Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube
Speaker 1: search Bloomberg clovel News. Joining us right now is Dr
Speaker 1: William Moss. He's professor of epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins
Speaker 1: Bloomberg School of Public Health, Executive director of the International
Speaker 1: Vaccine Access Center, and of course, the Bloomberg School of
Speaker 1: Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Moss on the phone from Baltimore, Bill,
Speaker 1: good to have you here with Katie and myself help
Speaker 1: us make sense as we try to figure out should
Speaker 1: we be getting booster shots? Yes, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for howiving me again, UM, And I realized this has
Speaker 1: been a confusing issue for folks, UM, and perhaps we
Speaker 1: should think about it. You know, who should get a
Speaker 1: booster and when should they get a booster? UM? What
Speaker 1: we're what we're really looking for, as you were just saying,
Speaker 1: we want our vaccines to protect us against severe disease, hospitalization,
Speaker 1: and death. That's our our primary goal, and the way
Speaker 1: we're going to achieve this primarily is by getting more
Speaker 1: people vaccinated. Now. When we when and if we start
Speaker 1: seeing more breakthrough infections or I should say higher rates
Speaker 1: of breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated individuals UM that results
Speaker 1: in severe disease, hospitalizations, and death, that's going to be
Speaker 1: our trigger for booster doses. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of the discussion we're gonna here tomorrow at the FDA
Speaker 1: and then that next week with the Advisory Committee on
Speaker 1: Immunization Practices are do we have the day eat to
Speaker 1: yet to suggest uh that there's there's increase in breakthrough
Speaker 1: infections resulting in severe disease? And I think where we
Speaker 1: may see this, we may see that there's evidence for
Speaker 1: older adults, perhaps those older than but not yet for
Speaker 1: the general population. Dr Moss. I'm curious to hear your
Speaker 1: opinion on whether the f d A can really feel
Speaker 1: any public pressure, whether they feel pressure from the public
Speaker 1: to approve booster shots, because it feels like there is
Speaker 1: this uh sort of dichotomy emerging where Okay, the people
Speaker 1: who have been vaccinated got vaccine as soon as they
Speaker 1: were able to, they do want to get booster shots,
Speaker 1: and then you have you know, the rest of the
Speaker 1: United States, the holdouts who haven't yet gotten their full vaccinations.
Speaker 1: I mean, does the f d A would they even
Speaker 1: respond to that? Yes, I think what we can expect
Speaker 1: from the f d A, and again we'll hear about
Speaker 1: it tomorrow, is the FDA is going to tell us
Speaker 1: whether these additional doses UM for people who are fully
Speaker 1: vaccinated our safe and effective. That's what they're going to
Speaker 1: be looking for. And they have the data that we're
Speaker 1: submitted by fiser UM. Some of that has been released
Speaker 1: in the in the FDA briefing that that was released UM.
Speaker 1: And you know those numbers are based on relatively small,
Speaker 1: uh small sample sizes UM. But the FDA is going
Speaker 1: to be looking at that safety and effectiveness of an
Speaker 1: additional dose. What we have to wait for then is
Speaker 1: the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices UM that will make
Speaker 1: recommendations to the c d C on who should be,
Speaker 1: you know, on whether or not we should actually go
Speaker 1: forward with booster doses and and who should be the
Speaker 1: recipients of those U. UM, they will not be weighing
Speaker 1: in on, you know, how do we deal with the problem,
Speaker 1: uh of unvaccinated Americans at this point in the pandemic.
Speaker 1: I guess what I wonder too is do you default
Speaker 1: and say, let me just go get a third one,
Speaker 1: let me just got to be safe than sorry? Or
Speaker 1: are there potential complications by getting a vaccine that you
Speaker 1: don't need? Yes? So, UM, you know what, this is
Speaker 1: an important issue. UM. The CDC estimates that perhaps at
Speaker 1: this point one point eight million Americans have gone ahead
Speaker 1: UH and that booster dose. Katie knows people who donive Yes,
Speaker 1: And I can understand. And we're kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: feeling this tension between having a rigorous regulatory process and
Speaker 1: debate UM, and in the midst of a pandemic and
Speaker 1: and surging case numbers, surging hospitalizations and deaths in the the
Speaker 1: United States, and and people wanting to feel that that
Speaker 1: they're best protected. Uh, and so individuals going out and
Speaker 1: getting those booster doses. We still don't know really that
Speaker 1: you know, whether there are any safety concerns around booster doses.
Speaker 1: I don't expect that we're going to have any surprises there. Um.
Speaker 1: Fiser did present to the f d A some of
Speaker 1: their safety data, again relatively small numbers, a couple of
Speaker 1: hundred people. Um, maybe there was some increase in in
Speaker 1: swollen lymph nodes after that after the third dose compared
Speaker 1: to the first two, but in general the side effects
Speaker 1: seem to be the same, but again against small numbers.
