1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. I had a very 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: interesting relationship with breastfeeding. UM, I was incredibly lucky. I 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: had more milk than I could possibly have used. I 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: actually had my milk ducts and my armpits all filled up, 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: and I was I had like, you know, dinosaur eggs 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: sized like glands Emily's face And for everyone listening, I 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: have look, I have given Emily Rogers milk out to like, 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: if we can say this, I've given Emily Rogers milk 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: out to friends. That's how much she has. Hello, everybody, 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I'm so excited about this 12 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: episode of Katie's Grip, which is postpartum depression that comes 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: around weening. I don't know why no one talks about this. 14 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: I don't know why there's no warning signs. I don't 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: know why it happens the way it does. But I 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: have come across so many friends that whether they wean 17 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: at six months, three months, one month, one year, one 18 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: and a half years, whatever, they have a major hormonal 19 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: drop off and it is postpartum depression. And yet we 20 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: are not prepared for this area. So I have two 21 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: friends on the podcast today, Dear dear, dear, dear personal 22 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: friends of mine who also know each other because we 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: were the same mommy and me class. And the first 24 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: of this dynamic trio is Alison Acle. She is Shonda 25 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: Land's Chief Content Officer of TV and film. Listen to 26 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: that title. She joined Sean Lannon two thousand of their teams. 27 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: She's developed a number of drama and comedy projects for ABC, 28 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: including the series How To Get Away with the Murder 29 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: Station nineteen. She is also the co executive producer for 30 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: Bridgton and Inventing Anna. On a personal level, like Ruben, saying, 31 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: she also had a postpartum depression while weaning. We've got 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: Emily Rogers, who is a former corporate attorney turned stay 33 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: at home mom of two highly opinionated, excellent, incredible girls, 34 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: the older of which is in nursery school with my son. 35 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: She has experienced postpartum depression after weaning with her older daughter, Evie. 36 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: She is currently weaning her younger daughter, Audrey. She's originally 37 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: from Vancouver, Canada, and she now lives in Los Angeles 38 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: with her husband, daughters, and her cat. Welcome to Katie's crib. Oh, 39 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: and Allison lives with her cat, right your okay, thank god? Okay, 40 00:02:51,480 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: I was the cat is here. The cats are year 41 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: my son. All he wants is a cat and a fish. 42 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: So I don't know, I think not, Yeah, that's not 43 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: a good duo, right, That's what I tell him. But 44 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: he doesn't really get it. He's just starting to understand that, 45 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: like when he eats beef or that's like like he's 46 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: asking weird questions. But anyway, let's get back to the 47 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: point of this podcast, which is I want to focus 48 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 1: on the period when you're breastfeeding and you're weaning off 49 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: of breastfeeding. And this is, like I said quickly in 50 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: the intro that for some reason, why the fucking hell 51 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: is nobody talking about this? Uh. Post weaning depression, according 52 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: to parents dot com, is a term used to describe 53 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: depression that can occur after a woman stops breastfeeding. Via 54 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: very Well Family dot com. Post weaning depression may occur 55 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: concurrently with postpartum depression, but it's a distinct experience. Most importantly, 56 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: post weaning depression is linked in time with the ending 57 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: of breastfeeding, whereas postpartum depression is linked with the birthing 58 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: of a baby. Okay, I'm going to shut up now, Allison. 59 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: Let's start with you. Yes, you breastfed your glorious son. 60 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: And when did you know? Baby? He is the greatest 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: king of all babies. I love him so much. When 62 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: did you know that it was time to wean? Well? 63 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: I don't think I did. I think this is why 64 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: this whole thing snuck up on me. And it's interesting 65 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: that it's it's called kind of post or weaning related 66 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: depression because it didn't manifest for me in any of 67 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: the ways that I classically understood what depression would look like. 68 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: So I feel like I was missing the signs. Shall 69 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: we say? For me? It was a raging dose of 70 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: anxiety is the best way, like a paralyzing dose of anxiety. 71 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: And what had happened was I'll take it. He's so 72 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: Walt is his name. He's a little bit Chris Farley, 73 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: a little bit Philip Seymour Hoffman. He's a giant baby. 74 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: Only the Chief Shanda Land Content Officer would nail her 75 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: son like you have described your son is to pitch 76 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: like I'm like that, Oh my gosh, you've nailed it. Okay, okay, 77 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: so Walt is he's a big dude. He's not like, uh, 78 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: a little little big no. And look he was a 79 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: little baby was born. There was a lot of drama 80 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: in the hospital of like he wasn't eating, and we 81 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: get that's a whole another side note of it. But 82 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: I was very lucky he took to breastfeeding, but it 83 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: was never enough for the sensatiable beast of a baby, 84 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: so you always we were always supplementing with formula, so 85 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't odd. Around two and a half months, 86 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: I started tiptoeing back into the Shawna Land waters that 87 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: I'd missed so dearly, and Walt started doing some very 88 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: part time daycare and over the next two and a 89 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: half months take him to about age five months. I 90 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: thought I was just gonna be able to you know, 91 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: we're work from home. It's a pandemic to I'll we're 92 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: just start you know. I got vaccines while I was breastfeeding, 93 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: and I was like, this is great. All I want 94 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: is for my son to have all the vaccines because 95 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: I thought that that's what the science was communicating and 96 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: this is hugely important. I'm going to do this as 97 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: long as I can, and I can pump from home, 98 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: but then I forgot that the other side of work 99 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: from home and COVID is eighteen meetings back to back, right, 100 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: So I was not pumping as much as I should. 101 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: And essentially, I think a little bit of like back 102 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: to work stress or pumping kind of scheduling issues turned 103 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: into my body starting to wean itself. So this is 104 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: a little different than I think, Like, well, my kids, one, 105 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: this feels about the right time. It was like my 106 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: body was cutting back. I was down to like at 107 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: best and making making like two to four ounces a day, right, 108 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: and I had a little bit of a stockpile, but 109 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: it was and I'm just hanging on for dear life. 110 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: So i am just nothing's coming out. But I'm like pumping, 111 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: I'm doing the tease, I'm taking the pills and doing 112 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: the whole all the lactation help. Right. Oh, this like 113 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: breaks my heart. I'm only interjecting because I have to say, like, 114 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of friends whose bodies just slowly 115 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: stopped either slowly stopped producing or just fully stopped producing. 116 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: And it was so terrifying. All of those feelings we 117 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: talk about feeling like I'm failing. I can't. And I 118 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: think there's so much triggering for motherhood around the ability 119 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: to feed or not feed your baby and how much 120 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: or how little, and you use that to like directly 121 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: associate with your value and how well you're doing. And 122 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: I think in Allison's case, probably when you were back 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: to work, like you felt like, well, I can at 124 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: least give him this, And now that's like falling off. 125 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, I can't even imagine in 126 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: the vaccine again, I'm thinking, I'm I'm thinking I'm shielding 127 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: him from COVID, right, like, Okay, this is this is 128 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: like the mission here, right, So he's got it in 129 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: my head, no science to support it. I'm just like, 130 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: if he gets a little bit every day, it's like 131 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of a vaccine whatever I was telling myself. 