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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Robert Kenny Junior claimed, who's going to be running this groundbreaking,

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Speaker 4: once in a lifetime, once in a generation, independent campaign

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Speaker 4: to challenge both parties. So for RFK Junior now to

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Speaker 4: just abandon all the critiques that he was seriously making

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Speaker 4: of Trump, now he just become a cog in the

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Speaker 4: very duopoly and he claimed that he was running to dislodge.

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Speaker 1: You can't say this is an easy decision that mister

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Speaker 1: Kennedy made and you can't say it was just an opportunist.

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Speaker 1: Mister Kennedy went against some of this key advisor in

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Speaker 1: this campaign over this issue. He has a real chance

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Speaker 1: to get into it the Trump administration and bring a

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Speaker 1: lot of these these policies and a lot of these

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Speaker 1: principles that he that is volunteers, the supportive wants. The

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Speaker 1: reality of it is is if you don't have a

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Speaker 1: seat at the table at the ends, you might as well.

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Speaker 3: Stay at home.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to counterpoints. We have a great conversation lined up

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Speaker 5: for today. We are joined by journalist Michael Tracy and

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Speaker 5: Jeff Hutt, who was a national field director for the

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Speaker 5: Robert F. Kennedy Junior campaign. First, welcome to both of you.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 6: Great to be with you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you too, It's a real pleasure.

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Speaker 7: I actually have a logistics question to start out with. So, Jeff,

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Speaker 7: you're working for the RFK Junior campaign. Is that campaign?

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Speaker 7: So he's off the ballot in the swing states, or

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Speaker 7: he's trying to get off the ballot in the swing states.

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Speaker 7: But now Democrats would love it if he would just

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Speaker 7: stay on despite trying to kick.

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Speaker 6: Him off like a year earlier.

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Speaker 7: But he's still campaigning and telling people, or he's still

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Speaker 7: telling people to vote for him in the non swing states.

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Speaker 7: So or are you still on the campaign? Is there

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Speaker 7: still a campaign happening? What's going on?

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Speaker 3: Okay? So to be clear, I was the former national

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Speaker 3: field director.

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Speaker 1: I left in July of this year, late late June,

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Speaker 1: after the Libertarian convention.

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Speaker 3: So the campaign has shut down.

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Speaker 1: It's there is still a volunteer effort going on in

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Speaker 1: the background, but in terms of sort of a paid

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Speaker 1: political effort to knocked doors and get out, no, there

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Speaker 1: is not.

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Speaker 3: They've shut that down.

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Speaker 7: Why'd you leave after the Libertarian convention? And what happened

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Speaker 7: at the Libertarian convention.

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Speaker 1: Well, we had it was a real missed opportunity on

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Speaker 1: behalf of everybody. We had been talking to the Libertarians

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Speaker 1: for several months leading up to that. Actually, some members

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Speaker 1: of our staff had actually been, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: make inroads into Libertarian Party.

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Speaker 3: My pitch to the Libertarian Party had always been that.

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Speaker 6: Robert F.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy is a once in a lifetime candidate. We should

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Speaker 1: knock down the door with him and all come through.

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot of interest at the Libertarian convention. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: at that time we had individuals in our campaign who

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Speaker 1: were not that excited about being on the Libertarian ticket.

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Speaker 1: I think some of those things have changed after the

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Speaker 1: Libertarian convention and we didn't get on their ballot. I

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Speaker 1: realized at that time that we were not going to

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Speaker 1: be on the debate stage, and I left the campaign

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Speaker 1: to pursue some personal things, but I also knew that

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Speaker 1: it was going to be easier for me to try

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Speaker 1: to use my influence outside of the campaign. And since

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Speaker 1: that time, yes.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, I'm sorry, oh no, finished answer.

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Speaker 1: No, And since that time, I've been early on, I've

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Speaker 1: been a proponent of mister Kennedy working with President Trump,

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Speaker 1: and since leaving the campaign I've been talking to people

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes and tried to make this happen.

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Speaker 6: Great.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's start right there actually with you, Michael, because

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Speaker 5: what Jeff just mentioned was the once in a generation

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Speaker 5: possibility that genuinely people really did see in Bobby Kennedy Junior.

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Speaker 5: But you have since called RFK Junior's kind of flip

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Speaker 5: flop on Donald Trump is probably the best way to

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Speaker 5: put it. Given previous tweets, I think we have one

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Speaker 5: of those we can put up on the screen, tweets

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Speaker 5: and statements. Under no circumstance would I ever join up

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Speaker 5: on the Trump campaign. That's a tweet from May tenth,

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. He said, just a quality speculation. There

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Speaker 5: are no circumstances will I joined Donald Trump? On an

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Speaker 5: electoral ticket, our positions on certain fundamental issues, our approaches

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Speaker 5: to government, and our philosophies of leadership could not be

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Speaker 5: further apart. Now he has joined the Trump campaign to

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Speaker 5: promote Donald Trump to campaign on behalf of Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: and Tracy. You've since referred to this as a quote farce.

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Speaker 5: So walk us through your position on why this turn

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Speaker 5: in sentiments from Bobby Kennedy Junior is a farce.

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Speaker 4: Well, I can also quote the founder of the Alliance

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Speaker 4: Party in South Carolina, which actually just did remove Robert F.

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Speaker 4: Kennedy Jr. From its ballot spite Robert F. Kennedy Junior

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Speaker 4: having previously accepted the presidential nomination for that minor party

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Speaker 4: in South Carolina. Now, as we know, seemingly on false pretenses,

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Speaker 4: which is that Abra F. Kennedy Junior claimed he was

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Speaker 4: going to be running this groundbreaking, once in a lifetime,

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Speaker 4: once in a generation, independent campaign to challenge both parties.

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Speaker 4: He would go around bragging that both Donald Trump and

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Speaker 4: previously Joe Biden, when he was a nominee or the

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Speaker 4: presumptive nominee, were both afraid of him and both regarded

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Speaker 4: him as a spoiler.

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Speaker 6: I mean the polling was always a little bit mixed.

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Speaker 4: There were some indications that perhaps he did more disadvantage

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Speaker 4: the Democrat, and other polling suggested he perhaps more disadvantaged

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Speaker 4: the Republican. It wasn't entirely straightforward, but the entire core

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Speaker 4: premise of the Robert F. Kennedy Junior campaign starting in

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Speaker 4: starting last October, when he at least ostensibly declared his

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Speaker 4: quote unquoue independence and that he was going to have

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Speaker 4: this earth shattering independent campaign that was going to make

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Speaker 4: the biggest impact on the electorate since ross Paro in

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety two, and some polling did indicate that he

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Speaker 4: was garnering more voter support than any third party candidate

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Speaker 4: since ross Paro in nineteen ninety two. The intent, he

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Speaker 4: claimed was to challenge the two party system, and the

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Speaker 4: founder of the Alliance Party in South Carolina, Jim Rex,

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Speaker 4: told me yesterday that it wouldn't be too strong to

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Speaker 4: say that many of the supporters of that party in

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Speaker 4: South Carolina feel like they've been swindled because RFK Junior,

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Speaker 4: now in retrospect, has proven that he was not intending

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Speaker 4: to move forward and fulfill that pledge. And when you

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Speaker 4: accept the nomination for president of one of these small parties.

