Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime m
Speaker 1: Welcome back to All the Smoke, coming to you live
Speaker 1: from l A Editions. Jack see you shining with the
Speaker 1: new merch All the Smoke Dot Store. If you want
Speaker 1: to look good, go get yourself. It's out there waiting
Speaker 1: for your baby. Man special guests today. Someone we really
Speaker 1: looked up to growing up, a really little big Homi
Speaker 1: to the real original Enforcer in the NBA book out now,
Speaker 1: The Last Enforcer. Welcome to the show, Charles Oakley Man. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the book. The title, Yeah, the books are.
Speaker 1: The titles are a lot. The books are a lot more.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of stories, just stuff from growing up.
Speaker 1: Just some stuff that people you know can really relate to,
Speaker 1: like growing up stories. Then people who watched the ball
Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, people who've been a fan
Speaker 1: of mine, My consistency over my career, what I stand
Speaker 1: for when I do all this in this book and
Speaker 1: a lot more. Does this book talk about the time
Speaker 1: in Chicago? Talk about Chicago? Yeah, I played with Mike
Speaker 1: for four years and some of the stuff Mike talk
Speaker 1: about in the Last Dance some some of the stuff,
Speaker 1: but not a lot of that in the book. But
Speaker 1: we had the same area with a lot of stuff,
Speaker 1: which when the lead was really bad, when a lot
Speaker 1: of guys were disappearing before games, before shooting around. But
Speaker 1: you know, I go and talk about a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff in the book too. Yeah you said, I can't
Speaker 1: remember every rebound I grabbed, but I do have a story,
Speaker 1: a true story just about every punch of slapping in
Speaker 1: your resume. You can remember all that stuff. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think for me and Matt, like we
Speaker 1: look at that all that stuff different, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, because at times, you know, our passion what
Speaker 1: forces us to be that person sometimes. So we understood
Speaker 1: with the book coming out, what do you expect people
Speaker 1: to get from it? And do you expect them to
Speaker 1: see a different side of you? Um? It definitely always
Speaker 1: something they don't know about you, And it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of that in the book. But I'm talking
Speaker 1: about basketball in the way that a lot of people
Speaker 1: said they wish the basketball we played today the whole
Speaker 1: guy's account ball. Um know what you're doing the court, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, game situation and I think that in the
Speaker 1: game today you watch basketball is just everybody like ah,
Speaker 1: and that's why you see so much bad talent on
Speaker 1: the floor and maybe a reason why the Lakers are
Speaker 1: struggling because it seems like to me they don't nobody
Speaker 1: know the identity but Lebron and that's the head coach.
Speaker 1: You know, that's what you fortell a guy first thing,
Speaker 1: training camp. Yeah, you do this. You do this as
Speaker 1: why as a role the time was asking guys play
Speaker 1: three minutes together efficiencies. But it's a lot of sloppy
Speaker 1: basketball now and I agree with you to coach it
Speaker 1: and if that in the Bud from the jump with
Speaker 1: this book, a lot of people don't know during the
Speaker 1: George Flown situation, you came down and supported me down
Speaker 1: to my mazingly supported me. You fed, you cooked for
Speaker 1: us every day. And you talk about a lot of
Speaker 1: this stuff in the book, what you're being there, talk
Speaker 1: about the living. Let the people know, you know that
Speaker 1: she was with me the whole experience in the time
Speaker 1: we had down there. Experience with having to George Floyd
Speaker 1: happened to me when I was in high school. I
Speaker 1: got stories in the book like I was coming home
Speaker 1: for school. Most time I had to kissed two buses.
Speaker 1: And one time I was I was catching two bus
Speaker 1: was getting dark and one bus was coming late. So
Speaker 1: I tried to walk home, you know, soether waiting in
Speaker 1: the bus stop and I was walking home. Police grabb me,
Speaker 1: slam me some about what the drugs that I had
Speaker 1: a backpack, like what the drugs? Threw me in the car,
Speaker 1: rolling around for five hours. Thenybody know I was sixteen
Speaker 1: about I knew what I was at. But when the
Speaker 1: George Floyd thing happened and the way it happened, and
Speaker 1: just it's just shocked. You know, Shot told me the
Speaker 1: people that everybody tried to come together because you know,
Speaker 1: seeing that happen, and guy got a knee on this guy,
Speaker 1: he told him I can't breathe, and you still stand
Speaker 1: on top of him. I mean, they made everybody want
Speaker 1: to be family. Bring you know, let's stop this maddness.
Speaker 1: Seeing that and this guy just act like, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to smoke a cigarette and you want to
Speaker 1: He like, I got all day to do this, So
Speaker 1: it was an embarrassing But to come to his rescue,
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody came to his rescue. But when you
Speaker 1: called me like, oh, I'm there, big brod wheel. Um,
Speaker 1: it was just sad to see that, and um, what
Speaker 1: do you do his family? You know, I got to
Speaker 1: be more of the family because you know, like family
Speaker 1: came around this when families should come together, and they
Speaker 1: came together in a good way. And being in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: being in Houston and come into the ride, you know,
Speaker 1: and just seeing everybody just we for George, We for George,
Speaker 1: And that just put some of my chest man like crazy.
Speaker 1: Speaking of that. Obviously you were there with Jack for
Speaker 1: a lot of it, But talk to me about how
Speaker 1: proud you are about Jack, because when it's all said
Speaker 1: and done, it's the biggest protests in the history of
Speaker 1: the world. Oh yeah, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: it shook the entire world and and and Jack was
Speaker 1: at the forefront, but you were right behind him. Well,
Speaker 1: to see him step up with number one was a blessing.
Speaker 1: And that's that's what friends are. You know, everybody said
Speaker 1: I got the best friend, best friend. Jack was best
Speaker 1: friend I mean every everything, uncle and dad because he
Speaker 1: took the responsibility with his kids, his girlfriend and he
Speaker 1: kept the family at a hole. And when I see
Speaker 1: just I mean just seeing kept moving to press everybody
Speaker 1: with the question Jack. But Jack, they letting none of
Speaker 1: that disturbed what he was trying to do. He was
Speaker 1: trying to bring a family clothes together because they lost
Speaker 1: a close one. And I take my head off to Jack.
Speaker 1: You know, like I said, was you know I coached
Speaker 1: me in the Big Three. Uh you know we then
Speaker 1: when the chip he come back, when the ship. But
Speaker 1: this man that did so much for so many different people.
Speaker 1: Because when you bring someone together, people watching some people
Speaker 1: be negative, some positive. But he bunging in a good way.
Speaker 1: And that you know what he's doing now. The shows
Speaker 1: just still pushing the needle for is trying to bring
Speaker 1: people together. And some people do stuff they'll stopped. They
Speaker 1: do it for the press. He didn't do it for
Speaker 1: the press. Did it for the heart. That was your brother.
Speaker 1: It's real born and raised Cleveland. Talked to us about Cleveland.
Speaker 1: It was it was, it was you know it was
Speaker 1: a little rugged. Um you know still family UHAMI family
Speaker 1: six of us h But now you know my family
Speaker 1: had a decent name in Cleveland. But they're like said,
Speaker 1: it was the streets was hot then you know, drugs
Speaker 1: all time high. Everybody getting money. Um, you know, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't crazy like it is now. You know, but
Speaker 1: everybody was getting money. You know, they got along. But
Speaker 1: now that people getting money, they don't get along. The
Speaker 1: air was strong. But you know, like I said, it
Speaker 1: was family, a lot of cousins and stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: I know, his kids growing up like you. But a
Speaker 1: kid in the at ground seeing a lot of things happen,
Speaker 1: you know, crap games getting robbed. I wasn't play ground.
Speaker 1: One day, just sue and I see this guy without
Speaker 1: the crap game. I'm like, I'm looking. I'm thirteen, like
Speaker 1: six as on Friday get their checks come in, you know,
Speaker 1: post up thing and forty or something. This guy rubbed
Speaker 1: the crap game with a switch people. So I leave there,
Speaker 1: go back to my brother. Said they need nothing to
Speaker 1: do that, they forget it. But now it was just funny.
Speaker 1: It was stuff like that happened. A lot of it
Speaker 1: was a lot of guys getting stuck up. But they
Speaker 1: you know, they knew that a certain guy stick you up.
Speaker 1: Just give it to him. Yeah, they don't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, they that smoke. When did uh sports come
Speaker 1: into your life? In particular basketball? Um, I think I
Speaker 1: played football first, and I'm playing I was playing pee weeeball,
Speaker 1: so they put you I was playing defense. But you
Speaker 1: know from that growing up, I was playing football. I
Speaker 1: didn't play basketball until it really got to like junior high,
Speaker 1: but I was playing in the park. But I was
Speaker 1: playing ogan outs football, so I was better than football
Speaker 1: than basketball. And um so I got to high school,
Speaker 1: I played both and I just kept you know going.
Speaker 1: It was a good thing I did because I was
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of stuff going on. I
Speaker 1: mean it was just you know, drugs and people just
Speaker 1: having fun. But uh, I got to John hey On
Speaker 1: Sony Harry was a football coach and said, you know,
Speaker 1: you can play both sports. So I played both of them,
Speaker 1: and uh, I think that you know, I got the
Speaker 1: time I get to be a senior, I was still
Speaker 1: good in both. Um, you know, we win stuff in
Speaker 1: the semigone stakes and down stakes. We're having them big
Speaker 1: five stars and stuff. We think three stars. But it
Speaker 1: was fun though. I got a chance and you know,
Speaker 1: buying without other guys, and I think on four guys
Speaker 1: from my high school team made it. You know NFL.
Speaker 1: You know, oh Wall, where do you attribute your obviously
Speaker 1: your physical toughness, but your mental toughness as well. I
Speaker 1: get that for my grandfather. He was a guy that
Speaker 1: no nonsense. Is one of them guys that you know,
Speaker 1: you get at four o'clock in the on him and
Speaker 1: what he did before he went to work, you into
Speaker 1: the field, come backs, walked two miles to work. He
Speaker 1: was He did it for so many years. And you
Speaker 1: know that he was the only guy. When he got
Speaker 1: a car, he was the guy in town. So he
Speaker 1: took it out of the town, took it by the church.