132 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: And look, we're in the middle as we record this, 133 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of this like gigantic, terrifying formula 134 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: short of and I can't talk about triggering and paralyzing. 135 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: I read those that news now and I'm like, I 136 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: don't know what I would have done. You know, seven 137 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: months ago, I have goose bumps all over my body. 138 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's awful, and I feel like kind 139 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: of no one cares. But that's a side note. But 140 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: but like people are not giving it its due of 141 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: how insane this is. But that's what that's what happened 142 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: with me, was like my body was just like we've 143 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: reached the end of a journey. I just wasn't ready 144 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: to let go, not even for anything truly, just this 145 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: kind of very utilitarian thing where I thought I was 146 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: still giving him COVID vaccine vietname, which is so weird. 147 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: I know, no it's not, it's really it's really important, 148 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: and it was really I I felt that way for sure. 149 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: I felt that way totally about my breast milk and 150 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: getting vaccinated and feeling like I was doing my part 151 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: in this pandemic to try to protect my unvaccinated baby. 152 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: Like that was definitely a huge, a huge, huge thing. Okay, 153 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: when did you start to realize that you were maybe 154 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: having disproportionate anxiety, that this wasn't um you were feeling 155 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: not your usual self, even though I mean, how could 156 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: you he had a baby five months earlier, but still right, 157 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I'm not I was not my zesta 158 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: usual self. For many reasons, but I think, look for me, 159 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: I've always lived my life with a bit of an 160 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: anxiety and worry. It's in producing. I think there's a 161 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: certain amount of help of it that helps you. Right. 162 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: I feel like Bill Hater. So many people have spoken 163 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: to like how creatively anxiety can be a help, right. Yes, 164 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: it had passed, allowing me to um, to put drive 165 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: in my heart or allow me to anticipate problems. I 166 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: think the day I will never forget was I was 167 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: on our couch in the living room trying to compose 168 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: an email about a note that was not easy to give, 169 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: which in UM you know, working with writers, this is 170 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: something you do all the time. Right that you figure 171 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: it out, you move past it. And my husband just 172 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: looked at me at one point t J and was like, 173 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: you've been writing that email for four hours. And I 174 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: realized I had been sat in the same spot, my 175 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: knee vibrating on my laptop, trying to write the same 176 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: unal for four hours. And I don't think I even 177 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: understood what was happening. And it was him finally being 178 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: like worried about it. I think maybe two and a 179 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: half weeks prior to that, we had done our first 180 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: trip with Walt to Palm Springs with one of my 181 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: best friends and her husband and there two and a 182 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: half year at the time, and I remember thinking it 183 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: was one of the I hadn't like properly planned a 184 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: place to pump um, so I, you know, we're all 185 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: sharing this house and also kind of working from there, 186 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: and I just all of a sudden remember this like 187 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: strange feeling in my stomach of like I don't feel 188 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: like I have much. This would be so much fun, 189 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: and it is, but I have this like sort of 190 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: damocles hanging over my head. I don't know what's wrong. 191 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: Something is freaking me out. And it kind of cast 192 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: Paul on the triple a little because I just I 193 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: remember walk up kind of sunburned for the first time, 194 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: and I maybe lost my mind. I was like, I've 195 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: ruined him and he'll never work out her And it 196 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: was such an outsized reaction and I could see it 197 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: a little bit. But as the next two and a 198 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: half weeks of my three week journey with this intense 199 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: anxiety and depression, now that I understand it, I don't 200 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: think I knew what was really coming and how bad 201 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: it would get because eventually, Yeah, by the time t 202 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: J caught me writing an email for four hours, I 203 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: had slowly stopped eating and slowly stopped sleeping. And it 204 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: was that was kind of like towards the end of 205 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: like finally recognizing like I have to do something really 206 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: drastic right now to like stop this and pull myself back. 207 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: Did you remember, aside from having just very disproportionate reactions 208 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: to like Walt having a really bad sunburn, or you 209 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: not being able to really a function Maybe you're really tired, 210 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: but like you were functioning at work and now all 211 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: of a sudden functioning is starting to be questionable. Do 212 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: you have any examples of like thoughts you were having 213 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: at the time. Oh my god, I'll never forget the 214 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: thought I had, which is I had remembered filling out 215 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: all of my pregnancy disability paperwork for when you file 216 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: with the State of California for your maternity leave and 217 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: all your benefits. You and I literally had this thought, 218 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: which is so wild now, but I was like, I 219 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna have to file for disability. I think 220 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: I can't work ever again. Like it was that extreme 221 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, I guess this is it, right, 222 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: my brain is broken. And I think for you think 223 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: that postpartum depression is going to look a certain way. Fuck, 224 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: everyone I know thinks that they've broken, that they're broken, 225 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: and they're going to be insta like everyone well yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 226 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I was like, what else can I do? 227 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: I suppose, but it and it was such an intense 228 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: but I think that's the strange nature of this. It 229 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: was such an intense but casual thing. The other thing 230 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: that was happening is we were pulling out of Afghanistan. Um, 231 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: the US was leaving Afghanistan, and if you remember, it 232 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: was nothing but just intense footage at the airports of 233 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: like people hating their kids to soldiers being like, get 234 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: my baby at it. And I just remember that was 235 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: the other part is like, no humans should be spending 236 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: this much time scrolling through I don't know, Instagram reels 237 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: not even cool enough for TikTok alice an eagle. But 238 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: it was just like I think I sucked up my 239 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: algorithm for life. For life. My algorithm now is like 240 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: dead dark, get you a new name. We have to 241 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: get you a new Instagram and start over. Oh my god, 242 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: or be like how did I deal? With child asses 243 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: like bump bump bump, bom bomp op where they like 244 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: knock their heads in and I'm like their hands together. 