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Speaker 4: You're effectively forging a contract with them of sorts, and

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Speaker 4: he's abrogated that those various contracts, because remember, Robert F.

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Speaker 4: Kennedy Junior had this multi fold strategy for how he

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Speaker 4: was going to get on the ballot in fifty states

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Speaker 4: plus the District of Columbia, which is in some cases,

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Speaker 4: he was going to already pre existing minor parties in

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Speaker 4: the various states and petitioning them to nominate him for

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Speaker 4: president so then he could be afforded their ballot access.

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Speaker 4: So I also spoke to the head of a minor

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Speaker 4: party in Michigan, head of the National of the Natural

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Speaker 4: Law Party, that is, who similarly says, now he feels used,

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Speaker 4: and he feels like Robert F. Kennedy Junior pulled a

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Speaker 4: fast one on him by claiming that he was going

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Speaker 4: to actually pose a bona fide challenge to the two

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Speaker 4: party system, which yes, included the Republican Party and Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: RFK Junior loves to bang on about how the DNC

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Speaker 4: undermined him, and I don't necessarily dispute that there was

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Speaker 4: an extensive effort to fund litigation by the DNC and

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Speaker 4: DNC aligned groups to challenge his BALA status in the

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Speaker 4: varied States. But that's nothing new for a third party candidacy.

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Speaker 4: Maybe the vigor of.

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Speaker 6: It with RFK somewhat increased, but no, go.

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Speaker 4: Talk to Ralph Nader about all the hurdles that he

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Speaker 4: encountered to get on the ballots and say two thousand

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Speaker 4: and four or two thousand and eight. So for RFK

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Speaker 4: Junior now to just abandon all the critiques that he

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Speaker 4: was seriingly making of Trump, including accusing Trump of being

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Speaker 4: a stooge of the military industrial complex in hak to

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Speaker 4: corporate power arming Ukraine and bragging about it and being

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Speaker 4: unrepentant about that sinking relations with Russia. I mean, rf

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Speaker 4: K Junior loves to also claim that one of the

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Speaker 4: recents he now endorsing Donald Trump is because of the

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Speaker 4: Ukraine War. You don't have to go very far to

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Speaker 4: look up what r f K Junior was saying.

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Speaker 6: This is as of May.

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Speaker 4: RFK Junior said, quote, President Trump ragged about armoring Ukraine

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Speaker 4: more than Obama did. He also walked away unilaterally from

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Speaker 4: the Intermediate Range Nuclear Missile Treaty with Russia, destabilizing our

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Speaker 4: relationship he also exacerbated tensions between Ukraine Russia that ultimately

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Speaker 4: caused the war. So that's RFK Junior at least purporting

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Speaker 4: to in part blame Donald Trump for causing the war.

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Speaker 6: What happened? What happened in interim?

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Speaker 7: So, Jeff, Jeff, what did happen? As somebody who followed

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Speaker 7: this from the beginning, you know, RFK Junior starts running

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Speaker 7: as a Democrat. In the middle, he's taking on the duopoly,

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Speaker 7: extremely critical of Trump. By the end he's part of

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Speaker 7: the duopoly. So what did happen?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think so Kennedy came into the

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Speaker 1: campaign with already a broad support base, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of that broad support base had started around the medical

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Speaker 1: freedom movement, the corporate the fighting corporate capture. So this

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Speaker 1: movement had already people had kind of as soon as

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Speaker 1: he jumped on the campaign trail, people had.

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Speaker 3: Jumped into back him.

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Speaker 1: At that time, there were a lot of Republicans, a

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Speaker 1: lot of Libertarians, a lot of Bernie folks, a lot

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Speaker 1: of Green Party folks, and they were all willing to

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Speaker 1: run in the Democratic primary and when the Democratic primary

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Speaker 1: and then go on to the presidential knowing that they

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Speaker 1: themselves weren't a Democrat, but knowing that they were behind

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Speaker 1: a cause that was greater, we couldn't the campaign, you know,

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Speaker 1: the problems of the primary.

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Speaker 3: So mister Kennedy decided that he was going to run.

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Speaker 1: An independent run, and he did an independent run.

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Speaker 3: We set up fifty state structure.

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Speaker 1: We tried to get on the ballot and all those

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Speaker 1: fifty states, and I believe at the end we will

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Speaker 1: maybe New York and a couple other states are going

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Speaker 1: to prove a little difficult.

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Speaker 3: But what he still did was what he still did

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Speaker 3: was just incredible.

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Speaker 1: We got to a time where we started looking at

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Speaker 1: third parties to augment the ballot access.

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Speaker 3: And this was our plan.

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Speaker 1: And all of these conversations that mister Tracya's talking about happened.

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Speaker 3: Early on in the campaign. First of the year.

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Speaker 1: The Alliance Party in South Carolina, which I was part of, happened,

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Speaker 1: I want to say, in May or April. We were

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Speaker 1: really trying to get on the ballot at that time.

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Speaker 1: When that window closed for mister Kennedy was definitely when

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Speaker 1: he didn't get on the first debate stage, when and

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden had the disastrous debate, and then when Harris

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Speaker 1: came on as sort of the coupdetas and replaced him.

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Speaker 1: So the question is what mister Kennedy has a bunch

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Speaker 1: of supporters who most dedicated supporters in the world that

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. I've done campaigns a lot, so in

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Speaker 1: terms of I understand the philosophical idea about what said

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Speaker 1: and what's done, But what's mister Kennedy supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: He has a group of individuals who are single or

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Speaker 1: at least monolithic in terms of what they want to accomplish.

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Speaker 1: He has himself right now a path to be able

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Speaker 1: to bring those ideas and that those agendas that his

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Speaker 1: community wants, and he's able to leverage them into the

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump campaign.

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Speaker 5: So for me, Jacky, let me ask you about that actually,

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Speaker 5: because it's not as though RFK Junior has just said

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Speaker 5: what you just said, like, Hey, this is for the

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Speaker 5: greater good. I have a pathway now to promote these

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Speaker 5: ideas that are near and dear to my heart.

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Speaker 6: He's gone on too.

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Speaker 5: We can put this element up on the screen. He

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Speaker 5: wrote almost an essay about what make America Great Again

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Speaker 5: really means. He has been fawning about Donald Trump. He

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Speaker 5: was on Talker Carlson Show recently, and that is a

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Speaker 5: stark reversal from previous comments that he made about Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: So it's not just that he's saying this is for

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Speaker 5: the greater good and I'm, you know, sort of doing that.