Speaker 1: Where it also becomes problematic from a public health point
Speaker 1: of view is that it just makes it very hard
Speaker 1: for us to track, uh, the number of people vaccinated
Speaker 1: in the in the United States. If people are going
Speaker 1: and getting a third dose and kind of pretending they
Speaker 1: have never had a dose before, um, it messes up
Speaker 1: the numbers. And so Dr Moss, I'm curious to hear
Speaker 1: your thoughts on some pushback that I've or two booster
Speaker 1: shots offering them in the United States. Because you have
Speaker 1: the developed world where you know a lot of people
Speaker 1: who want to be vaccinated have gotten vaccinated, and then
Speaker 1: you have, you know, the emerging markets of the world
Speaker 1: where it's been a really tough rollout, and you know
Speaker 1: a lot of people still remain unvaccinated. So some of
Speaker 1: the pushback I hear is that, you know, offering booster
Speaker 1: shots will basically exacerbate global inequality. I'm curious to hear
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. Right this is it's a very
Speaker 1: important issue. We've heard from the World Health Organization and
Speaker 1: the Director General. They're raising this issue. There was a
Speaker 1: recent report in The Lancet raising this issue as well,
Speaker 1: UM about the you know, the the ethics of UH
Speaker 1: booster doses in high income countries when much of the
Speaker 1: world remains unvaccinated. There's no doubt there they remain glaring
Speaker 1: global inequities and vaccination coverage. UM or more of vaccine
Speaker 1: doses have been administered to people in high and upper
Speaker 1: middle income countries. Less than point five percent have gone
Speaker 1: to people in low income countries. UM And as as
Speaker 1: many folks have said, you know, we're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to control this pandemic in the United States
Speaker 1: until it's controlled globally. The question is, you know, can
Speaker 1: these doses that are now sitting you know, in the
Speaker 1: United States, you know, be diverted or or recanneled to
Speaker 1: other countries. There's no doubt that the United States can
Speaker 1: and should do more to address those global inequities. But
Speaker 1: but also, if a vaccinees out at a pharmacy um,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no way we're going to get that
Speaker 1: vack reroute that vaccine dose. So this is a very
Speaker 1: important issue, but it's also very complex in in terms
Speaker 1: of the process of how we take vaccines in the
Speaker 1: United States and get them to other countries where perhaps
Speaker 1: they're needed more. Yeah, I feel like this is an
Speaker 1: issue we've been talking about from day one. When we
Speaker 1: need a vaccine would hopefully ultimately be created, how do
Speaker 1: we make sure that it gets out to the world.
Speaker 1: Having said that, Dr Moss, I think one of the
Speaker 1: discussions I keep hearing a lot in the US right
Speaker 1: now is get ready for flu season everyone, because you're
Speaker 1: all going to get really sick and you need to
Speaker 1: get a flu shot too. What's your advice to our
Speaker 1: listeners right now who are thinking, I'm going to need
Speaker 1: to get a COVID nineteen booster, I'm going to need
Speaker 1: to get a flu shot. How do we need to
Speaker 1: kind of schedule all this playoff for this Yes, well, um,
Speaker 1: you know these vaccines are are are very important in
Speaker 1: our public health response and protecting ourselves individually and and
Speaker 1: protecting people around us. Are our our COVID nineteen vaccines
Speaker 1: are actually much better than our influenza vaccines. UM. But
Speaker 1: it's going to be very important with this upcoming respiratory
Speaker 1: season UM that people get vaccinated against you know, be
Speaker 1: vaccinated against COVID nineteen and get their annual flu shot. UM.
Speaker 1: What we don't want to have happen and say, I'll say,
Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the real tragedies of
Speaker 1: this last wave of cases in the United States is
Speaker 1: that we've allowed our healthcare system, our hospitals are intensive
Speaker 1: care units, to be overwhelmed with COVID nineteen patients, uh,
Speaker 1: to the point where sometimes people with other diseases can't
Speaker 1: get the care they need. But we don't have happened
Speaker 1: this this respiratory season is to see our health care
Speaker 1: system overwhelmed again with both COVID and influenza cases. Right.
Speaker 1: We're seeing parts of the country already right that are
Speaker 1: overwhelmed because of COVID absolutely, and I mean Dr Moss,
Speaker 1: I'd love to get your thoughts on children and vaccinating children.