245 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, how did I get on this algorithm? I 246 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: think it's from the period I was waning, because I 247 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: think once the anxiety was rolling, I was just like, yeah, 248 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: I want to and did. There'd be those very traite 249 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: things of like your baby's only small for four years, 250 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: and then a little of that flooding could comes flooding 251 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: in of like the breastfeeding journeys ending for me, and 252 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: that's a big milestone. So I think the weird thing 253 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: about it was it would flip flop between intense and 254 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: same thought. I earned nothing saying that's terrible word, and 255 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: your fingering thought outsized reaction, right, it was like this intense, 256 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: outsized reaction that came to my brain in a very 257 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: casual manner, or it was sobbing for two hours at 258 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: videos of soldiers handing children or of civilians in Afghanistan 259 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: handing babies soldiers, and I'm like, this is not normal, 260 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: this is not usually my vibe um. And you know, 261 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: then there would be on top of that, like the 262 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: panic of like and now I've wasted all this time 263 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: that I need because my work brain is going so 264 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: slowly that I have to now that's now that times 265 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: God that I needed this like extra buffer. So it's 266 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: sort of a compounding effect, is the best way I 267 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: can think of it. My last question for you and 268 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: then I need I want to hear Emily story two 269 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: is I know you were not sleeping at all. Your 270 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: anxiety was reaching so bad that I know you also 271 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: started getting two and you weren't eating. I remember this 272 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: because when we spoke, I was like, funk, we need 273 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: to get to be secure. Word for it spoke when 274 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: I called you sobbing on a FaceTime on your vacation, 275 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: Poor Katie lows Man, just the absolute go to parent moment. Look, 276 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: I have been on that I have been on your 277 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: side of that place as well, where I have reached 278 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: out and needed a FaceTime and some of the darkest 279 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: ship I've ever seen. And I took one look at 280 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: your face, which is that classic for people who are 281 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: listening you, Um, you are not recognizable as the person 282 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: I know. It's so fucked And but the other funked 283 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: up thing is you know it will like being on 284 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: the other side of it as I was when you 285 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: called me. I was like, you will be okay, and 286 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: you will get through it, and you will feel like 287 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: yourself again and you will enjoy like it's all going 288 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: to be okay. But that does not seem possible right now. 289 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: Like that just does not a possibility right now. M 290 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: What did you do with the is three weeks to 291 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: kind of get through it? I mean I leaned on 292 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: t J so much, um and and also, look, I'm 293 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: lucky I work at a really supportive place with bosses 294 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: who have not like they haven't seen this before, right, 295 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: bosses who have had women I think, accustomed to being 296 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: type A professionals dealing with different challenges that come in 297 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: all shapes and sizes, with the idea of new motherhood. Right. 298 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: So it's like Shonda Betsy, all of my colleagues, my team, 299 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: Annie Marko Fwong, everyone was just like always there to 300 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: help and probably could tell something was like a little off. 301 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: I think I wound up realizing I'm masked better than 302 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: I thought I had. Honestly, like, I think what was 303 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: going on side my head was a lot worse than 304 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: what was presenting. So there'd be a little moments where 305 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: i'd let some pressure out where I would just say 306 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: to Betsy be like, look, Betsy, I don't know if 307 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: today's my best day. I think something's going on right 308 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: just so it's like okay, I can get it out 309 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: there for a moment. But I think there was just 310 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: this like power. I remember one meeting with a writer 311 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: of Zoom where I was I had a moment where 312 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm outside of my body, watching 313 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: myself in this meeting. I'm not really here, but I 314 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: think it's going okay with that feeling. I know that feeling. 315 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: I know that feeling. Oh my god, We're like, oh interesting, 316 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: Allison's having a meeting. Oh crazy. I remember having this. 317 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: I remember when I was like, oh, I'm not functioning anymore. 318 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: When I had UM, I had to do a voice 319 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: one line pick up in Vivo and I I play 320 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: I don't even remember the character's name, but I had 321 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: a role that i'd done pre pandemic, pre baby, and 322 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: they needed me to do one pickup line. And I 323 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: sobbed to my friend Jackie saying, I don't think I 324 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: can work for five minutes, Like I'm in big fat trouble. 325 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can pretend for five minutes 326 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: like nothing's going on, just to record one line that 327 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: was like wow, what you got there or some ship 328 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: like that, and I was like, I am never been 329 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: so scared the cuff right now? Yeah, okay, that's that's 330 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: you're the pro and that's why you're like, oh no, 331 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: you get to like a non functioning place is really scary. Yes, 332 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: But the thing that saved me was the after I 333 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: faced time with you and you let me sob I 334 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: knocked myself out with like a bend and drill right 335 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: because I slept, took the baby, the baby shifts that night, 336 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: and I never looked back to breastfeeding. It was over. 337 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: It was done. I barely had anything left. I remembered 338 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: your cabbage leaf advice from an earlier season one Kati's 339 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: crib o g But it was over. I was done, 340 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: And I remember it was the same weekend. I just 341 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: like slept, and then we had a weekend and Walt 342 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: started solids and I was like, goodbye breastfeeding, And by 343 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: Sunday night, I was myself again. And it was the 344 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: most bizarre experience and I feel very lucky that it 345 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: wasn't that it wasn't a longer drawn out experience, but 346 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: that was how instantaneous once I let go. And I 347 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: get why people sometimes don't advocate for this, because everyone's like, no, 348 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: we should breastfeed as long as again it's great, but like, 349 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: I just had to let it go and it was done, 350 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: it was over. I remember when we were face timing 351 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: and you were at your one of your lowest bottoming 352 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: out moments of and I was getting to you. I 353 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: know we had been texting and stuff like that, but 354 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: once you face time to me and you had been 355 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: going through three weeks to four weeks of no sleep, 356 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: anxiety attacks, not eating, stressing beyond all belief like, and 357 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: I remember just being like in my head, oh god, 358 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: I hope she just stops like it's not because at 359 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: some point what I always found interesting too. And then Emily, 360 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: I have to your story. But I always thought it 361 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: was really interesting when someone was like, whenever you decide 362 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: or your body decides that it's time, and and hopefully 363 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: you don't have this kind of reaction, you get this 364 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: opportunity where you have to find other ways to connect 365 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: to your child. Um, because I personally realized that I 366 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: spent so much time breastfeeding and sort of taking for 367 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: granted like that's my time with the baby, but I'm 368 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: really looking at my phone. Are you looking at Instagram 369 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: reels or like answering emails and ship like that, And 370 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm not, And I'm just saying like, well, this is 371 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: my time with the baby, but like, is it really 372 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: And then I remember when I weaned. I'll be like, oh, 373 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: it's really important that I have other ways to calm him, 374 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: because I also used breastfeeding as like my way to like, 375 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, make him feel comfort, make him feel this, 376 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: make it feel that, and so it's just like an 377 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: interesting thing for anyone listening, like it's I try to 378 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: reframe it in my mind as like the opportunity to 379 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: learn how to comfort and mother in like other ways. Anyway, 380 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: I will remember that FaceTime, and I honestly let it 381 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: be known, said I was so honored to be on 382 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: the other side of that call, and I I truly was. 383 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: I was so so so honored to be on the 384 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: other side of that call. And I really in my 385 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: heart was like, she needs sleep. Take whatever. Fucking Bena 386 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: Jules an X ambience. If you got on hand, you're 387 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: not taking care of the baby this weekend. Eat anything 388 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: and everything, please God, but you have to sleep. Emily 389 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: has to UM. Beautiful girls and very different. They're very different. 