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Speaker 5: Is that defense?

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Speaker 2: Boy?

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Speaker 5: I mean, is it really defensible going from we have

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Speaker 5: fundamentally incompatible issues to this guy is actually great and

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Speaker 5: a generational hero.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, when you endorse somebody and you bring

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Speaker 1: somebody on and there's a possibility that you're going to

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Speaker 1: become able to work in somebody's White House, you want

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Speaker 1: to see that person in the White House.

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Speaker 3: And I think what you heard in a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of the early speech that he said is there's definitely

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Speaker 1: places where they disagree. They don't disagree on anything, and

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Speaker 1: if you want to know, there's gonna have to ask

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Speaker 1: mister Kennedy himself. But there's areas disagreement. But he's he's

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Speaker 1: all on board because he realizes that the only window,

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Speaker 1: the only pathway for him at this time and to

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Speaker 1: represent the ideas and what his volunteers want is for

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Speaker 1: him to help mister the President Trump out and win

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Speaker 1: the White House. In terms of I understand philosophically that

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Speaker 1: there's maybe this idea about what you're supposed to do

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Speaker 1: and what you're not supposed to do in politics. But

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Speaker 1: the reality of it is is if you don't have

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Speaker 1: a seat at the table at the end, you might

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Speaker 1: as well stay home.

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Speaker 7: So, Michael, what about Robert F.

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Speaker 4: Kennedy Junior, in other words, has become a Republican functionary

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Speaker 4: by putting out these embarrassing little poetic platitudes about what

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Speaker 4: he claims the true meaning of MAGA is. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's incredibible to me that anybody could read that little

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Speaker 4: essay of his and actually be impressed by it. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I've never seen a more ridiculous collection of cliches, especially

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Speaker 4: when you contrast it with what Robert F. Kennedy Junior

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Speaker 4: was saying as of a couple of weeks ago about Trump,

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Speaker 4: which is that not only was Trump's first term a

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Speaker 4: dramatic failure, including on the central issue that supposedly galvanized

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Speaker 4: RFK Junior's initial supporters around skepticism of vaccines and COVID policy.

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Speaker 4: RFK Junior was going around declaring that Trump invented lockdowns

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Speaker 4: and was unrepentant about it, and also that he was

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Speaker 4: the one who was behind the production of the mass

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Speaker 4: vaccine program operation warp speed. That's not my singular issue,

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Speaker 4: but if it's yours, then that's a pretty that's pretty

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Speaker 4: difficult to reconcile. And so Robert Robert Kenny Junior screwed

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Speaker 4: over so third party candidates.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, what do you think about that?

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Speaker 4: Third parties that he claimed running to enhance their viability,

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Speaker 4: And nobody seems to want to necessarily probe what caused

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Speaker 4: that shift other than oh, now he has a seat

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Speaker 4: at the table. Well, that's just him saying his own

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Speaker 4: self advancement and self empowerment always took premium over what

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Speaker 4: he was purporting to stand for for the past ten months,

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Speaker 4: which is that he was going to forge this groundbreaking

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Speaker 4: new independent movement that turned out to be false.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, Michael, let him.

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Speaker 1: You appreciate it now, it's not you know, the pathway

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Speaker 1: that mister Tracy puts forward is that at this point,

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Speaker 1: like Kennedy just goes away into obscurity and all this

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Speaker 1: effort that was put forth. No, you can't say this

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Speaker 1: was an easy You can't say this is an easy

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Speaker 1: decision that mister Kennedy made and you can't say it

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Speaker 1: was just an opportunist. I mean, he really went up

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Speaker 1: against his family. He went against family members. I mean,

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Speaker 1: mister Kennedy went against some of his key advisor in

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Speaker 1: this campaign over this issue. And I think the best

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Speaker 1: people to decide if this is a right move or

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Speaker 1: not is his volunteers and his supporters. And Pauline has

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Speaker 1: showed that over about sixty percent of his supporters are

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Speaker 1: going to stick with what if he would have dropped out,

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Speaker 1: would have gone over to Trump. And I'm thinking from

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Speaker 1: what I've seen through the different social media, through the

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Speaker 1: different interactions I have, that there's even going to be

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Speaker 1: more than that. So the people who really care about

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Speaker 1: this decision, Kennedy supporters, they're going to turn out and

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Speaker 1: vote for Trump and they're okay with this. So once again,

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Speaker 1: I think this philosophical decision that the discussion that we're

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Speaker 1: having about what he should or shouldn't do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think he's going out on the limb, going against

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Speaker 1: his family a lot of times, going against the party.

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Speaker 1: He's not going to get invited to cocktail parties anymore.

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Speaker 1: None of his friends are either no Christmas dinners and

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Speaker 1: things like that. And he's really taking this what is

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Speaker 1: I think a brave I know, politicians, this is a

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Speaker 1: brave and difficult thing he's doing.

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Speaker 3: It's not that easy to support Trump.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of his support for Trump

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Speaker 1: really has to do with the fact that he believes

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Speaker 1: in his supporters. He has a very close relationship with him,

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Speaker 1: and he wants to see their ideas and they're what

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Speaker 1: they want push forward in a Trump administration. Otherwise, all

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Speaker 1: of this effort that volunteers and folks have put on

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Speaker 1: for you know, a couple of years now just goes

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Speaker 1: in the waist span of a wastepan of history.

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Speaker 5: Two. Michael, I mean, there are two ways to look

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Speaker 5: at Donald Trump. On the one hand, he's the guy

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Speaker 5: who said he was going to drain the swamp and

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Speaker 5: then put the CEO of Exonomobile at the head of

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Speaker 5: the State Department and brought in Steve Mnusian and Cohne

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Speaker 5: and all of those guys. On the other hand, there

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Speaker 5: are some areas where he actually does threaten the swamp.

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Speaker 5: But I know that you know, the way you see

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump is basically he's bringing the swamp back. To

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Speaker 5: Ryan's point, he's part of the duopoly. Essentially, if you

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Speaker 5: look at how Jared Kushner used his time in the

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Speaker 5: White House, there's significant argument for that, no question about it.

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Speaker 5: He does have a lot of billionaires backing him, no

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Speaker 5: question about that either. So why is it that this

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Speaker 5: RFK Junior argument that Donald Trump actually you know, longtime

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Speaker 5: history of skepticism of vaccines going.

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Speaker 6: Back literally years.

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Speaker 5: Why is it that there isn't a significant chance for

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Speaker 5: Bobby Kennedy Junior to advance these genuinely anti establishment causes

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Speaker 5: through the Trump administration. Why is he essentially just rolling

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Speaker 5: over for the duopoly and becoming a part of the

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Speaker 5: system that he decried.

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Speaker 4: Well, I can't get inside his brain, nor would I

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Speaker 4: want to. I might get brain worms. But I mean,

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Speaker 4: all you have to do is go back and check

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Speaker 4: what RFK Junior himself said about Trump to verify this

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Speaker 4: critique that you're saying is fairly commonplace about Trump.