Speaker 1: He goes to town three or full time Saturday morning,
Speaker 1: Sunday school for you know. So I was watching him,
Speaker 1: so I was in all his full self. I was
Speaker 1: just like, wow, this man he's everything. You know up
Speaker 1: the road about the full miles three miles. He got
Speaker 1: a wagon you go to feed the cows for the
Speaker 1: other guys who got the white fence. And so he
Speaker 1: was as everything and he was hummer and uh. He
Speaker 1: raised eight kids, and you know there was my aunts
Speaker 1: and uncles and it was he was just great, great,
Speaker 1: great great. He was great. He was in Cleveland as well.
Speaker 1: Now it's Alabama, Alabama, okay, yeah, yeah, six eight power
Speaker 1: for the Virginia Union University Small Division two named the
Speaker 1: Division two Player of the Year. Over your career culminated
Speaker 1: over twenty three points six team Hunter rebounds. What was
Speaker 1: your college experience like? It was? It was, you know,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to leave Cleveland because it was that
Speaker 1: I knew because all of my friends he was getting high,
Speaker 1: going to jail, stealing clothes. You know, it was it was,
Speaker 1: you know it boost Yeah, so I asked something, my guy,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about them, you know, they know. So
Speaker 1: they were these guys they didn't like set maybe grade.
Speaker 1: They know, I think that's girls. I mean the stores
Speaker 1: when they like higbees and make company. So they are
Speaker 1: going the store, stay all night, backing up stuff. They
Speaker 1: dressed like the janitors, so when the janitor come work
Speaker 1: next morning, he think it's another guy, you know, working
Speaker 1: at y'all him. So they have the same kind of
Speaker 1: uniform on. But they had about four or five backs
Speaker 1: all the clothes in the store. So it was fun
Speaker 1: just you know, so basically when these guys get back
Speaker 1: on the street, they're selling everything for a third right,
Speaker 1: So you know, it was just it was just crazy
Speaker 1: that to see that these guys were doing that, but
Speaker 1: it was fun. Um, it was a lot of fun
Speaker 1: on up and just you know, I'm just glad, you know,
Speaker 1: I had a chance. Didn't get to know trouble trouble
Speaker 1: like a lot of my guys did. A lot of
Speaker 1: them got in trouble and the like how do you escape?
Speaker 1: I just always trying to say I was with him,
Speaker 1: but not when he was doing bad. Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 1: Then one thing happened when I got in the lead.
Speaker 1: I came home and I read a call from one
Speaker 1: of them. So they went to them all and the
Speaker 1: end up they were stilling stuff and some kind of ways.
Speaker 1: Time I got to licenselate them and they went they
Speaker 1: called in and they went to the rented places, came
Speaker 1: back to me. So they came to me, Hey, they
Speaker 1: was disrespecting me. So you know, I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: they called me, I wasn't there. They said, oh man,
Speaker 1: we had this thing. We you know, we gotta wait. No,
Speaker 1: you didn't get away. They got me. It was just
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff like that, a lot of fighting
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. It was, it was it was kind
Speaker 1: of ruggers. When did you kind of start becoming like
Speaker 1: that enforcement mentality you grew up with, but a lot
Speaker 1: of fights as a youngster. Youngster in college. In college
Speaker 1: guy you playing football, they call him baby bull and
Speaker 1: he was always picking with me, taking my hat out,
Speaker 1: put his finger in my ear. You know. One day
Speaker 1: was going to lunch Henderson Center. That would call it
Speaker 1: school and go to Henderson and then you go lunch
Speaker 1: up stale. So one day he I just had enough.
Speaker 1: He was he was a big guy. I just picked
Speaker 1: him up and just slammed his ass. Stepped over there.
Speaker 1: Motherfucking keep working with me. See what's gonna happen? Every
Speaker 1: time I say you, I'm gonna do this ship baby,
Speaker 1: so the words about campus. Every time he saw me,
Speaker 1: he went out the way like that movie and uh
Speaker 1: the Bronx sale. Yeah, yeah, you go out the way.
Speaker 1: Bullies get bullies one Yeah. How was your predraft workouts?
Speaker 1: Jared Cross was eager to draft you. How was your
Speaker 1: pre pre cret It was the workout was easy because
Speaker 1: I think it. I was always in shape. I wasn't
Speaker 1: affiliated some guys, but for us that you know, I
Speaker 1: passed all the tests and then I played in the
Speaker 1: East West All Star Game Hawaii Classic. So my skill
Speaker 1: level I was playing against like all the Division one guy,
Speaker 1: the top ten fifteen guys. But my thing was I
Speaker 1: was fundamental sound, so I knew how to rebound, blockout, pass,
Speaker 1: you know whatever. So all my skill that was it
Speaker 1: was okay for me, helped me against them because them
Speaker 1: guys were you know, jumper jumpers at playing a lot
Speaker 1: of them all star games. Dean Smith for the coach
Speaker 1: one time. So Dean Smith told guys, we're gonna pass
Speaker 1: the ball twice and shoot, and you know, so we
Speaker 1: had one practice. You know, everybody just come together, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody and play ball. Shouldn't understand something, but they didn't.
Speaker 1: So we get in the game. Guy was passing once
Speaker 1: and shoot. So every time you passed one and he
Speaker 1: was just burn. I'm like, they didn't get it, he said,
Speaker 1: passed the whites didn't shoot. They were passing one time,
Speaker 1: the next that was shooting. So it was just fun
Speaker 1: just to see other guys on the level that overlooked
Speaker 1: with the coase eighty five. For get drafted in the
Speaker 1: first round. You technically when we went to the calves
Speaker 1: but then got traded to your rights to the bulls.
Speaker 1: How did that happen? Well, they had called I didn't
Speaker 1: go to the draft nub one because they said you
Speaker 1: probably go second or fourth round. And I found out
Speaker 1: I went top teen, number nine. So they so to
Speaker 1: Cleveland and Chicago had talked. I guess they think I
Speaker 1: was gonna make it to the leven. So they said
Speaker 1: we'll trade picks. And where were you doing the draft?
Speaker 1: I was at my coach house in Virginia. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I stayed there and you know, they called us
Speaker 1: on the phone and you know, said it could be
Speaker 1: a swap. So I said, cool with me. I mean,
Speaker 1: you said a fourth round going top teen, I ain't
Speaker 1: got I ain't like with nobody, send me want to
Speaker 1: go right? But now it was good. Uh you know,
Speaker 1: once you get drafted called experim, you go to that
Speaker 1: city and you know, Mike was there, so you know, um,
Speaker 1: but it was fun. You know. I went in there
Speaker 1: like I was like it was still like I'm still Algar.
Speaker 1: You know, it was sweet powerfulward in front of me.
Speaker 1: So I had to work my way in the ladder.
Speaker 1: I was you know, I was able to the whist
Speaker 1: I'm still going that. I'm just showing I'm determined I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be here. So it was that. How was it
Speaker 1: transition into the winter city. I was from Cleveland, so
Speaker 1: base was just I mean, I'm used to the cold.
Speaker 1: I'm used to people went make CODs and girls wearing
Speaker 1: high issues and the street, you know. I mean it's
Speaker 1: more Chicago got more you know, games in Cleveland, but
Speaker 1: no Cleveland with him now. But I was cool. I mean,
Speaker 1: I had a big family in Chicago, so I was moving.
Speaker 1: I was moving around. Not just go on the West side,
Speaker 1: get my hair cut south side. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: price has coming half for like thirty years just passed already,
Speaker 1: you know, the rest in peace. But it was right
Speaker 1: in the heart of the Chicago West Side. And I
Speaker 1: met a lot of guys who in the summertime, you know,
Speaker 1: they have summer leagues, playing the summerleague. Get to know
Speaker 1: the guys in the city, and you know, I'm picked
Speaker 1: up some decent friends over the time, and guys that
Speaker 1: you know in the city who you know, no nowhere
Speaker 1: to go, were not to go. But I ain't had
Speaker 1: no album, you know. Then once Mike we were on
Speaker 1: this you know, go places. And later on when Mike
Speaker 1: got the center, you know, when Tim Groban started playing ball,
Speaker 1: and then everybody saw coming to watching, you know, play
Speaker 1: in the summertime. It's just it's got to be a
Speaker 1: family thing. Who are your vets? You know you was on?
Speaker 1: I know George Gerban was there, gir came late. So
Speaker 1: basically was it was that time. And when I came
Speaker 1: to the league, that guys was you know opened like
Speaker 1: a door. It was in and out. Um, Mike was there, Uh,
Speaker 1: Dave Cuisine was there, Cynda Green Atlanta Warwris Quinn daily,
Speaker 1: we had yeah do wananam So this guy was it
Speaker 1: was old Mike a couple of years ago. So it
Speaker 1: really said we had no vet sets. And then Gerbin
Speaker 1: came when Jordan got hurt my rookie year. But he
Speaker 1: was you know ice man, you know, I mean I
Speaker 1: still hanging out, you know as you go to the
Speaker 1: house set on the points. Ice was real cool, just
Speaker 1: you know, like laid back. What was your welcome to
Speaker 1: the end be a moment like when you first get
Speaker 1: to them. Then what was the moment when you're like, damn,
Speaker 1: I'm in NBA. Yeah, I'm um, I forgot when they're
Speaker 1: draft me. But so at the moment, U was when
Speaker 1: one day that we had a game up in Milwaukee
Speaker 1: preseason game. So you know the best, you know, Rookie's
Speaker 1: gotta come early, you know. Yeah, I'm always earlier. But
Speaker 1: something something this day, I was late. So I get
Speaker 1: there and uh, I don't go in the first but
Speaker 1: I'm on the second bus with the guy you know,
Speaker 1: been there two or three years. What you're doing? Said,
Speaker 1: I missed the bus. Oh you missed the bus. Okay.
Speaker 1: So we get to the rental, right, so I go
Speaker 1: change right quick. So I'm gonna get taped, you know,
Speaker 1: because you have to get tape back there. And then
Speaker 1: I was getting taped the bed like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you gotta get up, rook I said, okay, rook what
Speaker 1: do you mean. I thought, I'm gonna Rookie, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get taped. No, you can't get taped. So I
Speaker 1: take all the tape and throw it in the guy.
Speaker 1: But I say, nobody ain't no getting taped. You got
Speaker 1: moving off the table, I said, moving off to the table.
Speaker 1: Oh man, they still laughing. They give me you all right? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was it like in though? It was it was
Speaker 1: like you know, everybody went for about the head. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like you know, shaking picking nobody up and let's
Speaker 1: go eat other one. Now. It was gonna that's one
Speaker 1: thing they did that everybody went out to one another.