390 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that now. UM. And what's crazy about 391 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: me and Emily's journey is that we were pregnant with 392 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: both of our kids at the same time. It's just 393 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: sucking awesome. So I want to talk to you about 394 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: your experience with UM ev right now, because I know 395 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: you're in the midst of it with Audrey. I'm curious 396 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: how it's going because I'm still happening. But tell me 397 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: about your breastfeeding journey with Evie and when you knew, 398 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: similarly how we started with Alison, how you knew it 399 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: was time to wean for you. I had a very 400 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: interesting relationship breastfeeding UM. I was incredibly lucky. I had 401 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: more milk than I could possibly have used. And and 402 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: one of the interesting things that happened early on with 403 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: breastfeeding was I actually had my milk ducks and my 404 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: armpits all filled up, and I was I had like, 405 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, dinosaur eggs sized like glands. Emily's face and 406 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: for everyone listening, I have love. I have given Emily 407 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: Rogers milk out to Like if we can say this, 408 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: I've given Emily Rodgers milk out to friends. That's how 409 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: much she has. Anyone who I ever get a text 410 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: from that's like I'm running low. I don't have or 411 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: is surrogate or da da da da. I'm like, just 412 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: call Emily. Just call Emily. She's feeding all of the 413 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: Los Angeles area. Okay, but yeah, And so I had 414 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: so much milk, But part of that was just my 415 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: relationship with it was always very different, interesting because it 416 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: had such an effect on my body. And I really 417 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: wish that I had known about postpartum from weaning, because 418 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: I was so clearly a candidate for it given how 419 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: much milk I had. I was also an endometrios as patient. 420 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: I mean I am an Endometrios's patient, and so my 421 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: hormone levels have always been insane. My goal for breastfeeding 422 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: Evy was I wanted to get to a year. That 423 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: was that was what I was trying to go for. 424 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: I obviously had the milk to do it. It wasn't 425 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: hard to get to a year. And then once I 426 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: got to a year, I said, you know what, I'm done, 427 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: And I just didn't think about it, and I started 428 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: dropping a feed a week because that's what some people 429 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: tell you to do. You just go drop a feed 430 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: a week. Now that I know about postpartum weaning, I 431 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: should have taken a lot longer to do it. I 432 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: should have let my body adjust over time to do it. 433 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: And that was just what I should have done. I 434 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: mean not to say that anybody else should have done that, 435 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: but I didn't. And at the same time, there were 436 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: all these things going on in our lives. Um My 437 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: husband had just quit his corporate job to go out 438 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: on his own, and Evie was I was. I didn't 439 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: know this at the time, but being with her as 440 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: a mother started feeling like a chore. I remember there 441 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: was one day that she had somehow there's like a 442 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: two part tuberculosis tests that they give kids at various stages, 443 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: and she had somehow failed the first skin test, and 444 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: I knew we hadn't done any traveling. We she did 445 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: not have tuberculosis. But they said, we want to give 446 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: her the blood test for tuberculosis. And I have this, 447 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, I have a one year old and they're 448 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: telling me I need to do a blood draw and 449 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: they were going to send me to a quest lab, 450 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: like just some random quest lab. And I said, absolutely not, 451 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: I will go to the children's hospital and see no 452 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: lab where they you know, dropped. And I pitched a 453 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: fit in my pediatrician's office. And that afternoon, somehow, my well, 454 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: after I took my daughter to get her blood draw, crying, crying, crying, 455 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: you know, this one year old. And I'm sitting in 456 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: my car after and I'm crying, and I don't remember why. 457 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: I somehow got a call from my doctor, my regular 458 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: doctor that day. She must have been following up with 459 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: the test or something. And I just burst into tears 460 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: on the phone, you know, in the car with Evie 461 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: crying in the backseat, and and and I was telling 462 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: her all of the stuff that was going on, and 463 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: she said, you know what, honey, I think you've got 464 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: to crush it. And I'm really really lucky that I 465 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: had a primary care physician who could just point that 466 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: out to me so easily and with such care and such, 467 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, just really understood who I was, what I 468 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: what I should have been like, and how I should 469 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: have handled all of these things. My husband likes to say, 470 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: I'm the best in a crisis, and so when all 471 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: of these things were happening to us and I wasn't 472 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: handling it well. I mean, my doctor knew that, and 473 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: she just said, you know what, like something's wrong, it's 474 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: not crazy insane, like I wasn't having crippling anxiety. I 475 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: wasn't having any of those things. It was so subtle, 476 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: but they figured it out. And my doctor was just 477 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: just said, I'm going to put you on a low 478 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: dose of Lexa pro. Let's see how it goes. And 479 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: I went on it. And a few weeks later, um 480 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: a dear friend of a mutual friend of ours, Mary O'Malley, 481 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: who's been on your podcast. I told Mary what was 482 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: going on in my life, and she said, I think 483 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: it's great that your doctor puts you on the US, 484 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: but let's get you some professional women's health like psychiatry. 485 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: And she put me in touch with her psychiatrist and 486 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: he I've been in treatment with him ever since. I've 487 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: never stopped. And he, I mean, he he changed my life. 488 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: He really did. And like I said, I didn't have 489 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: any of that crippling stuff, but you know, he he 490 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: got me on the right dosage afterwards, we you know, 491 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: and and he just he just really helped me figure 492 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: it out. And then it was the hindsight part of it, 493 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's so frustrating that it took me getting 494 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: on medication to realize what was going on with me. 495 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: But I was looking back on things and thinking, oh 496 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: my gosh, I missed out on having fun with my 497 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: daughter for a while. I mean it was I don't 498 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,239 Speaker 1: think I ever in my head thought of her as 499 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: a chore. But I realized after I came out of 500 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: that fog or whatever it was, that I I could 501 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: see that that's how I had been feeling. And then 502 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: I just started experiencing joy again being a mom. Mm hmm. 503 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: Did you have any postpartum depression right after the birth 504 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: or postpartum anxiety? Did you have that? See, that's the 505 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: fucking crazy ship. It's like we hopefully we're doing our 506 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: due diligence of like preparing people to look at it 507 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: in that first six week window, you know, but you're see, 508 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: I know people who they've gotten postpartum depression around the 509 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: time they've weaned, and that can be six months later 510 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: in Emily's cases, a year later. And you didn't have 511 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: it at all when you brought Evie home. From the hospital. Yeah, 512 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: And interestingly, I had been so prepared to have postpartum 513 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: depression from the birth, and we had you know, we 514 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: had people lined up to talk to you. I had 515 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: taken numbers from people. My Husben was, you know, kind 516 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: of told this is the things you need to look 517 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: out for. And I was cognizant of all that because 518 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: of my end though, and recognizing that I had all 519 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: of these hormonal things but never applied it to weaning. 