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Speaker 6: RFK Junior pilloried.

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Speaker 4: Trump for filling his administration with corporate lobbyists, including appointing

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Speaker 4: as his defense secretary the chief lobbyist for raytheon and

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Speaker 4: so on and so forth. That was part of the

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Speaker 4: whole argument that RFK Junior at least claimed he was

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Speaker 4: making in service of his challenge against the two party system.

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Speaker 4: Your other guest hasn't addressed a single one of these

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Speaker 4: inconsistencies or about faces. They're just kind of a gets

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Speaker 4: glossed over, and people can extol RFK Junior's supposed bravery because,

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Speaker 4: as the head of the Alliance Party in South Carolina

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Speaker 4: explained to me, there is a bit of a divide

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Speaker 4: among the volunteers and supporters, at least as far as

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Speaker 4: he's been able to perceive it.

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Speaker 6: On the one hand, you have people who have like.

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Speaker 4: A cultish devotion to RFK Junior, who will follow whatever

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Speaker 4: he does and don't care about any inconsistencies or the

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Speaker 4: fact that he had winked another segment of support his

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Speaker 4: supporters for another for a year or so by claiming

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Speaker 4: he was running this fake independent campaign. And on the

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Speaker 4: other hand, you have people who actually foolishly believed RFK

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Speaker 4: Junior's own rhetoric and thought that this was going to

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Speaker 4: be one of the most formidable independent candidacies since Ross Perot.

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Speaker 6: So they got screwed over.

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Speaker 4: They were obviously mistaken in their belief in the sincerity

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Speaker 4: of his rhetoric, because now he just become a cog

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Speaker 4: in the very duopoly that he claimed that he was

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Speaker 4: running to dislodge. So I don't know what RFK Junior

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Speaker 4: thinks in his own mind that he can accomplish. I

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Speaker 4: just can look at his own rhetoric and statements, and

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Speaker 4: there's no real way to discern any kind of consistency

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Speaker 4: in those statements other than self advancement.

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Speaker 6: And yes, he does.

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Speaker 4: Seem tethered to at least some principles, like you know,

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Speaker 4: food security and removing toxins from food. Okay, I mean

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Speaker 4: I don't disagree with that on principle. I don't think

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Speaker 4: really many people do. But in terms of other flagship

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Speaker 4: issues that he claimed that he was campaigning on, like

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Speaker 4: opposing the military and the industrial complex and so forth,

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Speaker 4: in fact, he's now granting some degree of credence or

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Speaker 4: validity to Donald Trump as an avatar for carrying forth

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Speaker 4: those issues on the basis of virtually nothing other than

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Speaker 4: that he met with Trump in I think it was

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Speaker 4: Minnesota and then Florida, and they had a cheery conversation

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Speaker 4: and they decided that no, they liked each other, or

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Speaker 4: they could have a nice gab fest. I mean, where's

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Speaker 4: the substantive departure on any of this, it doesn't really

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Speaker 4: make much sense. But then again, our chedunior only has

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Speaker 4: a natural stature because people have cultish devotion to the

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Speaker 4: idea of the Kennedy dynasty, and this bogus mythology that

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Speaker 4: he peddles around his deceased uncle and father as though

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Speaker 4: somehow it became credential to become president that your father

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Speaker 4: and uncle were killed.

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Speaker 6: I never really understood that.

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Speaker 4: And also now he's actually disempowering and misdirecting whatever energy

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Speaker 4: actually did exist within the electric to challenge the national

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Speaker 4: security state, the military industrial complex, the so called deep state,

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Speaker 4: by claiming that Trump is a vehicle for doing this,

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Speaker 4: when there's no indication at all that Trump actually wants

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Speaker 4: to do oversight or actually erode the power in any

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Speaker 4: way of the national security state. He just wants it

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Speaker 4: more in hock to himself as far as anybody can ascertain.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's not just that this didn't accomplish anything.

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Speaker 4: I mean, obviously I did accomplish what turned out to

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Speaker 4: be the ultimate objective on our of f case part,

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Speaker 4: which is to bring disaffected, independence or hazily ideological voters

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Speaker 4: into the Republican fold. So if you're Timothy Mellon who

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Speaker 4: dumped twenty five million dollars into RFK Junior's campaign while

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Speaker 4: simultaneously dumping I think fifty million or more into the

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Speaker 4: Trump campaign, then your cynical strategic calculus worked out swimmingly

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Speaker 4: because now you were able to use your apparent tactic

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Speaker 4: of using RFK Junior as a proxy Republican for the

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Speaker 4: past year and a half out to.

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Speaker 6: Be the ultimate objective.

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Speaker 4: I think the other guest is a Republican himself, Jeff,

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Speaker 4: that you're on some Republican council. So if your ultimate

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Speaker 4: objective is to elect a Republican and re elect on

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Speaker 4: Holald Trup, I could see why you'd be celebrating this.

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Speaker 6: Let's get it works out for your partisan advantage.

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Speaker 7: Let me get Jeff to respond either to that or

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Speaker 7: to something else that you raised earlier, which was this

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Speaker 7: contradiction between the single issue for many of RFK Junior

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Speaker 7: voters of quote unquote medical freedom contrasting conflicting with Trump's

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Speaker 7: record of operation or speed, you know, the production of

440
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 7: the vaccine, and you know, being the guy who maybe

441
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 7: he was more skeptical than Fauci about some of the lockdowns,

442
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 7: but he was the president during these lockdowns. So how

443
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 7: how does a Kennedy supporter and how does Kennedy himself

444
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 7: square that circle?

445
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's pretty easy. You know,

446
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: if you look at the two parties and you look

447
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: at across the states, what states went on the you know,

448
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: major lockdown and what states didn't, I think you'll see

449
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: a divide between Democrats and Republicans. And now you have

450
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: a vice president candidate that really played, you know, real

451
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: strong on the war on COVID in terms of mandates

452
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: and you know, is actually pro mandates and pro shutdown

453
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: and things like that. So for me, I think it's

454
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: a pretty simple kind of movement over. Nobody really acted

455
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: well during Trump, none of our elected leaders. I have

456
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: local officials who are my good friends, and they didn't

457
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: elect They didn't act well either. But the idea is that,

458
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, Trump seems to have come across, he seems

459
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: to have understood where he went wrong. And there is

460
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: this belief that once you put Kennedy into the Trump administration,

461
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: maybe not a not a you know, a seat or

462
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: something like this, that you will have this influence and

463
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: Kennedy can have influence in the Trump administration. And you've

464
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: already seen, I think on the telephone call that mister

465
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: Kennedy's son put out, you always see there's a there's

466
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: already a sense of natural affection with Donald Trump.

467
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 6: Uh.

468
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: I'd like to answer the question. No, I was really happy.