Speaker 1: You couldn't hide, yeah, because they like said, miss Mack,
Speaker 1: They're going to you. You have to play. It was heavy,
Speaker 1: heavy drugs back then. I remember David Stern so think
Speaker 1: it was too black and too too many drugs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: David Stern, Yeah, it was. It was like Oakland, that
Speaker 1: was it was. It was that there because that's when
Speaker 1: it was the all time hide on it and he
Speaker 1: wasn't just in um Chicago, New York. You know, Oakland
Speaker 1: was bad. That Mary was bad. It was like a
Speaker 1: flea market. But yeah, they cleaned it up though, but
Speaker 1: you know a lot of guys, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: some guys might making the shoot around, but they ain't
Speaker 1: making it the game. He went to see the second girlfriend.
Speaker 1: That thing out, Yeah, my girl. The second girl then
Speaker 1: asked this question about about Iceman. This is the story
Speaker 1: that I heard a lot. You ever heard a story
Speaker 1: about Iceman showing up to the game, like pulling up
Speaker 1: to the game and meet like missing warming and getting
Speaker 1: party and leaving straight from the game to his car.
Speaker 1: Did you hear that story. Uh and uh Chicago, I know,
Speaker 1: well Chicago he had thirty four a half time and
Speaker 1: then on the score maybe four second. I don't know
Speaker 1: about the forty. I mean you could have happened, because
Speaker 1: a lot of it happened back then. Yeah, real, it was.
Speaker 1: It was. It was funny to me because you know,
Speaker 1: like Mike said, a lot of stuff in the last
Speaker 1: day and they're about like, well Mike telling, ain't telling.
Speaker 1: I mean I've seen a lot of it. Two mean
Speaker 1: three or fold dealers at the hotel, like you know,
Speaker 1: you had a choice. So basically a lot of guy
Speaker 1: was doing for free because they were testing. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it was slick on the PA half. Yeah, he kept
Speaker 1: little their money. Yea. That's initial thoughts on m J.
Speaker 1: And how did you guys build your friendship that's still
Speaker 1: lasted today? I guess, you know, like I said, when
Speaker 1: I got there and then and just when the season started,
Speaker 1: just might work having and you know, seeing that I
Speaker 1: was dedicated. I didn't take nothing for granted. Um, always
Speaker 1: on point. You know, when you're young, they're gonna test
Speaker 1: you and knowing the plays, you know, staying after work
Speaker 1: and you work in So I was always about work.
Speaker 1: So when somebody seen you work, I mean in game.
Speaker 1: Then I didn't play a lot early, but when I
Speaker 1: got in, I knew how to play. We about outlet
Speaker 1: set picks, you know. Just I wasn't looking for him
Speaker 1: to give me nothing. I was just working. But just
Speaker 1: we just got cool. Probably got more cool because we
Speaker 1: were somewhere and MJ and the guy got into it,
Speaker 1: like I mean, it was like it was real MASSI.
Speaker 1: So it was about a bill. So they got told him,
Speaker 1: you just rookie did than that when't you pick the
Speaker 1: check up, you get a check to that you're picking up,
Speaker 1: so they that is that. So it was like a
Speaker 1: lot of tensions. So they almost got in the fight,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, I like, you know, many'all need
Speaker 1: to cut it out this and that. Man, You're like
Speaker 1: that he could have check you've been leaving for me.
Speaker 1: So it was a lot of that, and you know,
Speaker 1: they got all of them guys out of there and
Speaker 1: took two or three years, but then he got to
Speaker 1: start running the team his way, and you see what happened.
Speaker 1: M J dropped sixty three in the playoffs. First the Celtics.
Speaker 1: What was that game like? Just talking about It was
Speaker 1: crazy because that was when I think he came back
Speaker 1: from the surgeon and they didn't want him to play.
Speaker 1: They wanted restricting, and Jason, I'm a ballplayer, I'm playing
Speaker 1: and I'm on the cool. I want to play my
Speaker 1: thirty seven minutes. So that's when Gerban didn't play that much.
Speaker 1: But it was just amazing. He was just he was fresh.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know he he ain't played with twenty games,
Speaker 1: but I didn't played the eighty two, so nobody that's crazy.
Speaker 1: And George Gerban was on the bench when the NJ sixth.
Speaker 1: Nobody didn't. I didn't know that he was bench, but
Speaker 1: he was in another world. You know. We lost, but
Speaker 1: he was. He put a show on he flopping and stuffing.
Speaker 1: Uh tonight, I think I witness Jesus on the basketball. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was tough plan because Boston they got every cold. Man,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. And the floor it's bad. Rephrase that me
Speaker 1: to cut you out. God in the basketball uniform. Yeah,
Speaker 1: basketball shoes guard the basketball in Boston. On the court,
Speaker 1: so DJ so he not a guyt you to the
Speaker 1: dead spot every time you got you and get to
Speaker 1: steal and go down court. Got about three then you
Speaker 1: had the old floor and DJ knew how to turn
Speaker 1: the guard and the next thing you know, because he
Speaker 1: turned it and tried to ball and come up. But
Speaker 1: that's the old parquet floe. When you're playing Boston in
Speaker 1: the one time they got the wind's open, you know,
Speaker 1: already cold, it's already about thirty degrees. They make like
Speaker 1: zero degree. It's like it was like they did everything
Speaker 1: they could. You know, they have advantage. And then so
Speaker 1: you already got advantage. You got Bird Cavic, Kelle or
Speaker 1: Pears and DJ like what and you got rid of
Speaker 1: all back looking down. So it was crazy, but it
Speaker 1: was you know, the fans back then like they're not um.
Speaker 1: They was like, you know, they saw good basketball. I
Speaker 1: mean they can, you know they can. Like I don't
Speaker 1: know what the fans when they go to the game
Speaker 1: now when they think about basketball as you know, just
Speaker 1: I don't think they go to watch the games. I
Speaker 1: think they go just to see who had the game
Speaker 1: and take pictures. They walked past, you know, the bench
Speaker 1: and taking picture with the playoffs now you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, because it's just you know, the teams that
Speaker 1: you don't see that consistency and what they do on
Speaker 1: the night. You know, one night they looked about thirty
Speaker 1: win about twin you know, it's crazy. You know, you
Speaker 1: can say the games came a long way because back
Speaker 1: then they used to open the one that's in the
Speaker 1: RNA's to keep the floor from sweating because of the ice.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Now they ain't got but
Speaker 1: you don't know if you know, back then that used
Speaker 1: to used to walking to Jim and freezing in there
Speaker 1: and just slippy all over the place. You've always been cold.
Speaker 1: I mean it's cold outside and they got ice on
Speaker 1: the bottom like hockey. I mean, it's just crazy. Some
Speaker 1: of these arena but then most of them, you know,
Speaker 1: got new ones now so the day. But how did
Speaker 1: the nickname oak Tree come about? It? What did it mean?
Speaker 1: I guess some of my playoffs just you know, it
Speaker 1: took off, you know oak Tree. You know, so it
Speaker 1: just you know, maybe a half of names the oak
Speaker 1: Tree and you know there's the oak and they couldn't
Speaker 1: back you down. Know when shot came back to me,
Speaker 1: then yeah, yeah, they come back down. But no, it
Speaker 1: was just you know, I just like playing a good shock.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a big guy. But when you're a
Speaker 1: big guy like that, one thing, you don't want to
Speaker 1: get too close to him. You always want to keep
Speaker 1: your balance because you know, shot want to feel your spin.
Speaker 1: I see him do that move so many times, just
Speaker 1: spinning dunk on everybody. I told him, you'll never don't
Speaker 1: go I'm gonnahitching the head. That kind of leads into
Speaker 1: my next situation. Uh, you know this is something I
Speaker 1: did that my career when I, you know, play with stars.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know you you fun with the star.
Speaker 1: You funk with me, and that was kind of your
Speaker 1: thing with m J. How did you know? How was
Speaker 1: that on a nightly basis? Because he used to take
Speaker 1: a beating? Yeah he didn't take a beating when I
Speaker 1: was really yeah, you was going, yeah, yeah, it's an yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: put them in the bag. I'll fight all of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but you got to reiterate that that was the truck.
Speaker 1: Start doing that after they know what it was. But
Speaker 1: then m J we just bonding and just like we
Speaker 1: started going everywhere together on the road trip, he'd arrived
Speaker 1: with me the most time I arrived with him. Uh.
Speaker 1: They stay right in the corner for me. For my
Speaker 1: first two or three years, Um go with how to
Speaker 1: play ping pong poo spades. Uh, you know, we just
Speaker 1: you know, we needed a lot out on sometime at nighttime.
Speaker 1: Him a bitchar didn't go raising them down Willow. They
Speaker 1: alway we hung with the Bears guys and they want
Speaker 1: a Super Bowl five. But besides that, we just we
Speaker 1: just have fun. You know, I wasn't cooking like I was,
Speaker 1: but my cooking started picking up, you know. So, but
Speaker 1: we ate a lot of McDonald's back then, m J
Speaker 1: A McDonald's for every morning, for breakfast every morning, McDonald's
Speaker 1: like sin if it works right. And before game he
Speaker 1: eats steak before every game, A steak steak before every game. Damn.
Speaker 1: That's happy boss. Your second year, Uh lead the team
Speaker 1: in rebounding and second and scoring. Um as you continue
Speaker 1: to build your your game and your chemistry. Um. Later
Speaker 1: Doug Collins comes along as coach. How was that situation? Well,
Speaker 1: Doug the one traded me. Uh, Doug. Doug is a
Speaker 1: different kind of coach. You know. He liked the wine,
Speaker 1: you know, um, he he just he was just different.
Speaker 1: I guess one time, Okay, we had a game. It's
Speaker 1: on Christmas Day, Brad sellers. So we had a meeting like, okay,
Speaker 1: we're in New York. So after game, everybody go their
Speaker 1: own way, so you know we're going over time and lose.
Speaker 1: Get back into the locker room. Dog said, everybody on
Speaker 1: the butt. Everybody back on the bus going back to Chicago.
Speaker 1: I'm liked, you just told everybody going there ONNG. Wait
Speaker 1: now we're on the bus going back to Chicago. So
Speaker 1: everybody get on the bus, go by to Chicago. We
Speaker 1: get the day off the next the next practice, no,
Speaker 1: I call it team me, like, you're sucking wrong. You
Speaker 1: shouldn't have told nobody you can go their separate ways,
Speaker 1: you know, man up. And that's when the team started
Speaker 1: going with split up a little bit. Um m. Jaden
Speaker 1: said nothing, but I'm like, hey, you shouldn't have said it.