Speaker 1: Because school is opening back up. New York City public
Speaker 1: schools just had their first day. When will we see
Speaker 1: the bottom end of the range for who can get
Speaker 1: vaccinated basically increase? I'm missing metaphors there, But when will
Speaker 1: children younger than twelve be able to get vaccines? Yes,
Speaker 1: this is this is a very common question, and uh,
Speaker 1: I wish I had a definitive answer on this, But
Speaker 1: what I can tell you is that this will be
Speaker 1: done in phases. The first group of children for whom
Speaker 1: we'll see an authorization or approval our children five years
Speaker 1: to eleven years of age. It will be with the
Speaker 1: FISER vaccine. They're they're slightly ahead of of Maderna and
Speaker 1: having the data being uh you know, collected and and
Speaker 1: presented to the FDA. We expect FISER to be able
Speaker 1: to present these data on that age group, perhaps by
Speaker 1: the end of September or early October. It will then
Speaker 1: take a couple of weeks for FDA to UH to
Speaker 1: review the data, and then we'll need a recommendation from
Speaker 1: the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices should the vaccine be
Speaker 1: deemed safe and effective in that age group. And again
Speaker 1: I don't expect any any surprises there, so I'm hopeful
Speaker 1: that will have an approval or authors ation. Uh, perhaps
Speaker 1: late October, early November. Um, you know, depending upon how
Speaker 1: the process goes. But we won't see a vaccine for
Speaker 1: children younger than five years of age right until first
Speaker 1: quarter of On some level, you gotta appreciate the measured
Speaker 1: and careful guidance by regulators on all of this as
Speaker 1: we move forward, and always appreciate the guidance of Dr
Speaker 1: William Moss, Executive Director of the International Vaccine Access Center,
Speaker 1: Professor in the Departments of Epidemiology, International Health, and Molecular
Speaker 1: Microbiology Enemynology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Speaker 1: You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Remember how we
Speaker 1: keep talking about the push for a fifteen dollar federal
Speaker 1: minimum wage. We do that well. The move may installed
Speaker 1: in Congress, but thanks to our current environment, we may
Speaker 1: already be there. So let's get to it. Here to
Speaker 1: explain Bloomberg News Economy reporter Michael s. So he joins
Speaker 1: us on the phone in Atlanta bureau. Mike, good to
Speaker 1: have you here with Katie and myself. So tell us
Speaker 1: what's going on. Yeah, yeah, good to be here. You know,
Speaker 1: what we've seen is just kind of a topsy turvy
Speaker 1: labor market where even though the move to adopt a
Speaker 1: fifteen dollar minimum wage may have stalled in Congress, it
Speaker 1: seems that the market as well as let's just just
Speaker 1: be honest, there's a lot of state and local minimum
Speaker 1: wage laws going into effects. So those two things combined,
Speaker 1: are you know, making it so that a relatively small
Speaker 1: portion of Americans makes less than fifteen hours as we speak. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was amazed that I forgot that the minimum wage
Speaker 1: still though for a lot of Americans is seven dollars
Speaker 1: and twenty five cents an hour. Yeah, yeah, what is
Speaker 1: I forget what the status is at least a decade old.
Speaker 1: So I have not kept up at all with the
Speaker 1: way to rave inflation. And there are there are ten states,
Speaker 1: ten states that have adopted a fifteen dollar minum wage,
Speaker 1: not immediately, but kind of ramp up to fifteen. So
Speaker 1: they're kind of getting ahead of the curve and So, Mike,
Speaker 1: your characterization of the labor market topsy turvy. Uh, it
Speaker 1: definitely feels accurate, just you know, after sitting through the
Speaker 1: NFP release every month. Uh So it feels like we're
Speaker 1: in this interesting scenario where part of the reason the
Speaker 1: you know, wages are rising is because employers can't fill
Speaker 1: their roles. You had a great stat in your article
Speaker 1: that the number of job vacancies exceeded new hires by
Speaker 1: four point three million in July. I'm curious, even with
Speaker 1: the higher wages, why aren't employees necessarily coming back into
Speaker 1: the workforce. Well, that's the million dollar question. You know,
Speaker 1: certainly there has been a lot of women have stayed
Speaker 1: out of the workforce for child care issues. You know,
Speaker 1: there's the old question about whether the enhanced unemployment benefits
Speaker 1: we're keeping people out of the labor force. Of course
Speaker 1: those are expired now, but there's I gotta tell us
Speaker 1: a lot every employer I talked to insist that yes,
Speaker 1: they those high unemployment benefits were keeping people out, even
Speaker 1: though even though most economists and a lot of these
Speaker 1: academics will say that there's no evidence of that. So
Speaker 1: that's that is a big, kind of a big question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was talking to UM senior EXEXU people who have
Speaker 1: been in the airline industry for a long time over
Speaker 1: the past week. And what's interesting is they're saying people
Speaker 1: just don't want to come back to work. They just
Speaker 1: don't want to come back to work. Uh. And this
Speaker 1: includes things like child uh, flight attendants and you name it.
Speaker 1: We're seeing that play out. So what does this mean? Okay,
Speaker 1: if though, because it's a tight labor force, Mike, and
Speaker 1: so that is forcing employers like a Walmart, like a Target,
Speaker 1: like a Chipotle Mexican grill to bump up their average
Speaker 1: generally paid a fifteen dollars or more. Amazon what you know,
Speaker 1: looking for some of their logistics jobs eighteen dollars an hour,
Speaker 1: So we're kind of getting that fifteen dollars in our
Speaker 1: minimum wage. What does it mean in terms of cost
Speaker 1: to employers? What does it mean in terms of versus
Speaker 1: inflation real wages? What does it all mean? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that and that's the issue. And the inflation pieces interesting.
Speaker 1: So it's not as not as if everyone is doing
Speaker 1: at some of these lower page jobs is just experiencing this.
Speaker 1: That's absolute windfall. Inflation is running a little over five percent,
Speaker 1: so to be sure, and over the last now, to
Speaker 1: be sure, since the pandemic started, wages the wage inflation
Speaker 1: has has has advanced more so, I'm wage inflation or
Speaker 1: wages are rising at a greater paste than inflation is.