469
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: I thought there was no there was no sort of

470
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: talk in the campaign early on about Republicans. And I think,

471
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: if you will, there was some instances where our campaign staff,

472
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: especially our national our upper level campaign staff, that the

473
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: idea of us being Republican was just repugnant to him.

474
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: And a lot of the a lot of the campaign

475
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: has riled against it. And I like to say the

476
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: idea that mister Kennedy is an opportunist.

477
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: You know, the twilight of your life.

478
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: What you decide to do is wreck your relationship with

479
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: your family, run your social structure, you know, your social sittings,

480
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: put your marriage in jeopardy with your wife because you

481
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 1: want to run for office, and then your doors to

482
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: that office, indoors to making that change are closed on you,

483
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: not of your own doing, mostly, and then what choice

484
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: of a politician are you left for your for your

485
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: movement or what your folks want to do.

486
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 3: What's your choice.

487
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: Your choice is to find the best path forward to

488
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: make it, to make those reality.

489
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 3: And you know, I mean this has happened.

490
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: It's not like the first time this has happened in

491
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: political history. I mean, you look back at the populist

492
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: movements of the late eighteen hundreds and this thing sort

493
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: of happened where you had candidates and you had supporters

494
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: of one party who trashed another party who ended up

495
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: coming together in these coalition governments.

496
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: And as much as it is, this is a coalition government.

497
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: So I kind of I reject the idea that one

498
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: Kennedy ever wanted to go as a Republican. I mean,

499
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: you could see it was just he was strained when

500
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: he had to come out and say it too, that

501
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: there were people within his campaign that wanted him. I mean,

502
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: I was, I was big on I personally was big on.

503
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: The Libertarian Party. And I'm trying to get in the

504
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: middle here.

505
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 6: And other way.

506
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: They go, yeah, I'll make it.

507
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 6: Other way.

508
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it takes it takes a village. I was,

509
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, I was, I was big. We were we

510
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a lot of people who came

511
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: into this with a lot of experience. But the fact

512
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: of the matter is that the doors for mister Kennedy closed.

513
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: He had, uh, mister Trump offered him opportunity. Mister Kennedy

514
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: also talked to the Democrats, and he has a real

515
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: chance to get into a Trump administration and.

516
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: Bring a lot of these a lot.

517
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: Of these policies and a lot of these principles that

518
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: he that is, volunteers as supporters wants.

519
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 3: So it's not goo ahead, yes, ma'am.

520
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 5: Well, I was gonna say, Michael respond to that. So

521
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 5: if we take this argument that you know, this is

522
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 5: a broken two party system, all of us probably agree

523
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 5: with that. If we take that argument and say there's

524
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 5: an opportunity to make one of the parties slightly better,

525
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 5: is there a moral argument for doing what RFK Junior

526
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 5: is doing?

527
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 6: A moral argument, I'm not sure.

528
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 4: I could just evaluate what RFA Junior has actually done,

529
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 4: which is he's squandered what he was previously claiming insistently

530
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: was the most formidable third party or independent run in decades.

531
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: Now he's allowed that to all be subsumed into the

532
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 4: Republican Party, one of the two party duopoly parties that

533
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 4: he claimed that he was running to dislodge. Again, if

534
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 4: you're a Republican like our other guest here, I could

535
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: see why you'd be happy about this outcome because perhaps

536
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 4: you were always inclined. And he said that he was

537
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 4: in favor of some collaboration with Trump and RFK Junior

538
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 4: from the beginning. So I mean, if the rubber hit

539
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 4: the road, or you said you said something to that

540
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 4: effect so you can explain it to us, then.

541
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 6: I mean, would you have voted for RFK Jr.

542
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 4: Against Trump, say, if you were living in a swing

543
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: state or you that committed to him.

544
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 6: I mean, if you're saying that.

545
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: Door close, okay, okay, very good, then so uh if

546
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 4: you say the door was going to close or the

547
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 4: door had closed on RFK Junior, how did the door

548
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 4: close exactly?

549
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 6: You claim? Because because he was excluded from the debates.

550
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: RFK Junior was previously accusing Trump of colluding against him.

551
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 6: To exclude him from the debates.

552
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 4: He filed an FEC complaint against Trump, Biden, and CNN

553
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 4: saying they all had worked in concert to illegally exclude

554
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: him of the debates. Now he's sick of fantaly cozying

555
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 4: up to Trump and for trying to pretend that ever happened,

556
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 4: and a lot of the cult and many of the

557
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 4: cultish supporters are willing to join in his effort to

558
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 4: memory hole what happened, you know, a month or two ago,

559
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: because now they're just becoming partisan cheerleader Republicans. And if

560
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 4: that's your mo o gout, you know, have at it.

561
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 4: But you know, if you actually, you know, we're had

562
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: the misfortune of believing this guy's own rhetoric, then I

563
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 4: guess the fault is your own. And yeah, opportunism. This

564
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: guy has been an opportunist for decades. He hadn't sought

565
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 4: office prior to this run. I think I when he

566
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 4: first announced his campaign in April of last year, I

567
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 4: went and just dug a bit through the archives. I

568
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: don't think anybody has ever endorsed Hillary Clinton more times

569
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 4: in total than RFK Junior, probably including Bill Clinton. He

570
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 4: you know, would speak at every Democratic convention. He was

571
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 4: a hardcore russiagator during.

572
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 6: Trump's first term.

573
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 4: He has this messianic worldview that he claims derive from

574
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: the Kennedy legacy about interventionism abroad. You can go find

575
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 4: opez that he wrote during Trump's term denouncing him for.

576
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 6: Sidling up to autocrats like Putin or Kim Jong un.

577
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 4: And now he's done this totally one eighty and he

578
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 4: hardly even is pressed to explain it because I'm sorry.

579
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 6: I know we're on alternative media right now, but.

580
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: Much of alternative media has just brown nosed RFK Junior

581
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: because they're so irrationally enthused by this phony mythology around

582
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: his dopey, overrated family. Where RFK Junior in his speech

583
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 4: and announcing me he was going to endorse Trump's and

584
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party under my father and uncle was the

585
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 4: party of peace and free speech and transparency.

586
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 6: Are you kidding me? JFK was a hardcore militarist.

587
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: He actually ran to the interventionist right of Richard Nixon

588
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty. He tried to do regime change in Cuba.

589
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 6: He was obsessed, along.

590
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: With his brother, who is his hatchetman as Attorney General,

591
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: with assassination campaigns abroad a coach K. RFK Junior has

592
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 4: tried to RFK Junior has incessantly invoked the legacy of

593
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 4: this family to claim that he's carrying.

594
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 6: Forth this anti establishment, anti.

