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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready.

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Speaker 2: Or not, twenty twenty four is here, and we here

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Speaker 2: at breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can

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Speaker 2: up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 3: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 3: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 4: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 3: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 3: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 4: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 2: So one of the responses from liberals post Trump reelection

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Speaker 2: that has been kind of interesting is some number of

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Speaker 2: them have been leaving Twitter and fleeing to blue Sky,

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Speaker 2: the Twitter alternative.

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Speaker 1: We can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: In terms of the numbers, blue Sky apparently as of

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Speaker 2: several days ago had added a million new members as

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Speaker 2: users flee X after the US election. Now they are

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Speaker 2: up to fifteen million, So adding a million more is

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Speaker 2: significant given the comparatively small scale of blue Sky at

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Speaker 2: this point, And in this article they point out this

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Speaker 2: isn't the first serve that blue Sky has seen based

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Speaker 2: on like various indicators. So after rebranding to X, apparently

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Speaker 2: there was a big shift to blue Sky, and then

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Speaker 2: they also picked up three million new users after X

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Speaker 2: was suspended in Brazil back in September, and then a

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Speaker 2: further this one was interesting to me, one point two

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Speaker 2: million in the two days after X announced that they

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Speaker 2: would allow users to view posts from people who had

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Speaker 2: blocked them. So those were some of the big triggers.

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Speaker 2: I checked on the app store yesterday and blue Sky

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Speaker 2: is still the number one like downloaded app right now.

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Speaker 2: So there is something very real here. But it's also

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Speaker 2: worth keeping in perspective, like fifteen million users does not

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Speaker 2: even come close to comparing to Twitter, let alone Facebook

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Speaker 2: or TikTok or any of the other large social media giants.

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Speaker 2: I do think it's kind of an important indicator of

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Speaker 2: how liberals are processing and dealing with the fact that,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of these social media brands previously

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Speaker 2: coded as more liberal, you know, Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook, certainly

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Speaker 2: Twitter under Jack Dorsey, there was a sense that, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was more on the democratic side, and now that

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Speaker 2: has totally reversed, not just on Twitter with Elon Musk's ownership,

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Speaker 2: which there was a research showing that he did in

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Speaker 2: fact use the algorithm to juice Republican or pro Trump accounts,

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Speaker 2: and obviously including his own account, but also kind of

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Speaker 2: across the board with a bunch of these social media apps.

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Speaker 2: So liberals are taking a page on what conservatives were

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Speaker 2: doing previously with parlor and Gab and truth Social and whatever,

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Speaker 2: and saying, hey, we need our own space now to

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Speaker 2: post Trump election.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's I think, you know, the only reason

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Speaker 3: with the major reason we're doing the story. Not only

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Speaker 3: is it interesting, but it's part of the liberal response,

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Speaker 3: which is to shut off MSNBC and to kind of retreat.

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Speaker 3: And I think it was a big mistake that a

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Speaker 3: lot of Trump people made, and right wingers made in

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Speaker 3: the Twitter era twenty eighteen and honestly made people way

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Speaker 3: crazier right the truth Social, Parlor, Gab and all of

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Speaker 3: these other people's We talk a lot about echo chamber.

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Speaker 3: It's easy enough on a large enough platform we gay

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Speaker 3: yourself in an echo chamber. But I think it's a

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Speaker 3: mistake because psychologically, what they're trying to do is to

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Speaker 3: recreate their own like world. And I think I sympathize

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Speaker 3: with that on a certain level, but I also don't

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Speaker 3: think it can promote like, quote unquote understanding, because if

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Speaker 3: you're the type of person who have watched MSNBC or

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Speaker 3: be on bluing on Twitter or whatever, Like the truth

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Speaker 3: is like you don't understand the world. And this isn't

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Speaker 3: even in a denigrating way. In twenty sixteen, when Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump won the presidency, I'm telling you, I was shocked,

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Speaker 3: shocked to my core. It is the reason why I

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Speaker 3: really am today. I sat down and I just said,

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Speaker 3: all these people I read are wrong. Was it everything

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Speaker 3: I've consumed polling, you know, ideology, how the world works,

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Speaker 3: what Americans thing.

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Speaker 4: Like, Oh is it bullshit?

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Speaker 3: It's totally wrong, and I have to completely reevaluate all

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Speaker 3: of my new inputs. So twenty twenty I wasn't shocked

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Speaker 3: by what happened. Twenties twenty four, I wasn't shocked by

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Speaker 3: what happen. I can be a little bit surprised, but

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Speaker 3: like to we have literally never consumed enough information that

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Speaker 3: you're not truly surprised by an outcome. That was the

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Speaker 3: biggest change I made from twenty sixteen onwards. I encourage

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Speaker 3: people to respond to elections that shock you in a

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Speaker 3: similar way and be like, Okay, let's seek some stuff out,

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Speaker 3: because clearly I don't know what the.

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Speaker 4: Hell is happening here.

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Speaker 3: I don't know this blue Sky thing is going to

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Speaker 3: help that is a way. And I don't think it

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Speaker 3: helped Republicans either. I mean, they overcame to stop to

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Speaker 3: steal insanity of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 4: They got lucky frankly that people just like have moved.

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Speaker 3: On from it, but they paid a real price for

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Speaker 3: it in twenty twenty two as well. And I will

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Speaker 3: not yet say that the fight is over. Like post Trump,

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Speaker 3: what does it look like to have Trump endorsed style

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Speaker 3: candidates Without Donald Trump on the ballot? He overperformed every

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Speaker 3: Republican in the country except for Larry Hogan. So are

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Speaker 3: the incentives that you know, it's like Obama, are the

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Speaker 3: incentives that worked for him? Are they the same for

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Speaker 3: whoever comes next?

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Speaker 4: I'm not so sure. I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think the retreat of conservatives to their own social

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Speaker 2: media platforms, I don't think that that helped.

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Speaker 1: Like gab parlors with social whatever didn't help them. It

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Speaker 1: didn't really work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, none of those platforms really gained massive influence

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Speaker 2: in terms of the culture. I think buying Twitter definitely,

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Speaker 2: that did help them exactly. And I don't think that

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Speaker 2: so you know, these social media networks in some ways,

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Speaker 2: they're sort of like natural monopolies, you would call them,

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Speaker 2: because the whole value of the network is its size,

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Speaker 2: you know, the value is the number of connections that

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Speaker 2: are there, the number of news outlets that are there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, for us in terms of the job that

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Speaker 2: we do, like Blue Sky would not be that valuable

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Speaker 2: because I just can't do the news gathering on there

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Speaker 2: that I can do on Twitter, even under Elon's ownership.

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Speaker 2: And so that's why these spinoffs have never really worked.

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Speaker 2: And even Threads, which was the Facebook attempt to kind

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Speaker 2: of like recreate a Twitter like thing, first of all,

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Speaker 2: they completely suppressed They don't really want political content there,

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Speaker 2: so they suppressed political content, so it's not a real alternative.

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Speaker 2: But also it just doesn't have the juice that Twitter

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Speaker 2: does in terms of the culture. So I don't think

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Speaker 2: liberals are wrong to look at what happened and say,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, Twitter ended up being very important in

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Speaker 2: this election, and we're in this sort of post truth

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Speaker 2: environment and it is no longer the case that what

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Speaker 2: happens online is not real life. Actually, what happens online

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Speaker 2: kind of is real life, and that's the era that

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Speaker 2: we live in, there needs to be some sort of

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Speaker 2: response to it. But I am skeptical that you know,

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Speaker 2: we're treating into this more sort of niche ideological space

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Speaker 2: is really going to be the answer.

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Speaker 1: What is the answer?

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Speaker 2: I don't really know, because Elan on Twitter now like

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Speaker 2: that Genie is out of the bottle, that Pandora box

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Speaker 2: has been open.

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Speaker 1: There's no going back from that.