Speaker 1: So that's a good thing for the worker. In the
Speaker 1: last year, however, that's actually reversed itself and inflation is
Speaker 1: actually eating up a greater percentage of wages. And so
Speaker 1: since the pandemic started, you know, things are generally on
Speaker 1: the upswing, although there's been a blip over the last year,
Speaker 1: just the last year because of just the cost of
Speaker 1: everything rising. All right, So just thirty seconds, So does
Speaker 1: this mean thanks, you know, we don't need the federal
Speaker 1: government to get there that we're going to now see
Speaker 1: the new floor of fifteen dollars that stays with us
Speaker 1: longer term. Just quickly, Well, I know there's probably some
Speaker 1: people would say that I will say activists are are
Speaker 1: having none of that. They're insisting, as somebody told me,
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars is not the you know, the cap that's
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars of the floor, and we intend to go
Speaker 1: higher than that. Yeah, it's a very different economy that
Speaker 1: we're certainly seeing come out of this pandemic. Uh, and
Speaker 1: we're not quite there at the pandemic. Mike Sasso, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. He is economy reporter at Bloomberg News,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from Atlanta. You do wonder,
Speaker 1: to Katie, though, these are you know, higher wages, higher
Speaker 1: labor costs for companies. You know, how much do they
Speaker 1: ultimately pass along to consumers. I guess that's something we'll
Speaker 1: keep an eye on absolutely. I mean, this is how
Speaker 1: inflation gets built into the economy when you actually see
Speaker 1: employers raised wages exactly good point, and then had the
Speaker 1: supply chain problems and yeah, costs go up. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well a Bloomberg exclusive.
Speaker 1: It's also the Bloomberg Business Week cover story. It's about
Speaker 1: Peter Teal, you know, the Silicon Valley billionaire investor and disruptor.
Speaker 1: Turns out he's kind of just like all the other
Speaker 1: rich folks out there, so writes Max Chafkin in his
Speaker 1: new biography of Tell. Let's get more on this Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week Get or Joe Webber, as I just mentioned
Speaker 1: in her Boomberg Interactive Studio along with Bloomberg u S
Speaker 1: Technology Managing Editor Mark Millian. He is on the phone
Speaker 1: in our New York City bureau. Peter Teal, We've talked
Speaker 1: about him a lot in his relationship interesting one with Trump. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna actually say that he's not
Speaker 1: maybe like all the other people you know, And I
Speaker 1: think that's when it comes to Texas, and he's never
Speaker 1: had a biography of him before. And that is the
Speaker 1: first and foremost defeat that our own colleague Max Chafkin
Speaker 1: has accomplished with this book, The Contrarian Next week. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's really fascinating you mentioned the Trump thing. That is
Speaker 1: where the excerpt that is the cover story this week
Speaker 1: begins this, uh meeting in Trump Tower right in the
Speaker 1: transition period after Trump had been elected, where Peter Teal,
Speaker 1: who you may recall was on the stage at the
Speaker 1: Republican National Convention just a couple of weeks before that,
Speaker 1: months before that, and and basically he was able to
Speaker 1: bring a bunch of tech CEOs to Trump and basically
Speaker 1: be this bridge between tech and the recently elected president. Uh,
Speaker 1: in a way that was somewhat unexpected, right, And it
Speaker 1: speaks to the sort of the power that Teal Weed
Speaker 1: wields in Silicon Valley. Like obviously he's been real integral
Speaker 1: part of this PayPal mafia for for years, first outside
Speaker 1: investor in Facebook, and there's a lot of roads in
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley that leads to Peter Teal. Um. And what's
Speaker 1: interesting was this sort of little marriage that happened between
Speaker 1: Trump and Teal and that that proved um not great
Speaker 1: for a lot of people in Trump's circle and and
Speaker 1: it seemed to have worked out really well for Peter Teal,
Speaker 1: who we think um more than double misfortune during that
Speaker 1: During that time, Mark want to bring you into this
Speaker 1: conversation because it's been really wonderful throughout the Trump presidency
Speaker 1: and thereafter. Is you know, exploring these relationships that the
Speaker 1: former president had with some likely subjects and some unlikely subjects,
Speaker 1: and Peter Tell seems to fall into that category. Yes,
Speaker 1: I would definitely agree with that. And one of the
Speaker 1: spite holding hands at that meeting at Trump Tower, that
Speaker 1: is a dark image the bro hand holding love best
Speaker 1: they had their um but yeah, I mean Teal is
Speaker 1: uh long time technologists from Silicon Valley, foreign born, um Gay.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of things about his
Speaker 1: background that would suggest that he would not be um
Speaker 1: part of the MAGA contingent um. And yet he is
Speaker 1: a contrarian investor above all else. And he's made a
Speaker 1: lot of bad bets over the years, Um, but he's
Speaker 1: made some some fantastic ones. Facebook is certainly in that camp,
Speaker 1: and I think Trump is is in that camp. Yeah, Mark,
Speaker 1: That's what I want to dig into, because I mean,
Speaker 1: like you said, this is what TIL does. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's a venture capital, is a capitalist. This whole thing
Speaker 1: is finding you know, startups to invest in. I mean,
Speaker 1: how much does this Is there a parallel to draw
Speaker 1: between his m O when it comes to you know, investing,
Speaker 1: being a venture capitalist and this kind of unlikely relationship
Speaker 1: he forged with Donald Trump. I think there's a direct line.