595
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: War mantle, and everybody just gobs it all up because

596
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 4: they don't look at him with any degree of scrutiny,

597
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 4: because they're also impressed that he happens to be the

598
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 4: progenity of this supposedly martyred family dynasty. I mean, it's

599
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 4: actually insulting to one's intelligence if you actually know a

600
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: single thing about what the Kennedy's actually did empower. Another

601
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 4: irony is that the people who were enamored of camelot,

602
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 4: you know, the Kennedy sort of estate, and like this

603
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 4: mythology around them, they used to beat their standard fair

604
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 4: liberals and an RFK Junior's tactic, which obviously made some inroads,

605
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 4: was to claim, actually he's going to marshal this camelot

606
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 4: legacy to challenge the so called establishment.

607
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 6: The Kennedy's embodied the establishment for decades, and you know, JFK.

608
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 4: You know another thing that really bothered me in particular

609
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: is that, Look, if you've read about the Vietnam War,

610
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 4: which I have maybe others haven't, you know that JFK

611
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 4: actually introduced combat troops to Vietnam for the first time.

612
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 4: He authorized the CIA to take on a combat role

613
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 4: in Vietnam. He expanded the powers of the national securities

614
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 4: that he did not diminish them, including goes on this

615
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: whole in pedals this nonsense. This is the topic. The

616
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 4: topic is the talking is the fund about the topic

617
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 4: is the fundamental fallaciousness and incoherence of RFK Junior's campaign,

618
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 4: as evidenced by his misuse and phony invocation of his

619
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: family legacy, which people use to shower him with praise

620
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 4: to this day and now are following him into the

621
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 4: fold of the Republican Party response, fake presentation.

622
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 3: So so.

623
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: If if RFK Junion, if rf K Junior was going

624
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: to drop out, and he was going to give a

625
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: simple endorsement, say like a Pete Buddha Judge endorsement of

626
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: Biden in twenty twenty, I'd kind of understand where some

627
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: of this was coming. It would be a it'd be

628
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: a meaningless endorsement, and because it would have zero impact

629
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: on the election. But Kennedy is bringing to the Republic,

630
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: to the Trump administration, which is a Republican administration. He's

631
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: bringing a constituency and he's going to deliver the White

632
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: House for Trump. And if you look at the numbers

633
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: across the across the Swing States, his numbers of supporters

634
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: in the Swing States show that clearly that he's going

635
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: to be able to make more Trump more competitive than

636
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 1: the swing states. And also the interesting thing about polling

637
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: says across the nation. I mean, if if you know,

638
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: if Trump and President Trump and mister Kennedy were really

639
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: serious about going after this, I mean they should. Mister Kennedy,

640
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: I believe, should come off the ballot in Oregon, should

641
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: come off the ballot in Colorados, to come off the

642
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: ballot in New Mexico, and they should full court press

643
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: this thing. And yes, I do think we talk about

644
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: is he selling out a message?

645
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: Is he selling out of people? No, he is.

646
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: He is going to be the deciding factor in bringing

647
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: Trump uh, bringing Trump the election. And I don't know

648
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: if you've ever worked in politics on sort of.

649
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 3: A campaign level. I'm not a pundit.

650
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm more of just a political geek. So my job

651
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: is just to get my candidate where they need to go.

652
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: But if you've ever worked on it, there is no

653
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: more power that an individual has than if you're the

654
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: one who delivers the office for the person running for

655
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: who's running for the you know, running for the office

656
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: in the first place. So he, mister Kennedy and mister

657
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: Kennedy supporters. Just by what they do and how they

658
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: turn out the vote, they're going to be a major

659
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: They're going to be a major part in this new

660
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: administration if Trump wins. And you talk about you can't

661
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: really trust Trump. I mean, I think in terms of constituencies,

662
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: if you look at twenty sixteen, if you like this

663
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: or not, but it's the truth. I mean, the evangelicals

664
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: really came out and they put some a lot of

665
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: ideas and a lot of sort of things that it

666
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: was difficult for a lot of evangelicals to endorse Trump

667
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: and to vote for Trump. But what did Trump end

668
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: up doing for them? He delivered three Supreme Court justices

669
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: that ended up sending the abortion issue back to the States,

670
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: which is a which is a conservative viewpoint.

671
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: It met what they want.

672
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: So Trump has it as a track record of delivering

673
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: for those constituents who helped him deliver.

674
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 7: Let's say this comes to pass, there's a a bunch

675
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 7: of RFK junior turnout in the swing states and they

676
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 7: do lift Trump over the finish line, he becomes president. Again,

677
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 7: what would the prior we know what the evangelicals wanted

678
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 7: and they got it, what would what would what would

679
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 7: the similar thing be for RFK.

680
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: I missed a little part of that, but I'm not

681
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: too sure, you know, I've I've heard there's a lot

682
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: of people in the sort of the internet world who

683
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: talk about how they like them to be part of

684
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: the CIA because he can look at the you know,

685
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: the assassinations and this is that. I don't know what

686
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: he would like to do, but I can tell you

687
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: from his volunteers and folks that I've talked to, they

688
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: would love to see him in something like health and

689
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: human services where he can have an impact on things that.

690
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: Are important to us.

691
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: And and I would like to a lot of the

692
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: things that his supporters are into are sort of this

693
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: third wave of politics, regenerated farming, medical freedom, health and

694
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: our food, things like that.

695
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 3: So I cannot speak for mister.

696
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: Himself, and I don't know what hit the conversations that

697
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: him and President Trump would have, but I'm personally i'd

698
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: love to see him in a position in health and

699
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: human services.

700
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 7: I mean, from from my own perspective, agree like the

701
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 7: thing that's most interesting to me about him is the

702
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 7: you know, his elevation of the problem of toxics in

703
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 7: the in the food supply and in the environment, and

704
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 7: the regenerate farming is awesome all that stuff, but is

705
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 7: it isn't it a isn't it a problem? Kind of

706
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 7: inherent to RFK Junior that we don't know the answer

707
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 7: to that, and it's all and they're they're about to

708
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 7: start printing ballots like.

709
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 6: Sort of a gamble.

710
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 7: Shouldn't we know, like which element of his eclectic politics

711
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 7: is going to be the thing that he pushes in

712
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 7: a in a Trump administration, if this group of people

713
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 7: is going to go out and help push him over

714
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 7: the top.

715
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 3: When you say we are you talking about.

716
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 7: Everybody like me and you, all of us, just like

717
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 7: we know what the evangelicals wanted. They wanted Roby Wade overturned,

718
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 7: and they wanted you know this, this literal list of

719
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 7: justice has slapped onto the Supreme Court, so they would.

720
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 6: I don't know, I mean, we don't know it.

721
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a game with it.

722
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that gets the core of the incoherence of

723
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: the rfk K campaign. I mean, you can't pinpoint what

724
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 4: exactly he would be receiving in exchange for him abandoning

725
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 4: every declaration that he had been making for the past

726
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 4: ten months. And claiming he was running this unbelievably earth

727
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 4: shattering third party campaign by using his overrated family name

728
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: to galvanize disaffected podcast voters from across the political spectrum.