520 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: And also I had somewhat of a traumatic birth. I 521 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: I broke my tailbone um in delivery. And so when 522 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: I had gone through all of that without experiencing postpartum depression, 523 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: in part because my husband, like he, like I said, 524 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: he says, I'm really good in a crisis, and so 525 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: I got when I got through all of that and 526 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: after having you know, broken my tailbone and breastfed through 527 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: it and all of that, and I was fine. I 528 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: it did not occur to me at all that I 529 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: could possibly have postpartum at any point. It's so funny 530 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: you say that, because honestly, like that is I think 531 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: that is the thing that stuck up on me too, 532 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: is that you have all of the meetings and all 533 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: of the pamphlets. And I did have a therapist through 534 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: my winning experience. I should have shouted that out too. 535 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah. I mean I wasn't in therapy. It 536 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: wasn't any of that. But never occurred to me that 537 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: it could happen with weaning, especially given the experience that 538 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: I had had. You know, it was just if I 539 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: was going to have depression, I was going to have 540 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: it after breaking my tailbone having a baby. Literally like 541 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: the baby, that can happen. But yeah, we should do 542 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: a whole another thing. They don't talk about another thing. 543 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: My god. I mean, I just think and what's crazy 544 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: for me? Um. In my personal experience weaning Albe, I 545 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: had the similar thing to Emily. I mean, I felt, 546 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 1: it's so interesting having a second baby because I just 547 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: I've I'm doing it so differently this time around, just 548 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: mothering in genter in general, where I'm having this conversation 549 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: with you. And when I was breastfeeding Albey, I was 550 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: so stressed all the time about how much, how little, 551 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: how many bottles. I can remember when he was coming 552 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: up on a year, I was out of my stock. 553 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: I was on Broadway. I was pumping every intermission I 554 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: was exhausted, um, my supply was heavily diminishing. Um, and 555 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: I was confused thinking I had to get him to 556 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: a certain point before I made him to cow's milk 557 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: and he had to have bottles. And it was so 558 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: fucking stressful and I was so miserable and measuring everything. 559 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: And I just say that to mean that now that 560 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing this with Vera, I I never pump, I 561 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: never measure, I never care, I never know when I'm 562 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: going to breastfeeder. It's very like sort of like if 563 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm at work, she doesn't get it. If I'm home, 564 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: she gets it. Like I have no idea what I'm making, 565 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: Like everything is just like whatever. And it's been really 566 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: a much more pleasurable experience. UM. I also think it's 567 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: lined up that I've had acting jobs this year that 568 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: are less grueling schedule, So I think that's also a huge, 569 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: huge part of this. Like if you're a working mom 570 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: and you're on a pump schedule, I mean I did 571 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: that with Albe and that's a crazy, crazy ride. Um. 572 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: But I had to wean, albeit at around a week 573 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: before a year because I when I was doing waitress 574 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: on Broadway, I got MERSA, which is a deadly staff infection, 575 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: and they called me and they said, I'm so sorry, 576 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: but we're gonna have to try a million different kind 577 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: of antibiotics so that this doesn't spread. And you just 578 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: had your last breastfeed, and I ugly cried and had 579 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: the opposite experience of you all, which was I ugly 580 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: cried and then felt such relief and finally felt like myself, 581 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: like I was done. I looked in the mirror two 582 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: weeks later and wait had fallen off for me that 583 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: just because my boobs were like flat, dehydrated socks now. 584 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: And I just had a different experience, which is funny 585 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: because I had postpartum depression after birth. All of this 586 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: to say, you don't know what you're gonna get, Listeners, 587 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: you don't know what you're gonna get. So it's Katie's 588 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: crib point to have all these different guests on to 589 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: make you aware and not make you scared, but just 590 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: make you aware that if either of these things should happen, 591 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: and all of the options in between, you are not alone, 592 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: and there are things that you can do to get 593 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: help and to feel better. There are some things you 594 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: can do to help minimize symptoms of depression around weaning, 595 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: which is weaning gradually Emily Rodgers, which takes me to 596 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: what are you doing for the Audrey situation? It's interesting, 597 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, like best laid plans and all of that. Um. 598 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: I had talked to Dr Sparago, my psychiatrist. I had 599 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: talked to my therapist. I had talked to friends, I 600 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: talked to anybody that I could talk to about what 601 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: was your weaning plan? Like how did you do it? 602 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: And so? And I had come up with this elaborate, 603 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: you know, scheme where I was going to wean one 604 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: feed per month and that was it. And it's such 605 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: a lawyer like you do anything, like like I just 606 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: think you're so meticulous in all of this. I love it. Okay, 607 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: so you had this totally elaborate, detailed plan. And then 608 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: Audrey laughed at me, and so did Evie in fact, 609 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: because it was a combination of both of them. I 610 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: was still pumping at night right before I went to bed. 611 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: I dropped that first. That was easy. A few weeks later, 612 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'm gonna drop. I'm gonna drop a feed. 613 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: And in my head I had a plan that I 614 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: was going to drop her afternoon feed first, and I 615 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: don't remember at the time, I didn't why I had 616 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: insisted on it being the afternoon feed, because one morning 617 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: Audrey chopped down, like in her late morning feed, teeth 618 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: and all, just like took a bite and I was like, nope, 619 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: eleven am is done and we're dropping it today and 620 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: it's done. So then I dropped it. And then I 621 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: realized a week later why I hadn't why I had 622 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: wanted to drop the three o'clock feed first, because I 623 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: was taking my daughter to those ten day intensive swim 624 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: classes every single day at three thirty, and so I couldn't, 625 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: like I couldn't just nurse her. I had nanny's line, 626 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, I had childcare lined up for when I 627 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: was taking her to swim class. There was going to 628 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: be a rush of me picking her up from school 629 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: and like so the whole thing. I ended up dropping 630 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: two feeds in two weeks. I was like, oh my god, 631 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: this is exactly the opposite plan. So all right, so 632 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: everything you've planned is not what's happening. Welcome shot. Yeah, 633 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: and so how do you feel? How do you feel? 634 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you must feel okay, because you're on you 635 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: have the support and you're on medication, right, I have 636 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: the support. I'm on medication. I mean. The best thing 637 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: that happened to me was when my husband and Dr. 638 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: Sparago and I actually had an appointment together before while 639 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: we were deciding, you know, when to have our second baby. 640 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: And this was maybe five months before the pandemic hit, 641 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: and we were talking about should I go off the 642 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: antidepressants before I get pregnant again, YadA, YadA, YadA, and 643 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: we decided, and I made the decision. I was like, 644 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: you know what, I still need to be a good 645 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: mother to my older daughter, So I can't go into 646 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: postpartum depression again because I won't be able to mother properly. 