Speaker 1: You're wrong. So I get traded the next year is
Speaker 1: but I always always do it for my teammate, no
Speaker 1: matter what I mean, trade me and whatever I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm not that bad. Somebody gonna pick me up and
Speaker 1: even to rount up whatever I mean. You do something wrong,
Speaker 1: if the teammate wrong, I can't help you. When you're right,
Speaker 1: I got you one thousand, you know, two thousand because
Speaker 1: because don't make a statement that you can't little too,
Speaker 1: that's bad for the team eight or seven A y'all
Speaker 1: get hards, Grand Scott. It I used feeling like how
Speaker 1: the new addition to the team was. I liked the horse,
Speaker 1: Grand Scott. We started calling them Salt and pepper. Had
Speaker 1: to have being black one had a white one. So
Speaker 1: they did everything together with the bath room together. So
Speaker 1: we so we got them. So it be against me
Speaker 1: and Mike Brown against all the guards and two guards.
Speaker 1: So Mike Brown with George Washington and he played with
Speaker 1: the Bulls maybe two or three years. He was sixteen,
Speaker 1: about two eight, them six nine, about two six or so,
Speaker 1: we should go to the hotel room, have team m
Speaker 1: J get this week. We uhoul to go tell I
Speaker 1: mean we tell we probably to about a least thirty
Speaker 1: the hotel rooms because all the little guys fighting us
Speaker 1: so like just fighting in the room around just like
Speaker 1: we'll sign up basketball leaving and we're going to the
Speaker 1: next city, m J. So we started getting them in
Speaker 1: the hotel, like I said, one to go out and
Speaker 1: we see him you know walking well, duck down, beat
Speaker 1: him up. You know, we just beat him up. It was.
Speaker 1: We just had a lot of fun like that. But
Speaker 1: there was Howards and Scott was good guys. Like said,
Speaker 1: they built from there. I mean them two pieces was
Speaker 1: you know, part the whole Brandon for winning them six
Speaker 1: champion you know three and three special horse guy three
Speaker 1: and Scotty got six. But I'm saying Horse was a
Speaker 1: guy who can play the four and five and you
Speaker 1: know mid Rain, good athlete from Clipston. Then and then Scott,
Speaker 1: you know, like I saying, he's a you know, like
Speaker 1: a Lebron type of playoffs but don't have much of
Speaker 1: the office of Lebron, but he can do a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, we can play full position, get about in bold,
Speaker 1: you know. You know, so when you got a guy
Speaker 1: like that, then they had Ron Harper came along. Guy
Speaker 1: can play wanted to you know, that was the thing.
Speaker 1: They had a lot of length on other playoffs. They
Speaker 1: had seting put us behind him. Um. But you know
Speaker 1: it was when I got traded. You know, they kept building.
Speaker 1: But it was fun and playing with them guys. I
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun. I got a funny story
Speaker 1: around quick about old We're playing in Charlotte, Oka's assistant
Speaker 1: coach at Charlotte, right, and uh, we had just lost.
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm I come, I'm cutting like olden him,
Speaker 1: something from the old school. I already know after you lose,
Speaker 1: I ain't no laughing on the bus. You know. We
Speaker 1: was like that and Golden State we got on the rick,
Speaker 1: so I had already already my side. I played with
Speaker 1: Steve Smith and Kevin with us and Dave Robinson, so
Speaker 1: I was taught that as a youngster, I don't given
Speaker 1: what you got going on. We lose, ain't no laughing
Speaker 1: and giggling on the bus, right, So I got DJ
Speaker 1: Augustine and D and D Brown on my team, and
Speaker 1: they're young, they're rookies, right, So they in the back
Speaker 1: we just got blasted by somebody, and uh, they in
Speaker 1: the back of the bus cracking jokes. I got my
Speaker 1: head phones over, so okay, laugh like, and we aren't
Speaker 1: gonna be doing all that goddamn laughing after we just lose.
Speaker 1: Y'all focused on this game, right, you just tell you
Speaker 1: going off everybody? So he just turned around and Jack,
Speaker 1: you know better. I'll take up here and say, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't even I'm not even laughing, but I ain't
Speaker 1: got my handpos off. Well, you know better. You know
Speaker 1: I didn't at the bus I laughing bus. I knew
Speaker 1: he was mad at doing I was saying that I
Speaker 1: knew a time I would. But before we even got
Speaker 1: him the bus to Djags was one of those little
Speaker 1: mothers always laughing dog. So he and when it happened,
Speaker 1: nobody blame him. Nobody. It's always somebody else docs. It
Speaker 1: was just it was just a funny situation. It was better.
Speaker 1: You should know better before we get to the um
Speaker 1: the Knicks part of your career, although you were there
Speaker 1: at the beginning of my thoughts on the last dance
Speaker 1: and and and what you saw and what you learned
Speaker 1: because obviously not the whole time there, but you played
Speaker 1: during that UM. I mean the last dance was something
Speaker 1: for people at home, because you know, pandemic they can
Speaker 1: see different sizes of different people. But I ain't. I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of it was like I don't know
Speaker 1: how true something of it was, but I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, like like Gary Payton,
Speaker 1: you know, he probably woudn't happen with Mike. With Mike
Speaker 1: said about he said a lot about a lot of people. Staia.
Speaker 1: I was talking about itself. I don't know why I
Speaker 1: like Isaiah. I don't know what's up with Iailla. Just
Speaker 1: too sneaky. You know, he always think he ain't I
Speaker 1: ain't do it, but he did it. You know, like
Speaker 1: we got we got you on camera. You did that
Speaker 1: camera camera. You see what Mike, Mike do not want
Speaker 1: to be your friend. I I'm telling you for the
Speaker 1: still time, he did not want to be your friends.
Speaker 1: You know, stay on ESPN, keep talking on t N
Speaker 1: T Mike said, you know now you're trying to say
Speaker 1: everybody better than Mike. It's okay, You're not better than Mike.
Speaker 1: He can't your city and took your city. That's why
Speaker 1: you really, man, he took over Chicago. I know, Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. Uh. One thing I wanted to ask, obviously,
Speaker 1: Pimp dropped the book recently and there was a lot
Speaker 1: of m slander and that. What was your thoughts? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, a lot of last dance,
Speaker 1: it was car over. So you know, Scotty got his book.
Speaker 1: I got my book. I don't know the anybody thought
Speaker 1: me under bridge over the bridge, So I was just myself.
Speaker 1: I think Scottie probably feel like he was more to
Speaker 1: Mike than these guys. He should have got more action
Speaker 1: than Dennis, rob and Steve Kurry. I think Dennis got
Speaker 1: too much play and Kurt I mean, I mean Scotty
Speaker 1: did a lot. I mean Curry might have hit two
Speaker 1: shots in eight years. Dennis, I mean he did his
Speaker 1: thing be bound, but he was an asshole. Yeah, you Dennist,
Speaker 1: you know what it is. I'm ingforced use the claim
Speaker 1: found but but no, just now, I just try to
Speaker 1: keep it real, Dinnist, know what it is. I kind
Speaker 1: of felt like as time passes and you know, people
Speaker 1: kind of give Scott to his props. I just I
Speaker 1: just think he's kind of going too far with it now,
Speaker 1: like to to and everybody have their opinion. Bro, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, But from for one minute, you're
Speaker 1: saying nothing that nobody is better than Joy and he's
Speaker 1: the best. To the point, I guess when after like
Speaker 1: you said, after this last dance came out, now you're
Speaker 1: having second thoughts of saying all this stuff, Like I'm
Speaker 1: kind of feeling like that ain't genuine. I feel like
Speaker 1: he's going through something he's mad at Mike about. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think myself, I think it's something off the court, right,
Speaker 1: because Scotti he said whatever he said, he got a
Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, when they're about to call this
Speaker 1: guy to go and you ain't in the top scoring,
Speaker 1: it's hard. You just said you're betting someone, but you
Speaker 1: got opinion. You know. I know, Scott I told to Scotty, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, I just talked to Mike
Speaker 1: after every last you know, last day. They shouldn't have
Speaker 1: did interview. But Scott, he came out with his book.
Speaker 1: He said a lot this and that, trying to compare
Speaker 1: yourself with Mike. I mean, like I said that I
Speaker 1: called Mike and uh in my book called Mike and
Speaker 1: Lebron for as the flaking corn flakes. So so Scottie
Speaker 1: to Mike, Scotty ain't better than Lebron, No, not even So.
Speaker 1: My thing is Scotta got a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: potentially type of skill that with Brown. But I don't
Speaker 1: think it Scott Avage but maybe one time his career, right,
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know Scott, you know his wife,
Speaker 1: you know, his son passed. I mean, he was going
Speaker 1: through a lot, so he could have you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm trying to you know, I like Scottie,
Speaker 1: but it's Mike's hard to sell you back in the goat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard to set it, but you know we don't
Speaker 1: have a be on the scott Get dealt to the Knicks,
Speaker 1: which was a very popular decision for Bill Cartwright. How
Speaker 1: did you find out and and how tough was that
Speaker 1: for you? Kind of learning the business? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: the business business. I always been like, hey, you ain'ty control,
Speaker 1: don't worry. When you control, you know you can worry.
Speaker 1: I mean my thing is when I got traded. It
Speaker 1: was me and Mike Richard Dent at the Tyson and
Speaker 1: Spinks fights Atlanta City. So we was walking to the fight.
Speaker 1: We're walking to the fight and some guy hit Richard
Speaker 1: Dent like the pickpockets so the pickpocketing, but I called him.
Speaker 1: He threw it down and Richel like, I said, that
Speaker 1: rich your wallet and the guy he duck off. So
Speaker 1: basically he could have had it anyway. So we're going
Speaker 1: to the fight. So somebody, somebody called Mike and we
Speaker 1: really wanted to fight the fight you haven't started yet, said, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: they traded you. I said what, yeah, yeah, they said
Speaker 1: they traded you. I said what then I'm thought of
Speaker 1: thinking like this. And then I said, did you do
Speaker 1: something about it? I'm quitting him, like you're the man
Speaker 1: of the team. I always said you was a man
Speaker 1: of team. So you gotta know something. Don't play dumb now.