Speaker 1: I think his his entire investment strategy he speaks is
Speaker 1: the reflection of the title of Max's book, which is contrarian.
Speaker 1: I mean he looks at where the popular opinions are
Speaker 1: and where the where the winds are blowing, and he
Speaker 1: goes the opposite direction. And oftentimes that doesn't work. Max
Speaker 1: chronicles in the book his hedge fund Clarium Capital, which
Speaker 1: was like very early to seeing the housing crisis, but
Speaker 1: in fact was too early and just went so far
Speaker 1: down this contrarian path that it it led to disaster. Um.
Speaker 1: And so this strategy is not bull proof, but when
Speaker 1: you nail it, I mean, it can really pay off.
Speaker 1: And I think um Trump was was an example of
Speaker 1: of where he saw it early and he went in
Speaker 1: pretty big and and it did pay off in some ways.
Speaker 1: Speaking of paying off, the the ultimate uh payoff has
Speaker 1: been the roth eyray and and that is to to
Speaker 1: your joke earlier, just about you know, just like other
Speaker 1: other billionaires. Um. We don't really know if other billionaires
Speaker 1: have have done this as well as Peter Teel has,
Speaker 1: but it seems to be that um he has exploited
Speaker 1: the wrath ira a to perhaps a way that was
Speaker 1: never intended. Um. You know, this was invented as really
Speaker 1: like a way to help middle class Americans retire, and
Speaker 1: um uh he he seems to be able to pack
Speaker 1: away some shares uh from PayPal and palinteer uh and
Speaker 1: others perhaps um all tax free and then watch that
Speaker 1: grow and and so Max reporting suggests north of five
Speaker 1: billion dollars all tax free, just like Myra I. Some
Speaker 1: reporting suggest maybe closer to ten billion UM. And it's
Speaker 1: also as as Max reveals in this excerpt in in
Speaker 1: his book, it's also the thing that's made him quite
Speaker 1: paranoid that it would not take that much for the
Speaker 1: I R S to maybe change, you know, have these
Speaker 1: rules changed take more than the rs. But the I
Speaker 1: R S seems to be keeping a pretty close eye
Speaker 1: to make sure everything UH is abided by and it's
Speaker 1: very textbook and and otherwise you know, the risk there
Speaker 1: would be that um, you know, you you could have
Speaker 1: a pretty sizable tax tax bill in the billions. And
Speaker 1: and Mark, I mean, it's it's legal, right what he did,
Speaker 1: but it's all it's all legal. And actually, you know
Speaker 1: Max's reporting UH indicates that you know, there there was
Speaker 1: an audit and so it has been looked at closely.
Speaker 1: And he's not alone, right like this this is something
Speaker 1: and there's an unrelated story today even by Bloomberg News
Speaker 1: that you know, there is a small small group of
Speaker 1: people who seem to have been able to to work
Speaker 1: these i RA s to too great great results. Ben
Speaker 1: Steve Whreman story. We're gonna talk to him a little
Speaker 1: bit later on. I mean, Matt, as you go through
Speaker 1: you know, Max's book and this excerpt which is the
Speaker 1: cover story. Um again, like you said that that picture
Speaker 1: of the two of them holding hands. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think for a long time early on, we were all
Speaker 1: just trying to make sense of this relationship. But in
Speaker 1: the end, Uh, Peter Teel benefited big time. Yes, I
Speaker 1: certainly did. I mean not to the extent maybe he
Speaker 1: envisioned in as wildest imaginations of sort of remaking government
Speaker 1: in his image. Um. You know, Max, this excerpt goes
Speaker 1: into some detail about how he offered you know, a
Speaker 1: long list of of picks for various administrative positions that
Speaker 1: the campaign deemed too extreme. Um. So which is something
Speaker 1: really says something for sure. But you know the other
Speaker 1: thing that I think is important, and this is sort
Speaker 1: of the where Max's excerpt culminates, and and I think
Speaker 1: it's Uh, one of the reasons that that this this
Speaker 1: biography um by Max Jeffkin have I mentioned out next
Speaker 1: week is so important is that what we're really going
Speaker 1: to be watching here is Peter Teel's transition from from
Speaker 1: being a Silicone Silicon Valley power broker to something that
Speaker 1: maybe is more about the GOP and politics going forward,
Speaker 1: and that will play out in mid terms. First and foremost,
Speaker 1: really good point. This story cover on the new issue
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week, which is available Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 1: of course, and that's Max Chafkin's book, The Contrarian. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking to Max next week, Joel and more. Thanks.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. All right, Katie
Speaker 1: Gray felt she's in for Tim Stinovic. Uh, kind of
Speaker 1: heard a bunch of people go into space another group. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just the Steady, not Tim's Tim.
Speaker 1: It's not Ed Ludlow either, although I think both of
Speaker 1: them would love to. I think I would when you know,
Speaker 1: to get into a rocket ship. No way, I just
Speaker 1: told you I was referred of votes. You won't even
Speaker 1: go to the dentist. I'm just gonna put it out there,
Speaker 1: of course. Of course, all right, we'll talk about that later. Uh.
