WEBVTT - SpaceX Sends Civilians Into Space 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.400 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.280 search Bloomberg clovel News. Joining us right now is Dr 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.479 William Moss. He's professor of epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.959 Bloomberg School of Public Health, Executive director of the International 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.040 Vaccine Access Center, and of course, the Bloomberg School of 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.520 Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.519 LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Moss on the phone from Baltimore, Bill, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.640 good to have you here with Katie and myself help 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.560 us make sense as we try to figure out should 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.720 we be getting booster shots? Yes, thank you very much 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.640 for howiving me again, UM, And I realized this has 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.560 been a confusing issue for folks, UM, and perhaps we 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.800 should think about it. You know, who should get a 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.560 booster and when should they get a booster? UM? What 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.520 we're what we're really looking for, as you were just saying, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.480 we want our vaccines to protect us against severe disease, hospitalization, 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.640 and death. That's our our primary goal, and the way 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.280 we're going to achieve this primarily is by getting more 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:33.800 people vaccinated. Now. When we when and if we start 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.720 seeing more breakthrough infections or I should say higher rates 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:43.960 of breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated individuals UM that results 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.160 in severe disease, hospitalizations, and death, that's going to be 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.120 our trigger for booster doses. And I think a lot 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.600 of the discussion we're gonna here tomorrow at the FDA 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.400 and then that next week with the Advisory Committee on 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.240 Immunization Practices are do we have the day eat to 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:06.080 yet to suggest uh that there's there's increase in breakthrough 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.920 infections resulting in severe disease? And I think where we 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.200 may see this, we may see that there's evidence for 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.640 older adults, perhaps those older than but not yet for 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.680 the general population. Dr Moss. I'm curious to hear your 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.480 opinion on whether the f d A can really feel 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.040 any public pressure, whether they feel pressure from the public 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.680 to approve booster shots, because it feels like there is 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.560 this uh sort of dichotomy emerging where Okay, the people 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.280 who have been vaccinated got vaccine as soon as they 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.040 were able to, they do want to get booster shots, 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:42.760 and then you have you know, the rest of the 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:48.280 United States, the holdouts who haven't yet gotten their full vaccinations. 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.880 I mean, does the f d A would they even 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.640 respond to that? Yes, I think what we can expect 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.000 from the f d A, and again we'll hear about 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.440 it tomorrow, is the FDA is going to tell us 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.880 whether these additional doses UM for people who are fully 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.040 vaccinated our safe and effective. That's what they're going to 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.839 be looking for. And they have the data that we're 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.280 submitted by fiser UM. Some of that has been released 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.440 in the in the FDA briefing that that was released UM. 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.720 And you know those numbers are based on relatively small, 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.880 uh small sample sizes UM. But the FDA is going 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.680 to be looking at that safety and effectiveness of an 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.200 additional dose. What we have to wait for then is 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:43.240 the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices UM that will make 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.960 recommendations to the c d C on who should be, 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:48.920 you know, on whether or not we should actually go 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.320 forward with booster doses and and who should be the 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.040 recipients of those U. UM, they will not be weighing 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.720 in on, you know, how do we deal with the problem, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.720 uh of unvaccinated Americans at this point in the pandemic. 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.000 I guess what I wonder too is do you default 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:09.400 and say, let me just go get a third one, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:11.920 let me just got to be safe than sorry? Or 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.000 are there potential complications by getting a vaccine that you 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.960 don't need? Yes? So, UM, you know what, this is 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.000 an important issue. UM. The CDC estimates that perhaps at 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.279 this point one point eight million Americans have gone ahead 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:35.080 UH and that booster dose. Katie knows people who donive Yes, 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.159 And I can understand. And we're kind of, you know, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:44.159 feeling this tension between having a rigorous regulatory process and 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.240 debate UM, and in the midst of a pandemic and 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.120 and surging case numbers, surging hospitalizations and deaths in the the 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.359 United States, and and people wanting to feel that that 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:00.279 they're best protected. Uh, and so individuals going out and 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.280 getting those booster doses. We still don't know really that 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.480 you know, whether there are any safety concerns around booster doses. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:13.599 I don't expect that we're going to have any surprises there. Um. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.000 Fiser did present to the f d A some of 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.280 their safety data, again relatively small numbers, a couple of 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.440 hundred people. Um, maybe there was some increase in in 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.839 swollen lymph nodes after that after the third dose compared 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.160 to the first two, but in general the side effects 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.200 seem to be the same, but again against small numbers. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.919 Where it also becomes problematic from a public health point 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.200 of view is that it just makes it very hard 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.719 for us to track, uh, the number of people vaccinated 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.600 in the in the United States. If people are going 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.400 and getting a third dose and kind of pretending they 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.120 have never had a dose before, um, it messes up 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:57.760 the numbers. And so Dr Moss, I'm curious to hear 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.400 your thoughts on some pushback that I've or two booster 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.159 shots offering them in the United States. Because you have 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.960 the developed world where you know a lot of people 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.960 who want to be vaccinated have gotten vaccinated, and then 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.920 you have, you know, the emerging markets of the world 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.640 where it's been a really tough rollout, and you know 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.520 a lot of people still remain unvaccinated. So some of 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.359 the pushback I hear is that, you know, offering booster 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:27.880 shots will basically exacerbate global inequality. I'm curious to hear 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.280 your thoughts on that. Right this is it's a very 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.560 important issue. We've heard from the World Health Organization and 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.919 the Director General. They're raising this issue. There was a 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.720 recent report in The Lancet raising this issue as well, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.840 UM about the you know, the the ethics of UH 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.840 booster doses in high income countries when much of the 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:56.560 world remains unvaccinated. There's no doubt there they remain glaring 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:02.800 global inequities and vaccination coverage. UM or more of vaccine 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.040 doses have been administered to people in high and upper 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.920 middle income countries. Less than point five percent have gone 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.200 to people in low income countries. UM And as as 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.560 many folks have said, you know, we're not going to 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.320 be able to control this pandemic in the United States 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.080 until it's controlled globally. The question is, you know, can 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.560 these doses that are now sitting you know, in the 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.520 United States, you know, be diverted or or recanneled to 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:33.200 other countries. There's no doubt that the United States can 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.160 and should do more to address those global inequities. But 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.920 but also, if a vaccinees out at a pharmacy um, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.640 you know, there's no way we're going to get that 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.000 vack reroute that vaccine dose. So this is a very 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.800 important issue, but it's also very complex in in terms 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.880 of the process of how we take vaccines in the 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.040 United States and get them to other countries where perhaps 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.160 they're needed more. Yeah, I feel like this is an 0:07:58.160 --> 0:07:59.760 issue we've been talking about from day one. When we 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.480 need a vaccine would hopefully ultimately be created, how do 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.440 we make sure that it gets out to the world. 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.120 Having said that, Dr Moss, I think one of the 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.960 discussions I keep hearing a lot in the US right 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.520 now is get ready for flu season everyone, because you're 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:14.920 all going to get really sick and you need to 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.840 get a flu shot too. What's your advice to our 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.240 listeners right now who are thinking, I'm going to need 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.400 to get a COVID nineteen booster, I'm going to need 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.560 to get a flu shot. How do we need to 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:31.560 kind of schedule all this playoff for this Yes, well, um, 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.800 you know these vaccines are are are very important in 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.360 our public health response and protecting ourselves individually and and 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:43.640 protecting people around us. Are our our COVID nineteen vaccines 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.320 are actually much better than our influenza vaccines. UM. But 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.520 it's going to be very important with this upcoming respiratory 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.439 season UM that people get vaccinated against you know, be 0:08:55.559 --> 0:09:00.400 vaccinated against COVID nineteen and get their annual flu shot. UM. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.520 What we don't want to have happen and say, I'll say, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.200 you know, I think one of the real tragedies of 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.280 this last wave of cases in the United States is 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.800 that we've allowed our healthcare system, our hospitals are intensive 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.800 care units, to be overwhelmed with COVID nineteen patients, uh, 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.800 to the point where sometimes people with other diseases can't 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.720 get the care they need. But we don't have happened 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.120 this this respiratory season is to see our health care 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.800 system overwhelmed again with both COVID and influenza cases. Right. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.079 We're seeing parts of the country already right that are 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.880 overwhelmed because of COVID absolutely, and I mean Dr Moss, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.360 I'd love to get your thoughts on children and vaccinating children. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.559 Because school is opening back up. New York City public 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.280 schools just had their first day. When will we see 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.440 the bottom end of the range for who can get 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:55.840 vaccinated basically increase? I'm missing metaphors there, But when will 0:09:56.000 --> 0:10:00.720 children younger than twelve be able to get vaccines? Yes, 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.199 this is this is a very common question, and uh, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.360 I wish I had a definitive answer on this, But 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:09.960 what I can tell you is that this will be 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.520 done in phases. The first group of children for whom 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.120 we'll see an authorization or approval our children five years 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.760 to eleven years of age. It will be with the 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.600 FISER vaccine. They're they're slightly ahead of of Maderna and 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.400 having the data being uh you know, collected and and 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.840 presented to the FDA. We expect FISER to be able 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.280 to present these data on that age group, perhaps by 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.840 the end of September or early October. It will then 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.520 take a couple of weeks for FDA to UH to 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.319 review the data, and then we'll need a recommendation from 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.560 the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices should the vaccine be 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.520 deemed safe and effective in that age group. And again 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.600 I don't expect any any surprises there, so I'm hopeful 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.880 that will have an approval or authors ation. Uh, perhaps 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:06.600 late October, early November. Um, you know, depending upon how 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.200 the process goes. But we won't see a vaccine for 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.480 children younger than five years of age right until first 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.679 quarter of On some level, you gotta appreciate the measured 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.120 and careful guidance by regulators on all of this as 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.760 we move forward, and always appreciate the guidance of Dr 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.839 William Moss, Executive Director of the International Vaccine Access Center, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:31.240 Professor in the Departments of Epidemiology, International Health, and Molecular 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.640 Microbiology Enemynology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.119 You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.800 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:47.160 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Remember how we 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.600 keep talking about the push for a fifteen dollar federal 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.760 minimum wage. We do that well. The move may installed 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.280 in Congress, but thanks to our current environment, we may 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.640 already be there. So let's get to it. Here to 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:01.000 explain Bloomberg News Economy reporter Michael s. So he joins 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.840 us on the phone in Atlanta bureau. Mike, good to 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.400 have you here with Katie and myself. So tell us 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.080 what's going on. Yeah, yeah, good to be here. You know, 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.960 what we've seen is just kind of a topsy turvy 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.160 labor market where even though the move to adopt a 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.040 fifteen dollar minimum wage may have stalled in Congress, it 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.640 seems that the market as well as let's just just 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.840 be honest, there's a lot of state and local minimum 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.040 wage laws going into effects. So those two things combined, 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.160 are you know, making it so that a relatively small 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.600 portion of Americans makes less than fifteen hours as we speak. Yeah, 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:39.960 I was amazed that I forgot that the minimum wage 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.240 still though for a lot of Americans is seven dollars 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.920 and twenty five cents an hour. Yeah, yeah, what is 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.560 I forget what the status is at least a decade old. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.839 So I have not kept up at all with the 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.800 way to rave inflation. And there are there are ten states, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.440 ten states that have adopted a fifteen dollar minum wage, 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.480 not immediately, but kind of ramp up to fifteen. So 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.760 they're kind of getting ahead of the curve and So, Mike, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.480 your characterization of the labor market topsy turvy. Uh, it 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.319 definitely feels accurate, just you know, after sitting through the 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.679 NFP release every month. Uh So it feels like we're 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.840 in this interesting scenario where part of the reason the 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.920 you know, wages are rising is because employers can't fill 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.280 their roles. You had a great stat in your article 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.800 that the number of job vacancies exceeded new hires by 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.760 four point three million in July. I'm curious, even with 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.640 the higher wages, why aren't employees necessarily coming back into 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.360 the workforce. Well, that's the million dollar question. You know, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.080 certainly there has been a lot of women have stayed 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.920 out of the workforce for child care issues. You know, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.960 there's the old question about whether the enhanced unemployment benefits 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.079 we're keeping people out of the labor force. Of course 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.840 those are expired now, but there's I gotta tell us 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.920 a lot every employer I talked to insist that yes, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:08.959 they those high unemployment benefits were keeping people out, even 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.480 though even though most economists and a lot of these 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.439 academics will say that there's no evidence of that. So 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.880 that's that is a big, kind of a big question. Yeah, 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.240 I was talking to UM senior EXEXU people who have 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.120 been in the airline industry for a long time over 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.360 the past week. And what's interesting is they're saying people 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:28.800 just don't want to come back to work. They just 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.280 don't want to come back to work. Uh. And this 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.000 includes things like child uh, flight attendants and you name it. 