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, they said something about it, but I
Speaker 1: ain't know all the details. I said, okay, just answer
Speaker 1: my question. They did tell you, but I mean my
Speaker 1: thing is I didn't. I didn't cry about it. I
Speaker 1: still had a job. I'm going to New York. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna play with Pat you on. I'm going to the Apple.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean they ain't. They ain't trade me
Speaker 1: to Cyca Milla nowhere. I was still going up here.
Speaker 1: So getting in New York Apple was Apple. You know that.
Speaker 1: So many people the year. It's just something, man, all
Speaker 1: the rappers, all the celebrities. I mean, you've really got
Speaker 1: in the mixed. Man. It was like having up there. Man.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I know the eight is not everybody
Speaker 1: in New York, and there's always something going on. Man.
Speaker 1: But we didn't hang out a lot on game days.
Speaker 1: I only win you off. We had a rude night
Speaker 1: of a game. You cannot go out night before. Now, guys,
Speaker 1: go all night before the day before, during the game
Speaker 1: party before the games, I'm like, whoa, what was this
Speaker 1: that was being disrespected to the team? I find especially
Speaker 1: the other teams go out, I try to kill them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you go in my city, then you think you got
Speaker 1: a easy win. Okay, You're like, they was disrespecting me
Speaker 1: by going out the night before they played, y'all. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: anything he did night before a game, you trying to
Speaker 1: have a shoe sign all the go outside that this
Speaker 1: is what might have pissed him off. How you feeling
Speaker 1: about m J smoking cigars? He smoking cigars for the game.
Speaker 1: You weren't smoking cigars back then? Yeah, he started smoking
Speaker 1: to me, so I winning. He changed with the winds.
Speaker 1: So I don't know bus and all that now that's
Speaker 1: the Phil Jackson or he wasn't doing that back then. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your first year in New York, you guys running too
Speaker 1: the Bulls playoffs? What was that? Like? We ran into
Speaker 1: him a lot. It was just one of them things.
Speaker 1: It was just like MJ always said, you were going
Speaker 1: the wrong time. But it was always telling him. I
Speaker 1: always tell him, that's what it said. You always said,
Speaker 1: he's always working around. So I just tell him I'm glad,
Speaker 1: I said, you're glad, David turning your next next to
Speaker 1: a neighbor, Right, that's what you get all the calls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you guys had a hell of a team man,
Speaker 1: Patrick uh Starks, Mason, Larry Johnson, Doc Rivers. What was
Speaker 1: it like just kind of finding your footing with that team?
Speaker 1: It was really talented team going to the nineties. Basically,
Speaker 1: you know we had part uh Jeff let me with
Speaker 1: the Jeff might have been Jeff Paralley, not Jeff Paralley
Speaker 1: then Jeff. So with Lad Johnson, we had Jeff Um.
Speaker 1: I mean we went to the finals in Houston, but
Speaker 1: we um we just balled and bounds all right. Against Houston.
Speaker 1: We was up three too, went seven last minute the game.
Speaker 1: We we couldn't get the league. I think Sam Cansell
Speaker 1: had the Big three and but you know, playing the
Speaker 1: gap was great. And you know we didn't hang a
Speaker 1: lot in New York on somebody would hung out with
Speaker 1: me and Mason, I mean and to Buttom. I don't
Speaker 1: think Patrick went ain't going nowhere. Um Anthon I think that.
Speaker 1: But we uh we we we were trying to play.
Speaker 1: We played. That's it's like a band. You know, everybody
Speaker 1: got to the show overbody going the only way. And
Speaker 1: I think that hurt is as a team because we
Speaker 1: wentn't close enough in New York, you know, and I
Speaker 1: think that, um, that hurt us a little. But we
Speaker 1: tried to you know, like some guys, but you know,
Speaker 1: but a lot of guys. It's just it's just like
Speaker 1: we weren't closer. We should have been more closer and
Speaker 1: sometimes that work out better, but it didn't. It just
Speaker 1: didn't work out. But were we fall to the end.
Speaker 1: That's like I give you that. How was pat Rod
Speaker 1: lets the coast and what advice was given? Like he said,
Speaker 1: like you said, Peg get ready, gets ready to fight
Speaker 1: for every game like a fighter. Uh yeah. He was
Speaker 1: you know, control freak, uh real dominantly like his way
Speaker 1: to the Highway. Great preparation, um, but long long term
Speaker 1: for like late No, we didn't just good in some
Speaker 1: game situations. I think that that hurt is, especially against
Speaker 1: Houston and King and it's skilled pastor and you know,
Speaker 1: we just he was a monster. He was what he
Speaker 1: was defensive m v P and the m v P.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but pat Rowley, you know he's uh, I
Speaker 1: mean he knows what you know how to get you there.
Speaker 1: He can you don't get you there, and you know,
Speaker 1: make sure your body fast as right, make sure you
Speaker 1: know your ways right, and he can make sure you
Speaker 1: you can. You know, like fourth quarter, you got enough energy,
Speaker 1: made defriend of the game and but you know we
Speaker 1: just we just gonna make the bucket when we needed. Um,
Speaker 1: that was a good series. But you know he was
Speaker 1: you know, he worked as hard. We can lose by
Speaker 1: twenty we know we're gonna have to go do some suicide.
Speaker 1: So we'll we'll play back. We have to back to
Speaker 1: back and we lose. We have to work out. Sometimes
Speaker 1: most back in the day, they at the back to
Speaker 1: back to get the day off. It's how you play
Speaker 1: in your back to back, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So if you play bad, you practice. If you play
Speaker 1: you know, keep it glaiming five or six points. Okay,
Speaker 1: I understand. But you know so he was one of
Speaker 1: them guys. So he try to keep your mentally tough
Speaker 1: about the game. And um, you know then at a
Speaker 1: lot of nonsense around. So I can respect that when
Speaker 1: he I mean, he's known for were like you said,
Speaker 1: the running and his preparation that he like, was it
Speaker 1: that like, was Patrick running with y'all like everyone had
Speaker 1: to run? Or was it well to begin a training camp?
Speaker 1: You know, Patrick had bad knees, so late in season
Speaker 1: he didn't do that much running. Um, I mean he didn't. Um.
Speaker 1: He made us do what it's you know, like sometimes
Speaker 1: you just leave practice an't like some people go do somethingles. No,
Speaker 1: you had to go relax and stuff. But I think
Speaker 1: he meant to do that because then want you out
Speaker 1: of about a lot. Yeah, So but he was he was.
Speaker 1: He was totally different and he was a different coach
Speaker 1: and all the coaches I had, so I guess you
Speaker 1: know he had. But when he first came to New York,
Speaker 1: he sit down and talked to me about he wanted
Speaker 1: to cut my minutes. And I said, okay, well, you
Speaker 1: know you got the pedestory. You know you won championship
Speaker 1: in l A, so I'm gonna listen to you. I
Speaker 1: want to win a rank, so I want to see
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So the first year he cut
Speaker 1: my minutes from thirty four down to twenty six twenty seven.
Speaker 1: We didn't do that good. Then the next year he
Speaker 1: I said, I went to talk to you two years,
Speaker 1: I said, Pat, I needed to get my regular I
Speaker 1: think I bring more to the team. I know you
Speaker 1: got all your adelated this and that, but I think
Speaker 1: my force. You're gonna look at the Force like you should.
Speaker 1: So my force do more on the court. So the
Speaker 1: next year I saw it back in my regular minutes.
Speaker 1: I make the All Star team, we go to the finals,
Speaker 1: so point proof. He didn't want to, but I was like,
Speaker 1: I tried your way, try my way, man up right,
Speaker 1: So how good? I think somebody gets lost in the
Speaker 1: shof on the history of Basketball's Patrick Ewing? How good
Speaker 1: was a big fellow down there for you? Was good?
Speaker 1: But Patrick wasn't that Georgetown patrion. To me, he didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't bring that when he left Georgetown. I think
Speaker 1: he left his tough and stiff. You got to be
Speaker 1: a more for this, and I think that hurts as
Speaker 1: a team because we want it. Ain't about getting thirty points,
Speaker 1: about dog calling that mill of down when they're coming
Speaker 1: up with their heads down the floor. I did I didn't,
Speaker 1: you know, So my thing, one guy, I can do it. Now,
Speaker 1: we're trying to win as a team. If you're trying
Speaker 1: to do it that's what he didn't do. But I
Speaker 1: mean he got a twenty and ten Dream Team, Hall
Speaker 1: of Hall of Fame all that, but we didn't get
Speaker 1: the rain, right, you know, call my on Barkley James
Speaker 1: hard of Westbrook. I mean, you know, so, I mean
Speaker 1: you get all the shots and you get the money
Speaker 1: and the glory, but the team don't win nothing other
Speaker 1: than the Bulls. What other teams you know, was tough
Speaker 1: on a nightly basis. I was, I was going to
Speaker 1: against the Paces and Reggy milling Um as well. I
Speaker 1: going to play the Paces against Dale and an Tonio Davis,
Speaker 1: Reggie Rick Smith, and yeah, I love it. You know,
Speaker 1: it was more affiliate than me. I just I just
Speaker 1: like to play against guys. My slides they want to bang,
Speaker 1: you know. But we had we had some wars. That
Speaker 1: was the That was more war with them with Chicago, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know Chicago was just trying to run you
Speaker 1: in for ness. And but you know, Indiana played more
Speaker 1: half court the same way we played, so it was
Speaker 1: more mana mana. But I mean we REGI killed that
Speaker 1: one game in school like nine points in like eight seconds. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then that another year Patrick Mr finger Roll And but
Speaker 1: you know, there was two teams just batting to beat
Speaker 1: the Bulls. Were all in the same situation. I think
Speaker 1: they went to the finally one we did. We had
Speaker 1: we all had to go through the Bulls. They had
Speaker 1: to go through us. We had to go through them,
Speaker 1: and then the Bulls. The bull was like, okay, they're
Speaker 1: just staying in the finish. Who next? You know? So
Speaker 1: it was it was fun to playing against them. You
Speaker 1: was on the team when Alonzo, I mean when Alonso on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they weren't doing nothing. They hate nobody connected, nobody connected. No,
Speaker 1: they threw something. They threw a lot of They threw
Speaker 1: a lot of Yeah. It was funny though. So we
Speaker 1: we briefly touched on this. Ninety four you guys make
Speaker 1: the finals. That's actually the year MJ wouldn't play baseball.