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Speaker 2: And I think the other social media outlets like a

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Speaker 2: Facebook is an important way. I mean, Facebook used to

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Speaker 2: be more you know, feel like it had at least

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Speaker 2: somewhat of a democratic inclination, although right wing content has

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Speaker 2: always done extraordinarily well on Facebook. But Zuckerberg himself obviously

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Speaker 2: used to be more liberal, more pro Democrat. He's one

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Speaker 2: of the people who, before Trump was elected, was making

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Speaker 2: phone calls and trying to make nice and really trying

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Speaker 2: to overcome this sense from conservatives that he and other

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Speaker 2: tech oligarchs were you know, in the bag for Democrats.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Zuckerberg came under a lot of it was

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Speaker 1: part of.

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Speaker 2: The whole you know theory, the sort of like high

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Speaker 2: minded stop this deal theory. And so I think by

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Speaker 2: working the rafts, Republicans really were successful and getting the

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Speaker 2: type of content moderation that favored their content that they

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Speaker 2: were looking for. And under a Trump administration, like Zuckerberg's

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Speaker 2: going to want to stay in good with you know,

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Speaker 2: the guy, the big guy who's in charge, who's capable

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Speaker 2: of using the federal government, weaponizing it against him and

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Speaker 2: his interest, et cetera, and once again being like facing

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Speaker 2: the ire of an agitated conservative base. So you know, I,

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Speaker 2: like I said, I'm sympathetic to why people are moving

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Speaker 2: to Blue Sky. I understand it, but I don't really

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Speaker 2: think it's a response to the social media landscape being

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Speaker 2: kind of overwhelmingly right wing at this point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they just don't get it.

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Speaker 3: And uh, you know, I mean it's it's complicated because

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Speaker 3: when people are like, oh, right wing content's popular on Facebook,

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Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, but that's because it's independent and user

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Speaker 3: generated and the mainstream media is already liberal. So like

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Speaker 3: when the vast majority of the culture is liberal, then

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Speaker 3: used and institutional stuff is quote unquote liberal, then yeah,

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Speaker 3: user generated content is going to be predominantly right wing.

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Speaker 3: That's another reason why YouTube and others, because it's literally

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Speaker 3: a dissonance space. It's one that doesn't exist for institutional

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Speaker 3: like elite capture. If you want that, it already exists.

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Speaker 3: There's an entire machine for it. So I wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: that they worked the refs or whatever. I mean, there

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Speaker 3: was an overwhelming yeah, but there's an overwhelming amount of

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Speaker 3: right wing censorship that also happened under Facebook Mark Zuckerberg.

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Speaker 4: The Hunter Biden laptop is.

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Speaker 3: The most famous example, but there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: you know, algorithmic preference and stuff that they put their

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Speaker 3: own thumb on the scales. Twitter obviously, you know, probably

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Speaker 3: the most in stories platform prior to Elon Musk, And

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Speaker 3: I think what happened ultimately is that you know, when

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Speaker 3: you say online is right wing, I think that's because

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Speaker 3: America is a lot more right wing than people want

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Speaker 3: to believe. I think that America, especially with the Trump

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Speaker 3: victory and the popular vote and the massive shift for

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Speaker 3: a lot of these places, it's not the platform's fault.

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Speaker 3: I think people themselves were responding to social, political, and

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Speaker 3: economic incentives and have fundamentally changed. They're not right wing

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Speaker 3: in the way that most people think like. They're not

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Speaker 3: right in the way that you may think of the

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Speaker 3: nineteen nineties about gay marriage or abortion, even but you know,

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Speaker 3: are they right wing on the trans question?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: On immigration? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Are they right wing in a sense that they hate

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Speaker 3: institutions absolutely? In terms of backlash against me too, That's

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Speaker 3: something we talked a little bit about yesterday, Like that

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Speaker 3: is a sense in which being online is right wing.

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Speaker 3: But there's also a tremendous amount of quote unquote left

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Speaker 3: wing content and a lot of left wing social movements

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Speaker 3: which then in of themselves have their roots in online.

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Speaker 3: So all online has done is it's niched, you know,

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Speaker 3: most of American society. That's how really what I would

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Speaker 3: say that overall net effect of it is. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's actually bad because outside of the whole echo

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Speaker 3: chamber thing, again, exposure to different stuff that you must

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Speaker 3: do actually in an algorithmic world, I find it you

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Speaker 3: must do it more so and more intentionally than ever before.

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Speaker 3: You must intentionally seek out things that you'd not only

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Speaker 3: disagree with, things that will rock your worldview so that

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Speaker 3: you're never surprised by anything. And I have to read

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Speaker 3: so much and talk to you and do a lot

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Speaker 3: of other stuff just to be able to like still

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Speaker 3: check my biases.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think most people do that. Intentionally at all.

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Speaker 3: That's the real danger. That's why you shouldn't do this

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Speaker 3: blue sky retreat. That's what the mistake is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, I guess from the liberal perspective,

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Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, but Republicans like tout them solve into

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Speaker 2: a bubble and it worked out okay for them.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's a sense.

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Speaker 4: You win sometimes and you also lose.

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Speaker 2: Like the other thing I would say is in some senses, yes,

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Speaker 2: like I think the country uncertain. It's just certainly an

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Speaker 2: immigration has moved right. But Trump still didn't even win

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of the vote. Okay, so you don't also

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Speaker 2: don't want to like, oh, the country like seventy five

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Speaker 2: percent they didn't vote, you know, seventy five percent didn't

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Speaker 2: vote for Trump. It was forty nine points eight or

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Speaker 2: whatever it's going to end up being. So it's still

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Speaker 2: is very much a fifty to fifty kind of a country.

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Speaker 2: And when you look at a bunch of the more

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Speaker 2: liberal ballot initiatives across the country, certainly the country's not

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Speaker 2: right wing on abortion rights, countries not right wing on

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Speaker 2: you know, minimum wage, not right wing on not having

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Speaker 2: paid sick leave, or things like that of that nature.

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Speaker 2: So it's you know, to me, it's not as clear cut.

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Speaker 2: I think more to the point saga that you made,

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Speaker 2: the piece that resonated more with me was that liberals

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Speaker 2: have always felt like they had their own spaces already,

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Speaker 2: like they felt comfortable, comfy with the New York Times

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Speaker 2: and the Washington Post and they do CNN and whatever.

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Speaker 2: I do think some of that has shifted, Like it's

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Speaker 2: not as much antipathy towards those organizations as Republicans have, certainly,

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Speaker 2: but there is a real shift among the liberal base

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Speaker 2: that started even you know, before Joe Biden got out

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Speaker 2: of the race. And again some of their critiques I

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Speaker 2: agree with, some of them I don't agree with. But

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Speaker 2: there has been a real breaking of the faith with

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Speaker 2: liberal and the institutions where they have always felt like

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Speaker 2: they totally comfortable and like they were you know, their

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Speaker 2: perspective was being held up and you know, they could

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Speaker 2: see themselves in the coverage there. And so it does

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Speaker 2: create an interesting moment for you know, different social media

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Speaker 2: experience experiments, for different you know, podcasts and media, et

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Speaker 2: cetera that didn't exist before. So in any case, I

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Speaker 2: kind of view this in the light of that new

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Speaker 2: liberal experimentation and that new liberal break with some of

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Speaker 2: the institutions that they previously felt so confident and comfortable

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Speaker 2: in during the last iteration. The one one last piece

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Speaker 2: that we can show you here just to see this

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Speaker 2: graphically of what it has looked like. We can put

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Speaker 2: this D two up on the screen so you can

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Speaker 2: see a Surgeon Blue Sky daily visits right after the election,

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Speaker 2: and then you can also see a huge search in

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Speaker 2: X account D activations. So there has just definitely been

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Speaker 2: you know, for people who are not like necessarily as

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Speaker 2: into politics as we are, where they're just kind of like,

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Speaker 2: you know, this space is just not really where I

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Speaker 2: want to be anymore. I think some of it is

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Speaker 2: that too, where it's just like, you know, I'm just

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Speaker 2: kind of done here in the elon Twitter Musk Twitter

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Speaker 2: and Twitter Musk elon Twitter era, I'm just.

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Speaker 1: Kind of done with this.