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.080 We're seeing that play out. So what does this mean? Okay, 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.600 if though, because it's a tight labor force, Mike, and 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.920 so that is forcing employers like a Walmart, like a Target, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.960 like a Chipotle Mexican grill to bump up their average 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.920 generally paid a fifteen dollars or more. Amazon what you know, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.080 looking for some of their logistics jobs eighteen dollars an hour, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.280 So we're kind of getting that fifteen dollars in our 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.680 minimum wage. What does it mean in terms of cost 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.680 to employers? What does it mean in terms of versus 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.920 inflation real wages? What does it all mean? Well? Yeah, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.040 that and that's the issue. And the inflation pieces interesting. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.480 So it's not as not as if everyone is doing 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.720 at some of these lower page jobs is just experiencing this. 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.920 That's absolute windfall. Inflation is running a little over five percent, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.320 so to be sure, and over the last now, to 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:35.440 be sure, since the pandemic started, wages the wage inflation 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.600 has has has advanced more so, I'm wage inflation or 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.440 wages are rising at a greater paste than inflation is. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.960 So that's a good thing for the worker. In the 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.960 last year, however, that's actually reversed itself and inflation is 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:54.280 actually eating up a greater percentage of wages. And so 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.800 since the pandemic started, you know, things are generally on 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.200 the upswing, although there's been a blip over the last year, 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.680 just the last year because of just the cost of 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.280 everything rising. All right, So just thirty seconds, So does 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.720 this mean thanks, you know, we don't need the federal 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.640 government to get there that we're going to now see 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.760 the new floor of fifteen dollars that stays with us 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.800 longer term. Just quickly, Well, I know there's probably some 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.640 people would say that I will say activists are are 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.240 having none of that. They're insisting, as somebody told me, 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.680 fifteen dollars is not the you know, the cap that's 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.160 fifteen dollars of the floor, and we intend to go 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.680 higher than that. Yeah, it's a very different economy that 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.680 we're certainly seeing come out of this pandemic. Uh, and 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.240 we're not quite there at the pandemic. Mike Sasso, thank 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.680 you so much. He is economy reporter at Bloomberg News, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.120 joining us on the phone from Atlanta. You do wonder, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.320 to Katie, though, these are you know, higher wages, higher 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.880 labor costs for companies. You know, how much do they 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.480 ultimately pass along to consumers. I guess that's something we'll 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.760 keep an eye on absolutely. I mean, this is how 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.480 inflation gets built into the economy when you actually see 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.800 employers raised wages exactly good point, and then had the 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.760 supply chain problems and yeah, costs go up. You're listening 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.640 to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:10.720 Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well a Bloomberg exclusive. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.840 It's also the Bloomberg Business Week cover story. It's about 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.600 Peter Teal, you know, the Silicon Valley billionaire investor and disruptor. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.240 Turns out he's kind of just like all the other 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.560 rich folks out there, so writes Max Chafkin in his 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.240 new biography of Tell. Let's get more on this Bloomberg 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.240 Business Week Get or Joe Webber, as I just mentioned 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.240 in her Boomberg Interactive Studio along with Bloomberg u S 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.480 Technology Managing Editor Mark Millian. He is on the phone 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.200 in our New York City bureau. Peter Teal, We've talked 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.160 about him a lot in his relationship interesting one with Trump. Yeah, 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.760 and I'm gonna I'm gonna actually say that he's not 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.399 maybe like all the other people you know, And I 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.400 think that's when it comes to Texas, and he's never 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.639 had a biography of him before. And that is the 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.280 first and foremost defeat that our own colleague Max Chafkin 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.879 has accomplished with this book, The Contrarian Next week. Uh, 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.680 it's really fascinating you mentioned the Trump thing. That is 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.600 where the excerpt that is the cover story this week 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.800 begins this, uh meeting in Trump Tower right in the 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.840 transition period after Trump had been elected, where Peter Teal, 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.000 who you may recall was on the stage at the 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.640 Republican National Convention just a couple of weeks before that, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.000 months before that, and and basically he was able to 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:29.040 bring a bunch of tech CEOs to Trump and basically 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:36.440 be this bridge between tech and the recently elected president. Uh, 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.800 in a way that was somewhat unexpected, right, And it 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.160 speaks to the sort of the power that Teal Weed 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:50.040 