Speaker 1: You guys beat the Bulls in seven tough battle against
Speaker 1: uh against Indiana in the Eastern Conference finals. You guys
Speaker 1: run into Houston and like you said, you just couldn't
Speaker 1: get the job done. No, we just I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the first two games in Houston we split. Come to
Speaker 1: New York, we went two out of the three. Um,
Speaker 1: that's when the old J thing was going on, and
Speaker 1: I think that was happening. Yeah, the juice that was
Speaker 1: game five. I think yeah, game five because I remember
Speaker 1: they stopped. But the Houston, I mean, you know they
Speaker 1: just kim just we could we could. I mean, he
Speaker 1: was just he was a problem. That What was you
Speaker 1: thinking when you saw the juice on the runt? Oh man,
Speaker 1: it's crazy, he's innocent. I was like, that was crazy.
Speaker 1: But then the break in during a game that was
Speaker 1: like Hamiship during the finals. The juice is on the run. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but King King killed us. But Sam Cansell hit some
Speaker 1: big shots. He played big big shots, and every time
Speaker 1: we tried to switch over this and that, the other
Speaker 1: guy do something, it was just you know, that was
Speaker 1: our chance and we never got back. That's it's so
Speaker 1: hard to get back, you know. I think you know,
Speaker 1: especially when you left one out there, you'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we gotta get back. And then on the way back,
Speaker 1: it got to be perfect, you know, basically got to
Speaker 1: add a piece. I know what you did wrong? You know. Health, Yes,
Speaker 1: a lot of luck goes into it. And you hear
Speaker 1: about teams going back to back like ken'son and got
Speaker 1: a chance of going three three years in football, you know,
Speaker 1: as they struggle to beginning this season, now they're back
Speaker 1: on track. It's just like man, got on line. It
Speaker 1: was fun though, you know, like being I think we
Speaker 1: had games six in Houston. You know, they had the
Speaker 1: T shirts and stuff made up already, right, so I'm
Speaker 1: in the hotel. They didn't see me. I've seen it.
Speaker 1: I've seen them like roll and stuff out, you know,
Speaker 1: to like because they had it ready just in case
Speaker 1: we won. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. But it's
Speaker 1: just amazing that you see that and like wow, and
Speaker 1: I was way to the bus. I'm like, man, but
Speaker 1: you know, just now we got chance to put it on.
Speaker 1: They probably they probably burnt it up. And y'all, y'all
Speaker 1: win a game six, mostiple you hunt to win game seven,
Speaker 1: but it was closed, went down to the last like
Speaker 1: seven minute. But Sam, we'll still hit that three pointers
Speaker 1: on the big shot. Yeah. When you take a look back, now,
Speaker 1: what was you what what comes to mind when you
Speaker 1: think about your time in New York? Just how the
Speaker 1: fans treated me. They speed treated me with so much
Speaker 1: love and me, I mean the people were just the
Speaker 1: restaurants and I got a chance and you know to
Speaker 1: meet so many different people in different places and connections
Speaker 1: like crazy. Uh, I mean I had to do it
Speaker 1: do the same way. Did you get big and fashion
Speaker 1: when he was in New York? That's when you started
Speaker 1: getting big and fashion like I was. I was, no,
Speaker 1: we just get out of clothes made by this lady
Speaker 1: in Chicago named Barbara Bates Man shot with care from
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Yeah. Can you know he made Johnny Newman closed? Yeah? Johnny,
Speaker 1: Now that's right. So basically, you know, Rochester was out
Speaker 1: a little, so I was mixing the a little that
Speaker 1: so I stopped going to Rock Schulu. You so I've
Speaker 1: seen everybody in the league with the same you know,
Speaker 1: type of jacket. Yeah. Then Barbara started making guys the
Speaker 1: same time, so I was like, okay, let me find
Speaker 1: me another tator. So I got New York. I got
Speaker 1: missed the dead. E've been making myself like thirty five years. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so but I still I didn't get something Barb. But
Speaker 1: she's cool. She started with all the you know NFL
Speaker 1: guys before we got there. Then Mike used to get
Speaker 1: all the lone jackets and two pieces, Nick Annas and
Speaker 1: Kenna get all them guys. But yeah, she once first started.
Speaker 1: I just always wonder who, like, who was the first
Speaker 1: to start wearing fresh suits and getting clean and come
Speaker 1: to the games. You know what I'm saying, We all
Speaker 1: did that though everybody. We believe you gotta well, you
Speaker 1: know suit. I mean, we're going to work, so we
Speaker 1: gotta wear a suit. But yeah, I always want to
Speaker 1: suit the game. You know that. I probably had it
Speaker 1: every year three for one of those suits. So I
Speaker 1: was honestly always just hats. You know, you could call
Speaker 1: me to Mac back there ninety eight it was traded
Speaker 1: to Toronto for Marcus Camping. You provided a veteran presence
Speaker 1: for the young guys in Toronto VC and t Mac.
Speaker 1: How was that being with those two young stars? It
Speaker 1: was great? Uh you know Vince with the rookie trade
Speaker 1: team Mac with the one year before um, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of vesting. I think that a muggs of
Speaker 1: game Dale, Captain Willers, you know, just a tourny old.
Speaker 1: Basically it was distracted Keon Clark, Keian Clarde, these come
Speaker 1: ways come over the Crown boy and he could have
Speaker 1: been good man. Yeah he's dunking everything, don't everything blocked everything.
Speaker 1: But now with getting trace and Vincent. It was just
Speaker 1: like Wow, these two young guys and both of them
Speaker 1: us so talented one two punts, you know, like the
Speaker 1: Rosa and Zack Bean. But Tracy, you know it left
Speaker 1: the next year and the Evince it was, you know,
Speaker 1: he stepped up. We had teammates and like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is your team, we got your back veteran's you know,
Speaker 1: take minut shore as you won't just be ready to
Speaker 1: play every fucking night. I told him just like that,
Speaker 1: and you know he showed up. Obviously getting a chance
Speaker 1: to play with MJ. But Vince from a standpoint of
Speaker 1: coming into the league and just the amount of highlights
Speaker 1: he provided with you ever and like, ah, like you've
Speaker 1: been with the Groat. Yeah, but Vince, I think that's
Speaker 1: something different. Yeah, I think Vince highlight might be better
Speaker 1: than Mike. I'm sorry, Mike. When Vince with the Elevator,
Speaker 1: it was a twelve. He made the thirteen fools. He's
Speaker 1: the best end game dunker. We've got him and uh
Speaker 1: yeah Dominique for his tip dunk Human Highlight film. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Vince, I know it was crazy when he got
Speaker 1: longs on he opened the door, then let me close
Speaker 1: it on everybody. It was. That was the day he
Speaker 1: put the show on. He had a good he had
Speaker 1: a ten year run, Vince and the Dunk Contest and
Speaker 1: up in Canada, you know, he left Canada kind of events.
Speaker 1: Then then uh Kawitlina come win the championship. Man change everything.
Speaker 1: I went to four of them games, I mean three
Speaker 1: of them games. It was like whoa, they was off
Speaker 1: the change of this id and the crew. He got
Speaker 1: his own little spot in the reader like mere jumping.
Speaker 1: They're done it big oh one oh two. You come
Speaker 1: back to the Bulls. So how was it coming back
Speaker 1: and how was it playing with Jamal Carford? I ran,
Speaker 1: I tested all of them come back to Bulls from yeah,
Speaker 1: young Bucks, Tim Floyda coach man. He was terrible to
Speaker 1: the state in college, oh man college, I don't know
Speaker 1: it's even but high school, Uh it was bad. But
Speaker 1: coming back to the bull with them young guys and
Speaker 1: you know Eddie Tyson then get drafted and U Jamal
Speaker 1: was you know Jamal head all the and one stuff.
Speaker 1: It was fun, but management and ready for the moment.
Speaker 1: They blame me young guys for everything went wrong, and
Speaker 1: I told him that wasn't Then how you do business.
Speaker 1: You didn't bring me back here to be Uh. I'm
Speaker 1: not a yes man. That's what they thought. I told
Speaker 1: Jerry and no, no, he find me like, no, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not that type of guy. I got you back,
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna let y'all just dog these young guys.
Speaker 1: You have too high school guys and they don't know
Speaker 1: what to do, and you're not trying to make them
Speaker 1: better and you're getting your coach can't make them better
Speaker 1: because he don't know what the hell he's doing. So
Speaker 1: it was it was a little bumping for a minute
Speaker 1: and got into a tin floor. And another story was
Speaker 1: you know Margot fighter, you know him right, So he
Speaker 1: tried to six like Barkley six flat six jump out
Speaker 1: of the gym. So one day we have been practice,
Speaker 1: so it was like mass with Edd and Tyson. I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: lead them young guys, Like you're young, You've just been
Speaker 1: in the league a year before them, So how are
Speaker 1: you gonna just try to tell him what to do.
Speaker 1: If I'm not telling, you shouldn't do any telling. So
Speaker 1: he started trying to next day in practice, trying to
Speaker 1: you know, just doing this exce stuff. I'm like man,
Speaker 1: I told you the other day. Now you do it
Speaker 1: again in I'm gonna come to see you, you know.
Speaker 1: So he did something again, so I had to come
Speaker 1: and see him. I said, I what did I tell you?
Speaker 1: I getting like a three piece right? Yea, as I
Speaker 1: told you, he said, Man, he spanta to be a leader.
Speaker 1: I said, that's not leagal leader. I warned you twice
Speaker 1: the other time. It's me example. So and then they
Speaker 1: brought me and they find me like it's all good man,
Speaker 1: but that's Tyson and head they back. Yeah. Now we
Speaker 1: talked about it before. Eddie said, because he was on
Speaker 1: the Warrior's team and he always spoke about having y'all us.
Speaker 1: Event was was big for him and him and Tyson.
Speaker 1: And he said if the organization would have had more
Speaker 1: patience with them, they would have did. But he said
Speaker 1: they had no patience. Will two thousand until you signed
Speaker 1: with the Wizards as a free agent. You're reunited with Mike.
Speaker 1: How was that being back on both o gees. Now
Speaker 1: on your way out, we had the ball seemed like
Speaker 1: we part of game. We are they we didn't. We didn't.
Speaker 1: We stayed with the rules and we didn't go out
Speaker 1: night for a game. But we just you know, he stayed.