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Speaker 2: And so there is there is definitely something happening here,

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Speaker 2: and like I said to me, it's just emblematic of

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Speaker 2: this new landscape of like, okay, well, the things we

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Speaker 2: did to respond to Trump last time didn't work. The

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Speaker 2: institutions we relied on to help guide us through this

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Speaker 2: time utterly failed us. So let's try some other things

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Speaker 2: to see what's going well.

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Speaker 4: That actually can be very healthy.

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Speaker 3: So I remember I would meet like predominantly old ladies

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Speaker 3: who really hated Trump, and they were like, I fought

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Speaker 3: him on social media, and like they believed that they

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Speaker 3: believed they were engaged in a war by retweeting Muller

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Speaker 3: she wrote, and Seth Abramson and all these other you know,

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Speaker 3: Eric Garland and all these social media stars from last

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Speaker 3: time around. And I think it made me healthy this

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Speaker 3: time that they're like, wait, no, that doesn't work. You know,

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Speaker 3: there are a lot of people who live entire lives

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Speaker 3: via proxy, and that's the one thing I would beg

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Speaker 3: you don't do that.

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Speaker 4: You know, I noticed this with Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: People literally believe that they're fighting on the front you know,

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Speaker 3: on the democracy front line or whatever by tweeting against

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Speaker 3: people who disagree with their position on Ukraine, or by

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Speaker 3: like retweeting and reposting Ukrainian propaganda, Like is that beneficial

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Speaker 3: to their cause? Like maybe, you know, are you the

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Speaker 3: same as a frontline soldier? No, absolutely not. There's a

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Speaker 3: big thing like that in political you know, in political

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Speaker 3: commentary and even just political stats and all that. I

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Speaker 3: notice on Twitter, like there's an entire army of people

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Speaker 3: who are on Twitter who like believe that they're really

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Speaker 3: impacting things for Donald Trump and his victory. Maybe zero

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Speaker 3: point zero five percent of them are the rest it's like,

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Speaker 3: you're just chaff right, You're just like retweeting and doing

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Speaker 3: nothing mostly with your life. So I think that is

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Speaker 3: also perhaps a healthy response because I noticed a lot

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've actually kind of shifted my view on

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Speaker 2: that because I think that the posting was really important

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Speaker 2: for Trump's victor.

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Speaker 4: But that's a selection bias or this. It's the people

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Speaker 4: who are good at it, that work the fast that

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Speaker 4: you need.

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Speaker 2: But you need the reply guys, you need the retweeters.

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Speaker 2: Like that's part of what makes the ecosystem work. And

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Speaker 2: so when you think of the story of this election,

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the big divides that came out

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Speaker 2: is that people who were hyper engaged in political news,

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Speaker 2: who were reading the New York Times or even engaged

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Speaker 2: in you know, MSBC or whatever Fox News hyper engaged

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Speaker 2: political news media consumers, they voted for Kamala, and people

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Speaker 2: who were not hyper engaged, who were consuming this selection

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Speaker 2: more through like just like memes.

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Speaker 1: And culture and vibes. They voted for Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think I can say at this point

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Speaker 2: that the posting doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: I think the posting was important.

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Speaker 2: I think that the you know, the memes that came

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Speaker 2: out of Trump at McDonald's and the image that came

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Speaker 2: out after the assassination attempt with his fists in the

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Speaker 2: air and the garbage truck, like all this stuff, which

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Speaker 2: was just about all line fodder and meme content. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I think posting actually ended up being important.

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Speaker 2: I do think online is kind of the real world now,

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Speaker 2: and you know, liberals do have to to gropple with that,

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Speaker 2: and people on the left have to grapple with that

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Speaker 2: as well. So I don't think it used to be though.

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Speaker 2: I think this is like kind of a new era

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Speaker 2: we've entered into, with the whole podcast election, in the

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Speaker 2: downfall of media ecosystems, in the purchase of Twitter by

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk. But yeah, I actually think they're right that

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Speaker 2: they are engaged in a real social movement that had

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Speaker 2: real world impacts because so much of our life does

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Speaker 2: exist online now and there isn't that separation there.

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Speaker 5: Used to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's a good counter. I hadn't thought

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Speaker 3: about it. I guess I think it's more existed and

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Speaker 3: worked on the right because people are already not on

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Speaker 3: mainstream media. And this comes to our MSNBC question, will

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Speaker 3: they stay on mainstream media or not that I really

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think they'll go back. I think they will.

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Speaker 1: Online is the culture now, that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, culture obviously feeds politics. So if

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Speaker 2: you aren't compete in the online culture, like you're gonna

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Speaker 2: get DRASKI.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, uh, maybe we'll see.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, there's some very troubling news out

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Speaker 3: of Ukraine. Let's go and put this up there on

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Speaker 3: the screen. The Biden administration, with less than two months

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Speaker 3: left in office, has dramatically changed US policy in Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: allowing Ukraine to use long range US missiles to strike

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Speaker 3: inside of Russia. The president for the first time authorized

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Speaker 3: the Ukrainian military to use the atacms the at cams

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Speaker 3: to help defend its forces in the Kerse region. Now,

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Speaker 3: this is particularly insane for a number of reasons. One

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Speaker 3: is that this was considered a red line for Russian

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Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin, which he has said repeatedly and said, if

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Speaker 3: you do so, then NATO will be considered an active

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Speaker 3: military target and participant in this war. Second is, if

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Speaker 3: you actually look crystal at the military operation where this

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Speaker 3: is happening, this is to support a Ukrainian invasion of Russia.

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Speaker 3: So this is Ukraine's invasion of Kursk, where they crossed

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Speaker 3: an internationally recognized border with a military operation and are

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Speaker 3: now facing a Russian offensive of Russian troops and some

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Speaker 3: fifty thousand North Korean elite special forces. We are using

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Speaker 3: out these long range missiles for Ukraine to strike inside

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Speaker 3: of internationally recognized sovereign Russian territory. Now, two wrongs don't

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Speaker 3: make a right, correct. You know, if your entire case

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Speaker 3: is they legally invaded us, they took our territory in

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Speaker 3: all this, and you're like, oh, well, we're gonna invade

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Speaker 3: you to show you whose boss, It's like, okay, philosophically,

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Speaker 3: you know, I can understand that. But if your entire

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Speaker 3: case is around having the entire world support your democratization

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Speaker 3: project and all that.

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Speaker 4: It's like, well then it gets a little bit complicated.

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Speaker 3: And so already we can confirm as of this morning

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Speaker 3: that the first long range missile was used inside of Russia.

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Speaker 3: But second, if you read inside of it, they say

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Speaker 3: they do not expect this to change the course of

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Speaker 3: the war. They do not expect this to change the

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Speaker 3: course of this defensive. At best, you know, you can

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Speaker 3: kill a few more North Koreans or Russia, so it's

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Speaker 3: not even strategically going to really change the outcome. And

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Speaker 3: then finally, I think this is a really disgusting move

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Speaker 3: because what I think is happening is that they are

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Speaker 3: trying Number one, Anthony Blincoln said they're going to push

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Speaker 3: every dollar out to Ukraine that they possibly illegally can

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Speaker 3: while they're in office. And two, I think that they're

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Speaker 3: trying to set the standard for Donald Trump and his

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Speaker 3: administration in office so that they are then forced to

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Speaker 3: try and get headlines in the media being like Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump reverses the policy of missiles, you know, long range

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Speaker 3: missiles that are being used inside of Russia and allowed

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Speaker 3: for the Ukrainian forces.

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Speaker 4: It's a deep state, tried and true thing.

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Speaker 3: They did it to Obama as well whenever he was

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Speaker 3: coming into office, and so there the entire policy is nuts.

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Speaker 4: The entire policy is crazy.