wields in Silicon Valley. Like obviously he's been real integral 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:54.320 part of this PayPal mafia for for years, first outside 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.520 investor in Facebook, and there's a lot of roads in 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.560 Silicon Valley that leads to Peter Teal. Um. And what's 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.359 interesting was this sort of little marriage that happened between 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:09.399 Trump and Teal and that that proved um not great 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.720 for a lot of people in Trump's circle and and 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.400 it seemed to have worked out really well for Peter Teal, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.720 who we think um more than double misfortune during that 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:20.679 During that time, Mark want to bring you into this 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:25.200 conversation because it's been really wonderful throughout the Trump presidency 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:30.320 and thereafter. Is you know, exploring these relationships that the 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.280 former president had with some likely subjects and some unlikely subjects, 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.080 and Peter Tell seems to fall into that category. Yes, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.360 I would definitely agree with that. And one of the 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.919 spite holding hands at that meeting at Trump Tower, that 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:51.120 is a dark image the bro hand holding love best 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:55.840 they had their um but yeah, I mean Teal is 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:02.880 uh long time technologists from Silicon Valley, foreign born, um Gay. 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.600 I mean, there are a lot of things about his 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.760 background that would suggest that he would not be um 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.119 part of the MAGA contingent um. And yet he is 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:19.119 a contrarian investor above all else. And he's made a 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.640 lot of bad bets over the years, Um, but he's 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.359 made some some fantastic ones. Facebook is certainly in that camp, 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.600 and I think Trump is is in that camp. Yeah, Mark, 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.800 That's what I want to dig into, because I mean, 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.280 like you said, this is what TIL does. I mean, 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.080 he's a venture capital, is a capitalist. This whole thing 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.280 is finding you know, startups to invest in. I mean, 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.560 how much does this Is there a parallel to draw 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.280 between his m O when it comes to you know, investing, 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:52.320 being a venture capitalist and this kind of unlikely relationship 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:56.680 he forged with Donald Trump. I think there's a direct line. 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.760 I think his his entire investment strategy he speaks is 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.480 the reflection of the title of Max's book, which is contrarian. 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.560 I mean he looks at where the popular opinions are 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:10.840 and where the where the winds are blowing, and he 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.120 goes the opposite direction. And oftentimes that doesn't work. Max 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.480 chronicles in the book his hedge fund Clarium Capital, which 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.639 was like very early to seeing the housing crisis, but 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.920 in fact was too early and just went so far 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:30.080 down this contrarian path that it it led to disaster. Um. 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:33.480 And so this strategy is not bull proof, but when 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:35.840 you nail it, I mean, it can really pay off. 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.480 And I think um Trump was was an example of 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.199 of where he saw it early and he went in 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.439 pretty big and and it did pay off in some ways. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.840 Speaking of paying off, the the ultimate uh payoff has 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.600 been the roth eyray and and that is to to 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.680 your joke earlier, just about you know, just like other 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.120 other billionaires. Um. We don't really know if other billionaires 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.600 have have done this as well as Peter Teel has, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:10.359 but it seems to be that um he has exploited 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:12.800 the wrath ira a to perhaps a way that was 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.280 never intended. Um. You know, this was invented as really 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.160 like a way to help middle class Americans retire, and 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.880 um uh he he seems to be able to pack 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:28.320 away some shares uh from PayPal and palinteer uh and 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.280 others perhaps um all tax free and then watch that 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.920 grow and and so Max reporting suggests north of five 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:41.040 billion dollars all tax free, just like Myra I. Some 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:45.160 reporting suggest maybe closer to ten billion UM. And it's 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:48.199 also as as Max reveals in this excerpt in in 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.000 his book, it's also the thing that's made him quite 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:53.280 paranoid that it would not take that much for the 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.080 I R S to maybe change, you know, have these 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:59.040 rules changed take more than the rs. But the I 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.680 R S seems to be keeping a pretty close eye 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.320 to make sure everything UH is abided by and it's 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:08.880 very textbook and and otherwise you know, the risk there 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:10.800 would be that um, you know, you you could have 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.800 a pretty sizable tax tax bill in the billions. And 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.400 and Mark, I mean, it's it's legal, right what he did, 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:20.879 but it's all it's all legal. And actually, you know 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.840 Max's reporting UH indicates that you know, there there was 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.480 an audit and so it has been looked at closely. 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.320 And he's not alone, right like this this is something 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:34.280 and there's an unrelated story today even by Bloomberg News 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.159