729
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 4: You could just speculate you can trust him by saying

730
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 4: he had all these fruitful conversations with Trump and it

731
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 4: turns out they agree on more than they disagree, and

732
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 4: now RFK Junior understands the true meaning of Maga and

733
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 4: can give us all these weird spiritual poems about the

734
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 4: meaning of Maga, and then you can be contented with that.

735
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 4: It seems a little bit foolish, especially if you were

736
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: believing what RFK Junior was saying uncritically as of like

737
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 4: a month ago, which turned out to be a total fabrication.

738
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 6: And don't take my word for it.

739
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 4: I know our other guest is trying to reflect the

740
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 4: sentiments of the portion of RFK Junior's voter base that

741
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 4: is pleased by this development. But there's another portion, some

742
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 4: of whom I've just been speaking to and reporting on

743
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 4: as of the past day, who told me that they

744
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 4: believe they have been swindled by RFK Junior, who has

745
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 4: violated this kind of a covenant or agreement or a

746
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: contract with those third parties whose nomination he accepted on

747
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 4: the understanding and the commitment that he would be seeking

748
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 4: the presidency and running a viable third party campaign.

749
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 6: To the very end, he's proven that now that that

750
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 6: was false.

751
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 4: So if you're going to say, oh, maybe RFK Junior

752
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 4: is going to be in the administration, look, I don't

753
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 4: doubt that Trump wants to throw a bone to him

754
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: and try to siphon off his electoral support to whatever

755
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 4: degree is possible. But even before Trump came into office

756
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: in twenty seventeen, he met with RFK Junior in Trump

757
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 4: Tower as president elect, and RFK Junior came away and said, look,

758
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 4: Donald Trump says he wants to work with me on

759
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 4: some sort of vaccine oversight program or some you know,

760
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 4: low level bureaucratic panel, and I'm happy to work with them.

761
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 4: That didn't come to pass. But if the end result

762
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 4: of this supposedly historic third party independent campaign that was

763
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 4: going to challenge the duopoly has now if the end

764
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 4: result is simply that RFK Junior might be installed on

765
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 4: some FDA panel to analyze, you know, the toxicity of soil,

766
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 4: I mean, look, I don't necessarily denigrate that as a

767
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 4: valid pursuit, but it's not in keeping with these sweeping

768
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 4: themes that RFK Junior was using to promote himself and

769
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 4: past himself as this unprecedentedly formidable third party or independent

770
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 4: candidate who was going to galvanize all these independent and

771
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 4: disaffected voters, when now he's just encouraging them to become

772
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 4: maga Republicans.

773
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 6: I mean, if.

774
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 4: People in his family or in his social cohort are

775
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 4: offended by this, I think they're correct too, as long

776
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 4: as they're not offended to it because they just hate

777
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 4: anything associated with Trump reflexively, but because it shows that

778
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 4: RFK Junior is willing to just throw into the garbage.

779
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 6: Can any of.

780
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 4: His purported principles if circumstances modestly shift and pretend that

781
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 4: he wasn't just denouncing somebody who now he is enthusiastically endorsing.

782
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 4: It doesn't even explain this supposed change of mind. I mean,

783
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 4: if you just kind of irrationally give yourself over to

784
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 4: whatever change of mind that a political figure makes, then

785
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 4: it shows that you're incredibly credulous and willing to believe anything,

786
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 4: which is why I'm surprised that some of the more

787
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 4: cultish devotees of RFK Junior or are following in this path.

788
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 4: But if you think of yourself as more of a

789
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 4: critical thinker who's like challenging the establishment, and that's why

790
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 4: you were supposedly enamored with RFK Junior, and now he

791
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 4: wants you to just to become a.

792
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 6: Card carrying Republican. I mean, give me a break.

793
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 4: I mean, this is this really should be insulting to

794
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 4: anyone's intuligence. But it gets to the core theme of

795
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 4: RFK Junior's campaign from the beginning, which was always insulting,

796
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 4: which is that he's going to be the torch bearer

797
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 4: for the supposedly anti establishment Kennedy legacy, which was always

798
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 4: a farce.

799
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 6: There was no anti establishment candidate Kennedy legacy.

800
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 4: It was just apparently a self promotional venture on rf

801
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: case part so he could get on an FDA panel.

802
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 6: Ultimately, really, I.

803
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 5: Mean next next to it, it could be Tracy versus

804
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 5: like Oliver.

805
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 6: Stone or Oliver Stone.

806
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 4: I mean, that movie was integral in furnishing some of

807
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 4: his bogus Kennedy mythology that puts him out as this

808
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: like savior figure of America who was martyred and needs

809
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 4: to be avenged, And unfortunately RFKA Junior was able to

810
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 4: continue on those ridiculous themes.

811
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 3: Well.

812
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 5: And on that note, Jeff, let's give you the last

813
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 5: word here with also the I'll toss the last word

814
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 5: to you with the question of is there also a

815
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 5: danger if you're somebody who you know opposes the duopoly,

816
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 5: opposes the broken two party system. Is there a danger

817
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 5: to someone who was formerly or who still says they're

818
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 5: a torch bearer for that cause dragging people into the

819
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 5: Republican Party? Is there is there anything about that that

820
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 5: concerns you? And you just give us your general sort

821
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 5: of wrap up thoughts as well.

822
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm a big proponent of third party politics and

823
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: that's that's the reason I'm into this campaign. So I personally,

824
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: so I don't think that he is dragging I don't

825
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: think he's dragging people into the Republican Party. I think

826
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: a group of his supporters are going to vote for

827
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: Donald Trump because they want to see mister Kennedy in

828
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: a position within a Trump White House to.

829
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: Make movements and to push their agenda. So does this.

830
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: Mean that four years from now that these say, if

831
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party doesn't change, or the Democratic Party doesn't

832
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: have a has a different a candidate, they're not going

833
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: to vote in that.

834
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 3: No, these are true. These are true independents.

835
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: There is no third party in the United States.

836
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 3: They're probably the way that they've.

837
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: Demolished the fusion voting laws over the last ten twenty years.

838
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: They'll probably never be another third party again until one

839
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: of these two parties, either the Republican.

840
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 3: Or the Democratic Party's fall.

841
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: What a better way to crush the duopalty duopolity than

842
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: bringing out than having a crushing defeat for a Democratic

843
00:44:55,239 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: presidential candidate in this election and causing real change in

844
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party understanding that this pathway that they're on

845
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: is not a good pathway. And if you would look

846
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: at if you're in mister Kennedy spot, and you look

847
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: at the primary, you look at the law fair that's

848
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: been waged against them, and you look at some of

849
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: the other things, I think it makes sense. So No,

850
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: I don't think this is in any which way a

851
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: hurting the independent party. I would imagine that this is

852
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: a good philosophy that I would encourage other third party

853
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: third party candidates to do.

854
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 3: In the future.