Speaker 1: It did happen though, at a pm Local time yesterday
Speaker 1: from Kennedy Space Center in Florida, SpaceX sending four civilians
Speaker 1: on a three day orbital excursion. Who was there was
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News West Coast correspondent ed Low. Ledlow, he joins
Speaker 1: us out from Cape Canaveral in Florida. So good to
Speaker 1: have you here. I would go up. I know you
Speaker 1: would go up. Tell us about what it's been like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think to be honest, it's been tense because of
Speaker 1: the nature of what we're talking about. These are four civilians.
Speaker 1: They're not professional astronauts. And even though space X is
Speaker 1: a fantastic trek record they've done so many missions now
Speaker 1: varying professional antionals to and from the Insational space Station,
Speaker 1: this mission is so ambitious. They go They are currently
Speaker 1: orbite in the Earth for three hundred sixty miles altitudes,
Speaker 1: you know, much further than the Interstral Space Station, much
Speaker 1: further than the Hubble Telescope. And you know, the question
Speaker 1: going into it this was why would they do that?
Speaker 1: Why would they not just play it safe? But the
Speaker 1: latest reports we have from space X is the cruise
Speaker 1: doing well. They've even slept and had meals and things
Speaker 1: like that. So so so far it's a successful mission,
Speaker 1: and so I'm really curious to hear what this means
Speaker 1: for commercial space travel and whether that's becoming closer to
Speaker 1: becoming a reality. You know, when will Ed Ludlow be
Speaker 1: able to get into orbits? Yeah, Sace, they think about
Speaker 1: this side of the business being supplied and strange right,
Speaker 1: that there's really great demand there and it outweighs their
Speaker 1: ability or the number of times that they can launch
Speaker 1: in a calendar year. They're talking about sort of potentially
Speaker 1: four missions in two which is still quite a lot,
Speaker 1: you know, going from zero to four. I think the
Speaker 1: big takeaway from the investors I speak to, you know,
Speaker 1: people that work at NASA aerospace engineers is this mission
Speaker 1: is so much more of a big deal than what
Speaker 1: we saw from Bezos and Brandon. You know, what they
Speaker 1: did doesn't even register. Bess went to sixty five miles
Speaker 1: above the Earth for a few minutes. These guys are
Speaker 1: orbiting the Earth for three days as amateurs, as civilians
Speaker 1: with minimal training, encountering higher radiation space debris, all aboard
Speaker 1: a fully autonomous system, and if they're successful, the consensus
Speaker 1: this really is a big step forward for human space
Speaker 1: flight in general, and as you said, been more preparation.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, these four spent, according to reporting, about nine
Speaker 1: months in preparation. They had to learn how to intervene
Speaker 1: during the flight if necessary. I mean, this isn't just
Speaker 1: take a seat. You're up for a few seconds basically,
Speaker 1: and then you're back down on Earth. Correct, So it's
Speaker 1: a fully autonomous spaceship. However, you know, things happen, and
Speaker 1: this is what's so amazing. Their entire experiences documented by Netflix. Right,
Speaker 1: so if the listeners gone to Netflix, you can watch
Speaker 1: the first four parts of the series, which includes their training.
Speaker 1: You know, things you'd expect like centrifuges and extreme G
Speaker 1: force exposure. And Jared Isaakman, who is actually paying for
Speaker 1: this entire thing, and the commander of the mission, one
Speaker 1: of the four inside the capsule, his that his day
Speaker 1: job is running a fintech company. His passion is being
Speaker 1: a pilot, and he took all of them on fight
Speaker 1: age to experience that extreme G pause. They did do
Speaker 1: this properly, and they are ready in the event that
Speaker 1: they have to act, and so I know that they
Speaker 1: went through all that prep. It still blows my mind
Speaker 1: that there's no professional astronauts on this trip. But Ed
Speaker 1: so I mean, this is different, like we've just been
Speaker 1: talking about. Different from Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic, which
Speaker 1: sort of took off and then came back down pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: This flight is actually going into orbit. And I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, at least I've been joking about the billionaire
Speaker 1: space race for months now, but I'm curious whether we
Speaker 1: should expect a response from Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson. Well,
Speaker 1: we just got it. We did it within the last hour,
Speaker 1: and all he said was congratulations. As we reached Branson
Speaker 1: and Elon Musk replied saying thank you to both of them.
Speaker 1: You know, like this has been the criticism, right that
Speaker 1: this is a billionaires sport and that it's only open billionaires,
Speaker 1: and Jared Isaingman himself, he's a billionaire. He's paying the
Speaker 1: two hundred reported to a million for these guys to
Speaker 1: be up there. But he acknowledged it head on, and
Speaker 1: he basically said, I am bringing exposure to this industry.