647 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: And so and let's face it, your older one takes 648 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: so much more patience and the language and all of that. 649 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: That's so much more important that you need to kind 650 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: of be on for. And so I stayed on anti 651 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: depressants the entire time. And thank god, because then months 652 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: later we're in a fucking global pandemic and and everybody 653 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: went on them. Yeah, exactly, and so um, luckily I 654 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: actually upped my medication. UM after I gave birth to Audrey. 655 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: Um things just weren't feeling totally right. Everything was stressful 656 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: COVID I mean, you know, trying to protect your babies. 657 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: I mean, and Katie and I both went through very 658 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: stressful times of feeling like we couldn't protect our babies 659 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: from COVID, and obviously Alison you went through the same thing, 660 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: like the little bit of vaccine that I can get, Like, 661 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: so we were all in that frame of mind. Anyone 662 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: who's mothering, especially under five year olds during this pandemic, 663 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: or and we're pregnant during this pandemic. It it was 664 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: so intense. It was so scary, terrifying, and I was 665 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: the full coming in being like perfect timing. Wow, March 666 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: so much sorted getting my vaccines. Like I was just 667 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: mad that I missed being able to get it as 668 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: a pregnant lady. And pregnant lady, what do I say, 669 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,959 Speaker 1: just as a lady. That's I thought I was coming 670 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: in And then it was like the oh Macron Christmas. 671 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: Then we all got COVID a month ago, just rolling 672 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: through the household. But it is well, I think I 673 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: can't even imagine the early days. Honestly, oh my god, 674 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: it was. I was pregnant the week before shutdown. I 675 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: was never forgot. I was like, we're, oh, yeah, it 676 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: was so awful. Um, Emily, you're feeling okay right now 677 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: even though your plan is not the plan. Yeah, I'm 678 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: feeling okay right now. I actually just dropped another feed, 679 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: so I'm down to one a day now, and um, 680 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm feeling good. I mean, I'm I'm in treatment. I 681 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: talked to my psychiatry regularly, and there's so much of 682 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,439 Speaker 1: motherhood that is letting go of your own control. And 683 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: I've learned that for the last several years. You think 684 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: I would remember when I'm making an elaborate plan for weaning, 685 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: that it's not going to go according to plan, and 686 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: that Audrey has her own ideas and she's basically weaned herself. 687 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 1: And in many ways, you know, she stopped, she stopped 688 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: um feeding every single feed. She The only one that 689 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: she's really attached to was the morning feed, and so 690 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: that's the one I've kept. And we'll see how much 691 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: further I go with that. Can I ask a queasy question, 692 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of a woo uh do what ressault? 693 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: When the weaning happened? Did either of you ever just 694 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: have this instinctual thing of just like I don't know, 695 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: he seems upset, he's teething. It's a couple of months 696 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 1: since weaning. Should I throw this baby on the boob? 697 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: Did that ever? Strip? Because I almost did it a 698 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: few times where I was like, I don't know what 699 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: would happen. I didn't want to, like unleash the beast again, 700 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: but I was like, there would be these moments I'd 701 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: almost forget I wasn't doing it no matter how. Even 702 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: still there's moments where I'm like, and I sometimes forget 703 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: how it feels. Yeah, it's weird, Like I'll I remember 704 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: when I weaned out the like I was like, no, 705 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: we're not doing that right now, or like you don't, 706 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: like you said unleash the beast, like you don't want 707 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: to like open up that can of worms again and 708 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: confuse them like that, it might still be a possibility. 709 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: If it's not a possibility, but I do think, Alison, 710 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: I'm curious if I'm pretty sure that if a baby 711 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: started nursing on you regularly, you would start producing milk again? 712 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: Is that true? Am I You're out? I don't even know. 713 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: I mean, let's let's throw to our panel of down. 714 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: Does it only don't think so. And I can't believe 715 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm bringing this up, but I read an article the 716 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: other day that when you stop breastfeeding, your boob basically 717 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: eats it self, so all of the stuff that your 718 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: breasts make in order to breastfeed, all that stuff is 719 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: like your boob eats it all up so that it's 720 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: no longer and that's why it goes to looking like 721 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: a dehydrated sock. And anyone, I don't know what that means. 722 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: It just works for me. But like I anyone I 723 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,760 Speaker 1: know who had big boobs and hated them their whole life, 724 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: like loved their chest after they weaned because it was 725 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: just like they've never been like that kind of flat before. Um. Okay, 726 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: one of the additional things you've learned through post weening 727 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 1: depression that no one told you about that you wish 728 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: you had known all of it. I honestly, I just 729 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: like truly have never heard of it. I don't I 730 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: know this, And I read a lot of books, I've 731 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: crept a lot. I had a top o b G 732 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: y n um apparently, by the way, I don't know 733 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: if you all knew this, but and I was panicking 734 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: and didn't know if just stopping would stop it. When 735 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: I called and she didn't get back to me about it, 736 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: she said, oh, yeah, I already told the guy that 737 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: like the Kenemine therapy clinic that you'd be calling. And 738 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,959 Speaker 1: I had no idea that kenemine therapy is now one 739 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: of the treatments for postpartum I was like, special k man. 740 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: I just rolled up. You know, yeah, kenemine would be 741 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: special k um. People are doing small, small doses of 742 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: that actually for postpartum depression. And they're also doing micro 743 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: dosing mushrooms. Guys. People are just getting into it. People, 744 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: let's open up our brains. But yeah, I really couldn't 745 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: believe no one it's anything. And I have an amazing 746 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: WhatsApp group that is shout out Montown. It's just like 747 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: sixty women in the business who've had kids over the 748 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: last year and sharing very openly with each other. And 749 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: I remember when it was a smaller group. I did 750 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: just put it out there. Finally, guys, I don't know 751 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: what I just lived through. And all of them said 752 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: that they'd only seen one Cosmo article. And that article actually, 753 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: and I can't remember the name of it now, but 754 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: it was like, why did no one tell me this 755 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: would happen from like five years ago? And um it 756 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: was it described perfectly the moment I had in palm 757 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: Springs of just like sitting there and suddenly this deep 758 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: sadness just opening up over you. But it's not. No 759 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: one talks about it. Emily, I don't know if you 760 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: had heard of it. I just didn't know what was happening. 