Speaker 1: We stayed right on twenty second m in Washston. He's
Speaker 1: on the north side, on the south side, and so
Speaker 1: we had you know, Micaul's Mike. You know, I'm just
Speaker 1: still coming in practicing hard. You know, him in Stackhouse
Speaker 1: got a little into it a couple of times. But
Speaker 1: you know, for man, you know, beforety years old, both
Speaker 1: of us were still practiced and showing that hey, we're
Speaker 1: not here just for the ride. We here to you know,
Speaker 1: make the team go win and be leaders. But we
Speaker 1: had fun, you know, I said, but I did every
Speaker 1: game together, and you know, we just you know, the
Speaker 1: people in the city they just loved because we were
Speaker 1: the Batman and they played so many years. They were
Speaker 1: just lad, you know, we was on the team. But
Speaker 1: a lot of respecting d c U. When I went
Speaker 1: to school, like I was happening, So I knew a
Speaker 1: lot of people in the city. We just have fun.
Speaker 1: You were known for someone obviously with the book called
Speaker 1: The Last Enforce. You were known for wanting to smoke
Speaker 1: with people. So I'm gonna give you a list of
Speaker 1: names and just tell me what you remember about these
Speaker 1: people on the battles you have when of the first
Speaker 1: time Charles Barkley, Charles Barkling great players on the size,
Speaker 1: but on the court. I mean, no, he didn't talk
Speaker 1: like he talked. Now. I guess he got another set
Speaker 1: of license since he's got at the NBA. He's all right, guy.
Speaker 1: I don't I want to talk too much good about him,
Speaker 1: but yeah, he's in my book. Yeah, and nothing good
Speaker 1: about him in the book. Question because I heard, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was true a room. I heard
Speaker 1: there was a player meeting one time players in the
Speaker 1: league and you slapped Charles. Yeah, he said somebody we
Speaker 1: elaborate on that. Yeah, he Atlanta City is a game.
Speaker 1: I didn't play him, but as that so something that
Speaker 1: happen an interview, And I said, next time this guy
Speaker 1: said anybody name again, Chuck, Charles, Charlie. If he said
Speaker 1: any of them names again, I'm smacking my saying. So
Speaker 1: he said Charlie. And so I ain't see him to
Speaker 1: the lockout their head downtown with all the players there,
Speaker 1: anybody and then let's get this ship together. Man, and
Speaker 1: they you know, they keep trying to take all the money.
Speaker 1: So I said, I'm walking in. I called Mace, Dard Coleman,
Speaker 1: Chris Meal. I said, I'm clearly They called me, like
Speaker 1: you come, I see I'm coming, So I come in.
Speaker 1: I'm looking around. I see I go straight to him.
Speaker 1: I like what you say. Just when they have a seat,
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the meeting, like it went deep in
Speaker 1: the big deal. Like you when you go arout, some
Speaker 1: get some water. So everybody like, what do you do? Nothing?
Speaker 1: That's not the ball bounce. That's sometimes Larry Bird. Oh man,
Speaker 1: he's one of the best. You know, go through the
Speaker 1: ring and then shooting at for thirty five o'clock, go
Speaker 1: to shoot around and shooting the nine o'clock. Just work
Speaker 1: on his craft. I mean, I know we beat him
Speaker 1: in a series. He was, you know, just three out
Speaker 1: of five back in the days. But he tried to
Speaker 1: dunk and miss, but we beat him. And I mean
Speaker 1: he was. He's a legend that team that he played with.
Speaker 1: I mean, just he knew how to play all angles
Speaker 1: with the cord and everything. Rick Mahorn just a big guy.
Speaker 1: He went to his story of Black College like me
Speaker 1: and uh, I know, Rick, I tell him he ain't
Speaker 1: tell with Jeff Rule and they watched him x man
Speaker 1: x man, undersized power for play, small talk shit, top
Speaker 1: ten pick on ve you. Um he was. He was
Speaker 1: a little falced, but you know he's able to could
Speaker 1: do what his size. Alonzo morning, Alonzo Georgetown guy like
Speaker 1: the flex ain't gonna fight um, just like it's on
Speaker 1: the mother Georgetown guys. Uh, he's a cool guy. You
Speaker 1: know he think he's too cool sometimes, but he ain't
Speaker 1: mad at beat yourself. Yeah, probably pronounced his last name
Speaker 1: of palm Moski. Oh yeah, I got into him, touched
Speaker 1: him up. I had to touch him up. Did you
Speaker 1: get him warning first? No, he broke my nose. I
Speaker 1: ain't one. I had to give it to him. Oh
Speaker 1: he hit you with albo man hit me, he went
Speaker 1: the face. I hit him in two pieces. What's the
Speaker 1: id that too? One time he was in the game
Speaker 1: and Houston on the thought. So he hit me the
Speaker 1: first time. I ain't do that. That's a strong one.
Speaker 1: So the second time he elbowed me. He said he
Speaker 1: tried to catch his elbow. I had to touch him up.
Speaker 1: He's strong. He was strong. I don't care. I was
Speaker 1: strong with it. No. It was fun though, man, I
Speaker 1: liked that stuff, but that's what it is part of it.
Speaker 1: Part of it. Fast forward February Madison Square Garden. He
Speaker 1: removed the rest of during the next Clipper game. UM,
Speaker 1: a lot of way after that, a lot of ship
Speaker 1: went back. Ford tell us about that situation. Wow, it
Speaker 1: was crazy. I went there the night before for a
Speaker 1: third my months the baseball player I have a Foundation
Speaker 1: Award dinner. So I was going to like regular and UM,
Speaker 1: I was there and this guy said, you wanna go
Speaker 1: to the game the next night? I said, yeah, I go.
Speaker 1: Next thing I know, he comes eight guys walking up
Speaker 1: and you gotta go, said I gotta go. I just
Speaker 1: got here, you gotta go. I said, what you said?
Speaker 1: What your ticket? I said, how do you think I
Speaker 1: get down here? So basically that he's setting them guys
Speaker 1: over there and you know, aggravate me. And one thing
Speaker 1: led to another one. They started grab it on me
Speaker 1: and said get your hands off of me, don't touch me,
Speaker 1: and they took me in the back, cuff me and
Speaker 1: put the cuffs on me. And you know, it took
Speaker 1: me to cross the street to the presed and got
Speaker 1: in there. They called me a piece of them. We
Speaker 1: just sit back. And so it got to the point
Speaker 1: where you actually went to the precinct. Yeah, I went
Speaker 1: there and some so some guy to watching game. So
Speaker 1: everybody was trying to get me out. So my guys
Speaker 1: from Long Island came. You know, it's a big has
Speaker 1: fine guy and wants a cop too, so he came
Speaker 1: and got me out. They let me go about twelve
Speaker 1: thirty one o'clock the night. They did a couple of interviews,
Speaker 1: but O, man, just you see how howld him Like
Speaker 1: I'm howling people of the game and just unbelieving. It's
Speaker 1: just amazing what happened. And you know today the commission
Speaker 1: never find him or suspend him or nothing. And he
Speaker 1: was there and all of this snational televits game and
Speaker 1: all this go down. Somebody that calls this to happen.
Speaker 1: Eight guys to wealk up to me for nothing. I
Speaker 1: can't even I thought robbed the bank or something that
Speaker 1: they'd see me some all duty cops. It's one regular
Speaker 1: cop there. But it was just some bullshit, man, some bullshit,
Speaker 1: and that's like really hurt the family and everybody who
Speaker 1: knew who I know, somebody messed with. You gotta protect yourself.
Speaker 1: That's how I was doing, protecting myself when did you
Speaker 1: know I was trying to hang it up? Two thousand three?
Speaker 1: Yeall want the championship? You was with the Rockets. That
Speaker 1: was your last year hanging up. I mean when you
Speaker 1: my type of role, I mean, you can play as
Speaker 1: long as you wont is just if the team won't
Speaker 1: you if I ain't had to school points, just you
Speaker 1: know a body, you know, a veteran, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean basically, just Manique, tell me, because I wouldn't like
Speaker 1: I got to school points to be successful in the game,
Speaker 1: rebound defense. I had to do so, I mean I
Speaker 1: still could have probably played another year. I mean I
Speaker 1: was flexible. I can see give me on the court.
Speaker 1: I wasn't banging up or nothing. Eighteen years, eighteen and
Speaker 1: a half. You gonna count that last year in Houston.
Speaker 1: What are you most proud of? And career? We're more
Speaker 1: proud of, um All Star. I'm I'm probably more proud
Speaker 1: of playing this long All Star. Getting to the finals
Speaker 1: and meeting a lot of people in my career battered
Speaker 1: my life. That you know, people you can do. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people can call on and deal with
Speaker 1: if you need something that's that's good to you know,
Speaker 1: had the type of connection, you know, to play a
Speaker 1: long time like that, just just being hummering and just
Speaker 1: realized that it was a job at all time I
Speaker 1: didn't take up for granted, I'm proud to say that
Speaker 1: I got a chance to get some assist from you.
Speaker 1: We played together in the Big Three, so you're still
Speaker 1: in a great enough shape to play. You played in
Speaker 1: the Big Three for US season. Yeah, it's messing around,
Speaker 1: but anyone's had to up give you a chicken in
Speaker 1: the biscuit too. Yeah, we we our passion for the
Speaker 1: game clashed. I want to hear about it. I was
Speaker 1: watching on TV. I'm like, damn, Jack, I got your back,
Speaker 1: but don't go out it with oh god, damn not. OK,
Speaker 1: tell us about that day, Jack. What had happened was
Speaker 1: I was arguing with the referees and one thing and
Speaker 1: this is this is I'm gonna say this. This is
Speaker 1: what he was right about. Though. When I don't argue
Speaker 1: with the referees, I was unstoppable. So anytime I don't
Speaker 1: get a file, as you know, I'm arguing with the
Speaker 1: motherfucker's you can't miss a call while I'm on the court. Sorry,
Speaker 1: So I come out to go oh take me out.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't like coming out the game especial three.
Speaker 1: But he but what he was the whole time? We
Speaker 1: in Texas, So I'm trying to show up in front
Speaker 1: of my family. He telling me to calm down, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, he followed me. Oh, he fired. He followed
Speaker 1: me to the point where you ain't going back in
Speaker 1: the game. You talked to the reps. I'm gonna check
Speaker 1: myself in. No you ain't. Yes I am, I say,
Speaker 1: I said, oh you forgot where you at? This? What
Speaker 1: this was? Killed the whole I said, Oh, we text
Speaker 1: you what God where you at? You saud like American allies, um, everyone.