Speaker 1: I'm showing that it is possible and that more investment
Speaker 1: is needed, and that it is possible and attainable for
Speaker 1: a civilian to eventually go up. And he kind of
Speaker 1: went on with that and that's why they are at
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty miles and not playing it safe,
Speaker 1: because he wanted to show that you could actually make
Speaker 1: progress and develop the science, developed the technology in that process. Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting to uh and you point out too in
Speaker 1: your story that's on the Bloomberg and Bloomberg dot com
Speaker 1: about how the missions raising about two hundred million in
Speaker 1: charity for childhood cancer research. So there's another component to
Speaker 1: this story. The thing is, you know, add the debate,
Speaker 1: there are people saying, why are we spending why our
Speaker 1: companies spending so much money on this? You know, what
Speaker 1: do we get out of it? But I'm a daughter
Speaker 1: of I say this all the time. I know my
Speaker 1: producers like here she goes again, But a daughter of
Speaker 1: an engineer electrical aerospace engineer who worked on their early
Speaker 1: space missions. A lot of what we learned from those
Speaker 1: missions lead to some pretty significant scientific and technol logical developments.
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos says, right, he wants to learn more about
Speaker 1: space to help Earth. All of this could ultimately lead
Speaker 1: to some really important discoveries. That is the logic here
Speaker 1: very quickly on St. Jude and cancer. I mean, this
Speaker 1: mission is so high profile the world's media there, and
Speaker 1: they're going to raise two million dollars. Hailey Arsenal, one
Speaker 1: of the people on the capsule in space, is a
Speaker 1: cancer survivor and now works at St. Jude. So that's
Speaker 1: the link there. One thing I learned in my reporting
Speaker 1: is SpaceX has agreed to give NASA all of the
Speaker 1: data generated from this mission for free at no cost.
Speaker 1: And it's really detailed data, things like radiation. As I said,
Speaker 1: space debry, the tests they're doing on board about the
Speaker 1: human body um and and after they land, if they
Speaker 1: land successfully back splashed down on the Florida coast, then
Speaker 1: they're space extually even going to hand over the capsule
Speaker 1: and let NASA inspect it. So this is all worthwhile
Speaker 1: as part of a bigger, broader initiative to move forward
Speaker 1: with human space flight. Just gonna make it a little
Speaker 1: bit more affordable, exactly. Put the semi charge card. Well,
Speaker 1: you've got a supply crunch, you know, it's everywhere, supply
Speaker 1: crunch everywhere. Ed Ludlow Safe Travel. You gotta get back
Speaker 1: to Katie so you guys can anchor tomorrow Bloomberg cricktake together.
Speaker 1: Ed Ludlow, West Coast correspondent Bloomberg News on the phone
Speaker 1: actually at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Still you don't
Speaker 1: want to go? No, I'm not there yet, but happy
Speaker 1: to watch other people do it. All right. Well, my
Speaker 1: guess is we're going to continue to see the billionaires
Speaker 1: and others going up into space. I'm roc journal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you let me drive? No, no, no, dr honey,
Speaker 1: please the vel I want to drive. Just drive by
Speaker 1: the questions drying. This is the drive to the globe.
Speaker 1: Nive me. Thanks well, try US radio. Just about ten
Speaker 1: and a half minutes left in today's trading session. We are,
Speaker 1: as Charlie mentioned, well off our loads of the session,
Speaker 1: slight gain in fact on the NAZAC as we speak.
Speaker 1: Let's get to it, the drive to the close. Our
Speaker 1: guest today is Chris Dyer, director of Global Equity, over
Speaker 1: at Eaton Vance with us on the phone in London. Chris,
Speaker 1: nice to have you here with Katie and myself. You
Speaker 1: look at the market, you look at the trade today,
Speaker 1: September not a great month, although when you really look
Speaker 1: at the percentages, at least for the US trade, we're
Speaker 1: just down by maybe a percentage point or so, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to the large cap names, how do
Speaker 1: you see the market environment and and feel free to
Speaker 1: expand it in terms of the global environment. Sure, and
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I think you know, what we've
Speaker 1: seen in the market over the last couple of weeks
Speaker 1: is really emblematic of the broader challenge with the equity market.
Speaker 1: I think the equity market is becoming increasingly difficult to
Speaker 1: navigate from pure top down perspective, as it had been
Speaker 1: over the last several years. If you think back um
Speaker 1: a few years ago, it was really growth and momentum
Speaker 1: was driving the market, and then earlier late two thousand
Speaker 1: twenty and then early the reopening trade really shifted rotation
Speaker 1: into cyclicals and value stocks, and that's played out now,
Speaker 1: and so I think the market is really trying to
Speaker 1: find a direction and there's a lot of tug of
Speaker 1: war going on between factors that you drive the market
Speaker 1: potentially higher, but also some challenges and concerns that are
Speaker 1: facing the market. And so I think that the bottom
Speaker 1: line from our perspective is that you really need to
Speaker 1: focus on stock selection. It needs to be some good
Speaker 1: bottom up stock specific stories to drive returns, which is
Speaker 1: a great market environment for active managers. Well, let's talk
Speaker 1: about that, Chris. I mean when it comes to individual stocks, Uh,
Speaker 1: what are you keeping an eye on a mix of
Speaker 1: different companies? And again, um, you know, I highlight some
Speaker 1: European names because Europe's sent out of focus for US
Speaker 1: invest years for many years. Um you know, and we
Speaker 1: are firm believers, um that you know, the outperformance going
Speaker 1: forward in the coming years should be driven by Europe.
