meme.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but when you think about it like that as
Speaker 2: digital energy, and then you think about like storing that
Speaker 2: energy for a long period of time, especially in today's
Speaker 2: day and age, or going into this AI age. There
Speaker 2: was this sort of deep Seek moment that was April
Speaker 2: twenty seventh? Was it where all of a sudden Deep
Speaker 2: Seek was dropped into the world and it sort of
Speaker 2: caused Nvidia to crash And it sort of made the
Speaker 2: whole world kind of step back and go, are we
Speaker 2: pricing assets properly? Because couldn't a bunch of wealth leave
Speaker 2: the nasdak can go to China and if they need
Speaker 2: less in Vidia chips, do we have in Vidia price right?
Speaker 2: And it sort of made everybody sort of look at
Speaker 2: everything differently. And I'm curious, through your talks and bitcoin
Speaker 2: with Sailor and others, do you think it eventually reprices
Speaker 2: assets like investment assets as we know them. It's a
Speaker 2: good question on a long enough timeline. I honestly don't know.
Speaker 2: That isn't the way that I think about bitcoin. To me,
Speaker 2: I take a very simple approach, which is that you've
Speaker 2: got inflation. Inflation is the problem of the modern era,
Speaker 2: like the problem the number of things that I think
Speaker 2: emanate from the fact that government's deficits, spend and then
Speaker 2: print to not how to engage the voting public with
Speaker 2: their choices is deeply problematic. So to me, bitcoin solves
Speaker 2: that incredible problem, and it solves it in a moment.
Speaker 3: Where as it's being.
Speaker 1: Effectively repriced by the wild inflation of the dollar, combined
Speaker 1: with the growing awareness and demand for bitcoin, you get
Speaker 1: this incredible run up for people that are able to
Speaker 1: withstand the temporary volatility. So I look at it in
Speaker 1: that perspective. I ultimately want bitcoin to become an incredibly
Speaker 1: boring asset. I want it to be a place where
Speaker 1: I can put my money and I know that the
Speaker 1: amount of output I got from a unit of my
Speaker 1: time in the.
Speaker 3: Past holds that value.
Speaker 1: Because then, and this is a big part of my
Speaker 1: thesis right now, the reason that the average American doesn't
Speaker 1: invest in the stock market, and if they do, they
Speaker 1: certainly don't invest very much, is because they don't understand it.
Speaker 1: It's just complicated enough that they're never going to understand it.
Speaker 1: And so I think a government has a moral obligation
Speaker 1: to give their citizens an opportunity to just save their
Speaker 1: money in a way where it's not going to go
Speaker 1: down in value. Once you do that, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of problems go away.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: People that are fiscally responsible, they're going to save their money.
Speaker 1: It's not going to be eaten by inflation. There's going
Speaker 1: to be a benefit for them to do that. So
Speaker 1: that's the thesis the lens through which I look at bitcoin. Now,
Speaker 1: whether it ends up gobbling up more and more of
Speaker 1: these assets, I don't see how it couldn't. For somebody
Speaker 1: like me, who might otherwise consider rolling the dice on
Speaker 1: a piece of art, I would much rather be in
Speaker 1: certainly my future vision of bitcoin, where it becomes far
Speaker 1: less risky. So people that are trying to build wealth
Speaker 1: right now are going to go for bitcoin, but hopefully
Speaker 1: one day that's like a way more stable play, and
Speaker 1: so that's not where they're focused on. And that way,
Speaker 1: we really begin to have assets that are low risk,
Speaker 1: and we have assets that are higher risk, and the
Speaker 1: people that want to accept the consequences of getting that wrong,
Speaker 1: they can go do it. I think people should be
Speaker 1: able to spend their money however they want. But I
Speaker 1: have not put a lot of thought into like how
Speaker 1: much do I think that this just keeps gobbling up
Speaker 1: the world. Because I didn't buy it because I thought,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is going to go up an
Speaker 1: insane amount of value. I bought it because I thought
Speaker 1: tomorrow would be more digital than today, and that you
Speaker 1: have to have an escape from inflation.
Speaker 2: You have to Yeah, you've interviewed over six hundred high performers. Congratulations.
Speaker 2: That number, by the way, generate over a billion views.