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Speaker 2: I think the idea is that Ukraine feels like if

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Speaker 2: Trump is coming into office, there is a decent chance

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Speaker 2: we don't know for sure if it's going to happen

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Speaker 2: or not, but there's a decent chance that he's going

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Speaker 2: to force some kind of a peace settlement. Yes, and

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Speaker 2: they want to be able to have something they can

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Speaker 2: trade for their own territory in that settlement. And so

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Speaker 2: the idea is if they can be successful in this,

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Speaker 2: I'm not valid a, I'm just explaining the logic. If

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Speaker 2: they can be successful in this, you know, Russian attack

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Speaker 2: and invasion, and have some territory in Russia that they hold,

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Speaker 2: that they can use that as a bargaining chip to

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Speaker 2: come out in a better position after these negotiations. So

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Speaker 2: I think that's ultimately what it's you know, what's going

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Speaker 2: on here, And that doesn't undercut what you said Zagera

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Speaker 2: of the level of danger of allowing this sunfold. I

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Speaker 2: do think it's unlikely that putin because he also is

439
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: seeing the same landscape of like, let's wait and see

440
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: what Trump does when he comes in. I think it's

441
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 2: unlikely that he reacts in the most aggressive and hostile

442
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,719
Speaker 2: way of like actively attacked a NATO country or you know,

443
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 2: using nukes or something like that. But you know you're

444
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 2: running a risk and that's kind of a wild thing

445
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: to do.

446
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 4: Look at already what they're doing.

447
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 3: You know, again, Ukraine is losing They have been losing

448
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 3: territory consistently for months. We've been focused on the election,

449
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 3: so we haven't been able to cover it. But put

450
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 3: this up there on the screen. I mean, the largest

451
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 3: missile attack on Ukrainian infrastructure literally just happened a couple

452
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: of days ago. It's a disaster over there for them,

453
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 3: I mean their population. Already, the latest poll that has

454
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 3: come out shows that fifty two percent of Ukrainians want

455
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 3: to pursue a negotiated settlement. That's up almost thirty percent

456
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,959
Speaker 3: over the last couple of years.

457
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 4: Also, let's put this on the screen.

458
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: From the Wall Street Journal Trump's pushed for the Ukraine

459
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: piece finds quote growing acceptance in Europe.

460
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 4: Germany arguably the.

461
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 3: Country with the most to lose, and you know, the

462
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 3: balance of power and all that their chancellor has said,

463
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 3: no way, we're not sending more long range missiles or

464
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 3: escalating the war in Ukraine. Will provide them with basic

465
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 3: military assistance. But they're red lines they're sticking to because

466
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,679
Speaker 3: they have real stakes. They also know they don't have

467
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 3: the money to continue this war without the colossal amount

468
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 3: of funds the United States has been pushing into this conflict.

469
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: So all the signs point to what is obviously best

470
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: for everybody, Ukraine, Russia, and for the entire world.

471
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 4: Let's end the war.

472
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 5: Now.

473
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 3: Nobody is going to win, the Russians or the Ukrainians,

474
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 3: although and I will at least give the countercase. John

475
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: Meersheimer doesn't believe the negotiated settlement will happen because he goes, look,

476
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 3: Russia's already winning the war, why would they do it?

477
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: Russia and the Putin regime, specifically the Putin regime has

478
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: very little respect for human life. They don't care, right

479
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: a couple hundred thousand people are dead whatever. For some reason,

480
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: in Russia they seem to be okay with that, especially

481
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: the government. Well, now you've got these elite, you know,

482
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 3: North Korean.

483
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 4: Forces who are with you.

484
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 3: You've got North Korea giving you ammunition, You've got Iran

485
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 3: producing these suicide drones. You're actually rolling back the territory.

486
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 3: You've got the sunk cost fallacy of a couple hundred

487
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: thousand people maybe we don't nobody knows the number, but

488
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 3: have died on the front line. The Ukrainians are failing.

489
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 3: Why would I negotiate now? Like in a certain sense,

490
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 3: you know, they have the least amount of incentive right

491
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: now to negotiate. So I'm hoping that Donald Trump can

492
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 3: actually change that and bring this to some sort of

493
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 3: bigger settlement and convince Putin that it's not in his

494
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: best interest. But all the deck is arrayed against them,

495
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: it has been for years. Nobody wants to listen. Today

496
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 3: is the one thousandth day apparently of the Ukraine War,

497
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: which is crazy. And if you consider, like all of

498
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 3: the macro strategic and economic picture points in one direction,

499
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 3: more Ukrainian territory lost. The more that they push this,

500
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: the longer that it prolongeds, you will see the age

501
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 3: will continue to tick up with the Ukrainian military, the

502
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 3: population will continue to suffer, you know, food, energy costs,

503
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 3: all of this already, I mean a huge percent of

504
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: the country is left.

505
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 4: You know, they're best in the brightest of left long ago.

506
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: So they have massive problems and worse, you know, really

507
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 3: is the escalation trying to tie the Trump administration's hands,

508
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: and like you said, you know, pray and hope that

509
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: this doesn't backfire.

510
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 4: Do I think Putin is going to attack us over it?

511
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 6: No?

512
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: But you know, do I think that it still crossed

513
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 3: as certain red lines and gives a lot of incentives

514
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 3: inside of the Russian military for how they should think

515
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 3: very differently about approaching the West and even any hope

516
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 3: of a rap prochmodel with them that lasts longer than

517
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, which is what I think everybody should like

518
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: to see.

519
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 4: So I don't know, you know, in the North Korea thing,

520
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 4: just final point.

521
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about, you know, the fact that some

522
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 3: thousands of troops that are in Russia is a failure

523
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 3: of Biden foreign policy. Donald Trump had a policy of

524
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: engagement with North Korea that was great because we actually

525
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 3: had good relations, there were no missiles flying around. Whatever

526
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 3: Biden came in, we immediately reverted to maximum pressure and sanctions.

527
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: And what do they do. Of course they go to

528
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: China and Russia right back to where they were and

529
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: now there's troops on the Ukraine front line. This could

530
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 3: easily have been prevented if we have diplomatic relations. Then

531
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: we're fine. You know, they're a nuclear program. By the way,

532
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 3: nothing has happened to it plot twist over the last

533
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 3: four years of maximum pressure on their thing. It's the

534
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: same story with you Ron the Venezuela. After you reach

535
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 3: a certain critical mass, it's not sanctions on all this,

536
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 3: it will do nothing.

537
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 7: Yeah.

538
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: Too, how many years have we had sanctions on Cuba?

539
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 4: What is that sixty actually made more?

540
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just insane.

541
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 2: One last point on the European leaders and the call

542
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: with the last Schultz and all of that, because I

543
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: think that's very significant is not only do they see

544
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: the writing on the wall in terms of this war

545
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: which has gone on for far too long, where you know,

546
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: the US and the UK banded together to block any

547
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: sort of potential piece deal at the beginning. I mean

548
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: that really was the failure, because that was the time

549
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: when Russia was in the most precarious position where it

550
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: was unclear how people would respond politically, or it was

551
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: unclear how much the sanctions would bite, or it's unclear

552
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: how much the loss of life would create instability. You

553
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: know within the country itself. They've weathered all those storms,

554
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: so that continues to have been the real failing in

555
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 2: this opportunity, in this war. But I think also a

556
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: lot of these leaders are looking at the fact that

557
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: you know, I did a monologue yesterday about how Democrats

558
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: commitment to genocide and Gaza, and also a number of

559
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: voters mentioned the war in Ukraine was part of what

560
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: turned them off from voting for Democrats again, because you know,

561
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: even as you see, you still see pretty decent levels

562
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: of support for Ukraine, Like Americans are sympathetic.

563
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: To the cause.

564
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 2: But they also got the accurate sense from Joe Biden

565
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: in particular, but by extension Kamala Harris, that this is

566
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: what he actually cared about. He didn't really care that

567
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: much that you couldn't afford groceries, that you couldn't that

568
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: your budget was stretched tight, that you couldn't imagine ever

569
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: even being able to become a homeowner. Like the only

570
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: thing he could really talk about was NATO and Aucus

571
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: and like this, you know, visions of grandeur with regard

572
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: to this imagined fight between democracy and autocracy, where were

573
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: the good guys when manifestly, with regard to our actions

574
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: in Gaza, we are not the good guys. So I

575
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 2: think they also are reading the political t leaves, not

576
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: just here of how this had an impact on the

577
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: election and helped to bring Trump back to the White House,

578
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: but you see parties throughout Europe that are both on

579
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: the right and on the left who are critics of

580
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: the European and the American policy visa the Ukraine who

581
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: are on the rise. And you know, there's a number

582
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: of factors that go into that, but Ukraine is certainly

583
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: one of them. And so I think that's the other piece,

584
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: is not only reading the tea leaves and the writing

585
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: on the wall with regard to the status of the

586
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: war and how things are likely to go in the future,

587
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: but also looking out for their own political survival and

588
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: realizing that there is you know, there's a real political

589
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: backlash to this endless support for Ukraine and what is

590
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: at this point a helpless cost.