761 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: I literally didn't know it existed. And I want this 762 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: is the conspiracy theorist to me, I'm like, do they 763 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: not tell us because they want to us breastfeed? And 764 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: they're so, But I'm like, there's a little of that, 765 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: right there is a little bit of like, you know, 766 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: you hope for the best and know that if there's 767 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: a problem, of course, and we'll come talk to you 768 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: about it. But I almost would have It's not like 769 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: it would have changed my drive to breastfeed. Had I 770 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: known about this, I just would have been like, got it. 771 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: I know now to look for the signals of that. 772 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you could get postpartum depression from having a baby, 773 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: and it doesn't stop having a baby, you know, or 774 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't really equally equate, but how but 775 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: I think. I think I personally still would have been like, 776 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: we're going for it. At least when it hits, i'll 777 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,359 Speaker 1: know what it is. I can dive into action, will 778 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: get that to do list going. But it was best 779 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: to do find out why I think I need disability, 780 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,800 Speaker 1: go on disability. At this moment, you're the absolute fucking 781 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: bes I'm obsessed with you. Okay, Emily, what about you? 782 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 1: What are some additional things you learned through post meaning 783 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: depression that no one told you about that you wish 784 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: you'd known. Actually, when I found out that I was 785 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 1: doing this podcast, I asked my psychiatrist. I said, if 786 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: you could tell women, Yeah, if you could tell women 787 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: about postpartum and weaning, like, what would you say? And 788 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,439 Speaker 1: he said, I want women to understand that even though 789 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: we think that breastfeeding is controlled by the breast, it's 790 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: actually controlled by the brain. It's all neurotransmitters and hormones. 791 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: Are you know, I'm going to botch them medicine, But 792 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: it's the neurotransmitters in your brain that control whether or 793 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: not you breastfeed. It's up to your brain. And so 794 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: I think when you think of breastfeeding as a mental 795 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: function rather than a physical function. It really opens your 796 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: mind to the idea that it will. Of course, you 797 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: can get depression from it. I mean, you're you're basically 798 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:30,280 Speaker 1: stopping these neurotransmitters from producing prolactin and you know, oxytocin 799 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,879 Speaker 1: and all of these things that give us the euphoria 800 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,399 Speaker 1: of breastfeeding. It's also the waves, which is something that's 801 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: really hard for some women to shake. It's like when 802 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: you have a letdown producing milk and you get serotonin 803 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: flooding your brain because you love your baby, which is 804 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: why milk is happening. Then it dries out and then 805 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 1: it that's all gone. It's like very Some women like 806 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: literally get headaches every time they get a let down. 807 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: Thank you to doctor, your doctor for telling us that bit. 808 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: I'm like, doctors, Okay, if a mom is suspecting she 809 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: has post weeding depression, what questions can she ask herself 810 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: to confirm? For me, it's always about functioning. Have you 811 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: lost function? Like I'm always like, but I but you 812 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: know what in Emily's case, it's different than that. For me, 813 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,320 Speaker 1: it was like I couldn't even return a text. Allison 814 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: took four hours to write an email. She could have 815 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: written for Emily. It was that, which I also think 816 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: is a great tell you've lost the joy in doing 817 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 1: these things, like there's just a real And I had 818 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: that too, which was just I no longer felt joyous 819 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: taking care of my children at all. I mean I 820 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 1: not everybody has a partner when they have a baby, 821 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: but I did, and my husband and I I found 822 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 1: that the second time around, at least, when I had Audrey, 823 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: I checked in with him a lot. I was like, 824 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,479 Speaker 1: how do you think I'm doing? And I think that 825 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: that question is just so important because with me, at least, 826 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: it was so such a gradual process to getting to 827 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: where I was depressed that if he weren't paying attention, 828 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: I don't think he would have even really noticed, because 829 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: it's just you get lost in your own I mean, 830 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: he was super busy. I was super busy. We had 831 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: the kid, you know. But when I made a point 832 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: of asking him after I had the baby, probably like 833 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: once every two weeks, I just asked him, I said, 834 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: how am I doing? How do you think I'm doing? 835 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: Especially since I think a lot of times after you 836 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: have a baby, or when you're whatever it is that's 837 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: going on, I think a lot of husbands don't want 838 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: to say to their wives like you're you're not being 839 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 1: normal or whatever it is like that, but they don't 840 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: want to call attention to the fact because they don't 841 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: want to kiss you off and there's all of the 842 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 1: stuff going on, and they want to be understanding and 843 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: sort of like give you more leeway to have the 844 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: emotional experience that you're having. But it's it's a it's 845 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: a difficult balance to try and figure out. And the 846 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 1: best person who knows you, like, the person who knows 847 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,080 Speaker 1: you best is your is your partner. And he was 848 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: able to say to me, you know at certain times 849 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 1: he's like no, I at least after all he was like, 850 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,399 Speaker 1: I think something's going on. I think you should talk 851 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: to your doctor. I think you should tell him these things. 852 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 1: Can I jump on the call with you with your doctor? 853 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: Can we all talk about it together? Um, which I 854 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: was really lucky, Like my Jamie has been on calls 855 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: with me and my my psychiatrist. He's the ship. You 856 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: both have such wonderful partners. Oh my god, that's amen 857 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 1: for that. I mean truly again, like exactly, like if 858 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: I try to think about the thing about questions, you 859 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: can ask yourself. Here's one of you. Would ask me, Katie, 860 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: what coping mechanisms did you use? And I was like, none, 861 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: it was terrible. I stop dating it. I did for 862 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 1: a while still try to go back to things that 863 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: used to work. So meditation was a huge one. Um. 864 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: I would get nervous about sending you know, cut notes 865 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and before I would say down 866 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: to do it, I would go meditate and I would 867 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,880 Speaker 1: just it didn't work. Like it was not unlocking any calm. 868 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: I was vibrating and thinking through the whole. It wasn't 869 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 1: just like come back to your practice, cycle back, No, 870 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 1: it was it was not working. And going on walks 871 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: like t J would force me to leave the house 872 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: sometime around five pm every day. That used to be 873 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: so calming to me in a early pandemic days and 874 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: did nothing for me. I would come back just as so. 875 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: I think that's a good test, is like, are those 876 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: things that usually calm me down, bring you back focus 877 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,760 Speaker 1: you do they still work? And if if they're not working, 878 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: there might be something more aggressive happening even if you 879 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,279 Speaker 1: do them inconsistently. That's that's the other thing that really 880 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,839 Speaker 1: helped me understand something goes wrong. I had the same thing. 