Speaker 1: And we ended up winning the game. So for all
Speaker 1: the people want to talk about the argument, it worked
Speaker 1: because we end up winning the game. And you'll have
Speaker 1: to drink at the bar later. We were what happened,
Speaker 1: me and him going to the bar eat after every game.
Speaker 1: That's just what it was, all right, man, coming down
Speaker 1: the home stretch quick hitters. First thing to come to mind.
Speaker 1: Let us know, if someone to make a biopick of
Speaker 1: your life, what actor would play you? Good question, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. I can let Myron, maybe Leon he
Speaker 1: can play anybody. You can play anybody. He'll fan of
Speaker 1: the show to. Actually, it's funny you said. They's something
Speaker 1: DM recently tell him he looked like me, so I
Speaker 1: just because he can do it. Top NBA defenders of
Speaker 1: all time Dennis, Robin, Scotty, Uh, Matamo um me bo,
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's fine. First one, who was the first one?
Speaker 1: Adam Robinson, Robinson Okay Scotty and Matamo okay Aba robson
Speaker 1: Um share a quick story with any of these people.
Speaker 1: I'm about to list, Tupac, jay Z, Ice Cuba, Mike Tyson. Wow,
Speaker 1: I know all of them. I wouldn't see Tyson and
Speaker 1: Jails and Tupac we tossed it up. Jay Z we
Speaker 1: ain't him been and running, I mean good and bad.
Speaker 1: But he used to go um no, I just says
Speaker 1: the name he's his name is like wow. They was
Speaker 1: great and know you know two party saying he's the
Speaker 1: best rap all time. Tyson had an air and nobody
Speaker 1: never had before. You know, size Ali most his fight
Speaker 1: last and on the last five rounds. And jay Z
Speaker 1: just Sloanjevid and changed the game for us. What do
Speaker 1: you do off? Not on the MC but what are
Speaker 1: you doing for helping people? Trying to be fund itself
Speaker 1: bench businessman ever? And he just he just just he
Speaker 1: used it from the streets and to get the Hollywood Hollywood,
Speaker 1: and I ain't looked back. That gave him a lot
Speaker 1: of credit for that. You said you visited, uh Tupac
Speaker 1: in jail, No, Tyson Tyson and jail. Yeah, okay, so Tyson,
Speaker 1: you know, Don King was from o how so he
Speaker 1: had a farm downe there in Tyson moved up about
Speaker 1: I guess, say, I'm eight years and I just see
Speaker 1: him around on the corner shooting dikes and the bars
Speaker 1: at the party, you know, Tyson, that's what he did.
Speaker 1: And so we went in. I was going to play
Speaker 1: Indiana and was in the playoffs. I got in earlier.
Speaker 1: I called and checked out everything, and so I took
Speaker 1: a little bill. You just just went in there and
Speaker 1: they let mean, you know, coming there were sitting talk.
Speaker 1: We had a long, long talk. They let us state
Speaker 1: in like X hour comes. I guess because of me,
Speaker 1: you know, but it was it was, you know, it
Speaker 1: was sad, you know, to see him locked up like that. Um,
Speaker 1: we don't know all the you know, Cartier to what happened.
Speaker 1: But you know, but when they call, you know, they
Speaker 1: put they closed that door and mean he did something wrong.
Speaker 1: You know, But I see him all the time to
Speaker 1: this day, you know, on the wet signing and just
Speaker 1: being out about you know him, his life now as
Speaker 1: a whole different brand. You know, re invented that something
Speaker 1: evented itself and in a good way. You plus four
Speaker 1: going to the black Top? What other players are you bringing?
Speaker 1: Plus fours? No are you talking about? Oh so this
Speaker 1: is basically like when they shot the space jam when
Speaker 1: MJ had the bubble. So basically it was like the
Speaker 1: team we had when no like you know, want no score,
Speaker 1: but guys who get up and play defense. We won
Speaker 1: because we had a good defensive. Things we made the buckets,
Speaker 1: We got a good defense, and that we stopping the
Speaker 1: other team. So we you know, we had a chance
Speaker 1: to win. But who I'm gonna take on the court
Speaker 1: with me? And I'm definite gonna take black Um and
Speaker 1: we got to play on the black top myself, Lebron,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take Shock. I need some deezing, I need
Speaker 1: another shooter. Probably take Kobe m hm m They say
Speaker 1: black Kovid Lebron Shock yeah and me. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: what kind of music did you to listen to before
Speaker 1: the games? Um? I went to music. I like that.
Speaker 1: I liked all of it. I ain't had no sunch
Speaker 1: of type, but I love like Luther OJ's Temp Teddy all.
Speaker 1: That's um kind of some relaxing ship before you play.
Speaker 1: Well know what I'm saying. No, I listened to up Temp.
Speaker 1: I mean I can music don't make me go up
Speaker 1: but down. You know, some people need to get high,
Speaker 1: you know. I just I just like it, what's up
Speaker 1: and playing? But you know bone Thugs from Cleveland, you know,
Speaker 1: my boys get him a shout out. But I didn't
Speaker 1: have no really really In the New York it was
Speaker 1: so much news back then. You know, Chuck d running
Speaker 1: mc l You know you got higg wasn't it Biggie.
Speaker 1: You got um a little bit after that huh Wu Tang,
Speaker 1: a little bit after that little Wood Tang, and then
Speaker 1: you got um rock Cam and being rock camp. So
Speaker 1: I got storry about that. I was in Chicago, you know,
Speaker 1: my second year. I was going to say, I think
Speaker 1: it's ninety seven. Painting food came out right, So I'm in.
Speaker 1: I'm got beat him. You know, I got the go
Speaker 1: from the seats. I got a BM going in the
Speaker 1: middle of you know, so I'm riding down find the
Speaker 1: going to back. So a light it's only yellow, but
Speaker 1: you know it ain't turn in, so I'm going to
Speaker 1: turn Stop the fucking car. Stop the car, Like, what's
Speaker 1: going on with I'm just going to stop the fucking car. Man,
Speaker 1: you don't have to go all like that. And he
Speaker 1: just kept coxing me on. I got I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: take but so much really so then another coup. Oh man,
Speaker 1: that's oh he just went the bull. You know, just
Speaker 1: should just be happy. I like, man, you know, just
Speaker 1: almost blew up. It could have been another kid. Almost
Speaker 1: time I was gone. They were just all extra. But
Speaker 1: so I went to see the show that was I
Speaker 1: think the first album. It was, you know, a nice
Speaker 1: little show in Chicago. But I like, like rock kill
Speaker 1: me just he just delivered, you know. I was just
Speaker 1: in New York last weekend and had the old school
Speaker 1: show Carries One Slick Wig Um Kane was there, nice
Speaker 1: and Smooth Kid didn't play. It was mystical. It was
Speaker 1: nice little show. I was surprised that, you know, but
Speaker 1: it was a good show. If you could have one
Speaker 1: guests on this show. Who would it be? But before
Speaker 1: you answer, you have to help us get your answer.
Speaker 1: He might be the only person that could be able
Speaker 1: to get the person. I just hope you say his name. Wow?
Speaker 1: Is he a rapper? No? You know who? Black? Yes,
Speaker 1: you might be the only person that could really get
Speaker 1: him to us too. I mean, I'm still in the
Speaker 1: family with the shoe deal, but I can't get m
Speaker 1: on the You might you might break down. He did
Speaker 1: the four in my books, right, you know, but you know,
Speaker 1: but that's what I said to right, you know, you
Speaker 1: know you gotta could do you know what. You gotta
Speaker 1: give your teammate one here and there, right, you know,
Speaker 1: it might be every teen years, might be you gotta
Speaker 1: do that one every nothing then. But I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: this's about about m J. I haven't obviously. When I
Speaker 1: see him, it's like he ain't like he's seen me yesterday.
Speaker 1: Every time I see him, it's like he's seen me, yester.
Speaker 1: And you got a lot of love from me, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. He got a lot of love
Speaker 1: from me. But uh, yeah, man, I don't put it
Speaker 1: in I'm gonna get my wife Angela because she wants
Speaker 1: the show all the time. And Ab and Arlie they'd
Speaker 1: be like, they was like, Dad, when you're gonna be
Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, I've been over. They've been telling
Speaker 1: I had to set it up a couple of times.
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't work in New York. But perfect time.
Speaker 1: When they want the real smoke, they're gonna call perfect.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on. You know, I got a
Speaker 1: lot of love for you. Thank you, brother to me
Speaker 1: about the book one more time. Man, you got to
Speaker 1: get it. I mean you can't. You would not stop laughing.
Speaker 1: Don't do not drink one. Do not drink one and
Speaker 1: read this book. But you have to change clothes a
Speaker 1: couple of times. I'm honored to be in here. I'm
Speaker 1: in this book, honored, honored to be in this a
Speaker 1: lot of names. I'm telling you it will be a
Speaker 1: sequel to it, because oh yeah's just part one. Oh man,
Speaker 1: this is this is this is going to tempt and
Speaker 1: platinum and going in twenty did we think we thank
Speaker 1: you for giving us the booking the bust down to
Speaker 1: my flights and ain't gonna I'm telling you got to
Speaker 1: get for you too, though. Okay, you know we got
Speaker 1: a new merch out, no doubt. I'm a rocket. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I already know. You got to make sure you get
Speaker 1: some man. We got the brank this and for stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's coming. Yeah, I'm gonna make sure I get you.
Speaker 1: Send me all my stuff from the grills to the
Speaker 1: T shirts. I got all that stuff. Thanks for the bag,
Speaker 1: all the smoke dot story, go get it. Y'all coming
Speaker 1: with it. Yes, sir, I'm gonna cut my hair next week.
Speaker 1: I'm away. I'm a posted. It's a snapback, So you're good.
Speaker 1: Well oak Man. We appreciate your timeations on the book
Speaker 1: and more books to come. Continue, come back soon. We're
Speaker 1: talking about these these people out here. Yes, I don't
Speaker 1: mind talking about it. That's a wrap all the Smoke.
Speaker 1: Special guests Charles Oakley, make sure you go get this
Speaker 1: book right now. You can catch us on Showtime, Basketball,
Speaker 1: YouTube and the I Heart Platform Black Effects. See you
Speaker 1: all next week. This is all a Smoke, a production
Speaker 1: of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Showtime