591
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point, and you know, ultimately this

592
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: just feeds more into the Biden failure. His legacy was

593
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 3: NATO and now a guy is getting elected explicitly at

594
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: least with a pledge.

595
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 4: We'll see what he does.

596
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: And the war that he said was so vital and

597
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: critical to US policy and security. I will say I

598
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 3: am an August fan too, so love August here. That's

599
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: outside an August voter.

600
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: I'm not an Aucust voter.

601
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 3: I appreciate the Anglo sphere, and I think that is

602
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: how we should have relations, rather than some bullshit treaty

603
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: from eighty years ago about why I'm supposed to go

604
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: and die for North Montenegro or.

605
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: Whatever I think we should have.

606
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: Just as a final closest, I think we should and

607
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: I think we both do have some skepticism of what

608
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: Trump will actually do here because he has said a

609
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: bunch of different things. Obviously you've got Mark or Rubio

610
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: and a bunch of neocons that he's put into key positions.

611
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: There is you know, there's a reason why even though

612
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: he made overtures to withdraw from Afghanistan, why he didn't

613
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: do it because look at the political cost that Joe

614
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: Biden paid for actually doing what voters have claimed they

615
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: wanted and withdrawing from Afghanistan. Because guess what, anytime you

616
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: try to disentangle yourself from one of these conflicts, it

617
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: can be really ugly and the press almost uniformly turns

618
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: against you, and the leaks from the generals about you know,

619
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: like it could genuinely be damaging to his presidency. And

620
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: he's no fool, so you know, ultimately he doesn't care

621
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: outside of his own like self preservation. So if he

622
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: looks at the landscape and is like, this isn't good

623
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: for me politically, I don't think you know, it's not

624
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: crazy to imagine that he takes a very different approach

625
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: than what he at times signaled on the campaign trail,

626
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: and he wasn't even consistent in what he signaled on

627
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: the campaign trail.

628
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: That's right, Crystal, what are you taking a look at?

629
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: Well, the war is on in the Democratic Party to

630
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: assign blame for Kamwa Harris's loss and to help set

631
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: the narrative for what will come next. To boil it down,

632
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: you basically got a maintain the status quo faction going

633
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: up against a burn it all down faction on one side.

634
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: You've effectively got all the people who were most directly

635
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: implicated in this loss. You get the donors, consultants, operatives,

636
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: and establishment Democrats who by and large authored this campaign,

637
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: and the media figures who helped to construct and enforce

638
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: this iteration of the Democratic Party. They're complicit in destroying

639
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: Bertie's movement, elevating Biden, blocking a twenty twenty four primary,

640
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: and setting the messaging direction of the dem Party in

641
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: general and the Kamala Harris campaign specifically. They believed that

642
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: an anti Trump coalition heavily reliant on suburban Liz Cheney

643
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: voters could be assembled and activated and win. Harris campaign

644
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 2: strategy was buy and larnch design to appeal to this

645
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: imagined affluent coalition. This group is interested in any and

646
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: all arguments that can effectively maintain the current Democratic Party

647
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: status quo. That includes punching left, which again is no

648
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: different from the longtime Democratic Party status quo, and denying

649
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: that there's really any problem whatsoever. At war with this

650
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: camp are those who believe that the Democratic Party lost

651
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: the working class and with it, the election because they

652
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: failed that working class AOC Bernie Rocanna. Those are some

653
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: of the proponents, but there have been a few surprising

654
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 2: mainstream allies in the fight, people like Senator Chris Murphy

655
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: and even to my absolute shock.

656
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: David Brooks.

657
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: These folks have correctly suggested that Democrats take a lesson

658
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: from Bernie Sanders, embrace real economic populism, piss off their

659
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: high income base, and donor class and lean into the

660
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: politics of class war. This camp, in which I am included,

661
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: is the most correct, but also has the biggest obstacles

662
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: in front of it, since big Bunny interest are not

663
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: likely to just abandon their interest in the Democratic Party. Well, folks,

664
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: we got a new salvo in this war between the

665
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: status quo and burnt down factions in the form of

666
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: The New York Times op ed by John Fetterman's former

667
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 2: chief of staff. In an obed titled when will Democrats

668
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: Learn to Say No? Adam Gentilsen argues that Democrats are

669
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: losing because they cater too much to the world of

670
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: left interest groups. In making the argument, he named checks ACLU,

671
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: Sunrise Justice, Democrats, and Working Families Party for pushing Kamala

672
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty, to support the current law and

673
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: surgeries for transgender prisoners, to decriminalize border crossings, and for

674
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: generally attempting to push Democrats left on criminal justice reform.

675
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: This op postures as an argument for Democratic Party reform,

676
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: but in actuality it already reflects the twenty twenty four

677
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: reality of the Democratic Party. This analysis might have held

678
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: more weight back in twenty twenty when those groups helped

679
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: to shape the debate that happen inside of that Democratic

680
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: Party primary, not in twenty twenty four, when they hold

681
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: basically no sway, Kama abandoned all of the positions mentioned

682
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: in their piece to the extent she ever really supported

683
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: them at all. She ran on being a cop, adopted

684
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: Republican immigration positions, embracelets Cheney, and literally never talked about

685
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: trans issues at all. In other words, not only does

686
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: this argument fail to threaten the status quo, it just

687
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: reinforces it. The argument also may have had made more

688
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: sense if, rather than including a bunch of basically powerless

689
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: groups that, contrary to the title, Democrats have no trouble

690
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: constantly saying no to the OpEd, looked at groups like

691
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: APAK and the Democratic Majority for Israel who have actually

692
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: been insanely influential in the twenty twenty four world of politics.

693
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: AOC made this point on Twitter and is now predictably

694
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: being smeared as an anti semi She wrote quote, if

695
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: people were to talk about members of Congress being overly

696
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: influenced by a special interest group pushing a wildly unpopular

697
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: agenda that pushes voters away from Democrats, then they should

698
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: be discussing Apak, she is obviously correct. Their money has

699
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: shaped everything from the crackdown on campus protest to the

700
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: defeat of even mild critics of Israel to the Kamala

701
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 2: Harris's own refusal to break from Biden on one of

702
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: his worst issues. And it wasn't just these lefty groups

703
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: that came in for scrutiny, though in the pages of

704
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: The New York Times, Gentlesen also takes a shot at

705
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: the anti trust movement.

706
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: Here's the quote.

707
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: By wishing away these complexities, a coalition first mindset produces

708
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: many candidates who are the inverse of what voters want,

709
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: people with the cultural sensibilities of Yale Law school graduates

710
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: who cause play as populous by over relying on niche

711
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: issues like Federal Trade Commission antitrust actions.

712
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: To start with, the structure of corporate power is far

713
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: from a niche issue.