855
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: If we were having this conversation, say, you know, two

856
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: thousand and one, we would have been telling a lot

857
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: of people would have been telling Ralph Nader he should

858
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: have dropped out and endorse the Democrat, and we wouldn't

859
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: have tru we wouldn't.

860
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 3: Have had Bush.

861
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: So this idea of endorsing a candidate, especially at this time,

862
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: and you know, the presidential not as the primary, I

863
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: think it really gives an independent movement. It gives an

864
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: independent candidate a lot of political leverage. And I've heard

865
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: a lot what he said. Philosophically, I understand that, you know,

866
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: maybe maybe some fundents have a problem with it, maybe

867
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: some folks have a problem with it, but I see

868
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: it on and I don't think they're politician at all.

869
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: I think the volunteers are the most some of the

870
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: most brilliant, well rounded, achieve volunteer base that I've ever

871
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: worked with. But yeah, I mean, I think this is

872
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: a boss move on Kennedy, And you know, mister Tracy

873
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: and I just really disagree on what this outcome is.

874
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: And I do expect Kennedy to be Kennedy and his

875
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: support and his supporters to be the key thing that

876
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: you know moves Trump across the finish line, and when's

877
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: the election for Trump?

878
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 6: So well? Have actually a quick final point, yeah, quickly.

879
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 4: I mean the Republican Party is also regularly engaged in

880
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 4: law fair to Steiny, independent or third parties like Libertarian

881
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 4: Party or the Constitution Party. So that's not unique to

882
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party. Yes, they've been more vigorous this cycle,

883
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 4: combating RFA, your Cornell West and so forth, but it's

884
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 4: not in no way unique to the Democratic Party. So

885
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 4: to say that the best way to topple the duopoly

886
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 4: is to empower one prong of it, that's amazing pretzel logic.

887
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 4: But that's what you get when you're talking to a campaign.

888
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: Office and this is what happened.

889
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 6: Ridiculous decision. And one other.

890
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 4: Thing, I mean one other thing, one other thing.

891
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 6: I'm not pissing on history. I'm saying that the republicandidates.

892
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: The end of the end of the end of party

893
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 1: systems in America has normally happened when one party has

894
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: had a disastrous election and they changed the end of

895
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: the Whig Party, the end of okay, Well, okay.

896
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 4: Well we'll see if we'll see if the Democratic Party

897
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 4: is okay I'm sure come twenty twenty five, if Trump wins,

898
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party on a nationwide basis will dissolve itself.

899
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, that seems really feasible. Anyway.

900
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 4: I did want to just note that one of the

901
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 4: reasons that our chedutor claims that he is he's aligned

902
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 4: with Trump is on the issue of free speech. And

903
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 4: I'm not defending at all the record of the Democratic

904
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 4: Party as of late on issues of speech with the

905
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 4: First Amendment, and it's been abysmal, But the Republican Party,

906
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 4: including Trump, have been fanatical over the past ten months

907
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 4: and trying to purtail and punish and penalize a speech

908
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 4: that's critical of Israel. And I can see why RFK

909
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 4: Junior excludes that consideration from his calculus, because his fanaticism

910
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 4: around Israel is roughly comparable to that of Donald Trump.

911
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 4: So I'm sure they bonded over that in their little

912
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 4: soires down at mar Alago.

913
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 6: So congratulations to that word.

914
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: Last ten seconds, Kennedy, derangement syndrome is real.

915
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: I want to end up.

916
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 6: I'm not deranged.

917
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 4: I'm trying to be rational and just not a fanatical

918
00:48:58,239 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 4: cult devote of the guy.

919
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: This is the guy who this is the guy who

920
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: came out early on in the campaign and said that

921
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: Kennedy was a bad candidate because of the way he talked,

922
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: and people get yeah.

923
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 6: I did note that the guy my issue was not

924
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 6: a voice. I didn't bring that up.

925
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 4: He does sound like he's garbling rocks, which seems like

926
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: a potential communicative impediment. But I mean, that's just you

927
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 4: trying to say that I have some like psychological malfunction.

928
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: In my analysis, supporters have psychological malfunction.

929
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: So I guess what's good.

930
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 6: For these I said, there's a portion that have a

931
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 6: cult following.

932
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 4: That's what the third Party came actually, since South Carolina

933
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 4: said to me directly, since.

934
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 7: Our closing here is just off the rails anyway. I actually,

935
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 7: I actually do think the voice was a like actual

936
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 7: substantial problem for him in the race.

937
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 3: Did Jeff do you know what do you know, Jeff?

938
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 7: Do you know what was up with that?

939
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 3: Like? What was there was that diagnosed? Or what's what

940
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 3: the situation is that?

941
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 1: So you know he had a I don't know, there

942
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: was something that happened medically that happened to him where

943
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: his voice got really bad some time before the election.

944
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: He went he I believe he went to Japan and

945
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: he got some shots to try to fix it, and

946
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: some people they they fix and and.

947
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 3: They uh and and they didn't it would.

948
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it corrected its some, but it's still I

949
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: admit it's it's difficult.

950
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I listened to him so much.

951
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: You get to the point where you can't hear it,

952
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: and when you're talking to him one in person, it

953
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 1: really doesn't come.

954
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 3: Across at all.

955
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 4: All right, Well, my issue is not his voice, and

956
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 4: it was his misappropriation of his Tony family legacy.

957
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 6: All right, reason running we could go for my issue.

958
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 5: All right? Well, Journalist Michael Tracy and former National Field

959
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 5: Organization organizer for the RFK Junior campaign, Jeff Hutt, thank

960
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 5: you so much for joining us.

961
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 6: We appreciate it.

962
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: Thank you, guys. I appreciate y'all. I love y'all's program.

963
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much for tuning into that really

964
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 5: interesting debate. It's worth saying. I think we probably all agree,

965
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 5: all four of us would agree that this is a

966
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 5: consequential voting block our FK junior voters, given what happened

967
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 5: with Jill Stein and just how the math works out

968
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 5: in those blue Wall States, especially Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. We

969
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 5: know he's going to be on the ballot in Michigan,

970
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 5: Wisconsin as of right now, not getting his name off

971
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 5: the ballot, So how people decide to vote based on

972
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 5: RFK Junior, the previous support for him actually will matter.

973
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 7: I learned stuff from that conversation. That's all I ask for,

974
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 7: It's all we have, right. I thought that was actually interesting. Yeah,

975
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 7: it was interesting. Yeah, a couple of different viewpoints argued out,

976
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 7: it's a good more he asked for exactly.

977
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 5: It's always good when there's real contrast, and that is

978
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 5: what we hope to do on counterpoints, especially on these

979
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 5: Friday debates.

980
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 7: Name kind of gives it away.

981
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 3: I guess.

982
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not subtle.

983
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 5: So we hope everyone has a great Labor Day weekend

984
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 5: and we will see you back here on Wednesday with

985
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 5: more counterpoints.