881 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,239 Speaker 1: I remember hanging onto this like meditation app on my 882 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: phone and like trying to play it to like go 883 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,319 Speaker 1: to sleep and just being like I am spinning the 884 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,160 Speaker 1: funk out. I cannot do this. And then I remember 885 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: going on Fai only walks for at sunset at five 886 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:07,240 Speaker 1: o'clock and just being so sad and like so feeling 887 00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: out of body, feeling like I was watching myself like, oh, 888 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: you should be enjoying this, like you're going on a 889 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 1: walk with your baby strap to you and your toddler 890 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: and your husband, and I'm a shell, like a shell, 891 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 1: like I I why I'm not in the experience like 892 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: at all. It reminds me of something that I heard 893 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 1: in my childbirth class about you know, whether or not 894 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 1: you should get an epidural. Tally A Moore taught my 895 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,440 Speaker 1: childbirth class, and she had said, you know, it's supposed 896 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,319 Speaker 1: to be painful, but you're not supposed to suffer. And 897 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: I think that that's like a very good way of 898 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: the parton too. It's supposed like just supposed to be hard, 899 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: but you're not supposed to suffer, and it's not supposed 900 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: to be so hard that it feels debilitating, or that 901 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: it affects the way that you go about your life, 902 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: or you have no joyless with your child. No, but 903 00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: suffering is a different suffering. Suffering is different things. Analogy, 904 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,000 Speaker 1: but it's no, hard is different than suffering. Hard can 905 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: be okay, you know, but suffering is a different thing. Um. 906 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 1: What would you recommend to women who are going through 907 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:19,600 Speaker 1: or who suspect they have post weaning depression. One of 908 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,799 Speaker 1: the best things I could recommend to is, like, I 909 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: didn't have a general practitioner before I gave birth. It 910 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,320 Speaker 1: was just all on my OB G A N. She 911 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,760 Speaker 1: was my everything, her and her and my amazing rheumatologist 912 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: for with my cool young people arthritists that I have 913 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,319 Speaker 1: middle aged people now. Um, but I wish I'd had 914 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 1: a GP in place before I gave birth because I 915 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: didn't have a psychiatrist right so I didn't. I just 916 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: had my my talk therapist and my O B G N. 917 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: And I wish i'd had somebody I could have gone 918 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,839 Speaker 1: to in this very kind of like distinct way from 919 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,200 Speaker 1: both of those experiences to do an assessment at the 920 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,960 Speaker 1: early stages of it, just to be like, my, okay, 921 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 1: what's happening and they could have then like guided the 922 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,839 Speaker 1: rest of that experience, because I think I had some 923 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,080 Speaker 1: like I just don't I think that would have allowed 924 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,000 Speaker 1: me the freedom to maybe even I know this sounds weird, 925 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,800 Speaker 1: say things I wouldn't have maybe said to my b G, 926 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 1: I N and my therapist about physically like what was happening, 927 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,720 Speaker 1: because I think I was a little nervous to admit 928 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't sleeping and eating and I was also like 929 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,240 Speaker 1: doing a high octane job and caring for a baby, 930 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,600 Speaker 1: and I feel like just a Mr g P. I 931 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: just signed up with miss GPS. I don't have a 932 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 1: GP either, Like what the hell? And this is not 933 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 1: as helpful for new moms, but like, as you're getting ready, 934 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,800 Speaker 1: have a have a person who's just like this separate entity, 935 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,960 Speaker 1: I think, and then can and they can be like, hey, 936 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 1: I want you to see a psychiatrist right but in 937 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,960 Speaker 1: this and kind of have a speed and an ease 938 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 1: of care with that person. Because that was one of 939 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,640 Speaker 1: the things when somebody casually mentioned it to me in 940 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,120 Speaker 1: the midst of the weaning of like we'll get a 941 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,440 Speaker 1: GP and they can like see you and then they 942 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 1: can get you a prescription, and I was like, a 943 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,400 Speaker 1: g you want me to find a GP in Los 944 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:06,279 Speaker 1: Angeles and I just seem like they've asked me to 945 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,080 Speaker 1: go to the moon. I was like, are you kidding there? 946 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,080 Speaker 1: So that was the one thing I really wish someone 947 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,960 Speaker 1: had told me at a time. That's great. And your 948 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: GP is the one who told you Emily right, Yeah, 949 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:24,879 Speaker 1: she's the one who fish interesting. Interesting. And what would 950 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:30,040 Speaker 1: you say to that question? I would say, talk to 951 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,880 Speaker 1: the people in your community. Talk to them, Talk to 952 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,879 Speaker 1: your mom, friends, talk to or if you know you're 953 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: the first person of your friends to have kids, go 954 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 1: find you know, your sister's cousins, mother's neighbor's daughter, you 955 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,440 Speaker 1: know Whoever, because the moment I started talking to people 956 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: about my postpartum depression, you discover that everybody you know 957 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,560 Speaker 1: as postpartum depression or depression of some sort. Everybody's medicated, 958 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: everybody's got it off, like seriously, like everybody has a talk. 959 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, you'll find referrals within your community, people that 960 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: you trust, and just give them a call and talk 961 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 1: to them. I love it. And last question that we 962 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:21,239 Speaker 1: always ask parenthood is parenthood should be a choice. Right 963 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: up now, perfectly said, uh, perfectly said, parent parenthood is extremes. 964 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: I think it's the best way I can think about it. 965 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,920 Speaker 1: Extreme lows and eyes at least in this all my 966 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,719 Speaker 1: limited experience of fourteen months of it. But hats not 967 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 1: limited because you were you were pregnant for a year 968 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,480 Speaker 1: before that, and you were trying for longer before that. 969 00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean, this has been a fucking journey so and 970 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 1: it's been extreme, and it's it's not a bad thing 971 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:00,600 Speaker 1: that it's extreme. It's a it is like none if 972 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:06,600 Speaker 1: there's power, and knowing it's extremes. Yeah, I'm so appreciative 973 00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: of you both coming on to Katie's crib and sharing 974 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,520 Speaker 1: your personal experiences. I think it will be so helpful. 975 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,880 Speaker 1: I think hopefully we can add to the great canon 976 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:24,480 Speaker 1: of the Cosmopolitan article depression around Me, around weaning to 977 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:30,439 Speaker 1: hopefully make women more aware information is power and let 978 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: them know that they're not alone and that this is 979 00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:38,240 Speaker 1: fucking common. I freaking love you both. I love your children, 980 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:44,840 Speaker 1: I love your partners, I love your faces, everything about 981 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,040 Speaker 1: you now everyone knows why I FaceTime do you crying now? No, 982 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,759 Speaker 1: right back at you, And so so endlessly grateful to 983 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,640 Speaker 1: be invited to be a part of this conversation and 984 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,200 Speaker 1: I do hope it, I do help, it helps people. 985 00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,160 Speaker 1: Um and Emily helped me hearing your story, which could 986 00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,480 Speaker 1: not have been more different from my own but still 987 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: loves me feel connected. Yeah, definitely, thank you so much. 988 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:14,759 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. 989 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,360 Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. 990 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: Let me know. You can always find me at Katie's 991 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 1: Crib at Shonda land dot com. Katie's Crib is a 992 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. 993 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,359 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart 994 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 995 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:36,720 Speaker 1: favorite shows.