714
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: In addition, it's truly funny that this line, including the

715
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: Yale part, could just as easily describe the now victorious

716
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: Jadie Vance as anyone inside of the Democratic coalition, something

717
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: that our friend and anti trust advocate in Matt Stoller

718
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: pointed out. But most importantly, this line is actually the

719
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: key to unlocking and understanding of what is really going

720
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: on inside of this article, the Biden anti trust agenda

721
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: was hated by the Democratic donor class who went to

722
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: war with Lena Khan in every way they knew. How so,

723
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: it is quite convenient that in this piece, attempting to

724
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: blame the left for an election manifestly lost by the Centrists,

725
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: Gentlessen also seeks to throw overboard the parts of the

726
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: Biden agenda which actually did threaten the class interests of

727
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: those in the status quo camp. In fact, as Jet

728
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: here points out, a much larger problem for Kamala was

729
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: the fact that she let donors talk her out of

730
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 2: highlighting the most potent parts of her economic platform, including

731
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: backing away from the Biden administration's terrific trustbusting record. Jet

732
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: highlights this New York Times reporting that Kamala's corporate allies

733
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: and donors hated the price gouging ban and pressured her

734
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 2: to limit its reach. The Times reports quote the price

735
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: gouging touched on a broader anxiety among Miss Harris's corporate allies,

736
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: who were worried that her economic policies might cater to

737
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. The article also

738
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: notes the Kamma backed off a hike in the capital

739
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: gains tax to appease these donors and remained studiously ambiguous

740
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: their words on a tax for the ultra rich. Now

741
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: these are the freakin people the Democrats actually need to

742
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 2: learn how to say no to. Another New York Times

743
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: report includes details about how Kamala's superPAC found that an

744
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: ad on price gouging tested through the roof in terms

745
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 2: of effectiveness, yet it barely saw the light of day.

746
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: Quote.

747
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: Another memo issue days later, pointed out very high performing

748
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: ads that have yet to get a big spent. One

749
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: ad Future Forward said had ranked in the one hundredth percentile,

750
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: meaning it was the most effective, yet it had virtually

751
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: never been aired. So here, everybody, is the ad that

752
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 2: Kamala's donors did not want you to see.

753
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 4: I get it.

754
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 8: The cost of rent, groceries and utilities is too high.

755
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 5: So here's what we're going to do about it.

756
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 4: We will lower.

757
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 8: Housing costs by building more homes and crack down on

758
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 8: landlords we're charging too much. We will lower your food

759
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 8: and grocery bills by going after price gougers or keeping

760
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 8: the cost of everyday goods too high. I'm Kamala Harris

761
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 8: and I approve this message. Because you work hard for

762
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 8: your paycheck, you should get to keep more of it.

763
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 8: As president, I'll make that my top priority.

764
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: The donors, the billionaires, the consultants, the corrupt establishment itself,

765
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: those are the interests that need to be told no,

766
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: that need to be purged wholesale. Any analysis that fails

767
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 2: to make this case is nothing more than a defense

768
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 2: of the Democratic Party status quo and Sager one of

769
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: the things that got a lot of note in.

770
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

771
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

772
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: So as we have of course been discussing, there is

773
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 2: a big battle on for the future of the Democratic

774
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: Party and also to understand how they just such as shillacking.

775
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 2: And we're lucky to be joined this morning by Maurice Mitchell,

776
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: who is the national director for the Working Families Party,

777
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 2: who has many thoughts on all of these topics.

778
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: Great to see you, Maurice, it's good to be here.

779
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: Good to see you, of course, So.

780
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: Just your top line thoughts, what happened and what should

781
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: happen now.

782
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 7: Well, I want to caution everybody there's literally votes still

783
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 7: being counted in certain places not to sort of just

784
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 7: jump into the hot takes. What we're doing is we're

785
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 7: attempting to be reflective and humble. But what we know

786
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 7: is that incumbent parties all across the world right, a

787
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 7: lot of them lost, including the Democratic Party. And to us,

788
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 7: what that means is that working people in this country

789
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 7: and elsewhere are not happy with the political establishment and

790
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 7: the economic establishment, and we need to listen to what

791
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 7: people are saying. So I knocked on hundreds of doors

792
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 7: in North Philly, Atlanta, and what I heard.

793
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you hear at those doors?

794
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 7: I heard a lot of things, but I heard deep

795
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 7: skep deicism about whether or not politics actually mattered in

796
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 7: people's lives, and certainly whether or not the two parties,

797
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 7: the Republican Party and the Democratic Party would do anything

798
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 7: to make a dent on the crisis of affordability that

799
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 7: people are experiencing, the crisis of gun violence that a

800
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 7: lot of people are experiencing, and what I believe folks

801
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 7: need to do. And you know, I'm building the Working

802
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 7: Families Party, But if I was to give free advice

803
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 7: to anybody or the Democratic Party, it would be not

804
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 7: necessarily to try to find easy solutions. I don't think

805
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 7: the solution is in a one or two page memo

806
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 7: that's been written over the past weeks or days. The

807
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 7: solutions are in the people listening, right. So I think

808
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 7: we need to put our hot take sort of impulses

809
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 7: on the backseat and make sure that our listening game

810
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 7: is really strong.

811
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 5: So that's my advice, you know.

812
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 7: And then there's a lot of talk that I think

813
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 7: is obsessed with this left right binary that I think

814
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 7: kind of obscures what I'm hearing. Right, there is a

815
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 7: top down feeling that permeates throughout politics or political identity,

816
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 7: and a lot of people don't have a political identity,

817
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 7: but they feel like somebody somewhere is taking from them,

818
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 7: that somewhere, somehow the system is rigged against them. A

819
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 7: lot of people that feel that way and they're looking

820
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 7: for solutions. I think that there are some people that

821
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 7: voted for Donald Trump for all the horrible reasons that

822
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 7: people might think they would vote for Donald Trump, and

823
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 7: there's some people that just wanted change, and he was

824
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 7: able to articulate that he might be a anti institutional figure.

825
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 5: I think a lot of those folks.

826
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 7: Even now as they see some of his picks, are

827
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 7: realizing that may or may not be true. I think

828
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 7: certainly when he governs, people will see that again. For

829
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 7: the Working Families Party, the thing that we're going to

830
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 7: do is we're going to to obsess And this is

831
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 7: something that we said, not just like after the loss,

832
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 7: we said this in the months before the loss, in

833
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 7: years before the loss. Obsess with the concerns of everyday

834
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 7: working people and tell a story that is both true

835
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 7: in our work and also rhetorically true about who the

836
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 7: villains are.

837
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 5: Right.

838
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 7: So, when people are experiencing this crisis of affordability that

839
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 7: is real in people's lives right, especially around housing, right,

840
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 7: we name names and say who the villains are. And

841
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 7: as political parties and organizations and politicians, it's your job

842
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 7: to say who the heroes are the working people, and

843
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 7: who you're willing to fight for and willing to fight against.

844
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, as I understand, Working Families parties especially

845
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: big in New York. New York is also the single

846
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: largest state that swung to Donald Trump in this election.

847
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: I think some eleven percent swing from twenty twenty towards

848
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: the Republican So if you're thinking about what that looks like,

849
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 3: what does a response to the shifts in Long Island

850
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: and all across New York including actually even in Manhattan

851
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 3: and the Bronx everywhere, urban, rural, etc. There was a

852
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: major increase for Donald Trump. How can you win those

853
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: people back? I mean, eleven percent in a single four

854
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: year period in a blue state is shocking. It's absolutely shocking.

855
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: And New Jersey was number two, which is even crazier.

856
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 7: So I think in our analysis what's required is a

857
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 7: lot of nuance, and it also requires us to actually

858
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 7: look at each state.

859
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 5: So I'm from New York.

860
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 7: I actually grew up in one of the working class

861
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 7: suburbs that you're referring to that swung last election, swung

862
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 7: from red to blue, and in this election actually swung

863
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 7: back right.

864
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 5: So you talk about New York.

865
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 7: But like when we kind of look at the data,

866
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 7: the Working Families Party worked with folks in labor unions

867
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 7: and folks in different organizations over the past two years

868
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 7: in New York, specifically on a project called Battleground New

869
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 7: York that was successful despite those swings. Success in a

870
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 7: number of rational districts to swing from red to blue.

871
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 7: So the thing that I'm curious about in New York,

872
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 7: where that's the top line story in the nation, where

873
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 7: we unfortunately became together but didn't get the outcome.

874
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 5: That we wanted.

875
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 7: What can we learn from the swings that happened in

876
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 7: the neighborhood that I grew up in that I returned

877
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 7: to during COVID that the block that I live on, right,

878
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 7: so there's data points. Or in Connecticut where the Working

879
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 7: Families Party had a great election day, right, interesting.