Speaker 2: And you've pulled yourself from scrounging on couch cushions to
Speaker 2: a billion a billion dollar business exiting a billion dollar business.
Speaker 2: You showed on Twitter or on x your top ten
Speaker 2: favorite interviews of all time, and so they weren't ranked
Speaker 2: in any particular order. But I noticed that like five
Speaker 2: of those people were money guys and two of those
Speaker 2: were like future tech guys. So I was going to
Speaker 2: ask you if you had to distill everything you've learned
Speaker 2: into a single mind blowing insight that might be left
Speaker 2: thinking about for a few days, what would that be?
Speaker 1: Nothing matters other than thinking from first principles, that is.
Speaker 2: To formulate your own devastating.
Speaker 3: Yes it.
Speaker 1: First principle is a little deeper than that. First principles
Speaker 1: is the world works on a set of rules. We'll
Speaker 1: call them the laws of physics and everything on that. Yes,
Speaker 1: they are the axioms that we cannot disprove. And once
Speaker 1: you understand that life is a big chain of cause
Speaker 1: and effect that we can't go all the way back
Speaker 1: because we don't under fully understand physics. But man, you
Speaker 1: can really think like an engineer, which is the right way,
Speaker 1: even if you're playing a game of psychology. The human
Speaker 1: mind works in a certain way. It's complex, a lot
Speaker 1: of variables, but it works.
Speaker 2: In a knowable way.
Speaker 1: And so if you focus obsessively on mapping that, well,
Speaker 1: then you can get as close to having a crystal
Speaker 1: ball as you're ever going to get. And it's almost
Speaker 1: the guests that I have really fall into two gigantic camps.
Speaker 2: There are people that are just worried about the.
Speaker 1: Laws of physics in their own mind, Like, here are
Speaker 1: the things that I'm up against, David Goggins. I figured
Speaker 1: out how to master my own mind. Cool, You've got
Speaker 1: the physics of your mind, and given that, you've been
Speaker 1: able to lead an extraordinary life because you understood how
Speaker 1: to deal with your own limitations, your cognitive biases, all
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 3: Then there are.
Speaker 1: People that do an external thing where they master money,
Speaker 1: they master business.
Speaker 3: It's the same game.
Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out, how does this thing actually work?
Speaker 1: How do I get my emotions out of the way,
Speaker 1: and how do I think from first principles? And I
Speaker 1: have a feeling no matter how many people I interview,
Speaker 1: they're going to use different words, but they're all going
Speaker 1: to be people who did that thing either on a
Speaker 1: really granular subject. Take Annie Jacobs, I believe is her name,
Speaker 1: and she's walking you through the first principles of nuclear
Speaker 1: war and what it looks like, and like why we
Speaker 1: have to avoid it and all that stuff again just
Speaker 1: cause and effect. Eric Weinstein is literally walking you through
Speaker 1: the laws of physics. Michael Sailor how bitcoin is financial energy,
Speaker 1: and he's literally using the language of physics. Ray Dalio saying,
Speaker 1: I figured out how this game worked, and so I
Speaker 1: can point you five hundred years backwards to explain it,
Speaker 1: and I can tell you, given these cycles, what it's
Speaker 1: going to look like moving forward. It's like all of
Speaker 1: the really just incredible banger guests are people that I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know where you're trying to end up, and you're
Speaker 1: just thinking from first principles with an understanding that you
Speaker 1: can master a set of skills that allow you to
Speaker 1: do something in your own mind or in the real
Speaker 1: world that works better than the next person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everyone should figure that out for themselves.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really universal, but you have to figure
Speaker 1: out how to get out of your own way, with
Speaker 1: your own cognitive limitations, biases, distorted frame of reference, so
Speaker 1: it will be an end of one experiment, but you're
Speaker 1: seeking the truly universal.
Speaker 3: Got it, all right?
Speaker 2: I think this might be my longest interview ever, So
Speaker 2: I apologies only because I kept taking it was.
Speaker 3: Good, It was really good. It was really good. So
Speaker 3: we'll end it with that. Tom. Obviously, we'll link your
Speaker 3: stuff down below. I'm su everybody already knows where to
Speaker 3: find you, I hope, so at Tom, Bill you wherever
Speaker 3: you go. All right, Thanks, thank you,