Speaker 1: It's time for a geographical rotation. And so a few
Speaker 1: of the names that you know I would highlight should
Speaker 1: be relatively familiar. Atlantis that's the company that it's an
Speaker 1: auto manufacturer that was created for the merger of Fiat
Speaker 1: Chrysler and Pigeau. Um they came together earlier this year,
Speaker 1: and there's just a tremendous amount of synergies that are
Speaker 1: going to be delivered by the CEO, Carlos Davars, who
Speaker 1: we have a lot of respect for and he's a
Speaker 1: grab a great long term track, traffic track record, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a company that trades on the
Speaker 1: mid single digit price to earnings multiple and so there's
Speaker 1: a real value aspect of this company. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a stock specific story, real improvement story to come through.
Speaker 1: And then on the other side of the equation, a
Speaker 1: company like Nova Nordisk, which is a Danish pharmaceuticals company.
Speaker 1: They are the global leader in what they do, which
Speaker 1: is uh the They basically have leading diabetes drugs, which
Speaker 1: is unfortunately been a growing market across the globe. But
Speaker 1: now it's interesting and you know, the next leg of
Speaker 1: growth for them in years to come is the release
Speaker 1: of a new obesity drug, which is called we Govie.
Speaker 1: And if you just think about the market opportunity for
Speaker 1: an obesity drug, you know, estimates are that in two
Speaker 1: thousand twenty five across the globe there could be one
Speaker 1: billion obese people. Hey hey, so let me just ask you, Chris,
Speaker 1: both of those names. If I look at the a
Speaker 1: d R s, I'm thinking of our audience that might
Speaker 1: be listening here in the US, it looks like both
Speaker 1: of those ad r s have been on a tear
Speaker 1: this year. Stilantis is up almost fort Novo Nordisk is
Speaker 1: up almost forty seven percent. Still opportunity though, you think
Speaker 1: for upside momentum, that's right, And and in each of
Speaker 1: those cases there is something that we think will be
Speaker 1: a catalyst for further share price moves in the years
Speaker 1: to come. You know, we are long term investors and UM,
Speaker 1: these are companies that we believe, you know, will continue
Speaker 1: to do well in years to come. They're very different, however,
Speaker 1: and that sort of goes back to what I said earlier.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be one top down factor that's driving
Speaker 1: the market. So the Lantis is very much in value stock. Uh.
Speaker 1: Nova Nordis is a growth pharmaceutical company. UM. It trades
Speaker 1: on the much higher price earnings multiple, but they have
Speaker 1: a new drug that we believe will catalyze growth for
Speaker 1: them in years to come, given the results that they're
Speaker 1: having in the efficacy of the drug. Just to jump in, though,
Speaker 1: you did say not one top down factor impacting these names.
Speaker 1: Having said that, we've had one top down, bottom down
Speaker 1: or bottom up factor, and that's been Covid, How does
Speaker 1: that factor into your thinking. I understand the approach of
Speaker 1: bottoms up analysis, but Covid is still out there. So
Speaker 1: does that play into any of your thinking about some
Speaker 1: of these names. I think that there will for many companies,
Speaker 1: there will be disruption in the short term. UM. If
Speaker 1: you think of a pharmaceutical company, not so much UM
Speaker 1: from that perspective of but within the auto space, we
Speaker 1: typically have avoided investing in O E M. S UM.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you look at the the environment
Speaker 1: and the challenges that are facing the auto sector in
Speaker 1: terms of shortage of semiconductor stocks, really impacting the ability
Speaker 1: to companies to meet demand. Yeah, that is a short
Speaker 1: term disruption and UM part of that is related to
Speaker 1: covid um because of the availability of of workers, particularly
Speaker 1: in UM semiconductor plants in Malaysia. So UM, there there
Speaker 1: will be continue to be disruption in the short term.
Speaker 1: But you know, again we believe the investors should really
Speaker 1: focus on companies with good long term stories that are
Speaker 1: not going to be too dependent on this factor investing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Chris, it was interesting to hear you run through
Speaker 1: your picks and like you noted, I mean, you have
Speaker 1: some growth names in there, you have some value names
Speaker 1: and uh, you know you just said that, you know
Speaker 1: when it comes to factors, not really relying on that,
Speaker 1: but what is the common denominator if there is one
Speaker 1: between some of those individual picks and just got about
Speaker 1: forty seconds. Sure, Uh, sustainable business models, Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: what we look for in the Calvit international equity strategy
Speaker 1: in which we're managing. Uh, look for companies that we
Speaker 1: have a good feel for what they're gonna look like
Speaker 1: in decades to come, and have a good understanding of
Speaker 1: what earnings and growth opportunities are there for them. That's
Speaker 1: some sound advice. UM, I like that, sustainable business models. Hey, Chris,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, really appreciate it. Chris Dyer, he's
Speaker 1: director of Global Equity, over to eat in vance, joining
Speaker 1: us on the phone from London. Uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: bottoms up approach. We hear that from a lot of
Speaker 1: folks that you know, if you look at particular names,
Speaker 1: if you understand their business, understand maybe their growth trajectory,
Speaker 1: that's how you can make an investment decision. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: there's probably a lot of active managers to Chris's point,
Speaker 1: they're listening to that and saying, bring it on, let's go.
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