880
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 5: Right, where many of.

881
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 7: Our working class candidates in purple districts in this election

882
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 7: flip those districts from red to blue.

883
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 4: What can we learn about our describe what kind of races?

884
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 7: So yeah, I mean these are races where our candidates are,

885
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 7: our teachers are, our labor unions are regular working people.

886
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 5: Right.

887
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 7: We believe that there's a formula. It's not like it's

888
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 7: not one plus one equals three. But people who are

889
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 7: from the district who are are people that you could

890
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 7: identify as folks in your community, People like Kendrick Brooks,

891
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 7: who is a by the way, in Philadelphia, is a

892
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 7: WFP only city council person who lives in nice Town,

893
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 7: North Philly, who governs the entire city of Philadelphia, or

894
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 7: Nicholas or Rourke, who have long stories of being advocates

895
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 7: and connected to their communities, could swing people in their

896
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 7: communities on the ground based on their story, based on

897
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 7: their relationships, and based on issues that actually matter in

898
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 7: their lives, not abstractions or you know, at a certain

899
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 7: level on the air. With with presidential candidates and presidential politics,

900
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 7: a lot that could get lost, which is why our

901
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 7: bread and butter is the local local politics. Like we

902
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 7: we endure in this cycle in this election, seven hundred

903
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 7: and fifty candidates, so I know a lot of politics

904
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 7: is especially in a presidential year as the top of

905
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 7: the ticket. In California, we have one hundred WFP aligned

906
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 7: candidate dates I think close to seventy of them won

907
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 7: this cycle. On the municipal level, the thing that that

908
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 7: connects all these candidates are the fact that they're like

909
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 7: regular people.

910
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 5: They're not talking like DC wonks.

911
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 7: They're in the lives of their communities, and on that level,

912
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 7: on the city council level, on the county level, you're

913
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 7: able to like swing people based on the issues that

914
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 7: matter to them, Like, I'll just give an example housing,

915
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 7: which is something I'd come back to over and over again.

916
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 7: So in Philadelphia, for example, we were able to the

917
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 7: Working Families Party, through Kendra Brooks pass eviction diversion, permanent

918
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 7: eviction diversion piece of legislation.

919
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 5: That started in COVID.

920
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 7: We made it permanent and in Philadelphia there's a forty

921
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 7: decrease in evictions, right, that's keeping real families in their homes. Recently,

922
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 7: we also pass through the Working Families Party, a bill

923
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 7: that prevents realtors from using AI and algorithms in order

924
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 7: to artificially increase people's rentals. This is groundbreaking legislation, and

925
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 7: you know, the lobbies are very upset. But because these

926
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 7: are folks that we recruited and are not part of

927
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 7: the political establishment, they're willing to take the fight to

928
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 7: the lobbyist.

929
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 5: Right.

930
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 7: So if I were to give the Democratic Party any notes,

931
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 7: it's like politics are about fights. Who's the Democratic Party

932
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 7: willing to take the fight to? And so I could

933
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 7: tell you who the Working Families Party is willing to

934
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 7: take the fight to. And we have results even in

935
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 7: this election where we came together and we joined the

936
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 7: United Front and we lost at the top of the ticket.

937
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 7: We have a lot of notes about how we might

938
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 7: be able to rebuild on the grassroots level.

939
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 1: So you all are taking stories.

940
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: In the pages of the New York Times, Adam John Wilson,

941
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: who was a chief of staff to John Feder I

942
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: think previously worked for Harry Reid, is blaming interist groups

943
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 2: such as the Working Families Party for pushing Kamala Harris

944
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: too far left.

945
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: They write in that article.

946
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: The same year, coalition of groups including the Sunrise Movement

947
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 2: and the Working Families Party demanded all Democrats are running

948
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: for president embraced decriminalizing border crossings.

949
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: This is with regard to back in twenty twenty.

950
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: You know, what's your response to that, The idea that

951
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: Working Families Party and other sort of left aligned groups

952
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: have polled candidates like Kamala Harris too far left and

953
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 2: put them out of step with the working class.

954
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 7: Well, this was a presidential election where VP Harris's campaign

955
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 7: raised and spent one point five billion dollars. The super

956
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 7: packs associated with her raised and spent much more than

957
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 7: that billions of dollars. Democratic Party operatives, very senior Democratic

958
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 7: Party operatives, led these vehicles and now some of them,

959
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 7: not all of them. Some of them are using to

960
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 7: in the hours and days and weeks after this electoral

961
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 7: loss that they participated in, because we were all part

962
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 7: of it, they're choosing to attack relatively small interest groups.

963
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 7: I think that this might be an opportunity for reflection.

964
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 7: I know that that's what we're doing at the Working

965
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 7: Families Party. We're asking questions, We're curious, We're doing a

966
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 7: lot of listening, especially to working people.

967
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 5: We're in the field right now.

968
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 7: We're having both big calls, like we had over one

969
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 7: hundred thousand person mass call that we did fourty eight

970
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 7: hours after the election. We're also doing deep briefs in

971
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 7: community and we're getting a lot of people coming in

972
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 7: person in those depbriefs. Look, when I was at the

973
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 7: doors and like I got the shoe lever to prove

974
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 7: it right, I not.

975
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 5: Once I heard a lot of things.

976
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 7: Not once did I hear at anybody suggests that what

977
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 7: they were concerned with were some of these some of

978
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 7: the issues in the breathless sort of think pieces. And

979
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 7: it's kind of ironic we're talking about working people, but

980
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 7: the way that some folks are trying to pure trying

981
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 7: to prosecute that argument is in opas in the New

982
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 7: York Times, Right.

983
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: But yeah, but we do kind of have a point, right,

984
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: I mean at the end of the day, I mean,

985
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what the specifics are, but if that's

986
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 3: a position, then you're pushing That was a huge reason

987
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 3: why she lost. I mean, I was in Pennsylvania. I

988
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 3: saw that they and then add play all day long.

989
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 3: I saw immigration play all day long. Maybe in North

990
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 3: Philly it's not the same. Although there were a lot

991
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: of what urban communities in Philadelphia, as I understand it,

992
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 3: that moved to the right Puerto Ricans, namely the most

993
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 3: than immigration probably has something to do with that. So,

994
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think Adam is one hundred percent wrong.

995
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 3: So I think your point is correct. These super packs

996
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: and all these people are full of playing. But I

997
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 3: know if you're pushing candidates to embrace these positions, that's

998
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 3: a problem.

999
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 5: I would never say.

1000
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 7: I would never say anybody that is attempting to fixure

1001
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 7: out the wreckage of this election is one hundred percent

1002
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 7: wrong and that there aren't many factors that might lead

1003
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 7: to it. And I would never argue that a particular

1004
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 7: ad or a particular ad wouldn't be effective or not.

1005
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 7: But I think in some ways that the level of

1006
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 7: analysis is too low. Right Again, like I mentioned at

1007
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 7: the top of this conversation, this is a moment where

1008
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 7: incumbent parties around the world are being rejected by.

1009
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, immigration is a big part of that story too,

1010
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 4: lot of.

1011
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 5: A lot of factors are a big party. You mentioned

1012
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 5: New York.

1013
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think you can't talk about New York without

1014
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 7: talking about the fact that Eric Adams basically ran and

1015
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 7: governed every single day based on the premise that New

1016
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 7: York was a hell hole and that immigrants were somehow

1017
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 7: in a very binary way, taking dollar for dollar from

1018
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 7: everyday people in New York.

1019
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of state re at that point.

1020
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 2: To that point, Kama Harris and the Democratic Party, they

1021
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: basically adopted the Republican frame on immigration. She ran How

1022
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: many times did she talk about prosecuting transnational gangs blah

1023
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 2: blah blah.

1024
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 1: Now you could say, oh, there was an.

1025
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 2: Overhang from twenty twenty blah blah blah, but that overhang

1026
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 2: must have been much more present in twenty twenty when

1027
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 2: Joe Biden was able to win. So while I think

1028
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: that there you know, I've been a critic of like

1029
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: wokeness in the Democratic Party and like the word policing

1030
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 2: and the academic language and whatever, and I think that's fine.

1031
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: But it's very convenient for.

1032
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 2: The people who ran the multi billion dollar super packs

1033
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: to be like, it wasn't our fault, it was their fault.

1034
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: We had nothing to do with it.

1035
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: When she ran the platonic ideal of the centrist Liz Cheney,

1036
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: like anti immigrants campaign that they would want her to run,

1037
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: it's just very convenient to then be like, no, because

1038
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: of something she said on a questionnaire back in twenty twenty.

1039
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: That's the reason that lost that.

1040
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 5: That's my point for better or work.

1041
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 7: She ran the campaign that she wanted to run as

1042
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 7: a as a consensus based sort of big tent Democrat

1043
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 7: that campaigned with Liz Cheney. But I also want to

1044
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 7: I want to also be clear the class de alignment

1045
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 7: that's been taking place, like working people leaving the Democratic Party,

1046
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 7: not all of them one from round going to Donald Trump,

1047
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 7: many of them dropping out. That's many of the people

1048
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 7: that I talk to every day just dropping out of politics. Yeah,

1049
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 7: that's been taking place for a long time. Kamala Harris

1050
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 7: didn't create that phenomenon. Her campaign certainly didn't solve it.

1051
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 7: I don't think anyone campaign could solve it. But here

1052
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 7: we are, and we need to be we need to

1053
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 7: be reflective. But I think a lot of these backwards

1054
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 7: looking takes will have people fight the last battle instead

1055
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 7: of the future battle.

1056
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: Maurice, let me let me ask you specifically about one

1057
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: of the big battles that is going on right now

1058
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: for the direction the Democratic Party takes is about who

1059
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: was going to bed and see chair sort of this

1060
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: you know, important proxy fight over whether there's going to

1061
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: be you know, hey, maybe we need to deliver for

1062
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: working families in the way that a Bertie Sanders imagine,

1063
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: or whether there's going to be more capitulation to the

1064
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: right and more you know, shifts to the right going forward.

1065
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: One of the candidates who has been floated is rama Manuel,

1066
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 2: who was originally Clinton aide, obviously present you know, leading

1067
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 2: up to him during the Obama administration, actually pushed Obama

1068
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: not to do healthcare because he thought it would be

1069
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: you know, to upsetting to the powers that be. David

1070
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 2: Axelrod was promoting him as potential d NC chair.

1071
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

1072
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 6: Here's what I would do if I were if they said, well,

1073
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 6: what should we do? Who should lead the party? I

1074
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 6: would take Ambassador Rama Manuel and I would bring him

1075
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 6: back from Japan and I would appoint him chairman of

1076
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 6: the Democrat National Committee. Because he is the most skillful,

1077
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 6: uh political kind of infighter in the Democratic Party. He's

1078
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 6: been you know, he's been a member of Congress, he's

1079
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 6: been White House Chief of Staff, he's been the mayor

1080
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 6: of Chicago. Now he's been ambassador of Japan, and he

1081
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 6: ran in two thousand and five and six the campaign

1082
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 6: to take back the House when Democrats were trying to

1083
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 6: take back the House of Representatives. He knows how to

1084
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 6: do this, and he would be a presence in you know,

1085
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 6: in the media and so on, fearless about taking on Trump.

1086
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 6: I think that would be a really smart little How

1087
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 6: many people in.

1088
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 2: This room know whore I'm Manual is so in many

1089
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: ways the party still is ram Emmanual's party in terms

1090
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 2: of the type of candidates, the type of messaging that

1091
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: they promote. What do you make of this push to

1092
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: put ram In as DNC chair.

1093
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 7: I mean that is so again, I'm building the Working

1094
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 7: Families Party. If I was to give the Democratic Party

1095
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 7: any advice, I mean, what do I hear there? I

1096
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 7: hear a bunch of elites talking about the concerns of

1097
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 7: their party instead of the concerns of everyday people.

1098
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 5: If you want to come.

1099
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 7: Out of the wreckage of this election, then every single

1100
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 7: thing your party does should reflect an obsession with being

1101
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 7: deeply in the lives of people who are experiencing the

1102
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 7: affordability crisis or experiencing just generally this crisis of legitimacy

1103
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 7: that all the institutions are experiencing, and all the conversations

1104
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 7: you have will reflect that. The choices of the head

1105
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 7: of your party will reflect that we need organizers, We

1106
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 7: need people who are listening to lead us through what

1107
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 7: will be a very challenging four years. I know that's

1108
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 7: how we're thinking about it. And again, I just think

1109
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 7: that these really these elite conversations about.

1110
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 5: What you're going to do for your.

1111
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 7: Institution almost is like you're having the wrong conversation and

1112
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 7: we're on the verge of in this country experiencing something that. Look,

1113
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 7: I don't want to engage in hyperbole. It's hard to

1114
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 7: when you look at when you look at Donald Trump's

1115
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 7: cabinet picks, we could imagine what this is going to

1116
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 7: look like. We need fighting organizations that are willing to

1117
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 7: take the fight aggressively to Donald Trump and MAGA and

1118
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 7: be in the lives of everyday working people. And so

1119
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 7: if the conversation isn't about that, if it's about some

1120
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 7: you know, you know political insider who you know? I mean,

1121
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 7: you know, I talk to people in Chicago who look

1122
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 7: at the results of what happened in Chicago and how

1123
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 7: he left that position. Be curious about what his role

1124
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 7: was in all those positions that were named, and also

1125
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 7: be more curious about what folks are like. I live

1126
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 7: on a block, right, like just a little bio, right.

1127
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 7: I'm not a pundit, right. I grew up as a

1128
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 7: working class person. The reason why I'm here is because

1129
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 7: both of my parents got opportunities in unions. My dad

1130
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 7: was in sanitation at a school district. Eventually he was

1131
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 7: an electrician and got a union job. My mom was

1132
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 7: a union nurse. And I lived on a block that

1133
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 7: was multiracial, a lot of ethnic white folks and immigrants

1134
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 7: and black folks in the suburbs of New York that

1135
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 7: went blue and has slowly become contested politically. There is

1136
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 7: a huge Trump flag on that block now on the corner,

1137
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 7: something I couldn't have imagined only a few years ago.

1138
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 7: I returned back to that community during COVID. If you're

1139
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 7: not obsessed with what will make my parents, who are

1140
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 7: retired folks who put their lives on the line to

1141
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 7: make sure that the trains ran on time and that

1142
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 7: people got the care that they needed needed, If you

1143
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 7: don't put your focus on them, and you put your

1144
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 7: focus on who the chair of the Democratic Party would

1145
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 7: be or what this relatively privileged Democratic Party operative says

1146
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 7: in the New York Times, you've lost the plot and

1147
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 7: we need fighting, a fighting movement that will be obsessed

1148
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 7: with putting at the center people like my family and

1149
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 7: people like my neighbors.

1150
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: Maurice, thank you so much for coming in this morning.

1151
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: It's good to see you.

1152
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 4: Thanks, Maurice, appreciate it.

1153
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1154
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 4: Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you.

1155
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 3: Just programming. Note, I'm gonna be in Japan. I'm really

1156
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 3: excited for it. Until for a while. Emily will be

1157
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 3: in for me. Delayed honeymoon. Okay, don't get mad at me.

1158
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 3: I actually put it off, which his wife was not

1159
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 3: very happy about, but certain certain sacrifices had to be

1160
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 3: made for the Breaking Points audience until after the election.

1161
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: I'm excited to go, but I am going to miss

1162
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 3: you guys all day.

1163
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna miss out on you here. I'm sure

1164
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 2: when you get back there'll be all sorts.

1165
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 3: Of I'm sure I'm gonna miss the biggest possible news event.

1166
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 4: That's just my lock.

1167
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: Emily, have you filling in of course for Asagrn. She

1168
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 2: always says, a great job to you, So enjoy your trip.

1169
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: Thank you, and for all of you guys. I will

1170
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: see you back your Thursday. Emily and Ryan will be

1171
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 2: here tomorrow, so see you again soon.